#559 - Chuck D

Interview with Chuck D on The Bootleg Kev Podcast.

Full video version of the episode is available on YouTube!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yo, Chuck, do you right here?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
You could check me out of Public Enemy on the
Bootleg CAV podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
Hey, before we start the episode, we're gonna remind everybody, man,
we got one of the biggest radio shows in the country,
syndicated in almost one hundred cities all over. Shout out
to iHeartRadio. All right, some of the latest cities that
we've been able to add. Man, I want to give
a shout out to ninety three point nine to beat
in Honolulu. That's right, Hawaii, We over there going crazy.
I also want to give a shout out Hot ninety

(00:27):
eight three and Tucson. Shout out to Tucson going crazy.
Also want to give a shout out to Wild ninety
four one in Tampa going crazy. We just got Richmond.
We also just got the good folks in Bakersfield at
Hot one O four seven. So we're going crazy on
the radio with my partner James Andre Jefferson Junior for
the BOOTLEGKEV Show. So make sure you tune in and

(00:48):
you can listen anywhere on that iHeart Radio app. That's right,
let's get into the interview. Bootleg CAB Podcasts special guest
one of the greats. This guy. I mean listen, when
I say he's a living legend, I mean that is
we got Chuck d Man, one of the most important

(01:08):
figures in music history.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, I'm grateful to be invited in your palace.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Look at this man.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yes, I don't know if it's it's a palace. It's
just you know, it's just a hang you know. No, it'sace.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I'm you know, and these are thrones, man, So I'm
glad to be invited on it.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
You know, we met in the lobby outside. I was like,
I actually met you when I was a kid.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
I grew up with Raka Iris Science is a little
brother from Dilated. So every time Dilated would come to Arizona,
I would go hang out with Rock and Evidence and
Baboo and those guys. And they opened up for you
on tour Lack Delicious.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Man, it was a nice tour. And really and you
said you met me at fourteen.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, I don't know if I was fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I was.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
It was in that somewhere arranged and I remember Raka
introduced me to you, and I was just like, yo,
this is because I read your book probably the year
prior to that, you know, you used to get dropped
off at the library as a kid, and then you
just find ship and then it was like yo, Chuck
D's got a book.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah yeah, I've had ten cents. So it's been this
incredible full circle. Got a project with Death Jam and
here I Am and you know keV spot Man.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, the new album is it's dope because it's like
it's got a real theme and uh, you know, you
got people kind of like I like I was listening,
I ran through it last night. You got some legends
checking in, like King T's got a quick like what
up on there?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
And then and jag Fu Front and uh, you know
Damage and you got Daddy Oh and we got Miranda
Rights and also people like phielmost Chill and drops from
King like you said, King T and school e D
and school d Man. So you know, you know what
it is radio radio I'm again. It is almost like

(02:54):
it's like a radio station full of Paul's Boutigue meets
DJ Shadow with Woo Tang hanging outside getting ready to
fight security, dypt in acid. It ain't even meant to be,
like bro, It's like it's not meant to even be
like you know, it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
It is like there is like a now that you
say the DiPT in acid part, like if I was
tripping a little, I feel like the album would have
been a lot, like really intense.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it's it's like it had no beginning, no end
to it, like if you took it and got to
a stream of ice.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
I'm saying it's the last interview I did.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
If you took it and put it in a shuffle,
it would make no difference, right, It's like it could
pick up and lead it has. Yeah, it has no
beginning to end and you know, like you know, like
when they had the Lamb and they shave it off
for Jiro's Yes, that's why these are not singles that
come off with they like like like slices, right, So

(03:48):
you know, I mean the whole thing about Radio arm Again.
I got to give props number one too, my guy,
my partner, my record label. We were all super independent
throughout the years. So the props go out to Sea Doc,
and Sea Doc is like the Brian Eno of hip
hop because he understood. He comes under the tutelage of
learning the bomb squad beat changes in sudden left turns,

(04:12):
and I think his toolbox in twenty twenty five, is
now usable and gets through all the legalities, which is
the hardest thing to make any of these type of
records in a major company is the legalities. And he's
figured out that way with today's toolbox. To figure that
way of that particular style, you don't really hear a
lot of beat changes underneath its.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
M sees no more because you have clearance issues, yes,
the clearance so your.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Creations and your whole way you pull it from what
you create, and all that has to be a different
and he's figured I'm telling you in twenty twenty five,
he's a Brian eno a hip hop and rap music
right now because his toolbox is something I think other
people are gonna mimic.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Can you Because I've been saying this, I've said this
in a bunch of interviews, but I feel like, first
of all, the timing for an album right now, just
where the world is from Chuck d I feel like
the timing is amazing. I feel like we But what
I always say is, I don't know. You know, when
I was growing up, we had you know, the Mortal technique,

(05:18):
and the generation before was public Enemy and and you
know there was such thing as conscious hip hop, you knows,
and revolutionary hip hop is. And I feel like, you know,
there's still some guys doing it, but they're still like
I think a Killer Mike, you know, guys like that.
But Killer Mike's a OG now, you know. But I

(05:39):
always say, like, man, it sometimes its a little disheartening
because there's not uh, there's not. I don't know where
that energy is for the kids these days who are
hip hop fans.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, they listen with their eyes. They listened with their
eyes first. You know, you're probably the last part of
the generation that listen with your ears. And that's why
Enemy Radio which is the which is the particular act
that has done radio armageddon. It's like the mc DJ
component of Public Enemy. So my my MC style on

(06:11):
it is not really conventional. It's almost like the MC
that introduces the rapper. Yeah yeah, so I might come
off with an orthodox wild you know, Warpe style, but
that style is so different in different parts. It's not
even meant to be judged because it's going to introduce.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
It's kind of like your interpolation, would you say of like.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Don cornelis on acid.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Right, like doing the like the radio DJ in the
Chuck D Way, I mean.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah yeah, and in public Enemy, if that something comes
up out of it, it's going to be Chuck d
Plavor flame like it.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
You know. Like that is so you know, to come
on Enemy Radio.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
The first and foremost is the mcs, the rappers, and
also the DJs, because there's a few DJs on it,
like m Rock Our Chicago. He's just like just nasty
DJs and sometimes you know, and I'm in right here,
you know, in Los Angeles, Los Angeles, and like Bootleg

(07:14):
cavn on you guys are more DJ centric anyway. Yeah,
we are a big DJ town.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
The beat junkies, mixed Master Mike and you know, the
scratch Pickles. I feel like West Coast in general, California.
We love, we love, we love our turntable lists.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yes, yes, and and this is like a homage to that.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
And also you know, like we've always had great turntable
lists and DJs always in our sight.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
But we come from radio, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
So people that that peeled off of us from Terminator X, well,
I was able to be with def Jam and do
the first compilation albums with the Terminate I produced the
first two Terminator X albums and then we had DJ
Lord with us for twenty years.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Was now the DJ Cypress Hill the greatest group in
the world. Shout out to Cypress Hill. Yeah you be
real and Tom. You guys had a cool that's a
good four year run.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
He be real, Tom Morello, you know, Brad Wilt, Timmy
c and also DJ Lord.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
So yeah, I mean that was that had to be
profits of rage, man, that was that was something that
was a ball. Yeah, No, that that was sick. I
just remember like hearing about it and when it first
got announced, I was like, wait a minute. So it's
like Rage against the Machine, but with Chuck d and
b Real.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Like and DJ Lord too, it's like the Lord is
the one that really capped up because those musicians did
not know how to put a turntables into their conversation.
You know, Brad on drums, Tom on guitar making DJ
sounds and also Timmy on bass, the funkiest bass player

(08:51):
ever in rock. But DJ Lord is a monster and
he can make a turntable sound like a guitar as
Tom was making a guitar sound a turntable. So Lord
Lord with them was really a four piece unit as
opposed to you know his three guys in a band
and three band members and a turntable.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Can you take me back to when you guys first
get with def Jam. You guys are are doing something
that nobody had really done before on that level in
terms of the subject matter and the and the content
that was.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
We was Kevin's just because we were older, that's all.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
But I'm saying like was there because these days it
feels like if you talk about certain shit, there's an
uphill challenge in terms of whether or not, like maybe
the label will be like, hey, maybe shit tone this down.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Maybe.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Did you guys deal with any of that?

Speaker 1 (09:42):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
We never dealt with racism coming at us. We never
dealt with somebody telling us what to do. Rick Rubin
begged me kind of and asked me to do records
for two years. So once I agreed, it's a different understanding, right,
you know what I'm saying. I mean I would turn
down calls from Rick Rubin to my house, like I
don't want to do records. We wanted to do radio.
So I'm automatically My first day is not a jubilation.

(10:06):
It was surrender.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
We couldn't do the radio dreams.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
But you know, fast forward, I have rap Station, which
is twelve station app and it apps are hard to make.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
They are.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
That cheap thing and now and not easy to make
because you had the world of glitches and you got
the realm of security. So we built rap Station, which
is twelve station channels all with rap. These of hip
hop dedicated for sixteen years now, but the app has
been built for five and then to bring the Noise app,
which is really the really the trend set of there.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Dude. I always wonder like when you have, like like
you have a couple of the greatest hip hop albums
of all time and under your belt, like when you
guys are getting ready to release it takes a nation
of millions to.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Hold this back.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Do you guys understand like how fucking good it is
and like how it might change everything?

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, I have interviews that said I'm making the what's
going on in rap music months before we put it right,
so you got you know, but you know what it is, Kevin,
you know it was already a leaning tree. I'm ten
years older. I didn't studied everything in it. I knew
what was coming out. We were really the beginning of
the album oriented, you know, rap artists, where it was

(11:18):
still a singles media.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, there were still singles vinyls getting released.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, and you know, and we knew everything from Iron
Maiden to Marvin Gangs, so we knew how to make
an album. So when I trust me, I'm coming off
my first tour year in eighty seven, So by the
time we get back in the lamp, I know exactly
what to make. Number one, make it faster because on stage,

(11:43):
you know when you're going to no matter what you're doing,
you're gonna be amped up to do a song faster
than what that recording would be. Right, So I knew,
I say, all right, let's make the recordings faster. So
we was at least ten beats fast, ten beats per
minuted faster than anybody else. Why I say beats permitted
with important because that's DJ cult, that's djhit for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
The average person doesn't go by like, oh, this needs
to be five beasts for a minute faster and amp.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Up like this.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
You guys were conscient, just like, hey, we're gonna speed
our shit up like everybody else is here.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
We're here, yeah, because the difference is is like, how
do you, how do you make your stuff different from
the next person, faster, louder. Well, if everybody could reach
up and be louder at the same time, you know,
more than one vocalist, you know. So our whole thing
was to stand out because you ain't had radio, you
ain't have a lot of people like yah, yeah, we're

(12:33):
going to make sure we financed this thing forward.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
No, it had to stand on its own two feet.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
You guys also were very instrumental in lending an olive
branch to Cube once he left NWA.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, nineteen ninety America's most wanted. We toured together eighty
eighty seven, eighty eight, and eighty nine, and you know,
so that's where the friendship started.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, and then obviously he comes, I mean, the Bomb
Squad takes the realm of his first solo album, which
was a five mic album.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, he wanted, he wanted to actually get dre and
easy to do it, but the situation with priority at
the same time had he had to wait for a
year and a half or back in them days, you
wait for a year and a half and it's another world,
a whole other world. So you know, he came to
me and wanted to do, you know, us to do it,

(13:25):
but no, really he came to me to see what
can happen when if he came to East and I
try to unite him with Sam Severn and other people.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Like that, what's burn Burn? Hollywood Burn? Was that like
made in that same Yeah, yeah, same ere but you're like, yo,
we're gonna take this one for.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Us, And that was no, no, no Burn Hollywood Burn
was me and Kane already was going to do it,
and Cuba had just come out this try to look
for a studio, try to look for producers or whatever
on this project, and he was in the studio at
the same time.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
So when me and kin was talking about Cube was
like on the count said ya, I want to be
on that. Yeah. We both looked at him like yeah,
not right, And that's how it started.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
The most difficult thing keV at that time is could
you get three different record labels to agree on it?
Oh yeah, back there you have segregation, right and you know, no,
we don't want them on that label or we don't
want that song over there. So I had to do
a lot of you know, I had to do a
lot of godfathering at that time.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
To make that happen.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
And it's so crazy too because if you think about
like how the Bomb Squad was able to somehow like
revolutionize West Coast hip hop in like a way that
like they I don't know if they get the credit for.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
We got our credit for. The whole thing is like
this is like do the thing and let everybody fly
with their own wings. You know, this Bomb Squad never
did the same thing twice, right, and we never did
two albums in a row on anybody. Once we do,
you you get it, Boom, you fly like Cube, my
favorite Cube albums, Kill that World.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
The next thing he did after so Good Yeah, so
one of my favorite covers of all time too, that
covers so.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Far, Yeah, because he got it. You know, once we
were there had to be like an incubation lab and
once you get.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
It killer well didn't have Jack and for Beats on it.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
M m oh yeah of course so good yeah, beat
changes and all that under it.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
You know what's crazy. I always think when I like,
will listen to Jack and for Beats what you said
about the labels, I always think back then, like how
did clear all these beats? Like you know what I
mean like it wasn't like it was a mixtape. Like
there wasn't the internet where could just drop a freestyle
on YouTube, like he had to put that out.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, if anybody could clear anything from independent and labels
at that particular time, it would be Brian Turner because
Brian Turner also released all the rap Masters compilation tapes.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, I remember those, and.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
That took a little bit of clearance to try to
get because.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
There was that was back then. There was a lot
of compilations that you might go to a gas station
and to be like a racket tapes and you'd be
like be like, yeah, let me grab this.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
The Swap Meet the Lah you know, Dre was making
those those Swap Meet tapes in uh eighty seven, eighty six,
and eighty eight is the only place where you could
find songs because they wasn't on cassette yet. It was
you know back then, you know, hip hop was a
singles market. They did not you know what I'm saying
with singles albums, but you know, if they released the

(16:13):
twelve inch, right, the average person, you know be like,
I ain't got no record player, you know, I got
a box, I won't play cassettes. The record labels didn't
figure that out. So the swap meet DJ's was the
first one I remember coming out were playing San Diego.
They got a swap meet, you know, outside in the
parking lot, and sure enough got racks of you know tapes.

(16:34):
I still got those tapes to this day, man, and
they would have all the hits on it, and that
was it. Yo.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
One of my favorite remixes of all time is to
shut Him Down remix. I think Pete Rock Rock. I
think that's one of the greatest beats ever. Yeah, I
love that song. So much of the original is incredible.
Do you remember hearing that for the first time? Like,
because you guys already had a big record, but it
took a like I feel like the Pete Rock version.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Took a little further. Well, you know, this is a
difference in Kevin.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
You know, La and New York are two different places,
and everything in between was different. They wanted that original
doom because we performed that when we had the the
Pete Rock version. How that started? That started real easy.
The person that Columbia Sony Angela Thomas, was working with

(17:29):
Pete and she said, Hey, I got a young guy
named Peter Phillips and he wants to be able to
do a remix, and you know, and I was like, cool,
let's go. Let's we ain't got nothing to look. It
was the first remix that then we got done that
Hank allowed, and it was for like the third single
and Apocalypse or whatever, So where we could go wrong?

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I mean, where could we go wrong?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's like down the line it's third single, and and Pete,
you know, not only did you do shut him down,
he also did our night Train and he did Night
Train with the with the James Brown get up, get
into it and get involved backtracking. So he delivered too.

(18:14):
And then it was like should he rap on it?
I was like yeah, I had them wrap him in
cl And that's to me, that's a joyful moment because
I felt that it also helped them in their career
too for a little bit. You know, they already had
their Pete Rock and Clsmove then jumping off, but the
fact that it was on a pe remix, I think
it did stuff for It did justice for cl Smooth

(18:37):
as much as it did for Pete Rock, and that
did great justice for us as well.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
You kind of kick off this new project kind of
saying what rock is, right, Yeah, you and Pe have
always had such a synergy with different bands and just
the genre in general, whether it's Anthrax or you know,
we talked earlier about Rage and all that, Like what
do you think it is about the energy that Public
Enemy and Chucky is always brought to the table musically

(19:06):
stylistically that is like always meshed so well with with rock.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Louder, stronger, faster. We're gonna be faster, We're gonna be
louder and we're gonna be stronger. I mean it's you know,
like you do them lyrics at that speed, you're gonna
kill over the average person, killing over right, and you
know what, And not to get on my high horse,
but the men I started the Public Enemy, bring the
noise pop up on one hundred and nine beasts for
a minute.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Hundred you know, and even King doing raw and all that.
The real yoh man, the.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Real marathon was Anthrax doing bring the noise right because
thrash metal at high speeds, yo, man, they take it
from here to way higher, you know. And the motto is, Kevin,
you do the songs or the songs do you? So
it ain't no cop out, so you cut and do
it on a song, right, it ain't nothing. Oh I

(20:00):
can't do the third verse. I got to stop. It's
no parachute man. And that's one thing I always to
say about MC's I say, you know what, challenge yourself
with speed. Don't think you're going to find a convenient beat,
because I mean, if you don't challenge your lungs, man,
you spitting and what you're doing. I mean, it's easy
to be in the pocket. I mean my moms could

(20:20):
rhyme in the pocket right right, right right.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
But something that really tests you physically.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think it's a good thing that you know, like
leaders of the New School when they trained under us,
we used to have a run around the track backwards
and spit versus.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
It's very difficult to do.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Quite literally, I don't know how to do it today.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
But yeah, get to go around the track, spit your
lyrics running backwards. See where that ends up.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
That's wild. Yeah, that's that would explain you know why
one of the greatest performers of all time came out
of that's crazy think about.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
And then the other thing is that you could, you know,
you would be like you know, chop chop up time. Yeah,
but chop up time and move it's different. Yeah, it's
great to see if you're standing is a master at
chop up time? Right, but you're standing still right right right,
Diggie stood still right right right? Punk punk and metal,

(21:20):
they they they're all over the place.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
I think the only guy who I could think off
the top of my head that's newer new guys. Well,
I guess newers. I was going to say he's not newer,
but Tech nine, Tech nine is.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah, he sees in shape, he's crazy, he's he's taken.
I know it's a crazy comparison, but Tech nine is
taking hardcore. And also what Hammer did have to dancing?

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Right?

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Well, no, there's a lot of dancing and textuffy, tons
of back man exactly like tons of choreography. Yeah, but
it's like, yeah, it's it's crazy text a live show this.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, yeah, And so a lot of credit isn't given
for that.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Do you feel like there's a lack of quote unquote
I guess you could say, like protest music in hip
hop in twenty twenty five, you.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Only know what you know. A lot of people only
spit what they know.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
That's fair yeah, you don't know what you know. I
also feel like I feel like too.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's just like.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
I feel like with I feel like there's gonna be
there has to be more coming well, you know, because
I feel like the world is becoming more and more
aware of like certain shit happening all over the planet,
and I feel like I would hope there are some
people we've never.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Heard of inspired right hip know for people spitting what
they don't like, but on top of the list is
some personal things they don't like, and that that usually
clogs up the agenda.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
I think the last great protest hip hop song was
fuck Donald Trump by YG Yeah classic.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, and yeah exactly. I mean.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Those are guys that stuck you know, that's stuck out man,
And look to me, I feel man, every song got
to have a topic.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
The key things that even back in the day that
if I said anything the cube I said, just don't
repeat yourself twice and don't feel like you got to
have a jump up from this person to that person
all overnight, gradual build up, so so your fan base
can follow you.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yo, when did you guys? Because when I think of
you guys, you are so synonymous with some of my
favorite movies of all time. Do the right things up there. Obviously,
you guys did the he Guy game soundtrack, which I
remember buying used from the warehouse. Great album. When did
you guys?

Speaker 2 (23:37):
That's an underrated album, Oh for sure, because I got
I got ball bars in there, that that Cat.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Stois Ray Allen Man.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
But what what what?

Speaker 3 (23:48):
What was your guys' initial I guess, uh, the genesis
of you and Spike Lee's relationship renaissance people at the
time where he was creating film, we would creating music.
Other people were creating other different things, and all in
New York City at the time, So we were kind
of like brought together by Bill Stephanie and you know

(24:11):
in nineteen eighty nine, and really at the end of
nineteen eighty eight then he just finished putting together School
Days in School Days.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, he took Go Go Music with EU and had
that highlight and Kadeem Hardison, you know, water Public Enemy
sweatshirt in it, and it was about college and something
that we and I was familiar with a lot, you know,
fraternities and stuff like that. I mean, you say fraternities
and sororities across White America. They don't know what the
hell we talk about, right, But the black life was

(24:43):
a whole different universe in there, and we were familiar
with that. We used to fight, fight sororities, I mean
fraternities too, as well as playing music for them.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
So that was a whole other universe that he tapped in.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
And he said the next thing he was tapped in
on the unrest that was going on, inequality that was
going on in New York City at the time.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
So when we had a meeting in.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Eighty eight and right before we was going on tour
in Europe wud Run dmc, Spike said, I'm putting together
this thing with all the stuff that's going on, this
inequity going on in New York City. And strangely enough,
that movie was spearheaded by the continuity and the connection

(25:29):
that that Black Radio did for the city.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
You see Samuel L.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Jackson, oh Man, Samuel Jackson is the one that ties
the whole the whole movie, the whole time.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, And so Spike.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Said he needed an anthem, and the original thing he
wanted us to do was a hip hop version of
lift Every Voice and Sing that was quickly rejected, and
to fight the power became the thing that came out
of that. But who knew Spike was gonna put that
song in the movie like fifteen times.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
It was Yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's kind
of like a character in the.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Movie Unprecedented and uh, Spike helped make that that what
it was. And yeah, a lot of things on making
it and sonically it was a compromising record. It wasn't punk.
It was like, okay, you know this is this is
the music that gets you bumping. I mean certain things
set it off. I mean seeing Rosie, you know Perez

(26:19):
at the beginning she boxing and dancing.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
I mean, you the first time you see a real.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Dance element connected the public enemy who who's more about
fighting knocking the head off your shoulder than dancing. So
there's a lot of things that that Spike brought to
fight the power that a lot of people don't give
him credit for.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
When I every time I watched Do the Right Thing,
I'm always like, why didn't Spike act more?

Speaker 1 (26:40):
He's so good in this movie.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
I feel like that might be is that the only
movie like he didn't really.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Do a lot of acting, Like, I mean, they Spiked
don't get credit for example, Man Jordan's doesn't take off.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
I mean, Jordan doesn't.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Have no personality without commercial unless you had no personality
less Spike.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Lee, those commercials brought some yeah, some yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Because all Nike was just like a Nike. Matter of fact,
Nike was less hippo than Adidas because Adidas.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Had running in Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
You know, Nike was like okay, you know, you know,
you track, running track, you know, a couple of people
playing ball with it. Spike not only bought you know,
hip hop into it, he brought Brooklyn into it.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
So I'm from Phoenix, your guys a song by the
time I get to Arizona, it was a record that
was it was almost like, damn, we're only known and
we don't know, we don't have any rappers. We're only
known because we were the last state to have MLK Day. Yeah,
fucking public enity Beta song about us essentially.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah right, that was that was a trip too. And
when we played with you two in Sun Devil Stadium,
that went across like oh my goodness. You know, we
played just that song, right, and then we didn't play
the rest of our set. We protest the wrestler, so
that made that. But we wasn't doing things.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
I didn't know that happened to you guys. Yeah, we
played Sun Devil only did that one song and then
eighty five.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Thousand people up in there and do the fists in
the air?

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Did you get the back end?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Not only did we the only did we put our
fists in the air, right, but we hung the Klansmen
that night. Yeah, we hung the Clansmen that night. Every
show where we did we hung a Klansman at the
end of it.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
That's amazing, can we I.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Mean, see, that's the kind of ship we need. I
want to see that ship in.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
But listen, you have you have a more homogen.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I would say homoginized USA, where all the kids are
in the same melting pot. But that's everybody's afraid to
say say something because.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
They might pist the homie off the homes's parents or
you know.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, everybody, you know, everybody's a screen ager, so they're
getting their ethics through the phone anyway.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
But they all like minded through the same screens anyway.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
So you find people that they like minded, and they
knocked the visual differences off to the side, which is cool.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
What's not cool is that people are learning.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Less about each other's background because there's a lot of
dirt in the background on everybody. So they say, we
don't teach nothing, we'll start over the twenty first century
and go forward. And that ain't cool either, because everything
is institutionalized in the history of what made it in
the first place. So you got to teach history, you
got to teach geography. And geography is like, Okay, you

(29:30):
was in Phoenix, you wasn't in Tempe, and I mean
you wasn't you was You wasn't in Tucson, and some
people couldn't connect Tucson. But where you're at. You're in Arizona.
So where's that you know? You're like what you don't know?
It's still the United States, the lower forty eight. But
so the United States, I call them USA ors because
it's North America, Central America, South America, carect Caribbean. They

(29:54):
don't even know where they live. They only know exactly
where they might be, but they don't know where they live.
And the more that we learned about the history of
the country, the history of how we all got here
as human beings, the history of who've had it before,
that they're trying to say, oh yeah, we're going to
figure out how to call up ice and de port

(30:15):
you on a region of land where indigenous, indigenously you
already had some sense of home about the north south
central America. It's just weird in twenty twenty five when
it comes down to educating the masses, to educate artists.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
To try to say something like where do you start?

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well, I feel like too, that was what was so
great about you, guys, was you were able to learn
about things that you might You know, you listen to
public Enemy, you're going to take something. If you're in
your bubble, you're gonna be forced to step out of
your bubble and retain some.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Information that goes along with the songwriter. Too. I do
more listening than I did it, more listening and reading
than I did talking, like.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
I remember listening to Immortal Technic as a kid and
learning about all kind of crazy shit about like the
CIA and right fuck like crazy like. I mean, I
think a lot of people like obviously generic, you know,
people who weren't you know, necessarily like astute. But a
lot of a lot of people got introduced to the
nation through you guys too.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
I mean, you know, popular Culture is a great gateway
right for the good, bad and ugly too. You could
you could introduce through culture things that make people say, well,
I love culture, and I guess this is the thing
that that they say that they love as well. So
I'm follow that until I hit a brick wall. But
culture is good. Culture is to bring that is the

(31:41):
thing that you know, brings us together and knocks the
differences to the side, right as human beings.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
I feel like too, that's just music. Music is like
music is the common space. Music is sports could be
you could be at a fucking basketball game, right right.
We agree we love the Knicks, I not agree on
everything else exactly.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
And it also is an age baracud if you know,
it knocks down the isms you have what racism, sexism,
now you get agism. All you gotta do is go
around and see the lifestyles of people sixty and over
and really seventy and over. And there's not a lot
of in this country that can you know, save a

(32:25):
lot of people from from themselves. And they're in the
back spot. And that's one of the things that radio
on Agatting addresses too. Somewhere in there, somewhere, Yeah, I've
been your agent, and you know you ain't never been mine.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
That's a bar.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, well you know I've been never been mine. Yes,
this is that's just factual mathematics.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
And here's the thing is about it. Like a lot
of times, let's say you take an old head un.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
You know they call me an unk. I think they
call you an old head. I don't know. I'm an
o G. I saw the breakdown of the age.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, who broke that down?

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Some kid on TikTok on TikTok. As of right now
at thirty eight, I'm an unk.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah you are.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
I'm og because I'm an uncle. People in their forties, yeah,
you'd be like that. So that's what they you know,
or even like a person that turned fifty. I turned
fifty fifteen years ago, so I'm like, so they still
gonna call me unk, and then you gotta revere. You
got to own that too, because you know. But the
thing about it, here's a misnomer. If he's sharp, and

(33:27):
you have your senses and you're not brain fogged by
by whatever happened during COVID.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
You already seen what happened.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I've seen mc in since nineteen seventy six, so I'm
seeing it in twenty twenty five at real time.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
So when somebody said, oh, man, you don't know what
this is, I said, I see it, I hear it,
I feel it. But I'm comparing it. I'm comparing it
to the first time I heard him saying, you know
what fifty years Yeah. Yeah, So my timeline. What you're
trying to tell me is that I can't make a
compare the analysis when I've seen both, but you only
see one, or your timeline of comparison might be Okay,

(34:06):
I started to check this out in nineteen ninety six,
So that's your timeline in real time. Anything before that
you got to go into YouTube and all the other
stuff that doesn't give you a good you know exactly anything.
But I'll tell you another thing. Like I said the
last interview, you grew up in Phoenix. You've seen some
spots in LA over the years. Do you ever go
in the area that's rebuilting new buildings or whatever?

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah? Do you ever still see the old buildings while
you're looking at the new buildings?

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Sometimes?

Speaker 1 (34:34):
But mostly, but when you see the new building.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Oh oh, you're when I'm looking at the new building.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, you see the old buildings the same time.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
That just happened to me.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
That's your third die in your back eye.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, that literally just happened to me.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
A young head ain't got that. Matter of fact, sometimes
you even see people who ain't here no more, right,
that's fair. Yeah, So you can't really.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Process this in anything when you come down to evaluations.
It's not like you're stuck in the day. You see
both of them at the same time. Oh, yeah, of
the church that used to be right there, you see
that church right and you see the new building. Those
comparative analysis a young head can't make.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, I feel like, yeah, there's just certain I feel
like hip hop's an interesting space where there's a lot
of people who aren't necessarily fans of hip hop. They
have a voice in You got.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Casuals everywhere though, Yeah, but oh you mean the ones in.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Charge not even necessarily in that too. But also just
like when it comes to like some of the commentary
that is bigger, it's from people who aren't even like
really hip hop fans.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
They're like, but they can't tell you what they are
fans of anyway.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
I mean, like me, you know, I like who I like, like,
for example, I grew up with Rolling Stones, Lan Zeppelin,
who beatles right, But then there's another category R EO Speedwagon,
Foreigner sticks.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
They take care of that thing too, you know, the eighties,
And I just barely, like, in the last five six years,
have gotten very appreciative of hain't that trip some of
that like seventies eighties rock shit.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Me too, I mean, and I grew up alongside of it.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Some mushrooms and I threw on the fucking one of
these nights by the Eagles, and I was like, right,
like you was like, YO.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
For real, thorough raise thorough for sure.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
Yeah, man, but within your record kind of saw YO
as a statesman of hip hop, as one of the
guys who built this shit. What was your just fan perspective,
Chuck D perspective on Kendrick Lamar and Drake and just
Kendrick's last twelve months. It's been pretty crazy and the

(36:35):
halftime show, your boy Samuel L. Jackson is an amazing guy.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I thought that was a wonderful introduction to rap, but
it was you know, a lot of thinking rap music
and hip hop is top heavy. You know, when I
look at your walls, I see I see, I see
top middle and also start up coming in the bottom.
If you're going to come on, man, if you're going
to be like a ball fan of NBA, it's not
all about Kobe and Jordan.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
It's like could be like somebody who's like the sixth
Landry Shammitt. You know what I'm saying. Like, if you don't,
you got to appreciate, uh, you know, thoroughness in it.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
And you appreciate Derek Fisher too, exactly so.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
And so the wide body aspect of hip hop and
rap I'm into when it comes down to like, oh yeah,
they you know it's Drake and Kendrick. I'm like, that's
casual talk, right, yeah, the casuals. It's like like I
talked to people, I'm a Nick fan, man, They're like,
oh yeah, well I like I like, yeah, I like Brunson.
Yeah right, And it's not who else is on the Knicks. Well,

(37:31):
you know the guys that's with Brunson, right, Okay.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
What's the guy? The cat guy Cat?

Speaker 1 (37:37):
All the conversations you have with your mom, Man.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
How did you watch last night's game?

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Come on, man, I got scars all over my body today.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
But you know what listen, I just I have to
do thirty eight when you saw this, you thirty eight?

Speaker 1 (37:51):
How old are the How old are the players?

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Uh, there're probably ten years more.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
So they experience a level that they they haven't experienced before.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
All those guys on both teams for sure.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, for you know, you let young guys do their
thing until they figure it out.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, it was definite.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
They was if they already should have been knowing about
that level, they'd be forty five years old, but their
body wouldn't be able to work. Like so, every time
I watch sports, I said, you know, god, you know,
don't make that Pass't no better than that. I checked myself.
I'm like, you know what, this the first Eastern Conference finals.
He twenty four years old?

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yo, man?

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Let young be young man. Yeah, it was definitely, it was.
It just it was some ninety shit for me to
see those two teams against each other, because you remember
back in the day, you would when it was like
it was always the Knicks and Heat or the Knicks
and Pacers.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Those our enemies. Man, we beat the Celtics. The Celtics
ain't never been the Knicks enemy.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Now it was the Heat, yeah, and the Pacers The
Celtics have always been big bro Nicks little bro and
every time the Celtics will win.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
As I'm telling you, back in the fifties, we we
we we we we were losers. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
I feel like in the nineties the Celtics were losers
and the Knicks.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
So that's been the Knicks, that's been the Celtics, enemies
of the Lakers and also the Philadelphia seventy sixes. Those
are you know what I'm saying, That's where that can
Nick's heat paces. I got to play in Boston two
days from now, so I was on Twitter X or
whatever the hell they want to call it, and I'm
I'm a little I'm a rowdy as a texting fan.

(39:30):
Of course, I'm like, beat them asses, And people are like,
oh my god, Chuck D said that, Oh my god,
you they all vertebrate hurt. And I'm like, no, this
ain't me. But but during the game this you look,
he ain't sitting.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Next to me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
I feel like there's like I always tell people, there's
like sports hate, which isn't real hate, but it's like
I could say, like I hate a player, but.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, I hate paces and I hate the heat right
and here's the crazy thing about it, keV. I got
fans in Miami, and I got fans in the Indian
African for sure. But I said, this is this Saint
Chuck d. This is Chuck a fan of the New
York Knicks, and I hate y'all asses.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
I think if y'all get through this, I think I
think there's a good chance. I feel like, I feel
like you guys matchup well against the Thunder. I'm assuming
the Thunder went already.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Game by game. I hope we we it was game one.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Man only young heads is like, oh my god, well
we you know, like you know, like in New York,
you know, outside the garden, this is Gooden Central Station.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Man, for sure.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
You know anybody it's like, oh, they should walk around
with Indiana paces Jersey outside that guard.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
You shouldn't know.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
One of my uh favorite moments at the iHeart Festival
over the last few years was you you guys doing
the iHeart Festival, because iHeart festivals. Like I remember when
we saw the lineup, I was like, oh, because usually
I'm backstage running around drinking. I was like, oh no.
Me and Doc Winner we watched while eating mushrooms, watched

(40:54):
you guys, fucking kill that show.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
That was running around, but it was real show and yeah,
yeah it was a good, like shiny experience.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, it was definitely. It's always a shiny your experience.
It's like it's like hanging out at a commercial and
doing doing a life. Yeah it's a TV show.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
And let me tell you doing public getemy so you
got you gotta go through training and that was one
of those shows that like, it ain't training, it's just
like kind of doing it with a little bit of
warm up.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
But you know the regular tour thing you got trained
for sure, you guys.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
And you know you mentioned the public enemy logo, whether
it's people wearing the shirt, whether I mean I got
public going to be Vans. The licensing game for public
enemies got to be crazy, like do you are you?

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Are you? I used to be on top of it,
and is it turned into its own things?

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Pop used to have merchandise tool, merchandise company. Now it's
just like out of our hands. So it has its
own thing that you get checked up on. But my
whole thing is like I had to get with a
bigger situation because every time I see someone with it,
I am a and Navana and they like are twelve
and eleven years old and for.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Sure and wearing a Beatles shirt.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
I get competitive, man, I'm like, damn man, Yeah, you know,
how do we get up in those ranks?

Speaker 1 (42:11):
It's Target.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
It's just Target, Yeah, because Target's got the sick shirts
for like eleven bucks. Yeah, and you'll be in there
be like damn Tar got a Woot tank shirt.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah exactly, I'll take that.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
What keeps you so inspired in just like you you
feel like you still got the battery in your back
to compete to work at your age man.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Like number one, I've been doing the radio show every
week for sixteen years in a row. So I see,
I see everything come through it through me. I curate
at least as many. It's five hundred thousand saungs and artists,
no matter what else they come from, whether it's the Drakes,
down to the brother Ali's down to like, you.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Know, shout to brother Manhred just here.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
My brother brother, and you know, down to anybody. So yeah,
I'm in the game, you know. And the game is
sharpened by the radio shows, rap station, the apps.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
I've built.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
The Spit Slam record label with my partner Sea Doc,
you know, put together the radio Armageddon, and there's always
you know, hip hop gods or a man flat Line,
which is basically classic artists and you know, been doing
it for over twenty years, that's the category we call it,
and a station and the show that he has, he's
been doing it. So my whole fight is to make

(43:32):
sure that they get known for all the work they
put in all these years. It ain't about me, It's
about damn. You know. Can I make Sea Doc like
really beat Damn? At least somebody that could say, yo,
he's in the top twenty five or flat Line. He's
been doing his shows from up from Seattle, you know
for the last thirty years and for the last sixteen

(43:53):
years on rap station.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Damn? Could I get him notoriety? Right?

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Or?

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Do you know?

Speaker 2 (43:58):
The only ones that get notoriety is you know, here's
a big corporation. They're gonna flood it with money and
promotion and you know, and that's how you get big.
So if they don't get big, I'm a failure.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Yo, do you did you see? Because there's so many,
so many of my homies who got hip to you
guys because of Tony Hawk's pro skater.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, Tony Hawk.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
And before that like Bring the Noise was like I
felt like like anytime you play Tony Hawk, that song
is getting played.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Tony Hawk's a big uh, a big.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
It was like that and B Boy document that all
of a sudden, like little white kids all over the
country didn't know they were becoming like backpack fans because
they're like listening to most stef and P and shit.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
You know, A's a trip to it. He's a great
fan and peer, you know, Tony Hawk and the whole thing.
And before that was the grand Theft Auto thing. Yeah.
When I was I think I was a DJ. I
don't play video games. I couldn't tell you A from
B from anything, but I get the feedback. You know
what I'm saying. I'm not a skater because I'm from

(45:00):
the seventies. I'm a roller skater. So at back in
the seventies, we danced, right and you want to get
the girls roller skating or dance on the floor.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Dancing is no longer an element in today's music.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
It sure isn't. I'll tell you that. Look, you know
friends that get married, Yeah, there's dancing at weddings still.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
But not between the dudes. A lot of the times
you see the ladies dancing together. Yeah, I feel like
even the dudes is on the wall.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
You know, do drink on and sure you dudes don't
dance anymore. They're too cool.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
The mean back in the day, they was cool too.
But my job as the DJ is to yell at
them and get them off the wall, right right. You
also la culture to us all how to dance too,
because you had soul trained. Soul Train taught all of
us like get off the wall and get down and
big up to Don Cornelis because that was right here

(45:52):
in town. And for years you wasn't a big black
act until you went to Soul Train.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
If you had to pick one of your babies, it
takes a nation or fear of a black planet.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Which album you followed? Baseball, Yes, loosely.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
That's like Roger Morris's season and then the next year
he had fifty four, So it's like one's an upper
deck shot. The other one is like a line drive shot.
So those are two home runs that I don't think.
I don't think I could cook all betyet and pitches.
One is a fastball one hundred and twenty miles an hour,

(46:31):
others all Break a split Finger.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
That to Oh my God, you need them both, Yeah,
you need them both.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
So my favorite, crazy enough, my favorite record that I
liked over the last in this century was what Gary
g Wiz produced called Man Plans God Lasts. Okay, the
whole album is twenty nine minutes, and the whole goal
to do the album was if we could do eight
to nine cut or ten cuts under two minutes, that's

(46:59):
just to do bro. But but the way he put
his foot into it to That record came out twenty
fifteen and we performed quite a bit on it.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
You know, it was awesome.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
You are in one of the greatest groups of all time.
If you had to put your guys's yourself in the
Mount Rushmore, who's on the Mount Rushmore of rap groups
with you? There's three more spots if you had to
pick three, maybe your personal taste groups of just rap Roop.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah, Cypress Hill, Okay, Run, dmc WU, Tang Clan. And
I'm not going to count duos because you know, you
get in the outcasts.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Yeah, because you get into the duo Space Mob, Deep Run,
the Jewels of the Duo.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, duo, so their groups, but in that
you know, right, and you got to put e gm
D like at the top of those duos, the duos
American paris just amazing. But I'll say, like when you
got the full dimension d D, j MC's other things
like Cypress Hill, rou Tang Run DMC.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Personally, Houdini.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Doesn't get there. They're underappreciated when we talk about that.
For sure.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Houdini obliterated the eighties and performance and records and crossed
over in the areas you know. So yeah, and to me,
I'm a person that's missed groups, you know, I missed groups,
uh dilated people's as a group and then somebody you
travel with although it was two people, but it was

(48:37):
also DJ.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Was very instrumental in their live show and it cuts.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, that's a group, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
And yeah, not to say epm D didn't have scratched also,
so you get in the vague areas like that, but.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Was like an official. He had his own records on
the on the album.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, I thought that the West Coast held on the
groups a little bit more before they went into corporation,
saying well, we're only going to sign the solo act.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
J five was dope, drastic.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Oh my god, J five, I mean big up to
I do hiro Oh.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
So I do graphic illustrations, So I've released seven illustrated books.
But so I know people who are artists in the
hip hop fields. So people like Charlie Charlie Tuna and one.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Of the best voices, oh my god, in tones in
hip hop history is Charlie Tuneman. Yeah, and then went
on to have it. He's in another great group.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Which is fucking exactly crazy.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah, crazy, Charlie Tuna slept on that. And that dude
is huge. I remember I met him as a kid.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
I was like, he's a tall dude.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Man, his voice matchress.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
My voice doesn't match me.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
People used to say, Man, I thought somebody's gonna come
in here, like six foot five, three hundred pounds is like, uh,
kars one, who's the most devastating greatest of all time
rappers goat with plus and some it's a dude that
you know, just like he's the only MC I know
that come in the room and change the MC complexion

(50:17):
of the room because he could come in and he
does this too, Yo, who MC's here and nobody wants
to say to the MC.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah, dude, I mean I remember when he was doing
the Temple of Hip Hop shit when I was a
kid and I got to go see him live, like
it was like watching Like, yeah, it was crazy seeing
kiris one for the first time.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
I was like another one stamina wires, which is important
as that.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
You guys toured together too in quite a few times.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yeah, as a as a young guy and as an
older person. You know, then you got n w A
I mean, which is a super group before wu Jang.
Then he got the roots.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Oh, the roots. He had the roots. Yeah, and then
the roots too, like over time was more than just
black thought. As an MC, dice were always in there
and the group like yeah, the roots, honestly, the roots.
The roots is in that conversation man.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Well you know, then the roots come out of what
the first hip hop bands, that's the Sonic.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Then you did your underground, Yeah, Tupac comes.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Out of that, Yeah, sex packet, and then you know,
and you got the.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Roots was the third man manifestation out of that.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
And then you had groups that came up that didn't
get to support, like the Goats got dope.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah, I feel like, uh, there was a lot of
like nineties rap groups that, like you said, like didn't
necessarily that like if you knew you knew type like
even like D I T. C.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, because they had they had a
whole c of mcs that was able to get on
Diamond's work and just I mean like people like O.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
C O.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Giant Man.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
You know, it's crazy. Why do you think the group
died in hip hop and N R and B Because
I always had this conversation with R and B two
because it's.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Like easier when I was easier for to negotiate with
one person. See.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
The problem is also when it came to Black Acts,
destroy the group, take the solo member and you know
so so so we're afraid of not only this renegotiation,
but read negro negotiation and reading negotiation.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
That's the ship that they throw at Black Acts.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, because if you think back, you know, bust the
rhymes went solo. There's a bunch of the.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Last thing they wanted is like eight people yelling in
the office, Like they said, now we could just take
one person and negotiate with that one person their lawyer.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Oh you need a lawyer, by the way my brother.
So they would, they would, they would mob up on
the on the.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
They would Yeah, it's crazy because that still happens where
management or the label will recommend you a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
So they mobbed up telling you to go solo right
as opposed that they mobbed up and you mobbed up, right,
Ain't that's something right?

Speaker 1 (52:59):
I see?

Speaker 3 (53:00):
You know, you've always had a big voice when it
comes to just like anything anything, sports, politics, et cetera.
What is your thoughts just done? Like, you know, just
everything that's happening in the world right now, we got
you know, gods of shit is super sad what's happening
over there. And it feels like every day there's some
new wild shit that Trump's doing where you're like, what.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Whippings of mass distraction to get everybody to be phyxiated
on bread and circuses as they continue to do the dirt.
And you know, it's very easy to detach the United
States of American mind away from the world. People already
ain't trying to look at the world as the world.
They try to look at, you know, their own county
and state as that, and they don't want to go

(53:44):
any further. Just like ask at the normal California. How
much of California did they see?

Speaker 1 (53:50):
That's true. You got people in laws have never been
to bakers Field.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Like, what the hello, Doug, I've been a Bakersfield you Yeah,
there you go.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
But you did work in Bakersfield, right.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
I've been to Bakersfield. I'm on the radio in Bakersfield.
I've been there enough times in my life where I'm like,
I've seen it. Okay, Insne to ben to Fresno. Actually
like Presnel tad.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Bit Moore than a little bigger, little bigger, a little.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Bigger, little bigger. They get the college shut to the bulldogs.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Well, my thing is like people in the United States
of America don't venture out to the United America for sure.
And when it comes down to it, we'll talk politically.
This country's run by counties. So when they talk about police,
you know, to be a qualified police where you have
to negotiate with human beings and people in Los Angeles

(54:33):
or urban quarter called urban areas where a lot of
melting pots goes on, you might not have to do
it in a county where it's sports and all of
a sudden, not only you are the the cop, but
you the sheriff in town because eighty six people voted
for you, and you get a chance to wear a gun,
a badge and drive around in a tank.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
It's crazy because I can assume that you're to the
point in your career where you've had interactions with police
that are fans of you.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Oh yeah, I've never had conflict with any police ever
in my life. But and I was cat when I
was going to college. I had to walk to it.
I had to walk through a white, posh town.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
But so did the cops ever fuck with you guys
because of you know, nine one one as a joke
or some of these records. Did they ever give you
any shit?

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Nah? Nah?

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Anyway, listen, the Nation Islam, right, and I work with
the Nation pop is in the Nation of Islam.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Number one, they teach you, number.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
One, to conduct yourself civilized, so no matter where you are,
your language will save you half the time. You Also,
the Nation Islam teaches its people to know the law
wherever you live. You only fight the law when you
know the law. You know it's unjust, and you know
the best way to fight the law is collectively with
an organized plan, because the law nine times out of

(55:48):
ten might be against you, you'll stop by police. There's
a language and there's a behavior to untwist you out
of that situation that you govern. They don't govern you,
they work for you. You, but you gotta have the
language to make them understand that at jump the minute
that if a cop come and pull you aside, and
they already got and you know, a police pulling you over,

(56:11):
the number one mission is to get home, right, So,
and we know we got some asshole police out there,
especially you go through like a boondock, you know, county.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
And they're just bored.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Huh yeah, yeah, So you gotta.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Go there and figure out like, all right, this dude, man,
it's like, let me untwist it. Even on a bad day,
figure out how to get on out and keep it moving,
get up out of there. But you know, you were
taught how to govern your language, how to govern, govern
your human being. And even then you gonna run into
some cracker situation that might be adversarial, but then you know,

(56:50):
collectively you could figure out the language that that would
move you on. I remember, like not too long ago
in this state where I live here, I'm driving and
my pops back in the day, but probably passed at
twenty sixteen. He will always say, Chuck, you better stop
at signs this whole get to the sign and roll.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Through right, kind of slowly roll through, no complete stop tip.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Right, yeah, yeah, my pop tell me this all the time. Now,
I don't drive fast, right, so I'm up.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
But none of us really are coming to a complete stop.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
We should I know, I know, but then you know,
the more you do it, then you get more relaxed
and type of thing, you know. So sure enough, I
get to stop sign. I kind of didn't go through
cop right there right in the street. So I immediately
pulled to the side immediately, like I start laughing, right,
and he comes up to me, you know, seeing me

(57:43):
laughing right, He started laughing right, and I like, yeah,
my pops man was telling me about it.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
He said, yeah, you should listen to your pops already. There.
I diffuse the air, right, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
So, so as a man, you're taught to sometimes say
when you air my bad, even in sports, it's like
I threw the bad past, but at the same time
you didn't catch it.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
You gotta sometimes say, you know what, I threw it wrong?
My bad? You know you learn that from sports.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
In society, men teach their sons the language because basically,
if you especially if you're black or a person of color,
you want to be an adversarial situation, your language will
save you.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Your language will save you from getting a fight that
you can't handle.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
I feel like too, that's why, like the nation is
so dangerous to the establishment.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Yeah, because they never talked about going around with guns.
Their whole policy is like the listen, their minds have
to be developed. Yeah, yeah, okay, Yeah, there's situations there
where where adversary is guns, even a gun happy nation.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Guns everywhere.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
But can you imagine if it was known for to
be an organization with guns, they would have used the
same cotel practice that they attempted to wipe out.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
I feel like it's interesting, Like I mean, in.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
This state, the Panthers used a policy of the right
to bear arms as intellectuals in this state, and immediately
crack of tactics was about rubbing them.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Out because they they US law, use the law, and
it was like, nigga, you got the nerve.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
I always find it interesting. You know, I was talking
to my boy. I don't know if you've heard the
nineteen Keys. He's incredible. But we're just kind of talking
a bit about why there's less taught about Elijah Muhammad
than there is about other figures throughout history. And it's
like it's that's like almost like purposeful by these you know,
whoever's writing the fucking textbooks. Well, yeah, and you're not

(59:41):
going to learn much about the Black Panthers if you
go to school outside of like a little paragraph.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
And before we used to rely on family being able
to transfer information down. Since everything comes to the screen,
is expected that they're going to intentionally miss some things.
So I always liking that there's no competition in the
great leadership of people in the past before great leaders
those are tools in the box. They're like, well, what
do you think about Malcolm X, you know, versus Doctor King?

(01:00:07):
I said, it is not a Drake, It's not a
Drake and Kendrick battle and every little thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
It's like, it's not that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Malcolm is a tool of learning.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Is he used the phillips head and doctor King was
a flathead screwdriver, you know what I'm saying his tools.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Doctor King came a little bit closer to the phillips
head before he passed you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Yeah, well, you know that's how you use your tools, and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Giants from our past are tools to actually make you
understand how to get forward in your current and in
the future, to be able to teach a little bit
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
I know you do the radio show. I feel like
you could also. I mean, I saw so many artists
are doing amazing podcasts, but I feel like you could
do a podcast and that would just have conversations that
nobody else has happened right now. Is that something you
can consider doing At the time, you ain't got the time.
That's two or three hours a week.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
And yeah, at the time, I don't have the brain
space for it. I'd rather create the technology. I tell people,
I say, you know what, rather than being on the show,
get my app.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Get my app and put your show on your show
on it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
I love it, Miliari.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
All right, So the album is out, Everyone go go
run it up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
It's dope.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
A lot of the artists on there hadn't heard of
so it was dope to discover some new talent on
it that I hadn't been.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Here to homage, to homage, just to say to the
MC and the DJ, and that's the radio. It's the
radio enemy. Radio is the dj MC component of Public Enemy.
Matter of fact, it is actually now the component that
actually is the backdrop of our concerts now is DJ
Johnny Juice joh Heath from the Bay Area. On the

(01:01:44):
other turntable and t Bone the drummer from it used
to be our band element.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
How many I know you guys are always doing shows,
so that they's no not always doing show.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
We just pick it, pick and choose, especially a sixty
five bro. Oh yeah, pick and choose. Man, you got listen.
Why are you all over the place instead of worrying
about the quality of your life?

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Right? I tell people say, it's not what you accumulate,
it is what you do with what you have. I
like that in my art studio is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Ten by ten, thirty five hundred dollars from lows.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
That's all you need.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
And inside that art studio ten by ten by ten,
space magic happens.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Would you guys ever do a new pe album?

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Wait for surprises? Okay, you'll be first enough.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
I feel like all the ogs are putting out amazing.
The new ice Q album was fire. There's there's a
lot of there's just a lot of good, good music
being put out by OG's right now, so including yourself. Man,
go get the album.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Chuck.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
I appreciate your time. We could have done this for
a much longer time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
But oh I'm glad to catch up with you since
you were fourteen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Yeah, for sure, Man, thank you for everything. Man, you
haven't changed my life for real, So thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Bro, like hey man, to be to be a OG
and to get that, I just say, I get it
all the time, and it's immeasurable as opposed to like, dude, Man,
it's like I'm in jail because of you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
I don't have none of that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
So yeah, there are artists where you're like yo, man,
like yeah, and you care the character and I love
some of that music too, for sure. Yeah for sure, Chuck,
appreciate you, bro, Yes, Sir Boom