March 24, 2025 • 43 mins
Justin and Carter react to the Cleveland Cavaliers getting back into the win column against the Utah Jazz. They discuss how the defense propelled the victory, and whether the win could help the team get back on track as they look to complete their road trip.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This crowd rises to its being what Carl slammed it?
Oh Carl, left wing reball, perfect.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Pop, then a block, the shot at the rim, how
with the left hand and of fowl. Welcome the Chasedown Podcast,
part of the Calves media family. I'm your host, Justin Browan.
The Chase Doown is presented by Fubo, the official streaming
partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty
channels of live sports and TV, including fan Duel Sports
Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try
(00:30):
for free at foobotv dot com. Slash Calves. Well, it
wasn't always pretty, but the Cleveland Cavaliers found a way
to pull away against the Utah Jazz and and their
losing streak. I'm feeling better finally get to see a win.
It's always a little concerning. It seems like these afternoon
games have given them trouble. But the Calves got the
W and I'm I'm feeling w's right now because I'm
(00:52):
joined by my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Carter, how you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I'm glad we weren't soon beat against Uh That's all
you can really ask for. A late season trip to Utah,
especially for an afternoon Mattine game where the Cavs have
not been playing their best ball in those settings, and
with them playing their worst basketball the season, and you know,
first off, way better to win than lose. You know,
(01:18):
I don't know if I feel like everything is solved
as of yet. I still think there's stuff to get
cleaned up. There's still some form questions, concerns I have
a little bit. But like at the end of the day,
you know, I don't think they played their best game
and they won by twenty nine points.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I did not feel like this was a vintage
Cleonton Cavaliers basketball win, right Like, I don't think that
this was necessarily a return to form from the best
versions of this team that we've seen. But what I
will say is I did feel like from the start
the defensive effort was there even when the shots weren't falling,
and that hasn't consistently been the case. I think think
(02:00):
we've seen at times that you know, the defensive effort
falls off as.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
The shots aren't falling.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know, they're a little late on the rotations, the
scrambles are half step slow. I felt even in the
first half where Utah was able to hang around. The
defensive effort was consistently there. Guys were you know, diving
for loose balls, they were rotating, they were communicating, and
(02:26):
if they're going to continue to go through a bit
of this stretch, which we can get into later on
whether or not we think this is going to continue,
but reality is they have been on the road for
a very long time. They haven't played in the same
city twice since February twenty fifth, when they so they've
(02:46):
been traveling between every single game. And I understand some
of those games are at home, but when you're only
there for an evening, it's just it's an extension of
the road trip. At that point, you're never fully getting
any rest. And I think that that nothing's coming out
of the bags. Yeah, exactly right. I think Danny Cunning
on Lockdown Cass has said basically over that stretch, they've
(03:08):
had four nights at home, like that's that's nothing, right.
So I do think that that is having an effect
on these guys. I think it was big that they
were able to win comfortably enough that a lot of
the starters got to sit for you know, the end
of the third quarter and the entire fourth quarter. But
I think fatigue is definitely a factor. But if you're
(03:29):
going to be playing with some tired legs, if your
shots aren't going to be following at the clip that
we're accustomed to getting it done in the least, committing
on the defensive end, I think is a step in
the right direction.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, I mean, I just thought in general, the energy
was a lot better. You know, I think there was.
It's tough because this Utah team is in such rough shape.
You know, there are a lot worse than they even
were last year in terms of the guys they have
on the floor. You know, no John Collins, no Lowry
(04:01):
Mark and then and so you know, they're playing some
guys that I just think, you know, Cody Williams ain't
Jalen Williams, he ain't his brother, and so you know,
I was trying to kind of identify the spots where
it was like, are they giving up open shots and
Utah isn't able to convert or are they locked in?
(04:25):
And overall I think they were pretty locked in. I
think that there were a few possessions where they certainly
got they didn't have to guard as hard you know,
like because you know, Utah had a lot of guys
out there that maybe weren't the best shooters, you know,
at different parts of their roster. But you know, the
game is the game, and I think I think they
(04:46):
played their opponent well, they played the scouting report well,
they left the right kinds of guys open, they crashed
down in the right spots. You know, they they forced
eighteen turnovers, They had seven combined as a team at
nine steals. That tells me at least the energy was
going a little bit yep.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, And you know, I had the eye roll when
Walker Kessler hit a three three pointer in the first
half because I was like, come on, seventeen percent three
point shooter is going to go out there and start
hitting shots on us. He ended up going one for eight,
which is just under thirteen percent, So you know, he
shot his career averages.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Eight three point attempts. Is no comment.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
What that is is getting to explore the space.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
That is, Yeah, you know, we're not playing for wins here,
Let's try to expand your game. Jared Jackson Junior got
to do a lot of that last year, where.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Hey, that Andre Drummond taking threes for us a couple
of years ago.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Hey, hey, hey, that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Was that was some fun basketball. Carter, don't don't you
dare talk down on Andre Drumm and exploring the space.
But yeah, there were definitely you know, as you said,
whether it's Walker Kessler throwing up threes or some of
the other options that they had, you're not going to
need to close out on them the same way that
you have to against Kevin Durant or Royce O'Neil. But
(06:07):
I thought the overall defensive effort has been a lot better.
Mobilely struggled in his first game back from injury. Defensively
against the Clippers, I thought, even though the Suns game
didn't go our away, I thought his defensive effort and
impact was back. Kevin Durant pull up jumper it was crazy,
which is just about the hardest thing you can do
(06:29):
in basketball. That is one of the most difficult shots
to defend period in the league.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So and then Durant, by the way, answered with like
nine pull up it's in response. It was like it
was almost like oh okay, and he definitely wanted to
get his back. And Kevin Durant is still very good
at basketball.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yes, he is and you know, I just think that
it's at least a foundation, right because for the most
part the offense, those struggles have kind of continued. We
haven't been hitting threes at the rate we're accustomed to
another tonight, crazy like honestly, that that really goes to
show that you're out of a rhythm, right when when
(07:13):
you're even missing all the free throws, it's even when
they get to the rim at times, it's they haven't
been finishing the way that we're used to seeing. And
I don't know what's if there's any one thing that's
solely to blame for the rut that they're in offensively,
but I do think at least getting the win, getting
some of that confidence back, pulling away in the way
(07:34):
that they did, can at least help gain some positive momentum.
Which you know, basketball, whether it is within a game
or if you're talking about an eighty two game season,
it's a game and it's a season of runs. It
is such a momentum sport, and sometimes you just need
to see a couple of them go down for you
to gain your confidence as a shooter. Sometimes you just
(07:55):
need to get that one win to start rattling off
wins again, So I hope that this can at least
be a catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, And I mean, I think it's also important for
this team to kind of remind themselves that they don't
need to shoot well to win. You know, I think
they started leaning on that a little bit as a
crutch of like, you know, Okay, if the three pointers going,
we feel great. If the threes aren't going, maybe we
don't feel so great. They shoot twenty three percent in
(08:23):
this game. They go eleven of forty eight, which, man,
that's a lot of three point attempts. I know, I
know a lot of them were open, but you know,
we're bored, We're we're pressing my comfort ability there with
that much. It was literally half their field goal attempts.
But you know, they go eleven of forty eight from three,
they go thirty thirty three of forty eight from two,
(08:46):
and they get to the room consistently. They're forcing turnovers,
they're getting out and running, and they're winning and scoring
in multiple ways. You know, it's really hard to score
one hundred and twenty points when you shoot twenty three
percent from three and sixty eight percent from the free
throw line.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, and I think it.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Goes to show that there are a lot of roads
up the you know, the proverbial mountain here, and just
because you're not in great form as a shooter doesn't
mean that you just have to shrug and be like, well,
that's the only way. We just got to hope we
make them, because like the Calves never made them in
this game, and it didn't matter on you're just scoring
(09:25):
one hundred and twenty points.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, And that is my preferred way to go about this, right, Like,
let's attack the rim. Let's try to if we're going
to generate open threes, have it be because we're attacking
the rim, the defense is collapsing, and we are generating
quality looks Like, I don't want to settle for threes,
and I do feel like the offensive process hasn't been
(09:47):
as crisp as it has been throughout the season. I
do feel like they are settling for threes. You know,
not to pick on anyone in particular, but Sam Merril
when he in the first half took a pull up
kind of one on four or free in transition, it's
a decent look. On nights where you have it rolling,
I'm fine with that, but you have to value the
(10:09):
shots is, particularly when you're overall in an offensive rut.
I think you need to work to get better looks.
And I was encouraged actually at the start of this
game against Utah, where Donovan was really getting to the rim,
he was getting to the rim at will. I thought
that they were generating very, very quality looks. I thought
Walker Kessler was having trouble defending in space, and I
(10:31):
was like, okay, perfect, let's attack. Let's keep getting this,
you know, let's force Utah to make us do something different.
And I felt like we got ourselves out of that
offensive rhythm. I thought after that start, all of a sudden,
we started going for that knockout punch. We started to
take more threes without really working the ball and generating high,
(10:54):
high quality looks, and I just felt like the offensive
process overall wasn't as good as it could have been.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, an eighty eight point five offensive rating in the
second quarter where Utah kind of made their run back
and Kavs went o nine from three. I didn't think
they took the best threes, but I think the probably
the most problematic thing is only three assists in that
second quarter, So the ball kind of wasn't moving the
way it was to start the game. The down downward
(11:22):
momentum that kind of made it hard for Utah to
stick with them kind of went away. They got more
to side to side basketball, and you know, of course
they just missed a lot, which is tough. But you know,
like I do think, I do think you're right that
this is still a team that's like kind of like
and I think that's where both of us are kind
(11:43):
of on. This is nice, but I do want to see,
like we want to see some of the underlying performance
metrics tick back up a little bit before we feel
like they're out of the woods with this rough stretch
of play.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think part of how the Cavs
are built lends itself towards being able to make these pivots, Right, Like,
there are stretches where offensively, our identity is going to
be centered around the guards, right, they are going to
generate good looks for themselves, They're going to generate good
looks for everybody else. We can really lean on them
(12:20):
offensively when you're in ruts like this, and when you're
in kind of this you know, long road trip, bit
of a rock fight I'd like to see us lean
more and more on the bigs, and I just felt
like we haven't been consistently doing that over this stretch.
And Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are able to generate really,
really good looks for themselves. They are such intelligent players
(12:42):
in space, in traffic, They're able to generate rim pressure
in ways that you know, frankly, no one else on
this roster is really able to do at that same level,
even if it involves when you're in those one big
configurations getting DeAndre Hunter as the role man and trusting
him to finish or draw contact at the rim. I
(13:04):
would just like to see us attack the rim more
and not settle into well, this is our shot profile
when everything's rolling, so let's almost speak it into existence.
Let's take these same shots and trust that they're going
to fall. I really feel like once you kind of
get that rim pressure, once you challenge teams and they
are changing what they're doing defensively to take that away,
(13:26):
then you can start opening things up and taking those threes,
and if it's not falling at that point, at least
you can say, hey, they were really cheating to take
away the rim. These were the looks that we were
able to generate. We trust that these are going to
fall at some point, but I don't feel like that's
the case. I feel like we are the ones dictating
our shot selection more than what the defense is doing.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
At this point.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, I also, I don't know. I was thinking about
how when you're slumping this hard as a team, shooting
it does get break your brain a little bit, because
when you do want to run your offense the way
you normally run it and the defense collapses, you're supposed
to kick it out right, and when you kick it
(14:10):
out to an open shooter, they're supposed to shoot it.
So and I feel like as they've been, you know,
so icye teams have you know, I think the Calves
have gotten a lot of open looks over these last
five games, and I have noticed. I feel like, when
you know, and I certainly feel like the Calves have
(14:30):
done this when the other team clearly didn't have it,
you're like, oh man, we really get to worry about
the rem tonight, you know, and we get to collapse
a little harder, because until they start killing us, why
would we why would we? You know, the only place
they're getting us is at the rim, so let's just
protect the rim. And like, anecdotally that's what I feel
like I've seen is like, man, well they're making you know,
(14:52):
there are possessions where I'm like, yeah, they're getting in
to the teeth, the defense collapses and then they have
to kick it out and so that that's so I'm sympathetic,
I guess, But like that's where I think your point
about running things through the bigs and attacking differently is
that's your skeleton key, that's your solution because you're at
(15:15):
least like one. It's harder for them to dig down
and help when it's Evan initiating or Jared catching it
on the move, you know, and and finishing as opposed
to you know, when those guys are catching the ball
near the rim and getting the ball into scoring position.
It's just an easier finished for them than Darius air
Donovan because they're massive and those guys are small, right,
(15:37):
So like, if there is extra help in that paint,
the bigs are going to finish better than the Smalls
against that extra help just you know, writ large, you know.
So like I think that's why I've been disappointed to
see them not go to the bigs as much, because like,
change the rhythm of what you're doing when the base
(15:58):
system isn't working, because one, you'll get stronger at those
at those, you know, like where you let Evan just
run the offense for a quarter, like your your group
can kind of congeal about around that, and then it
does change the rhythm for the guards. You know, if
Donovan's pull up game is really not there, like giving
him a bunch of catch and shoot attempts in a
(16:20):
row probably goes a long way, like changing the rhythm
of where these guys are catching it when the current
rhythm is not leading to to makes. And this is
all very soft, squishy stuff which is really hard to analyze,
especially as like non players and non coaches, because like,
we're not guys going through shooting slumps. You know, we're
(16:43):
not coaching guys out of shooting slumps. So this is
all very squishy and very theoretical, and you know, it's
very possible any member of the coaching staff or player
might listen to this, which they won't, but if they did,
they might listen to this and shake their head and
be like, these guys don't know what they're talking about.
But that's the challenge of dealing with performance dips like this,
(17:04):
especially as shooters, because it's like, how do you break
it out of it? Or do you just have to
kind of white knuckle through it. I don't know the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, I think you're right. When the bass system isn't working,
that's something that can just kind of break your brain
in a lot of ways. But sometimes it's nice to
know even when the bass system isn't working, there's a
backup system that's there supporting you. Carter, just like zoom
Ai Companion. Because only you can do your best work,
zoom Ai Companion can help you do the rest, like
automatically taking notes, answer meeting questions, and helping you respond
(17:33):
to your coworker. Available at no additional cost with eligible
paid plans. We're happy with zoom Ai Companion. It's funny
looking at the wide open looks that the calves have got.
The UTAH data isn't in the mix yet, but at
least for this four game the losing streak that preceded it,
they were getting a decent number of wide open looks
(17:53):
for the season. They take over twenty wide open threes
per game where a defender is not within six feet.
Over the losing streak, it was seventeen point five. They're
shooting forty one percent on those looks for the losing streak,
so you know, it's only one percent worse than they
shoot on the season for those looks, but and it
is three fewer, but they were getting a decent number
(18:15):
of looks. I just feel like some of those semi
contested the lake contest and just how they're getting to
the shots hasn't felt as good as it has at
other times.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Of the year.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And obviously, when your guards have been going through a funk,
that's going to make things tough. I feel like Darius
has mostly broken out of it. Tonight wasn't a great
night for him, but he started to get hot, and
then him getting hot him and Donovan getting hot in
the third quarter basically put the game away, so they
didn't get a chance to continue.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
How about Tye finally hitting a few that was big
for Tye?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
That was tremendous.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Honestly, ty Jerome and DeAndre Hunter both coming out there
and having big games off the bench I thought was significant.
I think that that is the kind of thing that
you really need to have going If you're going to
continue to have some success on this road trip and actually,
you know, close it out on the right foot.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Absolutely, And I mean I think, really you look at
those the three guards, you know, because this team really
has three guards that play now in Tye, Darius, and Donovan.
Tye has gotten his numbers up a little bit. He's
you know, he's up to forty six from the field
and thirty one from three. Darius is at thirty nine
(19:30):
from the field and thirty two percent from three, and
Donovan is at thirty three percent from the field in
sixteen point seven percent from three. He hasn't hit a
three in his last two games. That's alved for the
munch a month of March for these guys, and like
there is a little bit of like an inherent like
there's nothing to analyze here when those three guys are
(19:53):
slashing that poorly collectively, they are the play initiators for
this often for the most part. Yeah, And it's not like,
you know, and we can make the Evan argument, and
I still think we should that, Like we want to
see Evan initiate more and run things through the bigs,
but it's not like his usage is like cratered this
(20:15):
month and they've stopped running the ball through him. We
just are wanting it more because the other the alternatives
don't feel as good as they normally do, right, Right,
So like I yeah, it's just it's just a funky,
funky time of year, which is not particularly mathematical. But yeah,
Evan Evan's usage for the year is it twenty two
point six? Looking it up live? Bear with me, Oh god,
(20:39):
it's not loading. Justin it's over. It's over. I'll let
you know, I'll let you know, Okay, hashtag I'm twenty
two point eight. It's higher, higher in March than it
has been for the year.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, it's funny because it when I look at this team,
there's nothing that jumps out that like red flag sirens
going off, like last year when I was very clear
that Mitchell was moving around on one leg and Darius
was the shell of himself physically and was kind of
(21:11):
fading away, right, Like, there are times where there's just
kind of boneheaded mistakes, Like some of the turnovers Darius
has had over the stretch are just too ambitious. Right,
You're dealing with guys that are mentally and physically tired
and you are throwing a rocket pass through traffic, bouncing
(21:31):
and you know, making it a very very difficult catch
for someone like Jared Allen who's rolling to the basket.
You can kind of tone that down and let's let's
go for you know, a more higher percentage play. Like
I liked him going off the glass, but nobody else
was on that. See, nobody is on that wavelength, right,
(21:51):
like those unforced errors. I think that you can do
a better job of kind of mitigating. But for the
most part, like when I see Donovan moving around, some
of the misses are really bad, but he looks fine
to me physically, Like, yeah, I think so too. And
Kenny talked about that after the Sun's game, where it was, Hey,
is that growing something that's bothering him? And he says that,
(22:12):
as far as I understand, it's not. Our medical staff
has given him the green light. This is just him
working through some stuff. And I believe him, like they
have taken such a cautious approach that if a guy
is out there, I trust that they are not doing
further damage to themselves. And I thought Donovan getting to
the rim the way he did to start this game
(22:32):
was a great sign in terms of how he looked physically.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, I think so too. And by the way, speaking
of audacious passes, was that baseball passed to struts in
the corner the best pass Donovan Mitchell has ever thrown
in his career.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Oh my god, it's the best one that I can remember,
at least in his recent play like that. That was phenomenal.
That had sauce on it.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And it wouldn't do like six people. It was crazy.
That was the vision. The pace. I mean, if that's
if that is a at ninety percent of the speed
that he threw it, it's getting picked off and we're like,
what are you doing? Donovan? Like that? It was such
an audacious decision, and then to match it with an
(23:18):
audate with like an audaciously like strong and paid you know,
the pace on that thing was bananas. What a pass.
That was amazing. Sorry, no, I don't have anything productive
to say about it. It was just cool.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
What I liked about.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
This game for Donovan was, at least recently, as he's
been going through this slump, it's felt like the SHOT's
not falling and he's not helping in other ways right,
Like he's actively you know, playing against the Cavs at
some point. Then I wasn't surprised to see him take
accountability after the Sun's game. That's one hundred percent what
you expect from Donovan Mitchell from a leadership standpoint. But
(23:56):
I felt like his bad games have felt really bad,
whereas with this game. He didn't shoot well the three pointer,
as you said, he hasn't made one in the last
two games. But I thought he was hitting the glass.
I thought he was active getting steals. I thought the
passing was good. I felt like he was playing a
good overall game. He just wasn't shooting well. And that's
(24:18):
more reminiscent of what we saw when Darius was going
through his slump, where okay, the playmakings there, at least
in that stretch when the shot wasn't falling. Ironically, his
assistant turnover ratio had been great and he's playing good defense.
That's what I want to see from Donnay because you know,
Portland's not a good team, but they're a team that
has length. We've seen them good, you know, come down
(24:39):
to the wire against the Cavs tomorrow. Kamara is someone
that can be really, really disruptive defensively, so I'm going
to be interested to see there's a very good chance
that we have another off shooting night there can Donovan
and can Darius find ways to make an impact even
if the shot isn't falling in that matchup.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
One thing I do want to say, just you know,
to kind of contextualize, you know, because you made the
comment like Darius was you know, even when he was slumping,
it felt like everything else was still you know, the
cows were able to survive it because if he'd of
all the other things he was doing, I would also
argue they were able to survive it also because the
(25:19):
rest of the team was in really good form.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And the rest of the team is not in really
good form right now. So it's like, you know, we're
gonna feel a Donovan slump a lot harder when Darius
is also at like not his best either, and Tie
is not at his best. I mean, think about how
many of those Darius games Tye just scored twenty four points,
you know, or you know, or or Max went off
(25:44):
or DeAndre Hunter got to thirty points. Like, the whole
team just isn't in the best form right now. So
I think that is an important piece of context to
layer into the Donovan slump right now, is like he
doesn't have the same level of insulation that the teams
provide id other players on the team when they've not
played their best this year.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, that's a really fair point. It's funny because I
was looking at this game against Utah and I'm like, Wow,
Calves had a sixty to thirty edge on points in
the paint. They managed turnovers really well. And you know,
as I'm building out the rundown for this episode, I'm
sitting there, I'm like, this is the kind of stuff
they need to do to raise their floor right, to
(26:24):
mitigate bad shooting nights and give themselves a better chance.
This is the stuff they weren't doing against Phoenix. And
then I go back and I look at the game
stats for Phoenix. I'm like, oh, hes actually won the
offensive rebound battle, they won the turnover battle, they had
more points off of turnovers, Cows outscored them points in
the paint, they had five more steals, and yet the
(26:46):
game still felt so bad, and some of that is
due to how rough the second half or the first
half was. I agree with Kenny Atkinson that I thought
their defensive effort in the second half was a whole
lot better, but at kind of the game stats and
those type of you know, effort splits in things like that,
and I was expecting them to be one way, but
(27:07):
it was a totally different way. It really really caught
me off guard.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I think it's one of those things where it's like,
where are those offensive rebounds coming from? Oh, so Igadaro
and Ryan Dunn, you know a couple of rookies that
are that are kind of outworking you, Cody Martin.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Galt me on a two way contract, lighting you up.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah. So I do think, like you can't forget where
the Suns are as a team right now, and like
I do think that was a frustrating loss. I do
you think that their focus was poor and they were
really counting. You know, it's like the kind of the
worst thing where in that first half where you get
you give up the open three and you don't close
(27:49):
out hard, and then you shrug when it goes in
and it's like, well, I don't tell you, brother, Yeah,
he didn't do any of the things that would make
it not go in. So it's it's like even if
it's a guy who normally wouldn't make it. You know,
someone like Ryan Dunn, who's not a great shooter. It's like,
I don't know, man, Like again, you didn't do anything
(28:10):
that would make it hard for him. So, uh it
gets really hard to you know, feel too bad for
you that you're dealing with a high you know, a
good shooting night from your opponent, Like shooting variants does
not come out of the same uh, you know, is
not always cut from the same cloth. And I felt
like Phoenix really got whatever they wanted. And then by
(28:31):
the time the Cavs took the game really seriously on
the defensive end, it was just too big of a
too big of a gap to cover and you were
counting on Kevin Durant to miss contested shots and he
might be the best contested shot maker in the history
of the sport.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, and not only that, all of them were in
a rhythm because you gave them such quality shots and
they got to see it go in so many times, right.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Like can I can I pick? Can I pick a
knit strategically? And that from that game because it bothered
me at the time and I was put in my
back pocket. I know that the zone has been something
we break out when things aren't working very well. We
can't break out the zone against Kevin Durant. It doesn't work.
He killed him. It's like the best light contest shot
(29:19):
maker in the history of the sport. Probably, Like the
difference between not guarding Kevin Durant at all at all
and being a step or two late on the contest
is probably more negligible than any player ever. Yeah, and
like that's what the zone does, you know, like you
can't always contest everyone when you're trying to cover that
(29:39):
much ground, or if he flashes to the middle and
just catches and immediately jumps and shoots, Like, yeah, that
was tough. And again, I just think there are a
lot of things, you know, you know, strategically the actual execution.
You know, they're not playing their best ball right now,
Like at the end of the day, they're just not.
And like I I'm definitely sympathetic of the staff trying
(30:02):
to figure out how to how to get them going,
trying to pull some different levers to see what's going
to motivate.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
They hold a Javonte Green one that we had theorized
on the last podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Ye and and I like his minutes by the way,
but uh, you know, I I think that you know,
right now, this is the dog days and you're just
trying stuff to see what sticks and what what gets
people out of the funk. I mean, h Kenny Kenny
mentioned it before this game, where he was getting ready
to a big, challenging long practice to get out of
(30:34):
the slump, and he's like, let's play horse instead. Let's
just try to have fun, you know, because like we've
talked about this a lot that you know, no matter
how much he loved basketball, no matter you know, how
good your team chemistry is, there's going to be a
part of every season in a you know, with an
eighty two games this season to your point, when you've
(30:55):
been on the road every single day since February twenty
fifth pretty much, or you know, traveling home and then
traveling right back out since February twenty fifth, there is
going to be a part every season where this is
just a job, yep. And people don't like going to
their jobs. You know, I don't like going to my job.
(31:16):
If you get in, I like my job. But if
you gave me the choice to stay home and still
get paid, I'd normally I generally take that option, and like,
I think that, you know, I think it makes sense
that Kenny goes to, let's try just to inject some
fun and some levity into this, to break up that
this is a job monotony. And you know, who's to
(31:39):
say if it worked, But they definitely gave a much
better showing against Utah than they have against other teams
that maybe weren't weren't strong either.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, particularly you know that that Sacramento game, in the
Phoenix game, both of those, that's three games, four nights
in three different cities, where you're traveling between all of those,
you're leaving the arena at two am and you're just exhausted.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I think we did a pretty good job at the
start of the month saying hey, this is going to
be tough. This might not be tough from a level
of competition standpoint, but they are going to be.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Traveling this entire month.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I expect a rut to happen at some point here
because this is just the kind of stuff. This is
the grind of the NBA season that always catches up
to guys. And I definitely found it was interesting that
Kenny Atkinson went that route. I think it makes a
lot of sense, you know it. It's just it's very,
very difficult, right, And I've seen people say, well, you know,
(32:35):
they're only playing thirty two thirty three minutes. This is
less than last year, So how are they going to
get tired? Try, like when they were a mental fatigue
more than a physical fatigue. Right when you are traveling
for you know, a month straight, try telling someone, hey,
you played thirty three instead of thirty five. You're you
should be fresh. No, Like, those two minutes aren't making
(32:57):
a difference. You're still going through shooter and you're still
doing your you know, the workouts, You're still going through
your your post game routine of icing down and all
the recovery stuff that you have to do, and you're
never home. That's that's going to have an effect. So
when I look at kind of the rest of this month,
because it isn't until the end of the month that
(33:19):
they actually have a stretch of games where they're at home.
Right there, They're going to play the Clippers on the thirtieth,
and then I think it's the Knicks on the Wednesday after,
So you know, Sunday to Wednesday, they're going to be home.
I expect them to look great in the next game,
but finally getting two days off, you're at home the
(33:41):
whole time, you're finally going to get a little bit
of a rest. That first one back at home is
always kind of tough, that that's almost an extension of
the road trip.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
But until then, I don't.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Expect them to really blow a team out in a
dramatic fashion where you know, they shoot sixty percent from
three and the ball is popping and we're getting those
vintage cavalanches.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I think that this is going to be a bit
of a grind. I think they are certainly capable of.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Winning the rest of these games, but I don't think
it's going to necessarily be the most pretty basketball that
we've seen.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I have a question for you for this, you know,
through the rest of this month, would you let's let's
say they win out through the end of the month,
would you rather see them acknowledging that we're probably not
gonna have a ton of blowouts? Would you rather see
them win one thirty to one twenty five or one
ten to one oh five?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Sorry, what was that first score?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Thirty to one twenty five or one ten to one
oh five, Like, would you like to see. You know,
things aren't coming together, but like you know, but we're scoring,
or things aren't coming together, but we're stopping.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Mmm, I think scoring it's just more fun. I've got
my my Fantasy finals next week. I had one this
you know, this week, and I'm very upset because I
to Darius and Donovan to get me more points and
they and they just had to be pulled in the
third quarter, which I get for.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
The greater the other way, I'm going the other way.
I'd like to see them get I want if things
aren't going to be easy for the rest of this month,
I would like to see them hang their hat on.
We're going to suck to play against, Like our legs
are heavy on our jumper where jumpers were shorting everything.
But damn it, if we're going to have a bad
(35:27):
time on offense, you're going to have a bad time too.
And like I do, I would kind of like to
see that. Like I love that Utah only scored ninety
one points tonight. That is a much more meaningful number
than me than the one twenty in terms of assessing
where the team's head is at. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I guess where I'm coming from is I look
at Portland, I look at Detroit, I look at the Clippers.
These are all physical, long teams that are able to
play defense at a high, high level. If the Cavs
are able to say, hey are three ball isn't falling,
but we still found ways to go out there and
score one twenty or one thirty points, that.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Would feel really really good to me.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That is, hey, not everything is working, but we are
still an offensive juggernaut. And particularly when we're looking at
can this offense finally translate to the postseason? Can they
finally get over the hump and take the successes they
have in a regular season to the postseason and establish
themselves as legitimate contenders in the postseason. More proof of
(36:33):
concept that they are able to find ways to get
it done offensively in a variety of ways is going
to give me confidence, because ultimately I trust that this
team can play defense. I think that they're doing some
things that make things a little too hard on themselves,
whether it's you know, as you said, going to zone
against the Phoenix Suns or going to the three guard
look in that time unnecessarily. I think that that's things
(36:58):
that you can change up in the postseason. I think
that this team can defend at a high, high level
when it matters the offense, that's going to remain a
question until we actually see it. So continuing to at
least get that positive reinforcement on on that end of
the court, I think that makes it easier to play
defense because the the offense is rolling, and it just
(37:20):
makes me feel a little bit better. I guess the
true answer there is that's where more of my insecurities
lie as a fan on the offensive end versus the
defensive end.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
That's fair and honestly, to your point, if they are
scoring a one hundred and thirty a night for the
next four or five games, me and Sterius or Donovan
are playing really well generally like, that's that's a that's
a truism, but you know, like and not necessarily figured
something out and that that has not been clicking for them.
(37:52):
So I get what you're saying, and then I'm going
to move it to another macro question. If I may,
we thought that a franchise record of sixty seven wins
was all but a certainty just seven days ago going
into that Orlando game. Now they have to finish ten
(38:15):
and a one to get there? Do they get there?
I'm going to keep the faith. I'm going to say yes.
I think it's going to be ugly. I think it's
going to be scary, but yeah, I think that they
get there. I think they go ten and one to
close this thing out. I it's not a high high
degree of confidence with it. I am disappointed that it
(38:37):
is a question after that four game losing streak, but
I think that they are capable of pulling that off.
I think they're capable. They've responded unbelievably well to the
swoons they've had this year. To your point, privately, to me,
(38:58):
we went twenty one and one after our life's three
game losing streak, so it's not like the team hasn't
done it. But I'm gonna say we don't get there.
I think I think we're gonna go eight and three
or nine and two down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And ninety two. Yeah, I could see that, and uh.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
But boy, I don't know if the team's thinking about it,
but I sure would love to see him get there.
It would mean so much to like, I feel like,
reclaim your dominance going into the postseason, as opposed to
like a limp in you know, we just like I
know that there's no rhyme or reason to this, and
(39:39):
teams that limp into the postseason end up going on
runs all the time. Teams that come into the postseason
red hot get knocked out in the first round all
the time, like I know, but like, just for the vibes,
I would love to see this team rattle off two
weeks of really strong play as we close out this
regular season, well.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Especially because they're going to be playing some tea that
are really gunning for these wins, that really want to
you know, I think that's part of the losing streak, right,
we were playing teams that are desperate, that were playing
with their seasons on the line. Well, the Cavs weren't
playing for much, right, Like, I think that it was
a big, big factor here. So for them to say,
(40:18):
you know what, let's play spoilers. Let's ruin the Clippers'
day here and give them a loss, and let's you know,
go through the gauntlet that is playing Detroit and the
physicality that they play with, and let's punch them in
the mouth, right, let's get that with I think that
that would feel really great, particularly you got two games
against the Knicks. Anytime you can hand the knicks in health,
(40:40):
that's going to feel great. So if they can pull
it off, that'd be great. You know, as you said,
if they go eight and three, that's sixty five wins,
we would be thrilled about that. But before the season,
and I think, no.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Matter justin, can I just say this is unbelievable. No
matter what expert we set at the beginning of the season,
no matter how ambitious we think it is, the Calves
every year have exceeded that expectation so thoroughly that by
the end we're like, oh man, they only got to this.
(41:14):
It's like, it's what this team does. Man, even in
a season where like there's no way I could feel
even any shred of disappointment at the end of the
year based on how far they flew past what I
thought they were going to be. Like that just is
is honestly reflective of how good they've been in this
last three or four years, and even in this season
(41:36):
that I can be like, oh man, only sixty six wins.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, I think given the benefit of hindsight, it's obviously
going to be something I celebrate, particularly if they have
a great postseason run. We're going to look back on
the season very, very fondly, but they've also earned those
increased expectations, and I would be disappointed if they didn't
go out and get the franchise win record or at least,
(42:01):
at the very least tie it. You know, I think
that that would be a nice bow on this regular season.
I think this team has played at that kind of level,
So I want to see them go out and achieve it.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, me too, I think they can. I think it
would be a special cap to a special season, but
it'll still be to your point, it's still a special
season if they landed sixty four, sixty five, sixty six wins,
you know, matching a matching a win total that you
only ever got with Lebron James in the building is
(42:34):
certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Totally agree. Well, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Obviously, closing out this road trip with a lot of
wins would go a long way towards getting that win record,
So we'll see if they're able to pull that off.
And really, you know, as you said, get off to Schneid,
get the offense back on track, keep this defense locked,
and it'll be great to see big thanks to everyone
that tuned in live on YouTube. Make sure you guys
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(43:00):
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Speaker 3 (43:15):
Joe Cats
This crowd rises to its being what Carl slammed it?
Oh Carl, left wing reball, perfect.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Pop, then a block, the shot at the rim, how
with the left hand and of fowl. Welcome the Chasedown Podcast,
part of the Calves media family. I'm your host, Justin Browan.
The Chase Doown is presented by Fubo, the official streaming
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Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try
(00:30):
for free at foobotv dot com. Slash Calves. Well, it
wasn't always pretty, but the Cleveland Cavaliers found a way
to pull away against the Utah Jazz and and their
losing streak. I'm feeling better finally get to see a win.
It's always a little concerning. It seems like these afternoon
games have given them trouble. But the Calves got the
W and I'm I'm feeling w's right now because I'm
(00:52):
joined by my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Carter, how you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I'm glad we weren't soon beat against Uh That's all
you can really ask for. A late season trip to Utah,
especially for an afternoon Mattine game where the Cavs have
not been playing their best ball in those settings, and
with them playing their worst basketball the season, and you know,
first off, way better to win than lose. You know,
(01:18):
I don't know if I feel like everything is solved
as of yet. I still think there's stuff to get
cleaned up. There's still some form questions, concerns I have
a little bit. But like at the end of the day,
you know, I don't think they played their best game
and they won by twenty nine points.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I did not feel like this was a vintage
Cleonton Cavaliers basketball win, right Like, I don't think that
this was necessarily a return to form from the best
versions of this team that we've seen. But what I
will say is I did feel like from the start
the defensive effort was there even when the shots weren't falling,
and that hasn't consistently been the case. I think think
(02:00):
we've seen at times that you know, the defensive effort
falls off as.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
The shots aren't falling.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know, they're a little late on the rotations, the
scrambles are half step slow. I felt even in the
first half where Utah was able to hang around. The
defensive effort was consistently there. Guys were you know, diving
for loose balls, they were rotating, they were communicating, and
(02:26):
if they're going to continue to go through a bit
of this stretch, which we can get into later on
whether or not we think this is going to continue,
but reality is they have been on the road for
a very long time. They haven't played in the same
city twice since February twenty fifth, when they so they've
(02:46):
been traveling between every single game. And I understand some
of those games are at home, but when you're only
there for an evening, it's just it's an extension of
the road trip. At that point, you're never fully getting
any rest. And I think that that nothing's coming out
of the bags. Yeah, exactly right. I think Danny Cunning
on Lockdown Cass has said basically over that stretch, they've
(03:08):
had four nights at home, like that's that's nothing, right.
So I do think that that is having an effect
on these guys. I think it was big that they
were able to win comfortably enough that a lot of
the starters got to sit for you know, the end
of the third quarter and the entire fourth quarter. But
I think fatigue is definitely a factor. But if you're
(03:29):
going to be playing with some tired legs, if your
shots aren't going to be following at the clip that
we're accustomed to getting it done in the least, committing
on the defensive end, I think is a step in
the right direction.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, I mean, I just thought in general, the energy
was a lot better. You know, I think there was.
It's tough because this Utah team is in such rough shape.
You know, there are a lot worse than they even
were last year in terms of the guys they have
on the floor. You know, no John Collins, no Lowry
(04:01):
Mark and then and so you know, they're playing some
guys that I just think, you know, Cody Williams ain't
Jalen Williams, he ain't his brother, and so you know,
I was trying to kind of identify the spots where
it was like, are they giving up open shots and
Utah isn't able to convert or are they locked in?
(04:25):
And overall I think they were pretty locked in. I
think that there were a few possessions where they certainly
got they didn't have to guard as hard you know,
like because you know, Utah had a lot of guys
out there that maybe weren't the best shooters, you know,
at different parts of their roster. But you know, the
game is the game, and I think I think they
(04:46):
played their opponent well, they played the scouting report well,
they left the right kinds of guys open, they crashed
down in the right spots. You know, they they forced
eighteen turnovers, They had seven combined as a team at
nine steals. That tells me at least the energy was
going a little bit yep.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, And you know, I had the eye roll when
Walker Kessler hit a three three pointer in the first
half because I was like, come on, seventeen percent three
point shooter is going to go out there and start
hitting shots on us. He ended up going one for eight,
which is just under thirteen percent, So you know, he
shot his career averages.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Eight three point attempts. Is no comment.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
What that is is getting to explore the space.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
That is, Yeah, you know, we're not playing for wins here,
Let's try to expand your game. Jared Jackson Junior got
to do a lot of that last year, where.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Hey, that Andre Drummond taking threes for us a couple
of years ago.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Hey, hey, hey, that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Was that was some fun basketball. Carter, don't don't you
dare talk down on Andre Drumm and exploring the space.
But yeah, there were definitely you know, as you said,
whether it's Walker Kessler throwing up threes or some of
the other options that they had, you're not going to
need to close out on them the same way that
you have to against Kevin Durant or Royce O'Neil. But
(06:07):
I thought the overall defensive effort has been a lot better.
Mobilely struggled in his first game back from injury. Defensively
against the Clippers, I thought, even though the Suns game
didn't go our away, I thought his defensive effort and
impact was back. Kevin Durant pull up jumper it was crazy,
which is just about the hardest thing you can do
(06:29):
in basketball. That is one of the most difficult shots
to defend period in the league.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So and then Durant, by the way, answered with like
nine pull up it's in response. It was like it
was almost like oh okay, and he definitely wanted to
get his back. And Kevin Durant is still very good
at basketball.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yes, he is and you know, I just think that
it's at least a foundation, right because for the most
part the offense, those struggles have kind of continued. We
haven't been hitting threes at the rate we're accustomed to
another tonight, crazy like honestly, that that really goes to
show that you're out of a rhythm, right when when
(07:13):
you're even missing all the free throws, it's even when
they get to the rim at times, it's they haven't
been finishing the way that we're used to seeing. And
I don't know what's if there's any one thing that's
solely to blame for the rut that they're in offensively,
but I do think at least getting the win, getting
some of that confidence back, pulling away in the way
(07:34):
that they did, can at least help gain some positive momentum.
Which you know, basketball, whether it is within a game
or if you're talking about an eighty two game season,
it's a game and it's a season of runs. It
is such a momentum sport, and sometimes you just need
to see a couple of them go down for you
to gain your confidence as a shooter. Sometimes you just
(07:55):
need to get that one win to start rattling off
wins again, So I hope that this can at least
be a catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, And I mean, I think it's also important for
this team to kind of remind themselves that they don't
need to shoot well to win. You know, I think
they started leaning on that a little bit as a
crutch of like, you know, Okay, if the three pointers going,
we feel great. If the threes aren't going, maybe we
don't feel so great. They shoot twenty three percent in
(08:23):
this game. They go eleven of forty eight, which, man,
that's a lot of three point attempts. I know, I
know a lot of them were open, but you know,
we're bored, We're we're pressing my comfort ability there with
that much. It was literally half their field goal attempts.
But you know, they go eleven of forty eight from three,
they go thirty thirty three of forty eight from two,
(08:46):
and they get to the room consistently. They're forcing turnovers,
they're getting out and running, and they're winning and scoring
in multiple ways. You know, it's really hard to score
one hundred and twenty points when you shoot twenty three
percent from three and sixty eight percent from the free
throw line.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, and I think it.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Goes to show that there are a lot of roads
up the you know, the proverbial mountain here, and just
because you're not in great form as a shooter doesn't
mean that you just have to shrug and be like, well,
that's the only way. We just got to hope we
make them, because like the Calves never made them in
this game, and it didn't matter on you're just scoring
(09:25):
one hundred and twenty points.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, And that is my preferred way to go about this, right, Like,
let's attack the rim. Let's try to if we're going
to generate open threes, have it be because we're attacking
the rim, the defense is collapsing, and we are generating
quality looks Like, I don't want to settle for threes,
and I do feel like the offensive process hasn't been
(09:47):
as crisp as it has been throughout the season. I
do feel like they are settling for threes. You know,
not to pick on anyone in particular, but Sam Merril
when he in the first half took a pull up
kind of one on four or free in transition, it's
a decent look. On nights where you have it rolling,
I'm fine with that, but you have to value the
(10:09):
shots is, particularly when you're overall in an offensive rut.
I think you need to work to get better looks.
And I was encouraged actually at the start of this
game against Utah, where Donovan was really getting to the rim,
he was getting to the rim at will. I thought
that they were generating very, very quality looks. I thought
Walker Kessler was having trouble defending in space, and I
(10:31):
was like, okay, perfect, let's attack. Let's keep getting this,
you know, let's force Utah to make us do something different.
And I felt like we got ourselves out of that
offensive rhythm. I thought after that start, all of a sudden,
we started going for that knockout punch. We started to
take more threes without really working the ball and generating high,
(10:54):
high quality looks, and I just felt like the offensive
process overall wasn't as good as it could have been.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, an eighty eight point five offensive rating in the
second quarter where Utah kind of made their run back
and Kavs went o nine from three. I didn't think
they took the best threes, but I think the probably
the most problematic thing is only three assists in that
second quarter, So the ball kind of wasn't moving the
way it was to start the game. The down downward
(11:22):
momentum that kind of made it hard for Utah to
stick with them kind of went away. They got more
to side to side basketball, and you know, of course
they just missed a lot, which is tough. But you know,
like I do think, I do think you're right that
this is still a team that's like kind of like
and I think that's where both of us are kind
(11:43):
of on. This is nice, but I do want to see,
like we want to see some of the underlying performance
metrics tick back up a little bit before we feel
like they're out of the woods with this rough stretch
of play.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think part of how the Cavs
are built lends itself towards being able to make these pivots, Right, Like,
there are stretches where offensively, our identity is going to
be centered around the guards, right, they are going to
generate good looks for themselves, They're going to generate good
looks for everybody else. We can really lean on them
(12:20):
offensively when you're in ruts like this, and when you're
in kind of this you know, long road trip, bit
of a rock fight I'd like to see us lean
more and more on the bigs, and I just felt
like we haven't been consistently doing that over this stretch.
And Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are able to generate really,
really good looks for themselves. They are such intelligent players
(12:42):
in space, in traffic, They're able to generate rim pressure
in ways that you know, frankly, no one else on
this roster is really able to do at that same level,
even if it involves when you're in those one big
configurations getting DeAndre Hunter as the role man and trusting
him to finish or draw contact at the rim. I
(13:04):
would just like to see us attack the rim more
and not settle into well, this is our shot profile
when everything's rolling, so let's almost speak it into existence.
Let's take these same shots and trust that they're going
to fall. I really feel like once you kind of
get that rim pressure, once you challenge teams and they
are changing what they're doing defensively to take that away,
(13:26):
then you can start opening things up and taking those threes,
and if it's not falling at that point, at least
you can say, hey, they were really cheating to take
away the rim. These were the looks that we were
able to generate. We trust that these are going to
fall at some point, but I don't feel like that's
the case. I feel like we are the ones dictating
our shot selection more than what the defense is doing.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
At this point.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, I also, I don't know. I was thinking about
how when you're slumping this hard as a team, shooting
it does get break your brain a little bit, because
when you do want to run your offense the way
you normally run it and the defense collapses, you're supposed
to kick it out right, and when you kick it
(14:10):
out to an open shooter, they're supposed to shoot it.
So and I feel like as they've been, you know,
so icye teams have you know, I think the Calves
have gotten a lot of open looks over these last
five games, and I have noticed. I feel like, when
you know, and I certainly feel like the Calves have
(14:30):
done this when the other team clearly didn't have it,
you're like, oh man, we really get to worry about
the rem tonight, you know, and we get to collapse
a little harder, because until they start killing us, why
would we why would we? You know, the only place
they're getting us is at the rim, so let's just
protect the rim. And like, anecdotally that's what I feel
like I've seen is like, man, well they're making you know,
(14:52):
there are possessions where I'm like, yeah, they're getting in
to the teeth, the defense collapses and then they have
to kick it out and so that that's so I'm sympathetic,
I guess, But like that's where I think your point
about running things through the bigs and attacking differently is
that's your skeleton key, that's your solution because you're at
(15:15):
least like one. It's harder for them to dig down
and help when it's Evan initiating or Jared catching it
on the move, you know, and and finishing as opposed
to you know, when those guys are catching the ball
near the rim and getting the ball into scoring position.
It's just an easier finished for them than Darius air
Donovan because they're massive and those guys are small, right,
(15:37):
So like, if there is extra help in that paint,
the bigs are going to finish better than the Smalls
against that extra help just you know, writ large, you know.
So like I think that's why I've been disappointed to
see them not go to the bigs as much, because like,
change the rhythm of what you're doing when the base
(15:58):
system isn't working, because one, you'll get stronger at those
at those, you know, like where you let Evan just
run the offense for a quarter, like your your group
can kind of congeal about around that, and then it
does change the rhythm for the guards. You know, if
Donovan's pull up game is really not there, like giving
him a bunch of catch and shoot attempts in a
(16:20):
row probably goes a long way, like changing the rhythm
of where these guys are catching it when the current
rhythm is not leading to to makes. And this is
all very soft, squishy stuff which is really hard to analyze,
especially as like non players and non coaches, because like,
we're not guys going through shooting slumps. You know, we're
(16:43):
not coaching guys out of shooting slumps. So this is
all very squishy and very theoretical, and you know, it's
very possible any member of the coaching staff or player
might listen to this, which they won't, but if they did,
they might listen to this and shake their head and
be like, these guys don't know what they're talking about.
But that's the challenge of dealing with performance dips like this,
(17:04):
especially as shooters, because it's like, how do you break
it out of it? Or do you just have to
kind of white knuckle through it. I don't know the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, I think you're right. When the bass system isn't working,
that's something that can just kind of break your brain
in a lot of ways. But sometimes it's nice to
know even when the bass system isn't working, there's a
backup system that's there supporting you. Carter, just like zoom
Ai Companion. Because only you can do your best work,
zoom Ai Companion can help you do the rest, like
automatically taking notes, answer meeting questions, and helping you respond
(17:33):
to your coworker. Available at no additional cost with eligible
paid plans. We're happy with zoom Ai Companion. It's funny
looking at the wide open looks that the calves have got.
The UTAH data isn't in the mix yet, but at
least for this four game the losing streak that preceded it,
they were getting a decent number of wide open looks
(17:53):
for the season. They take over twenty wide open threes
per game where a defender is not within six feet.
Over the losing streak, it was seventeen point five. They're
shooting forty one percent on those looks for the losing streak,
so you know, it's only one percent worse than they
shoot on the season for those looks, but and it
is three fewer, but they were getting a decent number
(18:15):
of looks. I just feel like some of those semi
contested the lake contest and just how they're getting to
the shots hasn't felt as good as it has at
other times.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Of the year.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And obviously, when your guards have been going through a funk,
that's going to make things tough. I feel like Darius
has mostly broken out of it. Tonight wasn't a great
night for him, but he started to get hot, and
then him getting hot him and Donovan getting hot in
the third quarter basically put the game away, so they
didn't get a chance to continue.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
How about Tye finally hitting a few that was big
for Tye?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
That was tremendous.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Honestly, ty Jerome and DeAndre Hunter both coming out there
and having big games off the bench I thought was significant.
I think that that is the kind of thing that
you really need to have going If you're going to
continue to have some success on this road trip and actually,
you know, close it out on the right foot.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Absolutely, And I mean I think, really you look at
those the three guards, you know, because this team really
has three guards that play now in Tye, Darius, and Donovan.
Tye has gotten his numbers up a little bit. He's
you know, he's up to forty six from the field
and thirty one from three. Darius is at thirty nine
(19:30):
from the field and thirty two percent from three, and
Donovan is at thirty three percent from the field in
sixteen point seven percent from three. He hasn't hit a
three in his last two games. That's alved for the
munch a month of March for these guys, and like
there is a little bit of like an inherent like
there's nothing to analyze here when those three guys are
(19:53):
slashing that poorly collectively, they are the play initiators for
this often for the most part. Yeah, And it's not like,
you know, and we can make the Evan argument, and
I still think we should that, Like we want to
see Evan initiate more and run things through the bigs,
but it's not like his usage is like cratered this
(20:15):
month and they've stopped running the ball through him. We
just are wanting it more because the other the alternatives
don't feel as good as they normally do, right, Right,
So like I yeah, it's just it's just a funky,
funky time of year, which is not particularly mathematical. But yeah,
Evan Evan's usage for the year is it twenty two
point six? Looking it up live? Bear with me, Oh god,
(20:39):
it's not loading. Justin it's over. It's over. I'll let
you know, I'll let you know, Okay, hashtag I'm twenty
two point eight. It's higher, higher in March than it
has been for the year.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, it's funny because it when I look at this team,
there's nothing that jumps out that like red flag sirens
going off, like last year when I was very clear
that Mitchell was moving around on one leg and Darius
was the shell of himself physically and was kind of
(21:11):
fading away, right, Like, there are times where there's just
kind of boneheaded mistakes, Like some of the turnovers Darius
has had over the stretch are just too ambitious. Right,
You're dealing with guys that are mentally and physically tired
and you are throwing a rocket pass through traffic, bouncing
(21:31):
and you know, making it a very very difficult catch
for someone like Jared Allen who's rolling to the basket.
You can kind of tone that down and let's let's
go for you know, a more higher percentage play. Like
I liked him going off the glass, but nobody else
was on that. See, nobody is on that wavelength, right,
(21:51):
like those unforced errors. I think that you can do
a better job of kind of mitigating. But for the
most part, like when I see Donovan moving around, some
of the misses are really bad, but he looks fine
to me physically, Like, yeah, I think so too. And
Kenny talked about that after the Sun's game, where it was, Hey,
is that growing something that's bothering him? And he says that,
(22:12):
as far as I understand, it's not. Our medical staff
has given him the green light. This is just him
working through some stuff. And I believe him, like they
have taken such a cautious approach that if a guy
is out there, I trust that they are not doing
further damage to themselves. And I thought Donovan getting to
the rim the way he did to start this game
(22:32):
was a great sign in terms of how he looked physically.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, I think so too. And by the way, speaking
of audacious passes, was that baseball passed to struts in
the corner the best pass Donovan Mitchell has ever thrown
in his career.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Oh my god, it's the best one that I can remember,
at least in his recent play like that. That was phenomenal.
That had sauce on it.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And it wouldn't do like six people. It was crazy.
That was the vision. The pace. I mean, if that's
if that is a at ninety percent of the speed
that he threw it, it's getting picked off and we're like,
what are you doing? Donovan? Like that? It was such
an audacious decision, and then to match it with an
(23:18):
audate with like an audaciously like strong and paid you know,
the pace on that thing was bananas. What a pass.
That was amazing. Sorry, no, I don't have anything productive
to say about it. It was just cool.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
What I liked about.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
This game for Donovan was, at least recently, as he's
been going through this slump, it's felt like the SHOT's
not falling and he's not helping in other ways right,
Like he's actively you know, playing against the Cavs at
some point. Then I wasn't surprised to see him take
accountability after the Sun's game. That's one hundred percent what
you expect from Donovan Mitchell from a leadership standpoint. But
(23:56):
I felt like his bad games have felt really bad,
whereas with this game. He didn't shoot well the three pointer,
as you said, he hasn't made one in the last
two games. But I thought he was hitting the glass.
I thought he was active getting steals. I thought the
passing was good. I felt like he was playing a
good overall game. He just wasn't shooting well. And that's
(24:18):
more reminiscent of what we saw when Darius was going
through his slump, where okay, the playmakings there, at least
in that stretch when the shot wasn't falling. Ironically, his
assistant turnover ratio had been great and he's playing good defense.
That's what I want to see from Donnay because you know,
Portland's not a good team, but they're a team that
has length. We've seen them good, you know, come down
(24:39):
to the wire against the Cavs tomorrow. Kamara is someone
that can be really, really disruptive defensively, so I'm going
to be interested to see there's a very good chance
that we have another off shooting night there can Donovan
and can Darius find ways to make an impact even
if the shot isn't falling in that matchup.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
One thing I do want to say, just you know,
to kind of contextualize, you know, because you made the
comment like Darius was you know, even when he was slumping,
it felt like everything else was still you know, the
cows were able to survive it because if he'd of
all the other things he was doing, I would also
argue they were able to survive it also because the
(25:19):
rest of the team was in really good form.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And the rest of the team is not in really
good form right now. So it's like, you know, we're
gonna feel a Donovan slump a lot harder when Darius
is also at like not his best either, and Tie
is not at his best. I mean, think about how
many of those Darius games Tye just scored twenty four points,
you know, or you know, or or Max went off
(25:44):
or DeAndre Hunter got to thirty points. Like, the whole
team just isn't in the best form right now. So
I think that is an important piece of context to
layer into the Donovan slump right now, is like he
doesn't have the same level of insulation that the teams
provide id other players on the team when they've not
played their best this year.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, that's a really fair point. It's funny because I
was looking at this game against Utah and I'm like, Wow,
Calves had a sixty to thirty edge on points in
the paint. They managed turnovers really well. And you know,
as I'm building out the rundown for this episode, I'm
sitting there, I'm like, this is the kind of stuff
they need to do to raise their floor right, to
(26:24):
mitigate bad shooting nights and give themselves a better chance.
This is the stuff they weren't doing against Phoenix. And
then I go back and I look at the game
stats for Phoenix. I'm like, oh, hes actually won the
offensive rebound battle, they won the turnover battle, they had
more points off of turnovers, Cows outscored them points in
the paint, they had five more steals, and yet the
(26:46):
game still felt so bad, and some of that is
due to how rough the second half or the first
half was. I agree with Kenny Atkinson that I thought
their defensive effort in the second half was a whole
lot better, but at kind of the game stats and
those type of you know, effort splits in things like that,
and I was expecting them to be one way, but
(27:07):
it was a totally different way. It really really caught
me off guard.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I think it's one of those things where it's like,
where are those offensive rebounds coming from? Oh, so Igadaro
and Ryan Dunn, you know a couple of rookies that
are that are kind of outworking you, Cody Martin.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Galt me on a two way contract, lighting you up.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah. So I do think, like you can't forget where
the Suns are as a team right now, and like
I do think that was a frustrating loss. I do
you think that their focus was poor and they were
really counting. You know, it's like the kind of the
worst thing where in that first half where you get
you give up the open three and you don't close
(27:49):
out hard, and then you shrug when it goes in
and it's like, well, I don't tell you, brother, Yeah,
he didn't do any of the things that would make
it not go in. So it's it's like even if
it's a guy who normally wouldn't make it. You know,
someone like Ryan Dunn, who's not a great shooter. It's like,
I don't know, man, Like again, you didn't do anything
(28:10):
that would make it hard for him. So, uh it
gets really hard to you know, feel too bad for
you that you're dealing with a high you know, a
good shooting night from your opponent, Like shooting variants does
not come out of the same uh, you know, is
not always cut from the same cloth. And I felt
like Phoenix really got whatever they wanted. And then by
(28:31):
the time the Cavs took the game really seriously on
the defensive end, it was just too big of a
too big of a gap to cover and you were
counting on Kevin Durant to miss contested shots and he
might be the best contested shot maker in the history
of the sport.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, and not only that, all of them were in
a rhythm because you gave them such quality shots and
they got to see it go in so many times, right.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Like can I can I pick? Can I pick a
knit strategically? And that from that game because it bothered
me at the time and I was put in my
back pocket. I know that the zone has been something
we break out when things aren't working very well. We
can't break out the zone against Kevin Durant. It doesn't work.
He killed him. It's like the best light contest shot
(29:19):
maker in the history of the sport. Probably, Like the
difference between not guarding Kevin Durant at all at all
and being a step or two late on the contest
is probably more negligible than any player ever. Yeah, and
like that's what the zone does, you know, like you
can't always contest everyone when you're trying to cover that
(29:39):
much ground, or if he flashes to the middle and
just catches and immediately jumps and shoots, Like, yeah, that
was tough. And again, I just think there are a
lot of things, you know, you know, strategically the actual execution.
You know, they're not playing their best ball right now,
Like at the end of the day, they're just not.
And like I I'm definitely sympathetic of the staff trying
(30:02):
to figure out how to how to get them going,
trying to pull some different levers to see what's going
to motivate.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
They hold a Javonte Green one that we had theorized
on the last podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Ye and and I like his minutes by the way,
but uh, you know, I I think that you know,
right now, this is the dog days and you're just
trying stuff to see what sticks and what what gets
people out of the funk. I mean, h Kenny Kenny
mentioned it before this game, where he was getting ready
to a big, challenging long practice to get out of
(30:34):
the slump, and he's like, let's play horse instead. Let's
just try to have fun, you know, because like we've
talked about this a lot that you know, no matter
how much he loved basketball, no matter you know, how
good your team chemistry is, there's going to be a
part of every season in a you know, with an
eighty two games this season to your point, when you've
(30:55):
been on the road every single day since February twenty
fifth pretty much, or you know, traveling home and then
traveling right back out since February twenty fifth, there is
going to be a part every season where this is
just a job, yep. And people don't like going to
their jobs. You know, I don't like going to my job.
(31:16):
If you get in, I like my job. But if
you gave me the choice to stay home and still
get paid, I'd normally I generally take that option, and like,
I think that, you know, I think it makes sense
that Kenny goes to, let's try just to inject some
fun and some levity into this, to break up that
this is a job monotony. And you know, who's to
(31:39):
say if it worked, But they definitely gave a much
better showing against Utah than they have against other teams
that maybe weren't weren't strong either.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, particularly you know that that Sacramento game, in the
Phoenix game, both of those, that's three games, four nights
in three different cities, where you're traveling between all of those,
you're leaving the arena at two am and you're just exhausted.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I think we did a pretty good job at the
start of the month saying hey, this is going to
be tough. This might not be tough from a level
of competition standpoint, but they are going to be.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Traveling this entire month.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I expect a rut to happen at some point here
because this is just the kind of stuff. This is
the grind of the NBA season that always catches up
to guys. And I definitely found it was interesting that
Kenny Atkinson went that route. I think it makes a
lot of sense, you know it. It's just it's very,
very difficult, right, And I've seen people say, well, you know,
(32:35):
they're only playing thirty two thirty three minutes. This is
less than last year, So how are they going to
get tired? Try, like when they were a mental fatigue
more than a physical fatigue. Right when you are traveling
for you know, a month straight, try telling someone, hey,
you played thirty three instead of thirty five. You're you
should be fresh. No, Like, those two minutes aren't making
(32:57):
a difference. You're still going through shooter and you're still
doing your you know, the workouts, You're still going through
your your post game routine of icing down and all
the recovery stuff that you have to do, and you're
never home. That's that's going to have an effect. So
when I look at kind of the rest of this month,
because it isn't until the end of the month that
(33:19):
they actually have a stretch of games where they're at home.
Right there, They're going to play the Clippers on the thirtieth,
and then I think it's the Knicks on the Wednesday after,
So you know, Sunday to Wednesday, they're going to be home.
I expect them to look great in the next game,
but finally getting two days off, you're at home the
(33:41):
whole time, you're finally going to get a little bit
of a rest. That first one back at home is
always kind of tough, that that's almost an extension of
the road trip.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
But until then, I don't.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Expect them to really blow a team out in a
dramatic fashion where you know, they shoot sixty percent from
three and the ball is popping and we're getting those
vintage cavalanches.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I think that this is going to be a bit
of a grind. I think they are certainly capable of.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Winning the rest of these games, but I don't think
it's going to necessarily be the most pretty basketball that
we've seen.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I have a question for you for this, you know,
through the rest of this month, would you let's let's
say they win out through the end of the month,
would you rather see them acknowledging that we're probably not
gonna have a ton of blowouts? Would you rather see
them win one thirty to one twenty five or one
ten to one oh five?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Sorry, what was that first score?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Thirty to one twenty five or one ten to one
oh five, Like, would you like to see. You know,
things aren't coming together, but like you know, but we're scoring,
or things aren't coming together, but we're stopping.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Mmm, I think scoring it's just more fun. I've got
my my Fantasy finals next week. I had one this
you know, this week, and I'm very upset because I
to Darius and Donovan to get me more points and
they and they just had to be pulled in the
third quarter, which I get for.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
The greater the other way, I'm going the other way.
I'd like to see them get I want if things
aren't going to be easy for the rest of this month,
I would like to see them hang their hat on.
We're going to suck to play against, Like our legs
are heavy on our jumper where jumpers were shorting everything.
But damn it, if we're going to have a bad
(35:27):
time on offense, you're going to have a bad time too.
And like I do, I would kind of like to
see that. Like I love that Utah only scored ninety
one points tonight. That is a much more meaningful number
than me than the one twenty in terms of assessing
where the team's head is at. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I guess where I'm coming from is I look
at Portland, I look at Detroit, I look at the Clippers.
These are all physical, long teams that are able to
play defense at a high, high level. If the Cavs
are able to say, hey are three ball isn't falling,
but we still found ways to go out there and
score one twenty or one thirty points, that.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Would feel really really good to me.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
That is, hey, not everything is working, but we are
still an offensive juggernaut. And particularly when we're looking at
can this offense finally translate to the postseason? Can they
finally get over the hump and take the successes they
have in a regular season to the postseason and establish
themselves as legitimate contenders in the postseason. More proof of
(36:33):
concept that they are able to find ways to get
it done offensively in a variety of ways is going
to give me confidence, because ultimately I trust that this
team can play defense. I think that they're doing some
things that make things a little too hard on themselves,
whether it's you know, as you said, going to zone
against the Phoenix Suns or going to the three guard
look in that time unnecessarily. I think that that's things
(36:58):
that you can change up in the postseason. I think
that this team can defend at a high, high level
when it matters the offense, that's going to remain a
question until we actually see it. So continuing to at
least get that positive reinforcement on on that end of
the court, I think that makes it easier to play
defense because the the offense is rolling, and it just
(37:20):
makes me feel a little bit better. I guess the
true answer there is that's where more of my insecurities
lie as a fan on the offensive end versus the
defensive end.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
That's fair and honestly, to your point, if they are
scoring a one hundred and thirty a night for the
next four or five games, me and Sterius or Donovan
are playing really well generally like, that's that's a that's
a truism, but you know, like and not necessarily figured
something out and that that has not been clicking for them.
(37:52):
So I get what you're saying, and then I'm going
to move it to another macro question. If I may,
we thought that a franchise record of sixty seven wins
was all but a certainty just seven days ago going
into that Orlando game. Now they have to finish ten
(38:15):
and a one to get there? Do they get there?
I'm going to keep the faith. I'm going to say yes.
I think it's going to be ugly. I think it's
going to be scary, but yeah, I think that they
get there. I think they go ten and one to
close this thing out. I it's not a high high
degree of confidence with it. I am disappointed that it
(38:37):
is a question after that four game losing streak, but
I think that they are capable of pulling that off.
I think they're capable. They've responded unbelievably well to the
swoons they've had this year. To your point, privately, to me,
(38:58):
we went twenty one and one after our life's three
game losing streak, so it's not like the team hasn't
done it. But I'm gonna say we don't get there.
I think I think we're gonna go eight and three
or nine and two down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And ninety two. Yeah, I could see that, and uh.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
But boy, I don't know if the team's thinking about it,
but I sure would love to see him get there.
It would mean so much to like, I feel like,
reclaim your dominance going into the postseason, as opposed to
like a limp in you know, we just like I
know that there's no rhyme or reason to this, and
(39:39):
teams that limp into the postseason end up going on
runs all the time. Teams that come into the postseason
red hot get knocked out in the first round all
the time, like I know, but like, just for the vibes,
I would love to see this team rattle off two
weeks of really strong play as we close out this
regular season, well.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Especially because they're going to be playing some tea that
are really gunning for these wins, that really want to
you know, I think that's part of the losing streak, right,
we were playing teams that are desperate, that were playing
with their seasons on the line. Well, the Cavs weren't
playing for much, right, Like, I think that it was
a big, big factor here. So for them to say,
(40:18):
you know what, let's play spoilers. Let's ruin the Clippers'
day here and give them a loss, and let's you know,
go through the gauntlet that is playing Detroit and the
physicality that they play with, and let's punch them in
the mouth, right, let's get that with I think that
that would feel really great, particularly you got two games
against the Knicks. Anytime you can hand the knicks in health,
(40:40):
that's going to feel great. So if they can pull
it off, that'd be great. You know, as you said,
if they go eight and three, that's sixty five wins,
we would be thrilled about that. But before the season,
and I think, no.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Matter justin, can I just say this is unbelievable. No
matter what expert we set at the beginning of the season,
no matter how ambitious we think it is, the Calves
every year have exceeded that expectation so thoroughly that by
the end we're like, oh man, they only got to this.
(41:14):
It's like, it's what this team does. Man, even in
a season where like there's no way I could feel
even any shred of disappointment at the end of the
year based on how far they flew past what I
thought they were going to be. Like that just is
is honestly reflective of how good they've been in this
last three or four years, and even in this season
(41:36):
that I can be like, oh man, only sixty six wins.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, I think given the benefit of hindsight, it's obviously
going to be something I celebrate, particularly if they have
a great postseason run. We're going to look back on
the season very, very fondly, but they've also earned those
increased expectations, and I would be disappointed if they didn't
go out and get the franchise win record or at least,
(42:01):
at the very least tie it. You know, I think
that that would be a nice bow on this regular season.
I think this team has played at that kind of level,
So I want to see them go out and achieve it.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, me too, I think they can. I think it
would be a special cap to a special season, but
it'll still be to your point, it's still a special
season if they landed sixty four, sixty five, sixty six wins,
you know, matching a matching a win total that you
only ever got with Lebron James in the building is
(42:34):
certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Totally agree. Well, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Obviously, closing out this road trip with a lot of
wins would go a long way towards getting that win record,
So we'll see if they're able to pull that off.
And really, you know, as you said, get off to Schneid,
get the offense back on track, keep this defense locked,
and it'll be great to see big thanks to everyone
that tuned in live on YouTube. Make sure you guys
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(43:00):
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Speaker 3 (43:15):
Joe Cats
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