November 21, 2024 • 37 mins
The busiest time of year can be magical, but it can often lead to burnout — especially if you're a wife or mother. So, on today’s show, we want to break down how to care for ourselves while we show up for everyone in our lives, with inaugural Hello Sunshine Collective member Libby Ward. She is a digital creator, mental health advocate, and creator of the platform "Diary of An Honest Mom." She brings plenty of tips for how to set boundaries with family members and kids, and how to manage your time so this magical time of year can actually feel magical.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello Sunshine, Hey fam listen. We know the holidays can
be overwhelming. Family obligations, parties, gifts, It can feel like
a lot. So today we're taking a moment to pause
and think about how we can take care of ourselves.
Joining us today is mental health advocate and creator of
Diary of an Honest Mom.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know her from her work on the Internet. It's
Libby Ward.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's Thursday, November twenty First, I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to
share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day.
We've had a ton of holiday conversations recently, some about
the spirit and the brightness of the holidays, and some
about how to stay organized through the chaos, even how
(00:53):
to throw a great party. But I do think one
of the hardest parts of the holidays can be to
find joy all of the planning and potential stress and
potential chaos that the holidays can bring.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You know, I know what you're saying is true, Danielle,
tell me how I mean. I always know what you're
saying is true, but I can feel it in my body.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I can feel the stress in my body, you know why.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I had a bit of a traumatizing Christmas last year.
I think it's one of those ones that will always
just haunt me for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You know. It was a combination of a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
When I think about what went wrong, Hosting guests who
are in from out of town, you know, them staying
at your place. Number one, that can just be kind
of stressful because you've got more people in the mix,
making sure everyone is fed, making sure that Christmas Dinner
and Christmas Morning are magical, and also just having two
little kids running around. It was just stressful. But there
(01:50):
were a couple of moments that really stood out. I mean,
there is one stressful dinner that comes to mind. We're
sitting around the table. My oldest son was acting up
a little bit. He needs to be removed from the
situation and given some consequences. So my husband kind of
springs up to get him off of the table and
take him away. And when he does, Michael's head hits
the chandelier and hits above the table and it comes
(02:11):
like crashing down and his Michael's parents are at the
table with us too. It was like it was so
embarrassing because we're like parents lit ther best. We clearly
don't know what we're doing. We're trying to discipline our kid,
and then we wind up shattering a light that was
And then Michael and I also get into this huge
fight about like how much to spend on Christmas gifts
(02:34):
and you know who's gonna buy the Christmas gifts for
the kids, And the stress of the holidays eclipsed the
magic that I wanted to be there, and after last Christmas,
I vowed to do things differently. So that's why I
think this conversation with Libby Ward is so important today
because I just know that she's got so much wisdom
(02:54):
and knowledge, and she also brings this like sense of
peace to this conversation too, So I'm really looking forward
to hearing what she has to say.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I'm after hearing your story. I'm excited to see what
her tips are because that does not sound fun. And
we do have to put the fun back into the
holidays if it's not there, because that's really what it's
all about. Family, fun, food, all the fs. You know exactly, Well,
we're going to get into it with Livy Ward. She's
(03:22):
a digital creator and mental health advocate and the creator
of the platform Diary of an Honest Mom. She was
also part of the inaugural Hello Sunshine collective with me
and Simone.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I felt this instant connection with Libby, and I know
that everyone listening does too, because her videos are so
honest and hilarious at the same time. A lot of
her work centers on changing narratives around gender roles in
the home, and she's going to be talking about how
to set boundaries with kids and family members, how we
can manage our time better, and most importantly, how we
(03:52):
can actually enjoy ourselves during the holiday season.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
What Simone said, all right, let's bring her in. Livy Ward,
Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here today.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Okay, so Libby is part of our Hello Sunshine fam
part of the collective. Yes, so we've all gotten to
know each other, so it's not like a first meeting.
I always tell everyone that Hello Sunshine has a great
picker because yes, you know, yes, everyone they invite to
join the group or the company is always just smart
(04:24):
and kind and awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, I'm like, I feel like they've got to have
some type of formula of like do they or what
are they?
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Okay, well, today is actually sort of me asking for
a friend because I am terrible at saying no, and
for years I've been telling everyone I'm terrible at it.
I still can't get better. You are an expert. It's
saying no.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Oh, thank you. I don't feel like an expert, but
I feel like I've had to become one. So just
do it, scared, is the long and short of it.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Why do you think you've had to become an expert
in saying no?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Because I I'm a recovering people pleaser, and I, for
a long time was that person who could never say
no and put my own needs on the back burner
for so long, to the point that I didn't even
consciously recognize that I was doing it. It was so
natural for me to want to make other people happy
before I made myself happy, that it wasn't even a
(05:18):
question in my mind. And it wasn't until I burned
out and resented everyone in my life that I realized
I need to make a change somewhere. And when I
say realized, I mean it was like a lot of therapy.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So you actually wrote a series all about this navigating
your Nose, which resonated with so many of your followers,
and so we want to explore that more.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What exactly set that off?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Was it a specific incident in your life, a story
that you can think of.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
I mean, I have countless stories of times in my
life when I have said yes to everybody and then
resented them and been burned out. But I would say
that the highlight of my burnout time is you. During
the holidays, I want to do fun things, and I
want to bring the holiday magic, and I want to
like cultivate nice moments, and I just want to make
(06:10):
everybody happy. It really is like a reflection of the
rest of the year. But like on steroids, and so,
both of my parents they are not working, they don't
have cars, like my dad was disabled. So even like
before my kids were born, I was really in a
supportive role for both of my parents, whether it was
their health or sometimes their finances or the different practical
(06:33):
needs for them. And so then that also meant that
at Christmas time, I had two parents who were divorced,
and I would host two separate Christmases. So if I
go back to like twenty seventeen, I have a two
year old and a baby, and I am hosting Christmas
(06:54):
for my mom, and then I'm hosting a separate Christmas
for my dad. And I'm making a full meal, and
I'm coordinating who's picking them up and taking them home,
and I'm taking them both Christmas shopping for both of
my kids and giving them the ideas. And I just
wanted so much to be that mom who could give
my kids a really special Christmas but then also felt
responsible for my parents as well. And I would get
(07:18):
to like Christmas Day, I wouldn't even have fun, like
I would be so tired. I couldn't even be present
watching my kids opening their presence. I was snappy at people,
I was irritable, I was just falling apart. That's kind
of how the Holidays always went for me. And that
was just like my regular life, but on steroids. And
then in twenty twenty one, I forget what year it was, anyway,
(07:42):
my dad went into the hospital at the beginning of December,
and his health had been not good for a long time.
And I thought about how burnt out I always got
and how kind of miserable I was, and I just
had this moment when I was like, I'm not going
to do that anymore. Like maybe I want to see people,
but I don't want to cook a big meal. Maybe
I'm going to see both my parents, but I'm not
going to host it things like that. So I decided
(08:03):
I was going to make this change and I wanted
to spend more time with my dad and have meaningful
time with him because I hadn't. And then my dad
died the day after Christmas and I never got to
do that with him. It's almost like not till it's
too late that I'm like, why have I been living
like this? Like why do I just give and give
(08:24):
and give and give and give and not think about
it until later? And so that was really like a
pivotal time for me to be like how do I
want to live my life? Like how do I want
to feel when I'm with my people? And is more
always better?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
No, it sounds like a major turning point in your life.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, losing my dad and reflecting back on how I
had spent so many Decembers was like, I don't want
to do that anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
How did it change how you celebrate the holidays? Now?
What do you guys do?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So I had to sit down and be like, what
do I actually want? Yes, yes, there's what other people want,
but what do I actually want what actually brings me joy?
And I realized that what brings me joy is being
with my people and like having the energy to do
those things with my people. And one thing I decided
(09:20):
is that I'm not going to cook a turkey dinner
on Christmas Day. Like that's the dumbest idea I've ever
had in my life. How stupid is so dumb? It's
me dumbest, Like I had mom friends be like, oh,
my gosh, tradition. I decided it was going to be
a stupid tradition. I don't know why, Like it's the
most complicated. It's not like I was like, Oh, I'm
(09:41):
going to go to my aunt's house and bring like
a care at cast role, Like that's a lot of work. No, Like, oh,
I'm going to make a whole friggin' turkey on like
the busiest day of the year while I'm supposed to
be enjoying my kids.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
It's not a tradition, but it's just it's the idea
of having to prepare this once a year momentous feast
on the same day when you're supposed to be sitting
with your kids enjoying watching them playing with their new
toys and just soaking up all the magic. No, we're
in the kitchen laboring, trying to ridiculous all these people
that are staying with us.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I what's the alternative? Like how do you guys? I
know it sounds really dumb.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
As it Chinese is the resident jew here?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Or I'm wondering what you do you order in?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Okay, So that's what we've started doing. I'm like, Okay,
what is important to me? People are important to me.
So that means I don't need to cook a turkey dinner.
That means that either I'm cooking it days before and
I'm heating up leftovers, which that I highly recommend if
you like really want that like Turkey day feeling and
you don't get it from anywhere else. Because I also, like,
I don't have lots of family get togethers to go to,
(10:43):
so if I don't make the turkey dinner, the turkey
dinner doesn't happen. Yeah, And that's another part of it
that I'm like, I want this to be a part
of like the smells and the sounds and the like
I want that to be a part of my kid's childhood,
but if I am not the person to do it,
it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
So I was like, Okay, either we're going to order
in or I'm going to mix something ahead and then
do leftovers, and so finding ways to like still do
the things that are important to me, but in an
easier way.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Do these moments make you both reflect on the labor
that your mother and or grandmother like whoever was at
the helm of these traditions.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
A thousand years?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah for me, it did. I mean there's two phases
of motherhood. You become a mom and then you become
the matriarch of the family, and like that happens at
different points, right, But to me, the idea of like
stepping into that matriarch role is like, you're now the
one hosting the dinners. You're now the one hosting the holidays,
and you're the one kind of responsible for generating all
the magic around the holidays. And as I started to
(11:44):
step into that role and host more, I was blown
away by how much work and preparation went into it.
Like we're talking, you've got to start two weeks before
getting your ingredient list together a week before cooking. I
had a conversation with someone the other day. I can't
remember who it was, but she was telling me the
Christmases and the holidays that you remember are from when
(12:05):
you were a bit older. So it's not like you
don't remember seeing your mom, you know, stressed out, max
it out with her two toddlers, you know, hanging on
her ankles. Like, we don't remember that, but that did happen.
Our moms just were able to like take some time
(12:26):
to figure out how to master all this, and the
holidays that we actually remember that were truly magical are
once our moms had the practice to do it for
long enough and feel like they could manage it right well.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
And in my scenario, like I didn't have that mom,
and so we sometimes went to like a larger family
get together at an ant's house or something like that. Yeah,
but my mom wasn't the Martha Stewart, and she didn't
do those things necessarily, Like she loved gift giving and
she made Christmas Morning magical and things like that. But
(12:57):
there was a lot of things that I had kind
of wished for or wanted for in my childhood in
general and around the holidays and things I saw in
movies are in my friend's houses.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Was that some of the pressure you're trying to create this.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Absolutely absolutely So It's not like I had these traditions
handed down to me and this like this is how
you do it, or even a model of like what
that looks like. I didn't have it, And because I
wanted to make it magical, I went above and beyond.
And so rather than having this like average bar of
good enough, I had this like super high bar of
(13:30):
like I want to give my kids something that I
never had. And so I sort of entered that like
matriarch role. I feel like when I became an adult,
like before I even became a mom, and I enjoyed
like making parties special and I enjoyed like making it
pretty and cooking and having people over and all of that.
And it wasn't until I became a mom of multiple
(13:51):
kids that I was like, what the frig, Like this
is a lot of work, This is so much work.
Why the frig am I doing this to myself? Like
why am I doing all of it? And when I
had this epiphany of like wanting to change. It was like,
what I really want to give my kids that I
never had is a mom that is emotionally regulated and
(14:13):
present and not so stressed out that I'm disassociated staring
at the ceiling when they're opening a gift that I
worked really hard to give them, Like I would rather
them have less gifts and less traditions and less of
all the stupid crap that everyone says we need to
do and these like unrealistic expectations.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And more of a fun mom.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Yeah, I want to be a fun mom. I want
to be present and I like having fun with my kids.
And I just got to a point where I wasn't
fun with my kids or with myself. I like, I
want to enjoy this and I'm not.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I actually feel like I owe my mom a huge
apology because she was a working mom who did everything,
and so she was at the helm of so many
of our traditions. And my brother and my dad and
I would make fun of my mom because we're like
at every single holiday or event, she's yelling, she's stressed out,
(15:07):
and we would just barely get dressed and show up.
And it's not till I turn thirty two or thirty three.
Did I realize she's only stressed out because no one
is helping and.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Because she's doing it for you. Yes, yeah, that mixture
of like she's doing it for me and no one
else is doing anything, and the difference it can make
to have other people in the house participate and like
making the magic happen is huge.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
We have to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back with Libby Ward. And we're back with Libby Ward.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So you had your epiphany in twenty twenty one, marked
by tremendous grief. I had a different kind of epiphany
last year, but similar takeaway, just that like I cannot
continue to do the holidays a way that I'm doing it.
Last year truly traumatized me the holidays. Yeah, oh yeah,
I was traumatizing. My sons were three and two, and again,
(16:12):
it's everything that you just said. I just resonated with
everything that you just said, like putting this tremendous pressure
on myself to look good in front of the relatives
who are coming in town, to make it feel magical
for my kids, which just left me completely depleted. And
I turned to my fellow moms in a group chat
that we have and turns out everyone was going through
(16:34):
the exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It's just no one talks about it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Like my friend said this, She said, I just yelled
at everyone and said today I feel like I'm in
hell and I can't stand them all. Merry Christmas, right,
you know? And I told her, I said, I don't
think I'm doing this again next year. I think I'm
getting it all catered and I'm not hosting. She said,
I feel like it was the Christmas from Hell, ninety
percent chaotic, maybe ten percent enjoyable. One last thing, my
(16:58):
friend said to me, why does everyone else look like
they had a magical time on social media?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Like are they different or are they just they're gnaying
about it.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
They're not different.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't think they're different.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
No, they're not different. Well, okay, I think that some
people are different, like maybe they have larger support networks,
and maybe they are showing after their mom's house and
their mom's doing everything and they get to play with
the kids because the older generation is doing it. But
I think for the majority, it's the same for everyone.
And then there's this other piece of the emotional labor
of managing people that you're seeing around the holidays. That
(17:30):
you maybe don't see as often. They don't see each
other as often. There's drama, there's you know, this aunt
doesn't want to sit beside this ant, and this kid
doesn't get along with this kid, and your husband's doing X,
Y Z, and so you're not only doing all the
things and thinking about all the things and planning all
the things, but then you're having to manage people's moods
and behavior and is everyone okay? And as everyone feeling it,
(17:53):
and you're left with absolutely no energy, and it does.
It is like the Christmas from Hell.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
There's so much power in just talk talking about it
and realizing that we all have shared experiences. I remember
feeling less alone when I talked about it with my friends.
I feel less alone now when I'm talking about it
with you. I know that we want to talk about solutions.
How have you brought your husband into all this?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
We have been having conversations about how we share the
labor in our home since we got married fifteen years ago.
I became a mom ten years ago, and our conversations
have evolved over time, just like our needs and our
jobs and our circumstances have evolved over time. And one
of the things that people always ask me is like,
how do I have a conversation about the mental load
with my partner? How do I start this conversation? How
(18:38):
do I do this? And I think there's like this
idea that there's going to be one conversation where you're like,
I've been doing it all and I can't do it
anymore and I need help, and this is what the
mental load is, and here's the perfect words to explain it.
And he or she is going to be like, oh
my gosh, I didn't realize that's so terrible. I will
take exactly half of it now and everything is solved.
(19:00):
They we're all good. But the reality is that it
takes a lot of conversations and compassion and empathy and
understanding and just like constantly coming back to it and
working on that throughout the year and your partnership before
the holidays. But I would say that if you can
be like be having these conversations all the time and
(19:21):
get to a point where the things your husband or
your partner are doing are not considered help. If your
partner is cooking or cleaning or looking after your shared children,
they aren't helping you. They are their children as well,
and so the language we use is really important. And
so I would say, if someone's going into the holidays,
(19:41):
so you're like, I'm stressed the frig out, what do
I do? Sit down with your partner, talk about what
is important to you, what is something you actually really
want to do, what is important to them, So like
hearing each other's what are your expectations, what are your hopes,
and then deciding what is sustainable and reasonable and like
what are you going to do? And then how are
(20:02):
you going to split that up? So for me, gift
giving is a lot of work, but I also like it.
And so having a conversation with my husband to be like, hey,
I understand that I like gift giving, but also it
is work and it takes time. What are things that
you can do in the time that I am doing that,
(20:24):
whether it's like him taking more responsibility for the kids,
whether it's him hanging the lights on the house, like
different things like that, so that it's not always just
assumed that everything is my responsibility, even if it's a
value of mine.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
So we just interviewed an expert on boundaries, Nedra Tawab,
and she shared two terms with us. Poorest boundaries and
rigid boundaries, and I'm curious how you determine which boundaries
are right for you over the holidays, because you seem
to have more rigid boundaries, but the holidays are so
much about other people's knows and yeses. I'm curious how
(20:58):
you think about everyone's wants and needs while also thinking
about yourself more Now, it's a.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Really good question. I think that it depends on the boundary,
and it depends on the person. There's people in my
life that I need to have very rigid boundaries with
people that I say, this is what I'm able and
willing to do, kind of take it or leave it,
and if this boundary is crossed, then this is what's
going to happen. And I have to follow through on
that because of their personality type or the relationship or
something like that. And so I just communicate that clearly
(21:26):
and then I follow through with what I say I'm
going to do. There's other people in other scenarios where
they are more porous, and you know, they can be
a little bit more flexible, and you have to be
because it's a busy time and people are human and
people make mistakes and sometimes things take more work than
you thought they were going to take. And I think
it's a lot about being aware of yourself and your
(21:50):
needs and your capacity and then actually communicating those things.
And so now I just really try to practice this
self awareness. I guess of like what is that going
to take out of me? Like how much is that
going to take? Something we don't talk about is like
the labor of boundary setting, yeah, right, like the mental labor. Yeah,
(22:10):
the mental labor of it, like the energy that it expends.
And if you have healthy relationships in your life, saying hey,
I'm not going to be hosting Christmas dinner anymore and
cooking everything. We still would love to see you, but
we're actually gonna order in. You can have that conversation
with someone and they could be like, cool, that's great.
(22:31):
Like my you know, my brother and his wife are
like that's great. We joke that I'm like Libby two
point zero now, like I was Libby one point zero
and I was like a basket case every Christmas, and
they're like, we like Libby two point Oh. Libby two
point zero also then like forgets a lot of stuff
because she tries to be relaxed, and so we choke
that it's like a little maybe more chaotic, never like,
(22:51):
and I'm like, yeah, if you want me to be
more relaxed, you have to just deal with that. There's
going to be more chaos and maybe I'm not going
to have everyone's favorite drink, Like that's just going to
be how it is. And yet there's other people where
you could have that exact same conversation, Hey, we're going
to order in from now on, and like Grandma Bernadette
is like, well, you can't do that because we've done
this for this many years and this is what the
(23:13):
holidays look like and that's what this is. And so
that takes so much energy, and that is something that
you want to talk about with your partner as well, Like,
if you're going to set all these boundaries, why are
we the ones that have to stay to the mother
in law? This is not what we're going to do
this yere? Why can't they have that conversation? Yeah, And
like recognizing the work it takes to explain to everybody
(23:35):
else how much energy, recognizing the work it takes to
set boundaries with people and then sharing that work as well.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Some of our worst arguments as husband and wife have
been around boundary setting with family members.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's really it's really, really hard.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
And I think sometimes I don't want to put words
in your mouth, but sometimes like they don't see the
need to set the boundaries or say the hard thing
because they aren't the ones that are impact by it, right.
They maybe are like, oh, we don't want conflict, Like
we don't really need to say that. It's not really
a big deal. But at the end of the day,
who's the one that ends up doing the work and
ends up being burnt out?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, you are.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
When it comes to setting boundaries. Do you have any
specific examples of effective language that's really been helpful for you.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
I lean away from giving the full explanation of why,
so as opposed to specific language, I would just say
that I'm very conscious of being, Hey, this is what
we're going to do this year, and this is what
it's going to look like. I'm looking forward to seeing
you just wanted to set that expectation or we are
(24:41):
not going to be able to make it to that. Unfortunately,
I'm sorry, not hey, thanks for inviting me. I'm so sorry,
but I'm so overwhelmed right now because this person wants this,
and this person wants this, and I'm burnt out at
work and I'm going through this thing, and I have
this appointment, and that appointment like giving them the full
explanation of why, just saying no, sorry, we're unable to
(25:03):
make it. You don't need to tell them what else
you're doing, Like if you are laying down on the
couch at home eating bonbonds, that is busy. That is busy.
You don't need to fill every moment. You are not
free just because you don't have plans, like resting is
a plan.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Because you don't really want to open up the door
to unraveling the boundary, right, And I feel like sometimes
when we over communicate, that's what can happen.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Right well, and then people question your decisions more likely,
Oh well, if the reason you can't come is because
little Susie has a recital at six, we can just
have the dinner at eight. And then you're like, oh
my gosh, no, I just didn't want to go, So
you don't made point.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I never thought about that.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
All the reason less is more yes, no details, Yeah, sorry,
can't make it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
It's time for another quick break.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
We'll be right back, And we're back with Libby Ward
there's a book that I feel like anyone who is
listening to this conversation, who is feeling this and this
is resonating with you, I would highly recommend that you
read Pooja Lash means Real self Care. She talks about
(26:15):
exactly that, how to set boundaries, and what you mentioned
about being succinct but also authoritative is what she instructs
us to do. Another thing that she wrote and when
I read this, I exhaled, My shoulders loosened, my jaw loosened,
I was able to exhale, accept the identity of the
good enough mom.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Oh one hundred percent. I was talking about this morning
with a friend.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, and vocalize that in your inner dialogue, instead of
striving for perfection, instead of trying to be mini Mouse
around the holidays and create this magical environment, except that.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I'm the good enough mom. I'm not always going to
get it right, but I'm still good enough.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Absolutely. And also this piece of just because it feels
wrong doesn't mean it is wrong. And I have really
had to push through that discomfort of I am going
to say no because it is in alignment with what
I want to do, while fully accepting that my insides
are turning. And just because my insides are turning, it
doesn't mean I should change my decision exactly. Just because
(27:17):
I feel like viscerally ill I saying no, that doesn't
mean that I should be saying yes. So like working
through that discomfort, and like with anything, with any practice,
it gets better. I thought that I would always feel
like that, and the first few times I.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Was like, oh my god, what are they going to do?
Speaker 4 (27:35):
What are they going to say? And even if they
did guilt trip me, I would feel terrible. But then
you do it, and you do it again, and you
do it again, and then you realize like the world
is not going to end. And also, if someone is
throwing a fit because you're setting a boundary, that is
a very good sign that you required boundaries.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, that you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I love what you said about it just being a muscle,
because it can feel so foreign and uncomfortable, especially if
you're a covering people pleaser. But the more that we
practice honoring that internal compass of desire, the easier it's
going to get.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Okay, so your kids are eight and ten. There, I'm
wondering how you navigate having a conversation with them about
Santa's work versus your work, because you're really doing quite
a lot and no one is giving Libby credit. Everybody's
crediting Santa.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
The patriarch stends all the way to the north Pole.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Oh my goodness, we could do a whole podcast on
the North Pole Santa, and like missus classes that is
a representation of the entire patriarchy.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Someone should do a cartoon movie about that. Oh my goodness, Like,
let me do a short film. He gets all the credit.
He shows up one day and gets snacks the whole way.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Everyone's like, yeah, Santa, clap for him, and he just
gets snacks and he gets to like be the good guy,
and she's doing for me and managing all the elves. Wow,
it's unbelievable. And so I try to be really conscientious
of doing things with them around and explaining to them,
like how much work things are. It is a joy.
(29:11):
I love being able to do it. I love being
able to shower you with like love and gifts and
all the things. But it is work and it takes energy.
So this year my husband and I started doing fair
play more so. Evrovsky wrote a book called fair play,
which is all about like the division of labor and
how you share different tasks. And so we sort of
set the cards out at the beginning of the school
(29:33):
year last year and we're like, what are we gonna
how we're going to change things. And one of the
biggest changes is that my husband now does the admin
for our family. So he's signing the kids up for sports,
he's signing their agendas each night, like he's doing the
communication back and forth with the school. It is just
as amazing as it sounds like. It's a lot of work,
so great, Like I'm just like the dad now, Like
(29:55):
I show up to soccer practice, I'm like, my husband
told me it's this field. Like it's like a joke
that I'm just like the mom that's like out of
touch with what's happening, and it's exceptional.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I just love you going into that soccer field and
like breaking down stereotypes, Like I just love that.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
It's just like and now the moms will be like
they'll ask me something and they'll be like, oh wait,
never mind, will ask Greg And I'm like, good you
you go ask, can't ask. That is how it's gonna be.
But what's cool is my kids. Well, like let's say
they're packing their agenda to go to school in the morning,
They'll be like, oh, Dad, forgot to sign my agenda,
And it just shows that they see that it's not
(30:33):
just my job. And so it's like the same with
the holidays. What's dad's job, what's mom's job, what's your job? Kids?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Okay, I need to know what are you both excited
for this holiday season.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I feel conflicted about this whole conversation because I know
that it can sound very heavy or like you can
hear the frustration as we're talking about it. But at
the same time, like nobody loves the holidays more than
this girl.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I love the holidays.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
I know same.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I I start watching Christmas movies in like the next
two weeks and I'll be watching them through January.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I just need to, honestly, I need to honor myself.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I need to like put my money where my mouth
is and start doing the things that I've said I'm
gonna do. So I think when I think about, like,
what are the things that are going to allow me
to enjoy the holidays? Setting a two gift limit this
is something that my friends have talked about, like setting
a two gift limit for your kids, talked about like
ordering food, talked about even like setting responsibilities and roles
(31:32):
for family members. I'm looking forward to the holidays. I
just need to need to do it right and like
honor my needs.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I love that I'm looking forward to food. I love
food so much. Yeah, And I am becoming more okay
with like not being in charge of all the food. Right, So,
whether it's catering or ordering in or being like, hey,
it's Pollock style, everyone brings something, yeah, and being clear
about what I want, Like I know in the past
my sister in law's been like, what do you want
me to bring? And I'd be like whatever, And now
(32:00):
I'm like, can you please bring your pe cheese and
potato castrole, like I desperately need that and an apple pie? Right,
Like I like just being clear about those things. I yeah,
like food and people. It's like I want to be
with my people. And so I am going to the
holidays with like a less is more yes attitude of Okay,
maybe we're not going to do the breakfast with Santa,
(32:22):
and we're not going to do like the cutting down
the tree together, and we're not going to do this.
But the things we are going to do, let's do
them really well, and like, let's enjoy it and let's
be present and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
How about you, Daniel, Well, I have two things. One
is my grandmother's mots ball soup. I crave it all
the time, and no DELI can ever make it the
way my grandma makes it.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
But I want a grandma like your grandma more than
you know.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Libby, you were invited any holiday, am I, Oh my god,
with your kids. She has an open door policy.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
We're coming.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
She has extra seats sometimes that she just leaves open
in case anyone wants to come. So sweet, So you're
so welcome. Otherwise I can try and freeze it and
send it to you. I'm doing something this year. I
realized that as I've gotten busier and busier in life,
I am so me centric right now in my life,
and I am the happiest when I'm like you centric.
(33:19):
And so I convinced my parents and my brother that
we're all going to be of service this holiday season
instead of getting any gifts. And I think it's going
to feel really nice.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
It is.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I haven't even mentioned this, but like five years ago.
One thing my family did so the adults rather than
buying gifts for each other or even doing a secret Sanna, Yeah,
we do an experience.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So we're all.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Going to go to the theater together, or we're all
going to do an event together or in activity and
you remember and then you actually get to be with
one another and it's less work.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And less money.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I'm thinking, I don't need more things at this in
my life. I don't want more possessions. I say the
time and the memories are more important. Libya, I wanted
to ask you about grief during the holidays. I'm thinking
of all my friends who've also lost parents or people
are really important to them. What are the things that
you do to take care of yourself from a grief perspective.
(34:19):
Are there any rituals that you have that help you
honor those family members who are no longer with us
During the holidays, I'm.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
A sad person during the holidays. I feel all the feelings.
I mean, I'm a deep feeler anyway, but the holidays
highlights both for me, right Like, I feel the good
feelings really good, and I feel the hard feelings. And
so I know you're referencing family members who aren't with us,
and that is a huge grief, you know, I don't
have my dad anymore. But there's also a grief that
(34:47):
a lot of people feel myself included around maybe their
family in general, like maybe it not looking like what
they thought it was going to look like, or maybe
some toxicity in their family, or you know, some estrangement
and their family with like parents or siblings and things
like that. And so I can grieve a lot of
different things during the holidays, and I think that's a
(35:08):
common thread for a lot of people, whether they have
a similar scenario to me or not. And what I
try to do is get ahead of the game. I
try to build in moments with people who I know
are going to like fill my heart. So one practical
thing I do is I stay off of social media
as much as I can, especially on like Christmas Day,
(35:31):
like on the days where I know everyone's going to
be posting with their families, like I won't even look
because I know it'll just like tear my heart out.
My journal, so I'm like writing down the things I
am grateful for, whether it's the traditions that I'm cultivating
or memories that we're making or things that I enjoy,
and so I just try to like build things in
(35:52):
that help me to focus on the good that I
do have in my life and honor the really hard things.
With my dad, for example, when I was cleaning out
his apartment after he died, you know, like there's so
much stuff, and I'm like, I can't keep all this stuff,
Like I don't really know what to do. But I
was really intentional about a few of the things that
I kept, and they were like dishes in the kitchen.
There's like a particular I think it was a milk
(36:15):
jug and it's got this like nineteen seventies pattern on it,
and so that has become like our gravy boat, and
I bring that out during the holidays. It's like a
really specific thing. Like it almost like feels like he's
like at the table with us a little bit. Yeah,
And so we can sometimes either just get stuck in
the hard and like focusing on the hard or just
try to stay so busy we don't think about it.
(36:36):
Not feeling the hard things doesn't make them not come.
Taking time to actually honor that, like to honor the
difficult feelings while also then like looking to the good
and knowing that two things can be true at the
same time.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
That's very powerful. Libby, Thank you so much for coming
on the right side.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Thank you for having me. This is such a good
conversation I could to just go on and on.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Thanks for joining us today, Libby.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Libby Ward is a digital creator, speaker, and mental health advocate.
You can find her on Instagram at Diary of an
Honest Mom.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with
comedian and content creator Rachel Samples.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at Simone Voice and at
danielle Robe.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hello Sunshine, Hey fam listen. We know the holidays can
be overwhelming. Family obligations, parties, gifts, It can feel like
a lot. So today we're taking a moment to pause
and think about how we can take care of ourselves.
Joining us today is mental health advocate and creator of
Diary of an Honest Mom.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
You know her from her work on the Internet. It's
Libby Ward.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's Thursday, November twenty First, I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to
share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day.
We've had a ton of holiday conversations recently, some about
the spirit and the brightness of the holidays, and some
about how to stay organized through the chaos, even how
(00:53):
to throw a great party. But I do think one
of the hardest parts of the holidays can be to
find joy all of the planning and potential stress and
potential chaos that the holidays can bring.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You know, I know what you're saying is true, Danielle,
tell me how I mean. I always know what you're
saying is true, but I can feel it in my body.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I can feel the stress in my body, you know why.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I had a bit of a traumatizing Christmas last year.
I think it's one of those ones that will always
just haunt me for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You know. It was a combination of a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
When I think about what went wrong, Hosting guests who
are in from out of town, you know, them staying
at your place. Number one, that can just be kind
of stressful because you've got more people in the mix,
making sure everyone is fed, making sure that Christmas Dinner
and Christmas Morning are magical, and also just having two
little kids running around. It was just stressful. But there
(01:50):
were a couple of moments that really stood out. I mean,
there is one stressful dinner that comes to mind. We're
sitting around the table. My oldest son was acting up
a little bit. He needs to be removed from the
situation and given some consequences. So my husband kind of
springs up to get him off of the table and
take him away. And when he does, Michael's head hits
the chandelier and hits above the table and it comes
(02:11):
like crashing down and his Michael's parents are at the
table with us too. It was like it was so
embarrassing because we're like parents lit ther best. We clearly
don't know what we're doing. We're trying to discipline our kid,
and then we wind up shattering a light that was
And then Michael and I also get into this huge
fight about like how much to spend on Christmas gifts
(02:34):
and you know who's gonna buy the Christmas gifts for
the kids, And the stress of the holidays eclipsed the
magic that I wanted to be there, and after last Christmas,
I vowed to do things differently. So that's why I
think this conversation with Libby Ward is so important today
because I just know that she's got so much wisdom
(02:54):
and knowledge, and she also brings this like sense of
peace to this conversation too, So I'm really looking forward
to hearing what she has to say.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I'm after hearing your story. I'm excited to see what
her tips are because that does not sound fun. And
we do have to put the fun back into the
holidays if it's not there, because that's really what it's
all about. Family, fun, food, all the fs. You know exactly, Well,
we're going to get into it with Livy Ward. She's
(03:22):
a digital creator and mental health advocate and the creator
of the platform Diary of an Honest Mom. She was
also part of the inaugural Hello Sunshine collective with me
and Simone.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I felt this instant connection with Libby, and I know
that everyone listening does too, because her videos are so
honest and hilarious at the same time. A lot of
her work centers on changing narratives around gender roles in
the home, and she's going to be talking about how
to set boundaries with kids and family members, how we
can manage our time better, and most importantly, how we
(03:52):
can actually enjoy ourselves during the holiday season.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
What Simone said, all right, let's bring her in. Livy Ward,
Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here today.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Okay, so Libby is part of our Hello Sunshine fam
part of the collective. Yes, so we've all gotten to
know each other, so it's not like a first meeting.
I always tell everyone that Hello Sunshine has a great
picker because yes, you know, yes, everyone they invite to
join the group or the company is always just smart
(04:24):
and kind and awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, I'm like, I feel like they've got to have
some type of formula of like do they or what
are they?
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Like?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Okay, well, today is actually sort of me asking for
a friend because I am terrible at saying no, and
for years I've been telling everyone I'm terrible at it.
I still can't get better. You are an expert. It's
saying no.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Oh, thank you. I don't feel like an expert, but
I feel like I've had to become one. So just
do it, scared, is the long and short of it.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Why do you think you've had to become an expert
in saying no?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Because I I'm a recovering people pleaser, and I, for
a long time was that person who could never say
no and put my own needs on the back burner
for so long, to the point that I didn't even
consciously recognize that I was doing it. It was so
natural for me to want to make other people happy
before I made myself happy, that it wasn't even a
(05:18):
question in my mind. And it wasn't until I burned
out and resented everyone in my life that I realized
I need to make a change somewhere. And when I
say realized, I mean it was like a lot of therapy.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So you actually wrote a series all about this navigating
your Nose, which resonated with so many of your followers,
and so we want to explore that more.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What exactly set that off?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Was it a specific incident in your life, a story
that you can think of.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
I mean, I have countless stories of times in my
life when I have said yes to everybody and then
resented them and been burned out. But I would say
that the highlight of my burnout time is you. During
the holidays, I want to do fun things, and I
want to bring the holiday magic, and I want to
like cultivate nice moments, and I just want to make
(06:10):
everybody happy. It really is like a reflection of the
rest of the year. But like on steroids, and so,
both of my parents they are not working, they don't
have cars, like my dad was disabled. So even like
before my kids were born, I was really in a
supportive role for both of my parents, whether it was
their health or sometimes their finances or the different practical
(06:33):
needs for them. And so then that also meant that
at Christmas time, I had two parents who were divorced,
and I would host two separate Christmases. So if I
go back to like twenty seventeen, I have a two
year old and a baby, and I am hosting Christmas
(06:54):
for my mom, and then I'm hosting a separate Christmas
for my dad. And I'm making a full meal, and
I'm coordinating who's picking them up and taking them home,
and I'm taking them both Christmas shopping for both of
my kids and giving them the ideas. And I just
wanted so much to be that mom who could give
my kids a really special Christmas but then also felt
responsible for my parents as well. And I would get
(07:18):
to like Christmas Day, I wouldn't even have fun, like
I would be so tired. I couldn't even be present
watching my kids opening their presence. I was snappy at people,
I was irritable, I was just falling apart. That's kind
of how the Holidays always went for me. And that
was just like my regular life, but on steroids. And
then in twenty twenty one, I forget what year it was, anyway,
(07:42):
my dad went into the hospital at the beginning of December,
and his health had been not good for a long time.
And I thought about how burnt out I always got
and how kind of miserable I was, and I just
had this moment when I was like, I'm not going
to do that anymore. Like maybe I want to see people,
but I don't want to cook a big meal. Maybe
I'm going to see both my parents, but I'm not
going to host it things like that. So I decided
(08:03):
I was going to make this change and I wanted
to spend more time with my dad and have meaningful
time with him because I hadn't. And then my dad
died the day after Christmas and I never got to
do that with him. It's almost like not till it's
too late that I'm like, why have I been living
like this? Like why do I just give and give
(08:24):
and give and give and give and not think about
it until later? And so that was really like a
pivotal time for me to be like how do I
want to live my life? Like how do I want
to feel when I'm with my people? And is more
always better?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
No, it sounds like a major turning point in your life.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, losing my dad and reflecting back on how I
had spent so many Decembers was like, I don't want
to do that anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
How did it change how you celebrate the holidays? Now?
What do you guys do?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
So I had to sit down and be like, what
do I actually want? Yes, yes, there's what other people want,
but what do I actually want what actually brings me joy?
And I realized that what brings me joy is being
with my people and like having the energy to do
those things with my people. And one thing I decided
(09:20):
is that I'm not going to cook a turkey dinner
on Christmas Day. Like that's the dumbest idea I've ever
had in my life. How stupid is so dumb? It's
me dumbest, Like I had mom friends be like, oh,
my gosh, tradition. I decided it was going to be
a stupid tradition. I don't know why, Like it's the
most complicated. It's not like I was like, Oh, I'm
(09:41):
going to go to my aunt's house and bring like
a care at cast role, Like that's a lot of work. No, Like, oh,
I'm going to make a whole friggin' turkey on like
the busiest day of the year while I'm supposed to
be enjoying my kids.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
It's not a tradition, but it's just it's the idea
of having to prepare this once a year momentous feast
on the same day when you're supposed to be sitting
with your kids enjoying watching them playing with their new
toys and just soaking up all the magic. No, we're
in the kitchen laboring, trying to ridiculous all these people
that are staying with us.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I what's the alternative? Like how do you guys? I
know it sounds really dumb.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
As it Chinese is the resident jew here?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Or I'm wondering what you do you order in?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Okay, So that's what we've started doing. I'm like, Okay,
what is important to me? People are important to me.
So that means I don't need to cook a turkey dinner.
That means that either I'm cooking it days before and
I'm heating up leftovers, which that I highly recommend if
you like really want that like Turkey day feeling and
you don't get it from anywhere else. Because I also, like,
I don't have lots of family get togethers to go to,
(10:43):
so if I don't make the turkey dinner, the turkey
dinner doesn't happen. Yeah, And that's another part of it
that I'm like, I want this to be a part
of like the smells and the sounds and the like
I want that to be a part of my kid's childhood,
but if I am not the person to do it,
it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
So I was like, Okay, either we're going to order
in or I'm going to mix something ahead and then
do leftovers, and so finding ways to like still do
the things that are important to me, but in an
easier way.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Do these moments make you both reflect on the labor
that your mother and or grandmother like whoever was at
the helm of these traditions.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
A thousand years?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah for me, it did. I mean there's two phases
of motherhood. You become a mom and then you become
the matriarch of the family, and like that happens at
different points, right, But to me, the idea of like
stepping into that matriarch role is like, you're now the
one hosting the dinners. You're now the one hosting the holidays,
and you're the one kind of responsible for generating all
the magic around the holidays. And as I started to
(11:44):
step into that role and host more, I was blown
away by how much work and preparation went into it.
Like we're talking, you've got to start two weeks before
getting your ingredient list together a week before cooking. I
had a conversation with someone the other day. I can't
remember who it was, but she was telling me the
Christmases and the holidays that you remember are from when
(12:05):
you were a bit older. So it's not like you
don't remember seeing your mom, you know, stressed out, max
it out with her two toddlers, you know, hanging on
her ankles. Like, we don't remember that, but that did happen.
Our moms just were able to like take some time
(12:26):
to figure out how to master all this, and the
holidays that we actually remember that were truly magical are
once our moms had the practice to do it for
long enough and feel like they could manage it right well.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
And in my scenario, like I didn't have that mom,
and so we sometimes went to like a larger family
get together at an ant's house or something like that. Yeah,
but my mom wasn't the Martha Stewart, and she didn't
do those things necessarily, Like she loved gift giving and
she made Christmas Morning magical and things like that. But
(12:57):
there was a lot of things that I had kind
of wished for or wanted for in my childhood in
general and around the holidays and things I saw in
movies are in my friend's houses.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Was that some of the pressure you're trying to create this.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Absolutely absolutely So It's not like I had these traditions
handed down to me and this like this is how
you do it, or even a model of like what
that looks like. I didn't have it, And because I
wanted to make it magical, I went above and beyond.
And so rather than having this like average bar of
good enough, I had this like super high bar of
(13:30):
like I want to give my kids something that I
never had. And so I sort of entered that like
matriarch role. I feel like when I became an adult,
like before I even became a mom, and I enjoyed
like making parties special and I enjoyed like making it
pretty and cooking and having people over and all of that.
And it wasn't until I became a mom of multiple
(13:51):
kids that I was like, what the frig, Like this
is a lot of work, This is so much work.
Why the frig am I doing this to myself? Like
why am I doing all of it? And when I
had this epiphany of like wanting to change. It was like,
what I really want to give my kids that I
never had is a mom that is emotionally regulated and
(14:13):
present and not so stressed out that I'm disassociated staring
at the ceiling when they're opening a gift that I
worked really hard to give them, Like I would rather
them have less gifts and less traditions and less of
all the stupid crap that everyone says we need to
do and these like unrealistic expectations.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And more of a fun mom.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Yeah, I want to be a fun mom. I want
to be present and I like having fun with my kids.
And I just got to a point where I wasn't
fun with my kids or with myself. I like, I
want to enjoy this and I'm not.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I actually feel like I owe my mom a huge
apology because she was a working mom who did everything,
and so she was at the helm of so many
of our traditions. And my brother and my dad and
I would make fun of my mom because we're like
at every single holiday or event, she's yelling, she's stressed out,
(15:07):
and we would just barely get dressed and show up.
And it's not till I turn thirty two or thirty three.
Did I realize she's only stressed out because no one
is helping and.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Because she's doing it for you. Yes, yeah, that mixture
of like she's doing it for me and no one
else is doing anything, and the difference it can make
to have other people in the house participate and like
making the magic happen is huge.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
We have to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back with Libby Ward. And we're back with Libby Ward.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So you had your epiphany in twenty twenty one, marked
by tremendous grief. I had a different kind of epiphany
last year, but similar takeaway, just that like I cannot
continue to do the holidays a way that I'm doing it.
Last year truly traumatized me the holidays. Yeah, oh yeah,
I was traumatizing. My sons were three and two, and again,
(16:12):
it's everything that you just said. I just resonated with
everything that you just said, like putting this tremendous pressure
on myself to look good in front of the relatives
who are coming in town, to make it feel magical
for my kids, which just left me completely depleted. And
I turned to my fellow moms in a group chat
that we have and turns out everyone was going through
(16:34):
the exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It's just no one talks about it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Like my friend said this, She said, I just yelled
at everyone and said today I feel like I'm in
hell and I can't stand them all. Merry Christmas, right,
you know? And I told her, I said, I don't
think I'm doing this again next year. I think I'm
getting it all catered and I'm not hosting. She said,
I feel like it was the Christmas from Hell, ninety
percent chaotic, maybe ten percent enjoyable. One last thing, my
(16:58):
friend said to me, why does everyone else look like
they had a magical time on social media?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Like are they different or are they just they're gnaying
about it.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
They're not different.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't think they're different.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
No, they're not different. Well, okay, I think that some
people are different, like maybe they have larger support networks,
and maybe they are showing after their mom's house and
their mom's doing everything and they get to play with
the kids because the older generation is doing it. But
I think for the majority, it's the same for everyone.
And then there's this other piece of the emotional labor
of managing people that you're seeing around the holidays. That
(17:30):
you maybe don't see as often. They don't see each
other as often. There's drama, there's you know, this aunt
doesn't want to sit beside this ant, and this kid
doesn't get along with this kid, and your husband's doing X,
Y Z, and so you're not only doing all the
things and thinking about all the things and planning all
the things, but then you're having to manage people's moods
and behavior and is everyone okay? And as everyone feeling it,
(17:53):
and you're left with absolutely no energy, and it does.
It is like the Christmas from Hell.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
There's so much power in just talk talking about it
and realizing that we all have shared experiences. I remember
feeling less alone when I talked about it with my friends.
I feel less alone now when I'm talking about it
with you. I know that we want to talk about solutions.
How have you brought your husband into all this?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
We have been having conversations about how we share the
labor in our home since we got married fifteen years ago.
I became a mom ten years ago, and our conversations
have evolved over time, just like our needs and our
jobs and our circumstances have evolved over time. And one
of the things that people always ask me is like,
how do I have a conversation about the mental load
with my partner? How do I start this conversation? How
(18:38):
do I do this? And I think there's like this
idea that there's going to be one conversation where you're like,
I've been doing it all and I can't do it
anymore and I need help, and this is what the
mental load is, and here's the perfect words to explain it.
And he or she is going to be like, oh
my gosh, I didn't realize that's so terrible. I will
take exactly half of it now and everything is solved.
(19:00):
They we're all good. But the reality is that it
takes a lot of conversations and compassion and empathy and
understanding and just like constantly coming back to it and
working on that throughout the year and your partnership before
the holidays. But I would say that if you can
be like be having these conversations all the time and
(19:21):
get to a point where the things your husband or
your partner are doing are not considered help. If your
partner is cooking or cleaning or looking after your shared children,
they aren't helping you. They are their children as well,
and so the language we use is really important. And
so I would say, if someone's going into the holidays,
(19:41):
so you're like, I'm stressed the frig out, what do
I do? Sit down with your partner, talk about what
is important to you, what is something you actually really
want to do, what is important to them, So like
hearing each other's what are your expectations, what are your hopes,
and then deciding what is sustainable and reasonable and like
what are you going to do? And then how are
(20:02):
you going to split that up? So for me, gift
giving is a lot of work, but I also like it.
And so having a conversation with my husband to be like, hey,
I understand that I like gift giving, but also it
is work and it takes time. What are things that
you can do in the time that I am doing that,
(20:24):
whether it's like him taking more responsibility for the kids,
whether it's him hanging the lights on the house, like
different things like that, so that it's not always just
assumed that everything is my responsibility, even if it's a
value of mine.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
So we just interviewed an expert on boundaries, Nedra Tawab,
and she shared two terms with us. Poorest boundaries and
rigid boundaries, and I'm curious how you determine which boundaries
are right for you over the holidays, because you seem
to have more rigid boundaries, but the holidays are so
much about other people's knows and yeses. I'm curious how
(20:58):
you think about everyone's wants and needs while also thinking
about yourself more Now, it's a.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Really good question. I think that it depends on the boundary,
and it depends on the person. There's people in my
life that I need to have very rigid boundaries with
people that I say, this is what I'm able and
willing to do, kind of take it or leave it,
and if this boundary is crossed, then this is what's
going to happen. And I have to follow through on
that because of their personality type or the relationship or
something like that. And so I just communicate that clearly
(21:26):
and then I follow through with what I say I'm
going to do. There's other people in other scenarios where
they are more porous, and you know, they can be
a little bit more flexible, and you have to be
because it's a busy time and people are human and
people make mistakes and sometimes things take more work than
you thought they were going to take. And I think
it's a lot about being aware of yourself and your
(21:50):
needs and your capacity and then actually communicating those things.
And so now I just really try to practice this
self awareness. I guess of like what is that going
to take out of me? Like how much is that
going to take? Something we don't talk about is like
the labor of boundary setting, yeah, right, like the mental labor. Yeah,
(22:10):
the mental labor of it, like the energy that it expends.
And if you have healthy relationships in your life, saying hey,
I'm not going to be hosting Christmas dinner anymore and
cooking everything. We still would love to see you, but
we're actually gonna order in. You can have that conversation
with someone and they could be like, cool, that's great.
(22:31):
Like my you know, my brother and his wife are
like that's great. We joke that I'm like Libby two
point zero now, like I was Libby one point zero
and I was like a basket case every Christmas, and
they're like, we like Libby two point Oh. Libby two
point zero also then like forgets a lot of stuff
because she tries to be relaxed, and so we choke
that it's like a little maybe more chaotic, never like,
(22:51):
and I'm like, yeah, if you want me to be
more relaxed, you have to just deal with that. There's
going to be more chaos and maybe I'm not going
to have everyone's favorite drink, Like that's just going to
be how it is. And yet there's other people where
you could have that exact same conversation, Hey, we're going
to order in from now on, and like Grandma Bernadette
is like, well, you can't do that because we've done
this for this many years and this is what the
(23:13):
holidays look like and that's what this is. And so
that takes so much energy, and that is something that
you want to talk about with your partner as well, Like,
if you're going to set all these boundaries, why are
we the ones that have to stay to the mother
in law? This is not what we're going to do
this yere? Why can't they have that conversation? Yeah, And
like recognizing the work it takes to explain to everybody
(23:35):
else how much energy, recognizing the work it takes to
set boundaries with people and then sharing that work as well.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Some of our worst arguments as husband and wife have
been around boundary setting with family members.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's really it's really, really hard.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
And I think sometimes I don't want to put words
in your mouth, but sometimes like they don't see the
need to set the boundaries or say the hard thing
because they aren't the ones that are impact by it, right.
They maybe are like, oh, we don't want conflict, Like
we don't really need to say that. It's not really
a big deal. But at the end of the day,
who's the one that ends up doing the work and
ends up being burnt out?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, you are.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
When it comes to setting boundaries. Do you have any
specific examples of effective language that's really been helpful for you.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
I lean away from giving the full explanation of why,
so as opposed to specific language, I would just say
that I'm very conscious of being, Hey, this is what
we're going to do this year, and this is what
it's going to look like. I'm looking forward to seeing
you just wanted to set that expectation or we are
(24:41):
not going to be able to make it to that. Unfortunately,
I'm sorry, not hey, thanks for inviting me. I'm so sorry,
but I'm so overwhelmed right now because this person wants this,
and this person wants this, and I'm burnt out at
work and I'm going through this thing, and I have
this appointment, and that appointment like giving them the full
explanation of why, just saying no, sorry, we're unable to
(25:03):
make it. You don't need to tell them what else
you're doing, Like if you are laying down on the
couch at home eating bonbonds, that is busy. That is busy.
You don't need to fill every moment. You are not
free just because you don't have plans, like resting is
a plan.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Because you don't really want to open up the door
to unraveling the boundary, right, And I feel like sometimes
when we over communicate, that's what can happen.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Right well, and then people question your decisions more likely,
Oh well, if the reason you can't come is because
little Susie has a recital at six, we can just
have the dinner at eight. And then you're like, oh
my gosh, no, I just didn't want to go, So
you don't made point.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I never thought about that.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
All the reason less is more yes, no details, Yeah, sorry,
can't make it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
It's time for another quick break.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
We'll be right back, And we're back with Libby Ward
there's a book that I feel like anyone who is
listening to this conversation, who is feeling this and this
is resonating with you, I would highly recommend that you
read Pooja Lash means Real self Care. She talks about
(26:15):
exactly that, how to set boundaries, and what you mentioned
about being succinct but also authoritative is what she instructs
us to do. Another thing that she wrote and when
I read this, I exhaled, My shoulders loosened, my jaw loosened,
I was able to exhale, accept the identity of the
good enough mom.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Oh one hundred percent. I was talking about this morning
with a friend.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, and vocalize that in your inner dialogue, instead of
striving for perfection, instead of trying to be mini Mouse
around the holidays and create this magical environment, except that.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I'm the good enough mom. I'm not always going to
get it right, but I'm still good enough.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Absolutely. And also this piece of just because it feels
wrong doesn't mean it is wrong. And I have really
had to push through that discomfort of I am going
to say no because it is in alignment with what
I want to do, while fully accepting that my insides
are turning. And just because my insides are turning, it
doesn't mean I should change my decision exactly. Just because
(27:17):
I feel like viscerally ill I saying no, that doesn't
mean that I should be saying yes. So like working
through that discomfort, and like with anything, with any practice,
it gets better. I thought that I would always feel
like that, and the first few times I.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Was like, oh my god, what are they going to do?
Speaker 4 (27:35):
What are they going to say? And even if they
did guilt trip me, I would feel terrible. But then
you do it, and you do it again, and you
do it again, and then you realize like the world
is not going to end. And also, if someone is
throwing a fit because you're setting a boundary, that is
a very good sign that you required boundaries.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, that you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I love what you said about it just being a muscle,
because it can feel so foreign and uncomfortable, especially if
you're a covering people pleaser. But the more that we
practice honoring that internal compass of desire, the easier it's
going to get.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Okay, so your kids are eight and ten. There, I'm
wondering how you navigate having a conversation with them about
Santa's work versus your work, because you're really doing quite
a lot and no one is giving Libby credit. Everybody's
crediting Santa.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
The patriarch stends all the way to the north Pole.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Oh my goodness, we could do a whole podcast on
the North Pole Santa, and like missus classes that is
a representation of the entire patriarchy.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Someone should do a cartoon movie about that. Oh my goodness, Like,
let me do a short film. He gets all the credit.
He shows up one day and gets snacks the whole way.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Everyone's like, yeah, Santa, clap for him, and he just
gets snacks and he gets to like be the good guy,
and she's doing for me and managing all the elves. Wow,
it's unbelievable. And so I try to be really conscientious
of doing things with them around and explaining to them,
like how much work things are. It is a joy.
(29:11):
I love being able to do it. I love being
able to shower you with like love and gifts and
all the things. But it is work and it takes energy.
So this year my husband and I started doing fair
play more so. Evrovsky wrote a book called fair play,
which is all about like the division of labor and
how you share different tasks. And so we sort of
set the cards out at the beginning of the school
(29:33):
year last year and we're like, what are we gonna
how we're going to change things. And one of the
biggest changes is that my husband now does the admin
for our family. So he's signing the kids up for sports,
he's signing their agendas each night, like he's doing the
communication back and forth with the school. It is just
as amazing as it sounds like. It's a lot of work,
so great, Like I'm just like the dad now, Like
(29:55):
I show up to soccer practice, I'm like, my husband
told me it's this field. Like it's like a joke
that I'm just like the mom that's like out of
touch with what's happening, and it's exceptional.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I just love you going into that soccer field and
like breaking down stereotypes, Like I just love that.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
It's just like and now the moms will be like
they'll ask me something and they'll be like, oh wait,
never mind, will ask Greg And I'm like, good you
you go ask, can't ask. That is how it's gonna be.
But what's cool is my kids. Well, like let's say
they're packing their agenda to go to school in the morning,
They'll be like, oh, Dad, forgot to sign my agenda,
And it just shows that they see that it's not
(30:33):
just my job. And so it's like the same with
the holidays. What's dad's job, what's mom's job, what's your job? Kids?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Okay, I need to know what are you both excited
for this holiday season.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I feel conflicted about this whole conversation because I know
that it can sound very heavy or like you can
hear the frustration as we're talking about it. But at
the same time, like nobody loves the holidays more than
this girl.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I love the holidays.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
I know same.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I I start watching Christmas movies in like the next
two weeks and I'll be watching them through January.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I just need to, honestly, I need to honor myself.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I need to like put my money where my mouth
is and start doing the things that I've said I'm
gonna do. So I think when I think about, like,
what are the things that are going to allow me
to enjoy the holidays? Setting a two gift limit this
is something that my friends have talked about, like setting
a two gift limit for your kids, talked about like
ordering food, talked about even like setting responsibilities and roles
(31:32):
for family members. I'm looking forward to the holidays. I
just need to need to do it right and like
honor my needs.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I love that I'm looking forward to food. I love
food so much. Yeah, And I am becoming more okay
with like not being in charge of all the food. Right, So,
whether it's catering or ordering in or being like, hey,
it's Pollock style, everyone brings something, yeah, and being clear
about what I want, Like I know in the past
my sister in law's been like, what do you want
me to bring? And I'd be like whatever, And now
(32:00):
I'm like, can you please bring your pe cheese and
potato castrole, like I desperately need that and an apple pie? Right,
Like I like just being clear about those things. I yeah,
like food and people. It's like I want to be
with my people. And so I am going to the
holidays with like a less is more yes attitude of Okay,
maybe we're not going to do the breakfast with Santa,
(32:22):
and we're not going to do like the cutting down
the tree together, and we're not going to do this.
But the things we are going to do, let's do
them really well, and like, let's enjoy it and let's
be present and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
How about you, Daniel, Well, I have two things. One
is my grandmother's mots ball soup. I crave it all
the time, and no DELI can ever make it the
way my grandma makes it.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
But I want a grandma like your grandma more than
you know.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Libby, you were invited any holiday, am I, Oh my god,
with your kids. She has an open door policy.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
We're coming.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
She has extra seats sometimes that she just leaves open
in case anyone wants to come. So sweet, So you're
so welcome. Otherwise I can try and freeze it and
send it to you. I'm doing something this year. I
realized that as I've gotten busier and busier in life,
I am so me centric right now in my life,
and I am the happiest when I'm like you centric.
(33:19):
And so I convinced my parents and my brother that
we're all going to be of service this holiday season
instead of getting any gifts. And I think it's going
to feel really nice.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
It is.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I haven't even mentioned this, but like five years ago.
One thing my family did so the adults rather than
buying gifts for each other or even doing a secret Sanna, Yeah,
we do an experience.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So we're all.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Going to go to the theater together, or we're all
going to do an event together or in activity and
you remember and then you actually get to be with
one another and it's less work.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And less money.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I'm thinking, I don't need more things at this in
my life. I don't want more possessions. I say the
time and the memories are more important. Libya, I wanted
to ask you about grief during the holidays. I'm thinking
of all my friends who've also lost parents or people
are really important to them. What are the things that
you do to take care of yourself from a grief perspective.
(34:19):
Are there any rituals that you have that help you
honor those family members who are no longer with us
During the holidays, I'm.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
A sad person during the holidays. I feel all the feelings.
I mean, I'm a deep feeler anyway, but the holidays
highlights both for me, right Like, I feel the good
feelings really good, and I feel the hard feelings. And
so I know you're referencing family members who aren't with us,
and that is a huge grief, you know, I don't
have my dad anymore. But there's also a grief that
(34:47):
a lot of people feel myself included around maybe their
family in general, like maybe it not looking like what
they thought it was going to look like, or maybe
some toxicity in their family, or you know, some estrangement
and their family with like parents or siblings and things
like that. And so I can grieve a lot of
different things during the holidays, and I think that's a
(35:08):
common thread for a lot of people, whether they have
a similar scenario to me or not. And what I
try to do is get ahead of the game. I
try to build in moments with people who I know
are going to like fill my heart. So one practical
thing I do is I stay off of social media
as much as I can, especially on like Christmas Day,
(35:31):
like on the days where I know everyone's going to
be posting with their families, like I won't even look
because I know it'll just like tear my heart out.
My journal, so I'm like writing down the things I
am grateful for, whether it's the traditions that I'm cultivating
or memories that we're making or things that I enjoy,
and so I just try to like build things in
(35:52):
that help me to focus on the good that I
do have in my life and honor the really hard things.
With my dad, for example, when I was cleaning out
his apartment after he died, you know, like there's so
much stuff, and I'm like, I can't keep all this stuff,
Like I don't really know what to do. But I
was really intentional about a few of the things that
I kept, and they were like dishes in the kitchen.
There's like a particular I think it was a milk
(36:15):
jug and it's got this like nineteen seventies pattern on it,
and so that has become like our gravy boat, and
I bring that out during the holidays. It's like a
really specific thing. Like it almost like feels like he's
like at the table with us a little bit. Yeah,
And so we can sometimes either just get stuck in
the hard and like focusing on the hard or just
try to stay so busy we don't think about it.
(36:36):
Not feeling the hard things doesn't make them not come.
Taking time to actually honor that, like to honor the
difficult feelings while also then like looking to the good
and knowing that two things can be true at the
same time.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
That's very powerful. Libby, Thank you so much for coming
on the right side.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Thank you for having me. This is such a good
conversation I could to just go on and on.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Thanks for joining us today, Libby.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Libby Ward is a digital creator, speaker, and mental health advocate.
You can find her on Instagram at Diary of an
Honest Mom.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with
comedian and content creator Rachel Samples.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at Simone Voice and at
danielle Robe.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Host
Simone Boyce
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.