The Glorious Sons

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Left Podcast. Today we
are going to get to the bottom of the band,
but Gloria's son. We have the whole team here. Let's
start it. This is audio, so everybody's gonna describe and
you can't see. But let's start at this end of
the table. Nick Hadaway BMG Records, head of promotion. Okay,

(00:30):
Jason Murray glorified babysitter slash manager of these young men,
j Emmon's assistant babysitter. Okay, you're in the band, okay,
bred Emmon's baby. Okay, you're the you're the lead singer. Okay.
You played last night at the ol Ray. What was
going on there? Why was everybody there? Um? I don't know. Okay,

(00:54):
let's say you're a band from Canada. My research says
you're not getting any terrestrial radio play in Los Angeles,
So what was bringing people to the show? I would
say the live show we played in l A how
many times? Now? Three? Three? Yeah? Would you wed you
played before the l Ray's remember the Roxy Roxy door? Yeah?

(01:16):
What was that Roxy? What? You played the will Turn
before you played the l Well, it's a live nation
building I guess that's why are you now? You open
for the Stones? Right? How many gigs did you do
with the Stones too? Okay? Because the guys who are
the promoters of the Stones were there last night and say, hey,
you know from a g that, uh you're one of

(01:38):
their acts. Okay, So you found there was an increase
in audience each time you played in l A. Yeah,
we never we haven't come here and played on our
own backs and three years. So so this is kind
of like a I couldn't tell you that there's a

(02:00):
I wouldn't know you know what the increase would be
because usually we come here and open for other bands.
Who have you open for the Struts? Uh? Welsh Arms?
We headlined the roxy last time we're here? Shows you
how much I know. Okay, let's go back to the beginning.
You're from Canada, how does the band begin? Um? Well,

(02:21):
I actually had moved out to Halifax to start the
band with Great A lot of people are Americans. They
know nothing about anywhere other than America. So where where
was your born? As Cheech and Chunks at Kingston, Ontario? Kingston,
Ontario for those who are ignorant, how far from Toronto?
Two hours? Okay? And you grow up in that environment.

(02:43):
What's Kingston like for someone who's never lived there? Small town, quaint,
little college town. Okay. What your parents were for a
living count welder and employed? And how many kids in
the family? Three? Okay, and you're we're in the high
from the oldest. We have a middle brother, Dustin, and
then there's Brett Young. Okay, so you grow up in

(03:08):
a house. Your father is an accountant, as he's playing
a lot of music. He's a welder actually, but no,
nobody in our family was musical for us. Okay, what
I thought he did? I get it wrong about account
Your mother is an account Sorry about that. Okay. You
two guys are in the band, the middle person boy
or a girl boy? And what is he up to?
He's a contractor? Okay. So you're in Kingston. Are you

(03:30):
addicted to the radio? No? No, I used to wear construction.
I hated the radio. They play the same Okay, we
can look it up on the internet. How old are you? Okay?
So you hear that voice in in the band? You
do what? Play guitar? Play guitar? And you okay? So
then were you big music fans? So how did you

(03:53):
get into music, Dad, Dad and mom, Beach Boys and
John Cougar mellon camp. When we were really young, we
just put the cassette in and help me. Rondo was like,
you know, a hit going long road trips. And then
I developed my own taste eventually, but that's where it
all started. There's gigantic, like I don't even know what

(04:16):
to call it, like cassette holder, suitcase with cassettes. Okay,
So there was a lot of music in the home. Well,
there was music there, but it wasn't like it wasn't
like we were a music family. It was like you
get in the car and you put a cassette on,
like okay, Well, if you were home, you were not
on a road trip, would there be music playing because
of J. I would listen to music because of J,
but not because of my parents. Okay, so your parents

(04:36):
would not be playing music. So were you were you?
How did you find out about new music? Good question,
You know the same way everybody else does. You Just well,
you know, you're younger than a lot of people the
old days. Baby, when were found out about on the radio,
gen X, MTV, about what your friends are doing, It's
like you know your friends listening to a Green Day learning.

(04:59):
When I come around on the guitar, you you're like, oh,
that's cool, I want to learn that too, and then
it kind of like just snowballs like that. Okay, let's
start at the beginning. When do you pick up an
instrument that was probably grade five, grade six, so like
ten eleven, And what was the inspiration? My best friend
had a guitar, so I was like, dang, I want
one of those two. And what was your first guitar?

(05:21):
It was a Yamaha strat rip off type thing. It
really sucked, like had like the floating bridge locking tuning
things and I didn't even know how to use it
since it was black and Johnson had the red one.
Yeah yeah, and it I didn't even know how to
tune the thing and you literally had to get an

(05:41):
Alan key to actually unlock it. And like it was
it was a whole thing. Like Okay, who paid for it? Um?
Probably mom and dad. Okay, did you have any yamp? Yep?
What was the amp? It was massive PV keyboard amp
that would like blow the roof off the house on one.
It was like it's like, I don't know who would

(06:02):
sell eleven year old kid to say, I have no idea. Like,
looking back on it, you're like, guy sold it to
it to us five d bucks and it's like it's
not even a guitar m first of all. And it's
the loudest thing I've ever heard. And you bought this
stuff new, were used used just from some guy you
found from my guitar teacher. He's a bit of a shyster. Okay,

(06:25):
So did you start guitar lessons before you had this equipment?
What would what actually happened tell the story about your
guitar teacher. So like the first like literally three years
of my guitar lessons was learning uh whatever you like
you call notes, like yeah, the bell baby books. Yeah,
but it was like Jesus Loves Me and like jingle

(06:48):
bells and I'm going to guitar lessons and I'm for
three years. You didn't take a gat in another teacher.
I just looked at I looked at my buddies and
like they're going on the internet and getting tableture and
playing like cool songs and I'm playing Jesus Loves Me.
I'm like Jesus. There's a massive disconnect here. He's a

(07:10):
quiet dude too, So he's not gonna say anything to anybody.
He's not going to tell him. I'm I guess I'm
persistent to a fault because I stuck with it and
you read music to this day. Hell no, okay, before
he sold you this loud amplifier and the rip off guitar,
what were you playing like music wise? No? No, what

(07:32):
did you use for a guitar? I don't have one
like that was the first That was the beginning. Okay.
So he sold you that stuff and then he gave
you the lessons. Yeah, and for three years you're learning
this religious stuff. You're not playing in any bands, You're
not learning stuff at home to cassettes or anything. I'm trying,
you know. But like I said, it's if you ever
pick up a guitar for the first time, it's not

(07:55):
an easy thing to navigate. It wasn't for me anyway. Um,
everything everything Jay does is through brute for us, so
like it never comes fast to him like it would?
You agree with that? Absolutely? Okay? So when did it
click or is it still not clicked? Um? For guitar,

(08:17):
it's starting to click, you know. Um, I think it
started to click when I really like I used to sing,
so um, I would just lean on my buddy who
could do like all all the November rain solos. You know,
he played guitar. I just strump the chords and sing
and we had a band, but it was more like
us having a drinking competition on stage. And then I

(08:40):
went and saw Brett's first band and I was like
Jesus Christ was like that that's a singer right there. Okay,
but a little bit slower. So how long after the
three years do you start a band and hit the
stage or what? We had really shitty bands for years,
so like was always about starting things, but they sucked

(09:04):
you know. Um, so did you ever get paid for
being in these bands? You're just playing in the garage? Yeah,
we would get free booze sometimes. And what were you
up to? Well? I was like seven years old. I
was at their concerts thinking they were the greatest bands
of all time. I remember like being truly hurt when
somebody didn't like the band. I remember I remember them

(09:26):
playing and um, Kingston, there's this place called Confederation Basis
Basin and it's just like you know the park you know,
meant for like you know, events and stuff and they
put on shows there and I remember this, you know,
this guy that was in a band playing before them,
this with you know, Space ear Rings is punk, you know,
I thought he knew everything. Was like just chirping my

(09:50):
brother's band like heavily. And I was like nine years old,
and I fuck him, took him. I took him. I
took him to task. Really I hated him in my
whole life. Like I would meet people that, you know,
you Jay was playing rock and roll, okay at an
age when it wasn't cool to play rock. Yeah, okay,

(10:11):
but you're you got all these guys you know playing
you know, I have nothing against their music tastes or
what they're playing, but they there was a certain thing
in our in our town at least that the punks
always they always had this arrogance about them that everybody
else sucked. So you're separating the punks from rock and roll, yeah,

(10:34):
and which isn't a real thing, but well no, it
is a thing if you get that deep. Absolutely just
want to make sure we get it straight. But in Kingston, Ontario,
my brother, my brother would be playing these shows and
he would be playing with punk bands and he'd be
playing rock and roll and they would always chirp them
and I was like a twelve year old kid and
I and I would always chirp them back. And I

(10:54):
was there at every show. They were my favorite band
on Earth. I didn't know how shitty they were. J
Jay tells me the ship they were shitty, but I
I when I was young. You were the younger brothers.
So how did you get into it? Him? Okay, Yeah,
so how did you become a singer? Um, this is
a funny story. I got asked to join a band
and be the singer of the band because they knew

(11:16):
I was a psycho. So I and you were how old? Okay?
And had you sung like in school? The records? Nothing,
So they just based on your identity said you'd be
you'd be a good front man. Yeah, and uh. I
joined the band and we had like three practices and
then they stopped calling me, like and I was just

(11:36):
kind of like, what's going on here? And then I
found out like three or four weeks later that they
had invited another person to joined the band, and I
just kind of, you know, I was maybe, you know,
one of the first I don't want to say failures,
but you know, I felt very rejected as you. And

(11:58):
I was playing basketball with my friend Richard Storms, and uh,
he was like, yeah, I played the guitar, and I
was like, all right, well, let's start a fucking band
and beat these guys. So we went to his garage
and he started playing like guitar like slash, like at
least what I would. Yeah, and I was like, well,

(12:19):
I better learn to sing. So I took the guitar
and played weak Kings by a band called the Tragically
Hip and from Kingston, and Uh. I literally locked myself
in my room for five six hours a night and
sang that song, just that song, until it sounded good
to myself. And after that was we wrote a song

(12:43):
called Rags and I never looked back. I wanted to
do that for the rest of my life. It took
over everything. Okay, were you any good in school? I
was good at English literature, but I was so you
were not like, you know, a Truan guy who's the
problem in the clos room or anything. I was a
little bit of Uh. I was more of a joker.

(13:03):
I wasn't. I wouldn't say that I was a problem.
I wasn't. It wasn't like a it wasn't a troubled
youth by any means, but like my teachers would get
very annoyed with me unless it was English class because
I actually liked English class, so I listened. But okay,
and at this late date, are you like a big
reader or something? We all? Yeah, I mean Jay read

(13:26):
quite a bit. Jay reads more than night what oh
Jesus you name it like i've we we we we started.
I started at least becoming an a real reader on Hemingway.
I really loved Hemingway. And then I mean, some of
my favorite books are like Comforter, Confederacy of Dunce. Is

(13:46):
uh just just fiction novels. Okay, so you start this
band and what do your parents say when they say
you want to be a rock and roller? Well, Jay
started the band and I joined, but I university literature,
and I called my dad and I told him I
was going to be a musician. And my mom didn't

(14:07):
talk to me for a couple of weeks, maybe more
after that, because you know, I just went online and
canceled all my courses and I didn't want to give
them a chance to talk me out of it. Um,
but I quit everything, and my dad said, well, you
better get a job. So I started working I call
it springs, a stockboy in the back women's shoe store

(14:32):
and played a bunch of terrible gigs for zero dollars
until I joined the Glorious Suns and then we started
making you know, the big bucks. Okay, just to be clear,
the band with your friend, did you play in high school?
Did you play any gigs? Do you ever get pass? Yeah? Well,
we played as much as possible, like as much as

(14:53):
a high school band. Like, we played as much as
we possibly could. We had a fake manager that didn't
do it anything. I mean, we thought we were gonna
be the biggest band in the world, So I mean,
any opportunity that came my way, we played. And that's
the way that it goes. When you're starting, you like
you just want to play your music. Okay, So how
long did you go to university? A year and a half. Okay,

(15:15):
At what point did you start this band? Were you
playing original material or as opposed to covers? As as
soon as I started playing in a band, all I
want to do is play original material. But usually when
you play original material, audiences are not interested. But I'm
a good front man. As you are. I saw, okay, Jay,

(15:37):
well he's going through these mental mashinations. What are you doing? Uh?
When he's at school? You mean did you go to university?
And how long did you go? For? Four years? So
you graduated and so you were not going to make
music your career at that point. Uh, well I had
a band almost always, like I always had something cooking

(15:59):
in the background. Um. I literally had no idea what
I wanted to do. But you always talked that you
actually did. That's not true. You always wanted to be
in a band. Yeah, your whole life. I can remember
you working and snapping and freaking out about like this
is not what I want to do. That like when
something clicked in my head when I was like twenty
eight years old, or whenever I started this, I was

(16:21):
like this, so today you're how old? And I was like,
this is my last shot to actually do something. So
that's bye, okay a little bit slower. So you you
were kind of like a semi pro musician and you
get really you graduated from college and you do what

(16:42):
for like the next six year contractor construction. Um, but
we still had a band then, like just playing around
Kingston and you saw his band and thought what I
was like, these high school kids blow us out of
the water. Not not a question, it's like you put

(17:02):
us back to back, like yeah, um yeah. But and
so I saw his band, and then my band kind
of broke up and fell apart, and then uh, we started,
Brett and I started like writing together. We did like
an acoustic project, and then the Stone Ponies. Don't forget
the Stone Ponies. We'll tell me about that. It was

(17:25):
the bass player from my band, Jay's roommate and oldest friend,
Scott on the drums, Jay on guitars, and me playing
acoustic and singing, okay. And what happened with that band? Uh? Nothing, nothing, okay.
So how many years after you dropped out of university?

(17:47):
Was it before it became you looked up with your brother?
It was Glorious Sons. I dropped out of university to
join the Glorious Sons and being my brother's band. Was
it the Glorious Sons in name before Brett joined was
Pete Rose and the Gamblers. That's pretty good, especially Sins.
Right now he Rose, I'm saying he's straightened out. He
should be in the band, but be in the Hall

(18:08):
of fame. Okay, I think you should too. Okay, So
it Pete Rose and the Gamblers. How does it become
the Glorious Sons, um packer and the band or drummer. Yeah,
it was just like, what about the Glorious Suns, And
we're all like, wow, it's better than Pete Rose and
the Gamblers. The only thing you know, when you talk
about rock, which is its own side show today, of

(18:31):
course people say there's the Rivals Son. No. I totally
agree with you. I wish we were never ever named
the Glorious Sons. I hate the name. If we were
named something else, I could, I think we might have
more success. I honestly think that we would be less
looked at as like, uh, you know, bro rock and
roll band. I think if we had, you know, a

(18:52):
name with meaning at least, it would help. Okay. But
when you he said you're going to become the Glorious Sons,
will you air of the band the Rival Sons? No? No,
not at all. Okay, So suddenly it's the Glorious Sons
when you get together the two brothers. How many of
the people in the band are still in the band today, Uh,
everybody except our original guitar player. What happened to him?

(19:16):
I didn't like the road? Okay, So when you start
the band, you're twenty eight and Brett you are okay, Okay,
what are you thinking? Then? I'm thinking that we're going
to be the greatest rock and roll band. All right,
So you're delusional, but okay, what do you think it delusion?

(19:40):
You have to be delusional, but a lot of people
are not delusional from the get go, and you be
fud shedding a little bit, Jay, what are you thinking? Uh?
I would rather go home and paint houses than not
strive to be the greatest rock and roll band on earth,
as soon as you don't want to wake up and
be the best and just go home. Okay. So now
you have the model because it tragically hip or from Kingston.

(20:01):
But once you form a Gloria's Sons, what is the
next step? Uh? Well, Brett literally he wasn't even the singer.
He was the tambourine player. At first. He would just
jump up and but we play who was a singer?
And I sang and Andrew sing and but we noticed
that Brett playing the tambourine was much more engaging than

(20:24):
anything else on stage. So we started giving him more tasks.
So then he played piano, and then he started singing,
and then we started writing and then you know how
long did that whole process take a couple of months?
Like by the time we put out our first record,
our producer was like, this guy needs to be singing

(20:44):
all the songs. Okay, a little bit slower. You now
have the band there now called the Glorious Sons. Brett
starts out on the tambourine. How long before he becomes
the singer? H yeah, probably like like full time singers. Okay,
in that two years, when do you make the first
record throughout the whole time recorded or recorded? Probably a

(21:08):
year and a half. Okay, in that year and a half,
are you are you playing live constantly? Where four times
a week in Kingston, Ontario? I mean, can you make
anybody playing four times a week? You know, we didn't
make any money, Like we made enough barely to cover
the bar tap. I remember being like getting paid, giving
it all back to the bartender and him being like,

(21:29):
give me your credit card because you got paid for
these assholes. They were just And then how many of
the songs did you play were originals? All of them? Yeah,
So when we started this band, that was the thing.
We're playing our own music right from the get go.
That was there was too many Like growing up in
a small town, a lot of the live entertainment is

(21:51):
cover bands, right because you know, they know they'll they'll
get paid and you know they can make a better
living and it's more of a hobbyists kind of mentality.
But it you know, we kind of I didn't want
to do that. We wanted to be we want to
be Okay, so you're playing, you know, playing in Kingston
for bar money and what what's the next step from there? Well,

(22:12):
then we just started getting any gig we could in
like Toronto, Ottawa. Who's getting these gigs? H Yeah. My
girlfriend at the time was even like calling places like
you know, it's like all hands on deck, whatever it takes.
Kind of men. You didn't have any agent, you didn't
have a manager of them. Okay, so you start playing Toronto,

(22:34):
you play Ottawa, any acclaim or you just go and
that's it. Usually when we played, first of all, we
like to have fun party, so our friends would come
out and we didn't suck, so everyone had a good
time and they get hammered with us, we'd get hammered them,
and all of a sudden, you know, he's slowly this

(22:54):
thing starts happening like one group of people at a time.
And Okay, what came first, the community or the recording?
The community? Okay, And so you're living in Canada. I'm
somewhat sophisticated with Canada. There's a lot of government money,
there's a lot there's a lot of people playing music.

(23:15):
But you know, it's much easier to get ahold of
the professionals, not as big a country in terms of
music business. Are you trying to get a manager? Are
you trying to get an agent? We literally have no
fucking clue what we're doing at this point. We don't
even our producer of our first album, John Angus McDonald
from the Jersey as a guitar player, saw our band
and asked us if you could produce a few songs

(23:37):
for us, and I was like, sure, what does that mean?
I didn't have a clue. Like so this was like
a year and a half into the Glorious Okay, so
he records those songs where uh, we did it in Newmarket,
which is north of Toronto, about an hour. Okay, how
many songs six and then how long until they were released?

(23:57):
I don't remember we did it in the winter. I
think we we released Mama in this summer in the summer, Okay,
So what happened when you released it and blew up? Yeah,
it's like one small little like uh like there's all
these like small little radio stations in Canada, so like

(24:18):
one small town at a time kept adding the song,
and our hometown added it, and we had support from
this station, Hits FM, and all of a sudden took
like this huge cyclical thing and all of a sudden
it's on the charts and we're driving around and it's
getting played. Okay, but usually it takes a relationship to

(24:39):
get on the radio. The two of you were doing
it yourself or you had somebody involved. Well, I would
I would say that we had a relationship in our producer,
John Angis, who like, honestly, we would not be anywhere
without him because he was already like uh, I don't
want to say famous, but a very well known guitar
player in a great Canadian band. And you know, I

(25:01):
think the traction of him producing the song just for
the bio audience that band was the truth I think
I think that we probably you know, uh had a
leg up because he produced our song. So he whatever,
his company was, whatever, he was the one. He was
the one responsible for getting into radio. We did have

(25:23):
a very low level manager at the time. Um too,
so rude, that's not rude, referring to garage manager. UM.
So he was like, you know, we paid someone to
take the song to radio, and okay, but who was that?

(25:43):
Who was what the person that took it to radio?
It was? It was RPM? It was it was an RPM?
Was it? Who was it was? Kim? Was Kim? Yeah?
And she did a great job. She did. Okay, so
now song mom is on the radio. One thing I
will say is I just gotta correct you here. He's
not a low level manager. We were the first band

(26:04):
he ever managed, So he just he's a garage man
to do it. I'm not throwing stones. I'm just no, no, no,
I didn't think it was to put down there. Most
bands usually have somebody they start with and then they're
not that world occasionally and someone grows into the role.
So the record as he hit many markets, what happens
after that? We play a show with a band in

(26:26):
Canada had a number one song. Who's actually on tour
with us right now ahead of the herd Um then
the number one song in the country, and it did
blow up like crazy in Canada, and they asked us
to play a show in Toronto at the Drake Hotel
and we went and played it um and after that

(26:47):
they asked us to come on tour. And how many
dates were in that tour? What about your day jobs? Quick?
Quit them immediately and there was enough money going on
the road. We were there was we were I don't
even really know how we stayed afloat merch Mama money.

(27:08):
We got mama money from the from the song merchandise.
You always find a way, okay, if you were struggling.
I didn't feel struggling. I didn't feel like I struggled
at all. I was living with two guys at that
time and like this like house that was completely garbage,
But I never felt like I was, you know, having trouble.

(27:29):
We had one rule and that was whoever got paid.
I had to buy the weed in the booze and
we would we would drink like a two four every night.
So we were we were doing okay. Okay. The other
thing it is Canada with a strong safety net. Are
you taking any money from the government at that point? Zero? Okay,
wait a minute, I was getting unemployment talking about music. No, no, no,

(27:50):
I'm talking about unemployment. That's what I'm talking about. I
was getting unemployment and anything else or that. You're getting unemployment.
Everybody else in the band getting unemployment. A few members
definitely were like, you're living on unemployment. Packer worked at
the Township and Loyallest Township, and I mean, that's a
really good job. So he had a bunch of money saved.

(28:11):
Mamba worked with Jay and was a plumber, and he's
always been really good with money. So I don't know,
maybe he had some money put away. J put all
of his money into the band. Okay, but in Canada,
let's assume you how long were you on unemployment for? Oh,
I don't know, off and on for you know, when
I was working with J, I couldn't claim unemployment. So

(28:33):
and Jay also did odd jobs in between shows and stuff,
and he would hire me and younger the bandmates to
work with him. Okay, so you go on the you
go on the road with a band, you play the
twenty dates. Where does that leave you um so I
think midway through that tour, we were coming back through
Toronto and yeah, so I think before the Horseshoe Tavern date, Um, Jason,

(29:00):
someone from your office called us. It was yes, okay,
James tell us the story. So we uh Ian the
office brings uh ep the EP from said manager who
was working with them before. Great great kid brings it.
You should listen to this. So we listened to it

(29:22):
and Mama, they say it was a hit, but it
wasn't a hit at that point yet. It was um
it was just starting and we were looking at it.
Of Okay, is that all the band is his first? Mama,
so get the EP and I think song five on
the EP is called Shapeless Art and it is not

(29:44):
structured like a pop song. Um. But the second we
heard that there was a voice and a person in
there that were telling these stories that we had to
learn about, like I can't. It was the furthest thing
from a single, but it showed depth in a way
that um, I think a rock band, especially coming from Canada,

(30:06):
has a tough time doing. So we hear that they
you guys are on your way on tour. Uh stop
by the stop by the office, have us sit down,
and I'll never forget it. You guys walk in. Brett
sits across from me, doesn't say one word. I feel
like I'm at a job interview with Jay and with

(30:27):
piercing the eyes and um, the complexity of the room
was different. I can't I can't explain it, um, And
I know it sounds corny, but it's it's a reality.
So we have this conversation about where we go and
what we're gonna do. And they had this song on
the record, White Noise, which we thought would be a
great single, but we thought maybe you need a little mixed,

(30:49):
needed some work before we do it in a strategy.
And we had this great conversation that was it, um.
And we leave and I remember Brett comes back into
use the bathroom. Uh and uh. I was like, man,
how do you think that was? Like? I think ever
been pretty good? He's like, so are we gonna do this?
And then they get in there, they literally they get
and I'm like, no, we gotta come see our band

(31:11):
tonight because if the band is not great live, we
we just won't do it. So we go that night
and I remember it's a snowstorm and we show up Horseshoe.
You guys were supporting head of the Herd. We show up,
We go on. At this point, they are touring in
a converted short bus um with blacked out windows and

(31:32):
the inside looks like the dungiest bar you've ever been
to and smells like an ashtrike. And this is on
a Tuesday or Wednesday in Toronto. Uh. So we go
in and I was like, well, this is I hope
it's great, but you never know if it's not great.
So we go in, we have drinks, their mom and
dad and everybody's in and in, and I go to

(31:53):
the front of the stage and they come on and
I was like, this is going to be horrible, and
I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. So Brett
as the front man, has a keyboard not facing the audience,

(32:17):
horizontal or vertical to the to the stage singing like this,
singing sideways to the crowd. It was the most bizarre
stage set up I've ever seen. With the tambourine. At
the time, I was like, this is gonna be horrible.
So disappointed. And I think you started with ruby and

(32:37):
the first note of the first song. I looked at
the end and we're like, holy shit, and it would.
It gives me the hair standing up on my rooms
talking about it because you could see what it could be. UM.
And I remember that night. I was like, we like,

(32:57):
we can't let them go out on tour with like,
we need to figure out a way to do this
before the world sees what we see. And you know what,
nine years later, I still think that the world doesn't
see what we see, but we that night, I remember
sitting with mom and dad of all the boys, and
there was this real sense of community of people that
were there that had come in to see them, and

(33:18):
we're drinking copious amounts of tequila packers. Dad kissed me
about four times. UM. But one of the things that
resonated with me is they cared and we talked about
the tour and the safety and taking care of their boys. UM.
And I feel like that in that moment, whether we
were able to sign them or not, something was going

(33:42):
to happen, whether we were involved or not. And then
they go out on tour and I get a phone call.
They're driving from thunder Bay to Winnipeg on that same tour.
It is and it's in and we're talking minus thirty
degrees celsius weather were from medicine. Oh yeah, even worse,
worse even get a call and the this party bus

(34:05):
they're traveling on has broken down and nobody and manager
doesn't call us. Nobody calls us, and I find out
through mom or dad maybe I don't know. We did
four two or dates. We so we were in the
middle of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere, the school
bus breaks down and it's not it's not going anywhere.

(34:26):
So our other brother on the time was on the
road with us doing film and hanging out and just
helping out. And anyway he could him and I go
two hour hitchhike rent haul because that's the only thing
we could get. Drive back two hours, pick the boys up,
unload all the sleeping bags and the and the mattresses

(34:48):
from the school bus into the back of the U haul,
hopping the front seat, two guys in the front seat,
five guys in the back, windows, shut the door, eight
hour drive, comple pitch black. And we did four tour
dates like that and in the minus thirty and nobody
called and nobody called for help. And when we found

(35:08):
out about it, I was like, they're gonna win no
matter what they do, because they just continue to work.
So we got the plane tickets because I figured that
would probably go a long way in this conversation along UM,
and we flew them in and got took care of
all the travel pieces. Thunderah yeah, and then we started

(35:36):
with we launched. We stopped everything that was in motion
in terms of what the plan was going to be,
and pushed pause and remixed the next single, brought it
all out and that January it became the first number
one because I don't think momb it was number two

(35:57):
UM and never stop often. But that sentiment of the
work ethic and UM not taking anything for granted and
not complaining UM without a shadow with doubt is the
driving force between behind where the band is today. Okay,
when you find the band, what are you literally doing, Jason?

(36:20):
I have well Ian who runs the label with me
partners from the beginning by default producer to managing his band,
started a label, had some success, didn't plan, had to
reimagine what that is, but had been managing this Canadian
hip hop act that the year we signed, the Glorious

(36:41):
Suns went on to sell a million singles in Canada
at classified White hip hop act who broke had his
breakout at thirty eight years old. Put that in perspective, unbelievable.
One of the from a very small town still to
this day lives in a town of six hundred on

(37:01):
east coast of Canada. So that gave us at least
something to talk about. And I've learned so much um
through that process. And I love rock and roll. My
first record was Hot Rocks. So when you hear something
that speaks to you as a fan and then you
can actually apply the skill set that you don't even

(37:22):
realize is the skill set, it's like arts and craft
day every day, and you just you continue. So we
were doing that. We really didn't have any money when
we signed the band, and we probably beg board and
steal to get the radio campaign up and the remix
and make a video. And I think the I think
the bar tab and the damages from that video was

(37:45):
a substantial enough line item that almost choked on my
coffee when I got it. That was a fun video, yeah,
but we set it in motion and so all those
pieces leading up to that day, I really prepared us
um too. When we found somebody that worked as hard
as as we did. Okay. So how old were you

(38:07):
at that point, thirty four and you've been in the
music business. I similar. I didn't even know this story,
but you were, but very similar. I dropped out of
university making records strout high school for beer money. Um
in Canada, there's no there wasn't an infrastructure where you

(38:29):
there was a direct path to working in the music business.
So I'd record my band in high school so you
had your own Yeah, horrible, But we would press cassettes
and I would pay the guy in the cafeteria to
play it. Then I'd go sell the cassettes. I didn't
think it was a business, and it was just what

(38:49):
we loved and we would play on the weekends. We
do all that sort of stuff and come into university
and of high school it's like, okay, time to grow up.
You go to university because that's what everybody else does.
Go to univer the city and kept making records for
other people and realizing not the guy who should be
in the band, what are you laughing at? It must

(39:12):
have been hard, but so but I have the same
moment where I'm three years in the university, working at
a hospital and kidney dialysis think thinking I'm preparing for
MCATs and dropped out of school and I came home
and told my parents I think my mom. It was

(39:34):
probably like almost three months of silence, and the silence
got broken. My wife today was dancing with my father
at a wedding. He said, I don't care what he does.
If he's going to dig a ditch, dig it better
to the guy to the right and the guy to
the left. And it was this really empowering thing to
break free of these chains that really are self imposed,
because as a parent you don't really have those. But

(39:57):
they're like, what does the music business mean? I'm like,
I have no idea, and they're like, where are you
going to go? I have no idea? And so I
got a bartending job and going into the Long Weekend,
I had put an application into a renowned studio outside
of Toronto called Metalworks, right, Gili More, Yeah, So and
I was like, well, if I can get in there,

(40:17):
I will work harder than anybody else. And so I
put an application. They called me on Thursday, going to
the Long weekend and they're like, we have an intern
that's not showing up this weekend. Long weekends are a
big thing in Canada. Everybody wants to go. Would you
like to come in or not? We can't tell you
what you're gonna work on. Like absolutely going to my restaurant.
I'm there maybe a month. Like if you don't let

(40:40):
me do this, I gotta quit. He has like, fine,
go and do it. First day, first session, rush vapor trails.
Really and you're doing what you're get t not even
I don't even know how to wind a cable at
that point. And some there as an assistant to an
assistant to an assistant, cleaning bathrooms and doing all that

(41:01):
sort of stuff. But being that close to magic, it's intoxicating.
And so I would do forty to fifty hours a
week there, close the bar, go back and forth, make
no money, but you're in the action. You're where it's created.
I got to watch um Eddie Kramer do Festival Express.

(41:24):
I got to just got to be in Chicago. I
didn't know what I was doing, but the longer I
was there, I realized I didn't want to be an engineer.
Um that's to me, that felt like accounting work. I
guess it's not where the magic lies. In my opinion. Um,
So stay there for two years outgrew that um in

(41:45):
that window. Met Ian, through his girlfriend at the time,
worked at the restaurant with us, and he was in
a double time punk rock band that I thought was amazing.
And this is the era of like fat Records, and
I knew nothing about punk rock like zero, but I
was like, holy shit, they're touring. This is great, Like

(42:05):
I need to sign this ban Um. I go to rehearsal.
They the only one that gave me time, Whizzy and
everybody else didn't trust me. So we go and I
was like, Okay, well are going to do europ Um.
I will find the money to do it. And the
first conversation was, well, what do you think about slowing
down the drums for a double time punk rock band?

(42:26):
It did not help my cause in trying to influence
anything and making that record, so I ultimately and ended
up engineering that record with the band, and I remember
got a lawyer signed a management deal with them on Thursday,
and I was in a twelve passenger van traveling East
coast Canada in the dead of winter with these punk

(42:50):
rock kids playing basement shows and it was eye opening
and it was exciting, and at the time I felt
like I had won the lottery and every read and
there was zero money, but I mean zero, like it
was a very expensive hobby. But you're in the action,
and so you go and you do that and come
back and Ian still partner to this day, and Yng

(43:15):
to the Yang. We couldn't get a record deal, and
I think this is where the management thing really solidified.
For better for worse. I'm a very strong advocate for
people I believe in, and I am willing to self
sacrifice in the pursuit of that, for better or for worse.
It doesn't always work in my favor, but if that's

(43:35):
all that's left behind him, happy about that. And so
we're out shopping this band that I saw this potential
on that I loved that the record deals were bullshit
and no money, and I knew radio wasn't gonna play
this band, and I knew the only way they're going
to sell records is getting on tour and playing these places,
and and so Ian and I decided that we were

(43:56):
both going to put in three thousand dollars and start
Black Box, which is the record they will be signed
the guys too, And we created a culture with every
band we signed that released Number one, your job is
to recoup so we can make another record, and that
was the culture with every band that we signed, So
there was a moral obligation taking care of your own
ship to make sure the next artist that came up
could have this thing. So that's what started that whole process.

(44:20):
But in that moment, the way Brett was talking about
his brother and when people were chirping his brother's band,
I think at the core of all of this is
that advocacy for things that you love that the world
doesn't necessarily see through your lens. That is so clear
to you, and I think that was the birth of

(44:41):
what you and I do as management. Um. I can't
imagine the ship Jason took for managing our band, and
we started out okay, so you manage it. But they
already have the track mom I was blowing up. You
remix the other one that's blowing up? And is it
a continuous no? No? Yeah, absolutely hard to remember those details.

(45:03):
I can totally do because I wear those scars. Um.
I think so the thing with Mama Mama at Arms
Reach feels very one dimensional, and you're coming from a
city that people say there's something in the water, whether
it's headstones, whether it's the hip, there's something there, um,

(45:28):
And you're trying to carve your own path on the
merit of this band, this songwriter, specifically the dynamic of
these two gentlemen, but more importantly the true art. It's
like taking coal and grinding it down. There's a diamond there,
and I feel like I'm the only one who could
see it in a way that nobody else could. So

(45:50):
now you have to go convince people to see it
the way you see it before it's actually there for everybody. Um.
And when I say every moment was a fight or
uncool band, nothing's going to happen. Never gonna break it radio,
never gonna break it, alternative radio, never gonna sell a ticket.

(46:13):
Literally every day that was And I got so sick
and tired of that too. Yeah, of course, like I
felt like we were up against people's perceptions constantly, and
I didn't think they knew who we were. Absolutely, And
so we we make this video for and it was
more money we'd ever spent on a video, which was
how much that's a lot of money. How much of

(46:36):
that money is from the government. That one ten thousand
was from the goverment where you get the other two
you'd saved it from. I'm telling you the yeah, the
Diceinus of that period, But I figured he never told
us it was nice either that time, No, nor my wife.
But I gotta ask, was your wife the same person

(46:57):
your father had the conversation? Yes, yeah, she stood by
it still to this day. UM. Key to the success
to be all the way honest. So we make this
video and I'm like, I want I want the band
to try. I want the world to see the band
how we see the band, because it will help me
tell the story that I think we need to tell.
And I think we did it um. But at that time,

(47:19):
so we were the label. We weren't the manager at
that time. So I still have the garage, yes, but
very much advocating as if we are the manager. Um yeah.
And so but once I realized that it was going
to take more than what was happening around it, and
if I was going to die on this sort, I
I thought it was important to be the one driving

(47:42):
it um. And so in that period you start to
see these things that you're telling people and then it's
not being echoed or reflected in the same way, and
that confusion when you're trying to change people's perception, it's
very difficult to the over all goal. And I think
we we had a conversation about where we were pushing,

(48:04):
how we wanted to push, what was important UM and
the band made a decision that we should probably step
in and help them in a in a deeper level
and to be all the way on us. Nothing changed
in terms of how we worked with the band as
a record label at that point. Nothing changed. Okay, but
obviously got rid of the garage manager. What did he say? Well,

(48:27):
there was there's some details that we can't really but
you know what it was. It was okay, did he
get paid when he left? Well, well that that you
go down that No, it was it was pretty quiet. Yeah,
it wasn't a bad thing. And to be honest, stuff, Yeah,
he's doing great stuff. The band was. He'll tell you
to this day that the it just was moving too fast.

(48:51):
And you know, we invited him to come be a
part of our shop to try to mentor and because
I know how loyal these guys are to a flaw
and I didn't want to be the guy to put
a wedge, but that didn't work out. And if I
was only going to do one thing in my entire career,
was going to break this band like there was. It

(49:11):
was so clear to me. And so when you're willing
to do that, UM, those decisions may seem difficult to
everybody else, but they're very easy two at least to
me in that time. So we do that, you know,
take over the whole operation, piece it together, huh, start
touring with more strategy. We we go from uh that

(49:34):
into what will be our first number one with the union.
UM No sorry, so so EP back it up, so
EP two. Now we got to make an album, and
so we have this EP and we've got the song
White Noise peeking at number two, and we're making a record,
UM for a band. And it's interesting when Brett joined

(49:58):
his brother's band and during the making of that record, UM,
it was still a jump all of whose band it
was UM and and not just between the two of
them with the other guitar player, where everybody is really polite, passive,
aggressive in this band at times UM. And so it's yeah,

(50:19):
and now we just get ready to it. But it's
it's all these things where everyone's not trying to step
on anybody's toast. And so we go into this church,
we make this record with John Angus and finish that record.
First single comes out, the band goes out for sixty
shows to support tours, one with Airborne, one with the

(50:41):
trus that we I mean it probably cost us sixty Yeah,
So we went out and we did that, and we
come back and the first tour we do on our
headline in Canada, coming out of that book by Ian
director Venue no promoter. We sell it out. Okay, you
the records. Now, are you making any money on the record? No,

(51:03):
because they're not making money, So how do we fund
the touring? So there is no money, but you can
start to see real people connecting to something that speaks
to them the way the way it spoke to me
in a way that it was very much underground, even
though radio was playing it because rock radio historically does

(51:23):
not translate to record sales, certainly not in the modern era. No. So,
but we were seeing the growth and people were passionate
and they felt like they would get something every night
that maybe the last time. And it was very reckless
and not always the greatest, but always the most honest,
and so we would go at and do that, and

(51:43):
so we sell it this tour Toronto, we sell nine
tickets in advance at the Opera House. Remember no promoter.
Ian and I paid for the promotion of that tour,
like market, thousand dollars market. He did the whole routing,
he did the advancing, we did the merch. There was
literally fully independent. I'm like, holy shit, we that felt

(52:08):
like the first real validation. Um you guys, probably I
felt I felt validated every night, you know. Yeah, but
you're a twenty one year old kid. Um yeah, every rocket.
It's interesting to hear it from another perspective because, okay,
so you promote your own towards successful Yeah them? What uh? Them?

(52:30):
What is the whole kind? I start getting a reputation
of being the guy. Have you met Jason, Oh you haven't.
He'll tell you Glad sounds gonna be the biggest band
in the world at some point. He's delusional too. Yeah,
literally that that is the context around everything. And everybody
told me your bands not cool, they'll never break it.

(52:51):
Alternative and it would just it would make me so
angry that it became the north star of everything, which
which upsets me because I honestly I don't like what
is alternative music. I mean the whole thing. It's like,
we're a rock and roll band that plays our own instruments.
But I don't think you can kind of pigeonhole us

(53:12):
into anything. We've We've always had an extremely eclectic catalog. Okay,
let's let's kind of go fast and then get to
that point. So now you're having success, At what point
do you woke up with Nick so quick? So we
go from that record too. I know, if we make
the Union two point oh, the band is never bigger

(53:33):
than where we didn't want to do that anyways. Um
So Brett and the guys trying to make a record
two or three times, and I had this. I don't
know if I've told them so. This is not like
can make them angry or happy. I figured there's no
ego in finding the right decision. And so if they
are going to go out and try to make this
record on their own, they're either going to deliver something

(53:54):
that is stunning or they are going to be so
frustrated in their pursuit that they're going to throw up
the white flag. Can say, okay, so now what do
you want to do? And I think we did that
over but six months of them banging their head against
the wall three tries, three tries. It was in l
a Um meeting with a new gentleman at BMG, Jamie

(54:14):
Neely on the publishing side, and he's like, I got this.
I'm like, I'm trying to make this record for this band,
Glory's Sunds. I can't. I can. I need to hear.
I can explain it to you, but I haven't heard
what I need to hear. So he's like, let me
play this thing from this. He's like, I got this
Danish producer, songwriter and a couple of guys that and
he played me one song and I was like, we're

(54:35):
making that. They're making the record, and I called you
in and I'm like, I found it. Now. This is
a band that the way they historically made a record
to how that record is very different. And so I
seeded the demo to them individually, Hey what do you
think of this? Like do you like the vibe of this?
And everybody came back, Oh, this is fucking great. Oh yeah,

(54:56):
I would love to work with them, not knowing what
that meant, but I was just like one, like, so
come back three months later and I was like guys
go to l A, sit with this team, give me
a week, see what comes. Um. We go out first
night in l A with the producers. The band drinks
probably four pictures of Margarita's j Emmons and jam and

(55:19):
Fashion looks across at the producer and says, so, what's
the fucking plan? What are we here for? I remember,
and I'm like, oh man, these guys like all that
kind of just like Frederick tom Ryan, I'm kind of
like look like deer in the headlights. It was everybody. Yeah,
everybody was so frustrated. But we tried. Don't forget. We

(55:42):
tried to make a record three times before we got here,
So like, did you did you know that it wasn't
working or only Jason told you? We all know it
wasn't working because it would take us, like, you know,
five days to do two songs, and and we'd come
out of it and there's just isn't something like we
want to take a step, like that's what we want

(56:03):
to do. We want to challenge ourselves creatively, change change
the game. But every time we went in, we we
kind of came out with the same. Yeah, so we
go to l A. We knew what we wanted, but
we didn't know what it looked like. And you could
see that, so I knew they wouldn't. I knew the
one thing with Brett when it comes to that sort
of stuff, He's unwilling to compromise, compromise the pursuit of

(56:25):
what's great, and so we do that. That night we
end up at the Rainbow Room, and I knew we
were going to be okay when Brett said to the producer,
just I'm not here to tell you what I want
to do. You just I'll give you a week and
you you paint the picture with me on what we
need to do. We were there to get help, but
we needed help more than any at any point in

(56:47):
our career. We needed help at that moment, and we
made We made that record, which was the last record,
which getting to how we met Neck Days fifteen days
and in the Crazy Party. You should have seen how
confused we were going in there, though, I honest I
didn't know if I'd ever be a musician again. And
to come out after fifteen days and have ten songs
actually that you loved, it was like the greatest feeling

(57:10):
of all time, and and it was loaded with hits
and I knew, I swear to God and I knew,
and I knew in that moment that this I was
going to be able to convince people to support to
get that number one at alternative Radio. And we got
it on the first single of that record. So fast
forward relationships with BMG, Ian and I come in. We

(57:34):
operate BMG as the Canadian operation for a couple of years.
Part of that, dan Gil dan Cohen who ran Vagrant,
came up to meet us in the office and we
played them Josie off of the record and like we
should sign this band. I was like, Wow, that was easy.
This is wonderful. Um so, And in that intern dan
Gil sends it to Nick Attaway. I have no idea

(57:55):
who Nick Ataway is. From that day till almost still today,
I get a Nick out of way call at eight
o'clock in the morning. I don't know this guy, no
deal memo, no nothing. He's called me. He's like, we're
gonna do the deal, right you can. I'm like, I
don't even have ever even talked to a lawyer. He's like,
he's like, I played it for this person. I played
it for this person. Holy ship, this is the greatest record.
I called Dan, I'm like, who's Nick? Like, there was

(58:17):
no formal introduction. That was how I met Nick Nick Attaway,
and he's like, this is it. This is gonna be amazing.
Holy sh it, I can't believe you deliver this is
this is unbelievable. I love this band, Let's do it.
So it's like, well, we're gonna do it then, and
the deal became secondary because at that point I couldn't
pull out of it would have been really bad. But

(58:39):
that exciting, that excitement is great, and that I've learned
is more valuable than anything else. Um, And so we
go with Everything's already goes to number one in Canada
and Nick goes to goes to it with alternative Radio,
and we say, the band's ability to say yes is
why we're here today. They said yes to everything. We
never ever looked at a budget, we never looked at

(59:01):
the guarantee, we never it was yes, and we were
all collectively digging ourselves into this enormous hole but didn't
give a ship. And so Nix's out there and he's
getting this thing and getting this thing, and we die
on the vine. Five months into Everything's all right. The
first single on our BMG release, Dead Done, Budgets Gone.

(59:22):
But we were like that's what I mean, the very
first treating us who I have to tell the story
when I met Nick, So I don't know where we were,
and we were and this guy comes on the bus
and like literally like it's like a freaking bull in

(59:44):
a china shop, just like you might as well have
kicked the door open. And he's coming in. He's like, yeah,
like this that was great, but you should have played
more new stuff. And then he and then he starts
like talking and he's like for like three hours at night,
I heard like every conspiracy theory on the map, like
everything everything that Nick is. He was in that first

(01:00:04):
three hours of the medium. Okay, Nick, you're a story.
You're from where uh born and raised in Philadelphia. Okay,
how do you how do you ultimately get to b MG.
I was going to University of Pennsylvania. I wanted to
be in the music industry. I was bartender, went to Penny.

(01:00:29):
I was bartender at three rock clubs, paying my way
through school. I was interning at the radio station UH,
intern for Epic Records, and interned for m c A
UH and then I got UM and I really wanted
to get the music business because I in Philadelphia that
there was no real radio station playing new music, and

(01:00:50):
w MMR was the only station, but it was classic rock.
So I would see all these amazing bands that I
never heard of play in front of very small crowds
and just become huge. And I wanted to be part
of that. And this is how old are you and
what you're it was. I was twenty one, and it
was nineteen ninety one, and I graduated at the age

(01:01:11):
of twenty six and ninety six. I was on the
six year college plan because I wasn't smart enough to
go to Penn. I kind of conned my way in
and uh, so it took me a while and uh
and then I went to uh got my first job
in l A doing college promotion at m c A,
the National Triple A and West Coast Rock Alternative. And

(01:01:31):
I went to Arista. UH and then I went to
go work for Corner CAPH had Red Light Management to
head up promotion there in their early days and UM
and then went to Vagrant and then BMG bought Vagrant
and became the head of promotion there and now I
oversee the rock Alternative and Triple A. So that's how

(01:01:52):
I got to where I am on on this. And
you know, when I first heard the music, my boss said,
you should hear this Glorious Son's it's really good. And Dan,
my boss is very critical. He doesn't say things are
very good very often. So I'm like, holy ship. And
then I heard it and I'm like, oh my god,
every song is great. And to this day I'll tell everyone.

(01:02:13):
You know, they'll be like, what songs should I hear?
What's good? And I'm just like, pick any song. They're
all great. There's not one bad song, and any of
their stuff we took everything is all right because we're
we were thinking alternative, alternative, alternative, and we had you know,
we got like a bunch of really good stations. But
you know, it was over a six month period and
and I think we got into the thirties, but you know,

(01:02:36):
it didn't take off. Meanwhile, I was going to a
lot of their shows. The first shows that I went
to they were opening up for Greata Van Fleet. The
one thing I noticed was is that when they went on,
if you just walked into the club and saw them
on stage, you would have thought they were the headliner.
Everyone that was there was there to see Greta, and
when they saw the Glorious Sons, they freaked out and I,

(01:02:59):
you know, and uh, And I was like, that's another
sign because having bar attended in rock clubs for six years,
you see how most opening bands get treated, you know,
by the audience of the headliner, which is never usually
that good. And I also noticed that the song sought
off shotgun s O s. It was getting this like
major reaction and people were able to sing along to

(01:03:21):
that song even if they had never heard it before,
and it was really connecting it. And then we were
having this talk about it being a radio single and
the biggest problem in America is you know, lyrics. You
got one lyric that could offend one person out of
a thousand, It could just fuck you at radio. And
I said, you know, guys, you know we're a land

(01:03:42):
of hypocrisy and school shootings and all this stuff, and
even though the song doesn't advocate violence in any way,
there could be issues. But then we realized that it
was so good, so good of a song, that we
should take that chance. And then right when we were
thinking going to go for it, the Parkland shooting happened,

(01:04:03):
and I said, we got we gotta put the brakes
on this, and just you know, waited out because the
one thing Americans do is they forget very quickly. So
it's not off the table forever, it's just off the
table until you was in a real important part of this.
He's not giving himself enough credit. He the start of
s OS at radio um, there was no budget left,

(01:04:26):
and he went on his own to find one champion
at a time to bring back to the table, to
go to the label to open up budget. At this point,
we are nine months removed from the record coming out,
eight months probably in that window, no mudget, No nobody's
reinvesting in a record nine months, like it's just not happening.

(01:04:46):
And while this story, well this is happening. He's going
out and champion and on the back of the band
playing all those radio shows, not getting the single, but
all the promoters and all the show for like this
is a real fucking rock and roll band. So they
bought into the band even though the song didn't get there.
So we built up this good will. And Nick, I'm

(01:05:08):
telling you, if he did not become proactive, and I
don't know if it was from me screaming at him
or or our collective love of the band. Um, he
went out and one at a time converted top down
radio folks on on this band without asking for a
dollar and going to the label to get money. And

(01:05:30):
because I think that's a super important part of this. Well,
the thing is is that you know, you work at
a record label and you see where a lot of
money gets spent, and when you see I think it's
really important that you invest in potential. It's great when
you sign a big band that has a big history. Um,
they may continue to have great success, but it's really
important to invest in potential and that and that's what

(01:05:52):
these guys have and they are one of my top
five favorite bands of all time, my favorite band that
I've ever worked in my career doing radio emotions since
ninety six, and I've worked with a lot of great bands,
and you know, with a lot of great music, and
you know, and the in the record, you know, I
wanted to make sure I said, all right, we're gonna
take s OS to rock radio because you know, alternative

(01:06:15):
radio is having an identity crisis. An alternative radio more
and more cares more about stream totals than music, and
they're also thinking about crossing over to pop. Alternative radio
used to be strictly about you know, they were like
like the the goth kids in school, and the god
kids would be god kids. But now a lot of

(01:06:35):
alternative programmers want that god kid to be like a cheerleader,
you know, or a football player, and they can't accept
the fact that they are who they are. So alternative
radio is having this a danti crisis. They all they
wanted to streams. I said, at least rock radio. A
lot of those guys, if they hear a hit, they'll there,
They'll still say, I'm going to play that. And so
we got and I said, but I'm not gonna start

(01:06:57):
with super small stations. I'm not gonna be doing promotions
turn tricks. I want to get real stations and to
lead the way top down on a baby band. And
we did that, and you know, we were on We
were on the charts for like forty some weeks by
the by the time we got to January, the first

(01:07:17):
week of January of two thousand nineteen, we went number one.
After like sixteen sixteen weeks removed, yeah, sixteen months removed
from the record coming over. Yeah, and it was like
we were on the chart for like, I don't know,
like six months, and then we go into January at
number one, and then I found out that we were
the most played song at Active Rock for two thousand

(01:07:41):
nineteen on you know, via media base. It was the
number one rock record of two thousand nineteen, which was amazing,
you know for an unsigned band, and and that you know,
that really helped him and the airplay really translated into
streams and we were able to see that go up
and up and up. Then we try to cross over
alternative and we were picking up a lot of stations.

(01:08:03):
Now we were top thirty at Alternative for twenty seven weeks,
which was great, and we peaked at twenty three, but
and it was higher than Great Event Fleet or you know,
Shine Down or Bad Flour, all these rock bands trying
to cross over. And it was over a six month period,
and we did get K Rock to add the record,

(01:08:23):
uh and KQUX in Chicago. But right around that point,
the station's that Alternative that had played at a thousand
times were like it was a huge hit for us.
It was great, but we got it. We're done. And
then as soon as you lose your bullet, people are like, oh,
you guess it's done. You know, Okay, let's go to today.
So where is the band from your perspective today, Nick, Well,

(01:08:48):
you know, the one thing that I always say is
that this is a career band. And I always tell
you know bands. I said, look, you know, having that
hit single, that hit record at radio, you know, that's
winning the lottery. That's a shot in the arm, that's
the nitrous in in the gas tank. You know. But
at the end of the day, every spin, every added
or radio station should be looked upon as like, oh god,

(01:09:09):
you know, it's not about getting that hit. It's about
moving the ball forward. It's about being able to sell
those extra tickets. It's about turning on an extra fan.
You know. This is a band that you know, when
you see one hit Wonders, you know, the the label
like owns that band, you know, because they've got nothing else.
You know, this is a band that has, unlike most

(01:09:31):
Canadian bands, have put in the blood, sweat and tears
to break in the US. People say rock bands from
Canada can't break here. Well, that's because if they're huge
in Canada, a lot of times they don't want to
spend all that money and time, you know, starting over
from scratch, but these guys do. And they're the biggest
rock band in Canada, playing huge arenas, what fifteen thousand
in Toronto. But that they will always They'll be on

(01:09:52):
the road, they will always have an audience. It will
keep growing. Their fans are insane, uh in such a
great way u um and um. And they really truly
connect emotionally, you know. And that's the thing you mostly,
you know, a hit is a big hook, but it
has to emotionally connect and we see that connection on

(01:10:13):
the live level. And I think, you know, we're at
the band's first We put up our first arena show
in Toronto a year and a half ago, and the
whispers were they are fucking crazy. No, like I mean
like this isn't like we were getting laughed at all
like this. You don't go from doing a couple of

(01:10:35):
club dates at the beginning of the record cycled to this.
At the end of the record cycle. We actually got
told I wanted this but another band by a member
of another band. Um. We were talking about the arena
show and he said, you skipped a step, um, And
so we we go out and remember no press at
this point. Um, we are not a darling of anybody.

(01:10:58):
And we go out and we do the show and
it's it's magical. And the manager, the last manager of
the hip guy from Kingston, Bernie Breen, was there. So
Bernie takes Ian and I side side stage at that show.
And the one thing about that show that validated everything
we've believed into this day is from song one to

(01:11:21):
song twenty eight or whatever we played that night, people
sang every word. I don't mean the radio records, I
mean songs that we've never released all the way through.
And Bernie took En and I side and put his
out around us and he's like, just stop for a second.
It's like I've seen this once before, and he's just like,
be present, enjoy. But as much as that was a victory,

(01:11:44):
one of the reviews of that night was the first
half of the write up was I didn't want to
be here and I didn't believe that they could. Like
that was the narrative. What every review we get is
I don't want them to do well. Yeah that was
and we had sold out this arena. It pisces me
on so fucking much and if it's not that, it's
like they catch us on our worst show of all
time and they just slander the ship out of Okay,

(01:12:06):
let's let's forget the reviews from sec read the reviews,
because that's a whole rabbit hole. I'd rather not go
down right this very second. Many people will say rock
is dead. If you look at the Spotify top fifty,
there's not one rock track. So what is the future
of this band because it's a rock band, What is

(01:12:27):
the future of rock in the world? At law? Rock
is not dead. You're using the wrong metric, So what
metrics should we use? I mean you should just go
to you know, go to a show, go to any
you know club down the street. There's gonna be kids
playing the guitar screaming their head off. So why do
you think it's not translating into streams. I mean, you
have a good number of streams, double digitmillions, but compared

(01:12:48):
to you know that, it's simple, it's absolutely I study
this stuff, and it is because rock as um as
early adopter to technology, is not always great. And not
only that, it's a specific, singular purchase connection. It's not
a passive listening environment in that same manner. So if

(01:13:10):
you look at iTunes and apples having a tough time
doing it is building their rock streaming because iTunes is
a very deliberate purchase. Sorry, iTunes is a very deliberate purchase.
Where you've got streaming is a passive audience. I think
you are looking at passive stream numbers across all the
other genres um that have a bit of a baked

(01:13:32):
in number just based on what it is. I do
not think rock has fully converted as a genre to
the streaming platforms. I think we are. I think we're
the country just came on and look at the last
two years of country massive and they are lated doctors.
Does that mean that you should create passive listening music? No?

(01:13:54):
You know what I'm saying is the last round of
a doctor. So when always rhythmic urban music or the
adopters technology history of time, rock the last one to
move country as an indicator of that growth is massive.
So I believe rock right now would be like buying

(01:14:15):
property in Manhattan in the thirties. Okay, Nick, what do
you think? Um? I think that there's a lot of
you know, when you when I talk about alternative and
they were like talking to go to pop and the streams.
You know, there's a lot of people that listen to
rock absorb it differently. A lot of the pop stuff

(01:14:39):
is listened to buy thirteen year old girls that listen
to it over and over and over and over again,
constantly telling all their friends to listen to it over
and over and over and over again. And that looks
great when you're looking at a computer screen and see
all those streams, but you don't necessarily see who's all
behind it. And you also got to realize that uh
more other people are being kidded to other than thirteen

(01:15:01):
year old girls. Thirteen year old girls may drive the
industry over al, but you know what I think, and
I think people that listen to that did come out bad.
But then when people listen to rock music, you know,
they they want to hear a whole album. They have

(01:15:24):
their own collection. They could be a huge fan of
a band, but they're not going to listen to one
song over and over again. And they may listen to
multiple albums or they may also and they also have
a large collection of of you know, records that they'll
go to, right So it's just a it's a different
habit of listening, but they're also more in tune of

(01:15:44):
being loyal and staying there for the long career. So
if you're a fan of a rock band and you know,
I always love the Glorious Sons, I will always go
to the shows even if I wasn't working them, And
the same thing with other rock bands that I love,
right So it's it's like, really the long term what
I'm going to give long term? You know, you see

(01:16:05):
those teenage girls that I was talking about in two years,
that band that they think is the greatest thing in
the world right now, they're going to completely forget about
and not even like that's what I was saying. But
you're you're using the wrong metric of rock is dead
because it's you're based on front facing streaming numbers. You're
not based there are I could find ten thousand artists

(01:16:29):
that have more streams in this band that cannot play
the ten people in their city. It's what you use
to quantify what is alive and what is dead. And
when you're in a room of people that are all
on the same page, seeing the same song that's alive,
and well, try to get five people to order the
same topics on one pizza at a venue in that moment,

(01:16:50):
that singular moment that speaks to how alive it is you.
We've got to stop putting that narrative of the consumption.
Doesn't it is tied to what something's alive or thriving?
Because would you rather be an artist that has eight million,
eighty million streams that will never be able to play

(01:17:12):
a show and never be and you're at the mercy
of is that going to continue? I'm I gonna have
another hit? Or is healthy and vibrant to you being
able to play too? Anywhere from a thousand on a
loan to twelve thousand or fifteen thousand. Okay, let's go back.
I was at the venue and I noticed to Winnebago
when a U wall I presume that you're traveling your

(01:17:33):
apparatus not anymore, thank god, that's just changed today. No, No,
that's uh that we used to travel in that, but
we actually travel on a bus now traveling a bus? Okay,
so uh, what's the being on the road? Is that
good battle? Otherwise? It just depends the day. Really. I
mean for myself, I I really enjoyed playing music and

(01:17:56):
being on the road and kind of like that camaraderie
that you have with you know, your best friends in
a bus and m But I mean, if I have
a bad show, I hate being on the road. Okay.
How about you know people say, well, you know, the
twenty two hours on the road. Uh, the only reason
it works is the one or two hours on stage.
Would you agree with that? Absolutely? Okay? And the other thing,

(01:18:18):
if we go back to rock and roll, the rock
and roll acts of the classic rock era, they went
on the road, and let's say they misbehaved in the
hotel rooms and they part took of certain opportunities. To
what degree do you do that? To what degree was
that inhibited by mobile phone cameras? Well, we don't have

(01:18:39):
the money to trash hotel rooms yet, so that's not
been a thing. Um. But we have fun. We just
go out and have fun. We honestly, like, right from
the first day we ever hit the road, I treated
it like this is never gonna happen again, so let's
enjoy it while we're here. I mean, now it's more
of a career and you have to be sensible, and
you can't you can't go gang busters every night. But

(01:19:01):
we have fun, Okay, well, let's go. You know you
mentioned Rush earlier. Uh, those are nice guys. You know.
Obviously Neil Purt has passed away and they probably won't
play under the same name or whatever, maybe ever again.
But I've been to Rush shows and you can count
the number of women there a couple of So I

(01:19:22):
went to your show last night, forty or fifty percent
of the audiences women. Do you have any idea why
that's the case. Uh, that's that's very new. I mean
we're probably lucky last night. Realistically, I don't think so
it's my songs. Yeah, I'm a sensitive man, and I

(01:19:44):
mean I think I think that's what. Okay, Well, let
me ask you this and you can answer any way.
Would you like, is there still a groupie seen in
the rock and roll world? I don't think. I just
like it could be dudes too. Like we've see people
up in every city. It's like, it's not droopies. It's
like people who love your music who end up hanging

(01:20:04):
out with you. It's like, I mean, it's like the
dead so Brett having seen you and not having seen
you before. You're quite the dynamic front man, and certainly
even if the audience isn't reacting, You'll energize them. Where
does that come from? I don't know. I'm crazy, man.
When I was younger, I was the entertainer and the joker,

(01:20:26):
and you know, the cry baby and the and the
and then you know, I don't want to say the
talented one, but the you know, the okay. But the
difference is most people save the sing along to the
end of the set. Yeah, where you started, It's essentially
started off with that. That's a big risk. People may
not sing. Yeah, well, we try to take risks every night.

(01:20:48):
But I mean, I know people are going to sing
in my heart of hearts, I feel like that's okay.
But you're up on stage. You know, you're you know,
you're moving, You're not staying in one place. You're exhorting,
imploring the audience. That just feels totally natural to you.
I mean it hurts sometimes and you uh, you lose

(01:21:08):
your wind um, But I mean I never knew that
there was another way to do it. Well, do you
ever every night you hit the stage saying I'm gonna
win the audience? Yes, and I haven't before, That's my question.
And I've also crumbled on stage before. But there are
some nights no matter what you try, it doesn't work. Okay,

(01:21:31):
So what's the next step? Obviously, you sell arenas in Canada, Okay.
And this is probably more of a question for Jason
and Nick. How do you make it bigger? Which is
always a desire and you want to push the button? Okay,
you can answer. I think that. I mean, we've been
pounding the pavement for like, I don't know, like seven years.

(01:21:51):
I mean, there hasn't been a year that we haven't
played over six shows, Like, we haven't been on the
road for six of the year like in like three
or four years. So I truly believe at some point
it's time to kind of take a step back and relax.
You know, you don't want to rest on your laurels.
You want to still be working. But I don't think

(01:22:12):
that you can go forever like that. It's it's gonna
turn very badly. It's it won't go go on that way. Okay,
But let's just assume this is as big as you
ever get it. You're happy with that. Um. I think
that's kind of a state of mind that I've been
kind of dealing with and trying to figure out as
a just as a person, you know, not as a

(01:22:32):
you know, rock entertainer. For myself, I I want to
have seven billion people here the songs we write, that is,
that's that's what we're doing out here. And we're always
going to be, you know, guys with good work ethic
and and I mean, maybe those opportunities don't come. You know,

(01:22:55):
I think there's a lot of luck in this business.
Not to downplay anybody's work ethic or what they have
done here, but there's a lot of luck that goes
into this whole business as well. And I mean it's
very hard work. But some people, some bands are great,
and they never they never even get it shot, They
never get out of their hometown. And I mean we
I'm playing in front of fifteen thou people. I mean

(01:23:15):
that's insane. You know, guys he didn't know what a
producer is, who didn't have guitar pedals, who never owned
a guitar pedal for the first three years of our career,
are playing in front of fifteen thousand people. I mean,
just that inble. But but I only only only you
can answer. But there's certainly there's certain inherent limits that

(01:23:38):
other people have hit tragically. Hip biggest being in Canada,
never really made it in the US. A lot of
acts you talk on the rock charts, you mentioned the Truths, etcetera,
they are not big in America. So in addition to
playing rock and roll, which is the hardest and the
lengthiest time. So do you feel that, hey, you know,

(01:23:59):
it's more different, cold to make it outside of your
home country. Well, I think that there's so many more
people in this country and so many more bands, and
and I don't like and like Nick has described word
career band like this isn't about racing to the top
right now, and not in my eyes. I think you
have to get to hit the road and play it

(01:24:19):
smart and have fun and get better at your job,
and you know, learn and write great songs and you know,
feed a sense of community into people and truly love
what you do. And I think if you can do
all those things, I think that you can. You know,

(01:24:40):
you can create magic, like real magic and it and
I would love to do that forever. I just don't
want to do it all at once. Well, how many
shows are you are they playing? At least I think
they count. The five year count was just under eight shows. Okay,
So Nick how important radio today and breaking a band

(01:25:01):
it certainly rock band. Well it's uh, you know, everyone
likes to trash radio, you know, and they like to
say it's all about the internet, but radio is still
really important. When managers sign a band or a record label,
it's it's always about sync, international radio. Those are the
three things that everybody wants. And anyone will tell you

(01:25:24):
that when you get a lot of airplay, you sell
a lot more tickets. Uh, you know, you'll get more streams,
you know. And I love seeing the magic. I've been
doing radio promotion, like I said, for over twenty years,
and to me it's magic, you know, to witness Brett
create magic and something out of nothing. And then I

(01:25:45):
get to be a soldier and go out there and
get people to hear it and turn people onto it,
and then travel to that city and see people reacting
to that song and singing along and going crazy and
screaming when they hear the song that they heard in
the radio. People are still listening to the radio. And also,
you know, uh, when you talked at one point, you

(01:26:07):
talked about filters, right, there's there's a lack of filters. Yes,
there's playlists, but they're limited. And you know, a lot
of radio stations still play a part in being a
filter of new music because people don't have the time
to sit in front of the Internet and try to
find the stuff that they like. So whether it's rock
or alternative or you know, Triple A or non com radio, um,

(01:26:30):
there is still that discovery. And a lot of times
what you see is the most consumed online and the
most talked about on socials is what's getting the most played,
you know, at radio. When we were in Philly the
last time we were, like the last time they were
in Philly, they sold out like a two hundred cap room.
And then when we go back to Philly and it
was over eight hundred tickets sold uh a year later

(01:26:52):
and uh, and I'm seeing W M. M. Mart shirts
on like like all over the place. And that's the
radio station that has adopted this band and has really
loved this band and has them live on air on
their morning show to perform an interview. And today most
radio stations they won't put a band on the morning

(01:27:13):
show for an interview and performance. They'll put them in
a in a in a side room and videotape it
for YouTube and and sell it to an advertiser, not
that it's a bad thing and it doesn't give me
the awareness, but you know, on MMR, I'll have fifty
people in the top five market hearing them talk and
then find out that there was over a hundred tickets

(01:27:34):
old you know, online day of show because of that.
So that's what drives me to do this. Okay, so
we've we've really gotten the groundwork here. What is the
next step and how big can the glory of Suns becoming?
What is your goal? We are a record cycle and

(01:27:54):
a half behind where we are in Canada. We are
seeing the exact same metrics, the same lit mistest of
how it's growing. We're seeing the same grow almost to
a chart if you put it behind it, I think
all the things that Brett is saying, the things that
you can control and the love of it, and that
will lead to the next success because we've already proven

(01:28:15):
this concept and we didn't prove it on the back
of these elements that we don't control. We proved it
based on what works for this band and what we
want to do. And now we've applied it into the
arguably easily the yard the largest music market on the
planet and we are going from two hundred to eight hundred.

(01:28:36):
We're going from three hundred to nine hundred, like we're
seeing it Detroit, We're going from three D. Nick did
a great sales pitch on radio in terms of selling
those overall tickets. Are they all sold by radio or
what do you think is driving that consumption? I think
it's this fan base. I think we have this rapid
community of people. I'm at a couple in Seattle last

(01:28:58):
year that have been to four shows. They were not
nineteen years old, and they met us after the show
in Seattle and they've been to four shows Portland's seah
I came remember the other ones, the fat fan community
and the people being the start of the megaphone that
believe that everything this band does comes from a place
of true heart and integrity are preaching at to everybody.

(01:29:20):
I think definitely that like we might not have the
most fans, but our fans probably annoy the hell out
of people with how much So how did you end
up opening for the Stone? Well, we're actually talking about
this in an argument and a heated discussion about production costs.
We Mark Norman signed the band to a g on

(01:29:41):
a global touring deal, and he's like, maybe one day
we could play you guys could play with the Stones,
and obviously huge We're all huge Stones fans, and so
I'm having this conversation, Um, this is our first club
tour in Canada, and I'm putting the pitch in and Mark,
it goes to the Stones team and it goes from
I think it goes like Ronnie, Charlie, Keith, Nick Mick.

(01:30:03):
It goes like that's how it goes. Then it got
somewhere in the middle and then they're like, I don't
know if they can handle a big stage because we
hadn't played an arena yet. We were a club act
from Canada. But they're like, oh, we like it. So
we play our first hometown show arena showing Kingston people.
Um spent a lot of money on production at I

(01:30:24):
was a bit of a punching bag taking for that.
Filmed it, put an edit together, sent it to a
g who sent it through to the Stones, and I
was on a beach in Miami with my wife and
I got a phone call saying do you want to
go to Marseilles and open for the Stones? And the
first call I made was to you, and I think
it's like, it's probably the only time I've been excited

(01:30:46):
in the last ten years. It was unbelievable. So we're going,
We're going. We had to move mountains, cost us a
bunch of money to go do it. We do that show, um,
and then we got to do it again this summer
in Toronto, and um if it came from the way
Nick believes in the band, the way I believe in
the band, the way the fans believe in the band.

(01:31:08):
Mark Norman believed in the band and advocated in places
that we would never be able to touch. And so
when Brett says we may not have the most fans,
we for sure I have real special ones that feel
like kinship to this and that is going to be
the key to how we become a household name. And
it reverberates all around too, Like I don't think there's

(01:31:30):
a single passive person working for us, like on any step,
Like everybody with us wants the same thing. And I
mean Jason calls the world domination, but I mean we
we just want to see We just want people to
hear hear this and and to take the ride with us.

(01:31:50):
And I think on that note we've covered the story
of the Glorious Sons to date. One thing I will
say is you know you are an amazing frontman, Brett,
and the band is very dynamic live and I'm not
blowing smoke up your ass. So therefore, in terms of
going to see as they say, you had a very
engaged audience when I saw you at the l Ray
many event gentlemen, Thanks for doing this till next time.

(01:32:12):
This is Bob Leftstond

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

The Nikki Glaser Podcast

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Glorious Sons

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

The Nikki Glaser Podcast

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

The Glorious Sons

Dateline NBC