June 16, 2025 • 39 mins
Rachel Platten became a global force with Fight Song, but few know the silent battle she's fought behind the scenes. In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, Rachel and Simone share raw, unfiltered stories of motherhood, mental health, and finding your voice again. This is Rachel, like you’ve never heard her—vulnerable, luminous, and rooted in a whole new strength.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Today on the bright Side, Award winning singer songwriter Rachel
Plattin is here, y'all. You know her hit record Fight Song, Well,
today we're getting to know the woman behind the anthem.
Rachel is opening up about the invisible storm of postpartum
depression that she walked through and the life saving conversation
that helped her find her way back to the light.
This is Rachel Plattin like you've never heard her before, intentional,
(00:25):
rooted and simply radiant.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
That whole crazy, out of nowhere, stratospheric rise out of
anonymity of thirteen years of like playing around the country
and no one caring, and then all of a sudden boom,
everyone cares, and that rise felt like how do I
keep up with this?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'm smoone voice and this is the bright side from
hell of Sunshine. Okay, y'all, our guest today is Sunshine personified.
I mean truly, I'm talking about award winning singer songwriter
Rachel Plattin. She has a smile that can just light
up a room, y'all, and songs that get me up
on my feet, get me up off my couch. Of course,
(01:03):
I'm thinking about Fight Song. It is that track that
you turn on when you just seed that little boost,
when you know you gotta throw your hair up in
a messy bun, you gotta puff your chest out, put
your shoulders back, handle your business. And although she's best
known as the woman behind this global anthem, I mean,
there is so much more to her story, like the
(01:25):
pressure that comes with being known as the woman behind
an anthem like that. I mean, think about it. You
are known around the world as this woman with this ironclad,
unshakable confidence. But what happens when the woman behind those
lyrics can't find the strength to rise. That's what we're
(01:47):
getting into today because in my conversation with Rachel, I
learned about the invisible mental health battle she fought after
giving birth to her daughter, Sophie Joe, and I discovered
that Rachel and I are actually share some pretty big
parallels in our motherhood journeys, Like we both had our
second babies within a week of each other. And you know,
(02:09):
I've talked about motherhood on this show, but to be honest,
there are parts of my journey as a mother, specifically
in the postpartum period, that I haven't been fully transparent about.
And it's because some parts of that story are super dark,
and I've felt some shame around them, and I've wondered, Man,
(02:31):
is this too dark to talk about? Like, is this
too dark to share? I think sometimes in life there's
this tendency to want to sanitize the hard parts of
life and just like clean them up and make them
more presentable. There is nothing clean and tidy about this conversation.
I'm letting my mess hang out. Rachel's letting her mess
(02:54):
hang out. And that took me by surprise, honestly, Like
I knew that I was going to be talking to
Rachel about her postpartum journey, but in no way did
I expect that I was going to be opening up
in such a profound way. Like I've never met Rachel before.
This was my first time meeting her when we sat
(03:14):
down to record this episode, and yet by the end
of the episode, we're literally like crying and holding each
other and being like, oh my gosh, how did we
not know each other before this. It's just amazing what
happens when you give yourself permission to talk about these experiences,
because that's the dangerous part suffering in silence. It's not
(03:37):
something that we need to do. It's not something that
we have to do. The reality is that these experiences
are far more common than we think. While one in
seven women experience postpartum depression, only six percent of women
seek psychological help. And Rachel is going to be sharing
today that process of seeking help in her own life
(04:01):
and how just the brave act of seeking help potentially
saved her life. I'm gonna be honest, it's scary to
talk about these things. Vulnerability is not something that comes
easily for me, So it's not easy to get on
the mic and open up about stuff like this. But
one of the most hopeful things that I can share today,
and I think a beautiful byproduct of conversations like this,
(04:25):
is that Rachel and I are both thriving on the
other side of postpartum depression. And whether you're a mother
or not, whether that's your journey or not, there is
so much that we can learn from Rachel's mental health journey,
and her latest album, I Am Rachel Platten is a
testament to all the ways that she's grown as an
artist since becoming a mother. So listen to our conversation
(04:49):
and then make sure to give her album and listen
to all right. Here it is my conversation with Rachel Platten.
Rachel Platten, Welcome to the right side.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Hi so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I'm so excited to be here with you, particularly because
I see so much of myself and your motherhood journey.
Oh my kids are almost the exact same age. WHOA Yeah,
I have two boys, Logan and Keenan. My oldest is
about to be five, and then the youngest is three.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, so similar, yes.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And so as. I was just like researching your story
for this interview and hearing you talk about some of
the stuff that you went through, I just felt so seen.
But before we get there, I think we have to
start by talking about your most recent album, I Am
Rachel Platten, and you say that this album saved your
life and that it's almost like your first proper introduction
(05:44):
to the world. It's even in the name, like I
am Rachel Platten. So why do you feel like this
is your first real introduction.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I went through so much trauma and incredibly hard battles
in my mental health, and as I came out of it,
what helped me, among so many tools was songwriting and
turning back to my purpose and my why and I
kind of lost that in the music industry. So writing
(06:14):
the album became like an act of worship for me
of just like remembering myself, remembering why I do this,
remembering who I am. Putting my hands on the piano
reminded me I'm not just a mom that's beaten up
and not doing well. So yeah, writing the album healed
me in a lot of ways that I was struggling
(06:36):
so much and needed it so much for myself that
I was writing it for me, and in that way,
it was so raw and so unfiltered. You know, a
lot of the songs were straight from journal entries with
like tears falling on the page and then they became music.
So I just felt like when it came time to
(06:56):
release it, looking at the body of work, I was
just really amazed that it felt like it really represented
me so fully without yeah, without any like mask on
or anything. So I wanted to claim it and be like,
you don't. You might have known a side of me,
and I'm so grateful to that side, to that empowered
fight song girl, But here's all of me.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
As I'm sitting across from you, you are radiating freedom.
Oh my gosh, you're radiating like liberation. Really thank you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, I feel it, I really feel it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I feel it too. But I think to talk about
the freedom to properly set the stage for that, we
have to talk about the cage first. Yeah, so when
did your mental health struggles start?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Oh, first of all, I had my daughter in twenty nineteen,
probably a better thing to start with. I had my
first daughter, Violet in twenty nineteen, and went on tour
really quickly afterwards. I don't know what I was thinking, Like,
that's insane to me.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Now, how soon after thirty months?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What insane? Rachel?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
What?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I don't know what the dick I was thinking. I
was like I was I think I was really afraid
that motherhood was going to change my life and like change.
I don't know how I was perceived in the industry,
like there's so many rules for women in pop or
there felt like there were. I think they're starting to
kind of get broken down, but at least I felt them,
(08:18):
and I felt pressure to kind of declare, like, this
baby's not going to change my life. I'm going to
strap her on my back, put her on the bus.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I don't know what I've like, we can have it all.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, I can have it all right, and you can't
such a trap right, Like you can but not at
the same time. And I'm like right and sough. So
I went on tour and it was two arenas and
it was like fifteen thousand people twenty thousand people night,
and then I was doing and I was breastfeeding the bus,
but like right afterwards, so I'd get off stage and
I'd run and I'd try to like make the night
(08:48):
feeding and my breast milks while I was dwindling and
my sleep was awful, and I started to suffer from depression,
like really severe anxiety and panic attacks and depression. And
I didn't understand it the time that it was it
had to do with my hormones and the baby. Like
I kind of just was like, well, this is situational,
because this is unnatural to play this many people just
(09:09):
after you did such an internal creative work. And that's
all true, but it was also my hormones. So I
started to suffer with postpartum depression then, and I healed
after I got off that tour, I like slowly but
surely healed. I started to write songs again remember myself
and did like I had so many tools. I had
(09:30):
an incredible therapist and amazing acupuncturist, and that was enough
for that round of my depression, and then started to
really dive back into music. The pandemic happened, and I
turned really deeply inward and was okay, and it was
kind of really like, Wow, I made it through. I'm okay.
I kind of thought that was it. I thought that
was my dark night of the soul. And I was
(09:50):
really proud. And I wrote a song about that at
the time that's on the record, And it was just
so funny that that wasn't even the tip of iceberg
in terms of what I went through.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So you're saying it continued, Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
My god, it was. I got priding with my second
Sophie in twenty twenty one. They were they're like two
and a half years apart.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
My son was born in uh September one, twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Oh my god, September ninth, Oh my one.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Wow. We were like right there at the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, so we know exactly how the world was feeling
and how we were feeling. What a weird time to
have baby. Yeah, I just was so isolated and so alone. Yeah,
and just became more and more so after having Sophie
and I went into such a scary place my mental health,
and that was, like, I love your phrase, the cage
Like that really felt like the bars of that cage
(10:40):
were just locked and I didn't know how to get out.
It was so terrifying.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So I don't know about you, but when I had
my second kid, it almost broke me.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Going from one to two, Oh my god was oh,
just like you can't know how to describe it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
No, no one can prepare you. And they say they're
like ones one, two is like seven, like you're you know, yeah,
or two is going to change everything. And I'm like,
wew no, I'm going to be good. I have I
know this time that I have proclivity to, you know,
go to a dark place. So I'm gonna put all
of these tools in place. I have my therapist ready,
I have my postpartum doula, I have all the things.
(11:18):
I'm so privileged to have all these things and so lucky.
I know a lot of women aren't, and I recognize
how lucky I am for that. And even with all
of that support, even while that support, it was such
a shock to my system. I wasn't ready at all,
and I plummeted so deeply. How was it for you?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So I had really bad baby blues both times, and
for any of our besties who are listening, you haven't
given a birth. Baby blues is this period that's like
between two to what four weeks to four weeks?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's natural? Yes, Like they say, like seventy percent of
women experience is like really hormonal drop. It's like the
surge of the esergen drops all of a sudden, right
or theocin.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Sorry. Yeah, So I experienced that even more severely with
my second and I was like I was just like
mentally gone, like those first two weeks, Like I remember
my husband and I got in this fight because his
parents were visiting, and I just felt overwhelmed by everyone
(12:25):
being there and having.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
To like cater to people to take care of them
when you're like I was.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Like, you know, leading out of my vagina, particularly giving.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Birth or adult diapers and like and like to your
mother in law, like can I get you anything right? Right? Right?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And so now you know we've moved past it, we're fine,
but I just felt so betrayed in that moment, like
no who's looking after me, Who's who's like caring for me?
And I I went into a very dark place. I
had suicidal ideation. It was very scary, and I came
out of it. The baby blues kind of subsided, you know,
and hormones balanced out.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And ask, why do you call it your your team
called baby blues because it subsided? Because I'm because that
sounds severe, like, that sounds more than baby blues. That
sounds like a little bit of postpartum depression. Just because
I've done so much research into this.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Now I think you're right, right, Carrious.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Why are you using baby blues?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Well, okay, so I experienced it in acute sense and
in a heightened sense during baby blues, and then I
felt like I kind of balanced out a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It came out.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, yes, but I did start to feel honestly, like
looking back, like four months after giving birth, I was like,
wait a minute, I feel like I'm feeling this like
low grade depression. Yeah, and I don't even know if
if I can call this postpartum. But in hindsight, it
totally was postpartum. And that's the insidious thing about it, right.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's confusing because on the one hand, I'm like, well,
we don't want to put ourselves on in labels. You
don't want to label yourself. But I do think it's
helpful to call it that because it just raises awareness
and takes the shame away from it. And I think
that it's really probably amazing. A lot of women probably
look up to you listening and like that baby Blue
sounds so innocuous and sounds so sweet, almost like it's
not fucking sweet.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
We should stop calling? Can we stop calling?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
At that?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's such a man thing, like putting a label on
something that is so brutal and so painful.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, it's not so right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, So regardless of how severely you suffered, it sounds brutal,
and it sounds like you said, like it was a
short amount of time, and I'm so sorry mine was.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So long before we dive into that. Let's take a
quick break, welcome back to the bright side. How long
did it last for you?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
It's hard to talk about, sorry, Like, oh, I'd say
a year really severely, and then I started to suffer
with chronic pain after I kind of came out of
the mental part of it. But the pain was also
just more mental stuff. In a different way. My nervous
(14:59):
system was just trying to find a way to alert me,
like hey baby, we're not safe. Yeah, we're not safe.
So yeah. But the like intusive thoughts and this ldiation
and all that, and I had made like massive dissociation.
I dissociate every day. It was so brutal and scary.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I know that you say that Gabby Bernstein was a
really integral part of your healing, particularly one conversation that
she had with you that I would love for you
to share with our audience because I think it could
save someone else's life.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So when I was suffering and on tour the first time,
I at the time was really kind of enamored with
like la spirituality, which doesn't feel very rooted to me.
Sometimes it can feel a little bit like crystals, crystals
in the cards and listen, bless you. If that fills
you up, awesome, But it wasn't doing it for me
(15:49):
when she really hit the van. Yeah, I was trying
like grasping for straws like okay, let me pull a
taro card, Okay, let me like talk to an intuitive,
let me just can someone help me? And it was
what I'm oh now is it was really just me
trying to find that voice. It was me trying to
hear God and through everyone else, through everything else. But
Gabby is a really close friend of mine and she
(16:11):
had a baby at the same time, and she was
suffering from postpartum depression and her therapist, I didn't have
a proper therapist at the time. Her therapist told her Gabby,
this is not the baby blues, this is postpartum depression.
You are not okay, my love. Let's get medication and
let's get you help. And Gabby was terrified of taking
medication because all of us little like Eastern spirituality girlies
(16:32):
were like, well, why can't we just wish it away
or pray it away, or meditate it away or rekie
it away. And those are amazing tools, great, but I
think when you're really severely suffering sometimes you need to
kind of change your mind almost about what you've been
told is true or not. And like Gabby looked at
(16:53):
me and she was like, baby, you're not okay. Like
because I was like, can we pray? And she's like no, no, no, no, no,
Like we can, but you need help. You need a psychiatrist,
You need a therapist. Here's the helpline and hot line
for a post part and fression hot line.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I called the hot line when it's in the depths
of my despair.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Can you tell me about that? Yeah, I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I drove down the street. I was sobbing uncontrollably. It's like,
you know, this feeling, It's like the kind of tears
that never dry up, no.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Matter you don't at the bottom.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
There's no bottom, no matter how much you tell yourself
I'm gonna stop crying. I'm gonna stop crying. You can't.
It just keeps pouring out. And so I left the house.
I drove down the street, parked my car in a
park and just sat there, just sobbing, and I called
a you know, suicide hotline, and just needed to talk
to someone.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I totally understand.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I'm so sorry and alone, I'm so sorry for any
of you listening that I've ever felt like that. I
don't even have words. It's so big and it's so painful.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It is, and you don't understand until you're there.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
No, because my I've had friends close to me that
I have suffered in the dark like that, and I
thought I knew what darkness was but I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Like and it's it's also the kind it's so maddening
because it feels irrational when you're in it. You know,
you're like, God, why can't I just be normal? You know,
like why shake wa?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, but there's nothing. And that's when you know that
you need help because you can't it's out of control. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And honestly, I think that's why Finding Faith was so
pivotal at that moment, because it's the moment of like
true surrender of like when you have fought. I talk
a lot about the Hero's Journey and relate some of
the album to my Heroin's journey, you know, like, and
it's the moment when you have based your demons and
you are fighting and fighting and fighting, and it's funny
(18:50):
coming from the fights on Girl, and then you just
can't fight anymore because just not working. Yeah, and you
have to change tactics and you are just laid bare
on the floor of like, this isn't working. I'm gonna
die if I don't have help. If something doesn't come
in right now. There has to be something bigger than me.
And but like God, in the middle of those moments
(19:13):
you can't hear it, you can't find it.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Thank God for a friend like Gabby though we on
our show and she's incredible her. The conversation we had
was like game changing for me. And but to have
a friend who was like, no, you know what, even
though these things can exist, you know together in the
same space, we can have our reikie right, or we
can also have our medication.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And they're okay. And God works through that too. Yes.
So the first time I suffered with postpart impression, I
called her and she was like, you're not okay, go
get help. I didn't need medication that time. It wasn't
as severe. The second time, I hadn't slept in like
three nights, like not even a wink, not a second,
and yeah, like I legitimately it was. I was in
like a insane state. It was. It wasn't okay, and
(19:56):
my husband was really scared and called her, I think,
and she texted me like, baby, get on the phone
with me, and she was like, this is what I
need you to do. You need to go get some
out of van immediately. You need to take that tonight.
It's a benzo. I know you're scared of medication, but
you're gonna end up in a mental hospital. Like you
need to do that right now. You need to get
(20:17):
on zoloft or whatever is good for you whatever, SSRI,
here's a psychiatrist number. Here's like, call your OPG and
get out of van tonight. You will sleep, I promise you.
I was so terrified, Like I was more terrified of
the medication. I don't even know why I was so
scared now, I honestly, I wish I could understand. It's
the stigma.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't have the mental health stigma.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
There's something wrong with me. Then now I'm officially crazy.
I failed. I also failed.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There's the fact that I can't and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
To breastfeed and give this to my baby through my
breast milk. What the fuck is wrong with me? I'm
such a failure right, No, Like the worst thing would
be my baby not having a mom.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, I'm a hero. I am right, You're a hero
because so brave and.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I oh my god, I love you.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
You're so sweet.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Oh, I love you.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I love you. Definitely have to be friends. When I
heard and I love you even more now thanks?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Ah, So I was so brave. It was like the
bravest thing I ever did was to take medication and
to like change my mind about what I thought that
meant about me. And my therapist was begging me to
do it for like three weeks before I finally acquiesced
about the zoloft. Like I took that out of van
immediately because I really was just not okay. And yeah,
(21:36):
you know, but even like starting the zoloft, I was
so afraid and I just can't even believe that it's now,
like my best friend, I'm so I will never go
I mean maybe I will, but yeah, you know, like
why would we ever go off? I'm clearly a nervous person,
and I do the work on the side. Like I
think one of the stigmas is take this thing and
then ignore your problems. But that's not it. The way
(21:58):
my therapist was brilliant described it, She said, taking this
medication for you is like putting the scaffolding up so
you can actually start to build the building.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Genius.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Right now, you're just throwing tools into a work site
and they're just going down into the ground, like nothing
you're doing is gonna make an impact, none of the
work we're doing.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
How quickly would you say you started to feel relief.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I'd say like a month after starting the Zoloft, but
with the Adavan, I did sleep immediately. Oh my god,
but you're gonna I don't even want to stress everyone
out listening to what's about to happen. But here's what happened.
I slept that night, after like three nights of not
sleeping and like six weeks of just not okayness, you know,
barely sleeping. I woke up the next morning rested. Oh
(22:43):
my god, ten hours of sleep.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
And my mom came in my room and she was like, baby,
I don't want to scare you, but your husband's in
the hospital. He's passing a kidney stone right now. He's
not okay. He's probably gonna have surgery in a couple hours.
Oh so sorry. And then two days after that, has
been still in the hospital. My parents collapsed in my
(23:06):
arms because my dad's brother died, and like, what the fuck?
That's when mercy that And then my daughter had a fever,
and then I just was like I'm done. I'm done.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Two of those times in life where you're just like
this is too much. I can't I can't take it right.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, And I know that my too much is relative.
I know there are people listening that have it too
much that is so much bigger than that and incomferenceable.
But all we can do is know our own. You know,
it's it's their relative, and like that for me was
just the limit. So I was sleeping. But a month later, yeah,
those you know Zola started to help and that was great,
(23:46):
and I started to write songs and I started to
and I started to sing again because I was like
singing lullavies to my babies all the time. But I
started to really sing because I hadn't had a concert
in like years, I don't know, Yeah, and so I
started to really like wail and sing and my voice
had changed, and it was miraculous, Like I was like, wait,
(24:08):
what why am I able to sing like this?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
How did it change? It changed like you left it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I loved it, like I just couldn't believe it. And
it was it was like the way I relate to
it now. If you listen to the record verse earlier
stuff of mine, Yeah, there's a noticeable difference in the
amount of depth and like the like richness of my
voice and the soul. I think something there's like a
lot more body and you know, spiritually than you know.
(24:35):
I integrated the dark and the light, like I no
longer was pushing away the pain. The pain now is
my friend, and like the dark is my friend, and
I use it and I transmute it and I welcome it,
and I know it's all part of me. And so
I think I did a lot of I talk about this,
and I did a lot of spiritual bypass before, Like
(24:56):
in my before motherhood, I'm just like good vibes only.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, hey, you know good just uh positivity, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Positivity, toxic positivity. And like after this, I'm like no, no, no, no,
no no, I can't push away my dark because it
will come rearing its head if it's not welcomed and
like loved and accepted like all of me. But again,
music was this like haven that I'd come to, and
I think, like for anyone listening, creativity in general is
(25:27):
something that you could do if you're not a songwriter
and you have similar things. I think creativity just is
like a way to come home to yourself, remember that
there's something bigger flowing through you. And so I went
to my studio at one of the like the apex
of pain, like I'm just fear. My youngest Sophie was
in the hospital with like one hundred and six degree fever.
(25:48):
I was terrifying. Yeah, And we came home that night
and I just lost it. I went into my studio,
which is in the back house, and I just screamed
like enough. I didn't even know who I was screaming.
It just like screaming at God, are you here? What's
who is here? Like what the hell? I can't take
another second of this? And I just was squailing in
(26:09):
pain and started crying mercy. And out of that pain,
something moved me towards the piano and was like, go
to the piano and put your hands on the piano,
and that cry of mercy started to become these chords
and this melody, and all of a sudden, after twenty minutes,
this song rushed through me. And this song is so
(26:35):
joyful and yet painful at the same time. It's like,
if you listen to it, there's there's hope and there's
joy in the chords, and yet the pain in my
voice is so visceral, and I think that it's it
couldn't have been me, is all. I'm saying like I
was a mess, and so I recognized in that moment
that this amazing song had poured through me, like who
(26:55):
is here? Like God, are you real? It is this
something writing through me? AM, I supported, AM, I loved,
and it was this seed of hope that was planted
that maybe I'm not alone and maybe there's hope. And
there was so much more pain to come, but that
muse likes once songwriting, I realized that it could be
this medicine and anchor. I wasn't as terrified because I
(27:19):
kind of realized, like, are you doing what you did
with me with fight song again? I fucking hate you,
But okay, I'll let myself be a vessel. Fine, let's
write some music that'll help people hate you because because
it hurts to be like to have to go, I don't. Oh,
it's just I don't know why. Like some artists can
(27:40):
just write songs about the club and it's so I'm
so jealous, Like you know mine are just so deep
and painful.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I know, but that's what you do so well though,
Like as I'm hearing you talk about mercy and how
it's this marriage of joy and pain, like that is
what you do yeah, that's your gift.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
It's so brutal, but it's so Yeah, it is a gift,
and sometimes I wrestle with it because I'm like, man,
it would be so nice to sing a cute little
pop song and just like you know, or write about
a boy or something.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know, girl, that's not your testimony. No it's not.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
No, God's like no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Okay, So talk to me about this relationship with God.
Were you always like, did you grow up religious? Were
you always leaning on God?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
No? I didn't. I was raised Jewish. No, I had
a bomitz fi like did all the things. But in
Judaism for me, reform Judaism, I never realized, like I
have a partner here that I can turn to directly.
I kind of associated it with like being in temple
or putting on your temple outfit. Yeah, yeah, right, the
(28:43):
ritualistic part, right, the cultural part of the beautiful ceremonies
at home and pass Over. I love it, But I
never really felt this direct one on one relationship with God.
And I never related my songwriting and how fight song came.
I mean, that song was so clearly bigger than me.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Oh, it's so.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Right, and I wrote it alone in my apartment in
New York and wrestled with it and like so recognizing that,
I was like, all right, there's obviously something bigger than
me that's working with me when I put my hands
on a piano. What is it? And I just never
really understood what it was? And I I tried a
lot of things to find out. It was in this
moment and during when I was writing Mercy that I
(29:27):
was like, WHOA, You're God. You're God, and maybe you're
not the God that people talk about. I don't know
what you look like. I don't know, but but yes,
and it is triggering, but like, but God, for me
is that just ever present, loving best friend, father, mother,
thing that holds me and rocks me like a baby
(29:48):
and says, baby, I love you no matter what. Drop
all of the pressure, drop the facade, drop the mask,
like come into my arms and surrender again and again.
And when I do, I feel the way of the
world off of me. And it's the only way that
I healed, And like, I think it's the only way
that this music came out and the only way that
I'm able to do this with two little kids. And
(30:10):
I just again and again turn to something bigger and say, like,
you do it. Yeah, I can't do it, you do it.
And so yeah, I have a very deep relationship with God.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Now we're taking a short break, but we'll be right
back and we're back. There's such a spiritual, almost hymnal
like quality to some of your songs too. Are you
inspired by other forms of spirituality or other religions and
do you bring them into your work.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I'm inspired by anyone loving their creator.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I just love anyone's love of the God of their understanding.
I love I just love man crying out to something
bigger m h in any form. I think it's just
so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And I think it's so beautiful when we can turn
away from the world and turn inward. And that's what
I'm all about, and that's what I'm trying to help
my audience feel. No matter what you believe, there is
something inside of you that is so loving and so
wise and loves you so much. And I want you
to leave my show feeling so empowered and so lit
up and having felt your feelings and cried your tears
(31:19):
and like felt permission to be yourself. And then I
want you to leave and know how cradled and loved
you are, and then from that point I want you
to rise up and like claim your power.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Well, that reminds me of this lyric and your song
Set Me Free that I can't stop thinking about, particularly
as it relates to motherhood. I hope I get this right,
but I think it's I laid my roots down deep
and now it's time to rise.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
That sounds good.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, whoa like chills, chills, Oh my gosh, thank you,
it's so good. I mean that is good. It is good.
That is good. Yes, say it's good.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It's good.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It is I love this. I love women celebrating their
guests and their talents. What does the rising feel like?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Well, it can feel like two different things. If I'm
not grounded and really just clear on my intention and
purpose and why I'm doing this, it can feel bubby
and heady and exciting and like almost manic nic Yeah,
like like like the rise of Fight Song felt, and
like the whole Wildfire album and that whole crazy, out
(32:25):
of nowhere stratospheric rise out of anonymity of thirteen years
of like playing around the country and no one caring,
and then all of a sudden boom, everyone cares and
it was so and that rise felt like, how do
I keep up with this? Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Who am I?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
What's happening? People want it? Everyone wants my attention. I
don't understand why no one cared about me two minutes ago?
What the fuck?
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
But if I'm grounded, and if I'm really rooted and
like like I said, like if you lay roots down deep,
then then when the tree grows, when it's like you
know that you didn't do it alone a and that
you're not going to be swayed by the winds changing.
People can say what they want to say, and they're
going to have an opinion. The bigger you get, the
(33:04):
brighter you shine. That's just what happens. Yeah, And that
used to really rock me before. So now I'm kind
of learning how to be like, you know what, I'm
not for everyone. That's all right, that's great. You know,
why would I be for everyone? I'm going to stand
and shine my light and like light up whoever it's
meant to light up, you know. Yeah, And so that
(33:26):
kind of rise feels really calm and really like on
purpose and really like I am doing what I'm here
on this earth to do. Yes, right, I am not
meant to shrink.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Walk out into the room like God sent you there.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yes, I am not meant to cower, and like I
am not meant to play small. I think the line
in the song right after that is like I am
done with people pleasing and playing small. Yes, love me
as I am, or don't love me at all. And
sometimes I'm better at other times than believing that, But
right now I do feel that, Like, yeah, I'm a mother,
(33:59):
a created life. I went through hell, I found my
way back. I know I have God. I'm good, let's go.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I think there's something so symbolic about you having this
world renowned voice and then becoming a mother and going
through this dark night of the soul and almost feeling voiceless,
and then emerging with a new voice, both symbolically and literally.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Ah yeah, and you put it that way, it really lands,
Like I just I don't always get the perspective because
we're just in our own lives. But like, man, that
feels right, that feels true.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
You touched on this a little bit, Rachel, But how
heavy is it to be the fight song girl when
you can't even fight for yourself? Like when you're going
through your own mental health struggles.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Pretty impossible and confusing, I think, because it's a part
of me that's there, but it's not all of me.
And so when I can't access that part and people
know me for that part and look to me for that, Yeah,
(35:07):
I think it's kind of confusing. But I think that
I've learned how to claim a different kind of not
to be corny, but how to claim a different kind
of fight. Yeah, you know, it's like a more surrendered,
soft mama version of it, which is, yeah, we're gonna fight,
and we're gonna love ourselves, like, Yeah, we're gonna we're
(35:30):
gonna curl up on a couch and we're gonna drink
some tea with our best friend and we're gonna cry,
and then we're gonna go fight. Because you can't get
to that if you don't acknowledge the waves. You can't
get to the oceanness of being, if you don't recognize
the rocking waves that are also happening. We've got to
first address them and then you can sink beneath them.
(35:52):
I follow Tara Brock's work too a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I don't know if you know her, No, I don't
oh more. You would love her, Okay, tell.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Me she is so un real. Her work is one
of the most true, incredible things that have gotten me through.
And she has a book called Radical Compassion. She's a
Buddhist and she's a psychologist, and she has a podcast
that's incredible. But her one of her practices is called
RAIN and it's an acronym. It stands for Recognize, Allow, integrate,
(36:21):
and nurture. And that, along with songwriting and all this
other work and medication really saved my life. And I
did rounds and rounds of this and I think, I
don't even know why I'm talking about this. I don't.
It has nothing to do with fight song. It's how
I fight now. It's like I recognize what's there. I
allow the feeling to be there. I investigate in my
body where is it? Yeah, and then I speak to
(36:42):
it lovingly, and then I nurture myself and then I
go and fight. Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:48):
The sitting with is the hardest thing. Oh, I'm so
bad at it, so awful. It's so hard, so hard.
It's so much easier to just run away, but you can't.
You can only run away for so long.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Right, It'll find a way.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
You are such a testament to the fact that our
careers don't end when we become mothers. This is something
that I want to hit all the time on our show,
and I talk about it a lot whenever young women
ask me about, like, Okay, how do I balance, you know,
having my career and being a mom. But it's not over, No,
it's just beginning. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I love who I am now, I love where I
am at, and I love doing this as a mom
because I just feel like I know who I am now,
I really know, and nothing could unground me, you know,
like we always have our kids to humble us. I
was like screaming. I thought I was so good. I
was singing one of my songs like oh, and my
(37:39):
daughters came in and they're like, can you fight song?
I was like, oh, fuck off, I have new material.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Wait, I'm still like not okay that we just got
a riff from Rachel Platten live in the studio. That
was insane. Rachel, I can't think of a better place
to end. You are such a bright light. Thank you
very much for coming on the bright side.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I loved it. It was so fun. Thank you so much
for tuning into the bright Side this week, and if
any part of today's episode resonated with you, We've got
resources for you. If you are experiencing a postpartum mental
health crisis, call one eight three three TLC Mama, the
(38:21):
National Maternal Health Hotline, has this twenty four to seven
free confidential support line that you can turn to both before, during,
and after pregnancy. And also please go listen to our
season one interview with doctor Nicki Pensak. She wrote a
book called Rattle that is essential reading for anyone experiencing
the postpartum phase. And hey, let's keep the conversation going.
(38:43):
Find me at Simone Voice on social media. I'd love
to chat. All right, We'll see you next time. Until then,
keep looking on the bright side, y'all. The bright Side
is a production of Hello, Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts and
is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Simone Boyce.
Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Taylor Williamson,
(39:06):
Adrian Bain, and Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Joya
putnoy A. Cast executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Maureen Polo and Rhyese Witherspoon are the executive producers for
Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry is the executive producer for iHeart Podcasts.
Tim Palazzola is our showrunner. Our theme song is by
(39:27):
Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser
Today on the bright Side, Award winning singer songwriter Rachel
Plattin is here, y'all. You know her hit record Fight Song, Well,
today we're getting to know the woman behind the anthem.
Rachel is opening up about the invisible storm of postpartum
depression that she walked through and the life saving conversation
that helped her find her way back to the light.
This is Rachel Plattin like you've never heard her before, intentional,
(00:25):
rooted and simply radiant.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
That whole crazy, out of nowhere, stratospheric rise out of
anonymity of thirteen years of like playing around the country
and no one caring, and then all of a sudden boom,
everyone cares, and that rise felt like how do I
keep up with this?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'm smoone voice and this is the bright side from
hell of Sunshine. Okay, y'all, our guest today is Sunshine personified.
I mean truly, I'm talking about award winning singer songwriter
Rachel Plattin. She has a smile that can just light
up a room, y'all, and songs that get me up
on my feet, get me up off my couch. Of course,
(01:03):
I'm thinking about Fight Song. It is that track that
you turn on when you just seed that little boost,
when you know you gotta throw your hair up in
a messy bun, you gotta puff your chest out, put
your shoulders back, handle your business. And although she's best
known as the woman behind this global anthem, I mean,
there is so much more to her story, like the
(01:25):
pressure that comes with being known as the woman behind
an anthem like that. I mean, think about it. You
are known around the world as this woman with this ironclad,
unshakable confidence. But what happens when the woman behind those
lyrics can't find the strength to rise. That's what we're
(01:47):
getting into today because in my conversation with Rachel, I
learned about the invisible mental health battle she fought after
giving birth to her daughter, Sophie Joe, and I discovered
that Rachel and I are actually share some pretty big
parallels in our motherhood journeys, Like we both had our
second babies within a week of each other. And you know,
(02:09):
I've talked about motherhood on this show, but to be honest,
there are parts of my journey as a mother, specifically
in the postpartum period, that I haven't been fully transparent about.
And it's because some parts of that story are super dark,
and I've felt some shame around them, and I've wondered, Man,
(02:31):
is this too dark to talk about? Like, is this
too dark to share? I think sometimes in life there's
this tendency to want to sanitize the hard parts of
life and just like clean them up and make them
more presentable. There is nothing clean and tidy about this conversation.
I'm letting my mess hang out. Rachel's letting her mess
(02:54):
hang out. And that took me by surprise, honestly, Like
I knew that I was going to be talking to
Rachel about her postpartum journey, but in no way did
I expect that I was going to be opening up
in such a profound way. Like I've never met Rachel before.
This was my first time meeting her when we sat
(03:14):
down to record this episode, and yet by the end
of the episode, we're literally like crying and holding each
other and being like, oh my gosh, how did we
not know each other before this. It's just amazing what
happens when you give yourself permission to talk about these experiences,
because that's the dangerous part suffering in silence. It's not
(03:37):
something that we need to do. It's not something that
we have to do. The reality is that these experiences
are far more common than we think. While one in
seven women experience postpartum depression, only six percent of women
seek psychological help. And Rachel is going to be sharing
today that process of seeking help in her own life
(04:01):
and how just the brave act of seeking help potentially
saved her life. I'm gonna be honest, it's scary to
talk about these things. Vulnerability is not something that comes
easily for me, So it's not easy to get on
the mic and open up about stuff like this. But
one of the most hopeful things that I can share today,
and I think a beautiful byproduct of conversations like this,
(04:25):
is that Rachel and I are both thriving on the
other side of postpartum depression. And whether you're a mother
or not, whether that's your journey or not, there is
so much that we can learn from Rachel's mental health journey,
and her latest album, I Am Rachel Platten is a
testament to all the ways that she's grown as an
artist since becoming a mother. So listen to our conversation
(04:49):
and then make sure to give her album and listen
to all right. Here it is my conversation with Rachel Platten.
Rachel Platten, Welcome to the right side.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Hi so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I'm so excited to be here with you, particularly because
I see so much of myself and your motherhood journey.
Oh my kids are almost the exact same age. WHOA Yeah,
I have two boys, Logan and Keenan. My oldest is
about to be five, and then the youngest is three.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, so similar, yes.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And so as. I was just like researching your story
for this interview and hearing you talk about some of
the stuff that you went through, I just felt so seen.
But before we get there, I think we have to
start by talking about your most recent album, I Am
Rachel Platten, and you say that this album saved your
life and that it's almost like your first proper introduction
(05:44):
to the world. It's even in the name, like I
am Rachel Platten. So why do you feel like this
is your first real introduction.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I went through so much trauma and incredibly hard battles
in my mental health, and as I came out of it,
what helped me, among so many tools was songwriting and
turning back to my purpose and my why and I
kind of lost that in the music industry. So writing
(06:14):
the album became like an act of worship for me
of just like remembering myself, remembering why I do this,
remembering who I am. Putting my hands on the piano
reminded me I'm not just a mom that's beaten up
and not doing well. So yeah, writing the album healed
me in a lot of ways that I was struggling
(06:36):
so much and needed it so much for myself that
I was writing it for me, and in that way,
it was so raw and so unfiltered. You know, a
lot of the songs were straight from journal entries with
like tears falling on the page and then they became music.
So I just felt like when it came time to
(06:56):
release it, looking at the body of work, I was
just really amazed that it felt like it really represented
me so fully without yeah, without any like mask on
or anything. So I wanted to claim it and be like,
you don't. You might have known a side of me,
and I'm so grateful to that side, to that empowered
fight song girl, But here's all of me.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
As I'm sitting across from you, you are radiating freedom.
Oh my gosh, you're radiating like liberation. Really thank you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, I feel it, I really feel it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I feel it too. But I think to talk about
the freedom to properly set the stage for that, we
have to talk about the cage first. Yeah, so when
did your mental health struggles start?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Oh, first of all, I had my daughter in twenty nineteen,
probably a better thing to start with. I had my
first daughter, Violet in twenty nineteen, and went on tour
really quickly afterwards. I don't know what I was thinking, Like,
that's insane to me.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Now, how soon after thirty months?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What insane? Rachel?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
What?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I don't know what the dick I was thinking. I
was like I was I think I was really afraid
that motherhood was going to change my life and like change.
I don't know how I was perceived in the industry,
like there's so many rules for women in pop or
there felt like there were. I think they're starting to
kind of get broken down, but at least I felt them,
(08:18):
and I felt pressure to kind of declare, like, this
baby's not going to change my life. I'm going to
strap her on my back, put her on the bus.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I don't know what I've like, we can have it all.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, I can have it all right, and you can't
such a trap right, Like you can but not at
the same time. And I'm like right and sough. So
I went on tour and it was two arenas and
it was like fifteen thousand people twenty thousand people night,
and then I was doing and I was breastfeeding the bus,
but like right afterwards, so I'd get off stage and
I'd run and I'd try to like make the night
(08:48):
feeding and my breast milks while I was dwindling and
my sleep was awful, and I started to suffer from depression,
like really severe anxiety and panic attacks and depression. And
I didn't understand it the time that it was it
had to do with my hormones and the baby. Like
I kind of just was like, well, this is situational,
because this is unnatural to play this many people just
(09:09):
after you did such an internal creative work. And that's
all true, but it was also my hormones. So I
started to suffer with postpartum depression then, and I healed
after I got off that tour, I like slowly but
surely healed. I started to write songs again remember myself
and did like I had so many tools. I had
(09:30):
an incredible therapist and amazing acupuncturist, and that was enough
for that round of my depression, and then started to
really dive back into music. The pandemic happened, and I
turned really deeply inward and was okay, and it was
kind of really like, Wow, I made it through. I'm okay.
I kind of thought that was it. I thought that
was my dark night of the soul. And I was
(09:50):
really proud. And I wrote a song about that at
the time that's on the record, And it was just
so funny that that wasn't even the tip of iceberg
in terms of what I went through.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So you're saying it continued, Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
My god, it was. I got priding with my second
Sophie in twenty twenty one. They were they're like two
and a half years apart.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
My son was born in uh September one, twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Oh my god, September ninth, Oh my one.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Wow. We were like right there at the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, so we know exactly how the world was feeling
and how we were feeling. What a weird time to
have baby. Yeah, I just was so isolated and so alone. Yeah,
and just became more and more so after having Sophie
and I went into such a scary place my mental health,
and that was, like, I love your phrase, the cage
Like that really felt like the bars of that cage
(10:40):
were just locked and I didn't know how to get out.
It was so terrifying.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So I don't know about you, but when I had
my second kid, it almost broke me.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Going from one to two, Oh my god was oh,
just like you can't know how to describe it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
No, no one can prepare you. And they say they're
like ones one, two is like seven, like you're you know, yeah,
or two is going to change everything. And I'm like,
wew no, I'm going to be good. I have I
know this time that I have proclivity to, you know,
go to a dark place. So I'm gonna put all
of these tools in place. I have my therapist ready,
I have my postpartum doula, I have all the things.
(11:18):
I'm so privileged to have all these things and so lucky.
I know a lot of women aren't, and I recognize
how lucky I am for that. And even with all
of that support, even while that support, it was such
a shock to my system. I wasn't ready at all,
and I plummeted so deeply. How was it for you?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So I had really bad baby blues both times, and
for any of our besties who are listening, you haven't
given a birth. Baby blues is this period that's like
between two to what four weeks to four weeks?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's natural? Yes, Like they say, like seventy percent of
women experience is like really hormonal drop. It's like the
surge of the esergen drops all of a sudden, right
or theocin.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Sorry. Yeah, So I experienced that even more severely with
my second and I was like I was just like
mentally gone, like those first two weeks, Like I remember
my husband and I got in this fight because his
parents were visiting, and I just felt overwhelmed by everyone
(12:25):
being there and having.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
To like cater to people to take care of them
when you're like I was.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Like, you know, leading out of my vagina, particularly giving.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Birth or adult diapers and like and like to your
mother in law, like can I get you anything right? Right? Right?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And so now you know we've moved past it, we're fine,
but I just felt so betrayed in that moment, like
no who's looking after me, Who's who's like caring for me?
And I I went into a very dark place. I
had suicidal ideation. It was very scary, and I came
out of it. The baby blues kind of subsided, you know,
and hormones balanced out.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And ask, why do you call it your your team
called baby blues because it subsided? Because I'm because that
sounds severe, like, that sounds more than baby blues. That
sounds like a little bit of postpartum depression. Just because
I've done so much research into this.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Now I think you're right, right, Carrious.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Why are you using baby blues?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Well, okay, so I experienced it in acute sense and
in a heightened sense during baby blues, and then I
felt like I kind of balanced out a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It came out.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, yes, but I did start to feel honestly, like
looking back, like four months after giving birth, I was like,
wait a minute, I feel like I'm feeling this like
low grade depression. Yeah, and I don't even know if
if I can call this postpartum. But in hindsight, it
totally was postpartum. And that's the insidious thing about it, right.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's confusing because on the one hand, I'm like, well,
we don't want to put ourselves on in labels. You
don't want to label yourself. But I do think it's
helpful to call it that because it just raises awareness
and takes the shame away from it. And I think
that it's really probably amazing. A lot of women probably
look up to you listening and like that baby Blue
sounds so innocuous and sounds so sweet, almost like it's
not fucking sweet.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
We should stop calling? Can we stop calling?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
At that?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's such a man thing, like putting a label on
something that is so brutal and so painful.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, it's not so right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, So regardless of how severely you suffered, it sounds brutal,
and it sounds like you said, like it was a
short amount of time, and I'm so sorry mine was.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So long before we dive into that. Let's take a
quick break, welcome back to the bright side. How long
did it last for you?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
It's hard to talk about, sorry, Like, oh, I'd say
a year really severely, and then I started to suffer
with chronic pain after I kind of came out of
the mental part of it. But the pain was also
just more mental stuff. In a different way. My nervous
(14:59):
system was just trying to find a way to alert me,
like hey baby, we're not safe. Yeah, we're not safe.
So yeah. But the like intusive thoughts and this ldiation
and all that, and I had made like massive dissociation.
I dissociate every day. It was so brutal and scary.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I know that you say that Gabby Bernstein was a
really integral part of your healing, particularly one conversation that
she had with you that I would love for you
to share with our audience because I think it could
save someone else's life.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So when I was suffering and on tour the first time,
I at the time was really kind of enamored with
like la spirituality, which doesn't feel very rooted to me.
Sometimes it can feel a little bit like crystals, crystals
in the cards and listen, bless you. If that fills
you up, awesome, But it wasn't doing it for me
(15:49):
when she really hit the van. Yeah, I was trying
like grasping for straws like okay, let me pull a
taro card, Okay, let me like talk to an intuitive,
let me just can someone help me? And it was
what I'm oh now is it was really just me
trying to find that voice. It was me trying to
hear God and through everyone else, through everything else. But
Gabby is a really close friend of mine and she
(16:11):
had a baby at the same time, and she was
suffering from postpartum depression and her therapist, I didn't have
a proper therapist at the time. Her therapist told her Gabby,
this is not the baby blues, this is postpartum depression.
You are not okay, my love. Let's get medication and
let's get you help. And Gabby was terrified of taking
medication because all of us little like Eastern spirituality girlies
(16:32):
were like, well, why can't we just wish it away
or pray it away, or meditate it away or rekie
it away. And those are amazing tools, great, but I
think when you're really severely suffering sometimes you need to
kind of change your mind almost about what you've been
told is true or not. And like Gabby looked at
(16:53):
me and she was like, baby, you're not okay. Like
because I was like, can we pray? And she's like no, no, no, no, no,
Like we can, but you need help. You need a psychiatrist,
You need a therapist. Here's the helpline and hot line
for a post part and fression hot line.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I called the hot line when it's in the depths
of my despair.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Can you tell me about that? Yeah, I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I drove down the street. I was sobbing uncontrollably. It's like,
you know, this feeling, It's like the kind of tears
that never dry up, no.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Matter you don't at the bottom.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
There's no bottom, no matter how much you tell yourself
I'm gonna stop crying. I'm gonna stop crying. You can't.
It just keeps pouring out. And so I left the house.
I drove down the street, parked my car in a
park and just sat there, just sobbing, and I called
a you know, suicide hotline, and just needed to talk
to someone.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I totally understand.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I'm so sorry and alone, I'm so sorry for any
of you listening that I've ever felt like that. I
don't even have words. It's so big and it's so painful.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It is, and you don't understand until you're there.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
No, because my I've had friends close to me that
I have suffered in the dark like that, and I
thought I knew what darkness was but I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Like and it's it's also the kind it's so maddening
because it feels irrational when you're in it. You know,
you're like, God, why can't I just be normal? You know,
like why shake wa?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, but there's nothing. And that's when you know that
you need help because you can't it's out of control. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And honestly, I think that's why Finding Faith was so
pivotal at that moment, because it's the moment of like
true surrender of like when you have fought. I talk
a lot about the Hero's Journey and relate some of
the album to my Heroin's journey, you know, like, and
it's the moment when you have based your demons and
you are fighting and fighting and fighting, and it's funny
(18:50):
coming from the fights on Girl, and then you just
can't fight anymore because just not working. Yeah, and you
have to change tactics and you are just laid bare
on the floor of like, this isn't working. I'm gonna
die if I don't have help. If something doesn't come
in right now. There has to be something bigger than me.
And but like God, in the middle of those moments
(19:13):
you can't hear it, you can't find it.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Thank God for a friend like Gabby though we on
our show and she's incredible her. The conversation we had
was like game changing for me. And but to have
a friend who was like, no, you know what, even
though these things can exist, you know together in the
same space, we can have our reikie right, or we
can also have our medication.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And they're okay. And God works through that too. Yes.
So the first time I suffered with postpart impression, I
called her and she was like, you're not okay, go
get help. I didn't need medication that time. It wasn't
as severe. The second time, I hadn't slept in like
three nights, like not even a wink, not a second,
and yeah, like I legitimately it was. I was in
like a insane state. It was. It wasn't okay, and
(19:56):
my husband was really scared and called her, I think,
and she texted me like, baby, get on the phone
with me, and she was like, this is what I
need you to do. You need to go get some
out of van immediately. You need to take that tonight.
It's a benzo. I know you're scared of medication, but
you're gonna end up in a mental hospital. Like you
need to do that right now. You need to get
(20:17):
on zoloft or whatever is good for you whatever, SSRI,
here's a psychiatrist number. Here's like, call your OPG and
get out of van tonight. You will sleep, I promise you.
I was so terrified, Like I was more terrified of
the medication. I don't even know why I was so
scared now, I honestly, I wish I could understand. It's
the stigma.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't have the mental health stigma.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
There's something wrong with me. Then now I'm officially crazy.
I failed. I also failed.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There's the fact that I can't and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
To breastfeed and give this to my baby through my
breast milk. What the fuck is wrong with me? I'm
such a failure right, No, Like the worst thing would
be my baby not having a mom.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, I'm a hero. I am right, You're a hero
because so brave and.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I oh my god, I love you.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
You're so sweet.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Oh, I love you.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I love you. Definitely have to be friends. When I
heard and I love you even more now thanks?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Ah, So I was so brave. It was like the
bravest thing I ever did was to take medication and
to like change my mind about what I thought that
meant about me. And my therapist was begging me to
do it for like three weeks before I finally acquiesced
about the zoloft. Like I took that out of van
immediately because I really was just not okay. And yeah,
(21:36):
you know, but even like starting the zoloft, I was
so afraid and I just can't even believe that it's now,
like my best friend, I'm so I will never go
I mean maybe I will, but yeah, you know, like
why would we ever go off? I'm clearly a nervous person,
and I do the work on the side. Like I
think one of the stigmas is take this thing and
then ignore your problems. But that's not it. The way
(21:58):
my therapist was brilliant described it, She said, taking this
medication for you is like putting the scaffolding up so
you can actually start to build the building.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Genius.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Right now, you're just throwing tools into a work site
and they're just going down into the ground, like nothing
you're doing is gonna make an impact, none of the
work we're doing.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
How quickly would you say you started to feel relief.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I'd say like a month after starting the Zoloft, but
with the Adavan, I did sleep immediately. Oh my god,
but you're gonna I don't even want to stress everyone
out listening to what's about to happen. But here's what happened.
I slept that night, after like three nights of not
sleeping and like six weeks of just not okayness, you know,
barely sleeping. I woke up the next morning rested. Oh
(22:43):
my god, ten hours of sleep.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
And my mom came in my room and she was like, baby,
I don't want to scare you, but your husband's in
the hospital. He's passing a kidney stone right now. He's
not okay. He's probably gonna have surgery in a couple hours.
Oh so sorry. And then two days after that, has
been still in the hospital. My parents collapsed in my
(23:06):
arms because my dad's brother died, and like, what the fuck?
That's when mercy that And then my daughter had a fever,
and then I just was like I'm done. I'm done.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Two of those times in life where you're just like
this is too much. I can't I can't take it right.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, And I know that my too much is relative.
I know there are people listening that have it too
much that is so much bigger than that and incomferenceable.
But all we can do is know our own. You know,
it's it's their relative, and like that for me was
just the limit. So I was sleeping. But a month later, yeah,
those you know Zola started to help and that was great,
(23:46):
and I started to write songs and I started to
and I started to sing again because I was like
singing lullavies to my babies all the time. But I
started to really sing because I hadn't had a concert
in like years, I don't know, Yeah, and so I
started to really like wail and sing and my voice
had changed, and it was miraculous, Like I was like, wait,
(24:08):
what why am I able to sing like this?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
How did it change? It changed like you left it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I loved it, like I just couldn't believe it. And
it was it was like the way I relate to
it now. If you listen to the record verse earlier
stuff of mine, Yeah, there's a noticeable difference in the
amount of depth and like the like richness of my
voice and the soul. I think something there's like a
lot more body and you know, spiritually than you know.
(24:35):
I integrated the dark and the light, like I no
longer was pushing away the pain. The pain now is
my friend, and like the dark is my friend, and
I use it and I transmute it and I welcome it,
and I know it's all part of me. And so
I think I did a lot of I talk about this,
and I did a lot of spiritual bypass before, Like
(24:56):
in my before motherhood, I'm just like good vibes only.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, hey, you know good just uh positivity, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Positivity, toxic positivity. And like after this, I'm like no, no, no, no,
no no, I can't push away my dark because it
will come rearing its head if it's not welcomed and
like loved and accepted like all of me. But again,
music was this like haven that I'd come to, and
I think, like for anyone listening, creativity in general is
(25:27):
something that you could do if you're not a songwriter
and you have similar things. I think creativity just is
like a way to come home to yourself, remember that
there's something bigger flowing through you. And so I went
to my studio at one of the like the apex
of pain, like I'm just fear. My youngest Sophie was
in the hospital with like one hundred and six degree fever.
(25:48):
I was terrifying. Yeah, And we came home that night
and I just lost it. I went into my studio,
which is in the back house, and I just screamed
like enough. I didn't even know who I was screaming.
It just like screaming at God, are you here? What's
who is here? Like what the hell? I can't take
another second of this? And I just was squailing in
(26:09):
pain and started crying mercy. And out of that pain,
something moved me towards the piano and was like, go
to the piano and put your hands on the piano,
and that cry of mercy started to become these chords
and this melody, and all of a sudden, after twenty minutes,
this song rushed through me. And this song is so
(26:35):
joyful and yet painful at the same time. It's like,
if you listen to it, there's there's hope and there's
joy in the chords, and yet the pain in my
voice is so visceral, and I think that it's it
couldn't have been me, is all. I'm saying like I
was a mess, and so I recognized in that moment
that this amazing song had poured through me, like who
(26:55):
is here? Like God, are you real? It is this
something writing through me? AM, I supported, AM, I loved,
and it was this seed of hope that was planted
that maybe I'm not alone and maybe there's hope. And
there was so much more pain to come, but that
muse likes once songwriting, I realized that it could be
this medicine and anchor. I wasn't as terrified because I
(27:19):
kind of realized, like, are you doing what you did
with me with fight song again? I fucking hate you,
But okay, I'll let myself be a vessel. Fine, let's
write some music that'll help people hate you because because
it hurts to be like to have to go, I don't. Oh,
it's just I don't know why. Like some artists can
(27:40):
just write songs about the club and it's so I'm
so jealous, Like you know mine are just so deep
and painful.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I know, but that's what you do so well though,
Like as I'm hearing you talk about mercy and how
it's this marriage of joy and pain, like that is
what you do yeah, that's your gift.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
It's so brutal, but it's so Yeah, it is a gift,
and sometimes I wrestle with it because I'm like, man,
it would be so nice to sing a cute little
pop song and just like you know, or write about
a boy or something.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know, girl, that's not your testimony. No it's not.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
No, God's like no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Okay, So talk to me about this relationship with God.
Were you always like, did you grow up religious? Were
you always leaning on God?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
No? I didn't. I was raised Jewish. No, I had
a bomitz fi like did all the things. But in
Judaism for me, reform Judaism, I never realized, like I
have a partner here that I can turn to directly.
I kind of associated it with like being in temple
or putting on your temple outfit. Yeah, yeah, right, the
(28:43):
ritualistic part, right, the cultural part of the beautiful ceremonies
at home and pass Over. I love it, But I
never really felt this direct one on one relationship with God.
And I never related my songwriting and how fight song came.
I mean, that song was so clearly bigger than me.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Oh, it's so.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Right, and I wrote it alone in my apartment in
New York and wrestled with it and like so recognizing that,
I was like, all right, there's obviously something bigger than
me that's working with me when I put my hands
on a piano. What is it? And I just never
really understood what it was? And I I tried a
lot of things to find out. It was in this
moment and during when I was writing Mercy that I
(29:27):
was like, WHOA, You're God. You're God, and maybe you're
not the God that people talk about. I don't know
what you look like. I don't know, but but yes,
and it is triggering, but like, but God, for me
is that just ever present, loving best friend, father, mother,
thing that holds me and rocks me like a baby
(29:48):
and says, baby, I love you no matter what. Drop
all of the pressure, drop the facade, drop the mask,
like come into my arms and surrender again and again.
And when I do, I feel the way of the
world off of me. And it's the only way that
I healed, And like, I think it's the only way
that this music came out and the only way that
I'm able to do this with two little kids. And
(30:10):
I just again and again turn to something bigger and say, like,
you do it. Yeah, I can't do it, you do it.
And so yeah, I have a very deep relationship with God.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Now we're taking a short break, but we'll be right
back and we're back. There's such a spiritual, almost hymnal
like quality to some of your songs too. Are you
inspired by other forms of spirituality or other religions and
do you bring them into your work.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I'm inspired by anyone loving their creator.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I just love anyone's love of the God of their understanding.
I love I just love man crying out to something
bigger m h in any form. I think it's just
so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And I think it's so beautiful when we can turn
away from the world and turn inward. And that's what
I'm all about, and that's what I'm trying to help
my audience feel. No matter what you believe, there is
something inside of you that is so loving and so
wise and loves you so much. And I want you
to leave my show feeling so empowered and so lit
up and having felt your feelings and cried your tears
(31:19):
and like felt permission to be yourself. And then I
want you to leave and know how cradled and loved
you are, and then from that point I want you
to rise up and like claim your power.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Well, that reminds me of this lyric and your song
Set Me Free that I can't stop thinking about, particularly
as it relates to motherhood. I hope I get this right,
but I think it's I laid my roots down deep
and now it's time to rise.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
That sounds good.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, whoa like chills, chills, Oh my gosh, thank you,
it's so good. I mean that is good. It is good.
That is good. Yes, say it's good.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It's good.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It is I love this. I love women celebrating their
guests and their talents. What does the rising feel like?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Well, it can feel like two different things. If I'm
not grounded and really just clear on my intention and
purpose and why I'm doing this, it can feel bubby
and heady and exciting and like almost manic nic Yeah,
like like like the rise of Fight Song felt, and
like the whole Wildfire album and that whole crazy, out
(32:25):
of nowhere stratospheric rise out of anonymity of thirteen years
of like playing around the country and no one caring,
and then all of a sudden boom, everyone cares and
it was so and that rise felt like, how do
I keep up with this? Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Who am I?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
What's happening? People want it? Everyone wants my attention. I
don't understand why no one cared about me two minutes ago?
What the fuck?
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
But if I'm grounded, and if I'm really rooted and
like like I said, like if you lay roots down deep,
then then when the tree grows, when it's like you
know that you didn't do it alone a and that
you're not going to be swayed by the winds changing.
People can say what they want to say, and they're
going to have an opinion. The bigger you get, the
(33:04):
brighter you shine. That's just what happens. Yeah, And that
used to really rock me before. So now I'm kind
of learning how to be like, you know what, I'm
not for everyone. That's all right, that's great. You know,
why would I be for everyone? I'm going to stand
and shine my light and like light up whoever it's
meant to light up, you know. Yeah, And so that
(33:26):
kind of rise feels really calm and really like on
purpose and really like I am doing what I'm here
on this earth to do. Yes, right, I am not
meant to shrink.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Walk out into the room like God sent you there.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yes, I am not meant to cower, and like I
am not meant to play small. I think the line
in the song right after that is like I am
done with people pleasing and playing small. Yes, love me
as I am, or don't love me at all. And
sometimes I'm better at other times than believing that, But
right now I do feel that, Like, yeah, I'm a mother,
(33:59):
a created life. I went through hell, I found my
way back. I know I have God. I'm good, let's go.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I think there's something so symbolic about you having this
world renowned voice and then becoming a mother and going
through this dark night of the soul and almost feeling voiceless,
and then emerging with a new voice, both symbolically and literally.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Ah yeah, and you put it that way, it really lands,
Like I just I don't always get the perspective because
we're just in our own lives. But like, man, that
feels right, that feels true.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
You touched on this a little bit, Rachel, But how
heavy is it to be the fight song girl when
you can't even fight for yourself? Like when you're going
through your own mental health struggles.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Pretty impossible and confusing, I think, because it's a part
of me that's there, but it's not all of me.
And so when I can't access that part and people
know me for that part and look to me for that, Yeah,
(35:07):
I think it's kind of confusing. But I think that
I've learned how to claim a different kind of not
to be corny, but how to claim a different kind
of fight. Yeah, you know, it's like a more surrendered,
soft mama version of it, which is, yeah, we're gonna fight,
and we're gonna love ourselves, like, Yeah, we're gonna we're
(35:30):
gonna curl up on a couch and we're gonna drink
some tea with our best friend and we're gonna cry,
and then we're gonna go fight. Because you can't get
to that if you don't acknowledge the waves. You can't
get to the oceanness of being, if you don't recognize
the rocking waves that are also happening. We've got to
first address them and then you can sink beneath them.
(35:52):
I follow Tara Brock's work too a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I don't know if you know her, No, I don't
oh more. You would love her, Okay, tell.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Me she is so un real. Her work is one
of the most true, incredible things that have gotten me through.
And she has a book called Radical Compassion. She's a
Buddhist and she's a psychologist, and she has a podcast
that's incredible. But her one of her practices is called
RAIN and it's an acronym. It stands for Recognize, Allow, integrate,
(36:21):
and nurture. And that, along with songwriting and all this
other work and medication really saved my life. And I
did rounds and rounds of this and I think, I
don't even know why I'm talking about this. I don't.
It has nothing to do with fight song. It's how
I fight now. It's like I recognize what's there. I
allow the feeling to be there. I investigate in my
body where is it? Yeah, and then I speak to
(36:42):
it lovingly, and then I nurture myself and then I
go and fight. Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:48):
The sitting with is the hardest thing. Oh, I'm so
bad at it, so awful. It's so hard, so hard.
It's so much easier to just run away, but you can't.
You can only run away for so long.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Right, It'll find a way.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
You are such a testament to the fact that our
careers don't end when we become mothers. This is something
that I want to hit all the time on our show,
and I talk about it a lot whenever young women
ask me about, like, Okay, how do I balance, you know,
having my career and being a mom. But it's not over, No,
it's just beginning. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I love who I am now, I love where I
am at, and I love doing this as a mom
because I just feel like I know who I am now,
I really know, and nothing could unground me, you know,
like we always have our kids to humble us. I
was like screaming. I thought I was so good. I
was singing one of my songs like oh, and my
(37:39):
daughters came in and they're like, can you fight song?
I was like, oh, fuck off, I have new material.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Wait, I'm still like not okay that we just got
a riff from Rachel Platten live in the studio. That
was insane. Rachel, I can't think of a better place
to end. You are such a bright light. Thank you
very much for coming on the bright side.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I loved it. It was so fun. Thank you so much
for tuning into the bright Side this week, and if
any part of today's episode resonated with you, We've got
resources for you. If you are experiencing a postpartum mental
health crisis, call one eight three three TLC Mama, the
(38:21):
National Maternal Health Hotline, has this twenty four to seven
free confidential support line that you can turn to both before, during,
and after pregnancy. And also please go listen to our
season one interview with doctor Nicki Pensak. She wrote a
book called Rattle that is essential reading for anyone experiencing
the postpartum phase. And hey, let's keep the conversation going.
(38:43):
Find me at Simone Voice on social media. I'd love
to chat. All right, We'll see you next time. Until then,
keep looking on the bright side, y'all. The bright Side
is a production of Hello, Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts and
is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Simone Boyce.
Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Taylor Williamson,
(39:06):
Adrian Bain, and Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Joya
putnoy A. Cast executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Maureen Polo and Rhyese Witherspoon are the executive producers for
Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry is the executive producer for iHeart Podcasts.
Tim Palazzola is our showrunner. Our theme song is by
(39:27):
Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser
Host
Simone Boyce
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