September 16, 2021 • 42 mins
Carlos talks to Ethiopian-Swedish chef Marcus Samuelsson about all things sustainability and what the future holds for him and his restaurant Red Rooster.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Marcus Samuelson is one of the most recognizable names in
the restaurant industry. The Ethiopian Swedish chef has appeared on
the Food Network shows like Chopped, Beat, Bobby Play, and
Chop Jr. Now he's back on the Carlos Watson Show
podcast to talk all things sustainability and what the future
holds for him and his restaurant, Red Rooster. Hey man, Hey,
(00:33):
how are you good? How you doing? Studio looks good? Oh? Man?
You know what, We've done some good stuff on it,
and uh, we might even try and we thought when
the world was getting healthy, we were going to try
and do some in person stuff. So I actually was
going to talk to you about some in person stuff
in New York in Miami, but it feels like everything's
gotten tossed in the air. Agat. Yeah, please tell me
(00:54):
about it. Yeah yeah, yeah. Are you in Miami or
New York? Where you coming this week? Um? And then
I add to Miami next week, So I'll go back
and forth basically. And what's been like in Miami? Have
you been there when the Delta has been hot? Uh?
Not yet. I got out a couple of weeks ago.
So now it's the first time I go back, it's
(01:15):
it's tough, it's tough, yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And what's
what are you finding in your restaurants? Are you finding
that everybody is getting vaccinated or you find lots of
hesitancy or like what's you're because you haven't you have
multiple population sets geographically, socioeconomically, racially, age wise, like you
(01:37):
have a more interesting you know, based too to reflect on.
So I would say in starting Quebec and I go
to East Court, coast down, I would say in Quebec,
Montreal and New York very high everybody gets vaccinated. Um,
ready to go back in dining all of that stuff.
(02:00):
Then as we are in Florida, Bahamas, you have, um,
everything happens outside, right, everything is outside. So the very
different lifestyle right versus you think about even even summertime
cities like New York, Montreal, you start with the inside
and then you might go outside of the patio. I
(02:22):
would say in Bahamas standing even Miami, the way we are,
everything starts outside and then you might end up inside.
So it's just a very different way of thinking about
UM lifestyle choice. It's right, and obviously that we're trying
to get everybody we can vaccinated, but also know that
it's a very personal choice for people. And I wish
(02:47):
there was one solution, one answer, right, but it's not
so in this time. This is a very if last
year was just difficult, this year is a stop that starts.
It's a new chat, allunge, and we still don't have
the solution. Right. We have the vaccine that has helped
a lot, and we have obviously the information that is
(03:08):
out that helps a lot, but then we still haven't
found this full solution yet. So it's it's tough. Do
you find yourself nervous? Are you are you personally nervous
about catching COVID or have you already had COVID? We
have not had COVID in my family, but a lot
of people in my extended family, both in restaurants and
in my community. Then my uncle passed away in COVID.
(03:32):
My young nephew in Sweden had COVID and you know,
it's twenty five six is very strong, but about a
lasting COVID over four or five months, you know, like
so he he just got back in June and it
lasted for about on and off for about five six months.
And that was tough. You know, it's very, very difficult.
So I've I've lost friends, I've had people have COVID
(03:55):
with no not having even the experienced one thing, and
family members that I so I've all of the book,
you know, but of course I'm afraid of it, and
I respected makes me nervous, makes me nervous when you know,
playing with my son that just runs towards people and
hugs people and stuff like that like any five year
old would do, right, It just makes me nervous. Yeah, yeah,
(04:19):
Marcus is as funny as I'm talking to you here,
and I'm in so many conversations you and I have
are playing back in my head, and I'm thinking about
what an interesting entering is the wrong word, But but
what a time this has been, the last year plus.
Do you think you've changed fundamentally in that time? And
I'm not searching for a particularly answer, but I'm just
(04:40):
literally curious. Have you changed meaningfully you think over the
last year and a half in anyway? I would like
to think that the answer is yes. You know, maybe
it's too soon to talk about that, but I can
talk about acknowledging my privilege to be able to work
and be able to have access to healthcare right, things
that maybe I took for granted before. I've definitely noticed
(05:01):
in my friends group that we are appreciating when we
can get together, even if it's just on a zoom
because you know this, this is this is uh, just
appreciative and starting to see what has come out of
COVID them maybe we didn't have before. So I definitely
spent more time with my family, with my wife and
my son. I was there when my son started to
(05:23):
swim and started to buy it. Also things that I
could have guaranteed you that I would have missed otherwise,
right to the value proposition um. And also thinking you
know a lot about ah, focusing on what's important for us.
It's been spending time with the family, making sure that
my son is in nature and the fact that we
(05:44):
can take him to the water or be in nature,
because playing in in big New York City, um, you
know hearts with back to people is not that attractive
for us, right, so we just have to think about
what can we do, Where can we go where we
can have great experiences for him and maybe just form
(06:05):
less people around us. How do you think about politics?
I mean, what was watching obviously Cuomo resign and politics
have been so volatile over the last year and a half,
and uh, names we never knew have entered the arena,
like Marjorie Taylor Green and Jamal Bowman and other people,
(06:26):
um uh, people who you know you weren't sure ever
would leave the scene, like Cuomo, maybe even like Trump,
um uh in one way or another or less present.
You know, we had, in my mind a surprising Democratic primary.
Joe Biden went from nowhere to not only the nomination
with the presidency. How do you how are you? And
(06:47):
I know you love politics and you value politics and
that you think about politics policy, So that's that's obviously
why I'm asking how do you think Biden is doing?
And when it comes to politics, what are you paying
attention to right now? Well, that's a great question. Pay
attention because there's a lot of noise and then there's
a stuff right matters, And I think that something like
(07:09):
Jamal Bowman something the fact that New York City is
going to get a new mayor and a new governor
at the same year in these difficult times, right, that
is super important, right And the fact that they are
now I'm gonna they didn't know each other that much,
probably before, but now they have to get to know
each other because they're really partners, right at A governor
(07:31):
of New York State and the mayor of New York
City or truly partners in any good good. The better partnership,
the better for the state and of the city. Right.
So I'll watch that, and I mean fortunate enough to
sit down with the mayor elect and looking forward to
you know, his challenges and working on and with the city. Right.
It's very important for especially in my industry as person.
(07:53):
You know, when you're a black chef and an immigrant
come into this country, you have to knowledge to policies
that was as I know how people fought for it,
like our parents generations are grandparents generation, you know, they're
really the people that laid the groundworks for someone like
(08:13):
me being fortunate being black and being an immigrant. So
I've been the benefit of all the hard work during
civil rights movement and post that. So that's also one
of the reason why I would feel like paying the
tax of normal tax payer, but also paying the tax
of UM being there for people that are trying to
(08:35):
make UM black and by park uh lives and businesses better.
I have to have to be part of those conversations. Right. Uh,
there's a lot of noise, so um you know that stuff.
I don't. I don't try to pay attention to you
because you mentioned a couple of people that has been elected,
(08:57):
and for me, they're not I respect the fact that
they're being elected, but that's not politics or policies, bace,
that's just noise and sound bites. For maybe the real
aim is to work for Fox News or something like that. Right,
the way they use the platform of Congress to get
to the next end go right, and that for me,
(09:20):
they're not really full into politics. It's just noisy, you know,
because the statements has nothing to do with improving for people.
It's just how can I be loud and build the
Twitter or on Instagram following so I can go to
the next stense. And I think it's sad to see
that high offices public offices are being used as bridges
(09:42):
and tunnels for the next gig. You know, that's sad
to me. Do you how much how much do you
find yourself Marcus talking to Trump supporters? Do you find
that among your friendship group or your business associates, or
your employees or colleagues or others that you have many
Trump associates in your life or supporters, because I've lived
all over the world and I know being black it's
(10:06):
the starting point and a question mark for a lot
of people, especially when you grew up in a country
like Sweden, where there's probably people a little more passive
in terms of their views, but they could be very
aggressive with it in a quieter setting. Right, So I'm
not naive the things that and why should people have
the same view everywhere? That wouldn't create American that wouldn't
(10:28):
be a dynamic situation. So the fact that people have
different point of views than me, I welcome that. That's
how we have moved forward with all great ideas. It's
a it's a hell of battle back and forth. That's
how you get great ideas. Yet, right, So if someone
is just pure Republican because that's what they've been in
their country, in the family, and that's truly their belief formed, great,
(10:51):
That's that's a different thing. If someone thinks that um
generally six was technique in the park, there's nothing I
can say to that person because whatever I'm gonna say
to that person, they're not gonna believe, right. So I
try to put this bucket to each your Republican great
(11:13):
and it's just we can go back and forth on
ideas and ideology. I welcome that and I'll learned something
in that process, right, um So, And I also know
that you should go back in history. Republicans will actually
in the beginning the people that helped African American people
more than Democrats. So there's this history of Democrats Republicans
(11:36):
to go back and forth when it comes to um
being a supporter of the former president. You know that
that's you know that person there time to their opinion.
They're gonna have their opinion. It does not matter at
all whatever Sweetie opium like me gonna tell that person.
Oh I love that, sweetie opiate. I don't. I'm sure
(11:56):
you use that before, but I haven't heard that, and
I loved it. Um. In fact, I've been telling people
how much when we had our last conversation, and I
really realized how fortunate you've been to touch the world
in meaningful ways, meaning born in Africa, raised in Europe,
trained in Asia, and living and training in North America,
(12:17):
and with you know, opportunities and touch points all over
the globe that and maybe a more a live way
than most of us. You you really do have a
global perspective to be very fortunate. Yeah, I met I
met some great mentors. I've had some great people that
really guided me through this thing called life and hasn't
always been easy, but it's always been I've always had fun,
(12:40):
I've always worked hard, and I've always been realized that
really fortunate to be in that room, whatever that movement is,
whether it's a basement kitchen or whether it's been a
a C suite somewhere, you know, most of the time
is you got to solve a problem. We work together.
We have a higher chance do it if we work
(13:00):
together as a team, and it's really fun solving that problem,
whatever it might be. If we do it together, you
know that those things doesn't change. And guess what, when
people do it, they're really good at it. But we
do want to work together, really good. Even if I
have different starting points of different opinions. I'm sure you
and I can talk about whether you know Messy it's
(13:25):
better than Ronaldo, what did that mean? Or Lebraun was
better than Michael It means that we both enjoy basketball
and soccer. And we're gonna have philosophical differences on who
and why, right, But the end of the day, we
love the sports and the culture and if we look
at saim from that point of view. Right. And also
on top of that, respect science, but respect knowledge. Why
(13:47):
have we come to the point where we don't respect knowledge?
You know what I mean in science? And like for me,
it's not a coincident anymore that look at Sicily, they're
the highest highest temperature ever California importunate and the West
is burning and you know it happens now it gets
(14:07):
hotter and hotter and contral like Sweden and Norway, whether
you don't want to call that global warming, pick your
word for it, but like we have to take big
care of our environment right this. You cannot be on
two sides of that, Like, it's only one side to
be on. It's the right side. Say more about that,
(14:43):
because I was both happy and I don't know why
I was surprised, but I was surprised when the team
said that you were excited to talk about sustainability. Say
more about what's brought you to to the topic and
how it has played out in your life. Yeah, I
think it's full circle. I think I I don't know
if even if sustainability and the right word. I feel
like it's a little bit like the facts machine is
(15:05):
something that we're using now and then in twenty years
we might not use that word anymore. Because you want
to re injure engineers, you want to read, You want
to come up with something that is better than that
sustained or sustain really goes back to hold its the
same and and you want to come up with just
the version that it's a little bit better. Right. And
also think as a chef, I have to look at
(15:27):
myself and look at my community because we are game
changes at this point. Right. Think about a restaurant cardless right.
It is a place where with the three marketplaces that
meets in one. There is the team, the cooks, the
service that you teach and bringing new ingredients. There is
the preveyors that growses, and then there's you, the customer
(15:51):
and the audience. But once it comes into a restaurant,
it becomes almost like a sport. You're becoming a participating
sport where everyone is asking, oh, they're using ramps here,
I wonder where they came from, or they're using truffles here,
I wonder where they came from, and eventually the customer's
behavior want to take those ingredients home and start cooking better.
So that means that now the consumer product of this
(16:13):
it's going to increase. Right. That means that it matters
how do we grow it? Where was the carbon footprint
from us? How do we get it to us? Right?
And it does it on a large scale. So you
can look at where was fishing in the world circa
nineteen and where it is today. Well, that's also picked
to huge increase in MEDDA class, but it's also paged
(16:35):
to the fact that people need sushio all over the world. Right,
So fish is being out fished, right, So whatever we
if I communicate my several hundred thousand followers, I know
that percentage of them will use that right. So it's
an opportunity and a challenge for me to make sure
I guide it in the right direction. What I buy
(16:57):
in my restaurant, that I have those habits as what
I preach with my crew, right. So sustainability is not
something for them, whoever them are they are, It's really
something for us, me and you that we all can
really be part of being a game changer, particularly when
you work in a big country like America, China and
(17:19):
India and you know that you're setting trends and behavior
patterns that eventually will change. Right. So, for example, I
was given the youth challenge and opportunity and credible um
challenge to create curate the medical at at the New
York City so people can look at that it's a
fashion event. It's more than that, it's also saying to
(17:40):
you the world New York City is back for events. Right.
So I so our team we pick and decided to
do a plant based menue because we know that once
Vogue talks about it and the world talks about it,
the ideal plant based comes, you know, becomes a fashion
and conversation all over the world. Right. So for me,
(18:01):
the actions that we do and the way we broadcast
it has massive impact. It's very important as a chef
in New York City, as black chef in New York
City that sustainability and green is not something that only
happens in vite conversation. It happens in our spaces as well.
Would say more about what you think we as black
(18:22):
people bring distinctly or or maybe especially valuably to the
sustainability conversation or whatever the right word is. I like
the fact that you question whether or not sustainability is
the right long term word. But but, but, but but
what do you think we in particular bring. I like
that you're saying that, and it's it's reminding me of
a conversation I recently had with people about bitcoin or
(18:44):
or about crypto and what black people may bring that's
especially valuable to that conversation and to that opportunity. Great question, So, Carlos,
most of the things that we do start as a
subculture in my not be a subculture to us. Right.
Think about hip hop. Everybody had an on Go Learn
(19:05):
Auntie that jacked out those records and eventually became the
biggest pop culture for phenomena of our time. Right, it's
taken fifty years, but it's not a conversation whether hip
hop is for the world anymore. Every country has a
local rapper at this point. Right, there's not one Swedish
(19:26):
rapper in Sweden anymore. That's five Swedish rapper, you know
what I mean. But it started in the basement, somewhere
in the Bronx went to Queen's Brooklyn etcetera. Right, the
same thing goes for most subculture that we start. Think
about house music from Detroit and Chicago, and he go
in Las Vegas today house DJ. He gets paid more
(19:48):
than anyone else in that casine, Right, and it's taken
forty years to build that culture. So our culture starts
very often a subculture, but becomes the thing that very
often reaches the world. You think, but in your in
your green room today, there's probably coconut water. Right, So
things like coconut water. You and I would go on
the road and we drive from mobile to the grill
(20:11):
in Jamaica. There will be hundreds of guys just chucking
up the coconut, but they would not necessarily have the
marketing or the next steps funderstand how do I package
and market this so it becomes a really health product
in the States. Right. So there's a lot of things
that are coconut water in our culture. I think about
(20:32):
a look at Rastafari cultureil cookie for example, vegetarian and
so on, no butter and so on. Right, there's so
many things in Africa when we think about super foods
that very often bringa and so on that comes from Africa.
But yet it has not. It's not always Africa that
packages and sends it to the West. It could go
(20:55):
through France. You can go through a beout. You probably chocolate,
it's probably the best example of that. Right. Well, we
see the label Belgian chocolate you can now started selling
at Whole Food for versus really the right label for
that the chocolate from Ghana because that's where it comes from. Right,
So we missed that opportunity and that's for me. It
(21:16):
is linked to racism, it's linked to trade. This links
to my sub communication. So there's very often we have
sustainability in our cultures, in our veins. Yet no one
on our side have put it, given us the value
proposition to it, nor looked at it as a as
a billion dollar industry. Right So for me, now through
(21:39):
technology and through social media, it's a new era. You
can start that Marina company and sell green juice from
Lagos to New York and you can communicate it through TikTok. Right,
So we now entered that bitcoin economy with that different economy.
So I do think that the next chapter are of
(22:00):
Green can definitely be there's a link between green and black. Oh,
I really like that. So so market for people who
are feel like they are new to the sustainability conversation.
They were saying, Marcus, I'm just starting to pay attention.
I love what you're sharing here. What tell them two
or three things that they should pay attention to. What
are two or three of the most interesting things you've
(22:21):
seen in this conversation. And you already have given us
a half dozen, So I'm not ignoring those, but but
but but I'm asking freshly for people who, now you've
got their attention, hit them with a couple of other things. Carlos,
you know, probably seventy five years ago, it's very weird
that's someone somebody went still to this day, that first
(22:41):
day when somebody walked in the refrigerated to someone's home.
What is that? Right? And we think about it. Everyone
understands that that's obviously given in the West society today,
I think we're five to ten years from growing things
on a shell right next to the refrigerator. Right. There's
(23:02):
tons of companies that either grow hyd group podics right now.
But the fact I think about the weed industry right, well,
what's going to happen when the weed industry because even
more tech and let's say people don't grow weed. People
Let's see people grow basil or letters for example. Like
there's a company called farmshell and er er arm and
all of these parts. So that where technology means meats food,
(23:26):
we're only the beginning of that conversation. I don't think
it's gonna be strange. Let's say if a company like
LG would have one shelf or you cannot grow far
grow your herbs in your refrigerator. Right, we're not far
away from that. The technology is there. Why is that important?
Because it forces us all to eat better, less waste
(23:49):
carbo footprint we talked about, right, But then also think
about a five year old growing up. Then I know
what basic she smelled like. They don't know what kills
would she look like, and they don't have to. So
when you think about these places where we have food
apart tack, where you can't get to food, you can
grow it yourself in your refrigerator. So that's really where
technology and opportunities are met. You can now get the
(24:11):
pricing on that low enough. Now you have a product
that you can mass out all over the world that
is beautiful and wild and just makes a ton of sense,
and it's a part of a lot of things that
are more self service. Now you no longer may get
a newspaper, you may get it digitally. And and that
is such an interesting thought that you might be able
to grow your food, not just order it from Amazon,
(24:33):
but you may be able to and we do in
New Comus. We're doing it all right in my restaurant.
Walk into a red rooster. The first thing people look
at is my farm show where we grow. We grow
everything purple based, sol type based and whatever you want.
The grossing there and I said, I know you're staring
at and it looks weird. This will be in your household.
(24:53):
I don't know if it's forty eight months, sixty seventy
two months, but this will happen, right. It's almost like
when somebody looked at the boom box for the very
first time. And now the boom box essentially your iPhone, right,
And it's that transformation. And because of technology, we can
do this so much faster today. But Marcus, if you
don't already, we need to start a food tech venture
(25:15):
fund together. Yeah, I mean you have me as a believer.
I think I think that is a game changer, and
I think I think you were right that people are
going to think about eating differently, eating healthier, that there's
more ways to use technology. And I loved your Africa analogy,
the idea of you know, potentially cutting out multiple steps
(25:38):
and more directly bringing bringing magic. I like to call
it magic bringing magic. Uh two people. Um, I think
it could be really really interesting there. There could be
a fascinating opportunity to facilitate more uh interesting entprene I
mean I always think about when I look at what
Elon Musk is doing. It's fast amy right, but I
(26:00):
would love for him to talk to him about getting
that rocket between Legos and New York instead. Because we
get that rocket between Legos and New York, think where
you can put on that thinking you can shorten that
time and think how incredible well you would be able
to ship things back and forth and that would change
the economy of Africa like that, man, I love I
(26:25):
love that. What a what a big thought that the
old days with editorial cartoons, that'd be a great editorial cartoons.
What if instead of doing this as you said, we
did that and uh and what that would mean? Mark's
(26:55):
talking more about what's going on with you though, because
what a bold thing that you did in terms of
opening up Red Rooster in Miami, kind of taking what
had been so successful in Arlem and bringing it down
to Miami. And again, this has been such a change
era that we've been in. Where do you go to
from here? You ever coming out west or you? Uh,
you know, how are you thinking about about where you
(27:16):
go from here? Well? You know there is We've been
very fortunate and successful in Miami due to the community,
due to our staff that worked through the pandemic. We
opened and close during the pandemic, but then we opened
were back again because the staff was like, no, we're
gonna do this. So I'm just like you, Carlos, I've
never done anything on my own. You do it with
(27:38):
the tribe that you work with, and punch harder, You
work hard, and you know you got a bunch of
fact that you get back up again. So we're very
very fortunate. Uh. Now, I look at opportunities for Red
Rooster predominantly where there's been historical African American cities like Atlanta, Detroit, Oakland. Uh.
(27:58):
But it has to be the right community of the
right fit, and also it's got to be a little
bit of a tech opportunity there, right, Because I do
think you can't just build a restaurant an idea like
Red Roots there without not talking to uh tech community
because tech lot it or not are essentially that part
(28:18):
of the problem and part of the solution for the
next generation. Right, So what what could be better than
to really set up a restaurant in the community and
bring them into the dining room every day and have
these conversations that where you and I are talking, because
every time you have a conversation, they want to be
part of the solution. And sometimes it's just it's issues
(28:39):
around food that they're not aware of, not because they're
not good people, it's just like no one has brought
it to them like that. So I always feel like
it's better to be there and break bread and listen
to them and they can they can listen to what
we have to say. As from Mark is that I
love the way that you're talking about that and imagine
that in Silicon Valley, in d C, in in Atlanta,
(29:03):
in um. You know where I think is really becoming
important in culture and shaping world is Houston. I don't
know what they have got going on down in Houston,
but they are such amazing people are coming out of
that city across so many different dimensions. And I feel
like we hear about Atlanta in l A, in the
(29:24):
Bay Area and other places, but I feel like Houston
is going to be the place we're talking about in three,
four or five years. That's interesting you say that, I
completely agree. It's it's most people don't know that, if
not the I think it's the most diversity in America,
by the way, Right's right there, and it's diversity. It's
very interesting, right because for example, you have a huge
Nigerian population in US, right, And Nigerian you have a high,
(29:48):
high education educated population for example, right. So you then
you have of course Vietnamese, and then you have Mexican
American so that so their level of the and Indian
population too, right. So you have very interesting mashup of people.
Plus you have of course a couple of big economies there. Uh.
That makes it feel very interesting city. Yeah, yeah, we
(30:10):
have we have more to talk about. I think I
think that notion of a special kind of not just
restaurant but al you're almost saying, kind of convener and
cultural cultural center in Silicon Valley, if done right, could be.
Um could be disruptive in the best possible way. Could
could could be illuminating, um Um, could be could be
(30:34):
really impactful, could be could could be different? Um. You
know I always love finishing up with a little rapid fire.
You mind if I do a little rapid fire with you? Okay? Ready?
All right? What's your favorite karaoke song? What? What would
I be listening to? Oh? You always gotta go with
me and you gotta go Swedie, she gotta go like
(30:54):
Europe the final countdown because no one knows that it's
a Swedish band. It's it's Clad rock right, Look his
bad hair. And if you're upset or angry to say
it that you don't like that song, come on a
little final countdown. It always cuts nice. I have a
(31:14):
whole list, by the way, I could go. It could
have been Darlly and Kenny as well. But when you know,
you gotta get that's two thirty. I love it. I
love it. That is all kinds of good. Um. What's
your favorite late night spot that you don't own? Like
if you needed a little late night meal somewhere in
the world, where's your favorite little late night spot? It's
funny you say that, I um, it had nothing to
(31:37):
do with food, and you know, it's just a couple
of me and my friends were just talking about Tony
Bourdan and how much we miss him, and his documentary
just came out, and every now and then you used
to get the call from Tony said meet me on
two and eight, you know, in New York City, and
(31:57):
I knew what happened. Then he would take us a
couple of chefs, He picked some chefs, took us to
his clubs called suber Area, and depending on the night
it was, people could be in character right. And of
course he knew that he didn't tell us and he
just dropped us in there. Close the door, bas because
once you got in, he was gone already and he
(32:18):
was somewhere else and just walking in your young pup
in New York City and you just like, it's that
at least my favorite thing to do. And obviously I
can never call him and ask him to please take
me there, because if you do that, you're off the list.
You just have to basically wait by the phone Tony
come and he's like, go over to suber Area. It
was crazy, it was magical. It was exactly why you
(32:40):
want to move to New York City. All right, what's
the most fun thing you do with your little fella?
Oh my god, spending spending the time we've bent. We
would just have a boarding this past weekend, just getting
up on the board and paddling away, and you know,
I think next week and he might not need me
anymore right now, and I'm dad on the second paddle
(33:01):
like behind him. He's like, no, alone, alone, I don't
need you to so uh, you know that it's been
a lot of fun watching him not being able to swim,
to swim, to be on the paddle board. Oh my god,
you know, it's been fun. What's the last mistake you've
made or regret you've had as as a chef and
(33:23):
as an entrepreneur, and as someone who often has either
looked up to or is in charge or its responsible
for a kitchen or a restaurant or a business or
a show. What's the last mistake that really you know
what I mean, it's kind of stayed with you and
you're like, damn it, I wish I hadn't done that. Yeah,
I mean there's several, but I would say on a
personal side, not being able to hash out my father
(33:49):
died so young for me, like he was six two
and I was twenty three, and I've left at that
point already. I left at eighteen, started traveler words. We
never really had a chance two, you know, share things
as fully grown adults, right, And I missed so many
conversations and it took its taking me a long time
(34:10):
for you know, sometimes I wake up in the middle
of the night and find myself talking to my dad
and it's just just something that always messed with me.
Mistakes in terms of professionally, I think so many things
happened to me early on in my career, and it
was some talent driven that I could have triate the
people better. You know, I came up where people were
(34:32):
yelling and screaming. I knew that I didn't want to
become that chef. But you can also be mean by
not yelling and screaming, you know what I mean? So
I would say I I I learned a lot from
she just passed away two years ago, Miss lead Chase
in New Orleans, and she was always firm with people,
but she was also very nice to people. And when
(34:56):
I was in the kitchen with her and watched her
managing the kitchen. I always like, damn, not only that
it's a gumbo better than mine, also like, it's so
nice to know because she knew where the kids, when
their kids went to school, things like that that I
never at my twenty seven one year old self, thirty
two year old self never bothered to ask right. It
(35:18):
was just all about what are we doing right here,
right now? And she knew like when that servant had
grandkids and all of that stuff. So so Leah lived
a richer, a fuller life that when I was capable
of doing at that point, you know, if we ended
up doing. There's so many good biopics these days that
people are doing. It's when they do a biopic on
(35:38):
your life. What's are the title the biopic b yes chef,
no chef? We interest? You know why that? Why is
yes chef, no chef? That's good because that's really I mean, yes,
if it's what you're saying hammered into my head constantly,
and no chef is you know, it's a bad idea?
(35:59):
Is that aside him? You know? Because with no chef
it's also so many ideas that when you tried right
that you thought it was fantastic, but maybe they weren't
that great, right, And there's always someone in the rooms
like chef that's not a good idea, And I always
loved that person. And then like who's bringing up who's
saying no? And I'm like, no, that's really good that
(36:21):
she said that, you know what I mean? So no,
chef is even more important than yes, Yef I love.
I love both of those. And who should play you?
If they decided to make this a scripted drama? Who
should play you? Oh my god? You know someone I
always like is Anthony Mackie because he's been in the
restaurant industry, right, He's had bars in New York and
(36:43):
he's out here in New York to see him, and
he's always been in the restaurants. I think I apply
would be would did a good job. You know, we
just got to give him that African accent. I love it.
I love it, And I mean he's a great actor.
I love him um And he has a great voice too,
he I would Yesterday I was trying to think, who
is this successor to Keith David because Keith David has
(37:04):
that really distinctive voice and when he narrates something, whether
it's for Ken burns or whether it's for thirty for
thirty and grabs your attention. And I think your boy Anthony,
maybe that guy he's got that he's got that voice,
that um that calls you if it if it were
on and you weren't paying attention, you would pay attention.
He's got he's blessed with with with something beautiful? Uh?
(37:27):
In that um A finish up for me? With dreaming fearlessly,
You've not only dream fearlessly, but you've had so many
dreams realized what would be the next big dream that
you would love to see come true? What would bring
you joy, satisfaction, surprise? Uh? What would what would make
you grateful? What? What would be the next big dream?
I am such an optimist because you have to win
(37:50):
in the restaurant industry. Uh. I just would be so
excited when we have the full story ship to the pandemic, right,
because I think the pandemic disguised a lot of other
things that are part of our anxieties as well. Right.
But I think when the day when we have that,
(38:12):
we realized that all things are not solved anyway, right,
But it's the beginning to start talking about all the
other things. That you kind of see coming out of
the pandemic, some people, some families are doing better because
they're spending more time together, right, And that the reality
(38:34):
in that is that why did it have to take
the pandemic for us to do that? Right? So the
pandemic has sort of pull the curtain away from a
lot of different things, but also brought families together. Right,
it's not for me. Can we go move forward and
be showing a little bit more compassion, But I just
(38:55):
want us to have a solution for the pandemic that
does not only cover that it's over for in the
West and the rich countries in the world, but it's
not going to be over until it really encompasses all
over the world. Sometimes we think we can move on
because Europe and America saw it or some part of Asia. No,
(39:15):
if you almost have to solve it the other way,
you almost have to go to the poorer nations first
saw them that way, and then we can fix it.
And and it's sad to me that we don't see
that because of me. It's quite obvious that the largest
parts of the world, the largest country population countries in
the world, are still hurting. The fact that they're not
giving you the numbers, doesn't mean it's not happening. You know,
(39:37):
it's so powerful that you're saying that, and you're making me.
I I don't know if I told you before, but
I love listening to old speeches, whether it's or or
old audio. So it might be of an old boxing match,
or might be an old press conference. And I happened
listen to a lot of old speeches by Dr King,
not just his most famous speech, but lots of them.
And he's got one where he's in the church where
(39:57):
he's talking about the fact that, uh, the nuclear race
has really brought America at that point and brought the
world to a place where we all could be doomed,
and so that we have to actually be more engaged
with the rest of the world in a different way.
And and he says the demands forced us to pay
(40:18):
attention to our brothers and sisters in a way that
maybe we hadn't. And the question is whether the pandemic
um if we remain optimists, and if we use it.
Use it's the wrong way to say it, but but
if if it if it's able to generate some good things, um,
if it can make us more collectively aware. Um. That's
an interesting point that you raise, because it won't be done,
(40:39):
it'll it'll keep circling back, would come circling back. But
I also think even the way you are, we're struggling
finding the words for how because obviously no one is
out here celebrating, and that's not what we're talking about.
We're just talking throughout how can we think about this
moment in almost in a way that what good can
we learn from this? And how go move forward? And
it's fascinating that you talk that because Martin's King gave
(41:03):
that speech probably sixty five sixty six, you know, like
post sput Nick and and the way he's going back
and forth with Russia and America. So we are union
in America at that point, and he probably thought five
years later those things would have been solved, right, And
here we are fifty five years later, nowhere at all.
(41:27):
I mean, the question is how much you can gain
and how much you can learn? Right. Um, that's a
perfect place to leave it. Um uh amen. It's so
nice to to see you and be with you again.
Thank you. Um. You have the rare distinction. This is
the first time we've ever had somewhere on the show twice,
so uh so, thank you for being that person. Thank you, Carlos,
and and thank you for all that you're doing and
(41:48):
keep asking hard questions and keep it us engaged. I
think your marketing team is doing a great job. I
see your blaster all over Miami and it's great when
people are watching the show. That's awesome. Great job. And
congratulation to union team. Oh man, hey, thank you, thank you,
thank you. Hope I get to see you in person, absolutely,
thank you. All right, all right, be safe, Thank you, brother.
I appreciate you. See you soon. I'd be safe. Okay.
(42:24):
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Carlos
Watson Show podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave
us a review where I really listen to your podcast.
Marcus Samuelson is one of the most recognizable names in
the restaurant industry. The Ethiopian Swedish chef has appeared on
the Food Network shows like Chopped, Beat, Bobby Play, and
Chop Jr. Now he's back on the Carlos Watson Show
podcast to talk all things sustainability and what the future
holds for him and his restaurant, Red Rooster. Hey man, Hey,
(00:33):
how are you good? How you doing? Studio looks good? Oh? Man?
You know what, We've done some good stuff on it,
and uh, we might even try and we thought when
the world was getting healthy, we were going to try
and do some in person stuff. So I actually was
going to talk to you about some in person stuff
in New York in Miami, but it feels like everything's
gotten tossed in the air. Agat. Yeah, please tell me
(00:54):
about it. Yeah yeah, yeah. Are you in Miami or
New York? Where you coming this week? Um? And then
I add to Miami next week, So I'll go back
and forth basically. And what's been like in Miami? Have
you been there when the Delta has been hot? Uh?
Not yet. I got out a couple of weeks ago.
So now it's the first time I go back, it's
(01:15):
it's tough, it's tough, yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And what's
what are you finding in your restaurants? Are you finding
that everybody is getting vaccinated or you find lots of
hesitancy or like what's you're because you haven't you have
multiple population sets geographically, socioeconomically, racially, age wise, like you
(01:37):
have a more interesting you know, based too to reflect on.
So I would say in starting Quebec and I go
to East Court, coast down, I would say in Quebec,
Montreal and New York very high everybody gets vaccinated. Um,
ready to go back in dining all of that stuff.
(02:00):
Then as we are in Florida, Bahamas, you have, um,
everything happens outside, right, everything is outside. So the very
different lifestyle right versus you think about even even summertime
cities like New York, Montreal, you start with the inside
and then you might go outside of the patio. I
(02:22):
would say in Bahamas standing even Miami, the way we are,
everything starts outside and then you might end up inside.
So it's just a very different way of thinking about
UM lifestyle choice. It's right, and obviously that we're trying
to get everybody we can vaccinated, but also know that
it's a very personal choice for people. And I wish
(02:47):
there was one solution, one answer, right, but it's not
so in this time. This is a very if last
year was just difficult, this year is a stop that starts.
It's a new chat, allunge, and we still don't have
the solution. Right. We have the vaccine that has helped
a lot, and we have obviously the information that is
(03:08):
out that helps a lot, but then we still haven't
found this full solution yet. So it's it's tough. Do
you find yourself nervous? Are you are you personally nervous
about catching COVID or have you already had COVID? We
have not had COVID in my family, but a lot
of people in my extended family, both in restaurants and
in my community. Then my uncle passed away in COVID.
(03:32):
My young nephew in Sweden had COVID and you know,
it's twenty five six is very strong, but about a
lasting COVID over four or five months, you know, like
so he he just got back in June and it
lasted for about on and off for about five six months.
And that was tough. You know, it's very, very difficult.
So I've I've lost friends, I've had people have COVID
(03:55):
with no not having even the experienced one thing, and
family members that I so I've all of the book,
you know, but of course I'm afraid of it, and
I respected makes me nervous, makes me nervous when you know,
playing with my son that just runs towards people and
hugs people and stuff like that like any five year
old would do, right, It just makes me nervous. Yeah, yeah,
(04:19):
Marcus is as funny as I'm talking to you here,
and I'm in so many conversations you and I have
are playing back in my head, and I'm thinking about
what an interesting entering is the wrong word, But but
what a time this has been, the last year plus.
Do you think you've changed fundamentally in that time? And
I'm not searching for a particularly answer, but I'm just
(04:40):
literally curious. Have you changed meaningfully you think over the
last year and a half in anyway? I would like
to think that the answer is yes. You know, maybe
it's too soon to talk about that, but I can
talk about acknowledging my privilege to be able to work
and be able to have access to healthcare right, things
that maybe I took for granted before. I've definitely noticed
(05:01):
in my friends group that we are appreciating when we
can get together, even if it's just on a zoom
because you know this, this is this is uh, just
appreciative and starting to see what has come out of
COVID them maybe we didn't have before. So I definitely
spent more time with my family, with my wife and
my son. I was there when my son started to
(05:23):
swim and started to buy it. Also things that I
could have guaranteed you that I would have missed otherwise,
right to the value proposition um. And also thinking you
know a lot about ah, focusing on what's important for us.
It's been spending time with the family, making sure that
my son is in nature and the fact that we
(05:44):
can take him to the water or be in nature,
because playing in in big New York City, um, you
know hearts with back to people is not that attractive
for us, right, so we just have to think about
what can we do, Where can we go where we
can have great experiences for him and maybe just form
(06:05):
less people around us. How do you think about politics?
I mean, what was watching obviously Cuomo resign and politics
have been so volatile over the last year and a half,
and uh, names we never knew have entered the arena,
like Marjorie Taylor Green and Jamal Bowman and other people,
(06:26):
um uh, people who you know you weren't sure ever
would leave the scene, like Cuomo, maybe even like Trump,
um uh in one way or another or less present.
You know, we had, in my mind a surprising Democratic primary.
Joe Biden went from nowhere to not only the nomination
with the presidency. How do you how are you? And
(06:47):
I know you love politics and you value politics and
that you think about politics policy, So that's that's obviously
why I'm asking how do you think Biden is doing?
And when it comes to politics, what are you paying
attention to right now? Well, that's a great question. Pay
attention because there's a lot of noise and then there's
a stuff right matters, And I think that something like
(07:09):
Jamal Bowman something the fact that New York City is
going to get a new mayor and a new governor
at the same year in these difficult times, right, that
is super important, right And the fact that they are
now I'm gonna they didn't know each other that much,
probably before, but now they have to get to know
each other because they're really partners, right at A governor
(07:31):
of New York State and the mayor of New York
City or truly partners in any good good. The better partnership,
the better for the state and of the city. Right.
So I'll watch that, and I mean fortunate enough to
sit down with the mayor elect and looking forward to
you know, his challenges and working on and with the city. Right.
It's very important for especially in my industry as person.
(07:53):
You know, when you're a black chef and an immigrant
come into this country, you have to knowledge to policies
that was as I know how people fought for it,
like our parents generations are grandparents generation, you know, they're
really the people that laid the groundworks for someone like
(08:13):
me being fortunate being black and being an immigrant. So
I've been the benefit of all the hard work during
civil rights movement and post that. So that's also one
of the reason why I would feel like paying the
tax of normal tax payer, but also paying the tax
of UM being there for people that are trying to
(08:35):
make UM black and by park uh lives and businesses better.
I have to have to be part of those conversations. Right. Uh,
there's a lot of noise, so um you know that stuff.
I don't. I don't try to pay attention to you
because you mentioned a couple of people that has been elected,
(08:57):
and for me, they're not I respect the fact that
they're being elected, but that's not politics or policies, bace,
that's just noise and sound bites. For maybe the real
aim is to work for Fox News or something like that. Right,
the way they use the platform of Congress to get
to the next end go right, and that for me,
(09:20):
they're not really full into politics. It's just noisy, you know,
because the statements has nothing to do with improving for people.
It's just how can I be loud and build the
Twitter or on Instagram following so I can go to
the next stense. And I think it's sad to see
that high offices public offices are being used as bridges
(09:42):
and tunnels for the next gig. You know, that's sad
to me. Do you how much how much do you
find yourself Marcus talking to Trump supporters? Do you find
that among your friendship group or your business associates, or
your employees or colleagues or others that you have many
Trump associates in your life or supporters, because I've lived
all over the world and I know being black it's
(10:06):
the starting point and a question mark for a lot
of people, especially when you grew up in a country
like Sweden, where there's probably people a little more passive
in terms of their views, but they could be very
aggressive with it in a quieter setting. Right, So I'm
not naive the things that and why should people have
the same view everywhere? That wouldn't create American that wouldn't
(10:28):
be a dynamic situation. So the fact that people have
different point of views than me, I welcome that. That's
how we have moved forward with all great ideas. It's
a it's a hell of battle back and forth. That's
how you get great ideas. Yet, right, So if someone
is just pure Republican because that's what they've been in
their country, in the family, and that's truly their belief formed, great,
(10:51):
That's that's a different thing. If someone thinks that um
generally six was technique in the park, there's nothing I
can say to that person because whatever I'm gonna say
to that person, they're not gonna believe, right. So I
try to put this bucket to each your Republican great
(11:13):
and it's just we can go back and forth on
ideas and ideology. I welcome that and I'll learned something
in that process, right, um So, And I also know
that you should go back in history. Republicans will actually
in the beginning the people that helped African American people
more than Democrats. So there's this history of Democrats Republicans
(11:36):
to go back and forth when it comes to um
being a supporter of the former president. You know that
that's you know that person there time to their opinion.
They're gonna have their opinion. It does not matter at
all whatever Sweetie opium like me gonna tell that person.
Oh I love that, sweetie opiate. I don't. I'm sure
(11:56):
you use that before, but I haven't heard that, and
I loved it. Um. In fact, I've been telling people
how much when we had our last conversation, and I
really realized how fortunate you've been to touch the world
in meaningful ways, meaning born in Africa, raised in Europe,
trained in Asia, and living and training in North America,
(12:17):
and with you know, opportunities and touch points all over
the globe that and maybe a more a live way
than most of us. You you really do have a
global perspective to be very fortunate. Yeah, I met I
met some great mentors. I've had some great people that
really guided me through this thing called life and hasn't
always been easy, but it's always been I've always had fun,
(12:40):
I've always worked hard, and I've always been realized that
really fortunate to be in that room, whatever that movement is,
whether it's a basement kitchen or whether it's been a
a C suite somewhere, you know, most of the time
is you got to solve a problem. We work together.
We have a higher chance do it if we work
(13:00):
together as a team, and it's really fun solving that problem,
whatever it might be. If we do it together, you
know that those things doesn't change. And guess what, when
people do it, they're really good at it. But we
do want to work together, really good. Even if I
have different starting points of different opinions. I'm sure you
and I can talk about whether you know Messy it's
(13:25):
better than Ronaldo, what did that mean? Or Lebraun was
better than Michael It means that we both enjoy basketball
and soccer. And we're gonna have philosophical differences on who
and why, right, But the end of the day, we
love the sports and the culture and if we look
at saim from that point of view. Right. And also
on top of that, respect science, but respect knowledge. Why
(13:47):
have we come to the point where we don't respect knowledge?
You know what I mean in science? And like for me,
it's not a coincident anymore that look at Sicily, they're
the highest highest temperature ever California importunate and the West
is burning and you know it happens now it gets
(14:07):
hotter and hotter and contral like Sweden and Norway, whether
you don't want to call that global warming, pick your
word for it, but like we have to take big
care of our environment right this. You cannot be on
two sides of that, Like, it's only one side to
be on. It's the right side. Say more about that,
(14:43):
because I was both happy and I don't know why
I was surprised, but I was surprised when the team
said that you were excited to talk about sustainability. Say
more about what's brought you to to the topic and
how it has played out in your life. Yeah, I
think it's full circle. I think I I don't know
if even if sustainability and the right word. I feel
like it's a little bit like the facts machine is
(15:05):
something that we're using now and then in twenty years
we might not use that word anymore. Because you want
to re injure engineers, you want to read, You want
to come up with something that is better than that
sustained or sustain really goes back to hold its the
same and and you want to come up with just
the version that it's a little bit better. Right. And
also think as a chef, I have to look at
(15:27):
myself and look at my community because we are game
changes at this point. Right. Think about a restaurant cardless right.
It is a place where with the three marketplaces that
meets in one. There is the team, the cooks, the
service that you teach and bringing new ingredients. There is
the preveyors that growses, and then there's you, the customer
(15:51):
and the audience. But once it comes into a restaurant,
it becomes almost like a sport. You're becoming a participating
sport where everyone is asking, oh, they're using ramps here,
I wonder where they came from, or they're using truffles here,
I wonder where they came from, and eventually the customer's
behavior want to take those ingredients home and start cooking better.
So that means that now the consumer product of this
(16:13):
it's going to increase. Right. That means that it matters
how do we grow it? Where was the carbon footprint
from us? How do we get it to us? Right?
And it does it on a large scale. So you
can look at where was fishing in the world circa
nineteen and where it is today. Well, that's also picked
to huge increase in MEDDA class, but it's also paged
(16:35):
to the fact that people need sushio all over the world. Right,
So fish is being out fished, right, So whatever we
if I communicate my several hundred thousand followers, I know
that percentage of them will use that right. So it's
an opportunity and a challenge for me to make sure
I guide it in the right direction. What I buy
(16:57):
in my restaurant, that I have those habits as what
I preach with my crew, right. So sustainability is not
something for them, whoever them are they are, It's really
something for us, me and you that we all can
really be part of being a game changer, particularly when
you work in a big country like America, China and
(17:19):
India and you know that you're setting trends and behavior
patterns that eventually will change. Right. So, for example, I
was given the youth challenge and opportunity and credible um
challenge to create curate the medical at at the New
York City so people can look at that it's a
fashion event. It's more than that, it's also saying to
(17:40):
you the world New York City is back for events. Right.
So I so our team we pick and decided to
do a plant based menue because we know that once
Vogue talks about it and the world talks about it,
the ideal plant based comes, you know, becomes a fashion
and conversation all over the world. Right. So for me,
(18:01):
the actions that we do and the way we broadcast
it has massive impact. It's very important as a chef
in New York City, as black chef in New York
City that sustainability and green is not something that only
happens in vite conversation. It happens in our spaces as well.
Would say more about what you think we as black
(18:22):
people bring distinctly or or maybe especially valuably to the
sustainability conversation or whatever the right word is. I like
the fact that you question whether or not sustainability is
the right long term word. But but, but, but but
what do you think we in particular bring. I like
that you're saying that, and it's it's reminding me of
a conversation I recently had with people about bitcoin or
(18:44):
or about crypto and what black people may bring that's
especially valuable to that conversation and to that opportunity. Great question, So, Carlos,
most of the things that we do start as a
subculture in my not be a subculture to us. Right.
Think about hip hop. Everybody had an on Go Learn
(19:05):
Auntie that jacked out those records and eventually became the
biggest pop culture for phenomena of our time. Right, it's
taken fifty years, but it's not a conversation whether hip
hop is for the world anymore. Every country has a
local rapper at this point. Right, there's not one Swedish
(19:26):
rapper in Sweden anymore. That's five Swedish rapper, you know
what I mean. But it started in the basement, somewhere
in the Bronx went to Queen's Brooklyn etcetera. Right, the
same thing goes for most subculture that we start. Think
about house music from Detroit and Chicago, and he go
in Las Vegas today house DJ. He gets paid more
(19:48):
than anyone else in that casine, Right, and it's taken
forty years to build that culture. So our culture starts
very often a subculture, but becomes the thing that very
often reaches the world. You think, but in your in
your green room today, there's probably coconut water. Right, So
things like coconut water. You and I would go on
the road and we drive from mobile to the grill
(20:11):
in Jamaica. There will be hundreds of guys just chucking
up the coconut, but they would not necessarily have the
marketing or the next steps funderstand how do I package
and market this so it becomes a really health product
in the States. Right. So there's a lot of things
that are coconut water in our culture. I think about
(20:32):
a look at Rastafari cultureil cookie for example, vegetarian and
so on, no butter and so on. Right, there's so
many things in Africa when we think about super foods
that very often bringa and so on that comes from Africa.
But yet it has not. It's not always Africa that
packages and sends it to the West. It could go
(20:55):
through France. You can go through a beout. You probably chocolate,
it's probably the best example of that. Right. Well, we
see the label Belgian chocolate you can now started selling
at Whole Food for versus really the right label for
that the chocolate from Ghana because that's where it comes from. Right,
So we missed that opportunity and that's for me. It
(21:16):
is linked to racism, it's linked to trade. This links
to my sub communication. So there's very often we have
sustainability in our cultures, in our veins. Yet no one
on our side have put it, given us the value
proposition to it, nor looked at it as a as
a billion dollar industry. Right So for me, now through
(21:39):
technology and through social media, it's a new era. You
can start that Marina company and sell green juice from
Lagos to New York and you can communicate it through TikTok. Right,
So we now entered that bitcoin economy with that different economy.
So I do think that the next chapter are of
(22:00):
Green can definitely be there's a link between green and black. Oh,
I really like that. So so market for people who
are feel like they are new to the sustainability conversation.
They were saying, Marcus, I'm just starting to pay attention.
I love what you're sharing here. What tell them two
or three things that they should pay attention to. What
are two or three of the most interesting things you've
(22:21):
seen in this conversation. And you already have given us
a half dozen, So I'm not ignoring those, but but
but but I'm asking freshly for people who, now you've
got their attention, hit them with a couple of other things. Carlos,
you know, probably seventy five years ago, it's very weird
that's someone somebody went still to this day, that first
(22:41):
day when somebody walked in the refrigerated to someone's home.
What is that? Right? And we think about it. Everyone
understands that that's obviously given in the West society today,
I think we're five to ten years from growing things
on a shell right next to the refrigerator. Right. There's
(23:02):
tons of companies that either grow hyd group podics right now.
But the fact I think about the weed industry right, well,
what's going to happen when the weed industry because even
more tech and let's say people don't grow weed. People
Let's see people grow basil or letters for example. Like
there's a company called farmshell and er er arm and
all of these parts. So that where technology means meats food,
(23:26):
we're only the beginning of that conversation. I don't think
it's gonna be strange. Let's say if a company like
LG would have one shelf or you cannot grow far
grow your herbs in your refrigerator. Right, we're not far
away from that. The technology is there. Why is that important?
Because it forces us all to eat better, less waste
(23:49):
carbo footprint we talked about, right, But then also think
about a five year old growing up. Then I know
what basic she smelled like. They don't know what kills
would she look like, and they don't have to. So
when you think about these places where we have food
apart tack, where you can't get to food, you can
grow it yourself in your refrigerator. So that's really where
technology and opportunities are met. You can now get the
(24:11):
pricing on that low enough. Now you have a product
that you can mass out all over the world that
is beautiful and wild and just makes a ton of sense,
and it's a part of a lot of things that
are more self service. Now you no longer may get
a newspaper, you may get it digitally. And and that
is such an interesting thought that you might be able
to grow your food, not just order it from Amazon,
(24:33):
but you may be able to and we do in
New Comus. We're doing it all right in my restaurant.
Walk into a red rooster. The first thing people look
at is my farm show where we grow. We grow
everything purple based, sol type based and whatever you want.
The grossing there and I said, I know you're staring
at and it looks weird. This will be in your household.
(24:53):
I don't know if it's forty eight months, sixty seventy
two months, but this will happen, right. It's almost like
when somebody looked at the boom box for the very
first time. And now the boom box essentially your iPhone, right,
And it's that transformation. And because of technology, we can
do this so much faster today. But Marcus, if you
don't already, we need to start a food tech venture
(25:15):
fund together. Yeah, I mean you have me as a believer.
I think I think that is a game changer, and
I think I think you were right that people are
going to think about eating differently, eating healthier, that there's
more ways to use technology. And I loved your Africa analogy,
the idea of you know, potentially cutting out multiple steps
(25:38):
and more directly bringing bringing magic. I like to call
it magic bringing magic. Uh two people. Um, I think
it could be really really interesting there. There could be
a fascinating opportunity to facilitate more uh interesting entprene I
mean I always think about when I look at what
Elon Musk is doing. It's fast amy right, but I
(26:00):
would love for him to talk to him about getting
that rocket between Legos and New York instead. Because we
get that rocket between Legos and New York, think where
you can put on that thinking you can shorten that
time and think how incredible well you would be able
to ship things back and forth and that would change
the economy of Africa like that, man, I love I
(26:25):
love that. What a what a big thought that the
old days with editorial cartoons, that'd be a great editorial cartoons.
What if instead of doing this as you said, we
did that and uh and what that would mean? Mark's
(26:55):
talking more about what's going on with you though, because
what a bold thing that you did in terms of
opening up Red Rooster in Miami, kind of taking what
had been so successful in Arlem and bringing it down
to Miami. And again, this has been such a change
era that we've been in. Where do you go to
from here? You ever coming out west or you? Uh,
you know, how are you thinking about about where you
(27:16):
go from here? Well? You know there is We've been
very fortunate and successful in Miami due to the community,
due to our staff that worked through the pandemic. We
opened and close during the pandemic, but then we opened
were back again because the staff was like, no, we're
gonna do this. So I'm just like you, Carlos, I've
never done anything on my own. You do it with
(27:38):
the tribe that you work with, and punch harder, You
work hard, and you know you got a bunch of
fact that you get back up again. So we're very
very fortunate. Uh. Now, I look at opportunities for Red
Rooster predominantly where there's been historical African American cities like Atlanta, Detroit, Oakland. Uh.
(27:58):
But it has to be the right community of the
right fit, and also it's got to be a little
bit of a tech opportunity there, right, Because I do
think you can't just build a restaurant an idea like
Red Roots there without not talking to uh tech community
because tech lot it or not are essentially that part
(28:18):
of the problem and part of the solution for the
next generation. Right, So what what could be better than
to really set up a restaurant in the community and
bring them into the dining room every day and have
these conversations that where you and I are talking, because
every time you have a conversation, they want to be
part of the solution. And sometimes it's just it's issues
(28:39):
around food that they're not aware of, not because they're
not good people, it's just like no one has brought
it to them like that. So I always feel like
it's better to be there and break bread and listen
to them and they can they can listen to what
we have to say. As from Mark is that I
love the way that you're talking about that and imagine
that in Silicon Valley, in d C, in in Atlanta,
(29:03):
in um. You know where I think is really becoming
important in culture and shaping world is Houston. I don't
know what they have got going on down in Houston,
but they are such amazing people are coming out of
that city across so many different dimensions. And I feel
like we hear about Atlanta in l A, in the
(29:24):
Bay Area and other places, but I feel like Houston
is going to be the place we're talking about in three,
four or five years. That's interesting you say that, I
completely agree. It's it's most people don't know that, if
not the I think it's the most diversity in America,
by the way, Right's right there, and it's diversity. It's
very interesting, right because for example, you have a huge
Nigerian population in US, right, And Nigerian you have a high,
(29:48):
high education educated population for example, right. So you then
you have of course Vietnamese, and then you have Mexican
American so that so their level of the and Indian
population too, right. So you have very interesting mashup of people.
Plus you have of course a couple of big economies there. Uh.
That makes it feel very interesting city. Yeah, yeah, we
(30:10):
have we have more to talk about. I think I
think that notion of a special kind of not just
restaurant but al you're almost saying, kind of convener and
cultural cultural center in Silicon Valley, if done right, could be.
Um could be disruptive in the best possible way. Could
could could be illuminating, um Um, could be could be
(30:34):
really impactful, could be could could be different? Um. You
know I always love finishing up with a little rapid fire.
You mind if I do a little rapid fire with you? Okay? Ready?
All right? What's your favorite karaoke song? What? What would
I be listening to? Oh? You always gotta go with
me and you gotta go Swedie, she gotta go like
(30:54):
Europe the final countdown because no one knows that it's
a Swedish band. It's it's Clad rock right, Look his
bad hair. And if you're upset or angry to say
it that you don't like that song, come on a
little final countdown. It always cuts nice. I have a
(31:14):
whole list, by the way, I could go. It could
have been Darlly and Kenny as well. But when you know,
you gotta get that's two thirty. I love it. I
love it. That is all kinds of good. Um. What's
your favorite late night spot that you don't own? Like
if you needed a little late night meal somewhere in
the world, where's your favorite little late night spot? It's
funny you say that, I um, it had nothing to
(31:37):
do with food, and you know, it's just a couple
of me and my friends were just talking about Tony
Bourdan and how much we miss him, and his documentary
just came out, and every now and then you used
to get the call from Tony said meet me on
two and eight, you know, in New York City, and
(31:57):
I knew what happened. Then he would take us a
couple of chefs, He picked some chefs, took us to
his clubs called suber Area, and depending on the night
it was, people could be in character right. And of
course he knew that he didn't tell us and he
just dropped us in there. Close the door, bas because
once you got in, he was gone already and he
(32:18):
was somewhere else and just walking in your young pup
in New York City and you just like, it's that
at least my favorite thing to do. And obviously I
can never call him and ask him to please take
me there, because if you do that, you're off the list.
You just have to basically wait by the phone Tony
come and he's like, go over to suber Area. It
was crazy, it was magical. It was exactly why you
(32:40):
want to move to New York City. All right, what's
the most fun thing you do with your little fella?
Oh my god, spending spending the time we've bent. We
would just have a boarding this past weekend, just getting
up on the board and paddling away, and you know,
I think next week and he might not need me
anymore right now, and I'm dad on the second paddle
(33:01):
like behind him. He's like, no, alone, alone, I don't
need you to so uh, you know that it's been
a lot of fun watching him not being able to swim,
to swim, to be on the paddle board. Oh my god,
you know, it's been fun. What's the last mistake you've
made or regret you've had as as a chef and
(33:23):
as an entrepreneur, and as someone who often has either
looked up to or is in charge or its responsible
for a kitchen or a restaurant or a business or
a show. What's the last mistake that really you know
what I mean, it's kind of stayed with you and
you're like, damn it, I wish I hadn't done that. Yeah,
I mean there's several, but I would say on a
personal side, not being able to hash out my father
(33:49):
died so young for me, like he was six two
and I was twenty three, and I've left at that
point already. I left at eighteen, started traveler words. We
never really had a chance two, you know, share things
as fully grown adults, right, And I missed so many
conversations and it took its taking me a long time
(34:10):
for you know, sometimes I wake up in the middle
of the night and find myself talking to my dad
and it's just just something that always messed with me.
Mistakes in terms of professionally, I think so many things
happened to me early on in my career, and it
was some talent driven that I could have triate the
people better. You know, I came up where people were
(34:32):
yelling and screaming. I knew that I didn't want to
become that chef. But you can also be mean by
not yelling and screaming, you know what I mean? So
I would say I I I learned a lot from
she just passed away two years ago, Miss lead Chase
in New Orleans, and she was always firm with people,
but she was also very nice to people. And when
(34:56):
I was in the kitchen with her and watched her
managing the kitchen. I always like, damn, not only that
it's a gumbo better than mine, also like, it's so
nice to know because she knew where the kids, when
their kids went to school, things like that that I
never at my twenty seven one year old self, thirty
two year old self never bothered to ask right. It
(35:18):
was just all about what are we doing right here,
right now? And she knew like when that servant had
grandkids and all of that stuff. So so Leah lived
a richer, a fuller life that when I was capable
of doing at that point, you know, if we ended
up doing. There's so many good biopics these days that
people are doing. It's when they do a biopic on
(35:38):
your life. What's are the title the biopic b yes chef,
no chef? We interest? You know why that? Why is
yes chef, no chef? That's good because that's really I mean, yes,
if it's what you're saying hammered into my head constantly,
and no chef is you know, it's a bad idea?
(35:59):
Is that aside him? You know? Because with no chef
it's also so many ideas that when you tried right
that you thought it was fantastic, but maybe they weren't
that great, right, And there's always someone in the rooms
like chef that's not a good idea, And I always
loved that person. And then like who's bringing up who's
saying no? And I'm like, no, that's really good that
(36:21):
she said that, you know what I mean? So no,
chef is even more important than yes, Yef I love.
I love both of those. And who should play you?
If they decided to make this a scripted drama? Who
should play you? Oh my god? You know someone I
always like is Anthony Mackie because he's been in the
restaurant industry, right, He's had bars in New York and
(36:43):
he's out here in New York to see him, and
he's always been in the restaurants. I think I apply
would be would did a good job. You know, we
just got to give him that African accent. I love it.
I love it, And I mean he's a great actor.
I love him um And he has a great voice too,
he I would Yesterday I was trying to think, who
is this successor to Keith David because Keith David has
(37:04):
that really distinctive voice and when he narrates something, whether
it's for Ken burns or whether it's for thirty for
thirty and grabs your attention. And I think your boy Anthony,
maybe that guy he's got that he's got that voice,
that um that calls you if it if it were
on and you weren't paying attention, you would pay attention.
He's got he's blessed with with with something beautiful? Uh?
(37:27):
In that um A finish up for me? With dreaming fearlessly,
You've not only dream fearlessly, but you've had so many
dreams realized what would be the next big dream that
you would love to see come true? What would bring
you joy, satisfaction, surprise? Uh? What would what would make
you grateful? What? What would be the next big dream?
I am such an optimist because you have to win
(37:50):
in the restaurant industry. Uh. I just would be so
excited when we have the full story ship to the pandemic, right,
because I think the pandemic disguised a lot of other
things that are part of our anxieties as well. Right.
But I think when the day when we have that,
(38:12):
we realized that all things are not solved anyway, right,
But it's the beginning to start talking about all the
other things. That you kind of see coming out of
the pandemic, some people, some families are doing better because
they're spending more time together, right, And that the reality
(38:34):
in that is that why did it have to take
the pandemic for us to do that? Right? So the
pandemic has sort of pull the curtain away from a
lot of different things, but also brought families together. Right,
it's not for me. Can we go move forward and
be showing a little bit more compassion, But I just
(38:55):
want us to have a solution for the pandemic that
does not only cover that it's over for in the
West and the rich countries in the world, but it's
not going to be over until it really encompasses all
over the world. Sometimes we think we can move on
because Europe and America saw it or some part of Asia. No,
(39:15):
if you almost have to solve it the other way,
you almost have to go to the poorer nations first
saw them that way, and then we can fix it.
And and it's sad to me that we don't see
that because of me. It's quite obvious that the largest
parts of the world, the largest country population countries in
the world, are still hurting. The fact that they're not
giving you the numbers, doesn't mean it's not happening. You know,
(39:37):
it's so powerful that you're saying that, and you're making me.
I I don't know if I told you before, but
I love listening to old speeches, whether it's or or
old audio. So it might be of an old boxing match,
or might be an old press conference. And I happened
listen to a lot of old speeches by Dr King,
not just his most famous speech, but lots of them.
And he's got one where he's in the church where
(39:57):
he's talking about the fact that, uh, the nuclear race
has really brought America at that point and brought the
world to a place where we all could be doomed,
and so that we have to actually be more engaged
with the rest of the world in a different way.
And and he says the demands forced us to pay
(40:18):
attention to our brothers and sisters in a way that
maybe we hadn't. And the question is whether the pandemic
um if we remain optimists, and if we use it.
Use it's the wrong way to say it, but but
if if it if it's able to generate some good things, um,
if it can make us more collectively aware. Um. That's
an interesting point that you raise, because it won't be done,
(40:39):
it'll it'll keep circling back, would come circling back. But
I also think even the way you are, we're struggling
finding the words for how because obviously no one is
out here celebrating, and that's not what we're talking about.
We're just talking throughout how can we think about this
moment in almost in a way that what good can
we learn from this? And how go move forward? And
it's fascinating that you talk that because Martin's King gave
(41:03):
that speech probably sixty five sixty six, you know, like
post sput Nick and and the way he's going back
and forth with Russia and America. So we are union
in America at that point, and he probably thought five
years later those things would have been solved, right, And
here we are fifty five years later, nowhere at all.
(41:27):
I mean, the question is how much you can gain
and how much you can learn? Right. Um, that's a
perfect place to leave it. Um uh amen. It's so
nice to to see you and be with you again.
Thank you. Um. You have the rare distinction. This is
the first time we've ever had somewhere on the show twice,
so uh so, thank you for being that person. Thank you, Carlos,
and and thank you for all that you're doing and
(41:48):
keep asking hard questions and keep it us engaged. I
think your marketing team is doing a great job. I
see your blaster all over Miami and it's great when
people are watching the show. That's awesome. Great job. And
congratulation to union team. Oh man, hey, thank you, thank you,
thank you. Hope I get to see you in person, absolutely,
thank you. All right, all right, be safe, Thank you, brother.
I appreciate you. See you soon. I'd be safe. Okay.
(42:24):
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Carlos
Watson Show podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave
us a review where I really listen to your podcast.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.