Pacers Take Game 1 with Anthony Lima

Anthony Lima of 92.3 The Fan joins Justin and Carter to discuss his pre and post game coverage on Rock Entertainment Sports Network, as well as the Cavs performance in Game 1 against Indiana. They discuss what went wrong, what the Cavs can learn from the experience, and what adjustments may need to be made based on the players available for Game 2. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being what Carl slammed it out?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Carl left wing free ball.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Perfect, Darl b pop then hell left block the shot
at the rim. How it's the left hand head of fowl.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Welcome to the Chase Doown Podcast, part of the Caves
Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Down
was presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves.
Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports
and TV, including FanDuel Sports Network without cable. There's no
cost and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV dot
com Slash Calves. The Indiana Pacers struck first against the Calves,
stealing home court in game one, and the Calves might

(00:38):
be a little worse for wear as a result of it.
Joining me today to discuss this is my co host,
Carter Rodriguez.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
Carter, how you doing, buddy?

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I think it's our first. Our pets are our pets
heads are falling off of the year, you know, pretty
good to make it to May, uh before we have
one of those overall, though, you know, uh, Calves Land
less pleasant than it's been for the last couple of weeks.
But I did just have a nice anniversary trip with
my wife to New York. So you know, there's pros

(01:07):
and cons in this life. Yeah, you win some, you
lose some, and we got to win for ourselves.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Here making his return to the podcast from ninety two
three to the Fan as well, now doing pre and
postgame coverage for Rock Entertainment Sports Network.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Anthony lia Lima, Tony, how you doing.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Buddy, guys, It's an honor. I'm not gonna sit here
and act like I'm scared. I'm not gonna act like
our pets heads are falling off. Although if you listen
to some people, you would think that there might have
been more Utah jazz available after Rudy Gobert gave everybody
the COVID a few years ago. I mean, what happened?
What happened? The negativity as if we still don't have,

(01:46):
you know, pretty good players and a pretty good superstar
who I've seen score fifty on one leg before in
the playoffs. So I am I'm not going to be
deterred until maybe I see that injury report officially tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, the injury report is a little scary. I think
it's important to keep in mind that even if every
questionable player does not play, and you know that would
be a serious blow, you'd be losing basically, you know,
the driving force of your offense, and Darius Garland the
driving force of your defense, and Evan Mobley. You would
still be out there with an all starbuck guard and
an all star big man. And that is pretty much

(02:17):
the roster construction of the Indiana Pacers. And you have
a very good home court crowd. But before we get
into what went wrong in game one and kind of
look ahead to this series, let the people know what
you've been doing with that Rock Entertainment Sports Network or
I guess you know one game in to that experience.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I didn't screw it up too bad in the opener,
although some lady that showed up at the set, which
is right there in the atrium over at Rocket Arena,
when she found out who I was, she wasn't so sure.
She still wanted me to sign the autographs along with
AC and Booby Gibson, because I can't a value that
I can't do that, so I spared her. But no,

(02:56):
it's been fun jumping on coverage starting here in the
second round. A week's to have two months plus of
coverage with pre and post. You know, mostly an hour before,
hour after, depending on some variance there. But we're excited.
Kaylee Griffin, who everybody knows and Caves Caves Nation, she
is going to be holding it down. She is a pro,
along with Ac Booby and John Michael and Serena, John Michaels, everybody,

(03:22):
the whole crew and some of the cast of characters
over at Channel nineteen are locally in Cleveland a part
of it. So we are pumped. And I'm telling you
I signed up for two months. I did not sign
up for a week and a half. Okay, let understand that.
I hope I'm getting paid for two months.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
You're letting them know. That's what this is about right now.
As you mentioned, the coverage will start one hour before
tip off with these games Game two, it will be
a half hour just because of the earlier kind of
funky start time there. I excited to watch that on
Rock Entertainment Sports Network, and I should mention it's also
simulcast on My Cleveland forty three as well as fan
Duel Sports Network, so you guys can be checking it

(04:00):
out there before we dive into the Game one. More
piece of business. Kenny Atkinson officially Coach of the Year.
You know, he certainly earned it throughout the regular season,
and he may have to earn it in Game two
depending on availabilities. But I think the way that Kenny
has managed this roster all season long, no matter who
is available, you know, finding ways to get the most

(04:23):
out of the depth of this.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Team has been one of the major stories of this season.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
You know, I can tell you guys that he deserved
Coach of the Year because I do a sports talk
radio show from six to ten AM in Cleveland, and
there was nothing to criticize basically the entire season except
for one Oklahoma City game. Sorry, I got Cavalier Kitty
here trying to mess with the paper towels which you're
holding up the camera. Very high tech set up here.
But the fact that we didn't really have a lot

(04:51):
of anguish a lot of sports talk topics trying to
critique things that the Cavs were doing, which you know
is my land. Like, we had a filled time with
other things because we couldn't just sit there and pick
on them, and it was incredible. You know. Look, I
think one of the advantages I said that I thought
the Cavs had. It's why I had the over at
the start of the year on their win total. Was

(05:13):
familiarity right. They didn't have the turnover that some of
the rosters had, and I thought that if they could
just stay healthy, they're gonna win a lot of games.
I did not see this win total. I did not
see this level of dominance, the historical offensive numbers that
were there almost through the entire season, the wire to
wire number one seed, and you've got to give a
coach credit for that. Empowering players, which there's just I

(05:37):
love the way every time Kenny talks. I love, you know,
trying to get on his levels psychologically because forget x's
and o's, Yeah, he can do that. He's also got
assistance for that. There are interns around the league that
can draw x's and o's. You gotta have the players
to do it. But he knew he had the players.
He knew this was a great job to take. But

(05:58):
also that term power mitt and you could see the
Cavs grow in confidence throughout the season. Yes, it's a
regular season award. I'm fully aware they're down one game
to nothing, and I'm fully aware that there might be
some haters on social media that might be somehow pointing
the blame at him in game one. I don't see
eye to eye on that whatsoever. And I think he's
going to make some interesting adjustments, and I know we're

(06:19):
going to talk about it. But he deserved the award,
and by the way, no shade JB. Bickerstaff. He deserved second.
I mean, I thought he was spectacular this year. And
you know JB has got to do a lot of
growing as a head coach. I think Kenny Atkinson has
done a lot of growing. He would tell you that
in his role as a head coach. So no shade
on Bickerstaff. I thought he was great all year. Detroit

(06:40):
was actually if you don't mind getting in the muck
and in the mud. I thought they were fun to watch,
believe it or not. And in the end I thought
it was going to be a runaway, and I think
was it. To tabulate the results, there was a pretty
much a runaway.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
It was a pretty comfortable win. JB got a I
think Kenny had twenty more first place votes.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Do we feel bad for dag over there at Oklahoma City. No,
It's almost like Jim Tressel and urban Meyer couldn't win
Big Ten Coach of the Year ever, and Oklahoma City
was you know, they were so impressive, but you know,
it just seemed like this was Kenny's award from the
from the second half of the season on.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
I just think, like, you know, when we were talking
about these awards, it just felt like the most like
it was like the best science experiment you could have,
Like because we all know this is the award we
can judge the least well, right, Like we're not in practice,
We don't literally watch them coach, you know, we don't
know what decisions are theirs and what decisions are their staffs,

(07:42):
you know, unless they happened to tell us, and so like,
you know, we never ever really get to know whether
a player got better because he went in the gym
and worked hard and got his body right, or because
coach taught him a new way to think about his game.
Like we just don't get to know as much. It's
not as objective of a thing to observe, So you know,

(08:03):
I kind of felt like Kenny's whole year was like
the most you know, you know, like in a science experiment,
you always have a control group like feels like like
the rest of the organization was the control group because
everything was the same except Kenny. So like it was
very easy to ascribe a lot of this growth to
the things that he brought to the table and a

(08:24):
lot of the conversations he had with everyone. And you know,
you couldn't be like, oh, well, you know, like with Detroit,
you could be like, hey, yeah, they are a lot better.
That's awesome. But they also brought in a bunch of
adults in the room. They added It's Obias Harris and
as Tim Hardaway Junior, and a bunch of guys who've
been in the league for a while. They weren't just
playing a fleet of nineteen year olds this year. Like

(08:45):
you couldn't really say that about the Cavs, Like, and
like I have felt all year that just chalking it
all up to Kenny is like maybe not exactly what
I would do, though I think he's had obviously an
amazing year, and I think he should have been Coach
of the Year. But like, at the end of the day,
like what we can evaluate that a coach does well.

(09:08):
He did well. The rotations were good, he got good
contributions from the depth his stars got better, the offense hummed,
the pace went way up, Like all the markers that
you're looking for are there. And I think you made
the right point in terms of him wanting this job.
And I think I've said it a lot. Our listeners

(09:29):
are probably sick of me saying it, but I to
this day still think the best thing Kenny did with
this roster was want to coach the roster that he
signed up to coach. You know, I am sure that
guys went in and interviewed and talked about how they're
going to move ev into the five full time and
how you know, they really want to lean in on

(09:49):
Donovan as a lead creator, you know, because there were
a lot of there was a lot of you know,
people who even people whose opinions I respect, even though
I didn't agree with it, that felt that way that
they needed to streamline their roster construction. And it seemed
like from the jump Kenny was like, no, I'll take this.
What you got good for me.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's a great balancing act for us people that critique
or people like us that enjoy the game, and we're
trying to figure out and synthesize all this different information
with all these games in a new game to add
to the calculus every single time when you don't want
to give too much credit to the coach, because in
the end, it's gonna be the players. Like in the NBA.

(10:32):
We know just asked you ask Malone in Denver. In
the end, the players are the ones that are probably
going to be there. When we saw that with the Cavs,
so you know, part of me is like, yeah, I
think Evan would have been pretty good with a lot
of different coaches in the league. But there's no doubt
you could see a stark difference in the confidence in

(10:53):
the ball handling, in him understanding the angles and driving
at the point of attack. We already know we had
the defensive thing down. I mean we we saw that
his rookie quite literally his rookie year. I mean I
could even make an argument that I thought Evan might
have played better defense, you know, a year ago or
two years ago than he did this year. An he
wins Defensive Player of the Year. But it is a
testament to Kenny that you know, these guys are now paid.

(11:17):
You got guys that have real money or are in
line for some big time money. But where are the
egos and there are teams, whether you have young guys
or old guys, that balancing the egos is an impossible
pursuit around this league over time. And you know, I
credit Kobe Altman too, I mean GM of the Year. Sure,
why not for keeping the exact same team? Sounds crazy,

(11:40):
especially some of the names I was rattling off at
the end of last year that I was trying to
think about, should we break up the nucleus? Is this
team have a limited ceiling? And of course we'll revisit
all of that depending on how things go in the playoffs.
But look again, this Cavs team ruined my season as
a sports talk shock chock radio host because where was

(12:01):
the criticism? Where what people said, I've sold out, I've
been too much of a Homer this season. I've even
said nice things about Max Shruce. How does that happens? Good?

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Kenny Is As a loyal listener every single day, I
still found those little bits of information, those little takes
that you didn't have enough nuance on, And I've let
you know, and I've let Ken know every single damn
time because I am looking for things to be upset about.
And you know what that really makes this fertile ground
for me when the Cavs lose a playoff game, because
there is no shortage of that. I think one of

(12:31):
the great things that Kenny has done this season is
get the team to look like they're all on the
same page on both ends of the court. I think
it's been a consistent theme throughout this season. It just
did not appear to be the case to start Game one.
I thought, honestly, the point of attack defense was probably
the most jarring thing for me. Whether it's Donovan, Mitchell, Ty,

(12:53):
Jerome sam Merril, Max Struce, I honestly thought had in
the first half, probably had one of his worst defensive games. Honestly,
Art City Baby, all of them were really really struggling
on that end when it came to containing the point
of attack. And I think once you lose integrity at
that front line, it's going to get you into rotations,

(13:14):
it's going to get you scrambling, and you're going to
give up quality looks. And the thing that came to
my mind was, is this kind of like when we
would play Toronto in the Eastern Conference Finals and it
would affect Game one against Golden State. It reminds me
of you know, the two games, most recent games we
played against Boston, We're coming off forty point wins, and

(13:34):
I just feel like anytime you are in one of
those situations, it hurts your ability to be sharp in
that next game. So I guess the real question is,
is this the Miami Heats first win of the postseason.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
I love it. I love it because I've been ripping
on heat cultures. I know you guys have done yeomen's
work doing just that because they deserve it, and the
Cavs might have ended it once and for all. You're right,
maybe this was maybe this was from the grave pat Riley,
if we checked in on him as the godfather doing okay, yeah,
maybe Tyler hero is still talking somewhere about counting this

(14:07):
on his playoff registry. Oh look, it was jarring. It
was one thing I was legitimately worried about. I did
tell everybody like I was nervous about a quarter and
a half of this game going in. Not because I
didn't think we had the personnel advantage, not because I
didn't think that we were going to be successful in
the series. It was simply because it was jarring. It's

(14:29):
like going from you know, Algebras all of a sudden,
you're in trigonometry honors, like, yeah, it's a big step, right,
it's a huge step. And in this case, you know
what lessons? What did we learn from the Calves domination
of the Miami Heat other than we're good, we know
we're good. We care they might have a foot out
the door, and I think we would have beat them

(14:49):
if they had. Jimmy Butler like, that's how good the
Calves were. But what lessons did we really learn? And
sometimes and I thought this happened through some of the
wind streaks, for the Caves develop bad habits by winning.
And I know that sounds silly, right, But if you're
Kenny Atkinson, how are you gonna get your guys' attention?
It's one thing to talk about, Hey, take this is

(15:11):
a legitimate threat. Look at this pacer tape. Understand what
they are doing. They are better than maybe anybody in
the NBA getting you involved in the crossmatch circus and
getting you scrambling and getting you out of discipline closeouts,
and if you come out on the wrong foot, they
will take advantage. They understand how to drive baseline and
still with a head on a swivel to make sure

(15:33):
they can still find angles and shooters in the right
compartments on the floor. It's one thing to teach that
for those off days, it's another thing when you actually
see it. And so yeah, I was disappointed, like every
Cabs fan that it seemed like they were not ready
in that first quarter. And unfortunately, you know, when you
start losing guys one by one, some of that cohesiveness,

(15:56):
you know, everybody trying to have their hands on the rope.
But all of a sudden, the guy next ex he
was gone, and somebody knew is in, and the rotations
have totally been shaken, and you're playing a team that
you saw it, that was a confident team coming down
the road, a team that say what you want about
who they played to get to the Eastern Conference Finals
last year. In their mind, they're in the Eastern Conference
Finals team, and they came into the series believing that.

(16:18):
And they've got a good coach too. They've got a
championship head coach. You know, Kenny sat on some championship benches,
but they've got a championship head coach. So they were
not going to be intimidated. They weren't with all that said,
I'm sitting there in the third quarter saying this game's over.
I got a little cocky. And the Cavaliers got every
loose fall in that third quarter, they got, you know,

(16:39):
positive contributions for defensively, I mean, Isaac Mcoro, Max Truce,
bat out of hell, coming in and saving possessions. Evan Mobley,
your Cavs working really hard to win the fifty to
fifty loose ball. Luck was a luck yesterday. In that
third quarter, they did everything to turn that building around
to where it was essentially on fire, one of the

(17:00):
loudest crowds, Great Anthony said he had ever seen. And
then what did Indiana do? They closed the quarter. We
kind of maybe botched a two for one, you know,
Donovan Files Siakam and instead of your two for one,
they end up plus one on those final possessions. And
I was like, man, I'm gonna file that away because
that showed me that Indiana could take a CounterPunch and

(17:22):
they could deliver yet another one. And they were feeling
good about themselves going in to the huddle in the
fourth quarter. And I don't think there's a lot of
teams in the NBA that could have combatd that cavalanche
where the Cavs were swarming to that extent.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, it does feel like I do want to ask
about the readiness side of things, because like, you know,
I don't think I you know, I think there's some
people that could, you know, make the argument or make
the case like, oh, they didn't respect you know, they
got high in their own supply, you know, they they
didn't respect this Pacers team. I was kind of lean

(17:58):
the other way where I think they were all just
a little deferential stylistically, where they kind of let they
kind of hung back and and and let Indy kind
of dictate the terms a little bit. You know, Like
I don't know if like I think it was in
that third quarter quarter spurt when a Strus hit either

(18:20):
Alan or Mobley on the alley oop, like that empty
side pick and roll after the ball swung around and
like where was that possession?

Speaker 4 (18:27):
The whole game?

Speaker 2 (18:28):
You know, they were just spending so much time, uh,
setting these setting these these screens on nim hard on
the other side of the floor, not really getting an advantage,
not really pressing really just kind of like hanging, you know,
kind of like patiently letting him reconnect to the ball handler,
and like I and I just kind of felt that

(18:50):
way on both sides of the floor, Like they just
kind of were overly deferential to the style.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
You know.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
The coolest thing about that Miami's is the thing I
thought I learned about that Miami series was that the
Calves have learned that you need to hit first, Like,
and that's not like in the game in the game
like winning first. It's literally hitting them before they hit you.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
And I felt like.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Indiana really controlled the game physically because they were playing
so assertive, because they were playing their style. And when
I say physically, I don't mean the hard fouls. I
mean the pushing, the grabbing, the bumping. Like I just
feel like they hit first over and over and over again,
and I like, I just like left that game begging
the Calves play your game, your game. When you play

(19:37):
your game, you are better than them when they play
their game. And like that's like the best compliment I
can give to a Rick Carlile team is they're really
really hard to drag out of their style.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Well, what's funny is their defensive profile and I know
you can you can break them down from January on
and sometimes I get caught in that silliness with shooting splits. Look,
when halibert AND's healthy, they're different team. But even though
they've got guys that seem like they would hold up
perimeter defenders, they they've never been a great team defensive
unit the way that the Cavs. They don't have that ceiling.

(20:08):
But now eighty two games and you know, playing a
different team every night, that's done. The playoffs we know
are a different setup. And boy, card I didn't think
about it that way, the deferential. You know, I like
to see a little bit more meanness. And I know
again that's that's like easy from somebody on the outside,

(20:30):
like the niceties and even Kenny have to you know,
talking today, he didn't even want to throw any kind
of lob, any kind of big criticism or bulletin board
material about you know them and the way that they play.
He was even nice.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
He was talking about like that was that's probably the
angriest I've seen him all season. But he like he
kept it you know in the lines very much.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
So right, I would like to see a little bit
more nastiness, and it doesn't have to be Draymond Green,
you know, I think fans get caught up in that.
It certainly doesn't have to be that way, but you
know you can make them you're gonna play a playoff ball.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
You have to play playoff basketball. And like, one of
the coolest things to me about that Miami the start
of that Miami series, I was sitting right next to
my co host right over there, and they started in
full court press against the heat like that. They did
not play a possession of full court press all regular season,

(21:24):
And Kenny's Kenny, that's a tone setting playoff decision of like, hey,
we're gonna bump you from the first touch of the game.
When you think it's gonna be easy, it's guess what,
It's not gonna be easy. And like, I just don't
think they brought that because they were so concerned about
getting back into their shell against the against the transition

(21:44):
of the heat, and you could literally watch them thinking
they I mentioned it was brain fart city. Like there
were a lot of possessions where I didn't even feel
like Indy was pressing that hard. Like, by the way
everyone talked about how Indy dragged the Cats to their pace.
They played ninety nine possessions in this game. It was
a game for both teams. Yeah, it was not it

(22:05):
was fair.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
You wouldn't know it from the score. You wouldn't know
it from the score.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Fast for playoffs, but not fast for a regular season.
These guys shouldn't be like crazy gassed from this pace.
But like, even when Indy was going at like seventy
percent in some semi transition, you saw the Cavs being like,
can't mess up, can't mess up and transition defense, and
it's like, just be disciplined, just play the discipline that
you're used to playing.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Like, I don't like.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
I just felt like you watched them overthink and then
a short circuit on so many of those defensive possessions.
And yeah, I just feel like they got away from
themselves in a way there's like pretty unusual.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, And I think they let you know them hard. Yeah,
he's not listen, you know, do Dora the Cavalier Kiddy's
not happy either, you know, showing a little bit of feistiness.
There is a way in the NBA to find that line.
You don't have to be dirty. I don't think. I
don't think we as fans, I don't think we might
mind a little dirty once in a while just to

(23:03):
let everybody know, like you're not just going to come
in here and mess with us, and we can talk.
I mean, it's a whole other conversation about whether we
thought those files, which were certainly files that were not
called and inexplicably challenged, and I'm still I feel like
the NBA needs to do a better job of explaining
what happened there.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
To be clear, I think we can go over that.
I don't think that they were dirty place. I think
that they were trying to make the Cavs earn it
at the line. I think they were hard playoff files
and the fact that they weren't called was really surprising.
And the fact that you know, a lot of those
ended up leading to three pointers on the other end,
you know, in five on four situations, that's a backbreaker

(23:42):
in a game that was kind of decided by a
couple possessions. But I didn't think that they were dirty plays.
Like for me, I've talked to Carter about this. I'm
not really proud of it, but I'm a little proud
of it. I was a dirty player in high school.
I recognized a dirty play when I see one. I
don't think that that's what it was.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
I'm surprised, brother, I.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
You know, I went through absolutely all the emotions. I
wanted my pound of flesh after this game. You know,
I don't like seeing my guys on the injury report.
But you can't even retaliate with the hard playoff out
of your own if you're not running these guys off
the three point line. I mean, if they're just floating
around on the outside, you need to get that guy
driving to the basket if you're going to put a
little lumber in them.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
A game recognized game justin I didn't know you liked that,
but you know it's the true ball knower that you are.
I respect it, and I think any any edge that
you need to gain. But so it gets interesting, right
because I'm hearing the Cavs talk after the game, and
there's no doubt there's two things that Kenny Atkinson talked
because all the players echoed the sentiments in the postgame
press conference. The few that did talk, which was pace,

(24:43):
I did hear that a lot. And I also heard
toughness and physicality. I mean I heard it to a man,
every single one. I mean Ty Jerome was out there
talking about how fast. Indiana was again one thing to
see it on tape. It's another thing to see a
team that knows their idea, dentity and knows that's their
only chance, right Indiana. Whether or not they think they'res

(25:04):
talented as you, we know they're not. I don't think
you'd find anybody, even in Indiana that was being fair
that would that would argue otherwise. But they know who
they are. They and they and they once made a
playoff run where they were that and now you know,
you add you add Mathron who was injured last year,
you know, into that, and now you've got a guy
nem Hard who's become mister playoff three point shooter who

(25:24):
can't do it in the regular season. So there are
some things that that that confidence Getschen. I'm just telling you,
I watched, you know, seventy five feet like Max Strus
got body checked just trying to get back on defense.
Little things, right, It's little things, and they're not going
to call that a foul. And I don't even think
Max Streuce would be arguing for a file there. I
think it's just that they were going to make sure

(25:45):
that you felt them droughught And so my question is
in game two, depending on who's even going to be
out there, because you don't want to get caught up
in that too much.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
But are you going to.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
See some some token physicality three minutes in to try
to set the tone where, hey, if they call us
for a file, they calls for a file, No big deal.
You know, even Evan. Evan is the interesting one because
I didn't think there was a soul out there that
could neutralize Evan. I just didn't. I just didn't think
they had any there. A couple of times Evan got
an offensive rebound one against Myles turn Aroun. I'm like,

(26:17):
Miles is in good position and he can't get his
hand up because Evan has has has added that dimension
and skill and knows how to seal a guy off
using his bigger, bigger shoulders that seemed like they're ten
to fifteen pounds bigger in a mass is there that
wasn't there even maybe a year and a half ago.
So you know, Evan is a guy too. Can can
he set the tone? I mean we're in year four here,

(26:39):
it's you know, there are some guys that do have
some playoff experience on Indiana, but they're all the you
know Halliburton doesn't have a ton of playoff experience like
I think that You're right, Carter, I go back to
that deferential thing. There's no no, no time for that, now,
no room for that. You know. The Cavaliers get back
to that swagger, and I know it's not as not
as easy when you don't have Darius out. There was

(27:00):
part of that swagger, but you know, I think I
think a difference we'll see very early on if that
is something that they're going to come out and set
the tone with.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, they got to play their style.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
You you have to know what your strengths are, what
your weaknesses are, and play within it right.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Like, when you know your strengths and weaknesses, you.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
Can identify when a little bit of help is needed,
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zoom Ai Companion. The funny thing about the physicality was
I think we really felt it on the perimeter, right

(27:40):
like Indie with steing.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Which is how Andy does things.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, they were staying home to you know, a crazy extent.
They were forcing the Calves. Not only were the Calves
being differential on the defensive side and you know kind
of allowing Indy to have that freedom of movement on
the offensive end, Cleveland, they were giving them a red
carpet to the pay. Like typically when you talk about
physicality the types of things, you look at our second

(28:04):
chance points, offensive rebounds, points in the paints.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
The Calves had.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
A seventy to thirty eight edge in points in the paint,
twenty one to four edge on second chance points, and
a thirteen to seven edge in sec on the offensive glass.
Like typically those are those identifiers. But what Indy was
really doing was saying, yeah, like you can attack the basket,
but we're we're going to stay home. We're going to
make you feel uncomfortable from three.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
And this is a game.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Honestly, I reject the notion that this was a three
point variance game.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
That's part of the equation.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Don't get me wrong, Indies shot incredibly well, but when
you look at the wide open threes, Indy was thirteen
of twenty five on wide open three point attempts, the
Caves were three of eleven. When you're talking about they
got over twice as many wide open looks. I'm someone
that cares about process over results. You know, a little
bit of variance here and there. Yeah, the score was close,

(28:56):
but the reason the score was close had to do
with us winning the possession battle more than anything else
like that. And if we're shorthanded, they're going to have
to do that again, Like we're going to need to
kill them on the glass, We're going to have to
kill them on the interior. But when I'm looking at
those type of three point numbers, we didn't get the
type of looks that make me say, hey, we should

(29:17):
have had a good quality shooting game. Because for the season,
the Calves average twenty five wide open looks from three
against Indiana in Game one only eleven.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
I've got a real zag for you, fellas about the
health of the Calves offense. I think it's kind of bad.
They only had seven turnovers against that level of ball
pressure Like that tells me that the passing in the
movement was not where it needs to be. You know,
Kaitlin Cooper, who covers the Pacers, who does an amazing job.

(29:49):
And I'm paraphrasing because I didn't have the stat pulled up,
said that like per one hundred possessions, the Calves averaged
like two hundred and thirty passes in this game. Thirtieth
place was two seventy average in the league, you know.
And I think in general, there was just so much.
I thought they worked so hard, ate up so much

(30:10):
shot clock, chasing Halliburton on switches, and Haliburton in this game,
at least was not Tyler Hero, like he held up
way better on switches. And I think a lot of
it is all the work that someone like Andrew Nimhard
was doing before the switch, where you know, it's so
different attacking Tyler Hero with eighteen seconds left on the

(30:32):
shot clock than it is attacking Tyre's Halliburton with eight
with a perfectly set shell defense behind him, you know.
And I just felt like they were you know, I
don't think this Cavs team is at its best mismatch hunting,
and that is part of the playoffs. I understand that.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
We don't want to be the Boston Celtics. Come on,
we want to play ethical playoff basketball.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
You're damn right, we do, Tony, And like, I think
I just think they got away from you know, and
he mentioned it that their offense let them down, so
I think he understands that. But like that's why I
called out that struse you know, ball flow side, pick
and roll al U because of like, you know, it's like, oh,
there you are, guys, Like that's what you are. Like,
I think it is so such such a negative indicator

(31:16):
for this team on a night where you're not generating
consistently clean looks that Tye and Donovan combined for fifty
field goal attempts. The ty Jerome on a night where
he does not have it he's having, he had a
really you know, I would say one of his choppier,
high volume nights he's had in terms of just getting
stonewalled on some possessions, him having as many shot attempts

(31:39):
as Mobley and Allen combined, when when the Cavs worked
hard to get those guys to the ball just on
a normal pick and roll, you know, not even pick
and rolls where they were getting huge advantages. But because
Andy's interior defense isn't that strong and because they weren't
sending help, they got clean looks every single time. Just

(31:59):
felt like the prior alities were a little out of
whack in this game.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
The antidote to a lot of what you said plagued
them in that opening game, unfortunately, was in street clothes.
You know, I just think Darius Garland changes so much
of that. The assist totals, I mean right there, the
way that you have to defend, especially this year, Darius,
and what that opens up. And you know, we talk
about targeting guys, whether it's you know, mismatches or on

(32:27):
the other end, like getting guys and big men out
of sort, getting them tilted and getting the whole you know,
the whole side of the basketball floor in your favor
with numbers. I mean, Darius does all of that. He's
he's been clinical, he's been a technician at doing that
stuff this year, and you know, not having him, you know,
the reality is, no matter how many silly conversations some

(32:49):
people wanted to get going about Ty Jerome versus Darius Carlin,
when they're not competing with each other, they're quite literally
the perfect the perfect one to the other handem in
the league, when there was almost zero drop off when
either Donovan or Darius would go to the bench and
you know ty Jerome was leading that unit. You see

(33:10):
just how different they play. It doesn't mean bad. It
doesn't mean ty Jerome what he does is bad. It's ridiculous.
He's been sensational all year. It's just different. And you know,
I hope we don't have to see a lot of
different just for the sake of having to deal with,
you know, this injury to Darius, because the fact is,
you're just a different team when you go from having

(33:30):
a guy who played at an all NBA level for
most of the season who not on the floor, Like
that's I don't care what you say. That is a huge,
huge difference. You know, you can ask you know, the
Golden State Warriors when guys start dropping like flies. Next thing,
you know, Kawhi Leonard has you know, a ring in Toronto,
so and basketball Siakam certainly knows all about that. So

(33:52):
h that's that's That's all I'm saying. Like, you know,
there's gonna be a big discussion online and sometimes I think,
you know, Justin and Carter, you guys are just eternally online.
So you're going to allow these Pacer fans to get
to you don't let don't let you know Pat McAfee
and Caitlyn Clark get to you or Papa Halliburton.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
Oh don't.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
I've already picked a beef with some indie beat writer
that I've never heard of before today, but he is
now enemy number one. You're right, I think obviously Garland
would help a lot. I think it's something we've seen
over the last three years. Right in Mitchell's first year
with Darius, when Garland was on the court, they had
a top five offense.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
When he was off the court, they had the twenty ninth.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Last year when Darius was not himself, the Cavs were
not able to have a top ten offense. This year,
the Cavs have a historic offense with Darius on the court.
Best offense in NDIA history when he's on the court,
and thirteenth when he's off. So you know that floor
has raised. But when you talk about a team as
good offensively as Indiana, hey, if Darius isn't in the game,

(34:52):
you're going to need to get it done a little
bit more on the defensive end. And you know, I
think what Ty did in Game one isn't too dissimilar
to some of what he did against Miami, Like, the
shot quality has been tough for Tie all season long.
That's a guy that takes and makes a lot of
tough shots. They just needed something a little bit different.

(35:12):
And you know, Donovan and Tie combined for fifty field
goal attempts, they only generated fourteen potential assists, and they
got twelve assists on those fourteen, so it's not like
they were creating assist opportunities for other guys, and you know, hey,
they're missing their shots, so I'm just going to do
it myself. They almost shot one hundred percent off of

(35:33):
those guys passing. But when you have a ratio of
you know, fifty field goal attempts to fourteen assist opportunities
created between the two guards, yeah, you're going to feel like, hey,
despite the fact that we're getting into the pain at Will,
kind of felt like we got away from Evan Mobley
as the game progressed. It kind of felt like we
weren't capitalizing on Jared Allen rolling to the basket. And

(35:54):
I think that's one of the things that Darius does.
We all know that Donovan's the best player on this team.
He's someone that can go to a place from a
scoring perspective that nobody else can. But Darius is kind
of the still the primary driver of the offense overall,
and he does such a good job of understanding who
needs the ball when and keeping the Calves within their

(36:14):
identity offensively.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Whenever, whenever Steve Jones of The Dunker Spot talks about
this Calves team, the nicest thing he says, every time
he posts a clip of the Calves getting other teams
in the blender, he always says, the Calves just keep
making you guard, you know, like here's the first action
that you snuffed out. Here's the second action, here's the
third action, here's the fourth action, and you finally, you know,

(36:37):
the damn breaks and you and the Calves got a
wide open look. Or in the you know, a season
like this, someone hit a crazy shot, you know, and
and you know all that effort was for nothing, and
you need both of those pieces of the puzzle in
order to you know, be a championship team, like you're
not always you know, no team, the greatest teams in

(36:57):
NBIA history have to hit hard shots the score. But
like you can't build the whole plane out of that material.
I did not know about that fourteen potential assists that
I just I think that's a killer.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
It's a rhythm game, especially early in a series. So
I always draw a stark contrast when I talk to
people about why the NBA playoffs are different. The first
game of the series, when we had Lebron and had
the luxury of having Lebron feel his way out process
over the span of four to seven games. You know
how to combat every single thing, and he would take

(37:31):
it all into consideration over the course of the first
forty eight minutes or so, and sometimes in the game
two and then you would see it like, oh, I
got this, I got this, and now all of my
teammates are going to beneficiaries of how it's built on itself.
You know everything that I've been processing, okay, but when
you get to game seven, as you've seen the game
seven so far, you almost have to throw exits and

(37:52):
o's out the window. It's like, who's got legs left,
who can elevate over a defender, who can get by
a defender, and who can just put the ball in
the basket. By that time, you know, we've seen everything,
they've seen everything, Like we just got to go get
baskets because there aren't gonna be a lot of them,
and this is this is different. This was the first
game I like to see guys in rhythm. And I

(38:13):
know that the stat was circulating about Donovan Mitchell in
game ones the thirty points. Obviously, we know he's capable
of hitting every single three he took in that game,
with maybe the exception of the one that was blocked
right and they blocked a few on the perimeter with
some of that length, or guys chasing it, you know,
sometimes got a little lucky, or the Cabs maybe needed
one more pass. Though we know Donovy can make all those.

(38:33):
He can step into those at any time. What's so
gifted about his footwork is that he can actually jump
into a jump into a three point shot off the
dribble left foot. He can do it right foot. I mean,
that's Carmelo Anthony stuff, That's Kobe Bryant's stuff. There's not
a ton of guys that are skilled at him and
doing it. So I'm never crushing him on the shot
selection because if he takes eleven threes, I'm guessing he's

(38:56):
gonna add more than one. You know, the rest of
his career. I don't think he ever has game like that.
But the issue is when he's shooting those and just
stepping into him with eighteen on a shot clock or
fifteen on a shot clock, then you're not really making
Indiana have to buckle, think twice, tilt their defense, start
to get them scrambling in the way that they forced

(39:18):
you to get scrambling. And I would say the same
thing about Tye. It's not that I thought Tye was
taking any more difficult to shots. In fact, I think
they got it in their heads like, oh my god,
these guys, these guys cannot stop us from getting to
the hoop. But what you're also doing if you have
two players with the lion's share of those forays to
the basket, and obviously ty didn't shoot a ton of threes,

(39:39):
but then you've got Donovan, you know, settling for a
lot of those threes. Then other guys are just not
going to be in rhythm. Even when you don't shoot,
it's touching that basketball, it's being able to pound that
ball a couple times, throw to the opposite corner, and
now you've got everybody circulating on defense and not knowing
where that shot is coming. And then you know, just

(40:00):
quite quite honestly just wearing them out, and instead Donovan
Mitchell like, I don't think people realize. Yeah, he played
thirty four minutes. And I went back and looked, and
I'm like, wow, that's interesting. I thought, in a close game,
he's gonna play more minutes. And in a non blowout situation.
You have to go back to his rookie year to
find a playoff game where he played thirty four minutes

(40:22):
or less. And yet I watched him and I saw
his body language, and I'm like, man, this guy is
worn out because it is exhausting having to get out
there in the perimeter, make your first point of attack move,
get by one guy, and now oh I've got a
euro step, I've got a plant off my right foot

(40:43):
and toggle and jump to the left side, and now
I got to think about my finishing package, even though
they don't have a ton of shop blocking, and yeah,
he would finish. That's exhausting, guys. Yeah, and he did
that on like from especially that third quarter. He was
on it and he was taking the ball from three
quarters core all the way. In doing that, that is
going to wear you down. So box Score said, thirty

(41:04):
four minutes felt like a forty one minute game against
the Orlando Magic.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
And not only what it felt like, and not only that,
our buddy Spencer Davies just tweeted out a video where
he's talking about, you know, the Calve's injury situation, and
we know that Donoo is dealing with the ankle coming
into the playoffs, that is still apparently something that's bothering him.
He's apparently also dealing with some calf soreness as well.
You know, if we're playing the injury game, if we're
looking ahead to game two here, because my mentality really is,

(41:32):
you know, the Calves have found ways to win games
shorthanded all season long. We've seen them be competitive insanely
shorthanded against the Indiana Basers even right, so if they
can find a way to go out and win Game two,
if they are in fact shorthanded, then you have multiple
days off until you know, Friday, then you just have to,
you know, kind of compartmentalize in your mind, get us

(41:54):
split in Indiana, you have home court back. Hopefully we
get healthier as this series progresses. If we're going into
game two, and Kenny said that Mobley and Hunter are
both doubtful in his eyes, so we'll see what happens there.
Obviously DeAndre Hunter with a dislocated thumb on his shooting hand,
Evan Mobley dealing with an ankle injury. If Garland, Mobley

(42:19):
and Hunter are all out, I honestly think you have
to trust the depth that you have. You have to
trust the guys that have stepped up this season and
start tied Jerome alongside Donovan just to get that supplemental
play making next to him to us to lessen the
burden a little bit more. And then you you trust,

(42:40):
you trust a Craig Porter Junior to come into the game.
I think you need to have multiple ball handlers out there.
I think you need to find ways to make Donovan's
life a little bit easier rather than asking him to
be that primary initiator when he who's.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
Doing my starters?

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Who are your five starters?

Speaker 3 (42:56):
I think I would start Jerome, Chill, Struce, Wade and Allen.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
That sounds right to me. I like that take. I
wasn't thinking, I don't think that will happen. I think
Sam will continue starting, which I thought Sam had a
really rough defensive game.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
In games that honestly, that game was the difference between
Miami who was floating on the perimeter, and Sam doing
a really good job navigating screen stained you know, in
front of his man and guarding guys that actually have
juice off the dribble, right, because all those guys have
jewe like from a point of a tax standpoint, you know,
that's that's where that's where Sam and honestly even Tye

(43:38):
struggled to stay in.

Speaker 4 (43:39):
Front of the guys got the worst there by the matrix.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah, Tye is going to you know, he's going to
poke away, he's going to get steals. But he and
Sam are probably the weakest point of attack defenders. Honestly,
that's a strength of Darius is he's going to get
targeted because we switched so much and there's length, But
he does a good job staying in front of his man.
But you know, with the with the toe situation, which
Brian Wyndhor describe as turf toe on today's podcast, I

(44:03):
don't know if that's going to be the case, right, Like,
I don't know if he's at seventy percent, if he's
even going to be his normal self at the point
of attack.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
But cancer so going with if it is tie, you know,
I think the thing about starting Dean, and I think
you kind of have to start Dean because I think
Pascal is, like, you know, for being a generally normal
sized power forward, the best post scorer in the league.
Like I get why you know Jokich is, you know,

(44:30):
he's just got such an outrageous size advantage. But just
like in terms of the post bag, I think Siakam
can go up against anyone. I think it just makes
the most sense. However, if Evan doesn't play, I you're
going to have to play a lot of minutes small.
I don't think they want to dust Tristan off in

(44:52):
the series, though.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
I might have to.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
It might be an okay Tristan series, just because Indy
is not on the boards on the ball and and
you know, a little extra physicality and screen setting can
go a long way, because I don't think there were
a lot of great screen set in Game one. Uh,
But I do like your idea here justin I actually
think it is the right call just to say, hey,

(45:17):
let's play Cavaliers basketball, and Cavaliers basketball means two, three,
four guys who can initiate offense on any given play.
And I think there is the the other thing that
is not maybe being accounted if you just you know,
roll Sam and Dean out is you're not just losing
the playmaking at the point guard position with no Darius,

(45:39):
You're losing evan ability to run and to initiate in
the front court. And you just kind of need to
find it because Dean is just knocking. That's not going
to be who Dean.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Is a very very interesting guys. Obviously, let's uh, let's
get wild, right, let's get crazy. Uh. If that is
the case, it's worst case scenario. I think you're gonna
see a lot more zone. You know. I know it's
tough to really extrapolate anything from the regular season matchups
against Indy, but I think they ran like sixty six

(46:10):
zone possessions and it was like point eight points per possession,
which would be like dead last offense in the NBA.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
He struggles for zone. That was the last thing that
Pacers previous. That that is something that you know they
tuggled with.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
And look, I thought, you know the zone, you know
they if you notice it looked to me to the
naked eye, and I asked Booby Gibson, who was sitting
next to me while we were watching I'm like, did
they just did they just go from just standard two
three to matchup? And he's like, man, I can't tell,
And I'm like, I couldn't tell either. The way that

(46:43):
I and I listen. I'm classically trained at the two
three matchup zone for my years at Syracuse, so I'm
always looking for certain indicators, you know, on the wing,
and you know you could play it. Got Beheim had
like eight different ways to play their matchup zone depending
on the day, so he was always really hard to scout.
You wouldn't think the zone is, but I do think

(47:03):
it's it's a tool. Is it an additive? Might be
just by necessity in this series, and you know, look,
what do you give up in his own You give
up some rebounding. But I still the way the Cavs
can chase basketballs and they just seem to always have
an eye for it, and I thought they did in

(47:25):
the last game. Maybe it's worth using a little more
than you'd like to typically and just write a mess
with Haliburton because there's no doubt he got into that rhythm.
The possessions against Jared Allen. I've seen people suggest that
it's just not a Jared Allen series. Well, guess what,
we don't have the luxury right now. Yeah, it's an
everybody series. Who's available. I mean, you just gotta play
guys and still I mean Jared Allen phill had Haliburton

(47:48):
out twenty eight feet in the basket taking some shots
that are not easy.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
With those, Yeah, you have to live with those, right
and if they kill you with the shot making, I
think you do it. But like I think we got
as Carter said, we got away from our identity.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
We were over helping a whole lot.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
We were scrambling defensively, and I think this is just
going to have to be a series where you stay
home a little bit more. We have a lot of
guys that are very good at screen navigation. Zach Low mentioned.
You know that the cast face thirty six ball screens,
and you know the rate at which they switched those
ball screens was the third highest of any team this season.
I think you have to trust the guys a little
bit more, particularly, like you know, I was sitting in

(48:28):
that game and I was like, I don't know if
this is a series for Sam Merrill. I don't know
if this is a series for Isaac o'corral, Like I thought,
o'corral's first shift started off really poorly, and I thought
he was actually very good on Halliburn. Then I thought
his second half was very difficult. I was like, you
know what, this is probably just non o'coro series. Guess
what now it's going to have to be if these
guys are out of the lineup, Sam's going to need

(48:50):
to play, Ocoro is going need to play. You're probably
going to need to play. Craig Porter Jr. And who
knows Javonte Green is going to play, And you might
you might even want to dust off a Jalen Tyson,
someone who's going to buy you some extra possessions, place
with some physicality and has a thirty ball against Indiana.
You know, maybe he's got a little bit of confidence here,

(49:11):
he's shot here, he shot great in garbage time against Miami.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Well yeah, what Miami was great garbage time pregame, post
game at Live after the you know Club eleven, I
mean they I think it was all time to score.
I think, listen, it's all on the table. And you
know these are these are tough. These are tough because
you know, you start going through these scenarios. But the
one thing I know is, like I just the shooting

(49:37):
variance thing. You started out justin saying that, you know,
you're a little agitated. People are just gonna chalk a
game up to shooting variants. Then what are we even
doing here? Why even try to break down the game?
There's a cause and effect of all of these things.
I do think, you know, the guys that are gonna
play for the Cavs, they're gonna be some desperation, and
I think it's gonna be a little harder for for

(49:59):
Indiana this time I'm around. And when a team makes
it at the rate that they just made it, sometimes
they can be a little shell shot when some of
those are in and out or or or don't fall,
and that that starts to break up the rhythms.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
So I happened. We watched this happen to the Cavs
in Game two against the Heat. They go nuts in
that second quarter and then they stop going nuts, and
the like how do.

Speaker 4 (50:22):
We play basketball? Again?

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Like it does just break your brain a little bit
when you're that hot. Like I will say though, like
this is an indie team that can shoot, and and
I don't want to hear any one site that Andrew
Nimhart is a twenty nine percent three point shooter to me,
because I tweeted this out. He shot sixty fifty five,

(50:47):
fifty four and forty nine percent from three in the
four playoff series he has played so far. And I'm
gonna quote Steve Jones again and say that you'll live
with it until you can't live with it, And like,
drove men, this is about eighty two game sample you have,
Like you're gonna have to run these guys off the line.
You're going to need to have discipline, you know, if

(51:09):
you are gonna switch everything, well, you also can't be
in constant rotation like you like the switches to is
designed to not give that stuff up. So like that
is like the thing that makes me the most encouraged
coming out of that game one is like all the
stuff from like you're just not playing well and like
the the injuries are very very scary because now you're

(51:31):
just gonna depend on guys to you know, your ceilings
a lot lower without an Evan, without a DeAndre, without
a Darius. But like we know, this team's floor can
be very very high even when they're playing the eighth, ninth,
and tenth guys in their rotation. It used to drive
me nuts when when Daryl Morey would sit there and
he'd say, well, you know, it's a shooting variants like,

(51:52):
you know, small samples. Sorry, a playoff series is a
small sample, right, Like and I think Carter and I
will point out at times when we think, hey, this
is the shooting variance game, like that first loss against
Atlanta where the Cavs I think had like thirty four
wide open threes and couldn't hit any of them. Atlanta
had way fewer and they hit all of theirs. That'll
point to.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
But when you're talking about eleven wide open threes versus
twenty five, there was something wrong with your process. If
you brought that to the middle where it's seventeen and
seventeen and you know, hey, they just shot a little
bit better on theirs, that's a different story. But you're right,
Carter about Nemhar, to think, you know, we're so familiar
with the context of our own team, we missed the

(52:31):
fact that Andrew Nemhar missed a bunch of time this
season and it took him a little time to defind
his rhythm previous years. You know, he's been a thirty
five thirty six point three point shooter, like he's not
a twenty nine percent shooter. You're you're going to have
to respect this guy here, and you're gonna have to
respect all of these shooters. You're going to have to
make them feel uncomfortable because once teams find a rhythm,

(52:53):
if you're giving them rhythm jumpers and you're not playing
defense before the shot in the first half, they're going
to be in a groove and it's going to be
a whole lot harder to turn that fast off when
you start contesting those shots in the second half.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
And by the way, guys, speaking to the whole variance
thing is it's a you know it when you see it.
I've seen enough James Harden Game seven and big playoff
moments to know when a sampling is now significant and
is now no longer a noisy sample. So I'm with
you there.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see who the Cavs
have available, who Kenny goes to. You know, he's already
earned that Coach of the Year, he might have to
earn it a second time over Lama. Before we get
you out of here, is there anything that we haven't
touched on that you want to mention before we wrap
this thing up?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
That Max Trews can play my dodgeball team anytime. What
a save? What to save? The crowd? I'll tell you
the crowd and everybody knows what I've said about Max
Strus that was around me watching the game, the amount
of see that, did you see that? Did you see that?
And he didn't even shoot well, but it was like this,
this is the effort you need. And I did say
on our postgame show afterwards, like, man, if they had

(54:00):
eleven Max Struses in terms of effort from the moment
the game started, probably wouldn't have been, you know, a
close game down to the wire. I think the calves
would have been okay.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Yeah, Matt, Max, you know, we talked about it before.
I think the effort is almost always there. I think
he's someone that you know, holds himself and everyone else accountable.
So we're going to need a big Max game if
those guys are out, We're going to need a lot
from Max. We're going to need a maybe a shooting
variance game of our own to tie this up to
one to one. And you do that it's a new series. Hey,

(54:33):
I picked the Calves to win in five. I believe
they can win four out of five games. I don't
think it's over if they go down oh two. You
just don't want to be in a situation where you
have to win, you know, multiple games like that in Indiana.
You want to make life a little easier for yourselves.
You want to take that pressure off, and you don't
want to be susceptible to you know, a potential shooting
variance game if you outplay them down the road. So big,

(54:54):
big thanks for you taking the time to come on
the podcast again, everybody. You can check out lineas coverage
fore and after Cavs games at Rock Entertainment Sports Network,
simulcast on my Cleveland forty three and fan Duel Sports Network.
Big thanks to every big thanks to you, Tony, Thank
you so much for coming on. Always enjoy talking to you.
Big thanks to everyone tuning in live on YouTube. Make

(55:14):
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Speaker 4 (55:28):
However, you juice to support us, we really do appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
You sure you guys are staying safe out there until
next time, Okay,