Full Episode - Deciphering The “Trump Doctrine” + The Dreams & Drama Of The LeBron Lakers - The Chuck ToddCast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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new year to you. I am coming to you on Monday,

(01:47):
December twenty ninth. Full disclosure and recording on Sunday, December
twenty eighth. I always want to put those timestamps out
there just to give a little context and perspective from
where where I am speaking. From today's episode, I've got
a little bit on sort of what's happening. You know, currently,

(02:09):
the US military is in the middle of a couple
of different military campaigns, and I want to talk about that.
What's happening in Nigeria, what's happening in Venezuela, and a
little bit of sort of how this fits into the
larger picture of America's role in the world and the whatever,
and sort of the Trump doctrine, what does it mean anymore?
Is there a doctrine beyond the word transaction. I'll get

(02:32):
to that in a minute. I have a great interview.
I did conduct it a few weeks ago, and honestly
I saved it for what I thought would be a
good period to have this conversation. And it's with author
Yourn Weizman. He wrote a book called Hollywood Ending. Basically
it's about Lebron James and the Lakers and the whole

(02:54):
attempt to get him there, how long that process took,
as well as is sort of how hard it has
been for Lebron and the Lakers, who are both sort
of amazing brands, and it hasn't been the merger of success.
Then one might have imagined I've got some you know,

(03:15):
I will confess to growing up a Laker fan. Really,
what I grew up was as a Magic Johnson fan.
Those of us in mind, we didn't have we have
the Miami Tropics, I guess from the old ABA, but
I have this zero memory of them. So I'm not
going to pretend I do shoot. Even the University of
Miami didn't have College Basket Division in college basketball until

(03:35):
nineteen eighty five, till I was thirteen years old. So
basketball in South Florida was always a bit. It was
almost as sort of foreign as hockey was in South
Florida in the seventies and eighties. Now, I think it's
fair to say, because there's always been a very strong,
underrated high school basketball scene, but basketball, very much where

(03:58):
I grew up was the third sport, and in some
cases the fourth sport, the other ones being football, baseball, soccer,
and then you get to basketball. I think that has
flipped a bit, but it's still a strong baseball culture
in South Florida, still a strong soccer culture in South Florida.
In the competitive sports, obviously an extraordinarily strong football. But

(04:20):
as we've watched the SEC grow into a bigger power
in basketball, the improvement in high school basketball in Florida
has only you know, if you have these great athletes
for baseball, these great athletes for football, there's going to
be great athletes for basketball. It is not ironically the

(04:42):
DMV where I live today is considered in some ways
a better recruiting hotbed for basketball than South Florida? Is
I throw all that in there so that if you
were a basketball fan when I was in the eighties,
you were more likely in Miami to identify with a player.
I was a Magic Johnson guy. I had a friend
who was a Larry Bird guy. I had another friend
who was a Michael Jordan guy. I had another friend

(05:02):
who was a Kareem guy. And the point was, what
did that mean? Well, you actually tried to emulate how
they played, right when you were playing your version of
pickup basketball. Shoot, I used to dribble super high as
if I was somehow a six' nine point guard Like Magic,
johnson when of Course i'm five by that point at,
thirteen probably five, three five, Four But i'm dribbling as

(05:22):
If i'm some six' nine point guard. RIGHT now i
was a lot of fun to play pick up basketball
WITH because i enjoyed making a. Great. Pass right that
was the, you know the identity that you Had With.
Magic johnson and the point being is THAT so i
rooted For the lakers primarily through the Lens Of. Magic
johnson HOW did i? Know? This Well when miami finally
got a team at. The HEAT when i moved and

(05:43):
had everyday Basketball, IN washington i realized it Wasn't THE lakers,
i followed It Was, magic, Johnson right and my disconnect
From the lakers Happened When magic johnson essentially stopped being
a primary the primary star Of, the LAKERS and i.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Moved on and it's still sort of.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Both the strength OF the nba and the weakness OF the,
nba said it's very much, individual driven not. Team driven Outside,
The lakers celtics and to a lesser extent, than, next
right there certainly are people that are passionate more about
the team than. The player but you look at you
Go To, los angeles There are laker fans and There are,
kobe fans and they're not always the. Same thing There
Are magic johnson Fans and, laker fans and yes there's

(06:23):
a shared, ven diagram but it's not always the. Same
thing and that's WHAT makes i think this book compelling.
TO me, i mean it's a. Business book this IS
why i think. It's worth it's a, culture book understanding,
you know the modern day. CULTURAL sports, i mean, you
know in Many Case lebron james is going to be
one of the foremost important, millennials, ever right he is

(06:46):
in when it comes. To sports he very much was transformational,
to sports to the culture, of sports the business, of
sports the player, empowerment era all of. Those things and
so this IS why i enjoyed. This book this IS
why i enjoy. This conversation this is not about on.
The court this is about sort of the zeitgeist off.

(07:07):
The court it's about the business, of basketball the business,
of Sport, the Lakers the, bus family all of. Those
THINGS so i do think it's my long way, of, saying,
ultimately right you get book interviews that, interest Me and
i'm hoping that my interest in it translates into making
you interested. In. It right that's sort of the compact
we all make here with the podcast world that we

(07:29):
all live in. These days, so fully this is something that,
interests ME and i know there's a subset of my
audience it's interested. In it if you're, normally not this
is why we give you. The option you don't a
way to have to listen to every. INDIVIDUAL interview, I
DO but i do think even if you're not a,
sports fan the community in and around All Things lebron

(07:54):
james is something that even if you're not a, sports
junkie is something that you is worth understanding and worth
understanding in in. Greater details, SO anyway i enjoyed. This Conversation,
UH so i thought i'd give you a little bit of.
My Backstory and i'm curious please. Share away how many,
of you particularly if you're in sort of the, aar

(08:17):
more found. Your way like my son's A Huge phoenix.
Suns fan why Because Of. Devin booker he's never Lived.
In phoenix we've never Lived, in phoenix we have no Connection,
to phoenix but he in some ways. Got there he
THINKS to NBA two K and booker was the young
guy when he, started following and he gravitated toward the more,
young players which is what young fans. Typically do, you

(08:38):
know you don't when you first become a Fan, of swarm.
You don't you don't gravitate to, the. Veteran right you
gravitate to the, hot rookie to the person that's only
a few years older. Than you it's somebody you have
a better chance of. Identifying with And so i'm curious
how many of you FIND yourself nba fans but got
there through, a player not, a team, you know and,
it's funny it's IT'S it's I and i lived and

(09:01):
Died Those. LAKERS celtics i got suspended for school for
a fight Over, a lakers, you know. BASICALLY gloating i
gloated in front of My, friend seconday last day, of
school gloated in front of him After the lakers one
in eighty five and.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
He just socked me in. THE face i socked.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Him back we got a Fight over Burden. And magic
i'm on the Side, of magic he's on the Side.
Of bird.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
And we hugged.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
It out we, were fine but it was sort, of
like that's that's the power, of, Sport right but that's.
How INTENSE and i always ASSOCIATED The nba finals with
the last week of school back in the in, the
day so it all sort of came. Together there but
before we get to, THE interview i kind of want
to answer a QUESTION that i kept getting from friends
and family over the last, few days and that was

(09:54):
an interpretation Of the President's truth, social feed which many
people don't See truth social but see it PERHAPS on
x or they, see it, you know repost It. ON instagram,
i mean it is interesting how this works now and,
of course you've heard me get into the mistake collectively

(10:15):
the world made in his attempt to try To Deplatform
donald Trump after. January sixth by, the way my what
if episode is coming later this week and early. Next
week you're going to get a couple of my, what
ifs including What If donald trump had won the twenty.
Twenty election BUT before i don't want to give away
too much of the store. On that but ever since,

(10:36):
right truth social been his primary way, to communicate and
people on x, repost it People on instagram, repost it
gets reposted on TikTok all the other social, media platforms
and being the president Of The, united states, YOU know
i do think there are things that don't get reposted
that if people saw them, more intently they would be
even more troubled by the psyche of. This PRESIDENT but

(10:59):
i got kept getting a question about one specific thing
he tweeted, or truthed however you want to, call it
and that is when he was, tweeting about like just
his Anger, over epstein which clearly anything that anything that
makes him look bad he gets. Angry about and, you
know sort of the grievance, comes out, the victimization and,

(11:19):
you know let's make other people pay the price before
he has to pay. The, Price right Let's called vernie and,
said this and it was, something like this may be
your Last, merry christmas. You KNOW and i had a
lot of, people go what does he mean? By that,
you know seeing it as, a threat seeing it as what?
Is it and, you, KNOW look i will fully CONFESS

(11:40):
that i ignore most of his, YOU know i. SEE
them i ignore most of them because IT really i
don't believe he. Means anything this is. TO me i
think about the time period with which we get most.
Of these we get him after ten o'clock, at night
sometimes at three or four in The Morning east, coast time.

(12:01):
You KNOW and i think we all think about the
person in your life that you notice is on social
media a lot at. Odd hours these are people that
have some form. Of anxiety perhaps they're, super lonely maybe
things aren't going well. At home and THAT'S what i
always come back to when you have the president doing
This On, christmas Day On christmas, eve night going all,

(12:26):
through this and you're, asking yourself oh, my god what
is wrong with? This MAN and i look at it
as a this is a cry. For help this guy.
Is lonely he really doesn't have anybody he's. Close with
IT is i know this will come across sounding like,
a hater but you know. He doesn't. He is he

(12:47):
is close with his kids because he's supposed. To be
but if, you know if you've done reporting about his
actual personal relationships with, his kids you will know they're.
Not great. There isn't it is a one. Way relationship
and that's been. The problem all of his relationships are.
One way he, uses people he, discards them which may

(13:07):
explain why you never hear things like former college Roommate
Of donald trump stopped By Mar a lago to hang out.
With him, you know a friend that he grew up
with has been, you know show it.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Doesn't happen there are no.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Old friends he has old acquaintances that he discards or
uses whenever he. Deems. Necessary Right jeffrey epstein is probably
the best version. Of this here was somebody he was quite,
close to and then he drops him like a rock when.
He starts and this is what he does When any
he is not going to be a friend when you're.

(13:44):
In trouble he expects you to be. A, friend though
when he's, in TROUBLE and i think it explains why
that on a Day Like, christmas day when most of
us the last thing we're going to be doing is
behaving lonely on, the internet, he does and it is

(14:05):
most people, ignore it most people don't. SEE it i
do view it as some, sort of, you know personal cry,
for help which IS why i very much think that
his social issues really do are a part of sort
of the lack of character that he has to be
leader of the. Free world but that's NOT where i
want to focus, that conversation BECAUSE what i really want

(14:27):
to there is something else that we learned via his
feed all Through the christmas sort of that thirty six
hour period of a little Bit Before christmas day and
a little bit Of After, christmas day and that is
sort Of the trump doctrine was on. Full Display right
if you're looking for a consistent moral Compass in american

(14:49):
form policy, right now you're not just looking in the.
Wrong place you're looking at a map that's been rewritten by.
A sharpie and if you want to Understand what i'm,
by that don't start with this national, security Strategy which
i've already explained in detail a few. Episodes ago don't
start With a. Pentagon, briefing instead you have to start

(15:09):
with the truth social Feed Of donald Trump's On, christmas
day because over that thirty six Hour Stretch, Christmas Eve,
christmas day and the, morning effort you actually could see
The entire trump second term worldview play out in. Real
time there were, holiday greetings there were, religious proclamations there,
were threats there were, missile strikes there were, deportation talks

(15:31):
ominous warnings that sounded more like a mob boss than
a head. Of state and it. Wasn't chaos it. Wasn't
doctrine it was just. Simply doctrine it was. Not chaos
so let's walk through. It all so in the twenty
four Hours, Before Christmas donald trump was already setting. The
tone he's Doing The norrad, santa, calls right the simplest

(15:52):
thing you're supposed to do, as president, you know having
a little Fun with norad is santaw are We tracking
santa around? The globe but, even there he's warning About
bad santa's infiltrating. The country border rhetoric wrapped. In tinsel by,
the way it Sounds Like donald trump is a fan
of my single favorite Cheech and chong RECORD that i.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Owned on, forty five and that.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Is his Tale Of santa claus where he's stopped by. Border,
patrol anyway. It is if you've Never heard Chiech and
Chong And, santa claus Please. It's cheech tell him the
Story Of. Santa Claus, to chong, it's amazing it's FANTASTIC

(16:38):
and i used to have it memorized at the age.
Of eight don't judge. My parents so he's talking About.
Bad santam then comes the now famous Post Wishing merry
christmas to the of course radical. Left scum so he
always wants to attack fellow, human beings call them scum
if they politically don't agree.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
With, him again pretty much the worst ATTRIBUTE.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
The us president, could have particularly. This, one then of
course there's he attacks on, the media the threats to
review broadcast licenses because he was mad because again he's
lonely and he has nothing to do but, watch television watch.
Late television he gets mad and they're making jokes at,
his expense and he. Feels isolated all of this Was before,
christmas dinner and Then On christmas day itself. At Escalated early,

(17:21):
christmas Morning the president announces that THERE are us military Strikes,
in nigeria and he's described them as quote powerful and
deadly AGAINST the isis. Affiliated, militants now obviously it was
very important for him to create legal justification by claiming
THIS was isis. Affiliated, militants okay, but listen but do
listen carefully to. The language this wasn't about counter, terrorism

(17:43):
capacity it wasn't Even about, nigerian sovereignty and it wasn't
even about. Regional stability it was simply. About Religion the
president framed the strikes as a Defense of christians from
what he. Calls slaughter he literally wishes A merry christmas
to quote the. Dead terrorists that's not, policy language that's. Civilization.

(18:04):
Language okay And, In nigeria america isn't acting like a.
Strategic partner it's acting like a. Moral avenger he literally
thinks of this as part of. The crusades this is
the first color of the trunk doctrine religious identity as
a justification. For force and notice, Something important this only

(18:25):
works WHERE the us can, act unilaterally not against non
state actors with no risk. Of escalation that of course.
Matters here now let's Move to venezuela And the. Western Hemisphere,
in venezuela the language changes completely when he talks. About.
It here it's not, about faith it's not about. Human
rights it's. About ownership that's Why the minorman doctrine gets

(18:49):
talked about quite. A bit when trying to understand his Motivation,
with Venezuela the president boats about a massive. Naval presence
he calls it. An armada he talks about oil that was,
quote stolen about assets that must. Be returned this isn't,
democracy PROMOTION although i could argue that's the better Justification,

(19:10):
for venezuela but he never talks. About that this is repoman,
to pumacy if. You will he sees himself as basically
the thug Helping the american. Oil COMPANIES the us is
acting less like a guaranter of regional stability and more
like a collection agency with. Aircraft carriers that's pillar. Number
two resources. Justify coersion and here's the. Key Distinction in

(19:34):
venezuela's strength. Means Seizing, in nigeria strength. Means striking it's a.
Different language it's the. Same, logic now let's Move. To,
Ukraine right he's going to be meeting this week and
we'll see if. Something happens, i'm skeptical which IS why
i don't want to make a huge deal over the
meeting and mar Lago between Zelenski. And trump but we

(19:55):
See that zelensky is at least trying To keep trump,
from striking, you know essentially some sort of Compact with
russia and Essentially leaving ukraine on.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Their rough.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
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off so let's compare Both of Nigeria and venezuela To the,
ukraine situation because this is where the moral code. Completely Disappears,

(21:38):
in ukraine the rhetoric isn't, about civilization not Least from
trump's point. Of view it isn't, about resources at least.
Not upfront it's about ending, the bloodshed which sounds noble
until you look at. The mechanics military, aid paused intelligence.
Sharing throttled then the pressure is applied not to the

(21:58):
invader but to, the person to the entity that. Was
invaded and what's quietly folded into this so called peace
plan a minerals deal that benefits Only The united, states, lithium.
Titanium Uranium so ukraine's sovereignty is. Simply collateral this is pillar.
Number three negotiating leverage beats. Moral clarity So in nigeria we.

(22:22):
Fire Missiles, in venezuela we. Blockade Ports in ukraine we
walk away and call. It strength so the question is
how inconsistent is all? Of this is it inconsistency or
is it simply? A system because there are. Many critics on,
one hand you look at this and you say this
is not coherent. At all it's. Completely incoherent but it

(22:43):
depends on how you look at How trump. Use thinks
and if you look at it through the umbrella of,
selective transactionalism well then it all starts to. Work together
military force is used when the enemy fits a domestic
Political narrative christians for the, evangelical. Base migrants when it Comes,

(23:03):
to venezuela the cost, is low Right then asuella as
not really Attacking The, united States, neither's nigeria and the leverage.
Is total when those conditions, don't exist Like Confronting vladimir Putin,
or shijingping the moral language just. Completely vanishes that's why
there are no missile strikes Over the Wigers.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
In.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
China right what's the difference between protecting that religious minority
versus what the Persecution of Muslims In western china versus
the Persecution of Christians. In nigeria that's why Me and
mark gets, ignored again the same thing religious minorities essentially.

(23:45):
A genocide That's why ukraine gets a spreadsheet instead of. A,
Shield right so the question is what kind of long
term change does this Create with america's relationship with. THE
war i personally think this is damaging us for, a
generation and it's going to take us a generation to

(24:07):
win back enough allies to restore freedom and democracy around. The,
World okay and you can call me an expansionist all. You,
WANT yeah i am pro democracy and. PRO freedom i
know that, every civilization, every tribe will take a different
path to. Get there BUT ultimately i believe in what

(24:30):
was written In the Declaration of independence that we have.
Inalienable rights so what do our allies see in? All,
this well here's the PART there i think matters. The
most this Isn't changing american, form policy but it is
Changing how americas perceived and europe leaders no longer are
whispering about this. Issue anymore they're openly talking about what's called. Strategic,

(24:50):
autonomy translation we Don't trust washington and we Can't trust.
America anymore some that are very much in the isolation
of Wings good europe should pay for their. Own security
america shouldn't be. Doing it, To this i'm always ready
to Respond, WITH okay i. Get it you Don't want
america to be THE, world's beacp but you do know
somebody's going to be the world's. Bee cop you really

(25:12):
want putin and she to decide who the bea? Cop
is or do you Want The united states? To decide
but let me put a pin. In That, in nigeria
officials are scrambling to have to walk back to the
religious framing because they're now turning a counter terrorism operation legit.
Counter terrorism this is. Radical extremism this isn't about some
crusade fight Between the Christians. And MUSLIMS although i do

(25:35):
think the president's trying to appease a small group of
people in this country who do see it, as this
but they're turning this count when you turn a counter
terrorism operation into a quote, religious Crusade what nigerians fear
is that this is going to put a target on their,
own citizens because if you start to justify Killing via

(25:57):
god rather than sort of via the actual humans living on,
this planet that is how you get, more bloodshed and
that's how you get no remorse with. That Bloodshed In,
latin america governments That dislike maduro are Alarmed at america's
behavior because if oil seizures, become precedent than any resource

(26:20):
rich Country In latin america could. Be next america isn't
being seen. As unreliable it's simply being seen, as, transactional
frankly no Different. Than china and if we're going to
behave the exact Same way, china does which is, essentially
transactional pure, and simple then don't be surprised when people
that used to be our, ally, say Huh maybe i'll

(26:40):
get a better Deal. From china that's kind of, a
problem don't, you think which gives us leads me TO
what i believe is a. Brand, Problem now so for seventy,
five years rightly, Or wrongly america sold. One idea we
sold the idea that, borders matter that. Sovereignty matters and
look what we did to defend the Sovereignty of. Kuwit successfully,

(27:04):
mind you force is constrained by an accepted set. Of
rules now the rule, is simple what's in it? For
us and can we? Enforce it that's. Not leadership it's essentially. Portfolio.
Management right he sees himself as the head of a
private equity fund who's just trying to make that fund, more, financially, bigger.

(27:28):
Wealthier etcetera and here's the but here's. The dangers if
allies don't want to be, our customers they're going to,
Shop Around. Hello beijing and if credibility, becomes conditional partnerships
will become. Extraordinarily temporary so in a World with Moscow,
in beijing this Is again putin's worldview is. Everything's transactional

(27:51):
there is no, moral clarity there is no, you know
democracy's bullshit as Far as. Putin's concerned and if we accept,
his Worldview Which donald, trump does this is the. Huge
problem and so does She and that's why. He gravitates
that's why he won't confront when they, violate norms but

(28:13):
he will confront anybody else who's quote smaller Than The
united states when. THEY do i think it leads us.
Very vulnerable so here's. The problem trump might get a
few short term. Wins, here, hey look he protected a
Handful of Christians. In nigeria maybe maybe he TOOK, out
isis or maybe he just radicalized religious extremists even More

(28:35):
in nigeria seizing. A, tanker okay you're going to create
regime Change. In venezuela are we going to? Manage that
or are we just going to walk away and let
the chips fall where they? May not managing dictatorships that
fall and helping with it leads to some really. Bad

(28:56):
outcomes see My time Todd Cast time machine segments On
The ottoman empire and the fall Of The soviet union basically.
Another empire.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
But you can lose the.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
One asset we are losing the one asset that mattered,
a lot and it's frankly an asset we talk about
in my fight to restore legitimacy, and media and that.
Is trust and once trust, is gone no amount, of
missiles minerals or holiday posts can buy. It back we're
not leading the world. Right now we're negotiating it one

(29:34):
transaction of, a time and that's an extraordinarily risky thing
for us. To do and We ignore trump's crazy on
his social media posts because, we, think hell, you know he's,
all bark very. Little bite but the bites he does
DO and i agree the bites are smaller than. You
think but the bites that he does do sets, us

(29:55):
back sets us back on trust around, the world just
like he. Has done he wants to any institution that
has ever, been legitimate he tries. To delegitimize he did IT,
With nato he's done it with. Mainstream media he. Does
it he does it in so, many aspects does it
with the rule. Of law he just, you know it is.

(30:16):
It is he is in, some WAYS like, I said
i want TO. Be tv i've called him, this before
a WANNA be. Tv mobster real mobsters are sort of
smaller and pettier and not as and not as Glamorous
as trump builds him up in. His Head but trump
is a creature, of, fiction right he. Is not his

(30:37):
ideal is something he saw in. A movie or on a.
Television show it's not something that's. Actually. Existing right this
has always been the disconnect Between The donald trump Version
of america and the actual Version. Of america What the
america he wants to make great again is the one
he Saw Via John. Wayne, films right it's Not the

(30:58):
america that actually in the fifties. And sixties and so
it is a bit of. A fantasy and it's just
like what kind of leader he wants. To be he
admires Guys Like john gotti on an, actual mobster but
he also admires People. Like putin he does admire People Like,
tony soprano a, fictional mobster because of the total and

(31:20):
complete control. They had and that's ultimately, it's clear whatever
it is that he's never had in, his life he
keeps looking for something to have, more control to be,
in charge to, be venerated to. Be wards but whatever,
it is he's and in Some ways i've, always said lucky,
for us he's still looking for some sort of human

(31:42):
acknowledgment of, his existence which in some ways may explain
why he behaves the way. He, behaves right he is desperate.
For affection i've seen. It MYSELF when i compared HIM,
TO fdr i didn't compare him positively. OR negatively i
just compared. Him factually he saw it as a positive
because that's what. He wants he wants to be seen
as bigger than. The moment he wants to be seen

(32:05):
as somebody who were all stuck learning about, in history
whether we like it. Or not and in some ways
he thinks. Great people your greatness is measured by how
much impact, you have regardless of whether that impact is positive.
OR negative i, really truly and this to me has

(32:26):
always been the. Warning side you know. IT does, i
mean it's alarming what we may end up Doing. With,
Ukraine now i'm pretty confident the unintended consequence of this isolationist,
foreign policy that the pres the sort, of transactional semi isolationist,
foreign policies sort Of, anti europe is that it's going

(32:49):
To strengthen europe and it's going to Make The european
union a more an actual competitor to. Us economically it's
going To strengthen europe's INVOLVEMENT in nato in such a
way that we may we may miss the influence we.
Once HAD so i do think There's and that's, the,
Thing right there's always unintended consequences that develop when we

(33:11):
try to engineer the world through, our prism and we
want everybody to see things absolutely through the prism of
how he wants to. Make things everybody else gets to
say in. This too and while it looks like there's
no consistency into this, foreign policy we are starting to see.

(33:32):
A consistency he picks on smaller entities to try to make.
A point he ultimately, sees things as, you know like
he did With the. Iraqi oil he still to this
day believes that oil Belongs to america since we Helped,
liberate iraq that that should be. The price everything is,
a transaction which is the exact Worldview That vladimir putin

(33:53):
has been preaching since he took office at the start
of this twenty. First Century, All right so with that
we will transition From One christmas day unpacking of our
politics to the other issue that pops Up Every, christmas
day the relevance and INTEREST of. Nba basketball how's that

(34:13):
for a really, ROUGH transition, i kid let's sneak in
a break when we. Come back Your own whitzman on
HIS Book A, Hollywood ending lebron And, the lakers and
what has been an, uncomfortable partnership, Right Is lebron james
is always going to be at least number four on
the All time, laker list Right Behind. Magic kobe and

(34:37):
there's a real there's a real generational debate of. Who's
one Magic or kobe both have. Five titles who's won on?
THAT one i KNOW where i. Come down Then, there's
kareem who some argue should be above all, of. Them
right Then There's wilt Chamberlain On lebron james kind of
nomadish all timers who were mostly, is so who were

(35:00):
associated With the lakers for, a time who did great
things on, other franchises and SORT of i think the
questions Are they lakers? Or not and you KNOW what
i MEAN when i asked. That question, all right let's
sneak in the break you're on watch not the. Native
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Speaker 4 (37:06):
That.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Code so as many of, You know i'm as a huge,
sports fan even worked in the briefly helped found a
publication focused. On sports i'm always obsessed with the nexus
of sports culture politics. In, GENERAL obviously i think many
of us now realize politics is downstream from culture as.

(37:29):
IT is I also i am a huge believer that
sports is something that actually is a way to knit
the country's polarized communities, back together particularly on the. LOCAL
level i still think it's the answer on. LOCAL news
i say all that as my way of trying to
give all of us the excuse who are focused on
the political world every now and then to focus on my.

(37:51):
Next guest it's Your. Own whitesman he's author of a
new Book Called. Hollywood ending It's the Dreams and drama
Of The lebron Lakers h, and yes it's going to
be a bit about the drama of all things having
to do With, the Lakers. Basketball LEBRON but i think
we all it's fair To say lebron is part of
the larger Zeitgeist of america and perhaps the Same Way

(38:15):
taylor swift is part of the Zeitgeist. Of america people
do want to know What does lebron Think About? Donald
trump right type? Of thing, and oh by, the way
What does lebron Think About? Michael jordan? Right like and
in that sense that that is sort of the world we.
Live in and that's part of my goal of this
podcast is to sort of always have an aperture that's
wide enough to include all aspects. Of that so there's

(38:38):
my rationale and excuse for taking a love it break.
Your ownA it's good to meet.

Speaker 5 (38:43):
YOU too i love, YOU know i Like that you're
making me feel better.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
About myself so there.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
You go thank, you well You, pitched look you pitched
me on this and you did probably say it's, a
LOT but I have i've always been. YOU know i
know a lot of people know that that follow me
through politics know. That, it uh, you know a better
than average sports fan Is how i'd like to present
Myself that i'm Not an i'm not a moron, about
IT and i do have strong feelings, about IT but

(39:10):
I am i love the culture and IF if i
could have trade trade careers, With, YOU roman i would have.
Done it i'm guessing there's a lot of sports writers
AND reporters i know that would love to be political writers,
and reporters and there's a lot of political reporters and
writers that would love to be.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
Sports reporter grass is, always, Greener RIGHT but i started
in the, local, news right so when you talk about
your local news stuff, and UH and i know what you're,
doing now you know MY first i still joke that
nobody was ever meaner to me Than the scarsdale to,
this DAY including, nba people Than These Scarsdale new york
cheerleading moms WHO thought i had something out against their
CHILDREN who i weren't featuring enough at after. After, meet,

(39:46):
so yeah you.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
You were born with a with a bias? Agonds cheerleaders
is that? Trying? Naturally, yes, Correct.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Correct well, in fact let's let's spend a couple of
minutes tell me about how you, you know how you
got to being a.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Book author it always the goal of a lot.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Of reporters can you get to the point where you
don't have to do the day to day grind, as
much where you can do the long, form reporting the
eighteen month projects rather than the eighteen. Hour.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Projects yeah so, FOR me, i MEAN so, i STARTED like,
i said local news covering In the journal News In
westchester rockland area and local sports. Out here, AND yeah
I mean nba was always. My sport basketball is always my.
Favorite sport and just, FOR me i learned early on
that the sort of my, BRAIN works i like diving
into subjects and kind of honing in on things and

(40:32):
not being day. TO day i also saw sort of
where the business was going and, THOUGHT that, i mean
now it's maybe kind of the. Other way but, you
know ten years ago there was this whole long form
thing and, feature writing.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
And there was a bit of a renaissance.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Around it in.

Speaker 5 (40:44):
A way if you can do good stuff that reporting,
in it. That's part but the other part is it's.
More imporing It's but I'm actually I'm a sabbath, observant
JEW so i knew that being a beat writer was
not necessarily going to be that wouldn't let itself Out on.
Friday nights we taught of some stuff that, happened THERE
so i have to sort of adjust.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Around that so a mix. OF it I just i
just even.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
THE way, i mean it's more of a media, conversation
too but sort of so much as, SPORTS reporting i
think other reporting, in general but sports reporting now has
gone into, the. Insider right you have these main ten.
Pole insiders Adrian wol zanowski was a name not, there
anymore but these are, you know if you're not big
sports fan who recognize, Somebody's Names adam schefter and the
the day to day scoops go to them and just

(41:26):
it's just it's been.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Punted, basically otherwise well.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
It's access, YOU know i always, say this, YOU know
i go to a lot of.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Journalism, schools yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
PARTICULARLY after i left meet the press as we try
to figure out how to how to, you know how
are we going to fix this sort of this, next
generation a little bit of of of whether it's a
trust issue and all. Of THAT and i talk about
the different forms. Of journalism there's accountability, journalism there and,
you know, in politics when you're an, access journalist that's
as negative as. It, comes oh you're just you're just being.

(41:53):
Spoon fed You're the, trump reporter or you're the Or
the schumer reporter or something. Like that where in, sports
sorts if you're not if you don't have access to,
the building you can't do your job as the. Beat
reporter it's. Not fair so you sometimes have to pull
a punch because these are. Private organizations right, In politics

(42:14):
i'm covering a taxpayer funded organization.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And they, need, you right they need you to get
the message, out.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
LIKE well i, don't know like arguably LESS so i
would argue that that less on that it's more of
we at least Have the Freedom Of, information, act right
we have things that we can use because it's taxpayer
funded and they can't really, you know we Have That, first,
amendment right and it is About The first amendment is

(42:41):
about government getting in the way a private organization can
decide who they. Talk to any anytime. They WANT and
i remember we locally we got a taste of this
when The Then washington redskins, now Commanders When dan schneider.
Opened him he just Barred The washington post from being
able to cover. The organize So The washington posts could

(43:02):
cover The Controversy, rondane schneyder but they couldn't tell you
who was injured this week and was who was practicing
this week because they weren't. Allowed in and that was
a disservice to the readers Of The. Washington POST so
i always struggle with this issue in sports of just,
you know there's no doubt you just identified there's like
three or four guys that get all. The handouts but those.

(43:23):
Are handouts let's not pretend they're anything other though, for
sure one.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
Hundred percent that's a big part, of, It RIGHT and,
i mean now we're not and it becomes, you know
anonymous horses For reasons i'm not really fully, sure why
and so so for me it is kind of, Figuring,
Out okay i'm not going to be one of, Those
guys so what's the? Other lane and the other lane
is sort of this more in. DEPTH reporting, i mean
what you're saying is, so true and it's this is
not me selling the book in, this.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Way but like one of the THREE reasons I thought
i could write.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
The book I'm A, NEW yorker i don't Cover the lakers,
a lot and there were issues With the lakers, at
ME but i don't rely on them like THE arena
i go, TO mostly i Go To Masive. Square garden
that's THE team i, deal with which it's their. Own
problems we can talk about the. Nick separately but If,
the lakers If the lakers got annoyed, in me and, they,
Did like i'm not dependent on them for a credential
to do, my JOB and i thought that was A

(44:08):
value i could bring to the to the books specifically
because exactly what, you're, saying, yeah no one.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Hundred percent and in some ways it's always been the
case at any news organization that if you're going to
do an, investigative piece don't don't actually Let the beat
Have the beat reporters, do it because you're gonna cut
off your nose despite your, face exactly go get and
go get somebody who who is it there all, the
time right who can go in and sort of in
some ways it's a fresher set. Of eyes like if

(44:33):
you're with a team data day, to day weird stuff
comes across as normal to you because you don't know
the alternative versus you're coming from a farther away so
you can see. The weird you have a better shot
identifying the weird than the average beat writer Of, the lakers.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
For sure AND like, i say, you know part of
It is i've taken a few shots in this, media
tour Maybe at lakers beat, Writers necessarily but part of
it is also that it's.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Different job so if you.

Speaker 5 (45:00):
Are a laker, beat writers what you were saying About The, washington,
post Right if lebron's not talking, to you you're failing.
Your job like you are that your job is to
tell get. That access that's part of, the job and
you act part of the, dirty war but but that's
literally your job is To get lebron and tell fans what.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
That.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
Is Right SO I'M i i make fun of, it
Sometimes but I'm also SYMBER that i can understand, it
too and that's and that's and, it's, OKAY.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Right i think that that's. The THING like i look
at it, as, saying hey all, there's all there's a
lot of different flavors of journalism that. We need you need,
your accountability you need, your access you need, your service
like we could sit here and go. Through it so
you you went about this How many i'm guessing this
is not the first iteration Of a lebron book.

Speaker 5 (45:45):
You, PITCHED no i had a uh the FIRST all
i wanted to do we Start Is Lebron, big Three The,
miami Heat the Big Three heat and actually the reason,
my grandfather my. Grandfather moved he was not a, basketball
fan but he moved to of Course when new yor
jew so what do? You do when, he retired he
moved down to a century Village, in, florida right and
became a.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
All had a grandparent in century village At In, south
florida my great grandmother and GRANDFATHER where i think they
were the founding residents there in the.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
LATE seventies i love it right in the Clubhouse At
alray beach was our our was our. Century village so
my Mine.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
Was deerfield so he became a later in, HIS life
i think through me because he SAW much i. Love
sports he became A huge, heat fan huge where he
would he would watch he would, call me he would watch,
first take he would want he would get angry at
all the media guys who picked Against. The heat this
was when there was the big batan of. The backlash
he would he. WAS he i always compare him a
little bit To a jewish Version. Of miami people Might
Remember dan lebtard and he had his FATHER. On tv,

(46:41):
oh yeah, rappy, Hoppy right so It's a jewish version.
Of that so That that heat team had like a
special place in my HEART because i was talking about them.
A lot i had tried doing a book on the.
My order so The first LEBRON idea i HAD and i, always,
SAY no i, like Books and i'm the general Of
the big but it's also a. Commercial, endeavor uh so
you never HAVE thing i, Could Sell so lebron is

(47:01):
obviously that doesn't mean you have to be interested in the,
topic too but it has to be the commercial aspect.
To it AND so i Pitched the UH what i
wanted to do WAS that i had to propose on
Everything The Big three heat and just. Didn't work someone
else was going to do IT and i heard. About
it they ended up NOT doing i don't actually genuinely
don't know what, happened THERE but i HAD to i had,
to pivot and we ended Up.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
With lakers, you know, it's.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Tough you know with sports books is, YOU know i
sit there and like my favorite sports books are a
variety of. Different, types, Like uh october sixty four is
just an all timer for me because it's a book
that's not really, about, baseball right it's about the civil
rights movement and sort of the beginning and the end,
of it and then sort of the role. Sports played

(47:45):
and it's Just Obviously halbert stam is sort Of the
he's The north star, Sports, right like, you know nobody
does it, Like Him so i'm not going to say.
There's that BUT then i love some. Moral histories there's
a great one ABOUT the Aba Called Loose. Balls, falls
yep oh, my god it's it is ONE That i
my fandom for that book. ONLY grows, i mean it

(48:06):
was just like A terrific it's a reminder that there
are certain recent histories are sometimes better told via oral
history than trying having one writer's voice to try to capture.
The moment but the larger difficulty in sports books is
getting out of, a region right or getting out of a,
metro area which IS why, I mean i've pitched some

(48:29):
sports and politics books and have struggled to get publishers
to buy it because of. This issue lebron obviously is
somebody that's bigger for the REASON that i stated in.
Our introduction lebron is a, cultural icon not just a.
Basketball icon and then you merge it With, the lakers
also a, cultural icon AND suddenly i now see where

(48:50):
you have a.

Speaker 5 (48:51):
Commercial, VEHICLE yeah I, Mean lebron, like listen you could
be it's not even any, sports fan but even other not,
sports fans if You say, lebron opinions it's interesting because.
They don't they don't necessarily, like him and that's an
interesting THING that i find, About him like the obviously
compare Him to jordan always and it seems to elicit
a different.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Emotional response it's the strangest Are ARE and i guess
THAT'S where i want. To, start Yeah Because I'VE i've
i Will confess i've started. The book i've not finished,
the book.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
But well it is, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
It Is a this feels Like a, lebron book Not a. Lakers.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
BOOK yeah i think that's, probably true or THE way
i The way i've sort of thought it through is
it's like on the SO what i like. To do
one of THE things i like to write.

Speaker 5 (49:34):
About in THE way i sort of approach, MY job
i think is in THE way i summarize IT is
i like WRITING about i describe it the things that
happen behind the scenes that we don't see that impact
what happens on the court that we. Do, See right
and so, for me this is sort of a look
At the i'll call it the merger really because it's
more than a merger between these two iconic sporting Institutions
of lebron And the lakers and what that looks. Like

(49:58):
Together but lebron is sort of the, you know everything
goes to him and him and his agency and what.
That means AND later i do a lot of his,
political stuff which Around the bubble, twenty twenty around the
bubble and a lot of stuff he, did there and
then sort of his retreat from political life in, recent
years which we've SEEN and i have found. Really interesting,
SO yeah i MEAN that's i would agree with you.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
On that, you know it's interesting this MERGER that i
like that you described it as a Merger between lebron And,
the lakers BECAUSE when i think about all the other
superstars That the lakers, have, Acquired right kareem was, An
acquisition shaq was. An acquisition you Could argue kobe was
an acquisition because it was a Trade On, Draft NIGHT

(50:40):
but i. DON'T know I put kobe. In magic we're
Sort of lakers, for Life, Versus, kareem Lebron, and shaq
who were sort of the, hired guns, Right yea but
in the Case of Kareem, and Shack the lakers made them.
Bigger deals lebron arguably was a bigger a bigger brand

(51:02):
before going To, the lakers and in some ways he's
still a bigger brand Than the. Laker brand Is, that.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah it's so it's. SO interesting i. Completely agree and
one of THE things i looked at, is like Why
did lebron go To? The, Lakers right and to this
day you don't get a, clear answer and.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
It seems like an. Obvious answer i'll just we're going
to give to. Move hit the Business of lebron needed
to Be. In la so All of lebron's post basketball
life was going to be based out of Out Of,
southern california even if it was going to Be, in
vegas he was probably going to live In. Southern california
so it seemed to me it was just him preparing

(51:44):
for the, next chapter And the lakers were just the
most viable way. Exit strategy so.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
The, second part THERE'S why i think is interesting BECAUSE
that's i was gonna, Say that like it's, Almost, LIKE
okay i want to, do This and i'm, so, big
right the Brand of lebron is so big that what
can what THERE'S no i can't go play for ninety
nine percent of. The teams It's basically Lakers or knicks
were basically it like those are the two that. Would
work and he wanted to go out west because It
just knicks one because he's never Been A new, york

(52:11):
guy no, or no. WHATEVER reason i HAVE a i
Have a i'll ask you about. IT later i have
one theory as to why he Picked the heat Over
the knicks back in. The, DECISION okay i want to
get to that, with you but go. Keep, Going yeah
so it's and IT'S so i agree with you on
the post. Basketball stuff what's, interesting though it's been sort
of a mix of what that looks like and maybe
that's part.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Of it so at first we thought.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
It was gonna, be movies and He Did, space jam
but then that sort of disappeared a, little bit and
they have his his his longtime business Manager Friend maverick
carter sort of had This Spring, hill entertainment which maybe
people have, heard of and the reporting on that.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Is that's BASICALLY it's i don't want to say, a
failure but. It's not it's not doing.

Speaker 5 (52:47):
Great financially so you, had that, you know he there's about,
his wife like, the weather and he wanted his kids
to be out there and just he was Done. With
cleveland and again we're talking about that post, business stuff
the post playing career in. His businesses ownership is definitely
something he's. INTERESTED in i cover that.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
A lot and he Feels Like, LAS vega, i mean
it feels like it's an inevitable ownership group that that
he gets, to lead right.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
For sure and.

Speaker 5 (53:12):
He's uh one of the things that cover like he's
made Trips To, saudi arabia which most PEOPLE think. I
can't i, don't know he, hasn't said but most people
in these circles believe those are. Not, Coincidental right he's
invested in like a sell boating thing. OUT there i,
don't know but. He did some minister, of culture one of,
the princes which Whose name i'm not gonna even pretend,
to remember but one of the princes Hosted an instagram

(53:33):
Picture of Lebron There. Maverick carter so most people kind
of joined the connection that like money and face of, the,
ownership right that's kind of where we're gonna end up
with the uh with. That stuff but he is, so
big that's. The point Like, the lakers it almost feels
like the only team that could absorb him in that
and not be swallowed.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
By him there's a reason results matter more, than promises
just like there's A reason Morgan and Morgan is america's
largest injury. Law firm for the last thirty, five years
they've recovered twenty five billion dollars for more than half a.
Million clients it includes cases where insurance companies offered next,
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Speaker 2 (54:51):
They.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Win WELL but i COULD argue i say this as somebody,
who like, You know i'm Even though i'm in my,
MID fifties i was probably the first GENERATION of nba
fans that were fans of, a player not. A. TEAM
yeah i grew Up in miami in the seventies. And

(55:11):
eighties we didn't get the HEAT until i was literally graduating.
High school that's when we got. The heat, You Know,
ronnie ceychelee he was the big first star that. We
had AND so i was a, magic guy. You KNOW
and i had a friend who was a, bird, Guy
RIGHT and i had another friend who became who Was the, jordan,

(55:32):
Guy right and you know that's how we rooted for
basketball in the seventies, and eighties and it's in some
ways it's still what basketball.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
Is.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Today right it's more player driven than. Team driven And
the lakers were one Of the lakers In the, celtics
royas the two franchises that most of the time were
bigger than, their, players right or at least were the
same size as their Players See. Magic Johnson the lakers
have been Good, for lebron But has lebron been good For?

Speaker 2 (55:57):
The lakers so it's it's so. Interesting thing so the
short answer. Is yes so this is one of.

Speaker 5 (56:02):
The things so the short, answers yes because you have
to remember the dark period they were in before they, got,
In right so this is. People remember so anyone who's
WATCHED the Hbo Show, winning time which is based on
Another great lakers.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Book Show, called SHOWTIME And Hbo couldn't COULDN'T a tv
show Called, shot correct which is.

Speaker 5 (56:20):
Hilarious exactly so the Book was Showtime By, jeff prowlman
who's like the best sports author going.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Right, now hey football For. A buck i had him
on this Podcast. Talking, Trump yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
I'm sure so he's like the best. Of this so
that book just gets on The Magic. Kareen lakers this
show gets made to bring. It up So That's, jerry,
buss Right and jerry buss is, People know i'm his iconic,
uh owner just larger than. Life figure all that Builds
the lakers into the thing that we all know. They are, he,
dies leaves leaves, the children Leaves the lakers to a

(56:54):
trust of. Six children AND when i, you know the
term it's like succession but is, a cliche but it really,
is that like this is really, sports succession Where like
jerry BUSS is I Guess brian, cox's character except he
goes To the playboy mansion a little.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
More and he had a little. LESS money, i mean
the dirty little secret About the lakers And the bus
family is, how basically and That's What winning time did
a good job. Of explaining bus was sort of Like
The donald trump of. His era he had he always
used other, people's money correct to pretend he, was wealthy
like he didn't really.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Have.

Speaker 5 (57:26):
Well correct and so he leaves the team and he's
got his children fighting over it and they're not it's
not a.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Good situation he basically leaves it where he.

Speaker 5 (57:34):
Leaves a trust in a Way where jeannie the daughter
is in charge of the, business side jim the son
is in charge, of Basketball but geenie's actually in charge of.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
It all it's saying to, you mean.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
The former, Presidential Candidate. Jimmy, buss that's.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
By, the way.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
The succession that was when really it went to succession
because he is was a connor.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
WHATEVER heal, I mean, I mean i'll never forget getting
that press Release like may of.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Last year, you know, you're, like wait what he's filed?

Speaker 5 (58:02):
Exactly exactly, oh, Wait though I'm gonna i'm. Gonna confirm
sorry It Was, Johnny Buss, Johnny Bus. Johny, buss sorry
john this is, the, Third, right Jimmy, there's genie And.
There's Johnny, There's, Jimmy, Jeannie, Johnny Janney. Joey JESSE now
i remember if you can get all, those kidding it's.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
All. Jays yeah among the ones, we know all the
same mom, or, no, no no that's, the okay the
original four or the four older ones with, one mom
two younger ones with a. Second mom one came out
later with the. THIRD mom i don't know what else.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Is that so there's the THERE'S another tv show that's
out there that's also about the kind Of About, Genie, buss.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yes, running back that, is yeah nobody is watching. That,
show yeah and.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
That they did do the storyline, of hey look one
of the concessions, guys said out, of wedlock brother Of.
YOURS genie i have to.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
Tell you nobody has watched that show with a more
critical eye than me because some, of it so much
of it is True.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
That i'm watching it and, being like oh, my god
who came up with? This? Idea WAIT do i have
to look? Into this it's just, something real.

Speaker 5 (59:04):
Because there's enough that is true There that i'm, Thinking,
like okay maybe she's the.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
EXECUT producer I.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
THOUGHT leani i was just, Gonna Say jenny buss IS
an ep, on, It, right.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah she's an.

Speaker 5 (59:13):
Execut producer so THAT'S what i was, LITERALLY like i
was taking notes on. That show i'm Not even i'm
not even like nobody else watched a show like.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
It's passive it. Was decent it's a passive, entertainment show.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Right right the Woman From Almost, Famous, hudson yeah, Thank.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
You but i'm watching it like, you know people watch
Like the wire and like. College courses, You know i'm
just taking notes.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
On it you can.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Find exactly so they said those kids and it's.

Speaker 5 (59:38):
A disaster i'll go the full, quick version like It's
a genie has to fire. Her brother her brothers then
try to take the team from her in a. Boardroom
coup that. Doesn't work she keeps, the team and this
is and then They give kobe this ridiculous contract sort
of a golden parachute of a contract end his career
and sort of bring back to, your question like what
mattered more They needed lebron was this lifeline sort of
this we are in this dark Period and lebron comes and, it's,

(01:00:00):
like No the lakers, Are Back eye genie boss like,
MY father i can get.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Stars too we.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
Are back so that's where he had an immense impact
on them and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Her, specifically well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
That's interesting that you, say that because when you really look,
at it if you take away the, bubble, title Ye
the lakers THEY'VE been i guess was it two years
ago they were a three seed or a two seed
or was it last year that three seed?

Speaker 5 (01:00:25):
They made last year of the three seed they Made the,
conference finals kind of like you know back in they
backed in a couple of, years, ago.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Right but they've really not been. A factor they just
you can feel that they're not. A factor they just
don't have. Enough depth and it, goes, to frankly just
a total mismanagement of their, front, office right mortgaging so
many of their draft picks where. THEY were i mean
they had some. Draft picks they just sort of pet, them,

(01:00:52):
away right, you, know yeah, you look, you know Whether
It's lonzo ball.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Or, whatever correct the kind Of as i've.

Speaker 5 (01:00:58):
Been doing this is THE way i describe it is
like you can't say they want, a title so you
can't say it was. A failure so THE way i
say it is it Was the lebron ten YEAR in
la was. A. Success butt and the butt IS if
i told you when he got there in twenty eighteen
that you would get. Eight YEARS and i think, this
IS like, i joke it's going to be a trivia
question people get wrong in. Twenty years This is lebron's
longest consecutive stretch with. One team It's, the laker This current, lakers,

(01:01:20):
stretch right that's the team he spent the most consecutive years.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
With right so you told you you're gonna, get yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Go, ahead, No. No no that's interesting because it then brings
up the question of what logo does he go In
the Hall? Of?

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Fame right it's fascinating and the idea Of being so
he's there eight years and he's been mostly healthy, until
that basically, mostly healthy and not just one title it
was in, a bubble but one, finals run like just one.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Finals appearance and the fact that makes it even more
interesting is the fact that the title and the main
high point happened in a literal bubble with, no parade
and they then have this sort of robbed fans of
his ability to emotionally connect to, these moments these things
that fandom is. Built ON and i just think it's
going to make his legacy in la really interesting and

(01:02:03):
honestly diminish it when we look back on it in
twenty years and going to, be, like wait what?

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Happened then what?

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Was this it's. A, strange no it's always going to
be The, third yeah it's never going to be the
first or second Part of. Lebron's career it's always going
to feel like. The coda it's always going to be. The,
CODA no, I agree, i agree but.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Just strange it's strength to.

Speaker 5 (01:02:26):
That point it's strange that like that is the LONG like,
i said that, longest, stretch right that that is not
a three year period but an eight year or. Maybe
nine we'll see what. Happens stretch that's the part that makes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
It strange let me, ask this why do You think
lebron wasn't a? Ring chaser, you know there's always been,
this thought is he a ring chaser? Or not he's
clearly not because if he wanted a, ring chase YOU
and i you, Tell ME but i think if he
wanted a, ring Chase the warriors would have found a
way to make room. For him, they called out of
my mind that they, caught, it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:59):
Right asked and, he said and it's. Really interesting it
shows you where his relationship was With the lakers in twenty.
Twenty four he was in one of his passive aggressive
tweet streaks or whatever when.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
He does and so.

Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
They called, they, figured okay We'll Call, genie buss and,
they Called And genie buss in a really, interesting answer
and she gets censorive, about this but she didn't. Say no,
she Said Call Rich paul lebron's agent call m and,
find out which is not a no right for like,
for her that's a, Big, OKAY like i don't know
if call him and he, Said no so he Made,
the yeah he's made.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
A choice he's made a choice to sort of keep
his ROOTS.

Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
In la maybe goes back to what we were talking,
about before for, whatever reason whether it's a, family thing
whether just deciding he doesn't want to play for a,
random team.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
YOU know i, just yeah he hasn't. Done it he hasn't.

Speaker 5 (01:03:40):
DONE it i don't know if he's still sensitive about,
you Know The Miami super team winking up and he
doesn't want that associated more, than LIKE look i.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
DO that i, don't KNOW but i agree.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
With, you well let me go Back to miami because
this one is a little more personal. To me you
Have The bill simmons version. Of, events, okay right, AND
look i don't know if you listened, to, him, yes yeah,
of course so, YOU well i mean then you know
where that he believes it was a peeing contest Between
pat Riley And. Lebron james and there was No Way

(01:04:10):
lebron james was never he was never going to stay
somewhere where he wasn't, the alpha And pat riley was
never going to keep somebody and play second fiddle. To
them is that the reason why that that. RELATIONSHIP ended i.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
Think, PARTLY yeah i would say THE part I would
riley did try like the and this Is but riley
did try to keep. Him right and part of it
is that he was offended The way lebron treated him
in this. Pitch meeting like there's a STORY about i
Forget maybe riley went Up to vegas to pitch Them
and lebron some of the guys like a soccer game on,
the Background and riley, just felt, you know offended because

(01:04:49):
this is and, he's right He's pat riley thought he
deserved a little.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
More respect the.

Speaker 5 (01:04:54):
Answer to that is probably what you're saying is probably
like that was the build up to that where sort
of this contest about who actually gets to, run things who's,
in charge who gets to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
WHOSE way.

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
I always compare the heat To like lebron's graduate school
almost right Where, Yeah cleveland.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
I'd heard him call it, college, Before, right okay, so
yeah it's, just, like, yeah yeah he learned how to
win and how to he, needed it and then he.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
Sort of took the things he got there and took
them out into the world with Him. Into, CLEVELAND then
i mean the reason he left and this is the
but the reason he left he wanted to Fix the, cleveland,
Narrative right they wanted to fix the. Decision narrative they
want to go back win a Title. In cleveland like
THAT was, i mean the fact that they went to
tell you?

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
About him what does that tell You? About lebron what
do you what do you? Take away not everybody would
feel that because he's never really going to live, there,
again right his kids may never. Live there, YOU know
i have an Attachment to miami that my son has no,
attachment to right because HE'S never i don't think his

(01:05:54):
kids really have an Attachment to Accron. In cleveland but
it meant something to him to do that. For sure
what does that tell you about him that maybe we
we we we overlook sometimes in our in our sort
of cheap descriptions of.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
THESE ubers, I mean i, mean one it's you care,
people THINK which i actually think is not a, you
know guess someone as. A NEGATIVE like I always i,
always laugh, you know in, MY job i always laugh when,
people say like when, the athletes sad will. Pay attention you,
all do and, it's fine like we. All do it's
the most, human thing like what are? You kidding and so,
it's caring. Right care people think that's a. BIG thing i, think,
that like is it more about legacy and caring what

(01:06:30):
people think as opposed to the. HOMETOWN thing i actually
think a bit. Of it but it's, also INTERTWINED and
i think at that point it's probably hard for to separate.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Those two and obviously bringing, THE title i mean that Was.
Looked cleveland, you know they haven't WON an nfl championship since.
The fifties they haven't won a baseball championship since. The
forties it was a B f d.

Speaker 5 (01:06:50):
One hundred like the way THE way i kind of
say he went back to a team it mattered so much,
to him and because he recognized how much it Mattered,
to cleveland he went back and was willing to take
checks and Play For. DAN gilbert, I Remember dan gilbert's
the owner of people don't know he's the owner Of.
The Cavaliers after lebron Goes, to miami, he Writes and
i'm not even gonna use the coded like it might,
be no it was a. Racist letter it was a
racist letter saying Basic How dale? Lebron leave it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Was terrible it was, terror right just like.

Speaker 5 (01:07:15):
IT was i forget who used but plantation like letter
was a phrase thrown around a lot by people who
by like, you know historians and people who all throw
that language. Around Lightly and lebron was willing and he's
still in. The caves lebron went back and it's not
like it's not Like he it wasn't THAT because i
always forgiven it because that was so important, to him
and it was so and he thought it mad it

(01:07:36):
would matter so much to, the city whether that's for
an ego for the city probably mix, them, both right
that he was willing to go back, and say you,
Know what i'm going to eat.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
IT this i want to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Do this of the, three franchises which one would build
a statue?

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
To, him WELL so, i Joke, THE lakers i think
are going they just, do, that right even though it's
Weird and la has.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Weird If the lakers do, it personally because it's not
he's the only, one, one sorry but.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
What it be weird if they.

Speaker 5 (01:08:00):
Did it that's the thing think about, like that like
would it be weird if they didn't. Do it because
You have, lebron again a, top five if not better player,
all time eight years on. Your team it's almost like,
A statement i agree, with you but it's almost like
a statement if you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Do it, all Right The washington wizards don't have a
Statue Of, michael jordan.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
But that was, two years right that we didn't. Own
it so, it's different but about. Two years it's not
the eight like that's.

Speaker 5 (01:08:21):
THE thing, i MEAN the la, relationship Again the LA's
Relationship to lebron is. So interesting it is the one
place he went there and he was, not welcomed like
it was. Not cheering there was there were murals of
him that were to face with Pictures. OF kobe a
lot of this goes back To The kobe lebron rivalry
a little that was a little, between them but on
a more, macro sentence it was between sort of their

(01:08:43):
respective fandoms and sort of GOING into i.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Never thought of it as much about Because, basically kobe,
you know his last championship is right but the year before,
the decision, right.

Speaker 5 (01:08:53):
Yeah and they and they never went up, each other
they never faced each other in, the finals which is.
Too bad but they were pitted against each other And
by nike and by marketing machines, and media and it
became a Thing where, kobe's fans Which are, lakers fans
WHO are i Mean The lakers kobe fans.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Fans are Not. All lakers The thing i've LEARNED about
LA and i have a my best friend lives out
there and he will he vouches for, this too which is.
Not all not All all laker Fans are, kobe fans
but Not all kobe Fans.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Are kobe's ahead in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
The, Hierarchy yes kobe is higher up in. The hierarchy
and this. Is double this was true before, he died
but it cementous after.

Speaker 5 (01:09:34):
He, Died yes and it's fascinating because then you think,
about it and then you Think about Kobe and lebron
and they are polar opposite in so many ways in
terms of their approach on, the court Where, like kobe
IT'S like i shoot over, Four guys lebron passes to the.
Open guy lebron's, you know all kinds of, Good teammate.
Night's guy kobe was a bit of, a, Bleepole right
kobe want to be Friends.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Like kobe would to link up with our players on.

Speaker 5 (01:09:53):
Their teams lebron, obviously does and it sort of, becomes
like that's The quote mamba mentality and his fans and
go to war for That quote mama mentality being correct
as Opposed to, lebron's approach and then all of, a
sudden this guy you've been arguing arguing against is dropped
into your city and it just creates these weird mix.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Of, emotions well, you know, it's interesting this this the Persona.
Of lebron, YOU know i Think about I'm a lebron. Defender,
generally YEAH meaning i look at a kid at fifteen
who's on the Cover Of, sports illustrated who's told he's
going to be the next greatest basketball player of, all

(01:10:33):
time that this guy's the heir Apparent Of. Michael jordan and.
It's true he lives up to an absurd set of
expectations that were set. For him, and oh by, the
way there's no major Scandal around. Lebron's life you've never,
you know, We can i'm sure you there's plenty of
rumors that you've had to deal with that you know
that people, would, say hey did you know this. About

(01:10:53):
him there's rumors about. Every celebrity ninety percent of them
are not true or so exaggerated they're more not true.
Than true but, You know i'm one, of those, you
know you sort of crowdsource. Somebody's life if he was a,
bad dude after twenty, five years we'd have a parade
of people telling us how bad of a dute. He,
was right he's clearly a. Good guy he's a pretty,

(01:11:16):
you know he's got a he's a good. Family man
he's very protective of. HIS mother i think that's why
he never was going to Go To. New york he
didn't Trust The new york tabloids to leave his. Mother
alone i've always believed That that's miami is this safe
space yep. For That we miami has never Had A
new york post culture Is what i'll. Call, it right
There's no. Page six celebrities are allowed to Live in

(01:11:39):
miami and people leave. Them alone it's very Similar. To
la there's just not as many Celebrities in miami as
there IS. In la but it's that. Same, thing oh
everybody leaves. Him alone, you, know nobody, you know we're
all we're all hiding from something Here. In miami that's why, we're,
Here right that's, That's okay and yet he, Seems POLARIZING
like i Understand why, kobe's polarizing but why the Hell?

(01:12:03):
Did lebron how did it Hell did lebron end?

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Up polarizing it's it's it's it's not a good it's,
the decision the. Original decision that's what. Does it and it's.
SO strange, i mean this.

Speaker 5 (01:12:13):
Is a harsh way to, put it but it can
Take the kobe. Comparison more, it's said people seem to
have less of a problem getting over a sexual assault
allegation and they do a pr free, agent THING which
i don't, buy this BUT like i could, spin it
that worst thing he ever did was do an awkward
free agent thing that raised money.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
For charity like that's the worst thing, he, did, Right.

Speaker 5 (01:12:34):
Right, AND again i know the charity thing is a
bit of a. COP out i don't know, full like
but on, its surface that's. What it that's what.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
It is and and YET and i think he's never recovered.

Speaker 5 (01:12:43):
From that AND it's, i mean it kind of goes
through your intro second about sports and what people feel
like they're entitled to as fans and what, we expect
how we expect athletes to uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Serve us and it's it taps into all these. Greater things.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
You know it's interesting. THE decision i would argue that
was the last moment where a majority of fans took
the side of franchises, over players because ever, since then
fans are more pro player.

Speaker 5 (01:13:11):
THAN franchise, i mean he sort of that and that's
sort of like that's part of the depart of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
His legacy ran ushrating the so called player powerm, that, right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Right he brought. It in he made a hell of
a lot of Money For. Kevin, durant right he blazed
a Trail For. Kevin, durant sure he blazed a Trail
For chris paul and some of these other guys that
made money ended up being able to sort of demand
what they want Or A, kyrie, Irving Right. James harden
we can go on. And on none of those guys
are able to do with get what they Got if

(01:13:41):
lebron hadn't done what he did right and he changed
so changed. The game and yet this pioneer is not
even held up in HIGH esteem i THINK among.

Speaker 4 (01:13:51):
NBA players i agree, it's, strange like obviously all respect his,
no one there's, no oh everyone respects the greatness and,
the longevity which is part, of it and the fact
that he's forty or, forty one and like this is
the first time we're seeing a little.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
Slip up it's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
HE treats, i, MEAN look i also think he shows,
you know to, be great you have to work. At,
it yeah and you have to make. A choice you
can't be a you can't live. The, Lifestyle Look michael
jordan could live a high roller lifestyle and be great At,
basketball lebron but, Guess what michael was still only great
for a shorter period. Of time he was done.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
By, high thirty he was done and that he.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Was done lebron trained his body and mine to be
able to essentially Last Like. Tom brady and you know
what's funny Is. Like brady, You know brady's also not
beloved Outside Of. New england, he's respected. He's acknowledged but
there's this weird Versus A. Peyton manning who's the more?

(01:14:56):
Lovable guy right Yall Love. PEYTON manning I Want peyton
manning to. Sponsor this, brady was, you Know but brady
was so he seemed to be so obsessed with football
you didn't care about the. OUTSIDE world I think lebron's
mostly the.

Speaker 5 (01:15:10):
Same Way the brady is THE guy i always compare him,
to right just because there is no take tennis out,
of it but the Four major, American, sports like there's
no comp to what these guys do to be, this
great that great at. That age it's it's. Unheard of it's.
Unheard of and like, the way one of THE things
i DO is i loved this kind of like talk
to people About how lebron has got him, like this

(01:15:30):
and the way has explained.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
To me you know that he's mapping out.

Speaker 5 (01:15:33):
Every minute it shows you the discipline that every hour
of every day's. Mapped out so they'll be Filming space
jam and then it's like two twenty and his trainer pop.
A joke he pops out of a trap door for
like his two twenty seven and kinwa right or things,
like that just knowing. Every Hour michael beasley told me
His stories lebron's, longtime friends saying it's like A bleeping
nascar pit stop around him half. The time just these
guys are always, around there, and yeah it's something, about

(01:15:55):
IT but, i agree so the, respects there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
But he's not beloved the SAME way I think.

Speaker 5 (01:15:59):
Kobe, parts again It's a jordan Thing and, Kobe thing
like these are guys who you hear people talk about people, meaning,
fans media but also players talk about in a different Way.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Than lebron and. It's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
This this lebron's.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
LAST year i.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
DON'T know, i mean you know this is it'd obviously
be really good for your book if, it was.

Speaker 5 (01:16:24):
He would try to hitting that. Moving target, MY answers i,
don't KNOW but I genuinely i don't think. He knows
that's my read on.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
IT is i.

Speaker 5 (01:16:29):
DON'T think i think he's sort of he's a free
agent now they. Left it, he sorry he's on. Expiring
contract he is for the first time in. His career
he is on. EXPIRING deal i think he's it seems
to be he's wreckon reckoning with no longer being the
power player.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
That he once was and no longer being in.

Speaker 5 (01:16:44):
Total control he also like there's a lot of things
he wants to a lot of boxes he wants. To
check like most assume he's gonna want a Farewell tour
he also has made clear talking about the player of.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Powerment stuff so he doesn't have a farewell, tour, Now
correct so, that's good have announced it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
This. Year correct that makes me think where it's going
to get one? More year he DOESN'T take Caf, of,
Cleveland right, it, does right because it comes back to
so where is it going.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
To be, it's like if you're doing a, farewell tour
it's gonna Be A lake Lakers.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Or calves. That's it, anyone else.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
That's, it yeah it doesn't even make Sense for. Miami,
anymore right you can't Make a. Miami.

Speaker 5 (01:17:16):
Case, Yeah no and and and he doesn't take. Pay
cuts that's. The part he's gonna have to. Be interesting
it's gonna. Be interesting So, since miami He, joined miami
he took a pay cut to, Join them and since
then we talked about the. Player empowerment he's been very big,
ON like i don't take. Pay cuts we take the.
Max DEAL and i don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
It's for like.

Speaker 5 (01:17:31):
SELFISH reasons i think it's more of representing the player
for us and sort of being, you know union guy
for lack of a. Better term and if you're not
willing to take a pay cut your your options are limited.
Right where, you KNOW if i was, ADVISING him i, might,
say no one's going to call you a scab at
the age of, forty one you take ten million dollars instead, of, Thirty,
right like, that's okay go where.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
You WANT but i don't know what.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
He, WANTS well, I mean cleveland is a fascinating destination
right now because he might be able to win a
title too this farewell if he chose to do that.
NEXT year, i mean this is a team that is,
it is it is in it's the best version Of
The cleveland cavaliers without a Guy Named lebron james on
it as.

Speaker 5 (01:18:09):
It is, FOR sure i thought he should have gone
there like he because he's kind of put out again
some passive aggressive statements, this YEAR and i remember being
like talking to some people IN the nba and just,
be like do what, You want like do you want to,
go home Go to cleveland then, it's fine or you
want to stay do what.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
HE wants, I agree and.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
As, a player you know the Beauty Of lebron and
just to me is why you got to give it
to him as a as, a teammate is that he
he'd understands he knows how to play a role if
that's the best way to win. A, GAME yep i
mean he could be an important role player in oddly
That that cleveland could use.

Speaker 5 (01:18:43):
For sure and THE part i joke is like we talked, about,
it like, you know he's not top five. Player anymore
last year he was second TEAM, o mba which means
he was, top twenty. Top, ten, still like it's still
incredible if, he wanted he won't. Do it we have,
you know most, old guys you get to the point
where they're kind of the bench guy playing fifteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
A game like he could do that for seven more
years if he. Wanted to he's so good and.

Speaker 5 (01:19:02):
So, smart uh and talk about the role, player STUFF
so i mean anything would takehim for next year.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
For, sure, well look the other issue here has To be, brownie,
Yep right and it's and and and the role of
and then his, middle son who, some argue who's a
little bit taller than, his, brother.

Speaker 5 (01:19:19):
Right correct so my Understanding is Bryce was bryce is the.
Other one he was once a. Better prospect it seems
to be Unclear now bronnie's condition. Is, WHY also i
always thought, you know and if you're, writing it, you're,
like oh THAT'S what. I WANT but i always thought
this would be last Year because bronnie's, he's no his
contract is no longer guaranteed after. This year so that's
part of the EQUATION which i find, really interesting and

(01:19:40):
so weally not talked.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
About, MUCH yeah i. DON'T know i don't know if
another team Would.

Speaker 5 (01:19:46):
Take bronnie if the The reason lebron was able to
force that through last time is because he was still
good enough to force, that through you know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
At, this point at this point is at, THE case i,
Don't know well.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
It would any? Of us would any other team Have? Drafted? Smith,
NO no I mean i do think a team would
Have Drafted. BROWNIE james i do actually believe that another
team would HAVE because i think that was always. Another,
rumor hey does a team Who wants lebron and the
for two for like sort of a two year, farewell
tour do They draft brownie as a way to?

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Bait him, right too and Clearly and Clutch or bron's
they just was worried about that because they they They,
forced bronni they would basically turn.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Other teams away from himself and they told them, don't
draft because he was ended up drafting the. Second round
they told other teams do.

Speaker 5 (01:20:31):
Not draft, they said you know some team that heard
stories about teams on asking His Agent, rich Paul would
bronnie played IN The g league and the, answer was
he ain't know if it works WITH the, nba schedule
which was not what they were, really, Implying right that
wasn't the reason the question was asked that or they
have draft telling teams if you, draft him he's Going,
to australia like they really they.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Were forcing it through to make sure that he would
end up With. The lakers what.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
Does lebron want out of this for? His SONS if
i GET if i get critical, at All and I'M
always i don't like TO be i don't like my
parenting to be back, seat DRIVEN so. I don't i'm
hesitant to backseat drive. Another parent, But man i'd like
TO think i wouldn't put that much pressure on, my
kids and he's Put some he's put some serious Pressure.

(01:21:12):
ON BROWN i i feel nothing but Empathy, for BRONNIE
and i know that that, seems ODD but i.

Speaker 5 (01:21:16):
Do no, you know it's, So INTERESTING so i agree
With you so The lebron brownie think is really interesting
because he's said he's been in locker rooms saying things
out loud when he knows reporters, are around, Like oh bronnie,
could play he's better than half these guys IN, the
nba or tweeting out about my drafts, being bad all
these THINGS where i, would say as a, parent too
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Seems awful that seems.

Speaker 5 (01:21:36):
Just bad and then and yet clearly they've done something Right,
because bronnie by, all accounts is a REALLY he's, i
mean he's, well liked, he's respectful he, works hard everyone loves.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Actually really and he's just like, his father pretty high basketball.
Like you he may not have, the abilities but he
knows what he should, be.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
Doing correct so Everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:21:59):
Loves brownie so, the fact WHEN whenever i find myself
saying that seems like, awful, parenting RIGHT whenever i find myself, saying.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
THAT fine i sit. There too, Yeah RIGHT and i.

Speaker 5 (01:22:07):
Kind of, counted saying you know what they raised in
basically on the. Celebrity spotlight they raised a kid and
it seemed to have. Worked OUT so i don't know
if that's luck or they knew what they were doing
so that's kind OF how. I deffer but it's funny
you say That because i've had these same conversations with
people and, with myself, you know internal dialogues about.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
This STUFF and i guess that that's that's going to be.
A factor what what do we Think is middle sun
Is at arizona that he Arizonated to so is? Are
they is he gonna play? THIS year i it was
that game was on last NIGHT and i forgot that
there Was a james. ON there i should have checked.
It out it would have, been good, uh, good good
uh prep, For this but is he going?

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
To play, They don't.

Speaker 5 (01:22:44):
They don't they don't Know from bryce's Perspective. And lebron
lebron a media day, was asked.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
You know you're gonna wait? For HIM and i forget
exact well it was, basically no, You know i'm not waiting.
For him you know we're not going to get to.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
That point so there's a World where Luca and lebron
could be a fascinating version sort of a twenty first
century Version of Kareem, and magic sort of one guy
at the in the sunset of, his career one guy
getting ready for his. Peak powers but WHY do i

(01:23:14):
get the sense that there's just no chemistry between.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
These two so the funny, part, is well they haven't
played a. Lot together that's the. Short answer Lebron, loves
Luca like luca is one of. These guys first, of
ALL all nba players. Respect him he's sort of lebron
like in terms of his, you know the chess master moving.
Pieces around Years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Lebron had to. Play defense lebron plays.

Speaker 5 (01:23:34):
For sure, for sure but so years ago lebronch was
going to build out or was building out His Own
Jordan like lebron Line, for Nike and luca was one
of the guys he targeted and that was. Way, before,
So like luca's always been a guy, he likes and
he talks to People around lebron now and, they, Say
no Lebron. Loves Luca the lakers he might feel, differently, About,
Right so LIKE the i think anything you're seeing is

(01:23:54):
if you see a passive aggressive or you maybe see
a Clip of lebron watch a game and maybe not
being Mister. RAW raga i think that's More about lakers
organizational and the fact that they haven't given him that
they didn't offer him a contract extension last summer as
opposed to.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Any issues With the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
Encore guys but in fairness To, the lakers, my GOD
what i mean they CAN'T keep i, WOULD argue, I
mean I think and this is the real question is
when you ask, basketball people Has keeping lebron around actually,
you know certainly pre Trade. Of, luca Look the luca
trade falls into, their lap which is you, know why

(01:24:29):
there's why our Friend mister simmons wants to have a.
Conspiracy theory but somehow this. Helps them it is amazing
how Often the Celtics and lakers end up with, of course,
oh boy just when they need a player to, keep
it of course their, legacy going they find. It right
but it. It doesn't it doesn't seem as if That

(01:24:52):
keeping lebron has actually been good For the lakers for
the rest of. This decade this isn't the right way
to prepare for A Post. Lebron, LAKERS no i agree.

Speaker 5 (01:25:02):
WITH you i don't think. They're wrong and the most
the interesting part is they were. Doing this they were
moving On.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Before lucas so if you, look back if you're, you
Know the LAKERS Hired jj red to be the head
coach before, Last year.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
There's always been a question that Was not lebron's. First,
choice correct it was.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
It was it Wasn't that lebron was Out of it
wasn't necessarily his. First choice like he.

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
They floated that they had floated they want some, other
guys and everyone Assumed because LEBRON And jj redick were
hosting a, podcast together because, not really since it's twenty,
twenty five why wouldn't that be?

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
The case of course.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
That's what by, The Way rich paul apparently is going
to have a Podcast, with simmons right and in.

Speaker 5 (01:25:38):
That world so if you, want to if anyone who
wants to do a fun, google now then You Know,
rich paul's, you know going to be Working With. Bill
simmons look Up What rich paul Set About bill simmons
in an Interview With isaac Channer Into, new yorker and
that'll be A.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
Fun Google to, simmons credit he kind of alluded, to
it but he in his podcast earlier, this week but,
he said, He, goes yeah when we had the, first
meeting it wasn't clear whether there's. This Question there's Rich,
like Bill there's Bill like rich, Get, Right Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:26:05):
So amazon i'll say It's About rich paul's this. IS
separate I Like. RICH paul i find like he is
a professionals.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Wrong word he just. Gets it he's not sensitive like.
He can.

Speaker 5 (01:26:14):
He can he's okay if you, criticize him and then
you can talk, about it talking out and he's cool.
With it, you know sometimes people in the sports world
are uber sensitive, about things and he is not one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
Of them but we were saying TO The, jj Redick
the LAKERS hire jj reg to be their.

Speaker 5 (01:26:27):
Head coach and you listen to that, press conference it's
hilarious because they're talking like They're The Oklaho. City thunder
they're talking about it's a. New world we went into.
Player development they talk about they're going to make a player,
development APP which i don't know whatever happened. To that,
you know there's new salary. Cap structures we don't do.
Superstars anymore luca then falls to the lap and they.
Change everything but they were moving On from lebron before.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
Last year.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
Let's do two more items here BEFORE before i let.
You go One Is magic johnson's relationship With, the lakers?
Is it is there? One anymore or, you know after
the debacle of his role has sort of head of.
Basketball operations and now that he's, YOU know i see
him In most commanders games now hanging out with is

(01:27:12):
a part owner of. That team he's a part owner.
Of that he was all Over, the dodgers like, of
course it seems like he always knew where the.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
Camera was there's, a camera there's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
A Camera there's magic finding his way.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Into.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
It right what's the Relationship Between magic Lebron and magic And?

Speaker 5 (01:27:28):
The, lakers okay so the most interesting part is That
the lakers just sold Recently To, mark walter who Owns.
The Dodgers So, MAGIC johnson i guess is it's it's
actually interesting question because people, don't know and people are
AROUND the nba are. Really Curious so magic. It ended
the background is Him And genie boss were basically like brother,
and sister. So close she brings him in for a

(01:27:49):
year to run or two years, he's there and, it
ends like, you, said horribly just a. Flame out it's embarrassing,
to her embarrassing to. The franchise and then he GOES
on tv and He Accuses, rob polenka general manager who's
still the, general manager of. Backstabbing him he says that
that's Not even he's not like, sources say he's saying
that the Step n Smith that rapulinka backstabby on. First,
Take Right so ropolink is, still there he's still the, general,

(01:28:12):
Manager right he's. Still there lebron was not thrilled with
how the. Magic stuff And then lebron also they him
and his group were. Really accommodating maybe it's the, wrong
word like magic after They saw lebron was.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
VERY big, i mean wasn't magic credited With recruiting lebron and.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
So this is to. Be credited this IS when i say.
They're accommodating they were very Accommodating, to magic telling, the
setting the narrative, Going On jimmy.

Speaker 5 (01:28:37):
Kimmell talking about how He's outside lebron's house at midnight.
Or whatever and, that was as someone explained, TO me
I think i put this in, the Book like lebron
was going There whether magic was there. Or not but
they were okay To let magic. Do that sot they.
Do that And, then magic besides being bad at, the
job just to leave in this ridiculous way of announcing
in a press conference without telling anyone he's leaving and
just basically walking out.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
The door.

Speaker 5 (01:28:57):
It's EMBARRASSING so i don't think the relationship between Him
and lebron IS like i think Everyone respects magic and what.
HE was i wouldn't say that's particularly Close the lake
and Him And genie bus their relationship is, still there
but it's not what it. Once was but again repeating
what it looks Like when magic's partner now BUYS the
uh Buys the lakers and what, that MEANS it's i
can tell you people asking me that QUESTION and i, Don't, know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
Well Are the buses keeping a piece of.

Speaker 5 (01:29:22):
The team So the genie is, fifteen percent which is
the minimum amount required to still be officially, the governor.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
And she's the governor the governor of.

Speaker 4 (01:29:31):
The.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
Rep.

Speaker 2 (01:29:32):
Yeah correct that could.

Speaker 5 (01:29:33):
Always change and we've seen other examples in like where
we've told, You Know mark cuban sold the team and
said he was going to be Running in it wasn't.
The case this seems to be more locked in, than
that but they could change.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Any, minute, politics Yes and Lebron has. It's funny, IT'S
like i actually don't think he's weighed in that often
in politics COMPARED to i could argue compared to even Shack.
At magic Shock and magic show up, on events they.
Do stuff when they did Stuff, for obama, You, know

(01:30:06):
lebron it was always More the obama people Wanted, more
Lebron and lebron was, you know Felt Like michael jordan
in nineteen ninety when he refused To Endorse harvey gant
In The Jesse helm senate Race Of. North carolina he
never actually said, the Quote well republicans by but, you
know it's always been the lie, know, Shocker right but

(01:30:27):
the legend of that quote sits, out THERE and i
always got a Sense, that lebron at least there was
always a piece of him that, heard that and he
would he certainly made, you know he did not want
to seem like he, was unsupportive particularly of the Concerns Of,
african americans so he never wanted to be seen as not.
Supportive there but HE never I never i've never thought

(01:30:48):
of him as as active in politics as the reputation
that is out there in the right in particular is that.
HE is i think that's a.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
Great way to.

Speaker 5 (01:30:57):
Put IT and i think the way YOU put i
think what you just said the ending, part, there right
how he gets framed by the right and sort of
in today's world where you just you know you're good.
Or bad everything's by it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
Doesn't matter it's sort of what the different we we
live in these, different ecosystems and the right has decided he,
politicizes everything and, you're, like really, because correct he really
doesn't when you when, YOU look, i mean, you know he.
Does not he does not get, Actively involved he doesn't write,
big checks he doesn't show UP in. Tv Ads magic
johnson does all of those things right and.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
Always, has Yeah, NO lebron i mean even the first ones.
He did, it's interesting so he never did Anything until
obama two thousand.

Speaker 5 (01:31:35):
AND eight i think It WAS jay z was at
a thing that Basically brought, lebron In brought lebron, with
right it, was, correct correct you'll Member The. Trayvon martin
he had a statement with. The heat but the interesting
it was it, Wasn't him it was, the whole all,
the teammates the who. Entire team he's with, the group hooded.
Sweatshirt on and then there Was another.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
I'm, gonna forget Might Been.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
ERIC garner i.

Speaker 5 (01:31:53):
Don't know Maybe In. NEW york i can't breathe and
he wasn't sure if he was going to DO a.
T shirt he was sort of in and out in twenty.
Twenty two things what twenty Sixteen with trump seemed to
ignite him a. LITTLE bit, i mean is the famous you,
bum tweet which is pretty Funny because.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
Trump went, after him and, of correct, you know, You,
know lebron. It's funny he is just like us in
that he lets social media get under his.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
Skin, everyone so, for sure one hundred percent he's very
much in on.

Speaker 5 (01:32:16):
Social media and then the most involved he got was
twenty twenty in, the bubble WHICH again i mean that's
we'll look back in that fifty years from now and
just a million everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
Did This Was. George floyd this was sort. Of right
it's like people getting involved in the civil rights movement in.
The sixties it just wasn't like everybody was getting involved
on and it.

Speaker 5 (01:32:32):
WASN'T specific i, mean again they were very specific what.
They did him and, his guy he had, His Guy,
Adam mendelssohn Who's Who's donold Schwarzenegger's communications guy's his, Communications guy,
And well lebron is his group are really Good at
they're great at finding experts what they want, to do
and then we find the experts. Execute it so they
get all these people from the. Political field i'm gonna.
Forget there you WOULD if i knew told you, the
names you would know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
All, them NO but i Knew about mendelssohn and a. Few,
others no he's. He's careful he doesn't, do stuff but
whether it's business or politics, or culture he does does
seem to be calculating. And careful and.

Speaker 5 (01:33:04):
They're right it wasn't about there was. Not voting it
was there. Very specific it wasn't about a. Specific candidate
it wasn't about Vote For. Joe biden it was let's
mobilize and let's vote and make sure we can.

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
Vote this That's an.

Speaker 5 (01:33:14):
American right there's, nothing political, which whatever but there's nothing
political about getting out. To vote and that was what
the how they. Pushed IT so i and, since, then
honestly it's like, you said he might. Have endorsed he
might Have endorsed biden HIS last i don't remember what.

Speaker 1 (01:33:27):
He Did and i'm sure He. Endorsed commel i'm not saying.
HE didn't, i mean, my GOODNESS. The nba, YOU know
i always. Say this, you KNOW the nfl is the
truly the only equally divided, fan base and it really Looks.
Like america, It, is yes it is fifty. TO fifty nba,
leans left golf, lean's right baseball, leans right hockey, leans
right like, you know, you know show me your fan
Base and i'll show you which way they, lean exactly,

(01:33:48):
you know and, you know so there certainly is an
Assumption of, lebron's Politics but i've always thought he was
put it. This way he wasn't nearly as front Facing
as kareem was in.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
His, heyday no not, even close not. Even close and
the only, THING is i would say so there was
one point around twenty twenty where it seemed like he
was thinking he wanted to maybe position himself as that
would get that where he has like.

Speaker 5 (01:34:12):
He's walking Out WITH malcolm x books, and again but
this is twenty twenty and LIKE he's, i mean twenty
twenty was just we could throw it out the window
in terms of what people were doing and.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
How people are.

Speaker 5 (01:34:20):
Approaching things but he did seem to sort of be
sort of be dabbling in some of. THAT stuff i think,
HE rightfully i don't think that's, his SPECIALTY and i
think he's been smart to sort of pull back on
that a. Little bit so that's the ONLY thing i.
Would say but the other part is The lawer ingram
shut Up in. Dribble right that was the, other thing
which was again we talked about coded and not, even,
coded right and now that across, the line and that

(01:34:42):
also ignited and that sort of set him off in a.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
Way, too no It's always i've always Thought ro lebron
was a reactive.

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
Political person it's a great way to put it. IN person,
i like that's a great way to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Put, it, yeah yeah well let me get you out
of here. On this in, Twenty years lebron is going
to be. We, know look we can have the. GOAT
converse i actually somebody who Thinks That magic johnson should
be in the in a three way conversation With with Jordan.
And lebron and my, argument is you Know what Jordan
and lebron. Didn't do they didn't win a title in their.

(01:35:11):
First year they didn't take a team that didn't make
the playoffs and. Win IT and i. Love it, and
oh by, the way if NOT, for Hiv does magic
have six Rings and michael? Has five and what's the
conversation right like, WE could, I could i could. Have
That so i'm Always and i've Always thought lebron is
if you if you went to a lab and you,
and you your two Ingredients Were magic Johnson And, michael

(01:35:32):
jordan you Would get Lebron, Right like lebron is the
best of both. Of them so legacy stuff aside that
the six titles versus, ten finals that's, you know that's
always going to be the marker that one person makes
one argument to Say, it's lebron another person makes The Argument.
Sage jordan but the one place he has a chance
To surpass Michael and magic is in being a front

(01:35:57):
office guy and A right magic was terrible as, a
coach terrible AS, A gm michael terrible AS, a gm
terrible as. An owner we have first had experience Here
in washington and we've watched the debacle That. Is charlotte
is That what. Lebron is there a competitiveness in him
that he sees an opportunity that he gets to have

(01:36:19):
a legacy that that that nobody else OF the nba
all time greats. Have had he can also be as
successful on the business, side too that's a.

Speaker 5 (01:36:26):
GREAT question i don't know if he's Comparing. TO jordan
i do think that's something he, cares. ABOUT right i
do think being remembered in terms of as. A success,
i mean we see he's a billion, dollar athlete like
he's already, been there and, you know he's sort of approached.
The business he's been one of these guys who's been
into like we get equity. And companies that's going way
back and ready since, you know since he, was twenty which.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
Was insane if you think.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
Of all The mistakes magic made, early on, he's, correct,
right yeah HE just i.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
Mean this the THE the iq just it's through, the
charts off. THE charts I do i think the legacy
he is gonna be maybe different. THE ownerships i think.

Speaker 5 (01:37:03):
The legacy is going to be an all time great
who was different than. Everyone, else right in terms of
being remembered as between, the longevity the player, empowerment stuff
that's gonna be a huge part. Of it i'm, LIKE
you i joke that there's like forty top, ten, players
right not top, of three but like you start naming top,
ten guys and You named Jerry and Magic and Kareem
and shack and you get to thirty five, of, Them

(01:37:23):
right so it's kind of LIKE he's i don't know
how to discern between any.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
Of, them, yeah, like well look, at baseball how do
you have the show hate Conversation versus may's and and,
you know we all had the official line back in
the Day of mays and And And ruth and now, you're,
like well what do we do With? Show hay, you,
know right totally changes, that, Conversation right so.

Speaker 5 (01:37:43):
The ownership part is, interesting too because it also maybe
and This is i'm thinking, about it like if it,
went poorly it WOULD really i think it would, hurt
him maybe more than It hurt Jordan and magic. As
well and that's.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Also, interesting, interesting huh.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
Just because The expects it's because the expectations bar is.

Speaker 5 (01:38:01):
So, high yeah and almost, like again talk to some
of this stuff where we talk about and for, whatever
reason he's not the love necessarily the, same way it's
like you're starting at.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
A low it's like you're starting at.

Speaker 5 (01:38:10):
A five instead of, a, ten right and it cannock,
you lower, you know you have it's almost like more
to lose, or whatever as Opposed. TO jordan i Mean
the jordan thinks wild nobody cares what he did at any point,
he can like he SPEAKS On nbc now for three
minutes and people think it's the greatest interview of.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
All, Time RIGHT it's i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
GET it, I mean i Don't find jordan's, YOU know
I find jordan's criticism of of players not playing every
game to be totally naive of what the game. Is today,
Of course like it's just like it's just he feels
like a guy that doesn't even watch THE current nba
if this is what.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
He, thinks no it was.

Speaker 5 (01:38:44):
So, predictable also like, you Knew like jordan on, load
management they were like they kept, hyping THAT and i
could TELL you i was, gonna say then we knew
wearing the, same right he's wearing the. Same suit it
seems like they talked to him once for like twenty
five minutes and.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Chopping exactly what. They, did, yeah right.

Speaker 2 (01:38:57):
And everyone but people are eating. It UP so i
Want the jordan thing is the WHOLE sid i, don't
know it's like this aura, around.

Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
Now There's A. GRETA garbo, i mean not to go.
BACK way i mean it's a super, old, reference right
but that was the. Old joke she stopped talking to.
The press so anytime you heard a Quote of greta
gar oh, my god we've heard from it's Like with
jordan's weirdly he, never talks so whenever, you Know it's by,
the way this is a good reminder if you're super
famous withholding your comments on things and then make whatever

(01:39:24):
you say down the road.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
More.

Speaker 5 (01:39:25):
Interesting correct, So yeah so IT'S just i don't know
how anyone competes THE joy.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
I GET that's i guess That's what. I'M saying i
don't know how you compete, with, That right IT just i,
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
All right you doing a, book tour we were in
the midst, of it in the midst, of, it, yes yeah?
Is it how much of it? Is physical how much
of it is? Most?

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
Virtual yeah most? Is virtual and you say this year's
year of twenty. Twenty five you, know, RIGHT well i
know you you.

Speaker 1 (01:39:54):
What kind of reception are you getting from lebron world
and what kind of reception are You from?

Speaker 5 (01:39:58):
Laker world So the, LAKE world, i mean it's a.
Can Open the lakers threatened to sue me before this book,
Came out so that was that was fun before the
book came out over what not checking, the well.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
They hired, this guy but they they They Hired.

Speaker 5 (01:40:11):
Marty singer who was a famous defamation lawyer before they
got the, fact check so they would claim it's a,
fact check but they doesn't. Line up, so yeah so that.
Was good So the laker world is.

Speaker 1 (01:40:21):
There's nothing that gives a book more promotion Than some
yahoo threatening to. SUE IT i, i AGREE and i
JOKE that i should thank them for, the marketing, YOU
know i KIND of i was Gonna Send geny bussey thank,
you note, you know, And Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:40:33):
Lebron world they're fine. With it, it's fine, You Know laker.
World's Interesting so i'll get a quick it's. Been interesting
lakers fans seem less interested in learning behind the scenes of.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
Their fans the books, doing fine, it's not, but like
it's been interesting To hear lakers fans not interested in
LEARNING about i wrote a book On. The sixers sixers.

Speaker 5 (01:40:51):
Fans want to hear every single thing that's happening in
the front office right wrote process and that why things
might not. Go well laker fans get, very defensive which
is it's just. Interesting, SOCIOLOGICALLY well i.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
Think if You're a, laker, fan frankly you always know
that it always. Works out THAT'S what.

Speaker 2 (01:41:07):
I think that's what.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
IT is, I mean, i'm sorry, you're, like wow they
picked they picked eighth And Got. Kobe bryant, YOU'RE like,
I mean i'll never. Forget that, you're, like oh What
Does jerry west know? About this like the minute they drafted,
The guy.

Speaker 2 (01:41:19):
You're, Like Oh jerry west must know something that none
of us.

Speaker 1 (01:41:22):
Know Yet joe bryant's kid must be, that good, you know,
of course, all right and he gets? Him?

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Eight?

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
Right seven what? Is it seven teams passed Up.

Speaker 5 (01:41:29):
On kobe, it's wild it's uh and then that's, gonna
yeah it's.

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
It's wild. It's, Wild YEAH so, i, figure right.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
It always works out For. The lakers they always, get
shocked they even if they don't get the guy the, first, time, right, Yep,
exactly no not like We're beloved nicks who never get.
That guy And yet knicks fans always think they're going.

Speaker 2 (01:41:48):
To get that. Guy coming lebron. Is coming they never come.

Speaker 5 (01:41:53):
For sure, for sure And, like lakers, You know luca
fell into the lap. Last year now they're set for.
Ten years, you, know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
So, all right why haven't you done the why CAN'T
the nixt? Win book.

Speaker 5 (01:42:03):
I've been, Told, that uh people like, Positive books That's
what i've.

Speaker 2 (01:42:07):
Been told, that's uh. That's interesting, we're right you've got
to get, people, hope right so the right, You Know
jim dolan is a kind, of buffoon is not Gonna, the.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
Knicks though it is amazing the amount of devotion they
have for a franchise that really is one of the
most failing franchises in the history OF. The nba.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
It's wild it's kind. Of it it's like special, about it,
you know it's it's it's, it's yeah it's like a
it's they hate they hate, the ownership they love, the
team but they know there's a fatalism.

Speaker 5 (01:42:39):
To it is a mix of fatalism, and hope which is. Really,
strange yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
It's, WILD no, i mean, it's funny, you know it's,
always supposedly, You know knicks fans Are also yankees Fans and, giants,
fans supposedly While the nets fans are more likely To
be jets Fans and. Mets fans and, to Me the
knick's history feels more Like the Jets and.

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
Mets than it does a hundred per one. Hundred percent
it lines up with that for one. Hundred, Percent, anyway
well this.

Speaker 1 (01:43:05):
Was great You think lebron would ever run? For? Office oh.

Speaker 5 (01:43:09):
Great question i've not been. Asked That, UH no i don't.
Think so i'm gonna, say no. That's, INTERESTING no i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:43:15):
Think so do you think he wants to be a
kingmaker literally in the world? Of politics? Does he does?
He do because That's what arnold would do for a
while until he finally got dragged. In that, You know
arnold is an interesting model for how you can be,
a celebrity dabble in politics and then maybe do it
for a small period of time but still keep. YOUR celebrity,

(01:43:36):
I mean arnold's been the best at that compared to
the celebrities. TURNED politicians i.

Speaker 5 (01:43:42):
Think we're going To, SEE lebron i. THINK almost I
Think magic johnson is almost. The closer the come more
of the comp in terms of, the business the, business
stuff and we're seeing a little of the media.

Speaker 2 (01:43:53):
AND pie, i mean He's on DraftKings, ads NOW which
i don't. Really UNDERSTAND but.

Speaker 1 (01:43:56):
I, Don't either BUT can i just, tell, you Man
The Kevin harry lebron ads are. REALLY good i mean
They humanize lebron in a way that nobody, else does.

Speaker 5 (01:44:06):
Which might be, the, point right BUT just i think
it seems like, to me even That weird hennis which
we died To the hennessy ad with the fake, decision
thing which was, not great it seems to me we're
we're reinvesting in in brands and, you know business side
of things in an.

Speaker 2 (01:44:21):
Interesting way so THAT'S what i would guess we're headed
in terms of the post.

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
Playing Career does lebron write his OWN book i or
does he instead do a.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
BIG documentary i was going to say this is again it,
depresses me but it's where we are these DAYS that,
i mean he's got cameras following him, around already they'll
do they already, have that like they'll do their version
Of The last. Dance again we'll compare It. To jordan
it's gonna be. A documentary, UH yeah i hope we
get a book like again, the guy, the writer reader
or me wants, but uh you know again twenty. Twenty five, so.

Speaker 1 (01:44:52):
Yeah but then there's, some things, you know sometimes you
don't want a book written until after the. PERSON dies
i hate to put it, those ways but it's, you
know well people around them tell you the real truth
while the person, is stolen.

Speaker 5 (01:45:06):
Oh for sure from another in terms of someone doing
the biography, on, Him, correct yeah in terms of him
doing his, own, one, YEAH NO i i.

Speaker 2 (01:45:14):
He doesn't participate in any long form.

Speaker 5 (01:45:16):
Interviews now like they don't do it basically for the,
most part because it's why would you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:20):
Do, THAT well i don't call him a, white Whale
but I've probably i've, you know gotten close to striking
Up A relationshipip maverick a number of times in order
to try To get lebron and it's it's it's it's
even in the. You know and he certainly at some
point suddenly didn't want to be interviewed by a, political
journalist right like that just that was not the image.

Speaker 5 (01:45:40):
They, Wanted, yeah SO like, i said, THEY have i
think We'll see netflix documentaries and things.

Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
Like, that yeah this. WAS great i. Appreciate it. Congrats
around this was this was terrific, AND uh i can't
wait to.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Finish it thank you. So much it's a lot. OF
fun i.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
Love this.

Speaker 2 (01:45:55):
It's great, Thank, you, Chuck.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
Excellent well good luck with it and if, nothing else We're.
In november you don't know what to GET your nba
fan in. Your life there you go get them the
book and get them a hard copy. Of, it anyway
did you do your own audio?

Speaker 2 (01:46:10):
THIS time i. DID not i did my, last one
and not to sound spoil it was the it's, the
wife were doing your?

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
Own audio and a book. Is painful it's. SO hard
i think it's.

Speaker 5 (01:46:19):
Really hard it's And then i'm catching typos and it's
making me angry because.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
You're reading THAT'S what i hated. About it it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
Terrific exercise it. Really frees but you sit there and,
you're going oh, my god how many TIMES did i use?
This phrase oh? My god we got to? Fix it
and then they tell you it's too late. To fix,
too late, really.

Speaker 5 (01:46:35):
Torture right it'd be, great, if though, you know if you,
weren't where if writers weren't all the standing going up against,
the deadline if you gave, yourself, like okay i'll do.
The audiobook i'll read it out aloud NOW because i
have a two, weeks extra and so that's obviously never.
The case so it's aside from the actual torture of
reading it over, and over like it's your, torture yourself
seeing mistakes and bad phrases and just you walk out
there and, be, like oh this.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
Is awful what? Is this, so, yeah no not. This,
TIME well i hope.

Speaker 1 (01:46:58):
You enjoyed my guest is you're going to hear people
use nuggets of, your book Like during lakers games by
Guys Like mike Breen, and tarrico who probably are all
devouring it as. We speak so that'll be a lot
of fun, FOR you.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
I hope So, thanks jacket.

Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
My friend it's good to.

Speaker 6 (01:47:15):
Meet You, all right it is Podcast time, machine time
AND as, I teased i'm going to do some what
ifs that you could argue are sort of.

Speaker 1 (01:47:34):
Going back at a time machine but impacting what happened
and then coming back, and, seeing hey what happened when
You gave biff the gamble the sports almanac and he
could go back in time and gamble on all the. Actual,
Outcomes right so we'll be doing, you know in some
ways that is the distortion Of Our todd Cash time.
Eschine SEGMENT but i am in straightforward mode and as,

(01:47:57):
you know just to give you sort of the parameters
OF what. I use it is a there is something
taking place this coming week, in history a milestone. That
happened in, this Case it's december, thirty first nineteen, fifty
four is where we're going back in our podcast. Time
machine so that is and it is something that came to,

(01:48:18):
an End and i'm going to use it to tell
the story of what, we are which is a very
reluctant nation. Of immigrants let. Me explain december, thirty first nineteen,
Fifty Four ellis island quietly closed its doors to become simply.
A museum there was, no ceremony there was, no speech

(01:48:40):
there was no national moment, of reflection which is actually
fitting because at, The Time ellis island didn't Close because
america stopped being a nation. Of immigrants it closed because
the immigration system That Built ellis island no. Longer existed
i'm going to get, to that and that quiet ending
gives us a perfect entry point into a much, bigger
question and it's one we have been arguing about since

(01:49:01):
the founding of. This Country is america a nation? Of
immigrants and if, we are which factually, we are have
we always been actually a reluctant nation, of immigrants which
is The case i'm going to make with this. Time
machine so, it, answered honestly we do need to strip
away the nostalgia and we need to look at what
the twentieth century actually did when it came to immigration

(01:49:25):
Into The. United, states first we're going to talk about
the myth and the Reality. Of alisheim at the turn
of the, twentieth century immigration In The united states, was
massive it, was chaotic and it was. Largely Unrestricted allis
island processed millions, of people sometimes as many as twelve
thousand people, a day and most were arriving by Steamship.
From europe that was the primary way we got immigrants into,

(01:49:48):
this country and it is also the version of immigration
That we americans love. To romanticize but, even that there
was anxiety built into the immigration system at. That time
newspapers in, that time and if you Go To elis
island as, a museum you will. See this as this,
was happening we talk about it As Amazing, elis island

(01:50:11):
and in fact it's a badge of honor if you
had a relative Come Through. Ellis, Island right but at,
the time this is what newspapers were. Warning about, crime,
disease anarchists, job competition. Cultural change in, Other words america
has never experienced an immigration surge without fear attached. To

(01:50:33):
it and this has been true arguably since the, very
beginning but certainly it was also all throughout the, twentieth
century and by the, nineteen twenties this fear got turned
into policy that brings us to the, quota system which
Actually governed america's immigration system for basically half of the.
Twentieth century the modern immigration debate really begins with this

(01:50:55):
decision to restrict entrees. Via Quota The immigration act of nineteen,
twenty four which was also known As The Johnson, reid
act created what was a national origins quota system that
fundamentally reshaped who could come To The. United states and
this decision sort of embedded a form of racism that
people now look back on nostalgically, and, think Well if

(01:51:16):
america was, for it it couldn't have. Been Racist but
i'll get. To that but here's What This immigration. Act
did one it severely limited immigration from Southern And. Eastern
europe as Somebody whose jewish relatives Came From, eastern europe
let me just say that a Lot of jews saw
that at the time as Essentially preventing jews from coming

(01:51:38):
Into The. United states but if you just made it
about a certain Region, of europe it didn't look like
some sort of restriction based. On religion the nineteen twenty
four law favored northern And, western europe and it virtually
excluded immigrants coming In from Asia. And africa well what did?
It do immigration dropped by more than, Eighty percent and

(01:52:03):
this is actually what Essentially Ended, ellis island even though
thirty years later they finally shut. Their doors because after nineteen,
twenty four most immigrants had to be approved. Before arriving
it used to be you got processed once you. Got
here then in the after nineteen, twenty four you had
to get approval before you. Could come ship based mass

(01:52:24):
migration completely collapsed because of this change, in Law And
ellis island never really operated again as a true gateway
after nineteen, Twenty four and, in fact by The Time
ellis Island closes december, thirty first nineteen, fifty four it's
no longer a symbol. Of openness it's simply a relic
of A system america had already, had abandoned which brings
us to the next turning point in the immigration debate

(01:52:46):
nineteen sixty five and what lawmakers thought they were doing
versus what ended. Up happening and this arguably is the
most consequential legislation that was enacted and arguably still not.
Fixed Sense the Immigration And nationality act of nineteen sixty
five is easily one of the most misunderstood Laws in

(01:53:07):
american history because it did not come due to a
sudden embrace of. Mass immigration it actually came out of
a civil, rights argument and it Was A cold war
inspired a civil. Rights, ARGUMENT yeah i have one of
the one of my thesis in sort of why we

(01:53:28):
had less polarization During The, Cold war and, in fact
one of my major THESIS is i don't think we
Get The Civil RIGHTS act a sixty five Without The.
Cold war that our fight With, the soviets who we
are having a propaganda war about democracy. And freedom how
could we be glamorizing democracy without giving freedom To every

(01:53:51):
american that lived in. This country so there Was The
cold war politics sort of HOW bring i think both
sides together? On THIS and i wonder Without The cold
war do we Get The Civil. Rights sact i'll save
that for another. What if but by the, early sixties
the national origins quota system was really embarrassing For The

(01:54:12):
united states internationally because it was. Explicitly discriminatory we picked
and chose what ethnic origins we wanted in which ones.
We didn't we contradicted what was the civil rights movement
at home at, that moment and WE undermined us. Credibility
abroad and, in fact it was standing At the Statue
of liberty That Then PRESIDENT. Lyndon b johnson said the

(01:54:35):
system violated quote the basic Principle of. American democracy so
he was making a moral case. On immigration but here's
the part. We forgot the law was sold To the
american public as being very modest and. Non transformational this
wasn't going to have a. Huge impact supporters went out
of their way to reassure skeptics in. That moment they argued,

(01:54:56):
the following this would not dramatically, Increase immigration this would
not change the ethnic composition of, the country and this was,
about fairness. Not volume, in Fact Then Senator ted kennedy
famously said the bill would not quote flood our cities
or quote upset the ethnic mix of. Our society and,
many critics including labor unions weren't focused on race. At
all they worried about, job competition, wage pressure and whether

(01:55:20):
the country could absorb. More people those concerns. Were minimized
they were sort of glossed over and attributed frankly, to
oh you're, being racist you're. Being xenophobic you're not. Seeing
it so Here's what. Congress built the structure of the
law mattered more than the speeches that. Were given so

(01:55:40):
the law abolished the national. Origins quotas it prioritized, family
reunification which was a huge aspect. To this it created
limited employment, based visas so no one fully modeled what
all of that would mean, over time and once one
family member entered, legal life then others. Could follow it

(01:56:02):
was called, chain migration and it was never the intent of,
the law but it ended up being. A mechanism the
result wasn't, immediate chaos but it was steady and. Sustained
growth and the shift and where immigrants came from, also
changed which brings us to the next, unresolved chapter and
that was the nineteen eighties amnesty enforcement in the deal that.

(01:56:22):
Didn't hold so by the, late seventies growing Up, in
miami this was my sort of first memory of, policy
debates and it was All Over central American and, cuban
IMMIGRANTS so i had a front row seat. To this
so by the late seventies and, early eighties a reality
had become impossible. To ignore millions of people were already

(01:56:43):
living and working In The united, states illegally and the
system had no. Credible answer There wasn't this wasn't. New
migration it was simply. Accumulated migration and agriculture relied on
it and there was no enforcement. Against it construction relied on,
it again no enforcement. Against it restaurants relied, on, it
again no enforcement.

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
Against it and both parties.

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
Knew it and it leads To The immigration Reform And
control act Signed By ronald reagan in nineteen. Eighty Six
The mizzoli act some people know it As, the deal
had three, Parts legalization so basically it gave amnesty to
about three million. Undocumented immigrants they got legal. Status automatically
number two was. Employer sanctions employers were supposed to be

(01:57:25):
punished for hiring. Undocumented workers nineteen. Eighty, six yeah we
can't even get anybody to use e, ferify today and
we didn't even have that system in place in nineteen,
eighty six, and then of course there was the promise
of more. Border enforcement this was a promise that this
would be a one. Time resent reagan even framed it,
pretty optimistically consistent with. His worldview it was a. Humane

(01:57:46):
solution so here's why. It failed and this is, the
history the lesson history keeps teaching us on. This issue the,
legalization worked enforcement did not employer sanctions were very, weakly
enforced if. At all demand for labor never, did change
and the legal pathways never, did expand so.

Speaker 2 (01:58:05):
Then all the.

Speaker 1 (01:58:05):
Incentives remained chain migration essentially was the best, way Through
and congress. Moved on they left the system permanently unfinished
because our politics were too complicated on this and there
was no clean left. Right argument there were coalitions in
different ways that sort.

Speaker 2 (01:58:24):
Of really.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
Made this impossible for one party to be the party
in one way or. THE other, i Mean In south
florida You had republicans standing up for migrants and undocumented
immigrants in ways that you.

Speaker 2 (01:58:37):
Didn't have in other parts in.

Speaker 1 (01:58:38):
The country but then In the midwest you had. Conservative
farmers you needed. Labor anyway, you know many, of you
if you're listening to, this podcast you know. That story
but after, eighty six arguably this is where our modern
immigration politics. Are born legalization without, durbal enforcement enforcement without,
legal reform and a growing population living. In limbo this

(01:59:00):
is where the current era fits Into all this, historical
contest of, course matters which IS why i wanted to lay.
THIS out i thought this would be a good pretext
to sort, of explain, you know constantly the number one
Question that i'm asking is how did we? Get here
it's usually a, follow up whether it's on campaign, finance
reform it could be a follow up, on democracy follow
up on, for policy follow up on, character politics follow

(01:59:22):
up on, the media but question remains, the same how
did we? Get, here well, on immigration this is my
best way of trying to explain how did we? GET
here i don't Know if i've got a. Way OUT if,
i Did maybe i'd be running. For office but this
is it's important to understand the context Because the trump
administration didn't invent, immigration restriction but what they did do

(01:59:45):
is rejected the optimism of the nineteen sixty, five reforms
rejected the compromise language of the nineteen eighty, six reforms
and lean heavily, into enforcement, de terrence. And symbolism so
what was new wasn't. Really restriction it. Was rhetoric it was,
the visibility the willingness to make immigration the central cultural. Dividing,

(02:00:06):
line historically this isn't. A rupture it's actually simply a.
Pendulum swing it's a return to An older. American instinct
but it's one of the uglier Chapters. Of america it's
not the. Ugliest chapter we know what that, one is
but it's one of the, uglier ones and we're still
dealing with the fallout, from it which leads me to ask,

(02:00:27):
this question are we really a nation? Of immigrants so
let's say answer the question as honestly as. We, can yes.
We are we are a nation, of Immigrants and america
is still more of an idea than it is. An
ethnicity but.

Speaker 2 (02:00:38):
History suggests something a bit.

Speaker 1 (02:00:40):
More precise we are a nation, of immigrants but we're
a reluctant nation. Of immigrants we celebrate immigration in retrospect
once the simulation happens and once the, fear fades but
in real time, anxiety dominates, restriction follows and the half.
Finished Reforms Pilot ellis island closed because mass immigration and

(02:01:03):
the quota. System rose because. Fear prevailed the nineteen sixty
five law reopened the. Door cautiously nineteen eighty six tried
to reset the, system imperfectly and today we're still arguing
over the consequences. Of Both So ellis island didn't close
Because the american. Dream ended it closed because the, system

(02:01:24):
changed and the tension between openness and control never. Went
away that tension, isn't new and it goes back TO
what i think is the, founding tension and that divides
so much of, our politics which is a basic argument
of who gets to Be? An AMERICAN and i actually

(02:01:45):
think it should continue to be the single most important
debate question That a civics teacher should want to be
asked to everybody that runs, for office and, every debate
every interview of a new CANDIDATE for aufas should always include, that,
question right who gets to Be? An american.

Speaker 2 (02:02:10):
Tell me how you.

Speaker 1 (02:02:10):
Answer that you answer that question, for Me and i'll
tell you what your political, philosophy is because that's the
debate we continue, to have and ultimately it's the debate
that's at the heart of the of this division and
what has been essentially a never ending debate about who

(02:02:35):
gets to Be, an american who gets to Come, to
america who gets to Work, in america and who gets
to be who gets the Privileges of? American citizenship, all
right so, with that let me sneak in a. Few
questions we'll do a little last check. Coming up I'm

(02:02:57):
gonna i'm gonna give an empty the, mail bag as,
they say but let me do a, few Now, Ask,
Chuck haye Chuck And happy holidays wanted a flag a
fun but serious proposal from former Podcast Guest Congressman Chris,
deluzio Pennsylvania The Hot Dog act Honest hot dog is

(02:03:18):
an acronym in this case honest oversight of ticketed dining
and on, site grub which calls ON the ftc to
investigate concession price gouging at publicly. Funded stadiums has anyone
who's recently been to a major sporting event can attest
food prices are out? Of control giving your intersection of sports,
And politics i'd love to hear your take. ON this ps,
totally random but do you have a favorite? Political comedy

(02:03:41):
dave nineteen ninety three is high on. My List. Chris pittsburgh,
you know that's actually a good it's a good top
five LIST that i ought to come. Up with i'll
tell you the FIRST movie i think of when you
asked me about a good political Comedy Is. Distinguished gentlemen
It's The eddie murphy One. On congress it was written in.
EARLY nineties i remember in THE moment i felt the

(02:04:03):
same way about that MOVIE that i Felt about idiocracy
the FIRST time i saw it when it came Out. In.
No six let's just say an age. AS well I
Think distinguished gentleman does as good of a job of
Explaining how congress, actually works or, excuse Me how, washington
works since it's a CLASS that i teach for my
FRIENDS at usc than any. Any other dave's a, Good
one don't get, Me wrong dave's in that my, top

(02:04:25):
Five But distinguished GENTLEMEN probably i go a little bit
higher because it was written by ex, congressional staffers so
there was there was little little grace notes of detail
that were just Fantastic that dave. Didn't have, dave romanticized,
You know dave is sort Of the west wingification of it,

(02:04:48):
of things a little bit kind Of Like american president,
You know dave feels like it should have Been An
aaron zorcin even though. It wasn't but it's sort of
the fantasy land versus distinguished gentleman is a little bit
more of a reality check. On it, so ANYWAY but. I,
DIGRESS look i think you bring up an, interesting point

(02:05:08):
and it's one OF those i remember when the the
sort of the snobbish political media Coop coud biden focusing on.
Junk fees but this sort of incremental price gouging that.
Takes place first, OF all i do think sporting events

(02:05:31):
and music events are becoming we are pricing out the, middle,
Class right and, IN fact i would expand That. To.
Disney right look at how expensive two Nights at, disney
are and. THERE isn't, i, mean basically if you're Not a,
florida resident you and you get a little bit Of
the florida, resident discount it's hard To afford disney more

(02:05:54):
than sort of once, a, lifetime right once. A generation
it is that expense, to do and it, is look,
YOU know i. Could, MIND hey i only paid fifty
bucks to go See The, rolling, Stones RIGHT and i
THINK and i remember feeling price GOUTS when i was
sitting in the four hundreds for you too at. Ninety

(02:06:16):
bucks and then of course there's the amount of money
my daughter spent to Go See taylor SWIFT that i
may or may not have helped subsidize at least one
of the concerts that you got, to see and that
was well into the three and four hundred. Dollars range
so some of this, is inflation there's. No doubt but,
you know are we making sporting events and, you're, right

(02:06:39):
right so many taxpayer dollars are being used to develop
almost all of.

Speaker 2 (02:06:45):
These.

Speaker 1 (02:06:46):
Venues right there aren't many arenas or stadiums that don't
have some that didn't get developed without some sort of public.
Tax break some of it is. QUITE small, i mean
the owner Of the dolphs mostly built everything on. His
own but, you know it's not like he built the
roads to the stadium that he got that that certainly had,

(02:07:07):
some taxpayer uh taxpayer involvement. In it but all of,
these venues all of, these arenas open, air stadiums closed
stadiums where you, see, Concerts revivals disney, on ice, sporting,
events concerts. Et, cetera right they're all massively going up,

(02:07:33):
in price and there is this idea of captive audience.
The process, you know we've we've we've we've had fits.
And starts, you know we beat Up. Ticket master it
feels like every once in a while when we want
when when it looks like, everybody's, hey look we're we're
going to protect. The consumer let's go After ticket master
because they're kind of the, ticketing monopoly although the monopoly
is less than it was than it, once was but

(02:07:57):
you're getting at SOMETHING that i think that. There is,
you know there's always a question are we going to
hit a point where the average fan is priced out
of being able to attend to? THESE games nfl games feel,
that way, you know and you throw in the hassle of, it,
all right it's not easy to get to in some
cases that for the price, the hassle is the experience? Worth?

(02:08:22):
It right you start factoring all that in and you
know there's so many different velvet ropes that they want
to sell you as well with, these experiences and then
these teams and these even entertainers prioritize the experience for

(02:08:42):
the super elite because they can basically profit more, on
that creating more velvet rope moments for those that can,
afford it because that's where you can get your, extra
cash that's where you can get your. Extra profit not
providing those experiences for the, middle class not even providing
the opportunity beyond obviously financially being able to have. The opportunity.

Speaker 2 (02:09:06):
It, Is.

Speaker 1 (02:09:08):
Look i'm at the end of, The day i'm, a free.
Free MARKETER but i think that you are a large
customer base is better than a niche customer base that is.
Extraordinarily wealthy you may make a good business out of
that for a, few years but that is not a
long term strategy. For Success disney world works because it

(02:09:30):
seems to appeal, to all but the Minute disney world
creates these barriers to entry that are now higher and
higher for the, working, class well Then suddenly disney isn't.
For all And suddenly disney RELEASES a dvd or a
movie or a new show, on streaming and people don't
want to give you the six dollars a, month anymore

(02:09:50):
the ten dollars a month anymore in order to get
access to those princess movies or get access to some
of these fun. Animated shorts and then you suddenly lose
pieces of your. Customer base, SO look I think i love.
The idea you know that you focus on publicly. FUNDED

(02:10:13):
stadiums i would love find me the stadium or arena
that didn't have some public. Funding help and again to
me building roads and freeways that explicitly get to your
stadium Like The Joe. Robbie stadium yes he did the stadium,
part himself but not all of the government essentially infrastructure

(02:10:37):
that was needed to support fifty to eighty thousand people
going in and out of that place ten or fifteen times.
A year so, in fairness there isn't. Anything there and,
you know wouldn't it be interesting if you essentially created
two pricing structures where those that paid taxes in that

(02:11:03):
area got, a discount the Same way disney Does give
florida residents. A discount you Get a florida. RESIDENT discount
i assume there's One. IN california i don't know about.
THAT one i know About the florida ONE because i
LIVE the.

Speaker 2 (02:11:16):
I have lived.

Speaker 1 (02:11:17):
Planing around there's, certain months it used to be certain
months a year That the florida discount would. Kick in,
you know IT'S basically i think it would be the
times that others were traveling less and They wanted, you
know it used to Be that, disney saw just get
people in your park and then you can sell them,
other stuff even if you get them in the park.

(02:11:39):
For free and it used to be the mindset of, stadium,
owners right gets you into, the park, you know buy
a ten. Dollars coke, you know so what if you
got the ticket? For free AT least i got some
money out. Of you but it's an. INTERESTING thought i
will just tell. You this this is the type of
populist politics that cuts across. Partisan lines right when you're

(02:11:59):
sort of getting at something that annoys the liberal and,
the conservative, you know, you're, like man what's this? Price
gouging didn't my taxpayers contribute taxpayer money contribute? To this
WHY am i now paying an extra surcharge on top
of the tax dollars that already went? To this? You
KNOW so i think IT'S a i think it's A
good it's like the stock trading ban at it's good.

(02:12:22):
POPULOUS politics i don't know if this is, good LAW
but i do know it's. Good politics, all right let
me take one. More question we'll do a, little, football
BECAUSE like, I said i'm going to do a whole
monster mail bag HERE that i promise this comes From.
Daniel a, He, Says, hey chuck a few weeks ago
you mentioned that both parties are likely to see new congressional.
Leadership soon how much do you think the twenty twenty
six midterms will shape? Those races, for Instance if democrats

(02:12:45):
gained lots, of seats could new moderates push for centrist
LEADERSHIP while gip losses leave only hard right members to
elevate a more. Extreme leader or are there are other
dynamics at play beyond. The, MATH look i think the
math is going to. Mean something.

Speaker 2 (02:12:58):
You know Take Take.

Speaker 1 (02:12:59):
Chuck ship though he's unpopular In the, democratic base there's
no doubt. About it he has got many elected senators
who don't have the confidence in. His leadership But if
democrats Gain, the senate are they really going to get rid?
Of them they're not going to get rid. Of them
it's just not the way, senators behave even if there's

(02:13:19):
a slew of. New senators so the, point being his results, matter, Here,
right Look Does mike johnson state speaker if they Hold? The,
house yes, YOU know, i mean it's, just yes that's how,
it works you know, It is and is he gone
and not a leader at all if they lose control Of. The,
house yes that's going to be the. Case too by,

(02:13:42):
THE way i Think both Schumer, and Jeffries if democrats
don't Win the House, and senate they're. Both gone the
question is whether any of them can SURVIVE what i
think is going to, be knockdown drag out intra party
fights in twenty eight on the direction of. Both parties
you know? Which direction Is The democratic party going? To

(02:14:03):
go in a more democratic socialist direction or in a
more sort of business. Friendly? Direction right that is ultimately
the larger argument that that party's going, To HAVE and
i think the larger Argument the republicans are going to
have is are they going to be a sort of
more of a populist nationalist party or are they going

(02:14:26):
to be a more, free market business. Friendly party and
that same fight in a different different ways is going
to and it's going to be interesting because you have
some people participating both in the center left camp and
the center right camp hoping that at least one of
them wins their argument in. Their primaries it's possible, neither,

(02:14:47):
does right and we Get jd VANCE and, aoc right
which would be, you know it's SORT of. I joke,
you know if We Got ken Paxon And jasmine Crockett,
in texas it would be essentially a preview of what
would happen if both parties nominated from their bases the
next two. Presidential NOMINEES so i do think the results
in twenty six will have a. Huge impact the safest

(02:15:09):
of the four Leaders is Thune because thune Isn't a,
trump acolyte but he is seems to Have managed trump,
okay enough, you know, we'll see but, you KNOW and
i don't think losses will be attributed. TO him i

(02:15:30):
think the losses will be Attributed, to trump which weirdly Could. Strengthen,
thune so of, THE four I think thune is the least,
in danger but all of the other three very much
their futures rely on the results of the of the
twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (02:15:46):
Mid Terms, All right i'm gonna stop THERE because i
think for many of you this Will be i'm gonna
use this instead of a little bit of a football.

Speaker 1 (02:16:03):
IN review a. Little bit we had our, single best
most interesting College football bowl day that you, could have
and it really was just not, that. INTERESTING right, I
mean i ENJOYED The Byu georgia. TECH game i was
glad to see it. Was competitive it does feel as
If The Pop tarts bowl is now the only non

(02:16:24):
major bowl that anybody seems to have, heard of which is. Just.
Crazy right, you know back in, my Day The, Gator Bowl,
Liberty Bowl, peach bowl which were not. Major bowls then
none of Them Were. Citrus bowl, you know they had
their own cachets. About it, you Know The sun bowl
had a, real History The liberty bowl had a. Real
history i've been To A, liberty bowl for what. It's
worth i've been To A peach bowl back in the

(02:16:46):
day when It was miami's first bowl game in, fifteen
years and you still have, the. Phenomenon, right Look The
Clemson penn state game was just atrocious. To watch the
only game worse to watch was was the Mind Of
Ohio president. State, game literally if you only if you
were gambling, on it were you watching. That GAME so

(02:17:07):
i may have given a hint a way OF how
i was watching, that GAME but i always made sure
it was in my, four box EVEN the. Nfl, offerings,
right boy this was Just a christmas dud FOR. The nfl,
it all all of those games lacked a little. Something,
right obviously relevance is a big part, of it and
there Was No. Patrick mahomes right, in theory it was

(02:17:29):
supposed to Be the Cowboys and commanders fighting it out
for a playoff spot or, the division just like it
seemed like that could be at the beginning of. The
season so it was a good day FOR. The NBA
as i, told you these were games, worth WATCHING and
i have to Say the. Knicks delivered that was a
heck of. A Game, Knicks calves wemby DELIVERED as i

(02:17:50):
Promised you. Wemby would, and man you gotta Love Me Sam.
Anthony edwards, you know he's the he to me is
the forgotten. Rising star he's like the guy that sort
of everybody wants to. Talk About and Yannis, and jokic
and then there's old ant That, he edwards who's kind
of an Old school he's just a, You Know Lebron
kobe jordan like player who, you know can do a

(02:18:12):
little bit. Of everything wants to be that kind. Of
player and We, forget hey don't forget. Ant man i'm
a huge. ANT man i. Enjoy. IT man i enjoy
watching him play basketball because it kind of feels like
a throwback to THE game i grew up with in
the eighties. And nineties, you know there's a there's this
sort of a style that he plays WITH that. I
enjoy BUT the, nba delivered and you got to give

(02:18:33):
it to, them. Karma RIGHT the nfl tried to Steal It,
it's christmas and it really just. Fell flat and now
you have so many opt outs by, THE way, i mean,
you know end up dealing with opt outs in, bowl
games and you're dealing with, you know teams that. Are
deciding are we using this to try to see which
players we want? To keep, you know and we're seeing the.

(02:18:56):
Same thing and this one was this is a warning
the college football if you choose to go to twenty,
four teams because you'll get the last week or two of,
the season you may get games that, are meaningless more
games that. Are meaningless look at all the meaningless games
now IN, the nfl like next Week. The packers they
don't even get me started In the packers situation at. The,
MOMENT look i obviously have skin in the game As a.

(02:19:20):
PACKER fan.

Speaker 2 (02:19:24):
I the coach.

Speaker 1 (02:19:26):
Frustrates me, you guys if you've learned anything from Me
is i'm obsessed with, play CALLERS and i hold play
callers more responsible than anybody else when it comes to
my two favorite. Football Teams the universe remind, me Football
the universy, remind me And The Green. Bay packers and
here's what, frustrates, Me right, i've gone, you know soup

(02:19:48):
the nuts on my frustrations With The miami hurricane Play
Caller shannon dawson and how he does, not call does
not game plan for the team we're playing until the.
Second half it. Drives me, it's terrible and it Has
put miami in the situation of almost not making. THE
playoffs i really, believe that but it almost cost US

(02:20:09):
the A and. M game and it better he better
actually game plan because If The ohio state team shows
up that showed Up, AGAINST indiana mimi could beat that
team if they actually gain plan to face that team
and don't wait until the second half to start play
calling against the actual defense, you're facing not just simply

(02:20:29):
getting your offense offensive issues worked out to see what's
working and. What. Isn't well my complaint about lafleor Is
and this is something me and my packer buddies we've
been talking about a lot in our. Text chain why
is It that lafloor looks like he is more dynamic
of a play Caller when willis is at quarterback Than
When jordan love is. At quarterback and, You Know jordan, love,

(02:20:54):
games look, He wins he's got a, good record and
you can't, you know it is never Flashy. With love
and you know it's Not Like favar rogers both were a.
Bit more, You know love is just very careful by.
The way that's. Pretty responsible he runs the. Offense well
he doesn't improvise. As MUCH and i think that's the

(02:21:14):
jenesiqua that's sometimes missing from, you Know From. Jordan love apologists,
like myself because there isn't like these, you know you
know he does he is pretty good at sort of
when he moves around, the pocket but for, whatever reason
he doesn't like to run. As Much, and willis you

(02:21:36):
know what you see with the packers is that there,
To Me malik willis the last two weeks has looked
like a better Version Of, jalen hurts has looked like
a a Version Of lamar jackson that has succeeded in
the past right where he is comfortable run behaving like

(02:21:57):
a running back. At, times right and he will both,
you Know Both jalen Hurts. And lamar you know they
both have learned not to take as. Many hits but,
early on, you know they were running backs who could throw.
The BALL and I Think Malik wilson willis was and
that this is why it took him a while. TO
develop i Think from liberty and et cetera said he
was really a running back who could throw the ball

(02:22:19):
and who could game plan and who could read. A
defense and He's obviously and when you think About, where
laflour yes he comes, from McVeigh but it's sort of That,
McVeigh shanahan The larger, shanahan tree And the shanahan tree
does like to emphasize the. Running game and it's clear
to Me that Lafleur Wishes jordan love would. Run more

(02:22:40):
and if, HE would i think he would game plan
more that you would you would see more run RPOs
that WHERE the r was picked BEFORE the p was
picked and the quarterback did a little bit more running than.
He does and when, you know it's sort of when
that system is working on. All cylinders it's when you

(02:23:02):
have a quarterback that is willing. To run and it
does seem as if for, whatever REASON.

Speaker 2 (02:23:07):
And i don't.

Speaker 1 (02:23:08):
Know enough i'm Not a packers, beat Reporter but i'd
love to know is? This something are We? Protecting love
we're afraid of him? Getting hurt has there? Been issues
is it like you know that they don't want him to?
Take hits does he not want to? Take hits, you
know we don't know the, full situation but for, whatever
reason the play calling feels much more dynamic over the

(02:23:32):
last couple of Weeks when willis has. Been there now part,
of it maybe the stakes, are lower And so lafleur
doesn't second guess himself as Much when willis is at
quarterback Than when love is. At quarterback but as, a
fan as a fan who watches, every play there's a

(02:23:53):
noticeable difference into how he. Calls it there's a liberation
in the play. CALLING decisions i feel Like that lafleur
Makes when willis, is there Then when love, Is there and,
you know look for All the packer fans that have
enjoyed the way the offenses look these last two Weeks

(02:24:15):
and i'm one. Of them i'm also mindful they lost
the last. Two games first one was a freak way,
to lose and, you Know the ravens GAME was i.
DON'T know, i, mean Clearly Losing kenny clark in the
Trade Of micah parsons matters. A Lot If michaeh parsons,
gets hurt we have nobody to stuff. The run and,

(02:24:36):
MY god, i mean it Looked Like derek henry was
back in. High school it was just ridiculous that he
got over one. Hundred yards and so it doesn't matter
what you do on offense if you can't stop the
run on. That front SO but i, go back that's
THE question, i have and that's the question we're going,
to see. YOU know, I mean I assume wellis plays

(02:24:57):
again in the final week because the have no reason.
To play i'm a little Concerned About jordan love rust
for what. It's worth so maybe let's treat it like
a third preseason game where maybe he plays for a
quarter and then you Bring. In willis be, careful there
but there's SOMETHING off i think in the Relationship Between

(02:25:19):
jordan love and the floor that that is that is
a that would be A theory i would PURSUE if
i Were a packers. Beat reporter do are they not as?
In sync why does the offense look more Dynamic when
willis is? Running it it's just, A fact. It's true
is it just as Simple as willis is willing to
run and Love isn't is it different? Play calling is

(02:25:42):
it different RPOs that? He's given is, it SIMPLY like,
I said willis playing for. A job. I'm curious, you
know he's not at. A contract Do the packers get anything?
For HIM if i Were The miami Dolphin and mike,
McDaniel Stays malik willis would be an incredible quarterback. For

(02:26:05):
them he could be the guy that unlocks, that team
that offense in a way that two and never could
unlock because that was a case where they couldn't use
they couldn't have to run. The ball but if You get,
mike McDaniel who was remember a run game, coordinator first
and he's essentially wants to be a run, first team
And the dolphins have been a bit more competitive when

(02:26:27):
they've just decided to screw it with, Tow him let's
be a run. First, team well what If That's malik
willis back There with Devon a chain And Oli Oli.
Gordon jr and You Have, jalen waddell and you have
a couple of those, good receivers and you have a
Mean leak willis that can also run.

Speaker 2 (02:26:46):
The ball.

Speaker 1 (02:26:49):
As a, packer fan Can the packers get first? Or
second can they at least get a second round pick? For?

Speaker 2 (02:26:54):
Him uh in this.

Speaker 1 (02:26:56):
Day and age OF, the nfl do you want to
pay a backup court back reasonable money to keep? Them
around given this is now two years in a row
Where the packers have had to play meaningful games with a. Backup,
Quarterback right these are all questions That the packers have
to decide in the. Off season but it's interesting there,
all right a few storylines for the upcoming quarterfinals Of

(02:27:20):
The College. Football, playoff obviously You've Got Miami. VERSIO state
i love that my FRIENDS at espn are promoting the.
Historic nature the last time they met when stakes were,
this high was when a controversial flag was thrown By
a big twelve official by the Name Of terry porter
calls the pass interference That Handed jim Trussell And ohio

(02:27:40):
state their first. National Title For, ohio state it was
their first national title in over thirty years at the
time and essentially jump, started there brought their program back to.
Elite status without that Victory, over miami you know that
if they lose, that game they was, Scandal ridden tressell
was kind of driven out that whole the backle with

(02:28:00):
their big freshmen at. The time, you know all. Of
That ohia state may never Be The ohio state we
know of today without that controversial ending to, that game
where if they just are another Hurdle in miami's drive
to be the greatest greatest of, their GENERATION which i
still think they probably have atod pretty good case for

(02:28:25):
that back to back would have cemented it in a
way that would have. Been, different right even though that
one team is considered an, all time that entire entity
WOULD be i think it would be An elevated there
wouldn't even be a debate WITH the lsu twenty. Nineteen
team but what it Did For, ohio, State Right ohio
state hadn't won a national title in over, thirty years

(02:28:46):
hadn't had always been a wanna be, never really, you
know it'd always been sort of the, rung below kind
of Like where wisconsin football had been sitting for the
last twenty, five years, so close but can't quite make
that next SLEEP where i Would argue oregon football is,
at right which, is boy they seem to be with the,
big boys but they when are they ever going to?

(02:29:06):
Break through are they ever going to actually win? A
title can they ever actually? Break through.

Speaker 2 (02:29:13):
And so there's some fun.

Speaker 1 (02:29:14):
Storyline There The big ten has a lot on, the,
Line right i'm if you told me All Three big
ten teams lost, This Weekend i'll State, To miami Indiana,
to Alabama and Oregon To. Texas, tech right there's the
only other Game Is Georgia ole miss which Has No
big ten team. In it what's, the, Narrative right i'm, Just,

(02:29:40):
Saying look i'm not. Predicting anything and, you Know The
big ten's fan BASE is, i think second. To none
they have. Terrific fans you know they'll they'll sell out
stadiums for eight and, Four teams so kudos. TO them
i just think it's a storyline that's sitting. Out there
i'm obviously very Bullish and iamy's ability To Beat. OHIO

(02:30:01):
state I Think. TEXAS tech I think oregon is. MUCH
softer i don't THINK they've i am not impressed With who. Oregon's, Beat,
yet look They Beat. Texas tech i'm not going to
be a. Doubter Anymore but i'm a DOUBTER until i
see them play a team that CAN physically, i think
bully them in. A way they haven't. Faced yet they

(02:30:21):
Didn't Face ohio state, this year they Didn't, face michigan
they didn't face the More Physical big. Ten, teams well we.
Shall see Maybe maybe indiana, does count is That maybe iowa.
Does count but look at the struggles they Had with Indiana,
and iowa who are built more Physically than. Oregon IS
so i HAVE some i have some. Suspicion there and

(02:30:41):
then of course there's the THE question i Have In
indiana alabama is you know you have the Whole hot,
you know there used to be there was a bit
of A the it seemed as if we went through
a period in the eighties and nineties where the team
With The heisman trophy candidate usually lost their if they
were playing a meaningful, little game usually lost and the, assumption,

(02:31:03):
was well the player wasn't around. As much they were
basically on the. Banquet circuit because if you Win The,
heisman trophy it also means you likely Win a davy
O'Brien or you win the and there's all these, awards
ceremonies and yes, they've consolidated it's somewhat into. One thing
but you're doing you're making more money than you've ever
made at, any time and, appearance fees maybe you're starting,

(02:31:24):
a business maybe you're doing all sorts. Of stuff so
you have the distraction issue that, is that never mind
the overall distraction that every players are facing with the
portal being portal door opens two days After the, miami
game one day After the january, first games which is
what's leading a lot of people to assume That ole
miss gets just Hammered by georgia because half those players

(02:31:47):
are trying to figure out what hour they should SIGN
with lsu to transfer From ole MISS to lsu And Follow.
Lane kiffin so the two QUESTION marks i Have In.
Alabama indiana One is Kaylen de bor is a great, Game,
planner okay and you can't deny that he's not. The guy,
You know alabama is better in bigger games than they

(02:32:09):
are in. Smaller GAMES so i, you know and you
Look at Kaylen de bor's record in playoffs at lower
levels how he handled big Games at, washington right it
did seem as they he was a. Game planner indiana
has some significant injuries, on defense including the one where

(02:32:32):
they lost. The lineman thanks to their celebration Of The big,
ten game that's not an. Insignificant loss so And The,
rose bowl, you know this is the Biggest stage indiana's ever.
Played on now we're going to keep saying that right
wherever stage, they are it's the biggest stage because and,
you know look when you're when you're knocking on the
door of the, elite Club, Right, indiana, oregon right you certain. Certain,

(02:32:58):
Entities already alabama lose and it won't matter to their long.
Term legacy indiana loses and suddenly. Is out they couldn't
play with the big boys. Right up the first time
they FACE an, sec opponent look what happens. To them
so the pressure's More. In indiana alabama's playing with, house
money just like the pressure's More In. Ohio state miami's
playing with. House money the pressure's MORE on i Think

(02:33:20):
On texas tech In The texas tech organ game for what,
it's worth Because the, big, twelve right, You know miami
got its win to prove. It Belong The big twelve
hasn't gotten its WIN. By us Win Over georgia tech
is not the same As As texas tech Knocking, off
oregon AND will I Think texas tech is on. THE

(02:33:40):
level i, Really do but you got to see. It
right they're knocking on the door and they, went in
and the Winner Of Texas tech oregon has a better
shot of getting letting in the door than the, loser.
Does obviously And Then GEORGIA olemiss i THINK the, i
THINK oh, I am i am betting That that georgia

(02:34:01):
just sort of. Smokes them and it has more to
do with Distracted ole miss players than it is debating
whether one side is better than. THE other i just think, it's,
Simply uh george is better. In general and you're going
to have half of The old miss team thinking about
it's uh how much money they're gonna get PAID. At
lsu so. WE'LL see i am awfully CONFIDENT If i

(02:34:27):
i'll SAY where i am either blindly loyal to my
my Homies In coral GABLES or i am right, about
this and THAT is i think the point spread on
this is just ridiculous. And ABSURD and I think this
gets it to. How perception, You, know again a point

(02:34:48):
spread doesn't indicate whether these teams. Are close it's how
the public. Regards them and there is a Belief That
ohio state is a juggernaut And the miami it can
all fall apart at, any, moment right and it's all about,
recency Bias and miami has fall has not met. The

(02:35:09):
MOMENT although i would argue That the miami teams in
the last ten years wouldn't have WON that A and,
m game this team. Seems different we're going to find
Out Against. Ohio state but that's that nine and a half.
POINT spread i just don't. BUY it i don't think
that game this. Game is if it's more than, One
score i'd. BE surprised i think it's going to be another.

(02:35:32):
SLOW game i think it's going to be, another grinder
particularly in the. First HALF and i will, SAY this
i Don't think miami Wins If ohio state scores more
than twenty. FOUR points i don't Know if miami can
score thirty one or twenty seven or. TWENTY eight i

(02:35:52):
Think if miami wins, this game it's because they win
the game twenty four to twenty twenty four, to seventeen twenty.
To seventeen you See where. I'm going that's that's my expectation.
On That but i'll Tell you i'll SAY what i said.
IT there i do think it's about time look to
just let. Her rip you're going to have to if

(02:36:14):
we fall behind by. TEN points i want, to see,
you Know Let carson beck live or die, with him
don't try to protect. Him ANYMORE and i still think
there's too much play calling that's done to protect rather
than simply to let the chips fall where. They May, All,
Right um, i've GOT like, i said, coming up we'll

(02:36:38):
have one more drop. THIS week i got a couple
of what IFS that i am doing based on, your
feedback two pretty. Big Ones one i've already told You
that i'm gonna do about twenty What if trump wins
a twenty. Twenty election i'm actually going to put two
different what ifs into the same. Episode there i'm also
going to Do a powerhouse. Mail bag we're going to
go forty five minutes full. Just, question so by, the

(02:37:01):
way if you're listening now and you want to get
a question in under the under the under.

Speaker 2 (02:37:05):
The deadline.

Speaker 1 (02:37:06):
Submit asap so, with that thanks for, your support thanks,
for listening and until we, upload again hm m m
m hm

Speaker 4 (02:37:17):
Hm

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