Richard Griffiths

An agent, a publisher, a label majordomo and now a manager, not only has Richard Griffiths worn all the hats, he's a seer when it comes to careers. Richard and his partner Harry Magee and their firm Modest! Management were honored with the 2019 Music Industry Trusts Award on November 4th in London. Modest! has steered the careers of One Direction, the Spice Girls, 5 Seconds of Summer, Olly Murs, Niall Horan,

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bottom Left Sets podcasting.
My guest today is Richard Griffiths. He and his partner
Harry McGee make up Modest Management, and they are receiving
the Music Industry Award. Richard, what is that a war?
But it's a great honor that is persperoed once a

(00:29):
year from within the industry to artists. Paul McConney got it.
Roger Roger Adultery got it, John Barry, the great composer
got it. Uh, Rob string On, Lucien Grange. Okay, you
know in today's world, are you impressed that you got it?

(00:50):
Does it mean something to you? Um, it's very flattering.
I think it's Uh in a way, I feel it's
an acknowledgement that management is now somebody something that needs
more respect than maybe it has been given in the
past by the industry. Because we are the first managers

(01:12):
ever to receive the award. Um so i I although
it's been given to Harry and me, um, as far
as we're concerned, we're collecting it on behalf of managers. Okay, Now,
you used to be an executive. What's the difference between

(01:32):
working at the label or in publishing and being on
the management side. As a manager, we are involved in
every aspect of the artist's career um. And that means
obviously in helping them get a record deal, getting the

(01:54):
right air and our person helping to make sure the
right record is being made, then making sure it's being
marketed properly, uh, and then getting the right agent to
book the right tours and the right gigs for them
to take their music out live. Um, the right publicists,

(02:15):
the right publisher. So we as managers are in the
epicenter of everything that goes on with an artist. Whereas
a record company guy may only be involved in a
and R ng the record, he may only be involved
in a and R ing in in marketing that record,

(02:37):
maybe only in a certain territory. Um. And the manager
is the one person who is involved in in every aspect,
including um, the health and welfare of the artist, which
is obviously an incredibly important part of our job. Now

(03:00):
we can really put the demarcation his napster the turn
of the century. Now what a manager used to be,
in what a label used to be have flipped right? Yes,
well in in uh, you know, I was lucky to
be you know, running a major American record label in

(03:21):
the glorious nineties where you know, quite frankly, if you farted,
you went gold, you know. Um, And so all the
all the money and all the influence really did come
from the record companies. There were still great managers around,
you know. I mean I had to deal with Sharon
Osborne on a regular basis, who I love dearly and

(03:47):
who I learned an incredible amount from, uh, Roger Davis
who does pink Um and many other great artists. Bill Kurbishly,
you know, behind the who I mean when I when
I when I said Virgin and did a couple of
records with Roger Adultery. Um, I came across Bill Kurbishly

(04:08):
and I and I learned there was definitely a different
way of doing things. Well, give me an example. Um.
It was just the great thing I found working with
those managers was that they believed that they knew better
of what was the right thing for their artists, and

(04:29):
I believed in them sufficiently to go along with that. Um,
there were managers that I would deal with whom I
didn't think were necessarily on top of it, and so
we would we would take much more control in those days. Uh,
but I think that, as I said, the role of

(04:51):
manager has just continued to grow and become more and
more important. Okay, how hard is it to break a
record today as a posed to years past? Um, it's
it's it's different. Um, it's it's a longer process. And UM,

(05:13):
I think we are certainly seeing sitting from a from
a British point of view, where for a long time
British artists would be successful in the UK and then
that would travel around the world quite easily. Uh, if
you have the right people in the right place. Um. Obviously,

(05:37):
now with the streaming and the predominance in America particularly
you know of hip hop and rapp and everything that,
that doesn't that that makes it harder for newer British
artists to break in Having said that, you know, Lewis
Capaldi is going to be the biggest new artist of
the year and that's in the UK. Do you think

(05:58):
it's going to happen in the US? I'm absolute it
because it hasn't happened yet. It will happen here, I
have no doubt about that. Well, I think that he
he's an incredible artist and he the songs are absolutely brilliant.
I'll declare a vested interest here. My son in law
did co write the Absolute smash? Well, you don't have

(06:22):
to worry about stopping your daughter money. Well there you go. Um.
But and he's an incredible character and I think that
plays out and you know in the way that that
ed Sharon and Nadele. You know, these incredible characters that
that have have reached beyond just their music, you know.
But you know you're still going to have British artists breaking,

(06:43):
there's no doubt about that. It's just a longer, longer process,
and it's a longer process for everybody, and particularly on
a worldwide basis. On the one hand, you have it
great that you put your music out on a Friday
and then it is available to anybody in the world
to hear it, so that is one of the great advantages.
On the other hand, you have to get out there

(07:03):
and make sure that they're getting the opportunity to hear it,
you know, Okay, other than Louis Capaldi. Even though we're
recording this while you're in Los Angeles a couple of
months before, people will hear it contemporaneous with when you
were reserving this receiving this award. Um, anybody else we
should be looking out for. Um okay, okay, let's uh,

(07:27):
let's switch it up then. Okay, so presently on your roster,
who do we have? Uh? Well, nal Horren, who's a
member of One Day and you were the manager of
One Direction? Yes, yeah, um, and they may have alms.
How kameoly Morris hasn't broken in America? Um I um,

(07:52):
I'm not sure that he was right for America. Maybe
it's a bit too bit too British but to English.
Um uh. And I think that um yeah, Little Mix
we also have and they have never really done it here,
and that I actually do I put pretty firmly on

(08:15):
the table of the labels promotion department because that band
deserves to be bigger here. You know, we we supported
Ariana Grande with Little Mix a couple of years ago,
and you know there were fifteen thousand people in the
in the Arenas and and twelve thousand of them were

(08:38):
singing the words to every single Little Mix song. And
I would turn to various Colombia folk present and you know,
give them an exasperated um. But you know, because a
Little Mix are are you know, absolutely massive in the

(09:01):
UK and very very successful in other parts of the world. UM.
Five seconds of Summer who obviously have done incredibly well
here um and and do very well around the world.
You know, we have a we have a very broad
UM roster. You know, we still look after Alison Moyer,

(09:23):
who most people in American from YEAZ but she's been
incredibly successful in the UK and in Europe and Australia
and as a solo artist for thirty years now and
we've representative for for the past fifteen years. UM. We
still represent Paul Potts in fact, who was the original

(09:43):
winner of Britain's Got Talent and people forget that that
James Cordon played Paul Potts in the movie of his Life.
James tries to forget anyway, we still represent him and
he does like eight gigs and on the world every year,
you know. UM. So you know, we like we're proud

(10:05):
of the fact that we have a broad rostrum. We're
proud of the fact that we have worked with a
lot of these artists for a long time. And how
many people worked from artists uh worldwide it's about uh
forty four and where are those people? You say, world
one well, mainly in London, but we were in New
York we have a couple, and in l A we

(10:29):
have like four. We're just adding more of fact, we're
for going to be six soon here and then we
have one in Sydney and Australia. Okay, let's go back
to the beginning. How did you get into music as
a little pup um? Well, because the great thing in

(10:53):
in England was that there was radio radio stations that
that everybody was listening to, and they were very broad stations. Um,
and I just used to listen to the radio a lot,
and I just became a okay, well just for those
of the Americans were listening. We really don't know that much.
So how many BBC radio channels were there? Well, well,

(11:17):
and in those days they were probably three or four,
you know, and now and then then and but the
other great thing that we had in England was pirate radio.
When did pirate radio hit The pirate radio really hit
the scene in about sixty five sixty six, I think,

(11:39):
And that was just when I was starting to get
into music, and and and I was living with my
my mother and my parents are divorced, and I would
listen and live with my mother and she would go
out to work, and so I would I and in
the holidays I would just listen to the radio stations

(12:01):
under the pillow and until two in the morning when
they turned off Radio London and Radio Caroline. And then
and then there was this other station called Radio Luxembourg
fabulous two oh eight um, and that that was just
where you got to hear every kind of music you
could you could think of. And then when Radio one

(12:22):
came along for um for the BBC, when they got
rid of the pirate stations. Radio one has always been
incredibly broad so you would you would you would hear
Jimmy Hendrix, the Four Tops and Dusty Springfield one after
the other, um on on Radio one in in and

(12:45):
so you you you found that Brits generally have a
far broader um sense of sense of different music. I think. Okay,
so you started buying records, So I started buying records. Yeah.
The first single I Have a ort I was reached
out I'll be there by the Four Tops. Well, I
know you're a big fan of the fourte Levi's stubs

(13:06):
is the greatest, uh. And then the first two albums
I bought were was Sergeant Pepper. Uh, and the first
Vanilla Fudge album. You know, first one was great with
of course they hit you get You, keep Me hanging
On and take Me for a little while. I bought
the second album because I love the first one so much.

(13:28):
It was terrible. The Beagle's Hard Yeah that actually if
funny enough. Something made me think of Vanilla eventually the
other day. So one of the great things about Spotify.
I went on Spotify and I listened to This is
Vanilla Fudge for about two hours. You know, I don't
need to go back, probably for a few more years.
But um, you know, I that just sort of all

(13:50):
of that just made me a fan. You know, And
I've never I've never been a musician. I've never There's
not an ounce of frustrated musician in me. Um. I
just I just love love music and being lucky that
I've been able to to work with it. Okay, so
you're in high school. Tell us about your experience there. Well, ah, there,

(14:18):
So I did pretty terribly at school. Um. And what
had happened was, um, in the fifth year, which which
I can remember what year that would be, So that
would that would so when I was fifteen, Uh, you

(14:40):
you took a set of exams called O levels and
and then and then the next year you sort of
there were no exams and that was scored the lower
six years, So that was sort of the year where
everybody us doss around doing nothing. And then in the
upper six year is when you took your A levels
to go onto university. So at the end of the
fifth year I got made the secretary of the jazz club.

(15:04):
I was a school in a place called Abingdon, near
near Oxford, and in those days used to go up
to Ronnie Scott's once a term to see people play.
And so I decided, well we're not going to go
to Ronnie Scott's. I'm going to bring the artists down

(15:24):
to to play at the school. This is a boarding school,
boarding school, well actually it was. It was one third
boarding school, two thirds day boys and yourself. You was
a boarding school. And this is how far from London?
It's an hour? Yeah, um, we'll just stopped for a second.

(15:45):
The jazz club, were they really into jazz, Well that
was that was sort of what they how they got
away with going up to London once a term to
see jazz. Yeah, I mean we mean somebody rich. And
we saw um Dick Hextel Smith. I can't remember no

(16:07):
other really great people. But anyway, I brought I brought,
I brought in cars Nucleus down to the to the
local town, into the local well a little bit slower.
You're going on a boarding school. How do you even
make that happen? Who do you call? What happens? Okay?
Well I had I had started going to a place
called the eighteen thirty two Club in Windsor, which was,

(16:31):
you know, ten minutes from where I lived. And I
got friendly with a guy called Andrew Kilderry who booked
the two club. And uh, so I have this idea
that I want to start bringing concerts on and so
I ring Andrew and and he and he books the

(16:51):
band you know, for I think it was forty quid
or something in those days. And and I managed to
get the school to agree to pay everything up front,
and and that the tickets would then go on on
the accounts of the boys, so that would then be

(17:12):
paid for by the parents. That's how I anyway, I
managed to get away with that, and so I so
the first one with Nucleus worked quite well, so that
that was in the school time. So then I thought, okay,
well look at in the holidays coming up, why don't
I put on a couple of concerts and the holidays.
So at that time I was really getting into Prague

(17:36):
and Egg. I don't know if you've ever heard of
I remember they've never really made anything you ever made
it anywhere? Really, But anyway, I was a huge Egg fan.
So I decided to put on Egg in the in
the local town hall, and which I did, and uh

(17:57):
made eight pounds, um, so that was reasonable. So I
then so if you're making a pound, how many people
are coming at what price? About three or four hundred people?
That's pretty good. At god, it was seven and six,
which which is about thirty fifty cents really um. Anyway,

(18:26):
so I then put on another one with if who
are on island, and I had to pay them more.
I can remember what I had to pay them, and
it was it was it was selling badly, and luckily
I I got a call from from Andrew Kilderry's saying

(18:47):
that the band couldn't do the gig, so and he
had Bloodwind Pig sorry the Mick Abrams band. It was
Cabron's band before he became Bloodwind Pig so and they
were about a third of the price of of of

(19:08):
if and so actually I got away with it, so
but that was I then decided that was enough. So
I then started doing them with Andrew in Oxford town Hall,
which is like a capacity With the first one we
put how far is that from your school? It's about
twenty minutes by past. So, Um, what did he need

(19:30):
you for? Because he he was booking various places, various
town halls, right and and so so we um uh
were I was sort of acting as an agent for
him as a you know, as a local promoter, right,
and we put on Genesis at at Oxford town Hall.

(19:55):
Now how much a Genesis cost I can't remember, but
I can tell you who's money. That was Andrew's. Andrew's money. Um,
I'm taking ten percent. How big is ours return? It's
about anyway. Um, we've sold about three hundred tickets, so
we're losing our shirt, right, but the but the hall

(20:20):
is completely rammed full. And Tony Smith, who you know
is the managers still is the manager. You know. It
came down because we're crying off saying we haven't got
money to pay him, and he said, yeah, but the
fucking alls full, you know, what do you mean? What

(20:40):
do you mean? And of course because we didn't have
any cash, I hadn't hired any securities, so all these
people had just come in through the through the doors.
So there were twelve people there, but only three hundred
of them had paid. So that was the end of
that one. That My other big mistake was I was

(21:01):
putting on Arthur Brown's Kingdom come in in Newbury Town
Hall and I go around with the mate plastering posters
all around Newbury, you know, for Arthur Brown's king didn't
come coming to play. And after I put on the
last one, some old geezers stops me and he says,
so you know, what's this? What's this gig? And I said,

(21:22):
it's Arthur Brown's Kingdom Come and they're coming, They're coming
to play. And he says, yes, but when are they
coming to play? And I looked at the post of
and we've forgotten to put the date on. So I
guess I worked out quite early on. I wasn't wasn't
cut out to be a promoter. Okay, two things, how
did that gig? Do? We canceled it? Yeah? And why

(21:45):
where did this entrepreneurial spirit come from. Um, that's a
very good question. I don't really know the answer to
that because my father was in the army, um, and
my my mom just you know, would do jobs whatever
you had to do to make to make a living.
But so anyway, I'm at school, you know. So was

(22:08):
there enough money to do and buy what you wanted
to do before you became a promoter? Um? No, we
were never There was never much money around. I mean
I got a I got a grant to go to
the to the school, you know, but it was it
was the combat. But it was a combination of things,
you know, how things happen. So I would I'd learned

(22:31):
a bit about promoting concerts. So I was doing that.
I'm playing a lot of cricket. Who are you a
good cricket player at that time? I was, yeah, thinking
of going professional or just enjoy just enjoying it. So,
I mean we watched the cricket matches go on for
like days. So you say you play a lot of cricket.
I mean, as kids, we would walk down to the park.

(22:53):
What is playing a lot of cricket look like? Well,
try explaining to an American that a cricket match and
last for five days ending a draw, and yet be
a great game of cricket. They cannot understand that at all,
in the same way as baseball can sometimes be something
that goes on forever until somebody HiT's the final. But

(23:14):
but you've had a good time going to a baseball match,
you know. Anyway, a combination of those things and sort
of being madly in love with the head girl at
the local girls school. Um My, my A level results
were well, let's put it this way. So the night
before I'm supposed to take my Economics A level, I

(23:36):
go and see my economics teacher and I say, whose
nickname is Doze? Doze Milton? I say, Mr Milton, you
and I know I'm not going to pass this exam.
I don't want to fail it. I just don't want
to take it. So he says, Okay, go in and

(23:57):
then after half an hour leave and then I'll just
roll your paper so it will be that you you
never took the exam. So that's great. Anyway. Four weeks
later I take English and History A level, and four
weeks later my A level of Arts come in and
I've got two d's. Okay, this is a disaster. But

(24:17):
I rang a guy called Tony Bowman who I shared
a study with, and I said, Tony, can you believe it,
I've got two d's. I'm going to get them to
remark my English a level. And he said, but Richard,
you didn't read any of the books, which was effectually

(24:39):
correct statement. So there I was, you know, with two d's.
You know, everybody's piste off. All my family are all
piste off of me because I haven't done any work.
But actually my my mom is married again by then,
and so I do a deal with my mom my
stepdad that um, I want to try again into the

(25:00):
music business and if it doesn't work after a year,
I'll go back to Polytechnic and retake my exams and
go and become a you know, a bookkeeper or something,
you know. So I when i'd been promoting these concerts
through with Andrew Killderry, but I had I'd come across
other agents, so I just wrote, because this is in

(25:24):
days of writing letters, I wrote to the number of
agents that I've done some business with them. One of
them called me up and he said, can you come
up and have an interview? A guy called Dave Winslet,
and he was at an agency called the Terry King Associates,
and he said that just so happens that one of
our guys is leaving, why didn't you come up and

(25:45):
you know, let's do a month's trial and see how
it is. I go up and I start doing that,
and I'm booking caravan, and I'm booking Southern Comfort, and
I'm booking in all Desmond Decker and all that. And
because in those days, every student union in and every
college had had gigs going on. I mean, there were

(26:09):
just hundreds of gigs going on every week. And so
they handed me the student union handbook and they said, okay,
just cool. Started a at aberrast with university and work
your way through it and so our X. So my
first day, I I started aberrast with university and I
get as far as St. Andrew's University when I finally

(26:31):
sell them Southern Comfort, not with Ian Matthews, by the way,
so I slightly condom there, but anyway, but so I
I sold them for you know, fifty quid or whatever.
And anyway, one thing led to another and I and
I started and then the office that I was in
was in ward Or Street and the Marquee Club was

(26:55):
in Wardoor Streets. So every night I would go down
to the Marquee Club and I would watch all the bands.
And that's when I that's when I first started to
realize that I had an ear for picking bands. And
I signed My first act as an agent was Eddie

(27:19):
and the Hot Rods, who were on this the sort
of pre punk thing that there was going on at
that time. And and so an Eddie and Hot Rods, Uh,
you know, we're hot, you know. UM and I then
I'd met a guy UM who managed um John Martin

(27:45):
and a number of other Island acts, and so he
asked me to to represent h John Martin UM and
here and I fall formed a company called Headline Artists
and UM. I then started looking at doing lots of

(28:10):
other things with with Ireland and and what happened was
that that I then got offered this job at Ireland
Records to sort of be an artist liaison guy, to
to work with managers and agents and the artists. Now,
before we get much further, tell the story when you
were an agent and the backstreet Crawler story, etcetera. Okay, so,

(28:36):
uh so um John managed Paul Kossof and Backstreet Crawler,
and uh so I was, I was there agent so
and obviously Paul Kossof had been a major star out
of Free. So we're booked this arena tour with Backstreet
Crawler and I'm looking for a support act and this

(29:02):
Australian guy comes in to see me and he he
plays me this band of his from Australia called A
C d C. And I just flip out, and you know,
I just think they're incredible. So I get John to
let me put them on the Backstreet Crawler tour. And um,

(29:25):
then a few months later, UM, the band A C
d C Are flying in from from Adelaide to to
start the Backstreet Crawler tour. And of course in those days,
it took thirty six hours to fly from Adelaide to London,
and during that time that the band were in the air,
Paul tragically died of a heart attack, also on an aircraft.

(29:50):
So I go down to Heathrow to meet Michael Browning
and I say, Michael, a terrible, awful news. Poor Kassa
has just died. So you know, there's no tour, and
he said, for fox sake, don't don't say anything to
the band. You've got to get them a gig. So

(30:15):
I managed to get them a gig two days later
at a at a place called the Red Cow and Hammersmith,
and I get them doing two forty five minutes sets
for pounds. I still have this contract frame somewhere. And

(30:36):
because no one there's no publicity for this, they're just
they just I've just managed to get him on the
gig somebody else that obviously pulled out. Anyway, I go down.
I go down to the gig. I've never seen them
play live, and they come out and that there are
like two men and a dog in the in the room, right,
I mean, there's just nobody. But they come out and

(30:59):
they do the all a C d C show and
Angus is on Bond Scott's shoulders and then Angus Duck
walks down the bar. It's the most incredible thing I
have ever seen in my life. And they finished the
forty five minutes set and that the two men and

(31:22):
a dog leave, and I'm thinking, we've just seen the
second Coming of Christ here, you know what's going on? Anyway,
half an hour later, the place is just rammed. Now

(31:43):
there's no mobile phones, no internet, no nothing, right, God
knows what had happened. Anyway, it's rammed. Now. I've told
the story a hundred times, and you know, you as
you tell stories, I'm sure we all do this, you
embellish them in et cetera. But I was at my
niece's wedding a couple of years ago and my brother

(32:08):
in law said to me, God, Richard, do you do
you remember that a C d C gig? And I said, David,
you tell me exactly what you remember. And he told
the story exactly as I've just told you. And Harry
he had come down with me to the gig. So
that was that. That was an extraordinary, you know, once

(32:31):
in a lifetime experience, you know. But I you know,
I didn't have the experience for to to to carry
on working with a C d C. Is I get
I get fired as their agent. I didn't know anything
about Europe or anything like that. So but Michael and

(32:53):
I the manager, and I remained good friends, and that
had a they had a knock on effect in my
career later on. But yes, so anyway, so I'm then, yes,
I'm doing I'm now an island record. You're the liaison
and and I started doing a bit of A and R.
And the first band I signed as a bank called

(33:13):
the jags Um who had one hit called I've Got
your Number written on the back of my hand and
I am determined one day to get someone to cover
it and make sure it's a proper hit. But anyway,
I did that, and I'm I'm I'm working with John
Martin and and then a band called the Buggles comes

(33:36):
along and they had this track called video called Killed
the Radio Star, and that you know, it goes on
to be the first number one record that I was
ever involved with. And I've got I've got quite close
to Chris Blackwell, and so Chris and offers me this
gig working pretty much really as this sort of p are,

(34:00):
you know, just sort of traveling around the world with him,
helping him do stuff, you know, And there was an
incredible experience, you know. And you know, I've got to
go to Bob Marley sessions and I've been in negotiations
without armored Rrigan and all this, and and Chris says

(34:21):
to me, you know what I want. I want you
to run Island Records, but you're too young. And David
Betteridge and Tim Clark, they're never going to accept. You know,
I'm twenty five at this stage, never going to accept
a young guy coming in. So what we're gonna do is,
we're gonna we're gonna start a company together and you

(34:42):
can run Basing Street studios and you'll sign artists and
we'll we'll make this a success, and then I'll be
able to bring you in to run Island. Great. Wow, fantastic,
he puts. He puts in some money, and he says,
it's gonna it's a fifty fifty joint venture and it's

(35:04):
called Peninsula Music as part of Ireland Records. Peninsula Music.
You know, what have I done to deserve this? And
so soon afterwards I go out to lunch with Brian Carr,
who is the lawyer for the clash and the sex Pistols,

(35:26):
and and of course in those days you used to
drink at lunchtime and and and he says, Richard, what
do you mean it's fifty fifty. It shouldn't be fifty fifty.
You're doing all the work. I mean twenty tho pounds
he's putting in. What's that? That's nothing to Chris Blackwell,
you know it should be it should be ninety ten
to you. You know, it's crazy. You could go and

(35:47):
tell him, go and change it, you know. So I
go back to the office and Chris happens to be
on the phone talking to one of the guys who
worked for me, Danny Goodwin. So I get Chris on
the phone. I say, Chris, Chris, you know, I mean
thinking about this, I'm not sure there should be fifty
fifty really, you know, I think it should be you know,

(36:09):
do you don't you think that's fair? And he says,
you know what, Richard, You're right, it shouldn't be fifty,
it should be a hundred zero. So I said, what
do you what do you mean, Chris it should be
a hundred zero? And he says, well, if you think
it should be today, then one day you're going to

(36:30):
think it should be a hundred zero. So let's just
cut straight to a hundred zero. The Lowyers are being
touch goodbye. Plank puts the phone down and all I
can all I can see before rushing before me, you know,
David and Tim laughing, and finally we got rid of
that fucker, and you know, blah blah blah. They're still
great friends with my mother. Way Um, so I get

(36:53):
on a plane and I fly to the Bahamas where
he wasn't and Compass Point, which I've been too many times.
And I get to the Apple. I get to the
airport and Compass Point and I ring Chris Compass Point Studios.
I said, Chris, it's Richard. He said, where are you?

(37:16):
I said, I'm just down at by the airport at
the Pelican Beach or whatever it was called. So why
are you there? And I said, because I've come to
talk to you said, we've got nothing to talk about.
I said, Chris, come on, We've we've got to talk about.
I've flown all the way out now. So um, he
takes me out on a boat and he basically tries

(37:38):
to scare the living daylights out of me with the
driving over the pebble the rocks, and you know, he succeeds.
I'm scared shitless, you know. Anyway, and he stops and
he says, you know what, you've got to learn to
be a much better negotiator, and uh, you know, we

(38:03):
can be friends, but we're not going to be in business,
right So UM, I go to the airport. I have
my Peninsula Music credit card, so I upgrade to first
class for the first time ever, and and and fly home.
And that was the end of Peninsula Music. So what

(38:25):
do you do now you're out of a job. Well,
I'm out of a job. I'm managing the Jags and
a few other things. And and that's and I this
this uh young agent from from America called Bobby Brooks
and Rob Light ring me up and tell me, tell
me that they think the Jags are going to be

(38:47):
the biggest thing since Ize Bread and and Chris is
Chris has got me to meet Frank Barcelona and Barbara Skydell,
and I just didn't really relate to them. I related
to Bobby and to Rob. So I signed to Bobby
and Rob with the Jags. And then Barbara Skuydell sends

(39:07):
me a a TELEX saying, we understand that you made
this decision to go with Bobby Brooks and robbed Light.
That's entirely, entirely you're right to make that decision, but
it is our right to decide who we do business with.
And please don't ever think of doing any more business
with Frank and myself. Here at what was Premiere Premier talent,

(39:34):
you know, and here's the most powerful agent in the
world basically telling me to funk off, you know. But anyway,
there's a comeback on that story later, um and uh,
I know obviously, I mean Rob Light, who has been
one of my best friends and closest working associates ever since.
You know. Anyway, things that shared. I go down my

(39:57):
friend Michael Browning, who had met the ch C d
C sends sends some your notes and come down to
Australia and I'm gonna I'm starting this label. Come and
work with me. Here, I had. I've been in Greece
on holiday. I've met this girl who I've fell madly
in love with at first sight, Olivia. I find out

(40:18):
that she is going down to Australia, so I decided
to go down to Australia. And uh and Olivia comes
down to Australia and and our pass cross and and
here we we've been together the best part of four
years since. Um I had also been managing a guy

(40:38):
called John Fox who had been the lead singer and
writer of Ultravox, and when the band broke up, um
I made what would normally be the right decision of
going with the the lead singer and the writer. Obviously,
Ultravox and went on to sell millions and millions of
records without me. But anyway, that got me working with

(41:01):
with Simon Draper at Virgin and and I'd been a
Virgin in the agency world for a for a very
short time. And uh, they ring me up and ask
if I want to come and and run publishing company.

(41:23):
So this is like one um so, so I leave
Olivia in Australia and and and I and I go
to to to a Virgin, you know, and of course Virgin.
That was just an incredibly exciting time. And you know,
the Virgin was was just taking taking off really and

(41:48):
the publishing company had already been very successful, um and
and we just went on this incredible run of of
signing you know, ABC and the Pet Shop Boys and
Tears for Fears. I mean, we just had an incredible
run of of success, um and and and Virgin Records

(42:11):
was also having this incredible run of success. And Virgin
was just becoming this amazing place to be. And you
had Richard Branson who had all these crazy ideas, you know,
I mean, you know, let's let's start our own record
company in in Germany, you know, and when nobody else
was even thinking of doing it. And then Ken Berry,
who was brilliant at making this stuff work, would make

(42:32):
it work. And then Simon Draper would find these incredible
artists and and and one thing, you know, we we
just there was a moment really through the eighties where
we're just you know, everything we touched turned to gold.
It was the most amazing time to to be with
an incredible group of people. And it was just amazing excitement,

(42:57):
you know. Okay, and then you moved to a mirror
with Virgin So then so then uh, uh we start
a record company in America and they want someone to
go and run the publishing company in America, and uh,
Richard and ken and Simon persuade me to to go

(43:18):
out to l A to to start the publishing company.
And um we then and that's the So the two
guys who have been working with me at a Virgin
Music was a guy called Danny Goodwin and has its
on a Mere and we we all moved to to
l A. And of course the publishing business in England

(43:41):
was a very uh cutthroat, you know, very aggressive business.
Um and when we moved to l A, we couldn't
it was just it was just like you know, everyone
one was half asleep, you know, it was you know,
so people would be our for these deals and we

(44:01):
just think that they were they were nothing. So we
just signed, signed, signed, and and and in our first
year in America, we were the number one on Billboard.
We were the number one charger company in the first year. Yeah,
we signed all the writers who did that if you remember,

(44:24):
Paula Abdel had that huge number of seven number ones
or whatever. And and of course things like tears, so
fears were massively there, and the Patriot Boys were messive there,
and Ozzy Osborne I had signed and anyway, we just
went on this incredible run. And um, what also happened

(44:45):
then was we've all been young guys growing up together.
You know, we've all been you know, nobody had really
made any money. We were just you know, we'd all
gone holiday together. That was. But then then we're getting
to the age where you know, we're getting married, we're
signed a families and so a slightly different perspective came
along and and Virgin went public, um and uh, and

(45:12):
that wasn't very successful. So so that the options and
everything that we've been given to to you know, be
able to cash out, you know when it when the
share price went on, that didn't really turn into anything
because the public just couldn't you know, deal with with
Virgin at the time, you know, so as as the

(45:37):
as the publishing company was being so successful, and I'm
then getting offered all sorts of jobs, right uh, you know,
to go to to m C A and to get
chrysalists and to anyway, in the end, I get approached
by Tommy Montola to to go to to to CBS

(46:02):
as it was then. And then after a long thought,
you know, I I turned it down and I stay
redo my deal with Virgin and I stay with Virgin
and then and then so that was that was like
in November, and then the deal the deal just never
got done. My deal never got done. And then I

(46:22):
then in the new year, i'm I'm I'm at the
A M A S and I um, I bump into
Tommy and he says, so you're happy with your decision,
And I said, actually no, Tommy, I'm not. I think
it was the wrong decision. So he said, okay, come

(46:43):
and see me tomorrow and we're going to work out
a deal and and we'll make it work. So I
went to see him and we worked out a deal.
And at that time I didn't think I wanted to
move to New York. So the job he gave me
was to be the head of the West Coast Um.

(47:06):
But then he was genius what he did has He said, Okay,
so that'll be your job. But what I want you
to do is I want you to come to New
York and and learn how the company works, understand how
the company works. And I'll rent your house in Greenwich,
Connecticut for six months. I'll give you a car and driver, uh,

(47:29):
and I'll give you X number of flights back and
forth from l A. And you know, I mean just ridiculous. Really,
you know, this was crazy times for the business. But
because he knew what would happen, he would He knew
that as soon as I went to live in New
York and experience New York and experience CBS and New York,

(47:51):
that that would be it. So I go, and then
he then he gives me to start with it, gives
me the job president of Associated where I worked with
Tony Martell and I had you know, the door not
the doors I had Ozzy Osborne, and I had lots

(48:12):
of different things there and and anyway, and I and
and I started signing acts. In the first first band
I I signed UM was UM to Spin Doctors, right Um.
And of course in those days, you know, you have

(48:35):
one hit and you sell eight million records, right right right,
So we did that, and then I had Hard Michael Goldstone.
And the next thing we sign is Pearl Jam. And
then and then we signed Rage against the Machine. And

(48:56):
so this is all going crazy. So they then make
me um president of Epic, and they make Dave Glue
the chairman of Epic, you know, just the the the
secretary to the the The Barbara's Skydell story is that Um,

(49:20):
the manager of of Regen of Pearl Jam, comes to
see me and he says, look, you know, I've got
two people who are really keen on on being the
agent for the band. One of them is William Morris
and one of them is Barbara Skydell. And I said, look,
I'm sorry, I can't get involved in this because I'm

(49:42):
not allowed to do any business with the premier talent
and Barbara Skydell. So he ended up signing to William
Morris and and then Michelle Anthony rings me and says,
what the fun is going on? Why why are you
telling and not designed to Barbara s Crater And I said, well,
look because Barbara sky Dell was the one who told

(50:04):
me that I couldn't do any business with us. So
you know, I was a young guy and and she
scared the ship out of me. And and I'm just
following on what I was told. You know, you would
be careful what you say. And did you ever make
up with Barbara sky Yes? Yes, yes, okay, so you
have this run and then on it was all going

(50:26):
incredibly well, and then um we get to sort of
where are we about nineties seven I suppose, and we'd
started a second label. Uh good, so Columbia had started
another work work, that's right, and we had started five

(50:48):
fifty Music with Polly Anthony running five Music. And uh,
it's funny how things work out. You know. Over the years,
I've been let down by people and disappointed by people,
but actually I've only ever been betrayed by one person

(51:10):
and that was that was Dave Glue because he took
me out. He took me out for lunch and just
to say, um, you know, Richard, I want you to
know I think you're doing an incredible job and it's
just amazing what you're doing. Blah blah blah blah. The
next day, I have a meeting with Tommy Matola and

(51:31):
Michelle Anthony and and they basically say, look, we love you,
but we're going to merge five fifty and epic. Um so,
but we want you to stay. Will you? Um, would
you like to run the publishing company that we started.

(51:53):
Would you like to come in and be the number
two in the international division working for Bob Bolan, Or
would you like to go back to London and run
CBS in or Sony as it was in in in London.
And I said, oh, well, you know there's a lot

(52:14):
of a lot for me to take in. Um, what
about the other option? Will you pay out my contract? Right?
And because he's in the days of non mitigation contracts
and I just literally just signed a new four year
deal and uh, but I said, let's leave it with me,

(52:35):
let me think about it. And uh. I went and
saw Paul Schindler, who was my lawyer at the time,
and I talked it through with him, and he said,
let me make a few calls, let's see and and
what happened quite quickly. I found out that there were
there there were going to be other other gigs available,
and Olivia and I had been thinking that about going

(52:58):
back to England. Uh. You know, originally we only went
out to the States for three years, but um, we've
been there for for ten and UM, so I go
back to Tommy and I said, you know, well, I'd
like i'd come back, I'd go back to England and
I'd run I'd run the Sony in UK. Anyway, Paul Burger,

(53:23):
who ran Sony in the UK, didn't want to didn't
want to leave um London, so it was all too complicated.
So and then and then Clive Davis approached me to
go and run Aristair in New York. And then when
so when the BMG people heard about that, then the

(53:47):
BMG people, Rudy Gassner, who ran BMG then UM, approached
me about going to run the European side of things
for for for BMG. So long story short, I'm sorry
if I'm rambling here. The the we end up I
end up getting my check and going to London to

(54:11):
to work for Rudy and run the UK and Central
Europe of of BMG UM, which sort of indirectly is
is why you know why we're here today, you know,
indirectly meaning what well, because what Hammen was tragically Rudy

(54:34):
died six months later, and I loved Rudy. I thought
he was an incredible man. And um, anyway, this guy
rol Schmidholtz comes in and um just here and I
just from day one just did not see eye to eye,

(54:56):
you know. Ah. And you know, I accept that I
probably behaved rather badly, you know, to him, calling him
a fucking idiot in board meetings and things which I
probably shouldn't have done. But he was a fucking idiot,
and not surprisingly I I get fired. Well, you told

(55:17):
the story about putting your feet on the desk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't want to tell that. Yeah, So at the
board meetings, I would I would sit there, uh, and
I would just put my feet on the on the desk.
It's just been something that I've always done, is put
my feet on the desk. And Rof would get really
piste off about it, and he would one day he

(55:40):
he went and he went and got a cloth from somewhere,
and he picked up my feet and put the cloth
down on the table and then plumped my feet, you know.
It was it was doomed from from from day one.
But um, but actually, of course what had happened was
that I had hired Harry McGee to come and run
our c A in the UK and here, and I

(56:04):
became very close, very quickly. Um. And so when Ralph
firs me, um, he fires Harry as well. And they
so that I'd been at the Spanish International meeting and

(56:26):
they summoned me to New York. So I get someone
to New York. I know what's going to happen here.
So I go to New York. I have a ten
minute meeting where they farm me and then then I
get back on the plane and I fly back to London.
And on the way back, after a couple of martinis,
I've been through every job that might possibly be and

(56:50):
I realized that that there isn't one for me, you know,
and frankly I'd had enough of it all by then anyway,
And then they fire Harry, and then uh, two days
later it was the BMG Golf Day and Harry and
I think funk that, you know, we put the bloody

(57:10):
golf Day together. We're going to go to the golf day.
You know. So we go to the golf day and
on the way to the golf day, we start talking
about what what are you going to do? He says,
I'm thinking I'm going into management. I said, well, I'm
going to go into management. Why don't we go into
management together? Yeah, great idea. So we go to the
BMG golf day and and and we come back managers,

(57:35):
but not no artists or whatever. But then Jeff Quantits
gets in touch with me, and I'd signed Corn when
I was an epic and I had a very close
relationship with Jeff Quantz and Jeff Jeff flies me out
and he says, look, you know, I want to start

(57:55):
an international division of the firm. Is a huge man
Ashman company. Then hundred acts and you know, two hundred people.
It was. It was just massive. So we start so
that we've been through this cold period for a few
months where no one's calling us and no one's talking
to us. And then then we opened up one day

(58:17):
as the firm and we have twenty three platinum martyrs
from America, so suddenly everybody is calling us, etcetera. And
we we really started managing. You know, Lana Ritchie and Enrico, I,
Gleasias and Lincoln Park, you know, we and and working
with those managers, we learned a huge amount um and

(58:44):
it was going. There was a real feeling that it
could that the firm could have gone on to be
something massive. But then Jeff then got into the film world.
He bought Mike Covids as company, and it just became
a little distracted. So we decided, Harry and I then

(59:07):
decided that we would leave the firm and we would
start start start our own thing. And we'd already picked
up our first uh sort of a few acts, and
that we've been appointed to There was a TV show,
talent show called the Fame Academy, and we've been appointed
to be the managers of the Fame Academy. And so

(59:28):
we we, uh we start that and and I remember
we didn't have a name. And then Jed Doherty, who
was who had taken over from me actually as the
chairman of BMGs to this day a very great friend
of mine, rings up and he says, um, so what
are you doing? I explained. He says, oh my god,

(59:49):
So what are you going to call the company? And
I said, I've got no idea what we're going to
call the company. And he says, why don't you call
it modest, laughing, And I said, that's a great idea,
but we'll put an exclamation mark at the end of
it so people know that it's ironic. And then, you know,

(01:00:13):
just one thing sort of led to another. Really, um,
and you know we had from that show, we had
some great success and did our first arena tour and
that was Lamar Lamar. And how come he didn't break
in America? Uh? I just don't think it was right

(01:00:38):
for him. You know, Um, where is he today? What
he makes a good living? Still still working and still
see him every so often and he yeah, he's he's
doing okay. But we then had then we started then
we started working because Simon Simon cow had worked for
me and and he he had started The X Factor

(01:01:03):
and nothing really was happening with that for the first
couple of years. And he brings me up and he says, look,
this is driving me mad because each each of the
judges had had a manager looking after their acts and
and he said, it's just chaos backstage. I've got I've
got four judges, I've got four managers, and I wanted

(01:01:25):
you to come in and you and Harry and when
you to manage all of the artists from the beginning
through to whoever it is ends up winning. And so
we started doing that. And it was at that time
when even the act that came twelveth in the show
could go out and make a reasonable amount of money

(01:01:47):
um doing you know, we do three clubs a night.
You know, there was the the X factor was so
huge that the knock on effect on all those artists
was massive. Um. And then the first year that we
did it, uh, Leona Lewis won it, and of course

(01:02:07):
Leona is an incredible talent. UM, and we sold you know,
I don't know ten twenty million hours. I suppose more
than that probably, UM. So that you know that. Then
jere Less came along and they were they were they
were huge and um. And then then then One Direction

(01:02:31):
told the story of One Direction. One Direction. There's lots
of people who claimed to have put that together, but
I think it really it was all down to Simon's vision. Um.

(01:02:52):
The what's your name Scherzinger was you know, was on
the panel, and a couple of the boys, none of
the none of the boys were getting through right, um,
and Nicole said Luis should put a band together, and

(01:03:13):
I wasn't involved with this at all, um, and Simon
just thought that was a great idea and chose the boys.
And you know, it's it's it's been done a hundred
times and a thousand times, and it's just you can't

(01:03:35):
explain what it is that no pun intended X factor
that is there when it when it works. But you
had five, you know, very likable guys, all with different characters,
all doing their own thing within the band. Um, and
it just it was just the perfect storm really and um,

(01:04:00):
although funny enough people forget, I mean so Sunny Taker,
who was running Psycho Records at the time, had got
hold of That's what makes You Beautiful, which is, you know,
just an incredible song, you know and southern. You know,
I wrote it as an incredible writer and um, so

(01:04:23):
that was a smash in the UK, not not really
anywhere else at the time. And then Simon insisted on
a track called Got to Be You as the second single,
and nobody wanted that to be the second single. Nobody
the band hated it anyway that you know, Simon was

(01:04:46):
the king and that's what happened, and that that was
a flop, you know, and people forget you know, it
came in at six rightever it was, you know, it
was a flop. And then and then the next most
important person in in the history of of One Direction

(01:05:06):
is is Amy Barnett. And Amy Barnett is Steve Barnett's
niece and she was living in in Um in the
UK at the time and she told Stephen all about
One Direction and we were doing some shows and she

(01:05:28):
she got him to come and see the band to
play at Hammersmith Apollo, and you know that the light
bulb went on and Barnett was a huge champion for it.
And then Rob was a huge champion from Stringer, Rob
Stringer and they put One Direction on on the tour

(01:05:52):
with a Big Time Rush and which was already sold
out that tour. And you know, as I was saying
about gigs and moments that that you just never forget,
you know, the A C. D C moment, well, the
Chicago One Direction supporting Big Time Rush moment was this

(01:06:16):
was a sold out to before the band where ever
put on One Direction, come out and perform not very
well six songs, but you cannot hear a thing because
of the screaming that is going on. And then when
they go off stage, they go UM that half the

(01:06:38):
crowd leaves the auditorium to go to the merch stand
and we sell out of every piece of merch that
we had for the entire American tour in one night
and one night and Steve Barnett comes down to the
dressing room, and this is in February and he says

(01:07:03):
to the band, you will be playing Madison Square Gardens
by the end of this year. And at the end
of the year we played Madison Square Gardens and then
ultimately you played stadiums all over the world. What do
you think ultimately drove it? I think that it was

(01:07:25):
the unique chemistry and character of the boys Um, because
they were they each had they each had their own thing. Um.
You know, obviously it was it was Harry and his looks.
H and Zane you know, you know, had an incredible voice,

(01:07:48):
Liam had an amazing voice. Nile was just this incredible
charmer UM and funny enough, Louis he doesn't get nearly
enough at it. You know, he was the one, he
was the one who was really the driver behind the band.
UM and it was just it was just that magical

(01:08:09):
combination of all of them, and they were great mates.
You know. Obviously, as as bands go on, then things
changed in the chemistry. As you get older, that that
changes as well, and that obviously came to a head
when when Zane left. But for the longest time they

(01:08:31):
remained great mates and had great fun and and the
fans recognized that. And the fans can recognize when it's
not real, and it was real with them. Plus they
had some incredible songs, you know, and you know, you

(01:08:51):
you need to give Simon and Sunny Taker, you know,
and sarden uh credit for for that, you know. Um, Okay,
So to what degree is one D one D equivalent
to keep up? Or what do you think of ke pop? Well? Uh,

(01:09:13):
I can't to this day, I can't understand how and
what has happened though, other than it has happened, and
I see the huge success, um and I freely admit
that it's something that I don't understand, you know. But
what what what hasn't changed, And what you do see
is that from the days of Elvis Presley, through the

(01:09:36):
Beatles and the b Gs and then you know, all
the other great pop bands. Twelve to sixteen year old
girls have always loved falling in love with good looking boys,

(01:09:57):
and that is never going to chang change. Just putting
up you know, it's four or six good looking boys
isn't good enough. It has to be something that is
tangible for those fans to relate to. And that is
the bit which everybody is always trying to do. And

(01:10:20):
you look at the number of times that that has
has been tried. But you know, you look at Backstreet,
Backstreet boys, you look at um, you know, and everything.
You know, there's always you know, in England we had

(01:10:41):
a Bank of Westlife which never made it outside, but
you know, there's You're never going to stop those young
girls wanting to fall in love with good looking young men.
And why did Robbie Williams never make it in the US? Well, ah,

(01:11:02):
I don't really know. I think that they, um, I
don't know too much about that. I think maybe they
went wrong. They should have gone straight with angels rather
than try to be They maybe went a bit cool
to start with um. And then he called his American
album the Ego is Landed. You know America. That doesn't

(01:11:25):
translate well in uh in American you know. Um, I
mean it's extraordinary really considering what a huge story is
everywhere else in the world and now here he is
doing weeks at a time in Vegas, you know. And
why did you start working with ka Um? That was

(01:11:46):
really Simon's decision, you know, he just decided that we've
had some problems with Little Mix, um when when Sunny
left the dynamic with the label change. And of course,
when you've when you've had artists on on a TV
show and you've sort of dictated how that all went,

(01:12:09):
and you've and you've given them the break, and then
they've gone on to be very successful, you do have
to realize that there's a moment when you have to
give the artists their head and allow them to grow up.
As they are growing up there, they're no longer sixteen
year olds or eighteen year olds there, They're they've grown up.

(01:12:31):
And Little Mix had really reached that stage and they
were being asked to record some tracks which they just
didn't like. And uh, you know, Simon felt that that
that that wasn't right and he felt that we we

(01:12:55):
weren't supporting him enough in getting getting that done. But
the simple fact of life is that We work for
the artists, we don't work for the record company. Um
so you know, we're there to support the artist and
actually we felt the artist was absolutely right at that time.

(01:13:18):
So um, as far as we're concerned, that was Simon
fell out with us. We we don't feel anything but
but good feelings towards Simon. But also since you start
working with his TV shows, none of those acts of
hit well, uh yeah that that yes, that could be true. Yes,

(01:13:43):
but it's true. Does he ever regret it or he's
just you know, keeping his distance? Well, I hope that.
You know. The funny thing is we've had far bigger
arguments about things, you know, far far bigger arguments about things,
you know. Um, So it was you know, there was
there was just a lot of change going on there

(01:14:05):
at the time. And you know, I hope that one
day we'll find something to work on together again, you know. Um,
but that's we'll just have to see how that plays out,
you know. Okay, So where's the business going. Well, I

(01:14:25):
think it's a very exciting time, you know, um I
I I I judge success now from with our artists
with by ticket count and per heads and merchandising and

(01:14:47):
I know there's a lot of talk about live work,
you know, business being down, and that may well be
the case, but I suspect that in certain areas it
probably over expanded. So that's sort of contraction, is just
like a leveling out from what I see from where
we are, it's it's just growing and growing. And I

(01:15:09):
think that the what what's exciting about the way the
DSPs work is that the whole international thing, when you
get that right, that does mean that that although you
do still have to go and visit territories and put
the artists in front of people, an awful lot of
that work is being done for you up front, you know,

(01:15:31):
through through Spotify, through Apple, etcetera. You know. So I
know you're a big Prague fan. Is there any hope
for rockers? Rock dead? God? I hope, So, I tell you,
you know, I think I think I've got two remaining
ambitions in life. One one one is to win the

(01:15:53):
Eurovision Song Contest one day, because I grew up listening
to the Eurovision Song Contest, watching it with my mother
and my sister, you know. And I actually did represent
the English entrance in six but we we only came six,
you know, but one one day, even if it's not

(01:16:15):
the English entrant, I hope I have the entrant that
that wins it. And then the other would be to
be going to see a great probe band or a
great rock band. You know. I I was so lucky
working with Rage Against the Machine and Pearl Jam and
Corn and Aussie you know, I I loved working with

(01:16:40):
those artists and and I I'm in the same way
as there are always going to be uh, you know,
twelve to sixteen year old girls looking to fall in
love with, you know, good looking guys. I believe that
there are young guys who are going to be looking
to want to have an idol of a guitarist or

(01:17:02):
a singer and to be up there doing that. You know,
well that I agree that there's a business. But right
now in America the radio and Spotify is dominated by
hip hop, not live. So is there a chance that
rock can you know, break up that hegemony? Well? Uh,

(01:17:23):
you know you should ask Peter Mention that question. Uh.
You know, he's far closer to it than than I am.
But I do believe that there will be, you know,
a band that will come through that will start a
movement again. It may not be on the on the
scale that we've seen, but I just hope. Maybe it

(01:17:48):
is only hope, but I do also believe that there
will be a movement again that will happen. And since you're,
you know, living in England, but you've lived in the
US and you were we said these worldwide acts, what
do you see as the difference between those two major markets.
When I was managing the Jags, and when we arrived

(01:18:14):
in New York, we were going to be the next
big thing. We were on the back page of Billboard magazine.
We were on you know the ad they used to
take there, and on cash Box on the front page,
and we were going to be the next big thing.
And then we toured our way across America doing radio shows,
and then we get to l A six weeks later

(01:18:35):
and suddenly no longer are we going to be the
next big thing. So the tour support gets pulled. I
have to get rid of the tour manager, and I
end up driving the band back across America, gigging in
a in a Winnebago, gigging across America, getting down to Miami,

(01:18:58):
where we're gonna then get on on boat and go
over to a compass point to make the second album,
and what I learned from that was just how fucking
huge America is. And I think the point that I
think a lot of British acts over the years have

(01:19:19):
not appreciated that America is not New York, m l A.
It's everywhere in between, and you do have to go
out and you do have to go and play there
and see it and make that connection. I think that's

(01:19:44):
uh that that's that's something that you can come to
London and to England and play London and essentially you're
taken care of of the UK. But in America you've
got to get out there and you've got to you've
got to doodle. You know, you've been listening to Richard
Griffith's here on the Bob Left Sets podcasts. We're doing

(01:20:06):
this in honor of modest Management getting the Music Industry Award. Richard.
You're a great rock and tour and you've dropped a
lot of wisdom. Thanks so much for being Thanks very much,
lovely Glea