In this episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz, Senator Ted Cruz and Ben Ferguson continue their sit-down interview with Elon Musk from the White House. In Part 2 of this groundbreaking conversation, Musk dives deep into the future of humanity—from setting foot on Mars to the game-changing technology needed for a self-sustaining civilization beyond Earth.
The discussion spans everything from the search for alien life and SpaceX’s journey to revolutionize space travel to Musk’s philosophy on innovation, his views on patents, and his work ethic. Don’t miss it!
Be sure to follow and subscribe to Verdict with Ted Cruz wherever you get your podcasts. And don’t forget to follow the show on social media so you never miss a moment!
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@VerdictwithTedCruz/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/verdictwithtedcruz
X: https://x.com/benfergusonshow
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
After more than a year of war, tear and pain
in Israel, the need for security essentials and support for
first responders is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire.
Israel must be prepared for the next attack, wherever it
may come from. As Israel is surrounded by enemies on
all sides. That is where the International Fellowship of Christians
(00:20):
and Jews and you come in. They are the ones
that help give the support that is needed and the
people of Israel need now more than ever before, life
saving security essentials, and your gift today will help save
lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles and ambulances,
firefighting equipment, flat jackets and bulletproof vests, and so much more.
(00:42):
Your generous donation today will help ensure the people of
Israel are safe and secure in the days to come.
So give a gift to bless Israel and her people
by visiting support IFCJ dot org. That's one word support
IFCJ dot org or call eight to eight four eight
eight IFCJ that's eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ
(01:05):
eight and eight four eight eight four three two five
or support IFCJ dot org. Welcome and his Verdict with Center,
Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson. With You and Today is part
two of our exclusive conversation with Elon Musk, the entrepreneur
and innovator who is transforming industries and is dismantling government waste,
fraud and abuse With Doge must Relentless pursuit of technology
(01:29):
and space exploration continues to capture the world's imagination. In
this episode, we unravel the thoughts and aspirations of a
man who defies conventional boundaries, pushing humanity towards new horizons.
So join us in the White House as we continue
to explore the riveting journey of Elon Musk, a modern
day pioneer whose revolutionary ideas are set to redefine tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Let me start with a question. You know a lot
about what year does man first set foot on Mars.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I think the soonest would be twenty nine, twenty nine, yes,
and I don't think it's more than two to four
years beyond that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And that's not an unman's that's a human being putting
his foot on the surface.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yes, best case would be twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And what do you put the odds of finding either
alien life or evidence of alien life.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I don't think we're going to find aliens, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But do we find ruins? Do we find remnants?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
We may we may find the ruins of a long
dead alien civilization, that's possible. And we may find subterranean
microbial life, that's possible.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
All right. If Man lands on Mars in twenty nine,
how soon after that do you land on Mars?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
It remains to be seen. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
The important thing is that are we build a self
sustaining city on Mars as quickly as possible. The key
threshold is when that city can continue to grow, continue
to prosper even when the supply ships from Earth stop coming.
(03:13):
At that point, even if something would happen on Earth,
it might might It might not be World War three,
but it might be that a bad virus.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah, it might not be anything. For those things.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
It's like like like say, civilization, you could die with
a bang or a whimper. It maybe that civilization dies
with a whimper rather than a bang or and simply
loses the ability to send ships to Mars. But so
you absoenly need Mars to become self sustaining and be
able to grow by itself before the resupply ships from
Earth stopped coming. That That is the critical a civilizational
(03:49):
threshold beyond which the probable life span of civilization is
much greater.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And how close are we technologically to be able to
do that, to have a self sustaining settlement on the
surface of Mars.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I think it can be done in twenty years, But.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It would take twenty years, so we're not in twenty nine.
We're not there. What are we missing? What are the
big technologies?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
We don't have a few people running around the surface
in a hostile environment is not going to make it
self sustaining. So you're going to need on the order
of a million people, maybe a million tons of cargo.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So but you think we could have a million people
on Mars in twenty years? Yes, And what's the technology
we're missing right now? When you think about a million
people on Mars, do we have the ability to get water,
to get food, to keep them safe? I mean, what
do we need to make that happen?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, you need to recreate the entire base of industry
of Earth. So you know, we're here at the top
of a massive permit of industry that starts with mining
a bas array of materials, those materials going through hundreds
of steps of refinements. We grow food, obviously, we grow trees,
(05:04):
we make things out of the trees. There's you know,
you've got to You've got to build all that on Mars,
and Mars is a hostile environment. It's you know, it
sometimes gets above zero on a warm summer day near
the equator on Mars.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Meanly it's quite cold.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
How do you prep for that?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well, in the beginning, on Mars.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You have to have a life support habitation module right
like you need You can't just live outdoors.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
You can't breathe the air like.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
A dome you think is likely?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Yeah, glass domes type of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Have you identified a location on Mars that is likely
to be ideal for a habitat?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
What might be Arcadia planet? Here is one of the
one of the good options. That's one of my daughters
is named Arcadia after.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That, and what makes that attractive.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
My other son's little name is uh Ari's Mars.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
You've been thinking about this for a long time. If
you're name and your kids around it.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
My eldest kid is little name is essentially Mars.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
When did you get the dream?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Like, I mean, it's twenty two to twenty one. Soon
this is decades old.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, dream So like when you were ten, did you
look up and say I'm going to Mars?
Speaker 4 (06:22):
No? No.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I read a lot of science fiction books and program computers.
But the first, finally off, the first video game that
I sold was a space video game called Blastar. Maybe
I spoiled this way.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
How do you do? How do you become Elon Musk? Look,
you're obviously smart as hell, but but there are lots
there are a lot of smart people that don't do
swat and you've managed everything you've touched has been an
extraordinary success. Uh yeah, yeah, Look, I mean that's just
objectively right. So what has led to that? Because there
(07:00):
are other smart people that that's not true, and they
gaze at their navel and they don't do anything. So
what what do you do differently that makes you so effective?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Well? I suppose I have a philosophy of curiosity.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I want to find out the nature of the universe,
understand the universe, and in order to do that, we
have to travel to other planets, see other star systems,
maybe other galaxies, find perhaps other alien civilizations, or at
least the remnants of alien civilizations, gain a better understanding
(07:35):
of worse it's universe going ready to come from and
what questions do we not yet know to ask about
the answer that is the universe.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So let's go back twenty five years, late nineties. You're
at PayPal. How do you turn PayPal into the success
it was, which which then helped launch you to the
next one? In the next one.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, So I studied physics and economics and college she's
a good nation for understanding how the economy works and
how reality works. And then I was going to do
a PhD at Stanford in advanced ultra capacitors actually as
(08:16):
a potential means of energy storage for electric transport. Put
that on hold to start an internet company. Essentially came
to the conclusion that the Internet was one of those
rare things and I could either watch it happen while
a grad student or participated. And I figured, I've always
(08:38):
go back to grad school. You know, grad school is
going to be kind of the same. But I couldn't
rather thought of just watching the Internet happen, So I
wanted to be a part of building it. So I
created an Internet Internet company. We did the first maps, directions,
yellow pages, white pages on the Internet. I actually wrote
the first version of Suffered just by myself and ninety
(09:00):
five and we ended up selling that to Compact Texas company.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I guess yea.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
For about three hundred million dollars in cash about four
years after I graduated.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
So I should say just to preface that I graduated
with about one hundred thousand dollars a student debt. So
it wasn't yeah, you and me both yeah, yeah, right,
I know.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And when I first arrived in North America, I arrived
with twenty five hundred dollars, a bag of books and
a bag of clothes.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
All right, So you sell the company for three hundred million,
How much does that change your life?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I got twenty one million dollars black jack, and but
I wanted to do more on the internet. So started
a company called x dot com, which morch were a
company called Confinity, which is Peter Thiel and Max Leptun yep,
and we're combined. Company was actually at first little called
(10:02):
x dot com, but we later later changed the name
of the company to PayPal. Because of all the name changes,
it's kind of confusing. But the company that people know
is know as PayPal today. Was actually I felt those
in corporation documents for that company interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, and as you know, Peter Tiel and I were
buddies back in the mid nineties before he went and
did any of this, but you know, I became friends
with him when he was a corporate lawyer in New
York and just sort of a young libertarian with with
a lot of dreams. So it's been a heck of
a journey.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, And now Peter was involved in a coup. You know,
we had a little sort of knifing in the Senate
situation where you know that they did cooon met at PayPal.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I kind of now, did you all make peace after that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
I mean I was doing a lot of sort of
risky moves that I think ultimately would have been successful.
But I then went on a two week trip which
was a dual money raising trip and honeymoon, and said
not done my honeymoon earlier in the year. So it's
raising money while doing doing Hollywood honeymoon. But I was
(11:15):
kind of awake.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Did that go over by the way it worked?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It worked?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
There, you go, kind of worked. I raised money, yeah, yeah,
and we had honeymoon there you go.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So yeah, but you don't want to be away from
the battle when things are scary. So I was not
there to assuage the concerns of the troops. And anyway,
we're passed things up. And I have been friends nonetheless,
(11:45):
and yeah, these days all stay at his house and stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
So I was super friends. And he's also invested in
most of my companies.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
All right, So two thousand and two you start SpaceX, Like,
how do you start a rocket company? Like what's the
first day where you're like, I want to make rockets
and I want to go to Mars? Like what do
you do on day one?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
So I think you have to start with a some
sort of philosophical premise in order to have in order
for the in order to be in order to be
highly motivated, you have to have some.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Philosophical foundation. In my case, it was.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
That that we want to expand the scale, the scope
and scale of consciousness.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
To better understand the nature of the universe.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
And in order to expand scale, expand consciousness, we need
to go beyond one planet. If for one planet there's
there's too much risk, you know, hopefully Earth civilization prosperous
very far into the future.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
But it may not.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
There's always some risk that we are we self annihilate
through nuclear war, or that there's a big meter that
takes us out like the dinosaurs. Ye, there's always some
risk if all your eggs are in one bast good.
So it's going to be better if we're a multiplanet species.
And then once we're a multiplanet species, that the next
step would be to be a multi stellar and have
(13:09):
a civilization among on many different star systems. So in
two thousand and one, I didn't think that I could.
I didn't think I could sell a rocket company. So
I thought I'd take some of the money from PayPal.
In that case, I think was about one hundred and
eighty million dollars after tax, something like that, And I thought,
(13:32):
you know, I don't need a hundred and eighty million dollars,
so I'll spend a bunch of it on a philanthropic
Mars mission to get the public excited about going back
to Mars. We're going to Mars, I should say, yeah,
Mars was always going to be the destination after the Moon.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
In fact, if you told people in nineteen sixty nine
that it would be twenty twenty five and we've not
even gone back to the Moon, let alone it's targetable leave,
let alone Mars. They'd be like what happened in the
civilization collapse? Top Yeah, like they would be incomprehensible that
we've not been to Mars by now, if you told
people this after landing on the Moon in sixty nine.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Why do you think in fifty years America never went
back to the moon.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Well, we destroyed the Saturn five rocket that was that
could take people to the Moon, and had the Space Shuttle,
which could only go to lowth orbit, and then there
really hasn't been anything to replace any No, no vehicle
has been made since then that can go to the
Moon or to Mars until the SpaceX Starship rocket. Yeah,
(14:38):
so you can't go to Mars if you don't have
the ride.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So I remember you and I first met in twenty
thirteen when when I was a brand new baby senator. Yeah,
and I was still down in the basement office. They
stick freshman senators in the basement office a kind of
like hazy. Yeah, yeah, say it sounds like there are
one hundred seared offices. But for six months you stay
in the base. You're in your place it's like worrying. Mean,
(15:02):
you know where you're supposed to you now, thirteen years
into it. I think there's a lot of wisdom to
doing that. But you were down in the basement office
and I remember you were coming and sitting down with
SpaceX and at the time, the Air Force was not
letting you all bid to launch satellites, and so you
were coming and saying, look, we got a company. I
think we can do a really good job of this,
and yet we're locked out of this. It's a little
(15:23):
amazing to think the journey SpaceX is gone from then
to now.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yes, it's hard to believe that this is all real
because originally, consistently with my belief that we need to
become a mother planet species, I thought the only way
to do that would be through NASA sou and I
think I thought, well, if I just get the public
excited about Mars, then they'll do admission to Mars. And
(15:50):
so initially my thought was to have to send a
small greenhouse with seeds and dehydrated nutrient gel. Then land
the greenhouse, hydrate the seeds, and you see.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
The sort of money shot.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
The money shot would be green plants on a red background.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I also recently know that money shot has a different
meaning in some other arenas.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
But yeah, story.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But what I'm trying to say is the captivating shot
would be the green plants on a red background, and
then hopefully that would if we did something like that, that
would get the public excited about Mars, that would increase
nasta's budget, and then we could send people to Mars.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Dream was nicey to do this? Yes, not you. No.
The original original plan was.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Literally to take a bunch of the money from PayPal
and I guess, by some people's definition, waste it with
no probit on a nonprofit thing. I wanted to spend
a whole bunch of my money for free to get
NASA's budget to be bigger so we could.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Go to friggin Mars. Right, Wow, that's what I wanted.
So that was the holy Grail, That's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I was like, so, when did you Mars?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
That's what I wanted to know, Well.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
When when did it strike you? Okay, you're going to
have to do this.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
If you will, I'll tell you.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
It gets crazier, all right, It gets crazier so so
that I couldn't afford any of the US rockets because
as you know, the US rockets are way too expensive
for bying lucky rock Lucky rockets are crazy money I
didn't have.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
I didn't even even with one hundred eighty millions. Way
I could have afforded were they back then?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Well, the that with the additional stage to get tomorrows,
it would have been about like eighty million. So technically
I could have afforded one of them, but I wanted
to do too in case one of them didn't work.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Yeah. So and then I didn't have enough money for that.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, And I was sort of prepared to, you know,
I don't know, waste half the money. And I figured
if I had ninety million left, that'd be fine, you know,
but ideally on all of it.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
So I went to Russia twice to try to buy ICBMs.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
How'd that go?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And who do you call?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
The Russian rocket forces?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
They sell ICBMs? Does that work?
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You got to tell us a story that I want
to know who you can buy anything in Russia?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, I like, please walk you down that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I want to know how you made that phone call
and when you get there, how did that work?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
And what do you tell your friends? Yeah, listen, I'm
going to Russian device in ICBMs. I might not return,
you know, in this situation.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Literally, Yeah, So I guess slightly less insane when you
when you understand that the Russians had to demolish a
bunch of their ICBMs because of uh, you know, sult
talks like the peace because basically an agreement between the
United States and Russia to reduce the total number of ICBMs,
(18:46):
Russia was actually obligated to scrap a bunch of their ICBMs.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
So you've took it the very biggest ICBMs.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You could converte those into a rocket at additional stage
and send something to Mars.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So those are big enough with one more stage to
get to Mars.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
To send a small payload to Mars. Yeah, so the
SS eighteen.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So you try to buy CBMs, do you succeed or no?
Or do you figure out you got to build your
own instead.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
They kept raising the price on me, so because I
figured like, look, they're going to throw these things in
scrappy on anyway, should get a really good deal, right,
So the price started out at four million, then the
next conversation there were at eight million. Then the next compsition,
they were like nineteen million, and I'm like, this is
(19:33):
before we signed a contract.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
By the way, was there another bit? Was there another
bid or were you the only one trying to buy them?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I think I don't know if there were other bids,
but they didn't mention any other bits. But I was like, man,
if if the price is increasing this much before the
contract signed, I'm really going to get fleeced.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
After the contract sign So I got pretty frustrated there.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Actually, in some cases we got into like shouting matches
in Moscow. Some guy shouting at me in Russia and
I'm shouting back at.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Him and really badly, you know, I'm like, so you
are all I mean, you're all.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
In Moscow.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Man, I should have recorded that. That would have been one
for them.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
How many days were you there negotiating that first time?
I mean it was just like ongoing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
This this took place.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
These conversations took place over probably six months or so so,
and then the final trip trip there was with the
with was with Mike Reffinue later became as administrator. I
actually realized in the course of this that my original
premise was wrong, that that America actually has plenty of
(20:52):
will to go to Mars, but needs that. It just
needs a way to Mars that is affordable and that
doesn't break the budget.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know, just as you know, we couldn't even get
to the space station. We needed the Russians to get
us to our own space station.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
That was embarrasing.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It really was pitiful.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I'm not sure most Americans know just how much we're
being fleeceed. Like I think they got up to like
ninety million.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Dollars a seat.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah wow, Yeah, well for a seat that custom like ten.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Was predge obviously, but it was the only.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah it was before SpaceX.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Ninety million dollars a seat for a seat that cost
them ten million is high.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Yeah, that's a lot of money. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I want to take a moment to tell you real
quick about an incredible company called Patriot Mobile. And the
reason why I say is incredible is because number one
of the reason why it was started. Patriot Mobile was
started by a group of conservatives that found out where
their money was going when they paid their bill to
Big Mobile, and they said, we've got to stop this
because Big Mobile gets massive donations to democratic causes candidates
(21:54):
and organizations, even organizations that advocate support and pay for abortions.
If you don't want money going there, then you need
to switch. The only Christian conservative wireless provider in the
country with nation wide coverage. I use Patriot Mobile and
I travel all the time. A lot of people say
the number one reason why they don't change. They say
it's just too hard, too difficult, and I don't want
(22:15):
to have bad coverage. None of that's an issue in
twenty twenty four anymore. You literally can change right now
over the phone. All you got to do is call
Patriot Mobile and they can do it over the phone,
and you keep your same cell phone number you have now.
You can keep your same cell phone you have in
your hand right now, and you can upgrade to a
new phone if you want to. But then this is
where the best part happens, the most fun part of switching.
(22:38):
Every month Patriot Mobile. When you pay your bill, they
take about five percent of your bill at no extra
cost to you, and they give it back to conservative
causes that fight for a First and or second Amendment.
They fight for the rights of unborn children, and they
stand and support and advocate and help our wounded warriors.
Our veterans, our first responder, our heroes each and every day.
(23:02):
That is why I love Patriot Mobile and I want
you to make the switch. So go to Patriot Mobile
dot com slash verdict and you are going to get
a free month of service with a promo code verdict.
Or you can call them nine seven to two Patriot.
That's nine seven to two Patriot, nine seven to two Patriot.
(23:24):
Or call them and go online at Patriot Mobile dot
com slash verdict promo code verdict for a free month
of service. Make the switch and make a difference every
time you pay your bill.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So a few months ago you and I were down
in Bokuchika with a president for a starship launch, and
it is incredible what you built in Bocachica. You know,
five years ago it was an empty beach.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
At the southern tip of tex Soundbara.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And it's now a city and a factory where you're
building a rocket ship a month with incredible precision. But
one of the things you said to me when we
were down there that really stood out me is is
is you said your philosophy on intellectual property talk to
lots of CEOs or we fight to guard our I
p and and you had a very different approach. What's
what's your view.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Of I P patents of the week, patterns of for
those that innovation slowly.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I literally do not know anyone else in business who
would say something like that, like like it was a
startling and and and and what Elon said down there
is he said, look this stuff. I assume everyone will
steal everything, but by the time they steal it will
be five generations beyond and it won't matter.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yes, at Tesla, we actually open sourcedal Lite patents. So
we said our patents are anyone can use them for free.
Really yeah, uh. The only wily do patents of Tesla
to to avoid patent.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Trolls causing causing trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
So we'll try to look ahead and say, okay, patent
trolls are going to trial file patterns to blocks and things,
will file patents and then open source to make it free.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I mean, I'm want to say patents for the week. Now.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
There are a few cases, in say with pharmaceuticals, where
it might cost you billion dollars to do a Phase
three human file, but then subsequently the drug is very
cheap to manufacture. So cases there are some in my opinion,
which would massively reduced what can be patented. And and say,
because the whole point of patenting is to maximize innovation,
(25:20):
not inhibit it. And in my opinion, maybe a controversial opinion,
most patents inhibit innovation, they do not help it. But
there are case I want to do one a single
cases like where such as a phase three clinical trial.
It might cost a billion dollars, but then the drugs
thereafter cost a few dollars to manufacture, and if you
(25:41):
can then immediately copy those drugs for a few dollars,
no one will pay for the billion dollars free writer
problem exactly. So you have to address the free writer problem.
But other than that, there should be no patents. The
ideas are easy.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
You want ideas to flow maximum to people, to get
there faster and do things bigger.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
The idea is the easy pot. The herd execution is
the hard part.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
As the old saying goes, it's one percent inspiration, if
not less than one percent, and nineteen nine percent perspiration.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
But I'll say the perspiration part you're really damn good at.
Also because you're making you know, the companies you're building
are actually building stuff they're building cars, they're building spaceships,
they're building things that if they don't work, it's a
real problem. And the precision you manufacture things with, how
do you get that level of precision? How do you
(26:29):
get how do you build a culture? You're not You're
amazing at thinking outside the box. But what's interesting is
you you may even be better at execution, which is
how do you execute so effectively?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Well, I take a physics fresh principles approach to everything.
It's not as though I wanted to in source manufacturing.
It's just that I was unable to outsource it effectively.
So uh, you know, the idea at the beginning of
Tesla was that we would outsource.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Almost all the manufacturing.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
But then it turned out there was no there were
no good companies to outsourced manufacturing too, which there wasn't
a really really, it wasn't peaceable outsourced manufacturing actually is
the exception of the rule. And and just over time,
we had to insource almost everything for Tesla and same
for SpaceX. I became very good at manufacturing because I
(27:26):
had to use no choice. At this point, I might
know more about manufacturing than any any human ever has,
because I've done so many. I've manufactured so many different
things and so many different arenas. I think probably more
than anyone ever has.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Look, that's that sounds like an astonishing statement, but it's
not a crazy statement. And you're somehow running Tesla and
running SpaceX and running X and running the Boring Company
and running Norlink and doing doge. How much do you
sleep in a given night?
Speaker 4 (27:59):
About six hours and average.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So about six So so that's it wouldn't have shocked
me if you said three or four.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
So the cornets rush is how many hours do you
work a day?
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I work almost every working hour.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And Ben, he's not kidding that. Like when Elan and
I were first getting to know each other, I suggested,
I said, hey, let let's grab dinner sometime. And I
don't know if you remember what you said. You said,
I don't eat dinner. I don't have social dinners really right,
I mean that, Yeah, I mean you obviously eat food,
but yeah, idea going to a restaurant for two hours, But
the idea of like, I don't, But it was it
(28:32):
was just kind of a matter of fact. Why would
I go to dinner like you jump you work? Uh?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yeah, I interally just I'll have lunch, and then it
brought during meetings and continue being.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
How many nights have you slept at your offices? You
think your career percentage wise where you say, I just
got to take this nap basically because my body forces
me to, and I got to get back to work
fast and efficiently without going somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Well, I guess it started out even with the first
company two which is a terrible name, but the first
interror company, we were able to rent an office which
was like in a leaky attack essentially for five hundred
dollars a month, and the cheapest apartment we could find
(29:20):
was eight hundred dollars a month. So like, and we
only had about five thousand dollars between our brother and I,
so like we're not we'll we'll, we'll.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Just stay in the office. Yep. So we got some.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Couches that converted into beds and we'd can't sleep at night,
and then we just have like turn the beds back
into couches before anyone came, and then we would shout
the Y M C A down the road and so
that went that that that that literally was for several months.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
What we did, it was in great shape. You know,
we work out the y.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I still remember that that YFC at Page Miller al
Camino in Palo Alto.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So that was a long time.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Again, so it's been I don't know. I've never thought
to count it, but several hundred days maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
So you're now the richest man on earth? Do you
still sleep at the office, Well, that's true, maybe Mars,
we'll find someone else.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But I think if someone is a sovereign head of
a country there to facto richer by a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Do you still sleep at the office now?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
I have sometimes slept at the office. Yeah, don't forget.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Hit that
subscriber auto download button from the White House. It's been
a pleasure. Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Some verdict.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
We'll see you guys back here in a couple of days.
After more than a year of war, tear and pain
in Israel, the need for security essentials and support for
first responders is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire.
Israel must be prepared for the next attack, wherever it
may come from. As Israel is surrounded by enemies on
all sides. That is where the International Fellowship of Christians
(00:20):
and Jews and you come in. They are the ones
that help give the support that is needed and the
people of Israel need now more than ever before, life
saving security essentials, and your gift today will help save
lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles and ambulances,
firefighting equipment, flat jackets and bulletproof vests, and so much more.
(00:42):
Your generous donation today will help ensure the people of
Israel are safe and secure in the days to come.
So give a gift to bless Israel and her people
by visiting support IFCJ dot org. That's one word support
IFCJ dot org or call eight to eight four eight
eight IFCJ that's eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ
(01:05):
eight and eight four eight eight four three two five
or support IFCJ dot org. Welcome and his Verdict with Center,
Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson. With You and Today is part
two of our exclusive conversation with Elon Musk, the entrepreneur
and innovator who is transforming industries and is dismantling government waste,
fraud and abuse With Doge must Relentless pursuit of technology
(01:29):
and space exploration continues to capture the world's imagination. In
this episode, we unravel the thoughts and aspirations of a
man who defies conventional boundaries, pushing humanity towards new horizons.
So join us in the White House as we continue
to explore the riveting journey of Elon Musk, a modern
day pioneer whose revolutionary ideas are set to redefine tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Let me start with a question. You know a lot
about what year does man first set foot on Mars.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I think the soonest would be twenty nine, twenty nine, yes,
and I don't think it's more than two to four
years beyond that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And that's not an unman's that's a human being putting
his foot on the surface.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yes, best case would be twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And what do you put the odds of finding either
alien life or evidence of alien life.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I don't think we're going to find aliens, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But do we find ruins? Do we find remnants?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
We may we may find the ruins of a long
dead alien civilization, that's possible. And we may find subterranean
microbial life, that's possible.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
All right. If Man lands on Mars in twenty nine,
how soon after that do you land on Mars?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
It remains to be seen. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
The important thing is that are we build a self
sustaining city on Mars as quickly as possible. The key
threshold is when that city can continue to grow, continue
to prosper even when the supply ships from Earth stop coming.
(03:13):
At that point, even if something would happen on Earth,
it might might It might not be World War three,
but it might be that a bad virus.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah, it might not be anything. For those things.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
It's like like like say, civilization, you could die with
a bang or a whimper. It maybe that civilization dies
with a whimper rather than a bang or and simply
loses the ability to send ships to Mars. But so
you absoenly need Mars to become self sustaining and be
able to grow by itself before the resupply ships from
Earth stopped coming. That That is the critical a civilizational
(03:49):
threshold beyond which the probable life span of civilization is
much greater.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And how close are we technologically to be able to
do that, to have a self sustaining settlement on the
surface of Mars.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I think it can be done in twenty years, But.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It would take twenty years, so we're not in twenty nine.
We're not there. What are we missing? What are the
big technologies?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
We don't have a few people running around the surface
in a hostile environment is not going to make it
self sustaining. So you're going to need on the order
of a million people, maybe a million tons of cargo.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So but you think we could have a million people
on Mars in twenty years? Yes, And what's the technology
we're missing right now? When you think about a million
people on Mars, do we have the ability to get water,
to get food, to keep them safe? I mean, what
do we need to make that happen?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, you need to recreate the entire base of industry
of Earth. So you know, we're here at the top
of a massive permit of industry that starts with mining
a bas array of materials, those materials going through hundreds
of steps of refinements. We grow food, obviously, we grow trees,
(05:04):
we make things out of the trees. There's you know,
you've got to You've got to build all that on Mars,
and Mars is a hostile environment. It's you know, it
sometimes gets above zero on a warm summer day near
the equator on Mars.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Meanly it's quite cold.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
How do you prep for that?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well, in the beginning, on Mars.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You have to have a life support habitation module right
like you need You can't just live outdoors.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
You can't breathe the air like.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
A dome you think is likely?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Yeah, glass domes type of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Have you identified a location on Mars that is likely
to be ideal for a habitat?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
What might be Arcadia planet? Here is one of the
one of the good options. That's one of my daughters
is named Arcadia after.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That, and what makes that attractive.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
My other son's little name is uh Ari's Mars.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
You've been thinking about this for a long time. If
you're name and your kids around it.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
My eldest kid is little name is essentially Mars.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
When did you get the dream?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Like, I mean, it's twenty two to twenty one. Soon
this is decades old.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, dream So like when you were ten, did you
look up and say I'm going to Mars?
Speaker 4 (06:22):
No? No.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I read a lot of science fiction books and program computers.
But the first, finally off, the first video game that
I sold was a space video game called Blastar. Maybe
I spoiled this way.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
How do you do? How do you become Elon Musk? Look,
you're obviously smart as hell, but but there are lots
there are a lot of smart people that don't do
swat and you've managed everything you've touched has been an
extraordinary success. Uh yeah, yeah, Look, I mean that's just
objectively right. So what has led to that? Because there
(07:00):
are other smart people that that's not true, and they
gaze at their navel and they don't do anything. So
what what do you do differently that makes you so effective?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Well? I suppose I have a philosophy of curiosity.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I want to find out the nature of the universe,
understand the universe, and in order to do that, we
have to travel to other planets, see other star systems,
maybe other galaxies, find perhaps other alien civilizations, or at
least the remnants of alien civilizations, gain a better understanding
(07:35):
of worse it's universe going ready to come from and
what questions do we not yet know to ask about
the answer that is the universe.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So let's go back twenty five years, late nineties. You're
at PayPal. How do you turn PayPal into the success
it was, which which then helped launch you to the
next one? In the next one.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, So I studied physics and economics and college she's
a good nation for understanding how the economy works and
how reality works. And then I was going to do
a PhD at Stanford in advanced ultra capacitors actually as
(08:16):
a potential means of energy storage for electric transport. Put
that on hold to start an internet company. Essentially came
to the conclusion that the Internet was one of those
rare things and I could either watch it happen while
a grad student or participated. And I figured, I've always
(08:38):
go back to grad school. You know, grad school is
going to be kind of the same. But I couldn't
rather thought of just watching the Internet happen, So I
wanted to be a part of building it. So I
created an Internet Internet company. We did the first maps, directions,
yellow pages, white pages on the Internet. I actually wrote
the first version of Suffered just by myself and ninety
(09:00):
five and we ended up selling that to Compact Texas company.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I guess yea.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
For about three hundred million dollars in cash about four
years after I graduated.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
So I should say just to preface that I graduated
with about one hundred thousand dollars a student debt. So
it wasn't yeah, you and me both yeah, yeah, right,
I know.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And when I first arrived in North America, I arrived
with twenty five hundred dollars, a bag of books and
a bag of clothes.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
All right, So you sell the company for three hundred million,
How much does that change your life?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
I got twenty one million dollars black jack, and but
I wanted to do more on the internet. So started
a company called x dot com, which morch were a
company called Confinity, which is Peter Thiel and Max Leptun yep,
and we're combined. Company was actually at first little called
(10:02):
x dot com, but we later later changed the name
of the company to PayPal. Because of all the name changes,
it's kind of confusing. But the company that people know
is know as PayPal today. Was actually I felt those
in corporation documents for that company interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, and as you know, Peter Tiel and I were
buddies back in the mid nineties before he went and
did any of this, but you know, I became friends
with him when he was a corporate lawyer in New
York and just sort of a young libertarian with with
a lot of dreams. So it's been a heck of
a journey.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, And now Peter was involved in a coup. You know,
we had a little sort of knifing in the Senate
situation where you know that they did cooon met at PayPal.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I kind of now, did you all make peace after that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
I mean I was doing a lot of sort of
risky moves that I think ultimately would have been successful.
But I then went on a two week trip which
was a dual money raising trip and honeymoon, and said
not done my honeymoon earlier in the year. So it's
raising money while doing doing Hollywood honeymoon. But I was
(11:15):
kind of awake.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Did that go over by the way it worked?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It worked?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
There, you go, kind of worked. I raised money, yeah, yeah,
and we had honeymoon there you go.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So yeah, but you don't want to be away from
the battle when things are scary. So I was not
there to assuage the concerns of the troops. And anyway,
we're passed things up. And I have been friends nonetheless,
(11:45):
and yeah, these days all stay at his house and stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
So I was super friends. And he's also invested in
most of my companies.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
All right, So two thousand and two you start SpaceX, Like,
how do you start a rocket company? Like what's the
first day where you're like, I want to make rockets
and I want to go to Mars? Like what do
you do on day one?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
So I think you have to start with a some
sort of philosophical premise in order to have in order
for the in order to be in order to be
highly motivated, you have to have some.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Philosophical foundation. In my case, it was.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
That that we want to expand the scale, the scope
and scale of consciousness.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
To better understand the nature of the universe.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
And in order to expand scale, expand consciousness, we need
to go beyond one planet. If for one planet there's
there's too much risk, you know, hopefully Earth civilization prosperous
very far into the future.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
But it may not.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
There's always some risk that we are we self annihilate
through nuclear war, or that there's a big meter that
takes us out like the dinosaurs. Ye, there's always some
risk if all your eggs are in one bast good.
So it's going to be better if we're a multiplanet species.
And then once we're a multiplanet species, that the next
step would be to be a multi stellar and have
(13:09):
a civilization among on many different star systems. So in
two thousand and one, I didn't think that I could.
I didn't think I could sell a rocket company. So
I thought I'd take some of the money from PayPal.
In that case, I think was about one hundred and
eighty million dollars after tax, something like that, And I thought,
(13:32):
you know, I don't need a hundred and eighty million dollars,
so I'll spend a bunch of it on a philanthropic
Mars mission to get the public excited about going back
to Mars. We're going to Mars, I should say, yeah,
Mars was always going to be the destination after the Moon.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
In fact, if you told people in nineteen sixty nine
that it would be twenty twenty five and we've not
even gone back to the Moon, let alone it's targetable leave,
let alone Mars. They'd be like what happened in the
civilization collapse? Top Yeah, like they would be incomprehensible that
we've not been to Mars by now, if you told
people this after landing on the Moon in sixty nine.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Why do you think in fifty years America never went
back to the moon.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Well, we destroyed the Saturn five rocket that was that
could take people to the Moon, and had the Space Shuttle,
which could only go to lowth orbit, and then there
really hasn't been anything to replace any No, no vehicle
has been made since then that can go to the
Moon or to Mars until the SpaceX Starship rocket. Yeah,
(14:38):
so you can't go to Mars if you don't have
the ride.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So I remember you and I first met in twenty
thirteen when when I was a brand new baby senator. Yeah,
and I was still down in the basement office. They
stick freshman senators in the basement office a kind of
like hazy. Yeah, yeah, say it sounds like there are
one hundred seared offices. But for six months you stay
in the base. You're in your place it's like worrying. Mean,
(15:02):
you know where you're supposed to you now, thirteen years
into it. I think there's a lot of wisdom to
doing that. But you were down in the basement office
and I remember you were coming and sitting down with
SpaceX and at the time, the Air Force was not
letting you all bid to launch satellites, and so you
were coming and saying, look, we got a company. I
think we can do a really good job of this,
and yet we're locked out of this. It's a little
(15:23):
amazing to think the journey SpaceX is gone from then
to now.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yes, it's hard to believe that this is all real
because originally, consistently with my belief that we need to
become a mother planet species, I thought the only way
to do that would be through NASA sou and I
think I thought, well, if I just get the public
excited about Mars, then they'll do admission to Mars. And
(15:50):
so initially my thought was to have to send a
small greenhouse with seeds and dehydrated nutrient gel. Then land
the greenhouse, hydrate the seeds, and you see.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
The sort of money shot.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
The money shot would be green plants on a red background.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I also recently know that money shot has a different
meaning in some other arenas.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
But yeah, story.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But what I'm trying to say is the captivating shot
would be the green plants on a red background, and
then hopefully that would if we did something like that, that
would get the public excited about Mars, that would increase
nasta's budget, and then we could send people to Mars.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Dream was nicey to do this? Yes, not you. No.
The original original plan was.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Literally to take a bunch of the money from PayPal
and I guess, by some people's definition, waste it with
no probit on a nonprofit thing. I wanted to spend
a whole bunch of my money for free to get
NASA's budget to be bigger so we could.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Go to friggin Mars. Right, Wow, that's what I wanted.
So that was the holy Grail, That's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I was like, so, when did you Mars?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
That's what I wanted to know, Well.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
When when did it strike you? Okay, you're going to
have to do this.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
If you will, I'll tell you.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
It gets crazier, all right, It gets crazier so so
that I couldn't afford any of the US rockets because
as you know, the US rockets are way too expensive
for bying lucky rock Lucky rockets are crazy money I
didn't have.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
I didn't even even with one hundred eighty millions. Way
I could have afforded were they back then?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Well, the that with the additional stage to get tomorrows,
it would have been about like eighty million. So technically
I could have afforded one of them, but I wanted
to do too in case one of them didn't work.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Yeah. So and then I didn't have enough money for that.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, And I was sort of prepared to, you know,
I don't know, waste half the money. And I figured
if I had ninety million left, that'd be fine, you know,
but ideally on all of it.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
So I went to Russia twice to try to buy ICBMs.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
How'd that go?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And who do you call?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
The Russian rocket forces?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
They sell ICBMs? Does that work?
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You got to tell us a story that I want
to know who you can buy anything in Russia?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, I like, please walk you down that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I want to know how you made that phone call
and when you get there, how did that work?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
And what do you tell your friends? Yeah, listen, I'm
going to Russian device in ICBMs. I might not return,
you know, in this situation.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Literally, Yeah, So I guess slightly less insane when you
when you understand that the Russians had to demolish a
bunch of their ICBMs because of uh, you know, sult
talks like the peace because basically an agreement between the
United States and Russia to reduce the total number of ICBMs,
(18:46):
Russia was actually obligated to scrap a bunch of their ICBMs.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
So you've took it the very biggest ICBMs.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You could converte those into a rocket at additional stage
and send something to Mars.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So those are big enough with one more stage to
get to Mars.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
To send a small payload to Mars. Yeah, so the
SS eighteen.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So you try to buy CBMs, do you succeed or no?
Or do you figure out you got to build your
own instead.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
They kept raising the price on me, so because I
figured like, look, they're going to throw these things in
scrappy on anyway, should get a really good deal, right,
So the price started out at four million, then the
next conversation there were at eight million. Then the next compsition,
they were like nineteen million, and I'm like, this is
(19:33):
before we signed a contract.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
By the way, was there another bit? Was there another
bid or were you the only one trying to buy them?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I think I don't know if there were other bids,
but they didn't mention any other bits. But I was like, man,
if if the price is increasing this much before the
contract signed, I'm really going to get fleeced.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
After the contract sign So I got pretty frustrated there.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Actually, in some cases we got into like shouting matches
in Moscow. Some guy shouting at me in Russia and
I'm shouting back at.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Him and really badly, you know, I'm like, so you
are all I mean, you're all.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
In Moscow.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Man, I should have recorded that. That would have been one
for them.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
How many days were you there negotiating that first time?
I mean it was just like ongoing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
This this took place.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
These conversations took place over probably six months or so so,
and then the final trip trip there was with the
with was with Mike Reffinue later became as administrator. I
actually realized in the course of this that my original
premise was wrong, that that America actually has plenty of
(20:52):
will to go to Mars, but needs that. It just
needs a way to Mars that is affordable and that
doesn't break the budget.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know, just as you know, we couldn't even get
to the space station. We needed the Russians to get
us to our own space station.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
That was embarrasing.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It really was pitiful.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I'm not sure most Americans know just how much we're
being fleeceed. Like I think they got up to like
ninety million.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Dollars a seat.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah wow, Yeah, well for a seat that custom like ten.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Was predge obviously, but it was the only.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah it was before SpaceX.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Ninety million dollars a seat for a seat that cost
them ten million is high.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Yeah, that's a lot of money. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I want to take a moment to tell you real
quick about an incredible company called Patriot Mobile. And the
reason why I say is incredible is because number one
of the reason why it was started. Patriot Mobile was
started by a group of conservatives that found out where
their money was going when they paid their bill to
Big Mobile, and they said, we've got to stop this
because Big Mobile gets massive donations to democratic causes candidates
(21:54):
and organizations, even organizations that advocate support and pay for abortions.
If you don't want money going there, then you need
to switch. The only Christian conservative wireless provider in the
country with nation wide coverage. I use Patriot Mobile and
I travel all the time. A lot of people say
the number one reason why they don't change. They say
it's just too hard, too difficult, and I don't want
(22:15):
to have bad coverage. None of that's an issue in
twenty twenty four anymore. You literally can change right now
over the phone. All you got to do is call
Patriot Mobile and they can do it over the phone,
and you keep your same cell phone number you have now.
You can keep your same cell phone you have in
your hand right now, and you can upgrade to a
new phone if you want to. But then this is
where the best part happens, the most fun part of switching.
(22:38):
Every month Patriot Mobile. When you pay your bill, they
take about five percent of your bill at no extra
cost to you, and they give it back to conservative
causes that fight for a First and or second Amendment.
They fight for the rights of unborn children, and they
stand and support and advocate and help our wounded warriors.
Our veterans, our first responder, our heroes each and every day.
(23:02):
That is why I love Patriot Mobile and I want
you to make the switch. So go to Patriot Mobile
dot com slash verdict and you are going to get
a free month of service with a promo code verdict.
Or you can call them nine seven to two Patriot.
That's nine seven to two Patriot, nine seven to two Patriot.
(23:24):
Or call them and go online at Patriot Mobile dot
com slash verdict promo code verdict for a free month
of service. Make the switch and make a difference every
time you pay your bill.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So a few months ago you and I were down
in Bokuchika with a president for a starship launch, and
it is incredible what you built in Bocachica. You know,
five years ago it was an empty beach.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
At the southern tip of tex Soundbara.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And it's now a city and a factory where you're
building a rocket ship a month with incredible precision. But
one of the things you said to me when we
were down there that really stood out me is is
is you said your philosophy on intellectual property talk to
lots of CEOs or we fight to guard our I
p and and you had a very different approach. What's
what's your view.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Of I P patents of the week, patterns of for
those that innovation slowly.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I literally do not know anyone else in business who
would say something like that, like like it was a
startling and and and and what Elon said down there
is he said, look this stuff. I assume everyone will
steal everything, but by the time they steal it will
be five generations beyond and it won't matter.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yes, at Tesla, we actually open sourcedal Lite patents. So
we said our patents are anyone can use them for free.
Really yeah, uh. The only wily do patents of Tesla
to to avoid patent.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Trolls causing causing trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
So we'll try to look ahead and say, okay, patent
trolls are going to trial file patterns to blocks and things,
will file patents and then open source to make it free.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I mean, I'm want to say patents for the week. Now.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
There are a few cases, in say with pharmaceuticals, where
it might cost you billion dollars to do a Phase
three human file, but then subsequently the drug is very
cheap to manufacture. So cases there are some in my opinion,
which would massively reduced what can be patented. And and say,
because the whole point of patenting is to maximize innovation,
(25:20):
not inhibit it. And in my opinion, maybe a controversial opinion,
most patents inhibit innovation, they do not help it. But
there are case I want to do one a single
cases like where such as a phase three clinical trial.
It might cost a billion dollars, but then the drugs
thereafter cost a few dollars to manufacture, and if you
(25:41):
can then immediately copy those drugs for a few dollars,
no one will pay for the billion dollars free writer
problem exactly. So you have to address the free writer problem.
But other than that, there should be no patents. The
ideas are easy.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
You want ideas to flow maximum to people, to get
there faster and do things bigger.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
The idea is the easy pot. The herd execution is
the hard part.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
As the old saying goes, it's one percent inspiration, if
not less than one percent, and nineteen nine percent perspiration.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
But I'll say the perspiration part you're really damn good at.
Also because you're making you know, the companies you're building
are actually building stuff they're building cars, they're building spaceships,
they're building things that if they don't work, it's a
real problem. And the precision you manufacture things with, how
do you get that level of precision? How do you
(26:29):
get how do you build a culture? You're not You're
amazing at thinking outside the box. But what's interesting is
you you may even be better at execution, which is
how do you execute so effectively?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Well, I take a physics fresh principles approach to everything.
It's not as though I wanted to in source manufacturing.
It's just that I was unable to outsource it effectively.
So uh, you know, the idea at the beginning of
Tesla was that we would outsource.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Almost all the manufacturing.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
But then it turned out there was no there were
no good companies to outsourced manufacturing too, which there wasn't
a really really, it wasn't peaceable outsourced manufacturing actually is
the exception of the rule. And and just over time,
we had to insource almost everything for Tesla and same
for SpaceX. I became very good at manufacturing because I
(27:26):
had to use no choice. At this point, I might
know more about manufacturing than any any human ever has,
because I've done so many. I've manufactured so many different
things and so many different arenas. I think probably more
than anyone ever has.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Look, that's that sounds like an astonishing statement, but it's
not a crazy statement. And you're somehow running Tesla and
running SpaceX and running X and running the Boring Company
and running Norlink and doing doge. How much do you
sleep in a given night?
Speaker 4 (27:59):
About six hours and average.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So about six So so that's it wouldn't have shocked
me if you said three or four.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
So the cornets rush is how many hours do you
work a day?
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I work almost every working hour.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And Ben, he's not kidding that. Like when Elan and
I were first getting to know each other, I suggested,
I said, hey, let let's grab dinner sometime. And I
don't know if you remember what you said. You said,
I don't eat dinner. I don't have social dinners really right,
I mean that, Yeah, I mean you obviously eat food,
but yeah, idea going to a restaurant for two hours, But
the idea of like, I don't, But it was it
(28:32):
was just kind of a matter of fact. Why would
I go to dinner like you jump you work? Uh?
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yeah, I interally just I'll have lunch, and then it
brought during meetings and continue being.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
How many nights have you slept at your offices? You
think your career percentage wise where you say, I just
got to take this nap basically because my body forces
me to, and I got to get back to work
fast and efficiently without going somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Well, I guess it started out even with the first
company two which is a terrible name, but the first
interror company, we were able to rent an office which
was like in a leaky attack essentially for five hundred
dollars a month, and the cheapest apartment we could find
(29:20):
was eight hundred dollars a month. So like, and we
only had about five thousand dollars between our brother and I,
so like we're not we'll we'll, we'll.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Just stay in the office. Yep. So we got some.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Couches that converted into beds and we'd can't sleep at night,
and then we just have like turn the beds back
into couches before anyone came, and then we would shout
the Y M C A down the road and so
that went that that that that literally was for several months.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
What we did, it was in great shape. You know,
we work out the y.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I still remember that that YFC at Page Miller al
Camino in Palo Alto.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So that was a long time.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Again, so it's been I don't know. I've never thought
to count it, but several hundred days maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
So you're now the richest man on earth? Do you
still sleep at the office, Well, that's true, maybe Mars,
we'll find someone else.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But I think if someone is a sovereign head of
a country there to facto richer by a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Do you still sleep at the office now?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
I have sometimes slept at the office. Yeah, don't forget.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Hit that
subscriber auto download button from the White House. It's been
a pleasure. Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Some verdict.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
We'll see you guys back here in a couple of days.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.