March 18, 2025 • 51 mins
Carter Rodriguez is joined by Locked on Cavs' Danny Cunningham to recap the Orlando loss, discuss potential weak points in the Cavs offense, weigh in on Evan Mobley's offensive value and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What Carl slammed it?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Oh? Carle left wing reball, perfect handlift block the shot
at the rim? How with the left hand head of fowl.
Hello and welcome to the Chase Down Pod. The Chase
Down is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of
the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of
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(00:26):
There is no cost and there is no commitment. Try
for free at FuboTV dot com Slash Calves. There's also
no Justin Rowan. We got a sick boy, a sick
lad with us. You know. It goes to show the
Calves finally lose a game and he ducks the smoke.
Just kidding. He's actually super bummed because he he loves
(00:46):
being on after losses. He loves a body to dissect.
But no, have no fear. I'm not here alone. You
don't have to hear me drone for forty straight minutes.
We've got host of lockdown Calves and the inside shot
on substack. Danny Cunningham, How you doing, buddy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm well man, Thanks for having me. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Oh? You know, doing fine and dandy going through you know,
doing bedtime solo night. So we're just blasting from thing
to thing to thing, but you know, we're feeling good.
And I was thinking, Danny. I was thinking, because yesterday
we had an afternoon mattin a loss, and those are
always a little weird because you just kind of have
to sit with the rest of the day, you know,
(01:27):
And I was thinking that. You know, so I started
out like, you know, fine with the loss overall, but
then I thought about it more and I was getting grumpy,
and I realized that I am functionally like the president
of a homeowner's association in a nice neighborhood. You know,
I'm looking, I'm really my problems aren't too serious, but
(01:52):
to me they feel serious. You know, it's been such
a weird year where like you just have no sense
there's so little to poke at that like a loss
like that where they had the game well in hand
and then you know, blow it down the stretch does
feel kind of jarring.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It feels so strange to even talk about losses, and
like doing it on my own podcasts, like how do
I approach this? Because the end listen, it's not as
if during this sixteen game winning streak can't sit here
next like every single game that they wondering that streak
was perfect basketball. I think they actually had one of
their worst weeks of the season and they went four
to oh in that week, which is an incredible and
(02:30):
remarkable thing. I think really does speak to their greatness
that they were able to find ways to win games
that they didn't necessarily play their best. But the way
I look at it is they had a really bad
shooting day.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
It doesn't happen to them very often because they're such
a good shooting team and Orlando, a team that's a
pretty awful shooting team, had one of its best shooting
days of the season, and though that combination just sunk
them for an afternoon, Like, I don't think that that
loss is anything that is repeatable.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I don't think it's anything to be worried about.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It think, hey, sometimes when you play these two games,
a game like that's going to happen, and for this
team to be where they're at at fifty six and eleven,
the fact that they haven't had many of those is
kind of incredible to.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, I mean, they are now a lowly forty eight
and one after heading into the fourth quarter with the leads.
You know, I was really by the way talk about,
you know, the small tragedies, I was really excited for
that one to be like, didn't lose a game all year,
heading into the playoffs with the lead in the fourth quarter,
I was excited for them to have that stat in
(03:32):
their back pocket. So, you know, I don't know, it
is one of those things where there's been so few losses,
there's been so few poor like straight up just poor performances,
that it is hard to kind of analyze what's real
and what's not. You know, was this just a shooting
variance loss in your opinion, or do you think there
(03:53):
was some stuff for the Cavs to pull out of it?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I mean, I never I think it's never one thing, right, Like,
if you look can any of the other ten games
they've lost incredible, if you look at those, like, it's
never just one thing that necessarily goes wrong, And anytime
a team loses a game, you can't point to one thing.
I think that the shooting variance is the biggest part
of that because look at some of the shots that
the Calves are able to generate on Sunday, like Sam
(04:17):
Merril had how many three pointers where he could have
kind of checked for wind inside of rocket arena And
those are shots that you're going to expect se him
to make. He's been shooting almost fifty percent on threes
from February first onward, like he's been awesome lately, just
didn't have a great day. Donovan Mitchell goes three or
fourteen from three, you expect Donovan to shoot the basketball
(04:38):
better than that. Like, I think the shooting variance is
the biggest thing. I thought the turnover is certainly the
ones at the end of the third quarter where Ty
loses the ball twice Donovan loses it once, Like that
was I thought a really big swing because Sam had
one of those threes it was in the right corner
that if that goes in, the Calves are up by
eleven with two minutes left in the third quarter.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Instead, that doesn't go in, there's a foul.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The magic split the free throws and then create three
quick turnovers and the game's tied. Like, I think that
is the ultimate sliding doors moment, if you will, of
that game. But I think the shooting is probably the
biggest thing that just went wrong, not to say they
were perfect.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
The ball movement could have been better.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
They haven't played necessarily their best offensive basketball this season.
Last month I think they're fifteenth in March in offense.
But overall, it's just like, you know, if they make
a few shots that we're used to seeing them make
that they've made all season long, they win that game
by ten to fifteen points, and no one even thinks
twice about it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, I do think it is worth kind of keying
in on that turnover Leyden kind of stretch, because I
do think they win the game without it. You know,
a ten er run when you're kind of in firm
control of the game does And you know, I do
think if you're Orlando, you went from we're just hanging
(05:55):
on to we think we can, we think we got
this now? Who can hang? You know? And they've just
had the season from hell. I mean after the forty
point drubbing, I kind of compared their arc to where
this team was a year ago, where you have your
really fun breakout and then you know, the year after
you just have a dump truck of bad luck. Everyone's hurt.
(06:17):
Even when they're playing, they're not hole and all that stuff,
and you know so, I but like there's still a
team that with a lot of pride, especially coming out
of that out of that first round series last year.
And I do think that is kind of where the
game changed. I think mostly gets a lot of credit
for springing in out of nowhere full court press that
I certainly was not ready for, and it certainly didn't
(06:40):
seem the Calves were either. I got to ask, we
have seen more often than not that when the Calves
have trouble, when they are knocked out of their rhythm.
You know, Justin I'll represent my dear sweet co host
who's laid up right now and saying that. You know,
(07:01):
the national media always points to long wings being what
bother the Calves, and Justin has always kind of persisted that, no,
it's ball pressure. The Calves don't like it when people
are up in their grill and how does Orlando turn
this game? It's ball pressure? And like, how much of
that do you think is kind of one of these
flaws that the team just isn't super well built to handle.
(07:24):
How much of that is just Avan not being there
to be an outlet and a release valve when that
pressure comes, Like how much do you index on that
because I still am not sure.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So I think it kind of depends where the ball
pressure is.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Like I view the ninety four feet ball pressure type
of a thing is something that's not super concerning when
the postseason arrives, because you know, and it's happened.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I can count probably four of their.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Losses, the one on Sunday, the one against Indiana, and
both of them against Atlanta where you saw that right
where it is into pressure.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeahertainly the loss. I think that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Exact loss, that exact loss, so fiet I.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Don't think the one in Cleveland where they scored I
think it was one hundred and thirty two points in
a loss necessarily counts against Houston, but the one in
Houston does, and that gave me more so point two. Well,
Darius Carlin missed five free throws, which he's never done
in any other game as a professional basketball player.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That's not going to happen again.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So like there are all these little things, but you
look at the one at home against Indiana, both losses
to Atlanta around Thanksgiving, like he kind of felt like
that was part of the problem there. And I actually
equate struggling with that maybe a little bit more to
a focus type of thing. And I just don't know
that necessarily, for a full forty eight minutes of all
eighty two regular season teams, players are able to stay
(08:45):
completely focused. And I think that when the postseason arrives
that becomes a non issue.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So I just don't know that that's necessarily the thing.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Now, if you want to point to how certain guys
like upper tier perimeter defenders can handle maybe Derry Garland,
maybe Donovan Mitchell in postseason, I think that is a conversation,
particularly when you look at Drew Holliday with the Boston
Celtics and the numbers that he has defending Darius Garland
at times in Garland's career, Like that could be maybe
(09:13):
the thing, But I don't view it as oh man,
Anthony Black really got into tide Rome in the third
quarter of a game in March. The Calves might be
in trouble dealing with ball pressure there. Like I think
that to me is maybe more of a focused thing.
Maybe it's more of a Hey, it was a one
o'clock Sunday game. It was the intensity level at a
playoff level. No, it wasn't like I think that those
things matter when you're having that conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think I think it's
a little bit of column A, a little bit of Columby.
I do think these small guards would much rather, you know,
you hang back and play a conservative defense because they
are one just faster, they can get to the spot
better than your big can and a drop coverage like
(09:55):
they're going to get to that spot. He hit their
float to range, and when you're backpedaling against the calves,
you're just kind of toast because of how well Darius
and Donovan changed directions, to say nothing of the other
supplementary pieces on this team. Whereas when you are kind
of in their grow, when you're pushing them back one,
it gets a little harder for them to let their
(10:17):
tempo kind of control the game. You're kind of imposing
your tempo on them. And then also they're just smaller,
so it's a little bit harder for them to hit that.
You know, that guy in the short role, when you're
making the past thirty three feet from the basket as
opposed to twenty feet from the basket, you know they're
Jared Allen's catching it at the top the three point
arc and has to make three dribbles on the way
(10:39):
to the hoop before he makes a decision instead of
you know, one step and then either a pass or
a floater. So, like, I do think there's something to it.
I do think it's the first thing that teams will
try against them. I just am not sure you know
how to your point, like, I think you're still going
to have to have the right personnel to do it,
(11:02):
and really, like not to oversimplify it always is going
to come down to just how good are you add like,
how many different kind of looks can you throw at
this team? Because I don't think, you know, I don't
think seven games of ball pressure is necessarily the answer.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
No, And I think that's a hard thing for opponents
to keep up for seven games too, because you know,
we look at this as a because it is a
thing that has affected the calves. It's the lens that
we view it through. But how how repeatable is that
To do that seven times in two weeks for forty
eight minutes, Like that's a really difficult thing to do,
especially when the entire game is at a much more
intense level. In the postason because the regular season just
(11:41):
I mean, the effort level is obviously really high from
every team every single night, and that's something that probably
doesn't get talked about enough. But the intensity level isn't
at the same in the regular season it is in
the postseason. It becomes harder to defend full court in
the in the postseason than it doesn't it. You know,
the defense in the half court, I think becomes tougher
in the post, and I think that actually makes it
(12:01):
tougher to pick up full court because you're having to
expend so much energy on every single possession that sometimes defensively,
it might make sense to save that energy and just
defend in the half court because you're gonna have to
do more there.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Anyways, Yeah, it's it's an interesting conundrum, you know, for
this team, and in some ways it does make me
think any that as much as I don't relish the
idea of an Orlando first round series because they're so physical,
because they're so tough, and you know, and for a
team this good, really just you know, there's a bit
(12:34):
of like, let's just get through this first. You know,
Round or two is unscathed as humanly possible. Part of
the reason I'm not crazy excited about playing Giannis in
the second round. Do you think that this is a
this is actually kind of an iron like a wetstone
almost kind of match up for the Calves where if
(12:55):
you do play them in the first round and you
do figure out how to get your off going to
the way it was earlier in the seat in this
season series where the Calves put up one hundred and
twenty points plus in the first two games, if you
can prove that, hey, we you know, your ball pressure
actually doesn't mean anything to us, We're going to get
buckets on you, you think that's more valuable, even if
(13:17):
the series is a little more physical and hard fought
than playing a team like I don't know, like the
Bulls or the Hawks.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I mean, at the end of the day, like in
I think that we learned this during the run from
twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen, where we would just routinely
see this franchise sweep through the first round, and you
want to be able to conserve that energy for second, third,
fourth round playoff games, like you don't want to spend
more time in the first round than you have to.
I actually look at the Orlando matchup as Yes, maybe
(13:47):
that series would be a little bit more physical, but
I look at it as the Magic just don't have
an answer to what the Caves present from a math perspective,
like the Calves are going to shoot way more threes
in the Magic. They're going to make way more threes
than the Magic. So Yesterday's game FO Orlando was the
ninth time this season they've shot forty percent or better
from three in a single game. Like that's just not
(14:09):
something that ever happens. That they are the worst three
point shooting team in basketball. They're not going to be
able to keep up with the Cavs offensively. I think
it would be a really short series because an average
performance from the Cavs on offense is a ten to
fifteen point victory over the Magic's average performance. Like that's
just the way that I view that. Yes, it would
be more physical. I think it would be a good
hump for the Cavs to get over really just to
(14:31):
prove how much different they are. And I understand that
the Magic, as you mentioned, have had a season from health,
like they've not had their full allotment of key players.
Jalen Suggs is not going to come back this year,
like they are a team that is going to look
different if they make the playoffs then they did in
the four to five matchup that we all watched seven
games of last year. But I do think that getting
past that team, particularly in a quick fashion, which I
(14:53):
would expect to happen, I think that would be a
really good sign for this team, just like even if
it's internally feeling we are so much different than we
were last year, Like if they can look in the
mirror and say that after a first round series win
in four or five games as opposed to seven games
that it was last year, I think that could be
a good thing for them.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I think so too, And I do think that the
kind of the personnel that Orlando presents do help you
solve teams like you know, they're going to play a
very similar style to you know, in terms of their
ability to switch, in terms of their ability to close
out on your three point shooters and keep you from
getting your attempts up against teams like Boston. You know,
(15:32):
I'm not as worried about New York and Milwaukee on
the floor, obviously, but like you know, like I do
think there is some value in having a get the
offense going in a tough defensive series kind of thing,
and like to some extent it is like a bit
of a proof of concept, And no matter what data
(15:54):
we see and no matter what tape we see, I
do think every Cavs fan is going to have that
lingering concern in the back of their mind of like,
when the pressure gets ratcheted up and when the scout
gets good and teams are really locked in, is this
Cavs offense going to score at the level they've been
scoring in the regular season or at least in the neighborhood.
(16:15):
Because we're two years in to pretty precipitous dropoffs from
their regular season average in the postseason, I would continue
to argue that last year probably deserves a little bit
more grace than that. I'm not sure any team played
two tougher matchups on the other side of the floor
than Orlando than Boston and very shorthanded versus Boston, mind you,
(16:37):
but like, we still haven't seen this team just go
for a four or five game series put up one
hundred and fifteen, one hundred and twenty five, one hundred
and twenty Like it's been a race to one hundred
for this team in the playoffs. So I do think
there's something I don't know. I kind of go both ways,
because like, it would kind of be nice just to
play Atlanta and just be like, all right, let's just
(16:59):
let's just score, let's just play it, let's just play
our basketball, let's let's play. Let's get a taste of
what focused playoff basketball looks like without any risk of
of of you know, bits and starts in an accidentally
long series.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Right, So I do think it would be to a
good thing for the Caves to play the Magic because
they get that test on the one end of the
floor where you know, we're going to see exactly what
their elite, elite, elite level offense looks like against a
really good defense, and the Magic are still a top
five defense. They haven't necessarily played like a top five
defense since you know, the turn of the calendar to
(17:38):
their best since yes, he has very much changed that team,
I think, on both ends of the floor, like he's
been a big, big absence for them. But I think
that this would be an opportunity for the Caves to
get a taste at playing a really, really good defense
without necessarily being totally threatened on the other end of
the floor, Like Orlando is twenty eighth in offense, They're
(17:58):
not a team that's going to be able to win
race to for the most part, one hundred and ten points.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Like maybe it's not the first to.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
One hundred and twenty five points the way that some
regular season games have been for the Calves, and the
Calves have been since February first, the best defense in basketball.
So that conversation is very much different now than it
was maybe in November or January when.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
They were not playing great defensively.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
But I think that you look at this and say, Okay,
maybe that defense in Orlando is going to find a
way to slow down the Calves a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
But there's maybe they're not scoring one hundred.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And twenty five points a night in the playoffs, but
they're scoring one hundred and seventeen points a night, and
like that, I think against an Orlando offense, which is
a tough watch at times, I think, to put it nicely,
I think that would be more than enough and I
think that would be a confidence builder as saying, Okay,
we might not see a tougher defense in the Eastern
Conference than what we see in the first round against Orlando,
(18:49):
then they can say, and we figure that out, so
now we can figure out anything else for us the way,
whether it's against Milwaukee, Boston, Indie, Detroit, whoever, they could
see the rest of the way in the Eastern Conference
playoffs and then now in the finals. Like, Okay, C's
defense is really really good too, but you worry about
that if and when you get there.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, I think that's fair. And I would rather see
them conquer on the offensive end rather than you know, like,
I don't know if I would learn as much from
a first round series against Chicago where they, you know,
locked down on defense and held Chicago to nothing as
(19:25):
much as I would learn if the if they were
able to score on an Orlando, Right, I do think
there is something better to be learned there. Speaking of
the race to one hundred, Danny, how many times have
the Cavs scored less than one hundred points this year?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Man, it can't be many. I mean it has to
be what's three? One it happened against one, just the
game against Indy and that's.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
The one against it they lost. They've had a they've
five of their six losses. Are are their lowest scoring outings.
They they so like it just goes to show. They
have two losses this year, sorry three elt Nope, bad
counting whatever. They don't have a ton of losses when
they score over one hundred and ten.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I don't have a ton of losses period.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
No, they sure don't. But yeah, yeah, five of their
five of their eleven are are are in their are
in their very worst offensive outings. Really, they've only had one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven games with less than one ten. So you know,
I do think like that is where I will start.
That's and that is going to be the standard I
(20:28):
kind of expect for the postseason. Like, it's so weird
to have this team that's kind of been this electric
on offense and still me having some of these questions
on offense. I guess I should ask, like, do you
share my concerns? Do you have that little needle of
doubt in the back of your mind of like, are
they gonna are they gonna, you know, tighten up a
little bit? Is the machine not gonna look so sexy
(20:49):
in the postseason?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
No, because I think that they would have to tighten
up so much, Like I don't know that I would
have a lot offensive rating, right, I don't know that
I would expect them to have a postseason offensive rating
of one hundred and twenty two, which is what it's
around right now for the regular season, Like that might
be a little.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
High, but I think that if they take.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
A step back offensively, they're still the best offensive team
in basketball.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Like they have.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I think they're they are the leaders in offensive rating
by more than two points per one hundred possessions in
denversus number two offense, Like that is a pretty significant
gap when you look at things. So if they take
a step back and you factor in, okay, well, most
other teams are going to take a step back too,
Like even if the step back that the Calves might
take on offense in the postseason is bigger, they've built
up enough of a buffer that it's like, okay, yeah,
(21:35):
well they're like eight out of ten offensive game is
better than the nine or ten out of ten offensive
game for how many other teams in basketball? Like, I
think that matters as part of this conversation too, And
so much of this is for shooting, Like if the
Cavs shoot thirty two percent or better, they've lost from
three point range. They've lost four times this year. They've
(21:57):
only lost if they shoot thirty two percent or better.
They have four losses on the season. I would expect
them from three point range to be able to shoot
thirty two percent or better most nights. Like they're just
when they hit their shots, they're really really hard to beat.
And I know that is as simple as it gets
with basketball, to make or miss league. We've all heard
that before. But when the Cap shots ball well, they
don't lose. Like that's just who this team is.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, And I do think their high defensive ceiling and
them showing that over this last month is important to
that because you know, the difference between dropping from a
one oh eight one ten offensive rating to like one
hundred is pretty brutal, but one twenty to like one
oh one twelve, one thirteen, one fourteen isn't so bad
if your defensive rating is also kind of moving commensurate
(22:41):
with your offense. Like if your if your defense is
locking down twenty percent more, but your offense is getting
locked down twenty percent more, you're still in really really
good shape and you know you're in a position to
do your best work, and Danny only you can do
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(23:02):
with eligible paid plans. Were happy with zoom Ai companion Danny.
It's been a wild year and a really amazing year,
including one ty Jerome who was yapping' with Palo Bancaro.
What did you think of that exchange? I thought it
was fun. I feel like the national scene got to
(23:25):
see just how much our boy likes to talk.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Right, I mean, that's who Tie has been all year.
I think that that swagger, if you will, is a
part of his game. And I don't know that Ti
Drome is the player that Tidrome has become this year
without that type of edge that he's he's found the
way to play with on a regular basis, Like that
is part of who he is. He's somebody that is
going to talk every single night. And you know, you
(23:50):
got to give him credit the play that he's had
on the floor. And I will be the first to
raise my hand and say I did not factor in
Ti Drome having this amount of success this year to
what I thought the Calves would be like, for me
looking at this team before the season, he was kind
of an afterthought. I don't necessarily know how much organizationally
the Calves expected him to contribute. I certainly don't think
(24:12):
they expected him to be a guy that's flirting with
fifty forty ninety splits. And I haven't looked at what
his free throw percentages after he missed a few free
throws on Sunday. But he's had an incredible year and
I think that he kind.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Of dropped eighty eight points.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I know, that's tough. That's tough.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I th that was what I thought about when he
missed because he missed three three throws on Sunday, that
was immediately what I thought of, Like, man, that's especially
for somebody who doesn't get to the line a ton,
those three misses are are pretty penal.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But I think that he brings an edge that the
Calves kind of need.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
You need somebody on the floor that plays on a
nightly basis, that has that sort of attitude. And I
think he's been awesome for them in every way, imaginable
and better than anyone could have expected.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, I saw some I saw some discourse, you know,
in our in our podcast discord and a few other
spots that they didn't love the tie. Minutes after that
kind of verbal scuffle, Uh, you know, thought he played
a little out of control, and I do. I will
kind of say, I feel like the tie out of
control and tie playing the way he's played all year
(25:19):
kind of exists on a racer's edge, you know, Like
I feel like sometimes that to me, I felt like
that was playing the result a little bit, Like, Yeah,
he kind of had a rough second half, missed the
three free throws, had a couple a couple of really
rough turnovers. But I also think like he's been making
a really really high degree of difficulty decisions all year,
(25:40):
and like I think, like, you know, if he's able
to loop that crazy cross court pass over to the
left wing, then we're talking about what a great pass
I was have he If he finishes a couple of
those crazy floaters, then we're really happy. I mean, the
free throws, I just don't know what you say. He's
miss free throws, which you know we see Larious Garland
miss free throws with that, Do you think it was
(26:01):
playing the result? Do you think or do you think
that was an opportunity where you know, if you're coaching
the team, maybe you give a little more Isaacle Coro
run or or something like that, just to change the rhythm,
you know, when the games kind of slipping away from you.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
No, because I think that, and we just got done
talking about the ball pressure that Orlando was able to
present to the Cavs, I think that they needed a
little bit more additional, you know, ball handling on the floor.
And that's why I think Tye is kind of given
that longer leash there even on a night when he
maybe doesn't have his best stuff, and that's going to
happen over the course of eighty two games.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Like I don't think he should be faulted for.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Not having his best game of the season on Sunday,
but I thought that the shooting that he provides, the
ball handling, and I know that it wasn't all great
and Tye plays One of the things that I really
really enjoy about his game is that he plays the
game at a much different speed than anybody else. And
part of the reason why I've always really loved Darius
Garland's game from the time that he first got to
(26:57):
Cleveland is it felt like he have the ability to
play slow, right, Like he could kind of slow things
down and still find his spots and use a change
of pace that can be really hard for other guys
to get to. And it feels like Tie doesn't necessarily
always play at that change of pace, but he plays
(27:17):
at that change of.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Pace far more frequently than anybody that I can think.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Of slow and he can play slower.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Right, yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I mean, how many guys get into the paint slower
than Ti Jrome does And it works so perfectly because
defenses are not used to it, Like it's such a
hard thing to defend because we think about athleticism being oh,
this guy is just bigger, stronger, faster. Sometimes athleticism can
be about changing speed and changing directions. And when you
think about changing speed, you think about going from fast
(27:48):
to fast. Tie goes from sometimes fast too slow, too slower,
And I think that is just as difficult as a
change to defend against as going from fast to faster.
And I think that's one of the beautiful parts of
his game.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean, you won't find a bigger Tige your
own fan than me. I really do think he should
have legitimate six Man of the year consideration. I think
most of the stats when you look at the per
thirty six is right next to Peyton Pritchard, Who's going
to win it. Apparently all you got to do to
win six Man of the Year is play in Boston.
Uh uh, you know with Brogen winned it a couple
(28:19):
of years ago. Any any really Niche award, We gave it.
We gave the point of Marcus smart out of control,
these these Boston media. But you know, I I do.
I do think that he was a guy who I was,
you know, more than happy to see uh get them
minutes he got, even if the results were a little
up and down in the in the second half. And
like I also would argue, like for those that wanted
(28:41):
more Corman, it's like Cas did great on Franz Wagner
and Paolo Bankero, like even without Evan, And I thought
with that, no Evan Okora was going to be really
really needed to throw on a Pallo or Franz just
because you just you need a lot of warm bodies
to throw at them. I felt like they did great
(29:01):
on those guys, and I don't think that Paola or
Franz really ever got comfortable on the offensive end of
the ball. So it was a rare game. Normally, I
feel like when I see, you know, losses always bring
out rotation criticisms. For me, I just didn't really see
it in this one. I thought, I thought the Tristan
(29:22):
minutes were a little tough, but I mean they won
those minutes, right, So I don't know. I just don't
know how to feel.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Even the first half minutes for a corps, I think
the Calves were a minus in those minutes. Those minutes
did not go well. He might have been like a
minus thirteen to seven minutes. And of course that was
when Orlando went on its run, and that's not Isaaca
Korro's faulton After the game, Kenny Atkinson said that that
was him not playing in the second half is sort
of a victim of circumstance things. So if you remember,
(29:50):
Tristan was at the scorers table to check in for
Jared Allen with about three minutes left in the third quarter,
and the next whistle was Jared Allen got fouled and
had to go to the free throw lines. Of course,
you can't check in for a guy the shooting free throw,
so Jared ended up playing a longer stint, which means
Tristan didn't get on the floor until later. And then
instead of having Isaac mccuorro come in and maybe play
(30:11):
some deanweight at the five minutes early in the fourth quarter,
the Calves didn't do that because Tristan's run hadn't been
very long yet, and then they were ready to go
back to Jared Allen. So that's kind of the reason
too that you look at is Okay, maybe that's why
Isaac coccuero wasn't on the floor in the second half,
and you no, I think that with what he would
have been tasked doing, I don't know that that's where
(30:32):
the Calves needed the help.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Like I think they needed help to make shots.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And Isaac is certainly pre shoulder injury, was shooting the
leather off the basketball.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Hasn't been as good since.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Injuring that right shoulder, and that's a really difficult thing
to come back from in the middle of the season.
But they needed more offense, and I just don't know
that you're looking at Isaac mcuorro to provide that in
that spot.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Now, I'm with you, I mean, I really think you know,
if you're looking for a bit more space, a little
more shooting, a little bit more creation, you're going to
play and Sam Merril the majority of those minutes. And
that's what Kenny did. You know, Sam has a nightmare
shooting game. He go misses first six threes, and sometimes
you just have games like that where things just aren't falling.
(31:12):
And you know, it is always important to say, like,
people don't like it when we do the open three
point stats, but they matter. And the Cavs shot five
of fourteen on wide open threes. They shot four of
eighteen on slightly contested threes. So you know, nine of
thirty two on open or on wide open or somewhat
(31:33):
open shots is like, that's just a tough hill to climb.
You know, they didn't. I thought Orlando did do a
lot of interesting stuff. And like one thing I will
say is this was a game where you miss Evan
on the offensive end of the floor.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
One hundred percent. I thought that they missed his playmaking
more than anything on offense. Like, I think a big
part of his success this year has obviously been he's
been more aggressive and seeking out his own shot.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
He's been more aggressive going to the basket.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
He's been far less hesitant, I think beyond the arc
shooting the basketball.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But what he's been good at.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
His entire career I think has been the playmaking thing,
and that's probably been a little bit underrated from him.
But in watching that game, especially as you talk about
with the ball pressure, it's like, Okay, well, how would
this offense look different if Evan's making a few plays
and finding open shooters? How would things look different for
you know, Donovan Mitchell in particular, who spends a lot
of time on the floor with Evan mobile, Like, how
would that have changed his game that he had on Sunday?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I thought they missed him.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
And it's easy to say this in a game where
they lose, giving up one hundred and eight points, like
it was not a bad defensive effort by any stretch
of the imagination. But I thought it was clear they
missed him a ton on offense. And I don't want
to say they don't miss the defensive player of the
year on defense because that wouldn't be entirely true. But
they played well enough on that end of the floor
(32:48):
be like, eh, you could take the day off defensively
and you didn't necessarily feel it a ton and then
offensive was like I would have liked that there.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Well, yeah, I feel like the thing with Evan on
offense is because everything else in the machine is worked
so well. This year, it's felt like his offensive growth
has been the straw that breaks the camel back a
lot in a lot of these games. You know, you
look at that Memphis game where he hits three straight threes,
and you just felt like the game was over right away,
(33:15):
Like he hit those three threes and I'm like, all right,
we're done. We're done here he's bullying Zachy off the floor,
and you know, that's been so much of what he's
done has been that extra piece to push them over
the top, and very rarely has he had to be
the guy that's raising the floor for the offense. But
(33:37):
Orlando made a scheme change in this game. Jared Allen
just had a parade of free runs in the pick
and roll in that first half, and they were crashing
down hard. They were taking advantage of the fact that
the Cows weren't hitting, because again the Cows regenerating a
lot of open looks, but they were crashing down hard.
Darius had five turnovers, Donovan had three. I'll bet five
(34:00):
or six of those were in the second half of
just them trying to hit a pocket pass to Jared
in Orlando crashing in and forcing and hitting him early.
And if you're able to get Evan the ball, you know,
on those on those kind of slips at the top
of the arc or running an inverted pick and roll
(34:20):
or whatever it may be, there are things that you know,
as good as Jared's gotten with the ball, you still
don't want him taking five or six dribbles in a possession.
You know, you want one dribble, you know, step step,
lay up or floater or pass, like that's just that's
just where Jared's game is. And I felt like that
with no Evian on the floor or Lander just kind
(34:41):
of said, Hey, whatever you want to do, we're just
not going to give you those two steps, We're going
to make you. We're going to make you beat us
in another way. And I feel like that's part of
why the Cabs offense short circuit is because the thing
that was so successful went away and then it's it's like, okay,
well now what because running off ball stuff, no one
(35:04):
chases harder than Orlando off ball and no one's more physical,
blowing up screens than Orlando, And I do think like
that is where Evan raises the floor of the offense
as much as he raises the ceiling, because he can
just do different stuff that you that you just don't
get to do when he's not on the.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Floor, right, And I think that having another guy that
can too go and get his own stuff, like go
and get his own basket too, and that's been a
big I think a big plus of adding DeAndre Hunter
is having somebody else that's a little bit bigger, that
has that wingspan that can kind of create for himself.
Like I think he's been really awesome in that area.
But I think that they missed Evan's playmaking. They missed
(35:43):
him getting downhill to the basket, being aggressive. And I
don't know that Orlando can make the same adjustments they
made after that first quarter where the Caps scored thirty
eight points if Evan Mobley's on the floor, Like, I
think that that game really speaks to his importance side
on that end. And to your point about the turnovers,
Darius and Donovan combined to have eight turnovers on Sunday,
Seven of them came in the second half, so it
(36:05):
was a big adjustment that Orlando made, And I don't
know that the Magic deserves all of the credit for that.
Like I think some of that was a little bit
of a lack of maybe attention to detail on offense.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
But it's something that just Evan mobile. He solves a
lot of problems for this team, like he really truly does.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, they're one and three and their last four without Evan.
In games Evan has played, they're on a seventy three
win pace, And if he had played all eighty two,
and that doesn't include the Miami game, he left in
the first quarter. So, like, I mean, clearly they miss him.
Are you at the point now where you would say
(36:43):
he is their most important player, like the guy who
is most crucial for them to do what they want
to do? Obviously it's hard in tight margins here, right.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I think it kind of depends on the matchup, you know.
I was having a conversation with somebody about this a
little bit earlier today, And I think for the Calves
to win the finals in a I think they're gonna
have to get through Boston in the Eastern Conference. Like
I really truly feel strongly that's gonna be the Eastern
Conference Finals, and I think for the Calves to win
that series, Donovan Mitchell probably has to be the best
(37:14):
player in that series for the Calves because of how
well he's played against Boston, just because of the some
of the defensive stuff against Darius, and I think some
of the numbers with Evan against Porzingis have also not
been great. I think that has to be Donovan Mitchell
series and say they get past that.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
And okay, so he's waiting for them on the other end.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
That's the series. I think Evan needs to be the
best player in the Caves. Like I just think it
kind of depends. It's a matchup dependent thing. Like he
is obviously vital to winning I think any series in
the postseason, but I think like his importance level varies
maybe a little bit depending on who the opponent is
to and just how things look stylistically.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I think it goes to speak to how well these
top four dudes fit together that that is the answer,
Because I think you're right. I was getting ready to
just say it's Evan, but I think I think you
already swayed me off of that to say that it
is what I'm here for. Thanks buddy. I do think
it is going to be inherently matchup based, and I
do think it's reflective of how these dudes paper over
(38:13):
each other's weaknesses. You know, you could, you could certainly
make the case that it's Evan, But to your point,
if you're in Boston and you don't have Donovan Mitchell
for a game, and you're like, A, who's gonna just
create a bucket for us? Because that's not Darius isn't
a great bucket generator on his own. Evan is not
a great bucket generator on his own. Jared is not
(38:35):
a great bucket generator on his own. All great scorers,
all great, very helpful players, but they're not just the
you know, the ISO star that Donovan can be, especially
against that Boston team, and you know, with with if
Darius wasn't in the game, we'd probably be like, can
someone get us into the offense? You know, so it's
just like everyone covers up. You know. I don't think
(38:56):
any of those four guys, and certainly at the top three,
I don't think any of the those three have like horrific, glaring,
like five alarm fire weaknesses, but they do have things
that maybe they're like a B minus at and the
playoffs require playoffs require a lot of A pluses, you know,
and so the fact that these four I do think
(39:17):
it is so core to their identity that all of
these guys can have all these different A plus elements
to their game. And there's been a lot of talk
about depth in the postseason and top end depth, you know,
which is a bit of an oxymoron, but I do
think it's a real thing where like having you know,
That's why I think Boston won the title last year
(39:38):
because they had four or five guys who could literally
take over a half with their play. And I think
the Calves are right there with that top end depth.
They have enough guys who can get to an A
plus and whatever the game needs them to have that
you know, they they can. They have that high ceiling,
(39:59):
so they.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
They have the ability to, you know, And I think
this is one of the best parts about this team
is that on how many games can you look at
and in big games and just be like, you know what,
Jared Allen was one of the biggest reasons why the
Cavs won this game, Like you can, I can think
of the OKAC game in Cleveland that they won that
game because Jared Allen had twenty five points and however
(40:21):
many rebounds he had in that game, like he was spectacular,
or how many games did they win because Donovan Mitchell
was just a flat out superstar, Like you look at
the game they just won in Boston a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
That was absolutely part of it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Darius Garland has games like that, Evan Mobley has games
like that, like they just the top end depth, I
think is a great way to look at it, because there.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Are not many teams in the NBA that have the luxury.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Of the fourth best player on the team is somebody
that is as good as Jared Allen and also as
unselfish as Jared Allen, Like if I think that, and
he won't do this because this is not who Jared
Allen is. And that's part of the reason why the
Calves work. Like Jared is a good enough player to
be like I should get the ball more like I
should be scoring twenty two to twenty five points a game.
(41:04):
But that's not who Jared Allen is. And that's part
of the thing that makes this team so special is
that he is that talented and doesn't necessarily require some
of the maintenance that maybe other guys of his caliber
in other situations might I.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Was really thinking, like I was thinking that by the
end of Jared's tenure, he might be my favorite CAV ever,
just in terms of his complete, unique perspective, his general demeanor,
what a good duty is. Like, you know, I will
always remember that that poster where he tried to do
(41:41):
that I'm me, I'm him, and then he breaks out
laughing because he can't even hold on. It's trying to
be a hard ass for more than five minutes or
for more than five seconds. It's just immediately a collapse. Yeah,
they really do have it all, And like I do
think it really and maybe I'm over into on last
year's title because that's what we do, right. We always
(42:03):
try to learn maybe too many lessons from the most
recent success. But I do think, like I don't really
think it matters that much how good the middle class
of your roster is. If you don't have three or
four guys or you have a Yo Kicch or something
like that who can just consistently be supernova. But if
(42:25):
you don't have at least two dudes who can take
over a game for stretches, who can dominate a quarter
or two quarters, then I just think you're dead in
the water. And I think so much of what we've
seen from this season, and like, yeah, you have to
give Tie his flowers, you have to give guys like
(42:47):
Max Struce their flowers, and even Keras and Niang before
they were traded their flowers. But I do think so
much of their success is built around the ecosystem that
the the team provide. Like it's just not, like I've
said it a lot this year, I just don't think
it's that hard to play your best basketball for the
(43:08):
Cleveland Cavaliers this year.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
No, I couldn't agree with that more. And I think
a big part of that too, is this team when
they're playing their best, and even sometimes when they're not
playing their best, Like think to the buzzer beater that
DeAndre Hunter hit just before halftime on Sunday, and how fun.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I'm so mad that that wiped out by the loss.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Right, But like they have moments like that, and it
seems like this team just genuinely enjoys.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Playing basketball together.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
And I think that's a really rare and special thing
that should probably be a little bit like celebrated more
than it is by the public, by fans just like
this is so special because you don't often see this
and it doesn't last forever. But the way that this
team genuinely seems to love and Karen enjoy playing basketball
with each other is a really really cool thing to
(43:58):
watch on a regular basis too.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, I'll tell you what. I spent my whole life
hearing people complain that the NBA players don't care, are
only out for themselves, don't play defense, don't try hard,
And so I imagine everyone I grew up with must love
this Cavaliers team, and the in the in the entire
country must be falling in love with this Cavaliers team.
(44:22):
Oh wait, no, they're just complaining about something else. That's because,
for whatever reason, this is a sport. He goes that
that voice the most bad faith complaints. But yeah, it's
been it's been an amazing season. It's been a lot
of fun. Even after a loss. They almost it almost
does wake you up to how fun the year is.
We're like, oh wait, I have to feel I felt
like this like twenty plus times last year. You you know,
(44:46):
like it does really, you know, we've been very spoiled
and I did want before we said goodbye, I did
want to just take a look into the next week
for the Cavs because attorneys in town BA Baby Calves
are going on the road. We've got a five game
road trip at LA at Sacramento, at Phoenix, at Utah,
(45:08):
at Portland. Four of those five games very late, starting
at ten o'clock Eastern time or later. Before we dive in,
I'm going to give my forever precursor. If things aren't
going well, or maybe they're not going the way you
want them to, and you, as a fan, are finding
yourself getting a little grumpy drawing big conclusions, I just
(45:31):
want to remind you you're sleepy. You're staying up till
one thirty in the morning watching basketball and then probably
taking an hour to wind down after the game, so
you're really going to bed at like two thirty, and
then you're waking up at seven point thirty to go
work out, get ready to go to work, and then
you're just not sleeping enough, so you're grumpy. So just
(45:51):
remind yourself, dude, am I really mad? Or am I
just tired? All right, preamble over, Danny, what do you
expect from this West Coast trip? You know, on one hand,
this team has bounced back unbelievably well from losses, but
on the other it's just a grueling margin. This is
about as grueling of a trip as they're going to have, right.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
So I think that Tuesday's game is the one I'm
most interested in because one it is the one right
after a loss, and two it comes against a really
good defense. The Clippers are third in defensive rating entering
games on Monday for the entire season. Like that is
how they have built the record that they have. That
is why they're in the playoff picture out West is
(46:33):
because they're a really good defensive team. After that, I
kind of think this could serve as a get right
trip for the Cavs offense because you look at Yes,
Sacramento is on the second edge of a back to back.
The Kings will be rested that the Cavs won't be,
but they're a below average defense. The Blazers have been
a better defense lately, but they're still sixteenth for this season.
Phoenix has the worst vibes in the NBA and one
(46:54):
of the worst defenses too. Gee imagine that, and then
Utah is the second worst defense in basketball.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Like I think that if the Caves are the wheels
off on that campaign.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Oh my goodness, I.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Heard Walker Kestler took like six threes in the game.
I was like, Oh my god, it's just.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It is they have they have a goal out there,
and that goal is not to beat the Calves next Sunday,
but they the.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Casas is walking through these doors.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Danny, what a callback. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
But the Calves have been fifteenth in offense in the
month of March, and that's not who they are as
a basketball team. I think they're in a little bit
of a shooting malaise, if you will, and I think
that going against some of the defenses that they're going
to see over the next week and change is something
that could serve as a bit of an antidote towards
their their shooting struggles.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
As of late.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
And I would expect by the time they return home
next week that they will look much more like the
team that has been number one in offense virtually the
entire season than what we've seen lately.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
All Right, Danny, before we go, I just got because
we're probably not going to have you back on before
the end of the season, because there ain't that much
season left. I got to ask you, what's this team's
final record.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
The final regular season record. I think they are going
to go sixty eight and fourteen. I think that they
will lose three more games this year. I don't know
that they will necessarily play everybody in some of those losses.
I think that we could see some games down the
stretch where the Cavs value being a little bit rested
and healthy for the postseason as opposed to going all
(48:31):
out to win every single regular season game. I think
they're going to get to sixty eight wins and set
a new franchise record for the best regular season in
Cavs history.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Brother, I think I'm right there with you. I got
to say, I was really really hoping for seventy. Seventy
just felt like such a special number to reach. And
obviously it's not out of question. They could only lose
one more game, but they've had, you know, they've had
enough insane win streaks this season that I'm not counting
it out. But I do think sixty eight feels like
a really good number. You know, fourteen losses over a
(49:01):
basketball season is bananas, and it would be one of
the greatest seasons in the history of the sport, which
reflects how good this team is. So you know, I
think I think it's a very reasonable prediction and and
and very fair and would still put them. Well, now
here's the other question is do they hold off Okay,
see for the number one overall record in the league.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I think sixty eight wins would would do that.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
I think that's ok.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
He's probably gonna win sixty six if I had to bet.
And I think the craziest thing about what you.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Just said is I said I think they're gonna win
sixty eight games in euro That's pretty reasonable for prediction there.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, we're being we're being measured and cautious observers of
the game. All right, Danny, before I before we go
go ahead and plug your stuff. You do unbelievable work
and really really appreciate it having you on.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Well, I appreciate that you can find me every day
wherever you get your podcasts over at locked on Calves
coming your way just about every single day at.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
This point, weekends included.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
And you can find everything I write about the Cleveland
Cavaliers at my subsect.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
The inside Shot.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
Links for that and everything I do can be found
on my social media at really cunning him on Twitter
or Danny Cunningham on Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
All right, thank you so much. Go subscribe to Danny
Cunningham substack. It is unbelievable. It's some of the best
writing that you're going to see covering this team. It's
really really nice to get that extra perspective on top
of the pods. Also highly recommend your beginning of the
week whip around pods with Beat reporters or people who
cover each individual team. I think those are some of
(50:35):
my most informational and kind of quick, quick digestive snapshots
of what the Cavs week is going to look like.
So thank you so much for coming on, Danny, and
really appreciate you, and I really appreciate you listeners and
viewers of the Chase Down. If you'd like to support
the podcasts, go ahead subscribe on Subscribe resubscribe and help
cook those books. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead
(50:57):
and to hit the subscribe button on the Calves official
YouTube channel. Go ahead and like this video if you
if you're feeling if you're feeling kind, my deepest, deepest
and best wishes go to my poor sick co host.
We love you. So much justin get better. Thank you
so much for watching and listening and as always go
get
This crowd rises to its being.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What Carl slammed it?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Oh? Carle left wing reball, perfect handlift block the shot
at the rim? How with the left hand head of fowl.
Hello and welcome to the Chase Down Pod. The Chase
Down is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of
the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of
live sports and TV, including fan Duel Sports Network without cable.
(00:26):
There is no cost and there is no commitment. Try
for free at FuboTV dot com Slash Calves. There's also
no Justin Rowan. We got a sick boy, a sick
lad with us. You know. It goes to show the
Calves finally lose a game and he ducks the smoke.
Just kidding. He's actually super bummed because he he loves
(00:46):
being on after losses. He loves a body to dissect.
But no, have no fear. I'm not here alone. You
don't have to hear me drone for forty straight minutes.
We've got host of lockdown Calves and the inside shot
on substack. Danny Cunningham, How you doing, buddy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm well man, Thanks for having me. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Oh? You know, doing fine and dandy going through you know,
doing bedtime solo night. So we're just blasting from thing
to thing to thing, but you know, we're feeling good.
And I was thinking, Danny. I was thinking, because yesterday
we had an afternoon mattin a loss, and those are
always a little weird because you just kind of have
to sit with the rest of the day, you know,
(01:27):
And I was thinking that. You know, so I started
out like, you know, fine with the loss overall, but
then I thought about it more and I was getting grumpy,
and I realized that I am functionally like the president
of a homeowner's association in a nice neighborhood. You know,
I'm looking, I'm really my problems aren't too serious, but
(01:52):
to me they feel serious. You know, it's been such
a weird year where like you just have no sense
there's so little to poke at that like a loss
like that where they had the game well in hand
and then you know, blow it down the stretch does
feel kind of jarring.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It feels so strange to even talk about losses, and
like doing it on my own podcasts, like how do
I approach this? Because the end listen, it's not as
if during this sixteen game winning streak can't sit here
next like every single game that they wondering that streak
was perfect basketball. I think they actually had one of
their worst weeks of the season and they went four
to oh in that week, which is an incredible and
(02:30):
remarkable thing. I think really does speak to their greatness
that they were able to find ways to win games
that they didn't necessarily play their best. But the way
I look at it is they had a really bad
shooting day.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
It doesn't happen to them very often because they're such
a good shooting team and Orlando, a team that's a
pretty awful shooting team, had one of its best shooting
days of the season, and though that combination just sunk
them for an afternoon, Like, I don't think that that
loss is anything that is repeatable.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I don't think it's anything to be worried about.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It think, hey, sometimes when you play these two games,
a game like that's going to happen, and for this
team to be where they're at at fifty six and eleven,
the fact that they haven't had many of those is
kind of incredible to.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, I mean, they are now a lowly forty eight
and one after heading into the fourth quarter with the leads.
You know, I was really by the way talk about,
you know, the small tragedies, I was really excited for
that one to be like, didn't lose a game all year,
heading into the playoffs with the lead in the fourth quarter,
I was excited for them to have that stat in
(03:32):
their back pocket. So, you know, I don't know, it
is one of those things where there's been so few losses,
there's been so few poor like straight up just poor performances,
that it is hard to kind of analyze what's real
and what's not. You know, was this just a shooting
variance loss in your opinion, or do you think there
(03:53):
was some stuff for the Cavs to pull out of it?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I mean, I never I think it's never one thing, right, Like,
if you look can any of the other ten games
they've lost incredible, if you look at those, like, it's
never just one thing that necessarily goes wrong, And anytime
a team loses a game, you can't point to one thing.
I think that the shooting variance is the biggest part
of that because look at some of the shots that
the Calves are able to generate on Sunday, like Sam
(04:17):
Merril had how many three pointers where he could have
kind of checked for wind inside of rocket arena And
those are shots that you're going to expect se him
to make. He's been shooting almost fifty percent on threes
from February first onward, like he's been awesome lately, just
didn't have a great day. Donovan Mitchell goes three or
fourteen from three, you expect Donovan to shoot the basketball
(04:38):
better than that. Like, I think the shooting variance is
the biggest thing. I thought the turnover is certainly the
ones at the end of the third quarter where Ty
loses the ball twice Donovan loses it once, Like that
was I thought a really big swing because Sam had
one of those threes it was in the right corner
that if that goes in, the Calves are up by
eleven with two minutes left in the third quarter.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Instead, that doesn't go in, there's a foul.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
The magic split the free throws and then create three
quick turnovers and the game's tied. Like, I think that
is the ultimate sliding doors moment, if you will, of
that game. But I think the shooting is probably the
biggest thing that just went wrong, not to say they
were perfect.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
The ball movement could have been better.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
They haven't played necessarily their best offensive basketball this season.
Last month I think they're fifteenth in March in offense.
But overall, it's just like, you know, if they make
a few shots that we're used to seeing them make
that they've made all season long, they win that game
by ten to fifteen points, and no one even thinks
twice about it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, I do think it is worth kind of keying
in on that turnover Leyden kind of stretch, because I
do think they win the game without it. You know,
a ten er run when you're kind of in firm
control of the game does And you know, I do
think if you're Orlando, you went from we're just hanging
(05:55):
on to we think we can, we think we got
this now? Who can hang? You know? And they've just
had the season from hell. I mean after the forty
point drubbing, I kind of compared their arc to where
this team was a year ago, where you have your
really fun breakout and then you know, the year after
you just have a dump truck of bad luck. Everyone's hurt.
(06:17):
Even when they're playing, they're not hole and all that stuff,
and you know so, I but like there's still a
team that with a lot of pride, especially coming out
of that out of that first round series last year.
And I do think that is kind of where the
game changed. I think mostly gets a lot of credit
for springing in out of nowhere full court press that
I certainly was not ready for, and it certainly didn't
(06:40):
seem the Calves were either. I got to ask, we
have seen more often than not that when the Calves
have trouble, when they are knocked out of their rhythm.
You know, Justin I'll represent my dear sweet co host
who's laid up right now and saying that. You know,
(07:01):
the national media always points to long wings being what
bother the Calves, and Justin has always kind of persisted that, no,
it's ball pressure. The Calves don't like it when people
are up in their grill and how does Orlando turn
this game? It's ball pressure? And like, how much of
that do you think is kind of one of these
flaws that the team just isn't super well built to handle.
(07:24):
How much of that is just Avan not being there
to be an outlet and a release valve when that
pressure comes, Like how much do you index on that
because I still am not sure.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So I think it kind of depends where the ball
pressure is.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Like I view the ninety four feet ball pressure type
of a thing is something that's not super concerning when
the postseason arrives, because you know, and it's happened.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I can count probably four of their.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Losses, the one on Sunday, the one against Indiana, and
both of them against Atlanta where you saw that right
where it is into pressure.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeahertainly the loss. I think that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Exact loss, that exact loss, so fiet I.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Don't think the one in Cleveland where they scored I
think it was one hundred and thirty two points in
a loss necessarily counts against Houston, but the one in
Houston does, and that gave me more so point two. Well,
Darius Carlin missed five free throws, which he's never done
in any other game as a professional basketball player.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That's not going to happen again.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So like there are all these little things, but you
look at the one at home against Indiana, both losses
to Atlanta around Thanksgiving, like he kind of felt like
that was part of the problem there. And I actually
equate struggling with that maybe a little bit more to
a focus type of thing. And I just don't know
that necessarily, for a full forty eight minutes of all
eighty two regular season teams, players are able to stay
(08:45):
completely focused. And I think that when the postseason arrives
that becomes a non issue.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So I just don't know that that's necessarily the thing.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Now, if you want to point to how certain guys
like upper tier perimeter defenders can handle maybe Derry Garland,
maybe Donovan Mitchell in postseason, I think that is a conversation,
particularly when you look at Drew Holliday with the Boston
Celtics and the numbers that he has defending Darius Garland
at times in Garland's career, Like that could be maybe
(09:13):
the thing, But I don't view it as oh man,
Anthony Black really got into tide Rome in the third
quarter of a game in March. The Calves might be
in trouble dealing with ball pressure there. Like I think
that to me is maybe more of a focused thing.
Maybe it's more of a Hey, it was a one
o'clock Sunday game. It was the intensity level at a
playoff level. No, it wasn't like I think that those
things matter when you're having that conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think I think it's
a little bit of column A, a little bit of Columby.
I do think these small guards would much rather, you know,
you hang back and play a conservative defense because they
are one just faster, they can get to the spot
better than your big can and a drop coverage like
(09:55):
they're going to get to that spot. He hit their
float to range, and when you're backpedaling against the calves,
you're just kind of toast because of how well Darius
and Donovan changed directions, to say nothing of the other
supplementary pieces on this team. Whereas when you are kind
of in their grow, when you're pushing them back one,
it gets a little harder for them to let their
(10:17):
tempo kind of control the game. You're kind of imposing
your tempo on them. And then also they're just smaller,
so it's a little bit harder for them to hit that.
You know, that guy in the short role, when you're
making the past thirty three feet from the basket as
opposed to twenty feet from the basket, you know they're
Jared Allen's catching it at the top the three point
arc and has to make three dribbles on the way
(10:39):
to the hoop before he makes a decision instead of
you know, one step and then either a pass or
a floater. So, like, I do think there's something to it.
I do think it's the first thing that teams will
try against them. I just am not sure you know
how to your point, like, I think you're still going
to have to have the right personnel to do it,
(11:02):
and really, like not to oversimplify it always is going
to come down to just how good are you add like,
how many different kind of looks can you throw at
this team? Because I don't think, you know, I don't
think seven games of ball pressure is necessarily the answer.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
No, And I think that's a hard thing for opponents
to keep up for seven games too, because you know,
we look at this as a because it is a
thing that has affected the calves. It's the lens that
we view it through. But how how repeatable is that
To do that seven times in two weeks for forty
eight minutes, Like that's a really difficult thing to do,
especially when the entire game is at a much more
intense level. In the postason because the regular season just
(11:41):
I mean, the effort level is obviously really high from
every team every single night, and that's something that probably
doesn't get talked about enough. But the intensity level isn't
at the same in the regular season it is in
the postseason. It becomes harder to defend full court in
the in the postseason than it doesn't it. You know,
the defense in the half court, I think becomes tougher
in the post, and I think that actually makes it
(12:01):
tougher to pick up full court because you're having to
expend so much energy on every single possession that sometimes defensively,
it might make sense to save that energy and just
defend in the half court because you're gonna have to
do more there.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Anyways, Yeah, it's it's an interesting conundrum, you know, for
this team, and in some ways it does make me
think any that as much as I don't relish the
idea of an Orlando first round series because they're so physical,
because they're so tough, and you know, and for a
team this good, really just you know, there's a bit
(12:34):
of like, let's just get through this first. You know,
Round or two is unscathed as humanly possible. Part of
the reason I'm not crazy excited about playing Giannis in
the second round. Do you think that this is a
this is actually kind of an iron like a wetstone
almost kind of match up for the Calves where if
(12:55):
you do play them in the first round and you
do figure out how to get your off going to
the way it was earlier in the seat in this
season series where the Calves put up one hundred and
twenty points plus in the first two games, if you
can prove that, hey, we you know, your ball pressure
actually doesn't mean anything to us, We're going to get
buckets on you, you think that's more valuable, even if
(13:17):
the series is a little more physical and hard fought
than playing a team like I don't know, like the
Bulls or the Hawks.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I mean, at the end of the day, like in
I think that we learned this during the run from
twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen, where we would just routinely
see this franchise sweep through the first round, and you
want to be able to conserve that energy for second, third,
fourth round playoff games, like you don't want to spend
more time in the first round than you have to.
I actually look at the Orlando matchup as Yes, maybe
(13:47):
that series would be a little bit more physical, but
I look at it as the Magic just don't have
an answer to what the Caves present from a math perspective,
like the Calves are going to shoot way more threes
in the Magic. They're going to make way more threes
than the Magic. So Yesterday's game FO Orlando was the
ninth time this season they've shot forty percent or better
from three in a single game. Like that's just not
(14:09):
something that ever happens. That they are the worst three
point shooting team in basketball. They're not going to be
able to keep up with the Cavs offensively. I think
it would be a really short series because an average
performance from the Cavs on offense is a ten to
fifteen point victory over the Magic's average performance. Like that's
just the way that I view that. Yes, it would
be more physical. I think it would be a good
hump for the Cavs to get over really just to
(14:31):
prove how much different they are. And I understand that
the Magic, as you mentioned, have had a season from health,
like they've not had their full allotment of key players.
Jalen Suggs is not going to come back this year,
like they are a team that is going to look
different if they make the playoffs then they did in
the four to five matchup that we all watched seven
games of last year. But I do think that getting
past that team, particularly in a quick fashion, which I
(14:53):
would expect to happen, I think that would be a
really good sign for this team, just like even if
it's internally feeling we are so much different than we
were last year, Like if they can look in the
mirror and say that after a first round series win
in four or five games as opposed to seven games
that it was last year, I think that could be
a good thing for them.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I think so too, And I do think that the
kind of the personnel that Orlando presents do help you
solve teams like you know, they're going to play a
very similar style to you know, in terms of their
ability to switch, in terms of their ability to close
out on your three point shooters and keep you from
getting your attempts up against teams like Boston. You know,
(15:32):
I'm not as worried about New York and Milwaukee on
the floor, obviously, but like you know, like I do
think there is some value in having a get the
offense going in a tough defensive series kind of thing,
and like to some extent it is like a bit
of a proof of concept, And no matter what data
(15:54):
we see and no matter what tape we see, I
do think every Cavs fan is going to have that
lingering concern in the back of their mind of like,
when the pressure gets ratcheted up and when the scout
gets good and teams are really locked in, is this
Cavs offense going to score at the level they've been
scoring in the regular season or at least in the neighborhood.
(16:15):
Because we're two years in to pretty precipitous dropoffs from
their regular season average in the postseason, I would continue
to argue that last year probably deserves a little bit
more grace than that. I'm not sure any team played
two tougher matchups on the other side of the floor
than Orlando than Boston and very shorthanded versus Boston, mind you,
(16:37):
but like, we still haven't seen this team just go
for a four or five game series put up one
hundred and fifteen, one hundred and twenty five, one hundred
and twenty Like it's been a race to one hundred
for this team in the playoffs. So I do think
there's something I don't know. I kind of go both ways,
because like, it would kind of be nice just to
play Atlanta and just be like, all right, let's just
(16:59):
let's just score, let's just play it, let's just play
our basketball, let's let's play. Let's get a taste of
what focused playoff basketball looks like without any risk of
of of you know, bits and starts in an accidentally
long series.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Right, So I do think it would be to a
good thing for the Caves to play the Magic because
they get that test on the one end of the
floor where you know, we're going to see exactly what
their elite, elite, elite level offense looks like against a
really good defense, and the Magic are still a top
five defense. They haven't necessarily played like a top five
defense since you know, the turn of the calendar to
(17:38):
their best since yes, he has very much changed that team,
I think, on both ends of the floor, like he's
been a big, big absence for them. But I think
that this would be an opportunity for the Caves to
get a taste at playing a really, really good defense
without necessarily being totally threatened on the other end of
the floor, Like Orlando is twenty eighth in offense, They're
(17:58):
not a team that's going to be able to win
race to for the most part, one hundred and ten points.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Like maybe it's not the first to.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
One hundred and twenty five points the way that some
regular season games have been for the Calves, and the
Calves have been since February first, the best defense in basketball.
So that conversation is very much different now than it
was maybe in November or January when.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
They were not playing great defensively.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
But I think that you look at this and say, Okay,
maybe that defense in Orlando is going to find a
way to slow down the Calves a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
But there's maybe they're not scoring one hundred.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And twenty five points a night in the playoffs, but
they're scoring one hundred and seventeen points a night, and
like that, I think against an Orlando offense, which is
a tough watch at times, I think, to put it nicely,
I think that would be more than enough and I
think that would be a confidence builder as saying, Okay,
we might not see a tougher defense in the Eastern
Conference than what we see in the first round against Orlando,
(18:49):
then they can say, and we figure that out, so
now we can figure out anything else for us the way,
whether it's against Milwaukee, Boston, Indie, Detroit, whoever, they could
see the rest of the way in the Eastern Conference
playoffs and then now in the finals. Like, Okay, C's
defense is really really good too, but you worry about
that if and when you get there.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, I think that's fair. And I would rather see
them conquer on the offensive end rather than you know, like,
I don't know if I would learn as much from
a first round series against Chicago where they, you know,
locked down on defense and held Chicago to nothing as
(19:25):
much as I would learn if the if they were
able to score on an Orlando, Right, I do think
there is something better to be learned there. Speaking of
the race to one hundred, Danny, how many times have
the Cavs scored less than one hundred points this year?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Man, it can't be many. I mean it has to
be what's three? One it happened against one, just the
game against Indy and that's.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
The one against it they lost. They've had a they've
five of their six losses. Are are their lowest scoring outings.
They they so like it just goes to show. They
have two losses this year, sorry three elt Nope, bad
counting whatever. They don't have a ton of losses when
they score over one hundred and ten.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I don't have a ton of losses period.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
No, they sure don't. But yeah, yeah, five of their
five of their eleven are are are in their are
in their very worst offensive outings. Really, they've only had one, two, three, four, five, six,
seven games with less than one ten. So you know,
I do think like that is where I will start.
That's and that is going to be the standard I
(20:28):
kind of expect for the postseason. Like, it's so weird
to have this team that's kind of been this electric
on offense and still me having some of these questions
on offense. I guess I should ask, like, do you
share my concerns? Do you have that little needle of
doubt in the back of your mind of like, are
they gonna are they gonna, you know, tighten up a
little bit? Is the machine not gonna look so sexy
(20:49):
in the postseason?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
No, because I think that they would have to tighten
up so much, Like I don't know that I would
have a lot offensive rating, right, I don't know that
I would expect them to have a postseason offensive rating
of one hundred and twenty two, which is what it's
around right now for the regular season, Like that might
be a little.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
High, but I think that if they take.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
A step back offensively, they're still the best offensive team
in basketball.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Like they have.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I think they're they are the leaders in offensive rating
by more than two points per one hundred possessions in
denversus number two offense, Like that is a pretty significant
gap when you look at things. So if they take
a step back and you factor in, okay, well, most
other teams are going to take a step back too,
Like even if the step back that the Calves might
take on offense in the postseason is bigger, they've built
up enough of a buffer that it's like, okay, yeah,
(21:35):
well they're like eight out of ten offensive game is
better than the nine or ten out of ten offensive
game for how many other teams in basketball? Like, I
think that matters as part of this conversation too, And
so much of this is for shooting, Like if the
Cavs shoot thirty two percent or better, they've lost from
three point range. They've lost four times this year. They've
(21:57):
only lost if they shoot thirty two percent or better.
They have four losses on the season. I would expect
them from three point range to be able to shoot
thirty two percent or better most nights. Like they're just
when they hit their shots, they're really really hard to beat.
And I know that is as simple as it gets
with basketball, to make or miss league. We've all heard
that before. But when the Cap shots ball well, they
don't lose. Like that's just who this team is.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, And I do think their high defensive ceiling and
them showing that over this last month is important to
that because you know, the difference between dropping from a
one oh eight one ten offensive rating to like one
hundred is pretty brutal, but one twenty to like one
oh one twelve, one thirteen, one fourteen isn't so bad
if your defensive rating is also kind of moving commensurate
(22:41):
with your offense. Like if your if your defense is
locking down twenty percent more, but your offense is getting
locked down twenty percent more, you're still in really really
good shape and you know you're in a position to
do your best work, and Danny only you can do
your best work. Zoom AA CampaignOn can help you do
the rest, like automatically taking notes, answering meeting questions, and
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(23:02):
with eligible paid plans. Were happy with zoom Ai companion Danny.
It's been a wild year and a really amazing year,
including one ty Jerome who was yapping' with Palo Bancaro.
What did you think of that exchange? I thought it
was fun. I feel like the national scene got to
(23:25):
see just how much our boy likes to talk.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Right, I mean, that's who Tie has been all year.
I think that that swagger, if you will, is a
part of his game. And I don't know that Ti
Drome is the player that Tidrome has become this year
without that type of edge that he's he's found the
way to play with on a regular basis, Like that
is part of who he is. He's somebody that is
going to talk every single night. And you know, you
(23:50):
got to give him credit the play that he's had
on the floor. And I will be the first to
raise my hand and say I did not factor in
Ti Drome having this amount of success this year to
what I thought the Calves would be like, for me
looking at this team before the season, he was kind
of an afterthought. I don't necessarily know how much organizationally
the Calves expected him to contribute. I certainly don't think
(24:12):
they expected him to be a guy that's flirting with
fifty forty ninety splits. And I haven't looked at what
his free throw percentages after he missed a few free
throws on Sunday. But he's had an incredible year and
I think that he kind.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Of dropped eighty eight points.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I know, that's tough. That's tough.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I th that was what I thought about when he
missed because he missed three three throws on Sunday, that
was immediately what I thought of, Like, man, that's especially
for somebody who doesn't get to the line a ton,
those three misses are are pretty penal.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But I think that he brings an edge that the
Calves kind of need.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
You need somebody on the floor that plays on a
nightly basis, that has that sort of attitude. And I
think he's been awesome for them in every way, imaginable
and better than anyone could have expected.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, I saw some I saw some discourse, you know,
in our in our podcast discord and a few other
spots that they didn't love the tie. Minutes after that
kind of verbal scuffle, Uh, you know, thought he played
a little out of control, and I do. I will
kind of say, I feel like the tie out of
control and tie playing the way he's played all year
(25:19):
kind of exists on a racer's edge, you know, Like
I feel like sometimes that to me, I felt like
that was playing the result a little bit, Like, Yeah,
he kind of had a rough second half, missed the
three free throws, had a couple a couple of really
rough turnovers. But I also think like he's been making
a really really high degree of difficulty decisions all year,
(25:40):
and like I think, like, you know, if he's able
to loop that crazy cross court pass over to the
left wing, then we're talking about what a great pass
I was have he If he finishes a couple of
those crazy floaters, then we're really happy. I mean, the
free throws, I just don't know what you say. He's
miss free throws, which you know we see Larious Garland
miss free throws with that, Do you think it was
(26:01):
playing the result? Do you think or do you think
that was an opportunity where you know, if you're coaching
the team, maybe you give a little more Isaacle Coro
run or or something like that, just to change the rhythm,
you know, when the games kind of slipping away from you.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
No, because I think that, and we just got done
talking about the ball pressure that Orlando was able to
present to the Cavs, I think that they needed a
little bit more additional, you know, ball handling on the floor.
And that's why I think Tye is kind of given
that longer leash there even on a night when he
maybe doesn't have his best stuff, and that's going to
happen over the course of eighty two games.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Like I don't think he should be faulted for.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Not having his best game of the season on Sunday,
but I thought that the shooting that he provides, the
ball handling, and I know that it wasn't all great
and Tye plays One of the things that I really
really enjoy about his game is that he plays the
game at a much different speed than anybody else. And
part of the reason why I've always really loved Darius
Garland's game from the time that he first got to
(26:57):
Cleveland is it felt like he have the ability to
play slow, right, Like he could kind of slow things
down and still find his spots and use a change
of pace that can be really hard for other guys
to get to. And it feels like Tie doesn't necessarily
always play at that change of pace, but he plays
(27:17):
at that change of.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Pace far more frequently than anybody that I can think.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Of slow and he can play slower.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Right, yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I mean, how many guys get into the paint slower
than Ti Jrome does And it works so perfectly because
defenses are not used to it, Like it's such a
hard thing to defend because we think about athleticism being oh,
this guy is just bigger, stronger, faster. Sometimes athleticism can
be about changing speed and changing directions. And when you
think about changing speed, you think about going from fast
(27:48):
to fast. Tie goes from sometimes fast too slow, too slower,
And I think that is just as difficult as a
change to defend against as going from fast to faster.
And I think that's one of the beautiful parts of
his game.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean, you won't find a bigger Tige your
own fan than me. I really do think he should
have legitimate six Man of the year consideration. I think
most of the stats when you look at the per
thirty six is right next to Peyton Pritchard, Who's going
to win it. Apparently all you got to do to
win six Man of the Year is play in Boston.
Uh uh, you know with Brogen winned it a couple
(28:19):
of years ago. Any any really Niche award, We gave it.
We gave the point of Marcus smart out of control,
these these Boston media. But you know, I I do.
I do think that he was a guy who I was,
you know, more than happy to see uh get them
minutes he got, even if the results were a little
up and down in the in the second half. And
like I also would argue, like for those that wanted
(28:41):
more Corman, it's like Cas did great on Franz Wagner
and Paolo Bankero, like even without Evan, And I thought
with that, no Evan Okora was going to be really
really needed to throw on a Pallo or Franz just
because you just you need a lot of warm bodies
to throw at them. I felt like they did great
(29:01):
on those guys, and I don't think that Paola or
Franz really ever got comfortable on the offensive end of
the ball. So it was a rare game. Normally, I
feel like when I see, you know, losses always bring
out rotation criticisms. For me, I just didn't really see
it in this one. I thought, I thought the Tristan
(29:22):
minutes were a little tough, but I mean they won
those minutes, right, So I don't know. I just don't
know how to feel.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Even the first half minutes for a corps, I think
the Calves were a minus in those minutes. Those minutes
did not go well. He might have been like a
minus thirteen to seven minutes. And of course that was
when Orlando went on its run, and that's not Isaaca
Korro's faulton After the game, Kenny Atkinson said that that
was him not playing in the second half is sort
of a victim of circumstance things. So if you remember,
(29:50):
Tristan was at the scorers table to check in for
Jared Allen with about three minutes left in the third quarter,
and the next whistle was Jared Allen got fouled and
had to go to the free throw lines. Of course,
you can't check in for a guy the shooting free throw,
so Jared ended up playing a longer stint, which means
Tristan didn't get on the floor until later. And then
instead of having Isaac mccuorro come in and maybe play
(30:11):
some deanweight at the five minutes early in the fourth quarter,
the Calves didn't do that because Tristan's run hadn't been
very long yet, and then they were ready to go
back to Jared Allen. So that's kind of the reason
too that you look at is Okay, maybe that's why
Isaac coccuero wasn't on the floor in the second half,
and you no, I think that with what he would
have been tasked doing, I don't know that that's where
(30:32):
the Calves needed the help.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Like I think they needed help to make shots.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And Isaac is certainly pre shoulder injury, was shooting the
leather off the basketball.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Hasn't been as good since.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Injuring that right shoulder, and that's a really difficult thing
to come back from in the middle of the season.
But they needed more offense, and I just don't know
that you're looking at Isaac mcuorro to provide that in
that spot.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Now, I'm with you, I mean, I really think you know,
if you're looking for a bit more space, a little
more shooting, a little bit more creation, you're going to
play and Sam Merril the majority of those minutes. And
that's what Kenny did. You know, Sam has a nightmare
shooting game. He go misses first six threes, and sometimes
you just have games like that where things just aren't falling.
(31:12):
And you know, it is always important to say, like,
people don't like it when we do the open three
point stats, but they matter. And the Cavs shot five
of fourteen on wide open threes. They shot four of
eighteen on slightly contested threes. So you know, nine of
thirty two on open or on wide open or somewhat
(31:33):
open shots is like, that's just a tough hill to climb.
You know, they didn't. I thought Orlando did do a
lot of interesting stuff. And like one thing I will
say is this was a game where you miss Evan
on the offensive end of the floor.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
One hundred percent. I thought that they missed his playmaking
more than anything on offense. Like, I think a big
part of his success this year has obviously been he's
been more aggressive and seeking out his own shot.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
He's been more aggressive going to the basket.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
He's been far less hesitant, I think beyond the arc
shooting the basketball.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But what he's been good at.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
His entire career I think has been the playmaking thing,
and that's probably been a little bit underrated from him.
But in watching that game, especially as you talk about
with the ball pressure, it's like, Okay, well, how would
this offense look different if Evan's making a few plays
and finding open shooters? How would things look different for
you know, Donovan Mitchell in particular, who spends a lot
of time on the floor with Evan mobile, Like, how
would that have changed his game that he had on Sunday?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I thought they missed him.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
And it's easy to say this in a game where
they lose, giving up one hundred and eight points, like
it was not a bad defensive effort by any stretch
of the imagination. But I thought it was clear they
missed him a ton on offense. And I don't want
to say they don't miss the defensive player of the
year on defense because that wouldn't be entirely true. But
they played well enough on that end of the floor
(32:48):
be like, eh, you could take the day off defensively
and you didn't necessarily feel it a ton and then
offensive was like I would have liked that there.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Well, yeah, I feel like the thing with Evan on
offense is because everything else in the machine is worked
so well. This year, it's felt like his offensive growth
has been the straw that breaks the camel back a
lot in a lot of these games. You know, you
look at that Memphis game where he hits three straight threes,
and you just felt like the game was over right away,
(33:15):
Like he hit those three threes and I'm like, all right,
we're done. We're done here he's bullying Zachy off the floor,
and you know, that's been so much of what he's
done has been that extra piece to push them over
the top, and very rarely has he had to be
the guy that's raising the floor for the offense. But
(33:37):
Orlando made a scheme change in this game. Jared Allen
just had a parade of free runs in the pick
and roll in that first half, and they were crashing
down hard. They were taking advantage of the fact that
the Cows weren't hitting, because again the Cows regenerating a
lot of open looks, but they were crashing down hard.
Darius had five turnovers, Donovan had three. I'll bet five
(34:00):
or six of those were in the second half of
just them trying to hit a pocket pass to Jared
in Orlando crashing in and forcing and hitting him early.
And if you're able to get Evan the ball, you know,
on those on those kind of slips at the top
of the arc or running an inverted pick and roll
(34:20):
or whatever it may be, there are things that you know,
as good as Jared's gotten with the ball, you still
don't want him taking five or six dribbles in a possession.
You know, you want one dribble, you know, step step,
lay up or floater or pass, like that's just that's
just where Jared's game is. And I felt like that
with no Evian on the floor or Lander just kind
(34:41):
of said, Hey, whatever you want to do, we're just
not going to give you those two steps, We're going
to make you. We're going to make you beat us
in another way. And I feel like that's part of
why the Cabs offense short circuit is because the thing
that was so successful went away and then it's it's like, okay,
well now what because running off ball stuff, no one
(35:04):
chases harder than Orlando off ball and no one's more physical,
blowing up screens than Orlando, And I do think like
that is where Evan raises the floor of the offense
as much as he raises the ceiling, because he can
just do different stuff that you that you just don't
get to do when he's not on the.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Floor, right, And I think that having another guy that
can too go and get his own stuff, like go
and get his own basket too, and that's been a
big I think a big plus of adding DeAndre Hunter
is having somebody else that's a little bit bigger, that
has that wingspan that can kind of create for himself.
Like I think he's been really awesome in that area.
But I think that they missed Evan's playmaking. They missed
(35:43):
him getting downhill to the basket, being aggressive. And I
don't know that Orlando can make the same adjustments they
made after that first quarter where the Caps scored thirty
eight points if Evan Mobley's on the floor, Like, I
think that that game really speaks to his importance side
on that end. And to your point about the turnovers,
Darius and Donovan combined to have eight turnovers on Sunday,
Seven of them came in the second half, so it
(36:05):
was a big adjustment that Orlando made, And I don't
know that the Magic deserves all of the credit for that.
Like I think some of that was a little bit
of a lack of maybe attention to detail on offense.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
But it's something that just Evan mobile. He solves a
lot of problems for this team, like he really truly does.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, they're one and three and their last four without Evan.
In games Evan has played, they're on a seventy three
win pace, And if he had played all eighty two,
and that doesn't include the Miami game, he left in
the first quarter. So, like, I mean, clearly they miss him.
Are you at the point now where you would say
(36:43):
he is their most important player, like the guy who
is most crucial for them to do what they want
to do? Obviously it's hard in tight margins here, right.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I think it kind of depends on the matchup, you know.
I was having a conversation with somebody about this a
little bit earlier today, And I think for the Calves
to win the finals in a I think they're gonna
have to get through Boston in the Eastern Conference. Like
I really truly feel strongly that's gonna be the Eastern
Conference Finals, and I think for the Calves to win
that series, Donovan Mitchell probably has to be the best
(37:14):
player in that series for the Calves because of how
well he's played against Boston, just because of the some
of the defensive stuff against Darius, and I think some
of the numbers with Evan against Porzingis have also not
been great. I think that has to be Donovan Mitchell
series and say they get past that.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
And okay, so he's waiting for them on the other end.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
That's the series. I think Evan needs to be the
best player in the Caves. Like I just think it
kind of depends. It's a matchup dependent thing. Like he
is obviously vital to winning I think any series in
the postseason, but I think like his importance level varies
maybe a little bit depending on who the opponent is
to and just how things look stylistically.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I think it goes to speak to how well these
top four dudes fit together that that is the answer,
Because I think you're right. I was getting ready to
just say it's Evan, but I think I think you
already swayed me off of that to say that it
is what I'm here for. Thanks buddy. I do think
it is going to be inherently matchup based, and I
do think it's reflective of how these dudes paper over
(38:13):
each other's weaknesses. You know, you could, you could certainly
make the case that it's Evan, But to your point,
if you're in Boston and you don't have Donovan Mitchell
for a game, and you're like, A, who's gonna just
create a bucket for us? Because that's not Darius isn't
a great bucket generator on his own. Evan is not
a great bucket generator on his own. Jared is not
(38:35):
a great bucket generator on his own. All great scorers,
all great, very helpful players, but they're not just the
you know, the ISO star that Donovan can be, especially
against that Boston team, and you know, with with if
Darius wasn't in the game, we'd probably be like, can
someone get us into the offense? You know, so it's
just like everyone covers up. You know. I don't think
(38:56):
any of those four guys, and certainly at the top three,
I don't think any of the those three have like horrific, glaring,
like five alarm fire weaknesses, but they do have things
that maybe they're like a B minus at and the
playoffs require playoffs require a lot of A pluses, you know,
and so the fact that these four I do think
(39:17):
it is so core to their identity that all of
these guys can have all these different A plus elements
to their game. And there's been a lot of talk
about depth in the postseason and top end depth, you know,
which is a bit of an oxymoron, but I do
think it's a real thing where like having you know,
That's why I think Boston won the title last year
(39:38):
because they had four or five guys who could literally
take over a half with their play. And I think
the Calves are right there with that top end depth.
They have enough guys who can get to an A
plus and whatever the game needs them to have that
you know, they they can. They have that high ceiling,
(39:59):
so they.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
They have the ability to, you know, And I think
this is one of the best parts about this team
is that on how many games can you look at
and in big games and just be like, you know what,
Jared Allen was one of the biggest reasons why the
Cavs won this game, Like you can, I can think
of the OKAC game in Cleveland that they won that
game because Jared Allen had twenty five points and however
(40:21):
many rebounds he had in that game, like he was spectacular,
or how many games did they win because Donovan Mitchell
was just a flat out superstar, Like you look at
the game they just won in Boston a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
That was absolutely part of it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Darius Garland has games like that, Evan Mobley has games
like that, like they just the top end depth, I
think is a great way to look at it, because there.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Are not many teams in the NBA that have the luxury.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Of the fourth best player on the team is somebody
that is as good as Jared Allen and also as
unselfish as Jared Allen, Like if I think that, and
he won't do this because this is not who Jared
Allen is. And that's part of the reason why the
Calves work. Like Jared is a good enough player to
be like I should get the ball more like I
should be scoring twenty two to twenty five points a game.
(41:04):
But that's not who Jared Allen is. And that's part
of the thing that makes this team so special is
that he is that talented and doesn't necessarily require some
of the maintenance that maybe other guys of his caliber
in other situations might I.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Was really thinking, like I was thinking that by the
end of Jared's tenure, he might be my favorite CAV ever,
just in terms of his complete, unique perspective, his general demeanor,
what a good duty is. Like, you know, I will
always remember that that poster where he tried to do
(41:41):
that I'm me, I'm him, and then he breaks out
laughing because he can't even hold on. It's trying to
be a hard ass for more than five minutes or
for more than five seconds. It's just immediately a collapse. Yeah,
they really do have it all, And like I do
think it really and maybe I'm over into on last
year's title because that's what we do, right. We always
(42:03):
try to learn maybe too many lessons from the most
recent success. But I do think, like I don't really
think it matters that much how good the middle class
of your roster is. If you don't have three or
four guys or you have a Yo Kicch or something
like that who can just consistently be supernova. But if
(42:25):
you don't have at least two dudes who can take
over a game for stretches, who can dominate a quarter
or two quarters, then I just think you're dead in
the water. And I think so much of what we've
seen from this season, and like, yeah, you have to
give Tie his flowers, you have to give guys like
(42:47):
Max Struce their flowers, and even Keras and Niang before
they were traded their flowers. But I do think so
much of their success is built around the ecosystem that
the the team provide. Like it's just not, like I've
said it a lot this year, I just don't think
it's that hard to play your best basketball for the
(43:08):
Cleveland Cavaliers this year.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
No, I couldn't agree with that more. And I think
a big part of that too, is this team when
they're playing their best, and even sometimes when they're not
playing their best, Like think to the buzzer beater that
DeAndre Hunter hit just before halftime on Sunday, and how fun.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I'm so mad that that wiped out by the loss.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Right, But like they have moments like that, and it
seems like this team just genuinely enjoys.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Playing basketball together.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
And I think that's a really rare and special thing
that should probably be a little bit like celebrated more
than it is by the public, by fans just like
this is so special because you don't often see this
and it doesn't last forever. But the way that this
team genuinely seems to love and Karen enjoy playing basketball
with each other is a really really cool thing to
(43:58):
watch on a regular basis too.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, I'll tell you what. I spent my whole life
hearing people complain that the NBA players don't care, are
only out for themselves, don't play defense, don't try hard,
And so I imagine everyone I grew up with must love
this Cavaliers team, and the in the in the entire
country must be falling in love with this Cavaliers team.
(44:22):
Oh wait, no, they're just complaining about something else. That's because,
for whatever reason, this is a sport. He goes that
that voice the most bad faith complaints. But yeah, it's
been it's been an amazing season. It's been a lot
of fun. Even after a loss. They almost it almost
does wake you up to how fun the year is.
We're like, oh wait, I have to feel I felt
like this like twenty plus times last year. You you know,
(44:46):
like it does really, you know, we've been very spoiled
and I did want before we said goodbye, I did
want to just take a look into the next week
for the Cavs because attorneys in town BA Baby Calves
are going on the road. We've got a five game
road trip at LA at Sacramento, at Phoenix, at Utah,
(45:08):
at Portland. Four of those five games very late, starting
at ten o'clock Eastern time or later. Before we dive in,
I'm going to give my forever precursor. If things aren't
going well, or maybe they're not going the way you
want them to, and you, as a fan, are finding
yourself getting a little grumpy drawing big conclusions, I just
(45:31):
want to remind you you're sleepy. You're staying up till
one thirty in the morning watching basketball and then probably
taking an hour to wind down after the game, so
you're really going to bed at like two thirty, and
then you're waking up at seven point thirty to go
work out, get ready to go to work, and then
you're just not sleeping enough, so you're grumpy. So just
(45:51):
remind yourself, dude, am I really mad? Or am I
just tired? All right, preamble over, Danny, what do you
expect from this West Coast trip? You know, on one hand,
this team has bounced back unbelievably well from losses, but
on the other it's just a grueling margin. This is
about as grueling of a trip as they're going to have, right.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
So I think that Tuesday's game is the one I'm
most interested in because one it is the one right
after a loss, and two it comes against a really
good defense. The Clippers are third in defensive rating entering
games on Monday for the entire season. Like that is
how they have built the record that they have. That
is why they're in the playoff picture out West is
(46:33):
because they're a really good defensive team. After that, I
kind of think this could serve as a get right
trip for the Cavs offense because you look at Yes,
Sacramento is on the second edge of a back to back.
The Kings will be rested that the Cavs won't be,
but they're a below average defense. The Blazers have been
a better defense lately, but they're still sixteenth for this season.
Phoenix has the worst vibes in the NBA and one
(46:54):
of the worst defenses too. Gee imagine that, and then
Utah is the second worst defense in basketball.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Like I think that if the Caves are the wheels
off on that campaign.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Oh my goodness, I.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Heard Walker Kestler took like six threes in the game.
I was like, Oh my god, it's just.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It is they have they have a goal out there,
and that goal is not to beat the Calves next Sunday,
but they the.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Casas is walking through these doors.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Danny, what a callback. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
But the Calves have been fifteenth in offense in the
month of March, and that's not who they are as
a basketball team. I think they're in a little bit
of a shooting malaise, if you will, and I think
that going against some of the defenses that they're going
to see over the next week and change is something
that could serve as a bit of an antidote towards
their their shooting struggles.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
As of late.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
And I would expect by the time they return home
next week that they will look much more like the
team that has been number one in offense virtually the
entire season than what we've seen lately.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
All Right, Danny, before we go, I just got because
we're probably not going to have you back on before
the end of the season, because there ain't that much
season left. I got to ask you, what's this team's
final record.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
The final regular season record. I think they are going
to go sixty eight and fourteen. I think that they
will lose three more games this year. I don't know
that they will necessarily play everybody in some of those losses.
I think that we could see some games down the
stretch where the Cavs value being a little bit rested
and healthy for the postseason as opposed to going all
(48:31):
out to win every single regular season game. I think
they're going to get to sixty eight wins and set
a new franchise record for the best regular season in
Cavs history.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Brother, I think I'm right there with you. I got
to say, I was really really hoping for seventy. Seventy
just felt like such a special number to reach. And
obviously it's not out of question. They could only lose
one more game, but they've had, you know, they've had
enough insane win streaks this season that I'm not counting
it out. But I do think sixty eight feels like
a really good number. You know, fourteen losses over a
(49:01):
basketball season is bananas, and it would be one of
the greatest seasons in the history of the sport, which
reflects how good this team is. So you know, I
think I think it's a very reasonable prediction and and
and very fair and would still put them. Well, now
here's the other question is do they hold off Okay,
see for the number one overall record in the league.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I think sixty eight wins would would do that.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
I think that's ok.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
He's probably gonna win sixty six if I had to bet.
And I think the craziest thing about what you.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Just said is I said I think they're gonna win
sixty eight games in euro That's pretty reasonable for prediction there.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, we're being we're being measured and cautious observers of
the game. All right, Danny, before I before we go
go ahead and plug your stuff. You do unbelievable work
and really really appreciate it having you on.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Well, I appreciate that you can find me every day
wherever you get your podcasts over at locked on Calves
coming your way just about every single day at.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
This point, weekends included.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
And you can find everything I write about the Cleveland
Cavaliers at my subsect.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
The inside Shot.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
Links for that and everything I do can be found
on my social media at really cunning him on Twitter
or Danny Cunningham on Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
All right, thank you so much. Go subscribe to Danny
Cunningham substack. It is unbelievable. It's some of the best
writing that you're going to see covering this team. It's
really really nice to get that extra perspective on top
of the pods. Also highly recommend your beginning of the
week whip around pods with Beat reporters or people who
cover each individual team. I think those are some of
(50:35):
my most informational and kind of quick, quick digestive snapshots
of what the Cavs week is going to look like.
So thank you so much for coming on, Danny, and
really appreciate you, and I really appreciate you listeners and
viewers of the Chase Down. If you'd like to support
the podcasts, go ahead subscribe on Subscribe resubscribe and help
cook those books. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead
(50:57):
and to hit the subscribe button on the Calves official
YouTube channel. Go ahead and like this video if you
if you're feeling if you're feeling kind, my deepest, deepest
and best wishes go to my poor sick co host.
We love you. So much justin get better. Thank you
so much for watching and listening and as always go
get
Hosts And Creators
Carter Rodriguez
Justin Rowan
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