September 24, 2021 • 47 mins
Carlos talks to American actor Corey Stoll about how he first got into acting, what his favorite role has been and his new film “The Many Saints of Newark”.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cory Soul grew up in New York and began his
acting career on the theater stage. Fast forward, he can
now be seen in some of the biggest hit TV
series in films like House of Cards on Netflix, The
Strain on Ethics, and Marvel Comics film at Man. On
this episode of The Carlos Watson Show podcast, Cory still
reflects on how he first got involved in acting, what
(00:22):
his favorite role has been, and his new film, The
Many Saints of Newark. Hey, Corey, Hey, here's it going good?
How you doing? I'm good? Who's that photo of behind you?
That's Smiles Davis? Oh? Is that right? Yeah? Oh you
(00:42):
know what? Am I blind? Or is it hard to see?
Maybe I'm blind? It's pretty far away, is it okay? Okay?
And it's out of you know, And I used to
that context or seeing in boxing. Well, that's why I
was gonna say. That's why I was asking him I blind,
because I was like, am I just not seeing it correctly?
Because it looks like a boxer he has there, But
that's Miles Davis interesting in a boxing pose working out
(01:05):
at Gleason's gym. Yeah, do you do you box? Are you?
I've I've done some. It's it's been frustrating. I was
really getting into uh kravmagaw that's like the Israeli martial
arts for a couple of years leading up to the pandemic,
and then obviously wasn't doing it really during the pandemic.
(01:26):
I need to get back into it. It's cathartic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What else do you do? Are you a runner? Are
you a what? What? What? What? What released do you get?
You know, I'm I'm a swimmer and a walker and
uh and I liked and I lift weight. That that
was That's really been the the sort of mental health
(01:46):
UM savior during the pandemic. Yeah. Did you stay in
New York the whole time? Or what did you do? Yeah? Yeah,
almost all the time. We had a couple of little
trips in the summer, but um, but yeah, mostly mostly here. Well, wow,
I was in New York. I live in the Bay Are.
I live in California. But I've been out to New
York now two or three times, and it feels like
(02:08):
New York is gonna wake it up again and is
out and about. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I mean it's you know,
and and you know it looked like we were almost there,
just like you know, like tonight I'm going to the
opening of the Shakespeare in the Park, which I'm so
excited about. But there's even like a little bit of
(02:29):
that sort of like joy of like we're back, is
is undercut a little bit because you know, we're not
entirely safe? Yeah, yeah, does your does your little fella
realize what's going on? Or is he too young? Or
where where is he in his recognition of you know,
this time we've been in you know, he I think
I think we did a good job letting him know
(02:50):
that it's serious. We need to take precautions, but we're
gonna be fine, you know, and and as long as
we take these ouestions will be fine. And so he's been,
he's been really cool. He's actually had a shockingly happy year. Um,
you know, it's it's amazing. It's like kids are so
(03:12):
resilient on the big things often and then it's like
some random comment that you've give them that I'm sure
he'll be telling a therapist in twenty years now. Now,
what kind of dad are you? Are you the lenient dead,
are you the tough dead? Are you the kind of
dad are you. Well, it's all in context, right, so
(03:32):
you know, you know, you know, the parents play the role,
so I am definitely the more of the rule maker
and rule keeper. Um. But it's it's it's it's within
it's within limits. I'm not I'm not the great Santini. Okay, okay, Yeah,
it's uh, there's so many interesting dances and as you know,
(03:55):
last year has been such an interesting time for lots
of people and lots of parents especially. You have more
time with the kids where the families are together in
kind of different ways. So it's, uh, it's interesting in
that regard. Corey, Where did you grow up? Are you
a native New Yorker? Where was home originally? Yeah? I
grew up in the Upper West Side of Manhattan. And
(04:16):
what was that light back then? Was it was the
Upper west Side the Upper West Side of today? Or
was there was there a kind of a different field
to it at the time. It was it was not
nearly as um. It was hard to it was it
was hard to find a good restaurant, you know, it
was it was, it was. It was definitely much more
(04:36):
rough around the edges and and um and and the
dividing lines. I mean it's you know, you know, I
remember my grandfather talking about Central Park West when he
was growing up. He grew up in Manhattan too, and
the elevated uh subway, I forget it either went up
Columbus or Amsterdam, and he was like, that was the
(04:58):
other side of the tracks, you know, that there was
you know, these these these tony apartments, you know, along
Central Park West, and then you pass Amsterdam and you're
really you're really in in in a dangerous area and
that that is really you know, that's that's not like
that anymore at all. And we're your folks artists were
(05:20):
the actors as well, or you're you're you're breaking ground. Yeah. Yeah,
my my dad was a teacher, and then he uh
founded this uh this high school, this public high school
that's been really successful, the beak In High School in
New York. Um and which is really like nontraditional uh
(05:41):
school where they don't have grades and sort of portfolio
based um. And and my mom was a lawyer. Um
And they're both very recently retired. But but yeah, the
the like like the arts in my family, there were
like kind a couple of grandmothers who uh like a
had a grandmother who was a sculptor and uh uh,
(06:05):
well my other grandmother was just a a lover of
the art. But no, it was not a very artistic
family and definitely stick out in that sense. And and
did you get to it early? Like were you a
kid at eight nine and ten, if Corey and Carlos
has been buddies, would you have told me you know,
I'm going to be an actor one day or or
what were we talking about when you were eight nine
(06:26):
in ten? Uh No, In fact, I it was it
was like a very clear moment we were doing. It
was this program and I was in fifth grade. The
Metropolitan Opera did this amazing program. We did go into
elementary schools and so do these brainstorming sessions with kids
and break them up into the you're the writers, you're
(06:48):
the set designers, you're the actors. And I really wanted
to be a stage manager. For some reason, they had,
like I think they I think they had trouble getting
kids to be stage managers, and so they thinking this
is the job you want, was like totally. And that
was like and you know how to teacher, like you
should be an actor because you saw something that I
(07:09):
didn't see and I was like, no, there's you know,
there's just show offs. That's not me. I'm more down
to earth than that. And then we did this very
brief little improvisation where it was, you know, the whole
class got into a circle and they would like throw
scenario at you and they said, you know, you're somebody
(07:31):
dying of thirst in the desert. And I just hammed
up the biggest death with all these sort of false
deaths and got these huge laughs. And from from then on,
I've gotten that little shout a dopamine that I've been
chasing ever since. Did does that teacher know that you
went on to become and like if you stayed in
touch with that teacher in any way, I'm not not.
(07:55):
I mean maybe a couple of times I've seen her,
um uh yeah, uh yeah. And then and then I
had a teacher right after that in junior high school.
Um and Retrey who just passed away, um uh who
really sort of you know, the high schools in New York,
(08:16):
they have the the like Stuyveston and Brock Science, the
schools you test into, and then LaGuardia, the former's high school.
And she had somehow figured out the formula of getting
kids into LaGuardia. You do these monologues and she, um,
yeah she and retree she really she really steered the
(08:41):
course of my life in in a completely different direction.
And and and and at LaGuardia, will you ever overwhelmed?
Were you ever like, oh my god? There are all
these talented kids, because LaGuardia, if I remember correct, is
maybe even Miles went there. I can't remember where that
he went there, but but but I feel like Jennifer
Aniston went there, and you know, a whole suite of
interesting actors. I'm sure I'm not even remembering the folks
(09:04):
I should be mentioning now, but but they've got a
thick history, not not a thin history when it comes
to Yeah, and and even you know, like very recently
like Timothy shallow May and zay Z Beats and uh
ansel Elger. This is like it's uh yeah, it's a
really great school. And I think it's actually gotten better
since I was there. Um No, I didn't. I was
(09:29):
actually the first couple of years was really frustrating because
I think the influence of that teacher and Tree when
it was in junior high school made me realize that
acting was a discipline and was a craft, and it
wasn't just about using your charisma, you know. Um, and
I think that's very strange for somebody at fourteen to
(09:51):
really understand that and embrace that. And so it's you know,
they have this class of over a hundred kids every year,
and I don't know if there's that any kids in
the city who really understand what's required of them, and
you know, super talented kids. But um, so there was
like a handful of us that were like super like
(10:11):
drama nerds who just wanted to work really hard to
do this. And then there were like a bunch of
kids who who you know, they didn't they were talented,
but didn't quite realize it's actually really hard work. Um.
And then as and then by the time I was
like a junior and senior, kids started to sort of,
I think get it. But I was ridiculously selfishort like
(10:35):
way beyond what I had any right to be. I
remember very clearly in my freshman year one of my
classmates saying, so, do you want to be an actor?
And I'm saying, I am an actor. Um, you know,
I don't need somebody to give me a paychecker to
call me an actor. You know, if I say I'm
an actor, I'm an actor, and um, it was incredibly
(11:00):
I'm notxious, but I think it's I think it's served
me well because I think there's a certain amount of
sort of blind self assurance or you know, willing, you know,
disregard of the risks that is necessary to be successful.
Who were your bright lights at the time, Like when
you thought about the actors who you admire, you liked,
(11:22):
or who you were going to try and pattern some
version of your career off of, like who is you know,
who was in front of you? Who were you thinking about? Um? Well,
it was sort of on two different tracks. You know.
There were the movie stars and Gene Hackman was always
a real hero of mine. Um, and of course, you know,
(11:45):
like Pacino and de Niro and you know, all the
kind of the great actors that like guys really like UM.
But I remember really clearly my grandmother took me to
the original progression of Fences and I remember seeing uh
Courtney of Evans, who was at the time, you know,
(12:05):
it's very early twenties. It was a really young guy
and it was and him going head to head with
James Earl Jones and holding his own that he's playing
a character named Corey. So that sort of helped with
the identification. Um, but it was it was revelatory to
me to see that that in the theater experience is
(12:30):
is an incredible asset. But there is a certain sort
of um equalizing thing about it, and that it's if
everybody brings their full self to a great role at
the right time, you can you can have somebody as
powerful and legendary is James Earl Jones going up against
(12:53):
a kid. And that was that really stuck with me.
Who else now that you have been in the game
and and and bring a certain level of experience and
knowledge to it, who now is on your amount rushmore
like when you you know what I mean, when you
think about who's got the goods defined? However Corey wants
(13:16):
to define it, you know, who's on Mount Stole more
like who's working now or in the past. But but
but but like you know it in a way that
that fifteen year old kid, I love it, who said
I'm an actor? Yeah, but you know it almost a
little differently today And so maybe the same people are
(13:36):
on Mount Stole more or maybe different people are on
Mount stoll Moore. But who's who, Who's who's up there? Now?
I mean, you know, I mean there's there's there, there's
so many, so many great actors and and um god,
you know it's funny. It's I think more and more
as I as I work and I work with people
(14:00):
and they become peers or you know, real people and
not just stars. It it makes it a little bit
harder to see the performance. And I think sometimes seeing
foreign language films, I can appreciate the work in a
(14:22):
way that I sometimes can't in u Ah, in my
relative language. And you know, I just saw I mean,
even though he's a big star here Matts Michelson. Um
another round. Did you see that movie? I haven't seen that. Yeah,
it's great, and it's just he's just he's just incredible.
(14:43):
And then he's just he he understands the camera and
the camera loves him in this way. Uh, and he's
calib you know. It's a performance that's he's supposed to
be all these different kinds of drunk, you know, and
which is famously the hardest thing to play when you're
(15:04):
an actor, to play drunk, because it's just there's just
so many pitfalls. Um, but he's drunk almost the entire movie.
But but you know he has to calibrate it. So
I've had two glasses of wine, and I've had a
bottle of wine. I've had half a bottle of vodka,
and it's like it's it's brilliant. Wow. I love that,
and I love the challenge of that is as you
(15:24):
describe that, I've always admired people when I've seen them
do those kind of one person plays and and the
fact that someone could own that all the way through.
I think I saw Laurence Fishburn years ago, Um do that.
And you know, again, there's maybe you take it for
granted because you've done it so often, but you're an
(15:45):
other actor's ability to memorize lines, and not just to
memorize lines, but to be in the moment and to
inhabit the whole thing and tell me that whole story,
and that at least for me to make it seem flaw. Um.
You know, it's funny. It's like I think, I think
actors have such a love hate relationship with when people say,
(16:07):
how do you memorize all those lines? Because you know,
you're just like, I'm just I've done some other things too.
The memorizing was just sort of sort of work. Uh,
you know if that's all you got from it, but um,
but yet you do want some acknowledgement that that was
a lot of worth memorize all those lines. But I
think I personally like I've done I've done some things
(16:28):
some one person things or things worth really long monologues.
And I actually really and right now doing the show
Billions where I have these, you know, these really long speeches,
and it's it's a it's a daily thing or memorizing stuff. Um,
it's actually as somebody who is not a not self
(16:53):
taught or sort of an instinctual actor, you know, somebody
who who who is over educated as an actor, It's
it's actually helpful because it's like work. I could get
to sort of like pretend I'm doing something. I'm working,
you know, I have to do it. But like there's
been a few times where I've worked with at like
(17:13):
Charlie Starren is somebody who I really was one of
the most intimidating people have worked with, even though she's
it was incredibly generous and nice, but I just I
couldn't tell how she was doing what she was doing.
You know, it was just it was in a It
wasn't There was no technique that I could say, um,
(17:35):
whereas you know, working with other actors who have incredible skill,
it's it's impressive and exciting, but I have a I
can sort of understand what they're doing. I have a
context for it. How do you think she was doing
what she was doing? That is interesting when you when
you say it that way. How do you think she
was doing what she was doing? I mean, I think
(17:57):
she on a very basic level she was doing she
just playing thankful, I mean, which is what we're which
is what we're all doing. Um. But maybe they're there
were a fewer steps in between, and maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe she has a you know this incredibly complex uh
uh technique. Um. But it was invisible from the outside.
(18:21):
You know. She would go from reading through the script
to dropped in totally emotionally connected and riveting. I've never
met her before, but I've seen her talk about growing
up a little bit and a very uh tumultuous upbringing.
(18:42):
And I was in a very bad car accident when
I was a kid. They thought I was never gonna
walk again, and as a result, whenever I hear someone
talk about something painful, I can drop in right away
and I can almost feel it. And sometimes if it's
a little too clear, I can almost physically feel that
because I can still feel being on the side of
the road, and I can still feel you know, uh,
(19:05):
you know, stuff not being in a good space and place.
And I wonder whether having maybe I'm just projecting and
making up now. But but but it's interesting cause I
hear you say that, as I think about the conversations
I've seen or have, I wonder whether there is some
extra access um to a whole set of experiences. It
maybe allows her to drop in sooner or or more
(19:28):
quickly because she wanted to leave where she was. Yeah,
I mean, I think, I mean the truth is that everybody,
everybody has trauma in their life on some level. You
know what I mean that we're it's sort of you
you're I think your psyche expands to fill whatever container
it's in. And so if you live a life of
(19:50):
incredible violence and poverty. Um, you know, as we were
saying before, with like how kids are managing to uh
to handle this pandemic and all the you know, weird
things with the mask and everything. Um or if you
have a privileged life, there's still these minor traumas that happen,
(20:13):
and I think your psyche can't at a certain point,
I think you're psychic, can't really tell the difference. And
that's why art works. That's why these representations of life
that people act work because there is a universality you
know what you know, but it takes somebody really sharing
(20:36):
their specific life experiences to reach across in that way.
(21:00):
Corey was about your favorite role of all time. I
realized that I've I've enjoyed you in so many different
places and spaces, from House of Cards to Billions to
two move These to other things. But what have you
enjoyed like what moved you? Um? I did Macbeth two
(21:22):
falls ago, um with my wife actually playing Lady Macbeth um.
And it was in this very small theater, super pared
down production. You know, hardly any furniture, just a few
actors on stage and that character. I've never had that
(21:44):
experience of feeling this entire life on stage, you know,
starting starting off as this victorious warrior um getting this
sort of call to action by the by and spooked
(22:05):
by the by the witches. You see this, you see
a glimpse into this incredibly complex and difficult but loving marriage.
You see the crime that he commits, and then the
descent into madness and then a sort of a brief
(22:29):
enlightenment and sort of understanding of what life is at
the end um And to be able to be able
to play that every single night, um was was like
if everybody would say, well, you're playing Macbeth, is it
really and you're playing it with your wife? Is it
(22:49):
just like torturous? So you guys, you know, stick of
each other when you get home or you're at each
other's throats. And it was the exact opposite. It felt
like this exorcism every night or just went through It
felt like I was going through every possible human emotion
and every night and I could just sort of wash
(23:10):
that off with the blood at the at the end
of the night and go home happy. Yeah. I h
I love that. If you had a dream scenario going forward,
and if there was one role for you that somebody
was going to perfectly bring uh to Mr Soul's doorstep,
what what what? What would they bring you? You know?
(23:31):
That's that's what's really one of the hardest questions to answer.
I get that. I think every act to get that
question a lot. And part of it is strange because
you just in the times where I've had sort of
dream roles. You know when I when I got to
play Hemingway, Um. You know when I when I played
(23:52):
Peter Russo in Her House of Cards. Other roles that
have been so fulfilling. I could not have predicted it.
It wasn't until I got the role and was doing
it that it was like, this is just self fulfilling
and is a good fit. Um. So that's that's the
non answer. And then I would say along the lines
of what I said with Macbeth, I think, you know,
(24:14):
I'm getting a little old for it, but I think Hamlet, um,
although I think I think, uh, there's somebody who's playing
it was like two um, Ian McAllen. Ian McCallen is
playing Hamlet right now, So I guess I'm not too old, yea. Um.
(24:35):
But you know again that the the encyclopedic nature of
of the role is really appealing to me. That over
the course of you know, in Hamlet's like four hours long,
over the course of that night you go through you
have to re least the opportunity to go through every
possible color, every possible emotion, and and and I think
(24:57):
that's the key to what's fighting and fun and fulfiling
about about being a performers. The variety is that you
get to live these other lives. You know. It's interesting
that you mentioned ian and at two and I wonder
whether there's something that's even more valuable and juicy about
getting to be an actor at that age that the
(25:19):
chance to inhabit new spaces and places, to remain vibrant,
to get that dopamine that you talked about, to challenge
yourself with the opportunity to memorize or go into different places.
I wonder if there if there's a world in which, uh,
you know, like some good wine, actually acting becomes more
(25:40):
enjoyable as you as you get into a certain certain
era of life. Absolutely absolutely, And that that's you know,
I think, I think acting does give you the opportunity
two two to fight time. Oh you know that that
(26:03):
time warps in a really interesting way within certainly during
a play and then even just between action and cut
when you're when you're filming it. It it extends and
deepens that time like like any sort of meditation does
anytime when you're really focusing and living fully in the moment,
(26:24):
it it extends that time. And I think you know,
one thing, that's one thing that's difficult about acting often
if you're not on a long running TV show, is
you're pretty much your mercenary and you're going from gig
to gig, and that can be stressful. But it's an
(26:44):
incredible um gift two be able to divide your life
into these experiences right now. For a few months, I
played this murderer, and then for a year I played
this lover, and then you know, for two weeks I
(27:05):
played the smartest man in the world. And you know, um,
you know that was actually one of the one of
the things that was actually really drove me crazy about
the pandemic was I had been spoiled with being busy
and being able to say, oh yeah, those three months
of my life that's where I was playing that role,
(27:26):
and I suddenly I was adrift from that sort of
way of marking time. How did you end up using
the time? Were you sedentary, were restless? Were you pacing
back and forth? Were you writing? How did you end
up using the time? Sort of all of that, I
did a lot of writing. None of it I would
ever showed anybody. Um, but I actually wrote more than
(27:49):
I had ever I'd actually got into a daily writing
uh process which is continued, which has been one of
the greatest gifts from from this time period. And I
and I really focused on my time with my son. Um.
My wife was actually much more busy uh and needed
her space because she was she was writing a project
(28:10):
that was that that she's continuing to do that's um
much more so of fully formed and UM. I was like, Okay, well,
I'm this is this is that this is valuable time
with my son, and so that that that's really been
the silver lining. Um, because now that I'm working a lot,
(28:33):
I'm pining for that for that time with my son. Yeah.
Probably it'll be interesting as he grows up his whether
he remembers this time as much. And it probably there's
a particularly interesting window if I remember, right, he's is
he four or five? Six? Is he somewhere? Yeah, he'll
be six in October. Yeah. Yeah, So I bet you
(28:57):
that there's probably some extra goodness that you got this
time with him, that that it will it will stay
with him. Yeah, I think so. I think we we
were really I mean, everybody suffered through this pandemic in
their own way, um, you know, and you know, and
definitely having a small child is it was exhausting, uh
you know when you're confined at home. But it was
(29:19):
also um, it was a blessing that he's of an
age where he wants to hang out with me all
the time. He's not a teenager who just wants to
get get you know. And and it was and just
every single day we laughed hysterically. There was something that
he did that made us laugh hysterically. And that that
(29:43):
a real gift. That is a that is a that's
a beautiful thing. Hey, how did you decide to do
this film? The Many Saints of New York was? Uh
did they bring you to it? Did you? Did you
come to it? How did how did you end up
getting involved? Uh? Yeah, it came to me as an offer. Um,
I certainly would have would have fought for it. Um,
(30:07):
you know, I was I was a big fan of
the show. Uh you know. I I watched it when
I was when I was first on and then actually
when my wife was pregnant over that summer, we she
had never seen it so we watched the whole thing
through again. UM, and then of course when I was cast,
(30:28):
I watched it again. So I don't recommend really binging
that show. I think it's something that you need a
little break from, like watching more than two episodes a night. Yeah,
it's so stressful. It's just it's it's just it's the
the the identification that you have with these characters who
are so reprehensible and UM lived such a stressful life.
(30:53):
It's just it's just too much. But UM, did you
know Gambelfeenie did you did you as he was doing
to Brontos? Did you know? No? You know? I I
you know, I got out of grad school and two
thousands three. So it was just like as the show
was UM was winding down. I never even got an
(31:17):
audition for it, which I always sort of regretted. I
really was like, I's got to get on that show, um,
and so two to be able to be a part
of it and to be you know, part of the family. Ah,
it was. It was really cool. Have you ever had
any friends involved in the organized crime in one way
or another? Um, you know, there was it was one
(31:43):
or two that I had some suspicions, you know that.
But yeah, yeah, it's I grew up in Miami at
a time in which, uh, you know, we were in
transition as a city and uh and so lots of
lots of unusual characters. And I could envision New York
(32:03):
being a place that uh and obviously New Work being
a place that you know, had lots of people involved
in in different ways. Um. Do you think we need
a show like The Sopranos again? Um? In any way?
Or was that what it was for its time? And
we've got a whole new set of of TV series
(32:25):
in this golden age of television? You know, do we
need anything? I think we need. We need good writing,
and we need you know, we need David Chase writing.
And if that's what he's gonna write, then let's watch it.
I mean, um, I I think I think it's really
(32:48):
it's I'm glad that it's going this way and not
a continuation of the story because obviously that that story
ended so brilliantly and um, with such resonance that did
then continue the story, I feel would be would really
rob that's brilliant last episode of so much power. Um.
(33:11):
But I think I think this show that this movie
it has He's having a conversation with the series in
a way that um, that deepens it and um, you
know I think and honors it. I think, yeah, yeah, yeah,
what a uh, what an interesting time. All those shows,
(33:32):
all of those gangster shows of one way or another.
I'm also a fan of Peaky Blinders if you ever
watched that, which is a different version of that conversation,
but also a a good and a good and valuable one. Corey,
when you look back at your career, we talk a
lot on the show about dreaming fearlessly and how people
(33:52):
breakthrough or not. Why do you think you've had as
much success as you've had? And and I asked that,
and Lee and I asked it, Given that you've had
the advantage of actually been the one who lived that
life and actually seen you know, what worked and what didn't,
why do you think you've been as busy as thoroughly
busy with as many interesting projects as you've had. Well, I,
(34:15):
you know, I think luck is is an undeniable part
of it, you know, not you know luck starting with um,
having a family that supported me, supported me, you know,
going you know, going to college and grad school and um,
(34:39):
you know, having that, having that that space two not
have to um, not have to wait tables. I did
some waiting tables, but like I pretty quickly started working
and I was so that was an incredible amount of luck.
I mean, it's a hard question two to answer one self.
(35:03):
I mean, I I think I you know, as I
said before, I had this weird unearned confidence, uh, starting
when I was like fourteen, that's you know. And and
even though it was unearned and maybe a little brady
(35:25):
and uh, it served me well because I think there
is a certain amount of sort of willful um blindness
that you need. You need to you need to visualize
yourself where you're trying to go and and and I
(35:49):
believe that you deserve to be there. I think I
think that is a huge part where the times of
my life where I feel like I have sabotaged myself,
it's um, I think the root of that is often
that you feel like you don't yeah, that you don't
deserve it. Um. Also just I mean, like I also
(36:13):
just an incredibly lucky when I came when I started working,
I mean, just to be able to be a bald
guy and not play a you know, a biker or
you know, uh, you know, prisoner. You know, it was
(36:37):
until until pretty recently it was a pretty niche look um,
and the idea of somebody looking like me playing a
lawyer or a doctor, just a regular guy, um, wouldn't
have happened. And so I think that was that was
that was actually quite a quite a bit of luck
for me. That is so interesting that you say that,
(36:59):
you know, Malcolm glad Well rights and outliers about Steve
Jobs and Bill Gates being born in fifth and basically says,
if they've been born a couple of years earlier, a
couple of years later, someone else would have been Bill
Gates and Steve Jobs, meaning that there was a particular
confluence of need and events and opportunity that may have
facilitated some of that. And you know, maybe he's right,
(37:21):
maybe he's wrong, but that is that's such an interesting
thought about you know, would would you be as welcome
into that space if you were you know, uh, Qurey
ten years older. Um, it's interesting, you know, and if
I had, and I think there's you know, there there
(37:44):
was a moment as I was starting my career where
there were multiple people in my life where like you
need to get hair plugs. You need to like, if
you want to work like, you need to do this.
You need to make this change. And I'm not going
sure what it was about me that resisted it, um,
but I'm really glad I did because I think the
(38:06):
those people in the industry that that saw something in
me that wanted to hire me. I think part of
that was this sense of being comfortable in my own
skin and trying to chase a um uh, sort of
a conventional handsomeness or masculinity um was in itself, you know, counttractive,
(38:37):
that that that that that need to be needed. Um.
And I rejected that. Well, I see you going back
to that fourteen year old, or at least I go
back to that fourteen year old and his unreasonable confidence
and uh and and how that may have powered you through,
how that may have you know, provide it almost like
(39:00):
a like a safe shield that is, you know, may
have taken you. Yeah. And it's weird because it's not.
I don't want to give the impression that I am
the supremely confident person. You know. I I often play
you know, I've played a few supremely confident people. But
that's not that's not who I am. But for some reason,
(39:21):
in a few key things, I just didn't I just
didn't care enough to be to want to change myself. Corey.
When I when I appreciate your work, when I appreciate
Katherine Keener's work. Um, sometimes I see actors, incredible actors
who have had so many good, interesting roles, but may
(39:43):
not yet be household names. How do you think about that?
How do you experience that? Um? You know, Uh, I
I just did a project that's top seker. I can't
talk about it, but it was it was a thing
where um, it's all performance capture stuff, you know that
(40:07):
sort of came with the doughts on your face. And
it was so pleasurable to do because it was finally,
this this way where I can do my craft and
I can express myself in all these great ways that
(40:28):
aren't the way that I can express myself in polite society. Um.
And I'm using I'm using my voice, I'm using my
instrument of my face. But it's not me and I
can it's and there's that that mask and that separation,
(40:50):
and um, I felt so free and so I look,
you know, if somebody stops down the Street says you,
I really love your work. Thank you. That that means
a lot to me. But a random person saying hey,
you're famous, sort of uh, how can I get a
(41:11):
selfie with you? Is that is? That is not pleasurable
for me? That is really a panic? Um, And so
you know, I think, I yeah, I I enjoy the work.
I enjoy working with people I respect, and I get
(41:34):
incredible pleasure out of people who I respect respecting my work. Um.
But the but I'm the fame stuff is ah, certainly,
I think it's pretty overrated. Um, you know. And that's
speaking from somebody who's sometimes kind of famous depending on
(41:55):
where I am. But I definitely like I hated wearing
asks all all year, but it was sort of nice
to be able to return to a sense of anonymity.
I want to see that project. What's it going to
come out? I'm not sure it's whole. Hey, you mind
(42:31):
if I close us with a little something I call
rapid Fire? All right? What's your karaoke song? Ring of Fire? Oh? Outstanding?
Love that love that, love that. If but if you
weren't an actor, what else would you be doing? I'll
see that's the problem. That's why I'm an actor, what
would I be doing? Uh, I'd be teaching I think,
(42:54):
I think. I don't know if I said cheating to
say that I'd be teaching acting. But yeah, no, that's good.
I'll say that your favorite movie of all time? Doctor Strange.
Love so interesting. Most interesting thing you've learned about parenting. Um,
it's a cliche, but the this new level of love
(43:16):
that you're capable of, that nothing in your life before
that really prepares you for seeing that in yourself. Best
decision you've ever made. Uh uh well, I mean the
best decision I ever made was it was it was
happening at sort of at the same time, but getting
(43:37):
married and having my son, luckiest thing to ever happened
to you, the best piece of luck you've ever had, um,
Woody Allen coming to see a play that I was in.
Then Cash Rane, if you were whispering to your younger
self whatever you wanted to whisper, but you were able
(43:58):
to go back in time, what is the one thing
you'd whispered to eighteen year old Corey? What would you
whisper to him? You have about a minute with him,
What are you going to tell him? Oh? I have
a long time, alright, that it was just one okay, Uh,
you know, I actually think I could say it pretty concisely.
I would say, enjoy your young body, you know, and
(44:21):
and you know, use it, run play, get into the
best shape you can by building yourself up, not just
trying to be thin or whatever. Um that. You know.
I think that was something that I started to understand
(44:41):
around that age, was that my body was something that
I could really enjoy and not just sort of fight
against secret pleasure um um. And it's not so rapid.
Let's say, yeah, I like um uh um sugar free
(45:02):
gummy bears. That's good. That that's totally good. Finally, uh,
most beautiful place you've ever been in this world Aaliyah
and Bali. It's just it's both the natural beauty and
the the cultural beauty that there every day. I mean,
(45:28):
you can't drive down the roads there because there's some
sort of ritual happening. There's a ritualization, uh in everyday life.
You know, there's you know, I remember I was I
rented the scooter for the month. I was living there
for like a month, and the guy who I rented
it from said, I need the scooter back for one hour,
and I was like okay, and he brought it back
(45:50):
and there was this um elaborate like palm front we'ved
thing on it because it was like the day to
honor the god of transportation, and so this was this
this offering that was now on the front of my scooter.
(46:10):
You know, every every house you walk in front of
there some sort of altar um and and funerals are
these are the biggest celebrations they have. Um. It's a
It's a beautiful place. I hope I can return. Would
you would you live there if you could? I think
it's a little far from from from from the people
(46:32):
I love. Okay, okay a, Corey, I really appreciate you
taking time. Thank you for stopping by, thank you for
all your good work. I just thank you, appreciate it.
Thanks a good time. Yeah, yeah, I help you have
a good weekend, you too. Okay, take care, take care right.
(47:05):
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Carlos
Watson Show podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please tell
your friends to find us on the I Heart podcast
app or Apple podcast.
Cory Soul grew up in New York and began his
acting career on the theater stage. Fast forward, he can
now be seen in some of the biggest hit TV
series in films like House of Cards on Netflix, The
Strain on Ethics, and Marvel Comics film at Man. On
this episode of The Carlos Watson Show podcast, Cory still
reflects on how he first got involved in acting, what
(00:22):
his favorite role has been, and his new film, The
Many Saints of Newark. Hey, Corey, Hey, here's it going good?
How you doing? I'm good? Who's that photo of behind you?
That's Smiles Davis? Oh? Is that right? Yeah? Oh you
(00:42):
know what? Am I blind? Or is it hard to see?
Maybe I'm blind? It's pretty far away, is it okay? Okay?
And it's out of you know, And I used to
that context or seeing in boxing. Well, that's why I
was gonna say. That's why I was asking him I blind,
because I was like, am I just not seeing it correctly?
Because it looks like a boxer he has there, But
that's Miles Davis interesting in a boxing pose working out
(01:05):
at Gleason's gym. Yeah, do you do you box? Are you?
I've I've done some. It's it's been frustrating. I was
really getting into uh kravmagaw that's like the Israeli martial
arts for a couple of years leading up to the pandemic,
and then obviously wasn't doing it really during the pandemic.
(01:26):
I need to get back into it. It's cathartic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What else do you do? Are you a runner? Are
you a what? What? What? What? What released do you get?
You know, I'm I'm a swimmer and a walker and
uh and I liked and I lift weight. That that
was That's really been the the sort of mental health
(01:46):
UM savior during the pandemic. Yeah. Did you stay in
New York the whole time? Or what did you do? Yeah? Yeah,
almost all the time. We had a couple of little
trips in the summer, but um, but yeah, mostly mostly here. Well, wow,
I was in New York. I live in the Bay Are.
I live in California. But I've been out to New
York now two or three times, and it feels like
(02:08):
New York is gonna wake it up again and is
out and about. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I mean it's you know,
and and you know it looked like we were almost there,
just like you know, like tonight I'm going to the
opening of the Shakespeare in the Park, which I'm so
excited about. But there's even like a little bit of
(02:29):
that sort of like joy of like we're back, is
is undercut a little bit because you know, we're not
entirely safe? Yeah, yeah, does your does your little fella
realize what's going on? Or is he too young? Or
where where is he in his recognition of you know,
this time we've been in you know, he I think
I think we did a good job letting him know
(02:50):
that it's serious. We need to take precautions, but we're
gonna be fine, you know, and and as long as
we take these ouestions will be fine. And so he's been,
he's been really cool. He's actually had a shockingly happy year. Um,
you know, it's it's amazing. It's like kids are so
(03:12):
resilient on the big things often and then it's like
some random comment that you've give them that I'm sure
he'll be telling a therapist in twenty years now. Now,
what kind of dad are you? Are you the lenient dead,
are you the tough dead? Are you the kind of
dad are you. Well, it's all in context, right, so
(03:32):
you know, you know, you know, the parents play the role,
so I am definitely the more of the rule maker
and rule keeper. Um. But it's it's it's it's within
it's within limits. I'm not I'm not the great Santini. Okay, okay, Yeah,
it's uh, there's so many interesting dances and as you know,
(03:55):
last year has been such an interesting time for lots
of people and lots of parents especially. You have more
time with the kids where the families are together in
kind of different ways. So it's, uh, it's interesting in
that regard. Corey, Where did you grow up? Are you
a native New Yorker? Where was home originally? Yeah? I
grew up in the Upper West Side of Manhattan. And
(04:16):
what was that light back then? Was it was the
Upper west Side the Upper West Side of today? Or
was there was there a kind of a different field
to it at the time. It was it was not
nearly as um. It was hard to it was it
was hard to find a good restaurant, you know, it
was it was, it was. It was definitely much more
(04:36):
rough around the edges and and um and and the
dividing lines. I mean it's you know, you know, I
remember my grandfather talking about Central Park West when he
was growing up. He grew up in Manhattan too, and
the elevated uh subway, I forget it either went up
Columbus or Amsterdam, and he was like, that was the
(04:58):
other side of the tracks, you know, that there was
you know, these these these tony apartments, you know, along
Central Park West, and then you pass Amsterdam and you're
really you're really in in in a dangerous area and
that that is really you know, that's that's not like
that anymore at all. And we're your folks artists were
(05:20):
the actors as well, or you're you're you're breaking ground. Yeah. Yeah,
my my dad was a teacher, and then he uh
founded this uh this high school, this public high school
that's been really successful, the beak In High School in
New York. Um and which is really like nontraditional uh
(05:41):
school where they don't have grades and sort of portfolio
based um. And and my mom was a lawyer. Um
And they're both very recently retired. But but yeah, the
the like like the arts in my family, there were
like kind a couple of grandmothers who uh like a
had a grandmother who was a sculptor and uh uh,
(06:05):
well my other grandmother was just a a lover of
the art. But no, it was not a very artistic
family and definitely stick out in that sense. And and
did you get to it early? Like were you a
kid at eight nine and ten, if Corey and Carlos
has been buddies, would you have told me you know,
I'm going to be an actor one day or or
what were we talking about when you were eight nine
(06:26):
in ten? Uh No, In fact, I it was it
was like a very clear moment we were doing. It
was this program and I was in fifth grade. The
Metropolitan Opera did this amazing program. We did go into
elementary schools and so do these brainstorming sessions with kids
and break them up into the you're the writers, you're
(06:48):
the set designers, you're the actors. And I really wanted
to be a stage manager. For some reason, they had,
like I think they I think they had trouble getting
kids to be stage managers, and so they thinking this
is the job you want, was like totally. And that
was like and you know how to teacher, like you
should be an actor because you saw something that I
(07:09):
didn't see and I was like, no, there's you know,
there's just show offs. That's not me. I'm more down
to earth than that. And then we did this very
brief little improvisation where it was, you know, the whole
class got into a circle and they would like throw
scenario at you and they said, you know, you're somebody
(07:31):
dying of thirst in the desert. And I just hammed
up the biggest death with all these sort of false
deaths and got these huge laughs. And from from then on,
I've gotten that little shout a dopamine that I've been
chasing ever since. Did does that teacher know that you
went on to become and like if you stayed in
touch with that teacher in any way, I'm not not.
(07:55):
I mean maybe a couple of times I've seen her,
um uh yeah, uh yeah. And then and then I
had a teacher right after that in junior high school.
Um and Retrey who just passed away, um uh who
really sort of you know, the high schools in New York,
(08:16):
they have the the like Stuyveston and Brock Science, the
schools you test into, and then LaGuardia, the former's high school.
And she had somehow figured out the formula of getting
kids into LaGuardia. You do these monologues and she, um,
yeah she and retree she really she really steered the
(08:41):
course of my life in in a completely different direction.
And and and and at LaGuardia, will you ever overwhelmed?
Were you ever like, oh my god? There are all
these talented kids, because LaGuardia, if I remember correct, is
maybe even Miles went there. I can't remember where that
he went there, but but but I feel like Jennifer
Aniston went there, and you know, a whole suite of
interesting actors. I'm sure I'm not even remembering the folks
(09:04):
I should be mentioning now, but but they've got a
thick history, not not a thin history when it comes
to Yeah, and and even you know, like very recently
like Timothy shallow May and zay Z Beats and uh
ansel Elger. This is like it's uh yeah, it's a
really great school. And I think it's actually gotten better
since I was there. Um No, I didn't. I was
(09:29):
actually the first couple of years was really frustrating because
I think the influence of that teacher and Tree when
it was in junior high school made me realize that
acting was a discipline and was a craft, and it
wasn't just about using your charisma, you know. Um, and
I think that's very strange for somebody at fourteen to
(09:51):
really understand that and embrace that. And so it's you know,
they have this class of over a hundred kids every year,
and I don't know if there's that any kids in
the city who really understand what's required of them, and
you know, super talented kids. But um, so there was
like a handful of us that were like super like
(10:11):
drama nerds who just wanted to work really hard to
do this. And then there were like a bunch of
kids who who you know, they didn't they were talented,
but didn't quite realize it's actually really hard work. Um.
And then as and then by the time I was
like a junior and senior, kids started to sort of,
I think get it. But I was ridiculously selfishort like
(10:35):
way beyond what I had any right to be. I
remember very clearly in my freshman year one of my
classmates saying, so, do you want to be an actor?
And I'm saying, I am an actor. Um, you know,
I don't need somebody to give me a paychecker to
call me an actor. You know, if I say I'm
an actor, I'm an actor, and um, it was incredibly
(11:00):
I'm notxious, but I think it's I think it's served
me well because I think there's a certain amount of
sort of blind self assurance or you know, willing, you know,
disregard of the risks that is necessary to be successful.
Who were your bright lights at the time, Like when
you thought about the actors who you admire, you liked,
(11:22):
or who you were going to try and pattern some
version of your career off of, like who is you know,
who was in front of you? Who were you thinking about? Um? Well,
it was sort of on two different tracks. You know.
There were the movie stars and Gene Hackman was always
a real hero of mine. Um, and of course, you know,
(11:45):
like Pacino and de Niro and you know, all the
kind of the great actors that like guys really like UM.
But I remember really clearly my grandmother took me to
the original progression of Fences and I remember seeing uh
Courtney of Evans, who was at the time, you know,
(12:05):
it's very early twenties. It was a really young guy
and it was and him going head to head with
James Earl Jones and holding his own that he's playing
a character named Corey. So that sort of helped with
the identification. Um, but it was it was revelatory to
me to see that that in the theater experience is
(12:30):
is an incredible asset. But there is a certain sort
of um equalizing thing about it, and that it's if
everybody brings their full self to a great role at
the right time, you can you can have somebody as
powerful and legendary is James Earl Jones going up against
(12:53):
a kid. And that was that really stuck with me.
Who else now that you have been in the game
and and and bring a certain level of experience and
knowledge to it, who now is on your amount rushmore
like when you you know what I mean, when you
think about who's got the goods defined? However Corey wants
(13:16):
to define it, you know, who's on Mount Stole more
like who's working now or in the past. But but
but but like you know it in a way that
that fifteen year old kid, I love it, who said
I'm an actor? Yeah, but you know it almost a
little differently today And so maybe the same people are
(13:36):
on Mount Stole more or maybe different people are on
Mount stoll Moore. But who's who, Who's who's up there? Now?
I mean, you know, I mean there's there's there, there's
so many, so many great actors and and um god,
you know it's funny. It's I think more and more
as I as I work and I work with people
(14:00):
and they become peers or you know, real people and
not just stars. It it makes it a little bit
harder to see the performance. And I think sometimes seeing
foreign language films, I can appreciate the work in a
(14:22):
way that I sometimes can't in u Ah, in my
relative language. And you know, I just saw I mean,
even though he's a big star here Matts Michelson. Um
another round. Did you see that movie? I haven't seen that. Yeah,
it's great, and it's just he's just he's just incredible.
(14:43):
And then he's just he he understands the camera and
the camera loves him in this way. Uh, and he's
calib you know. It's a performance that's he's supposed to
be all these different kinds of drunk, you know, and
which is famously the hardest thing to play when you're
(15:04):
an actor, to play drunk, because it's just there's just
so many pitfalls. Um, but he's drunk almost the entire movie.
But but you know he has to calibrate it. So
I've had two glasses of wine, and I've had a
bottle of wine. I've had half a bottle of vodka,
and it's like it's it's brilliant. Wow. I love that,
and I love the challenge of that is as you
(15:24):
describe that, I've always admired people when I've seen them
do those kind of one person plays and and the
fact that someone could own that all the way through.
I think I saw Laurence Fishburn years ago, Um do that.
And you know, again, there's maybe you take it for
granted because you've done it so often, but you're an
(15:45):
other actor's ability to memorize lines, and not just to
memorize lines, but to be in the moment and to
inhabit the whole thing and tell me that whole story,
and that at least for me to make it seem flaw. Um.
You know, it's funny. It's like I think, I think
actors have such a love hate relationship with when people say,
(16:07):
how do you memorize all those lines? Because you know,
you're just like, I'm just I've done some other things too.
The memorizing was just sort of sort of work. Uh,
you know if that's all you got from it, but um,
but yet you do want some acknowledgement that that was
a lot of worth memorize all those lines. But I
think I personally like I've done I've done some things
(16:28):
some one person things or things worth really long monologues.
And I actually really and right now doing the show
Billions where I have these, you know, these really long speeches,
and it's it's a it's a daily thing or memorizing stuff. Um,
it's actually as somebody who is not a not self
(16:53):
taught or sort of an instinctual actor, you know, somebody
who who who is over educated as an actor, It's
it's actually helpful because it's like work. I could get
to sort of like pretend I'm doing something. I'm working,
you know, I have to do it. But like there's
been a few times where I've worked with at like
(17:13):
Charlie Starren is somebody who I really was one of
the most intimidating people have worked with, even though she's
it was incredibly generous and nice, but I just I
couldn't tell how she was doing what she was doing.
You know, it was just it was in a It
wasn't There was no technique that I could say, um,
(17:35):
whereas you know, working with other actors who have incredible skill,
it's it's impressive and exciting, but I have a I
can sort of understand what they're doing. I have a
context for it. How do you think she was doing
what she was doing? That is interesting when you when
you say it that way. How do you think she
was doing what she was doing? I mean, I think
(17:57):
she on a very basic level she was doing she
just playing thankful, I mean, which is what we're which
is what we're all doing. Um. But maybe they're there
were a fewer steps in between, and maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe she has a you know this incredibly complex uh
uh technique. Um. But it was invisible from the outside.
(18:21):
You know. She would go from reading through the script
to dropped in totally emotionally connected and riveting. I've never
met her before, but I've seen her talk about growing
up a little bit and a very uh tumultuous upbringing.
(18:42):
And I was in a very bad car accident when
I was a kid. They thought I was never gonna
walk again, and as a result, whenever I hear someone
talk about something painful, I can drop in right away
and I can almost feel it. And sometimes if it's
a little too clear, I can almost physically feel that
because I can still feel being on the side of
the road, and I can still feel you know, uh,
(19:05):
you know, stuff not being in a good space and place.
And I wonder whether having maybe I'm just projecting and
making up now. But but but it's interesting cause I
hear you say that, as I think about the conversations
I've seen or have, I wonder whether there is some
extra access um to a whole set of experiences. It
maybe allows her to drop in sooner or or more
(19:28):
quickly because she wanted to leave where she was. Yeah,
I mean, I think, I mean the truth is that everybody,
everybody has trauma in their life on some level. You
know what I mean that we're it's sort of you
you're I think your psyche expands to fill whatever container
it's in. And so if you live a life of
(19:50):
incredible violence and poverty. Um, you know, as we were
saying before, with like how kids are managing to uh
to handle this pandemic and all the you know, weird
things with the mask and everything. Um or if you
have a privileged life, there's still these minor traumas that happen,
(20:13):
and I think your psyche can't at a certain point,
I think you're psychic, can't really tell the difference. And
that's why art works. That's why these representations of life
that people act work because there is a universality you
know what you know, but it takes somebody really sharing
(20:36):
their specific life experiences to reach across in that way.
(21:00):
Corey was about your favorite role of all time. I
realized that I've I've enjoyed you in so many different
places and spaces, from House of Cards to Billions to
two move These to other things. But what have you
enjoyed like what moved you? Um? I did Macbeth two
(21:22):
falls ago, um with my wife actually playing Lady Macbeth um.
And it was in this very small theater, super pared
down production. You know, hardly any furniture, just a few
actors on stage and that character. I've never had that
(21:44):
experience of feeling this entire life on stage, you know,
starting starting off as this victorious warrior um getting this
sort of call to action by the by and spooked
(22:05):
by the by the witches. You see this, you see
a glimpse into this incredibly complex and difficult but loving marriage.
You see the crime that he commits, and then the
descent into madness and then a sort of a brief
(22:29):
enlightenment and sort of understanding of what life is at
the end um And to be able to be able
to play that every single night, um was was like
if everybody would say, well, you're playing Macbeth, is it
really and you're playing it with your wife? Is it
(22:49):
just like torturous? So you guys, you know, stick of
each other when you get home or you're at each
other's throats. And it was the exact opposite. It felt
like this exorcism every night or just went through It
felt like I was going through every possible human emotion
and every night and I could just sort of wash
(23:10):
that off with the blood at the at the end
of the night and go home happy. Yeah. I h
I love that. If you had a dream scenario going forward,
and if there was one role for you that somebody
was going to perfectly bring uh to Mr Soul's doorstep,
what what what? What would they bring you? You know?
(23:31):
That's that's what's really one of the hardest questions to answer.
I get that. I think every act to get that
question a lot. And part of it is strange because
you just in the times where I've had sort of
dream roles. You know when I when I got to
play Hemingway, Um. You know when I when I played
(23:52):
Peter Russo in Her House of Cards. Other roles that
have been so fulfilling. I could not have predicted it.
It wasn't until I got the role and was doing
it that it was like, this is just self fulfilling
and is a good fit. Um. So that's that's the
non answer. And then I would say along the lines
of what I said with Macbeth, I think, you know,
(24:14):
I'm getting a little old for it, but I think Hamlet, um,
although I think I think, uh, there's somebody who's playing
it was like two um, Ian McAllen. Ian McCallen is
playing Hamlet right now, So I guess I'm not too old, yea. Um.
(24:35):
But you know again that the the encyclopedic nature of
of the role is really appealing to me. That over
the course of you know, in Hamlet's like four hours long,
over the course of that night you go through you
have to re least the opportunity to go through every
possible color, every possible emotion, and and and I think
(24:57):
that's the key to what's fighting and fun and fulfiling
about about being a performers. The variety is that you
get to live these other lives. You know. It's interesting
that you mentioned ian and at two and I wonder
whether there's something that's even more valuable and juicy about
getting to be an actor at that age that the
(25:19):
chance to inhabit new spaces and places, to remain vibrant,
to get that dopamine that you talked about, to challenge
yourself with the opportunity to memorize or go into different places.
I wonder if there if there's a world in which, uh,
you know, like some good wine, actually acting becomes more
(25:40):
enjoyable as you as you get into a certain certain
era of life. Absolutely absolutely, And that that's you know,
I think, I think acting does give you the opportunity
two two to fight time. Oh you know that that
(26:03):
time warps in a really interesting way within certainly during
a play and then even just between action and cut
when you're when you're filming it. It it extends and
deepens that time like like any sort of meditation does
anytime when you're really focusing and living fully in the moment,
(26:24):
it it extends that time. And I think you know,
one thing, that's one thing that's difficult about acting often
if you're not on a long running TV show, is
you're pretty much your mercenary and you're going from gig
to gig, and that can be stressful. But it's an
(26:44):
incredible um gift two be able to divide your life
into these experiences right now. For a few months, I
played this murderer, and then for a year I played
this lover, and then you know, for two weeks I
(27:05):
played the smartest man in the world. And you know, um,
you know that was actually one of the one of
the things that was actually really drove me crazy about
the pandemic was I had been spoiled with being busy
and being able to say, oh yeah, those three months
of my life that's where I was playing that role,
(27:26):
and I suddenly I was adrift from that sort of
way of marking time. How did you end up using
the time? Were you sedentary, were restless? Were you pacing
back and forth? Were you writing? How did you end
up using the time? Sort of all of that, I
did a lot of writing. None of it I would
ever showed anybody. Um, but I actually wrote more than
(27:49):
I had ever I'd actually got into a daily writing
uh process which is continued, which has been one of
the greatest gifts from from this time period. And I
and I really focused on my time with my son. Um.
My wife was actually much more busy uh and needed
her space because she was she was writing a project
(28:10):
that was that that she's continuing to do that's um
much more so of fully formed and UM. I was like, Okay, well,
I'm this is this is that this is valuable time
with my son, and so that that that's really been
the silver lining. Um, because now that I'm working a lot,
(28:33):
I'm pining for that for that time with my son. Yeah.
Probably it'll be interesting as he grows up his whether
he remembers this time as much. And it probably there's
a particularly interesting window if I remember, right, he's is
he four or five? Six? Is he somewhere? Yeah, he'll
be six in October. Yeah. Yeah, So I bet you
(28:57):
that there's probably some extra goodness that you got this
time with him, that that it will it will stay
with him. Yeah, I think so. I think we we
were really I mean, everybody suffered through this pandemic in
their own way, um, you know, and you know, and
definitely having a small child is it was exhausting, uh
you know when you're confined at home. But it was
(29:19):
also um, it was a blessing that he's of an
age where he wants to hang out with me all
the time. He's not a teenager who just wants to
get get you know. And and it was and just
every single day we laughed hysterically. There was something that
he did that made us laugh hysterically. And that that
(29:43):
a real gift. That is a that is a that's
a beautiful thing. Hey, how did you decide to do
this film? The Many Saints of New York was? Uh
did they bring you to it? Did you? Did you
come to it? How did how did you end up
getting involved? Uh? Yeah, it came to me as an offer. Um,
I certainly would have would have fought for it. Um,
(30:07):
you know, I was I was a big fan of
the show. Uh you know. I I watched it when
I was when I was first on and then actually
when my wife was pregnant over that summer, we she
had never seen it so we watched the whole thing
through again. UM, and then of course when I was cast,
(30:28):
I watched it again. So I don't recommend really binging
that show. I think it's something that you need a
little break from, like watching more than two episodes a night. Yeah,
it's so stressful. It's just it's it's just it's the
the the identification that you have with these characters who
are so reprehensible and UM lived such a stressful life.
(30:53):
It's just it's just too much. But UM, did you
know Gambelfeenie did you did you as he was doing
to Brontos? Did you know? No? You know? I I
you know, I got out of grad school and two
thousands three. So it was just like as the show
was UM was winding down. I never even got an
(31:17):
audition for it, which I always sort of regretted. I
really was like, I's got to get on that show, um,
and so two to be able to be a part
of it and to be you know, part of the family. Ah,
it was. It was really cool. Have you ever had
any friends involved in the organized crime in one way
or another? Um, you know, there was it was one
(31:43):
or two that I had some suspicions, you know that.
But yeah, yeah, it's I grew up in Miami at
a time in which, uh, you know, we were in
transition as a city and uh and so lots of
lots of unusual characters. And I could envision New York
(32:03):
being a place that uh and obviously New Work being
a place that you know, had lots of people involved
in in different ways. Um. Do you think we need
a show like The Sopranos again? Um? In any way?
Or was that what it was for its time? And
we've got a whole new set of of TV series
(32:25):
in this golden age of television? You know, do we
need anything? I think we need. We need good writing,
and we need you know, we need David Chase writing.
And if that's what he's gonna write, then let's watch it.
I mean, um, I I think I think it's really
(32:48):
it's I'm glad that it's going this way and not
a continuation of the story because obviously that that story
ended so brilliantly and um, with such resonance that did
then continue the story, I feel would be would really
rob that's brilliant last episode of so much power. Um.
(33:11):
But I think I think this show that this movie
it has He's having a conversation with the series in
a way that um, that deepens it and um, you
know I think and honors it. I think, yeah, yeah, yeah,
what a uh, what an interesting time. All those shows,
(33:32):
all of those gangster shows of one way or another.
I'm also a fan of Peaky Blinders if you ever
watched that, which is a different version of that conversation,
but also a a good and a good and valuable one. Corey,
when you look back at your career, we talk a
lot on the show about dreaming fearlessly and how people
(33:52):
breakthrough or not. Why do you think you've had as
much success as you've had? And and I asked that,
and Lee and I asked it, Given that you've had
the advantage of actually been the one who lived that
life and actually seen you know, what worked and what didn't,
why do you think you've been as busy as thoroughly
busy with as many interesting projects as you've had. Well, I,
(34:15):
you know, I think luck is is an undeniable part
of it, you know, not you know luck starting with um,
having a family that supported me, supported me, you know,
going you know, going to college and grad school and um,
(34:39):
you know, having that, having that that space two not
have to um, not have to wait tables. I did
some waiting tables, but like I pretty quickly started working
and I was so that was an incredible amount of luck.
I mean, it's a hard question two to answer one self.
(35:03):
I mean, I I think I you know, as I
said before, I had this weird unearned confidence, uh, starting
when I was like fourteen, that's you know. And and
even though it was unearned and maybe a little brady
(35:25):
and uh, it served me well because I think there
is a certain amount of sort of willful um blindness
that you need. You need to you need to visualize
yourself where you're trying to go and and and I
(35:49):
believe that you deserve to be there. I think I
think that is a huge part where the times of
my life where I feel like I have sabotaged myself,
it's um, I think the root of that is often
that you feel like you don't yeah, that you don't
deserve it. Um. Also just I mean, like I also
(36:13):
just an incredibly lucky when I came when I started working,
I mean, just to be able to be a bald
guy and not play a you know, a biker or
you know, uh, you know, prisoner. You know, it was
(36:37):
until until pretty recently it was a pretty niche look um,
and the idea of somebody looking like me playing a
lawyer or a doctor, just a regular guy, um, wouldn't
have happened. And so I think that was that was
that was actually quite a quite a bit of luck
for me. That is so interesting that you say that,
(36:59):
you know, Malcolm glad Well rights and outliers about Steve
Jobs and Bill Gates being born in fifth and basically says,
if they've been born a couple of years earlier, a
couple of years later, someone else would have been Bill
Gates and Steve Jobs, meaning that there was a particular
confluence of need and events and opportunity that may have
facilitated some of that. And you know, maybe he's right,
(37:21):
maybe he's wrong, but that is that's such an interesting
thought about you know, would would you be as welcome
into that space if you were you know, uh, Qurey
ten years older. Um, it's interesting, you know, and if
I had, and I think there's you know, there there
(37:44):
was a moment as I was starting my career where
there were multiple people in my life where like you
need to get hair plugs. You need to like, if
you want to work like, you need to do this.
You need to make this change. And I'm not going
sure what it was about me that resisted it, um,
but I'm really glad I did because I think the
(38:06):
those people in the industry that that saw something in
me that wanted to hire me. I think part of
that was this sense of being comfortable in my own
skin and trying to chase a um uh, sort of
a conventional handsomeness or masculinity um was in itself, you know, counttractive,
(38:37):
that that that that that need to be needed. Um.
And I rejected that. Well, I see you going back
to that fourteen year old, or at least I go
back to that fourteen year old and his unreasonable confidence
and uh and and how that may have powered you through,
how that may have you know, provide it almost like
(39:00):
a like a safe shield that is, you know, may
have taken you. Yeah. And it's weird because it's not.
I don't want to give the impression that I am
the supremely confident person. You know. I I often play
you know, I've played a few supremely confident people. But
that's not that's not who I am. But for some reason,
(39:21):
in a few key things, I just didn't I just
didn't care enough to be to want to change myself. Corey.
When I when I appreciate your work, when I appreciate
Katherine Keener's work. Um, sometimes I see actors, incredible actors
who have had so many good, interesting roles, but may
(39:43):
not yet be household names. How do you think about that?
How do you experience that? Um? You know, Uh, I
I just did a project that's top seker. I can't
talk about it, but it was it was a thing
where um, it's all performance capture stuff, you know that
(40:07):
sort of came with the doughts on your face. And
it was so pleasurable to do because it was finally,
this this way where I can do my craft and
I can express myself in all these great ways that
(40:28):
aren't the way that I can express myself in polite society. Um.
And I'm using I'm using my voice, I'm using my
instrument of my face. But it's not me and I
can it's and there's that that mask and that separation,
(40:50):
and um, I felt so free and so I look,
you know, if somebody stops down the Street says you,
I really love your work. Thank you. That that means
a lot to me. But a random person saying hey,
you're famous, sort of uh, how can I get a
(41:11):
selfie with you? Is that is? That is not pleasurable
for me? That is really a panic? Um, And so
you know, I think, I yeah, I I enjoy the work.
I enjoy working with people I respect, and I get
(41:34):
incredible pleasure out of people who I respect respecting my work. Um.
But the but I'm the fame stuff is ah, certainly,
I think it's pretty overrated. Um, you know. And that's
speaking from somebody who's sometimes kind of famous depending on
(41:55):
where I am. But I definitely like I hated wearing
asks all all year, but it was sort of nice
to be able to return to a sense of anonymity.
I want to see that project. What's it going to
come out? I'm not sure it's whole. Hey, you mind
(42:31):
if I close us with a little something I call
rapid Fire? All right? What's your karaoke song? Ring of Fire? Oh? Outstanding?
Love that love that, love that. If but if you
weren't an actor, what else would you be doing? I'll
see that's the problem. That's why I'm an actor, what
would I be doing? Uh, I'd be teaching I think,
(42:54):
I think. I don't know if I said cheating to
say that I'd be teaching acting. But yeah, no, that's good.
I'll say that your favorite movie of all time? Doctor Strange.
Love so interesting. Most interesting thing you've learned about parenting. Um,
it's a cliche, but the this new level of love
(43:16):
that you're capable of, that nothing in your life before
that really prepares you for seeing that in yourself. Best
decision you've ever made. Uh uh well, I mean the
best decision I ever made was it was it was
happening at sort of at the same time, but getting
(43:37):
married and having my son, luckiest thing to ever happened
to you, the best piece of luck you've ever had, um,
Woody Allen coming to see a play that I was in.
Then Cash Rane, if you were whispering to your younger
self whatever you wanted to whisper, but you were able
(43:58):
to go back in time, what is the one thing
you'd whispered to eighteen year old Corey? What would you
whisper to him? You have about a minute with him,
What are you going to tell him? Oh? I have
a long time, alright, that it was just one okay, Uh,
you know, I actually think I could say it pretty concisely.
I would say, enjoy your young body, you know, and
(44:21):
and you know, use it, run play, get into the
best shape you can by building yourself up, not just
trying to be thin or whatever. Um that. You know.
I think that was something that I started to understand
(44:41):
around that age, was that my body was something that
I could really enjoy and not just sort of fight
against secret pleasure um um. And it's not so rapid.
Let's say, yeah, I like um uh um sugar free
(45:02):
gummy bears. That's good. That that's totally good. Finally, uh,
most beautiful place you've ever been in this world Aaliyah
and Bali. It's just it's both the natural beauty and
the the cultural beauty that there every day. I mean,
(45:28):
you can't drive down the roads there because there's some
sort of ritual happening. There's a ritualization, uh in everyday life.
You know, there's you know, I remember I was I
rented the scooter for the month. I was living there
for like a month, and the guy who I rented
it from said, I need the scooter back for one hour,
and I was like okay, and he brought it back
(45:50):
and there was this um elaborate like palm front we'ved
thing on it because it was like the day to
honor the god of transportation, and so this was this
this offering that was now on the front of my scooter.
(46:10):
You know, every every house you walk in front of
there some sort of altar um and and funerals are
these are the biggest celebrations they have. Um. It's a
It's a beautiful place. I hope I can return. Would
you would you live there if you could? I think
it's a little far from from from from the people
(46:32):
I love. Okay, okay a, Corey, I really appreciate you
taking time. Thank you for stopping by, thank you for
all your good work. I just thank you, appreciate it.
Thanks a good time. Yeah, yeah, I help you have
a good weekend, you too. Okay, take care, take care right.
(47:05):
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Carlos
Watson Show podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please tell
your friends to find us on the I Heart podcast
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