What if new parents aren’t failing, but simply unsupported? Morgan sits down with Michelle Pool, nurse at Maven Clinic and the person behind One Minute Milk Bites, for an honest, deeply validating conversation about breastfeeding, postpartum mental health, and why modern parents feel so overwhelmed.
Michelle shares her own journey from struggling new mom to lactation expert, breaking down why breastfeeding can feel impossibly hard, how baby instincts actually work, and why the “breast is best” messaging has caused more harm than help. Together, they explore postpartum depression, the loss of the village, C-sections vs. vaginal birth, and the quiet identity shift that happens after a baby arrives.
This episode is for:
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New and expecting parents
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Partners who want to show up better
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Anyone who’s ever wondered, “Am I doing this right?”
If you’ve ever felt alone, unsure, or like you’re not enough, this conversation is your reminder: your best is good enough, and you are the perfect parent for your baby.
🎧 Subscribe to the podcast for more episodes.
📲 Follow Michelle on Instagram @one_minute_milk_bites
📲 Follow @takethispersonally on Instagram
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Personally, Feldsman, I've got Michelle Pool with me this week.
Her instagram one Minute Milk Bites is helping new parents
everywhere with advice in quick one minute videos. I'm excited
for you all to hear who drops some major family knowledge.
Here we go. Michelle Pool is a nurse at the
(00:34):
Maven Clinic and she is awesome about sharing so much
information online about babies, motherhood, the boobies, all the things.
So Michelle, thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thanks so much for having me and Morgan very excited
to talk all things babies today.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, I would love to know. So you work at
the Maven Clinic. You work, and you guys are family building, fertility, pregnancy, parenting, menopause,
all the things that are around this. But talk to me
about starting that and why you got into that line
of work. But then also your social media page and
why you're sharing the information that you are online.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, I mean, how much time do we have? Kidding?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
You can go as far as you want. We love
to get deep on here.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
The short version is that I have a master's degree counseling,
and before I even thought about having a baby, I
was a counselor and I helped families with children with
special needs and did that kind of behavior therapy. So
I was in that world. When I became pregnant. I
was told that breastfeeding was easy and natural. It's just
(01:37):
like breathing. And I was like, oh, cool, then I
don't need to take a class or read any books.
That sounds like a big waste of time. But when
my baby came around, it.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Was really really difficult for me, and I struggled. I
was doing all of the things with the breasts and
the pumps and the bottles and the formula and the nippleshield,
and I started to lose it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And I didn't know what postpartum depression was because I
didn't take any of the classes. You see, it's good
to take classes, guys. And I just thought, I'm really
bad at this. I'm not cut out to be doing this.
And luckily I did get some help from a visiting nurse.
Things fell into place. My little baby, God bless him,
decided to participate and try to figure it out with me.
(02:26):
Some babies don't, and that's okay too, But it just worked.
And it took a couple of weeks before I was like, oh,
it is easy. And natural. After eight weeks of really
hard a lot of ups and downs, I would imagine,
now it is now, you just put the baby on
the breast and we're done. Ah, Like, this is why
(02:47):
people breastfeed. I almost gave up, which would have been fine.
Something was gonna give my mental health or breastfeeding, and
it just worked out that I was able to keep both.
But I really, it can be easy and natural if
we get through that learning curve, make it through the
zombie haze of becoming a new parent. I almost didn't
(03:11):
know that because I would have just stopped and what
I would have hated breastfeeding and said, don't do that.
That's a really bad idea. But because I had both
perspectives and I was a counselor, I was like, ah,
I think there's a new pathway for me here to
use my counseling skills and learn about lactation and babies
(03:32):
and then marry those into a new job. I became
a nurse because that seemed to be helpful in the
whole overarching career path. Did my time as an intern
and studied and did the exams and ended up with
a lot of different jobs in the realm of babies
and newborn care and breastfeeding. I've worked at hospitals, lactation centers,
(03:54):
nick us birth centers, outpatient home visits, and then the
pandemic app and a lot of things switched over to
online and that's where I actually worked for Maveon before
that happened. But I have several jobs now, Maven is
one of them. They are not only taking care of
(04:15):
moms pregnancy, having babies, postpartum, but throughout the life cycle
of women, which I just love every bit of that
and love being a part of their team. So that's
why I'm sitting in front of you today. And the
social media just I don't know, two or three years ago,
I just felt like I can give more. I'm seeing
(04:36):
so many moms who are struggling so much with just
not knowing the very basics of this thing. And we
can talk more about that, but that's where the social
media part came in.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I love this and you mentioned that we'll definitely get
into it about how it's a life cycle.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
We like to think we push people into having kids
and oh, it's so exciting and you have a kid
and they're here, this is cool, and then it's like
everybody disappears. And I've seen that happen and so many
of my friends and so many of the people that
I love, and it really breaks my heart because that's
when that's the most isolating moment of their lives, is
this new thing is so exciting and they were so
(05:16):
excited for it, But also nobody warns you about what
happens after everybody's excited about it, and nobody's that village
disperses because they're like, oh, you got it, you know
what you're doing, and the moms and dads are sitting
there like, no, we don't. Hey, we're still here kind
of thing. So we'll definitely get into that. I want
to talk about it, but particularly a lot of the
content you mentioned about new moms in this very first
(05:39):
phase of having the baby and them and being like,
what am I doing? And it's a fear I think
a lot of women have, especially because they're like, I
don't know how to do this and I don't have
all these tools. Everybody says the mother instinct happens, and
it does, but there's also a lot of fear that
comes with that. So what do you see a lot
where moms are starting to freak out and they don't
(06:01):
know things. Talk to me through those things that you're
seeing and experiencing with people.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, I think it ties into what you were just
talking about, where we're not set up for a village
anymore as a human species. For hundreds of thousands of years,
we did live together in community in a village. There
weren't lactation consultants. Other mothers were the lactation consultants for
(06:26):
the new moms, and we helped each other and if
you couldn't breastfeeding, I would breastfeed your baby. Problem solved
and then we try to help you. But it was
a very village led effort. And now, of course we're
very isolated in general, so new parents are isolated. But
I think that's just a reflection of the bigger picture
of what's been going on probably for the last one
(06:47):
hundred to two hundred years, since the industrial Revolution, since
we all had to get everybody has to have a job.
We can't just have a dad goes off to work
and I get to stay home. Not that there's anything
wrong with that or wanting to go to work, but
a lot of people don't even have the choice. Both
parents must go back to work. We are able to
move away from our village. I did, and there's good
(07:10):
things about that and not to good things about that.
When it comes to raising a little baby, I think
moms definitely start to feel that isolation if they're not
at least near their family or friends. So I think
that has a lot to do with kind of the
origination of why moms are feeling so disconnected from themselves
(07:33):
and their babies and each other, because that's the society
that we live in.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
It's not their fault, yeah, it very much is. And
writ like you're mentioning, it's part of that bigger picture.
And it's hard to watch because there is such an
encouragement of have kids, you should have kids, don't not
have kids, but we're not really supporting them in the
way to give people the belief that it's safe to do.
So it's like this scary thing. And so that's why
(07:59):
I love what you're doing, is you found this gap
and you're like, I'm trying to provide the support and
I'm trying to help you guys through this, and so
you do milk bites in which I love, and they're
really walking through the basic steps of hey, breastfeeding, So
talk to me about breastfeeding and why that kind of
became a little niche for you. When it comes to
social media.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think breastfeeding again because we've lost touch with the
community the village. Many moms who are having a baby,
they've never actually seen somebody having a baby before. So
like if we lived in the village five hundred years
ago and you were having a baby, I would be
at your bedside helping you out. There would be women around,
(08:41):
and we would just know what this is and what
it looks like and what to do. So a lot
of women who are having kids, they've never even seen
that happen. And then when it comes to putting a
baby to their breast, they've never seen that either until
it's their baby, And now mistakes are high. If we're
trying to exclusively breastfeed, we're trying to keep the baby
alive from the breast alone. But I have no idea
(09:04):
what I've never even seen it happen before, so I
feel very at a disadvantage. And then the moms, like
you mentioned the maternal instinct, there's a baby instinct as well,
So moms feel out of touch with that instinct and
I think they are, and again that's no fault of
their own, but they don't know that the baby has
(09:25):
instincts as well, and to learn some of those baby
behaviors and the reflexes that the babies are born with
to get to the breast can be so helpful before
the baby comes along. But all in all, when it
comes to baby feeding, we can breastfeed, we can formula feed,
we can pump, or all three. Breastfeeding seems to be
the harder one to get under our belts and a
(09:46):
steeper learning curve. So that's where I give the most
help because I feel like it's the hardest of the
three things. I do try to talk to pumping moms
and formula feeding moms as well, because formula feeding moms
get left in the dust sometimes things like you're breastfeeding,
that's hard. Pumping's also hard. Oh you're formula feeding. I
read the back of the can.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, And it's not that simple. Nothing is ever that simple.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
That's right. That's right. So I try to help everybody out,
But it is the breastfeeding where we're getting the most
kind of confused and tied up and lacking just very
basic information, not only about the mechanics of it, but
also just the biological components of it, which I think
are really important to the big story.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And a part of this picture. We're obviously seeing a
huge shift and people wanting to be aware of what
they're consuming, what their babies are consuming, what's happening. So
I'm imagining that's also a role in this when it
comes to formula and breastfeeding and pumping and stuff. Are
you seeing that transition happen as well.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It's really heartbreaking to me because moms are always constantly
comparing themselves to get a sense of how they're doing.
And that's also just a reflection I think of society
that we live in, and it's like I have to
look at you and you to know that I'm doing
a good job, which isn't how anything really works. But
(11:08):
they're doing that, and then they're hearing messaging from people
like me. I don't say this, but some lactationian consultants
may say, or adopters or healthcare professionals may say, breast
is best, breastfeeding is best for your baby, and they
just hit with that message again and again, and then
when that isn't going well, they've tied it up with parenting.
(11:29):
It's not just like breast is best. It's like, oh,
breast is best, and therefore, if I'm breastfeeding, I'm the
best parent. Like I didn't say that, That's not what
I said, but that's what they're hearing. And I've been
really asking lactation consultants to change that messaging because we
know how harmful that can be when the mom is
now tied up if I'm breastfeeding really well, that I'm
a good parent, and when that starts to fall apart,
(11:49):
I'm not as good as a parent anymore. But at
least I can pump. And now they're pumping, but comparing
like the volumes that they're getting, we're having people telling them, oh,
when you pump milk, it's not as good. Is that
the baby's just breastfeeding? And then when that's not working,
they have to use formula, and so the formula. I'm
so grateful that we have formula that nobody has to
(12:10):
breastfeed if they don't want to, if they can't, we
have something to feed the baby. And we live in
this society where the almighty dollar rules, and so formula
companies are marketing to these vulnerable moms and trying to
tell them why their formula is the best one and
it can't even be in this country anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Now.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's like, well, you have to go and buy the
European formula if you want to be the best mom.
So it really is heartbreaking to see these moms just
trying to do They just want to do what's best
for their baby, but they lose sight that, like their
best is the best for the baby. Just being themselves
is the best for the baby. Loving the baby, taking
care of the baby, the baby trust that I'm going
(12:50):
to meet their needs. That's what we got to be
focusing on, not like how many ounces of milk you pumped,
whether you were at the breast or pumped it, what
kind of formula did you buy? But they've tied that
up with how good a parent I am. So I'm
trying to unravel that problem, which again is people like
me caused that. So I want everybody in my side
(13:11):
of the screen today to take responsibility here and think
about how the language we're using is messing moms up.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, and it's funny you mentioned that we had just
done a podcast episode. We're really talking about social media
and how the twist and turns. It's turned on so
many different levels, from therapy to parenting to so much
a part of what we understand and how we compare
ourselves and what that all looks like. And it's super
damaging for the real life experience versus the online experience.
(13:39):
So I know that's playing such a significant role. And
I want to get back to that thing you mentioned
about baby instincts because this can also be a way
that moms and dads can be the best parent they
can be, because I think I should have thought about that,
that babies do have instinct there they're a little human,
but that's definitely not something anybody has told me about,
so to me about that.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, this is also it's funny in a way, like
it's very sad, but it's also funny because when parents'
first time parents who have not been around newborn babies,
have not lived in that community where we're helping each
other out when they have and I'll get one of
my baby props.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I love a baby prop. This is perfect baby prop.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So we have the baby arrives on the scene and
it's like, what do I do with this? And parents' dads,
especially are like holding a baby like this, like ah,
and they're like, what, Like I need an instruction manual?
What do I do with this little creature? Is this
even human? It seems like it's a foreign species to us.
That's how far we removed we are from it. So
(14:42):
part of what I'm doing and in the future, in
the near future, I think I'm going to start another
Instagram channel or some kind of social media channel where
I'm really trying to build these basics of this is
a human being. You know how to take care of
a human being. You've taken care of a lot of
human things in your life. This is one of them.
They just happen to be a lot smaller. But when
(15:04):
we just reframe it even that, I get parents who
are like I never thought of it like that, and
I'm like, wow, well, and we have a lot of
work to do, but it's good that now you are
thinking of this as a human. This is a mammal,
and if you can learn some basic things about mammal babies,
it's going to apply to your baby as well. And
(15:24):
then we can just start to say what are what
is this baby mammal born with the ability to do?
And there's social media it's problematic in this space, and
it's also a blessing because it gives me an opportunity
to just get the message out there. There are other
providers who are giving good, evidence based, nice, not harmful information,
(15:50):
and there are so many videos that we can go
watch now of what happens when a baby is born.
Did you know that every baby goes through the same
nine behaviors after they come.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
No, can you tell me about these nine behaviors? Because
I feel like I feel like I'm reading a whole
educational experience right now.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's super cool. So I'm not going to go through
all nine of the steps. But if you go anybody
that's listening and you want to see what I'm talking about,
if you look up newborn babies, breast crawl, newborn babies,
the Golden Hour, like then you're gonna see these babies
who are fresh out. They're out now, they're living in
(16:29):
the world, and they do nine of the same things.
So it's like they cry, they rest, they like look around,
and eventually they get themselves to the breast. So like
step nine is like they've latched and started eating. And
if I just now this is okay, so here and
it has to be a normal vaginal delivery with no interventions,
(16:53):
and that's pretty rare these days. It still happens. It
happens in birth centers, it can happen in the hospital
if you're vocal about it. There's sometimes are compromises we
have to make. But we could have a baby who's
going skin to skin after birth, full term delivery, and
all I have to do as a mom is just
(17:14):
make sure the baby doesn't fall off of the bed,
and this baby will put herself onto my breast. Parents
don't know that, and when they see the videos, they're like,
it's mind blowing. I've seen a lot of babies doing
this over the years, and it still like makes me
weep because it's just this beautiful thing that I have
no idea what I'm doing. Thank goodness, this.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Baby goes no it got that's natural instinct, Like as
soon as they're out of the.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Womb one hundred percent, so within the first hour, you're
going to see all of those things happen, these stages
that our baby mammals go through, and that is that
can be a big shift for parents. To see it
on a video is one thing, and that can make
them say wow. What But then when they have their baby,
it's amaz just to have them just sit back. You
(18:03):
don't have to do anything. You don't because they're just like,
what do I do? Like you don't even have to
do anything, literally, like just relax and hold your baby
and watch what they can do. And then as we
move forward, now it's nice for you to be able
to sit up and hold them and do the things,
but if you just lean back, they'll do a lot
of the work for you, which is super cool.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You mentioned that a specifically the traditional style of birth,
So does that change if c section is part of
this and different things? What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It can look a lot of different ways. We have,
of course, a lot of studies now that show us
what it can look like. And so if you have
an epidoral, let's say, and some moms want an epidoral,
which is totally fine, and some moms don't want an epidoral,
but then they do and that's also fine, and some
moms don't want one, but then the healthcare team is like,
(18:58):
you really should get one because of medical reasons. It's
safe for the baby in terms of the medication. But
if you think about what an epidural. It is, you know,
it's a numbing agent. And so it's not that the
baby doesn't get any of the medicine. They do. And
so sometimes just depends like the dose of the epidoral,
(19:20):
how far away we are from delivering the baby, all
of these kinds of things. But we see that babies
who were born to a mother who had an epidoral,
they're not quite as feisty. If you go look up
the breast crawl, you're going to see these babies that
are like doing push up some of the mom's chest
and bobbing their head and eating their hands and pushing
(19:41):
with their feet to get to the breast. And that's
what we would love to see. Babies who have some
kind of medication in their system might not be quite
as bright eyed and bushy tail. They might be a
little just a little sloppier, a little more relaxed about
the whole thing. And as that medication wears off, they
(20:01):
will start to pick up with those behaviors, they don't
lose them. It's really important for those moms who had
to have an epidural. I hate I had to have
a C section. I had all medication, and thank you
for all the medication for that, And I had a
baby that was flappy and not super into things for
a minute, and I've seen lots of babies like that
(20:22):
in the job that I do. Keep that baby skin
to skin with you. That's if anybody's listening today, if
there's one take home message, hold your baby skin to
skin as much as you can, as often as you can,
and when you get tired of it, give it to dad,
give it to your partner, give baby to grandma to
hold in skin to skin. It's so good for them.
(20:43):
It's really great for breastfeeding.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Development.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's like the neurons are firing in the baby when
they're held skin to skin. They it's really cool science
stuff where they have like sensors on the front of
their body that are talking to them about where they
are and what they need to do and triggering feeding reflexes.
And if the baby has had any medication, as that
wears off, I'm going to start seeing some of those
(21:09):
behaviors that I wanted to see when they were born.
And I'm going to be the first to know if
the baby is right here and know that okay, now
it's time to feed. So there are some differences, but
generally they're short term. Within twenty four to thirty six hours,
we should see a baby kind of free of the
medication and acting like fiery little mammals trying to eat.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Oh wow, that's so fascinating. Then they do not teach
you that in school, that's for sure. And it's also interesting.
I've seen some stories recently coming out talking about sea sections,
so I'd love your take on that, because it's there's
and I don't know. You may not have one, and
you may not know, but it's more the we're seeing
that sea sections were pushed a lot for people to
(21:52):
have them and versus having natural birth or whatever they
wanted to have. I loved watching my sister navigate this
for the first time, because I said it in the
very beginning. I was like, one thing I know from
all the information I've taken in is just be your
own advocate, do whatever you want to do, and stand
up for yourself. You deserve that, and she did in
every way, and she fought like hell to do the
(22:13):
things that she wanted to do as long as it
was safe for her and her baby. And that was
really cool to watch. But it's also interesting now seeing
a lot of the feedback come out online about sea
sections and this push to have them done. So is
there anything you can share in shed light on that
kind of situation that's really unfolding right now.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, Like I mentioned, I had a sea section. My
baby was breach and he didn't turn, and he didn't
turn and he didn't turn, and when I finally delivered
be a sea section, they said he was never going
to turn, like he was folded up like a taco
this way, there was no room for him to move.
So fank goodness. We have sea sections for medical reasons.
(22:52):
It is major abdominal surgery, and we forget that because
it's so commonplace when we're talking about having a baby
and it took oh you can give or you're gonna
have a sea section, it's like it's major abdominal surgery.
And not only is it major abdominal surgery, maybe even
at this point we can hold baby skinned skin after
a sea section. A lot of hospitals are doing that now.
(23:13):
But imagine like going in for any other abdominal surgery,
like you're gonna have some kind of liver surgery or surgery.
You're on your stomach and you are awake for the surgery,
and ten minutes later they go, here's a baby, Please
keep it alive. Can you imagine, But that's what we're
doing when we have a sea section and we're like,
here's your baby. Don't pull your stitches out. Be really
(23:37):
careful holding them, like make sure when you're breastfeeding, they're
not kicking your incision. It's crazy. So we've really normalized
it in a way that I think is a detriment
to the way that moms are thinking about it and
they're not. And like I said, I'm glad we have
them and everyone you should do what you would like
to do, but make an informed decision and recognize that
(23:57):
you are having your body open up and they're taking
your organs out and laying them on your stomach and
then they're cutting. So it's like it's a big deal.
There can be just like with any surgery, there are
way more risks as you can imagine, involved with this
way of delivering a baby because we do it so much.
(24:18):
On the plus side, we're good at it. Yeah, I
would say probably. I don't know the evidence, so don't
quote me on this, but I would imagine that whenever
we started doing c sections that like, they're probably a
lot safer than they used to be. I would hope so.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I would hope so as well. I think we've been
doing those for a few decades.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I would hope so. But they do come with some disadvantages,
and then once you are recovery is a whole different story. Now.
I remember standing up the first day after I had
that surgery, and it was scary. It was scary. You're
not allowed to drive, you're not allowed to walk up
the stairs, you're not supposed to pick up anything bigger
(24:54):
than your baby, and if you have other kids at home,
it's a challenge to challenge. So lots of kind of
risks and downsides that I'm not sure that we're always
being honest about with moms.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Mm hmm. I think the wild experience about that too,
is that you mentioned it and you don't get to
recover completely. You're now going to get kicked out too.
They chose you on this Friday to misbehave. They are
normally angels during this whole process. They've gotten used to it.
I'm not sure what the warning is, but I thank
(25:28):
you you mentioned that this like the recovery process, and
I think about the idea of having to take care
of a newborn, learn to breastfeed, learn to especially new moms.
Right if you've done this is your four c section,
you probably have a little idea of what's about to happen.
But what's wild to me is those first newborn moms
for the very first time are like, I have to
(25:49):
recover for how long? And I also have to take
care of my baby this whole time, and nobody really
warns you about that in the process. It's yeah, this
is a big deal, but you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Don't feel like we're super I maybe not honest, but
just not talking about it at all when we're making
informed decisions. And like I said, sometimes it's really not
a decision. In my case, if we have a baby
that's breached. To me, that's not a decision. I guess
some people might say it is, but in my opinion,
we're going to have a C section because we're at
(26:21):
much less risk than delivering badulally in some of these cases.
But it is super stressful to have to be recovering
from this and then just I even after birth, I
remember I felt so sick because of the medication that
they gave me like I was like a lot of
(26:43):
people are throwing up. I don't remember if I did
or not. I might have, but again they're trying to
like give me a baby when I'm like vomiting, and
I'm like, are you out of your mind? Like what
is happening?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
This is like I can't even take care of myself
right now. Don't give me something that needs me to
help it survive, That's right.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So it gets a little weird. I think again, we've
just normalized it is a normal way to give birth,
Like the babies are coming out through the window instead
of the door, and it's very safe relative to other things,
but compared to a vaginal deliberate it's not quite as safe.
And then the recovery time is intense, especially sometimes right afterwards.
(27:23):
And this was a planned sea section. When we're talking
about an emergency sea section, that can be way riskier
all the way around. And then depending on why did
we have that in the first place, what was going
on with the mom, what was going on with the baby.
Now we might have a baby in the nick you
for some reason, or mom's had to be moved to
a different part of the hospital. I can get really
(27:43):
complex and challenging for new parents to navigate this and
just navigated period. Forget about breastfeeding. Sometimes that goes out
the window pretty quickly when we're in that kind of
a situation, very much so.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And we're now to this point where it's after the
baby is born. And a big piece of this, what
we mentioned right at the beginning, is that there's a
stage at which people forget that these parents there exists
and they have a newborn and this is what's happening
in their lives for the rest of their lives. And
they don't have that village in community as much as
they did in the very beginning. And there's also postpartum
(28:19):
that comes with that. So what are some things that
you're seeing maybe to help parents, especially moms, get through
that postpartum season and get through it without having to
face that, because that is another thing we just really
don't talk about a lot because joyful having a baby.
It's great, you created life, but hey, also you might
have some depression, anxiety and stress that come with us,
(28:41):
but don't worry about it. It'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, that gets really hard to especially not being in
community because now, and I mentioned I had postpartum depression.
It didn't go diagnosed because I never told anybody about it,
because what am I going to say, I'm bad at
being a mom. I don't think I can do this.
I decided to have a baby, and now I feel
like I can't say I didn't want this or I'm
(29:05):
bad at this. So the feelings of like shame and
guilt are big in moms, and it's like it's not
even their fault, Like we've had this major hormonal flux
that has triggered some kind of depression. Now if we
have a baby that's not for eastfeeding pain, we're not sleeping,
that makes it all worse. But it's not like they
(29:25):
did something wrong, but they don't know that you can't
see it when you're inside of it. And so now
if you're lucky enough to have a partner, they're the
ones that are responsible. So one thing I would say
is that if you're supporting somebody who's pregnant, learn about
the baby blues and learn about postpartum depression, because we
want to normalize those things so that you understand it's
(29:48):
pretty normal for that big mood swing to happen over
the first few days after birth and to feel very
teary sometimes even though this is supposed to be the
happiest day of my life, why am I crying? And
most of the rest of the day I can move
out of that and still enjoy myself and still laugh
or eat dinner something. If that continues to pick up,
(30:09):
get worse and worse, and now I'm crying more and more.
I'm just shutting off emotionally. Now we're headed into postpartum
depression territory, and again I don't know it because I'm
inside of it. So for the partner to be able
to be checking in daily and just being like, hey,
how are you feeling, how are you doing? What can
I do for you? What's the hardest thing today? I
(30:29):
like that question a lot. What's the most challenging thing
for you today? And telling Mom, this is so hard
right now and you are doing such a great job
in spite of these challenges. I see how hard you're trying.
Moms need to hear that, and they're not hearing it
from the community anymore. They don't get it from the village.
(30:49):
So that partner has a lot of new responsibilities that
sometimes as men, they're not as in touch with that
womanly mothering part of themselves at nurture part of themselves.
So I think all of this needs to happen before
we have the baby for it to work out. So
I think there's a lot of work that can be
done prenatally with couples going to classes, asking questions, learning
(31:11):
about what's normal. How can the partner support mom knowing
the signs, how to talk to her about it, what
to do if we feel like this is not okay,
You're not alone. There is help and things are going
to change, but we need to take some action to
get there. But that falls on the partner a lot
of the time.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, and I love that you said that, because it
does right. This isn't just one person who's part of
this picture, and sometimes it is, and that breaks my
heart in itself, and it's an entirely different story. But
when there is a partnership that's happening and one of
them is just removed from the scenario, and I'm like, hey,
you made half of that. Just because it's coming out
of her, you still have a whole lot of responsibility
(31:54):
that's about to come. And it's so funny. I was
my poor brother in law when my sister told me
she was pregnant. I think I sent him so many
different social media clips of taking.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Care of her.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I was like, I'm not there. We live in separate cities,
so you I like you right now. We've gotten along
this whole time, but I'm gonna make sure that you're
also going to show up in this way because I
need you to for my sister. And I knew he would.
He's an incredible dad and incredible partner, but it was
like I wanted to help him also have information that
I don't know that I even knew. It was an
(32:26):
entire community trying to help to make sure. One of
the things that I was so profoundly just really in
touch with for my sister was like I need to
check in with you all the time, and how are
you doing, and how are you feeling about this? Talk
to me about what you are instead of being like
how's the baby, talk to me about your new baby.
It was like, Mom, you're still my sister, and I
(32:47):
want to know about your life and how you are.
So that was something I really recognized in just a
lot of friends and a lot of people I've seen
have babies too.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
She's really lucky to have you, no, thank you, but
I bet you recognize the need for that well.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
And I hope it helps other people recognize. But it
took me seeing and experiencing other people going through this
to say, I need to make sure I'm aware of
this when this does happen for my best friend. Need
to be the one who's checking in on her, because
it's really easy and too no fault of anybody's right.
A new baby's exciting, and having a new family member
and all of these things are so exciting, but Mom's
(33:26):
still there and she's still very much a part of
that picture, so it's not just the baby. And that
was something that I hopefully me saying that. It was
just like, oh, yeah, I need to flip that switch,
because it's easy. It gets lost in the mix.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
That's so true. And I like what you said about
maybe you saying that was the first time that she
even thought about herself, because we forget about ourselves as moms,
and we're so hyper focused on is the baby okay,
is the baby breathing? Is a baby eating? And I
forget that, Like I'm here too, and I'm alive, and
I need to keep myself alive, and I need to
be okay as possible, and I stop thinking about that.
(34:05):
So it's important not just to be checking in, but
also for you to make mom remember that she needs
to be thinking about this too. And again, we've lost
a lot of that connection with other people in a community.
So if you have a family member that is pregnant
having a baby, friends check in on them. So as
(34:25):
somebody's checking in on the baby, I promise you like
that baby's getting checked over a million times a day.
But mom gets left out sometimes, and that's a bit
problematic from a lot of different angles in my opinion.
I hope we're going to do better with Sometimes a
mom won't even see her doctor for six weeks after
(34:46):
she delivers, so she has a baby and her first
obguia check up is six weeks most part Wow, that's
fifteen lifetimes with a new baby. Six weeks. Oh. Are
you breastfeeding? No? Like I quit three weeks ago because
it was so hard, Like your whole life is changing
day by day, the baby's doing different things. If I'm breastfeeding,
(35:06):
my body's changing. We need better postpartum support just through
the medical system as a different topic, but in the meantime,
people who are around mom in her community. Even if
we're living far away, we do have FaceTime and we
do have phone calls. Take advantage of those. I think
also having conversations about it before we have the baby.
(35:29):
I think I mentioned that, but just to reinforce everybody
having a conversation with mom because her whole identity is
going to change. We often don't talk about that either,
where it's like, well, I'm having a baby, what do
I need to buy? What are the hacks? And I'm
like cool, Like you can get that probably literally anywhere
on social media. But who's talking about like, your whole
life is going to change, You're not going to be
(35:50):
the same person ever again, and your relationship is never
going to be the same relationship ever again. I think
we need to spend some time thinking about that and
walking through that. In addition to all the things we're
going to buy the baby, showers and all with that.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, that is so important because it is it's a
focus on what all do I need? How do I
make sure the house is prepared? It's the baby room ready?
Is do we have everything the baby needs? And those
conversations there doesn't feel like there's a lot of space
for it in all of the noise and not intentionally,
but just there's so much else happening when you do
(36:28):
have new parents who are coming in or maybe people
who are thinking about having kids or anything along those lines.
What are those conversations that you just mentioned a few there,
and I just want to make sure how all of
them because this might be the first time they're even
hearing that they should be talking about these things.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, I think feeling feeling like I really trust my partner?
Do we have any trust issues that we need to
work on? Talk through and just saying, hey, do you
trust me? What about this relationship? Could I be doing better?
Because literally, like my life is now dependent upon my partner.
(37:04):
So the dad sometimes you can change the diapers or
you're keeping your family alive and dad partner whoever, again,
if we're lucky enough to have that person is like
eyes on the big picture now and is baby okay? Yes,
but like mom's pretty attuned to that. Is mom okay?
And what does that look like? And then is the
(37:25):
household okay? And talking through I want you to be
able to tell me when you're feeling anything that's wrong
or there's a big challenge, like I want to be
the first to know. I want to hear what do
you need, Like you can ask me for anything, like
just really building and making a solid foundation of like trust,
(37:48):
because it really it can be life and death when
we talk about like new baby, new mom. There are
risks that go along with this, and we want to
make sure that everybody's safe and healthy, and that involves
level of trust between caregivers. So really working on your
relationship if there's any sort of stress around that, And
of course those of us who have been married, like
(38:10):
leading up to the wedding, it can get a little
stressful sometimes with our future spouses, and like having a baby,
sometimes leading up to that can get a little stressful.
And I see it happening postpart him as well. But
the couples that I know are going to be okay
are the ones that I know because they've told me
about like how wonderful this person is for them, and
(38:31):
they know that and they say it, and they they
can be vulnerable with that person. They can share their deepest,
darkest fears with that person and trust that they're going
to be able to receive that and help in whatever
way that they can. So that's critical and then the
household management. One of the best things that my now
(38:53):
ex husband did when we were expecting the baby was
he got very serious and he came in one day.
I was having a ccon and it was planned. We
knew like tomorrow we're having a baby or something, and anyway,
he came in. He's very serious and he has like
a pad of paper and a pencil and he's like,
I need you to tell me everything that you do
(39:13):
in this house. And I was like, ah, and I'm
telling you. Like he realized I do a lot of
things that he doesn't even know what they are, and
he realizes that's all going to change, and I'm not
doing crab for at least a couple of weeks now,
and he's going to have to do it. So that
was amazing. So I share that story with new couples
(39:33):
and say, have that conversation, what are each of you
doing in this household and know that Mom's not going
to be doing a lot of that at least for
a minute, please.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
No, really, at least for several weeks. Actually, yeah, that's
those are such important questions. And once again, like you
speak from that counseling perspective, I'm sure too. Of just
we do see a lot of resentment that comes after
people have a baby because life does change, and it's
to be dramatic. It's supposed to hit you with a
reality that this is going to be different. It's gonna
(40:05):
be awesome, and there's gonna be exciting moments, but there's
also gonna be a lot of changes, and are you
prepared for that? Are what is your life? It's no
different than when you're about to get married. It's like,
are you sure you want to be with that guy
for the rest of your life?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Like?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Have we gone through the whole questions? And have you
answered all of them? How do you feel? There's a
cool trend that's been happening online that I've been seeing
lately of people saying it's important who you marry, and
they're showing these really hard moments in their life. And
I wish I could stress that so much more because
it's all I see, right, And I've seen so many
(40:39):
different perspectives of this, and I've lived in so many
different partner situations, and the one thing I always come
back to is are you gonna be able to get
me through the toughest moment of my life. Are you
gonna be able to get through loss? Are you gonna
be able to help me get through? If I do
decide to have a child and push it out of
my body? What are you gonna do? What's that going
(40:59):
to look like? And I wish more people had that
conversation with themselves before marriage, before having kids, all of it.
I think that's such an important topic.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It really is. And I just saw something funny and
it was like, ladies, you're gonna meet a man when
you're twenty three years old, and you're gonna know that
he's the one. It's very important that you don't marry.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
And I was like, oh day, okay, Like I feel
called out a little bit, but all right, it's so true.
Though sometimes it feels that way and it's just not it.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
And also we do the best we can with where
we're at hindsight is twenty twenty. Often within the situation,
it does feel like this is the person, this is
the one that can do all the things. And then
when push comes to shop, but I didn't know that
because we didn't we never had a baby together, so
a lot of these things are kind of first and
I don't even know how I'm gonna be so it
(41:53):
gets it can be like it's not a perfect equation
where if we talk about it in advance and everything's
going to be great and there's not going to be
any problems. No, there's definitely that's not how this works.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
No, you could have all the conversations you want, you
can still not be prepared for certain things. That's life.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
And I like to really stress that because the pressure
to be perfect and having a baby, the pressure to
be perfect parents is bigger than ever, and now social media,
like the whole world has their opinion on what that
looks like and how to be the best parent. You're
going to mess up one hundred percent. You are not
going to be a perfect parent. But that's okay as
(42:34):
long as you're able to remain focused on what does
my baby need right now? And I'm trying my best
to answer that need. That's a great parent, not somebody
who bought the right things or showed the right video
or these kinds of trendy social media things. But you
have to allow for the flexibility. And I said this
(42:56):
before in my videos, take that word failure and take
it out of your vocabulary when it comes to being
a new parent. When it comes to breastfeeding, get rid
of that word and replace it with another F word,
not the one you're thinking of. Replace it with another
F word. Flexible. I didn't fail at anything. I was
flexible in meeting the ever changing needs of a little
(43:18):
baby mammal. And that's where we need. The land is
just saying like I'm showing up and doing my best,
but I'm going to get it wrong, and this baby's
gonna tell me. They're going to tell you got it wrong,
and you get to try again until you get it right.
And if you can't get it right, you pick up
the phone and you call somebody, help, come help me.
I don't know how to take care of this baby.
(43:39):
But even that asking for help, that's where again we've
lost that community, that village. None of that would even
have happened if we were still living with each other
in these close knit situations. So you will mess up.
Your relationship is going to experience friction because you're becoming
new people and you've never met that person before, or
(44:01):
you've never met the baby before. This was a new dynamic,
it's a new family unit. Like, there will be friction,
there will be stress. How do you work through that
with each other? How is that con historically? What do
we need to talk about in terms of how to
best get through it when it comes up after the
baby arrives. These kinds of things I think are critical.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Oh yeah, and wow, having those conversations is so important.
Even the idea that you can have those conversations shows
that you're in a good place to be able to
approach this type of situation. It's the ones where you
may not be able to even have a conversation that
I would be a little concerned about. But to your point, Yeah,
nothing's perfect. Everything is going to come with its challenges,
and I think that's what's so cool about having you
(44:42):
on to share those experiences to hopefully the whole purpose
is always of this podcast is to make people feel
less alone. And the one area that I don't have
a lot of experience with because I'm not a mom
or a parent in any way, that is motherhood is
such a journey and parenthood is, and it's such an
individualized one that there's just not a one size fits all,
(45:07):
But there is information you can consume to help you.
And that's what I think is really cool.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
What you're doing thank you so much. Yeah, everything you
said is absolutely true, and we have moved out of
the literal village situation, but we still can find it
if we look forward. It is out there. There are
places to call if you I don't have anybody else
to call, Yes, you do. There's phone numbers you can
call that will pick up at three thirty am and
(45:32):
help you with whatever you've got going on. And knowing that,
and there are social media accounts like mine, I hope
to think that are really trying to help you get
through at support and I do. I get a lot
of requests in dms. I can't just do that with
my life. I don't have time or else. I would.
If I were independently wealthy, y'all, I would be answering
every single one of the dms about I need help.
(45:53):
I need help. But I do try once in a
while to do that. But no that in this In
the United States, if you have health insurance ones, you
receive free elactation benefits. So I want everybody to hear
that and know that you pay nothing as long as
the lactationan zone is in network with your insurance. Take
advantage that nothing is free. You're paying for it somewhere
along the line. But when it comes to I show
(46:14):
up at your house, you don't have to give me anything,
like I'm getting paid and I'm helping you. And a
lot of times you can even have like up to
six visits with a lactation insult and at no extra cost.
So that's really important to remember if you're struggling with breastfeeding, pumping,
bottle feeding.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
That's why I love that. That's really good to know.
I don't think a lot of people know that and
are aware of it. Resources are everything, so we are
in a different time, but at least hopefully the resources
are so infinite that you can find what you're looking
for and hopefully for something like that, Hey, it's girl math,
it's basically free, so just do it.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yes, I do like to end this podcast on it's
either a piece of advice or motivation, or maybe it's
something that we didn't talk about that you'd really like
to talk about. I give the floor over to you
and you end us on something. So this is me
transferring power right now.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Wow, I wasn't ready for this. There's so many little things, but.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
And you can hit a bunch too. If You're like,
there's no rules to this. I just like to end
on something that you're really passionate about or want to share.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Everybody out there who's having a baby, going to have
planning to have a baby, you this is gonna be
a weird one.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
You are a mammal and that means that by definition,
you do have some behaviors and instincts. You make milk.
Nobody has to breastfeed. I think that's fine, but you're
gonna make milk no matter what because your mammal body
is doing a lot of things growing a baby, creed
milk for the baby, and maternal instincts are real in
every mammal end in you. It is inside of you.
(47:47):
So sitting with yourself and really I think getting to
that truth. Yeah, you can watch social media, watch videots,
but also just sit quietly and just think about yourself
as a mother. Who am I as a mother? Does
that look like? How have I mothered other people in
my life? How do I nurture those around me? What
do I feel when I think about having this baby.
(48:09):
That's a great way to start getting in touch with
who you are as a mother, because it is it's
built into your DNA. You can't escape it. We feel
very removed from it. But just sitting quietly, even just
once before you have the baby a couple of times
would be great. I think going to groups where women
are talking about these things could be super helpful. But
(48:30):
you can do this. And the last thing I'll just
say is that your best is good enough. You are
the perfect mother for your baby. They think you're literally
a goddess. That's what they think. You're judging yourself. Stop
doing that. It's your baby fed. You did a great job,
is your baby loved cared for? You're doing You're rocking it.
(48:53):
It doesn't look the way that you want it. That's okay.
That's another problem though, that has nothing to do with
your worth as a mother. Get some help, Get help
before you give up. Get help if you need help.
But you're doing a great job taking care of this baby,
just as you are.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
And we wouldn't be here sitting here having this conversation
if people like you didn't exist. So Michelle, thank you
for everything that you're doing and the information you're sharing.
Do you want to shout out your Instagram page so
they can follow you? If you have that content?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
There's one minute milk bites. Please come follow me, drop
me a message, say you saw me on Warren's podcast.
I'd love to chat and thank you for listening and
seeing what I have to do, what I'm doing with
my life. I love it. It makes me feel very
(49:40):
validated and motivated to continue. So thanks for having me
on and letting me spread the word too as many
people as want to listen to it.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Oh yeah, you are doing amazing things. Like I said,
I found you from my sister who kept sending me things.
I was like, I don't even have a baby, but
I will keep taking this from you. And I thought
you were going to be such a great guest. You are,
so thank you for spreading information. Keep going and I'll
make sure to link her profile in the show notes
too so you guys can find it easily. But again,
thanks Michelle, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Thanks Marian.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
That wraps up our new Parent episode. Hopefully you all
got some wisdom or a moment of relatability these last
two weeks. The next time I talk to you, we
will be in the new year, starting our next era.
I'll be sharing an episode with my grandma Bernie, who
is an incredible woman and firecracker with lots of stories
to share. I'll post things on my socials in case
you want to stay in the loop at take this
personally happy almost New Year friends, Stay safe this week.
(50:32):
I'm so happy that you're here.
Personally, Feldsman, I've got Michelle Pool with me this week.
Her instagram one Minute Milk Bites is helping new parents
everywhere with advice in quick one minute videos. I'm excited
for you all to hear who drops some major family knowledge.
Here we go. Michelle Pool is a nurse at the
(00:34):
Maven Clinic and she is awesome about sharing so much
information online about babies, motherhood, the boobies, all the things.
So Michelle, thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thanks so much for having me and Morgan very excited
to talk all things babies today.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, I would love to know. So you work at
the Maven Clinic. You work, and you guys are family building, fertility, pregnancy, parenting, menopause,
all the things that are around this. But talk to me
about starting that and why you got into that line
of work. But then also your social media page and
why you're sharing the information that you are online.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, I mean, how much time do we have? Kidding?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
You can go as far as you want. We love
to get deep on here.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
The short version is that I have a master's degree counseling,
and before I even thought about having a baby, I
was a counselor and I helped families with children with
special needs and did that kind of behavior therapy. So
I was in that world. When I became pregnant. I
was told that breastfeeding was easy and natural. It's just
(01:37):
like breathing. And I was like, oh, cool, then I
don't need to take a class or read any books.
That sounds like a big waste of time. But when
my baby came around, it.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Was really really difficult for me, and I struggled. I
was doing all of the things with the breasts and
the pumps and the bottles and the formula and the nippleshield,
and I started to lose it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And I didn't know what postpartum depression was because I
didn't take any of the classes. You see, it's good
to take classes, guys. And I just thought, I'm really
bad at this. I'm not cut out to be doing this.
And luckily I did get some help from a visiting nurse.
Things fell into place. My little baby, God bless him,
decided to participate and try to figure it out with me.
(02:26):
Some babies don't, and that's okay too, But it just worked.
And it took a couple of weeks before I was like, oh,
it is easy. And natural. After eight weeks of really
hard a lot of ups and downs, I would imagine,
now it is now, you just put the baby on
the breast and we're done. Ah, Like, this is why
(02:47):
people breastfeed. I almost gave up, which would have been fine.
Something was gonna give my mental health or breastfeeding, and
it just worked out that I was able to keep both.
But I really, it can be easy and natural if
we get through that learning curve, make it through the
zombie haze of becoming a new parent. I almost didn't
(03:11):
know that because I would have just stopped and what
I would have hated breastfeeding and said, don't do that.
That's a really bad idea. But because I had both
perspectives and I was a counselor, I was like, ah,
I think there's a new pathway for me here to
use my counseling skills and learn about lactation and babies
(03:32):
and then marry those into a new job. I became
a nurse because that seemed to be helpful in the
whole overarching career path. Did my time as an intern
and studied and did the exams and ended up with
a lot of different jobs in the realm of babies
and newborn care and breastfeeding. I've worked at hospitals, lactation centers,
(03:54):
nick us birth centers, outpatient home visits, and then the
pandemic app and a lot of things switched over to
online and that's where I actually worked for Maveon before
that happened. But I have several jobs now, Maven is
one of them. They are not only taking care of
(04:15):
moms pregnancy, having babies, postpartum, but throughout the life cycle
of women, which I just love every bit of that
and love being a part of their team. So that's
why I'm sitting in front of you today. And the
social media just I don't know, two or three years ago,
I just felt like I can give more. I'm seeing
(04:36):
so many moms who are struggling so much with just
not knowing the very basics of this thing. And we
can talk more about that, but that's where the social
media part came in.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I love this and you mentioned that we'll definitely get
into it about how it's a life cycle.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
We like to think we push people into having kids
and oh, it's so exciting and you have a kid
and they're here, this is cool, and then it's like
everybody disappears. And I've seen that happen and so many
of my friends and so many of the people that
I love, and it really breaks my heart because that's
when that's the most isolating moment of their lives, is
this new thing is so exciting and they were so
(05:16):
excited for it, But also nobody warns you about what
happens after everybody's excited about it, and nobody's that village
disperses because they're like, oh, you got it, you know
what you're doing, and the moms and dads are sitting
there like, no, we don't. Hey, we're still here kind
of thing. So we'll definitely get into that. I want
to talk about it, but particularly a lot of the
content you mentioned about new moms in this very first
(05:39):
phase of having the baby and them and being like,
what am I doing? And it's a fear I think
a lot of women have, especially because they're like, I
don't know how to do this and I don't have
all these tools. Everybody says the mother instinct happens, and
it does, but there's also a lot of fear that
comes with that. So what do you see a lot
where moms are starting to freak out and they don't
(06:01):
know things. Talk to me through those things that you're
seeing and experiencing with people.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, I think it ties into what you were just
talking about, where we're not set up for a village
anymore as a human species. For hundreds of thousands of years,
we did live together in community in a village. There
weren't lactation consultants. Other mothers were the lactation consultants for
(06:26):
the new moms, and we helped each other and if
you couldn't breastfeeding, I would breastfeed your baby. Problem solved
and then we try to help you. But it was
a very village led effort. And now, of course we're
very isolated in general, so new parents are isolated. But
I think that's just a reflection of the bigger picture
of what's been going on probably for the last one
(06:47):
hundred to two hundred years, since the industrial Revolution, since
we all had to get everybody has to have a job.
We can't just have a dad goes off to work
and I get to stay home. Not that there's anything
wrong with that or wanting to go to work, but
a lot of people don't even have the choice. Both
parents must go back to work. We are able to
move away from our village. I did, and there's good
(07:10):
things about that and not to good things about that.
When it comes to raising a little baby, I think
moms definitely start to feel that isolation if they're not
at least near their family or friends. So I think
that has a lot to do with kind of the
origination of why moms are feeling so disconnected from themselves
(07:33):
and their babies and each other, because that's the society
that we live in.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
It's not their fault, yeah, it very much is. And
writ like you're mentioning, it's part of that bigger picture.
And it's hard to watch because there is such an
encouragement of have kids, you should have kids, don't not
have kids, but we're not really supporting them in the
way to give people the belief that it's safe to do.
So it's like this scary thing. And so that's why
(07:59):
I love what you're doing, is you found this gap
and you're like, I'm trying to provide the support and
I'm trying to help you guys through this, and so
you do milk bites in which I love, and they're
really walking through the basic steps of hey, breastfeeding, So
talk to me about breastfeeding and why that kind of
became a little niche for you. When it comes to
social media.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think breastfeeding again because we've lost touch with the
community the village. Many moms who are having a baby,
they've never actually seen somebody having a baby before. So
like if we lived in the village five hundred years
ago and you were having a baby, I would be
at your bedside helping you out. There would be women around,
(08:41):
and we would just know what this is and what
it looks like and what to do. So a lot
of women who are having kids, they've never even seen
that happen. And then when it comes to putting a
baby to their breast, they've never seen that either until
it's their baby, And now mistakes are high. If we're
trying to exclusively breastfeed, we're trying to keep the baby
alive from the breast alone. But I have no idea
(09:04):
what I've never even seen it happen before, so I
feel very at a disadvantage. And then the moms, like
you mentioned the maternal instinct, there's a baby instinct as well,
So moms feel out of touch with that instinct and
I think they are, and again that's no fault of
their own, but they don't know that the baby has
(09:25):
instincts as well, and to learn some of those baby
behaviors and the reflexes that the babies are born with
to get to the breast can be so helpful before
the baby comes along. But all in all, when it
comes to baby feeding, we can breastfeed, we can formula feed,
we can pump, or all three. Breastfeeding seems to be
the harder one to get under our belts and a
(09:46):
steeper learning curve. So that's where I give the most
help because I feel like it's the hardest of the
three things. I do try to talk to pumping moms
and formula feeding moms as well, because formula feeding moms
get left in the dust sometimes things like you're breastfeeding,
that's hard. Pumping's also hard. Oh you're formula feeding. I
read the back of the can.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, And it's not that simple. Nothing is ever that simple.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
That's right. That's right. So I try to help everybody out,
But it is the breastfeeding where we're getting the most
kind of confused and tied up and lacking just very
basic information, not only about the mechanics of it, but
also just the biological components of it, which I think
are really important to the big story.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And a part of this picture. We're obviously seeing a
huge shift and people wanting to be aware of what
they're consuming, what their babies are consuming, what's happening. So
I'm imagining that's also a role in this when it
comes to formula and breastfeeding and pumping and stuff. Are
you seeing that transition happen as well.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It's really heartbreaking to me because moms are always constantly
comparing themselves to get a sense of how they're doing.
And that's also just a reflection I think of society
that we live in, and it's like I have to
look at you and you to know that I'm doing
a good job, which isn't how anything really works. But
(11:08):
they're doing that, and then they're hearing messaging from people
like me. I don't say this, but some lactationian consultants
may say, or adopters or healthcare professionals may say, breast
is best, breastfeeding is best for your baby, and they
just hit with that message again and again, and then
when that isn't going well, they've tied it up with parenting.
(11:29):
It's not just like breast is best. It's like, oh,
breast is best, and therefore, if I'm breastfeeding, I'm the
best parent. Like I didn't say that, That's not what
I said, but that's what they're hearing. And I've been
really asking lactation consultants to change that messaging because we
know how harmful that can be when the mom is
now tied up if I'm breastfeeding really well, that I'm
a good parent, and when that starts to fall apart,
(11:49):
I'm not as good as a parent anymore. But at
least I can pump. And now they're pumping, but comparing
like the volumes that they're getting, we're having people telling them, oh,
when you pump milk, it's not as good. Is that
the baby's just breastfeeding? And then when that's not working,
they have to use formula, and so the formula. I'm
so grateful that we have formula that nobody has to
(12:10):
breastfeed if they don't want to, if they can't, we
have something to feed the baby. And we live in
this society where the almighty dollar rules, and so formula
companies are marketing to these vulnerable moms and trying to
tell them why their formula is the best one and
it can't even be in this country anymore.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Now.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's like, well, you have to go and buy the
European formula if you want to be the best mom.
So it really is heartbreaking to see these moms just
trying to do They just want to do what's best
for their baby, but they lose sight that, like their
best is the best for the baby. Just being themselves
is the best for the baby. Loving the baby, taking
care of the baby, the baby trust that I'm going
(12:50):
to meet their needs. That's what we got to be
focusing on, not like how many ounces of milk you pumped,
whether you were at the breast or pumped it, what
kind of formula did you buy? But they've tied that
up with how good a parent I am. So I'm
trying to unravel that problem, which again is people like
me caused that. So I want everybody in my side
(13:11):
of the screen today to take responsibility here and think
about how the language we're using is messing moms up.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, and it's funny you mentioned that we had just
done a podcast episode. We're really talking about social media
and how the twist and turns. It's turned on so
many different levels, from therapy to parenting to so much
a part of what we understand and how we compare
ourselves and what that all looks like. And it's super
damaging for the real life experience versus the online experience.
(13:39):
So I know that's playing such a significant role. And
I want to get back to that thing you mentioned
about baby instincts because this can also be a way
that moms and dads can be the best parent they
can be, because I think I should have thought about that,
that babies do have instinct there they're a little human,
but that's definitely not something anybody has told me about,
so to me about that.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, this is also it's funny in a way, like
it's very sad, but it's also funny because when parents'
first time parents who have not been around newborn babies,
have not lived in that community where we're helping each
other out when they have and I'll get one of
my baby props.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I love a baby prop. This is perfect baby prop.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So we have the baby arrives on the scene and
it's like, what do I do with this? And parents' dads,
especially are like holding a baby like this, like ah,
and they're like, what, Like I need an instruction manual?
What do I do with this little creature? Is this
even human? It seems like it's a foreign species to us.
That's how far we removed we are from it. So
(14:42):
part of what I'm doing and in the future, in
the near future, I think I'm going to start another
Instagram channel or some kind of social media channel where
I'm really trying to build these basics of this is
a human being. You know how to take care of
a human being. You've taken care of a lot of
human things in your life. This is one of them.
They just happen to be a lot smaller. But when
(15:04):
we just reframe it even that, I get parents who
are like I never thought of it like that, and
I'm like, wow, well, and we have a lot of
work to do, but it's good that now you are
thinking of this as a human. This is a mammal,
and if you can learn some basic things about mammal babies,
it's going to apply to your baby as well. And
(15:24):
then we can just start to say what are what
is this baby mammal born with the ability to do?
And there's social media it's problematic in this space, and
it's also a blessing because it gives me an opportunity
to just get the message out there. There are other
providers who are giving good, evidence based, nice, not harmful information,
(15:50):
and there are so many videos that we can go
watch now of what happens when a baby is born.
Did you know that every baby goes through the same
nine behaviors after they come.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
No, can you tell me about these nine behaviors? Because
I feel like I feel like I'm reading a whole
educational experience right now.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's super cool. So I'm not going to go through
all nine of the steps. But if you go anybody
that's listening and you want to see what I'm talking about,
if you look up newborn babies, breast crawl, newborn babies,
the Golden Hour, like then you're gonna see these babies
who are fresh out. They're out now, they're living in
(16:29):
the world, and they do nine of the same things.
So it's like they cry, they rest, they like look around,
and eventually they get themselves to the breast. So like
step nine is like they've latched and started eating. And
if I just now this is okay, so here and
it has to be a normal vaginal delivery with no interventions,
(16:53):
and that's pretty rare these days. It still happens. It
happens in birth centers, it can happen in the hospital
if you're vocal about it. There's sometimes are compromises we
have to make. But we could have a baby who's
going skin to skin after birth, full term delivery, and
all I have to do as a mom is just
(17:14):
make sure the baby doesn't fall off of the bed,
and this baby will put herself onto my breast. Parents
don't know that, and when they see the videos, they're like,
it's mind blowing. I've seen a lot of babies doing
this over the years, and it still like makes me
weep because it's just this beautiful thing that I have
no idea what I'm doing. Thank goodness, this.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Baby goes no it got that's natural instinct, Like as
soon as they're out of the.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Womb one hundred percent, so within the first hour, you're
going to see all of those things happen, these stages
that our baby mammals go through, and that is that
can be a big shift for parents. To see it
on a video is one thing, and that can make
them say wow. What But then when they have their baby,
it's amaz just to have them just sit back. You
(18:03):
don't have to do anything. You don't because they're just like,
what do I do? Like you don't even have to
do anything, literally, like just relax and hold your baby
and watch what they can do. And then as we
move forward, now it's nice for you to be able
to sit up and hold them and do the things,
but if you just lean back, they'll do a lot
of the work for you, which is super cool.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You mentioned that a specifically the traditional style of birth,
So does that change if c section is part of
this and different things? What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It can look a lot of different ways. We have,
of course, a lot of studies now that show us
what it can look like. And so if you have
an epidoral, let's say, and some moms want an epidoral,
which is totally fine, and some moms don't want an epidoral,
but then they do and that's also fine, and some
moms don't want one, but then the healthcare team is like,
(18:58):
you really should get one because of medical reasons. It's
safe for the baby in terms of the medication. But
if you think about what an epidural. It is, you know,
it's a numbing agent. And so it's not that the
baby doesn't get any of the medicine. They do. And
so sometimes just depends like the dose of the epidoral,
(19:20):
how far away we are from delivering the baby, all
of these kinds of things. But we see that babies
who were born to a mother who had an epidoral,
they're not quite as feisty. If you go look up
the breast crawl, you're going to see these babies that
are like doing push up some of the mom's chest
and bobbing their head and eating their hands and pushing
(19:41):
with their feet to get to the breast. And that's
what we would love to see. Babies who have some
kind of medication in their system might not be quite
as bright eyed and bushy tail. They might be a
little just a little sloppier, a little more relaxed about
the whole thing. And as that medication wears off, they
(20:01):
will start to pick up with those behaviors, they don't
lose them. It's really important for those moms who had
to have an epidural. I hate I had to have
a C section. I had all medication, and thank you
for all the medication for that, And I had a
baby that was flappy and not super into things for
a minute, and I've seen lots of babies like that
(20:22):
in the job that I do. Keep that baby skin
to skin with you. That's if anybody's listening today, if
there's one take home message, hold your baby skin to
skin as much as you can, as often as you can,
and when you get tired of it, give it to dad,
give it to your partner, give baby to grandma to
hold in skin to skin. It's so good for them.
(20:43):
It's really great for breastfeeding.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Development.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's like the neurons are firing in the baby when
they're held skin to skin. They it's really cool science
stuff where they have like sensors on the front of
their body that are talking to them about where they
are and what they need to do and triggering feeding reflexes.
And if the baby has had any medication, as that
wears off, I'm going to start seeing some of those
(21:09):
behaviors that I wanted to see when they were born.
And I'm going to be the first to know if
the baby is right here and know that okay, now
it's time to feed. So there are some differences, but
generally they're short term. Within twenty four to thirty six hours,
we should see a baby kind of free of the
medication and acting like fiery little mammals trying to eat.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Oh wow, that's so fascinating. Then they do not teach
you that in school, that's for sure. And it's also interesting.
I've seen some stories recently coming out talking about sea sections,
so I'd love your take on that, because it's there's
and I don't know. You may not have one, and
you may not know, but it's more the we're seeing
that sea sections were pushed a lot for people to
(21:52):
have them and versus having natural birth or whatever they
wanted to have. I loved watching my sister navigate this
for the first time, because I said it in the
very beginning. I was like, one thing I know from
all the information I've taken in is just be your
own advocate, do whatever you want to do, and stand
up for yourself. You deserve that, and she did in
every way, and she fought like hell to do the
(22:13):
things that she wanted to do as long as it
was safe for her and her baby. And that was
really cool to watch. But it's also interesting now seeing
a lot of the feedback come out online about sea
sections and this push to have them done. So is
there anything you can share in shed light on that
kind of situation that's really unfolding right now.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, Like I mentioned, I had a sea section. My
baby was breach and he didn't turn, and he didn't
turn and he didn't turn, and when I finally delivered
be a sea section, they said he was never going
to turn, like he was folded up like a taco
this way, there was no room for him to move.
So fank goodness. We have sea sections for medical reasons.
(22:52):
It is major abdominal surgery, and we forget that because
it's so commonplace when we're talking about having a baby
and it took oh you can give or you're gonna
have a sea section, it's like it's major abdominal surgery.
And not only is it major abdominal surgery, maybe even
at this point we can hold baby skinned skin after
a sea section. A lot of hospitals are doing that now.
(23:13):
But imagine like going in for any other abdominal surgery,
like you're gonna have some kind of liver surgery or surgery.
You're on your stomach and you are awake for the surgery,
and ten minutes later they go, here's a baby, Please
keep it alive. Can you imagine, But that's what we're
doing when we have a sea section and we're like,
here's your baby. Don't pull your stitches out. Be really
(23:37):
careful holding them, like make sure when you're breastfeeding, they're
not kicking your incision. It's crazy. So we've really normalized
it in a way that I think is a detriment
to the way that moms are thinking about it and
they're not. And like I said, I'm glad we have
them and everyone you should do what you would like
to do, but make an informed decision and recognize that
(23:57):
you are having your body open up and they're taking
your organs out and laying them on your stomach and
then they're cutting. So it's like it's a big deal.
There can be just like with any surgery, there are
way more risks as you can imagine, involved with this
way of delivering a baby because we do it so much.
(24:18):
On the plus side, we're good at it. Yeah, I
would say probably. I don't know the evidence, so don't
quote me on this, but I would imagine that whenever
we started doing c sections that like, they're probably a
lot safer than they used to be. I would hope so.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I would hope so as well. I think we've been
doing those for a few decades.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I would hope so. But they do come with some disadvantages,
and then once you are recovery is a whole different story. Now.
I remember standing up the first day after I had
that surgery, and it was scary. It was scary. You're
not allowed to drive, you're not allowed to walk up
the stairs, you're not supposed to pick up anything bigger
(24:54):
than your baby, and if you have other kids at home,
it's a challenge to challenge. So lots of kind of
risks and downsides that I'm not sure that we're always
being honest about with moms.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Mm hmm. I think the wild experience about that too,
is that you mentioned it and you don't get to
recover completely. You're now going to get kicked out too.
They chose you on this Friday to misbehave. They are
normally angels during this whole process. They've gotten used to it.
I'm not sure what the warning is, but I thank
(25:28):
you you mentioned that this like the recovery process, and
I think about the idea of having to take care
of a newborn, learn to breastfeed, learn to especially new moms.
Right if you've done this is your four c section,
you probably have a little idea of what's about to happen.
But what's wild to me is those first newborn moms
for the very first time are like, I have to
(25:49):
recover for how long? And I also have to take
care of my baby this whole time, and nobody really
warns you about that in the process. It's yeah, this
is a big deal, but you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Don't feel like we're super I maybe not honest, but
just not talking about it at all when we're making
informed decisions. And like I said, sometimes it's really not
a decision. In my case, if we have a baby
that's breached. To me, that's not a decision. I guess
some people might say it is, but in my opinion,
we're going to have a C section because we're at
(26:21):
much less risk than delivering badulally in some of these cases.
But it is super stressful to have to be recovering
from this and then just I even after birth, I
remember I felt so sick because of the medication that
they gave me like I was like a lot of
(26:43):
people are throwing up. I don't remember if I did
or not. I might have, but again they're trying to
like give me a baby when I'm like vomiting, and
I'm like, are you out of your mind? Like what
is happening?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
This is like I can't even take care of myself
right now. Don't give me something that needs me to
help it survive, That's right.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So it gets a little weird. I think again, we've
just normalized it is a normal way to give birth,
Like the babies are coming out through the window instead
of the door, and it's very safe relative to other things,
but compared to a vaginal deliberate it's not quite as safe.
And then the recovery time is intense, especially sometimes right afterwards.
(27:23):
And this was a planned sea section. When we're talking
about an emergency sea section, that can be way riskier
all the way around. And then depending on why did
we have that in the first place, what was going
on with the mom, what was going on with the baby.
Now we might have a baby in the nick you
for some reason, or mom's had to be moved to
a different part of the hospital. I can get really
(27:43):
complex and challenging for new parents to navigate this and
just navigated period. Forget about breastfeeding. Sometimes that goes out
the window pretty quickly when we're in that kind of
a situation, very much so.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And we're now to this point where it's after the
baby is born. And a big piece of this, what
we mentioned right at the beginning, is that there's a
stage at which people forget that these parents there exists
and they have a newborn and this is what's happening
in their lives for the rest of their lives. And
they don't have that village in community as much as
they did in the very beginning. And there's also postpartum
(28:19):
that comes with that. So what are some things that
you're seeing maybe to help parents, especially moms, get through
that postpartum season and get through it without having to
face that, because that is another thing we just really
don't talk about a lot because joyful having a baby.
It's great, you created life, but hey, also you might
have some depression, anxiety and stress that come with us,
(28:41):
but don't worry about it. It'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, that gets really hard to especially not being in
community because now, and I mentioned I had postpartum depression.
It didn't go diagnosed because I never told anybody about it,
because what am I going to say, I'm bad at
being a mom. I don't think I can do this.
I decided to have a baby, and now I feel
like I can't say I didn't want this or I'm
(29:05):
bad at this. So the feelings of like shame and
guilt are big in moms, and it's like it's not
even their fault, Like we've had this major hormonal flux
that has triggered some kind of depression. Now if we
have a baby that's not for eastfeeding pain, we're not sleeping,
that makes it all worse. But it's not like they
(29:25):
did something wrong, but they don't know that you can't
see it when you're inside of it. And so now
if you're lucky enough to have a partner, they're the
ones that are responsible. So one thing I would say
is that if you're supporting somebody who's pregnant, learn about
the baby blues and learn about postpartum depression, because we
want to normalize those things so that you understand it's
(29:48):
pretty normal for that big mood swing to happen over
the first few days after birth and to feel very
teary sometimes even though this is supposed to be the
happiest day of my life, why am I crying? And
most of the rest of the day I can move
out of that and still enjoy myself and still laugh
or eat dinner something. If that continues to pick up,
(30:09):
get worse and worse, and now I'm crying more and more.
I'm just shutting off emotionally. Now we're headed into postpartum
depression territory, and again I don't know it because I'm
inside of it. So for the partner to be able
to be checking in daily and just being like, hey,
how are you feeling, how are you doing? What can
I do for you? What's the hardest thing today? I
(30:29):
like that question a lot. What's the most challenging thing
for you today? And telling Mom, this is so hard
right now and you are doing such a great job
in spite of these challenges. I see how hard you're trying.
Moms need to hear that, and they're not hearing it
from the community anymore. They don't get it from the village.
(30:49):
So that partner has a lot of new responsibilities that
sometimes as men, they're not as in touch with that
womanly mothering part of themselves at nurture part of themselves.
So I think all of this needs to happen before
we have the baby for it to work out. So
I think there's a lot of work that can be
done prenatally with couples going to classes, asking questions, learning
(31:11):
about what's normal. How can the partner support mom knowing
the signs, how to talk to her about it, what
to do if we feel like this is not okay,
You're not alone. There is help and things are going
to change, but we need to take some action to
get there. But that falls on the partner a lot
of the time.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, and I love that you said that, because it
does right. This isn't just one person who's part of
this picture, and sometimes it is, and that breaks my
heart in itself, and it's an entirely different story. But
when there is a partnership that's happening and one of
them is just removed from the scenario, and I'm like, hey,
you made half of that. Just because it's coming out
of her, you still have a whole lot of responsibility
(31:54):
that's about to come. And it's so funny. I was
my poor brother in law when my sister told me
she was pregnant. I think I sent him so many
different social media clips of taking.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Care of her.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I was like, I'm not there. We live in separate cities,
so you I like you right now. We've gotten along
this whole time, but I'm gonna make sure that you're
also going to show up in this way because I
need you to for my sister. And I knew he would.
He's an incredible dad and incredible partner, but it was
like I wanted to help him also have information that
I don't know that I even knew. It was an
(32:26):
entire community trying to help to make sure. One of
the things that I was so profoundly just really in
touch with for my sister was like I need to
check in with you all the time, and how are
you doing, and how are you feeling about this? Talk
to me about what you are instead of being like
how's the baby, talk to me about your new baby.
It was like, Mom, you're still my sister, and I
(32:47):
want to know about your life and how you are.
So that was something I really recognized in just a
lot of friends and a lot of people I've seen
have babies too.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
She's really lucky to have you, no, thank you, but
I bet you recognize the need for that well.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
And I hope it helps other people recognize. But it
took me seeing and experiencing other people going through this
to say, I need to make sure I'm aware of
this when this does happen for my best friend. Need
to be the one who's checking in on her, because
it's really easy and too no fault of anybody's right.
A new baby's exciting, and having a new family member
and all of these things are so exciting, but Mom's
(33:26):
still there and she's still very much a part of
that picture, so it's not just the baby. And that
was something that I hopefully me saying that. It was
just like, oh, yeah, I need to flip that switch,
because it's easy. It gets lost in the mix.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
That's so true. And I like what you said about
maybe you saying that was the first time that she
even thought about herself, because we forget about ourselves as moms,
and we're so hyper focused on is the baby okay,
is the baby breathing? Is a baby eating? And I
forget that, Like I'm here too, and I'm alive, and
I need to keep myself alive, and I need to
be okay as possible, and I stop thinking about that.
(34:05):
So it's important not just to be checking in, but
also for you to make mom remember that she needs
to be thinking about this too. And again, we've lost
a lot of that connection with other people in a community.
So if you have a family member that is pregnant
having a baby, friends check in on them. So as
(34:25):
somebody's checking in on the baby, I promise you like
that baby's getting checked over a million times a day.
But mom gets left out sometimes, and that's a bit
problematic from a lot of different angles in my opinion.
I hope we're going to do better with Sometimes a
mom won't even see her doctor for six weeks after
(34:46):
she delivers, so she has a baby and her first
obguia check up is six weeks most part Wow, that's
fifteen lifetimes with a new baby. Six weeks. Oh. Are
you breastfeeding? No? Like I quit three weeks ago because
it was so hard, Like your whole life is changing
day by day, the baby's doing different things. If I'm breastfeeding,
(35:06):
my body's changing. We need better postpartum support just through
the medical system as a different topic, but in the meantime,
people who are around mom in her community. Even if
we're living far away, we do have FaceTime and we
do have phone calls. Take advantage of those. I think
also having conversations about it before we have the baby.
(35:29):
I think I mentioned that, but just to reinforce everybody
having a conversation with mom because her whole identity is
going to change. We often don't talk about that either,
where it's like, well, I'm having a baby, what do
I need to buy? What are the hacks? And I'm
like cool, Like you can get that probably literally anywhere
on social media. But who's talking about like, your whole
life is going to change, You're not going to be
(35:50):
the same person ever again, and your relationship is never
going to be the same relationship ever again. I think
we need to spend some time thinking about that and
walking through that. In addition to all the things we're
going to buy the baby, showers and all with that.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, that is so important because it is it's a
focus on what all do I need? How do I
make sure the house is prepared? It's the baby room ready?
Is do we have everything the baby needs? And those
conversations there doesn't feel like there's a lot of space
for it in all of the noise and not intentionally,
but just there's so much else happening when you do
(36:28):
have new parents who are coming in or maybe people
who are thinking about having kids or anything along those lines.
What are those conversations that you just mentioned a few there,
and I just want to make sure how all of
them because this might be the first time they're even
hearing that they should be talking about these things.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, I think feeling feeling like I really trust my partner?
Do we have any trust issues that we need to
work on? Talk through and just saying, hey, do you
trust me? What about this relationship? Could I be doing better?
Because literally, like my life is now dependent upon my partner.
(37:04):
So the dad sometimes you can change the diapers or
you're keeping your family alive and dad partner whoever, again,
if we're lucky enough to have that person is like
eyes on the big picture now and is baby okay? Yes,
but like mom's pretty attuned to that. Is mom okay?
And what does that look like? And then is the
(37:25):
household okay? And talking through I want you to be
able to tell me when you're feeling anything that's wrong
or there's a big challenge, like I want to be
the first to know. I want to hear what do
you need, Like you can ask me for anything, like
just really building and making a solid foundation of like trust,
(37:48):
because it really it can be life and death when
we talk about like new baby, new mom. There are
risks that go along with this, and we want to
make sure that everybody's safe and healthy, and that involves
level of trust between caregivers. So really working on your
relationship if there's any sort of stress around that, And
of course those of us who have been married, like
(38:10):
leading up to the wedding, it can get a little
stressful sometimes with our future spouses, and like having a baby,
sometimes leading up to that can get a little stressful.
And I see it happening postpart him as well. But
the couples that I know are going to be okay
are the ones that I know because they've told me
about like how wonderful this person is for them, and
(38:31):
they know that and they say it, and they they
can be vulnerable with that person. They can share their deepest,
darkest fears with that person and trust that they're going
to be able to receive that and help in whatever
way that they can. So that's critical and then the
household management. One of the best things that my now
(38:53):
ex husband did when we were expecting the baby was
he got very serious and he came in one day.
I was having a ccon and it was planned. We
knew like tomorrow we're having a baby or something, and anyway,
he came in. He's very serious and he has like
a pad of paper and a pencil and he's like,
I need you to tell me everything that you do
(39:13):
in this house. And I was like, ah, and I'm
telling you. Like he realized I do a lot of
things that he doesn't even know what they are, and
he realizes that's all going to change, and I'm not
doing crab for at least a couple of weeks now,
and he's going to have to do it. So that
was amazing. So I share that story with new couples
(39:33):
and say, have that conversation, what are each of you
doing in this household and know that Mom's not going
to be doing a lot of that at least for
a minute, please.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
No, really, at least for several weeks. Actually, yeah, that's
those are such important questions. And once again, like you
speak from that counseling perspective, I'm sure too. Of just
we do see a lot of resentment that comes after
people have a baby because life does change, and it's
to be dramatic. It's supposed to hit you with a
reality that this is going to be different. It's gonna
(40:05):
be awesome, and there's gonna be exciting moments, but there's
also gonna be a lot of changes, and are you
prepared for that? Are what is your life? It's no
different than when you're about to get married. It's like,
are you sure you want to be with that guy
for the rest of your life?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Like?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Have we gone through the whole questions? And have you
answered all of them? How do you feel? There's a
cool trend that's been happening online that I've been seeing
lately of people saying it's important who you marry, and
they're showing these really hard moments in their life. And
I wish I could stress that so much more because
it's all I see, right, And I've seen so many
(40:39):
different perspectives of this, and I've lived in so many
different partner situations, and the one thing I always come
back to is are you gonna be able to get
me through the toughest moment of my life. Are you
gonna be able to get through loss? Are you gonna
be able to help me get through? If I do
decide to have a child and push it out of
my body? What are you gonna do? What's that going
(40:59):
to look like? And I wish more people had that
conversation with themselves before marriage, before having kids, all of it.
I think that's such an important topic.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It really is. And I just saw something funny and
it was like, ladies, you're gonna meet a man when
you're twenty three years old, and you're gonna know that
he's the one. It's very important that you don't marry.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
And I was like, oh day, okay, Like I feel
called out a little bit, but all right, it's so true.
Though sometimes it feels that way and it's just not it.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
And also we do the best we can with where
we're at hindsight is twenty twenty. Often within the situation,
it does feel like this is the person, this is
the one that can do all the things. And then
when push comes to shop, but I didn't know that
because we didn't we never had a baby together, so
a lot of these things are kind of first and
I don't even know how I'm gonna be so it
(41:53):
gets it can be like it's not a perfect equation
where if we talk about it in advance and everything's
going to be great and there's not going to be
any problems. No, there's definitely that's not how this works.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
No, you could have all the conversations you want, you
can still not be prepared for certain things. That's life.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
And I like to really stress that because the pressure
to be perfect and having a baby, the pressure to
be perfect parents is bigger than ever, and now social media,
like the whole world has their opinion on what that
looks like and how to be the best parent. You're
going to mess up one hundred percent. You are not
going to be a perfect parent. But that's okay as
(42:34):
long as you're able to remain focused on what does
my baby need right now? And I'm trying my best
to answer that need. That's a great parent, not somebody
who bought the right things or showed the right video
or these kinds of trendy social media things. But you
have to allow for the flexibility. And I said this
(42:56):
before in my videos, take that word failure and take
it out of your vocabulary when it comes to being
a new parent. When it comes to breastfeeding, get rid
of that word and replace it with another F word,
not the one you're thinking of. Replace it with another
F word. Flexible. I didn't fail at anything. I was
flexible in meeting the ever changing needs of a little
(43:18):
baby mammal. And that's where we need. The land is
just saying like I'm showing up and doing my best,
but I'm going to get it wrong, and this baby's
gonna tell me. They're going to tell you got it wrong,
and you get to try again until you get it right.
And if you can't get it right, you pick up
the phone and you call somebody, help, come help me.
I don't know how to take care of this baby.
(43:39):
But even that asking for help, that's where again we've
lost that community, that village. None of that would even
have happened if we were still living with each other
in these close knit situations. So you will mess up.
Your relationship is going to experience friction because you're becoming
new people and you've never met that person before, or
(44:01):
you've never met the baby before. This was a new dynamic,
it's a new family unit. Like, there will be friction,
there will be stress. How do you work through that
with each other? How is that con historically? What do
we need to talk about in terms of how to
best get through it when it comes up after the
baby arrives. These kinds of things I think are critical.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Oh yeah, and wow, having those conversations is so important.
Even the idea that you can have those conversations shows
that you're in a good place to be able to
approach this type of situation. It's the ones where you
may not be able to even have a conversation that
I would be a little concerned about. But to your point, Yeah,
nothing's perfect. Everything is going to come with its challenges,
and I think that's what's so cool about having you
(44:42):
on to share those experiences to hopefully the whole purpose
is always of this podcast is to make people feel
less alone. And the one area that I don't have
a lot of experience with because I'm not a mom
or a parent in any way, that is motherhood is
such a journey and parenthood is, and it's such an
individualized one that there's just not a one size fits all,
(45:07):
But there is information you can consume to help you.
And that's what I think is really cool.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
What you're doing thank you so much. Yeah, everything you
said is absolutely true, and we have moved out of
the literal village situation, but we still can find it
if we look forward. It is out there. There are
places to call if you I don't have anybody else
to call, Yes, you do. There's phone numbers you can
call that will pick up at three thirty am and
(45:32):
help you with whatever you've got going on. And knowing that,
and there are social media accounts like mine, I hope
to think that are really trying to help you get
through at support and I do. I get a lot
of requests in dms. I can't just do that with
my life. I don't have time or else. I would.
If I were independently wealthy, y'all, I would be answering
every single one of the dms about I need help.
(45:53):
I need help. But I do try once in a
while to do that. But no that in this In
the United States, if you have health insurance ones, you
receive free elactation benefits. So I want everybody to hear
that and know that you pay nothing as long as
the lactationan zone is in network with your insurance. Take
advantage that nothing is free. You're paying for it somewhere
along the line. But when it comes to I show
(46:14):
up at your house, you don't have to give me anything,
like I'm getting paid and I'm helping you. And a
lot of times you can even have like up to
six visits with a lactation insult and at no extra cost.
So that's really important to remember if you're struggling with breastfeeding, pumping,
bottle feeding.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
That's why I love that. That's really good to know.
I don't think a lot of people know that and
are aware of it. Resources are everything, so we are
in a different time, but at least hopefully the resources
are so infinite that you can find what you're looking
for and hopefully for something like that, Hey, it's girl math,
it's basically free, so just do it.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yes, I do like to end this podcast on it's
either a piece of advice or motivation, or maybe it's
something that we didn't talk about that you'd really like
to talk about. I give the floor over to you
and you end us on something. So this is me
transferring power right now.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Wow, I wasn't ready for this. There's so many little things, but.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
And you can hit a bunch too. If You're like,
there's no rules to this. I just like to end
on something that you're really passionate about or want to share.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Everybody out there who's having a baby, going to have
planning to have a baby, you this is gonna be
a weird one.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
You are a mammal and that means that by definition,
you do have some behaviors and instincts. You make milk.
Nobody has to breastfeed. I think that's fine, but you're
gonna make milk no matter what because your mammal body
is doing a lot of things growing a baby, creed
milk for the baby, and maternal instincts are real in
every mammal end in you. It is inside of you.
(47:47):
So sitting with yourself and really I think getting to
that truth. Yeah, you can watch social media, watch videots,
but also just sit quietly and just think about yourself
as a mother. Who am I as a mother? Does
that look like? How have I mothered other people in
my life? How do I nurture those around me? What
do I feel when I think about having this baby.
(48:09):
That's a great way to start getting in touch with
who you are as a mother, because it is it's
built into your DNA. You can't escape it. We feel
very removed from it. But just sitting quietly, even just
once before you have the baby a couple of times
would be great. I think going to groups where women
are talking about these things could be super helpful. But
(48:30):
you can do this. And the last thing I'll just
say is that your best is good enough. You are
the perfect mother for your baby. They think you're literally
a goddess. That's what they think. You're judging yourself. Stop
doing that. It's your baby fed. You did a great job,
is your baby loved cared for? You're doing You're rocking it.
(48:53):
It doesn't look the way that you want it. That's okay.
That's another problem though, that has nothing to do with
your worth as a mother. Get some help, Get help
before you give up. Get help if you need help.
But you're doing a great job taking care of this baby,
just as you are.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
And we wouldn't be here sitting here having this conversation
if people like you didn't exist. So Michelle, thank you
for everything that you're doing and the information you're sharing.
Do you want to shout out your Instagram page so
they can follow you? If you have that content?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
There's one minute milk bites. Please come follow me, drop
me a message, say you saw me on Warren's podcast.
I'd love to chat and thank you for listening and
seeing what I have to do, what I'm doing with
my life. I love it. It makes me feel very
(49:40):
validated and motivated to continue. So thanks for having me
on and letting me spread the word too as many
people as want to listen to it.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Oh yeah, you are doing amazing things. Like I said,
I found you from my sister who kept sending me things.
I was like, I don't even have a baby, but
I will keep taking this from you. And I thought
you were going to be such a great guest. You are,
so thank you for spreading information. Keep going and I'll
make sure to link her profile in the show notes
too so you guys can find it easily. But again,
thanks Michelle, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Thanks Marian.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
That wraps up our new Parent episode. Hopefully you all
got some wisdom or a moment of relatability these last
two weeks. The next time I talk to you, we
will be in the new year, starting our next era.
I'll be sharing an episode with my grandma Bernie, who
is an incredible woman and firecracker with lots of stories
to share. I'll post things on my socials in case
you want to stay in the loop at take this
personally happy almost New Year friends, Stay safe this week.
(50:32):
I'm so happy that you're here.
Hosts And Creators
Bobby Bones
Amy Brown
Lunchbox
Eddie Garcia
Morgan Huelsman
Raymundo
Mike D
Abby Anderson
Scuba Steve
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