Interview Only w/ Reese Gorman & Kate Nocera - Capitol Hill Is A MESS & The Vibes Are LOW - The Chuck ToddCast

Episode Transcript
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(01:53):
a news organization that I think has take taken Washington
by storm.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
It's called Notice.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
It is News of the United States, the otis PTISCTUS,
all of those fun little acronyms that we Washingtonians love
to use and abuse, but Notice has become It is
the original. One of the original founders of Politico, Robert
Albritton is basically is the is the godfather of Notice.

(02:21):
It is a nonprofit that's in some ways they are
becoming the Washington Bureau for independent local news. In some
ways they're the independent Washington bureau that exists today. And
I'll just put it in these terms. In Washington every morning,
I now care about four email alerts that I have
to read before I read anything else. Washington Post, Punch Bowl, Politico,

(02:44):
and I put Notice in that category. They have been
scoop machines on Capitol Hill because that's the point they've
been going to where the best news, the easiest place
to find news if you just work a little bit
Capitol Hill. In joining me now or two of the
one is the managing editor, Kate Nissara and one of
their great reporters, Res Gorman, who just started a podcast

(03:07):
for Notice.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Welcome to both of you. Thank you, appreciate, appreciate you
coming on.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Kate.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Before we get into sort of.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
The world that we're all in the middle of covering
right now and what we're watching, and I will time
stamp this. We're taping Tuesday afternoon here on December second,
So if you it might be a few things out
of date, but why don't you add to what I
didn't include you in the description of Notice and in

(03:38):
the origin story, in your origin story of how you
got there?

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Sure, as you said, Notice is a non partisan newsroom
in Washington, d C. We cover power and politics. A
lot of our focus of our coverage is on the Hill,
but we also cover agencies, the White House policy uh
and we our model is we have early career journalists,

(04:06):
work with more veteran journalists like myself and bring them
through you know, a two year fellowship over at the
All Britton Journalism Institute. That's our nonprofit side work with them.
They get, you know, full newsroom experience, They focus on

(04:27):
state delegations, they focus on different beats. They really get
like the full education of what it is to be
a Washington See a reporter. It's super inspiring, wonderful to
work in a place where people you know, really want
to do this job and want to do this great work.

(04:47):
And at the same time, like we break news. You know,
we have reporters like Reece who are on Capital Hills
breaking news and teaching these folks how to do it.
And it's awesome just to bring everybody together and like
towards the school year old now you know, making Washington.

(05:08):
We are entering our third year.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
This is your third year. My my, my, apologies. It
feels still feels new to Washington. Still feel new.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, I still feel I still feel
new new to notice. But I think that's like the
exciting part of being at a startup, being at something new,
is that it does feel new and fresh. I do
think that. Like, really, in the last year, we have
established ourselves as you know, a go to place for

(05:39):
people to get their news and very reliable.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
You use you went out of your way to use
the word don partisan. How how do you you know
other than saying it a million times?

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Right? Give me how how do you?

Speaker 1 (05:56):
I go back in the movie Tommy Boy, there's this
guy says, I want to guarantee on the box right,
and he says I like it saying guarantee right. We
all want to say nonpartisan?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
What does it mean?

Speaker 1 (06:08):
And how do you execute a policy that guarantees that
this is nonpartisan?

Speaker 4 (06:16):
I don't think it means like not pulling your punches
right or making sure that you just be you know,
one person says the sky is blue, and so the
other person has to say the sky is black. It
doesn't mean that. I think it means that we're going
to tell the stories that are interesting to our readers,
and we don't really care if they're about Republicans or Democrats.

(06:41):
We're going to break big news about about all the
characters in DC. And what non partisan means to me
is going after the stories that our audience wants, that
our audience needs, like what serves them best. And so
to me, that is not some sort of middling or

(07:02):
mealy mouthed way of saying like, yes, we need to
show both sides. We obviously go and ask for comment
from both sides. But I think that it is about
making sure that we go where the story is.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
I used to say about the phrase fair and balance.
Balance is the code word there. It's called fairness. If
you're fair, you can't balance the truth. Just like you're saying,
it's like, sometimes there's both sides to an argument, sometimes
there's not.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
You're just seeking the truth. So it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
One other uh, one other thing you've mentioned is your audience?
Who do you believe is your who? Who do you
imagine is your audience?

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Right?

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Like we all you know, there's the audience that you have,
the audience that you want, So tell me the audience
that you want. And who you think your your sort
of median reader is.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah, I mean, I think our Menian reader is a
pretty knowledgeable Washington you know, someone who who is a
policy maker. We definitely want to talk to the people
who are looking at laws making laws. But then that
ring sort of expands outwards. We also something we have

(08:22):
at Notices called the Washington Bureau Initiative, where the fellows
from the A. J. I side who are reporters notice
cover state delegations. I think probably as you know, a
lot of state delegation coverage has really gone by the wayside,
and so it's yeah, yeah, yeah, it's gone right, Like

(08:45):
probably like the New York Post has as a reporter
in DC, but they're they're covering the delegations. So having
eyes and ears on lawmakers, see uh. And we partner
with local outlets in a number of different states and
are able to provide them coverage. So there's that circle

(09:06):
and then the circle of you know, sort of expands
outwards from there, right.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
And you know, I think about you know, when you
were talking about its early entry journalists. You know where
I got my start was at the Hotline, and that's
basically was our pitch. You know, we were there, We
want to be your first job, your first real job
out of journalism, your first real job as you get
ready to understand Washington. And there were other entities out

(09:31):
there that were sort of similar, but in this way
similar financial lifestyles, meaning you didn't make very much money.
It was there was something called State's News Service. You'd
have things called like Medill's News Service, which was you know,
in a few other journalism schools that tried to do
the same thing you're doing with your institute, which is,
can you kind of be a Washington bureau for news

(09:53):
organizations that don't have one? Like I remember a friend
of mine at the Hotline got to be the Washington
bureau for the Dover Delaware, the Delaware State News, which
meant he got to sit down and interview their senior
senator at the time, a guy named Joe Biden. And
it was like, because there was no other person to
talk to if you wanted to talk to the state's
largest newspaper. Are you guys alone in this space now?

(10:17):
Or State's News still around you see this? Are you
guys suddenly the only only shop in town that is
sort of turning into this incubator for young journalists political journalists.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
I wouldn't go as far as says that we're the
only shop in town. I think we're probably the best
shop in town personally, but you know, certainly, I think
one of the more intensive programs for the fellows that
come in through here and they have, you know, a
very long, intensive boot camp when they first arrive, but

(10:51):
then every day is really a boot camp working in
a newsroom. I know when I started on Capitol Hill,
I was just kind of like dropped into it and
it was like figure it out, and there is a
method to that madness, right like sink or swim? Can
you do it? I do think like journalists, you know,
learn how to figure it out. But like I didn't

(11:11):
know where the food was on the hill for a
really long time. I was just walking around hungry.

Speaker 5 (11:16):
All day bathrooms, right Like I always say this, like
that's how you you know, you know, over time you
figure out, Yeah, you know what, the second floor in
Rayburn has a bathroom that's you know, actually kind.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Of clean, and you know, don't you know if you
get over.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Here, but that takes time. I mean, I know that's silly,
but it's not silly, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
It's the way you do your job.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Ment Like mentorship, real mentorship between reporters like Reese or Riley,
Roderterson or the you know, the people that really do
this day in and day out, where where the younger
fellows can come and learn from them directly and learn
from the editors directly, Like that is not built into
most newsrooms that I have ever seen. We like to

(12:00):
call it like a teaching hospital model, where we are
you know, we're here, we're doing really important work, and
the residents come in and learn from us, but they
are also really doing the work. I mean, some of
our biggest stories have been broken by aji fellows who
are all those reporters. And so you know, I'm just
like incredibly proud every day of the work that I'm doing.

(12:23):
And to be doing this work in twenty twenty five
and feeling both like very proud and inspired I think
is probably probably rare. I don't know, I can speak
for myself and just say that I'm very happy to
be doing what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Rees I mean, describe your experience at Notice. How'd you
get there? And I like to echo what Kate said.
I mean, it's sort of my feeling in what I'm
doing in the world of independentjournalism. It must be nice
to be at a place that wants to grow rather
than shrain.

Speaker 6 (12:54):
Definitely, And that's kind of how I got I mean,
I was in Oklahoma doing local news and then dub
with the Washington Examiner covering in Congress and was really
had just kind of thrown to the deep end and
just started doing it. Went to the Daily Beast, was
there for only about three or four months, and to point,
the Daily Beasts did not want to grow. We got
sold about three months into me being there, and they

(13:15):
basically just were like, you guys are not going to
be here much longer, and I don't think they have
a DC Bureau anymore. And so in that I was
like looking for obviously a job, I mean, the variety
was on the wall that we're I was going to
be laid off, like they're getting rid of everyone.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
And Notice came along.

Speaker 6 (13:33):
And I got a I think Tim, I know for
a fact. So I get a call from Tim Alberta,
who's one of our uh one of a mentor here
at Notice for the Fellows, and he was like, I
want you you should come work at Notice. And I
was like, I don't even know really what notice is
at this point, Like I I think my boss, my boss,
the Daily Beast had gone, but like I, it was
still less than a year old at this point. And

(13:54):
he was like, just come get a drink with me
and Tim Greve, the editor, and I'll convince you to come.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
So I think that night got a drink.

Speaker 6 (14:02):
And by the end of the night I was like, okay,
sounds like I'm going to Notice. So that's kind of
why I wanted to go and then start a feel
to your point is very fun. It's nice to be
able to be a place that grows having the freedom
to chase down stories that I like chasing down. I
get time if I tell Kate about, oh I have
this crazy tip or whatever, there's the freedom to me

(14:24):
to go chase it down, to report it out without
the pressure of this has to be a story. It's
okay if there's something I chase down turns out to be.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
A dead end, which happens a lot. That happens a
lot of journalism.

Speaker 6 (14:35):
That's it's not always so I do appreciate the ability
to just go chase down tips that I get without
the pressure of being like, Okay, this doesn't pan out,
then I'm going to be in trouble, and that's happened
a lot. But also a lot of the tips I've
been given the ability to chase out and have worked
out to be good stories and have turned out to
be very promising ones as well.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
And they're not.

Speaker 6 (14:57):
Afraid to take a big swing at people, and that's
something I love.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
I love.

Speaker 6 (15:02):
I mean, a lot of the stories I've written have
made people mad, and I love having the people that
are stay behind you, like, oh, we'll support.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
You even if these people are are mad. We're not
going to cower back down. That's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, that's always nice. Stagy. I always say, if you.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
To be a good journalist, you've you've got to be
comfortable not being popular. Unfortunately, in today's algorithmic uh world,
that doesn't always Trent You know that, doesn't you know
that that doesn't always That isn't as easy as it sounds.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
It should be easy for a journalists to say, hey,
without fear or favor, I don't care what you think
what we're all human beings and the way these algorithms work.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Kate, I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
How often you know, do you do you feel like
you've got to play two algorithms? Do you think about
that when you guys are posting stories?

Speaker 2 (15:59):
How much?

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I mean, you know, the whole search optimization frankly nonsense.
I get that it's a necessity if you're looking for traffic,
but I hate the way it could distort a headline.
How do you strike that balance? You guys strike me
as an organization that doesn't want to get caught up
in just chasing clicks. So what's your How do you
strike the balance? As an editor?

Speaker 4 (16:19):
I think it is always nice to have people read
your stories, but to me, not at the expense of accuracy, fairness.
It is just not something that I am obsessing over.
In the same way, it is very helpful obviously that
we you know, we how we started our connection with

(16:41):
with Ajai, those things sort of built in meant that
we were not going to be an organization that was
out there like gunning for traffic.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
All the time.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
Obviously, I love it when people read our stories or
stories blow up, when like a big story breaks and
there are a lot of eyeballs on it and people
are talking about it. Yes, like I yes, but I
want people to read my stories that like, that's what
that's about. That's not about it's not about a traffic
chase necessarily, And we are in a really unveo pole

(17:17):
position where you know, we we do have traffic goals again,
wanting people to read our stories, but it's not like
the top measurement of what we feel makes a great
story or why a story would be important to publish,
if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
And.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
How you know it used to be.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
You know, when I first got in, I remember moving
from the Hotline to NBC, and I had a standard
explanation for what the hotline was. And then the first
time I called on behalf saying I was working at NBC,
I didn't have to have an explanation of what NBC was, right,
And I remember it was an empowering feeling that first timing,
like Okay, finally I don't feel like I have to
convince somebody that I am a legitimate reporter with a

(18:05):
legitimate news organization, here's what it is. And a lot
of time with the Hotline, it was usually trying to
introduce what it was to somebody who hadn't run in
politics before.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
What is this? What are you?

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, we're kind of a trade and this is what
we do, and et cetera. I imagine over the last
year you're having to explain what notices less and less
and given the fragmentation of media, is that even a
challenge anymore? Do you feel in some ways not being
part of the legacy media is actually an advantage?

Speaker 3 (18:33):
I think definitely.

Speaker 6 (18:33):
They definitely come like they approach me with less of
a I guess, kind of just a negative light.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Sometimes. I think it's also if we don't look at.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
You and see like a Peacock logo or the Post
logo or the Times logo, they just see a guy
with a small at a publication that so far seems
to be a straight shooter exactly.

Speaker 6 (18:58):
And also it does there is times when it's definitely
when I do have to like kind of explain myself
more to get in get in the door with some
people or also people to talk to me. And I
find that less difficult when it's people on the Hill
are people in politics. I feel as though when I
call them, I mean, I've worked with these people the Examiner,
at the Daily bas etcetera. Where it's not I don't

(19:18):
have to necessarily explain it. But it's more so I'm
talking to people not in the DC echo ecosystem, where,
for example, I did a story on hore emails and
his broad Star and how all these people said that
he didn't save their lives. So I was calling these
veterans that had served with him, and two of the
veterans were shot and wounded, and I had to explain

(19:38):
they weren't readers of Notice. They if I were to
call sales with the Post or the Ties, it probably
would have definitely not necessarily been easier. I would have
had to explained it. I'd be like, oh, this is
our publication, this is what we do. We're a startup,
or it's some founder of Politico. So Politico started Notice
and send them a website and it takes It definitely
is more of like an explaining thing, but they are

(20:00):
never once were they like, oh, like, I don't really
want to talk to you.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
I've heard bad things about your outloads.

Speaker 6 (20:05):
We're just like, what is it, and so there is
less of a I guess the predisposed kind of idea
of what what notice is, which is helpful in a
lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Kate, one thing that I noticed.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Yeah, sorry, no, I was gonna say. I was just
gonna say, like, I was at BuzzFeed when BuzzFeed news
started and trying to explain what BuzzFeed new was to
put Grassley or anybody else was, so like, notice is
very easy in comparison to that, Right, do.

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One of the things that I I've noticed kit and maybe
I'm looking for it because I am so appalled by

(22:05):
what's happening at the Washington Post. When it comes to
being covering the DMV as, I try hard not to
use that phrase because I do feel like it confuses
people outside of the district Maryland.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
In Virginia. No, I'm not talking about getting your driver's license.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
But I feel like, and you tell me this local
Washington politics in some ways, you guys feel like is
part of your responsibility. That is something that I think
the Washington Post has decided is no longer their responsibility.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
I saw it.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
It was striking to me how they covered the Virginia
governor's race as if it were like the Kansas governor's race.
It was like this really bizarre detachment. And I think
they have one person left in the Richmond Bureau. They've
made a decision they want to be the Wall Street Journal.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
I don't know if that's the right call, but I understand.
I get what they're doing. They're literally retreating on all
things local and wanting to be a more national conversation.
I've seen you guys lean more into local. I feel
like you've covered the mayor's race more often than the
Washington Post does. For instance, intentional or just opportunistic.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't say either. I think we're really
interested in political stories, stories about the Democratic Party, stories
about the federal government taking over Washington, d C. Which
is obviously a massive, important local and national story. I
think that the stories from Virginia about where the Democratic

(23:37):
Party was is heading super important, Wes Moore in Maryland,
Like these are all national stories that also serve as
local stories.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
The back yard, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
I just think like for us, it's like, we're here,
We've got people, these are interesting stories. Why wouldn't we
Why wouldn't we tell them? Like, I think what I
would say is, I'll just never say no to an
interesting story and all of the So.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's not like, Okay, we're covering local Washington and how
much culture like.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
An explort, but like what has happened? What happened? What's
happening to the Kennedy Center? Fascinating story that we feel
like we should be telling as well.

Speaker 6 (24:23):
You know.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
So I don't think it's fun that you like picked
up on that, because I think it is.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I guess I see it what it does for me.
It's sort of like if you guys weren't didn't exist,
I'd feel like there was a bigger gap in Like
there's just a whole bunch of what I would say
are quote local stories, as you say, with national implications
that the Washington Post has just decided no longer to cover,

(24:51):
and I don't know if that is a temporary decision
by them or not, but I think good. I mean
this is primarily I think how you've worked your way
in my daily news stream, because it feels like you're
covering stories that they stopped covering.

Speaker 6 (25:06):
To that point as well. I think also, we just
like breaking news a lot, and if there's a way
to break some news on anything, I think we're all in.
I mean, we broke the news about the I remember
it was the week the White House corresponds week. It was.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
It was a Sunday Sunday afternoon.

Speaker 6 (25:23):
I was very hungover, and we got a story of
that the Washington Commander Stadium was moving to the old
RF camp and that they the city had an agreement
they were announcing on Monday, and I remember being at
a bar, just like taking out my phone and it
was just like, it is a local story, not necessarily
a national, not usually my wheelhouse, but it's just like
we like breaking it.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
We like that whole thing, and I'm like.

Speaker 6 (25:44):
Oh, this is a good kind of scoop or a
good way to kind of break news and not going
to like nothing's really too small in that sense, because
it's like, oh, there are readers that really do care
about this.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, well, let's talk about like the environment that we're
in right now out and sort of Washington, Kate. I've
had a friend who says, who's lived here a long time,
who says, you know, it's DC feels just different. And
I always joke about like there is you know, the

(26:16):
buildings stay the same, although right with this administration, he
might actually change the building design. But it is funny
how the occupant makes people look at a building differently
and look at things a little bit differently. Do you
sense that the city has changed in the last year,
Like is he the cultural imprint on the city itself?

Speaker 2 (26:36):
On the attitude?

Speaker 1 (26:38):
You know, as a friend of mine jokes, are we
an occupied city at the moment?

Speaker 3 (26:44):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
I don't necessarily feel that way. So I I'm a
bit of a transient.

Speaker 6 (26:50):
I am.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
My permanent residence is in Massachusetts, and I come down
to Washington quite often.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
So you already view Washington as sort of a You've
got a different relationship with Washington, and perhaps I mean, I.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
Mean I lived Look, I lived here for I lived
here for thirteen years, and to go you know, with
my family and stuff. But I it's interesting to come
back because come back and forth because I read about
you know, this is happening, and this is happening, and
then I come back here and I'm like, oh, it
feels exactly the same.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, I know. People say, what's it like with the
National Guard troops.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
I'm like, other than people wearing fatigues every once in
a while walking on the sidewalk, nothing's really change.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
And in fact, I don't.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Know why, And I always say, if they were going
to do this, I don't know why they keep putting
them in the tourist attractions. I don't know why they
don't put them in other parts of the city where
maybe they could use a little bit of extra extra I.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
Actually, I mean I don't think. I don't really think
that it was Donald Trump necessarily necessarily like this term
of Donald Trump. But to me, the biggest difference was
cover Capitol Hill before the pandemic and before January sixth,
and then covering Capitol Hill after the pandemic and after January,
and that is there's like market difference.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Tell me more, Tell me more about that.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
Just like the collegiality of their gone in Gone just nothing.
It's nothing, and and and I get it. I think
the relationship with between the press and members is more strained,
definitely more difficult. I think that even I mean, Reese

(28:35):
is there every day, and maybe it's gotten better, but
the collegiality between members of the press, you know, when
I was there covering things was feet It was a
very this was your friends. It was like little like
they're your friends who you wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Obviously team presscore though, wasn't it like yeah, it felt
like everybody. It's the way the White House Press Corps.
I used to say, being in the White House Press Corps,
particularly when we went overseas, it was team America, you know,
and and there was and there was sort of a
relationship with fellow reporters that was different.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
You know, yes you competed, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah, and and please correct, like, please correct me if
I am wrong. But I am trying to when I
bring the fellows up there and bring the Hill team
up there, like I am trying to change a little
bit of that, like making sure that people understand that
this is you know, a like a really special place
to cover. Be the best place to cover. I think best.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Places to start work.

Speaker 4 (29:37):
Yeah, and see, like these people are your colleagues. These
are the people that you are, you know, go to
work with every single day, and maybe we'll even go
through like pretty crazy situation with at some point. And
so it's about treating them with respect and collegiality. But
which again, like I just feel like it was it

(30:00):
was warmer ye before.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
But yeah, Reese, I'm sure you don't love hearing about
the good old days because the other the good old
days is that they're old, right, you know, And I'm
aware like we're never going to go backwards, We're always
going to go forward. But how often do you hear
a similar sentiment as Kate just expressed from older colleagues
on the.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Hill quite a bit.

Speaker 6 (30:24):
Honestly, I do feel I mean a lot of my
closest friends are on the press corps. But to your point,
it's like it's very clickie. I mean, I'll just admit that.
I mean, it's very much like it doesn't seem like it.
There's people who I mean, I've worked along side up
here for Congressional yeah, I never talked to It's just
very different in that sense. And it's not like there's

(30:46):
any animosity or hard feelings towards just like, oh, you
have your friends, and that's that.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
It gets do you start to recognize people you don't
know the name of right, You're like, at some point
we ought to, we ought to at least, you know,
acknowledge each other's existence. It's work side by side of
it exactly.

Speaker 6 (31:01):
There is also though, like a really it's it makes
it fun too in the sense there it's like it's
very competitive. I played golf in high school in college,
and I compare it to a golf team where it's
like you're on the same team because you're all like reports,
like you're just here there and your friends, but at
the same time, like you want to kick their ass,
like you want to beat them really bad.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
And so there is.

Speaker 6 (31:20):
Much more of like competitive spirit, which I also kind
of chalk up to just there's more. I feel like
there's a lot more different outlets on the Hill now,
like there's a whole lot more competition to go against
because it's such a I think there's there's just so
much a little of information so much quickly. A lot
of people just tweet out little things that happen, or

(31:41):
Politico has their blog that they can quickly write stuff up.
So it's a lot more of like quick hit scoops,
and so that just makes the competition so much more
where that's not necessarily stuff I focus on. I don't
really care about the quick who's meeting with who, what's
going on? Who said this in conference? I like more
caring getting those things of writing like a bigger thing.
But that still is like you're trying to get it,

(32:01):
and then it's like do I run with this now
because it might get out there? Do I hold it
and use it as like an antidote as a larger,
larger story. There's just so much more competition and the
flow of information is so much quicker. It's either you
get scooped right away or you you hold in try
to hope that no one else gets it for it.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Let's talk about your first guest for your podcast. First
of all, tell me you guys launched that this week.
What's uh? Do you have a mission? You have a
north star for the podcast? What's the what give me
your focus?

Speaker 6 (32:30):
Yeah? It was definitely. I came to them about I
want to say, like six months ago. I was like,
I'd like to start podcast. I think there's a lot
of news of the Day podcast where it's like, here's
what's happening today, and you can get to your it's
hard to differentiate yourself from that.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
And I was like, there's so many of those.

Speaker 6 (32:47):
I there's a couple I listened to, but for the
best joy of me the podcast, I listened to our
more in depth get to know somebody, like you have
time to talk to them. And I was like, there's
so many members of Congress that I think that there's
the general public doesn't necessarily know unless you're you're a
c or Jim Jordan. You're on TV all the time,
like they know who those people are. But even then

(33:07):
it's like just like they don't really know them no personally.
And so I catch an idea of I was like,
I want a podcast where it's not a certainly just
it's getting another member. I want someone a listener, to
be able to listen to these interviews in six months,
a year, two years and be like and still it's relevant.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
It's not talking about so in.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Some way it's an oral profile, an exact professional profile.
Is the is the goal of each of these Yes,
So it's Steve Scalise as your first guest and what's
remarkable about him is how he has survived all this
change inside the Republican Party. Right, Like you know, basically,

(33:46):
you know when you when you look at the House leadership,
he's the I guess he's the last man standing.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
That goes back to was he did he serve with
Bayner too? Right?

Speaker 4 (33:55):
Right?

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
So so goes back to Bayner through Ryan and all
of that. So he is you know, it's funny. He's
always been considered more on the conservative side. Now I
don't know what the definition of conservative is anymore. That
was a subject of a podcast I just had with
Jack dan Forth where we were you know what, what
what people think it is conservative today is not what

(34:20):
people would have called conservative when Steve Scalice began running
for Congress. So how does he fit in today's Republican Party.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
I mean he's still universe.

Speaker 6 (34:30):
I mean the republic Party still gets I mean he's
really been able to move with the party as it goes.
He's made He's a close ally Trump. Trump still brings
him up all the time. And these things, especially the
story that Trump continually brings upout him is how he
visited him after he got shot, how his uh during
the assassination tip.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
And he always was like your wife, do you have
a great wife?

Speaker 6 (34:53):
Like she was like, I'm super nice to talk to
you when you're in the hospital, and always brings that
story up when he brings up Steve Scleice. But he's
really been able to adapt with the times, which is
not something that other members of leadership.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
We just gotta say many haven't been able to pull
that off.

Speaker 6 (35:07):
And he had Bader left beforehand, Ryan left and then
McCarthy got ousted.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
And that's why I haven't wanted people haven't wanted to adjust,
and he's like good to adjust, Like he's made.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
It work, is he not?

Speaker 1 (35:23):
There has to be some I mean, you know, he
probably used to not take Mike Johnson's calls right away,
right like he was the dean of the delegation, and
you know this young Mike Johnson. He might have screened
Mike Johnson's calls. He probably wouldn't admit if he did that,
but my guess is he might have at first. And
now he's got a uh, you know, Mike Johnson has

(35:46):
the job that we know Scalice would love to have.

Speaker 6 (35:48):
And also the job that Steves Cleve did try to
get He tried, and he was blocked by the Freedom
Colocks and Jordan Allies and that was I mean, I
remember people asking him basically when this happened, it was like,
you were supposed to be the speaker for Louisiana and
now you're like, you're having to hand off to this
other eye. And I mean, he would never admit it,

(36:10):
but you definitely know there is They're really close. I mean,
John Sisclise are close.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
Now.

Speaker 6 (36:14):
They were really tight, very different relationship than him McCarthy had,
and but you you could see that he was definitely disappointed,
like he that was supposed to be his speakership. He
was the majority leader, he was next in line, and
he was blocked. I mean, there was stuff that he
just couldn't get around. But the ability that he's been
able to stay leadership for this long is remarkable. It's

(36:38):
especially through an assassination attempt, through cancer, through two Trump
presidencies when and through an ever changing conservative faction in
the House.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
It's wild how.

Speaker 6 (36:52):
He's been able to kind of he might he might
have been blocked for me a speaker, but he was
also like one of four people that are blocked be
a speaker. So wasn't not that that was unique to hand.
Nobody would have been was perfect until Mike Johnson. And
so it's just it's you definitely do sense that there
is probably some disappoinment because that's the job he's always wanted,
you know. But him and Mike Johnson are very close.
They they hold a relationship that is really good.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Kate, I'm curious given your experience now covering a decade
of Trump at the variety of locations that you covered him.
We're all sitting here. I think this time is different.
We've had these Trump dips below and and I think
we're all a little you know, there's nobody left that

(37:40):
hasn't predicted incorrectly the demise of Donald Trump. Okay, over
the last twenty five years of his of his public life.
You know, that's it for Trump. You know, the TV
star is dead, and that's it for Trump, the casino guy, right,
you know, he's the master of reinvention, He's the master of, frankly,
always being counted out a little bit too soon. But

(38:02):
this time feels different because part of it, I think
is we're impacting a Trump fatigue. But what's your sense,
and is you know, what's the similarity to twenty seventeen
twenty eighteen, and what make what if it is different?

Speaker 2 (38:16):
What do you think it's different?

Speaker 4 (38:20):
I mean, the biggest difference between twenty seventeen and twenty
eighteen is twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen there were like
norms within the administration that they were still adhering to.
I think when they came back into When Trump came
back into office, it's very purposeful, like we are going
to enact our agenda. I mean, the people he had

(38:42):
around him in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen were all
pretty establishment Republicans who were there who said, you know,
we know how to run a White House, like think
about John Kelly, Like these are people who've been in
DC and doing it a long time. And Trump this
time was like, no, we're not doing that. We are

(39:03):
going to bring We're going to have the people around
me that are loyal above all else, the trust you
know that I trust above all else, and we are
going to do what I Donald Trump and they want
to do. And so that to me, I look, I
am out of the prediction business. I mean prediction one time,

(39:23):
a very long time ago, and I shall never do
it again, because I was very fond.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
What was the prediction that.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Eric Cancer would not lose his primary?

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, well that's right, you never that.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, I don't do that anymore. And uh so you know,
I I just it is. It is hard for me
when I do go up to the hill, when I
am in Washington and talking to republics, like, I don't
see any fatigue really from them, Like I mean, people

(40:01):
are just keep rolling like it like there is whatever,
whatever scandal, whatever news story, whatever is happening, and there
there is always seems to be a way out.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
For people, you know, stay rationale. I'm here, stay.

Speaker 4 (40:21):
And that is so I so I am not I
don't see it in the in the party. And I
think that you know, the elections next year will tell
us more. But again, don't need prediction.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
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(42:22):
I'm curious of your experience because I this is something
that I think is going to make this midterm unique.
Is our fragmentedy information ecosystem. If you don't want to
hear bad news for your side, whatever your side is.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
You can avoid it.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
You know, you can feel better about how things going
if you have a certain newsfeed and or a certain
information feed. Can you sense which members sort of are
more fully informed, see you at a three hundred and
sixty degrees of the information ecosystem versus those that frankly
maybe live in a curated world.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Oh definitely.

Speaker 6 (42:55):
I mean I was talking. It's a lot of times
the members who have been there for a while and
that I have been here free Trump and know what
it's been like for ten twenty years. At some points,
they're the ones that are much more open eye to
this situation, like this is not fun, this is not good,
this is not We're gonna lose. I talked to a
member today where Mike Johnson was in conference. He was

(43:19):
basically trying to be like, oh, Republicans, we're not just
gonna keep it, We're gonna grow it, Like we have
perfect ability to grow it. Grabbed a veteran member. Afterwards,
they told me they're like, yeah, and I thought I
was going to date the prom queen in high school,
but like, we don't always get what we want, and
that was their exact quote, and I was so they're
much more being like this is terrible, like.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Interesting, But you see a really a real dividing line
between those that basically that were there before twenty sixteen
and those that it got elected during Trump's during Trump's.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
One hundred percent because they these younger members I would
even say young younger in the amount of time they've
been in Congress. Rather they they don't know they think
Trump can is the only figure the public bard like
he could do no wrong. There are type of people
that came up and like, if you ran for Congress
as a Republican for a first time at post Trump,
you're running for Trump. You're not running like you're running

(44:09):
because you say something in Trump and there's really and
the only way to win was to run towards Trump.
You cann't really run make your own really republican lane.
So those members are feel more of a sense of oh, like,
he'll always find a way to make this right. He'll
find a way to say that, like, oh, it might
be terrible right now, but we're still gonna be okay.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Where is it?

Speaker 1 (44:30):
The same dividing line among those who lament the lack
of that Congress has given away too much authority to
the presidency that that was also that that divide is
between sort of the newbies and the veterans.

Speaker 6 (44:45):
Oh, definitely, because I don't think newbies really know what
it was like when Congress actually had its full power,
like when they could stand up. I mean, they don't
know what it was like before when Congress was like
if they're actually passing appropriations, built, they're funding the government,
they're doing this, like they don't fully remember what is
like one of these older members who have like, oh,

(45:05):
like I remember, like Conngress us actually like we stand
up to a president if we disagreed with it, like.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
And we still here's the irony to that the era
they're talking about. Those of us that covered that era
would say this is kind of a weak Congress. They're
seeding too much power to the presidency.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
So I mean it is.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Sort of amusing to me because this has been a
forty year I'd argue a forty year phenomenon that started
with the Reagan White House sort of usurping more and
more power, and this has been a consistent thing. Presidents
never give power back to Congress. I don't care what
body they are.

Speaker 6 (45:34):
I remember I read a good book, The Admission of
the Power, about Jim Wright, and it's a great about
how he was. I think he was the last speaker
to really fully be like, no, like the House, I
am equal to the president.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
I'm going to use this power to do what I
need to do.

Speaker 6 (45:52):
And that's what he did. He literally saw himself as
like equal to the president. He said he was taking
leaders with foreign leaders like he was doing it as
thing like and I feel like reading that and then
looking at today, I'm like, Mike Johns would never he
would never try to go against I mean, even like
Ken McCarthy and johnsonderbyne like even to the point they

(46:13):
were like, oh that's that's an executive issue, that's not
a legislative issue. Like even in opposite parties, that would
never really happen because they would be like, oh, that's
not our issue, where before under him, right, he was like,
oh there's an issue, Like I'm going to make it
a legislative issue, like it's going to be my thing.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
And you don't just don't see that anymore.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
No, I'm I think you know, it's inevitable we'll have another.
You know, look, we if you look at things with
a really long lens, we've had cycles of weak congresses.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Versus strong congresses, and I think.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
A period of a stronger legislative branch, particularly if we
have to continue with a series of one term presidents,
he is going to be inevitable. We've had three in
a row, and the last time we had that was
over one hundred years ago. So in that sense, Kate,
if there's another difference between twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen
and today, it's on the democratic side. There was confidence

(47:07):
and confidence associated both words were associated with the democratic
leadership Cerca. Twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen. Those are not
two words you would hear to describe the democratic leadership
of today. How how much of a problem could that
end up being for Democrats as they even as the

(47:28):
political environment is pretty good if you're the party not
in the White House.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
Yeah, I mean, I it is funny to watch them.
They always get in their own way, right, Like it's like, oh,
you caught the ball, and then you fumble and caught
the ball and then you fumble. Nancy Pelosi, I think
even her biggest critics would say she she counted every
single vote, She knew how to get something that she

(47:59):
wanted done done, and just had this you know, armor
around her where she just did not let that the
infighting truly like trickle in, and it does not seem
that current Democratic leadership has has got that figured out

(48:21):
at this point. Reese and I were in New Hampshire
a little while ago to see some senator shortly after
the government reopened, some people who may or may not
be thinking about running for a president in twenty twenty eight.
Senator Chris Murphy, Senator Corey Booker, who both you know,

(48:42):
had pretty like tough things to say about their leadership,
and Senator Chuck Schumer, which is just I don't think
is something you saw. I mean, people were obviously very
critical of Harry Reid but it just it was it
was different. You know, people didn't Harry Reid was still
able to keep folks together and get done what he

(49:06):
needed to get done. And the you know, the overwhelming
criticism of Schuber post shut down was that he just
let he you know, he let this coalition dissolve and
for what. At the end of the day, it was
like they had kept the government shut down and for what.
So I'll be really interested to see how how the

(49:27):
party runs, you know. I think this idea that they
can run on economy and affordability like Trump did in
twenty four and as we saw in the November elections,
if they can keep on that message, maybe we'll see.
But there's a lot of noise out there, especially on
the far left, and it is very hard for the party,

(49:49):
I think, to tune that out.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Reese, what do you sense of the nervousness among you know,
do Democrats feel bullish or are they always looking over
their left shoulder early that you're Democrats that you talked to.

Speaker 6 (50:03):
I think from talk to them, they definitely feel bullish
going into the midterms, but they there's just a sense
that there's never gonna like the leader. They don't really
have full like like clearly Nancy Pelosi is what the leader,
as to her point of the Decocrat party, and they don't
really have a leader like Republicans going into midterms, even

(50:26):
when they're down, they're like, oh, Trump's our get like
Trump's gonna endorse something especial.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (50:31):
Where I mean my colleague Alex Roady wrote about this, Well,
it's about Senate races where they don't really have a
forced clear primaries. They don't have a force to help
get the right candidate elected. Where Steve Dain's last cycle,
the former NRSC chairman was like, we have our candidate,
that's the guy who can win, and we're gonna just

(50:52):
have Trump endorse these people to then help our field.
Like they could put up a candidate in Michigan who
might not be able to be microaders. I put up
a candidate made who can't beat Susan Collins, and they
had these Well they've cleared some fields, but I mean
not in Texas.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
There's possiblity jam.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Right Roy Cooper cleared a field.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
I don't believe anybody that Chuck Schumer did nothing to
clear that field, Shared Brown. There's no he by the way,
they didn't even clear that field, right shared Brown's the
heavy favorite, but it didn't scare off one challenger with
a couple of bucks, you know.

Speaker 6 (51:28):
And then Texas, I mean they have James Lorigo and
then jam Crockett might get it, and that would also
be a mess for them. So there's also this sense
of like what should be like, Oh, we're gonna win it.
It's like, dang, like, are you gonna well, how's it
gonna work in the city, we can nominate the row candidate.
Same in the House, I mean the redistrict you stuff
is definitely getting to them.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Do they accept the premise. Do Democrats accept the premise
that they can't win the mid terms without winning both
the House and the Senate.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
I don't think they do.

Speaker 6 (51:59):
I think the focusing I think that you're like, oh,
if we win the House were good, they could just
like hinder.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
A little bit.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah. That that to me is that's a loser mentality.
That's not a when it.

Speaker 6 (52:09):
Is hard to definitely the Senate is definitely significantly harder,
but means it's more seats.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I just did this.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
I just did a bunch of research on this. We've
had We've had thirty three midterms since eighteen ninety four,
which was the first time the Out Party swept the
House and the Senate in the midterm, and in eighteen
of the twenty one times that the Out Party in
those thirty three elections gained Senate seats, Eighteen of the

(52:38):
twenty one times that the Outparty gained Senate seats they
gained four or more Senate seats. So in theory, picking
up four Senate seats is sort of the norm. If
that party picks up most of the time, it is
four or more. So the idea that they viewed that
as a reach right now, I think is a real

(52:58):
indictment of the fact that they're no longer a national
party because they just can't compete in literally a third
of the country.

Speaker 6 (53:06):
And then there also is concerned, I mean even about
states that should be safe New Hampshire with Johnson New
New getting in, like they're gonna have to spend money
there when usually I mean, if it was just Scott
Brown that would have the National Party would not have.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Had to spent some money.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
They might have to spend some I think people under
estimate Scott New Hampshire's a quirky state.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
It is.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
You know, it's it's you know, it's really smart people
pissed off at how cold it is, right Like, it's
just you know, it's just you know, you never know,
very dark winter.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
That was all your hotline popped out there check just
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
I just well, I'm just vomiting my my data that
I just sort of accumulated because I was obsessed with this.
How many times has there been an actual clean suite
where the outparty won both the House in the Senate.
It's actually, I only happened six times since the since
the Republican Party became one of the two major parties. Ironically,

(53:59):
the first time at ever happened is the first time
it was for Grover Cleveland's presidency, in the second mid
term of his second non consecutive term. I'm not saying
history repeats itself, but.

Speaker 6 (54:13):
But I think you also been a difficulty for Democrats
that I'm hearing a lot is that there's no cohesion
of message. Like the shutdown I think really amplified that
where there were some people, I mean, they're just and
even if there is a message, they don't really fight
to push forward with it, like the message was, oh,
it's a Republican shutdown, but like, we're not going to
open it back up until we get healthcare.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Like it was just this.

Speaker 6 (54:37):
Democrats are really upset about how there wasn't fac because it.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Wasn't about healthcare. But they couldn't say what it was
really about because the public didn't. You know, it was
really about not trust that the executive in a weird way,
it was an old fashioned Hey, the executive branch doesn't
respect the legislative branch. We can't trust them to the
laws that we pass. They won't try to nullify. But
your good luck selling that message.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
It's hard.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
I don't know if anyone on Capitol Hill really feels
like a winner right now. I don't know, like vibe up.
There is so bad people.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
I've heard it's super bad. And I mean, you know,
you hear the anecdotes. I mean that people are demoralized.
That should I mean, look, I assume we're going to
see two to three retirements a week for the next
six weeks. And it feels especially if, like I said,
we're taping before the Tennessee special. If you know, I
assume Republicans hang on and went narrowly win it. But

(55:32):
if an earthquake happens, A retirement earthquake could happen.

Speaker 6 (55:37):
Yeah, I don't necessarily think that there'll be like immediate
resignations like MTG, But I do think to your point
that people are just gonna be like I don't want it,
probably especially if they're like I don't want to be
in the minority, Like it's miserable in the majority, this
will be even more miserable to the minority.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
I'm going to just leave, right and it's gonna.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
Be some really interested members who say, like being in
the minority is like slightly more fun because you don't
really have to like do any that, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
You don't really have to do you don't do anything.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
You don't do anything, like you just show up and
yell a little bit, and you don't actually have to
be responsible for for policies in the same way. Obviously,
obviously they you know, they want to win the majority.
But I just think I think that like the as
you said, the you know, getting getting cohesion or talking

(56:23):
like a winner, that there is none of that, there's
like none of that feeling anymore among any like they
I don't feel like they're even trying necessarily, you know,
like Kristin Jilbrand. Kristen Jilbrand is the is the DSCC chair?

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Right?

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Is that correct?

Speaker 1 (56:41):
How about the fact that no, it is, but I
do the same thing, Kate, Uh, it's it is Kirsten
Jilibrand because talk about somebody who has chosen to have
the in an anonymous footprint, like you know, it's like
she does not want to be seen.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
She does not.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
It's a strange thing. I'm very curious about a relationship
with Schumer. I'm sure it's okay, but I'm usually senators
from the same state, from the same party, you know,
the relationships, it's never usually great. Weirdly, the relationships are
better when it's when it's from opposite parties. Sometimes unless
you're Ron Johnson and Tamy Baldwin, but you get along

(57:18):
with Ron Johnson, right.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
But it is.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
It's a it's been really strange watching this DSCC. They
are I think the argument they would make, Kate is, Hey,
everybody hates the establishment, so we don't want to we
don't want to stick our head up and become a target.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Well, then why I pick an establishment senator to run
the DSCC. You know, it's bizarre to me. Because I
feel like, you know, previously previous DSCC chairs twenty twenty
fourteen and twenty eighty, some of the other midterms I've covered,
like there's briefit. You know, there's briefings, they're they're doing things,

(57:57):
they're out there, they're talking, and I just I.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Don't feel well, Rece.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
I was just going to say, do you think if
you've got a question about a Senate race, do you
go to Schumer's office or jail a Brand's office.

Speaker 6 (58:08):
I go to consultants. I'm like, this is like a
lot of times the DS. I'm gonna be honest, like
I found it. I find that the DS is not
super responsive all the time, like and I think that also,
like if I wanted to know something specific about the
Senate race, like will either go to the candidates or

(58:30):
people in the state there who are like maybe not
necessarily working for a candidate, but might be working for
the state party or might just be a consultant there.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
That's more where I focus.

Speaker 6 (58:39):
And I think that it's been it's just been difficult,
Like there there's a lot like the NRSC has been
hosting briefings and they've been like there's at least been
some more conversation and communication. It's I will say the
D trip is really good. I'm get into the D
trip is really communicated. So the NRCC, but the DS
I've just found to be not like just I just

(59:03):
I don't know, I just has been kind of a
more of a difficult relationship. And I don't know, maybe
that's on me, maybe I'm not doing pretty my best
foot for.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Well, we're not alone.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
It's just that they just don't they don't you get
the sense that that they're there keeping their head down
because there's this awkward conversation happening in some of the
Senate primaries where there's where supporting Schumer is a litmus
test and which is gonna put the DS? And you know,
so my guess is there almost afraid to go on
the record about any Senate Democratic candidate.

Speaker 6 (59:33):
Yeah, and then also like their whole they completely true.
And there's also I mean, I remember they Jill brand
I believe, was saying literally on the record that oh,
we're not going to get involved in the main primary,
We're gonna let this play out. And then I reported
and I'm like, you have a joint fundraising committee with
with Jana Mills like this is and then like I

(59:53):
tweeted that out, I'm like, this is a JFC with
Jana Mills and the d SEC, Like I don't know how.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Much more clearly it could be. And then and that later.

Speaker 6 (01:00:01):
Was like, oh, like that's not really an endorsement, like
it is one hundred endorsement if you're joint fundraising with her.
And so there's just like they want to help their candidates.
But at the same time that ask.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
You this race, did they start one with Grant with
Plattener yet or not?

Speaker 6 (01:00:16):
They did not starve over the Grant platter I don't
think that's in the cards.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 6 (01:00:20):
And same thing in like Michigan, like they're very much
behind Hailey Stevens, but it's like they don't want to
publicly put all their weight behind her.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Well she looks, I yeah, I mean talk about a
candidate that you can tell is in baseball, there's an
expression having It was an old expression called rabbit ears,
and it was for baseball players who who were too
tuned into what the people in the crowd were saying
and not focused enough on the game. Haley Stevens strikes
me as a candidate that's got rabbitt he or she

(01:00:49):
reads every bad press clipping she gets and is constantly
fearing she's got She's got the look of a candidate
running scared and and she wants to recreate the Slocktin campaign.
And it's not going to happen this cycle. It's just
a different cycle. And and I could feel the pressure
seems to be getting durned. I think the question now
is at elside, she looks like a candidate that that's

(01:01:12):
running nervous, and nervous candidates don't win.

Speaker 6 (01:01:14):
And my colleagues Altrody and Danielle Diaz wrote a good
story about Haley Steve Is about how the party is
actually like dang, do we push for the right person?

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Like this is like it had been better off with McMorrow.
But the problem is that's the thing. Is it a
scarlet letter if you get the party's endorsement, right, is
it automatically sending the wrong message which is a really
troubling place for the for the brand of the party
to be. Let me get you both out of here
on the following and Kate, I'll start with you, and

(01:01:44):
that is give me a couple of names that people
don't know, right, now that you think will be household
names in Washington a year from now. You know, maybe
it's a member of Congress, maybe it's a uh, you know,
a candidate for Congress, but somebody that that may become
more of a household name. You know that In a
similar question for you Rees, but really focused on your

(01:02:07):
being on Capitol Hill because I think sometimes the so
called backbenchers, right, you know, Mike Johnson was a backbencher
until he wasn't, right, like, and I think that's we
know this happens. So give me a couple of names,
Kate and Reese. I want to get you out of
there on the same question.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Yeah, and I don't know, like like DC household names, but.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
I mean outside of it, right that that actually you
know that let's put it in another way that either
the Ruthless guys or the Pod Save America guys are
going to be obsessing over this person a year from
now and right now, this person wouldn't be on either
of their.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Radars, right. They're to me, they're the sort of.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
The partisan zeitgeist guys, right, you know, whatever the zeitgeist
of the left or the zeitgeist of the right is.
They kind of both sort of seem to tune their
podcasts into that, right, So.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
I'll shout out to someone who's an upcoming guest on
the on Notice podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
That's a smart way to do it, promoting.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Becca Balance from Vermont. She's a at large member from Vermont.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
She utter right, right, this is she?

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
She is?

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
She took yeah, well she's seat And a lot of
people see her as sort of the heir apparent to
Bernie Sanders. If Bernie does retire, will she take up
his mantle? You know, they sort of see her as
as just a potential successor. And I thought Reese's conversation
with her was fascinating. So hope people listen to that

(01:03:39):
one and tune in, and so I think she'll she's
definitely on the radar. And then someone who's a little
more I think already on some people's radars, is another
upcoming Unnotice Gus Marie Glusen can't peress. I just fine
to be just were.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
This close to where MGP is going to mean something
to people?

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Right, We're not quite there, right, Marie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Glusen camp Perez. But the exactly or or.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
Or or MTG right, you know, so or STP, which
for Nascar fans, they would know Reese over to you
two in.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
The Senate, two in the House. The Senate.

Speaker 6 (01:04:22):
I'm going to go Rubin Diego, who freshman Democratic Center
from Arizona.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
You think his star is only going to get brighter
over them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
I think it's only going to grow.

Speaker 6 (01:04:30):
He is really kind of making a name for himself
in the Senate, both in foreign policy realm and then
also with the defense video that Trump he seems to.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Be seeking it out right, He's seeking out action.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Yeah, he loves it, he loves it.

Speaker 6 (01:04:43):
And then also I think Bernie Marino from Ohio, who
be shared Brown is I think he just has again
like a good foreign policist, but also like a political
actionen that is catching the eye of a lot of people.
And he I think that these two freshmen are definitely
not household names by any stress imagination. But I mean,
you don't be Sharon Brown and not have some kind

(01:05:06):
of skill and stay with Rumaguego. I mean, he beat
Kerry Lake, who wasn't necessarily the hardest candidate to be,
but there was still I mean Trump on Arizona that
year and or guessing last year.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
You know the way you described Marino and I've actually
heard it. It sounds like he's a future in r
SC chair.

Speaker 6 (01:05:22):
I think that, I mean, always a possibility. He has
this just this real political wit about him and he.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
And let's be honest, he's a car salesman and I
and I mean this in the in the best way
to describe it. You know, he knows how to talk,
he knows how to community exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:05:36):
And then on the house, I'm gonna say, I think
someone who's definitely not a household name, but I would
keeping out is Brian jack. He's Trump's former political director
in the White House. He is He also worked for
Ken McCarthy for as a political director prior to running,
and he is he doesn't do a lot of TV hits.
He's not a big media guy. But there was even
a rumor, I mean, when Richard Hudson was considering whether

(01:05:58):
to try to go for EENC chairman or go for.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
An RCC his name was thrown out.

Speaker 6 (01:06:02):
He hadn't been sworn in yet as a possible NRCC
chairman as a freshman, which obviously that I mean Hudson
decided to go and the route of saying in RCC chairman. Uh,
but yeah, Brian Jack is definitely someone who is really
just a great operator. McCarthy loves him Trump. He's he
has a really close relationship with Trump.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
And to have both. Yeah, he's not going to be.

Speaker 6 (01:06:25):
Yeah, you're not gonna se him what Fox News all
the time. But I mean a lot of times most
the best operator in the house are the people that
you don't necessarily see all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Well that's that's that's why I was asking you guys,
because I that's all right. It's the old cliche the
show horse versus the workhorse exactly. You know, you have
those that think just showing up on Fox News is
the job right on others or ms you know others, And.

Speaker 6 (01:06:50):
I think someone who is like a perfect example of this.
I mean Patrick mckenrick. He went to Congress being like
I'm gonna be a show horse, got some talking to
became a workhorse and speaker pro temp for three weeks.
Like he really reinvented himself in that sense.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
But like I enjoy referring to him as mister speaker.
I see him quite a bit these days. It's uh, yeah,
it's ah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
I see him.

Speaker 6 (01:07:11):
His kids go to school right by my house. I
always see him walking his kids. I still say, mister Speaker,
I think it pisses him off to nowhen.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Oh so weirdly, I think he kind of I think
he realized.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I love that his Speaker's portrait
is what a third of the size, right, I mean,
I just think they've.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
All had a little fun, Reese.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
How can people follow you in your work and find
your work if they're not finding another notice web page?
Can they sign up for email alerts or Twitter feeds?

Speaker 6 (01:07:39):
So definitely the Notice newsletter I'd sign up for that.
There's a lot of good all of our stories going there.
I mean, follow me on Twitter x and then also
subscribe to the Unnoticed podcast on Spotify.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
There.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
You guys, I've gotten used to saying.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Now you gotta say like and subscribe, like and subscribe.
There's no share in that, Kate. Where can people find
your work in you?

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
Yeah, I'm on exit at Kate, No, Sarah, And mostly
though I'm like editing behind the scenes, so my bylines
are not always out there, but I'm usually out there
promoting the great work of notice reporters. So yeah, newsletter
podcasts join us.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I'm I'm a huge fan, I'm a huge advocate, and
I hope, I hope if I can give you a
couple more subscribers, a couple more email newsletter subscribers.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Out of this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
So I appreciate it. Thanks for I'm so glad of
the work you guys are doing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
It's it's a reminder there's always some fresh eyes and
fresh energy we.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Can bring to the to the Washington Press Corp. And
you guys are doing both.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
So thank you, thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
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Interview Only w/ Reese Gorman & Kate Nocera - Capitol Hill Is A MESS & The Vibes Are LOW

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Interview Only w/ Reese Gorman & Kate Nocera - Capitol Hill Is A MESS & The Vibes Are LOW