The Book of Joe: The 2025 MLB Season is Underway!

Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci open the 2025 MLB Season with the Dodgers and Cubs in Tokyo.  LA wins both games, but what can be taken from the series? Tom discusses seeing Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Roki Sasaki in action. Joe reveals his approach to opening and planning for a season.  How hard is it to shape your roster and tell someone that their MLB dream is over?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey there and.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast with me,
Tom Verducci and Joe Madden Joe. The Major League Baseball
twenty twenty five season is officially underway and Chakra of Schaker.
The LA Dodgers are undefeated, sweeping both games in Tokyo
against the Chicago Cubs.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
I just watched the conclusion of the second game right now,
and you know, it's interesting. Obviously, the Dodgers are supposed
to do that, and they did. But there's a lot
to like about that Cup group.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
I think.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
I listen, I'm a big Kyle Tucker fan. Given an
option or choice, I think if I had the same
amount of money to spend, I might choose him over Soto. Actually,
I think he's that good. So they're going to catch up.
They're going to play well. But the Dodgers again played
with a lot of vengeance. I like like their attitude.
Kirby Yates is one of my guys from back with

(01:09):
the Rays. I like seeing him being as successful as
he is. Of course, show hey in the whole group,
but this is just you know, people should not read
too much into it. The Dodgers are good, yes they're
really good. But I think the Cubbies are going to
be better. I'll be obviously than last year.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Boy coming out strong right out of the gate show
Kyle Tucker over Juan Soto. If I had I get
your point. I get your point. You know, much better
defender and much better base reunter.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
I get it. But there's no way I'm taking Kyle
Tucker over Jan Soto.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I mean, I just can't. I just think so much
of Wan Soto offensively. I think he's He's the surest
thing in baseball. He never has even close to a
bad season. Makes everybody else around him plays every day.
I get where you're going. If you want to break
them down, then package of skills. Kyle Tucker's got more.
But man, Wan Soto is like an all time great.

(01:59):
I'm not putting Kyle Tucker there yet.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
I just I listen. I I've seen on the field.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
You saw what he just did in his last that
bat with two strikes against the left, he went off
the wall. It doesn't matter to him if you right
or left handed. He does give an inch the other guys.
Probably Soto's major strength obviously, is to get on base.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
He could hit.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
He's a good hit or no question, but that's it.
I mean, it's the offensive side of his game is
where it's at, and I mean that's what people pay for.
I understand that. But Tucker, like you just suggested to me,
plays a complete game and when it comes down to
a big at bat against a tough left handed pitcher.
I mean, among all these guys, I Tucker is possibly

(02:40):
one of the most devastating for me. Him and albare
Is with with the Astros for years, those guys back
to back. For me, it was always a strange that
they bat at Tucker so far down in the batting
order because I thought he was that good and he is.
So we'll just see how it plays out this year.
I'm that big of a fan of his and I
do love complete game, a complete game five to a player,

(03:02):
and I think that's what he is.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
A lot to talk about here, Joe, In terms of
first impressions coming off these two games in Tokyo, the
Dodgers and the Cubs, there's a lot to get into,
including the major league debut of Roki Sasaki. The good
and the bad, they were both really on display in
this game. Yeshobu Yamamoto, he made the opening start Game

(03:24):
one of that series, and man, he looked good. We'll
get into that. The Dodger depth will get into that.
The Cubs rode ahead, We'll get into that, but we
have to start with Shoho Tani Joe. I mean, come on,
he actually admitted he was a little bit nervous the
game number one. Why not, right, He's going back playing
in Tokyo, back in his home country for the first

(03:45):
time since he joined MLB, and what.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Does he do.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
He rips two hits each over one hundred and seven
miles an hour, comes back the next day, gets on
base three more times, including of course a home run.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I mean, how many times does.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Show Hey have to show us that with all the
expectations on him, he's like he never disappoints.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
He rises to the moment. It's just amazing.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Just think about all the pressure he was under in
the little sample of games Joe to go back there.
Everybody in that country wants to see show Hey bat
and do something good, and he delivers again. He's just
an extraordinary athlete. I mean, listen, I can go as
far as to say he's in that Michael Jordan category
right where just over and over in the big spot

(04:35):
when you expect the guy to come through, he does.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's not that easy. He's just an outlier.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Well, I think it's actually really great to hear that
he could be nervous. You know, under these the fact
that he's accomplished all that he's accomplished on an annual basis,
he's risen to the top of his profession very very
quickly as a pitcher and as a hitter. Can't wait
to see him pitch again. But to say that he's nervous,
I love that. Actually, I think that just speaks him

(05:03):
as a human being, as person. I almost want to
believe the words more eager than nervous. I mean, just
let me get going, let me get going. You know,
that's almost like when you play football and you've done
it first hit, everything goes away after your first first
time you get touched in the football game, your brain
goes back to normal. And I'm sure after you're seeing
his first pitch, his first at bat coming back here,

(05:24):
everything went back to normal for him too. But that
also would probably mean a higher level of adrenaline flow,
maybe like doing things that he even at a greater level,
more keen level. So a nervous or eager show Hay
is a very dangerous baseball player.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, the fans were obviously a little disappointed.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
In the seventh inning, the Dodgers were up by three,
Andy pa Has hustles into a double which leaves first
base open with two outs right hand or on the mound,
and Craig Counsel does what every manager has to do, right.
You just can't pitch the show. Hey there, you're trying
to keep the game intact. Seventh inning, It's still a
ballgame at that point, down three, and it worked out.

(06:02):
Tommy Edmonds is on deck, switch hit or he grounds out.
But you know, next time up as well. Ninth inning,
Ryan Presley on the mound and it's still a three
run game and Ryan Presley walks him on five pitches,
through one fastball, through him a three to one curveball
that was non competitive. Just the respect that you're saying
that managers and other pitchers now have for sho Hey Otani,

(06:27):
I don't think he's going to change his game, Joe,
but I was impressed there with that last a bet.
He's you know, he wants to come through again, we
know that, but give me your take on Craig Counsel
walking Otani there seventh inning, two outs based first base open,
and just the approach of opposing teams now against show
he of.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Course I would do the same thing, more than likely
knowing who's on deck, et cetera. That's why protection you
always talk about it who it's in front of, somebody,
who's going to hit behind somebody I've always loved. I
pay a lot of attention to who's hitting behind a
very good player. So that's exactly what happened. And furthermore,
why does a first base has to be open and
there's a base open? You know, so even if the

(07:06):
you know I've done that in the past, did the
years ago versus the Tigers with Miguel Carbrera coming up
with runners on first and second, walked it to load
the bases and bring up I can't remember the exact
hittor's name, but it was versus Randy chot left on left.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
I think there's this thing about it has to be
first base that's open. I don't think it has to
be first base that's open, if in fact, it's that
impactful if in fact it's a tawny that really looks
dialed in and you don't like the matchup on the mount,
I see nothing wrong with that, but it's pretty much
been that it has to be first base open.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
So yeah, I understand why I did it. It's going to.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Happen a lot this year. Who's ever going to trail
my bets is out right now? That might have created
a different reaction from counsel in the Cubs dugout, but
you're going to see it a lot, and I don't
blame him.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, listen, you know show How you mentioned this, Joe,
We're going to see him back on mound again. I
think the Dodgers doing the exact right thing here. You know,
they started having him throw bullpen sessions in spring training.
He's ramping up, hitting mid nineties, and then once the
exhibition games started in spring training where he needed to
take a bats and get his work in offensively.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
They backed him off.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
And when they get back, they'll go back to train
in Arizona and have another week off before the state
side opener begins. But I think Joe, you're looking at
show Hay this year making let's say twenty starts you know,
last time he was on the mound twenty twenty three,
he made twenty three.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
He's not going to throw that many, certainly not more
than that.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
So if you've got those twenty starts and you're the
Dodgers and you build a season expecting to play a
full seventh month, right, you build a team to go
to the World Series. You don't want show Hay to
be making those starts in April and May. So you
start to clock on him, probably to me in the
beginning of June, to make sure that he's available for
you in September and October. And he's going to pitch

(09:06):
on the sixth day, sometimes the seventh day.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
This is shaping up.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Really really well for the Dodgers, I think, and how
they're treating show Hey, and I do expect when he
gets back on the bound Joe, he's going to be
dominant again.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
I think he just knows no other way.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
No question.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
And when you're building a schedule like this and most schedules,
you always build it backwards. When I did spring training schedules,
I always build it backwards, building into whatever the important
parts of camp are. How many times you want to
get something done, so a guy like show, Hey, any
any pitcher in this situation where they're rehabbing, but they're
very prominent regarding potentially winning it all at the end

(09:43):
of the season. You have to build it backwards, I believe.
So that's what they're gonna do. They're gonna they're gonna
look at the end of the season. They're going to
look at the seventh game of the World Series and
move it backward from there, maybe at least the playoffs,
and move it back from there. But that's what you're
going to see. There's no rush. There's no rush into this,
I don't think. So whatever your number is, and like

(10:03):
you're saying, I agree with that, based on multiple surgeries,
who he is, how dominant he can be, you move
it back from whatever that You pick a date. I
don't care if it's like the first play playoff game,
is that, the first game of the World Series, whatever
that date is.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
You pull it backward from there.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
And that's how you decide when to start him up,
and then you start ramping up the number of pitches,
number of innings, number, et cetera. So this scheduling, I
think most people understand that. But you need to work
a schedule backwards and really to understand what you want
to do and how you want to do it, especially
in a situation like this.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
And let's sit back and remember show Hey, last year
in the World Series, tore his left labor m. He
had surgery right after the season. He did not go
home to Japan. This was the first time he was
back in Japan in more than a year. He rehabbed
all winter in Los Angeles. I mean five months later,
a little less than that. Joe, he's out there as

(10:57):
a dominant designated hitter. That is not an insignificant surgery.
And I know it's not his throwing shoulder, but we're
talking about swinging the best. It's just remarkable to me
that he bounce back the way that he did, because
you don't see as you see with a lot of
guys who have shoulder surgery sometimes it takes a while.
Whether it's Adrian gonzell Is, Matt Kemp, Cody Bellinger, it
looks just as dominant.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
It's crazy he does he did, and I agree with that.
I would still just be just cautious. I'm still believe
they're not going to push, push push him. I would
imagine they're still going to give him some rest with
that shoulder moving into the season, maybe even the beginning
of the season again, build a schedule that permits days
off for him, just to make sure that that continues

(11:38):
to heal as they want it to be. So, yeah,
it's he's different. We've said this cizillion times. I witnessed
it in person, conversationally and as a manager from a dugout.
The guy people keep asking me, you don't want to
playing golf for just hanging out in the barroom. Who's
the best player and who's the listen? You got to
say show Hey, I mean, I've had some wonderful players

(12:01):
and athletes and moments. Is a league manager, as a coach,
what ever? But never have I been involved with anybody
like him. And I challenge if you've been in baseball
at all, and you as a reporter to actually see
something like this and be a round something like this.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
It's the first time for all of us.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Oh absolutely no, He's the best player ever. Yeah right,
I'm not saying he's had the best career. He still
has a way to go. You know, he's not as
accomplished as you know, Barry Bonds, Babe, Ruth go on
and on. But his skill in playing this game of
baseball is unprecedented. You know, he's he's a guy. Every
year now he can contend for a Cy Young title

(12:39):
and a home run title.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
I mean, it's just crazy.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
His mental skills too.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, let's talk about the Dodgers, Joe, because you know,
if you thought the Dodgers might somehow be vulnerable, you
know what they did was they say, well, you know,
we're not going to have Mookie Batts at Freddy Freeman
in our lineup for these two games in Japan, and
we're going to win the games anyway they use. They
showed off their depth, man, that their bullpen is just

(13:04):
so deep.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Dave Roberts used nine.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Different relievers in these two games, and they struck out
fourteen batters in ten innings. I mean, they're just it's
hard to come back on the Dodgers because their bullpen
is so good, their offense is relentless, and as I said,
they'd even have Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman in these games.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
This is this is a handful team, Joe.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I mean, it's I don't know how anybody takes them
out in the National League West, and there's some really
good teams out there. It's a really good division. But
I think this team is as good as advertised. I
think Listen, we haven't had a repeat World Series champion
since the two thousand Yankees, and this team, to me,
should be as much favored to win as those Yankees
if Joe Tory were back then.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
They're that good.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
Yeah, I'm looking at it too them.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
They're looking at the National League setup right now, and
of course they're they're phibotive favorite, no question about it.
The other teams, like you said, are pretty good, whether
it's the Padres, the Diamondbacks, the ascending Giants, and you.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Know Colorado still has a long way to go.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
However, Yeah, with the Dodgers, it's just a they're in
a different stratosphere right now. Andrew's done a wonderful job
of putting that all together. And you use the word depths.
See that's the thing. For me, that's what they got
going on as well as anybody else has. And that
to me is what sets you apart regarding being able
to win on an annual basis. Uh, you're going to

(14:22):
get people hurt. How do we do we cover that?
And they cover They always cover with their depth, and
that's that's the part to me that should get more
credit that I think it's been given credit, but really
stands out. You look at other teams, other situations, and
it's always comes back to a look at the Dodgers.
They have this depth and that's what fills in these
in these very difficult moments, and that's what's going to

(14:44):
carry them because these guys are going to get hurt,
somebody's going to go down.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
Showy is not going to pitch until.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Shoot, I don't know, July maybe whatever it might be,
but they're still going to be fantastic. They play a
Kiky at first base and he makes a great stretch
there in the last play of the game too, look
like a real first basement. So I it's it's just
it's incredible. A lot of a lot of veterans. They
got some young guys, but they have this thing going
on where it's not they got nice babies coming up

(15:10):
that fill in slots, but they they've done a nice
job supporting with the middle class. They don't pay them
like the middle class, but they have like these really
good baseball players that make them that good.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, and their pitching development. Joe is so good.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
I know we talk a lot about the free agents
that they sign, which is great.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
You have resources to do that.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
But you know, Ben Casparis goes out there hits ninety
eight point five.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
That's the hardest he's thrown.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
They picked up a guy like Anthony Bondo, who's just
a journeyman, been around and around, and he has found
a home with the Dodgers. He was hitting ninety six.
Blake Trinan, How does anybody hit Blake Trinan. I mean,
he's thrown his sinker, Joe at ninety five to ninety
seven with twenty one inches of movement. You got Tanner
Scott now at the back end of the bullpen. You

(15:58):
know he hit ninety eight. You got Landon Nack who's
got a terb spinning four seemer. Guys just can't get
on top of You mentioned your guy Kirby Yates with
a split four seam combination. I mean, they've got everything
covered for every situation. I mean, Dave Roberts just has
so many choices no matter where the game is out,

(16:19):
and he's got so many choices, Joe, they won't be overused.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
You know that. It's not like having depth in the
bullpen exactly.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
When you have that kind of cast right there, you're
not pressed or feel pressed to back guys up back
to back. Definitely not three days in a row, but
you have to have that kind of ability in order
to feel comfortable doing those kinds of things. The most
difficult loss always is the lost late where your bullpen
struggles or falters, and with that, when you get into

(16:47):
those situations, you feel even more pressed to press guys
into service and action, maybe more than you normally would
like to, especially early in the season.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
You don't want to do that.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
So what they've done there again the depth component, Yes,
they could turn to so many different guys. He knows
on a nightly basis, he'll almost I'm talking about Dave,
He'll pop up three or four guys on his list.
We're going to go to these guys tonight. Okay, they pitched,
then we're going to go to these three or four
then almost like the spring training situation where you have
a different group of pitchers you're wanting to pitch on

(17:19):
a nightly basis and feel like as though during the
season you don't have to text anyone.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Let's talk about the game one starters Shota Imanaga was
really good for the Cubs. Craig Counsel got him out
after sixty nine pitches and went to the bullpen. That's
when the game got away. I mean, it's it's the
middle of March. You know, he was right around what
his pitch count was going to be. That's where the
game is. You can sit there all you want and say, well,
he should have left him in. Well, no, it's a

(17:44):
long season. He looked really really good Yoshinobu Yamamoto, Joe.
I mean last year he found it late in the year.
He looked really good. In the World Series, man, he
looked really really good. I'm talking like Cy Young quality stuff.
In that first game, you know, his velow was up.
He's averaging ninety six point eight. That was up almost

(18:07):
two ticks from last year through six different pitches. His
splitter was up two miles an hour, and he had
a forty seven percent with rate on that. I mean,
that's a power split that he's got. He was going
after people, Joe. We didn't see this in the first
part of last year when he made his MLB debut,
But my goodness, I mean I really do think if

(18:30):
he stays healthy, he can contend to win a cy
Young Award.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Well.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
First of all, they are still in spring training, so
that the number of pitches is absolutely correct.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
This is what the middle of March.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
By the time he would have been pitching, like's just say,
the end of March beginning of April, he would have
been stretched out to seventy five eighty five. It would
have been more comfortable going closer to one hundred with him.
So that's just the way of the world right now.
Is going to play a regular season game this early,
They still have to do that.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yamamoto, on the.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Other hand, I think he's a very dangerous cat this year,
meaning that I know how good he is coming into
last year, but right now he is a.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Three.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
I believe he's at level three. I belong to I
can do this. Regardless of how great he had been
in Japan. I still think you come you're walking with
some trepidation unless your show. Hey, although even show I
struggled early on. So I think this guy came here sallow,
this got better year in progress, and I think he's
a very dangerous person this year regarding how great he
can be, because once you arrive at that point, whether

(19:25):
it's in baseball, in any profession, we may exist with
or have to feel like you belong here. Finally, and
I can do this. He's been a different cities. He's
watched how this thing works. I go to the ballpark,
I breathe more easily and part of the group. Right now,
all that stuff matters, So heads up on him. He's
gonna have a great year.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
That's a great point.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
I mean, he really did the body language, the command,
mound presence. It all looks like he's hitting that next level.
We're gonna take a quick break, Joe, and we want
to talk now about Roki Sasaki made his major league debut.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Lot of hype on Roki coming over here.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Obviously, he's signed with the Dodgers as an international free agent,
not nearly as advanced as Yamamoto or even when Showhy
came over here. We'll dive into what the Dodgers have
in Roki Sasaki right after this Welcome back to the

(20:27):
Book of Joe podcast. We're talking about the Major League
baseball season underway. Two games in Tokyo, both won by
the LA Dodgers over the Chicago Cubs. Now, Roki Sasaki
made his major league debut Joe. In game number two,
he showed why his ceiling is super high. I mean
he's he averages ninety eight miles an hour. He hit

(20:48):
one hundred point five, so you know he's got the
fastball velocity. He's got a split that Joe, I think,
I think it's the best splitter on the planet. I
mean he deadens the ball. The spin rate on that
is only like five hundred RPMs. It's just incredible way
back between the two fingers. It's almost like an old
fashioned forkball. It is like almost unhittable. He really doesn't

(21:13):
have a third pitch. He throws a slider that's just
so so, and he barely threw it at all in
the game against the Cubs. So you saw stuff wise, Yeah,
you can dream on this guy. Some other things to
be concerned about Joe. First of all, fastball command is
just not there. He's got a very long arm stroke.

(21:34):
He's actually a little late when he gets that ball
into the loaded position. In other words, when that front
foot lands, the ball is not completely raised at a
ninety degree or less angle. That concerns me a little
bit because especially because he's not a really especially big guy.
I know he's filled out, but he doesn't have the
kind of mature physical body that he's going to grow into.

(21:55):
He's young, he's twenty one, twenty two years old. That's
concerning to me. But the biggest thing to me was
watching his fastball command, and I think some of this
comes from mechanics and the way that he throws. He
came over here Joe admitting he's a work in progress,
and the Dodgers have been very upfront about that. I
think they have to be really, really careful about someone
who's thrown one hundred miles an hour with some you know,

(22:18):
less than perfect mechanics and command issues as well.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Now he threw three innings.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
They got him out after fifty six pitches, and the
Cubs figured out with that split it's so hard to
hit and is typically out of the zone. Don't swing
at it. He threw fifteen, they swung a two of them.
It's out of this It was in the zone only
seven percent of the time. Ninety three percent of the time,
the split's not in the zone. He's got to be
more in the zone with that pitch. He's got enough

(22:45):
moving on it. But the big thing to me, Joe
is watching him pitch right now. If he needs to
throw a fastball, and we saw this in some three
ball counts, he's not able to command that pitch.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
I saw that a little bit with Showy when I
first got to the Angels. Once he found his fastball
come in, everything absolutely took off.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
But as you're saying all this the.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Fastball forkball thing, a, he's got to command his fastball.
And if he's going to be a two pitch pitcher,
which I don't believe is going to be very much longer,
have the experiment with a cutter with him at all?

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Do you know that you know, I have not heard
that he's got an interesting four seamer because it really
depends mostly not so much on ride but run. He's
got a lot of horizontal movement on his four steamer.
So okay, I to me, he's got to tighten his slider.
To me, it's just it rolls. It's it's a little

(23:37):
too slow. I understand what you're saying, Joey, you probably
need something else. You know, he's got the split change obviously,
but it wouldn't surprise me, Joe if he doesn't show
the aptitude or the feel for that slider to just
maybe turn into a cutter, maybe easier to throw right.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
That's that's my point.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
They're going to have to find something that he's going
to be able to find his own with more consistently.
And I've always believed this, I mean the fastball. I mean,
of course you using your wrisk, but sometimes you're just
not on time with that release point. You talked about
what's happening behind him. So if you make or have
a guy work with a cutter where he's gonna manipulate
just how he grips it finger pressure, what he does

(24:17):
at the end of the pitch is just to activate
the wrist in a way that is more consistent. I'm
betting that he's going to end up cutter if they're
going to add that to the list. If the slider
has shown not the aptitude for the slider, it's difficult
to command. And like you've just suggested the break on,
it's just way too inconsistent. He needs something else. I mean,

(24:37):
the command's going to come. I would bet I haven't
really seen a lot of them, so i'd have to
see him in person and know what I'm talking about.
But fastball command, everybody wants it. But if it's if
he's not shown it yet and the armstroke is a
long one and difficult, I would bet they're gonna they're
gonna start thinking cutter, because you can't start thinking curveboy,
you can't start thinking change up. They're way more difficult
to add two if the guy doesn't already have an

(25:00):
idea what's going on the fastball. So I'm betting cutters
going to be at it soon. And I'm also betting
that he's going to find the strikes and with that
a little bit more often that would be like a pitch,
a fastball count pitch, normal fastball count pitch. He may
have to go to the cutter to try to just
learn how to throw that for a strike. And as
you suggested, if there's no command at all with these

(25:20):
harder pitches, they're just going to spit on the forkball.
They're not there are And furthermore, with the forkball, that
only concerns me a little bit if it's like way
back in his hand. And I know Japanese culture, the
shootou and all these other they're really big into throwing
a split or a real forkball. It's always that's always
a concern when you split your fingers like that and
what it means. I know there may be some that disagree,

(25:42):
but my experience has been a lot of guys that
throw hard. When I was back in the day, I
had some guys in the minor leagues, we had a
lot of forkballs, and a lot of these guys. It
wasn't necessarily Tommy John at that time, but ended up injured,
so I'd be concerned about that. I'm betting on cutter
command to cutter, work on the fastball command and then
play with the forkball off of that. Sounds like maybe

(26:04):
an immediate future kind of a fix.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, listen, it's one start, and I don't want to
put too much on the results of what we saw
from Sasaki.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
It's definitely going to get better.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
I mean, if Shohy was talking about being nervous before
this game, imagine if you're Sasaki, You're making your major
league debut back in your home country, all kinds of
eyes on you. Just imagine the anxiety, the nerves. Even
He'll be fine in that regard. The good news for
the Dodgers is, you know, his velocity last year in
Japan was down a couple of ticks. And it's back,

(26:35):
There's no question about it. One of the reasons he
chose the Dodgers because they're so good at developing pitchers.
He wanted to get better, and he's in the right
place to get better. I think he's really going to
be at times very very dominant. But I think you're
going to see the Dodgers be extremely careful with him,
more than any other starter that they have. You know,

(26:58):
Dave Roberts has these options in the bullpen we talked
about Joe. That really helps because when he gets the ball,
you want to deep bullpen behind him to cover five
six innings if.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
You have to.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
But I think he's there's going to be times where
he's going to look absolutely unhittable. If he throws his
fastball for a strike, commands his fastball and gets you
in a two strike count, you're done. So I think
he's gonna have some really high strikeout games. Even if
it's not seven eight innings, he'll go on some runs.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to watching all that.
These are the kind of guys as a developmental person, coach, manager,
are really exciting. This is the kind of project you'd
love to get your hands on. I'm certain he's he's
a wonderful young man. I'm certain he's very humble. I'm
certain he listens very well. It's just it's part of
the culture. Anytime you have a player from Japan, they've

(27:50):
always been among the most respectful guys I've ever manager coached.
So you got that going in his favor. And then
it's just a matter of the plan that they create.
And of course they have a plan, and of course
they've talked about the cutter different things. I'm not bringing
this up as though it's something new. They have all this.
They got all this in their little playbook. There's no
doubt about it. And the fact that they can be

(28:12):
patient with it is really really important. So I just
set that play out. And again, just like we're talking
about a Momoto, I mean, this guy's got to feel
like he belongs to he can do this, being as
young as he is. And they've even admitted the Dodgers
coming into it, that he has a work in progress.
So all these things have been laid out. It's nothing new.
Like you suggested, they got the plan. I'm just saying
from my perspective, what I'm hearing is I'm betting on

(28:34):
a cutter being added or talked about or even tried
To this point, I'm just curious to see how it
plays out.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Let's talk about the Cubs.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
We know how much you'd like Kyle Tucker and I
certainly look at that Cubs lineup now and say, wow,
you know, they've got a big bat in the middle
there which they had lacked before, good complimentary type players.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
But listen, coming out of the gate, it doesn't get
any easier.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
I mean, they go from seeing this Dodger pitching staff
to when the season starts, seeing the Arizona Diamondbacks, where
you're gonna see Zach Gallon, Corbyn Burns, Merril Kell, Duardo Rodriguez.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
I mean they're up against they coming out of the gate.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Your quick impressions on the Cobs, well, I think are
definitely an improved team. But offensively, I still have some
concerns about depth here. Basically, they need Pete Crow Armstrong
to be a better offensive player, and he's young players,
so you can you can almost count on that, and
Dansby Swanson to break out and be the kind of

(29:29):
player he was in Atlanta a couple of years ago. Offensively,
because I just don't see right now they have a
deep lineup.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, I can't disagree with that. I do like Armstrong
the lock though. You gotta love that athletic is athletics,
athletics ism, he's I watched to watch that inside the
Park home run.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
I watched it. We haveter fly balls.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Looks like he got some serious popp He's just a wiry,
strong guy and he's very exciting, so that that just
needs some time. He's still young. Swanson on the other hand,
I mean they brought him in not just for his defense,
but he has some offensive ability too, and that has
like that double down the line was really nice, and
that's what he's capable of doing. He's I think a

(30:09):
good start with him is really important. I think if
he gets off to a good start, you're going to
see him maintain that during the course of the year.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
I've seen him really good in the past.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
He's a really good heavy ball players, are winning kind
of a ball player, so I think he'll get his
feet on the ground with all of that. I think
Ian Happa is a big part of this. I mean Happer,
you know, HAPs been there for a while and Hap's
kind of like a leader in the clubhouse there, and
when he gets on a roll, he's he could be.
He's pretty darn good. He's pretty darn good, better from

(30:37):
the left side than the right side. And even when
I had him back then, I said he defined Mickey Mantle.
I know that's an overreach, but my point was not
very big. But my god, when he hits the ball,
when he gets when he squares it up, it goes
far and he gets small fast.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
So I among all of.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Those guys, if he's gonna hit on the top, a
lot of it's going to center around him. He's got
a good eye at the plate. He's made some adjustments.
He used to swing straight up in the air and
he's leveled that off pretty well. Was elevated fastballs devastating him.
But I think he's made some nice adjustment. So I
think a lot of that is with Happer. If Happer
could really gain a level of consistency and set the tone.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
For that entire lineup, that could be a big part
of it. On the right side. See, the thing is,
he always wanted to move him to the right side.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
He's become more functional there, I think, but it's a
different it's a different hitter. Completely from the right the
left side, it is serious pop heads up. Every time
he swings the bat the right side, He's got pop,
but it's it's just a different swing.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
It's not as fluid.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
So a lot of I think they are keys right
there offensively, and I'm pulling for him. I really like
you and a lot I'd like to see if he
could get that thing going and really stabilize him at
the top of the batting order.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
That would mean a lot to their production.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Well, I know this, Their defensive outfield is probably the
best in baseball. Ian happened left yep Hecrow Armstrong and
center Kyle Tucker and right Oh my goodness. It doesn't
get much better than that. Yeah, I think the Cubs,
there's no doubt this team. I think that the division
is open there in the NAST in League Central. No
disrespect to Milwaukee because they always are going to be
the mix, But the Cubs have played themselves and spent

(32:10):
themselves back into the mix, There's no question about it.
It may be a tough start offensively though, coming out
of the gate with the draw getting Arizona after the
LA Dodgers. Just happy too, Joe, that these games are
played over there in Japan, where baseball means so much.
I mean, it's just so rewarding to some of the
best fans on this planet, the way they just cherished

(32:32):
the game of baseball. You know, you saw it in
the crowd there, you know, just the excitement, all the
gear that people were wearing.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
You know, go back to last year in the World Series.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
When you had Otani and Yamamoto in the World Series,
the first two games of the World Series, and remember
the games there being.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Broadcast at about six am in the morning.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
They did better ratings for those first two World Series
games than in America in prime time. Now, the overall
number in the US, the number was higher, but the
level of interest in Japan off the charts. The World
Series ratings actually in Japan in the morning outrated the
NBA Finals. Again, we're talking about breakfast with baseball, and

(33:15):
people's days are just beginning, and more people in Japan
are watching the World Series in America than actually Americans
are watching the NBA Finals.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
So it's great that baseball goes over there.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Plays these games, not exhibitions, but actual live regular season
championship games being played in Japan, and it didn't disappoint
It was everything I thought be a great spectacle.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
So congratulations to MLB for having these games over there.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, it's a different group, man. My personal experiences with
Japanese baseball and job I've not been there, but even
back in the eighties, the Tokyo Giants instruction League team
would come over to Arizona to play an instructional league
and I got to make some really good friendships back
there in the eighties, Pseudo Sun manager, Pseudo and I

(34:05):
became good friends. He's been part of the Tokyo Giant
organization for a while. The thing that I loved about
playing against them, and I still think it's it's prominent now.
I mean, they really strive to be fundamentally sound baseball players.
Sometimes in their methods are really a little bit extreme.
They have different kind of drills. They'll be throwing simultaneous

(34:27):
batting practice on the same field. You know, baseball is
flying all over the place. They're really they're really harsh
in a way regarding if you're not playing it well, man,
they're gonna.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
Make you practice.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
And I'm not saying that's good or bad, and sometimes
it might be a little bit too much, but there's
a dedication to the game. Wow, that's it's not just
about spin rate and you know tech. I think there's
still a high level of concern about playing the game
fundamentally right. At least that's my perception. I have been
around them enough more recently to know that. And I

(34:59):
think the Japanese baseball fan is a very sophisticated baseball fan.
I mean, they love stars, there's no question about that,
but they inherently just love the game for the sake
of the with the way the game is and how
it's being played, and they won a nice clean version
of the game of baseball. And I'll tell you their
their coaches and managers demand that. So I don't know how.

(35:20):
I think it just ties into the discipline of the
culture somehow too. I don't know that they're looking for
a lot of changes in the game necessarily to enjoy it.
I think they really enjoy the brand that we experienced
for years and they fell in love with. And I
think you know that maybe there there's no football, there's
no NBA there per se. I mean, this is their sport.

(35:41):
There's not as many distractions from other leagues. And I'm
you know, kids just liking the Dominican or Puerto Rico.
They're going up to be baseball players, and kids going
up into Japan outside of you know, there's a couple
of outlier sports obviously, but they want to be baseball players.
That's that's that's what I believe. So it's you know,
it's like the United States maybe I don't know, thirty
forty years ago, but it's not advancing in that regard.

(36:04):
It's just there's that died in the wool interested in
the game. And my experience has been great, and I
love competing against them because they're coming after you, and
they're going to come after you playing the game hard
and correctly.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's funny that you said that shoe, because I was
over there for the Nippon World Series in nineteen ninety
four when Baseball had no World Series because of the strike.
So I got my Baseball World Series fixed over there,
and I had the impression I was watching baseball in
the US in the fifties and sixties just a very well, fundamental,

(36:37):
disciplined game and nothing was overproduced. Like you go to
a game now and I get it. I mean, the
music will just make your ears ring, and there's never
a moment of silence between pitches. That there's so much
cacophony going on, and you know, people just they our
attention spans have gotten so short. The idea that there's

(37:00):
actually a little bit of silence to think is a
athetical now. And when I was over there, Yeah, they
have bands in the outfield and they have you know,
play individual songs for every hitter.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I mean, I'm not saying it's a library.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
What I'm saying, though, is people are watching the game
and paying attention to the game. And it wasn't overproduced.
They weren't putting up signs saying cheer, make noise. Just
this pure love of the game. That's that was my
takeaway from it.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, and that's what I haven't been there more recently,
and I'm just watching. When I watched the Spectacle on TV,
you know, you see the fans, they got their placers.
We had the thundersticks back in the day with the Angels.
I think we derived that from Japanese baseball Major League baseball.
It's just it's a pure form. It's like it's like
Division two football, you know, it's something. It's just a

(37:50):
more a more pure form of the game. Like you're saying,
less stressed up. It probably wears jeans a little bit more.
And you know, it's just it's just a more gritty,
blue collar kind of a game because it's demanded. It's demanded,
and that I don't want to overstate that in a
sense because I don't know exactly, you know, from front
office side of the Japanese baseball with they're demanding, and

(38:11):
I don't know how deep their analytics go over there.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
I don't I can't speak for that. I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
But when I'm saying, just observationally and as an opponent
to these guys, it was so cool, man, because they came.
They're coming after you, and they're coming after you the
right way. And again I'm going back in time a
little bit. I can see that.

Speaker 4 (38:30):
But when I.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Watched them, when you watch them when they're competing against us,
even a look at the the WBC, man, I mean,
they maybe they don't have the natural power the a
lot of the American guys who maybe it's although look
at show, He's got as much power as anybody. But
they play a more pure form of the game. They
play Division two and I love that.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Hey, listen where are that time of year right now, Joe,
that the other twenty eight teams are still reducing their
roster size. And I know you've gone through this as
a manager, when you have to tell guys that they
didn't make the team.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
It's never easy.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
There was a story at a book Baltimore with Brandon
Hyde that I want to get your take on. We
can talk about that right after this break on the
Book of Joe.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Joe.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
I love getting your insights on some of the things
that fans and we as reporters don't see, and that
is literally behind closed doors sometimes when you have to
tell a guy that he hasn't made the team. In Baltimore,
they have a real top prospect named Kobe Mayo, corner
infield guy.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
He's twenty three years old. He's absolutely teared it up
in Triple A.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
He's got big time powers, a lot of swing and
missing his game, but you know he's got major league
power and he's going to be an impact hitter.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
In the big leagues.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
But they're sending him back down the Triple A. And listen,
he had a little bit of a cameo cup of coffee.
Last year with the Orioles seventeen games and basically did nothing.
He ninety eight, struck out more than a third of
the time. And then this year in spring training and
you know, I know it's spring training and result results

(40:12):
really don't matter, but when you're trying to make the team,
you know, this is what you go by.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
He hit won ninety and again a bunch of punchouts
as well, so.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
They're sending him down and he's like, you know, this
is really not fair, he said, because now they're going
to send me back to Triple A and this is
a lose lose situation for me.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
That's what he called it, a lose lose situation. Because
if he goes.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Down there and he's already proved you get it in
triple A, people are going to say, well, it's triple A.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
You're you're expected to hit in Triple A. You've done
it before, we expect you.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
And if you don't hit in triple A, people are
gonna say, I don't know about Kobe Mayo. Man, It's
it's like the bloom is off the rose. So I'm
sure you've been here before, Joe.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Where you guy?

Speaker 1 (40:53):
He feels like he's got nothing left to go prove
in Triple A. But as Brandon said, you know that
means we're a good ball club if you've got major
league ability and we're sending you back to Triple A.
You know, So give me your take on what it
takes when you've got a guy you know is a
big league player. I don't think that's in question, but
he's just right now doesn't fit with the team, the

(41:14):
major league team.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Be honest with him, Just tell him exactly that, tell
him exactly why you're sending him back down.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
And I've been through that.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
I'm not going to name the player's name, but I
had to sit down almost an identical situation, and the
player kind of referenced triple as being a kiddie league
or something to that effect, little league, and I just had.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
To look back at him, and I I stayed with the.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
Conversation that we had created because just had to be
honest with them. Just we thought there was more work
to be done, We had enough on the major league level,
and we be very specific, what do we have to do?
And it's disingenuous to suggest that I have nothing left
to prove in Triple A. I think that's what we're
teaching kids today because everybody wants to get to the

(42:00):
big league so quickly. I'm sure Baltimore and Hyder mapped
it out from specifically what they want him to work on.
And furthermore, we're trying to win in the big leagues
until you're ready to help us win. Unless we're in
a rebuild mode, that'd be different. If Baltimore still a rebuild,
you bring him up, you put him in the outfield.
If you believe he's that good, let him play, play,
play because it doesn't really matter. But they're in a
situation where it does matter. And when they bring him up,

(42:22):
they need to know what to expect. If they think
they could throw somebody out there on a nightly basis,
that's going to outproduce this fella. Now maybe even in
the future. You got to stay with that, but you
got to be honest when you have that honest conversation.
When you walk out of the room, he might not
like you, but eventually, hopefully he's that good. He's going

(42:42):
to come back and he's going to appreciate the fact
that he can trust your honesty when you're speaking to him.
So guys like that didn't bother me as much, quite frankly,
because they're not out of a job. You're not sending
them home. We have Kenny Grant in our book, Kenny
Grant's been on our podcast. Kenny Grant was a minor
league player with the Angels back in the day, and
I had to release Kenny. But I knew Kenny was

(43:03):
going home, back to Patterson, New Jersey. He wasn't just
going back to the minor leagues off a big league roster.
Different when you're like shattering dreams and sending kids home,
that's one thing.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
But you're sending a big leaguer.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Back down to Triple A because obviously there's things he
needs to get done.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
I never felt badly about that.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
I think it's it's made way too easy for some
of these guys today and they need to spend more time,
right But you're gonna understanding their their craft better, so
obviously be striking out that much.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
We've got there's work to be done here. Figure it
out and if.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
They if they wrap, if they specifically tell him that,
and in that way, it's up to him now to
make the adjustments necessary to get back up here and
prove to them they'll see They'll know it's Triple A,
but they'll see within the swing, Uh, the adjustments are
being made that they're going to feel good about. Whether
it's Chase Chase up, Chase breaking ball down in a way,

(43:56):
more more disciplined on these certain pitches. Uh, maybe the
swing's been a little bit too uphill. Whatever they whatever
that may be that they know is being the issue
regarding non success on a major league level.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
They'll see that in Triple A beyond the numbers and
know it might be time to bring him back up.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, and listen, I have no problems with what Kobe
Mayo said. You know, you want a guy to be
disappointed that he didn't make the team. Sure, you don't
want to be happy with that. And the fact that
he expressed it, well, that's what happens when you know
the reporters are there, They ask you a question after
you've just been punching in the gut. Essentially, I have
no problem with that. This is the guy, you know,
And listen, He's played one hundred and fifty one games

(44:34):
in Triple A. It's not like he just got there
in the middle or late last year. Two seventy nine
batting average three seventy six, on base five point forty
three slug So he has produced. I mean, those nint
numbers translate to major league success, and it doesn't guarantee it,
but I get where he's coming from. My question for you, Joe,

(44:54):
is when you look at spring training, right, how do
you evaluate that? Because I go back, the Mets used
to have this outfielder named Darren re six one one
ninety good looking player, outfielder could fly, hit with power.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
He would tear up spring training.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
I mean he would just rake, and you're thinking, man,
this guy's gotta be a great major league ballplayer.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
He never was.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I mean he got into a little more than eighty
major league games, hit a buck eighty three. So when
you look at spring training, especially from the offensive side,
what are you supposed to make of these numbers?

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Joe?

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Well, if a guy, if a guy has shown it
to me in the past, like a good minor league season,
just suggesting that he has had good minor league seasons.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
Although what league do they play in? The Triple A?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Is that that's on East Coast? Isn't it for the Baltimore?

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (45:49):
He is at Norfolk Norfolk, So.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
You know there's I would subtract almost at least I
don't at least thirty forty points off the on base percentage,
even more maybe seventy five points off slugging all that
other stuff the ops, because there's it's just different.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
The pitchers are not that good.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah, you're right, you're right. Let me end you're right.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
You're right, because especially now, a lot of teams keep
their better prospects in Double A and Triple A is
A is a big offensive level at this point.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
The pitching just is really the better arms Actually you're
in double.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yeah, you have to really consider all that. The thing
that really stands out to me.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Conversations the conversations with the Oriole coaches in the spring
training have to lead to that somehow this decision, somehow conversationally,
what he says and how he says it, is he
ready his ability to retain this information and make this adjustments.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
Is he doing that? Is he ready?

Speaker 3 (46:40):
I would I don't even know, but I would bet,
like you just if we walked into the stands and
he's having in that bat and somebody's throwing the ball
pretty well, like I'll just say ninety five, ninety six
and the bat's late.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
It's late. So why do I all of.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
A sudden believe that Bat's going to be on time
when he gets to a major league game in Baltimore
in about a month. These are there's like little nuanced
stuff that I got to see. I got to see
from my very own eyes to believe that he's to
be able to make this jump from Triple A to
the big leagues. That's the biggest jump there is. And
like you're suggesting, and again, I've been there around there
enough to know that double A is filled with more

(47:14):
or better arms than Triple A is. So there's this
success on the triple A level does not it does
not light me up, quite frankly. There's a lot. There's
a lot going on there. There's the like you said,
the caliber of competition, the number of teams available, the
number of players playing. I mean, all this stuff has
been diminished. And I know that there's a small percentage

(47:36):
that always makes the big leagues. And it's everybody talks
about the higher draft choices, you know, I because they
only have higher draft choices.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
So I I just I think a lot of this
is conversational anecdotal among the staff.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
I think this guy in spring training is not showing
them what they need to see to feel comfortabout him
going to the regular season. I need to see with
my own eyes, man, And I would bet I don't
know this, but I would bet he's laid on a
fastball right now.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
That'd be my bet.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
So let's get back to the results wise.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
As a major league manager, you're watching spring training and
you know you have all the numbers, batting averages on
based lugging whatever.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
You're buying or selling stock based on that.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
No, because I know a lot of times, most of
the times you know this, Joe, pitchers are not pitching
to detailed scouting.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Reports the way they do in the regular season.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Regular season, man, they're breaking down everybody before a game.
They're not doing that to the back end of a
triple A roster for a spring training start where you're
trying to get your work in.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
So the steaks are a little bit different, I'll say.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
And in spring training you also have some of the
issues in Arizona with the dry weather, the daytime there,
and the ball's a little slicker, all these other factors.
But based on buying or selling stock on results, Joe
and spring training how would you describe it?

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Zero, I was fulled years ago by Bill Robinson Junior.
Great kid had a terrible season a year before. In
a ball comes to camp and it's six homers in
a very limited time in our spring training, and I
mean we were playing at Genoautry Park. Those are big yards,
and all of a sudden, oh, here he comes Freddy
Freddy Carter, Joe Carter's brother, love Freddy Carter, big spring training,

(49:13):
big numbers, first at bat and palm spring. The ball
goes with left center field fence in a big yard.
That's his last home und of the season. You just
can't count on this stuff. It's completely different, the level
of competition, the feelings of thoughts. Real baseball players don't
really start playing baseball well, I don't think to at
least two weeks into the season. That's when they really
get their feet on the ground. So if you're gonna

(49:33):
make some hey early, you're gonna you're gonna feast on
a lot of situations that are kind of abnormal that
you're not gonna see during the regular season. In regards
to ability, really ability, whether it's sharpness of pitchers, sharpness
of hitters, whatever, So I don't. I don't really swear
I swear I don't place any I don't.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
I'm sorry to say.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
But if a young I've talked about this, we talked
about this earlier. When you go to camp twenty six
man roster, a good team should know twenty four of
the twenty six, maybe with twenty five out of the
twenty six guys they won on that teamers are going
to be on that team when we break camp.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
You should know that.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
If you go in there with a cattle call and
you're trying to fill out roster spots and who should
be on this team, you're not good. And that would
be different. It's a totally different process. I did that
with the Rays Devil Raised my first year or so,
completely different process. But when you go to camp knowing
all pretty much who's going to be on this team,
that's when you're pretty good. And for this guy here,
he's been a bubble guy from the moment they walked

(50:29):
into camp for them, he's probably never been on the
team based on what he had done last year going
out of camp. So no, I have zero confidence in
a spring training number, especially if the guy that we're
going off to what he did in the big Lee's
year before was not good, and then he comes to
camp and it's not good. So why do I expect
a different result.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
I can always count on you, Joe. You always have
an anecdote. I like you dropped the Bill Robinson Junior
on me.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yeah, bomb six bombs at gene Autry Park is huge
and the wind blows in a lot. He's popping him
out and left central man and yeah, then Freddy Freddie Carter,
wonderful Jac's brother, My god, love Freddy Carter. He hit
a bomb and palm springs another big yard up by
the scoreboard and left center.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
That was it for the year. I thought, here we go,
because I was working with the hitting coach. We got this.
No we didn't.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Well, I can always count on you to bring us
to a conclusion here with something that's both appropriate and wise.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
So what do you have teed up to end today's podcast.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Well, at the beginning of the season was my motivation here,
and I was thinking about spring trainings obviously, and even
not just spring trainings, because I would start my stuff
well in advance of that. Kenny Revis and I would
sit down and I would like go over my opening day,
talk to the pictures and catchers and the whole the
entire team. I would sit with Kenny, and then Kenny
would pop me into his class at cal State Fullerton

(51:54):
or he got me up at Long Beach State the
dirt Bags. I'd go into their clubhouse that I'll be
in this beautiful blair Field.

Speaker 4 (52:02):
I love blair Field, and.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
I would, you know, sit at the one end of
this narrow clubhouse and I would I would go over
what I'm gonna go over with my team with whether
it was the was with all the way back with
the Rays and then the Cubs and in eventually with
the Angels again. So it's preparation kind of stuff, you know,
And and that's what you're doing right now. You're trying
your best laid plans. And I so I went with
that was my my topic before we got started today

(52:27):
in my head based on and there's so many good ones.
But this is why I guess I'm delaying this a
bit because there's so much good stuff, and it's I'm
gonna just start with Abraham Lincoln. Uh, give me six
hours to chop down a tree, and I'll spend the
first four sharpening the axe. You know that's it's true.
I mean trying to get to this particular that's right.

(52:47):
It's it's all prep. Good good fortune is what happens
when opportunity meets planning. Mister Edison, uh Warren Buffett, I
love this one. Someone's sitting in the shade today because
someone planted a tree a long time ago. I mean,
this is this is what's going on right now, and
that's what you have to understand. I mean, people are
breaking camp right now soon, and there's a lot of

(53:09):
prep and time and thought and back and forth that
goes into this moment. And it really is for me,
it should be gear to getting off to a good start,
and that's that's really important, if you could get off
to a good start, because you're gonna snink at some point,
and if you get off to that good start, it
kind of hides it. But if you get up on
a bad start, it's very difficult to hide a bad moment.
You're always grinding the gears to try to get back

(53:30):
to five hundred and then above that. So this is
the planning time of the year. This is when everybody
thinks they're good, and some really are and some it's
just they're just fooling themselves. But that's that's what this
time of the year means to me. It's about planning,
sharpening the acts, you know, planning the shade tree a
couple of years ago, which you know, like different teams

(53:51):
have done in regards to their their four year plan
or their.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
Five year plan. But that's it, and that's that to me.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Was one of the most fun parts about what I've
done in the game was the planning, whether it was
my scouting, whether it's my minor league stuff. With planning
spring instructional league, spring training, the planning individual plans for
the players, having the meetings with them individually to go
over exactly what we believe that they are right now
where we like to see them go, and then you

(54:18):
give them ideas on how to do that. I mean,
you just don't tell them that they need to get
better at something. You have to tell them how you
think thinking. It's like going to the doctor. I don't
want to go to the doctor and have the doctor
ask me, well, what do you think what do you
think we should do here? No, I want you to
tell me what I think you think I should do here.
So that's that's got to be thought out. And I
never took that lightly, man, I took that very seriously.

(54:39):
And now if there's anything I miss about it as
much as anything, is that it's the putting, putting things
together and then watching them blossom and grow. And it's
not just about x's and o's. It's about nurturing the
relationships and creating an atmosphere a culture that people want
to walk through that door on a daily basis and

(55:00):
get after it because they love being there. That all
that stuff is important. That's what this should be all about.
This time of the year. I'm just giving you an
insight into what I thought going into spring training.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
That's great stuff, Joe, really is, especially at this time
of year because, as you know, the other twenty eight teams,
they're at that point now where they're finishing off their
prep before opening Day. Listen to prep never ends throughout
the course of the season. You're prepping before Game seven
of the World Series. But in terms of getting your
team ready for the grind of a regular season, that
clock is ticking the next week obviously, Joe. You know,

(55:32):
it's a huge time to really bring the team together.
There's a lot of kind of practice work and calling
of rosters and kind of a there's almost a laziness
that can happen in spring training, but you're sharpening that
act at this point here with a week to go.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
A laziness, and I understand what you're saying is kind
of a nice relaxed attitude, but there's got to be
an emphasis. I mean, almost every camp I've ever run,
from the time nineteen eighty two, I think might have
been my first one. You know, the number one emphasis
I had for the offense, the players. Number one base running.
Every year, that was it. And we used to start
every drill, every practice with base running or base running

(56:12):
drills of some form, even to the point we had
our stretch. Kevin McNair was our base running, our speed
coordinator in the nineteen eighties, we had one of those.
We were trying to run better, faster, better starts through
better form, and I had I had Kevin develop three
four four different routines. There was Monday, Wednesday, Monday, Thursday, Tuesday, Friday, Wednesday, Saturday,

(56:38):
and then Sunday was an easy day.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
We called it a moving worm up. But I wanted
the worm up done on.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
The basis, so in other words, you go out there
on the bases and you do your stretching, but then
you get up and you there'll be some kind of
baseball skill involvement going from first to third as we're
working on our skills in regards to better form running.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
So this goes back to the eighties. So whatever you got,
whatever you want to.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Emphas size, which I've always, like I said, was always
base running with pitchers. It was defense you got to
do at the beginning, beginning of the day as often
as you possibly can. Because whatever you do at the
beginning of the day, this must be really important. They
start thinking and then eventually it becomes important and they
do it really well.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
So that's just an example.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
So I love, like you said, the laziness of it,
but that's when you put your emphasis in and don't
let up, man, don't let up on that emphasis, because
the moment you do, it's going to go away.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Great stuff, Joe.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Then, Ancient League Baseball season is underway and the Dodgers
they look as good as advertised. We'll see you next
time on the Book of Joe.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Take care of Tommy, Thanks Buddy.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
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