December 18, 2024 • 33 mins
Dr. Sasha Hamdani — known online as @thepsychdoctormd — is a board-certified psychiatrist and ADHD specialist. She shines a light on the unique ways ADHD presents in women, the impact of late diagnoses, and the interplay between hormonal changes and ADHD symptoms. Dr. Hamdani also shares her personal insights and expertise in managing her own ADHD diagnosis. This episode originally aired Oct. 23, 2024.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello Sunshine, Hey besties. Today on the bright Side, it's
Wellness Wednesday and we are running an encore presentation of
our conversation with board certified psychiatrist and ADHD specialist, doctor
Sasha Hamdani. It's Wednesday, December eighteenth. I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to
share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coliguard.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and according to
the CDC, it's one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders
of childhood and often lasts into adulthood.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
That's true, but what's really fascinating about this is that
women and girls are underdiagnosed and undertreated when it comes
to ADHD, and identifying symptoms of ADHD can manifest differently
depending on age and gender.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, Simone, I actually feel like particularly interested in
hearing from doctor Hamdani because you've said before that you
feel like you.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Have some symptoms of ADHD.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, I've definitely had my questions and my doubts for
a long time about my inability to focus. I identify
as a hyper girly, so maybe there's something to that.
But I think if you're chronically online, you've probably seen
this conversation pop up on social media. It seems like
people are talking about it more and more, and there
(01:34):
are upsides to that, but there are also downsides. Some
of the downsides include misinformation, like are we really getting
the truth when we're engaging in these discussions online. So
that's why it's really important to bring in the experts,
someone like doctor Sasha Hamdani, who knows her stuff, is
one of the upsides.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Doing viral Instagram videos with your husband in a pool
about being hyper.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I don't know if my husband would call it enough side.
I certainly enjoyed that experience.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I certainly feel it's an upside as if you were
I do. But okay, jokes aside, because this is a
serious topic. Joining us today to answer all of our
questions and clear up any misconceptions about ADHD is doctor
Sasha Hamdannie. She's a psychiatrist, the author of Self Care
for People with ADHD, And what feels very unique is
(02:25):
she's someone who has ADHD herself, You might recognize her
from social media, where she shares insights on ADHD and
mental health to her almost two million fans across platforms.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So let's bring her in.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Doctor Sasha Hamdannie, Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Huh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
We're so happy to have you. You are a board
certified psychiatrist. You also have ADHD yourself, and you actually
disappeared at the White House to talk about this very subject,
so we are in such good hands. Why do you
feel called to speak out about ADHD awareness.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Well, partially because I have it, and so it comes
very naturally because this is something that I'm speaking about
from firsthand experience, but also because.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I think as.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Someone who has lived through it, it's really frustrating trying
to navigate these waters with one. For a long time,
there wasn't a lot of great information about it. Yeah,
and number two, there was a lot of stigma around it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I mean, women are historically underdiagnosed and untreated when it
comes to ADHD. Yes, from your research and just your
experience as someone who lives with this condition and speaking
to others about it, why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
How much time do you have because I could go
on before we have time. Honestly, I could write volumes
on this, just because it is such a rich area
of why women are under or misdiagnosed, and so some
of the reasons they're just historical.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
For a long time, eighty was considered as like something
that hyper little boys have, and it was outside of
the scope of everything else, like if a woman was diagnosed, Nope,
you don't have it, because it was only hyper little boys.
The other reason is that women have different societal pressures
and so they are, you know, trained from a very
(04:19):
young age you have to conform, you have to do
these things. You can't cause trouble, you can't act up
in class, you have to So they're forced to mask
all these symptoms and kind of toe the line. Whereas
you know, they're feeling all these things, they're feeling restless there,
feeling impulsive, but they are so afraid of getting in
trouble or they're told like, you cannot be anything besides
(04:40):
this one image, and so they just hide their symptoms
because that's what they're told to do. They hide in
a mask. So that's another thing. Another humongous thing is hormones.
There is a huge correlation between hormonal cycles and ADHD expression,
and so like for example, with PMDD or PMS, people's
(05:01):
symptoms just like body symptoms, everything gets worse. But then
your focus also and executive function gets significantly worse. And
so a lot of times when people are going to
the doctor, they might be on their cyclone. People are
just like, it's puberty, or it's it's hormones, or it's
mommy brain, and so everything is getting blamed on hormones
throughout it.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
It's perimenopause, it's menopause.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So there's so many different things that people are just
saying it's hormones. Everybody goes through this one. It's actually not.
It's it's hormones on top of an existing condition.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
When you talk about these symptoms being different in girls
and boys, I'm curious how they show up for women. Yeah,
like what do we associate as a typical ADHD case
in a woman?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
So you know, for males versus females, And when I'm
saying females assigned female at birth, I think we have
to look at the fact that females present more as
this inattentive picture.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
For there are three different types.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
There's inattentive, there's hyperactive, and there's combined type, which is
a combination of the two of them. Females present more
as this inattentive picture, so like the classic daydreaming, So
difficulty organizing things, difficulty staying on tasks, difficulty forgetting daily
routine like walking out of the house, did I brush
my teeth, did I you know, close the garage?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
All of these things.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Difficulty with you know, people are talking to them and
they can't maintain the conversation or pay attention within the conversation,
getting easily derailed off task, or having difficulty with prolonged
focus in tasks. That's typically how women present, and even
young girls present. Males typically present as this combined type
(06:50):
or hyperactive picture, which is more of what you think
of with that physical impulsivity and hyperverbosity. So they're super talkative,
they are interrupting, they're being disruptive in class, they're fidgety,
they're getting up, they're running around. So those are the
things that maybe the female presents like that, but it
is you know, it's shut down. My behavior is shut
(07:13):
down pretty quickly, and you know they're not the ones
typically running around. There's not they're not the ones getting
kind of a past, so they mask those symptoms.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I keep reading about studies that say that all of
our attention spans are decreasing at a rapid rate. So
I can imagine people listening thinking, well, my attention span
is sort of low, Like, what is the marker of
regular sort of twenty twenty four lack of attention Instagram
(07:42):
era versus a woman who suffers from ADHD.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
So I think it's important to note that brain mod
is for real, right, that's something that we are in
an increasingly digital age, and we are attention is constantly
being fragmented by one hundred million things, by notifications, by dings,
by social media, by you know, work, all these different reasons. Yeah,
(08:07):
so it's hard to distinguish that. But what we're looking
for with ADHD is that this is a pervasive pattern
of behavior since childhood. So this isn't just a twenty
twenty four problem. This is coming from a really young age.
This is something that's causing significant dysfunction to your life.
And this is where a lot of people have issues
with the terminology of ADHD. Like the name ADHD attention
(08:32):
deficit hyperactivity disorder, not great I don't love the name, honestly,
but a lot of people have beef with the disorder part,
and I think the disorder part is actually really important
because ADHD causes dysfunction. It is a disorder. So it's
not a lot of people, you know, when they're talking
about ADHD within the context of neurodivergence and feeling like, oh,
(08:54):
everybody's brain works a little bit differently. I think that's
entirely true. But I also think that the disorder is
really important because it causes that person dysfunction and it
feels like a disorder and it is negatively impacting their lives.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Right. I rarely do this. I'm literally taking notes as
you're speaking, because this all just feels so relevant, Like
for me personally, I've wondered if I have it or
have a later in life diagnosis. As a parent, I
think this is so informative. Let's talk about late diagnosis
(09:32):
and how it impacts women. So I've heard anecdotally, you know,
stories of mothers who have reportedly discovered their own ADHD
after their children are diagnosed, because it's the first time
that it really causes them to think about how these
symptoms might be impacting them. How does a late diagnosis
(09:52):
impact us?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, so the unfortunate thing is statistically males get diagnosed
between six and eight years old. It's so early. Females
their average age of diagnosis is their mid thirties. WHOA,
so this is not it's not late, like this is
our average time of diagnosis, which is really unfortunate because
(10:14):
they present at the same time. It just gets skipped
and ignored, or or people just get passed from grade
to grade to grade and they don't really you know,
no one picks up on it or is unwilling to
do things about it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well. Also, then, like these women have suffered all throughout
studying for tests in school and college, potentially college years
and early work years.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
It's not even just that, Danielle.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
The thing that I really like think is worth talking
about with ADHG is it's not just a focus issue.
I think the scope of the DSM is kind of narrow,
but ADHD bleeds into everything else.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
If you don't have enough attention to.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Like figure out what's happening actively in your life, you're
also are falling apart at home and so your homelike
gets impacted, your relationships are impacted, you are the way
you integrate with the rest of the world is impacted.
So these women that are getting diagnosed much later in life,
they've gone through a significant portion of their formative years
without a diagnosis, without understanding how their brain works, and
(11:19):
instead getting, you know, the input that I'm lazy, I'm dumb,
i can't live up to my potential, I'm not as
good as anybody else. And so that's what I think.
We're dealing with an entire generation of women that were
skipped and that are now kind of making amends and
you know, helping their children through this while also trying
(11:40):
to heal themselves. So it's a really complicated and confusing
snapshot of their lives.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Well, speaking of coming a long way, you've said that
the diagnostic criteria basically all comes from a book called
the DSM. Yeah, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
I learned about this manual about four years ago. It's
it encapsulates basically every mental disorder you can think of. Yes,
(12:10):
but in the DSM, the criteria for ADHD is really
centered around focus. And I know we've been talking about
other symptoms, but ones that you've mentioned that are not
focused enough on our anxiety and mood. How does that
sort of like come up in people with ADHD.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Honestly, I think with I see it a lot in
patience of mind. I've also experienced this myself. I think
they travel hand in hand. And so if your ADHD
is unregulated and not properly controlled, you get overwhelmed, you
get exhausted, you get it looks like depression, it looks
like anxiety because you're trying to make up for these
(12:51):
deficits and can't. A lot of times, like without proper
instruction or methods to cope, it's really difficult to stay
on top of these things. And so I think that
you know, a lot of women get diagnosed with depression
that get diagnosed with anxiety, but really you need to
look at that underlying cause. So I think that like
(13:13):
in a dream world situation, the DSM would have like
a line in there, or like a credentialing kind of
thing where it's like, okay, well we will look at
the criteria for depression and anxiety, but is ADHD the
cause of it. If that's the case, then ADHD is
a diagnosis rather than ADHD.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Plus, these are those things.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back with doctor Sasha Hamdanni. And we're back with
doctor Sasha Humdannie.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
You mentioned earlier that one of or some of the
symptoms that women deal with, particularly when they're younger, get internalized. Yeah,
what are the symptoms that we don't talk about as much?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I think, like if you're strictly going along with the DSM.
I think one of the biggest things is that, partially
because of the name attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, people get
really hung up on like, oh, if I have ADG,
I have to be hyperactive. You don't have to be
what you think of typically as hyperactive. It could be
(14:21):
like a mental hyperactivity that your brain is moving along
and clipping along so quickly that it's hard to organize
thoughts or categorize thoughts or figure out what your next
steps are. I think a very commonly overlooked one that
people usually call stress or momi brain is this feeling
of being catastrophically overwhelmed, just like all of these things
(14:44):
piling up on your plate and not knowing where to
start or how to attack the problem. And with this
like that problem gets compounded like every single day you're
not addressing the underlying issue. Your problems are getting bigger
and more complicated and increasingly more difficult to solve. So
I think that's one really important thing that we don't
talk about enough.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So you've mentioned hyperactivity.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I've heard you talk about two other subtypes of ADHD,
which are inattentive and combined. How do each of these
three how are they distinguished from each other?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, so, I mean the way that we make our
diagnosis is based on this set of criteria in the DSM,
which is the guidebook for symptomology and medical criteria. So
the hyperactive is more of what you think about with
impulsivity and hyperactivity, like difficulty staying in your seat and
(15:41):
you're constantly fidgeting, and you are talking a lot, interrupting
a lot, blurting on an answer, not letting other people
participate in conversation. And then combined type is a combination
of both of those. You need to hit a certain
number and have a combination of both criteria.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
When you mentioned hormones, my first thought was I recently
interviewed a woman who is making a running shoe, a
performance shoe for women. I was unaware, but most of
the running shoes that we're all wearing are actually basically
made from male molds, and we're just wearing smaller sizes.
And when I was asking her what the impacts are,
(16:19):
one of the things she brought up was that our
hormones actually really affect our physiology and how we're running,
and that we need certain things at different times of
the months. But the issue is that it's completely understudied
and it's expensive to study hormones. I was really interested
to see you talk about how much hormones can impact
(16:40):
ADHD and our experience with it as women.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Can you elaborate on that a bit?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I think you're absolutely right. I think this is a
hugely understudied area because hormones are fluctuant with ADHD. How
this presents its actually really distinct, and really important to
note is because with those hormonal cycles, and you know,
if we're talking about the menstrual cycle, there is a
(17:07):
period of time premenstrually, so before your period actually starts
where your estrogen drops. Okay, fine, whatever you might be,
you know, PMS, having all of those symptoms. But what
people don't also kind of notice is that estrogen and
dopamine kind of go hand in hand. So when your
estrogen levels drop, your dopamine levels drop, and that just
(17:30):
leads to this chaos. In all of a sudden, you're
unable to do simple tests that you were able to
do before. So you're having a much harder time with
like planning how to do things, executing tasks, making sure
things get done. You're dropping the balls on things, and
so it gets even more confusing because then you're just like, well,
I know I feel bad, but it's because I'm not
(17:51):
getting as much done or I'm not But people don't
actually put those two things together, that your hormones are
making your ADHD symptoms worse, and so that's you know,
these are some of the things that you look at
when you're doing an assessment for someone like do you
have a cyclical variation? Do you notice your symptoms get worse?
(18:14):
Which is why I think it is so so, so
so so vital to track your patterns.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I'm so mad right now. I gotta be honest, I'm
so upset. I'm so upset that I am just now
finding out about all of this at thirty six years old,
Like that is so messed up. I know, I've learned
so much about my body in the past few years,
particularly since I became a mom, and I know where
I am in my cycle at all times. I know
that my lutel phase is going to be chaos every month.
(18:43):
But you just helped me make the connection between my
desire to seek out dopamine inducing experiences and also my
lack of focus during that week before my period.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, and I spone, don't even feel bad about that
because I literally I'd gone to school essentially the entirety
of my whole life to do psychiatry to learn about
the brain. And it wasn't until you know, it was
during COVID that I was like, oh god, you know
it is so it was so hard to stay on
(19:16):
top of my ADHD symptoms, and so I started thinking about, like,
what are ways that I could make this better and
reach more people with this, And so my sister and
I created an app. And one of the things on
the app is like a focus tracking thing where you
get to see your patterns and you see it very visually.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I did that.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
So when I was beta testing this app, I did
eight months of that. It was a four day period
every single month where I was like I was tracking
my impulsivity, and I was like, oh, my impulsivity is high,
and my impulsivity is high.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It would be four days.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
And then I went back and I looked at my
credit card statement and there was a six hundred dollars
bump like on average those four days. And it's because
I was just sitting, not like spacing out and like
going on Amazon or going on Revolve or going on
I just was doing this so mindlessly. And then I
was like, that's so weird. Why does this happen every
day and every time at the end of the month.
(20:10):
And I was like, Oh, okay, that's why it's so hormonal.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
As you're sharing more about your own symptoms, I'm really
curious about your own diagnosis and how old were you
when you were diagnosed the.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
First or the second time. I was diagnosed kind of
twice both.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I didn't know you could be diagnosed twice.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Okay, So the first time, I was in fourth grade,
and it was like I was just I presented kind
of like a boywood. I was super disruptive. I was
starting riots in my classroom. I was like getting up
on the desk. I was just out of control.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Also legend though, legend.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
So you know, the teachers in the school taxed my parents.
My mom was a pediatrician, and she's like, okay, yeah,
there could be something. She got me in to see,
like somebody. I was diagnosed with ADHD and I actually
started medication. Now this was many years ago, and it
(21:13):
was still super super stigmatized. I was a really sensitive
little kid. My parents didn't tell me I had ADHD.
They just gave me my vitamins. So every day I
took my in vitamins and I felt better, and I
started doing really well in school and enjoying school. And
I did I continued to do well. I didn't change
my dose. I didn't do anything, continue to do well
all throughout high school. Got into medical school out of
(21:34):
high school, and that was the first time I was
away from home.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I obviously, you skipped college. You're a genius.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
So I did college and med school at the same time.
Oh my gosh, So I applied. I got into this program.
So I started my med school classes when I was seventeen.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
So I got into my classes and I was used
to being awesome. Like in high school, I was awesome.
I was on top of it. I didn't have to.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Try really hard.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I was just like great at school and I really
loved it. I got into med school. I had a
neurology test and they would like post the scores on
the board and you'd go and find your number and
figure out which your thing was. And I remember going
to that thing and I was like, oh my god,
somebody got a thirty two. What is wrong with this person?
And then I was like, oh wait, that was me.
(22:23):
I got a thirty two.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
What did the thirty two mean?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It was a test in like a neurobiology lab, so
you were like writing down, like, okay, these are the
structures of brain. And I was like, I study, I
don't understand. I went I went to a teacher. I
was like, this is impossible. How did this happen? I
didn't turn over the test, so I turned in the exam.
Didn't turn it over.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Oh I've done that.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And I was like, oh my god, I've made this
mistake like four times this month. Like I did this
with a homework assignment, I did this with a lab
and I was like, there is something wrong with me.
This happened again and again and again, and I was like,
like it got so bad to the point where they
were like you need to, Like, I don't think you're
gonna make it through. So my dad at this point
(23:09):
was just like, you know what, come home, let's figure
out what's going on.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
So I go home.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He was like, are you taking vitamins? I was like,
I don't know where they are, so no, obviously no,
I'm not. Oh wow, and he's like, okay, so you
have ADHD. I was like, there's no way, There's no way.
I was super angry. I felt really betrayed. I felt like,
you know, I was given medication without my knowledge.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
You know, I just didn't believe it. I go back
to school. I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Gonna try with now. I know I don't have a medication.
I'll prove to you I don't have ADG, for sure
have ADG. It didn't get easier. I was just falling
more and more behind. My dad pulls me out again.
We sit and he's like, I don't want you to
worry about school. He's like, for the next week or
however long they have, we will just go and study
the So we were going to the library and we
(24:02):
were like reading about ADHD. We're reading about the brain,
We're reading about these like different like brain structures and
how people grew and developed and like from evolution and genetics,
and I mean, it was just incredible the amount of
information I got. And then after that I was assessed again.
They were like, yeah, you have ADHD. And so then
(24:25):
I got more ownership of like, Okay, now I understand
how my brain works a little bit more.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
What do I want to do? What are the medications
going to do?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
And then I was just trial and error with medications
and then that's my story.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Your dad sounds awesome.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, he was the most.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I mean, and my mom super My mom is a pediatrician,
really really educated about this stuff, but my dad was
the most.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
He was my biggest cheerleader always.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I thought about this and I was like, you know,
I wish they had like it had been handled differently
or I had been explained. Yeah, but I don't think
they had been given that knowledge either. It was just
this highly stigmatized thing. They were like, honestly, we got
that information. We were scared. Like the information we were
given is like, this is psychiatric disorder. People typically don't
(25:15):
live alone, you know, if they have ADHD. And so
they were like it sounded horrible We didn't know how
to frame that to you. We just wanted to try
something to see if it helped. It did it never
came up again, so we've come a long way since.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Then It's time for another short break, But don't go
anywhere because we'll be right back to wellness Wednesday with
doctor Sasha Hamdannie.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And we're back with doctor Sasha Hamdannie. Well, I want
to talk about how you manage your ADHD. You mentioned
going through the pandemic and how that really revealed to
you a lot of the patterns that ADHD has brought
into your life. And I'm curious, what did the pandemic
teach you about how environment and circumstance play a role
(26:13):
in the management of this condition.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So I think it has a lot to do with it, right,
So I struggled for a long time throughout medical school
trying to figure out like what the right combination of
medication and altered my environment could be.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
I got through medical.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
School, but I don't feel like I gained mastery or
ownership of it until I got into like psychiatry residency,
because as soon as I landed there, I was surrounded
by psychiatrists and therapists and they were just like, oh,
let me help you, let me, let me make your
life easier. And it was like a crack, like three
years of intensive like restructuring and building up my self
(26:54):
esteem again, which had been basically zero after medical school.
And so I think that they in that program, I
think they kind of also taught me how to manipulate
the environments that I'm in for the greatest success. And
so I think that's what's been the greatest thing that
(27:15):
I've learned from that, Like what do I need to
do to adjust the environment that I'm in to make
it more conducive for my brain. They'll give you some examples,
like for me, I don't learn if I'm typing on
a computer, and so like even with my patients, I
take notes on the computer. I put their information on
a medical chart in the in the computer, but while
(27:37):
they're talking, I'm writing because it's going into my brain.
And that's that's how I learn, and that's how I'm
absorbing what you're telling me. Things like with sleep and
with waking up, I tried as much as I can
to keep to the same routine. I need to kind
of manipulate my schedule or plan things so it's not
running past that ten PM because if I get if
(27:58):
I'm not in bed by like eleven, things get real
weird the next day. So like trying to figure out
things like that. Eating was a huge, huge thing for
me because it's taken me a long time to figure out,
like how to eat to sustain and nourish my body
in a way that's gonna not make me feel number
one disgusting, where I'm like, I'm forcing myself to eat
(28:20):
and I hate every second of it. But something that's
going to help my brain? What can I What can
I eat that's not going to make me sleepy? What
can I eat to give me long lasting energy? What
can I eat at night to keep me full through
the night so I'm not waking up at two am
and I'm like, oh, I'm hungry and fully awake.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
If people listening feel like any of these symptoms ring true,
or they have a suspicion that maybe they have gone undiagnosed,
what do you think the first step is?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
What do you suggest that they do?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
My first step is learn about it as much as
you can. I mean even before you go to a doctor.
If you just immerse yourself in it, because I think
that you are the only person who understands your own
internal environment. And it's important to have a vocabulary and
learn about things because you might get into and be like, oh,
that actually doesn't sound like me, or you might get
(29:10):
into it and be like, oh, this really does sound
like me, Like and I didn't even realize that this
was related to it. So having understanding that is going
to be huge. Number two, Track your patterns, Track your patterns,
and this is like why it keep screaming about it,
because then you're going to know, like is there a
hormonal swing with it? Is there times where like is
(29:31):
this all caused because I did not drink a single
glass of water for the entire month of October?
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Yes? Probably?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
And then if you still feel strongly about it, it's
seeking out the right type of help. So you can
get assessments through a therapist. You can get assessments through
a primary care doctor, you get assessment through a psychiatrist.
Psychiatrist not only can they diagnose you, but they can
treat you. If medication is the option you want to
go through, and I think getting specific therapy, like I
(29:59):
will tell tell you that I would not be in
the position that I am right now if I hadn't
had those instructors giving me that specific therapy and helping
me kind of restructure my life because it you know,
with medication, it's great, but when the medication wears off,
I'm still still have stuff to do. So it's important
to have those good basics to build on.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Okay, you developed an app that you mentioned earlier that's
geared to be an ADHD companion. I need to better
understand this. From what I read, it's really about tracking patterns.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
So Focus Jamie is the name of the app, and
it's kind of just like this comprehensive platform. So it's
got educational modules, which I mean they're just like, really
it feels like an Instagram swipe through you're going, but
like by the end of that two minutes you have
learned something new about your brain. So there's educational modules.
There's a focus tracker where you could track like how
(30:57):
much water I drank, this is what I ate, this
is how much I slept, this is how impulsive I was,
and so you can see your patterns over the month.
There's a journal. There's also this is coming out later
this month, and I'm actually so excited about this. I
felt like where I was getting stuck is sometimes I
was like, I can't even make my to do list,
Like I can't even break down this task because it
(31:18):
is so complicated and hard and overwhelming for me right now.
But we just integrated AI into the app, so now
you type in what you want to do, it'll break
it down for you in eight steps. If you're still
having difficulty with it, it'll break it down further. You
can import that into your to do list and you
(31:38):
can go through and continue along your day.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I love that. That's so good. I can't wait to
download this app. I feel like, even if you don't
have ADHD, your app sounds so helpful. Yeah, just all
of us living in the digital age.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
It kind of helps break things down because I feel like,
especially with housework, especially with stuff that is so boring
to me, so boring that I don't want to do it.
I really like being able to break things into those
tiny little chunks.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Doctor Humdannie, thank you so much. This sum was really enlightening.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Thank you for having me. That's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
You're the coolest psychiatrist ever.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Oh come on, come on, be real.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Doctor Sasha Hamdani is a Board certified psychiatrist and the
author of Self Care for People with ADHD. You can
find her on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube as the psych
Doctor MD.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking with j
Hay Kim. She's the author of City of night Birds,
which was selected as the December pick for Reese's Book Club.
Thank you to our partners at coli Guard, the one
of a kind way to screen for colon cancer in
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your doctor or healthcare provider, or go to coliguard dot
com slash podcast to see if you are eligible to
(32:56):
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prescription today at coliguard dot com slash podcast. Join the
conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect with us
on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and at
the bright Side Pod on TikTok Oh, and feel free
(33:19):
to tag us at simone Voice and at Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
And we'll see you tomorrow. Y'all, keep looking on the
bright side.
Hello Sunshine, Hey besties. Today on the bright Side, it's
Wellness Wednesday and we are running an encore presentation of
our conversation with board certified psychiatrist and ADHD specialist, doctor
Sasha Hamdani. It's Wednesday, December eighteenth. I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to
share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coliguard.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and according to
the CDC, it's one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders
of childhood and often lasts into adulthood.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
That's true, but what's really fascinating about this is that
women and girls are underdiagnosed and undertreated when it comes
to ADHD, and identifying symptoms of ADHD can manifest differently
depending on age and gender.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, Simone, I actually feel like particularly interested in
hearing from doctor Hamdani because you've said before that you
feel like you.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Have some symptoms of ADHD.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, I've definitely had my questions and my doubts for
a long time about my inability to focus. I identify
as a hyper girly, so maybe there's something to that.
But I think if you're chronically online, you've probably seen
this conversation pop up on social media. It seems like
people are talking about it more and more, and there
(01:34):
are upsides to that, but there are also downsides. Some
of the downsides include misinformation, like are we really getting
the truth when we're engaging in these discussions online. So
that's why it's really important to bring in the experts,
someone like doctor Sasha Hamdani, who knows her stuff, is
one of the upsides.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Doing viral Instagram videos with your husband in a pool
about being hyper.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I don't know if my husband would call it enough side.
I certainly enjoyed that experience.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I certainly feel it's an upside as if you were
I do. But okay, jokes aside, because this is a
serious topic. Joining us today to answer all of our
questions and clear up any misconceptions about ADHD is doctor
Sasha Hamdannie. She's a psychiatrist, the author of Self Care
for People with ADHD, And what feels very unique is
(02:25):
she's someone who has ADHD herself, You might recognize her
from social media, where she shares insights on ADHD and
mental health to her almost two million fans across platforms.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So let's bring her in.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Doctor Sasha Hamdannie, Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Huh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
We're so happy to have you. You are a board
certified psychiatrist. You also have ADHD yourself, and you actually
disappeared at the White House to talk about this very subject,
so we are in such good hands. Why do you
feel called to speak out about ADHD awareness.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Well, partially because I have it, and so it comes
very naturally because this is something that I'm speaking about
from firsthand experience, but also because.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I think as.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Someone who has lived through it, it's really frustrating trying
to navigate these waters with one. For a long time,
there wasn't a lot of great information about it. Yeah,
and number two, there was a lot of stigma around it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I mean, women are historically underdiagnosed and untreated when it
comes to ADHD. Yes, from your research and just your
experience as someone who lives with this condition and speaking
to others about it, why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
How much time do you have because I could go
on before we have time. Honestly, I could write volumes
on this, just because it is such a rich area
of why women are under or misdiagnosed, and so some
of the reasons they're just historical.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
For a long time, eighty was considered as like something
that hyper little boys have, and it was outside of
the scope of everything else, like if a woman was diagnosed, Nope,
you don't have it, because it was only hyper little boys.
The other reason is that women have different societal pressures
and so they are, you know, trained from a very
(04:19):
young age you have to conform, you have to do
these things. You can't cause trouble, you can't act up
in class, you have to So they're forced to mask
all these symptoms and kind of toe the line. Whereas
you know, they're feeling all these things, they're feeling restless there,
feeling impulsive, but they are so afraid of getting in
trouble or they're told like, you cannot be anything besides
(04:40):
this one image, and so they just hide their symptoms
because that's what they're told to do. They hide in
a mask. So that's another thing. Another humongous thing is hormones.
There is a huge correlation between hormonal cycles and ADHD expression,
and so like for example, with PMDD or PMS, people's
(05:01):
symptoms just like body symptoms, everything gets worse. But then
your focus also and executive function gets significantly worse. And
so a lot of times when people are going to
the doctor, they might be on their cyclone. People are
just like, it's puberty, or it's it's hormones, or it's
mommy brain, and so everything is getting blamed on hormones
throughout it.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
It's perimenopause, it's menopause.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
So there's so many different things that people are just
saying it's hormones. Everybody goes through this one. It's actually not.
It's it's hormones on top of an existing condition.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
When you talk about these symptoms being different in girls
and boys, I'm curious how they show up for women. Yeah,
like what do we associate as a typical ADHD case
in a woman?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
So you know, for males versus females, And when I'm
saying females assigned female at birth, I think we have
to look at the fact that females present more as
this inattentive picture.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
For there are three different types.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
There's inattentive, there's hyperactive, and there's combined type, which is
a combination of the two of them. Females present more
as this inattentive picture, so like the classic daydreaming, So
difficulty organizing things, difficulty staying on tasks, difficulty forgetting daily
routine like walking out of the house, did I brush
my teeth, did I you know, close the garage?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
All of these things.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Difficulty with you know, people are talking to them and
they can't maintain the conversation or pay attention within the conversation,
getting easily derailed off task, or having difficulty with prolonged
focus in tasks. That's typically how women present, and even
young girls present. Males typically present as this combined type
(06:50):
or hyperactive picture, which is more of what you think
of with that physical impulsivity and hyperverbosity. So they're super talkative,
they are interrupting, they're being disruptive in class, they're fidgety,
they're getting up, they're running around. So those are the
things that maybe the female presents like that, but it
is you know, it's shut down. My behavior is shut
(07:13):
down pretty quickly, and you know they're not the ones
typically running around. There's not they're not the ones getting
kind of a past, so they mask those symptoms.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I keep reading about studies that say that all of
our attention spans are decreasing at a rapid rate. So
I can imagine people listening thinking, well, my attention span
is sort of low, Like, what is the marker of
regular sort of twenty twenty four lack of attention Instagram
(07:42):
era versus a woman who suffers from ADHD.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
So I think it's important to note that brain mod
is for real, right, that's something that we are in
an increasingly digital age, and we are attention is constantly
being fragmented by one hundred million things, by notifications, by dings,
by social media, by you know, work, all these different reasons. Yeah,
(08:07):
so it's hard to distinguish that. But what we're looking
for with ADHD is that this is a pervasive pattern
of behavior since childhood. So this isn't just a twenty
twenty four problem. This is coming from a really young age.
This is something that's causing significant dysfunction to your life.
And this is where a lot of people have issues
with the terminology of ADHD. Like the name ADHD attention
(08:32):
deficit hyperactivity disorder, not great I don't love the name, honestly,
but a lot of people have beef with the disorder part,
and I think the disorder part is actually really important
because ADHD causes dysfunction. It is a disorder. So it's
not a lot of people, you know, when they're talking
about ADHD within the context of neurodivergence and feeling like, oh,
(08:54):
everybody's brain works a little bit differently. I think that's
entirely true. But I also think that the disorder is
really important because it causes that person dysfunction and it
feels like a disorder and it is negatively impacting their lives.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Right. I rarely do this. I'm literally taking notes as
you're speaking, because this all just feels so relevant, Like
for me personally, I've wondered if I have it or
have a later in life diagnosis. As a parent, I
think this is so informative. Let's talk about late diagnosis
(09:32):
and how it impacts women. So I've heard anecdotally, you know,
stories of mothers who have reportedly discovered their own ADHD
after their children are diagnosed, because it's the first time
that it really causes them to think about how these
symptoms might be impacting them. How does a late diagnosis
(09:52):
impact us?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, so the unfortunate thing is statistically males get diagnosed
between six and eight years old. It's so early. Females
their average age of diagnosis is their mid thirties. WHOA,
so this is not it's not late, like this is
our average time of diagnosis, which is really unfortunate because
(10:14):
they present at the same time. It just gets skipped
and ignored, or or people just get passed from grade
to grade to grade and they don't really you know,
no one picks up on it or is unwilling to
do things about it.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well. Also, then, like these women have suffered all throughout
studying for tests in school and college, potentially college years
and early work years.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
It's not even just that, Danielle.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
The thing that I really like think is worth talking
about with ADHG is it's not just a focus issue.
I think the scope of the DSM is kind of narrow,
but ADHD bleeds into everything else.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
If you don't have enough attention to.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Like figure out what's happening actively in your life, you're
also are falling apart at home and so your homelike
gets impacted, your relationships are impacted, you are the way
you integrate with the rest of the world is impacted.
So these women that are getting diagnosed much later in life,
they've gone through a significant portion of their formative years
without a diagnosis, without understanding how their brain works, and
(11:19):
instead getting, you know, the input that I'm lazy, I'm dumb,
i can't live up to my potential, I'm not as
good as anybody else. And so that's what I think.
We're dealing with an entire generation of women that were
skipped and that are now kind of making amends and
you know, helping their children through this while also trying
(11:40):
to heal themselves. So it's a really complicated and confusing
snapshot of their lives.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Well, speaking of coming a long way, you've said that
the diagnostic criteria basically all comes from a book called
the DSM. Yeah, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
I learned about this manual about four years ago. It's
it encapsulates basically every mental disorder you can think of. Yes,
(12:10):
but in the DSM, the criteria for ADHD is really
centered around focus. And I know we've been talking about
other symptoms, but ones that you've mentioned that are not
focused enough on our anxiety and mood. How does that
sort of like come up in people with ADHD.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Honestly, I think with I see it a lot in
patience of mind. I've also experienced this myself. I think
they travel hand in hand. And so if your ADHD
is unregulated and not properly controlled, you get overwhelmed, you
get exhausted, you get it looks like depression, it looks
like anxiety because you're trying to make up for these
(12:51):
deficits and can't. A lot of times, like without proper
instruction or methods to cope, it's really difficult to stay
on top of these things. And so I think that
you know, a lot of women get diagnosed with depression
that get diagnosed with anxiety, but really you need to
look at that underlying cause. So I think that like
(13:13):
in a dream world situation, the DSM would have like
a line in there, or like a credentialing kind of
thing where it's like, okay, well we will look at
the criteria for depression and anxiety, but is ADHD the
cause of it. If that's the case, then ADHD is
a diagnosis rather than ADHD.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Plus, these are those things.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back with doctor Sasha Hamdanni. And we're back with
doctor Sasha Humdannie.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
You mentioned earlier that one of or some of the
symptoms that women deal with, particularly when they're younger, get internalized. Yeah,
what are the symptoms that we don't talk about as much?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I think, like if you're strictly going along with the DSM.
I think one of the biggest things is that, partially
because of the name attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, people get
really hung up on like, oh, if I have ADG,
I have to be hyperactive. You don't have to be
what you think of typically as hyperactive. It could be
(14:21):
like a mental hyperactivity that your brain is moving along
and clipping along so quickly that it's hard to organize
thoughts or categorize thoughts or figure out what your next
steps are. I think a very commonly overlooked one that
people usually call stress or momi brain is this feeling
of being catastrophically overwhelmed, just like all of these things
(14:44):
piling up on your plate and not knowing where to
start or how to attack the problem. And with this
like that problem gets compounded like every single day you're
not addressing the underlying issue. Your problems are getting bigger
and more complicated and increasingly more difficult to solve. So
I think that's one really important thing that we don't
talk about enough.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So you've mentioned hyperactivity.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I've heard you talk about two other subtypes of ADHD,
which are inattentive and combined. How do each of these
three how are they distinguished from each other?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, so, I mean the way that we make our
diagnosis is based on this set of criteria in the DSM,
which is the guidebook for symptomology and medical criteria. So
the hyperactive is more of what you think about with
impulsivity and hyperactivity, like difficulty staying in your seat and
(15:41):
you're constantly fidgeting, and you are talking a lot, interrupting
a lot, blurting on an answer, not letting other people
participate in conversation. And then combined type is a combination
of both of those. You need to hit a certain
number and have a combination of both criteria.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
When you mentioned hormones, my first thought was I recently
interviewed a woman who is making a running shoe, a
performance shoe for women. I was unaware, but most of
the running shoes that we're all wearing are actually basically
made from male molds, and we're just wearing smaller sizes.
And when I was asking her what the impacts are,
(16:19):
one of the things she brought up was that our
hormones actually really affect our physiology and how we're running,
and that we need certain things at different times of
the months. But the issue is that it's completely understudied
and it's expensive to study hormones. I was really interested
to see you talk about how much hormones can impact
(16:40):
ADHD and our experience with it as women.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Can you elaborate on that a bit?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I think you're absolutely right. I think this is a
hugely understudied area because hormones are fluctuant with ADHD. How
this presents its actually really distinct, and really important to
note is because with those hormonal cycles, and you know,
if we're talking about the menstrual cycle, there is a
(17:07):
period of time premenstrually, so before your period actually starts
where your estrogen drops. Okay, fine, whatever you might be,
you know, PMS, having all of those symptoms. But what
people don't also kind of notice is that estrogen and
dopamine kind of go hand in hand. So when your
estrogen levels drop, your dopamine levels drop, and that just
(17:30):
leads to this chaos. In all of a sudden, you're
unable to do simple tests that you were able to
do before. So you're having a much harder time with
like planning how to do things, executing tasks, making sure
things get done. You're dropping the balls on things, and
so it gets even more confusing because then you're just like, well,
I know I feel bad, but it's because I'm not
(17:51):
getting as much done or I'm not But people don't
actually put those two things together, that your hormones are
making your ADHD symptoms worse, and so that's you know,
these are some of the things that you look at
when you're doing an assessment for someone like do you
have a cyclical variation? Do you notice your symptoms get worse?
(18:14):
Which is why I think it is so so, so
so so vital to track your patterns.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I'm so mad right now. I gotta be honest, I'm
so upset. I'm so upset that I am just now
finding out about all of this at thirty six years old,
Like that is so messed up. I know, I've learned
so much about my body in the past few years,
particularly since I became a mom, and I know where
I am in my cycle at all times. I know
that my lutel phase is going to be chaos every month.
(18:43):
But you just helped me make the connection between my
desire to seek out dopamine inducing experiences and also my
lack of focus during that week before my period.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, and I spone, don't even feel bad about that
because I literally I'd gone to school essentially the entirety
of my whole life to do psychiatry to learn about
the brain. And it wasn't until you know, it was
during COVID that I was like, oh god, you know
it is so it was so hard to stay on
(19:16):
top of my ADHD symptoms, and so I started thinking about, like,
what are ways that I could make this better and
reach more people with this, And so my sister and
I created an app. And one of the things on
the app is like a focus tracking thing where you
get to see your patterns and you see it very visually.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I did that.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
So when I was beta testing this app, I did
eight months of that. It was a four day period
every single month where I was like I was tracking
my impulsivity, and I was like, oh, my impulsivity is high,
and my impulsivity is high.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It would be four days.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
And then I went back and I looked at my
credit card statement and there was a six hundred dollars
bump like on average those four days. And it's because
I was just sitting, not like spacing out and like
going on Amazon or going on Revolve or going on
I just was doing this so mindlessly. And then I
was like, that's so weird. Why does this happen every
day and every time at the end of the month.
(20:10):
And I was like, Oh, okay, that's why it's so hormonal.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
As you're sharing more about your own symptoms, I'm really
curious about your own diagnosis and how old were you
when you were diagnosed the.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
First or the second time. I was diagnosed kind of
twice both.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I didn't know you could be diagnosed twice.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Okay, So the first time, I was in fourth grade,
and it was like I was just I presented kind
of like a boywood. I was super disruptive. I was
starting riots in my classroom. I was like getting up
on the desk. I was just out of control.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Also legend though, legend.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
So you know, the teachers in the school taxed my parents.
My mom was a pediatrician, and she's like, okay, yeah,
there could be something. She got me in to see,
like somebody. I was diagnosed with ADHD and I actually
started medication. Now this was many years ago, and it
(21:13):
was still super super stigmatized. I was a really sensitive
little kid. My parents didn't tell me I had ADHD.
They just gave me my vitamins. So every day I
took my in vitamins and I felt better, and I
started doing really well in school and enjoying school. And
I did I continued to do well. I didn't change
my dose. I didn't do anything, continue to do well
all throughout high school. Got into medical school out of
(21:34):
high school, and that was the first time I was
away from home.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I obviously, you skipped college. You're a genius.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
So I did college and med school at the same time.
Oh my gosh, So I applied. I got into this program.
So I started my med school classes when I was seventeen.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
So I got into my classes and I was used
to being awesome. Like in high school, I was awesome.
I was on top of it. I didn't have to.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Try really hard.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I was just like great at school and I really
loved it. I got into med school. I had a
neurology test and they would like post the scores on
the board and you'd go and find your number and
figure out which your thing was. And I remember going
to that thing and I was like, oh my god,
somebody got a thirty two. What is wrong with this person?
And then I was like, oh wait, that was me.
(22:23):
I got a thirty two.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
What did the thirty two mean?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It was a test in like a neurobiology lab, so
you were like writing down, like, okay, these are the
structures of brain. And I was like, I study, I
don't understand. I went I went to a teacher. I
was like, this is impossible. How did this happen? I
didn't turn over the test, so I turned in the exam.
Didn't turn it over.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Oh I've done that.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And I was like, oh my god, I've made this
mistake like four times this month. Like I did this
with a homework assignment, I did this with a lab
and I was like, there is something wrong with me.
This happened again and again and again, and I was like,
like it got so bad to the point where they
were like you need to, Like, I don't think you're
gonna make it through. So my dad at this point
(23:09):
was just like, you know what, come home, let's figure
out what's going on.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
So I go home.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He was like, are you taking vitamins? I was like,
I don't know where they are, so no, obviously no,
I'm not. Oh wow, and he's like, okay, so you
have ADHD. I was like, there's no way, There's no way.
I was super angry. I felt really betrayed. I felt like,
you know, I was given medication without my knowledge.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
You know, I just didn't believe it. I go back
to school. I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Gonna try with now. I know I don't have a medication.
I'll prove to you I don't have ADG, for sure
have ADG. It didn't get easier. I was just falling
more and more behind. My dad pulls me out again.
We sit and he's like, I don't want you to
worry about school. He's like, for the next week or
however long they have, we will just go and study
the So we were going to the library and we
(24:02):
were like reading about ADHD. We're reading about the brain,
We're reading about these like different like brain structures and
how people grew and developed and like from evolution and genetics,
and I mean, it was just incredible the amount of
information I got. And then after that I was assessed again.
They were like, yeah, you have ADHD. And so then
(24:25):
I got more ownership of like, Okay, now I understand
how my brain works a little bit more.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
What do I want to do? What are the medications
going to do?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
And then I was just trial and error with medications
and then that's my story.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Your dad sounds awesome.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, he was the most.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I mean, and my mom super My mom is a pediatrician,
really really educated about this stuff, but my dad was
the most.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
He was my biggest cheerleader always.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
I thought about this and I was like, you know,
I wish they had like it had been handled differently
or I had been explained. Yeah, but I don't think
they had been given that knowledge either. It was just
this highly stigmatized thing. They were like, honestly, we got
that information. We were scared. Like the information we were
given is like, this is psychiatric disorder. People typically don't
(25:15):
live alone, you know, if they have ADHD. And so
they were like it sounded horrible We didn't know how
to frame that to you. We just wanted to try
something to see if it helped. It did it never
came up again, so we've come a long way since.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Then It's time for another short break, But don't go
anywhere because we'll be right back to wellness Wednesday with
doctor Sasha Hamdannie.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And we're back with doctor Sasha Hamdannie. Well, I want
to talk about how you manage your ADHD. You mentioned
going through the pandemic and how that really revealed to
you a lot of the patterns that ADHD has brought
into your life. And I'm curious, what did the pandemic
teach you about how environment and circumstance play a role
(26:13):
in the management of this condition.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So I think it has a lot to do with it, right,
So I struggled for a long time throughout medical school
trying to figure out like what the right combination of
medication and altered my environment could be.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
I got through medical.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
School, but I don't feel like I gained mastery or
ownership of it until I got into like psychiatry residency,
because as soon as I landed there, I was surrounded
by psychiatrists and therapists and they were just like, oh,
let me help you, let me, let me make your
life easier. And it was like a crack, like three
years of intensive like restructuring and building up my self
(26:54):
esteem again, which had been basically zero after medical school.
And so I think that they in that program, I
think they kind of also taught me how to manipulate
the environments that I'm in for the greatest success. And
so I think that's what's been the greatest thing that
(27:15):
I've learned from that, Like what do I need to
do to adjust the environment that I'm in to make
it more conducive for my brain. They'll give you some examples,
like for me, I don't learn if I'm typing on
a computer, and so like even with my patients, I
take notes on the computer. I put their information on
a medical chart in the in the computer, but while
(27:37):
they're talking, I'm writing because it's going into my brain.
And that's that's how I learn, and that's how I'm
absorbing what you're telling me. Things like with sleep and
with waking up, I tried as much as I can
to keep to the same routine. I need to kind
of manipulate my schedule or plan things so it's not
running past that ten PM because if I get if
(27:58):
I'm not in bed by like eleven, things get real
weird the next day. So like trying to figure out
things like that. Eating was a huge, huge thing for
me because it's taken me a long time to figure out,
like how to eat to sustain and nourish my body
in a way that's gonna not make me feel number
one disgusting, where I'm like, I'm forcing myself to eat
(28:20):
and I hate every second of it. But something that's
going to help my brain? What can I What can
I eat that's not going to make me sleepy? What
can I eat to give me long lasting energy? What
can I eat at night to keep me full through
the night so I'm not waking up at two am
and I'm like, oh, I'm hungry and fully awake.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
If people listening feel like any of these symptoms ring true,
or they have a suspicion that maybe they have gone undiagnosed,
what do you think the first step is?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
What do you suggest that they do?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
My first step is learn about it as much as
you can. I mean even before you go to a doctor.
If you just immerse yourself in it, because I think
that you are the only person who understands your own
internal environment. And it's important to have a vocabulary and
learn about things because you might get into and be like, oh,
that actually doesn't sound like me, or you might get
(29:10):
into it and be like, oh, this really does sound
like me, Like and I didn't even realize that this
was related to it. So having understanding that is going
to be huge. Number two, Track your patterns, Track your patterns,
and this is like why it keep screaming about it,
because then you're going to know, like is there a
hormonal swing with it? Is there times where like is
(29:31):
this all caused because I did not drink a single
glass of water for the entire month of October?
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Yes? Probably?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
And then if you still feel strongly about it, it's
seeking out the right type of help. So you can
get assessments through a therapist. You can get assessments through
a primary care doctor, you get assessment through a psychiatrist.
Psychiatrist not only can they diagnose you, but they can
treat you. If medication is the option you want to
go through, and I think getting specific therapy, like I
(29:59):
will tell tell you that I would not be in
the position that I am right now if I hadn't
had those instructors giving me that specific therapy and helping
me kind of restructure my life because it you know,
with medication, it's great, but when the medication wears off,
I'm still still have stuff to do. So it's important
to have those good basics to build on.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Okay, you developed an app that you mentioned earlier that's
geared to be an ADHD companion. I need to better
understand this. From what I read, it's really about tracking patterns.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
So Focus Jamie is the name of the app, and
it's kind of just like this comprehensive platform. So it's
got educational modules, which I mean they're just like, really
it feels like an Instagram swipe through you're going, but
like by the end of that two minutes you have
learned something new about your brain. So there's educational modules.
There's a focus tracker where you could track like how
(30:57):
much water I drank, this is what I ate, this
is how much I slept, this is how impulsive I was,
and so you can see your patterns over the month.
There's a journal. There's also this is coming out later
this month, and I'm actually so excited about this. I
felt like where I was getting stuck is sometimes I
was like, I can't even make my to do list,
Like I can't even break down this task because it
(31:18):
is so complicated and hard and overwhelming for me right now.
But we just integrated AI into the app, so now
you type in what you want to do, it'll break
it down for you in eight steps. If you're still
having difficulty with it, it'll break it down further. You
can import that into your to do list and you
(31:38):
can go through and continue along your day.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I love that. That's so good. I can't wait to
download this app. I feel like, even if you don't
have ADHD, your app sounds so helpful. Yeah, just all
of us living in the digital age.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
It kind of helps break things down because I feel like,
especially with housework, especially with stuff that is so boring
to me, so boring that I don't want to do it.
I really like being able to break things into those
tiny little chunks.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Doctor Humdannie, thank you so much. This sum was really enlightening.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Thank you for having me. That's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
You're the coolest psychiatrist ever.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Oh come on, come on, be real.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Doctor Sasha Hamdani is a Board certified psychiatrist and the
author of Self Care for People with ADHD. You can
find her on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube as the psych
Doctor MD.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking with j
Hay Kim. She's the author of City of night Birds,
which was selected as the December pick for Reese's Book Club.
Thank you to our partners at coli Guard, the one
of a kind way to screen for colon cancer in
the privacy and comfort of your own home. Talk to
your doctor or healthcare provider, or go to coliguard dot
com slash podcast to see if you are eligible to
(32:56):
order online. If you're forty five or older and at
average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon
cancer with Coliguard. You can also request a collar guard
prescription today at coliguard dot com slash podcast. Join the
conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect with us
on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and at
the bright Side Pod on TikTok Oh, and feel free
(33:19):
to tag us at simone Voice and at Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
And we'll see you tomorrow. Y'all, keep looking on the
bright side.
Host
Simone Boyce
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