Whitney Cummings

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
My guest today this comedian writer for Pocket Tour, Whitney Cummings. Okay,
you said just came from Quimby. What are you doing
for Quimby? Is this like we're gonna get into the
nitty gritty, We're gonna get to all kinds of topics, Whitney,
I was just pitching something to Quimby. That's it's a

(00:31):
quick bite show to show. Um. Yeah, this is of course,
uh Katzenberg's new pitch. They made the deal today with
T Mobile to have millennials, who theoretically don't have long
attention spans, have little bites on mobile phones. That's right,
which I believe is already working in other places around

(00:51):
the world. Right in Asia they sort of have already.
You know, even though we live in the greatest country
in the world, a lot of these countries are far
in adv ants. You know. It's I say, in China
they do so much more on the phone. Okay, so
you had a pitch, you say you're pitching one. Was
pitching something today, um with this wonderful writer who had
a great idea that was a sort of dystopian satire

(01:13):
of influencer culture and it's sort of successions set inside
a lifestyle blog office like a Goop type office. I
got it. There's a lot of information information sort of
like you know, commenting on all the sort of products
of ridiculous products that influencers are trying to sell us.
And um, so what did the person you pitched to
have to sen one of my Yes, that's one of

(01:37):
my favorite people on the planet. Um, he has an
excellent taste, So I think it might go well. I
have something else set up there as well with berlante Um,
so I'm doing a couple of things with them, so
hopefully this okay. So when you pitch them, since they're
short episodes, how many episodes would there be? Um, it depends,
but I think you start with like ten. I believe
they give you a budget and you can kind of

(01:58):
break it up based on what makes them sense, and
then I believe you own your content in two years afterwards.
I think that's part of Well, that's astounding, certainly in
the visual entertainment. But what does that mean? What that
means ultimately that you can do something within the future
and the music business, what it usually means is you
license it to somebody else in the future, hopefully it's
slightly better terms. But right, but so's I can take

(02:20):
it back and sell it somewhere else, sort syndicated myself
or put it on my Instagram or something. Well, theoretically,
let's just assume it's successful, which a lot of this
stuff is really not. Okay, then you can build you
tell me, no, you can build an asset. Traditionally in
this field, doesn't work that way because the talent does
not own the contents. Uh. But if you build an asset,

(02:42):
you can sell that for a good amount of money,
and you can sell it as part of a deal,
like I'll sell this and I'll also give you something else.
That's right, that's right. I mean, look, it's the wild
West out there. You know. I've got a couple of
things set up in streaming services. They either move lightning
fast and it doesn't feel real, or glacially slow. You know,
it's it's well, welcome to Hollywood. Finally figured this business out,

(03:04):
and then the entire thing changed overnight. You know, there's
no target anymore. I talked about this to my shrink
all the time. Okay, you had a certain goal, and
then they blew up the destination. You know, people used
to be a comedian, you wanted to get a sitcom.
I don't know why anybody would want to do that
anymore because so few people watch. None of them are
doing well on Netflix, some of the ranch that's my point, Gabrieliers. Yeah, right,

(03:26):
but when you when you go onto a streaming service,
inherently your goal is less. You're not think of it
as a world dominating thing. So therefore, when it's successful,
you can you know, it's like in the old days.
I remember Mark Maron, I think it was IFC got
his own sitcom so we could say this is before
he was in glow. He said, oh this is so great,

(03:46):
but nobody is watching right right, It's and it's also
this crazy thing just as a you know, creator, it
used to be you made a show for America for
six years, so we did you know, two book Girls,
and then you sell it internationally. If it works, now
you're kind of immediately selling it internationally. You know exact,
there's no back end. But also as a creator you're
thinking like, well, is this joke gonna work in Asia?

(04:08):
Is this joke gonna work in Sweden? Is this two
inside you know, you want something to go global instantly,
which I think is part of the reason why television
is moving towards these Marvel superhero stuff that translates universally
right away. You know, once you've already built an audience
with something like two ber Girls, two and a half
of Man, Big Bang Theory for six years, then you go, Okay,
this really worked here. Now we get to go to
China and say, number one show in America and they'll

(04:30):
take a chance on it. Now it's like, we're not
giving the number one show in America right away, We're
giving you one that America is still testing out. Okay,
but as a creator, do you feel inhibited that you
must make something that can be consumed around the world.
I would say my number one concern, if I'm gonna
be really honest, it seems that's what we're doing here
is making shows for streaming services and not having the

(04:53):
ability to make fun of how technology is ruining our lives. Service.
You have John Oliver who's on HBO, which is owned
by A T n T, and seemingly every show he
pokes the bear, you know, he basically goes against a
T and T so I think on some level, Netflix
certainly is sophisticate. I'm not saying Disney nor A T
and T is sophisticated enough to handle that. I was

(05:14):
sort of like in you know Apple, I you know,
Apple has no sense of humor about it. Well, I'm
just I'm just curious, like, are we allowed to do
a scene where my phone doesn't get reception on? You know?
It used to be when we were on networks. We
weren't allowed to say Jesus Christ. We were allowed to
say God. We weren't allowed to say, you know, curse
or show nudity. Now are we allowed to not show
I would doubt it on Apple? If you said I'm

(05:35):
gonna do the whole show on an Android, they would
be pissed. Are you allowed to say, like, well, I
don't know cell phones cause cancer? Are you allowed to
joke about something like that? Are you That's that's actually general?
The point is, can you say something specifically anti Apple? Yeah?
Are you allowed to make jokes, you know, on on something?
I mean, we consume six hours of content our cellphone,
not quimber lewed to make a joke on Quimby about

(05:55):
how social media is the apocalypse and it's bad for
our brains and it's causing body Just what's your personal
viewpoint on that. I'm not a scientist on it. Um emotional,
yea technical. I don't want to pretend to be an
authority on it because I have a comedian I think
in hyperbole. I think it's gone. I tell my girlfriend

(06:17):
that I do. Is she comedian? No? But I talked.
She always react, yes, that's we just have this. That's
not exactly what I said. Yeah, she said that's something
I did annoyed her, and then I said, oh, you
were piste off because that's not what I said. I said, Well,
to me, annoy is as heavy as pissed. No, no, no no, yeah.

(06:37):
I think humans. I think we are designed to find
flaws and things. We are designed to complain about things. Uh,
we're designed to um amplify the consequences of things. Okay,
but let's go back. When something doesn't work, are you
someone o c is and you're pissed? Uh, something doesn't
work in terms of well, you know, you get your phone.
We all have this technical glitch and something doesn't work.

(07:00):
You're the type, oh this is technology, Oh it'll be
fine tomorrow, or you say God, I'm so pissed. It
depends on the circumstances. I mean, if your iPhone doesn't
work and that's your biggest problem of your day, you
have a pretty good life. I'm not into that. I'm
not into that first world problem, not at all. You've
been bridged longer than I have. Rich It's a whole

(07:21):
another thing. But my point is people always say, oh,
two things that make me insane. One is you're better
than that. Fuck you am. I haven't said that yet. No, No,
you have about here all the time. Okay, okay, that's
shaming perfectly. And then you constantly here first world problem.
That's my problem exactly. I mean when I go up.

(07:44):
When I grew up, my parents literally said you gotta
finish what's on your plate because their kids starving. In Europe,
some guy wrote a who's your parents know? They're not starving?
It's the only place I think they're doing well. Were
jumping forgetting that. Today almost no one is starving, And
I forget the book uh Troy Carter told me to
read and I have on my kindle. There are a

(08:05):
lot of women in LA who are starving for different reasons. Yes,
my choice, but let's go back to technology. Are you
someone who believes, let's just start with usage as opposed
to the high level with these guys. Are you are
you anti social media, addiction to the phone, addiction to screen. No,
because we've always been addicted to something, and um, you know,

(08:27):
I think we're also in our echo chamber. I I
tore all over the country and I am grateful that
I get to see what real America looks like. And
I don't walk around. I don't see people walking and
talking on their phones when I go to Duluth. Um.
You know, I think that metropolitan cities we tend to
that up. You literally went to Duluth to do comedy.
I haven't been to Duluth this year. I was used

(08:49):
Duluth as a as a job as a Joe blow
a city exactly. I've actually been okay, but Duluth actually,
when there, it's like the edge of the world because
that's where the Edmund Fitzgerald left. You remember the record,
the Edmund Fitzgerald. And it's on to think about my geography.
I think it's Lake Superior. They literally can surf, the

(09:11):
waves are so big. And Deluth is of course on
my mind because they burned down a synagogue there recently,
and I happened to be Jewish. But it's like the
edge of the world is different than like a Pensacola
I might go to. For like, cities that most La
New York people don't go to are like Deluth, Pensacola,
and Toledo. Well, it used to be the whole Pan

(09:32):
handled Pensacola and the West. Everyone really had no idea
if I lived with a woman who's from Tallahassee, tallahass
the seventies. Okay, so, and her father was the richest
guy in Tallahassee. Okay, so he drove roy is exactly exactly.
But the point is that was before two thousand Bush

(09:54):
versus Score and all the controversies. People have a better
idea of what Tallahassee is now, and it's more cosmao thing,
But essentially Tallahassee is Georgia. They think they think, you
know Miami. Yeah, no, people have Southern acts. It's greatly different. Yeah. No,
I'm not a I'm not super apocalyptic. When it comes
to the phone stuff. Um, you know, I lean into

(10:16):
the negative parts of it sometimes for comedic purposes. But
I'm the stuff that I'm working on now is really
more like, this is the safest we've ever been. This
is the most um joyous we've ever been, the most
convenient our lives have ever been, And all we do
is is thinking complaint about it. Well, I find it. Know,
there's the intelligencia of the New York Times, a New Yorker.
They are constantly printing anti technology articles all the time.

(10:40):
Screens are fucking everybody up, etcetera. I have a completely
different viewpoint depends on how you use them. It's like
any weapon. Really, it's like a knife. You can use
it to step, so I don't think it's a weapon.
I mean, in the nineties I had a free subscription
to a o L through Warner. But when it broke up,
when you know, when it broke it, basically I was there, Okay,
I could suddenly communicate with all the like minded people.

(11:04):
You know, it was it was a good thing. Yeah.
I think what people don't understand is the phone is
personalized to the individual. That's that's why we're addicting. I mean,
I think the things that are problematic are really I mean,
the algorithms tricky in ways that not of course that
you might not be seeing news that you should be
seen exactly. Like that's what that's a high level It's
like Facebook saying we can take ads that are not

(11:25):
true and yes, exactly, and it's I'm the type of
person who's gonna actively seek out news, but a lot
of people who just you know, I sat down once
and I had a different c ann page than someone
I was sitting next to, and Google against different results.
That was alarming to me. Okay, So when you're not working,
because this begs the screen question, how do you tend
to fill the little bit of time you have when

(11:46):
you're not working. I document whatever I'm doing for social media.
When I'm not working, I'm not I mean working documenting. Okay,
but most comedians at the advent of Twitter two thousand ten,
two thous in eleven, they tweeted at infinitum, like Albert
Albert Brooks very funny tweeter. Last couple of years hasn't

(12:06):
tweeted both politics happened, Twitter really became So no, no,
I'm heavy on politics and I'm heavy on Twitter. My
question is social media is it? How beneficial is it
to your career? Credibly unbelievably Okay, which aspect unbelievably selling tickets.
No, No No, Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat. They all kind of do

(12:28):
different things. So Twitter used to you. I just mean
what you tweet about on Twitter, if it's not politically
or zygeisty driven, it's probably gonna get less traffic. You
have to be part of whatever the current conversation. How
many followers on Twitter? A million? Four? You know? So
I took like two years off when the election because
I just don't really talk about politics. I don't really
joke about politics. It's just really not my thing for

(12:49):
a litany of reasons. Give me two reasons. Um, I
I'm someone who believes you should know what you're talking
about when you talk about it. President Andy. Yeah, well look,
I just for me, I had done it a couple
of times and it just didn't go particularly well, and
I was like, this just turns into a more ass
Well wait, wait, slower, why did it not turn out? Well,

(13:11):
it was something about it was like a joke about
Brett Kavanaugh, and it just became not comedy anymore. I'm
not trying to get in fights with strangers. Okay, but
let's start from the beginning. Did you think the joke
was funny? Um? I have to be honest. I think
it was probably it had an undercurrent of not self righteousness.

(13:32):
I think I was right my opinion. Okay, My point
is you have to understand I interact with these people
all day long. They call it working the rest. If
I even mentioned Trump's name, I can tell you that
people who are going to email me that is their agenda.
But the point is we cannot back down. It's the
same thing like they they demonized Adam Shift. If I
was Adam Shift, I'd be out there bitching all day

(13:53):
instead of going back into my hole. I believe this
is my personal philosophy. I'm not John Oliver, I'm not
Bill Maher. You know. I believe it is my business
to be funny. And if I'm going to give an opinion,
there needs to be something funny involved in what I'm saying.
But if you but you can say something funny about politics,
I can. I can, and I I believe that two

(14:15):
years ago, saying something funny about politics didn't always end
in a laugh for everyone? No, But did it end
in a laugh for a significant portion of the unclear?
Because Twitter of America's on Twitter, of percent of everyone
on Twitter, generates of the comments. Okay, but let's not
make it about Twitter. The interesting thing and I don't

(14:35):
want to play psychoanalyst here is you talked about television
saying creatively is what I'm going to do play around
the world. Now you're talking about Twitter saying what is
going to give you the negative effect? You are someone
who is you know, famously said you've been pillar read
in society. Okay, so to what degree does this now
make you gun shy? Uh? I think there's a difference

(14:58):
between gun shy and maybe just sagacious and being smart
business wise. It used to be we could disagree and
you can still be a fan of mine. The climate
two years ago became if we disagree, you wan't follow me,
you never want to see me again. You might make
threats about my safety, you might try to docks me
and turn people on Reddit against me. It used to

(15:19):
be if you didn't think something was funny, you maybe
would still follow me. It still comes to your show
joke didn't hit. Now it's fuck her, everyone go against her.
It just becomes to me a thing. It's bad business.
It's bad marketing, absolutely bad business. You have to know
what the ramifications of something you're sending out is going
to affect your business, and if you decide to go
into politics, you better be ready to have ideal with

(15:42):
this all day every day. Yeah, okay, I find that
the great majority of people who were biting back don't
sign off. It's the silent people who signed up interest.
I tracked my numbers at least once a day, so
that's multiple time. Today. I'm talking about subscription, which is
a little bit different from Twitter. And what I find is,
despite all the bitching, most people don't sign off. So

(16:06):
I say, to what degree do I want to be
in here? But they might not buy tickets next time.
But what you find is a lot of the stuff
that you do, I mean the nature of what I
do to a degree what you do is we're at
the eye of the hurricane. People are talking about us externally.
We don't really know what's going on. So that I mean, okay,

(16:27):
I would never send an email to a celebrity. I
would never tweet back something at all, someone with you know,
so it takes a special kind of person to do that.
In addition, is someone I have found I get a
lot of email. The people who send long, deep emails
are terrible face to face. They can speak person says

(16:49):
like one line the people you connect. So it's a
little for me, I don't like something I've wrestled with
because that's what they want. They want us to turn
it to something different totally, which is I think that
you know, sometimes the best war strategy is a masterful retreat.
And I think sometimes it's important to know you know
what to say, and it's important what not to say,

(17:11):
and want to just stay on the bench and allow
your work to speak for itself and to not have
to chime in on everything that's super volatile, and uh,
the impact and the intention might get conflated. And I
think right now as comedians, if people want to get
in the ring and start fighting about politics and maybe
alienating some of their base or you know, pissing people what,
it's just a very emotional time and I just try
to remember my job is to make people laugh, it

(17:33):
is to unite people, It is to sell tickets, and
it is my goal to have every type of person
buying tickets in the same theater. And right now is
a is a time where you can really um step
into a hornet's nest by accident. And I think a
lot of us don't really know how elitist A lot
of it comes off, and I think elitism in in
comedy ends up really narrowing the number of people aren

(17:54):
to buy tickets. Going back to Twitter, so when you
this is one this is one of the reasons I
stopped tweeting. I don't have the number of followers you have,
and certainly my follower account is not going up in
the last six or eight years when I've essentially not tweeted.
But I find you tweet and what bothered me and
I have another way to reach people via email. Uh
is how few people actually see it? No, I mean

(18:16):
we it feels so big to us. I mean this
is really I think when you talk about the negative
ramifications of social media, it's I think, to me, the
dysmorphia of think of it feeling like it's happening. You know,
it's like a front page headline when five people have
responded to you. You know, it's just this, it's a hallucination. Really,
it feels you know, if you have ten followers and

(18:37):
three people respond that's thirty It's thirty percent of your
It just feels huge, you know, So I think, um, uh,
we're all inflating and amplifying. The other thing is a
lot of these people's you know, send you heinous tweets
or whatever. You look at the follower account one two
and you say, unless I respond, I've learned helps them
more than it helps you. And it's just I mean,

(18:58):
if you walk down the street in a homeless first
and was like hey and yelled at you, you wouldn't
engage with them. You'd keep walking. I mean, that's what
we're doing. We're um, you know. And also look, and
let's be serious the last year, how many careers have
you seen get dinged by a old tweet? You know,
for comedians especially an excellent point because you know, one

(19:18):
of the marks of an intelligent persons they can change
their minds. Really a d C they can't change their
mind I mean, I could never run for politics anybody.
You'd have to be squeaky clean. That's right. We're just
getting to the point. You could even smoke dope and
become president, That's right. And I you know, I by
ep the Rosanne reboot. I I know what Twitter can do,
you know, so I try to be sagacious with what

(19:40):
I tweet, careful with what I tweet. And just go
you know, what is it worth it? Okay, what was
your take on it? Was it predictable that Roseanne would
go off the rails? Um? You know, I don't know why.
I still don't have an incisive answer to this question
because I think that that particular tweet, I don't think
anyone could have predicted. It was almost if you asked

(20:02):
someone to write the worst tweet you could write, we
couldn't have come up with it. Um. So you know
there were deaf Obviously, I had not seen the old
tweets from years ago that we're surfacing and you know,
they were going up, they were coming down, and um,
I didn't it was that was like a biblical level tragedy.
I didn't think it was. Okay, let's go to the end.

(20:23):
Do you think the show should have been canceled? Uh, well,
it's it's still on without her. Um. Yeah, I mean
that was right. You can't mean we get to the point.
You know, this is kind of like, uh, Louis c K. Okay, no, no, no,
what I'm trying to say. Louis c. K admitted it,

(20:44):
and there's a certain segment of the population says, forget it.
He has judged on the same level of Weinstein, So
shouldn't there be a sliding scale to a degree? This
is a This will be a five hour conversation. If
I take that out, I can speak to Rose and Um,
I think there's a lot of stuff around Louis that
you and I don't know. Um that maybe they know

(21:06):
more than we do, et cetera. So I'm gonna not
weigh in on that because I'm not an expert on it. Um,
there's a lot of stuff A lot of us don't know.
For all of the claims that you know, uh that
we're hearing about a lot of this stuff. You know,
we don't know about all the things that have been
settled and all the things that haven't been public, you know,
and all the things that may come out. I mean,
you know, you have a ton of money. Let's say
you are you gonna put your money on someone who

(21:29):
has a history of doing this, because then moving forward,
what else is going to come out of this? Pandora's
I agree, But it's more interesting when it's public perception.
When the people, uh yeah, I went, I toured around
the country after the Rosean thing, and people go, what
happened to Roseanne, Is she okay? I was like, you
didn't hear me? There was not only some people that
didn't hear about it, but then you know half the

(21:50):
people are like, A, she's crazy. Ever knew she was crazy?
That's just Roseanne? And what's the Just move on, you know.
But look, we cannot forget the It's ABC is Disney,
they sell mouse ears. I understand children. I understand that.
Will you amount of money you're getting, you can't post

(22:11):
it like that. It's not a lot to ask, but no.
But the more interesting thing to me is the discussion
in the media and in board rooms. To what degree
is that in touch with the people on the street. Um,
you know you've met some of the people on the street.
We shouldn't always be in touch, but there's we shouldn't
stoop to the level that might uh appease something different.

(22:37):
I'm saying that I believe in doing what you want,
and of course, if you have people you're working for,
that's another issue. But a lot of times what they're concerned,
there's a lot of history where they say, we have complaints,
we took the show off the year ten people complaints
he's on a network show, or they had a campaign,
there's no perspective. But let me go back to and
I think that also. I mean, look, you've from what

(22:59):
I understand that had companies and employed people. I mean,
if you are running one of the most valuable brands
in the world, Disney, and you have someone tweets something
racist and you have Shonda Rhymes and Kenya Barriss is
two of your biggest money it's just it's it's forget
the mortal issue and the integrity issue and the class

(23:19):
having class I mean issue. Um, it's also just bad business. Okay,
But let's go back to social media. So you're heavy
on Twitter. How about on the other platform, Instagram. I
would say I'm the most engaged because Twitter is very
much sort of a verbal platform. It's very much you
have to get the hashtag and you know, there's it's
more time sensitive. You have to respond to something that's
happening right this second, and evergreen jokes don't always hit

(23:40):
as well as something topical. Um, so I'm in and
out on there. Not the best place to sell tickets
honestly anymore, in terms of ticket leaks. Just a couple
of things. How many how many followers do you have
on Instagram, I have, okay, and how often do you
post on either of these platforms? I would say Instagram
is twice a day, usually a video day and a
photo day, except on weekends because I can look at

(24:01):
the metrics and see that my followers mostly look at
Instagram during work during the week days, which is why
you always want to subtitle your videos and look at
your metrics, and then Instagram stories I do. I would
say like five or six of those a day. So
what works? They all work for different demographics, and they
all work for different reasons and different things. So Facebook

(24:22):
is more for an older demographic and for the targeted
ads that are selling tickets. Instagram works more for instant
engagement and like selling things like merch or tickets and
targeted Facebook ads are great for localized and I actually
just um, you're gonna love this. Have you heard of this?
Um this new app where people can text you directly? Yes?

(24:43):
Tell my audience, yes, So there's this new app. You've
probably seen it on my Instagram. If you guys follow me, um, uh,
your you've got They're probably like, who uh that they
can You can now directly text celebrities, people touring and
we can actually see your text and text you back.
This is a company called Community. It does not sell
your data, which is wild and um and we can

(25:06):
basically collated by age and uh state. So when I
come to your town, I can text your phone directly
and say hey, I met the Majestic Theater tonight at
eight o'clock instead of relying on a main feed post,
which is probably not going to make the algorithm anyway.
But a lot of people don't know that if you
don't get a certain amount of likes in a certain
amount of time, your post is not going to make
the algorithm. So you can be posting about going to Duluth,

(25:29):
for example, all day long, and people in Duluth might
not even see it. So this is the current issue
with people that are touring is you go to Houston,
you do five thousand seats, You go to the airport
the next day and someone goes, oh my god, when
are you com mees? I love you, I'm such a
big fan, what are you doing in town? And you're like, well,
if you're such a big fan, how did you not
know that I was all these people, especially in the
big city where there's multiple events, And oh, finally, yeah,

(25:50):
you probably wouldn't have gone anywhere, but it was. But
I posted on Facebook, I post on Twitter, I posted
on my main feet, I posted to my stories, but
nobody saw it. And this And because comedians for longest time,
we're relying on email databases. People change their email, they
usually don't change their number. So this is the way
to get to you right away. I can text you
instead of blasting all my followers for Orlando, I can

(26:13):
just text Orlando people directly. Um, which is this is
a godsend and I think it is going to be
major leagus. Let's go back a few chapters. What was
your experience at PEN? Oh? Great question. I it was
very expensive. Um, so how did you pay for us? So?
I paid for it by doing a QVC in Westchester.
I did QVC where I modeled self Tanner UH and

(26:34):
UH track suits, and I did informal modeling at King
of Prussia Mall. I would walk around in wedding dresses
and I had to pay off my loans which took
cares and I did it in three years, so it
was cheaper. Okay, When you went to PEN, how expensive
was it? I mean, wasn't it forty something Okay, so

(26:55):
you went. They didn't give you any financial lead. No,
they gave me some. They gave me um My mom's
boyfriend helped, and then I had some loans. Okay, how'd
you get the gig? QVC? I was worked when I
was in d C in high school in Washington, d C.
I would do informal modeling at Bloomingdale's Tyson's Corner and
White Flint and some magazine stuff. And then I got

(27:19):
a local agent in Philadelphia called Reinhart Modeling Agency, and
I would work at King of Prussia Mall, walking around
and they got me an audition, and I'm very telegenic.
I don't know if you noticed absolutely here, But was
this a dream of yours? Or is this just some
way to make money? Money? Was a dream of mine having? Okay,

(27:41):
so you go to Penn. Did you always want to
go to pen? I didn't. I wanted to go to
Stanford actually, and I don't even know why. I always
had this draw to California to tech. I wanted to
go to Stanford. I didn't get into Stanford early decision,
didn't get in, but then got into Pen and and
uh Annaberg. I wanted to major in communications. I still

(28:04):
don't even know what it is. Uh does anyone? But
I think communications at Annaberg a Penn accidentally was the
perfect education for a comedian because all they did was
tear apart and analyzed media. I took this UH class
with Joe Turou where all they did was talk about
how advertising influences our brains. It was basically the way
comedians evaluate the world. How is it? You know? Nature

(28:26):
and nurture? And do does do video games cause violence?
Like all the kind of things that you would explore
as a comedian and so um, well, you know, I
went to college and I found the most I learned
was outside the classroom. So you were a Penn Did
you fit in? No? Not at all. I worked in
New York, uh two days a week modeling bridesmaids and

(28:47):
wedding gowns. So I was only at Penn three days
a week, and I would do classes nine hours a day,
three days a week, and then I'd be working in
New York. Okay, So the first year you lived in
the dorm, uh No, I lived off campus all three years.
All three years I lived off campus on eighteenth and
JFK and Philly. So did you have any friends at
pen I had a couple of friends. I have two
very good friends. One you might know she wrote a

(29:09):
book called Meet Me in the Bathroom that is about
the music scene in New York in two thousand four.
What's your name, Lizzie Goodman? I know that I don't know, Yeah,
Elizabeth Goodman. She wrote this brilliant book called Meet Me
in the Bathroom. We would go to New York and
like party with like the Vines and the Strokes and
all the those and all the cool bands. And she
ended up writing a book about it that I think
is getting a TV show. Um, so she's out here now.

(29:29):
And then another girlfriend. Mind. So I had like two
or three friends at penn Um, but not much. I
was working and I was you know anyone that knows me? Now,
let's go back at chapter You're from d C. Okay,
how many kids in the family? Three? And where are
you in the higher wark that I know of? I
haven't done my twenty three and me I am the youngest.
Would you wait, let's start? Would you do you know?

(29:49):
I absolutely would. I just did the National Geographic version
of it. I did the twenty three of me one
and I didn't spit in it right and think there
was a special I failed that test. I am so look,
I am the first person to you know, you sort
of dive in all this stuff. I am so not

(30:11):
terrified of by I just think we have you know,
we've gotten so paranoid about all this stuff. Okay, But
as I say, if you do it and correctly, how
do you feel, other than finding out about certain health issues,
how do you feel about people all over the world
being interacting with you and saying I'm related to you.
I will do absolutely anything if I can sublimate it

(30:32):
into a joke or TV show idea or movie idea.
I love taking risks like this. I would love to
have that was your reason to do it? Yeah? Absolutely,
So what else have you done like that? I when
when I first moved to l A, I first got
a check. I was doing a It was like almost
the first sponsored content deals that was happening. I did
a talk show for Lexus in one of the new

(30:53):
Lexus cars. It was like the first gig that really
made me. VICE was doing it and I got twenty
dollars in episode. I did five episodes. I finally had money.
I got Alexis hybrid and was that on top on
top of they gave me like a lease or something,
but then I had to pay it after something, and
then I didn't know about taxes, by the way, so

(31:14):
I spent it all. I didn't know my owned money,
so I lost money on that. UM and I went
to the gas station and I filled up the hybrid
with diesel fuel by accident, because I thought the green
meant like green, like healthy guys, it's like good for
the environment. Was twenty six years old, right, and it
totally destroyed the car, and I wrote this awesome bit

(31:36):
about it, and from then on out, I was like,
the biggest disasters of my life are what are going
to pay my bills? In terms of being a stand up,
I have this. I'm crazy lucky that I could have
this job. That the worst things that happened to me
end up being great jokes. Okay, another worst thing that
ever happened to Um? Oh gosh, well, I mean every
breakup ever, the worst dates of my life are my
best jokes. The most humiliating moments of my life. Okay,

(31:58):
but now you're engaged, right, I know, So how did
you me went? I go to everybody's Wikipedia. I mean,
I know you from Howard starting on I know other
things about you're in the news, but I did Actually
I didn't know that. Uh told me. Oh my goodness,
No way, I was something with Nicky Glazer. Maybe not. No,

(32:18):
I was listening to that. Bobbaue did not tell me,
although I saw him the other week. Nicky Glazer was
on Joe Rogan. Uh, and she talked about you being engaged.
That's how I know. Yeah, it's like three hour episodes.
Say yeah, no, I I, um, that's so funny. Yeah. No, Look,
I every day I'm like, can I just go on
a couple of dates. I won't kiss them or make

(32:41):
I just need some more material. You know is a comic.
I'm just I am obsessed with Let's try. Let's fine
for Kate. You know, looking for Mr Wright and you
know is a little bit different from looking for material. Okay,
So prior to meeting Mr Wright, how often did you date? Um?

(33:02):
I am as as anyone that knows me who's listening.
I do stand up every night, three or four spots tonight.
Are there Comedy Store. They have three rooms. Best club
in the country. Laugh Factory, Improv than all these other
little anelka. So I'm working all the time at night.
So I've never been a person that puts relationships first. Um.

(33:23):
And I say that with love because it's just I
can only make relationships work when I'm able to put
that first. Okay, So let's just say subsequent to pen
did you have any serious relationships to until now? Um?
I thought they were serious. You think they're serious when
you're in them. And did you live with somebody? Yeah,
I've lived with the I lived someone for a couple

(33:45):
of years before that. And how did you meet in
that person? What they do? We They were a writer,
big TV writer. I dated a big director. I mean
I've dated you know, people in this field. Um, and
was lucky to actually learn from them too. I was
very like, don't date anyone in Hollywood, and You're like, no,
why these are the people in work. It's like, don't
date anybody at the company. Of course, that's where else

(34:06):
you gonna be. Yeah, where else you're gonna meet people.
And like, I want to be able to talk through
all this stuff. I dated a in anesthesiologists like three
years ago, and I remembered I had a development deal
or a show at HBO and I had the table
read the next day and I was like working on
at memorizing and He's like, what's the big deal, It's
just a table read and let's not just like oh,

(34:27):
like I I now see the value of your question.
How did you meet an anesthesiologist? He I dated him
when I was in college, when I was nineteen. It
was he lives in Portland. Is wonderful I had dated
I once I've realized people knew I had money, or
that I had I was gold digged a couple of times,

(34:49):
or I had really yeah, did these people even have jobs?
Or they were like between gigs or what. It was
just this thing where I was like they I get
people that like guys that want to be comedians and
they think dating me like will help them, or just
a couple of guys where I realized like, oh, no,
you want to be a writer, or you don't have money.
And someone asked me to pay their student loans, Like

(35:11):
it was just did you pay this? I have? Yeah,
USC does have some of my money? How does someone
pitch I didn't have to pay Rick Singer? It was
how does someone pay my student loan? It's more of
a like it was more of a if I'm gonna

(35:31):
be honest, maybe I'm the monster in the story here.
It was more like I'm working this. He was working
some crazy job that like kept until two in the morning,
and I was like, well, I have to go to
bed at midnight, so you can't do this and this
was and I was like, I'll just pay for it.
Let's make it go away because I have to sleep. Okay,
but let's go back because it's a little great. So
you had a couple of live in relationships. How long

(35:53):
did they last? One was two years? I guess it
was just one live in one and and l A
and that person to the you want to talk about
what was his gig? Uh? He is a writer, a
movie writer. Okay, why did it end? I was young
and stupid. It's twenty seven. Uh, and I got I

(36:15):
had a TV show and was doing two TV shows
and it was just you know, Okay, was it you
were doing TV shows and you did not have time
for him, or you wanted the perks of having to
TV shows you wanted to trade up? So oh no, no,
I don't think it was that. I think I just uh,
you know, was still I was just not. Uh. I
also had not started my recovery journey, um, which anyone

(36:39):
that knows me knows, I'm gonna tell step program. And
I worked a pretty hard allan On program now and
I wrote a whole book about codependence and love, addiction
and all that stuff. So I also was, you know,
in my in my addiction. Okay, so you were a drinker? Nope,
alan On? So an all On? Yeah, so everybody you
were involved at so we've had some sort of addiction problem. Um,

(37:05):
No he wasn't. So what motivated you to go to
alan On? Um? I have a lot of alcoholism and
mental illness in my family. Um. The first time I
got TV show, I realized that I had some blind
spots in terms of leadership and the inability to tolerate
the discomfort of others. It was impossible to fire people,

(37:27):
it was impossible to give notes. I wanted people to
like me. Um, I was doing everybody else's jobs for them. Um.
I was addicted to control. So how do you deal
with the concept with the insight about wanting to everybody
to like you? You deal with it when you realize

(37:48):
I'm three scripts behind because I've spent more time trying
to make sure this employee likes me instead of I
understand you'll understand that, But how do you deal with
the confrontation now? Now I'm very clear or in direct
about it, after you know, eight years in a program.
But it used to be like no, no, I love it.
I love it, and then I change it, and then
you go, well, no, they wanted to change it. You

(38:09):
blame someone else. And what do you say now now
if I even hire someone that is a mismatch, which
I used to do all the time because I used
to sort of hire for all the wrong reasons. It
used to sort of be like we have great chemistry,
or we get along really well, or um, like we
say in in program, is like they're a Christmas tree.

(38:30):
They light you up, they're activating some kind of And
when do you realize you made a bad choice? Um,
when you feel any kind of adrenaline around the person,
or when your behavior starts to change around the person,
or when you start being inauthentic around them, like how
was your weekind it was? When you start being faked,
it's usually when I know that I've recreated my childhood circumstance.

(38:56):
Do you ever have that kind of experience with someone
over great and have it work out they're good at
their job. Yes, yes, yes, I m M, yes, I
think you can do that now. I didn't. There's a
couple of staffs I have I've worked with recently that
I didn't put together myself. But I am confident now
that yes, I can have chemistry with someone but also

(39:17):
go like I have the ability to tell you know
and I don't. I'm not walking on eggshells around a
personality disorder, narcissism or an ego or whatever thing that
I'm magnetically attracted to because I grew up around Okay,
but let's let's go back to the dating thing and
then we'll get back to allen on after that. It
is way more personal than I thought I was gonna be.
It wasn't prevared. I thought this is gonna be like
a business. This is your life and this is our life.

(39:40):
But in any event, so you have that individual as
an attractive woman in a visual business, I would think
that you get hit on an asked out on dates
on a regular basis. I really don't. I Uh, it's
so funny, like all of the like is in this
business that are notorious for dating a lot of people

(40:03):
I would like go out with and then would be like,
so what do you do? Like where do you invest?
Like I become a sexual very quickly because I'm not
very good at all that and uh, I'm not just
good at understanding if someone's flirting with me or if
someone's interested to me. And I was always going off
and doing stand up at six thirty at night. It
was okay, but if you're on the date with that person,

(40:25):
so you're what is your go to thing to do
on an uncomfortable date? Oh, an uncomfortable date? Um? Many
do you do? You pick up the conversation? Do you
feel that's your responsibility? Uh? Yeah, I'm kind of remember
that first or maybe it's the third episode of The
English Office when he went on that bad date and
he's actually I didn't see it, but keep going, Oh

(40:46):
my goodness, certain things you know? Yeah, I mean and
uh he said, uh something like asked me anything, I
can talk about anything? How's that before stomach? It's just
this great thing. I can pretty much talk to anyone
and even if it but I'm talking about when you
feel uncomfortable, do you fill the whole? Uh? That's in

(41:08):
search joke here, Um, when I feel uncomfortable, yes, if
you give me ten, I'll give you ninety. Are used to.
Now that I'm recovery, I'm now able to just go like, okay,
I feel like this isn't going great? Should we call it? Like?
I can do that now? Right? Okay? But once again, okay,
so you went to recovery? How long you go to
alan on? About eight years? Okay? What was the final

(41:31):
thing that's says? A miracle? It's a miracle, I I
it's a brilliant way to reparent. And I also I
wasn't able to say no, that's the other thing I'm
doing every no. But I'm asking what was the trigger
that finally made you go? Um? I have a lot
of family in uh struggling with alcoholism and addiction, and
I was martyring myself and you know, paying for rehabs

(41:51):
and you know it was making my life on me. Okay,
so let's go back. You're the youngest child, yes, sir,
to me, your two other siblings much older older sister
and older brother who lives in London. But how much
older are I'm sorry? A year and a half and
then I am a mistake it's known uh sort of
like a joke in the family, UM, which I think

(42:13):
is part of the achiever complex. The I was never
asked to be here and I need to earn my
keep type thing. And I always sort of had that psyche.
And then my brother uh lives in London. He's a
half brother who's older. I think he's forty five. Okay,
so you grew up under what kind of circumstances were
all of you under the same roof with two parents
or what happened? Yes? Yeah for the most part. No,

(42:33):
my parents split when I was younger, um, and it
was you know, two parents who were worked a lot more,
very busy. I had to work very hard to get attention. UM.
I developed a sort of entertainer complex. I developed the
ability to shape shift or in a good mood, if
you're in a bad mood, do you need funny, do
you need you know? Responsible? Do you need to cook?
You know? I kind of um became a parent uh
at a very young age in a way and very

(42:55):
um uh self contained. UM. I was alone a lot
as a kid, and how to entertain myself and I
checked out using fantasy. I spent a lot of time
in my room, writing stories and interviewing myself and putting
on plays for myself and you know, um, writing scripts.
I wrote a spec for Animaniacs when I was eleven.
They never got it. I wrote it in a notebook. Um,

(43:19):
I didn't even know that's what I was doing. I
was like, I'm writing an episode of this show. It
was my favorite show. Um. I would make music videos
like I was. You know, I had to keep myself entertained.
But I definitely okay, but you were shape shifting. Were
you getting a good reaction or no matter what you did,
it didn't work. I think the thing that got the
most attention was achievements and my dad valued Uh this

(43:41):
is your step is my actual dad value? Contact did
you have with your actual a lot um? And what
did he get remarried? Yes, many times his his I
got his attention when I achieved. Um. He comes from Virginia,
West Virginia, lower class. For him, achievement was everything. Getting
into a good college, um was everything. So for me

(44:03):
to have the best grades half straight a's, that was it.
And I've had developed a sort of perfectionism. Okay, So
what was your experience in school? Were you the genius
that girls didn't want to talk to or what. No.
I was the person who wasn't always naturally smart. So
my tactic was outwork everyone. Okay, work harder than okay,
but you achieve good results. But how did you fit

(44:25):
in amongst the or thirty kids in class? Not well?
I was not particularly I was not particularly popular. I
think I hate when people say that always that's right now.
I was in a very clicky Catholic school UM called
UH outside of d C, I was in a couple
but UM. Then when I graduated from and I actually

(44:46):
lived in Roanoke, Virginia for a couple of years with
my aunts, and then I transferred back sophomore year of
high school. So I was the weirdo that was like
had the wrong uniform and I was like walking in
when all the girls were friends. And but I was
good at basketball and I was really good at volleyball,
so I was kind of like a sports girl person.
But I was very much on my own. I had
one friend named Lee Stitzer, who was like a goth girl,
and we would like hang out, and you know, I

(45:08):
also had all sorts of you know, eating disorders, so
I was very like isolated and weird that way. I
was modeling at the time, so I was gone for
a couple of days at a time. I did not
really How did you feel internally? Um? Numb. I didn't
really feel much until my MIDSI feel you didn't yearn
to be a member of the group. I think that I,
um know, I never thought that I could really fit in.

(45:28):
I didn't really. I just tried to succeed. Okay, so
you succeeded. You got into pen where basically you worked,
and you did it in three years. So now that
you're adult life, are you someone who now fits in
or is that still an issue? Huh? I think that
you know, it's interesting because I think we're in one
of the only towns where having approval from strangers and

(45:51):
fitting in or kind of synonymous. It's hard to tell
sometimes because you can show at a party and everyone's like, wait, wait, wait,
but but we might not hang out me. You know,
I don't know. I know a million people. If I
fit in, I don't know why. I don't know if
it's because of may effervescent or you're you. Something happened
to you, either positive or negative that you want to

(46:13):
share other than your boyfriend fiance. How many other people
can you call when I what something it's specially good
or especially bad happens, not family member friends, It depends.
I don't share good news normally I have Uh, I
would say for people that I for, I would say

(46:38):
like family people And Okay, so, so at this late date,
do you feel very singular or embedded? Singular or embedded
embedded in with entrench do you mean exactly? I'm it's
tricky because I am such a lone, weirdo wolf type person.
I mean, I'll be on tour for you know, six months,

(47:00):
and I won't be able to see anyone for six months,
and then I hop I pop back in. I'm like, hey, guys,
what's up there? Like you missed three weddings? Like what
is you know? It's most of my really close friends
are comedians who we know that we can sort of
not see each other for three months but have lost
no time or credit or there's no like scorekeeping in
our friendships. So most of my my tightest friendships are
with people that have the same lifestyle. Okay, let's go

(47:22):
back to the relationship thing. Did you have relationships in
high school? You are like Howard, You're It is like
being because it's like zig zag. It's like there's there's
no way to get with you. I have a I
told you I didn't get these sleep last night. I
told you I had migrated, and you were like, perfect, Okay,
I'll roll with that. It's good. You're very You're just

(47:43):
your brain and works so fast. Okay, So relationships. Did
you have relationships in high school? No friendships? No? No,
I'm talking about boy girl No no, I mean yes,
but nothing real. So when did you lose your virginity? Oh? Wow?
Does he always ask this to people? Does he ask
this question to you? Don't have to answer anything. This

(48:05):
is a wild show. I think I was fifteen. I
would say, okay, so you had enough relationship to it's
not a young we're That's not what I'm finding. I'm
trying to I come from Kavanaugh Country. Well that was
that your Marylands tak advantage of you know? How dare

(48:27):
you accuse him? Um? No, I didn't. I didn't. I don't.
I wasn't. I didn't go to parties like that. I
was like a sports dork and I lived with my mom.
Did you like sports and stop about today? I was
very good at basketball, like when and played in Europe,
Like really, hey you yeah it was? It was My

(48:48):
whole life was playing basketball. And then I, you know,
I was also modeling to make money and I started,
you know, sort of leaning into the eating disorders associated
with botteling, and I stopped being able to play basketball. Okay,
so do you take a sports today. I have a
sport court at my home and occasionally for Instagram, I
will play basketball just to prove to people that I can,

(49:10):
because no one believes that I can. I did an
episode of a TV show that I did for NBC
where my character was really good at basketball, and everyone's like,
is that c G? I was that put In and
put you know. So I'll do it sometimes just around
my house anything else. You are? You a person who
works out? I used to work out a lot, but
this past year I was touring so brutally that I
was getting sick a lot. Um. You know, this whole

(49:32):
stand up touring road dog thing is really it's cute
when you're twenty five, when thirty six, it's not a joke.
So I started getting sick a lot, and I stopped
working out as much. Um. For a couple of reasons.
This exciting thing happened where like women with different sort
of shapes and sizes can be on television. This happened
like a year ago. I stopped feeling this pressure, you know,

(49:53):
to be in like incredible shape all the time, and
I found like this kind of a waste of my energy.
This three hours like door to door to a trainer thing.
It's right, it's crazy. Okay, So once again, how did
you meet your fiance? Wow? An app called Riya Uh.
It is like Tinder for people in the business. Have
you not heard of ria? How are you? Okay? I

(50:15):
heard of it? I had Okay, so you have a
girlfriend though? Yes, since I had a free uh subscription
to a o L in the late nineties, I lived online.
Why does he say phrase is a joke of free subscription?
What it was in ten dollars? No, that was when
everybody paid by the minute. You're not you know, you're right?
Oh my god, because one time I borrowed my friend

(50:37):
Dave Lairs. Um, he probably listened to your podcast, uh,
and it was like four thousand dollars. Oh my god.
Once year, at the year two thousand, it was all
you can eat. That's different. So the bottom line is
I checked out all those things. Love it a O
l if I could, if I could find my account.
I was so early on match dot com at I

(51:00):
have a lifetime account. Whereas you should treat yourself to
takeing andandera riah. It's an it's not invitation only, but
you have to be approved by a board. And it's
lots of celebrities like John Cusack is on it. I'm
calling him out, Uh, lots of like it's like all
the men in Hollywood. I feel like I've been trying
to avoid for the past fifteen years, all in one place. No,

(51:22):
but I find a fact I got into so early.
It was when the in the nineties and the earlier
part of the century. That was when people still had
a fantasy that they could meet the right person. It's
not knowing that in almost all these cases the problems
with themselves, okay, whereas now it's totally different. It's a
you know, it's a known way, and people go, I

(51:42):
love it. I think it's great. I you know, I
get I think there's a certain point in your career
just I mean, I'm so pro meeting online. It's crazy.
So did you try other apps before that? I was
on Tinder as a joke to write jokes about it,
and I got on like Grinder to like see what
it was forgetting grinder, which is gay if we start
on tin. Did you actually go on any dates with
those people? No? I went on one tender date, like

(52:04):
I was going through just writing jokes about it because
it had just come out. I had this whole chunk
in my third stand up special about it, and so
I was on it. I didn't like see a cute
guy on there that I was like, I feel like
I know him somehow. And we started flirting and he's
like can we meet? And I was like sure, Like
why not? You know, like I'm at the comedy store,
come by, like there'll be people around. He can't murder me.

(52:26):
And he showed up and he was like, oh my god.
I didn't think it would really be you. And I
was like what, Like he thought it was understanding. He
thought it was a joke or something, and I realized, like, crap,
I probably can't do this. So how did you decide
to go on royal Um? A friend of mine was
on it and she uh, and I was like looking

(52:47):
at it and I was like, Okay, why not well,
how desirous were you of meeting Mr Wright? Um? Pretty,
I mean that's pretty programmed into my you know, wish list. Um.
You know, for me, I think that relationships. I'm gonna
this is gonna sound sociopathic or like mercenary or something.

(53:09):
But UM, I think that healthy, stable, romantic relationships are
a great business decision. Um. The chaos of dating and
uncertainty and you know, um, it's not appealing to me. Um.
I look at a lot of people whose careers I
really admire, and they have very stable, borderline boring home
lives so that they can have energy available for their

(53:31):
creative endeavors. And I have enough um risk and uh,
chaos and pain and vicissitudes in my professional life. I
don't want him in my personal life. Well, it's very
interesting because David Brooks he wrote a whole book or
article saying, who you marry is the most important decision
that he divorced his wife Brooks. If that's a real

(53:55):
Hollywood answer, No, David Brooks from The New York Times
A long time I that's wild. Yeah, No, there's is
it a flowbear quote? Be boring in your personal life
so you can be violent in your creative life. Something
I just find that. You know, and I know a
couple of people in arrange marriages. They're good, man. I

(54:17):
can't just throw that out there. I'm I would believe
in that now, like where okay, by whom South Asians
have to say that? Not conventional white white people in America? Okay,
but now am a somewhat of a believer in arrange marriages.
Not literally, I think you should marry someone who has

(54:38):
the same frame of reference. Okay, I can't believe you
just said that. I almost wrote a joke about that
because I dated a guy who is older than me,
and he always want to listen to Robert Plant and
I didn't know any of the songs, Like, is that
what you mean? Like this one element? But that's we
didn't know the same That's like the classic guy mary,
you know, getting involved with someone much younger. What then
do you talk about that is? I mean, it just

(55:00):
was more like in the in the car, I want
to turn up Robin and saying to the top of
my lungs, and then he wants to and it's just
like it's just a road trips. Okay, but I'm really
talking about something different. Okay, I came from a family.
My parents are good plenty. My father died long time ago.
My mother's ninety two. And Connecticut. I did google you, Oh,

(55:21):
I did google middle Bar That's why I went to
college in Vermont. But I grew up in a you know,
melting pop culture, went to public high school, but it
was fifty miles from New York, so it was all
New York media. Can I ask you a gossipy question
out do you know Jim Burrows? I know who that is?
I don't know, okay, because apparently he owns more of
Vermont than the state of Vermont. Well, when I went

(55:43):
to Vermont, it was still right, it was before it
turned left because everybody moved there back to the land movement,
and people were there and stayed there, like my college
roommates stayed. There's a wonderful club in Burlington. Right when
I went to Burlington, they had one, you know, that
was thirty five miles north of Middlebury. So I would
go there to buy records because you could buy them discount.

(56:04):
But this was before Ben and Jerry's was before it
was hip. Burlington was not a hip. My brother went
to university Everymont, right, I mean I went to college
in the dark ages, in that there was no internet
and there was only one snowy TV station, and I
missed those I missed if I missed four TV stations,

(56:25):
now that I just had to pitch to fourteen streamers.
But the interesting thing was you were going to college.
When I went there, there's eighteen hundred people. Now it's
like dred and it's like it stunted you in so
many ways. Saw the same people all the time. They
were like your brother and sister relationships, you were rare,
You lived on campus, you never read to expectancy was long,

(56:46):
sounds awful, And if I had to do it all
over again, I wouldn't go there. But no, I am
from Connecticut, interrupted you. So uh. But going back to
the oh, when I said, from the same thing, some
of these criteria same income, same level of education, parents,
staying together, these are critical things. It's like the woman

(57:08):
I was married to, sure mother had been married multiple times,
and the father left one woman while we were there.
So the fact that she left me, that was part
of the d n A. So also like I did.
Daniel Glass, who's a guy. At the time, he ran
a company called SPK Records. That was Wilson Phillips a

(57:30):
million other people, and I did, okay, well, this was
their very first appearance at that convention the end of
eighty nine in uh the desert. But in any event,
um the he said he needed three things to work
at SPK records. You had to really want to work

(57:51):
at SPK records. You had to work retail because that's
where the transaction took place. And you had to have
graduated from college. Now I have a law degree on
I got to play education. But I nailed, you know,
Daniel Leader, and I said, listen, we live in a
we work in a business. David Geffen Irving as off
they didn't finish college. He goes, No, it's not about
what you learn in college. It shows you can complete something.

(58:15):
And these are really important criteria. So it shows that
you have money to finish college. It shows that your
parents are rich. Well need let's just say college is
much more expensive even you know, with adjusted dollars. I
mean it's becoming eugenics program exactly. Well. Also, who you
meet in college, well, I guess this is my network. Yeah, exactly.

(58:38):
I didn't go to one of those colleges or it
was before that era. Um. But the point being that
certain similarities I think are better when you then encounter
the world. When you talk about that original team thing
and the way we originally do it is we go
to a bar, we go to a party, we meet somebody.
It's based on looks, conversation, all these other things, mega

(59:00):
lack of other people you've met, you know. I think
now that there's there's this sort of you know, you know,
I mean, the the age of people losing the virginity
is going up. I noticed that, it's wild, but you didn't.
Also you notice that day I understand. But the other
thing about it is the more educated you are, the

(59:22):
less chance that you will get divorced, and the more
chance you will even get married, especially in today, in
today's world, we can have children without being married. Yeah.
I mean, look, you you are a master of the
law and of the five I mean marriages of wild
you know thing, and you know it behooves you in
some ways economically if you stay together. Okay, the person

(59:46):
you're engaged, who have they been married before? Okay? How
old is this guy? My age seven? Okay? And what
does he do for a living? Okay? So how many frogs.
Did you have to kiss before you make um? Uh
plenty plenty five twenty. I'm talking about once you join
the ap? What is what I would saying, what does

(01:00:07):
kissing frog mean? These days? I went on on Rya actually,
believe it or not, so many people were sending me
resumes and asking me for jobs that it like I
ended up meeting a couple of people that end up
being like platonic friends. There was one guy on there
that like invented some web browser and I was like, hey, like,
you know, do you want to just get a drink
and can I ask you some financial advice? And I

(01:00:29):
asked him like who we invested with and stuff. So
I ended up just sort of like meeting some really
interesting people on there. But I don't know off Rya,
maybe one he was maybe the second guy. Yeah, you're
texting with a lot, but you're not meeting up with
a lot. I was in post production on a movie
at the time, and I was so bored in the
editing room that I was like, right, was like a

(01:00:49):
video game. I was just texting with everybody and not
actually going out with anyone. Okay, so how did you
connect with your fiance? He was in New York. Um,
and I was. I very much felt like, Okay, the
person that I'm going to a date next is not
in l A like I know everyone. So no from
he was he's from Kentucky and them was in New York, Tucky.
He's from advert from Kentucky. So Kentucky like backwoods like backwoods? Yes,

(01:01:14):
backwoods Kentucky. What did his parents do for a living? Um? Uh?
One was made documentaries, okay, and advertising. It's okay. So
he's in New York and then in New York and
we I'm good in small doses in the beginning. I
also have an addictive personality, and if you're in the
same city, we might just too much, too fast and

(01:01:36):
blow it up. Well, how many times have you hurting
your life? You're too much for people? Many I can
tell that? Really, come on, Okay, So I haven't heard
it from I've only heard it from guys in relationships
who are losing an argument. I haven't heard it from like,
let me let me ask you. Are you capable of
losing an argument in a relationship? Um, But that's a

(01:01:59):
loaded question. My dad was a lawyer, and it's very
hard for me too. I I don't like to lose.
I have my answer, But I do know that capitulating
and apologizing is often actually winning, So I don't I
don't know if I learn that in the Yes, I
get you know, winning sometimes the best way to win
a war as a masterful retreat. Um, And I can

(01:02:22):
own it when I don't think that losing an argument
means admitting you were wrong. You know a lot of
times it's me admitting like, hey, I shouldn't have handled it,
that I shouldn't have done that, I'm sorry my back. Okay,
So let's go back to your fiance. So you're on
the west coast, he's on the East coast, and so
how do you ultimately connect over Riah? Then we started texting,
and Um, I was back and forth. I was writing

(01:02:43):
a book at the time, and I was back and
forth from New York. I like rented a place in
New York and I had this sort of like romantic
vision of writing a book in New York and that's
where I was going to get my creative inspiration. So
I was there and saw like every two weeks for
like a year, and who was into who first? Um

(01:03:03):
it seemed mutual. UM, I think it was mutual. Okay,
maybe on dating apps works that way people in real life. No,
you know, I think it was mutual. Um, I've definitely
I'm very clear when I'm interested in something, and I

(01:03:24):
don't like to waste time or play games. So I'm
sure ostensibly I came off a little more like are
we doing this and we're not doing this because I
don't have time to be in this in between? And Okay,
so then you have a relationship, how do you decide
you want to continue with theoretically for all time? Um,
I'm pretty uh. For me, it's like if if within
a year, if there's you know, it's not going well,
I'm pretty good about being like, I'm gonna call it. Um.

(01:03:46):
I love what I do. There's a lot of things
I want to do, so I don't really sit around
and like wait for something to fizzle or work out.
I kind of tend to So how come he hasn't
been married till he was thirty seven or you don't know?
I think that that's a is that late? Well, they say,
they say, don't marry a guy over forty who's never
been married because he's set in his ways. Okay, but

(01:04:07):
these are you know in the year you know, nged marriage.
But as I say, so, thirty seven is within the limit. Okay,
but but it is still high. So it makes me wonder.
You know, he's not in a negative way, but his identity.
Well that's interesting because I also if I'm with someone
who's already been engaged or married, I'm like, well, they

(01:04:29):
proposed everyone, but specially I know someone like that, Yeah,
who thinks the way he proposed to like three women
before he married the first wife. Whatever. I know a
guy who is a very successful movie person who's been
engaged many times. In his theory is it's just a ring.
It'll make things copasetic. Guy, I don't, don't. I'm just

(01:04:52):
saying that person ever been married is now. Yeah. But right,
my guests, I'm not a big like you know, I'm
just want to be able to do what I do
in an effective way, and um, marriage just you know,
it's it's good. I also need walls around me, Okay,

(01:05:14):
but I'm trying to understand primarily why you're attracted. And
what I'm hearing now is either there's a reluctant or
our lack of knowledge in terms of where he's coming from. No.
I think he's just in an awesome and incredibly kind
and down to be with someone who's unconventional and gone

(01:05:36):
most of the time. So where you going to ultimately live?
I just bought a house in Wooden Hills, California. How
do you like to feel about living in the valley?
I love it. I'm obsessed with it. I wanted four
acres and to not see one house and my home
anywhere else would be forty million dollars, So I'm upset.
It's basically too Panga. I wanted to live into Panga Canyon.

(01:05:57):
So it's south of the boulevards. Is that what it is?
Is it? Yeah? I'm up in the hills, like to
Panga Hills, basically what it's called Woodland Hills. I love
it over there. Um, I like a good deal, and
I just think a lot of stuff around he's just
a bad deal, and I don't like noise. Okay. Is
there a gated community, yes, sir? Okay, So he's moved

(01:06:19):
out here, and is he working? Yes, yes, sir, he
works for Vice. And so it would sound like financially
you're more successful than he is. Um, you could say that, yes,
and so so you can you're gonna get a pre nap. Yes,
but he comes from his family. You know he wants it.
There's no question about it, no awkwardness whatsoever. But is

(01:06:40):
there awkwardness that you earn more money than he does. No, weirdly,
because he pays for all his own stuff and really
goes out of his way to be like, I'm covering
this and he's just very um traditional is not the word,
but gets ahead of that. There's never been a weird
conversation about that. And then I think a really good
life hack for this is when we go on trips.

(01:07:00):
Because I get paid to post on social media, We'll
do like a free room for me to post on
social It doesn't feel like I'm like paying for trips
and I feel cooky. And you plan to have children,
I think so. I froze my eggs when I was
thirty three, which is a really good decision on my part,
if I may say so myself. I did it just
out of just fear alone. And then I'll probably end

(01:07:21):
up freezing embryos in the next couple of years. But
I don't want to do it right now. So what
would be the right age to have a kid. I
want to do in like two years maybe, Okay, that's
not far Okay, thirty seven, So I'm pushing I mean,
I'm definitely pushing it. That's why I ask. And whether
that was a motivation to get married, I don't. There's
just a gold rush in touring right now, and I
want to tour again and I uh in the next year,

(01:07:42):
and I don't want to do it pregnant. So how
many dates a year are you doing now? I'm probably
going to do a tour in March. Uh maybe? And
what kind of buildings do you play? I'll just do theaters, okay.
And as I say, you know, most musicians would say
they do it for the one or two hours on stage.
You with the same viewpoint? Uh oh, I see. You

(01:08:02):
mean you get paid to travel, not to perform. Yeah.
Oh no. I I live for stand up. Um. It's
one of the only things that brings me real joy
and I love doing it for people that are in um,
other cities, other places. What do you think of weird
stand up is today? In general? Couldn't be a more

(01:08:23):
um exciting, uh, the truth place to be and not
to mention, lucrative and bigger than ever, right, you know?
I mean there's definitely, like, you know, comedians, you'll hear
us complaining in the green room about who's this YouTube
star who's playing that theater? And wow, why is that
podcast guy selling out this you know venue there. There's

(01:08:47):
always gonna be that sort of stuff. But I think
that just because of podcasting and social media, Um, people
are it used to be like there's five slots on
Comedy Central, there's you know, if you don't get to
tonight show, you don't get to sell tickets. Now it's like,
you know, different points of views are propping up and
people are getting famous that deserve it. So what's the
ultimate target, the ultimate goal for you? Um, I'm actually

(01:09:08):
starting a podcast in a couple of weeks and I'm
very excited about it. Um, that podcast look like I
was very trepidacious about it for a long time. Um,
it's gonna just sort of be whatever fascinates me. It's
gonna be scientists, it's gonna be artists, it's gonna be therapists,
it's gonna be comedians, it's gonna be beauty X like
anything that I'm sort of curious about because I spend
all this time with these like incredibly smart people, and

(01:09:29):
I realized I'm not Why aren't I? Why don't other
people get to listen to this? Um? So that's part
of your life, you know, As I say, you seek
out these people were experts in their area. Yeah, I
just I like to surround myself with people that are
just generally better than me. Um uh. Maybe it's just
me being insecure or something. But I made a movie
about neurology, and I end up spending all this time
with these incredible neurologists. Um. And they were just telling

(01:09:53):
me all this mind blowing stuff, and I was like,
why are we recording? This? Is crazy? And have my
friends are unbelievably be brilliant comedians and when we're hanging
out in the hallway and we're like, why are we
recording all this? You know? So it's really very simple,
just the people I find fascinating and funny. Okay, but
like in a bigger goal, Okay, what's your ultimate destination? UM?
To be able to continue doing stand up and to

(01:10:14):
um never have to take a job that I don't
want to take for money. But it's not like world domination.
You want everybody in America to know your name or
something like that. Do people talk like that. Musicians absolutely do,
really absolutely, they say like, I want to be a
household name, well what I had. It really started with
the police because the guys in the police, well the
manager and the drummer, their father was in the CIA,

(01:10:35):
so they had lived in all these different locations. So
the manager said, ultimately, why don't we tour all these
places which no one else did. We'll go to India,
will go to Africa, We'll go to all these places.
And literally, you know, that's the early eighties, late seventies,
early eighties, but by time they're on MTV, that became
the goal, and of course the paradigm is completely shifted.

(01:10:57):
You would make a record and the goal that you
would be on tour. First it was two and a
half years, then it turned to three or four years
because you would go to every market and pick up
the money. Certainly as results of MTV. Up until like
the year, MTV was in every territory, so you were
either on MTV or you weren't, and if you were
on MTV, everybody around the world knew you. Okay, paradigm

(01:11:20):
is completely shifted, and people can't rest with that because
I realized this. Like seven or eight years ago. The
Empire State of Mind was a big hit and a
friend of mine was doing the tour and he goes,
I said, you know that means nothing in l A.
Forget that the song is about New York. Okay. So
we have all of these acts except for the TikTok
interaction with Little nas X. We have all these acts

(01:11:43):
that are paraded in the channels that theoretically give you
reach that are not that big. You look at tell
us we wrote a song about me. It's a dangerous subject.
But this record is a complete stiff. But if you
went back to nine, which was a big hit, everyone
knew the song We're never ever getting back together. You
ask somebody sing another song, they can't. There's a small

(01:12:06):
segment who are fans. So if you go back to
what I'm saying, it's like perfect, I say, David Brooks,
you think of the movie Guy. Okay, it's like the
New York Times. So when people, I mean, I find
this myself, I used to think, well, if it was
written in the New York Times, it was written in
these places. People are aware of it. They are not,
So the destination becomes different. So we're all on our

(01:12:27):
own vertical. But the result of what's happened about the
seven eight a year, the last seven or eight years,
there's internet cacophony such that it is harder than ever
to grow your audience because the audience is inundated with messages,
and what ultimately makes them connect is when they hear
it from a trusted source as a purveyor. You're not
really sure who those trusted sources are. It's that little

(01:12:51):
well as I say, but you don't know which person.
You can't say, oh, this particular person is the person
I need. And so it's funny. I mean, it's like,
you know, being on latent I TV. I never watched
Late Night. I just did two weeks of I'm sorry,
two months of press and still unsure what moved the
needle on my stand up special. I did three talk shows,
fifteen podcast, Today's Show. It was just like you have

(01:13:13):
to do all of it and just hope something sticks.
It used to be you do Howard Stern, you do Letterman,
you do Kim All your Ellen, and you're done. Well.
I'm at this point in time. I think I went
through this with Howard in his book, He's speaking to
his audience so dramatically, it's his act, my act whatever
is very unique. If you're not into it, you hate it,
that's right. And there's also there It used to be

(01:13:34):
like I kind of know these famous people. Now it's
you either have never heard of someone or you know
what they had for breakfast exactly. So now when I
do shows, it used to be like, yeah, my wife
likes you, and now I'm on stage of people like
how's your knee? It's people that know me so intimately
and will buy anything. You know, it's a it's a

(01:13:55):
more passionate audio, but it's you know, less of how
do you can as the as the purveyor how do
you feel about that? I mean quality versus quantity of fans?
I mean that's always the question is if you know,
fifty million people know you, but they won't pay sixty
dollars to see you, you know, what is that? How

(01:14:16):
is that useful? You know, if if people just yes,
But that's a math equation that there's the emotional angle,
which is totally different. Yeah for me. I mean, you know,
there's obviously like a bigger moral calling and um, you know,
well moral is a whole another thing. Yeah, exactly, So
I'm not sort of like getting into that. I think
for me, like the goal is to reach the maximum
number of people. Well, are you say, hey, I'd like

(01:14:38):
to sell out Madison Square Garden. Yeah, okay, but it's harder.
That's a kind of funny thing with Sebastian Maniscalco, whom
I don't find funny. Dare I vehemently disagree. The only
thing he did that I thought was funny when he
was talking about how you can't drop by anymore. I
love that. That was the Entimates game, right right. But
the point is people say, well, he's sold three Madison

(01:15:00):
Square Gardens. This is when he was announced for the
MPTV Video Music Works, which he bombed and hurt his career.
Used to be you couldn't even hurt your career. The
exposure be enough. But it's like Maroon five doing the
Super Bowl actually worked against him. Okay, they say, hey,
you know he did three medicines because of the Kaepernick thing.
I don't remember. Maroon five was on and they were
basically bad, and they were involved in all these things.

(01:15:22):
It used to be you got the exposure, okay, and
you put the tickets on sale. The next day. But
everybody knows who you are. But I also think, you know,
I mean this passion thing. It's like, you know, he's
got a very specific demographic, like you said, like his
demographic will go see him four nights in a row
that I know that most other people don't. They don't

(01:15:46):
understand that. It's like fish Fish will play one or
two weeks in Madison's were Guard at the end of
the year. We now know that. But if you read
the New York Times or you read that, the people
who think they know what's going on, they have no idea.
This is what's so fascinating to make. Yeah, well there's
the I mean the Emmy's how many people watch them? Yeah,

(01:16:11):
there's the blogger critical look as someone that comes from
the multicam world, which is multi caamras when people actually
watch but critics hate him, and we spend all our
time trying to get approval from thirty critics instead of
fifty million people. There is a point where you have
to decide do I want the cool kids to like me,
or do I want to be Walmart? Do I want
to be the boutique store. Were the Emmy rating shitty

(01:16:35):
because of the programming and other channels post. You know,
I think that this total overcorrection of we're so afraid
that someone's gonna be problematic because we're listening to this
two percent of the on Twitter, and we're so afraid
of offending somebody with our host choice because everyone's problematic
now ended up. I think it's my knee jerk. We

(01:16:56):
actually was a little bit different. When you're a little
too young for this and Kurt Cobain off off himself. Okay, uh,
the guy in sixty minutes, the crusty guy, his name
will come to me in a second. He wrote, what
a waste of life whatever. Eddie Rosenblatt was president of
the record company, and I spoke with him the next
day and he said something which really is always stuck

(01:17:18):
with me. He says, movies, when done right, are larger
than life. Music, when done right, is life itself. So
this speaks to your point about the knee, etcetera. When
you when people go to see you, they're not going
for a night of entertainment of good jokes. They want
to see you because you are the act. Because if

(01:17:39):
they watch on Netflix learning to get Better seats quite frankly, okay,
then but knowing I'm in the room and I can
yell something out and I'll respond to them. And also
we got to be smart. Now. You know we're doing
meet and greets after the shows. You're getting a picture
with my robot. You know, I'm signing a book like
it's the But the other thing is you are the
act all of your new roses, predilections, etcetera. Actors. It's

(01:17:59):
not the who gives a funk? They're an actor. So
why should I watch the Emmy's to see someone? It's
really somebody else's shows, right, That's one of the reasons.
And I think, you know, look like I you know, um,
the people that know me know I'm as you know,
pretty Um. I'm trying to think of a word that's

(01:18:20):
not going to be charged. Maybe progressive, it's just a
good word. If we're going to use the Emmys to
to lecture people about what they should be doing with
their votes, are there, whatever, it's it's just really it's
not an entertainment show. It's a celebrities or lecturing everybody.
I understand your point, but I think it's a very

(01:18:42):
small audience that's reacting heavily to that. Is that most
people are deciding whether or not to watch the Emmys.
They just want to see the dresses you're wearing. They
want to see a funny show. They want to see
Seth McFarland dance tap dance. They want to see Tina
fey and and Amy Poehler be funny. Okay, So, speaking
of all those games in the varying verticals, movies, television, books,

(01:19:04):
who do you think is knocking it out of the park?
Who are your favorites? Who are your favorites? Sebastian manis
of course. Um Ali Wong is killing it? Um Uh.
John Mulaney, I think it is really smart about the
choices that he saw him in that play with the
other guy. But I'm I haven't been turned on solely

(01:19:28):
by his specials yet. I know I'm the only thing.
It's okay, it's um. I can disagree with you and
we can consist, but the only thing is everyone is
against me on this um and Uh. I love Jim Jeffries. Um.
I think he's really good at knowing how to do
what he does and leaning his strengths. Bill Burr, I

(01:19:49):
love the way he just does what he wants to do,
and he's like, I'm not going to do five D
talk shows to promote him. To let the work speak
for itself. Um, his touring business is unbelievable. Um Uh.
Other people in TV, you create TV shows? What TV
shows do you watch? I watched Succession obviously because I'm
not a monster. Um. I watched a lot of things

(01:20:12):
that I know I have to watch, Like there's a
lot of like homework viewing of this is whatever. Forget
that when when you actually do watch of your own choice,
and so many of my friends do. I end up
watching because I have to, and then I have enjoying it.
Like I just watched Dead to Me, I just loved it. Listen.
Lisz Feldman was on Two Brook Girls and uh, it's
just unbelievable, unstoppable. Um Russian doll a friend of mine

(01:20:33):
made uh Leslie and Natasha. I was just blown away.
Someone who's had to make stuff. I was just like,
the editing on this alone is causing me agit. Um Uh.
Other things that I watched I watch all specials, um
for obvious reasons. I watched a lot of documentaries, a
lot of documentaries series. I was watching that Abstract show

(01:20:53):
which is like that interview art show on Netflix, which
I found really interesting. I watched a lot of stuff
about robots because I have one, which root. I have
a robot that looks like me. Um, that's at the
end of my special. Um, i'll show it to you.
But this is audio, so you can into you just
so we can get your reaction on audio. So she um,

(01:21:15):
you know, is constantly being updated. And I'm sorry, trying
to learn as much as I can about robotics. And
that's question the future robotics in entertainment because you know,
everybody has a robot, you know, three months later it's
on a date if I'm asking one. So what does
your robot do that? She can talk, she can have
extemporarius conversations, she can make Instagram content, which is usually

(01:21:38):
what I use her for because I don't want to
have to do it all because I get embarrassed. Um.
But she's at the end, at the end of my special,
and she's going to start like touring and giving her
own talks. It but she's going to go by herself.
Yeah yeah, she's she has an agent at U t
A and she is going to go to speak at
colleges and tech conferences. Okay, So how did you get
into this? I got into this because in this last
special I ended up writing a lot about sex, robots

(01:21:59):
and butts in general. I'd like forty minutes in my
last special about it, and then I wadn't watch. But yeah,
but that shows that I obviously clearly um. But basically
I just watched watched the special and you guys will see.
I don't want to spoil it, okay. And books, reading, magazines, newspapers.
What do you read? Books, magazines, newspapers. I do try

(01:22:23):
to read books. Just got roon in Pharaoh's new book
Cannot Wait to Dig in Anything. Joe Rogan tells me
to read. I read, um, anything human nature, technology, what
social media is doing to our brains. Um is usually
anything that I can write material about. So are you?
I read one called The Shallows just now, which is
about how the Internet is changing our brains like that

(01:22:45):
basically the way. So you're into reading nonfiction? Nonfiction? Oh
only yeah, nonfiction. I'm actually about to pitch Gary Steinart's
new books Super Sad, True Love Store his new book
what am I saying? Like success? No? Like success? That
was the best book I've read in like three or
four year to books ago. He wrote Super Sad True
Love Story, which is the most brilliant, brilliant books I've
ever read. Um, it was being developed. It's a drama,

(01:23:07):
which I think it should be a half hour comedy.
So we're pitching that um soon. That was like the
last nonfiction book I read at night was so good
I didn't want to read another. Well, obviously you're full
of energy if your home alone or you like, is upbeat. Um,
I conserve my energy. And I'm really boring, but I'm
on your podcast and I want to make sure that
I'm good. I mean, how's your mental story will collapse

(01:23:27):
when I get in your mental state? Are you someone
who's tends to be happy tends to be depressed? Um?
You know. Usually I'm just gonna be honest with you.
I think in comedy you're as happy is your last set.
So if I have a great set, I'm in a
good mood. If I have okay, So, if there's seven
nights in a week, how many are you working tonight? Yes, sir,

(01:23:51):
get the last factory in the comedy story. And I'm
working on new material, and new material is always like
like a you know, trudge through quicksand and um, you
know my mood is I'm not gonna lie greatly impacted
by So just one thing you're working on now, I'm
working on. I'm coming for the ballet, and I'm coming

(01:24:13):
for charities that I think are scams. I have a
bit about some charities that I think is okay, give
me your take on balt because my parents dragged me
finally said, I think it's great. I just the bit
i'm working on. I'm not gonna do a comedy in
front of nobody in this cement room, but I do.
I'm just working on a bit that I think is
an interesting conceit of, Like I think anything should go
away if you couldn't pitch it today as a new idea,

(01:24:36):
Like if you're going to pitch ballet today, it's going
to be awkward. It's an exactly how about base Blake
put in the same category, you know what you really
could we have? What is that? It's just a bunch
of guys in their forties who might kind of work out.
I think older than that. I don't know enough about
baseball that even pitch it as a joke. I'll have
to learn, because that is a good one. Well, you

(01:24:57):
know exactly, and there's a number of things you know
from that our past say that people are reminiscing about.
It's like Trump go back to you know what once was?
What was wasn't so great? Yeah, right, right, right, let's
go back to coal mining exactly, Black Line. Well, at
least I had a job. Yeah, the nostalgia of not
having antibiotics. Um, but that and then a lot about

(01:25:17):
how I were obsessed with privacy. Now all of a sudden,
and you know, I mean, my phone number is getting leaked.
It's like I remember the days when we used to
have a book right full of numbers and addresses, and
they would just throw it at your house. They were
all over the street. Do you remember phone books everywhere?
I mean we used to like that. Listen, did you

(01:25:39):
watch a breaking bad movie? No, I haven't seen it yet.
It's not great. But the only thing what do you like? Oh?
I like a lot of stuff. Okay. It's like, you know,
if you read the New York Times book review, and
they always be what are you reading? People always up
pick up obscure stuff to look good. So there are
a couple of obscure things. But I'll say I loved
most of this ship. I want I binge. I don't

(01:26:01):
watch when it's on. Okay, okay, So like the Americans,
I thought was great, brilliant. One of those shows that
ultimately gets better. The documentary about the Bogwan on Netflix, right, okay?
The one about the nun before that, that was really good.
The nun who got killed, Oh you gotta watch. You
know that I killed the nunther got killed? And you

(01:26:23):
know it was the U in Baltimore. God, I can't
remember the name. I don't know. Did you ever see
the woman who wasn't there or the impostor which one
is the impols older? That's the I don't want to
spoil it for everyone. The guy who was from Melbania
and he ended up going to Dallas as a missing kid?
Is that one I did? I thought you were talking
about one of the Rockefellers, you know, you know the

(01:26:44):
guy who faked being a Rockefeller. Oh yeah, amazing. I
love that Charlatan body snatching. But my number one recommendation
when it comes to television is Happy Valley. If you
watched Happy Valley, Happy Valleys an English show, the woman
is on it, you see before she's the most successful.
This is a drama Happy Valley. Yes it's an English

(01:27:05):
b BBC show, but it's on She's one of the
most successful what TV? She is literally the most successful
TV actress in the UK. Uh this? Uh? Katherine who her? Absolutely? Really?
I didn't know that. Sorry, you guys aren't seeing this?
Um well read her name. It came on. I cannot

(01:27:27):
wait to see it. I thought you were going to say,
like Katherine Tait or something. Um No, I watched everything.
I have to watch the homework stuff. I watched clips
usually the next day. Um, I want to go one more.
This is an agent to turn me onto this. There's
a French show about the town in Uh, France during
the Second World War called a French Village. If these

(01:27:49):
are like sixty five episodes, it's great, okay, But then
it turned me onto another show. That show has deeper meaning. Okay.
There's a show called Spiral. It's a French cop show.
Where are this wild French cop show on Amazon? Phenomenal? Okay,
so like six seasons? Did you watch The Bodyguard? Are
you like that? And I watched all that? But this

(01:28:10):
is that's good? This is a like a level above
now as I say this Spiral, which is a co
production between Canal Plues in the BBC. You know, it's
I watched because these actresses and actors. We've seen him
in other shows and it gets better every season. But
you know, it's like watching a cop show in an
American DV if the actors were moving, you know, much

(01:28:32):
more skilled and there was war time put into it.
It is nice to watch actors that I don't recognize
at all. There's something just I think that for me
the experience of watching television. I don't know if this
happens to you with music or whatever. It's like, oh God,
I auditioned for that, or I know that actor, Like
it's just it really does take the magic out of
that Meryl Streep. I always see Meryl Streep acting. It's like, yeah,

(01:28:54):
she can act, but it's always Meryl Streep. You know,
I can't get into it. It is like and then
I'm like, after like making enough movie and TV, I'm
always like that was a d R, Like, oh that's
a I can tell when something my fiance hates me.
It's like when they pick up the cup to drink
and you know it's totally or when they turn their head,

(01:29:14):
and it's like, well, I guess I'll cut you lighter.
Who mixed this? Okay? A couple of other things. This
is an old documentary, but legendary. Did you see capturing
the Freedman's okay? And then did you see the one
with triplets? What were they called? Oh? Yes, of course.
I was in a hotel room in Michigan screaming. Where

(01:29:36):
was I? I I don't remember. It was mind blow. Those
people who don't know. It's about three you know, Jewish
babies in the Jewish family services, and I could say
this Jewish who are separated at birth and then reconnect.
That's it is. I was a dog, even though there's
people like the twists are crazy. I knew twists were
coming and it just blew my mind. Loved it, especially

(01:29:58):
at the end. What's the one in Florida? The guy
used to take the photographs and he died. That's another.
Listen to the Ted Bundy tapes. Ted Bundy was alive
and killing people. Where my girlfriend from tallahasse He was
so I was very familiar. It's like escaping Dana Mora.
I'm not watching that. I read about it the newspaper.
My god, that's so funny. I'm so fascinated by the

(01:30:20):
the idea of releasing ted, But there's just what is
going on with us that we want to hear? This
is it? Is it? Are we getting into this weird
Roman colosseum entertainment like late stage late stage capitalism. Just
watching I mean Twitter now really is the new colosseum,
watching people get humiliated and detracted and taken down and abused,

(01:30:43):
and we're just piling on and and some of this
entertainment is like I don't need to see that. Well,
you know, the change was in when we are the
Irhana hostage situation. That's when it flipped from the Vietnam
era Let's question America to American do no Wrong, and
now we have two camps and it's like really crazy.

(01:31:04):
But there was one other show, the Hassan Special, so
he's so great, you know, the one where he talks
about growing up in Sacramento. That was unbelievab brilliant. He's
so brilliant. There's also I'd missed, just since we're talking
about this anyway, to not mention V because I remember
listening to the showrunner of Veep, I think on the
NPR something talking about how because of what's going on

(01:31:26):
in the news, it's so hard to uh right jokes
because everything's you can't Like they had like a p
tape joke and then it was in the news. It
was just like, how do you write comedy in this
space with how outrageous the news has become. It's actually
really becoming a problem for comedy. I mean, you know,

(01:31:46):
people want to say comedy is easier than ever now
these jokes just right themselves. Like, first of all, the
stuff isn't funny. No one wants to hear about Trump
on stage. I don't want us to hear about this, really, nobody,
no one wants to hear about it. Can you see
you can you hear an audible X tail in the
room if it comes up? Okay, what all are at capacity?
What is uh contemporaneous in culture that is good material?

(01:32:08):
I think, you know, I I think that this, like
you know, and I don't say this in a pejorative way.
I'm not like a PC culture is ruining comedy people
person at all, But I do think that we tend
to be responding to the narrative of like blogger culture
instead of what America actually wants. To hear about. So
I see a lot of common comedians going like, we
are not allowed to see Trinity anymore. It's like everyone's like,

(01:32:31):
what we're not like most people don't't know what you're
talking about exactly. We have to say they now instead
of him, her, and everyone's like, I don't have health
insurance asking about this is why SNL is so bad.
There's no shared culture. Never mind that they can't get
to a joke at the end. Problem. I love SNL.

(01:32:55):
It's like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They
should have closed different. I'm fascinating. What I'm what I'm
fascinated now is we have talked long enough, not intentionally,
that it's not that your personality has changed, your presentation
has changed because you know, hearing you on the RAF,
it's because you come in when you're on Howard, it's

(01:33:18):
like joke joke, and I feel like I'm always so
boring on Howard, whether or not you are, which I
don't think you are. The point is you are very quick.
They don't come any quicker than you. So I think
that you know, being a male involved with you probably
very challenging, and I think very challenging that's where you're

(01:33:43):
asking me so much. I would think that your boyfriend
doesn't speak that much. He's capable of speaking, but he's
not dominating the conversation. He's I'm actually pretty beta in
my relationships. I don't want to have to be in charge.
That's not what I was saying. Okay, what I was
saying in terms of it's like, you see the debate
every week that this person spoke this much, this person

(01:34:05):
spoke that much. I would assume that you do the
great majority of speaking. Forget what the underlying nuances. I
see where, I see where you're going. And I also
think that he's a guy who can accept you wards
at all, which most other people cannot. M how dare you? Um?
When you find the right guy, it's like a needle

(01:34:26):
in a haystack. Not everybody can accept me either. You
got to find somewhere kind of meat. But I'm also
believe it or not. Our biggest complaint in our relationship
is really more we don't talk enough because I'm always working.
I'm actually but you don't talk enough that you don't
talk about important personal subject It's like, okay, we're doing this,
we're doing that with the book the flo it's a
lot like I am not very like delicate, and let's

(01:34:46):
talk about every little thing. I'm like, it's fine, there's
no point in our So are you the guy in
the relationship. I don't know what that means because I'm not.
My girlfriend is the guy I would like to get touched.
You're not going to break up? There's no point in
having this fight. Win take it like, I'm very like
that that's hard. It's just we're not going to break up.
If we're not. If we are, we're not. Let okay

(01:35:08):
forgetting on the time, but don't don't. Don't people at
some point need to be heard. I got you, we
got the rest of our lives. Let me know. Can
we do next? Can we put a pin in it? Like,
I'm just very like, so wait, So let's assume I'm
your boyfriend and you're running out the door. Yeah, at
what point do I get my time? What do you need?

(01:35:29):
I don't need anything. I just need friends. Show that
he just recommended me on the podcast. I just need
you to understand me and hear what's going on. So
I feel like that we're connected. Okay, Well, I'm not
in a place to hear it right now because I'm distracted.
Can we do it at a time where I'm more available? Okay,
so let me help my book. When is that your book? Well,

(01:35:49):
you sound like like your palm pilot. That's a that's
a phrase. Okay, we still talk about records, you know,
instead of trying. I'm also big on the three day
rule of if we're hot and emotional about something, let's
talk about it in three days. Great days, three days,
three days. You know today's world where someone gets killed
and it's not even news in the afternoon. If we

(01:36:09):
have an argument, I haven't even remember emotional and three
days with this might be a different conversation. Let's have
three days. But the world runs on emotions, is like
the line. I think inherently it does. But that's like Twitter.
People are offended, you know, that's like training and all
this other stuff. Not everyone's offended by it. But yes,
uh you know for me, I just I have learned.

(01:36:32):
I'm very economical with my time, and I think arguing
while emotional, arguing well intoxicated on a dress, three days
have passed. You are living three days past, because in
three days I can probably go you know what that was?
My fault. Right now, I'm gonna be defensive. I'm gonna
you're gonna be dismissing, and I got it. Three days later,

(01:36:54):
you're gonna say it's mindful. Gotta go. Maybe, Look, we
have a shared calendar there, you know, we have a thing. Don't.
Let's not fight twenty minutes before I have to drive
to this podcast. I'm already laid for, and um, you know,
he's very he's he's uh. I'm lucky and so is
even it's an afternoon. Is there any like date nights

(01:37:17):
at certain times when it's all when I'm not running anywhere,
so we can talk. Yeah, of course I don't. We
don't not talk, you know. I just my thing is like,
I don't I don't need to get in little emotional
fights all the time to feel alive or I don't
conflate that with passion anymore. Okay, playing the psychiatrist where
you grew up and you said you took care of yourself,

(01:37:39):
your needs are very low on that level. It depends
on who I'm in a relationship with, you know. I mean,
I'm sure you're into like attachment styles and strategies and stuff.
If I'm with someone who is avoidant, I get very needy.
And yeah, so it's sort of like if I'm with
somebody who's unavailable, I mean before recovery, it would trigger
my abandonment ship and I would be needy and what
are you doing? And then and and when I'm with

(01:38:00):
someone who's self contained and healthy, I as a result,
I'm able to be self, which is where you are now. Yeah,
so that's great. Don't be with someone who triggers all
your ship and makes you fine. WHOA. I think your
other point is better than that. I think you should
know you better than that. Very good. No, I think
that most people are not in touch with their own

(01:38:22):
issues enough. Yeah, I'm lucky that I have someone who's
he's you know, can see himself. And no, but as
I say, you forgetting that just specifically you say, don't
get yourself in situations. Most people don't know well enough
what triggers that, And then the older they get, the
more they're wary of going into a bad space, so
they don't do that. Yeah, I think it's important to

(01:38:44):
really just own your ship. And I sort of I
know the wounds and I know what my deficiencies are,
and I'm able to go. You know what if I
have this conversation with you now, I'm gonna get defensive
and my ego is gonna get involved, and I'm rushed
and I haven't eaten today and I didn't sleep. But
can we please do this in three days where I'll
be fair. Let's talking about something really a board? Did
you actually feel that earthquake? Lass night? I did? Do

(01:39:04):
you think I lied to you? No? No, no, I'm
I didn't think you lied. There was an earthquake. I wasn't.
I was not asleep yet even I was thrust for
it Hills, yes, Woodland Hills. It wasn't the Center Compton,
it was, yes, But it was like very deep, I
guess because I normally feel all this ship. It was

(01:39:24):
like it was I don't know if it's just my
house or something. I don't know, but I was like
thrust up. I also have like a little chandelier that
I was able to see right, and I have dogs,
and there's animals and there's coyotes and ships. So I
was like up and I couldn't come back to sleep
for some reason. Scott, how we shake me to my core?
How long did it shake? For? Two seconds? It was
very short. I didn't. I still not over the ninety

(01:39:46):
four earthquake. I wasn't here, but it seemed like it
was traumatizing. I'm a late night but not quite as
late night as I was then. But you know, it
was like at four twenty in the morning, and I
had been in bed for like five minutes, and it
was like a seven forty seven than was flying ten
ft above my house. What happened in your damage, Well,
the first thing I did was I ran out of

(01:40:06):
the house where I wasn't wearing any clothes, and my
neighbors were dealing with me. I thought I was gonna die,
so I ran out of that that ran out of
the house, and the the insulators on the on the
telephone poles, they were blowing up and the world was shaking.
I literally couldn't stand up straight. And then my neighbors

(01:40:28):
came out and we talked to I was wearing nothing,
and then we talked like I was fully closed. Everybody
was completely shot in shock. Huh, so are your neighbors.
I bet you live in a fancy neighborhood, not at
that time, but in any event, uh. And then it
shook for the following month, really pushed me over, I
mean really fucked me up. I did a lot of damage, right,

(01:40:49):
didn't take points. Yeah, but it shook. Ironically it was
epicenter with north Ridge, but like if you were in
Beverly Hills you were basically much better. But where I
and Woodland Hills was actually pretty good because my sister
lived there at the time. But in uh, Santa Monica,
buildings fell apart and everything. It was just you know,
the freeway broken half. It's a nightmare. It's really a

(01:41:12):
living nightmare. And word do as they say, Well, I'm
not going to move away live Well, I did live
in Santa Monica. Now I live with my girlfriend in
Sherman Oaks, you know, okay, in the hills. So because
you gotta be able to drive to the west side.
This is like an argument. I would like to live
on the west side. She doesn't. I don't know where
I live or whether what side it's on, but I

(01:41:32):
love it. Well, the thing about now is it's like
we're behind the screen. I could be behind the screen anywhere,
it doesn't really matter. That's true, that's correct. I know
I FaceTime meetings. I don't I don't go to meetings anymore.
I usually do them over FaceTime or calls. Okay, I
think we've covered anything you have to say. Um, I
don't think so. I don't think so. I don't know

(01:41:53):
what I was really walking into here. How is this
different from other other we'll call it an interview that
other with other people. You are intense in a good way,
in a good way. It's definitely more personal than I anticipated.
I don't. I thought we were gonna be like talking
about like I don't. I don't know for I thought
we're really talking about like business. Well, one thing I

(01:42:16):
don't want your personal life is your business, right. But
one thing I don't want to do is asked the
same fucking questions everybody else. As I was dreading you
asking me if it's harder to be a woman in comedy,
I was waiting for how did you get started? I
was waiting for, like, when did what was your first thing?
So this has been a complete delife, trust me to
complete departure completely surprising and definitely shook me out of

(01:42:37):
my three hours sleep that I almost I did try
to reschedule you guys, and he wouldn't let me. No,
I've learned, you do it now. It was wild. He
was like, I'm in Santa Monica. I was like, Oh,
this is gonna be a this is gonna be a
slam dunk. I was like, I haven't slept much. I'm
getting a migraine. I want to be an optimal You
seem scary. Let me do this when I've rested more.

(01:42:58):
And he's like, nah, today it works, Listen I have.
I was like, I have a migrant. I even slept
for three hours. Can I please do it when I
can be my best self? He's like, see it, don't listen.
I've had this Like, you know, I fly a lot
outside business, and I found if somebody will come to
India and six months and then you say, well, you

(01:43:20):
know six months isn't really that because all we're gonna
do it again next year. You better go now because
anything could happen. I mean you were available today. You
know you could be hit by a bus and we
could never do it, or you could have to go
to New York. You were too excited about me being
hit by a bus first of all. Second, are you
team Scooter Braun? Uh? I would probably I'm not a
verse two Interviewing Scooter Braun. Why why did you just

(01:43:43):
mean like team that whole? I'm just now I have
just a couple's music questions. Your music I a member
of his group? Is that what you're saying? Like Team
Taylor or Team Scooter? Wasn't that the duel? Oh you're talking? Okay,
she wrote a song about me, so anything I say
has to be waited that way. So she is wrong

(01:44:05):
on this issue. What do you think I don't know
enough about it? Well, it's very simple. She he owned
the music and she wanted to buy it back, and
he wouldn't let her know. That's not the way it is.
Somebody owns one of your TV shows, We're gonna use
easier numbers because TV is so much more expensive. Is
it like packaging? Somebody owns your TV shows. Let's just

(01:44:25):
for the sake of discussion, call it twenty episodes at
ten million dollars a piece. That's two million dollars, and
they tell you we're gonna sell it. Okay, Okay. Now,
let's also assume that you're worth seven million dollars. Okay,
so you could always step it and buy it, so

(01:44:49):
you can't complain when everyone knows and you personally know,
and your father is on the board of the record
company where they are discussing whether to sell it or not.
You could have bought it, okay, So when they sell
it to anybody, how the fund can you complain? And
as far as it being Scooter braun see this is okay.
By the way, I don't know. Okay, No, but you

(01:45:13):
expressed earlier that you are aware of your audience and
how you come across. She is not. So she could
do one of two things. She could own her identity,
or she could go away for a while, go to
college and actually learn there. A number of actors and
actresses have actually done that. See see how that is.

(01:45:34):
But especially look at you know, Britney Spears. She's like,
you know, you know, a hollowed out person. So when
you've been famous for a young age, you are not
in touch with the world. So when you go back
to Twitter every day, I got people emailing me that
I'm an asshole and tweeting that I'm an asshole all
the Taylor Swift. If I even mentioned her name, the
tweets come down. Okay, But forgetting Taylors. How come she

(01:45:56):
of all people doesn't know not to fucking respond? She
is so un educating this issue. She had her squad,
she tried to bring everybody in. Then people read it
as fake. It's like I know all this ship and
I'm like a Zilient as famous as you. I don't
know anything. No, no, no, it's got nothing to do.
You know that there are certain things you can say

(01:46:19):
on social media that people are gonna really blast you about.
I appreciated that she did ask people to register to
vote that I totally agree and I'm very positive. No,
My point is, you know certain triggers that you that
you could post online. You choose whether to say them
or not. And when you put one of those triggers
and you get the negative blowback, you said, I chose

(01:46:41):
to do it. I expect it. Whatever you don't put
it on, go how did this happen? That you're in
the game, you have to play by the game of
the game. The other thing that she doesn't understand, and
I don't want to put this as a takedown of her,
is she the parent I'm shifted and she didn't understand.

(01:47:02):
Now we have metrics Spotify top fifty on your for
those people don't know, on your computer version, not on
the handheld version. If you hover your mouse over those lines.
At the end, they will tell you how many streams
that track has. They also give you like the first
five or ten on the app. So the game has
shifted to how many streams you have on Spotify, not sales.

(01:47:25):
So she has this world domination. I think I'll be
in every every TV show, every news magazine, and that
will make it. It It doesn't work that way anymore because
we can look at the streams. Are people actually listening?
So now I'm sure you don't follow with that closely.
But she's doing all kinds of things that used to
be beneath her. She did an NPR tiny desk concert,

(01:47:47):
she did a singing something in Texas Stadium or maybe
the Nashville Predators. None of this. I don't want to
make this about Taylor Swift because believe me already, I'm
gonna get it you. I'm a student of the game.
You're a student of your game. Okay, the corporation owns it.
If I'm doing my own thing, I'm totally controlled what works.
What were I make a choice? So you're making all
these within that you set yourself free, but you don't

(01:48:10):
say interested in politics today, I'm gonna go do an
hour politics and say, how did the negative blowback happen?
What happened here? I might say, like Neil Young has
done intentionally a number of times. He killed his career.
You have this album Harvest sold out arenas and didn't
play any of it, played all new rocky music, So
he intentionally wanted to do that. I had a one

(01:48:31):
time I went to Lauren Hill, who's my favorite favorite,
and she did and this is not blamed. Who did
you say? Lauren Hill? And I She's be able to
do whatever the hell she wants. I want to be
able to do whatever. Comedians are different is we have
to play new we have to do new stuff. You
haven't heard. You don't want to hear the hits. You
come to hear new stuff. And I remember Lauren Hill

(01:48:52):
did some of the you want to go and sing along,
but that artist has sung the song fifty million times
and might not want to do, you know, And she
did had a couple of her songs like in a
different way, and we were all like, we can't sing along.
It was just like, well, it's an interesting thing because
it used to be you could promote that you're doing
new material to scare off those people. But for the

(01:49:14):
same reason, you can't reach everybody with any message today
like Todd Rummand did that. He said I'm doing this
material and people came and they were pissed. Anyway, people
ask for their money back. If they don't, usually don't.
They really just go online and bitch or tell their friends.
But what ultimately is the point is if you want
to trade on your old material, you have to play it.

(01:49:35):
Did you talk to anybody in these whos we're talking
to Mick Jones, a foreigner the other day, you have
to play five or six songs. Jimmy Buffett, he's got
a certain day, tells them like, you know, not the
Core eight or something. They have to play and you
have put yourself in that, or you can start over
in clubs trying to make it. Garth Brooks tried to
do this. He even changed his name because Garth Books

(01:49:57):
Garth Books is once again you're young or so. He
put on an album called Chris Kains. He wanted to
make it as a rock star because really his show
was rock Okay, he was rejected. People want wanted uh
Garth and he went back to being Garth. But it
was clear what he was doing. Yeah, you know, I'm
changing my identity. You're either in a hard to evolve. Yeah,

(01:50:17):
I mean it is interesting like when I am touring,
like I'm doing stuff that's not about relationships or dating,
and and I sort of look out and I sail
these bachelor parties and girls nights and I'm like, gos
shit exactly gonna work? Yeah, yeah, you work so hard
to get a certain uh fan base, then you get them.
You gotta you know. I went to this doubleheader tour.
They played ballparks at this point, it's almost like fourteen

(01:50:39):
years ago, and it was Brian Adams and Deaf Leopard
and they would switch headliners each night. So we're in
Minneapolis and Brian has to play during the day. If
you're a rock act, that's death. Like the Rolling Stares,
They're never gonna play during the day. Okay, he got
on the audience wasn't reacting. I'm standing on the side
of the stage. He literally took the set list and

(01:51:00):
tore it in half and looked at everybody in the
band and then proceeded to win the people over, like
do it as I say. And I said, that's a
master at work. But it's the same thing. You know,
you don't want to have a show. You want to
have a show, said, I did everything I could. Oh well, yeah,
I mean you've seen Bill Bird at that OPI and
Anthony video where he they were booing him this open

(01:51:21):
Anthony crowd and then he turns it into killing. It's
it's literally the greatest most uh uh, I mean, like
comedy hero, Okay, say any other music questions. I just
I mean I've I'm really fascinated by just all the
ship and you know, well, thank you, but this is

(01:51:41):
your It sounds like you came in with a list
of questions. No, I'm just I'm fascinated by all this ship.
It's just it's wild. Well, the point is committe, okay,
I used to relate there are errors gay music as
a results of the Beatles, etcetera. That's where you went
from truth, and that's FM radio comedy. Is you go
for truth? It started really forget the comedy boom on cable,

(01:52:04):
with the improv online whatever. The Simpsons had a more
incisiul kind I'm try you know, they could they could
look at it and pope fun in ways that no
one else would. So you felt like only cart exactly,
only cartoon characters to do that. So comedians that's one
of the reasons why comedy is so happy. They're speaking
truth in a world of complete bullshit. It's funny because

(01:52:27):
it's you know, everyone's like PCs culture is ruining comedy
and he's making it better because now it's like you
say something that's incendi or and it's like boom, it's
like three times the reaction. How do you feel about
people recording your shows? You use yonder but always yeah, always,
not like at the comedy store and stuff. When I'm around,
I also am not like saying stuff that's I'm not
I don't do that really. Um, it's more just annoying

(01:52:50):
because if someone puts it up, you're like, if it
gets a lot of you, I don't want to put
it in in my special. It's just more like it's or
just like you don't want anyone to hear before it's ready.
How about Michael Richards, should he be uh gone forever?
I mean he never really did stay exact exactly. It's
more like let comics do it. It's you know, stand

(01:53:10):
ups hard exactly, it's really hard and um, and also
you have to suck before you're good. That's right, and uh,
you know it was that to me was someone who
was not in control of That's a perfect answer, lack
of training and being in that We're we've all been
in situations like that before and it revealed sort of

(01:53:32):
a lot about sort of his character the way that
he handled it. Um. But I mean if he works
as an actor, that's none of my business. Okay, But
in terms of when ne' on stage and you're trying
out new material, it is you know, That's what people
don't realize that you have two things going on at once.
You're thinking and you're talking, but it's old materially you
know by heart, but new materially. Do you ever get
caught up we're saying, Okay, this is going to be

(01:53:53):
like a dangerous spot. Yeah, totally, but you sort of
cushion it sandwich of between stuff that you know does work,
so that you've got lifeline and you know something's about
to kill if that you know gets a little shaky. Um,
so you sort of pepper the new stuff in stuff
that you're I'm trying to say, is something saying something
that maybe you shouldn't say? I don't. Um, Yeah, like

(01:54:14):
I was just doing this big thing on uh, like
the Catholic church stuff and how nobody cares about the kids,
like all the meat too stuff. There was no markin,
there's no marchins, there's no hashtags, like no one cares
about the Yeah, there's no markin. There's no pr closet,
tiny dick hat like there's nothing, and um it. It

(01:54:35):
sometimes goes either either way and can get really awkward.
But the bit is kind of about how awkward it
gets when you bring that up, like why everyone's so
embarrassed to address it or acknowledge of course that it's happening,
the shame involved that it's like really one of the
most off limits subjects, um, the Catholic church stuff. So
that's that's either either kills or is like very awkward.

(01:54:57):
I was at the comedy store some week because we
were talking about doing something with the guy Richard. What's
you know the guy? He loud his name but you
would know him, So what did he do? He was
he was a comedian, but then he the guy wears
Glassard Richard Fuck, but no, no, I know Richard Lewis.
The only thing about Richard Lewis is you know Richard

(01:55:19):
Lewis funny. He's the same guy off the State. I
think it's an act experience. I can't believe it. A
comedian named Richard. It'll come back Richard. His last name
are fuck it is, you know who it is. But
that's not important. We're talking about doing something. So the
comedy store on a weeknight. Okay, all of a sudden,

(01:55:41):
like ten thirty at night, Richard Pryor comes on. Oh,
this is a long time ago. Richard Pryor comes on. Okay,
and this is not long after he burned himself up. Okay.
He lights a match and he starts, he starts telling
rich your prior jokes, all the jokes that people said.

(01:56:02):
When you touch the taboo, that's where the greatest laughs are.
And that's the greatest insect because it makes people challenge
their preconceptions. And it's also just comedy is surprised. It's
the thing no one else will say that everyone's thinking,
and the most surprising thing and the most artful way.
So I think it's just more exciting than ever to
do stand up right now. I also don't need to
say tranny, I don't need to say act like. I

(01:56:24):
don't think let's stay. The recent Chappelle's special, We're not
forget the political ship. Okay, you find it funny. Chappelle's
a genius, and um, I don't have to agree with
something to think it's funny. Now, I'm just talking in
terms of sheer laughs. Did you watch the last special?
Did you find it as funny laughing as previous work

(01:56:45):
of his. Well, I think there's always you know, I
think there's it's there's always it's weird. It's like things
are funny at certain times for different reasons all the time.
You know, there was definitely some cringe moments, but I
think that's okay. Now the cringe moment, I think, I
think I can go like the comics. I understand. I'm

(01:57:08):
not talking about cringe at all. I'm not talking about
touching the third rail. Yeah, I am talking about Now
that he's acclaimed as Chappelle, it gives him more room
to stretch out, and he is. You know, it comes
out with the outfit that says the Sea on it
and all this other stuff. I find that the stories
are dragged out a little bit more so. The last

(01:57:30):
are not as frequent as they used to be. That's
all I'm saying the subject matter different subject. I think,
you know, I think he's a genius, and you know,
I I hope one day I'm able to change my
style if I want to, you know, I think, I
just think and maybe you know, as a comedian, I'm

(01:57:52):
not just consumer of comedy. I love watching him evolve.
And I know what it takes bravery wise to let
a joke drag out, you know, I know how. I
know how easy it is for him to write a joke,
so I know if he wanted a joke to be there,
it would be there. So for me, whatever he's doing,
I know that it's intentional, and I know that he's

(01:58:14):
clearly built. Like I remember seeing him at Montreal. This
is like ten years ago or something at some theater
and he was I remember like between jokes, we were
all on the edge of our seat. Like the tension
that he builds with silence is such a big part
of what he does. And then when the joke hits,
it's even bigger because you're like releasing. You know, he

(01:58:37):
really stresses you out with his use of silence, and
I think a really exciting it's almost like performance art
um and uh, it adds an intensity that a lot
of you know, I'm I'm very like, I'm gonna make
you laugh every twenty seconds because I don't lose you
and I don't. I'm insecure, and I know my jokes permitted.
I got, you know, And I think because we know

(01:58:59):
he's such a joke writer. When there's not a joke there,
we know there's I believe there's like well staying with
you know, George Carlin famously changed his act. So Carlin
prior to what degree are they seen as because Bill
Cosby has been torn down for what you know, let's
not even go there. But are they forgotten amongst the
comedy world or giants? No, not in the slightest. I mean,

(01:59:21):
there was just a Carlin clip going around the other
day all over social media about like PC culture on
Larry King. I believe, um, you know, his bits are
still you know, very much I think relevant in the
comedy community. But the comedy community they still respect him. Yes, yes,
Like when said like and I think that the bar

(01:59:42):
for a great special, Like I remember, um, comedy comedian
I Revere called me and was like, yeah, that felt
like that jokes like a Carlin joke, Like that's sort
of the gold standard. Exactly, it's the gold standard. And
that's I think when you're writing. I mean, at least
for me as a comedian, I'm like, oh, George Carlin
right about now, like you we it's always in the
back of my mind, so you know, putting my foot

(02:00:06):
in my mouth one more of the time, uh, Billy Uh.
Bill Maherr was on Howard recently, within the last three
months whatever, So that's why Howard did Bill maher last week,
and Howard asked, who do you think of the great
comedians out there? Okay? And Bill maher said he thought
he was the best. Let's not even go there. Okay,

(02:00:26):
the question obviously takes a certain amount of huts, but
to say you're the best. But he had gone on
that's certain number of his king He was dead fucking serious.
But he had said earlier in the interview that some
of his jokes are written by other people. What's your
viewpoint on that? Look, I I that's not the requirement

(02:00:49):
to write your own jokes, you know. For I used
to write jokes for other comics. That's really how I started.
So I paid my bills, so good for those comics
that are getting that money. UM, I don't know. I
don't have a judgment around it. That is what it is.
It's not what I would personally do and do. Okay,
So when you write, okay, do you sit down with

(02:01:09):
a pad of paper or do you take a shower
and something comes computer? Writing every premise, everything I can
think of. They don't have to be jokes, yet go
for a hike writing them in my phone. I have
pages and pages and pages and not funny things that
I called down, start building, start highlighting, start Okay. So
there's never writer's block. You can sit in front of
the computer. You always have something. I mean, there's definitely,

(02:01:31):
like you know, sitting around calling people, running it by people, brainstorming.
But I make myself write everything down that's not funny
and then figure out why it's funny. Okay. We could
go on for good, but I don't want to hold you.
I have to go sleep. Exactly. You've been wonderful, You've
been very open, Whitney, Thank you so much for doing

(02:01:53):
the pod. Thank you. I'm nervous by Kendall Astro, who
was on this podcast, was like I did his podcast
and then all these industry insiders hurt it and it's
a very big podcast. That's not how she sounds. But no,
but I met Kendall the reason she's I met Kendall
Summit series, which is a whole another thing now, but

(02:02:14):
this is like six years ago. They have a place
in you Smartest Ship. And she was the first person
who told me she was going to do a snapchat story.
That's what really wrung. Mendell is one of my favorite
people that I've ever worked with. And it's been brief
and she goes, here's what's working, Here's what's not working.
She does, you need to get the new iPhone. You
cannot be posting on a freaking iPhone five like she noticed,

(02:02:36):
because I have, because I noticed. She's like, you gotta
hashtet like. She is so savvy and smart and clear
and direct and not you know, I I really want
to work with people who don't walk on egg shells
around my feelings. She will give me feedback. Um, she
is so solution results oriented. I just she's she's one
of the good ones for those people don't know. She's
a social media agent and more at U t A

(02:02:58):
in any event, and she was on the podcast. Absolutely
you can look her up in the back story. He's
going to handle the social media for this one, i'd
imagine to make sure you guys listening. Okay, Whitney, thanks
so much, Thank you. Next time spot left set

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