July 1, 2025 • 50 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci give tribute to the passing of Dave Parker, who was to be inducted into the Hall of Fame in a month. Joe discusses his relationship with Parker that spanned over several decades. Tom also notes the passing of 'Bad Company' guitarist Mick Ralphs, who coincidentally will be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame later this year. Plus, is there a two man race for AL MVP between Aaron Judge and Cal Raleigh?
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey Darren, welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Back to the latest episode of the Book of Joe
Podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, Joe, I really want.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
To get your take on early and I mean early
discussion about the al Most Valuable Player race. But before
we do that, we have to start with some sad news,
the passing of Dave Parker, just a month away from
his induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
He waited so long for that moment.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Joe, I know you have a personal history with the
Cobra Dave Parker. First of all, just give me your
thoughts when you heard the news about his passing.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I mean, really very sad. I didn't I knew he
had been at Parkinson's. I didn't know was this far along.
I didn't know that he was in this kind of danger.
And so my buddy of mine, I said, Wow, I mean,
I was.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Just really overtaken with sadness. This guy.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
He was a teammate of mine as a coach with
the Angels late nineties with Terry Collins' staff, him and
Boa Rodney and others there. Listen, he he this guy
to me for the first time. I mean, I felt
when I was on the field with him, he showed
me what it was like to be in a major
(01:29):
league field and feel as though you're on an American
Legion field.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
He just he had his presence about him.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Could not be more comfortable in his own skin, could
not be more comfortable in a major league uniform or on.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
A major league field. I really that's what I gleaned
from him.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And on top of that, he always was there, Like
if anybody like, I'm not that people are getting on me,
but if anybody was like sending the non toward toward me,
he was. He was my defender man. He was just
so he was always there. He was always there. One
of the sharpest witted people I've been around. Fine, God
was he funny. He made up some stuff on the
(02:06):
spot that I thought was spectacular. I just felt closeness
to him, probably more than he felt toward me. But
I just I recognized everything about him. So I was
really upset about it, really upset into his family. If
anybody's listening, I just want to extend my condolences. I'm
going to try to get in touch somehow. But he
had that as among all the different coaches coming up
(02:29):
as a major league coach and and then manager, eventually
he had as much influence on me as anybody.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, six foot five, two hundred and thirty pounds, that
was probably in his prime at two hundred and thirty pounds.
That's a good guy to have your back, Joe. And
I think I love the way you put that as well,
that you know, he made everybody feel like he was
your best friend, right, I mean, Dave Parker in his prime,
I think he played the game of baseball as well
(02:57):
as anybody on the field through those years, just did
everything at an elite level. But to think of him, Joe,
not just as a coach, but later in his career,
where every team wanted Dave Parker on their team because
he was such a great teammate and his influence you know,
with other players is just remarkable. I know that Eric Davis,
(03:18):
the former Cincinnati read great, said he probably had more
impact on young players than any player I've ever been around.
I mean, what a testament. And you mentioned the Parkinson's disease.
You know, Dave Parker played major league baseball for nineteen years,
really long career. He battled Parkinson's almost as long fifteen years.
He passed away at the age of seventy four after
(03:39):
a long fight with that dreadful disease. But yeah, when
I think of Dave Parker, all round player, definition of
an all round player. But again, Joe, I think his
influence and I'm glad you worked on a staff with him.
Can only I can only imagine you know, he was
a great coach to have around because I knew as
a player he did influence players around him.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I worked with the Hall of Fame staff, I had Boa,
I had David and Rodney Krue on the same staff.
How about how about that and George Hendrick I mean cousin,
and I call it George cause him and David very
similar in a lot of ways. Before I got my
first manager's job, I try to in my interviews, I
(04:21):
would always talk about I want to have at least
one clubhouse coach too, the coach on your staff that
identifies with everybody, everybody the superstar player and pitcher to
the last guy in the bullpen and your last player
on the bench. Somebody that these guys gravitate toward when
things aren't going well, and you just and you know
(04:42):
that whomever, either park Way or or George would because
with gimm straight shooting advice and that's and so that's
what George represented. And then as I get there and
then eventually thought about it, David was.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
The same way. I mean, these guys, their.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Influence, like you said, even as a teammate, was legendary
within the clubhouse everybody I remember any sound as Andy
Sonnenstein sitting with Cuz all the time, and with David,
Like I said, I would sit with David just to
listen to what he had to say.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
So he's not only.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Very impactful on young players, he's very impactful on young
coaches too. This is a tough one. This was a
very tough one, Joe.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
When you talked about having a clubhouse coach, so to speak,
I had a smile on my face because he brought
me back to when I covered the Yankees and Billy
Martin was the manager and he hired Willy Horton, and
he called Willy Horton his tranquility coach.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I love that title.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Just you know, a guy who's been in the fox hole,
played the game at a high level and just a connector,
right connects with everybody, and you know, I look around
the game now maybe it's starting to come back, Joe.
You know that star Major League player who comes back
to the game as a coach and you know, maybe
he doesn't have all the skills on the iPad right
(05:58):
at some of.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
The clubs are looking for.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
But guys like Edgar Martinez now back in the game
as hitting coach, doing great job with the Mariners, Kevin Sitzer,
Eric Chavez with the Mets. You know, I never want
to rule anything or anybody out, Joe, Like you shouldn't
have hard and fast rules or anything for the most part,
but I do like having a balance on a coaching staff.
Talk to me about the importance of having a Dave
(06:22):
Parker on your staff who did play the game and
is a connector of people as well as let's face
he knew hitting really well as well.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, these guys aren't going to go have a conversation
with a computer after when they're struggling.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
They might be able to now with AI and the
way i AI.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Is being formulated, but you need an actual human being,
and especially one that's been through these kind of things.
And on top of that that that gregarious personality that
you gravitate towards. You just do, you just do. And
it's not like you're just going to give you a
warm fuzzy all the time. I don't want a warm fuzzy.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I want the truth. What are you seeing right now?
Talk to me?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And and you know, one of my favorites is that
honesty without compassion equals cruelty. So I think these guys,
like whether it's George or David whomever, are able to
read whomever they're speaking with to the point, Yeah, I'm
gonna be honest with them, but how honest can I
be with them? And they're able to almost like a psychologist,
able to morph into the conversation the point they want
to get to put out there. So like, all these
(07:20):
guys are so valuable, and that's you're right. We've talked
to Word about the word balance all the time. Yes,
in my mind's I I would love a staff of
really you know, computerized people that are able to accumulate
information as much as they possibly can and put it
in a manner that that it's readable to all of us.
(07:40):
And also, like I said, these guys should be at
the beck and call of these former Major league coaches
that are part of the staff, and then they're they're
they work in unison together. These the computer guys upstairs
put the stuff together, come on downstairs, give it to David,
give it to whomever. And of course, if the nuance
is a little bit too intricate to explain, would not
(08:01):
mind having them in on meetings. But overall, I think
it's overplayed how important this stuff is when the game begins.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I really do.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I've been there, I know that, and I've listen. I've
been dripping with analytical information as much as anybody can
throw at me for years. But when the game begins,
here's that You're on the bench and things stink and
things are going sideways. I want I want Parkway to
mosey up to somebody, or Chili Davids to mosey up
to somebody, or George Henrick to mosey up to somebody,
(08:30):
Marcel Latchman and sit down next to this picture struggling,
this player struggling, and give them a thought. It's always
about a thought. It's not about a print out. It's
about a thought. Whatever that thought is can change your
attitude and can could clarify things for you in a moment,
and a lot of it has to do with experience also,
and I think this is being totally overlooked today and
(08:53):
not even being considered. Yeah, I want the best analytical
staff that money combined. I've even said I'd love to
be the guy that interviews these guys before even bring
him into the clubhouse. But on top of that, I
want the best coaching staff we could possibly have based
on communication, ability, experience, toughness, and then you do want
(09:15):
the warm, fuzzy and then you do you like the
good cop badcop kind of a situation too.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
There's so many different things you want in a major.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
League clubhouse that I think now is not sought after
as it had been in the past. Maybe we weren't
so sophisticated regarding how we chose that in the past.
This clubhouse coach the guy that could really be impactful
when things aren't going well.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But believe me, I have been on top.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Of that for years because I could I recognize it,
I could see what the difference it makes. So it's
in a perfect world. It's a very complex situation putting
together your coaching staff, and for me, as a major
league manager, would love to be able to do that
almost unilaterally. I mean, of course he wanted to discuss
with everybody else. But I think too much today the
(09:59):
coaching staff is controlled the acquisition or the hiring of
that is, control by the front office, way more like
ninety ninety five percent to the ten to five percent
that the actual manager gets.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Just a couple of notes on the Cobra. David Geen Parker.
He was born in Mississippi, one of six children. The
family moved to Cincinnati when he's a child, so that's
where he grew up.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Blue collar family.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
His dad worked for a company in Cincinnati that manufactured valves.
He was drafted as a catcher, and obviously he switched
very early to the outfield. He's one of only five
players when he retired with at least five hundred doubles,
three hundred homers, one hundred and fifty steals, and twenty
seven hundred hits. Probably the height I think Joe of
(10:47):
his prime was nineteen seventy nine World Championship Pirates team,
and if you remember that All Star Game of the Kingdom,
he threw out two runners. I mean, you still see
that throw in your mind's eye, right It says six
foot five guy with tremendous power, could win batting titles
and throwing the guy out at third base at home
with just an amazing throw. He always liked to say,
(11:08):
when the leaves turned rown, I'll be wearing the crown
when it came to those batting races, just amazing away
with words, but away with the bat to be hitting
the winning batting titles. For a guy six five, two
thirty with tremendous power, just an amazing player to watch.
There were few people on the field, as you know
Joe back then, who had that kind of size. So
(11:30):
when you watched Dave Parker play, the way he ran,
the way he overpowered the baseball, I mean he was
back in the day kind of a physical freak in
what he could do on a baseball field. And of
course in the mid eighties, September of eighty five, he
went through those Pittsburgh drug trials at the center of
you know, the front page of newspapers, not just a
baseball story.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It was huge back then.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
He did testify in the course of those trials that
he did arrange for cocaine transactions with a Pittsburgh man
and some of his teammates, along with some other players
of the Astros the Dodgers. He said he used cocaine
from seventy sive to eighty two, and he said he
stopped using it because he said, I felt my game
was slipping, and I feel like that did play a
part of it. And the way he put that behind him,
(12:14):
because that was an ugly episode, the way it was covered,
and you know, the whole country was going through it
back then.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The drug issue. He wore that a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Joe in terms of especially in his hometown there or
playing hometown at Pittsburgh, wasn't always well received.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Famously.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It was you know, a battery at nine volt battery
was thrown at him in right field just barely missed
his head. At one time, he was the highest paid
player in the game, and people really held it against
him back then. I think they did that more then
when it came to salaries than they do even now.
So he went through a lot, but again, a nineteen
nineteen year major league career, won a couple of World Series.
(12:53):
Just a big, big life of Dave Parker, just a
big personality.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, like all of us, we all screw up at
some point the fact that he owned up to it
and moved it forward like he did. Part of the
culture that was part of the way back in that
that that stretch of our history. Actually it's probably even
worse today with different drugs being utilized. So again that's
just chalk it up, and that's just the part of youth.
And he made a mistake and he moved on from there.
(13:18):
And I'm here to tell you when you were around him,
like we were just've already gone over this, but it
was just there was something powerful about him, something different.
Had these big old, big old eyes. Man look you
right right into the eye, and to do the best
laugh and the sharpest wit. And if you're on a
bus after an Angel's win with Larry Boa sitting on
(13:41):
one seat in the back, David Parker somewhere in the
middle to the front, and then Mick bill Meyer, one
of the most underrated funny coaches in the history of
Major League Baseball, the three of them exchanging barbs as
you walked on the bus did ab Tania.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
It was. It was as funny as anything I've ever
been around.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
And I love these guys for that. I just met.
I just was with Boa a couple of days ago
up at a golf turn. I met up in Carbondale
hel Few Country Club and actually we brought up Parker's
name and we talked about David a little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I didn't know this was imminent. We never do, right.
And then mcbill meyer is.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Really he was a Charlie Manuel's bench coach in the
World Series in two thousand and eight when they beat us.
But anyway, this group of guys simultaneously being on the
same staff, I was very, very fortunate to be part
of that.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It's gonna be bittersweet next month than Cooper's doown Joe.
It's Dave Parker obviously being inducted posthumously.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
As well as Dick Allen as well.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Oh, talk about two great sluggers in this game who
waited a long time to get that or at least
the families to get that phone call that you know,
you're being inducted into the Hall of Fame. And we won't,
unfortunately have either one to step through that podium. But
really it'll be a special special day for the families
of Dick Allen and Dave Parker.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
That's my other guy.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I mean, I I didn't know Dick is not even well.
But I had some really good conversation with him. He
was one of my favorite players in the sixties. Again,
you talk about once you look at his whole body
of work and what he did and how great he
actually was. I was so pleased when he was got
when he got into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
And of course David.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
But these two guys, there were two of my favorite
well I can't say I mean Parker was a favorite player,
but more a favorite coach and a friend. But Dicky
On Richie Allen, my god, he got to watch that stuff.
You talk about a combination of speed and power, I
mean like enormous power and hit the ball so hard
to the opposite field. He's the guy he used the
forty ounced bat. I mean Parkway used a really heavy
(15:45):
bat too.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
David.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I used to have a drill with the heavy bat
that I used in instructional leagues and at a outfield.
My name of Cliff Garrett, young guy from Chicago, really
good speed, and I want him to make more contact
news his hands better. So I asked David for one
of his bats, and he gave it to me, and
it was like probably know, thirty six thirty eight ounces
was big, big old aroondack and Cliffy used that the
(16:08):
whole camp and ended up I think hit three hundred
somewhere in the minor leagues, I believe where at least
that was an instruction league. But it really helped accelerate
Cliff's ability to learn how to hit a little bit.
But that was Parkway gave us one of his bats,
and he was a big believer in that too. So
these are two gigantic former major league players that used
gigantic bats man.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
It's hard even to pick him up.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I can't believe they able to catch up the Major
League basketball is using these bats well.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Dave Parker will be missed by so many people. Our thoughts,
our condolences go out to the Parker family. And you know,
we also remember too that you know, Dave did battle
Parkinson's very publicly as well, so he brought a lot
of attention to the disease and what we can do
to try to.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You know, if not cure.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
It advanced the medicine and the research into that terrible disease.
So just a proud, proud man who just lived a
very full life but still gone too soon.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
We will miss him dearly.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
This is a somewhat related topic. We'll get into this
after this break here. We lost another long time one
of the best in his field, who is going into
the Hall of Fame in a matter of months, who
just died last week as well.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
This one's from the music industry as well.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I just wanted to bring this one up and we
will do that right after this. Welcome back to the
Book of Joe podcast that Joe we talked about. Dave
Parker passed away just a month before being inducted into
(17:50):
the Baseball Hall of Fame. I'm not sure if you
saw this that a member of guitarist and songwriter with
the Bad Bad Company, Mick Ralphs, passed away. Now they're
being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
in November, and he just passed away. Now, like Dave Parker,
he had been ill for a long time. He had
suffered a stroke years ago and really never recovered. But
(18:16):
that's one of my favorite bands from that era, Joe.
Remember the supergroups that term came out and the supergroups,
and Bad Company is one of those.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
You gotta love it.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Their first album was named Bad Company. The band's name
is Bad Company. The hit single was bad company, but
you'll like this. This is what Mick Ralph said about
when that band got together. He said, there is nothing
preconceived about this group. Our music is straightforward, there are
(18:47):
no gimmicks. This is the way I've always wanted to
play rock. It needs to be this way.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
How about that, well you said when this group got together,
and he said that this group got together and immediately
thought of the uniqueness to their sound.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
They were their own everything.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
They were the CEO, the CFO, the COO, the GM,
the manager, their everything there.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
It was their intellectual property was there.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
It was their passion, it was it was there whatever
came from within them at that particular age. And then
I just think about the struggle getting to the point
where now it's obvious Hall of Fame band, but we
don't remember, We don't know anything about maybe you know,
being in a garage, playing in some really smelly, dirty club,
was worrying about if they're gonna get paid or not all.
That's that's what it's just the minor leagues, you know,
(19:41):
this guy started. They started out in the minor leagues.
They started out in summer ball. They started out in
Colorado or the Cape Cod League, whatever, and then finally
they become who they are, and then everybody only sees
that I hear stuff like this. And I guess I'm
saying this because I don't know that it's as prevalent today.
I mean, everything's so manufactured today, and and everything's uh,
the is controlled by so few and I don't know
(20:03):
even though if a group like that is permitted to
to like work their way up through the bitter end
in New York City all the way up to you know,
the the Emmys or the whatever, Grammys, the Music Awards.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
It's so I just love these things.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I love these things, and I guess identify with them,
and that's probably why the uniqueness about their sound and
everything about them. So as a record comes on, you
know it's bad company. And the fact that okay, I
just thought Dave Dave Parker could have been bad company.
I mean, you know, it's so it's so connected. And
these are the things that I feel very fortunate about
(20:44):
being born when I was born. The fact that how
there was so much uniqueness and individuality put into success
and it wasn't a corporate kind of a thing, and
you didn't have to like running through a chain of
a whole bunch of different people, whether they liked it
or not. You weren't worried about accept that. You were
worried about putting out your heart and soul. So tangent.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I'm on, I get it. But that's what when you
brought that up.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Immediately I wrote down got together, and then I wrote
downward to arrow and then struggle, and then then it
becomes a hall of fame. That's the stuff that I love. Uh.
And I think that's not as prevalent today as it
had been.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, And I would say, Joe the other thing along
those lines, I think not as prevalent. And you know,
a band like this reminds me of is teamwork right
and the idea of accomplishing something as a group. You know,
I don't think that discipline as is ingrained in society now.
It's more like, you know, how can I get ahead myself?
(21:45):
It's the cult of individualism? And you think about that.
You know, the supergroups, as we talked about back in
the seventies and a little bit into the eighties, mostly
in the seventies. You know, Ralphs came from Matahopel, You
remember them, right, all the young dudes, Yah, yeah, they aby.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
To help them out there.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
A couple other guys in the band came from the
band Free, remember that one.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Free was outstanding absolutely all.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Right now, And the Bassis came from King Crimson.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So you had this these really talented musicians coming together
and playing some great music h and cranking out some
great songs. And I think it was that the teamwork.
And think about you know, great bands today. If you
can think about any of those great rock bands anyway,
there's not many that succeed on a you know that
(22:36):
super group basis that, you know, getting four or five
guys together and staying together and cranking out albums.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
So it's a different time.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Not saying it's it's better or worse whatever, but it's
a different time. And like you, I'm glad I was
there around for that. The formation of those bands.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
The creativity, right, the creativity and the inspiration. They find
inspiration in so many different places, so many different ways.
They would you just write songs about our house is
a very very very fine house. Uh what's that? Graham
Nash with Joni Mitchell back in Laurel Canyon back in
the day, just they went down shopping down in some
(23:15):
local groovy little spot, and he created this song based
on that experience on that one day.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
I'm pretty sure that's accurate.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And it becomes so popular, becomes so big, But do
we permit it, do we actually try to do it?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Do we just try to?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Do we even are we even aware to look at
like what's in front of our very eyes and then
try to extrap late on it to.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
The point where it becomes art.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Of course there is, of course there's artists out there
like that, no question, but to the to the level
that we experienced, I mean, my god, every just break
down all the different bands, and let's just go the seventies,
and almost within the first five notes or six notes
of a song, they're so uniquely different that you would
know exactly who it was and and and that the
(23:54):
sound of that group was prevalent throughout all of their work.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I don't I don't see that anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I don't think it's even I don't even know if
it's encouraged or say. Everything so synthesized and everything so
part of group think anymore, that you don't get this
individuality that we experience. To me, that is so near
and dear to my heart and something that, like I said,
from from my perspective, I feel like I could identify
with And that's that's what I love about the previous
(24:23):
this And this is not ageism speaking. This is just
the pointing out a fact that this was the way
it was, and I'd love to see a return to that.
There's no reason why you can't return to more of
an individual method of doing things and not being so
corporated with everything that we do. That would be kind
of interesting. I think i'd be more interesting. And even
in baseball, the permission to be the stat of the
(24:45):
way of greatness and permitting a more should I say,
and not as a structured, analytically structured game of baseball,
I think it would make it more interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Well, Joe, I think if it's possible, it's we know
too much now, right. You think about hitting in the
way hitting is taught right, and way we can break
it down into granular details in terms of using force
plates and slow motion capture.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Whatever you can.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You can break down the swing and the mechanics of
a swing more ways than ever before. So we know
so much about it. And I think we were talking
about those groups in the seventies and going into the
Laurel Canyon and that kind of sound. Nobody thought about
what played publicly, right. They created what was interesting to them,
you know, they followed their muse And I see this
(25:36):
in journalism too now, Joe, we have all the data
where they can measure what people read, how long they
stick on a story, what they don't read, and that
drives then what is produced. So the echo what comes
back actually is now the inspiration for what is created,
rather than the purity of saying, you know, this is
(25:59):
a good story or this is how I swing the bet.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but I
think having so much information available makes the naturalness of
creativity harder to come by. And I know for a
fact in my business it drives journalism, even to the
point of what headlines they're going to put on a
story to make you click on it. All of this
is known based on research and analytics. The creativity is
(26:28):
almost gone because people follow the numbers and the algorithms,
and it's just where our society is. And I'm sure
you see that and hear that, Joe, with the way
the game is taught.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Well, it's great explanation. You put it together really really well.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hey, listen, Joe.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Back in the day, when somebody cut an album that
was a true recording, it was the record of an event,
and the event was you're getting together in a room
and you're recording this happening at that moment, laying down tracks,
laying down the vocals.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It wasn't processed the way that it is now.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I don't know how you capture the authenticity of riffing
and just creating on the fly, so to speak, when
everything is processed one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And just to go back to your previous discussion about
the hitting, I think what's being taught right now, or
what's being able to be broken down right now, is
the physical mechanics. There's no question, but the mental mechanics,
how to play the game, how to approach in that bat.
I don't know how much is being spent there, because
of course I was there and I was actually been
(27:35):
a hitting coach in my past, and even with me,
I was very very aware that I thought spring training
probably more into the physical mechanics. First month or two
maybe still physical. Lif would say, like I mean even
talk about like seventy five percent of camp might be
physical mechanics. Then you knock it down to fifty as
the season begins, and by the end of the season
(27:55):
it should be just the opposite.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
It should be like seventy.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Five percent mental mechanics and maybe only twenty twenty five
percent physical. You just wanted to get away from that
because I really think the true genius and that we're
talking about genius Hall of Famers, whether it's music or
we're talking athletically baseball, their success was controlled by their
mind and what they thought and how they processed the day,
(28:17):
and their ability to put failure behind them behind themselves
very quickly. And further, we're not even worry about failure.
You know, they were out there, like we were said,
creat creating. They're out there creating, bringing their passion to life,
bringing their their years again of laying a bed at
night or maybe reaching over to grab a notepad and
I don't want to forget what I just thought and
writing it down by at your bedside table in order
(28:38):
to remember these wonderful thoughts that we had all day
that we knew there was there was there was something
relevant there and something that I could utilize there, and
something that really got to got to write it down
now because if I don't ever forget it, I'm just
going to go away. And always had those issues. So, uh,
mental mechanics, man, everybody, everybody wants.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
To go physical with this stuff. And it's it's great.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Like you know, I'm trying to play golf better, and
I've spent a lot of time on the physical. But
I tell you, my best stays when I go out there,
when I just play the course and I tried to
really get down to the mental side of what I'm
trying to do, and it's.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
All you get trapped. It's always you've always wanted the trap.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
If you got a bad shot, I got to go
back to the physical mechanics. And what happened right there? No, no, no,
just drop it. You're fine, Just go back and pick
out your target whatever. So I still believe that true
success is created and handled by the mind, and you
really have to nurture that and understand that. And at
some point you got to put the wrench down, mister
good wrench, put it down and just go out to let.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
The car drive itself.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Joe, Hey, I brought up the idea of the al
MVP race. We promised you a discussion about that. We
we're going to do that right after this. Who do
you have, Aaron Judge or cal Raley? We backed the
Book of Joe right after this. Welcome back to the
(30:00):
Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Hey, Joe.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
The other day I was doing for FS one a
Mariners Rangers game, and I'm watching cal Raley, and I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Listen, you're a former catcher.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
I don't have to convince you of this, but what
catchers go through is just amazing, right, And for cal
Raley to be hitting thirty two home runs through the
first eighty one games of the season.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
It's just crazy. He catches a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
It's not like he dhs most and then once in
a while catches and he's back there a lot and
he's calling pitches. He got hit with a foul ball
right where the chest protector stopped, right on his ribcage.
You know, one thing I caught my eye too was
one inning he let off. And you know, as a catcher, Joe,
when you lead off, you got to take the gear
(30:43):
off really quickly, and especially now with the pitch timer,
you got to run out there really quickly take your bat.
He got a walk and he was on base the
entire half inning in which there was a pitching change.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
By the way, so now.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
He's got to run back to the dugout, put the
gear back on, was able to get back to catch
one warm up pitch from his Mariners pitcher, And you
just think about how many times this goes on to
the course of a day. He threw out a runner, stealing,
I mean, taking foul balls, game planning, calling pitches, and oh,
by the way, he's just been just a monster at
the dish this year. He's doing things that are unprecedented
(31:16):
for catchers, at least halfway through the season offensively.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I was just blown away.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
By sort of the intricacies of what we you know,
almost accept and don't even notice from catchers and what
they go through, and you multiply that by one hundred
and thirty games. Whatever it is that being said, I
just can't bring myself to say he's the MVP.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Great? How great is everything?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I mean, who do you got, Judge or cal Raley?
Because the defensive quotion for Raleigh is really where the
argument at least becomes close.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Well, how about a great description obviously, and let me
just that before even go to that point. When you
watch rally hit. What's is there one thing that stands
out in your mind? Because when he first came up,
I think we might have been playing them, and I'm
turning to maunt Wise and I said, damn on a
foul ball straight back. I just said that, So I
(32:09):
know what I'm thinking because I remember it saying it immediately.
Is the one thing that stands out about is swing?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
To you? When you watch him swing the bat?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, I know this here he got closer to the plate,
so he's like Jose Riverez. He's turning that Rizzo turning
that outside pitch middle. But to me, it's his extension
poleside in the air, the way he extends through the ball.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
What do you got bat speed? Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I could not believe. And I think it was right handed.
When I first saw him, WHOA. I looked at Maddie
and I said, damn, I mean, who is this guy? Said,
We're gonna have to face him for so many swear
that's like my first impression when I saw this first swing.
That's exactly what I said to Maddie. Maddie was the
pitching coach. We're gonna have to watch this guy for
you know, many years to come.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
So that was it. I mean, then he went through some.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Struggles like a lot of young guys do, but with
all this power just I mean, I don't even know
if they measured how they measured bass speed with him
or not.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
If they have, I'm sure they have, but it's really extraordinary.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
And I think that's just like a golf swing, you know,
bat speed, hitting the ball harder farther, that they really
go hand in hand, and that the big thing is
to not miss it. And I miss your pitch and
that fell it off and again to demonstrate I mean
all the physical activity with his catching and still being
able to get up there strong enough, mentally alert enough
(33:23):
to not foul that pitch off and hit it hard
and keep it ferries, all those things going on, okay
at the halfway point, I mean, honestly, I don't know
that you could determine at the halfway point. I think
this has to play itself all the way out, and
if the maritor has reached the playoffs, I mean almost,
and if he continues his pace, it's hard to keep
it away from him. I mean, Judge has the innate
(33:45):
advantage of playing in New York city. There's no question
Seattle is one of the for all the intent purposes,
they could be playing in Alaska's that far west, So
I mean it's that's he's got that working against them.
Let's say this, if Judge was in Seattle and Rawley
was playing for the Yankees, there'd be no question who
would be the MVP. So there's there's that to be
considered too, So I would just play this one out
(34:08):
a little bit longer. Is what he's doing. Damn, that's
not easy to do. To play as often as he
does as well as he does be a forced on
defense like he is hit from both sides of the plate. Wow,
it's it's pretty non impressive.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Come on, Joe, You're not allowed in today's world to
let things play out.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Okay, I'm going to cal raly you decision now. Halfway
through the season.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Catcher, I'm going to Catcher.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
If if the Mariners make the playoffs, it will be
because cal Rawly also has a great second half as well, Right, Sure,
I think if he falls apart in the second half,
they probably will will not make the playoffs. So he's
so important to that team in so many ways. He's
one of the most indispensable players I think to a
team in all of Major League Baseball. That being said,
(34:54):
I've got to go with Aaron Judge. I mean, it's
you look at the hitting numbers and it's not even close.
It really isn't. I mean, Judge leads in basically every
single category. All this slash category is betting average, on
base percentage, slugging. He right now has an OPS plus,
which takes into account, you know, the ballpark factors, league factors,
(35:16):
the highest of a right handed hitter in baseball history.
I mean he leads in total bases war I mean hits.
He leads a league in hits. I mean, it's just amazing.
He's hitting three fifty six and slugging seven twenty two.
Raley is hitting two seventy five and slugging six forty three.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I get the argument, and.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I want to say it's cal Raley because it's just extraordinary.
I mean, this is I'm not sure Johnny Bench had
a year like this, right, But I just can't get
there because the gap and production Judge and cal Raley
is it's just right now, it's too big of a
gap for me.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Catch your bias on my part. That's what I think
it is allowed that Yeah, I mean I listen, thank
you you described it. Man.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
You saw these guys going in and out of the shower.
They're black and blue all over the place. I mean,
my from foul tips. Foul tips would create black and
blue all over your body. Like you get that foul
tip that hits your thighs sometimes or inner thigh got
into your cup, but just inner thigh. You walking around
your whole legs black and blue, and you're sore. You're
always sore because that stuff that doesn't go away. And
(36:20):
then it just the ball off the ribs. And then
the other foul tip that started to protect is when
it hit your throwing shoulder.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Oh my god, but you still gotta throw.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
So the wear and tear with these guys put up with,
and especially the every day eddie like him, if he's
he's catching that often, man, and having that kind of impact,
that's dang.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
That is so difficult. It is so so difficult.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Back in the day we had, you know, you talk
about Johnny Bench, you could talk about Jerry Grody who
was my absolute favorite. Uh, Randy Huntley who I got
to be friends with with the Cubbies. Randy caught hundred
sixty two games one year. I'm pretty sure this isn't
that right. One sixty two or one sixty one something.
He used to play catch double headers. The roach should
make up catch double headers in the summer in Chicago.
(37:07):
He said he'd be popping up all August and September.
All he could do is pop a ball up, but
he'll still be catching. It's it's just a really really
hard position to play, and to play and still be
able to produce actively off. Fancy you s got a
six something slugy percentage six thirty five forty three.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Hey, here's the other thing, Joe, And I'm sure you
really appreciate this. And I noticed this Saturday, and I've
seen it other times as well. When cal Rawley goes
out to the mound, right, the pitching coach does not
instinctively run out of the dugout to join the discussion.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I see that happen so many times.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
You know, right, you have a limited number of mound
visits five, So when a catcher walks out, maybe he's
just slowing the game down. Maybe it's something you talk
about the next hit or whatever. It is a lot
of times the pitching coach will say, well, we got
to go out there because we have a limited number
of visits. Cal Rawley, to me, makes more unescorted visits
to the mound than any catch in baseball. And I
(38:05):
love to see that, and so one of the things
I look for with young catchers as well, especially if
you're catching a veteran pitcher. I love to see a
young catcher say I'm gonna go out there and talk
to this guy. Don't wait for a signal from the dugout,
don't wait for the pitching coach to to come out
with you, or don't wait for the veteran pitcher to
call you out there. I love catchers who take control
(38:25):
of the game in that way, and cal Rawley does.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
That's a lot of self confidence, that's a lot of
preparation on his part. That is really a great bedside manner.
I don't know him, but I would imagine, have you
spoken with him, imagine his personality is kind of like,
is he ingratiating Gregary's kind of a guy.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
He is. He's a very endearing kind of guy. I mean,
total total gamer.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, but yeah, he's an endearing player.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I would say that anybody who's nicknamed the big Dumper
and embraces It tells you what kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
I love that man. That is so good. There's so
so many things to like about him. And then the pictures,
I mean the pictures, know, the pictures.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Know, I mean if these pitch if he wasn't all
of that, At some point some of these more veteran
guys on that team would say to the manager or
the pitch goes, listen, man, next time he comes walking up,
please come out with him, because I don't want to
hear what he has to say. It is he's he's vacuous.
He has nothing to say to me, so I think
they would have heard that by now.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
I love it. I love that he's able to do
all that.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It indicates if the leadership component of what he does
on that team. And again we're talking about this and
I know we got the captain in New York. They
probably could throw a sea on Rawley if they wanted to.
For cal right, So he's he's all of that. And
I saw it as a young catcher. I just watched
the highlights now, but that is really impressive stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
And one quick note on Aaron Judge.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
You know he's he had a tough beginning to this month, right,
he gets sometimes in that mode where he's chasing that
down on a way pitch.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
He actually struck.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Out more in June, Joe than any month since his
rookie season. But what I noticed in the last two weeks,
and it started with that Angel series in New York,
and he does this from time to time, he closed
up his stance. You know, he used to hit with
for the most part, with an open stance, and I
think when he has trouble, especially at swing decisions, generally,
(40:19):
it is because he's chasing pitches he shouldn't be. He
just closed up his stands as a more neutral setup
with his feet, and he's got off. In the last
couple of weeks, he's totally back. What's interesting to me too, Joe,
is I can't believe this. He's seeing more pitches in
the strike zone than ever before in his career. I
don't get it. And by the way, he's also more aggressive.
(40:40):
He's swinging at more pitches in the zone than ever before.
He's swinging at more first pitches than ever before. But
he's getting more pitches in the zone than ever before.
This is a guy who's slugging seven twenty two and
hitting three point fifty six. It's counterintuitive to me. I
don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
It almost sounds like there's an edict from MLB that
they have to pitch to him that's cretat more interest.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
In the game.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I mean, I with you, man, I don't know. Again,
it's and it goes back to analytics too. Analytical world
does not like intentional walks. They don't want you putting
another guy on base because they see it as a
negative telling you it's just the truth I had. I
had a fight with that a little bit. I mean,
it goes back to the day with Bryce Harper. Nobody
bothered me that time we walked him on seven or
(41:23):
eight whatever times. It was in a four game series
in Chicago and came out really well for us, and
it hurt him for a bit. But nobody was trying
to tell me yes or no.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
At that point.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Then the analytical world start getting involved, and I started
meeting with some displeasures because no, you can't.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Don't.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
We don't do that because it's just putting another runner
on base, another potential run for the other team. I said,
are you kidding me? Are you absolutely kidding me? But
I would I would really love to know, uh, these
other teams and how they feel about that, because that's
definitely part of the It was part of the conversation
(42:01):
up to the you know, when I stopped managing twenty
twenty two whatever, that was part of the conversation.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Well, you'll be probably happy to hear that Ray Montgomery,
who's now running the Angels with Ron Washington out by
the way, we wish washed nothing with the best and
hopefully he takes care of the medical issues that are
keeping him out of the dugout. Ray Montgomery walked James
Wood four times intentionally.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Okay, it's the.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
First time since Barry Bonds anybody who's been walked four
times intentionally in one game. Actually since nineteen fifty five,
since they started tracking intentional walks. It's only Bonds, Andre Dawson,
Many Ramirez, Gary Templeton, Roger Marris. Now James Wood. I
mean he's twenty two years old, Joe. He's getting what
(42:47):
you did to Bryce Harper. He's getting that treatment in
a very similar way. If you get a right headed
hitter behind him, why pitch to this guy.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
I'm with you, man, I didn't realize that. I haven't.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I watched the videos in the morning of the highlights
of the Angels a lot, but I didn't know that
about the intentional walks.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
That's wrong with him. Man.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
You got to pick your poison, and you can't be
worried about all this other stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
I've told you.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I walk Cabrera with the Detroit three consecutive nights with
runners on first and second and third base open three
consecutive nights. So it wasn't first base open, two outs,
first and second, seventh inning, three consecutive. It's just the
same thing came up Brandon Bosch on deck, and that time,
when the rules were as they should be, you could
(43:29):
you could just spot a lefty on a lefty. I
was able to bring Randy chawate. Randy Chowed in to
face Bosh three consecutive nights, three.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Knights in row. We get him out, get out of
the inning.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
So my thought was always, if there's a base open,
why does it have to be first base if you
really don't want to pitch to somebody. And I still
stand by that, if you want to put first and
first and second and make it the baseload what's the
difference between that. I know, Okay, if they get a single,
it's two runs as opposal. I get that, but it's
worth taking that chance. So anyway, good for Ray to
do that. There's nothing wrong with that. You've got to
(44:02):
read the tea leaves in advance. Outcome bias stinks. Everybody
becomes smart after the thing occurs, so you got to
go with your best guests before the action occurs.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Good stuff, Joe.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
I really like that thinking, because when you think about it,
if there's a wild pitcher, a pass ball and the
runners move up, then the manager walks the guy. He
doesn't do it when it's first and second, right, So yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
I don't want to pitch him. Miguel Cabra, I don't
want to pitch them. He's God, he's an RBI. He
looks like an RBI. Is like like Paul Moultar looked
like a run walking up to the plate. That's what
Maks said about Paul Moltar back in the day. And
Cabrera looks like an RBI walking up to the plate.
The guy just knew how to hit with runners in
scoring position.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
It's a great point. And James wood is scary good
right now. I mean he's got easy opo power. Only
Aaron Judge as the highest slugging percentage. When James Wood
hits the ball to the opposite field, he bats five
hundred and slugs nine to thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
D Once this dude starts to pull the ball even
a little bit, his power are even going to be
sicker than they are now. Not saying he should change
because it's playing right now, but he's got a little
bit of that Juan Soto, you remember when he got
to the big leagues that left center field easy power.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
He's got that.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
For me, I had a bunch of really when I
was a hitting instructor with the Angels, I had Jimmy Edmonds,
Garrett Anderson, Timmy Salmon, a guy by name of Bobby
Rose in the plane in Japan.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
I called him Large Robert.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Bobby Rose was one of the best hitters I ever
had coming up at that time. All these guys, the
one common quality that they had coming up through the
minor leagues was opo gap. I love when a young
hitter comes equipped with the opposite field gap because to me,
like you just to suggest it to I think it's
a lot easier to teach somebody to pull the ball
than it is to teach them how to stay inside
(45:49):
the ball and driver to the opposite field like they
did so Garrett Anderson. Probably Jimmy, though Jimmy right to
the very end, had some great power. The other way,
Timmy coming up by Scott to Timmy at Grand Canyon
College at that time, not university, great opo power, our
opo gap, always exciting. And if I you know, in
a scouting world when I went out, if I saw
(46:10):
young you know, just describing for them right there with
opposite field line, drive, gap power, man, they were exciting.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Great stuff, Joe.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
And now we've reached the point of this podcast where
you take us home with the words of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
What do you got for us today?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah, I think there's I think there's some apropost stuff
based on what we have discussed today regarding you know,
physical versus mental mechanics, or the band, the struggle, you know,
the worrying about the narrative, all those kinds of things.
So this was before I don't know why, but I
did it. But if you live for people's acceptance, you
(46:47):
will die from their rejection.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
That is really good who's that from? By the way,
where'd you get that from?
Speaker 4 (46:54):
Loa cree l e c r a ela craye one word.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
It's like Aristotle. I don't know, I gotta I gotta
look in. Yeah, if you live for if you live
for people's accepits depens you will die from their rejection.
And that's what we do in this world today. Everything's
about likes and clicks and all that kind of crap,
and that really prevents you from individual thinking, putting your
thoughts out into the world, taking off chances, fortune favors
(47:22):
the ball, taking ball, taking your risks, to be playing
it safe all the time, because if you play it safe,
you're not going to get lamb based it. You're not
going to get highly criticized. But if you if you
if you play it safe, if you don't don't play
it safe, you open yourself up to so many different
methods today of being criticized or you know, put down whatever.
(47:43):
So my goddess is that that's a manager's life right there.
So if you live for people's acceptance, you will die
from their rejection because you're not doing what you think
is the right thing to do in the moment. It's
so important to do that if you going during the
course of a major league game, which I mean, I'm
just putting it out there like this, but not that
I did it. But if you're worried about the having
to dance to the press or whomever after the game,
(48:05):
because I'm going to go with the more conventional conservative
thing to do it, because it's if it does work,
it's going to be even more easily explained as opposed.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
To doing you really think is the right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Walking Migul Carrera with runners on first and second, with
Randy Chow in the bullpen and Brandon Bosh on the deck,
and you know, Jimmy Leland has showed he's not going
to pinch it for him, which was the right thing
to do. And if I didn't do that and Kubera
puts the ball in the gap, then I can't sleep
that night.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
That is so good, Joe, I mean really, I mean again,
we're talking about the purity of intentions right right, and
you're not playing to the echo.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
You're doing it because of your own convictions.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Your own experience, your own moral compass, whatever decisions you're making,
you're making not because of how you think it might
play out, or what you might have to answer to.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I just I love the thought of that.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
You hit a nerve with me because I get tired
of all everybody these days wants to know for you
to rate it, whether it's Netflix, you like it or
hate it. I'd like button. Come on, I mean, I'm
getting you go look to it. Doctor's visit, how is
your visit? Everybody wants this feedback and it's all obviously.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
It's not nuanced at all.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
You know, if something's really wrong, I'll let you know
about it. If you can do better, I'll let you
know about it. But this yearning, and I get it.
It's it's a again, it's an algorithm thing they need
to feedback and people are graded that way whatever.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
But I hate dumbing it down to did you like
it or not like it?
Speaker 3 (49:28):
I don't answer it. I never answered those questions. I oh,
it's so dumb. It's so dumb. If you don't hear
back from me, probably I liked it.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Good stuff, Joe. I like that. That's a great that's
one of your better thoughts of the day. Now, I'm
gonna have to look up this one name dude who
actually said it.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Yes, L E. C R LA craye.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
It's like, uh, it's not how McCray who was a
very great philosopher in baseball history.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
Let me get to this one more time. One, two, three, three,
Okay it is L E. C R A E.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Look cray Okay, must have been a catcher somewhere, Pataby.
Speaker 4 (50:01):
I think he's the guy that actually mentored cal Rawl.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I think he is smart man or she was.
Speaker 4 (50:06):
I'm not sure what the crazy.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
There you go, great stuff, Joe. We'll see you next
time on the Book of Joe, See your brother. The
Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey Darren, welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Back to the latest episode of the Book of Joe
Podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, Joe, I really want.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
To get your take on early and I mean early
discussion about the al Most Valuable Player race. But before
we do that, we have to start with some sad news,
the passing of Dave Parker, just a month away from
his induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
He waited so long for that moment.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Joe, I know you have a personal history with the
Cobra Dave Parker. First of all, just give me your
thoughts when you heard the news about his passing.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I mean, really very sad. I didn't I knew he
had been at Parkinson's. I didn't know was this far along.
I didn't know that he was in this kind of danger.
And so my buddy of mine, I said, Wow, I mean,
I was.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Just really overtaken with sadness. This guy.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
He was a teammate of mine as a coach with
the Angels late nineties with Terry Collins' staff, him and
Boa Rodney and others there. Listen, he he this guy
to me for the first time. I mean, I felt
when I was on the field with him, he showed
me what it was like to be in a major
(01:29):
league field and feel as though you're on an American
Legion field.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
He just he had his presence about him.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Could not be more comfortable in his own skin, could
not be more comfortable in a major league uniform or on.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
A major league field. I really that's what I gleaned
from him.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And on top of that, he always was there, Like
if anybody like, I'm not that people are getting on me,
but if anybody was like sending the non toward toward me,
he was. He was my defender man. He was just
so he was always there. He was always there. One
of the sharpest witted people I've been around. Fine, God
was he funny. He made up some stuff on the
(02:06):
spot that I thought was spectacular. I just felt closeness
to him, probably more than he felt toward me. But
I just I recognized everything about him. So I was
really upset about it, really upset into his family. If
anybody's listening, I just want to extend my condolences. I'm
going to try to get in touch somehow. But he
had that as among all the different coaches coming up
(02:29):
as a major league coach and and then manager, eventually
he had as much influence on me as anybody.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, six foot five, two hundred and thirty pounds, that
was probably in his prime at two hundred and thirty pounds.
That's a good guy to have your back, Joe. And
I think I love the way you put that as well,
that you know, he made everybody feel like he was
your best friend, right, I mean, Dave Parker in his prime,
I think he played the game of baseball as well
(02:57):
as anybody on the field through those years, just did
everything at an elite level. But to think of him, Joe,
not just as a coach, but later in his career,
where every team wanted Dave Parker on their team because
he was such a great teammate and his influence you know,
with other players is just remarkable. I know that Eric Davis,
(03:18):
the former Cincinnati read great, said he probably had more
impact on young players than any player I've ever been around.
I mean, what a testament. And you mentioned the Parkinson's disease.
You know, Dave Parker played major league baseball for nineteen years,
really long career. He battled Parkinson's almost as long fifteen years.
He passed away at the age of seventy four after
(03:39):
a long fight with that dreadful disease. But yeah, when
I think of Dave Parker, all round player, definition of
an all round player. But again, Joe, I think his
influence and I'm glad you worked on a staff with him.
Can only I can only imagine you know, he was
a great coach to have around because I knew as
a player he did influence players around him.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I worked with the Hall of Fame staff, I had Boa,
I had David and Rodney Krue on the same staff.
How about how about that and George Hendrick I mean cousin,
and I call it George cause him and David very
similar in a lot of ways. Before I got my
first manager's job, I try to in my interviews, I
(04:21):
would always talk about I want to have at least
one clubhouse coach too, the coach on your staff that
identifies with everybody, everybody the superstar player and pitcher to
the last guy in the bullpen and your last player
on the bench. Somebody that these guys gravitate toward when
things aren't going well, and you just and you know
(04:42):
that whomever, either park Way or or George would because
with gimm straight shooting advice and that's and so that's
what George represented. And then as I get there and
then eventually thought about it, David was.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
The same way. I mean, these guys, their.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Influence, like you said, even as a teammate, was legendary
within the clubhouse everybody I remember any sound as Andy
Sonnenstein sitting with Cuz all the time, and with David,
Like I said, I would sit with David just to
listen to what he had to say.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
So he's not only.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Very impactful on young players, he's very impactful on young
coaches too. This is a tough one. This was a
very tough one, Joe.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
When you talked about having a clubhouse coach, so to speak,
I had a smile on my face because he brought
me back to when I covered the Yankees and Billy
Martin was the manager and he hired Willy Horton, and
he called Willy Horton his tranquility coach.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I love that title.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Just you know, a guy who's been in the fox hole,
played the game at a high level and just a connector,
right connects with everybody, and you know, I look around
the game now maybe it's starting to come back, Joe.
You know that star Major League player who comes back
to the game as a coach and you know, maybe
he doesn't have all the skills on the iPad right
(05:58):
at some of.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
The clubs are looking for.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
But guys like Edgar Martinez now back in the game
as hitting coach, doing great job with the Mariners, Kevin Sitzer,
Eric Chavez with the Mets. You know, I never want
to rule anything or anybody out, Joe, Like you shouldn't
have hard and fast rules or anything for the most part,
but I do like having a balance on a coaching staff.
Talk to me about the importance of having a Dave
(06:22):
Parker on your staff who did play the game and
is a connector of people as well as let's face
he knew hitting really well as well.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, these guys aren't going to go have a conversation
with a computer after when they're struggling.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
They might be able to now with AI and the
way i AI.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Is being formulated, but you need an actual human being,
and especially one that's been through these kind of things.
And on top of that that that gregarious personality that
you gravitate towards. You just do, you just do. And
it's not like you're just going to give you a
warm fuzzy all the time. I don't want a warm fuzzy.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I want the truth. What are you seeing right now?
Talk to me?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And and you know, one of my favorites is that
honesty without compassion equals cruelty. So I think these guys,
like whether it's George or David whomever, are able to
read whomever they're speaking with to the point, Yeah, I'm
gonna be honest with them, but how honest can I
be with them? And they're able to almost like a psychologist,
able to morph into the conversation the point they want
to get to put out there. So like, all these
(07:20):
guys are so valuable, and that's you're right. We've talked
to Word about the word balance all the time. Yes,
in my mind's I I would love a staff of
really you know, computerized people that are able to accumulate
information as much as they possibly can and put it
in a manner that that it's readable to all of us.
(07:40):
And also, like I said, these guys should be at
the beck and call of these former Major league coaches
that are part of the staff, and then they're they're
they work in unison together. These the computer guys upstairs
put the stuff together, come on downstairs, give it to David,
give it to whomever. And of course, if the nuance
is a little bit too intricate to explain, would not
(08:01):
mind having them in on meetings. But overall, I think
it's overplayed how important this stuff is when the game begins.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I really do.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I've been there, I know that, and I've listen. I've
been dripping with analytical information as much as anybody can
throw at me for years. But when the game begins,
here's that You're on the bench and things stink and
things are going sideways. I want I want Parkway to
mosey up to somebody, or Chili Davids to mosey up
to somebody, or George Henrick to mosey up to somebody,
(08:30):
Marcel Latchman and sit down next to this picture struggling,
this player struggling, and give them a thought. It's always
about a thought. It's not about a print out. It's
about a thought. Whatever that thought is can change your
attitude and can could clarify things for you in a moment,
and a lot of it has to do with experience also,
and I think this is being totally overlooked today and
(08:53):
not even being considered. Yeah, I want the best analytical
staff that money combined. I've even said I'd love to
be the guy that interviews these guys before even bring
him into the clubhouse. But on top of that, I
want the best coaching staff we could possibly have based
on communication, ability, experience, toughness, and then you do want
(09:15):
the warm, fuzzy and then you do you like the
good cop badcop kind of a situation too.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
There's so many different things you want in a major.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
League clubhouse that I think now is not sought after
as it had been in the past. Maybe we weren't
so sophisticated regarding how we chose that in the past.
This clubhouse coach the guy that could really be impactful
when things aren't going well.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But believe me, I have been on top.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Of that for years because I could I recognize it,
I could see what the difference it makes. So it's
in a perfect world. It's a very complex situation putting
together your coaching staff, and for me, as a major
league manager, would love to be able to do that
almost unilaterally. I mean, of course he wanted to discuss
with everybody else. But I think too much today the
(09:59):
coaching staff is controlled the acquisition or the hiring of
that is, control by the front office, way more like
ninety ninety five percent to the ten to five percent
that the actual manager gets.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Just a couple of notes on the Cobra. David Geen Parker.
He was born in Mississippi, one of six children. The
family moved to Cincinnati when he's a child, so that's
where he grew up.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Blue collar family.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
His dad worked for a company in Cincinnati that manufactured valves.
He was drafted as a catcher, and obviously he switched
very early to the outfield. He's one of only five
players when he retired with at least five hundred doubles,
three hundred homers, one hundred and fifty steals, and twenty
seven hundred hits. Probably the height I think Joe of
(10:47):
his prime was nineteen seventy nine World Championship Pirates team,
and if you remember that All Star Game of the Kingdom,
he threw out two runners. I mean, you still see
that throw in your mind's eye, right It says six
foot five guy with tremendous power, could win batting titles
and throwing the guy out at third base at home
with just an amazing throw. He always liked to say,
(11:08):
when the leaves turned rown, I'll be wearing the crown
when it came to those batting races, just amazing away
with words, but away with the bat to be hitting
the winning batting titles. For a guy six five, two
thirty with tremendous power, just an amazing player to watch.
There were few people on the field, as you know
Joe back then, who had that kind of size. So
(11:30):
when you watched Dave Parker play, the way he ran,
the way he overpowered the baseball, I mean he was
back in the day kind of a physical freak in
what he could do on a baseball field. And of
course in the mid eighties, September of eighty five, he
went through those Pittsburgh drug trials at the center of
you know, the front page of newspapers, not just a
baseball story.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It was huge back then.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
He did testify in the course of those trials that
he did arrange for cocaine transactions with a Pittsburgh man
and some of his teammates, along with some other players
of the Astros the Dodgers. He said he used cocaine
from seventy sive to eighty two, and he said he
stopped using it because he said, I felt my game
was slipping, and I feel like that did play a
part of it. And the way he put that behind him,
(12:14):
because that was an ugly episode, the way it was covered,
and you know, the whole country was going through it
back then.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The drug issue. He wore that a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Joe in terms of especially in his hometown there or
playing hometown at Pittsburgh, wasn't always well received.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Famously.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It was you know, a battery at nine volt battery
was thrown at him in right field just barely missed
his head. At one time, he was the highest paid
player in the game, and people really held it against
him back then. I think they did that more then
when it came to salaries than they do even now.
So he went through a lot, but again, a nineteen
nineteen year major league career, won a couple of World Series.
(12:53):
Just a big, big life of Dave Parker, just a
big personality.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, like all of us, we all screw up at
some point the fact that he owned up to it
and moved it forward like he did. Part of the
culture that was part of the way back in that
that that stretch of our history. Actually it's probably even
worse today with different drugs being utilized. So again that's
just chalk it up, and that's just the part of youth.
And he made a mistake and he moved on from there.
(13:18):
And I'm here to tell you when you were around him,
like we were just've already gone over this, but it
was just there was something powerful about him, something different.
Had these big old, big old eyes. Man look you
right right into the eye, and to do the best
laugh and the sharpest wit. And if you're on a
bus after an Angel's win with Larry Boa sitting on
(13:41):
one seat in the back, David Parker somewhere in the
middle to the front, and then Mick bill Meyer, one
of the most underrated funny coaches in the history of
Major League Baseball, the three of them exchanging barbs as
you walked on the bus did ab Tania.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
It was. It was as funny as anything I've ever
been around.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
And I love these guys for that. I just met.
I just was with Boa a couple of days ago
up at a golf turn. I met up in Carbondale
hel Few Country Club and actually we brought up Parker's
name and we talked about David a little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I didn't know this was imminent. We never do, right.
And then mcbill meyer is.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Really he was a Charlie Manuel's bench coach in the
World Series in two thousand and eight when they beat us.
But anyway, this group of guys simultaneously being on the
same staff, I was very, very fortunate to be part
of that.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It's gonna be bittersweet next month than Cooper's doown Joe.
It's Dave Parker obviously being inducted posthumously.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
As well as Dick Allen as well.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Oh, talk about two great sluggers in this game who
waited a long time to get that or at least
the families to get that phone call that you know,
you're being inducted into the Hall of Fame. And we won't,
unfortunately have either one to step through that podium. But
really it'll be a special special day for the families
of Dick Allen and Dave Parker.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
That's my other guy.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I mean, I I didn't know Dick is not even well.
But I had some really good conversation with him. He
was one of my favorite players in the sixties. Again,
you talk about once you look at his whole body
of work and what he did and how great he
actually was. I was so pleased when he was got
when he got into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
And of course David.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
But these two guys, there were two of my favorite
well I can't say I mean Parker was a favorite player,
but more a favorite coach and a friend. But Dicky
On Richie Allen, my god, he got to watch that stuff.
You talk about a combination of speed and power, I
mean like enormous power and hit the ball so hard
to the opposite field. He's the guy he used the
forty ounced bat. I mean Parkway used a really heavy
(15:45):
bat too.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
David.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I used to have a drill with the heavy bat
that I used in instructional leagues and at a outfield.
My name of Cliff Garrett, young guy from Chicago, really
good speed, and I want him to make more contact
news his hands better. So I asked David for one
of his bats, and he gave it to me, and
it was like probably know, thirty six thirty eight ounces
was big, big old aroondack and Cliffy used that the
(16:08):
whole camp and ended up I think hit three hundred
somewhere in the minor leagues, I believe where at least
that was an instruction league. But it really helped accelerate
Cliff's ability to learn how to hit a little bit.
But that was Parkway gave us one of his bats,
and he was a big believer in that too. So
these are two gigantic former major league players that used
gigantic bats man.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
It's hard even to pick him up.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I can't believe they able to catch up the Major
League basketball is using these bats well.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Dave Parker will be missed by so many people. Our thoughts,
our condolences go out to the Parker family. And you know,
we also remember too that you know, Dave did battle
Parkinson's very publicly as well, so he brought a lot
of attention to the disease and what we can do
to try to.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You know, if not cure.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
It advanced the medicine and the research into that terrible disease.
So just a proud, proud man who just lived a
very full life but still gone too soon.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
We will miss him dearly.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
This is a somewhat related topic. We'll get into this
after this break here. We lost another long time one
of the best in his field, who is going into
the Hall of Fame in a matter of months, who
just died last week as well.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
This one's from the music industry as well.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I just wanted to bring this one up and we
will do that right after this. Welcome back to the
Book of Joe podcast that Joe we talked about. Dave
Parker passed away just a month before being inducted into
(17:50):
the Baseball Hall of Fame. I'm not sure if you
saw this that a member of guitarist and songwriter with
the Bad Bad Company, Mick Ralphs, passed away. Now they're
being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
in November, and he just passed away. Now, like Dave Parker,
he had been ill for a long time. He had
suffered a stroke years ago and really never recovered. But
(18:16):
that's one of my favorite bands from that era, Joe.
Remember the supergroups that term came out and the supergroups,
and Bad Company is one of those.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
You gotta love it.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Their first album was named Bad Company. The band's name
is Bad Company. The hit single was bad company, but
you'll like this. This is what Mick Ralph said about
when that band got together. He said, there is nothing
preconceived about this group. Our music is straightforward, there are
(18:47):
no gimmicks. This is the way I've always wanted to
play rock. It needs to be this way.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
How about that, well you said when this group got together,
and he said that this group got together and immediately
thought of the uniqueness to their sound.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
They were their own everything.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
They were the CEO, the CFO, the COO, the GM,
the manager, their everything there.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
It was their intellectual property was there.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
It was their passion, it was it was there whatever
came from within them at that particular age. And then
I just think about the struggle getting to the point
where now it's obvious Hall of Fame band, but we
don't remember, We don't know anything about maybe you know,
being in a garage, playing in some really smelly, dirty club,
was worrying about if they're gonna get paid or not all.
That's that's what it's just the minor leagues, you know,
(19:41):
this guy started. They started out in the minor leagues.
They started out in summer ball. They started out in
Colorado or the Cape Cod League, whatever, and then finally
they become who they are, and then everybody only sees
that I hear stuff like this. And I guess I'm
saying this because I don't know that it's as prevalent today.
I mean, everything's so manufactured today, and and everything's uh,
the is controlled by so few and I don't know
(20:03):
even though if a group like that is permitted to
to like work their way up through the bitter end
in New York City all the way up to you know,
the the Emmys or the whatever, Grammys, the Music Awards.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
It's so I just love these things.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I love these things, and I guess identify with them,
and that's probably why the uniqueness about their sound and
everything about them. So as a record comes on, you
know it's bad company. And the fact that okay, I
just thought Dave Dave Parker could have been bad company.
I mean, you know, it's so it's so connected. And
these are the things that I feel very fortunate about
(20:44):
being born when I was born. The fact that how
there was so much uniqueness and individuality put into success
and it wasn't a corporate kind of a thing, and
you didn't have to like running through a chain of
a whole bunch of different people, whether they liked it
or not. You weren't worried about accept that. You were
worried about putting out your heart and soul. So tangent.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I'm on, I get it. But that's what when you
brought that up.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Immediately I wrote down got together, and then I wrote
downward to arrow and then struggle, and then then it
becomes a hall of fame. That's the stuff that I love. Uh.
And I think that's not as prevalent today as it
had been.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, And I would say, Joe the other thing along
those lines, I think not as prevalent. And you know,
a band like this reminds me of is teamwork right
and the idea of accomplishing something as a group. You know,
I don't think that discipline as is ingrained in society now.
It's more like, you know, how can I get ahead myself?
(21:45):
It's the cult of individualism? And you think about that.
You know, the supergroups, as we talked about back in
the seventies and a little bit into the eighties, mostly
in the seventies. You know, Ralphs came from Matahopel, You
remember them, right, all the young dudes, Yah, yeah, they aby.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
To help them out there.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
A couple other guys in the band came from the
band Free, remember that one.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Free was outstanding absolutely all.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Right now, And the Bassis came from King Crimson.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So you had this these really talented musicians coming together
and playing some great music h and cranking out some
great songs. And I think it was that the teamwork.
And think about you know, great bands today. If you
can think about any of those great rock bands anyway,
there's not many that succeed on a you know that
(22:36):
super group basis that, you know, getting four or five
guys together and staying together and cranking out albums.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
So it's a different time.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Not saying it's it's better or worse whatever, but it's
a different time. And like you, I'm glad I was
there around for that. The formation of those bands.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
The creativity, right, the creativity and the inspiration. They find
inspiration in so many different places, so many different ways.
They would you just write songs about our house is
a very very very fine house. Uh what's that? Graham
Nash with Joni Mitchell back in Laurel Canyon back in
the day, just they went down shopping down in some
(23:15):
local groovy little spot, and he created this song based
on that experience on that one day.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
I'm pretty sure that's accurate.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And it becomes so popular, becomes so big, But do
we permit it, do we actually try to do it?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Do we just try to?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Do we even are we even aware to look at
like what's in front of our very eyes and then
try to extrap late on it to.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
The point where it becomes art.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Of course there is, of course there's artists out there
like that, no question, but to the to the level
that we experienced, I mean, my god, every just break
down all the different bands, and let's just go the seventies,
and almost within the first five notes or six notes
of a song, they're so uniquely different that you would
know exactly who it was and and and that the
(23:54):
sound of that group was prevalent throughout all of their work.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I don't I don't see that anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I don't think it's even I don't even know if
it's encouraged or say. Everything so synthesized and everything so
part of group think anymore, that you don't get this
individuality that we experience. To me, that is so near
and dear to my heart and something that, like I said,
from from my perspective, I feel like I could identify
with And that's that's what I love about the previous
(24:23):
this And this is not ageism speaking. This is just
the pointing out a fact that this was the way
it was, and I'd love to see a return to that.
There's no reason why you can't return to more of
an individual method of doing things and not being so
corporated with everything that we do. That would be kind
of interesting. I think i'd be more interesting. And even
in baseball, the permission to be the stat of the
(24:45):
way of greatness and permitting a more should I say,
and not as a structured, analytically structured game of baseball,
I think it would make it more interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Well, Joe, I think if it's possible, it's we know
too much now, right. You think about hitting in the
way hitting is taught right, and way we can break
it down into granular details in terms of using force
plates and slow motion capture.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Whatever you can.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You can break down the swing and the mechanics of
a swing more ways than ever before. So we know
so much about it. And I think we were talking
about those groups in the seventies and going into the
Laurel Canyon and that kind of sound. Nobody thought about
what played publicly, right. They created what was interesting to them,
you know, they followed their muse And I see this
(25:36):
in journalism too now, Joe, we have all the data
where they can measure what people read, how long they
stick on a story, what they don't read, and that
drives then what is produced. So the echo what comes
back actually is now the inspiration for what is created,
rather than the purity of saying, you know, this is
(25:59):
a good story or this is how I swing the bet.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but I
think having so much information available makes the naturalness of
creativity harder to come by. And I know for a
fact in my business it drives journalism, even to the
point of what headlines they're going to put on a
story to make you click on it. All of this
is known based on research and analytics. The creativity is
(26:28):
almost gone because people follow the numbers and the algorithms,
and it's just where our society is. And I'm sure
you see that and hear that, Joe, with the way
the game is taught.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Well, it's great explanation. You put it together really really well.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hey, listen, Joe.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Back in the day, when somebody cut an album that
was a true recording, it was the record of an event,
and the event was you're getting together in a room
and you're recording this happening at that moment, laying down tracks,
laying down the vocals.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It wasn't processed the way that it is now.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I don't know how you capture the authenticity of riffing
and just creating on the fly, so to speak, when
everything is processed one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And just to go back to your previous discussion about
the hitting, I think what's being taught right now, or
what's being able to be broken down right now, is
the physical mechanics. There's no question, but the mental mechanics,
how to play the game, how to approach in that bat.
I don't know how much is being spent there, because
of course I was there and I was actually been
(27:35):
a hitting coach in my past, and even with me,
I was very very aware that I thought spring training
probably more into the physical mechanics. First month or two
maybe still physical. Lif would say, like I mean even
talk about like seventy five percent of camp might be
physical mechanics. Then you knock it down to fifty as
the season begins, and by the end of the season
(27:55):
it should be just the opposite.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
It should be like seventy.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Five percent mental mechanics and maybe only twenty twenty five
percent physical. You just wanted to get away from that
because I really think the true genius and that we're
talking about genius Hall of Famers, whether it's music or
we're talking athletically baseball, their success was controlled by their
mind and what they thought and how they processed the day,
(28:17):
and their ability to put failure behind them behind themselves
very quickly. And further, we're not even worry about failure.
You know, they were out there, like we were said,
creat creating. They're out there creating, bringing their passion to life,
bringing their their years again of laying a bed at
night or maybe reaching over to grab a notepad and
I don't want to forget what I just thought and
writing it down by at your bedside table in order
(28:38):
to remember these wonderful thoughts that we had all day
that we knew there was there was there was something
relevant there and something that I could utilize there, and
something that really got to got to write it down
now because if I don't ever forget it, I'm just
going to go away. And always had those issues. So, uh,
mental mechanics, man, everybody, everybody wants.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
To go physical with this stuff. And it's it's great.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Like you know, I'm trying to play golf better, and
I've spent a lot of time on the physical. But
I tell you, my best stays when I go out there,
when I just play the course and I tried to
really get down to the mental side of what I'm
trying to do, and it's.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
All you get trapped. It's always you've always wanted the trap.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
If you got a bad shot, I got to go
back to the physical mechanics. And what happened right there? No, no, no,
just drop it. You're fine, Just go back and pick
out your target whatever. So I still believe that true
success is created and handled by the mind, and you
really have to nurture that and understand that. And at
some point you got to put the wrench down, mister
good wrench, put it down and just go out to let.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
The car drive itself.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Joe, Hey, I brought up the idea of the al
MVP race. We promised you a discussion about that. We
we're going to do that right after this. Who do
you have, Aaron Judge or cal Raley? We backed the
Book of Joe right after this. Welcome back to the
(30:00):
Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Hey, Joe.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
The other day I was doing for FS one a
Mariners Rangers game, and I'm watching cal Raley, and I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Listen, you're a former catcher.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
I don't have to convince you of this, but what
catchers go through is just amazing, right, And for cal
Raley to be hitting thirty two home runs through the
first eighty one games of the season.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
It's just crazy. He catches a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
It's not like he dhs most and then once in
a while catches and he's back there a lot and
he's calling pitches. He got hit with a foul ball
right where the chest protector stopped, right on his ribcage.
You know, one thing I caught my eye too was
one inning he let off. And you know, as a catcher, Joe,
when you lead off, you got to take the gear
(30:43):
off really quickly, and especially now with the pitch timer,
you got to run out there really quickly take your bat.
He got a walk and he was on base the
entire half inning in which there was a pitching change.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
By the way, so now.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
He's got to run back to the dugout, put the
gear back on, was able to get back to catch
one warm up pitch from his Mariners pitcher, And you
just think about how many times this goes on to
the course of a day. He threw out a runner, stealing,
I mean, taking foul balls, game planning, calling pitches, and oh,
by the way, he's just been just a monster at
the dish this year. He's doing things that are unprecedented
(31:16):
for catchers, at least halfway through the season offensively.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I was just blown away.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
By sort of the intricacies of what we you know,
almost accept and don't even notice from catchers and what
they go through, and you multiply that by one hundred
and thirty games. Whatever it is that being said, I
just can't bring myself to say he's the MVP.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Great? How great is everything?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I mean, who do you got, Judge or cal Raley?
Because the defensive quotion for Raleigh is really where the
argument at least becomes close.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Well, how about a great description obviously, and let me
just that before even go to that point. When you
watch rally hit. What's is there one thing that stands
out in your mind? Because when he first came up,
I think we might have been playing them, and I'm
turning to maunt Wise and I said, damn on a
foul ball straight back. I just said that, So I
(32:09):
know what I'm thinking because I remember it saying it immediately.
Is the one thing that stands out about is swing?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
To you? When you watch him swing the bat?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, I know this here he got closer to the plate,
so he's like Jose Riverez. He's turning that Rizzo turning
that outside pitch middle. But to me, it's his extension
poleside in the air, the way he extends through the ball.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
What do you got bat speed? Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I could not believe. And I think it was right handed.
When I first saw him, WHOA. I looked at Maddie
and I said, damn, I mean, who is this guy? Said,
We're gonna have to face him for so many swear
that's like my first impression when I saw this first swing.
That's exactly what I said to Maddie. Maddie was the
pitching coach. We're gonna have to watch this guy for
you know, many years to come.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
So that was it. I mean, then he went through some.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Struggles like a lot of young guys do, but with
all this power just I mean, I don't even know
if they measured how they measured bass speed with him
or not.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
If they have, I'm sure they have, but it's really extraordinary.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
And I think that's just like a golf swing, you know,
bat speed, hitting the ball harder farther, that they really
go hand in hand, and that the big thing is
to not miss it. And I miss your pitch and
that fell it off and again to demonstrate I mean
all the physical activity with his catching and still being
able to get up there strong enough, mentally alert enough
(33:23):
to not foul that pitch off and hit it hard
and keep it ferries, all those things going on, okay
at the halfway point, I mean, honestly, I don't know
that you could determine at the halfway point. I think
this has to play itself all the way out, and
if the maritor has reached the playoffs, I mean almost,
and if he continues his pace, it's hard to keep
it away from him. I mean, Judge has the innate
(33:45):
advantage of playing in New York city. There's no question
Seattle is one of the for all the intent purposes,
they could be playing in Alaska's that far west, So
I mean it's that's he's got that working against them.
Let's say this, if Judge was in Seattle and Rawley
was playing for the Yankees, there'd be no question who
would be the MVP. So there's there's that to be
considered too, So I would just play this one out
(34:08):
a little bit longer. Is what he's doing. Damn, that's
not easy to do. To play as often as he
does as well as he does be a forced on
defense like he is hit from both sides of the plate. Wow,
it's it's pretty non impressive.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Come on, Joe, You're not allowed in today's world to
let things play out.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Okay, I'm going to cal raly you decision now. Halfway
through the season.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Catcher, I'm going to Catcher.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
If if the Mariners make the playoffs, it will be
because cal Rawly also has a great second half as well, Right, Sure,
I think if he falls apart in the second half,
they probably will will not make the playoffs. So he's
so important to that team in so many ways. He's
one of the most indispensable players I think to a
team in all of Major League Baseball. That being said,
(34:54):
I've got to go with Aaron Judge. I mean, it's
you look at the hitting numbers and it's not even close.
It really isn't. I mean, Judge leads in basically every
single category. All this slash category is betting average, on
base percentage, slugging. He right now has an OPS plus,
which takes into account, you know, the ballpark factors, league factors,
(35:16):
the highest of a right handed hitter in baseball history.
I mean he leads in total bases war I mean hits.
He leads a league in hits. I mean, it's just amazing.
He's hitting three fifty six and slugging seven twenty two.
Raley is hitting two seventy five and slugging six forty three.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I get the argument, and.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I want to say it's cal Raley because it's just extraordinary.
I mean, this is I'm not sure Johnny Bench had
a year like this, right, But I just can't get
there because the gap and production Judge and cal Raley
is it's just right now, it's too big of a
gap for me.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Catch your bias on my part. That's what I think
it is allowed that Yeah, I mean I listen, thank
you you described it. Man.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
You saw these guys going in and out of the shower.
They're black and blue all over the place. I mean,
my from foul tips. Foul tips would create black and
blue all over your body. Like you get that foul
tip that hits your thighs sometimes or inner thigh got
into your cup, but just inner thigh. You walking around
your whole legs black and blue, and you're sore. You're
always sore because that stuff that doesn't go away. And
(36:20):
then it just the ball off the ribs. And then
the other foul tip that started to protect is when
it hit your throwing shoulder.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Oh my god, but you still gotta throw.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
So the wear and tear with these guys put up with,
and especially the every day eddie like him, if he's
he's catching that often, man, and having that kind of impact,
that's dang.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
That is so difficult. It is so so difficult.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Back in the day we had, you know, you talk
about Johnny Bench, you could talk about Jerry Grody who
was my absolute favorite. Uh, Randy Huntley who I got
to be friends with with the Cubbies. Randy caught hundred
sixty two games one year. I'm pretty sure this isn't
that right. One sixty two or one sixty one something.
He used to play catch double headers. The roach should
make up catch double headers in the summer in Chicago.
(37:07):
He said he'd be popping up all August and September.
All he could do is pop a ball up, but
he'll still be catching. It's it's just a really really
hard position to play, and to play and still be
able to produce actively off. Fancy you s got a
six something slugy percentage six thirty five forty three.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Hey, here's the other thing, Joe, And I'm sure you
really appreciate this. And I noticed this Saturday, and I've
seen it other times as well. When cal Rawley goes
out to the mound, right, the pitching coach does not
instinctively run out of the dugout to join the discussion.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I see that happen so many times.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
You know, right, you have a limited number of mound
visits five, So when a catcher walks out, maybe he's
just slowing the game down. Maybe it's something you talk
about the next hit or whatever. It is a lot
of times the pitching coach will say, well, we got
to go out there because we have a limited number
of visits. Cal Rawley, to me, makes more unescorted visits
to the mound than any catch in baseball. And I
(38:05):
love to see that, and so one of the things
I look for with young catchers as well, especially if
you're catching a veteran pitcher. I love to see a
young catcher say I'm gonna go out there and talk
to this guy. Don't wait for a signal from the dugout,
don't wait for the pitching coach to to come out
with you, or don't wait for the veteran pitcher to
call you out there. I love catchers who take control
(38:25):
of the game in that way, and cal Rawley does.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
That's a lot of self confidence, that's a lot of
preparation on his part. That is really a great bedside manner.
I don't know him, but I would imagine, have you
spoken with him, imagine his personality is kind of like,
is he ingratiating Gregary's kind of a guy.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
He is. He's a very endearing kind of guy. I mean,
total total gamer.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, but yeah, he's an endearing player.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I would say that anybody who's nicknamed the big Dumper
and embraces It tells you what kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
I love that man. That is so good. There's so
so many things to like about him. And then the pictures,
I mean the pictures, know, the pictures.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Know, I mean if these pitch if he wasn't all
of that, At some point some of these more veteran
guys on that team would say to the manager or
the pitch goes, listen, man, next time he comes walking up,
please come out with him, because I don't want to
hear what he has to say. It is he's he's vacuous.
He has nothing to say to me, so I think
they would have heard that by now.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
I love it. I love that he's able to do
all that.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
It indicates if the leadership component of what he does
on that team. And again we're talking about this and
I know we got the captain in New York. They
probably could throw a sea on Rawley if they wanted to.
For cal right, So he's he's all of that. And
I saw it as a young catcher. I just watched
the highlights now, but that is really impressive stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
And one quick note on Aaron Judge.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
You know he's he had a tough beginning to this month, right,
he gets sometimes in that mode where he's chasing that
down on a way pitch.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
He actually struck.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Out more in June, Joe than any month since his
rookie season. But what I noticed in the last two weeks,
and it started with that Angel series in New York,
and he does this from time to time, he closed
up his stance. You know, he used to hit with
for the most part, with an open stance, and I
think when he has trouble, especially at swing decisions, generally,
(40:19):
it is because he's chasing pitches he shouldn't be. He
just closed up his stands as a more neutral setup
with his feet, and he's got off. In the last
couple of weeks, he's totally back. What's interesting to me too, Joe,
is I can't believe this. He's seeing more pitches in
the strike zone than ever before in his career. I
don't get it. And by the way, he's also more aggressive.
(40:40):
He's swinging at more pitches in the zone than ever before.
He's swinging at more first pitches than ever before. But
he's getting more pitches in the zone than ever before.
This is a guy who's slugging seven twenty two and
hitting three point fifty six. It's counterintuitive to me. I
don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
It almost sounds like there's an edict from MLB that
they have to pitch to him that's cretat more interest.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
In the game.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I mean, I with you, man, I don't know. Again,
it's and it goes back to analytics too. Analytical world
does not like intentional walks. They don't want you putting
another guy on base because they see it as a
negative telling you it's just the truth I had. I
had a fight with that a little bit. I mean,
it goes back to the day with Bryce Harper. Nobody
bothered me that time we walked him on seven or
(41:23):
eight whatever times. It was in a four game series
in Chicago and came out really well for us, and
it hurt him for a bit. But nobody was trying
to tell me yes or no.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
At that point.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Then the analytical world start getting involved, and I started
meeting with some displeasures because no, you can't.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Don't.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
We don't do that because it's just putting another runner
on base, another potential run for the other team. I said,
are you kidding me? Are you absolutely kidding me? But
I would I would really love to know, uh, these
other teams and how they feel about that, because that's
definitely part of the It was part of the conversation
(42:01):
up to the you know, when I stopped managing twenty
twenty two whatever, that was part of the conversation.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Well, you'll be probably happy to hear that Ray Montgomery,
who's now running the Angels with Ron Washington out by
the way, we wish washed nothing with the best and
hopefully he takes care of the medical issues that are
keeping him out of the dugout. Ray Montgomery walked James
Wood four times intentionally.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Okay, it's the.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
First time since Barry Bonds anybody who's been walked four
times intentionally in one game. Actually since nineteen fifty five,
since they started tracking intentional walks. It's only Bonds, Andre Dawson,
Many Ramirez, Gary Templeton, Roger Marris. Now James Wood. I
mean he's twenty two years old, Joe. He's getting what
(42:47):
you did to Bryce Harper. He's getting that treatment in
a very similar way. If you get a right headed
hitter behind him, why pitch to this guy.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
I'm with you, man, I didn't realize that. I haven't.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I watched the videos in the morning of the highlights
of the Angels a lot, but I didn't know that
about the intentional walks.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
That's wrong with him. Man.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
You got to pick your poison, and you can't be
worried about all this other stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
I've told you.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
I walk Cabrera with the Detroit three consecutive nights with
runners on first and second and third base open three
consecutive nights. So it wasn't first base open, two outs,
first and second, seventh inning, three consecutive. It's just the
same thing came up Brandon Bosch on deck, and that time,
when the rules were as they should be, you could
(43:29):
you could just spot a lefty on a lefty. I
was able to bring Randy chawate. Randy Chowed in to
face Bosh three consecutive nights, three.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Knights in row. We get him out, get out of
the inning.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
So my thought was always, if there's a base open,
why does it have to be first base if you
really don't want to pitch to somebody. And I still
stand by that, if you want to put first and
first and second and make it the baseload what's the
difference between that. I know, Okay, if they get a single,
it's two runs as opposal. I get that, but it's
worth taking that chance. So anyway, good for Ray to
do that. There's nothing wrong with that. You've got to
(44:02):
read the tea leaves in advance. Outcome bias stinks. Everybody
becomes smart after the thing occurs, so you got to
go with your best guests before the action occurs.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Good stuff, Joe.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
I really like that thinking, because when you think about it,
if there's a wild pitcher, a pass ball and the
runners move up, then the manager walks the guy. He
doesn't do it when it's first and second, right, So yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
I don't want to pitch him. Miguel Cabra, I don't
want to pitch them. He's God, he's an RBI. He
looks like an RBI. Is like like Paul Moultar looked
like a run walking up to the plate. That's what
Maks said about Paul Moltar back in the day. And
Cabrera looks like an RBI walking up to the plate.
The guy just knew how to hit with runners in
scoring position.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
It's a great point. And James wood is scary good
right now. I mean he's got easy opo power. Only
Aaron Judge as the highest slugging percentage. When James Wood
hits the ball to the opposite field, he bats five
hundred and slugs nine to thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
D Once this dude starts to pull the ball even
a little bit, his power are even going to be
sicker than they are now. Not saying he should change
because it's playing right now, but he's got a little
bit of that Juan Soto, you remember when he got
to the big leagues that left center field easy power.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
He's got that.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
For me, I had a bunch of really when I
was a hitting instructor with the Angels, I had Jimmy Edmonds,
Garrett Anderson, Timmy Salmon, a guy by name of Bobby
Rose in the plane in Japan.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
I called him Large Robert.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Bobby Rose was one of the best hitters I ever
had coming up at that time. All these guys, the
one common quality that they had coming up through the
minor leagues was opo gap. I love when a young
hitter comes equipped with the opposite field gap because to me,
like you just to suggest it to I think it's
a lot easier to teach somebody to pull the ball
than it is to teach them how to stay inside
(45:49):
the ball and driver to the opposite field like they
did so Garrett Anderson. Probably Jimmy, though Jimmy right to
the very end, had some great power. The other way,
Timmy coming up by Scott to Timmy at Grand Canyon
College at that time, not university, great opo power, our
opo gap, always exciting. And if I you know, in
a scouting world when I went out, if I saw
(46:10):
young you know, just describing for them right there with
opposite field line, drive, gap power, man, they were exciting.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Great stuff, Joe.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
And now we've reached the point of this podcast where
you take us home with the words of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
What do you got for us today?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah, I think there's I think there's some apropost stuff
based on what we have discussed today regarding you know,
physical versus mental mechanics, or the band, the struggle, you know,
the worrying about the narrative, all those kinds of things.
So this was before I don't know why, but I
did it. But if you live for people's acceptance, you
(46:47):
will die from their rejection.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
That is really good who's that from? By the way,
where'd you get that from?
Speaker 4 (46:54):
Loa cree l e c r a ela craye one word.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
It's like Aristotle. I don't know, I gotta I gotta
look in. Yeah, if you live for if you live
for people's accepits depens you will die from their rejection.
And that's what we do in this world today. Everything's
about likes and clicks and all that kind of crap,
and that really prevents you from individual thinking, putting your
thoughts out into the world, taking off chances, fortune favors
(47:22):
the ball, taking ball, taking your risks, to be playing
it safe all the time, because if you play it safe,
you're not going to get lamb based it. You're not
going to get highly criticized. But if you if you
if you play it safe, if you don't don't play
it safe, you open yourself up to so many different
methods today of being criticized or you know, put down whatever.
(47:43):
So my goddess is that that's a manager's life right there.
So if you live for people's acceptance, you will die
from their rejection because you're not doing what you think
is the right thing to do in the moment. It's
so important to do that if you going during the
course of a major league game, which I mean, I'm
just putting it out there like this, but not that
I did it. But if you're worried about the having
to dance to the press or whomever after the game,
(48:05):
because I'm going to go with the more conventional conservative
thing to do it, because it's if it does work,
it's going to be even more easily explained as opposed.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
To doing you really think is the right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Walking Migul Carrera with runners on first and second, with
Randy Chow in the bullpen and Brandon Bosh on the deck,
and you know, Jimmy Leland has showed he's not going
to pinch it for him, which was the right thing
to do. And if I didn't do that and Kubera
puts the ball in the gap, then I can't sleep
that night.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
That is so good, Joe, I mean really, I mean again,
we're talking about the purity of intentions right right, and
you're not playing to the echo.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
You're doing it because of your own convictions.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Your own experience, your own moral compass, whatever decisions you're making,
you're making not because of how you think it might
play out, or what you might have to answer to.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I just I love the thought of that.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
You hit a nerve with me because I get tired
of all everybody these days wants to know for you
to rate it, whether it's Netflix, you like it or
hate it. I'd like button. Come on, I mean, I'm
getting you go look to it. Doctor's visit, how is
your visit? Everybody wants this feedback and it's all obviously.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
It's not nuanced at all.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
You know, if something's really wrong, I'll let you know
about it. If you can do better, I'll let you
know about it. But this yearning, and I get it.
It's it's a again, it's an algorithm thing they need
to feedback and people are graded that way whatever.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
But I hate dumbing it down to did you like
it or not like it?
Speaker 3 (49:28):
I don't answer it. I never answered those questions. I oh,
it's so dumb. It's so dumb. If you don't hear
back from me, probably I liked it.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Good stuff, Joe. I like that. That's a great that's
one of your better thoughts of the day. Now, I'm
gonna have to look up this one name dude who
actually said it.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Yes, L E. C R LA craye.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
It's like, uh, it's not how McCray who was a
very great philosopher in baseball history.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
Let me get to this one more time. One, two, three, three,
Okay it is L E. C R A E.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Look cray Okay, must have been a catcher somewhere, Pataby.
Speaker 4 (50:01):
I think he's the guy that actually mentored cal Rawl.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I think he is smart man or she was.
Speaker 4 (50:06):
I'm not sure what the crazy.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
There you go, great stuff, Joe. We'll see you next
time on the Book of Joe, See your brother. The
Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For
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