October 14, 2024 • 29 mins
On Indigenous Peoples' Day, author K.A. Cobell joins to talk about her debut novel and the fall young adult pick for Reese’s Book Club, "Looking for Smoke." She tells Danielle and Simone about her own experience within the Blackfeet Nation, how she navigates her mixed-race identity, and why she decided to write a thriller that sheds light on the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women epidemic.
You can find the "Looking for Smoke" audiobook on Apple Books.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, Bessie's Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Today on the bright Side, it's Indigenous People's Day and
we've got another edition of shelf Life lined up for you.
We're joined by Ka Cobell, the author of Looking for Smoke,
which is the fall young adult pick for Reese's Book Club.
It's Monday, October fourteenth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together
to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
On My Mind Monday is brought to you by missus
Myers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the Garden.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Happy on Monday. Danielle, you already know what time it is.
This is our opportunity to share what's inspiring us. To
kick off the week on the right foot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Feels like a good way to combat a case of
the Mondays. So tell me what's on your mind.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well, I'm so glad you asked, because I just read
this great piece in the New York Times by Chancey
Dunn about how to turn around a bad day, and
you might be thinking is even humanly possible? Well, it
turns out it is because this writer talked to a
clinical psychologist, a woman named Susan albers and she had
some very practical solutions for turning around the day. I
was actually pretty impressed. So one thing doctor Alberts says
(01:13):
Danielle is to change up your day and make what
she calls a sensory change. So that can be anything
from a shower to changing your clothes or just working out.
Have you ever tried that and has it worked for you?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Hell?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, you gotta like switch the energy up. I'm a
big if you're sad, take a shower. If you're sad,
take a walk or a run kind of girl.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I feel like the power of the shower is so underestimated.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
The power of the shower. It runs a shower.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Whenever I'm feeling some type of way, That's one of
the first things I do is just take a shower,
and it's like something about the water washing over me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's like I feel rejuvenated. It's good. Simon.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
When I was in college, I found out that my
boyfriend was cheating on me, And by found out, I
mean like I hacked his email and went through everything
in his apartment.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It was like psycho.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Style, and I was so upset, and I was driving
back home and I called my dad and I was crying,
and he goes, Danielle, go for a run.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Excuse me, that's the advice. And in hindsight, I know
what he meant. He was right, go for a run.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
He was echoing doctor Albert's advice to you know, pursue
a sensory change. Yes, okay, This next piece of advice
is one I can really get behind.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Doctor Albert says you should give yourself little rewards. She
suggests giving yourself intermittent rewards during an otherwise terrible day.
And she says it's better to get a dopamine hit
now than wait for a dopamine hit later after the
horrible day has ended. I mean, anyone who's ever treated
themselves to a bougie latte in the middle of a
(02:55):
bad day knows exactly what she's saying.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
This sounds like you. You love a sweet treat, You
don't like rewards. You don't like treats, Danielle.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
No, I'm masochistic and don't believe I deserve any treats.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh my god, I like a cappuccino in the morning.
It's a lot to unpact. That's there. We're gonna need
to bring doctor Albers on. I think, no, no, But
you love a millennial treat. I do love a millennial treat.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah yeah, Okay. Finally, here's the last one I want
to leave y'all with. Doctor Albers recommends setting up an
emotional first aid kit.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh what's that?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
So? That means keeping anything nearby that brings you joy, music, mementos,
or even just that group chat that makes you feel
less alone. This one is so huge too, Like, I
find that in the same way that a shower can
offer a sensory change, music does the same thing for me.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I also think it works the opposite way, Like when
I've been heartbroken, I make sure I don't watch sad
movies or listen to sad songs because it can really
affect your mood. I totally agree with this one. Okay,
I have a question for you based on this on
my mind Monday. I was just talking to a girlfriend
about this. If you're going through a hard time, does
(04:05):
buying things help your mood?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It does, but I don't do it. Sure it does,
but like I know that it's not. It's only a
temporary solution. It's only a band aid, and it's also
a very costly band aid, so I tend to not
do it. I've actually gotten a lot better about consumerism
in the past couple of years, Like I don't buy
as much stuff, and I'm happier because of it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
How about you. I totally agree. But sometimes.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Like, Okay, I've talked about this on the podcast before,
but like I went through a really brutal heartbreak like
four or five years ago, and it put it like
triggered childhood wounds. I was in such a bad spot,
and I remember my therapist at the time being like,
I think you should go buy yourself a leather jacket.
And I was thinking, what a dumb piece of advice,
Like aren't you supposed to like console, Like you're supposed
(04:55):
to tell me something more meaningful.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
But I kind of understand what she means me now,
Like I guess it's the sweet treat.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's the millennial treat that I was joking about, Like
sometimes you do have to treat yourself, but there is
a fine line.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So maybe you buy it for yourself and then when
you feel better, you return it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Great advice, Great advice, okay jokes aside.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
One of the things that really does help me switch
up my mood is reading a book, because especially when
I read women's stories, I feel so validated by their
experiences and it kind of takes you into a different realm.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Do you feel that way?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
One hundred percent? I find that fiction really does that
for me. And I like having almost like a book
ritual or reading ritual, like I love drawing a bath
and setting a candle on and maybe having my face
steamer on, and just like reading a book. There's something
about that ritualistic element that is really comforting whenever I'm
having a bad day.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's such a great way to unwind.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And you know, speaking of great books, our guest today
is the author of Reese's book Clubs fall Ya Pick
Looking for Smoke. For her debut novel, Ka Cobell drew
inspiration from her own experience within the Blackfeet Nation, which
is a reservation in northwest Montana. In an interview with
The Nerd Daily, Ka said she wanted to write a
story featuring Blackfeet teens because it's something she never saw
(06:17):
growing up, and as a thriller writer, she wanted to
shed light on the issue of missing and murdered Indigenous
women and its impact on the lives of those affected
by it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And that's honestly exactly what she did. In her first book,
Looking for Smoke follows fourteens on the Blackfeet Reservation, Maura, Lauren, Brody,
and Eli, who find themselves entangled in a murder investigation,
and it's up to them to clear their own names,
even though one of them may in fact be the murderer.
After the break, we're diving into it all with author
(06:49):
Ka Cobell.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
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Speaker 1 (07:14):
Welcome to the bright Side, Ka.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Hello, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Oh We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Congrats on being selected as Reese's Book Club's fall yapic
for your book entitled Looking for Smoke. So we know
that this story is deeply personal to you. It centers
around this main character, Mara, who struggles with coming to
terms with her mixed race identity, and this is something
that you've been open about as well. Would you take
(07:41):
us into that journey a bit.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I think it all started because even before I began
writing this book, I started having a lot of questions
and doubts in myself, Like I knew this story needed
to be told, but I started thinking, like who am
I to tell this story? Like? Am I talented enough
(08:03):
to tell the story? Am I Blackfeet enough to tell
the story? And I had to kind of grapple with
those questions in thinking about my identity, and I ultimately
found a place within myself where I realized that I
am enough and my experience as a Blackfeet author, a
(08:26):
Blackfeet woman is valid, and that is the only place
where I can tell this story from. And it's one
of the biggest honors of my life to be able
to open this window into the Blackfeet culture. It is
kind of a unique experience to have something in your
life that you have such deep pride for, such a
(08:50):
reverence for, and other people have never even heard of it.
Starting the story with that in mind and getting that
confidence to do it, I think naturally came out with Mara,
and she's having all these questions as well, does she
fit here? Does she belong? Is she enough? And it
was fun to explore that with her.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I hear that your father, who is Blackfeet, has helped
you navigate those feelings that you're talking about about your identity.
How has he helped you connect with your cultural pride?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I got all my cultural pride from him, I would say,
through my whole life. He's been so good at instilling
that pride in me and my siblings. He's just always
willing to share his memories and the stories he grew
up with. While I didn't grow up on the reservation,
he did, and my older siblings were born there, but
(09:47):
he was always sure to bring us back to the reservation,
like we visit there for the tribes annual Indian Days
celebrations where there's pow wows and rodeos and dan horse
relay races. So what I think about most is sitting
there in the stands when they start the drum music.
(10:09):
And it's really hard to explain, but like you get
this feeling in your chest. It's like it's this pull
and like this reverence, like this is where I belong,
Like this is my home, these are my people, and
I tried really hard to put that experience into the
opening of Looking for Smoke, where we have Maura and
(10:31):
her family sitting in the stands at the powow and
she feels that music like a calling. And that's the
feeling I get when I think about the reservation and
home and where my family is from, like we are
connected to the whole place, to the land.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Okay, I'm obsessed with book titles and unpacking the meaning
behind them and hearing how authors arrived at them, and
yours is really special and has a special history behind it.
So your fifth great grandfather, his Indian name, there's a
connection between that name and that title Looking for Smoke.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Would you elaborate on that for us?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
So, as I was writing this book, I really wanted
it to be as authentic as possible. You know. I
put a lot of myself and my family into this
book with the memories and the stories. And another way
I wanted to do that was by using actual family
names throughout this book. And so as I was writing,
(11:34):
I was looking in my family trees and finding different
names of family members and ancestors. And one of the
names I saw was my fifth great grandfather and his
name was looking for smoke, and it just like matched
the vibe I was going for in this book. Yeah,
just you know, the elusive smoke, the feeling of like
(11:57):
chasing something you can't quite grab, something that slipped from
your fingers. And so it just made sense to use
that name in the book. And then it hit me
that it was also a perfect title.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, you have your own native name as well. How
did it feel when you got yours?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It is a very special experience for those of you
who don't know. Names are very powerful in the Black culture.
Back in the day, everyone just had their one name.
They had their name in black Feet, which was unique
to them, and today we all have our American names
(12:36):
first and last, but we are also given a name
in black Feet, and it's given to us by an
elder in the community who holds a lot of cultural
knowledge and speaks the language fluently and is very respected.
And they give you this name, and it's almost like
(12:57):
a possession, like it is given to you and it
belongs to you now. So receiving that name, it's like
this is now a piece of the culture that I hold.
Like when I got mine, which is under our woman,
I felt like I truly belonged, and I felt like
held by the community.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I want to ask you about the genre, because this
book is a thriller, but you explored sci fi and
some dystopian genres first. Why did you land on writing
a thriller.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I started with a fantasy and a little bit of dystopian,
and I tried to sci fi, and it wasn't until
I tried a thriller that I felt like I really
took ownership of my voice. It honed my craft. And
I think it's because of the stakes that are there
with a thriller. It like got its claws in me
(13:50):
and it pulled it out of me. Like people are dying,
there are murders, you are in danger, and there's just
this immediacy when you're writing that it keeps me focused
and it keeps me wanting to find out what happened interesting.
And I think if I'm not writing about life and death,
(14:11):
then it's hard for me to like hone it in.
It's like I kind of get lost in it. So
that immediacy. In those steaks, they hit me hard, just
like they hopefully will hit the reader hard.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Do you think steaks are the secret to writing a
really epic thriller.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Absolutely, that is a huge part of it. Having the
stakes feel so real that a reader just can't stop
flipping pages because they feel like they're in that danger
with the characters.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
How do you write that? How do you like create
stakes like that?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
You know? I ask myself that every time I start
a new thriller. But I think, oh, for me, a
lot of it comes from the character. I really like
to start with my character and have them be really
fleshed out and have them bringing their own baggage into
the story before it evens starts, so we care about
(15:09):
them and what they're going through even before everything hits
the fan, so that we're rooting for them, and when
they're in danger, we feel it more. And another secret
I think is secrets. You want to give all these
characters these secrets that they want to hold to the death,
(15:31):
and as an author, I need to be able to
sit with them in those secrets and the lies they tell,
giving them reasons to keep these things from their friends,
or understanding where they're coming from.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back to shelf Life with author Ka Cobell.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And we're back with author Ka Kobell.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
This thriller tells the story of two missing girls, and
it highlights the missing and murdered Indigenous women epidemic.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Why was this the issue that you wanted to center?
Speaker 4 (16:10):
I really wanted to bring in the missing and murdered
Indigenous women epidemic because it's such a serious issue and
not everyone knows about it. So, for those of you
who don't know, Native women are the victims of violent
crime far more often than any other group in our country.
Eighty four percent of Native women have experienced violence, fifty
(16:34):
six percent of them have experienced sexual violence, and Native
women are three times more likely to be murdered than
white women, and in some location that murder rate is
ten times the national average. And so these numbers, like,
when you really think about it, they're staggering. And my
(16:55):
biggest hope for looking for Smoke is that non natives
will come away with a better understanding of the issue
and a desire to learn how they can help.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
There's a question or a theme that I've heard you
speak about. It's this idea of how far would you
go to seek justice? And you say that a lot
of us, a lot of people don't have to actually
think about what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
What do you mean when you say that?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Something that I really wanted to explore in Looking for
Smoke where these family relationships. We have a lot of
sibling relationships Lauren and her grandmother, and they are all
looking out for their family members in some way, and
they all feel this desperation to protect their family members
because they don't feel like anyone else is. They have
(17:46):
this distrust in the law enforcement officers. Are they really
looking for my sister? Are they truly trying to find
the killer of my best friend? Like? They have these
questions and these doubts, and they're so worried that no
one else is going to find justice if they don't
(18:09):
do it themselves. And that's because cases are not being
solved and women are not being found. And it truly
brings out this desperation in these communities of what isn't
being done? Why is this happening? Why are our women
not being found? And I just really wanted to show
(18:30):
that because it's something that other communities may not deal
with as much, or, like I said, haven't heard of it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I think part of the unfortunate reality for people connected
to this issue is that you don't always get justice.
Oftentimes you don't get justice. I guess the question in
that is how do you make peace with the unknown?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
We don't always get closure. But something else that I've
tried to show and looking for smoke, is that we
can get some closure in community. You know, we come together,
we rally around each other, and Native communities have so
much strength and they're so tight knit and supportive of
each other, and that is how we can find peace.
(19:16):
And another one of my goals for this book was
that the Native readers will see themselves in this story
and see their families and to feel some peace in
that community, and that we're in this together and we're
fighting together, and we all want to be heard and
we want more people to pay attention.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's so important to discuss these aspects of the Native
experience seeking justice for missing and murdered Indigenous women. But
it's also really important to talk about the joyful parts
of the experience too, And I love that you incorporated
some of those joyful elements of what it means to
be Native American in this story. What are some of
(20:02):
those joyful experiences for you? Like, what does native joy
look like to you?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
When I think of the Native experience. The first thing
that always comes to mind is the humor, Like you
get in a group of Native people. You will be
laughing so much. They're so hilarious in every situation, like
they will always bring in humor. And I feel like
that is one of my weaknesses in writing. It's hard
(20:28):
to write humor, but I try to show pieces of that,
and I also think about just the traditions that brings
a lot of joy too, So that's why I wanted
to center it around a powwow where we see natives
experiencing their culture in its truest form. They are doing
(20:50):
the dancing, the traditional ceremonies, and another one of my
favorite things is to watch Indian relay races where we
have a bareback rider racing three horses around a track,
jumping off one jumping onto the next. And I wanted
to show that in the book as well, because we
(21:11):
are still here, We're still experiencing the culture together and
celebrating it.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Oka we have come to the part of our show
where we ask authors to read us a passage from
their book. There's this one scene that we have in
mind that's a reflection of a real life moment with
your dad. What's going on in this scene?
Speaker 4 (21:31):
So this book is written from multiple povs, so it
switches between four different main characters. And this scene is
from eli first Kills perspective, and he's coming to apologize Tomara,
who has felt like an outsider and Eli was one
of the colder students. To her, I bust out my
(21:55):
wise indigenous voice, looking into the distance. You have a
head presence. I feel it. You're quiet, but you're there observing,
like a hawk surveying its land. You're good medicine. She
playfully bumps my knee. I'm gonna take that as a compliment.
I drop the voice. It is when she smiles again,
(22:18):
I realize our faces are only a foot apart, and
I find myself noticing the curves of her lips as
her smile fades. If I'm a hawk, what are you?
Were already established I'm mad bear? She laughs. No, you're
not a bear, You're more like a buffalo. I bite
my tongue to hide my surprise. Sometimes you're quiet, too,
(22:39):
but you have a big presence. Everyone knows if they
cross you, you could end them. You seem calm, but
your power is very apparent. She cocks her head and nods,
just like a buffalo. You're not going to understand why.
But that's the most I've felt seen in my entire life.
(23:00):
That's all I've tried to do. Keep out of trouble
and take care of Sherry. Be the buffalo, ready to
defend her if anyone bothers us good. Her smile is
bright in the moonlight, and I can't help but smile back.
I thought you'd hate me, I would. Her gaze drifts
to the cracked sidewalk. The thing is, I didn't expect
to fit in with less than three months of school left.
(23:23):
Her mouth presses into a grimace. I knew I wouldn't
have any friends for a while, and I didn't try
that hard to make any Everyone is so tight here.
Most of you have known each other your whole lives.
You've got a bunch of family everywhere. I'm the odd
one who doesn't. I knew i'd be thought of as
this newcomer who hasn't been a part of anything. What
hurt was that I felt like my identity wasn't accepted,
(23:46):
Like I couldn't just own it. I had to prove
I deserved it or something that's not what it was,
she barrels on. It was like, I'm not full, so
I don't count. I didn't grow up here, and my
family isn't very true, so I must not know any
of the culture. I haven't been here with you, so
I'm not one of you. I shake my head. I'm
(24:08):
not full either, that's not I think everyone just thought
you didn't want to be one of us. We didn't
mean any of that.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Well.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
I already worried about where I fit in with everything,
so it just got worse moving here. I know who
I am, but if I have to prove it to
someone else, it makes me doubt myself. I guess I
don't have all the same experiences as you guys, but
being black Feet is still a huge part of my identity.
She raises her chin when she looks at me, still
proud even when she's doubting herself. The faint light from
(24:39):
the big sky makes her high cheekbones glow. She knows
who she is. She just wanted us to know too.
Your black feet, Mara Ressett. Nobody can take that from you.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So that last line, Ka that says your black feet,
Maria Risidet nobody can take that from you. I hear
that there's a deeper story behind that. Where does that
line come from?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
It goes back to what I was saying before, where
I was having a lot of questions and doubts when
I got the idea for this story, thinking am I
black feet enough? Am I the right person to tell
this story? And of course my dad came in. I
laid down all my doubts for him, and he he's
(25:25):
the one who helped me shut them down and he
said to me, I will always remember he said, your
black feet, my girl, Nobody can take that from you.
And that was so powerful to me, and I wanted
to put that into a scene because it resonated so
much with me, and I just I think everyone deserves
(25:48):
to hear that that you are enough, You belong who
you are, Nobody can take that from you.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Kay, I felt you get emotional when you we're reciting
it to us. Where did those almost tears come from?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
It's just like I wish everyone could have a support
like that, like my dad. I'm patting emotional. He will
always affirm who I am, like it's the cultural pride
comes from him, like the confidence in myself comes from
him like you are who you are and I love
(26:26):
you for it, And I just wish that everyone could
hear that, no matter who they are.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well, that's the power of writing. Right now, everybody can
hear it when they pick up your book. Are you
up for a listener question?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Sure, Okay, fantastic. This question is from Naomi Hi.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
I'm Naomi, I'm Ojibwe. I live in San Francisco. I'm
a book content creator. I use my platform to highlight
and uplift native authors. It is so important to me
that when we go into a bookstore, we have more
than just a couple of options on books written by
people who share our identities and lived experience. So I
(27:06):
would love to know more about how or what you
struggled with the most as you worked to explore such
a serious topic as MMIW, and the steps you took
to remain respectful to the very real life experiences that
people have had.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
That is an awesome question. I truly did struggle before
I started writing this book because I knew I would
need to find a very fine line in crafting a
propulsive thriller myth for entertainment and bringing in this very
(27:41):
sensitive and very real issue that is affecting communities today.
And I was afraid to start writing because I knew
how hard it would be. But I think I found
the line to walk through my characters while I was
writing these fictional cases. The feelings that the characters are
(28:02):
experiencing are real. I'm bringing in that true grief, the
feelings of betrayal, this deep sadness, this angry grief. Like
I'm bringing in feelings that are so real and feelings
that we've all experienced in some way. And if we
can sit in those feelings with the characters, I think
(28:26):
it will help us to relate to the crisis in
a more personal way if we don't already have a
personal reason. And yeah, the characters just helped me to
find the path to walk in being sensitive to the
communities while also hopefully having a page turning story. Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Well, thank you so much for your time and for
sharing your story with us.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Thank you, Ka, of course, thank you so much. This
has been awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Kay Hey Kobell is the author of Looking for Smoke,
which is the fall young adult pick for Reese's book Club.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That's it for Today's show.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Tomorrow, Comedian and actor Leanne Morgan joins us to talk
about our new memoir What in the World, A Southern
Woman's Guide to laughing at life's unexpected curveballs and beautiful blessings.
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
(29:30):
feel free to tag us at simone Voice and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hey, Bessie's Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Today on the bright Side, it's Indigenous People's Day and
we've got another edition of shelf Life lined up for you.
We're joined by Ka Cobell, the author of Looking for Smoke,
which is the fall young adult pick for Reese's Book Club.
It's Monday, October fourteenth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together
to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
On My Mind Monday is brought to you by missus
Myers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the Garden.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Happy on Monday. Danielle, you already know what time it is.
This is our opportunity to share what's inspiring us. To
kick off the week on the right foot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Feels like a good way to combat a case of
the Mondays. So tell me what's on your mind.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well, I'm so glad you asked, because I just read
this great piece in the New York Times by Chancey
Dunn about how to turn around a bad day, and
you might be thinking is even humanly possible? Well, it
turns out it is because this writer talked to a
clinical psychologist, a woman named Susan albers and she had
some very practical solutions for turning around the day. I
was actually pretty impressed. So one thing doctor Alberts says
(01:13):
Danielle is to change up your day and make what
she calls a sensory change. So that can be anything
from a shower to changing your clothes or just working out.
Have you ever tried that and has it worked for you?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Hell?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, you gotta like switch the energy up. I'm a
big if you're sad, take a shower. If you're sad,
take a walk or a run kind of girl.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I feel like the power of the shower is so underestimated.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
The power of the shower. It runs a shower.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Whenever I'm feeling some type of way, That's one of
the first things I do is just take a shower,
and it's like something about the water washing over me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's like I feel rejuvenated. It's good. Simon.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
When I was in college, I found out that my
boyfriend was cheating on me, And by found out, I
mean like I hacked his email and went through everything
in his apartment.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It was like psycho.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Style, and I was so upset, and I was driving
back home and I called my dad and I was crying,
and he goes, Danielle, go for a run.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Excuse me, that's the advice. And in hindsight, I know
what he meant. He was right, go for a run.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
He was echoing doctor Albert's advice to you know, pursue
a sensory change. Yes, okay, This next piece of advice
is one I can really get behind.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Doctor Albert says you should give yourself little rewards. She
suggests giving yourself intermittent rewards during an otherwise terrible day.
And she says it's better to get a dopamine hit
now than wait for a dopamine hit later after the
horrible day has ended. I mean, anyone who's ever treated
themselves to a bougie latte in the middle of a
(02:55):
bad day knows exactly what she's saying.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
This sounds like you. You love a sweet treat, You
don't like rewards. You don't like treats, Danielle.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
No, I'm masochistic and don't believe I deserve any treats.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh my god, I like a cappuccino in the morning.
It's a lot to unpact. That's there. We're gonna need
to bring doctor Albers on. I think, no, no, But
you love a millennial treat. I do love a millennial treat.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah yeah, Okay. Finally, here's the last one I want
to leave y'all with. Doctor Albers recommends setting up an
emotional first aid kit.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh what's that?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
So? That means keeping anything nearby that brings you joy, music, mementos,
or even just that group chat that makes you feel
less alone. This one is so huge too, Like, I
find that in the same way that a shower can
offer a sensory change, music does the same thing for me.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I also think it works the opposite way, Like when
I've been heartbroken, I make sure I don't watch sad
movies or listen to sad songs because it can really
affect your mood. I totally agree with this one. Okay,
I have a question for you based on this on
my mind Monday. I was just talking to a girlfriend
about this. If you're going through a hard time, does
(04:05):
buying things help your mood?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It does, but I don't do it. Sure it does,
but like I know that it's not. It's only a
temporary solution. It's only a band aid, and it's also
a very costly band aid, so I tend to not
do it. I've actually gotten a lot better about consumerism
in the past couple of years, Like I don't buy
as much stuff, and I'm happier because of it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
How about you. I totally agree. But sometimes.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Like, Okay, I've talked about this on the podcast before,
but like I went through a really brutal heartbreak like
four or five years ago, and it put it like
triggered childhood wounds. I was in such a bad spot,
and I remember my therapist at the time being like,
I think you should go buy yourself a leather jacket.
And I was thinking, what a dumb piece of advice,
Like aren't you supposed to like console, Like you're supposed
(04:55):
to tell me something more meaningful.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
But I kind of understand what she means me now,
Like I guess it's the sweet treat.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's the millennial treat that I was joking about, Like
sometimes you do have to treat yourself, but there is
a fine line.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So maybe you buy it for yourself and then when
you feel better, you return it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Great advice, Great advice, okay jokes aside.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
One of the things that really does help me switch
up my mood is reading a book, because especially when
I read women's stories, I feel so validated by their
experiences and it kind of takes you into a different realm.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Do you feel that way?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
One hundred percent? I find that fiction really does that
for me. And I like having almost like a book
ritual or reading ritual, like I love drawing a bath
and setting a candle on and maybe having my face
steamer on, and just like reading a book. There's something
about that ritualistic element that is really comforting whenever I'm
having a bad day.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's such a great way to unwind.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And you know, speaking of great books, our guest today
is the author of Reese's book Clubs fall Ya Pick
Looking for Smoke. For her debut novel, Ka Cobell drew
inspiration from her own experience within the Blackfeet Nation, which
is a reservation in northwest Montana. In an interview with
The Nerd Daily, Ka said she wanted to write a
story featuring Blackfeet teens because it's something she never saw
(06:17):
growing up, and as a thriller writer, she wanted to
shed light on the issue of missing and murdered Indigenous
women and its impact on the lives of those affected
by it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And that's honestly exactly what she did. In her first book,
Looking for Smoke follows fourteens on the Blackfeet Reservation, Maura, Lauren, Brody,
and Eli, who find themselves entangled in a murder investigation,
and it's up to them to clear their own names,
even though one of them may in fact be the murderer.
After the break, we're diving into it all with author
(06:49):
Ka Cobell.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Thanks to our partners at missus Myers, you can learn
a lot about a person by their dish soap. Missus
Meyers's collection of household products are inspired by the guard
and pack a punch against dirt and grind. Visit missus
meyers dot com.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Welcome to the bright Side, Ka.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Hello, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Oh We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Congrats on being selected as Reese's Book Club's fall yapic
for your book entitled Looking for Smoke. So we know
that this story is deeply personal to you. It centers
around this main character, Mara, who struggles with coming to
terms with her mixed race identity, and this is something
that you've been open about as well. Would you take
(07:41):
us into that journey a bit.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I think it all started because even before I began
writing this book, I started having a lot of questions
and doubts in myself, Like I knew this story needed
to be told, but I started thinking, like who am
I to tell this story? Like? Am I talented enough
(08:03):
to tell the story? Am I Blackfeet enough to tell
the story? And I had to kind of grapple with
those questions in thinking about my identity, and I ultimately
found a place within myself where I realized that I
am enough and my experience as a Blackfeet author, a
(08:26):
Blackfeet woman is valid, and that is the only place
where I can tell this story from. And it's one
of the biggest honors of my life to be able
to open this window into the Blackfeet culture. It is
kind of a unique experience to have something in your
life that you have such deep pride for, such a
(08:50):
reverence for, and other people have never even heard of it.
Starting the story with that in mind and getting that
confidence to do it, I think naturally came out with Mara,
and she's having all these questions as well, does she
fit here? Does she belong? Is she enough? And it
was fun to explore that with her.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I hear that your father, who is Blackfeet, has helped
you navigate those feelings that you're talking about about your identity.
How has he helped you connect with your cultural pride?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I got all my cultural pride from him, I would say,
through my whole life. He's been so good at instilling
that pride in me and my siblings. He's just always
willing to share his memories and the stories he grew
up with. While I didn't grow up on the reservation,
he did, and my older siblings were born there, but
(09:47):
he was always sure to bring us back to the reservation,
like we visit there for the tribes annual Indian Days
celebrations where there's pow wows and rodeos and dan horse
relay races. So what I think about most is sitting
there in the stands when they start the drum music.
(10:09):
And it's really hard to explain, but like you get
this feeling in your chest. It's like it's this pull
and like this reverence, like this is where I belong,
Like this is my home, these are my people, and
I tried really hard to put that experience into the
opening of Looking for Smoke, where we have Maura and
(10:31):
her family sitting in the stands at the powow and
she feels that music like a calling. And that's the
feeling I get when I think about the reservation and
home and where my family is from, like we are
connected to the whole place, to the land.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Okay, I'm obsessed with book titles and unpacking the meaning
behind them and hearing how authors arrived at them, and
yours is really special and has a special history behind it.
So your fifth great grandfather, his Indian name, there's a
connection between that name and that title Looking for Smoke.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Would you elaborate on that for us?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
So, as I was writing this book, I really wanted
it to be as authentic as possible. You know. I
put a lot of myself and my family into this
book with the memories and the stories. And another way
I wanted to do that was by using actual family
names throughout this book. And so as I was writing,
(11:34):
I was looking in my family trees and finding different
names of family members and ancestors. And one of the
names I saw was my fifth great grandfather and his
name was looking for smoke, and it just like matched
the vibe I was going for in this book. Yeah,
just you know, the elusive smoke, the feeling of like
(11:57):
chasing something you can't quite grab, something that slipped from
your fingers. And so it just made sense to use
that name in the book. And then it hit me
that it was also a perfect title.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, you have your own native name as well. How
did it feel when you got yours?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It is a very special experience for those of you
who don't know. Names are very powerful in the Black culture.
Back in the day, everyone just had their one name.
They had their name in black Feet, which was unique
to them, and today we all have our American names
(12:36):
first and last, but we are also given a name
in black Feet, and it's given to us by an
elder in the community who holds a lot of cultural
knowledge and speaks the language fluently and is very respected.
And they give you this name, and it's almost like
(12:57):
a possession, like it is given to you and it
belongs to you now. So receiving that name, it's like
this is now a piece of the culture that I hold.
Like when I got mine, which is under our woman,
I felt like I truly belonged, and I felt like
held by the community.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I want to ask you about the genre, because this
book is a thriller, but you explored sci fi and
some dystopian genres first. Why did you land on writing
a thriller.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I started with a fantasy and a little bit of dystopian,
and I tried to sci fi, and it wasn't until
I tried a thriller that I felt like I really
took ownership of my voice. It honed my craft. And
I think it's because of the stakes that are there
with a thriller. It like got its claws in me
(13:50):
and it pulled it out of me. Like people are dying,
there are murders, you are in danger, and there's just
this immediacy when you're writing that it keeps me focused
and it keeps me wanting to find out what happened interesting.
And I think if I'm not writing about life and death,
(14:11):
then it's hard for me to like hone it in.
It's like I kind of get lost in it. So
that immediacy. In those steaks, they hit me hard, just
like they hopefully will hit the reader hard.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Do you think steaks are the secret to writing a
really epic thriller.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Absolutely, that is a huge part of it. Having the
stakes feel so real that a reader just can't stop
flipping pages because they feel like they're in that danger
with the characters.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
How do you write that? How do you like create
stakes like that?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
You know? I ask myself that every time I start
a new thriller. But I think, oh, for me, a
lot of it comes from the character. I really like
to start with my character and have them be really
fleshed out and have them bringing their own baggage into
the story before it evens starts, so we care about
(15:09):
them and what they're going through even before everything hits
the fan, so that we're rooting for them, and when
they're in danger, we feel it more. And another secret
I think is secrets. You want to give all these
characters these secrets that they want to hold to the death,
(15:31):
and as an author, I need to be able to
sit with them in those secrets and the lies they tell,
giving them reasons to keep these things from their friends,
or understanding where they're coming from.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back to shelf Life with author Ka Cobell.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And we're back with author Ka Kobell.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
This thriller tells the story of two missing girls, and
it highlights the missing and murdered Indigenous women epidemic.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Why was this the issue that you wanted to center?
Speaker 4 (16:10):
I really wanted to bring in the missing and murdered
Indigenous women epidemic because it's such a serious issue and
not everyone knows about it. So, for those of you
who don't know, Native women are the victims of violent
crime far more often than any other group in our country.
Eighty four percent of Native women have experienced violence, fifty
(16:34):
six percent of them have experienced sexual violence, and Native
women are three times more likely to be murdered than
white women, and in some location that murder rate is
ten times the national average. And so these numbers, like,
when you really think about it, they're staggering. And my
(16:55):
biggest hope for looking for Smoke is that non natives
will come away with a better understanding of the issue
and a desire to learn how they can help.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
There's a question or a theme that I've heard you
speak about. It's this idea of how far would you
go to seek justice? And you say that a lot
of us, a lot of people don't have to actually
think about what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
What do you mean when you say that?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Something that I really wanted to explore in Looking for
Smoke where these family relationships. We have a lot of
sibling relationships Lauren and her grandmother, and they are all
looking out for their family members in some way, and
they all feel this desperation to protect their family members
because they don't feel like anyone else is. They have
(17:46):
this distrust in the law enforcement officers. Are they really
looking for my sister? Are they truly trying to find
the killer of my best friend? Like? They have these
questions and these doubts, and they're so worried that no
one else is going to find justice if they don't
(18:09):
do it themselves. And that's because cases are not being
solved and women are not being found. And it truly
brings out this desperation in these communities of what isn't
being done? Why is this happening? Why are our women
not being found? And I just really wanted to show
(18:30):
that because it's something that other communities may not deal
with as much, or, like I said, haven't heard of it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I think part of the unfortunate reality for people connected
to this issue is that you don't always get justice.
Oftentimes you don't get justice. I guess the question in
that is how do you make peace with the unknown?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
We don't always get closure. But something else that I've
tried to show and looking for smoke, is that we
can get some closure in community. You know, we come together,
we rally around each other, and Native communities have so
much strength and they're so tight knit and supportive of
each other, and that is how we can find peace.
(19:16):
And another one of my goals for this book was
that the Native readers will see themselves in this story
and see their families and to feel some peace in
that community, and that we're in this together and we're
fighting together, and we all want to be heard and
we want more people to pay attention.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's so important to discuss these aspects of the Native
experience seeking justice for missing and murdered Indigenous women. But
it's also really important to talk about the joyful parts
of the experience too, And I love that you incorporated
some of those joyful elements of what it means to
be Native American in this story. What are some of
(20:02):
those joyful experiences for you? Like, what does native joy
look like to you?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
When I think of the Native experience. The first thing
that always comes to mind is the humor, Like you
get in a group of Native people. You will be
laughing so much. They're so hilarious in every situation, like
they will always bring in humor. And I feel like
that is one of my weaknesses in writing. It's hard
(20:28):
to write humor, but I try to show pieces of that,
and I also think about just the traditions that brings
a lot of joy too, So that's why I wanted
to center it around a powwow where we see natives
experiencing their culture in its truest form. They are doing
(20:50):
the dancing, the traditional ceremonies, and another one of my
favorite things is to watch Indian relay races where we
have a bareback rider racing three horses around a track,
jumping off one jumping onto the next. And I wanted
to show that in the book as well, because we
(21:11):
are still here, We're still experiencing the culture together and
celebrating it.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Oka we have come to the part of our show
where we ask authors to read us a passage from
their book. There's this one scene that we have in
mind that's a reflection of a real life moment with
your dad. What's going on in this scene?
Speaker 4 (21:31):
So this book is written from multiple povs, so it
switches between four different main characters. And this scene is
from eli first Kills perspective, and he's coming to apologize Tomara,
who has felt like an outsider and Eli was one
of the colder students. To her, I bust out my
(21:55):
wise indigenous voice, looking into the distance. You have a
head presence. I feel it. You're quiet, but you're there observing,
like a hawk surveying its land. You're good medicine. She
playfully bumps my knee. I'm gonna take that as a compliment.
I drop the voice. It is when she smiles again,
(22:18):
I realize our faces are only a foot apart, and
I find myself noticing the curves of her lips as
her smile fades. If I'm a hawk, what are you?
Were already established I'm mad bear? She laughs. No, you're
not a bear, You're more like a buffalo. I bite
my tongue to hide my surprise. Sometimes you're quiet, too,
(22:39):
but you have a big presence. Everyone knows if they
cross you, you could end them. You seem calm, but
your power is very apparent. She cocks her head and nods,
just like a buffalo. You're not going to understand why.
But that's the most I've felt seen in my entire life.
(23:00):
That's all I've tried to do. Keep out of trouble
and take care of Sherry. Be the buffalo, ready to
defend her if anyone bothers us good. Her smile is
bright in the moonlight, and I can't help but smile back.
I thought you'd hate me, I would. Her gaze drifts
to the cracked sidewalk. The thing is, I didn't expect
to fit in with less than three months of school left.
(23:23):
Her mouth presses into a grimace. I knew I wouldn't
have any friends for a while, and I didn't try
that hard to make any Everyone is so tight here.
Most of you have known each other your whole lives.
You've got a bunch of family everywhere. I'm the odd
one who doesn't. I knew i'd be thought of as
this newcomer who hasn't been a part of anything. What
hurt was that I felt like my identity wasn't accepted,
(23:46):
Like I couldn't just own it. I had to prove
I deserved it or something that's not what it was,
she barrels on. It was like, I'm not full, so
I don't count. I didn't grow up here, and my
family isn't very true, so I must not know any
of the culture. I haven't been here with you, so
I'm not one of you. I shake my head. I'm
(24:08):
not full either, that's not I think everyone just thought
you didn't want to be one of us. We didn't
mean any of that.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Well.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
I already worried about where I fit in with everything,
so it just got worse moving here. I know who
I am, but if I have to prove it to
someone else, it makes me doubt myself. I guess I
don't have all the same experiences as you guys, but
being black Feet is still a huge part of my identity.
She raises her chin when she looks at me, still
proud even when she's doubting herself. The faint light from
(24:39):
the big sky makes her high cheekbones glow. She knows
who she is. She just wanted us to know too.
Your black feet, Mara Ressett. Nobody can take that from you.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So that last line, Ka that says your black feet,
Maria Risidet nobody can take that from you. I hear
that there's a deeper story behind that. Where does that
line come from?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
It goes back to what I was saying before, where
I was having a lot of questions and doubts when
I got the idea for this story, thinking am I
black feet enough? Am I the right person to tell
this story? And of course my dad came in. I
laid down all my doubts for him, and he he's
(25:25):
the one who helped me shut them down and he
said to me, I will always remember he said, your
black feet, my girl, Nobody can take that from you.
And that was so powerful to me, and I wanted
to put that into a scene because it resonated so
much with me, and I just I think everyone deserves
(25:48):
to hear that that you are enough, You belong who
you are, Nobody can take that from you.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Kay, I felt you get emotional when you we're reciting
it to us. Where did those almost tears come from?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
It's just like I wish everyone could have a support
like that, like my dad. I'm patting emotional. He will
always affirm who I am, like it's the cultural pride
comes from him, like the confidence in myself comes from
him like you are who you are and I love
(26:26):
you for it, And I just wish that everyone could
hear that, no matter who they are.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well, that's the power of writing. Right now, everybody can
hear it when they pick up your book. Are you
up for a listener question?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Sure, Okay, fantastic. This question is from Naomi Hi.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
I'm Naomi, I'm Ojibwe. I live in San Francisco. I'm
a book content creator. I use my platform to highlight
and uplift native authors. It is so important to me
that when we go into a bookstore, we have more
than just a couple of options on books written by
people who share our identities and lived experience. So I
(27:06):
would love to know more about how or what you
struggled with the most as you worked to explore such
a serious topic as MMIW, and the steps you took
to remain respectful to the very real life experiences that
people have had.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
That is an awesome question. I truly did struggle before
I started writing this book because I knew I would
need to find a very fine line in crafting a
propulsive thriller myth for entertainment and bringing in this very
(27:41):
sensitive and very real issue that is affecting communities today.
And I was afraid to start writing because I knew
how hard it would be. But I think I found
the line to walk through my characters while I was
writing these fictional cases. The feelings that the characters are
(28:02):
experiencing are real. I'm bringing in that true grief, the
feelings of betrayal, this deep sadness, this angry grief. Like
I'm bringing in feelings that are so real and feelings
that we've all experienced in some way. And if we
can sit in those feelings with the characters, I think
(28:26):
it will help us to relate to the crisis in
a more personal way if we don't already have a
personal reason. And yeah, the characters just helped me to
find the path to walk in being sensitive to the
communities while also hopefully having a page turning story. Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Well, thank you so much for your time and for
sharing your story with us.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Thank you, Ka, of course, thank you so much. This
has been awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Kay Hey Kobell is the author of Looking for Smoke,
which is the fall young adult pick for Reese's book Club.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That's it for Today's show.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Tomorrow, Comedian and actor Leanne Morgan joins us to talk
about our new memoir What in the World, A Southern
Woman's Guide to laughing at life's unexpected curveballs and beautiful blessings.
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
(29:30):
feel free to tag us at simone Voice and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Host
Simone Boyce
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