July 8, 2024 • 28 mins
Bobby and Eddie spent time with singer-songwriter Hannah Ellis, and they did a deep dive into her path as an artist. They explored Hannah's journey from Campbellsville, Kentucky to Nashville, where she pursued her dream of becoming a musician. Hannah discussed the roots of her passion for music, how Hannah Montana sparked her ambition to pursue her dream, her experiences performing at local venues, the evolution of her songwriting career, and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Show.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I were in the car record studio and we're doing
a podcast. You know we should do because Eddie's here
as well. We should do like they do the beginning
of football games. Okay, I'll go first by bones six
foot one, maybe six foot and a half, one hundred
and seventy five pounds, doctor, University of Arkansas.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Nice already lying great, love it, but there was no lot.
There's no lot, sorry, doctor, producer Eddie Sam he's the
state university. Six foot zero, you're not six and eighty
pounds all muscle.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, okay, that's good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It's good. Hannah ellis about five.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
No, No, that wasn't a trick to get her.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I was not going to anyone was no way.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Yeah, one hundred pounds even I graduated from the University
of Kentucky with a bachelor's to grow there.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You go.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
She's she's die hard Kentucky.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
You know, Bobby's a diehard Arkansas.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Ray discussed this.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah. We drove around in the hunday for like fifteen
minutes and they were like talk about just driving around
the hoad to talk about like journey and we're like
coach cow. It was very rare basketball. So That's really
all we talked about. While that's the footage they have.
Why did you go to Kentucky?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
There was only one option for me. Honestly, no, but
I really I always loved the University of Kentucky. Grew
up big Kentucky fan, and I did a program in
high school called GSP and basically, if you completed the
program and had certain testing scores ACT scores.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
They would give you a full ride academic scholarship.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You got a full riding Kentucky I did. Would you
get on your ACT I'll tell you what I got online?
Twenty eight? Oh my god, Well I got a thirty.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I was so mad.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I wanted a thirty so bad. I took it like
four times. But then you know how, like eventually it
just starts going down. I was like, all right, we're
gonna call this.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We're good here. So this is called bronze metal syndrome.
What just happened?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So they say that at the Olympics, people that win
the bronze medal are so much happier than people that
win the silver medal because people that win the silver
medal are like, I was so close to the gold
where bronze was like, oh, man, yeah I got so
I had the bronze medal there because I scored a
twenty eight, and I was like, oh, I got school
paid for wherever. I was pretty happy with that, and
(02:20):
then you went, I scored twenty nine. Ah, I hated it,
and she hit me with the silver medal. That's right,
thirty was the goal.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You're so right. I wanted. I wanted. But then you know,
like you said, free school was free school?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So what math was my worst?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I literally to this day it's like a joke with
my band or anything I do wrong, I'll just say, yeah,
I'm just really bad at math, because that's how.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Bad it math.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Can't you probably made it like a twenty five.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I know, I won't even tell you it's actually very low.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But it can't be that low if it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Great job twenty nine, But we're doing the math on
how you get tasty.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It looks like a nerd, though, like I wouldn't think
she was the nerd.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
This was a journey. Okay, this is a journey, and.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Now I guess I'm still at the beginning of mine,
this journey. We're just starting on the wagon trail.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
That's your hometown, Campbellsville, Kentucky, about two a little over
two hours northeast of here. It's two hours if I'm
driving it. But yeah, real small, but not as small
as yours quite. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
We had seven hundred people in Mountain Pine. What your
town population? Do you have a sign?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I would say, I would say now, it's probably actually
closer to like ten thousand because.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Street crazy Wall Street, because we have.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
A college there, and I think that's had like a
super big impact on just like people moving in and
jobs and all that stuff. But still got that small
town vibe.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And it's definitely how I grew up.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, musically, what was happening around your house that
made you want to get in? Where'd the love of
music come from?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Oh gosh, from my parents big time. So they are
both actually really good singers. They would sing at weddings
on the weekend and they would I always say that
I was singing before I was talking because I couldn't
hardly form sentences. But my dad will be like, all right, now, Harmon,
I was with your sister I was like three. So
we came up very musical in my house, singing in church,
(04:09):
singing in contests.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And so it was always no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I mean it's just funny because like, you don't you
only know what you know, right, I didn't know. I
don't think I knew where songs came from. I guess
I assumed the song or the artist wrote them.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
But then I didn't.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Even get into that side of it till I was older,
because yeah, there was no instruments, it was just singing.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What were you listening to, like at that young age,
what were you really into?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Okay, So when I was like really young, we were
pretty much like Christian music, only house right, like the
other music we was called secular music. My first secular
CD was a Martina McBride CD, which, no, yes, my mom.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Bought it for me.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
She was like, loved Martina. My dad was always a
die hard country music fan. But back in the nineties,
I mean there was a lot of like cheating and
drinking and my mom was like, no, no, we're not
listening to that up and here, and then Martina came
out and she was like, Okay, now this I can
get down with. But yeah, so, I mean tons of
like Kathy Tricoli, She's like a kind of a gospel.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Singer back then.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Now we did the Gatlin Brothers though that was that
was mom approved as well, but kind of came up
in that Christian world and then lots of country once
I figured it out.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
The first time you came to Nashville, how old were you.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Little?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
We came to auprey Land for like a vacation, so
like aprey Land had rides and stuff. I don't think
people even know that about Nashville now. And of course,
you know, my sister aren't dressed the same because hashtag nineties,
but uh yeah, we're in here like cowboy hats going
to aprey Land. And that was that was probably six
(05:45):
maybe you know, really little.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
When did you think that you could actually sing and
make a life? Was it before college? Because you know,
why do you go to college?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:57):
So I feel like there was a when I was
in like thirteen fourteen where it was like my dad
and some of it were kind of like, wait, she's
really good. And that was when like Leanne Rhyme's was
kind of happening, and or I guess had happened. And
I think there was like a moment where that was
like oh maybe that and then it was like, oh wait, nevermind,
We're not going to do that. She's too young.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
We're gonna let her make her own life choices. And
then it's actually.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Weird but funny story. I took my little sister to
the Hannah Montana movie when I was about three months
from graduating, already had my scholarship to college.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So you wanted to go to the movie. You just
needed a reason to say you wanted to get No. No.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
She was like a die hard Okay, she was a
die house and I took her to the movie and
I swear it was just like my come to Jesus moment.
I like was like bawling by the time I leave,
and I'm like, oh, I feel like this is what
I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I feel like I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
This the climb. It's the climb. I knew it.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
And uh I go home. I'm like crying. I tell
my mom, I'm like, I think I'm supposed to like
be a singer. I think that's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And she's like, let's call your dad, and so we
called dad and he's like, listen, miss, I start and
quit a sport every year.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
This is a commitment.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Of this is like different than that. He said, I'll
come over in the morning, we'll talk about it. So
we did, and I was very much like, let's go
to Nashville, let's move. And they were kind of.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Like, you have free school, and we just like we
need to like get you. We need you to like
suss that out.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
And they were like, but absolutely, we will do everything
we can to help you chase your music dreams.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And they did did you sing in school?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was in show choir.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
I always did the contest in the small towns, you know,
like I won.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
A couple of those where I would go to like
the regional or even the state. So I was in
FFA and I got to go to like.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
The national of that Singing of America.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yes, it's why I stayed in it for four years. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
So they did a singing contest and I got to
sing at Conseco Field House up in Indie and it
was like thirty thousand people and I was like, oh,
I'm way too comfortable doing this.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I was like eighteen. I was like, yeah, and when
you're at college, do you go and sing like at
any bar?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah? Oh yeah, like the four hour shows.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
How do your parents feel about you singing at a
bar though at eighteen?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Because oh they were there, Okay, let's go yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
It was totally different at that point because it was
just like, oh, this is helping her in her life
and in her career. And Eddie Montgomery had a steakhouse
I was like right outside of Lexington, Kentucky at the time,
so I would go there and play those like four
hour covers slash.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Please listen to this song I wrote shows You know,
what did your friends think when you were in college
doing this? Because like when I was in a band too,
when I met Bobby, and I'd make Bobby go to
the show. A lot of times, it's just Bobby, yeah
and a couple other friends, that's it.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
So my friends thought it was cool because I was
coming back and forth to Nashville, so they were like, oh,
this is like legit, she's really trying to do this.
Like sometimes my friends would make me like stand on
a table at one of the parties and sing to
prove to some other person that I was a good singer,
and I was like happily oblige.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Say less.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
But no, I mean they were really supportive. I mean
I played the ten roof up there, and they would
all come out and droves. I mean it was a blast.
It really was.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
When you finished school, how long until you packed up.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And moved Not long.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
So I actually graduated early because I knew I wanted
to come to Nashville. So I like finished all my
classes in three and a half years and graduated in December,
and then moved here in February. So I went home
for like a month like Christmas, do it, and then
I was here.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And when you come to a town like Nashville, because
there are different places that you can play. Had you
played at all in town? Was there a place that
you had called to say, I'm coming to town, can
I get on stage? Did that happen at all? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So, I mean definitely the listening room.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I was like emailing anybody who was getting a lot
of bounce backs at the time.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But I tried to get in there. I played. I
played at maybe Tequila Cowboy one or two, the.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Broadway things, but that wasn't really ever my thing, and
I knew that wasn't and kind of be my in
I would say when I really got here, I was
trying to get in the songwriter community, which.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Is why the listening room is probably.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Exactly exactly because that was still really early in my like, oh, songwriting,
co writing, that's how you develop artistry. And also there's
kind of this idea, which is not wrong in Nashville, that.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Like the way to a record deal is through a
publishing deal.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And that was definitely the thing when I moved here
back in twenty thirteen, Like everybody kind of that was
like the trajectory.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
You know, now it's so different, but so that was
really the big focus.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So when you move here and you want to be
a songwriter and yeah, I used to be a town
of get a publishing deal, right, then maybe you can
write enough songs that are good songs for yourself. Yeah,
So where do you go? Who do you talk to?
Is there a group here that as a new writer
you can go and kind of be like, hey, I'm
new here, what do I do?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Absolutely, I mean my first stop and the first stop
I tell anybody that's trying to come to town is NSAI.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's the Songwriter Association.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
And they're just super helpful in like connecting you with
people that are where you are, right like other new
writers in town other publishers that are willing to take
a meeting with someone that's really really green and.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Just kind of coach YOUO long.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
And they were hugely influential in my early days here.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
When you moved to town and you see that everybody
else in this whole town is really good, intimidating.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Oh absolutely, I mean you immediately get the uh, what
is the fish?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Thing?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Right?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
It's like a big fish in a small pond. You
are a very very small fish in a big pond.
I mean when I first moved here and I went
to some shows, I thought everyone was famous because.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
They were so good.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I was like, obviously, I just don't know who they
are because I don't know what's up. But like I'm
sending videos every night to my friends and family being like.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Have you ever heard of this person?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And they were just like as green as I was.
They were just really good, you know, but it was
it was fun.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Did that make you? Did it challenge you to get
better and intimidate you to do both both both.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
I'm super competitive naturally, and so anytime I see the bar,
I'm like, okay, well that's at least I have to
hit that or above and Also I was just out
and when I would realize that was before I knew
the like way to like, oh, you can't go up
and ask people.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I would just like be lying it right after the show. Hi,
well you're right with you know. That was so me.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But you know what, it worked a lot in those
early days because we were all young and trying to
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I mean, it was so funny. The second show I ever.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Went to in Nashville, the one where I'm taking all
the videos of the people I thought was famous, it's
the night I met Laney Wilson. We both had the
same boots on, and so we just sat down and
she was super new to town as well, and so
it's like then we.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Would just attack people together. It's less weird.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You know, how do you find your style in a
town like this when you're look in like, oh my gosh,
everyone has their own thing going, Like I got to
be different than everyone else.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah, I think that that was actually a bit of
an issue for me on the early days, cause I was,
like I said, so competitive that I was just trying
to do what was already working, and so I wasn't
chasing what is Hannah Ellis I was like, Okay, Taylor
Swift's doing it this way. Okay, Carrie Underwoods doing it
this way. And so I was more like emulating them,
(13:15):
you know, for probably those first couple of years, and
then it was like, okay, well I'm not doing that's
not working. And then you do finally get to this
place where you're like, oh, if I just do what
I do, naturally, people seem to gravitate towards that a
lot more so, I think it's just a learned art.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Unfortunately, to get a publishing deal, what were the steps
that you went through to take a while, And what
happens after you get a publishing deal? They get paid
to write songs.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, so I would say, yeah, I mean again, I
was just like I would write two and three times
a day, like just as much as possible, and trying
to kind of keep those connections I'd made in the
early days. And I would just send them songs no
matter what position, if they were A and R somewhere
or if they were because I interned at Big Machine
in the A and R department when I was in college,
and so I kept all those relationships and so I
(14:02):
just kind of send songs periodically and just say you.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Can tell me if they suck, just help me.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
And so music kind of just got passed from one
friend to the other, like, hey keep an eye on
this girl, go see a show of hers. And Janina
Appleton was at Word Country Word Entertainment started like a
little country arm and she was who called me and
was like, hey, I like your writing, but I also
like that you write for men, because so many women
(14:31):
were only writing girl songs and like this is like
mid two thousands, I mean, there wasn't a lot of
places for those to go. And so we started chatting
and I got my publishing deal in twenty fifteen. And
it was funny because at that time I would never
say there was a moment where I wasn't an artist,
but I would say I did have like, Okay, I'm
a songwriter and then an artist in those moments because
(14:53):
I was being paid to get songs cut, so I
focused on that a lot. In twenty sixteen, got some
cuts with like Carly Daniel, Brad Russell Diggerson, and then
I was like, okay, now back to me.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Is there an expectation that, Okay, I'm gonna write a
song somebody's gonna put it on hold, it's gonna be good.
Then they're gonna cut it. I mean, like, what's the
success rated that?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So I'm pointzh one.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
I think at first you definitely think song on hold
means song cut, and then it's like there's song on hold,
then there's song on hold by the artists, then there's
song that's cut by the artists, then there's song that
makes it on the record, like because I mean we
had a huge heart breaking yeah right, It's like we
had a huge heartbreak song where like I actually wrote
(15:38):
it with my husband Nick and Josh Kerr where Keith
Urban cut it, and I mean we were young songwriters
and we were all freaking out then like we didn't
even know until like we knew we cut it because
we'd heard the cut of it. Then the record comes
out and sound on the record heartbreak turn around, Tim
and Faith cut it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So everybody's like, oh, they're gonna use it on their tour.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Right. So in the promo video that you remember they
did this big show with the Ryman. In the promo video,
it's like the name of that song is on there.
You can see it, you can see them singing. It
didn't make the record, and it was just like that
is the most classic Nashville storied. Of course, my husband
Nick was like fine and putting it out myself, but
(16:20):
he did.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, yeah, he's like forget it.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
But I mean it was just such a crazy Nashville
story because that's like really common.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Actually, what's the money situation at this point, Like in like,
are you banking on these on these to get cut
and none these two? Are you kind of like, all right,
I make enough now to kind of just do this
and see what happens, or are you just kind of
like we need we need this. No.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I would say when I signed my deal, I was
still working multiple jobs because like you're trying to take
like the lowest pay possible just to get the deal
to like get your foot in the door. So it
wasn't enough to like live on I was. I was
a nanny and I would work for my dad's window company,
and that was that was not good.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
She was not a window and door salesman.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
But yeah, I would say the money thing was definitely
interesting because your draw is whatever you agreed to.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So it was a lot of odd jobs for a while.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
What was the next step, so you have publishing deal.
You have songs that What was your first song that
was cut on a record?
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I think the first one was I don't remember if
it was the Cassidy Pope song or I think it
was Daniel Bribery Messy. It was on like her record
A couple a couple of records ago. And then I
had one that wrote was Russell Dickerson around the same time,
called would You Love Me?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Those two came out.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I think those were the first of that like group
of artists that I got cuts with.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So when they put it on hold, then when they
cut it, yeah, Then when it makes the record, oh yeah,
then you're like, are you just waiting for them to go?
It could be the scene oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
And of course everyone says that like someone someone puts
that bug in your ear, whether they said that ever
or or not, I don't know if it's publisher or friend.
Like you're like, but maybe it's like the slowest ballad
of all time, and they're like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
That's funny. When did you reshift? And I won't say
you're focused, yeah, but when did you kind of move
more emphasis over to now you want to be an artist?
You write instead of a writer who's also an audist.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yeah, I feel like that happened. End of twenty sixteen
is when I went to Janina and was like, Hi,
so here's these five songs that I would be devastated
if anybody else cut because they feel so me and
so like my artistry.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And you know, to your.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Point earlier about finding yourself without me knowing it, when
I was focused on writing.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
For these other artists, that was actually where I.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Found myself because all of a sudden, I'd write a
song and I would be like, no, I will die
if someone sings this and it's not me. Like that
was kind of how I found It was more, Oh,
I couldn't share that it has to come from me.
That's my voice, not only voice, but like how I speak,
how I say things. And so I came to her
at the end of twenty sixteen with like a batch
of songs and I was like, I want to do
an EP. It can be self recorded, but as my publisher,
(19:07):
she was like, let me just see how I can
help you on this journey.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Do you still have to keep thurban version of the
song you wrote somewhere?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Someone has it? I bet, I bet Josh Kerr has it,
you go ask him.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So how'd the record deal come about?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
You know, I was signed at Word Country, then it
got bought by Curb, So my publishing kind of got
swallowed up in that to where I became a Curb writer, right,
so I'm in the building, and then they moved the
record label over to where the publishing is, so I
still had the same publisher. Jeannine she she kind of
got swallowed up in that whole thing as well, and
she was so she was so amazing to where she
(19:45):
was like, I don't want to send stuff too early,
but whenever we both feel like you're ready, I'm just
gonna email it upstairs and see what happens. And so
somewhere around twenty eighteen she started doing that and R. J.
Meacham he was the or he's the head of promo
over there, and he was like, oh wait, this girl's amazing.
And Kurb was actively looking to sign a female and
(20:07):
they were taking meetings kind of outside of the building,
and he was kind of the one that was.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Like, this girl's already here, she's in the building.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
We could just make all of her money. But no,
So I kind of started taking meetings and then Laurel
Kittlesen came over and she was actually my boss when
I was an intern over at Big Machine.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So it was kind of this just like perfect storm.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And you know, I took a couple other label meetings
at that time, but the Curb family really is a family,
and I was already signed there, and I just felt
really invested in as a songwriter and as an artist,
and I knew that i'd be a priority, which I
still feel like I am there, and not to speak
for anybody else's journey, I know that's not how it
(20:50):
always is.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And so it was just like the perfect fit for me.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
He keeps saying meetings is this where you go into
an office with a guitar and like play.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
For the people. Oh yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Like? It's awful, It's awful. I would I would not.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
No, It's literally like, well it's like you guys know Nashville.
They're not smiling at you, they're not cheering after the song,
They're just looking at you.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
And then you finish it and they're like, would you
what's that about? Well, you heard it and you kind
of should know that, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
It's like but it was just those and then you'd
leave and then like half the time and just be
radio silence, and you're like just say no.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Do you ever feel like you crushed it?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
And the worst thing is like there was a label
actually that I met with and they were really really
sweet and they were like, we really really love you,
but we actually feel like we're too far down the
line with this other female artist, and you know, we
just feel like we've got to see this through instead.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And of course you can only have one girl, facetious.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Did you ever take it too far like you sing
or like do a little bit too much?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Oh, you take this one?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Maybe I should have. Honestly, maybe I should have just
right right. No, I feel like that I've always.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Been kind of this person like, you know, I'm gonna
be as much as the room needs, but also like
if you're not into it, I'm not gonna like beg you.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
To love it.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah. The last couple of years, or maybe I will
one of the last couple of years been like because
we got out of the pandemic, yeah, and so everything
got kind of got back to the normal. So I
feel like now everything's back in whatever groove it's in, right,
But it kind of set everything back. How did that
timing work with your career with the pandemic and then
now so insane.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
So I actually signed my record deal March third, which
was the day after the tornado hit Nashville March third
of twenty twenty. So we were supposed to have this
big party that night, which we canceled obviously because like.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
There was like devastation everywhere.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
But we did go ahead and have that morning signing party,
and thank god, because the world shut down the next week,
so there was never a party or anything. I had
a record deal and then it was like, all right,
we'll see when we see you.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
So, I mean I didn't even get in the studio
until like way later that year, cut.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Some songs, tried to put something out to radio, but
then the world shut down again, and it was just
this a lot of back and forth that kind of
was just weird and terrible timing.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
But then in the end, I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Like you said, we're back to whatever this new version
of everything is, and the music industry changed a lot
in that timeframe, and so I definitely think there was
a level of catch up that I was playing at
the end of twenty twenty because I'm like, Okay, there's
like a new normal that we're trying to figure out.
But then I feel like around twenty one, end of
(23:41):
twenty one and twenty two, it's like that was when it.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Really felt like we were off to the races.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
We started to have some success at radio, we started
getting back to playing tons of shows, and you know,
I mean this year I got nominated for an ACM Award,
So I mean, it's been fine.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It all worked out, you know, three final questions. And
I think the first time that we met it was
during the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It wasn't it was January of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Is it right before the pandemic? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Right before?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
I mean you that was like one of the last
things that we did was come not me and you?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, you and me? Nick, Yeah, clarify, she's being facetious. Yes,
So I'll give the story. So there was a song
that JP Sacks and Julia Michaels did if the word
was in, then you'll get over it. And so we
listened to it. But then I found you guys a
song and everybody covers of everything, but I was like, man,
(24:35):
this version is so good. So I already said that
I said that like four years ago. No, we're all good,
and I was like, hey, come up and play, and
so you guys came up. Yeah, and that's how we met.
That was right before the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Literally, it was the last thing that we did that
was like musically artistic.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And then they were like, oh, stay home.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
When you hear a song on the radio for the
first time, oh.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
It's insane, It's really insane.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I mean so the first time that I heard it,
just like not like going to visit a radio station
or something like, I was truly.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Just out living my life.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Was where are you going?
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Nick and I went to get We were picking up
lunch because we were hung over and so obviously it
looked wonderful and I.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Get out of the car, I go grab the food.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
We get back in and I thought, I like left
my phone plugged in or something, and I was like,
but why would I be playing my own song?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And then I was like, oh, my gosh, that is
actually playing on the radio, like and so we like
turn it up and we're trying to film it.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
And it was a song that Nick and I had
written together, so it was like, oh, it was insane.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
It was so incredible.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
That's the funniest first time on the radio song I.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Heard, and I thought too, like all my phones on there,
literally and then I was.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Like, wait, why would I that's weird exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So we've kind of walked through your journey until today.
But let's say there's uh someone that a young girl
or young boy now teenager that's thinking about making the
move if they want to be an artist, they want
to be a songwriter, what advice would you give them
before they decide to travel to Nashville, either temporarily or
(26:08):
full time to be well what you are?
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Yeah, I would just say authenticity over everything. I think
I did lose some time in those early years trying
to chase down whatever was working, and I mean you
still see it in today's market. Someone will pop off
and then there's four of those that come along, and
I think I did that for a minute. And I
think that if I could give anyone any advice, it's
it's truly just lean into what comes naturally to you,
(26:31):
how you talk, how you sing, how you create, like
the community that you create, and then also just like
get involved in the town. I think it's such a
relational and such a community driven town. Someone once said
to me, you must be present to win, and I
thought that was such a great word for Nashville because.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's Oh they didn't say that was in the back
of every every serial body yeah, or lottery ticket or
or yeah. No, that wasn't a person that said that.
It was fine. It's called fine yeah no, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Yeah, but no, Oh, it's so applicable to Nashville because
I think being in the community is one of the
best things that you can do for your career.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, someone wants it to be shake before serving really Yeah,
But then I realized it was orange juice. It's the
back of an orange juice boss, and yeah, it's the
whole thing. Uh, thank you for hanging out.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Heck, yeah, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I know we're gonna go and check out some some
cool places that we talked about inside of of this podcast.
But yeah, good to see you and congratulations on everything
and the Keith Urban Tim McGraw. Uh, that story, it's
super funny. That's that's probably number two or three on
the list. The story about the own song. That was
(27:38):
a good one. There are a lot of nuggets from
this that I'm said. That's that's a plus, and then
the fact that she credited a friend of hers with
coming up with something like no, it was.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
No hear yeah, oh Kentucky, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
She's like, and he had this great vice turn around,
don't drown. That's like nobot what they say when it rains.
Everybody says that. Okay for podcast wise, great to see you,
but we're gonna head off now. Good hit you. Bobby
Bulls buy phones, m
Show.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I were in the car record studio and we're doing
a podcast. You know we should do because Eddie's here
as well. We should do like they do the beginning
of football games. Okay, I'll go first by bones six
foot one, maybe six foot and a half, one hundred
and seventy five pounds, doctor, University of Arkansas.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Nice already lying great, love it, but there was no lot.
There's no lot, sorry, doctor, producer Eddie Sam he's the
state university. Six foot zero, you're not six and eighty
pounds all muscle.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, okay, that's good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It's good. Hannah ellis about five.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
No, No, that wasn't a trick to get her.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I was not going to anyone was no way.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Yeah, one hundred pounds even I graduated from the University
of Kentucky with a bachelor's to grow there.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You go.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
She's she's die hard Kentucky.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
You know, Bobby's a diehard Arkansas.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Ray discussed this.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah. We drove around in the hunday for like fifteen
minutes and they were like talk about just driving around
the hoad to talk about like journey and we're like
coach cow. It was very rare basketball. So That's really
all we talked about. While that's the footage they have.
Why did you go to Kentucky?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
There was only one option for me. Honestly, no, but
I really I always loved the University of Kentucky. Grew
up big Kentucky fan, and I did a program in
high school called GSP and basically, if you completed the
program and had certain testing scores ACT scores.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
They would give you a full ride academic scholarship.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You got a full riding Kentucky I did. Would you
get on your ACT I'll tell you what I got online?
Twenty eight? Oh my god, Well I got a thirty.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I was so mad.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I wanted a thirty so bad. I took it like
four times. But then you know how, like eventually it
just starts going down. I was like, all right, we're
gonna call this.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We're good here. So this is called bronze metal syndrome.
What just happened?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So they say that at the Olympics, people that win
the bronze medal are so much happier than people that
win the silver medal because people that win the silver
medal are like, I was so close to the gold
where bronze was like, oh, man, yeah I got so
I had the bronze medal there because I scored a
twenty eight, and I was like, oh, I got school
paid for wherever. I was pretty happy with that, and
(02:20):
then you went, I scored twenty nine. Ah, I hated it,
and she hit me with the silver medal. That's right,
thirty was the goal.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You're so right. I wanted. I wanted. But then you know,
like you said, free school was free school?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So what math was my worst?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I literally to this day it's like a joke with
my band or anything I do wrong, I'll just say, yeah,
I'm just really bad at math, because that's how.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Bad it math.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Can't you probably made it like a twenty five.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I know, I won't even tell you it's actually very low.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But it can't be that low if it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Great job twenty nine, But we're doing the math on
how you get tasty.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It looks like a nerd, though, like I wouldn't think
she was the nerd.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
This was a journey. Okay, this is a journey, and.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Now I guess I'm still at the beginning of mine,
this journey. We're just starting on the wagon trail.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
That's your hometown, Campbellsville, Kentucky, about two a little over
two hours northeast of here. It's two hours if I'm
driving it. But yeah, real small, but not as small
as yours quite. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
We had seven hundred people in Mountain Pine. What your
town population? Do you have a sign?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I would say, I would say now, it's probably actually
closer to like ten thousand because.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Street crazy Wall Street, because we have.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
A college there, and I think that's had like a
super big impact on just like people moving in and
jobs and all that stuff. But still got that small
town vibe.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And it's definitely how I grew up.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, musically, what was happening around your house that
made you want to get in? Where'd the love of
music come from?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Oh gosh, from my parents big time. So they are
both actually really good singers. They would sing at weddings
on the weekend and they would I always say that
I was singing before I was talking because I couldn't
hardly form sentences. But my dad will be like, all right, now, Harmon,
I was with your sister I was like three. So
we came up very musical in my house, singing in church,
(04:09):
singing in contests.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And so it was always no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I mean it's just funny because like, you don't you
only know what you know, right, I didn't know. I
don't think I knew where songs came from. I guess
I assumed the song or the artist wrote them.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
But then I didn't.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Even get into that side of it till I was older,
because yeah, there was no instruments, it was just singing.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What were you listening to, like at that young age,
what were you really into?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Okay, So when I was like really young, we were
pretty much like Christian music, only house right, like the
other music we was called secular music. My first secular
CD was a Martina McBride CD, which, no, yes, my mom.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Bought it for me.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
She was like, loved Martina. My dad was always a
die hard country music fan. But back in the nineties,
I mean there was a lot of like cheating and
drinking and my mom was like, no, no, we're not
listening to that up and here, and then Martina came
out and she was like, Okay, now this I can
get down with. But yeah, so, I mean tons of
like Kathy Tricoli, She's like a kind of a gospel.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Singer back then.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Now we did the Gatlin Brothers though that was that
was mom approved as well, but kind of came up
in that Christian world and then lots of country once
I figured it out.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
The first time you came to Nashville, how old were you.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Little?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
We came to auprey Land for like a vacation, so
like aprey Land had rides and stuff. I don't think
people even know that about Nashville now. And of course,
you know, my sister aren't dressed the same because hashtag nineties,
but uh yeah, we're in here like cowboy hats going
to aprey Land. And that was that was probably six
(05:45):
maybe you know, really little.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
When did you think that you could actually sing and
make a life? Was it before college? Because you know,
why do you go to college?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:57):
So I feel like there was a when I was
in like thirteen fourteen where it was like my dad
and some of it were kind of like, wait, she's
really good. And that was when like Leanne Rhyme's was
kind of happening, and or I guess had happened. And
I think there was like a moment where that was
like oh maybe that and then it was like, oh wait, nevermind,
We're not going to do that. She's too young.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
We're gonna let her make her own life choices. And
then it's actually.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Weird but funny story. I took my little sister to
the Hannah Montana movie when I was about three months
from graduating, already had my scholarship to college.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So you wanted to go to the movie. You just
needed a reason to say you wanted to get No. No.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
She was like a die hard Okay, she was a
die house and I took her to the movie and
I swear it was just like my come to Jesus moment.
I like was like bawling by the time I leave,
and I'm like, oh, I feel like this is what
I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I feel like I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
This the climb. It's the climb. I knew it.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
And uh I go home. I'm like crying. I tell
my mom, I'm like, I think I'm supposed to like
be a singer. I think that's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And she's like, let's call your dad, and so we
called dad and he's like, listen, miss, I start and
quit a sport every year.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
This is a commitment.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Of this is like different than that. He said, I'll
come over in the morning, we'll talk about it. So
we did, and I was very much like, let's go
to Nashville, let's move. And they were kind of.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Like, you have free school, and we just like we
need to like get you. We need you to like
suss that out.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
And they were like, but absolutely, we will do everything
we can to help you chase your music dreams.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And they did did you sing in school?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was in show choir.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
I always did the contest in the small towns, you know,
like I won.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
A couple of those where I would go to like
the regional or even the state. So I was in
FFA and I got to go to like.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
The national of that Singing of America.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yes, it's why I stayed in it for four years. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
So they did a singing contest and I got to
sing at Conseco Field House up in Indie and it
was like thirty thousand people and I was like, oh,
I'm way too comfortable doing this.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I was like eighteen. I was like, yeah, and when
you're at college, do you go and sing like at
any bar?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah? Oh yeah, like the four hour shows.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
How do your parents feel about you singing at a
bar though at eighteen?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Because oh they were there, Okay, let's go yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
It was totally different at that point because it was
just like, oh, this is helping her in her life
and in her career. And Eddie Montgomery had a steakhouse
I was like right outside of Lexington, Kentucky at the time,
so I would go there and play those like four
hour covers slash.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Please listen to this song I wrote shows You know,
what did your friends think when you were in college
doing this? Because like when I was in a band too,
when I met Bobby, and I'd make Bobby go to
the show. A lot of times, it's just Bobby, yeah
and a couple other friends, that's it.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
So my friends thought it was cool because I was
coming back and forth to Nashville, so they were like, oh,
this is like legit, she's really trying to do this.
Like sometimes my friends would make me like stand on
a table at one of the parties and sing to
prove to some other person that I was a good singer,
and I was like happily oblige.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Say less.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
But no, I mean they were really supportive. I mean
I played the ten roof up there, and they would
all come out and droves. I mean it was a blast.
It really was.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
When you finished school, how long until you packed up.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And moved Not long.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
So I actually graduated early because I knew I wanted
to come to Nashville. So I like finished all my
classes in three and a half years and graduated in December,
and then moved here in February. So I went home
for like a month like Christmas, do it, and then
I was here.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And when you come to a town like Nashville, because
there are different places that you can play. Had you
played at all in town? Was there a place that
you had called to say, I'm coming to town, can
I get on stage? Did that happen at all? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So, I mean definitely the listening room.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I was like emailing anybody who was getting a lot
of bounce backs at the time.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But I tried to get in there. I played. I
played at maybe Tequila Cowboy one or two, the.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Broadway things, but that wasn't really ever my thing, and
I knew that wasn't and kind of be my in
I would say when I really got here, I was
trying to get in the songwriter community, which.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Is why the listening room is probably.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Exactly exactly because that was still really early in my like, oh, songwriting,
co writing, that's how you develop artistry. And also there's
kind of this idea, which is not wrong in Nashville, that.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Like the way to a record deal is through a
publishing deal.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And that was definitely the thing when I moved here
back in twenty thirteen, Like everybody kind of that was
like the trajectory.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
You know, now it's so different, but so that was
really the big focus.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So when you move here and you want to be
a songwriter and yeah, I used to be a town
of get a publishing deal, right, then maybe you can
write enough songs that are good songs for yourself. Yeah,
So where do you go? Who do you talk to?
Is there a group here that as a new writer
you can go and kind of be like, hey, I'm
new here, what do I do?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Absolutely, I mean my first stop and the first stop
I tell anybody that's trying to come to town is NSAI.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's the Songwriter Association.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
And they're just super helpful in like connecting you with
people that are where you are, right like other new
writers in town other publishers that are willing to take
a meeting with someone that's really really green and.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Just kind of coach YOUO long.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
And they were hugely influential in my early days here.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
When you moved to town and you see that everybody
else in this whole town is really good, intimidating.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Oh absolutely, I mean you immediately get the uh, what
is the fish?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Thing?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Right?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
It's like a big fish in a small pond. You
are a very very small fish in a big pond.
I mean when I first moved here and I went
to some shows, I thought everyone was famous because.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
They were so good.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I was like, obviously, I just don't know who they
are because I don't know what's up. But like I'm
sending videos every night to my friends and family being like.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Have you ever heard of this person?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And they were just like as green as I was.
They were just really good, you know, but it was
it was fun.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Did that make you? Did it challenge you to get
better and intimidate you to do both both both.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
I'm super competitive naturally, and so anytime I see the bar,
I'm like, okay, well that's at least I have to
hit that or above and Also I was just out
and when I would realize that was before I knew
the like way to like, oh, you can't go up
and ask people.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I would just like be lying it right after the show. Hi,
well you're right with you know. That was so me.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But you know what, it worked a lot in those
early days because we were all young and trying to
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I mean, it was so funny. The second show I ever.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Went to in Nashville, the one where I'm taking all
the videos of the people I thought was famous, it's
the night I met Laney Wilson. We both had the
same boots on, and so we just sat down and
she was super new to town as well, and so
it's like then we.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Would just attack people together. It's less weird.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You know, how do you find your style in a
town like this when you're look in like, oh my gosh,
everyone has their own thing going, Like I got to
be different than everyone else.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah, I think that that was actually a bit of
an issue for me on the early days, cause I was,
like I said, so competitive that I was just trying
to do what was already working, and so I wasn't
chasing what is Hannah Ellis I was like, Okay, Taylor
Swift's doing it this way. Okay, Carrie Underwoods doing it
this way. And so I was more like emulating them,
(13:15):
you know, for probably those first couple of years, and
then it was like, okay, well I'm not doing that's
not working. And then you do finally get to this
place where you're like, oh, if I just do what
I do, naturally, people seem to gravitate towards that a
lot more so, I think it's just a learned art.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Unfortunately, to get a publishing deal, what were the steps
that you went through to take a while, And what
happens after you get a publishing deal? They get paid
to write songs.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, so I would say, yeah, I mean again, I
was just like I would write two and three times
a day, like just as much as possible, and trying
to kind of keep those connections I'd made in the
early days. And I would just send them songs no
matter what position, if they were A and R somewhere
or if they were because I interned at Big Machine
in the A and R department when I was in college,
and so I kept all those relationships and so I
(14:02):
just kind of send songs periodically and just say you.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Can tell me if they suck, just help me.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
And so music kind of just got passed from one
friend to the other, like, hey keep an eye on
this girl, go see a show of hers. And Janina
Appleton was at Word Country Word Entertainment started like a
little country arm and she was who called me and
was like, hey, I like your writing, but I also
like that you write for men, because so many women
(14:31):
were only writing girl songs and like this is like
mid two thousands, I mean, there wasn't a lot of
places for those to go. And so we started chatting
and I got my publishing deal in twenty fifteen. And
it was funny because at that time I would never
say there was a moment where I wasn't an artist,
but I would say I did have like, Okay, I'm
a songwriter and then an artist in those moments because
(14:53):
I was being paid to get songs cut, so I
focused on that a lot. In twenty sixteen, got some
cuts with like Carly Daniel, Brad Russell Diggerson, and then
I was like, okay, now back to me.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Is there an expectation that, Okay, I'm gonna write a
song somebody's gonna put it on hold, it's gonna be good.
Then they're gonna cut it. I mean, like, what's the
success rated that?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So I'm pointzh one.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
I think at first you definitely think song on hold
means song cut, and then it's like there's song on hold,
then there's song on hold by the artists, then there's
song that's cut by the artists, then there's song that
makes it on the record, like because I mean we
had a huge heart breaking yeah right, It's like we
had a huge heartbreak song where like I actually wrote
(15:38):
it with my husband Nick and Josh Kerr where Keith
Urban cut it, and I mean we were young songwriters
and we were all freaking out then like we didn't
even know until like we knew we cut it because
we'd heard the cut of it. Then the record comes
out and sound on the record heartbreak turn around, Tim
and Faith cut it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So everybody's like, oh, they're gonna use it on their tour.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Right. So in the promo video that you remember they
did this big show with the Ryman. In the promo video,
it's like the name of that song is on there.
You can see it, you can see them singing. It
didn't make the record, and it was just like that
is the most classic Nashville storied. Of course, my husband
Nick was like fine and putting it out myself, but
(16:20):
he did.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, yeah, he's like forget it.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
But I mean it was just such a crazy Nashville
story because that's like really common.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Actually, what's the money situation at this point, Like in like,
are you banking on these on these to get cut
and none these two? Are you kind of like, all right,
I make enough now to kind of just do this
and see what happens, or are you just kind of
like we need we need this. No.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I would say when I signed my deal, I was
still working multiple jobs because like you're trying to take
like the lowest pay possible just to get the deal
to like get your foot in the door. So it
wasn't enough to like live on I was. I was
a nanny and I would work for my dad's window company,
and that was that was not good.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
She was not a window and door salesman.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
But yeah, I would say the money thing was definitely
interesting because your draw is whatever you agreed to.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So it was a lot of odd jobs for a while.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
What was the next step, so you have publishing deal.
You have songs that What was your first song that
was cut on a record?
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I think the first one was I don't remember if
it was the Cassidy Pope song or I think it
was Daniel Bribery Messy. It was on like her record
A couple a couple of records ago. And then I
had one that wrote was Russell Dickerson around the same time,
called would You Love Me?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Those two came out.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I think those were the first of that like group
of artists that I got cuts with.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So when they put it on hold, then when they
cut it, yeah, Then when it makes the record, oh yeah,
then you're like, are you just waiting for them to go?
It could be the scene oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
And of course everyone says that like someone someone puts
that bug in your ear, whether they said that ever
or or not, I don't know if it's publisher or friend.
Like you're like, but maybe it's like the slowest ballad
of all time, and they're like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
That's funny. When did you reshift? And I won't say
you're focused, yeah, but when did you kind of move
more emphasis over to now you want to be an artist?
You write instead of a writer who's also an audist.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yeah, I feel like that happened. End of twenty sixteen
is when I went to Janina and was like, Hi,
so here's these five songs that I would be devastated
if anybody else cut because they feel so me and
so like my artistry.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And you know, to your.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Point earlier about finding yourself without me knowing it, when
I was focused on writing.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
For these other artists, that was actually where I.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Found myself because all of a sudden, I'd write a
song and I would be like, no, I will die
if someone sings this and it's not me. Like that
was kind of how I found It was more, Oh,
I couldn't share that it has to come from me.
That's my voice, not only voice, but like how I speak,
how I say things. And so I came to her
at the end of twenty sixteen with like a batch
of songs and I was like, I want to do
an EP. It can be self recorded, but as my publisher,
(19:07):
she was like, let me just see how I can
help you on this journey.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Do you still have to keep thurban version of the
song you wrote somewhere?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Someone has it? I bet, I bet Josh Kerr has it,
you go ask him.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So how'd the record deal come about?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
You know, I was signed at Word Country, then it
got bought by Curb, So my publishing kind of got
swallowed up in that to where I became a Curb writer, right,
so I'm in the building, and then they moved the
record label over to where the publishing is, so I
still had the same publisher. Jeannine she she kind of
got swallowed up in that whole thing as well, and
she was so she was so amazing to where she
(19:45):
was like, I don't want to send stuff too early,
but whenever we both feel like you're ready, I'm just
gonna email it upstairs and see what happens. And so
somewhere around twenty eighteen she started doing that and R. J.
Meacham he was the or he's the head of promo
over there, and he was like, oh wait, this girl's amazing.
And Kurb was actively looking to sign a female and
(20:07):
they were taking meetings kind of outside of the building,
and he was kind of the one that was.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Like, this girl's already here, she's in the building.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
We could just make all of her money. But no,
So I kind of started taking meetings and then Laurel
Kittlesen came over and she was actually my boss when
I was an intern over at Big Machine.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So it was kind of this just like perfect storm.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And you know, I took a couple other label meetings
at that time, but the Curb family really is a family,
and I was already signed there, and I just felt
really invested in as a songwriter and as an artist,
and I knew that i'd be a priority, which I
still feel like I am there, and not to speak
for anybody else's journey, I know that's not how it
(20:50):
always is.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And so it was just like the perfect fit for me.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
He keeps saying meetings is this where you go into
an office with a guitar and like play.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
For the people. Oh yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Like? It's awful, It's awful. I would I would not.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
No, It's literally like, well it's like you guys know Nashville.
They're not smiling at you, they're not cheering after the song,
They're just looking at you.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
And then you finish it and they're like, would you
what's that about? Well, you heard it and you kind
of should know that, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
It's like but it was just those and then you'd
leave and then like half the time and just be
radio silence, and you're like just say no.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Do you ever feel like you crushed it?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
And the worst thing is like there was a label
actually that I met with and they were really really
sweet and they were like, we really really love you,
but we actually feel like we're too far down the
line with this other female artist, and you know, we
just feel like we've got to see this through instead.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And of course you can only have one girl, facetious.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Did you ever take it too far like you sing
or like do a little bit too much?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Oh, you take this one?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Maybe I should have. Honestly, maybe I should have just
right right. No, I feel like that I've always.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Been kind of this person like, you know, I'm gonna
be as much as the room needs, but also like
if you're not into it, I'm not gonna like beg you.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
To love it.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah. The last couple of years, or maybe I will
one of the last couple of years been like because
we got out of the pandemic, yeah, and so everything
got kind of got back to the normal. So I
feel like now everything's back in whatever groove it's in, right,
But it kind of set everything back. How did that
timing work with your career with the pandemic and then
now so insane.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
So I actually signed my record deal March third, which
was the day after the tornado hit Nashville March third
of twenty twenty. So we were supposed to have this
big party that night, which we canceled obviously because like.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
There was like devastation everywhere.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
But we did go ahead and have that morning signing party,
and thank god, because the world shut down the next week,
so there was never a party or anything. I had
a record deal and then it was like, all right,
we'll see when we see you.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
So, I mean I didn't even get in the studio
until like way later that year, cut.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Some songs, tried to put something out to radio, but
then the world shut down again, and it was just
this a lot of back and forth that kind of
was just weird and terrible timing.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
But then in the end, I mean.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Like you said, we're back to whatever this new version
of everything is, and the music industry changed a lot
in that timeframe, and so I definitely think there was
a level of catch up that I was playing at
the end of twenty twenty because I'm like, Okay, there's
like a new normal that we're trying to figure out.
But then I feel like around twenty one, end of
(23:41):
twenty one and twenty two, it's like that was when it.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Really felt like we were off to the races.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
We started to have some success at radio, we started
getting back to playing tons of shows, and you know,
I mean this year I got nominated for an ACM Award,
So I mean, it's been fine.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It all worked out, you know, three final questions. And
I think the first time that we met it was
during the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It wasn't it was January of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Is it right before the pandemic? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Right before?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
I mean you that was like one of the last
things that we did was come not me and you?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, you and me? Nick, Yeah, clarify, she's being facetious. Yes,
So I'll give the story. So there was a song
that JP Sacks and Julia Michaels did if the word
was in, then you'll get over it. And so we
listened to it. But then I found you guys a
song and everybody covers of everything, but I was like, man,
(24:35):
this version is so good. So I already said that
I said that like four years ago. No, we're all good,
and I was like, hey, come up and play, and
so you guys came up. Yeah, and that's how we met.
That was right before the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Literally, it was the last thing that we did that
was like musically artistic.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And then they were like, oh, stay home.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
When you hear a song on the radio for the
first time, oh.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
It's insane, It's really insane.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I mean so the first time that I heard it,
just like not like going to visit a radio station
or something like, I was truly.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Just out living my life.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Was where are you going?
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Nick and I went to get We were picking up
lunch because we were hung over and so obviously it
looked wonderful and I.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Get out of the car, I go grab the food.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
We get back in and I thought, I like left
my phone plugged in or something, and I was like,
but why would I be playing my own song?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And then I was like, oh, my gosh, that is
actually playing on the radio, like and so we like
turn it up and we're trying to film it.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
And it was a song that Nick and I had
written together, so it was like, oh, it was insane.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
It was so incredible.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
That's the funniest first time on the radio song I.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Heard, and I thought too, like all my phones on there,
literally and then I was.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Like, wait, why would I that's weird exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So we've kind of walked through your journey until today.
But let's say there's uh someone that a young girl
or young boy now teenager that's thinking about making the
move if they want to be an artist, they want
to be a songwriter, what advice would you give them
before they decide to travel to Nashville, either temporarily or
(26:08):
full time to be well what you are?
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Yeah, I would just say authenticity over everything. I think
I did lose some time in those early years trying
to chase down whatever was working, and I mean you
still see it in today's market. Someone will pop off
and then there's four of those that come along, and
I think I did that for a minute. And I
think that if I could give anyone any advice, it's
it's truly just lean into what comes naturally to you,
(26:31):
how you talk, how you sing, how you create, like
the community that you create, and then also just like
get involved in the town. I think it's such a
relational and such a community driven town. Someone once said
to me, you must be present to win, and I
thought that was such a great word for Nashville because.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's Oh they didn't say that was in the back
of every every serial body yeah, or lottery ticket or
or yeah. No, that wasn't a person that said that.
It was fine. It's called fine yeah no, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Yeah, but no, Oh, it's so applicable to Nashville because
I think being in the community is one of the
best things that you can do for your career.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, someone wants it to be shake before serving really Yeah,
But then I realized it was orange juice. It's the
back of an orange juice boss, and yeah, it's the
whole thing. Uh, thank you for hanging out.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Heck, yeah, that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I know we're gonna go and check out some some
cool places that we talked about inside of of this podcast.
But yeah, good to see you and congratulations on everything
and the Keith Urban Tim McGraw. Uh, that story, it's
super funny. That's that's probably number two or three on
the list. The story about the own song. That was
(27:38):
a good one. There are a lot of nuggets from
this that I'm said. That's that's a plus, and then
the fact that she credited a friend of hers with
coming up with something like no, it was.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
No hear yeah, oh Kentucky, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
She's like, and he had this great vice turn around,
don't drown. That's like nobot what they say when it rains.
Everybody says that. Okay for podcast wise, great to see you,
but we're gonna head off now. Good hit you. Bobby
Bulls buy phones, m
Hosts And Creators
Bobby Bones
Amy Brown
Lunchbox
Eddie Garcia
Morgan Huelsman
Raymundo
Mike D
Abby Anderson
Scuba Steve
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