April 23, 2025 • 50 mins
Almost a month into the season, Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci are in awe of the performance from Aaron Judge. Tom shares some of the early eye-popping numbers from the Yankees. Joe has been shocked by the Cubs offense and praises Kyle Tucker as the reason. Tom highlights Braves' manager Brian Snitker being called out by his own player and Joe reflects on his own experiences to explain how this is handled. Plus, Shohei Ohtani adds another accomplishment to his resume...Father!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. Heydaron.
Welcome back to the latest episode of the Book of
Joe with me, Tom Verducci, and of course Joe Madden.
Joe are almost one month into the season. How you doing.
(00:25):
How are you enjoying the Major League Baseball season twenty
twenty five?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Doing well? I have been watching some games. You know,
what I really like is the MLB app So like
in the morning, I'll catch up on box scores and
things like that. I look at the post and I
look at the app. But the thing I like is
their video recap of a game. It's pretty good, so
you know, you're not going to see everything. Of course,
you don't see a lot of pitching moments that I'm
watching hitters I'm watching, you know, seeing guys that have
(00:50):
not I don't really know. I've never had a chance
to be on the field with their scout. I'm loving
the of the recent successes of Joe Adele. He's one
of my favorites. I like what he's doing Paris the
Young Second Basement with the Angels. I noticed that Hobby's
starting to pick up a little bit. I know he's
playing all over the place, but I like the app
for that reason, the condensed version of so I've been
(01:11):
able to keep up do my daily readings and so yeah,
so far, so good. Kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, that app is just awesome, isn't it. I mean,
if you're even a little bit of a baseball fan,
you have to have that. It's a must have.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Hey, one of our favorite topics here, at least mine,
I don't know about you, Joe is manager is dealing
with discipline because it doesn't come up much in MLB.
We're going to get into a major controversy in that regard.
But I have to start since you mentioned the app,
Joe and following Aaron Judge this year, I mean, is
(01:45):
it possible and I think it is possible that Aaron
Judge is the best he's ever been. I mean that's
saying a lot. This guy is an all time great
hitter and that's not an exaggeration. How about this slash
line this year Joe four eleven five h nine on
base percentage that's just ridiculous and a seven twenty two
(02:07):
slugging percentage. You know, he had a game Tuesday night
against Cleveland where he went four for four four hits
on four different pitches. He has twenty five RBIs in
his first twenty four games this year. Joe, we know
this guy's a great hitter. Tell me what you're seeing
with Aaron Judge this year, because last year we talked
(02:29):
a lot about the combo of Soto and Judge back
to back in that Yankee lineup. He's actually even better
this year.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I think it all comes down to chase and organization
of a strike zone. I think it starts with that.
You know, when he goes bad, like most hitters, they
get outside of their zone a little bit, and then
pitchers will just feed off of that. You lose your patience.
These the pitches that start as a strike can become
a ball. You start to offer or even check swing
a lot. The check swing always bothers me in regards
(02:57):
to how well the hitter is seeing a pitcher. So
I just he's obviously on top of his game. I
think he's motivated, but he's always motive. But the way
last year ended probably did not sit well with him.
The fact that he had a difficult postseason did not
sit well with him. So I think in a lot
of different areas this is like the perfect storm to
see the best version of him doesn't have Sodo in
(03:19):
the lineup, And I know there's been a lot made
of that. I've read a lot about that, Sodo's comments
the New York Papers, which I just I always take
with a grain of salt, doesn't really mean anything. But
the fact that is it's a different cast of character
is there with him. Some veterans in there too that
I kind of like. I'm a Goldsmith fan from way back.
So there's all these little dynamic things working right there.
(03:40):
But I think the primary thing is how last season ended,
how he probably processed the offseason, how and coming into
camp with his focus is and I think he's single
minded enough when he really gets to want to do
something make himself better at something, I think he really
applies himself in a way that's extraordinary. So my take
(04:03):
on it is that's it's a combination of all those
facets that's leading to this Barry Bonds kind of start.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, I like your take on that, Joe, because you
don't want to imply that he's trying harder, right, because
that implies that maybe you could have tried harder last year.
I never liked that, but I like that word focus
because there is a mental edge here and you hit
on a couple of reasons there. That the way the
postseason went for Judge last year. And also, you know,
without Mon Soto, let's face it, I mean, I think
(04:32):
you know Soto, you know, was on base so many
times in front of Aaron Judge. I think he's motivated
to say, hey, I'm still good man. You know, I've
got Bellinger, I've got gold Schmidt. May not be Soto,
but good hitters around me. And I just think he's
more focused, motivated at whatever word you want to use,
there's a little bit of an edge there, just to
throw some numbers at you. Just one thing that surprised me.
(04:55):
I looked at the number of pitches in the zone.
I thought last year he saw career high pitches in
the zone because Won Soto was on base a lot.
He actually has seen so far, and it's early more
pitches in the zone this year than he did last year.
That surprised me that pitchers are actually coming into the
zone to Aaron Judge. A couple other things against fastballs,
(05:17):
this I've never seen a number like this. Joe, He's
batting five h nine against fastballs. I mean, that is
just ridiculous. Six of his seven home runs have been
on fastballs. You can't throw this guy at fastball anywhere.
And the last thing I'll mention the pitch at the
bottom of the zone. I'm talking about that bottom rail strike.
(05:38):
Whether it's fastball or breaking ball or off speed. It
was the one place that you thought was a safe
zone against Aaron Judge. He came into this year hitting
two thirty four against pitches on the bottom rail. He's
sitting three p forty one on those pitches this year.
He is taking his hits. May not be home runs,
but he's getting hits off the bottom rail. I don't
see any place any safe zone for Aaron Judge. Joe.
(06:02):
I mean, you're you're famous for the way you've attacked
guys like Bryce Harper, going back to Barry Bonds. When
you've got a bat like this, how do you pitch
to Aaron Judge these days?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, we've talked about even in the past. You know,
it just depends on who's behind him. I know there's
a lot of talking, like you've talked about with Soda
in front of him being on base. I still want
to know sitting behind the guy, and when he's that hot,
you just you just don't. You don't dip your toe
in that water in the air judges water, you don't
dip it. You just stay away from him as much
(06:33):
as you possibly can. Even when he gets a critical
point in the game where you may feel like you
have to pitch to him, you really don't. So I
would I would just uh three game series. Emphasis would
be listen, make so and so beat us, Make so
and so beat us. We're staying away from him. Curious
about the fastball. But I like that because my take
(06:54):
a lot of it watching these stuff is like a
lot of guys these days aren't catching up the velocity,
and it's you know, it's pretty terrible velocity, so it's
difficult to catch up to. But when you can catch
up to big velocity, wow, then you really are. For me,
that's really majorly hitter. It's almost like the opposite where
major league pitcher can throw really locate his fastball and
throw a strike with it when he wants to. So
(07:17):
in conjunction with that, like I said, I believe what
I'm seeing is that he's not chasing as much. You
might have that number because if he's attacking the fastball,
I'm not missing it. That's really important because it's not
taken for a strike. It's not swung it and fouled
off or just obviously swung it missed. So whenever he
sees that pitch, something good's apparently happening. And then maybe
(07:38):
because of that and the fact that he's a little
bit more discerning right now, it's making it really hard
to imagine what are we going to do with this
guy before the series? How are we gonna attack him?
Regardless of analytics and where it says the pitcher not pitch.
There's so many things happening here. So I would just
in my pre series meeting emphasize again, somebody else has
got to beat us.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I think that's it, Joe. I don't think there's a
way you can really afford to attack him when he's
this hot. And I say, and you know, he might
be just this good. I mean, we're talking about a
month end of the season. I get that, but he
just looks totally locked in. Speaking of locked in, we've
got to talk about the highest scoring team in baseball, Joe,
and that is the Chicago Cubs. Have you seen the
(08:20):
way the Cubs are absolutely pounding the baseball. It is unbelievable.
You talk about fastballs only the Yankees, partly because a
judge have a higher slugging percentage on fastballs than the Cubs.
But what's interesting, Joe, is you look at launch angle
and they're only nineteenth. These guys are just spraying the
ball over the field. They're a line drive hitting team. Yeah,
(08:41):
they can hit home runs as well. But tell me
what you see of the Cubs early on, because they're
turning out to be a much better offensive team.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
At least I thought, welly, the guy hitting second. I mean,
I'm such a Tucker fan. We've talked about this before
the season began, and if you look at his numbers
right now, he's doing pretty good. He hit a home
run late in yesterday's game to put him tire ahead.
I can't remember exactly what that was. I'm a Tucker freak.
He grew up right down the street from where I'm
sitting at planned high school. I think he's that good.
(09:10):
I just think, like we've talked about it, argument is
I still would choose him over a Soto given a
free agency opportunity. I think this guy is that good.
Because he also kills lefties. The home run he hit
yesterday was against a left handed pitcher, So I think
it starts with him, I really do. I think he's
rubbed off on these other guys. Is that bat is
so pro it's a professional at bat all the time.
(09:32):
The other guys, I'm curious to see how this all
plays out. I think the one's been blowing out a
little bit. To what I've been watching, fly balls have
been going out. The home run Baya Maya to tie
it late yesterday, it was a fly ball and landed
in a basket and left center, So there might be
some of the elemental stuff coming in right now. But yeah,
like I do like their lineup. They got it going
(09:53):
on right now. But I think the lynchpin to this
whole thing, by far is the fact I think it's
one of the best acquisitions of the off season and
for them now and forever in the future. I think
it's really important that they sign him long term wise,
because he will be a difference maker for years to come.
(10:13):
He is that good, is at bachelor that good, and
on top of that, he's a good baseball player.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, it's all great points. Let me correct myself. Their
nineteenth and exit velocity launch angle. They are number two
in baseball, so they are getting in the air. And
you're right about Wrigley, by the way, I mean Riggly
last year played enormous because it was a tough weather
year for hitters. I mean like the whole year. And
if you look over the last four years, it is
(10:40):
alternated being a pitcher's park and a hitters park, and
it looks like we're back to being a hitters park.
And on Kyle Tucker, what he has done, Joe reminds
me of Don Mattingly, Sean Green, Steve Finley, good left
handed hitters who learn how to hit the ball in
the air and the poll side. That's what Kyle Tucker
(11:01):
has done. If you look, he has improved those numbers
literally every year in his career. It's been a gradual evolution.
Seven home runs this year, all of them on the
inside part of the plate to the pole side of
the field. He is a different hitter. If you watch
his swing. He used to swing over his front side
before with the closed stands. He has more neutral stance
(11:22):
anything inner half. He's opening up that hip. He's not
rolling over with the top hand he's back spinning the ball.
I mean, this is just a natural evolution of a
really good hitter who became and is becoming a really
good slugger.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well yeah, even when I first saw him with the astros,
dusty head and batting blower in the batting order, and
I always like, whoa, it also spoke to the depth
of that batting order and might they have been so
good for so many years? But he was kind of hidden.
The guy was hidden there for a while, and then
eventually he just he forced himself into the higher end
(11:57):
of the batting order. And I think maybe a guy
or two had left, or just the fact that he
got so good. But I listen it. I think this
guy is all of that. It's not going away. The
biggest reason why he hits lefties, I mean, he hits
a lefty like it's like it's sitting on the tee,
like he sees it out of his hand. There is
no benefit, zero benefit to bring in the left handed pitcher.
(12:20):
And the picture of this guy, I don't care who
it is, the guy with phillies, Albarado right, the left
hander right, great stuff, I don't care. I'm telling you
it does not matter to this fellow, he will hit
your best lefty with like this premier stuff. He's on it.
Like you said, he's learned to cover in. He's covering
in and putting it in the air. But go ahead,
(12:40):
go away from him and watch the line drive to left.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Center, Joes. It reminds you of anybody that you've seen,
because I always like to see players, and Don manningly
is always my classic case. Who get to the big
leagues maybe without power, but you can see there's a
good hitter and they grow into power rather than chasing
it early.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Uh Rufael Palmerrow, I mean, I mean he had I
saw him as a baby with the Cubs, you know,
Wally Joyner, and maybe not to this level obviously, but
Wallace Keith hit more home runs when he came up
with the Angels back in the day, left handed, smooth,
left handed hitters that eventually even like Will Clark, I know,
Will you know, you didn't really see him as a
(13:18):
ball in the air power kind of guy, but became
kind of that as he moved it along. So one
of my the best comps for me I and Rafael
palm Merron. I know there's issues with whether he did this,
or did that, but easiest swing in left hander, and eventually,
all of a sudden, it's like whoa where did that
come from? And he became all of that. So I
(13:40):
love matting Lee comp You're right on with that too,
but if asked me, I would also include pal Merrell.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, this is all happening, by the way, and we're
talking about Judge, the breakout of Kyle Tucker and the
Cubs in a time when the major league batting average
in April Joe is two thirty seven. Well, if you
go back to nineteen seventy three, that's started the dh era.
There's only been two years where April has had a
lower batting average and those years were twenty twenty one
and twenty twenty two. I mean, two thirty seven is
(14:09):
the average major league hitterer. Now. It is a tough
environment to hit in, so when you do see guys
just absolutely raking like Kyle Tucker and Aaron Judge, it's
even more impressive.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Let me ask you this, I mean regarding that, of course,
I don't even know what the weather's been like everywhere,
but to a certain extent, does it have to do
with the younger player being more involved. I mean guys
where again I've talked about the middle class, you know,
the guys in that price range that become somewhat prohibitive
just in order to standard salary caps and trying to
balance things out regarding money. There's certain guys like I
(14:41):
see Pilar still employed, and I love the fact that
Pilar is still employed, and I don't have like Verdugo
got back into it the Braves eventually, But there's this
certain middle class to me that's been less important based
on the fact that young guys have been pushed there
a little bit sooner. And while the young guys have
been pushed up, these guys have been kind of a
forgotten part of the game. I should make a list
(15:02):
of these players that I'm talking about more specifically, but
that group, there's that group that just in that price
range that are good baseball players. They're not getting the
same opportunities that younger players are getting who are still
learning their craft that you know, for years would still
be on the Triple A level but are now on
the big league level. So I'm just curious, like the
(15:23):
experienced level, of the expertise level, the hitting level of
some of these guys that needs to catch up, and
maybe are they just getting there a little bit too soon.
I'm just just posing.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
That I've got some answers for you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I appreciate it might surprise you, Okay. I mean this
game is getting younger, and I think you hinted at
this with the velocity in the game today. You know,
guys coming up to the big leagues they can time
a jet engine. Now they're seeing velocity when they're amateurs.
It used to be there was a big jump and
v low between the miners and the majors. That's not
the case now. To me, the biggest thing is swing
decisions on breaking balls, because you just don't see the
(15:57):
quality breaking ball in the minors you see the majors.
But anyway, to answer your question, you're absolutely right those
veteran experienced hitters are kind of going away. There's only
three qualified hitters this year age thirty six and above,
Carlos Santana, Paul Goldschmidt and Tommy fam That's it. Now.
If you break down the batting average, and I know
(16:20):
batting average is not the be all and all, we're
using that as a rule of thumb here. By age
in the Big Leagues. This year, players twenty five and
under are hitting two thirty nine, players twenty six to
thirty two thirty eight, thirty one to thirty five, two
thirty six, and thirty six and above two nineteen. There's
(16:40):
a direct correlation between age and performance. The younger players
twenty five and under, and it's only slight are doing
better than the age groups. In fact, that age group
batting average goes down the older guys are maybe counterintuitive,
but I'll go back to velocity, Joe. I think the
younger player now has just been trained on Velo.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, and I guess a lot of these are guys.
There are some prodigies among them too, There's no question
about that, and I just have to My problem is,
you know, I'm trying to create conjecture, ideas or thoughts
based on reading and just watching on TV. I am
so into as a former scout. I love to see
this with my own eyeballs in order to be able
(17:24):
to judge or consider what I see when I think.
To always rely on somebody else's thoughts or opinions. It's difficult,
and it's not like I don't believe people. It's not
the point. But you have to create your own judgments
based on eyeballs. Man. So anyway, that's interesting to note.
Thanks for the information. But it's the one thing I
miss about what I'm not doing right now. It's the
(17:47):
evaluation process watching players and in a sense judging them
and trying to project upon them and understanding them and
what I like, what I don't like. And that's the
part it's really difficult from the seat that I have
right now compared to what I used to have.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Well, I mentioned the top Joe, we needed to talk
about discipline and managers in the difficult spot they put in.
Of course, we're talking about the role of Brian Snicker
in Atlanta last weekend, and I'd love to get Joe's
take on this situation, and we will do that right
after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to
(18:33):
the Book of Joe. Joe, I'm sure you saw this
on Saturday night in Atlanta. Jared Kelnick hit the ball
off the wall, was thrown out at second base because
he essentially watched the ball thinking it might leave the yard.
It was a bang bang play. In fact, he was
called out only upon replay review. But Ronald Acunya the
next Day tweeted something about the manager Brian Snicker not
(18:56):
calling out Jared Kelnick for not running out that possible
home run, because obviously, in twenty nineteen, Thinker had benched
round Da Kunya for doing the exact same thing on
a fly ball the right field that create a bit
of a stir. I have some strong feelings about this job.
I'm sure you did too. I want to start with
your opinions because you've been there in the dugout. You've
(19:17):
had cases where you've had to sit people down when
something similar happened. What was your reaction to this.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I'm just going to see if I could go in
my own chronological order here. Number one, it starts in
the in spring training. It starts philosophically, it starts with conversations.
For me, it was always respect ninety I would have
meetings in spring training every year, obviously, and one of
the first things it was the first thing I would
talk about what the position players specifically, was that we're
(19:46):
going to respect ninety feet. I always felt if you
ran hard between home plate and first base, I don't
mean to the point you're going to get hurt. You know,
whatever that hundred percent is on that particular day. Let's
have that because I think it'll permeate the rest of
your game in a good way. So I always started there.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I saw it painted in the grass of the spring training.
That's how much you have.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, it was wonderful that we were able to do
that with the cubbies. I love that, and the guys
kind of caught onto it. Then then it comes to
the veterans on your team and the coaches, the lead
bulls in a sense, to really have them understand how
important it is conversationally, and then you need it to
get that out of them. Those guys had to buy
and this is something they really had to buy into.
(20:26):
You need their support as a manager to really have
this become part of the culture there. With that, I
want them to be the first guys to call out
a player in a situation where they don't the player
does not adhere to this, a player does lolligag the
full Durham line from whenever they seen that. I want
them to call them out on this first. So there's
(20:47):
a pecking quorder with all this. Of course, as individual
we all should be able to police ourselves. It's not
doesn't take a lot of talent to hustle the first
space and beyond. But then I want the older statesmen
within the group players and then the coaching staff to
jump in there. The best coaches are the ones that
are not afraid to have tough conversations, and that's a
tough conversation sometimes with Akunya, I'm betting that Snid had
(21:12):
other conversations with him before he actually did what he did.
I would bet not. I don't want to use the
word chronic, but I'm sure it popped up a little
bit where he was not pleased with the way he
ran maybe one two or three times before he actually
did pull him for kel Nick. Obviously, he is a
hair on fire kind of guy, so sometimes you're not
looking for that with a guy like that. So I
(21:33):
think there's a lot of things involved in this, But
the point is, if you say you're gonna do something
as a matter, you gotta do it. I've been involved
in it myself. I've pulled a couple of guys that
have been involved with the veteran player back in the
day that I advised my manager to do it based
on conversations we had prior to the moment with the player.
So long answer. There's a lot going on there, but
(21:56):
if you say you're going to do it, you got
to do it. So I'm just betting that there was
previous egregious situations that let snit to do this.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I agree with you on that, and I think there
was some warnings, if you will, or situations with a
kunya that had been dressed before it became public. But
let me start with this, the most important part of
all this Joe in my book, and I love Brian Snicker.
He's a great manager. I love his story. He waited
a long time to get a job. Win's a world
series dedicated to the Brays organization for half a century.
(22:26):
But you can't miss that play. And he literally was
unaware of what Jared Kilnick did. He didn't know what
he said until the next morning, this Sunday morning. That
cannot happen. Where is your staff and I'm talking about
coaching staff, analysts, everything. When a guy gets thrown out
(22:47):
in this case a bang bang play your job as
a manager to understand why, no matter where it is
on the base paths. Did he get a bad jump?
Was a secondary poor Did my coach not give him
a good heads up? What happened to cause that run
to come off the board or the runner off the field.
(23:07):
Sneaker didn't do that. Inventory You can't miss that play.
It's literally right in front of you. It was shown
on the video board in the ballpark because it was
under review. Other thing here, Joe, is that when Acunya
did not run, the lead runner was on second base,
So you have to bust it out of the box.
(23:28):
In this case, there's a runner on first base and
less than two outs. The runner literally as he should
stopped halfway between first and second turns and watches the ball.
He was literally stopped and flat footed halfway as the
ball hit the wall. So as the better runner, you
cannot be running full speed. Now that being said, you've
(23:50):
got to at least run hard enough to have that
second base be in play. You cannot, as kell Nick did,
go all the way to the coach's box with the
bat in your hands and you're looping out towards the
warning track. You can't do that. You have to give
an honest effort. But fans who are looking at this
thinking he should be busting out of the box, No,
(24:11):
you're gonna run down the runner in front of you.
But to me, it comes down to the manager, and
I love snit. I have no idea how he was
unaware of Jared Kelnick not taking a proper route on
that fly ball. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I will defend the point that sometimes you do not
see something because you're following something else dugout wise with
your eyeballs. But in this situation, first of all, the
fact that he got thrown out at second base, you
have to say what happened there? Right? You have to
ask that question. There's no way I would not have
asked that question. There's no way my bench coach would
(24:47):
have said, or did you not see that? Did you
see that? Or I would have asked a question, what
happened I missed that? So it's difficult to understand why
you did not know all of that. Even if you
didn't actually see it, you do the post warnerm immediately
and find out exactly what did happen right there. So
I agree with you on that there's some incongruencies right there.
(25:09):
That and I didn't even realize the fact that somebody
was already on base, that nobody really portrayed that. When
I watched the replays and stuff, I didn't understand that,
and that there is something about that that the runner
batter runner had to be aware of. But if you
do miss something because you're looking elsewhere and something happens
like you're talking about we're talking about, I would immediately
ask a coach what happened right there, and I would
(25:31):
find out immediately going to the clubhouse after the game,
find out immediately. But the way, like I said, scoreboards
and the speed of everything right now, it's hard to
understand or imagine that he did not know.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, I don't get it. I mean listen, a radio
reporter asked him after the game, are you going to
say something to Kelnick? And Brian Snicker said, what do
you want me to say? Way to go? You hit
the ball hard. He literally was unaware of it, even
after the game. You have a million coaches, analysts, support people.
(26:03):
You have iPads in the dugout that literally show every
play after it happens. I know teams Joe that when
a close play happens, on the basis, somebody on that
staff is reviewing that play on an iPad every single play.
It's right there for you. So even if you miss
it in real time, and that's easy to do. We're
all following the ball in the air, right, You're not
(26:25):
really following the runner. You have too many people around you,
you have too many access to replays, including on the
Jumbo tron, to be completely unaware of it. You know,
I hate to make something bigger out of this, Joe,
but it does speak to me that there are some
broken things here with the Braves. Lack of communication, lack
of support really have in your back, and I know
they've had a lot of coaching staff changes over the years.
(26:47):
You mentioned this, the lack of other players stepping up
and taking the lead bowl roll here and the fact
that Ronald Acunya still has a sore spot from six
years ago when the manager benched him that he's going
to call him out and throw them one under the
bus publicly. Now, I get why Ronald Lacunya feels offended
that there's a double standard in play. I get that,
(27:10):
but you can't And getting back to your phrase, Joe,
praise publicly and criticized privately. You can't throw your manager
under the brought in public like that. Again, I understand
why he did that. So to me, there's a lot
of things broken here about maybe This is all part
of just getting off to a bad start, even though
they're playing better lately. The Bray's got to do some
(27:30):
inventory here about why something like this happened and what
does it reflect.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
This is a perfect opportunity for a Jack Ryan moment.
You remember we've talked about even in the book. Jack Ryan,
the protagonist from the Clancy novels. He was advising the
President and there was a drug situation gone wrong in
the Caribbean where the President's one of his best friends
was involved in. This ends up being killed in a
(27:57):
pirate situation in the Caribbean, and they're trying to do
the spin doctor thing. They're going with the spin doctors.
We're trying to make excuse what happened in that this
guy was just an acquaintance. I hardly ever knew him.
But Jack Ryan steps in and says, no, I didn't
only just know him. He's one of my best friends
for a long time. So in situations like this, the
best way to handle it is run toward it, never
(28:18):
run away from it. Yeah, I might have missed it
and I should have said something, and I'm going to
address it because it was wrong and it's counter to
everything we believe in as an Atlanta Brave. So it's
pretty simple. Man. When you start deflecting, dissembling, whatever you
want to call it, in a situation like this, it's
gonna faster and it's going to become something larger than
(28:38):
it deserves to be. Number one, number two. This is
the part about the social media world that really is
very pulsive to me. The fact that a young man
would use it in a way to criticize his manager
like this is not to make excuse me any sense,
or it makes sense only because that's what goes on.
But it's a really cowardly way to confront a situation
(29:02):
like this. I believe it is a holy way, and
I would like to believe in the future he'll never
do something like this again. So in baseball, when you
have these kind of issues, the best way to deflate it,
dis armament and have it go away quickly is to
run toward it, never run away from it.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah, all great points, Joe, and I want to ask
you about your own experience with this. Like with Roald Acunya,
I agree with you. I don't like calling out the
manager at all like this. It's really just improper. But again,
it speaks to the hurt that he still carries, right yeah,
oh yeah, So something that needs to be addressed here
between Snicker and Acuna Junior. Whether it's repaarable, it should be.
(29:41):
But you one situation like this with BJ Upton as
a young player with the Rays, did you guys get
beyond that or was the hurt always there?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
No, we got beyond it. I mean there was a
other you know, with BJ and I such a great talent.
I sincerely love this young man. He and I had
a great relationship, but there was moments, not only that one.
It was another moment that I'm not going to get
into it specifically, but something happened in a game and
I called him in after the game and I said
(30:11):
some things to him that I later regretted, and eventually
I called him back in a there two later and
I apologized him for what I said and the fact
that I should have handled it better. I should have
presented in a different situation, not a different situation. I
should have presented it in a better way, a more
complete way, and I should have understood where he was
(30:32):
coming from also, So I did put him out of
a game, and again there was there was warnings before that.
That's why I mentioned that with the Acunya thing. But
the next time it was a lesson that I really learned.
But like I said, I did call him in and
I apologized him because I was wrong. I was wrong
in the way I handled it. I was wrong what
I said to him, and I wanted to know that.
(30:54):
And then after that, I think the relationship really blossomed.
So you have to admit to your mistakes sometimes as
a manager, where as a an authoritata figure you use
emotion in the wrong way and you got to really
keep emotion out of these kinds of conversations. So I
did include it. I was wrong, and I did apologize
(31:15):
to and we became pretty tight after that.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Very interesting stuff there, Joe. Really good insight. Question now
is are the Braves in trouble? And again I'm not
going to take one incident and say they're in trouble
because of that, but I look at the standings, and
I look at some of their injuries. I look at
the way they've been offensively the last couple of years,
but mostly I look at the National League and the
way the National League West has really jumped forward with
(31:38):
some really good depth there. Last year it took eighty
nine wins to get into the postseason. That number may
even be a little bit higher this year. So I
think a path to the playoffs you have probably looking
at having to win the NL East to get in.
If you're in the East. Now that can change. It's
very early. But where do you see the Braves visa
(31:59):
VI the playoff picture in the National League?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Well, I still think they have the capabilities, but also
with what you've been saying that the part of their
issues there are not necessarily that they have not been
playing well, but all the undercurrent that could really be
more detrimental than just not playing well that we know
we're going to figure out and get beyond. They're still
very talented. There's certain guys that have not been hitting
well playing well to this point are going to do
(32:23):
those kind of things. You know. They're pitching has been
impacted a bit, But I agree with you that these
little the undercurrent, the undertow, stuff that keeps pulling you
down needs to be dealt with. This is maybe an
opportunity or a time that I may have gotten away
from my normal patterns of not having a team meeting
during the course of a year or two address the situation,
(32:45):
because this definitely needs to be addressed. I would have
to believe that Sin's already spoken to Acuna regarding the situation.
You could smooth over it, but it has to be
sincerely rectified somehow. And again, not being in the building,
not totally understanding the interpersonal relationships and how strong are
weak they may be. It's hard to tell that, but
the fact that they're underperforming is one thing. The other
(33:08):
the point that they're underperforming with issues makes it more complicated.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
We'll keep an eye on that. Marldacuna Junior obviously coming
back from the knee injury. We'll be back sometime in May,
so he's working his way back and we'll see how
he folds into that lineup. In the meantime, we have
to talk about one of our favorite players, Joe show
Hey Otani in the news again, this time for something
off the field. We'll talk about that right after this
(33:34):
on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book
of Joe. Hey Joe, did you see that show? Hey
Otani is now a dad a baby daughter.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I did see that. It's spectacular, very happy for him
and his wife. I've never met her happy for show.
You know, I get to see him in a wonderful father.
I mean, so he interacts with this with his what
his pet dog or yeah, I mean so's he's got.
He's got that nurturing spirit. He's the calm human being,
(34:14):
calm influence. I'm certain he's going to be enamored with
this for years to come, and possibly there's got to
be a young show hey male at some point too.
But yeah, I'm very happy for him and his family,
and I think this could even set him on fire
even more. You know the fact that because I've always
believed once you become a parent, the words sacrifice really
truly becomes defined and it really puts things in proper
(34:40):
perspective in order in regards your life completely. So a
lot going on there. Happy for him, heads up, heads up,
baseball world, that might even get better.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, that's a great point, Joe, because I totally agree
with you. A lot of people jokingly or maybe not jokingly,
talk about dad power. You know, guys who become dads
all of a sudden get a little more pop in
their bat. I'm with you on the perspective angle and listen,
show has always a great perspective, right, I mean, he's
just a gentleman. He's a pleasure to be around. I
(35:08):
don't think he needed a wake up call. But yes, see,
you don't sweat the small stuff. You realize what's important
and it's outside of beyond your own agenda. It changes you,
there's no question about it. And not that this guy
needed to be changed, but in a good way. He
will be changed. But how about this show? And I
can almost guarantee you you mentioned a little show, Hey,
(35:30):
Probably someday, I can almost guarantee you that there will
be a son born to show Hey and his wife.
I say that because when he was in high school,
Ohtani sat down and he spelled out very specific goals
that he wanted, and not only that, the goals he
wanted at specific ages. Okay, he wrote down one of
(35:51):
his goals by the age of eighteen, he wanted to
join a major League baseball team. That tells you that
was on his radar for a long time, to see
if you could make it major league baseball. Obviously he
did that, maybe not at eighteen, but he has been
a very successful Major leaguer. By age twenty one, he
wrote down again, this is a high schooler saying this,
(36:11):
he wanted to be in a starting rotation and win
sixteen games. Well he won fifteen, so he got close
to that. Age twenty six, get married, check that box.
By age twenty six, win the World Series. He checked
that box again, these are not exactly at the same
age age twenty seven, be a member of the Japan
(36:32):
WBC team and MVP. He checked that box. By age
thirty one, first daughter is born. Check that box. He's
turning thirty one this summer. He actually had his first
son being born by age twenty eight, so that is
on his bucket list. First son being born at age
twenty eight. Then at age thirty two, win a second
(36:55):
World Series, age thirty four, win a third World Series.
I'm not only give you the partial list. By the way,
my favorite is by age forty. Yeah, he still wants
to play till he'st forty. Throw a no hitter in
my very last game. That's the high school or show.
Hey Otani essentially scripting his life, and he keeps checking
(37:17):
off these goals one by one, including the birth of
his daughter.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well that just demonstrates, oh good he is. I mean,
we talk about it. People are starting to you know,
figure it out. But like as a manager for him
watching this stuff from the sidelines, Yeah, I get it.
I mean, don't you almost have to be that prescient,
that committed, you know, having these these absolute etchton Stone
(37:43):
goals attached in order to reach that's some pretty lofty, impressive,
ambitious stuff. So you you almost have to set your mind.
You have to set your mind to all that before
it ever occurs. And on top of that, to be
that ambitious, you got to be pretty good, and you
got to know you're that good. I mean, that's we're
talking major league based. We're not talking about you know,
(38:05):
legion ball or Little league ball or your high school. Well,
you're talking about the best of the best. And to
create that kind of goal list, it's just above and beyond.
And again it just speaks to he knows how good
he is. Yeah, he is calm, he express his gratitude,
he's humble, he's all those different things. But deep down inside, brother,
(38:28):
he knows, he knows what's going on out there. He
knows on a day that That's what he used to
tell me, like he wanted to be in the lineup
on the day that he pitched because he believed when
he was in the lineup on the day that he pitched,
we'd have a better chance to win because he knows
that his bat would play on those days and help
the Angels win. He knows that stuff. He doesn't think
that stuff. He knows that stuff, and again in the
(38:51):
best possible way that it never comes across in the
wrong way. You never take him the wrong way, you
never get upset with the conversation with him. There's a
kind of a passive aggressiveness about him in a sense
that he'll I'll never like push on you, and if you,
you know, have a conversation that you may disagree just
a little bit, it's kind of like, well, okay, that's fine,
(39:11):
but I'll show you. I'll prove this to you. And
he does. So, you know, kudos to him to have
that kind of not only ability, but the confidence in himself.
That's you know, you can't get more self confident than that,
and what a wonderful tool to have. I mean, after all,
how we successful we are not really a lot of
(39:32):
times comes down to our self confidence and how we
don't let it become nick or impacted over you know,
bumps in the road. So again, none of its surprises.
I was there, I saw it my own eyes, had
the conversations nightly. God bless him. Man, it's it's we're
seeing something that's never been done before. So I really
enjoy it because I don't know the you're going to
(39:52):
see it again in a long, long time.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah. I say this all the time. Joe, He's one
of the most purposeful players I've ever been around. Everything
he does is done with purpose, nothing by the seat
of the pans, And I think what drives him more
than anything else he wants to be the greatest player
on the planet. And I truly believe that includes ever,
(40:17):
like all time, the best ever. But somehow, and you
hinted at this, Joe, Shohei Otani has a way of
not coming across as arrogance, right, There's a humility about
someone who wants to be the greatest player ever. He
doesn't wear that on his sleeve. He just goes about it.
And it's the way he does that purposefulness to be
(40:40):
the greatest player ever. He's not going to say that.
He's not going to brag about it. He's not going
to announce it. He's not going to say, look at me.
Other than just watch me play and that will be
my statement. But I do think that's what drives him.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
It's refreshing, isn't it. In a world of end zone celebrations,
in a world where when you come off the field
after hitting home run you got to put a hat
on or put a cape on, put something on right now,
in a world where the game's post you got to
get drenched after the game in a winning situation, of course,
but it's refreshing the way he responds to all of this.
(41:15):
It is the old black and white film where the
dude hits the home run, he runs around the bases,
comes in, slaps a couple of hands, shakes a couple
of hand, sits down, puts his helmets down, and gets
ready to go out on defense. It's refreshing. Man. I'm sorry,
but I'm you know, the touchdown celebrations and all that stuff.
It's a part of what's going on in the world today.
And I'm you know, listen, this is not an old
(41:36):
school dude talking right now. I find it what he's
doing is the more progressive way of doing things in
today's world, by not being so flamboyant, by not pointing
fingers at himself by not having to constantly call attention
to himself via social media whatever. He's just doing it
by being good at what he does. And this is
who I am, and this is what I've nurtured myself
(41:58):
to be for years, and that's why he is so
darn refreshing.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, I was laughing watching the game Tuesday night in
Chicago at Wrigley Field. I think it was a three
to one pitch bottom of the strike zone. It was
slightly out of the zone, but a fifty to fifty
ball and shoe. He had essentially had dropped his bat,
took a couple of steps towards first and the umpire
called strike three. Joey actually you could see him turn
to the umpire and say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I
(42:22):
didn't mean it. He was apologizing to the umpire because
you know, he didn't want the umpire to think he
was showing him up. He truly thought it was ball
four and was on his way, but right away he
corrected himself and said, I'm sorry. I mean again. This
is a guy who would you know, even before he
was in high school, junior high school, he wrote down
this plan of eighty one different methods of what he
(42:43):
wanted to do and how you go about it. One
of them was be respectful to Umpires. I mean, he's
just he's a role model in a lot of different
ways other than just being a great ballplayer. And by
the way, Joe he's he's back throwing bullpens. He hasn't
broken out any spin yet, so he's not close to
rejoining the rotation. Clearly, to me, what the Dodgers are
(43:04):
doing here is they probably think they have fifteen to
seventeen starts of show hey o Tani this year, and
they're not going to start that clock until probably late May,
maybe even June, so that he's available to them to
start postseason games.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Oh. I agree, They're going to slow play the crap
out of this. You know, they know they're in good
shape they can do something like this, and just trying
to prevent something that he may break down again in
the future. I think it's absolutely the right way to
do it. And again, like we talked about, I would
work backward. I would work backward and creating a schedule
from whatever the Game seven of the World Series supposed
(43:38):
to be, and I would start moving it back from
there a little latitude because you don't know if you're
going to get there, and you want to get there
to begin with. But I was always in a situation
like this, If there's going to be a finite number
of times, you really want to utilize them, pitch a stone,
et cetera. I like to build schedules backwards to be
on time with it.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Fascinating stuff. How do you handle show? Hey, there's nobody
like him, so he does have to keep his arm moving.
You don't want to shove him down completely. So he's
just get on the mound going through his progressions. But
when he starts spinning the baseball, that's when you'll know
he's getting closer to getting on the mound. So we'll
keep an eye on that. In the meantime, Joe, we've
(44:15):
talked about Judge, We've talked about Braves, We've talked about
tany Kyle Tucker, I'm curious to see where you're going
to end this episode of the Book of Joe. What
do you got mined up for today?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
We tiptoed through it a little bit earlier, you know,
talking about opinions and judgments and all that other kind
of stuff. I was talking about really enjoying the Scotty
component of our game. We're talking about Showy and how
people view him perception wise with Snitch. Just went through
whouna going on social media and then all of a sudden,
(44:46):
obviously this is it's good for baseball because it's an
entertainment industry and you're getting people involved in all these
opinions are popping up all over the place, and so
you get all and even in today's world in politics,
et cetera, and there's a lot of rush to judgment
kind of things that are occurring. But something I've alway
live by and I want to believe that I am
(45:07):
decent at this because really I'm aware of it. And
I just talked about my inability to really be giving
you great information on players because I haven't seen them
with my own eyes, and that's really important to me
to be able to do that. When I'm asked a
question or situation, I could utilize other resources, but being
(45:29):
on the field or seeing these guys or talking to
these guys is something completely different. So long answer, but
it comes down to never judge someone by the opinion
of others. I mean, and that's what we do, and
I don't like that, and I don't want to be
that guy. So when it comes down to whatever, And
judge is such a difficult word to utilize because I
(45:50):
really like to believe I'm not a very judgmental person.
But in a situation, like I said, the volatile world
that we live in, it's easy to rush to judgment.
It's easy to proclaim somebody guilty. To prove an innocent,
I that always bothers me. So that's it. Never judge
someone by the opinion of others. And in regards to
like a situation that happened with Snit and the Braves,
(46:14):
whatever that's going on right now, I love this one too,
and I think they kind of like are related. But
stay committed in your decisions, but flexible in your approach.
I mean, you got to like Keell Nick, I mean
obviously not that guy that you're going to look forward
to to, to not run hard, to not run through
the wall, and not play, like Sid said, with your
hair on fire. So you have to remain flexible in
(46:35):
your approach. So there's there's all. There's so many things
that work here. And when people want to become critical
of major league managers or the game itself, there's there's
so much nuance and layers involved. We do it every
day baseball. The line is baseball is life, and it
really does reflect it in the mirror very very closely.
So I'm not into judging other people by the opinion
(46:58):
of others, and always remain flexible in your decision making.
I mean, you have to have goals and set standards,
but there's also got to be a certain level of
flexibility with that too.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Oh that very well, said Joe. And as you talked
about that, I thought about what I think of is
maybe it's just part of my journalistic background. Is a
source material where your people are have lost the ability
to really understand and decipher where's is coming from. Like
you're talking about opinions. Is this based on fact? What
(47:27):
are the facts? A lot of people didn't point out
the fact that there's a lead runner on first base
in front of Jared Kilnick. That changes the dynamic. It's
different from the Acunya situation. It's also different because Acunya
had been worn several times before he got to the
point Sneaker did of having to discipline him. So, you know,
I still think that it should be courses taught today
(47:49):
like years ago, there was home economics, there was balancing
your checkbook. Right, you learn things at school like everyday
life skills, right, they should teach social media literacy, like
how to differentiate source material, what's junk and what's actually reliable,
and people just it disappoints me that people don't use
that sort of critical thinking to differentiate between where their
(48:13):
information is coming from and that's what's forming opinions. So
I'm glad you brought that up. It applies to the
Snicker situation, applies it just about anything. You know, if
it's not firsthand information from your own eyes, think about
where the information and opinions are coming from.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
So just the last point with that, because I've thought
about this for years, because since social media became prominent
and I was I had arguments with different people in
the industry somewhere on board with it. They thought it
was the democrazation of the society, and I thought that
on the surface, it may appear to be that, but
actually what's going to happen is not. And really what
(48:50):
it comes down to in your profession, you know, media profession,
whether it's a writer, journalist, whether it's media, television, whatever,
But right now you have amateurs running the professionals. I
mean all these things that pop up online, all the
things with Twitter or Instagram, TikTok, whatever that you have
to respond to as a professional, and you have to
chase all this conjecture, like you're talking about, most of
(49:11):
it is conjecture, none of it's most of it's not
based on fact, and a lot of it has to
do with bias in people's opinions that are non vetted.
And then you have to as a professional, you have
to chase this and somehow, you know, answer to people
because clicks and whatever and positive reviews and commentaries is
so important. So that's what I always was concerned about,
(49:33):
that this method of communication would cause really outstanding professional
people who are vetted, who do take their time and
regarding creating their opinions and where they getting information from,
are now being forced to search and research stuff that's
thrown out there by people that have not vetted anything,
that are just throwing things up against the wall, and
(49:55):
who knows what their purposes are. So that's my biggest
concern is now that the amateurs are running the pros
the professionals, and with that, you're getting a lot of
this misinformation and a lot of turmoil that's being created.
And that's the part that bothers me. But I've seen
it coming since I don't know twenty ten.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
You speak the truth, Joe, always good take on these issues.
Appreciate good job and we'll see you next time on
the Book of.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Joe YouTube brother Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. Heydaron.
Welcome back to the latest episode of the Book of
Joe with me, Tom Verducci, and of course Joe Madden.
Joe are almost one month into the season. How you doing.
(00:25):
How are you enjoying the Major League Baseball season twenty
twenty five?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Doing well? I have been watching some games. You know,
what I really like is the MLB app So like
in the morning, I'll catch up on box scores and
things like that. I look at the post and I
look at the app. But the thing I like is
their video recap of a game. It's pretty good, so
you know, you're not going to see everything. Of course,
you don't see a lot of pitching moments that I'm
watching hitters I'm watching, you know, seeing guys that have
(00:50):
not I don't really know. I've never had a chance
to be on the field with their scout. I'm loving
the of the recent successes of Joe Adele. He's one
of my favorites. I like what he's doing Paris the
Young Second Basement with the Angels. I noticed that Hobby's
starting to pick up a little bit. I know he's
playing all over the place, but I like the app
for that reason, the condensed version of so I've been
(01:11):
able to keep up do my daily readings and so yeah,
so far, so good. Kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, that app is just awesome, isn't it. I mean,
if you're even a little bit of a baseball fan,
you have to have that. It's a must have.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Hey, one of our favorite topics here, at least mine,
I don't know about you, Joe is manager is dealing
with discipline because it doesn't come up much in MLB.
We're going to get into a major controversy in that regard.
But I have to start since you mentioned the app,
Joe and following Aaron Judge this year, I mean, is
(01:45):
it possible and I think it is possible that Aaron
Judge is the best he's ever been. I mean that's
saying a lot. This guy is an all time great
hitter and that's not an exaggeration. How about this slash
line this year Joe four eleven five h nine on
base percentage that's just ridiculous and a seven twenty two
(02:07):
slugging percentage. You know, he had a game Tuesday night
against Cleveland where he went four for four four hits
on four different pitches. He has twenty five RBIs in
his first twenty four games this year. Joe, we know
this guy's a great hitter. Tell me what you're seeing
with Aaron Judge this year, because last year we talked
(02:29):
a lot about the combo of Soto and Judge back
to back in that Yankee lineup. He's actually even better
this year.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I think it all comes down to chase and organization
of a strike zone. I think it starts with that.
You know, when he goes bad, like most hitters, they
get outside of their zone a little bit, and then
pitchers will just feed off of that. You lose your patience.
These the pitches that start as a strike can become
a ball. You start to offer or even check swing
a lot. The check swing always bothers me in regards
(02:57):
to how well the hitter is seeing a pitcher. So
I just he's obviously on top of his game. I
think he's motivated, but he's always motive. But the way
last year ended probably did not sit well with him.
The fact that he had a difficult postseason did not
sit well with him. So I think in a lot
of different areas this is like the perfect storm to
see the best version of him doesn't have Sodo in
(03:19):
the lineup, And I know there's been a lot made
of that. I've read a lot about that, Sodo's comments
the New York Papers, which I just I always take
with a grain of salt, doesn't really mean anything. But
the fact that is it's a different cast of character
is there with him. Some veterans in there too that
I kind of like. I'm a Goldsmith fan from way back.
So there's all these little dynamic things working right there.
(03:40):
But I think the primary thing is how last season ended,
how he probably processed the offseason, how and coming into
camp with his focus is and I think he's single
minded enough when he really gets to want to do
something make himself better at something, I think he really
applies himself in a way that's extraordinary. So my take
(04:03):
on it is that's it's a combination of all those
facets that's leading to this Barry Bonds kind of start.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, I like your take on that, Joe, because you
don't want to imply that he's trying harder, right, because
that implies that maybe you could have tried harder last year.
I never liked that, but I like that word focus
because there is a mental edge here and you hit
on a couple of reasons there. That the way the
postseason went for Judge last year. And also, you know,
without Mon Soto, let's face it, I mean, I think
(04:32):
you know Soto, you know, was on base so many
times in front of Aaron Judge. I think he's motivated
to say, hey, I'm still good man. You know, I've
got Bellinger, I've got gold Schmidt. May not be Soto,
but good hitters around me. And I just think he's
more focused, motivated at whatever word you want to use,
there's a little bit of an edge there, just to
throw some numbers at you. Just one thing that surprised me.
(04:55):
I looked at the number of pitches in the zone.
I thought last year he saw career high pitches in
the zone because Won Soto was on base a lot.
He actually has seen so far, and it's early more
pitches in the zone this year than he did last year.
That surprised me that pitchers are actually coming into the
zone to Aaron Judge. A couple other things against fastballs,
(05:17):
this I've never seen a number like this. Joe, He's
batting five h nine against fastballs. I mean, that is
just ridiculous. Six of his seven home runs have been
on fastballs. You can't throw this guy at fastball anywhere.
And the last thing I'll mention the pitch at the
bottom of the zone. I'm talking about that bottom rail strike.
(05:38):
Whether it's fastball or breaking ball or off speed. It
was the one place that you thought was a safe
zone against Aaron Judge. He came into this year hitting
two thirty four against pitches on the bottom rail. He's
sitting three p forty one on those pitches this year.
He is taking his hits. May not be home runs,
but he's getting hits off the bottom rail. I don't
see any place any safe zone for Aaron Judge. Joe.
(06:02):
I mean, you're you're famous for the way you've attacked
guys like Bryce Harper, going back to Barry Bonds. When
you've got a bat like this, how do you pitch
to Aaron Judge these days?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Well, we've talked about even in the past. You know,
it just depends on who's behind him. I know there's
a lot of talking, like you've talked about with Soda
in front of him being on base. I still want
to know sitting behind the guy, and when he's that hot,
you just you just don't. You don't dip your toe
in that water in the air judges water, you don't
dip it. You just stay away from him as much
(06:33):
as you possibly can. Even when he gets a critical
point in the game where you may feel like you
have to pitch to him, you really don't. So I
would I would just uh three game series. Emphasis would
be listen, make so and so beat us, Make so
and so beat us. We're staying away from him. Curious
about the fastball. But I like that because my take
(06:54):
a lot of it watching these stuff is like a
lot of guys these days aren't catching up the velocity,
and it's you know, it's pretty terrible velocity, so it's
difficult to catch up to. But when you can catch
up to big velocity, wow, then you really are. For me,
that's really majorly hitter. It's almost like the opposite where
major league pitcher can throw really locate his fastball and
throw a strike with it when he wants to. So
(07:17):
in conjunction with that, like I said, I believe what
I'm seeing is that he's not chasing as much. You
might have that number because if he's attacking the fastball,
I'm not missing it. That's really important because it's not
taken for a strike. It's not swung it and fouled
off or just obviously swung it missed. So whenever he
sees that pitch, something good's apparently happening. And then maybe
(07:38):
because of that and the fact that he's a little
bit more discerning right now, it's making it really hard
to imagine what are we going to do with this
guy before the series? How are we gonna attack him?
Regardless of analytics and where it says the pitcher not pitch.
There's so many things happening here. So I would just
in my pre series meeting emphasize again, somebody else has
got to beat us.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I think that's it, Joe. I don't think there's a
way you can really afford to attack him when he's
this hot. And I say, and you know, he might
be just this good. I mean, we're talking about a
month end of the season. I get that, but he
just looks totally locked in. Speaking of locked in, we've
got to talk about the highest scoring team in baseball, Joe,
and that is the Chicago Cubs. Have you seen the
(08:20):
way the Cubs are absolutely pounding the baseball. It is unbelievable.
You talk about fastballs only the Yankees, partly because a
judge have a higher slugging percentage on fastballs than the Cubs.
But what's interesting, Joe, is you look at launch angle
and they're only nineteenth. These guys are just spraying the
ball over the field. They're a line drive hitting team. Yeah,
(08:41):
they can hit home runs as well. But tell me
what you see of the Cubs early on, because they're
turning out to be a much better offensive team.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
At least I thought, welly, the guy hitting second. I mean,
I'm such a Tucker fan. We've talked about this before
the season began, and if you look at his numbers
right now, he's doing pretty good. He hit a home
run late in yesterday's game to put him tire ahead.
I can't remember exactly what that was. I'm a Tucker freak.
He grew up right down the street from where I'm
sitting at planned high school. I think he's that good.
(09:10):
I just think, like we've talked about it, argument is
I still would choose him over a Soto given a
free agency opportunity. I think this guy is that good.
Because he also kills lefties. The home run he hit
yesterday was against a left handed pitcher, So I think
it starts with him, I really do. I think he's
rubbed off on these other guys. Is that bat is
so pro it's a professional at bat all the time.
(09:32):
The other guys, I'm curious to see how this all
plays out. I think the one's been blowing out a
little bit. To what I've been watching, fly balls have
been going out. The home run Baya Maya to tie
it late yesterday, it was a fly ball and landed
in a basket and left center, So there might be
some of the elemental stuff coming in right now. But yeah,
like I do like their lineup. They got it going
(09:53):
on right now. But I think the lynchpin to this
whole thing, by far is the fact I think it's
one of the best acquisitions of the off season and
for them now and forever in the future. I think
it's really important that they sign him long term wise,
because he will be a difference maker for years to come.
(10:13):
He is that good, is at bachelor that good, and
on top of that, he's a good baseball player.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, it's all great points. Let me correct myself. Their
nineteenth and exit velocity launch angle. They are number two
in baseball, so they are getting in the air. And
you're right about Wrigley, by the way, I mean Riggly
last year played enormous because it was a tough weather
year for hitters. I mean like the whole year. And
if you look over the last four years, it is
(10:40):
alternated being a pitcher's park and a hitters park, and
it looks like we're back to being a hitters park.
And on Kyle Tucker, what he has done, Joe reminds
me of Don Mattingly, Sean Green, Steve Finley, good left
handed hitters who learn how to hit the ball in
the air and the poll side. That's what Kyle Tucker
(11:01):
has done. If you look, he has improved those numbers
literally every year in his career. It's been a gradual evolution.
Seven home runs this year, all of them on the
inside part of the plate to the pole side of
the field. He is a different hitter. If you watch
his swing. He used to swing over his front side
before with the closed stands. He has more neutral stance
(11:22):
anything inner half. He's opening up that hip. He's not
rolling over with the top hand he's back spinning the ball.
I mean, this is just a natural evolution of a
really good hitter who became and is becoming a really
good slugger.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well yeah, even when I first saw him with the astros,
dusty head and batting blower in the batting order, and
I always like, whoa, it also spoke to the depth
of that batting order and might they have been so
good for so many years? But he was kind of hidden.
The guy was hidden there for a while, and then
eventually he just he forced himself into the higher end
(11:57):
of the batting order. And I think maybe a guy
or two had left, or just the fact that he
got so good. But I listen it. I think this
guy is all of that. It's not going away. The
biggest reason why he hits lefties, I mean, he hits
a lefty like it's like it's sitting on the tee,
like he sees it out of his hand. There is
no benefit, zero benefit to bring in the left handed pitcher.
(12:20):
And the picture of this guy, I don't care who
it is, the guy with phillies, Albarado right, the left
hander right, great stuff, I don't care. I'm telling you
it does not matter to this fellow, he will hit
your best lefty with like this premier stuff. He's on it.
Like you said, he's learned to cover in. He's covering
in and putting it in the air. But go ahead,
(12:40):
go away from him and watch the line drive to left.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Center, Joes. It reminds you of anybody that you've seen,
because I always like to see players, and Don manningly
is always my classic case. Who get to the big
leagues maybe without power, but you can see there's a
good hitter and they grow into power rather than chasing
it early.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Uh Rufael Palmerrow, I mean, I mean he had I
saw him as a baby with the Cubs, you know,
Wally Joyner, and maybe not to this level obviously, but
Wallace Keith hit more home runs when he came up
with the Angels back in the day, left handed, smooth,
left handed hitters that eventually even like Will Clark, I know,
Will you know, you didn't really see him as a
(13:18):
ball in the air power kind of guy, but became
kind of that as he moved it along. So one
of my the best comps for me I and Rafael
palm Merron. I know there's issues with whether he did this,
or did that, but easiest swing in left hander, and eventually,
all of a sudden, it's like whoa where did that
come from? And he became all of that. So I
(13:40):
love matting Lee comp You're right on with that too,
but if asked me, I would also include pal Merrell.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, this is all happening, by the way, and we're
talking about Judge, the breakout of Kyle Tucker and the
Cubs in a time when the major league batting average
in April Joe is two thirty seven. Well, if you
go back to nineteen seventy three, that's started the dh era.
There's only been two years where April has had a
lower batting average and those years were twenty twenty one
and twenty twenty two. I mean, two thirty seven is
(14:09):
the average major league hitterer. Now. It is a tough
environment to hit in, so when you do see guys
just absolutely raking like Kyle Tucker and Aaron Judge, it's
even more impressive.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Let me ask you this, I mean regarding that, of course,
I don't even know what the weather's been like everywhere,
but to a certain extent, does it have to do
with the younger player being more involved. I mean guys
where again I've talked about the middle class, you know,
the guys in that price range that become somewhat prohibitive
just in order to standard salary caps and trying to
balance things out regarding money. There's certain guys like I
(14:41):
see Pilar still employed, and I love the fact that
Pilar is still employed, and I don't have like Verdugo
got back into it the Braves eventually, But there's this
certain middle class to me that's been less important based
on the fact that young guys have been pushed there
a little bit sooner. And while the young guys have
been pushed up, these guys have been kind of a
forgotten part of the game. I should make a list
(15:02):
of these players that I'm talking about more specifically, but
that group, there's that group that just in that price
range that are good baseball players. They're not getting the
same opportunities that younger players are getting who are still
learning their craft that you know, for years would still
be on the Triple A level but are now on
the big league level. So I'm just curious, like the
(15:23):
experienced level, of the expertise level, the hitting level of
some of these guys that needs to catch up, and
maybe are they just getting there a little bit too soon.
I'm just just posing.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
That I've got some answers for you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I appreciate it might surprise you, Okay. I mean this
game is getting younger, and I think you hinted at
this with the velocity in the game today. You know,
guys coming up to the big leagues they can time
a jet engine. Now they're seeing velocity when they're amateurs.
It used to be there was a big jump and
v low between the miners and the majors. That's not
the case now. To me, the biggest thing is swing
decisions on breaking balls, because you just don't see the
(15:57):
quality breaking ball in the minors you see the majors.
But anyway, to answer your question, you're absolutely right those
veteran experienced hitters are kind of going away. There's only
three qualified hitters this year age thirty six and above,
Carlos Santana, Paul Goldschmidt and Tommy fam That's it. Now.
If you break down the batting average, and I know
(16:20):
batting average is not the be all and all, we're
using that as a rule of thumb here. By age
in the Big Leagues. This year, players twenty five and
under are hitting two thirty nine, players twenty six to
thirty two thirty eight, thirty one to thirty five, two
thirty six, and thirty six and above two nineteen. There's
(16:40):
a direct correlation between age and performance. The younger players
twenty five and under, and it's only slight are doing
better than the age groups. In fact, that age group
batting average goes down the older guys are maybe counterintuitive,
but I'll go back to velocity, Joe. I think the
younger player now has just been trained on Velo.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, and I guess a lot of these are guys.
There are some prodigies among them too, There's no question
about that, and I just have to My problem is,
you know, I'm trying to create conjecture, ideas or thoughts
based on reading and just watching on TV. I am
so into as a former scout. I love to see
this with my own eyeballs in order to be able
(17:24):
to judge or consider what I see when I think.
To always rely on somebody else's thoughts or opinions. It's difficult,
and it's not like I don't believe people. It's not
the point. But you have to create your own judgments
based on eyeballs. Man. So anyway, that's interesting to note.
Thanks for the information. But it's the one thing I
miss about what I'm not doing right now. It's the
(17:47):
evaluation process watching players and in a sense judging them
and trying to project upon them and understanding them and
what I like, what I don't like. And that's the
part it's really difficult from the seat that I have
right now compared to what I used to have.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Well, I mentioned the top Joe, we needed to talk
about discipline and managers in the difficult spot they put in.
Of course, we're talking about the role of Brian Snicker
in Atlanta last weekend, and I'd love to get Joe's
take on this situation, and we will do that right
after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to
(18:33):
the Book of Joe. Joe, I'm sure you saw this
on Saturday night in Atlanta. Jared Kelnick hit the ball
off the wall, was thrown out at second base because
he essentially watched the ball thinking it might leave the yard.
It was a bang bang play. In fact, he was
called out only upon replay review. But Ronald Acunya the
next Day tweeted something about the manager Brian Snicker not
(18:56):
calling out Jared Kelnick for not running out that possible
home run, because obviously, in twenty nineteen, Thinker had benched
round Da Kunya for doing the exact same thing on
a fly ball the right field that create a bit
of a stir. I have some strong feelings about this job.
I'm sure you did too. I want to start with
your opinions because you've been there in the dugout. You've
(19:17):
had cases where you've had to sit people down when
something similar happened. What was your reaction to this.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I'm just going to see if I could go in
my own chronological order here. Number one, it starts in
the in spring training. It starts philosophically, it starts with conversations.
For me, it was always respect ninety I would have
meetings in spring training every year, obviously, and one of
the first things it was the first thing I would
talk about what the position players specifically, was that we're
(19:46):
going to respect ninety feet. I always felt if you
ran hard between home plate and first base, I don't
mean to the point you're going to get hurt. You know,
whatever that hundred percent is on that particular day. Let's
have that because I think it'll permeate the rest of
your game in a good way. So I always started there.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I saw it painted in the grass of the spring training.
That's how much you have.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, it was wonderful that we were able to do
that with the cubbies. I love that, and the guys
kind of caught onto it. Then then it comes to
the veterans on your team and the coaches, the lead
bulls in a sense, to really have them understand how
important it is conversationally, and then you need it to
get that out of them. Those guys had to buy
and this is something they really had to buy into.
(20:26):
You need their support as a manager to really have
this become part of the culture there. With that, I
want them to be the first guys to call out
a player in a situation where they don't the player
does not adhere to this, a player does lolligag the
full Durham line from whenever they seen that. I want
them to call them out on this first. So there's
(20:47):
a pecking quorder with all this. Of course, as individual
we all should be able to police ourselves. It's not
doesn't take a lot of talent to hustle the first
space and beyond. But then I want the older statesmen
within the group players and then the coaching staff to
jump in there. The best coaches are the ones that
are not afraid to have tough conversations, and that's a
tough conversation sometimes with Akunya, I'm betting that Snid had
(21:12):
other conversations with him before he actually did what he did.
I would bet not. I don't want to use the
word chronic, but I'm sure it popped up a little
bit where he was not pleased with the way he
ran maybe one two or three times before he actually
did pull him for kel Nick. Obviously, he is a
hair on fire kind of guy, so sometimes you're not
looking for that with a guy like that. So I
(21:33):
think there's a lot of things involved in this, But
the point is, if you say you're gonna do something
as a matter, you gotta do it. I've been involved
in it myself. I've pulled a couple of guys that
have been involved with the veteran player back in the
day that I advised my manager to do it based
on conversations we had prior to the moment with the player.
So long answer. There's a lot going on there, but
(21:56):
if you say you're going to do it, you got
to do it. So I'm just betting that there was
previous egregious situations that let snit to do this.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I agree with you on that, and I think there
was some warnings, if you will, or situations with a
kunya that had been dressed before it became public. But
let me start with this, the most important part of
all this Joe in my book, and I love Brian Snicker.
He's a great manager. I love his story. He waited
a long time to get a job. Win's a world
series dedicated to the Brays organization for half a century.
(22:26):
But you can't miss that play. And he literally was
unaware of what Jared Kilnick did. He didn't know what
he said until the next morning, this Sunday morning. That
cannot happen. Where is your staff and I'm talking about
coaching staff, analysts, everything. When a guy gets thrown out
(22:47):
in this case a bang bang play your job as
a manager to understand why, no matter where it is
on the base paths. Did he get a bad jump?
Was a secondary poor Did my coach not give him
a good heads up? What happened to cause that run
to come off the board or the runner off the field.
(23:07):
Sneaker didn't do that. Inventory You can't miss that play.
It's literally right in front of you. It was shown
on the video board in the ballpark because it was
under review. Other thing here, Joe, is that when Acunya
did not run, the lead runner was on second base,
So you have to bust it out of the box.
(23:28):
In this case, there's a runner on first base and
less than two outs. The runner literally as he should
stopped halfway between first and second turns and watches the ball.
He was literally stopped and flat footed halfway as the
ball hit the wall. So as the better runner, you
cannot be running full speed. Now that being said, you've
(23:50):
got to at least run hard enough to have that
second base be in play. You cannot, as kell Nick did,
go all the way to the coach's box with the
bat in your hands and you're looping out towards the
warning track. You can't do that. You have to give
an honest effort. But fans who are looking at this
thinking he should be busting out of the box, No,
(24:11):
you're gonna run down the runner in front of you.
But to me, it comes down to the manager, and
I love snit. I have no idea how he was
unaware of Jared Kelnick not taking a proper route on
that fly ball. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I will defend the point that sometimes you do not
see something because you're following something else dugout wise with
your eyeballs. But in this situation, first of all, the
fact that he got thrown out at second base, you
have to say what happened there? Right? You have to
ask that question. There's no way I would not have
asked that question. There's no way my bench coach would
(24:47):
have said, or did you not see that? Did you
see that? Or I would have asked a question, what
happened I missed that? So it's difficult to understand why
you did not know all of that. Even if you
didn't actually see it, you do the post warnerm immediately
and find out exactly what did happen right there. So
I agree with you on that there's some incongruencies right there.
(25:09):
That and I didn't even realize the fact that somebody
was already on base, that nobody really portrayed that. When
I watched the replays and stuff, I didn't understand that,
and that there is something about that that the runner
batter runner had to be aware of. But if you
do miss something because you're looking elsewhere and something happens
like you're talking about we're talking about, I would immediately
ask a coach what happened right there, and I would
(25:31):
find out immediately going to the clubhouse after the game,
find out immediately. But the way, like I said, scoreboards
and the speed of everything right now, it's hard to
understand or imagine that he did not know.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, I don't get it. I mean listen, a radio
reporter asked him after the game, are you going to
say something to Kelnick? And Brian Snicker said, what do
you want me to say? Way to go? You hit
the ball hard. He literally was unaware of it, even
after the game. You have a million coaches, analysts, support people.
(26:03):
You have iPads in the dugout that literally show every
play after it happens. I know teams Joe that when
a close play happens, on the basis, somebody on that
staff is reviewing that play on an iPad every single play.
It's right there for you. So even if you miss
it in real time, and that's easy to do. We're
all following the ball in the air, right, You're not
(26:25):
really following the runner. You have too many people around you,
you have too many access to replays, including on the
Jumbo tron, to be completely unaware of it. You know,
I hate to make something bigger out of this, Joe,
but it does speak to me that there are some
broken things here with the Braves. Lack of communication, lack
of support really have in your back, and I know
they've had a lot of coaching staff changes over the years.
(26:47):
You mentioned this, the lack of other players stepping up
and taking the lead bowl roll here and the fact
that Ronald Acunya still has a sore spot from six
years ago when the manager benched him that he's going
to call him out and throw them one under the
bus publicly. Now, I get why Ronald Lacunya feels offended
that there's a double standard in play. I get that,
(27:10):
but you can't And getting back to your phrase, Joe,
praise publicly and criticized privately. You can't throw your manager
under the brought in public like that. Again, I understand
why he did that. So to me, there's a lot
of things broken here about maybe This is all part
of just getting off to a bad start, even though
they're playing better lately. The Bray's got to do some
(27:30):
inventory here about why something like this happened and what
does it reflect.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
This is a perfect opportunity for a Jack Ryan moment.
You remember we've talked about even in the book. Jack Ryan,
the protagonist from the Clancy novels. He was advising the
President and there was a drug situation gone wrong in
the Caribbean where the President's one of his best friends
was involved in. This ends up being killed in a
(27:57):
pirate situation in the Caribbean, and they're trying to do
the spin doctor thing. They're going with the spin doctors.
We're trying to make excuse what happened in that this
guy was just an acquaintance. I hardly ever knew him.
But Jack Ryan steps in and says, no, I didn't
only just know him. He's one of my best friends
for a long time. So in situations like this, the
best way to handle it is run toward it, never
(28:18):
run away from it. Yeah, I might have missed it
and I should have said something, and I'm going to
address it because it was wrong and it's counter to
everything we believe in as an Atlanta Brave. So it's
pretty simple. Man. When you start deflecting, dissembling, whatever you
want to call it, in a situation like this, it's
gonna faster and it's going to become something larger than
(28:38):
it deserves to be. Number one, number two. This is
the part about the social media world that really is
very pulsive to me. The fact that a young man
would use it in a way to criticize his manager
like this is not to make excuse me any sense,
or it makes sense only because that's what goes on.
But it's a really cowardly way to confront a situation
(29:02):
like this. I believe it is a holy way, and
I would like to believe in the future he'll never
do something like this again. So in baseball, when you
have these kind of issues, the best way to deflate it,
dis armament and have it go away quickly is to
run toward it, never run away from it.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah, all great points, Joe, and I want to ask
you about your own experience with this. Like with Roald Acunya,
I agree with you. I don't like calling out the
manager at all like this. It's really just improper. But again,
it speaks to the hurt that he still carries, right yeah,
oh yeah, So something that needs to be addressed here
between Snicker and Acuna Junior. Whether it's repaarable, it should be.
(29:41):
But you one situation like this with BJ Upton as
a young player with the Rays, did you guys get
beyond that or was the hurt always there?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
No, we got beyond it. I mean there was a
other you know, with BJ and I such a great talent.
I sincerely love this young man. He and I had
a great relationship, but there was moments, not only that one.
It was another moment that I'm not going to get
into it specifically, but something happened in a game and
I called him in after the game and I said
(30:11):
some things to him that I later regretted, and eventually
I called him back in a there two later and
I apologized him for what I said and the fact
that I should have handled it better. I should have
presented in a different situation, not a different situation. I
should have presented it in a better way, a more
complete way, and I should have understood where he was
(30:32):
coming from also, So I did put him out of
a game, and again there was there was warnings before that.
That's why I mentioned that with the Acunya thing. But
the next time it was a lesson that I really learned.
But like I said, I did call him in and
I apologized him because I was wrong. I was wrong
in the way I handled it. I was wrong what
I said to him, and I wanted to know that.
(30:54):
And then after that, I think the relationship really blossomed.
So you have to admit to your mistakes sometimes as
a manager, where as a an authoritata figure you use
emotion in the wrong way and you got to really
keep emotion out of these kinds of conversations. So I
did include it. I was wrong, and I did apologize
(31:15):
to and we became pretty tight after that.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Very interesting stuff there, Joe. Really good insight. Question now
is are the Braves in trouble? And again I'm not
going to take one incident and say they're in trouble
because of that, but I look at the standings, and
I look at some of their injuries. I look at
the way they've been offensively the last couple of years,
but mostly I look at the National League and the
way the National League West has really jumped forward with
(31:38):
some really good depth there. Last year it took eighty
nine wins to get into the postseason. That number may
even be a little bit higher this year. So I
think a path to the playoffs you have probably looking
at having to win the NL East to get in.
If you're in the East. Now that can change. It's
very early. But where do you see the Braves visa
(31:59):
VI the playoff picture in the National League?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Well, I still think they have the capabilities, but also
with what you've been saying that the part of their
issues there are not necessarily that they have not been
playing well, but all the undercurrent that could really be
more detrimental than just not playing well that we know
we're going to figure out and get beyond. They're still
very talented. There's certain guys that have not been hitting
well playing well to this point are going to do
(32:23):
those kind of things. You know. They're pitching has been
impacted a bit, But I agree with you that these
little the undercurrent, the undertow, stuff that keeps pulling you
down needs to be dealt with. This is maybe an
opportunity or a time that I may have gotten away
from my normal patterns of not having a team meeting
during the course of a year or two address the situation,
(32:45):
because this definitely needs to be addressed. I would have
to believe that Sin's already spoken to Acuna regarding the situation.
You could smooth over it, but it has to be
sincerely rectified somehow. And again, not being in the building,
not totally understanding the interpersonal relationships and how strong are
weak they may be. It's hard to tell that, but
the fact that they're underperforming is one thing. The other
(33:08):
the point that they're underperforming with issues makes it more complicated.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
We'll keep an eye on that. Marldacuna Junior obviously coming
back from the knee injury. We'll be back sometime in May,
so he's working his way back and we'll see how
he folds into that lineup. In the meantime, we have
to talk about one of our favorite players, Joe show
Hey Otani in the news again, this time for something
off the field. We'll talk about that right after this
(33:34):
on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book
of Joe. Hey Joe, did you see that show? Hey
Otani is now a dad a baby daughter.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I did see that. It's spectacular, very happy for him
and his wife. I've never met her happy for show.
You know, I get to see him in a wonderful father.
I mean, so he interacts with this with his what
his pet dog or yeah, I mean so's he's got.
He's got that nurturing spirit. He's the calm human being,
(34:14):
calm influence. I'm certain he's going to be enamored with
this for years to come, and possibly there's got to
be a young show hey male at some point too.
But yeah, I'm very happy for him and his family,
and I think this could even set him on fire
even more. You know the fact that because I've always
believed once you become a parent, the words sacrifice really
truly becomes defined and it really puts things in proper
(34:40):
perspective in order in regards your life completely. So a
lot going on there. Happy for him, heads up, heads up,
baseball world, that might even get better.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, that's a great point, Joe, because I totally agree
with you. A lot of people jokingly or maybe not jokingly,
talk about dad power. You know, guys who become dads
all of a sudden get a little more pop in
their bat. I'm with you on the perspective angle and listen,
show has always a great perspective, right, I mean, he's
just a gentleman. He's a pleasure to be around. I
(35:08):
don't think he needed a wake up call. But yes, see,
you don't sweat the small stuff. You realize what's important
and it's outside of beyond your own agenda. It changes you,
there's no question about it. And not that this guy
needed to be changed, but in a good way. He
will be changed. But how about this show? And I
can almost guarantee you you mentioned a little show, Hey,
(35:30):
Probably someday, I can almost guarantee you that there will
be a son born to show Hey and his wife.
I say that because when he was in high school,
Ohtani sat down and he spelled out very specific goals
that he wanted, and not only that, the goals he
wanted at specific ages. Okay, he wrote down one of
(35:51):
his goals by the age of eighteen, he wanted to
join a major League baseball team. That tells you that
was on his radar for a long time, to see
if you could make it major league baseball. Obviously he
did that, maybe not at eighteen, but he has been
a very successful Major leaguer. By age twenty one, he
wrote down again, this is a high schooler saying this,
(36:11):
he wanted to be in a starting rotation and win
sixteen games. Well he won fifteen, so he got close
to that. Age twenty six, get married, check that box.
By age twenty six, win the World Series. He checked
that box again, these are not exactly at the same
age age twenty seven, be a member of the Japan
(36:32):
WBC team and MVP. He checked that box. By age
thirty one, first daughter is born. Check that box. He's
turning thirty one this summer. He actually had his first
son being born by age twenty eight, so that is
on his bucket list. First son being born at age
twenty eight. Then at age thirty two, win a second
(36:55):
World Series, age thirty four, win a third World Series.
I'm not only give you the partial list. By the way,
my favorite is by age forty. Yeah, he still wants
to play till he'st forty. Throw a no hitter in
my very last game. That's the high school or show.
Hey Otani essentially scripting his life, and he keeps checking
(37:17):
off these goals one by one, including the birth of
his daughter.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well that just demonstrates, oh good he is. I mean,
we talk about it. People are starting to you know,
figure it out. But like as a manager for him
watching this stuff from the sidelines, Yeah, I get it.
I mean, don't you almost have to be that prescient,
that committed, you know, having these these absolute etchton Stone
(37:43):
goals attached in order to reach that's some pretty lofty, impressive,
ambitious stuff. So you you almost have to set your mind.
You have to set your mind to all that before
it ever occurs. And on top of that, to be
that ambitious, you got to be pretty good, and you
got to know you're that good. I mean, that's we're
talking major league based. We're not talking about you know,
(38:05):
legion ball or Little league ball or your high school. Well,
you're talking about the best of the best. And to
create that kind of goal list, it's just above and beyond.
And again it just speaks to he knows how good
he is. Yeah, he is calm, he express his gratitude,
he's humble, he's all those different things. But deep down inside, brother,
(38:28):
he knows, he knows what's going on out there. He
knows on a day that That's what he used to
tell me, like he wanted to be in the lineup
on the day that he pitched because he believed when
he was in the lineup on the day that he pitched,
we'd have a better chance to win because he knows
that his bat would play on those days and help
the Angels win. He knows that stuff. He doesn't think
that stuff. He knows that stuff, and again in the
(38:51):
best possible way that it never comes across in the
wrong way. You never take him the wrong way, you
never get upset with the conversation with him. There's a
kind of a passive aggressiveness about him in a sense
that he'll I'll never like push on you, and if you,
you know, have a conversation that you may disagree just
a little bit, it's kind of like, well, okay, that's fine,
(39:11):
but I'll show you. I'll prove this to you. And
he does. So, you know, kudos to him to have
that kind of not only ability, but the confidence in himself.
That's you know, you can't get more self confident than that,
and what a wonderful tool to have. I mean, after all,
how we successful we are not really a lot of
(39:32):
times comes down to our self confidence and how we
don't let it become nick or impacted over you know,
bumps in the road. So again, none of its surprises.
I was there, I saw it my own eyes, had
the conversations nightly. God bless him. Man, it's it's we're
seeing something that's never been done before. So I really
enjoy it because I don't know the you're going to
(39:52):
see it again in a long, long time.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah. I say this all the time. Joe, He's one
of the most purposeful players I've ever been around. Everything
he does is done with purpose, nothing by the seat
of the pans, And I think what drives him more
than anything else he wants to be the greatest player
on the planet. And I truly believe that includes ever,
(40:17):
like all time, the best ever. But somehow, and you
hinted at this, Joe, Shohei Otani has a way of
not coming across as arrogance, right, There's a humility about
someone who wants to be the greatest player ever. He
doesn't wear that on his sleeve. He just goes about it.
And it's the way he does that purposefulness to be
(40:40):
the greatest player ever. He's not going to say that.
He's not going to brag about it. He's not going
to announce it. He's not going to say, look at me.
Other than just watch me play and that will be
my statement. But I do think that's what drives him.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
It's refreshing, isn't it. In a world of end zone celebrations,
in a world where when you come off the field
after hitting home run you got to put a hat
on or put a cape on, put something on right now,
in a world where the game's post you got to
get drenched after the game in a winning situation, of course,
but it's refreshing the way he responds to all of this.
(41:15):
It is the old black and white film where the
dude hits the home run, he runs around the bases,
comes in, slaps a couple of hands, shakes a couple
of hand, sits down, puts his helmets down, and gets
ready to go out on defense. It's refreshing. Man. I'm sorry,
but I'm you know, the touchdown celebrations and all that stuff.
It's a part of what's going on in the world today.
And I'm you know, listen, this is not an old
(41:36):
school dude talking right now. I find it what he's
doing is the more progressive way of doing things in
today's world, by not being so flamboyant, by not pointing
fingers at himself by not having to constantly call attention
to himself via social media whatever. He's just doing it
by being good at what he does. And this is
who I am, and this is what I've nurtured myself
(41:58):
to be for years, and that's why he is so
darn refreshing.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, I was laughing watching the game Tuesday night in
Chicago at Wrigley Field. I think it was a three
to one pitch bottom of the strike zone. It was
slightly out of the zone, but a fifty to fifty
ball and shoe. He had essentially had dropped his bat,
took a couple of steps towards first and the umpire
called strike three. Joey actually you could see him turn
to the umpire and say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I
(42:22):
didn't mean it. He was apologizing to the umpire because
you know, he didn't want the umpire to think he
was showing him up. He truly thought it was ball
four and was on his way, but right away he
corrected himself and said, I'm sorry. I mean again. This
is a guy who would you know, even before he
was in high school, junior high school, he wrote down
this plan of eighty one different methods of what he
(42:43):
wanted to do and how you go about it. One
of them was be respectful to Umpires. I mean, he's
just he's a role model in a lot of different
ways other than just being a great ballplayer. And by
the way, Joe he's he's back throwing bullpens. He hasn't
broken out any spin yet, so he's not close to
rejoining the rotation. Clearly, to me, what the Dodgers are
(43:04):
doing here is they probably think they have fifteen to
seventeen starts of show hey o Tani this year, and
they're not going to start that clock until probably late May,
maybe even June, so that he's available to them to
start postseason games.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Oh. I agree, They're going to slow play the crap
out of this. You know, they know they're in good
shape they can do something like this, and just trying
to prevent something that he may break down again in
the future. I think it's absolutely the right way to
do it. And again, like we talked about, I would
work backward. I would work backward and creating a schedule
from whatever the Game seven of the World Series supposed
(43:38):
to be, and I would start moving it back from
there a little latitude because you don't know if you're
going to get there, and you want to get there
to begin with. But I was always in a situation
like this, If there's going to be a finite number
of times, you really want to utilize them, pitch a stone,
et cetera. I like to build schedules backwards to be
on time with it.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Fascinating stuff. How do you handle show? Hey, there's nobody
like him, so he does have to keep his arm moving.
You don't want to shove him down completely. So he's
just get on the mound going through his progressions. But
when he starts spinning the baseball, that's when you'll know
he's getting closer to getting on the mound. So we'll
keep an eye on that. In the meantime, Joe, we've
(44:15):
talked about Judge, We've talked about Braves, We've talked about
tany Kyle Tucker, I'm curious to see where you're going
to end this episode of the Book of Joe. What
do you got mined up for today?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
We tiptoed through it a little bit earlier, you know,
talking about opinions and judgments and all that other kind
of stuff. I was talking about really enjoying the Scotty
component of our game. We're talking about Showy and how
people view him perception wise with Snitch. Just went through
whouna going on social media and then all of a sudden,
(44:46):
obviously this is it's good for baseball because it's an
entertainment industry and you're getting people involved in all these
opinions are popping up all over the place, and so
you get all and even in today's world in politics,
et cetera, and there's a lot of rush to judgment
kind of things that are occurring. But something I've alway
live by and I want to believe that I am
(45:07):
decent at this because really I'm aware of it. And
I just talked about my inability to really be giving
you great information on players because I haven't seen them
with my own eyes, and that's really important to me
to be able to do that. When I'm asked a
question or situation, I could utilize other resources, but being
(45:29):
on the field or seeing these guys or talking to
these guys is something completely different. So long answer, but
it comes down to never judge someone by the opinion
of others. I mean, and that's what we do, and
I don't like that, and I don't want to be
that guy. So when it comes down to whatever, And
judge is such a difficult word to utilize because I
(45:50):
really like to believe I'm not a very judgmental person.
But in a situation, like I said, the volatile world
that we live in, it's easy to rush to judgment.
It's easy to proclaim somebody guilty. To prove an innocent,
I that always bothers me. So that's it. Never judge
someone by the opinion of others. And in regards to
like a situation that happened with Snit and the Braves,
(46:14):
whatever that's going on right now, I love this one too,
and I think they kind of like are related. But
stay committed in your decisions, but flexible in your approach.
I mean, you got to like Keell Nick, I mean
obviously not that guy that you're going to look forward
to to, to not run hard, to not run through
the wall, and not play, like Sid said, with your
hair on fire. So you have to remain flexible in
(46:35):
your approach. So there's there's all. There's so many things
that work here. And when people want to become critical
of major league managers or the game itself, there's there's
so much nuance and layers involved. We do it every
day baseball. The line is baseball is life, and it
really does reflect it in the mirror very very closely.
So I'm not into judging other people by the opinion
(46:58):
of others, and always remain flexible in your decision making.
I mean, you have to have goals and set standards,
but there's also got to be a certain level of
flexibility with that too.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Oh that very well, said Joe. And as you talked
about that, I thought about what I think of is
maybe it's just part of my journalistic background. Is a
source material where your people are have lost the ability
to really understand and decipher where's is coming from. Like
you're talking about opinions. Is this based on fact? What
(47:27):
are the facts? A lot of people didn't point out
the fact that there's a lead runner on first base
in front of Jared Kilnick. That changes the dynamic. It's
different from the Acunya situation. It's also different because Acunya
had been worn several times before he got to the
point Sneaker did of having to discipline him. So, you know,
I still think that it should be courses taught today
(47:49):
like years ago, there was home economics, there was balancing
your checkbook. Right, you learn things at school like everyday
life skills, right, they should teach social media literacy, like
how to differentiate source material, what's junk and what's actually reliable,
and people just it disappoints me that people don't use
that sort of critical thinking to differentiate between where their
(48:13):
information is coming from and that's what's forming opinions. So
I'm glad you brought that up. It applies to the
Snicker situation, applies it just about anything. You know, if
it's not firsthand information from your own eyes, think about
where the information and opinions are coming from.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
So just the last point with that, because I've thought
about this for years, because since social media became prominent
and I was I had arguments with different people in
the industry somewhere on board with it. They thought it
was the democrazation of the society, and I thought that
on the surface, it may appear to be that, but
actually what's going to happen is not. And really what
(48:50):
it comes down to in your profession, you know, media profession,
whether it's a writer, journalist, whether it's media, television, whatever,
But right now you have amateurs running the professionals. I
mean all these things that pop up online, all the
things with Twitter or Instagram, TikTok, whatever that you have
to respond to as a professional, and you have to
chase all this conjecture, like you're talking about, most of
(49:11):
it is conjecture, none of it's most of it's not
based on fact, and a lot of it has to
do with bias in people's opinions that are non vetted.
And then you have to as a professional, you have
to chase this and somehow, you know, answer to people
because clicks and whatever and positive reviews and commentaries is
so important. So that's what I always was concerned about,
(49:33):
that this method of communication would cause really outstanding professional
people who are vetted, who do take their time and
regarding creating their opinions and where they getting information from,
are now being forced to search and research stuff that's
thrown out there by people that have not vetted anything,
that are just throwing things up against the wall, and
(49:55):
who knows what their purposes are. So that's my biggest
concern is now that the amateurs are running the pros
the professionals, and with that, you're getting a lot of
this misinformation and a lot of turmoil that's being created.
And that's the part that bothers me. But I've seen
it coming since I don't know twenty ten.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
You speak the truth, Joe, always good take on these issues.
Appreciate good job and we'll see you next time on
the Book of.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Joe YouTube brother Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
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