August 4, 2025 • 49 mins
Today we dive into the incredible story of how Braxton McCoy helped stop the federal government from selling 7 million acres of protected American land. David is joined by Philip Reichert, Executive Director of the Sagebrush Institute, to discuss the grassroots uprising that inspired thousands across the country and how Braxton’s courage and leadership launched a nationwide movement for conservative conservation.
Learn how a sixth-generation cowboy and a team of veterans, outdoorsmen, and patriots are building an alternative to performative activism — and fighting to protect the land that defines America.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's not often in my life and all the things
I've seen in all the places I've gone and the
different kinds of worlds I've lived in from special operations
to the Intel world, to working with professional athletes and companies,
that I end up seeing something that really lifts me up,
that really brings hope to my heart that the collective,
(00:25):
if you will, or the American spirit and a direct
representation of a group of people will come together and
elicit something really powerful, something meaningful. And what I was
able to witness in the over the last several months
through a friend of mine, new friend, Braxton McCoy, and
(00:47):
what he and his initiative was able to do in
order to get that atrocity pulled out of the One
Big Beautiful Bill, which was the proposed land sale of
seven million eight of our nationally preserved lands, and his
initiative along with his friends, to be able to remove
(01:08):
that man that was awe inspiring. And so what resulted
is out of that was an initiative that needs to
continue and has continued through the Sagebrush Institute. And so
today we're incredibly happy to bring on the executive director,
Philip to talk about Sage Brush and to talk about
(01:30):
what they're doing in order to inspire you to really
come to grips and recognize the true importance of what
it means to protect the American homeland. So, ladies and gentlemen,
it is a privilege and honor to introduce Philip Reiker,
(01:50):
executive director of the Sage Brush Institute. Philip, thank you
so much for coming on the show man.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you, David.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
We really appreciate the opportunity to come on and tell
our story and obviously communicate with people allies in the community.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well, and that's interesting, I mean, it really is.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I think now in modern you know, for the lack
of a better term, activism, right, and I think over
the last ten years or so, activism because of the
substantial nature of of you know, radical progressive activism. You know,
we've seen like if you're an activist, there's some underlining
(02:31):
component of oh you're an activist.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
That's lame.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But but activism is there. It's imperative in every aspect
of our lives. In particular, I think this, I think
this issue has really enlightened brought people to recognize, well,
you know, American public lanes there they could be in jeopardy, right,
and so you know, could you just talk to me
(02:54):
a little talk to us a little bit about how
you and Braxt came together and then you know, the
whole lead up to where we're at right now.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, I'll start by saying, obviously Brax and I have
been friends for a little while and obviously very aligned
on this issue. But hats off to him, he and
a few other I would call them champions or influencers,
whatever you want to say, we're very instrumental in this process.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Can I just interrupt and yeah, when you made when
you I'm sorry you were cooking when you said hats off, man,
did you see the Brax and McCoy memes with the.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Hat The side that has the best memes is probably
going to win. And from that alone, I am one
hundred percent certain that we are going to win. I mean,
we say it anyway. First thing, first thing I do
when I wake up in the morning is text Brax
and Hey, we're going to win.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
But with with with the hat memes on our side,
there's not a chance, not a chance, indomitable.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yes, absolutely, And that's also a good sign of who
has the best people. You know, the people who are
most interested in the most ever, they're the ones, you know.
The reply section is cooking with Braxton, and good good
on him for embracing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It a little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Some people may not love that sort of thing, but
I don't think he takes himself very seriously, so, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
And that's who you want to be in partnership with them.
So sorry to interrupt you. I just had to bring
it up yet.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
No, no, I mean to your point about activism.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's it's true you almost don't want to be.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
An activist, and there are negative connotations to being an activist,
but you know, that is how things get achieved here
in the United States, especially in twenty twenty five. So
we Braxton and I were aligned on this and you know,
through the grace of God, the provision was withdrawn and
it was one of the best political wins I think
(04:46):
for a lot of people that they've seen, you know,
one of the first things where they feel genuinely like
to some extent posting on Twitter, they actually made a difference.
Some people, you know, don't feel like they can make
a difference whatsoever. And that is with a lot of
exis existing organizations that you know, activate people. You know,
there's a huge ecosystem of that sort of thing. So
(05:06):
people are you know, they have a pretty negative opinion
on activism now. But I told Braxton and it was
a mutual conversation, but shortly after he went on Sean
and it was withdrawn. I told him, you know, well,
first I said, you know, you're basically contractually obligated at
this point to start an organization like that.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
You just got to do it. It's not I'm just
telling you professionally speaking, you've got to do it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But the root of that argument is is not you know,
arrogance or anything like that, especially because you know, I
wouldn't say that to somebody who I had any any
you know, indication that they were pursuing this for political
gain or financial gain or prestige anything like that. So
I knew, I know Braxton is the right person to
(05:53):
lead this movement. But I told him, you know, if
we do something like this, and he was immediately receptive
and has had some some very well thought out and
I think long standing opinions on this is you know,
it can't be like every other organization that exists, right,
I mean, how many activist groups are there out there
(06:16):
that you know, take money, and you know I have
been He has been a part of some some in
the past. I have been a part of some in
the past. Both of us are adjacent to politics, and
a lot of it, I feel like, is just a
way for people to you know, get paid pretty well
and and have a fancy title and maybe write some
op eds and you know, that's that's that's how America works.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I get that.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But we didn't want to do that, you know, we
didn't want to start something. Uh if that was all
it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
But there was the there there's always.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
There's sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
But there's like in my mind, you know, growing up,
you know, in the eighties where really you know, I
mean obviously you have the count Cold Revolution activists of
lateteen sixties day anti war movement, but then all of
a sudden, like I remember seeing Green Piece people like,
you know, getting in front of monster whaling.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Ships or.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Right, it was a TV show, and then you like,
I remember this one woman, I think it was eighties
or nineties, but she climbed to a top of a
tree out in Oregon and she lived in a tree
for like seven hundred days, and you know, and you
have green peace and all, you know, and it's so
it's like that when you think about ecological activism, you know,
(07:39):
you're thinking about those things. But it wasn't until my
best friend who grew up hunting right, you know, really began.
And then I have another real close friend, Evan Hafer,
who runs Black Rifle Coffee, who's a intense conservationalist and activist,
like I didn't even know. Oh, there's this whole other
part of it too, you know, and when you really
(08:00):
dig into those organizations, there are a little bit different, right,
There's a different underlying mindset about that, that context of
how you're going to interact and what you're gonna do.
And I think, you know, you guys have tapped into
that in a really meaningful way. And how what was
it like trying to decide what it was going to
(08:20):
look like? Well?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I think I think it helps when when you have
some serious people and you know, not to say that
we don't joke around or anything like that, but you know,
regardless of of left or right, there are groups that
are performative.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Climate defiance is one of the new ones on the
left that everyone likes to dunk on and they should.
And then you have groups that are serious. And the
serious groups can either be the most productive if they're
aligned with you, or they can also be, in my opinion,
the most damaging to your cause, because you know, if
somebody takes it seriously, then the much higher chance I think,
(08:57):
of getting.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
What they want done.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, so we obviously he wanted to be serious, but
we want to be different from from the groups that
exist today. And I think that it had to be
that way, not only because there is you know, a
glut of just what I would call even if they're
not performative in the same way that climate defiance are.
They don't they don't pursue an objective with their entire being.
(09:22):
They are not they are not in pursuit of that.
They are just you know, participating in the in the
ecosystem that exists, and maybe they get some wins here,
maybe they get some losses there, but the primary drive
for them is just to exist and to pay the
salaries and to you know.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Go to the galleys and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So we didn't want to do that, and that required
I think a lot of heavy lifting on Braxton's part,
because you know, Braxton from the beginning of land advocacy
and basically anything that he cares about, He's never done
it for ulterior reasons. He's always just done it because
that's what he cares about. And to assemble a team
of people that are doing some thing for free, purely
(10:01):
because they care about it, and you know, to impose
limitations on your effectiveness as an organization to maintain purity,
that's not easy and that required him, you know, finding
the right people for that.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And were you the first one that he contacted and why? So,
you know, how did your relationship initiate?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
That he was seriously considering it until he was seriously
considering it. Yeah, I told him he had to do it,
and I think he said at one point to me,
he was like, Oh, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna
need to like actually start a nonprofit and like all
this stuff. And I was like, that's not an obstacle,
Like that's not the hard part. So he was like interesting.
And then I think within a week he had he
(10:45):
had he'd lined up a board and all of these things.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, so that's the.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Thing too, Philip.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I mean I went to your board and you know,
I mean just the doctor Kelly.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Is it Heber or Herbert Hebber?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, I mean she I look at her resume and
I'm like, holy gosh, that was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah stuff, And she's she's in she's out on field
work with Trout right now. So you know, studied political
science and undergrad and went to MIT and she's out
in the mountains doing field work studying Trout. Kids nowadays,
especially political science dudits, they don't even know.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
That they can do that.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Wow, they don't even know that there's a whole you know,
academic ecosystem of people studying nature.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
They think, oh, I got to go into finance or
I got to go into engineering or something.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
So that was I think that was well. It was
first a good get by Braxton to to get Kelly
on the board. The second it was important to have
people that have at a minimum and understanding of what
is out there, people who have lived in the Mountain West,
people participated actively in the outdoors in some way. I
think our board is like eighty percent veteran too, which
(11:57):
wasn't a requirement, but that certainly helps because everyone has
presumably made some sacrifice for that. So you know that
I think sets us apart from a lot of other
people too. But that was just the board, you know,
that wasn't high laws or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And so I obviously, I mean, I've grown up around.
A component of acts is certainly charity development. I watched
my parents start four or five charities as a kid.
They were always involved in local charities, preservation of where
I grew up in the town of this, you know,
all these different things. And and you know, and I
(12:36):
recently started our first charity, which was called the Operating Yeah,
thank you very much. We worked on it for like
two years, and you know it's still in the developmental
phase three in year three and and it's hard. It's
not easy, you know, And but the real kicker comes
and what that mission focus is, right, and when you
(12:57):
know specifically all right, this, this is what we have
to rally around. Like I mean, you know, you are
in a military. You understand if you don't have a
mission focus, you you know, you got a bunch of
people kind of sitting.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Around like what are we doing and why are we
doing this?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
But you guys had a very clear initiative and that was,
you know, a derivative of what emerged out of this
insanity of selling seven million acres? You know, the one
thing that I think typically happens when I see organism,
you know, a nonprofit start, They come out with a bang,
(13:33):
and then they realize, oh wow, this.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Fight is a lot more intense than we imagine.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
What are some of those facets that you believe you're
you're going to have to confront? Because I guarantee you
there's This is not the end of land sales, right,
I mean, real estate speculators have been a component of
American history since day one. Hell uh, the ultimate uh
realtor is our president right now.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
So you know this isn't going away. So what are
you guys preparing for in the fight?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well, I think creating this organization in the aftermath of
the victory was very important, and in fact, I think
if we had waited even a little bit, the obstacles
to doing so would have been even more incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But it was. It was all about.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
This was a grassroots victory for sure, and there were
champions of it like Braxton, but it was by and
large an organic grassroots victory. But the people that were
fighting they are not grassroots. They're the opposite of grassroots.
It's moneyed interest it's lobbyists, it's big corporations, politicians who
have been you know, in the political system for decades,
and then interest groups. All of these all of these
(14:47):
groups and all of these individuals, they don't work like
like we do, and it is not guaranteed that an
organic grassroots effort against them in the future would work.
So what we felt was in most paramount is creating
something that's bigger than any one person that can you know,
marshal support against something. And that's going to be very difficult.
(15:12):
Like you said, it's it's a lot of work. A
lot of them start off very quickly. I like to
think we're starting slowly and scaling to to a point
that you know, we can make a difference. But as
soon as we as soon as we announce, man, we
had thousands of people sign up. Wow, And I think
we've got a little over twenty five hundred people already
(15:33):
and we've only existed publicly for a couple of weeks
and existed privately for maybe an extra day or two.
So you know, that's fantastic, that's huge, and it's it's
super important because like if if we rely on Braxton
or whomever to to win these fights for us in
the future. We could lose and and he will, you know,
(15:56):
people like Braxton, people like the Board will always fight
for this. But you know, all it takes is one
loss and then it's incremental destruction of of what we
hold dear for the future.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
One hundred percent. And that's why I just love your
mission statement, which is advanced conservative stewardship of America's lands
through principled advocacy, practical policy solutions, and grass roots membership
that puts America first.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
And you know, you know, when you think.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
About who is that, I mean, the obvious collective is
our hunters, right, cattlemen, you know, farmers, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
People that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Are you know, ecologists or people botanists or you know.
But then you know that's the easy, I think, the
easiest way to evaluate. But now all of a sudden,
you take a step back and you look for the
advocacy that emerged out of this, and you know it's
it's people that have been grown up their whole lives,
(17:02):
taking people to your kids and your family to these
places and experiencing what we have exactly what you know,
Teddy Roosevelt acknowledged that we needed to preserve which is
which is the essence of America, and that's these vast open,
you know, divine, miraculous places that we can go and
walk through. I mean, you know, I've been going out
(17:24):
to Colorado since I was a little kid. My parents
used to have a place in Snowmasks for twenty two years,
and my favorite thing was I'd go visit them. Man,
I'd go get my backpack and i'd you know, walk
up behind maroon bells. I'd go camp out and you know,
the above tree line pastures.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I'd wake up and there'd be a hundred elk next
to me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And you can't experience that in any other way and
in any other place. And so I you know the
fact that you balloon to twenty five hundred members or
people that are in are involved or inches, that's a
staggering number to me. But I think it's testament to
what people want. They want to know these places are
(18:10):
safe for their family, for their future, for their businesses,
and like for Bracks and the thing that just kills me.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I mean, he's a sixth generation cowboy.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Like that's that's more. That's that's the DNA of who
you are socially. So when when you're getting contacted by
these people that.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Are funny, what are you hearing like, what is.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
The the the emphasis behind you and what do they want?
Are you getting directed like we Hey, I'm I'm in
Idaho and this.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Is happening here. We need your help here.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Tell me a little bit about what you're seeing from
the rapid response and rise and what are they what
do they want from you guys right now?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Well, so the first thing I'll say is, I think
think the rapid adoption of our platform and our organization
just speaks to how underrepresented people felt by the existing
groups in the space. They felt like that we are
something that closely resembles what they believe in. So that
(19:17):
wasn't limited obviously to the Mountain West or people who
live with access to public land. As you know, obviously
Texas has people think of Texas as a pretty natural state,
but it doesn't have a lot of public land. And
I personally am from North Florida and I'm very far away.
Yeah go tell hassee. But you know, my my personal
(19:40):
experience with with public land for the first time is
when I was stationed in Colorado Springs and I went
out into Pike National Forest and I would just I
would just pick a mountain and walk up it, you know,
and you get to the top and you're like, this
is this is America, this is what we what we
fight for.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
So people can have that perspective wherever they are, and
they do.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Our largest membership is is Texas, obviously, and we have
a ton of people in the Mountain West, but we
have we have members double digit members in every state.
So people, I think having a spokesman who can really
speak to the blood connection.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
To the land is really helpful.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Oh that's brilliant. That's just powerful statement right there.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, you know, Braxton is the guy for it too.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
About it, you know, you know, and dude, like I remember,
you know, in our in our interview obviously through you
know online, and you know, you know, he was you know,
he was you could feel the intensity just admitting in
his his descriptions and all, and like it just sucked
me in. And then you know when he went on
(20:47):
Sean's show, Dude, there were moments where I was like
I was freaking tearing up watching this dude, and I'm like, God,
this guy, like he he you feel it. And and
what's interesting is is we just got back my fam
My wife and her family are from Maine, a little
seeny little town and and Maine has that too.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Right, it does.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It does like you go up to I mean people
think that, you know, you know, Maine is just a
teeny little state.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
It's a massive state.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And it's mostly forest, right and it's and so you know,
every time we go up there, man, we we do
we we try and do this one heike called the
tunnel down Mountain Height, and you know, it's a two
and a half hour hike. I take my daughters all
the way up. And you know, our first time up
to this, it was this plateau lake. We're sitting there,
(21:37):
everybody's exhausted, and this moose walks out of the the
wilderness and and goes for a swim and you know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Flies, yeah, yeah right, it wanted to exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
But it's like my kids are like, you know, they couldn't.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Even move because those are the only ways we are
able to connect to the intimacy. You know, for me,
it's down in South Florida. It's protecting our reefs and
protecting our ocean, and you know, there's a great veteran's
charity called Blue Force, and they go down and they
clean up the reefs and the keys and all that,
(22:15):
and they're wonderful guys.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Rudy Ray is one of the guys that down there.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And and you know, and so for me it's always
been that ecological support of our reef systems and our oceans.
And because I grew up in the water, but to
and so my kids from the moment they could walk,
they're in had masks and they do that. And so
I think, there is this what it's something like this.
(22:39):
Our greatest sense of connection to Mother Earth only comes
when we're integrated with Mother Earth, where it goes beyond
what what we have control of, where where we're not
the dominant controlling factor of the tools and objects we're
integrating with.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Because you're you're you're out of place like you're in
you're in that that place, and I think, you know,
that's so powerful.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So how do you start to continue the messaging. One
of the things that I really love about here it
was policy advocacy, right and to be able to write
policy for particular, whether state politicians, municipal politicians.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Or whatever. To be able to lean on.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You know, I've done, you know, work with the Heritage
Foundation before, with a firm i'm with, and you know
the biggies out there and you we now we know
how corrupt they all are. So to really have you
guys lean in. So what are some of the first
kind of policy things or specific hunting things or contrivt
(23:47):
what what specific tasks are on your guys radar right now?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, So the most important thing, and this does get
into a little bit of what you were talking about,
you know, we wanted to make sure that the people
who were most heavily involved with us and the people
that we are working for as an organization are the
people who are, like you said, in nature and a
part of that, and they have that perspective because I
(24:12):
think that ultimately, if there is policy, I mean, first
of all, I believe that a lot of our problems
should be solved at the lowest possible level, which is
it's a common sentiment among you know, the political right,
but they don't really espouse that. Like I think the
most meaningful thing you can do is go fix your
local and then you maybe fix your state, and then
(24:33):
you look to the national. So the most important thing
for us to do from a policy perspective, was first
acknowledged that our state chapters are going to be on
the ground first developing what is best for their state,
because you know, nobody wants somebody from DC coming in
and telling them what works for them, and I think
(24:56):
that applies everywhere. So even if even if we have
the best of intentions, if we adopt like a broad
sweeping national platform, that all sounds great, and there are
lots of organizations that have a national platform that you
look at it and it looks on paper like all
the right things, how is that involving people? You know,
all political power and political influence in this country should
(25:19):
come from the citizen, and so we believe our platform
should also come from our citizens. So the first thing
that we wanted to do was to go out create
these state chapters, of which we have several so far,
and begin the process of allowing them to determine what's
important to them. And like our platform is through a
(25:39):
C four, we do have a C three which is
going to be you know, repair in projects, since the
kind of thing that you wouldn't expect a DC organization
to even know about and do.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
But the important thing.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
For us is the money, the policy, All of that
comes from the people and goes to the people.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So we are we are the.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Framework for that guy and I to get involved and
make a difference. We are not mandating anything now. We
have a specific focus.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
We're not going to.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Get involved with with issues that are outside of our scope.
And I think it's very important to limit yourself where
you can.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
We do that.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
We limit how we get money, and we limit you know,
how private we are with who we get money from
and all of those things. But we don't want to
We want to focus exclusively on what matters to those people.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I love that mentality, and you know that's always the
great challenge, right you you tap into the the deep
nerve of the social consciousness of the time, and you know,
things can move so fast, so rapidly, and in particularly,
you know, you get somebody from I don't know, some
(26:47):
big foundation or you know whatever, and they have a
lot of money and they're like, oh, look at this
little up and coming foundation.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I'm going to give you two hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And then you know that we're supporting and this, and
then all of a sudden, you know, you get the emails. Listen,
we have an issue in this place right here. We
need you to bring attention and write a little bike
paper or buy you know.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
And you're like, wait, what, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That's the norm.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
It's it's so, it's it's shameful.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I get it. And I've seen this so many times
up close. I maybe they agree with you, Maybe these donors,
you share their position, maybe you put them on your board,
maybe you take their money. But at a certain point,
what if you don't agree?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
What are you going to do? Then? What are you
going to do when you.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Have a million and a half dollars or whatever from
this organization and they're telling you what to believe? Oh,
suddenly they're on your board. Suddenly they are the ones
who determine whether you can make payroll. And of course
your payroll is hundreds of thousands of dollars a year
for each executive in DC, so you need that money.
You very quickly lose whatever independence you have. So we
(27:54):
want to avoid that completely financially and proximity to DC.
We just want we don't want to go to DC
ever never ever, ever.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Well, I don't think you need to. I mean I
think so either.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I think the real what we're starting to really you know,
once you I mean obviously you saw you begin to
collapse the corrupt network of NGOs in DC and how
they're affiliated with the State, Department, Homeland, whatever government agency
is fund siphoning off you know, millions and in some
(28:26):
cases billions of dollars to you know, random you know,
nonprofits that start up depending upon what type who's in
the office.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
They're right both.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Sides, and all of a sudden they get funded to
twenty million dollars and like my favorite one, what's my
favorite one lately and brand new was the concert they
did for the Pacific Palisades fires, right, they raised one
hundred million dollars, and now we found out that less
than five percent has even gotten remotely close to those people.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That's why I think it's so important, man.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I mean, if people are giving you money, obviously they're
gonna want to They're gonna want to know where it goes.
So if there's like everyday working class people giving you money,
Like for us and our C four, which is our
main entity, this is membership money. If people give us
a certain amount of money, we make them members of
the corporation. They're basically on a board, and you know
they should have a say and where that money goes.
(29:25):
So giving one hundred million dollars to fix this crisis,
as soon as you get nothing out of that, people's
trust in these institutions just drop dramatically. And it's not
like we had any to begin with.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I disagree as long as you got Braxton McCoy's name.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Oh of course, days Rus is different. Obviously everyone trusts
us know.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
What a burden it is on you all too?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Right, That's what people don't quite understand, right, And I
think I think they do, but it's it's not something
they want to openly talk about because it's it's it's
indicative of what they're afraid of. Right, Activism requires in
some context conflict. Right, You're identifying a crisis, a problem,
(30:12):
an enemy if you will, and what do you do.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Either address it, fight it, stop it, confront it whatever,
or it just keeps growing. And I think a lot
of people, in particular since COVID, I think a lot
of people have a tremendous amount of fatigue and they're
like kind of over all.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Of the problems and issues.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And I mean, if I had a dollar I mean
because I travel around the country every year, I talk
to thousands of people with you know, my.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Other job, and a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Is in the financial industry, and so I'm you know,
talking about people who they are trying to figure out
what charity their clients are going to invest fifty million
dollars in or whatever, you know. So I'm kind of
haphadedly getting access to that sub ecosystem of filling a
lot of philanthropic endeavors, you know. And it's like, man,
(31:01):
I'm more and more. I'm like, oh, it's about you know,
a tax write off or it's whatever, and yeah, and
I'm just like, wait a minute.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
This is where it gets confusing. One, there's a group
of people who don't want to be activists.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Because they're afraid of the public whatever that might the
reciprocation or the cause and effect of them being outed
or public or whatever. And then the other is it's
not really about that. It's about you know, uh, a
tax exemption, like you know, to you know, do that
and so to see you guys. And this is no
(31:37):
small fight, man. I mean when you start like, dude,
perfect example, perfect example.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Phil and then I'm going to let you.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You just kind of tell me a little bit about
you and how you grew up and why this kind
of thing came in your life. But dude, in my
hometown right now, the city council and I'm Bogertone, Florida,
the city council, everybody but one person. They have this
beautiful acreage in downtown Boco where they have the ball fields.
(32:06):
I grew up playing flag tag and t ball on
our local tennis courts. There a nice city hall, these
beautiful banyon trees and old house that's been in in
Bocus since the nineteen early nineteen hundreds called Singing Bonds. Well,
the majority of board has just decided, oh, we're going
to strike a deal with these New York developers. We're
(32:27):
going to lease this land, knock it down, and they're
going to build two giant high rises. Kind of ins
and nobody in Bokhre Toad knows what's going on now.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And so my mom's like out there banging on.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
It's like put the sign in your front yard and
will you interview these So like I'm just getting boned up,
but I'm going to have this.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
You know, these guys. One of the guys's who's going
against and on.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And that's exactly what you're saying, right, It's like it
has you have to have the courage to be able
to step what once more onto the breach right and
put yourself on the front line for what you believe
in and what matters most to you. And it's just
so admirable what you're doing. Tell us a little bit
(33:10):
of Philip about you and how you've gotten to this point.
Why is this a big issue? And you know your
background and where why you're in this this spot right now.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Well, I think beyond me, the whole board, it speaks
exactly to what you're saying, once more into the breach. Obviously,
Braxton will charge at Windmills however long they let him.
You know, as long as they have horses.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
In Idaho, he'll be he'll be riding one.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
And you know, for all of us it was it
was very important for us to to beat this forever.
And obviously you're not going to beat it forever, but
you can at least create the thing that can that
can do that. I can't speak to everyone's you know,
childhood and stuff like that, but me personally, I grew
up North Florida, you know it's Florida, but it's not
(34:02):
really Florida.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Were Florida.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Yeah, that's right, that's and you know I grew up,
you know, shooting birds in the woods and we played
outside and and that was that was what I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Everything was.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That's what I thought, you know, you were supposed to do.
And uh, I I you know, graduated, went to college.
I only made it a year. I wanted to join
the military since I think I could conceive of anything
just because I it was probably I thought it was
the most honorable thing somebody could do. You know, we
we all believe in America, and being a soldier and
willing to die for America's is the epitome. So I
(34:38):
made it a year at at you went to u
c F for my freshman year. I made it a
year before I dropped out and I went went into
the military. And I remember sitting down with my dad
and I wanted to go be an eleven bravo. I
wanted to do it right, you know, I wanted to
have the experience that everyone had. Although Braxton was signal
all right, yeah, you gotta you gotta remember that.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, the war hero was a guy.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
That's why my dad convinced me that I should do
something smart and be intelligence. So I did that and
I agreed. I joined as an intelligence channelst. I got
to do really cool things. Not as many cool things
as you would expect a recruiter to say, but probably
more than the average person who gets a three year enlistment.
And you know, when I, when I was growing up,
(35:21):
I had wanted desperately to go to the United States
Military Academy at West Point, you know, because you see
it on the military channel and you just you just
think that this is the coolest fucking thing anyone's ever seen. Absolutely,
and Mike actually my first sergeant at the time. But
eventually my commander said, we're going to send you because
we think it's a great place for you to be.
And I really thought about not doing it. I was like, man,
(35:45):
I've seen what an officer does. You know, I don't
want to go work staff. I don't want to I'm
not going to be like I'm not going to be
doing anything. And this also you have to understand, this
was a twenty eighteen ish. Yeah, we were drawing down,
you know, we had pretty much decided to be died
in the Middle East, so I was like, I'm not
going to do it. And my my battalion commander, my
(36:06):
brigade commander, my company commander will walk into a room
when I'm giving a briefing during an exercise and they
pulled me out like you just got into West Point.
We're taking you over to yoga like tell that. I
was like, oh, man, you know, wow, what I did?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Go?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I was going to do it? I think, what was it?
I was going to do it?
Speaker 4 (36:26):
What was that moment?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Light?
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Man?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
You know, it's it's it's wild, it's it's the culmination
of a dream that I never thought I would have,
and I never would have admitted to myself that I
would have.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Oh my gosh, it's like that's it.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Like those the moments that encapsulate the whole build up
as a kid, the whole right, the ideation of this
this thing that's that's bigger than anything else. And then
and then all of a sudden, you know, because of
the quality of soldier you were, this opportunity just comes
(37:00):
to you and that you get it.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Man, that that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Must that's precisely it. Yeah, I mean I didn't. I
didn't have a great experience at West Point. I didn't.
I'll summarize it. I feel less.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Strongly about it now being removed from it. But in
the year that I was there, I didn't develop as
a soldier, which was important to me. I didn't really
develop as a student, which was also really important to
me because I was like, I'm I'm an idiot. Man,
I've been in the Army. I dropped out of college
to join the Army. I don't know anything about calculus. Yeah,
And then I didn't really develop as a person very much.
So with that in mind, and knowing that I was
(37:33):
going to go work staff and probably just go to
some ntcs, I was like, man, I can go to
an Ivy League school right now, And.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So I did that.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Oh cool, where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I went to Columbia, which was actually a mistake.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oh well, you don't know, right, because you know, again,
opportunities hit us, and they hit us in such a right.
There's so much emotional expectation that builds up in what
you imagined something to be, and then you hit it
and then you're like WHOA, and I you know, I
(38:09):
mean I had that in the teams a little bit.
I had it work in agency a little bit, and
every place I've ever gone or done.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
There's a component of that, right, but it.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Really is this precisely when I realized. I'm glad you
mentioned agency.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Precisely when I realized I was beginning to piece together
the trend because I had when I was in I
was at a strategic element in Korea. I worked with
some CIA analysts briefly. And then obviously, you go to
West Point and that's supposed to be the pinnacle. And
then I went to Columbia, which is supposed to be
one of the most you know, prestigious places to be,
and I basically realized that you know, people are people,
(38:44):
and you can find you can find amazing people anywhere.
And Braxton, I think, is a perfect example of this.
I Wantick Braxton over anyone in any of those institutions
nine times out of ten.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Oh same with me.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
But you don't know that, right, You're not sure where
life is going, especially as a kid. That's right, But
what do you do? You say, all right, I'm going
to try it and see for myself. I'm going to
try it and see for myself. And the more times
you do that, the more courage you develop, and the
more you recognize you know that this, you know, blessed
(39:21):
crazy ride between your birthdate and your death date? Like
how you how you utilize that it can It's really
on you and what you choose to do. So after
those experiences, you know, what'd you do and where'd you
get and how'd you ultimately get to where you are now? Sure?
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Well I met my wife at Columbia and COVID was awesome. Yeah,
that was that's as you know, as good as a
experience you can ask for, right, But COVID hit and
I was paying I think seventy two grand a year
before Gibill to go to Columbia. And like, the very
(40:02):
difficult thing for a veteran, especially a veteran with like
a intelligence background, is you can go get a job, dude, you.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Can go work anyway. And yeah, and so I did.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
We My wife was like, man, I don't like she
was working on Wall Street. She had already graduated, and
she's like, I hate this. And I was like, I
could could told you that. I could have told you
you'd hate it. So we went to Wyoming. We lived
in Wyoming for a year. She was doing personal banking.
I was contracting for Space Force there and then we
moved to Denver. I kept contracting for the Space Force,
so that was my second and third times in the
(40:33):
Mountain West, and she wanted to do her PhD. So
we came back to New York and I had to
find something to do.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
I was gonna. I was like, maybe I'll just go.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Work at McLean yep, or find something outside of this
realm to do that I can do indefinitely into the future.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
And I ended up working for Fox News.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
That was my first experience with media and politics, and
believe it or not, as an intelligence contractor and soldier,
I tried to be a political which is something that
I guess is difficult for people. I did not know
that at the time, but I tried to do that.
And so my first experience was at Fox News and
it was actually great.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Cool, that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, I you know, I I my friend. You know
the oh, I'm underneath the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton network.
I've gotten clothes with Clay and Clay's wife used to
be a producer for Tucker and she talks about her
time there is really amazing and really just wonderful, and
so you know, I, I I think I think a
(41:36):
lot of it, as it always is, is the people
you surround yourself with, right, and the people that you
you know, And there be people that you work with
or around that maybe stink and some who are great.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
And so it's again what you make of it.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Yeah, and it's precisely that you know you have you
either have a good team or a bad team. Even
on a bad team, you can find the good people.
And it was just it was an introduction to all
of this, right, It was an introduction to how the
world works, how media works, how politics works. You know,
you start, you're just producing, like basically arranging stuff on
the screen, But eventually you're people are emailing you asking
(42:11):
to come on the show, and you're assisting with booking,
and you're paying attention to the news trends, and it
really just becomes this whole enterprise that most of us
on Twitter are participating in unknowingly but.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Or knowingly, right or no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
The best thing you can do to I mean, if
you want to be a producer or something, the best
thing you can do to be aware of what's.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Going on is just to have a Twitter account. Really honestly, I.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Mean, I was in front of a really successful group
of out in the Midwest two nights ago, you know,
talking for about three hours, you know, and there was
stuff I was talking about that they had no idea
what was going on.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
And you know, we talked about the land saying.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
We talked about you know, we talked about the fact
that America was funding the taleband forty million dollars a week.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
You know, there's another big show Sean.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Broke and you know, talking about terrorist threats internally, and
you know, these people are looking at me, like what
are you talking about.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
I'm like afterwards, I go to the wholesales with.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I'm like, hey, man, you know, these people are really successful,
but they don't know anything. And and I think for me,
that's a challenge, right, because it almost is if there's
so many things to choose from or to pay attention to,
that it overwhelms people psychologically and then they begin to
(43:41):
push away when actually the most gratifying component is you
lean in, right and you see where it leads you
and like, look at you.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
The next thing.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
You know, man, you're the executive director of this age
Brush Institute.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Sure, yeah, and that's and that's that's exactly how it goes, right,
I mean it starts at Fox. But at Fox, all
we were doing is reading Twitter, and you know, I
got I was booking guests. The Ukraine War kicked off,
and I was that was the army guy for that,
so every military segment had to be me, you know,
I was finding Ukrainian leaders off of Twitter and putting
(44:16):
them on the show.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
That's and it's such a powerful platform. Honestly, I don't
like to gass it up too much just to do it,
but it really is. If you take like a week
off of Twitter, it's like almost having one eye closed.
I don't know what's going on in the world.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
Well, I mean I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
If you saw it just yesterday it hit its number
one app in American app yep.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, and it just I think it should be.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And it's just getting started.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Once they figure out video, once they figure out crock
video production, once they figure out how to fix algorithms,
and then once they get the advertising piecet, you know,
to where content creators can actually make some some some
relatively decent money, you know, there will be no other app,
you know, And I think that was his intention from
the beginning, you know.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
So it was to be the all in one app.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Well, the whole context that I created for myself for
my professional career, going from you know, military to to
basically the military, but contracting to Fox, and then you know,
going down in scope. After Fox, I worked for another
national nonprofit and then after that I was like, well,
maybe I need to get more local, and I went
to state.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I would work the State House in Texas.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Most recently and right now, my day job is I'm
the editor and executive director of a local media outlet
in San Antonio.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
And that's called Thrive, right, Thrive.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
We might be rebranding, Okay, it's it's called Thrive. And
you know, I think the most important thing I think
that people can do who want to make a difference
is to get as local as possible in your MS.
That's where it's easiest, its cheapest, your effort goes the
furthest and that's been my thesis.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I've been I've been doing that. You know, it's very
easy to go. I want to. I'm gonna go work
in DC and I'm gonna have a VP title and
I'm gon to do this.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
But I don't think people should do that. I think
most of our problems in this country could be solved.
All of the people who were moving to DC, New
York and Los Angeles for the.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Prestige stayed in their communities.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
And found a cause that they could tackle at the
local level with all of their effort. And you know
that all of that is inculcated into Sagebrush.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Man.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
That's why we go local with our platform. That's why
we are just trying to engage and activate local people
to do local things. And I think that not enough
people do that, not enough organizations in the space do that,
and they need to.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
I agree wholeheartedly, all right, So where can people find
sage Brush will contribute keep up the speed, newsletters, the
whole thing tell us that.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
So recommend either following our Twitter account or going to
Sagebrush Institute dot org and signing up. You can do both.
I recommend you do both. And yeah, we we try it.
It's a delicate balance between pushing out all the things
that's happening and not spamming people.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I think we're navigating that very well right now.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
And you know it's it's gonna be it's gonna be
a wild ride. So much as we're trying to take
it slow. We really are, but so much opportunity is
out there, and you know, we're trying not to raise
money and people are giving us money, and we're trying
not to grow too fast, and we're growing too fast.
So there are going to be opportunities wherever you are
very soon with us, and we're going to publicize all
(47:28):
of it, and we're going to be directly involved with
them every step of the way. Like Braxton is a
perfect example. You know, he'll talk to you on Twitter,
He'll he'll reply to you, he'll he'll engage with you,
and the whole board is the same way. We want
to be advocates for people in their communities.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Well that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
And listen if you're listening this, if you're in your
car right now, or you're at your dinner table, you're
working out, or wherever you are, and you can hear
my voice or see my face.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I want to tell you something. Just think about that moment.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
You know, my early moment memory my whole life was
being out in Yosemite with my father and going for
a hike and having he just remember him putting me
on his shoulders and it was like I was in
the trees and you're going around, you're seeing those sequoias,
and you're seeing you get to the top of that mountain,
(48:20):
you look over that valley and it's transformational, and you
each one of you has that memory, each one of
you has hopefully kept that going in some capacity. Maybe
it's where you do your run every day, you know,
after work, or maybe you know you get out of
the city and you drive out to some beautiful park,
(48:40):
or you know, that's where you actually medicate, vacation, you
dedicate yourself. And I hope you just you're listening to
what Philip is saying and you recognize the power of
this organization and you say, hey, listen, I think this
is the type of people that I believe in. These
are the type of people I want to be the
(49:01):
custodians for my advocacy. And you know, go visit their site,
start following.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Them on on on.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Ex or Twitter, and then don't be afraid, man, you know,
give them a hundred bucks, give them two hundred bucks.
And every little piece matters in organizations like this, because
before you know it, there's gonna be something near you
you're gonna care deeply about. And this is an organization
that might be able to help assist you. So, Philip Man,
(49:29):
you're just such an impressive guy. I really have just
a tremendous amount of respect for you, and as I've
already stated, you know I'd follow Braxton into any army
of will Windmills any day of the week and twice
on Sundays.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
And so here we are.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Amen. Well, thank you so much, sir. God bless you,
and God bless.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
God, bless you. Thank you, thank you,
It's not often in my life and all the things
I've seen in all the places I've gone and the
different kinds of worlds I've lived in from special operations
to the Intel world, to working with professional athletes and companies,
that I end up seeing something that really lifts me up,
that really brings hope to my heart that the collective,
(00:25):
if you will, or the American spirit and a direct
representation of a group of people will come together and
elicit something really powerful, something meaningful. And what I was
able to witness in the over the last several months
through a friend of mine, new friend, Braxton McCoy, and
(00:47):
what he and his initiative was able to do in
order to get that atrocity pulled out of the One
Big Beautiful Bill, which was the proposed land sale of
seven million eight of our nationally preserved lands, and his
initiative along with his friends, to be able to remove
(01:08):
that man that was awe inspiring. And so what resulted
is out of that was an initiative that needs to
continue and has continued through the Sagebrush Institute. And so
today we're incredibly happy to bring on the executive director,
Philip to talk about Sage Brush and to talk about
(01:30):
what they're doing in order to inspire you to really
come to grips and recognize the true importance of what
it means to protect the American homeland. So, ladies and gentlemen,
it is a privilege and honor to introduce Philip Reiker,
(01:50):
executive director of the Sage Brush Institute. Philip, thank you
so much for coming on the show man.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you, David.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
We really appreciate the opportunity to come on and tell
our story and obviously communicate with people allies in the community.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well, and that's interesting, I mean, it really is.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I think now in modern you know, for the lack
of a better term, activism, right, and I think over
the last ten years or so, activism because of the
substantial nature of of you know, radical progressive activism. You know,
we've seen like if you're an activist, there's some underlining
(02:31):
component of oh you're an activist.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
That's lame.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
But but activism is there. It's imperative in every aspect
of our lives. In particular, I think this, I think
this issue has really enlightened brought people to recognize, well,
you know, American public lanes there they could be in jeopardy, right,
and so you know, could you just talk to me
(02:54):
a little talk to us a little bit about how
you and Braxt came together and then you know, the
whole lead up to where we're at right now.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, I'll start by saying, obviously Brax and I have
been friends for a little while and obviously very aligned
on this issue. But hats off to him, he and
a few other I would call them champions or influencers,
whatever you want to say, we're very instrumental in this process.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Can I just interrupt and yeah, when you made when
you I'm sorry you were cooking when you said hats off, man,
did you see the Brax and McCoy memes with the.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Hat The side that has the best memes is probably
going to win. And from that alone, I am one
hundred percent certain that we are going to win. I mean,
we say it anyway. First thing, first thing I do
when I wake up in the morning is text Brax
and Hey, we're going to win.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
But with with with the hat memes on our side,
there's not a chance, not a chance, indomitable.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yes, absolutely, And that's also a good sign of who
has the best people. You know, the people who are
most interested in the most ever, they're the ones, you know.
The reply section is cooking with Braxton, and good good
on him for embracing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It a little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Some people may not love that sort of thing, but
I don't think he takes himself very seriously, so, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
And that's who you want to be in partnership with them.
So sorry to interrupt you. I just had to bring
it up yet.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
No, no, I mean to your point about activism.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's it's true you almost don't want to be.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
An activist, and there are negative connotations to being an activist,
but you know, that is how things get achieved here
in the United States, especially in twenty twenty five. So
we Braxton and I were aligned on this and you know,
through the grace of God, the provision was withdrawn and
it was one of the best political wins I think
(04:46):
for a lot of people that they've seen, you know,
one of the first things where they feel genuinely like
to some extent posting on Twitter, they actually made a difference.
Some people, you know, don't feel like they can make
a difference whatsoever. And that is with a lot of
exis existing organizations that you know, activate people. You know,
there's a huge ecosystem of that sort of thing. So
(05:06):
people are you know, they have a pretty negative opinion
on activism now. But I told Braxton and it was
a mutual conversation, but shortly after he went on Sean
and it was withdrawn. I told him, you know, well,
first I said, you know, you're basically contractually obligated at
this point to start an organization like that.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
You just got to do it. It's not I'm just
telling you professionally speaking, you've got to do it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But the root of that argument is is not you know,
arrogance or anything like that, especially because you know, I
wouldn't say that to somebody who I had any any
you know, indication that they were pursuing this for political
gain or financial gain or prestige anything like that. So
I knew, I know Braxton is the right person to
(05:53):
lead this movement. But I told him, you know, if
we do something like this, and he was immediately receptive
and has had some some very well thought out and
I think long standing opinions on this is you know,
it can't be like every other organization that exists, right,
I mean, how many activist groups are there out there
(06:16):
that you know, take money, and you know I have
been He has been a part of some some in
the past. I have been a part of some in
the past. Both of us are adjacent to politics, and
a lot of it, I feel like, is just a
way for people to you know, get paid pretty well
and and have a fancy title and maybe write some
op eds and you know, that's that's that's how America works.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I get that.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But we didn't want to do that, you know, we
didn't want to start something. Uh if that was all
it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
But there was the there there's always.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
There's sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
But there's like in my mind, you know, growing up,
you know, in the eighties where really you know, I
mean obviously you have the count Cold Revolution activists of
lateteen sixties day anti war movement, but then all of
a sudden, like I remember seeing Green Piece people like,
you know, getting in front of monster whaling.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Ships or.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Right, it was a TV show, and then you like,
I remember this one woman, I think it was eighties
or nineties, but she climbed to a top of a
tree out in Oregon and she lived in a tree
for like seven hundred days, and you know, and you
have green peace and all, you know, and it's so
it's like that when you think about ecological activism, you know,
(07:39):
you're thinking about those things. But it wasn't until my
best friend who grew up hunting right, you know, really began.
And then I have another real close friend, Evan Hafer,
who runs Black Rifle Coffee, who's a intense conservationalist and activist,
like I didn't even know. Oh, there's this whole other
part of it too, you know, and when you really
(08:00):
dig into those organizations, there are a little bit different, right,
There's a different underlying mindset about that, that context of
how you're going to interact and what you're gonna do.
And I think, you know, you guys have tapped into
that in a really meaningful way. And how what was
it like trying to decide what it was going to
(08:20):
look like? Well?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I think I think it helps when when you have
some serious people and you know, not to say that
we don't joke around or anything like that, but you know,
regardless of of left or right, there are groups that
are performative.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Climate defiance is one of the new ones on the
left that everyone likes to dunk on and they should.
And then you have groups that are serious. And the
serious groups can either be the most productive if they're
aligned with you, or they can also be, in my opinion,
the most damaging to your cause, because you know, if
somebody takes it seriously, then the much higher chance I think,
(08:57):
of getting.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
What they want done.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, so we obviously he wanted to be serious, but
we want to be different from from the groups that
exist today. And I think that it had to be
that way, not only because there is you know, a
glut of just what I would call even if they're
not performative in the same way that climate defiance are.
They don't they don't pursue an objective with their entire being.
(09:22):
They are not they are not in pursuit of that.
They are just you know, participating in the in the
ecosystem that exists, and maybe they get some wins here,
maybe they get some losses there, but the primary drive
for them is just to exist and to pay the
salaries and to you know.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Go to the galleys and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So we didn't want to do that, and that required
I think a lot of heavy lifting on Braxton's part,
because you know, Braxton from the beginning of land advocacy
and basically anything that he cares about, He's never done
it for ulterior reasons. He's always just done it because
that's what he cares about. And to assemble a team
of people that are doing some thing for free, purely
(10:01):
because they care about it, and you know, to impose
limitations on your effectiveness as an organization to maintain purity,
that's not easy and that required him, you know, finding
the right people for that.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And were you the first one that he contacted and why? So,
you know, how did your relationship initiate?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
That he was seriously considering it until he was seriously
considering it. Yeah, I told him he had to do it,
and I think he said at one point to me,
he was like, Oh, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna
need to like actually start a nonprofit and like all
this stuff. And I was like, that's not an obstacle,
Like that's not the hard part. So he was like interesting.
And then I think within a week he had he
(10:45):
had he'd lined up a board and all of these things.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, so that's the.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Thing too, Philip.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I mean I went to your board and you know,
I mean just the doctor Kelly.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Is it Heber or Herbert Hebber?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, I mean she I look at her resume and
I'm like, holy gosh, that was brilliant.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah stuff, And she's she's in she's out on field
work with Trout right now. So you know, studied political
science and undergrad and went to MIT and she's out
in the mountains doing field work studying Trout. Kids nowadays,
especially political science dudits, they don't even know.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
That they can do that.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Wow, they don't even know that there's a whole you know,
academic ecosystem of people studying nature.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
They think, oh, I got to go into finance or
I got to go into engineering or something.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
So that was I think that was well. It was
first a good get by Braxton to to get Kelly
on the board. The second it was important to have
people that have at a minimum and understanding of what
is out there, people who have lived in the Mountain West,
people participated actively in the outdoors in some way. I
think our board is like eighty percent veteran too, which
(11:57):
wasn't a requirement, but that certainly helps because everyone has
presumably made some sacrifice for that. So you know that
I think sets us apart from a lot of other
people too. But that was just the board, you know,
that wasn't high laws or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And so I obviously, I mean, I've grown up around.
A component of acts is certainly charity development. I watched
my parents start four or five charities as a kid.
They were always involved in local charities, preservation of where
I grew up in the town of this, you know,
all these different things. And and you know, and I
(12:36):
recently started our first charity, which was called the Operating Yeah,
thank you very much. We worked on it for like
two years, and you know it's still in the developmental
phase three in year three and and it's hard. It's
not easy, you know, And but the real kicker comes
and what that mission focus is, right, and when you
(12:57):
know specifically all right, this, this is what we have
to rally around. Like I mean, you know, you are
in a military. You understand if you don't have a
mission focus, you you know, you got a bunch of
people kind of sitting.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Around like what are we doing and why are we
doing this?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
But you guys had a very clear initiative and that was,
you know, a derivative of what emerged out of this
insanity of selling seven million acres? You know, the one
thing that I think typically happens when I see organism,
you know, a nonprofit start, They come out with a bang,
(13:33):
and then they realize, oh wow, this.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Fight is a lot more intense than we imagine.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
What are some of those facets that you believe you're
you're going to have to confront? Because I guarantee you
there's This is not the end of land sales, right,
I mean, real estate speculators have been a component of
American history since day one. Hell uh, the ultimate uh
realtor is our president right now.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
So you know this isn't going away. So what are
you guys preparing for in the fight?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well, I think creating this organization in the aftermath of
the victory was very important, and in fact, I think
if we had waited even a little bit, the obstacles
to doing so would have been even more incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But it was. It was all about.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
This was a grassroots victory for sure, and there were
champions of it like Braxton, but it was by and
large an organic grassroots victory. But the people that were
fighting they are not grassroots. They're the opposite of grassroots.
It's moneyed interest it's lobbyists, it's big corporations, politicians who
have been you know, in the political system for decades,
and then interest groups. All of these all of these
(14:47):
groups and all of these individuals, they don't work like
like we do, and it is not guaranteed that an
organic grassroots effort against them in the future would work.
So what we felt was in most paramount is creating
something that's bigger than any one person that can you know,
marshal support against something. And that's going to be very difficult.
(15:12):
Like you said, it's it's a lot of work. A
lot of them start off very quickly. I like to
think we're starting slowly and scaling to to a point
that you know, we can make a difference. But as
soon as we as soon as we announce, man, we
had thousands of people sign up. Wow, And I think
we've got a little over twenty five hundred people already
(15:33):
and we've only existed publicly for a couple of weeks
and existed privately for maybe an extra day or two.
So you know, that's fantastic, that's huge, and it's it's
super important because like if if we rely on Braxton
or whomever to to win these fights for us in
the future. We could lose and and he will, you know,
(15:56):
people like Braxton, people like the Board will always fight
for this. But you know, all it takes is one
loss and then it's incremental destruction of of what we
hold dear for the future.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
One hundred percent. And that's why I just love your
mission statement, which is advanced conservative stewardship of America's lands
through principled advocacy, practical policy solutions, and grass roots membership
that puts America first.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
And you know, you know, when you think.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
About who is that, I mean, the obvious collective is
our hunters, right, cattlemen, you know, farmers, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
People that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Are you know, ecologists or people botanists or you know.
But then you know that's the easy, I think, the
easiest way to evaluate. But now all of a sudden,
you take a step back and you look for the
advocacy that emerged out of this, and you know it's
it's people that have been grown up their whole lives,
(17:02):
taking people to your kids and your family to these
places and experiencing what we have exactly what you know,
Teddy Roosevelt acknowledged that we needed to preserve which is
which is the essence of America, and that's these vast open,
you know, divine, miraculous places that we can go and
walk through. I mean, you know, I've been going out
(17:24):
to Colorado since I was a little kid. My parents
used to have a place in Snowmasks for twenty two years,
and my favorite thing was I'd go visit them. Man,
I'd go get my backpack and i'd you know, walk
up behind maroon bells. I'd go camp out and you know,
the above tree line pastures.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
I'd wake up and there'd be a hundred elk next
to me.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And you can't experience that in any other way and
in any other place. And so I you know the
fact that you balloon to twenty five hundred members or
people that are in are involved or inches, that's a
staggering number to me. But I think it's testament to
what people want. They want to know these places are
(18:10):
safe for their family, for their future, for their businesses,
and like for Bracks and the thing that just kills me.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I mean, he's a sixth generation cowboy.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Like that's that's more. That's that's the DNA of who
you are socially. So when when you're getting contacted by
these people that.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Are funny, what are you hearing like, what is.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
The the the emphasis behind you and what do they want?
Are you getting directed like we Hey, I'm I'm in
Idaho and this.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Is happening here. We need your help here.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Tell me a little bit about what you're seeing from
the rapid response and rise and what are they what
do they want from you guys right now?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Well, so the first thing I'll say is, I think
think the rapid adoption of our platform and our organization
just speaks to how underrepresented people felt by the existing
groups in the space. They felt like that we are
something that closely resembles what they believe in. So that
(19:17):
wasn't limited obviously to the Mountain West or people who
live with access to public land. As you know, obviously
Texas has people think of Texas as a pretty natural state,
but it doesn't have a lot of public land. And
I personally am from North Florida and I'm very far away.
Yeah go tell hassee. But you know, my my personal
(19:40):
experience with with public land for the first time is
when I was stationed in Colorado Springs and I went
out into Pike National Forest and I would just I
would just pick a mountain and walk up it, you know,
and you get to the top and you're like, this
is this is America, this is what we what we
fight for.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
So people can have that perspective wherever they are, and
they do.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Our largest membership is is Texas, obviously, and we have
a ton of people in the Mountain West, but we
have we have members double digit members in every state.
So people, I think having a spokesman who can really
speak to the blood connection.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
To the land is really helpful.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Oh that's brilliant. That's just powerful statement right there.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, you know, Braxton is the guy for it too.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
About it, you know, you know, and dude, like I remember,
you know, in our in our interview obviously through you
know online, and you know, you know, he was you know,
he was you could feel the intensity just admitting in
his his descriptions and all, and like it just sucked
me in. And then you know when he went on
(20:47):
Sean's show, Dude, there were moments where I was like
I was freaking tearing up watching this dude, and I'm like, God,
this guy, like he he you feel it. And and
what's interesting is is we just got back my fam
My wife and her family are from Maine, a little
seeny little town and and Maine has that too.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Right, it does.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It does like you go up to I mean people
think that, you know, you know, Maine is just a
teeny little state.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
It's a massive state.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And it's mostly forest, right and it's and so you know,
every time we go up there, man, we we do
we we try and do this one heike called the
tunnel down Mountain Height, and you know, it's a two
and a half hour hike. I take my daughters all
the way up. And you know, our first time up
to this, it was this plateau lake. We're sitting there,
(21:37):
everybody's exhausted, and this moose walks out of the the
wilderness and and goes for a swim and you know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Flies, yeah, yeah right, it wanted to exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
But it's like my kids are like, you know, they couldn't.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Even move because those are the only ways we are
able to connect to the intimacy. You know, for me,
it's down in South Florida. It's protecting our reefs and
protecting our ocean, and you know, there's a great veteran's
charity called Blue Force, and they go down and they
clean up the reefs and the keys and all that,
(22:15):
and they're wonderful guys.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Rudy Ray is one of the guys that down there.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And and you know, and so for me it's always
been that ecological support of our reef systems and our oceans.
And because I grew up in the water, but to
and so my kids from the moment they could walk,
they're in had masks and they do that. And so
I think, there is this what it's something like this.
(22:39):
Our greatest sense of connection to Mother Earth only comes
when we're integrated with Mother Earth, where it goes beyond
what what we have control of, where where we're not
the dominant controlling factor of the tools and objects we're
integrating with.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Because you're you're you're out of place like you're in
you're in that that place, and I think, you know,
that's so powerful.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So how do you start to continue the messaging. One
of the things that I really love about here it
was policy advocacy, right and to be able to write
policy for particular, whether state politicians, municipal politicians.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Or whatever. To be able to lean on.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You know, I've done, you know, work with the Heritage
Foundation before, with a firm i'm with, and you know
the biggies out there and you we now we know
how corrupt they all are. So to really have you
guys lean in. So what are some of the first
kind of policy things or specific hunting things or contrivt
(23:47):
what what specific tasks are on your guys radar right now?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, So the most important thing, and this does get
into a little bit of what you were talking about,
you know, we wanted to make sure that the people
who were most heavily involved with us and the people
that we are working for as an organization are the
people who are, like you said, in nature and a
part of that, and they have that perspective because I
(24:12):
think that ultimately, if there is policy, I mean, first
of all, I believe that a lot of our problems
should be solved at the lowest possible level, which is
it's a common sentiment among you know, the political right,
but they don't really espouse that. Like I think the
most meaningful thing you can do is go fix your
local and then you maybe fix your state, and then
(24:33):
you look to the national. So the most important thing
for us to do from a policy perspective, was first
acknowledged that our state chapters are going to be on
the ground first developing what is best for their state,
because you know, nobody wants somebody from DC coming in
and telling them what works for them, and I think
(24:56):
that applies everywhere. So even if even if we have
the best of intentions, if we adopt like a broad
sweeping national platform, that all sounds great, and there are
lots of organizations that have a national platform that you
look at it and it looks on paper like all
the right things, how is that involving people? You know,
all political power and political influence in this country should
(25:19):
come from the citizen, and so we believe our platform
should also come from our citizens. So the first thing
that we wanted to do was to go out create
these state chapters, of which we have several so far,
and begin the process of allowing them to determine what's
important to them. And like our platform is through a
(25:39):
C four, we do have a C three which is
going to be you know, repair in projects, since the
kind of thing that you wouldn't expect a DC organization
to even know about and do.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
But the important thing.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
For us is the money, the policy, All of that
comes from the people and goes to the people.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So we are we are the.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Framework for that guy and I to get involved and
make a difference. We are not mandating anything now. We
have a specific focus.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
We're not going to.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Get involved with with issues that are outside of our scope.
And I think it's very important to limit yourself where
you can.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
We do that.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
We limit how we get money, and we limit you know,
how private we are with who we get money from
and all of those things. But we don't want to
We want to focus exclusively on what matters to those people.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I love that mentality, and you know that's always the
great challenge, right you you tap into the the deep
nerve of the social consciousness of the time, and you know,
things can move so fast, so rapidly, and in particularly,
you know, you get somebody from I don't know, some
(26:47):
big foundation or you know whatever, and they have a
lot of money and they're like, oh, look at this
little up and coming foundation.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
I'm going to give you two hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And then you know that we're supporting and this, and
then all of a sudden, you know, you get the emails. Listen,
we have an issue in this place right here. We
need you to bring attention and write a little bike
paper or buy you know.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
And you're like, wait, what, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That's the norm.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
It's it's so, it's it's shameful.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I get it. And I've seen this so many times
up close. I maybe they agree with you, Maybe these donors,
you share their position, maybe you put them on your board,
maybe you take their money. But at a certain point,
what if you don't agree?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
What are you going to do? Then? What are you
going to do when you.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Have a million and a half dollars or whatever from
this organization and they're telling you what to believe? Oh,
suddenly they're on your board. Suddenly they are the ones
who determine whether you can make payroll. And of course
your payroll is hundreds of thousands of dollars a year
for each executive in DC, so you need that money.
You very quickly lose whatever independence you have. So we
(27:54):
want to avoid that completely financially and proximity to DC.
We just want we don't want to go to DC
ever never ever, ever.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Well, I don't think you need to. I mean I
think so either.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I think the real what we're starting to really you know,
once you I mean obviously you saw you begin to
collapse the corrupt network of NGOs in DC and how
they're affiliated with the State, Department, Homeland, whatever government agency
is fund siphoning off you know, millions and in some
(28:26):
cases billions of dollars to you know, random you know,
nonprofits that start up depending upon what type who's in
the office.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
They're right both.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Sides, and all of a sudden they get funded to
twenty million dollars and like my favorite one, what's my
favorite one lately and brand new was the concert they
did for the Pacific Palisades fires, right, they raised one
hundred million dollars, and now we found out that less
than five percent has even gotten remotely close to those people.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That's why I think it's so important, man.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I mean, if people are giving you money, obviously they're
gonna want to They're gonna want to know where it goes.
So if there's like everyday working class people giving you money,
Like for us and our C four, which is our
main entity, this is membership money. If people give us
a certain amount of money, we make them members of
the corporation. They're basically on a board, and you know
they should have a say and where that money goes.
(29:25):
So giving one hundred million dollars to fix this crisis,
as soon as you get nothing out of that, people's
trust in these institutions just drop dramatically. And it's not
like we had any to begin with.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I disagree as long as you got Braxton McCoy's name.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Oh of course, days Rus is different. Obviously everyone trusts
us know.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
What a burden it is on you all too?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Right, That's what people don't quite understand, right, And I
think I think they do, but it's it's not something
they want to openly talk about because it's it's it's
indicative of what they're afraid of. Right, Activism requires in
some context conflict. Right, You're identifying a crisis, a problem,
(30:12):
an enemy if you will, and what do you do.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Either address it, fight it, stop it, confront it whatever,
or it just keeps growing. And I think a lot
of people, in particular since COVID, I think a lot
of people have a tremendous amount of fatigue and they're
like kind of over all.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Of the problems and issues.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And I mean, if I had a dollar I mean
because I travel around the country every year, I talk
to thousands of people with you know, my.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Other job, and a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Is in the financial industry, and so I'm you know,
talking about people who they are trying to figure out
what charity their clients are going to invest fifty million
dollars in or whatever, you know. So I'm kind of
haphadedly getting access to that sub ecosystem of filling a
lot of philanthropic endeavors, you know. And it's like, man,
(31:01):
I'm more and more. I'm like, oh, it's about you know,
a tax write off or it's whatever, and yeah, and
I'm just like, wait a minute.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
This is where it gets confusing. One, there's a group
of people who don't want to be activists.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Because they're afraid of the public whatever that might the
reciprocation or the cause and effect of them being outed
or public or whatever. And then the other is it's
not really about that. It's about you know, uh, a
tax exemption, like you know, to you know, do that
and so to see you guys. And this is no
(31:37):
small fight, man. I mean when you start like, dude,
perfect example, perfect example.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Phil and then I'm going to let you.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You just kind of tell me a little bit about
you and how you grew up and why this kind
of thing came in your life. But dude, in my
hometown right now, the city council and I'm Bogertone, Florida,
the city council, everybody but one person. They have this
beautiful acreage in downtown Boco where they have the ball fields.
(32:06):
I grew up playing flag tag and t ball on
our local tennis courts. There a nice city hall, these
beautiful banyon trees and old house that's been in in
Bocus since the nineteen early nineteen hundreds called Singing Bonds. Well,
the majority of board has just decided, oh, we're going
to strike a deal with these New York developers. We're
(32:27):
going to lease this land, knock it down, and they're
going to build two giant high rises. Kind of ins
and nobody in Bokhre Toad knows what's going on now.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And so my mom's like out there banging on.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
It's like put the sign in your front yard and
will you interview these So like I'm just getting boned up,
but I'm going to have this.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
You know, these guys. One of the guys's who's going
against and on.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And that's exactly what you're saying, right, It's like it
has you have to have the courage to be able
to step what once more onto the breach right and
put yourself on the front line for what you believe
in and what matters most to you. And it's just
so admirable what you're doing. Tell us a little bit
(33:10):
of Philip about you and how you've gotten to this point.
Why is this a big issue? And you know your
background and where why you're in this this spot right now.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Well, I think beyond me, the whole board, it speaks
exactly to what you're saying, once more into the breach. Obviously,
Braxton will charge at Windmills however long they let him.
You know, as long as they have horses.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
In Idaho, he'll be he'll be riding one.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
And you know, for all of us it was it
was very important for us to to beat this forever.
And obviously you're not going to beat it forever, but
you can at least create the thing that can that
can do that. I can't speak to everyone's you know,
childhood and stuff like that, but me personally, I grew
up North Florida, you know it's Florida, but it's not
(34:02):
really Florida.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Were Florida.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Yeah, that's right, that's and you know I grew up,
you know, shooting birds in the woods and we played
outside and and that was that was what I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Everything was.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That's what I thought, you know, you were supposed to do.
And uh, I I you know, graduated, went to college.
I only made it a year. I wanted to join
the military since I think I could conceive of anything
just because I it was probably I thought it was
the most honorable thing somebody could do. You know, we
we all believe in America, and being a soldier and
willing to die for America's is the epitome. So I
(34:38):
made it a year at at you went to u
c F for my freshman year. I made it a
year before I dropped out and I went went into
the military. And I remember sitting down with my dad
and I wanted to go be an eleven bravo. I
wanted to do it right, you know, I wanted to
have the experience that everyone had. Although Braxton was signal
all right, yeah, you gotta you gotta remember that.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, the war hero was a guy.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
That's why my dad convinced me that I should do
something smart and be intelligence. So I did that and
I agreed. I joined as an intelligence channelst. I got
to do really cool things. Not as many cool things
as you would expect a recruiter to say, but probably
more than the average person who gets a three year enlistment.
And you know, when I, when I was growing up,
(35:21):
I had wanted desperately to go to the United States
Military Academy at West Point, you know, because you see
it on the military channel and you just you just
think that this is the coolest fucking thing anyone's ever seen. Absolutely,
and Mike actually my first sergeant at the time. But
eventually my commander said, we're going to send you because
we think it's a great place for you to be.
And I really thought about not doing it. I was like, man,
(35:45):
I've seen what an officer does. You know, I don't
want to go work staff. I don't want to I'm
not going to be like I'm not going to be
doing anything. And this also you have to understand, this
was a twenty eighteen ish. Yeah, we were drawing down,
you know, we had pretty much decided to be died
in the Middle East, so I was like, I'm not
going to do it. And my my battalion commander, my
(36:06):
brigade commander, my company commander will walk into a room
when I'm giving a briefing during an exercise and they
pulled me out like you just got into West Point.
We're taking you over to yoga like tell that. I
was like, oh, man, you know, wow, what I did?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Go?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I was going to do it? I think, what was it?
I was going to do it?
Speaker 4 (36:26):
What was that moment?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Light?
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Man?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
You know, it's it's it's wild, it's it's the culmination
of a dream that I never thought I would have,
and I never would have admitted to myself that I
would have.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Oh my gosh, it's like that's it.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Like those the moments that encapsulate the whole build up
as a kid, the whole right, the ideation of this
this thing that's that's bigger than anything else. And then
and then all of a sudden, you know, because of
the quality of soldier you were, this opportunity just comes
(37:00):
to you and that you get it.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Man, that that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Must that's precisely it. Yeah, I mean I didn't. I
didn't have a great experience at West Point. I didn't.
I'll summarize it. I feel less.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Strongly about it now being removed from it. But in
the year that I was there, I didn't develop as
a soldier, which was important to me. I didn't really
develop as a student, which was also really important to
me because I was like, I'm I'm an idiot. Man,
I've been in the Army. I dropped out of college
to join the Army. I don't know anything about calculus. Yeah,
And then I didn't really develop as a person very much.
So with that in mind, and knowing that I was
(37:33):
going to go work staff and probably just go to
some ntcs, I was like, man, I can go to
an Ivy League school right now, And.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So I did that.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Oh cool, where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (37:44):
I went to Columbia, which was actually a mistake.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oh well, you don't know, right, because you know, again,
opportunities hit us, and they hit us in such a right.
There's so much emotional expectation that builds up in what
you imagined something to be, and then you hit it
and then you're like WHOA, and I you know, I
(38:09):
mean I had that in the teams a little bit.
I had it work in agency a little bit, and
every place I've ever gone or done.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
There's a component of that, right, but it.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Really is this precisely when I realized. I'm glad you
mentioned agency.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Precisely when I realized I was beginning to piece together
the trend because I had when I was in I
was at a strategic element in Korea. I worked with
some CIA analysts briefly. And then obviously, you go to
West Point and that's supposed to be the pinnacle. And
then I went to Columbia, which is supposed to be
one of the most you know, prestigious places to be,
and I basically realized that you know, people are people,
(38:44):
and you can find you can find amazing people anywhere.
And Braxton, I think, is a perfect example of this.
I Wantick Braxton over anyone in any of those institutions
nine times out of ten.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Oh same with me.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
But you don't know that, right, You're not sure where
life is going, especially as a kid. That's right, But
what do you do? You say, all right, I'm going
to try it and see for myself. I'm going to
try it and see for myself. And the more times
you do that, the more courage you develop, and the
more you recognize you know that this, you know, blessed
(39:21):
crazy ride between your birthdate and your death date? Like
how you how you utilize that it can It's really
on you and what you choose to do. So after
those experiences, you know, what'd you do and where'd you
get and how'd you ultimately get to where you are now? Sure?
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Well I met my wife at Columbia and COVID was awesome. Yeah,
that was that's as you know, as good as a
experience you can ask for, right, But COVID hit and
I was paying I think seventy two grand a year
before Gibill to go to Columbia. And like, the very
(40:02):
difficult thing for a veteran, especially a veteran with like
a intelligence background, is you can go get a job, dude, you.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Can go work anyway. And yeah, and so I did.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
We My wife was like, man, I don't like she
was working on Wall Street. She had already graduated, and
she's like, I hate this. And I was like, I
could could told you that. I could have told you
you'd hate it. So we went to Wyoming. We lived
in Wyoming for a year. She was doing personal banking.
I was contracting for Space Force there and then we
moved to Denver. I kept contracting for the Space Force,
so that was my second and third times in the
(40:33):
Mountain West, and she wanted to do her PhD. So
we came back to New York and I had to
find something to do.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
I was gonna. I was like, maybe I'll just go.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Work at McLean yep, or find something outside of this
realm to do that I can do indefinitely into the future.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
And I ended up working for Fox News.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
That was my first experience with media and politics, and
believe it or not, as an intelligence contractor and soldier,
I tried to be a political which is something that
I guess is difficult for people. I did not know
that at the time, but I tried to do that.
And so my first experience was at Fox News and
it was actually great.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Cool, that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, I you know, I I my friend. You know
the oh, I'm underneath the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton network.
I've gotten clothes with Clay and Clay's wife used to
be a producer for Tucker and she talks about her
time there is really amazing and really just wonderful, and
so you know, I, I I think I think a
(41:36):
lot of it, as it always is, is the people
you surround yourself with, right, and the people that you
you know, And there be people that you work with
or around that maybe stink and some who are great.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
And so it's again what you make of it.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Yeah, and it's precisely that you know you have you
either have a good team or a bad team. Even
on a bad team, you can find the good people.
And it was just it was an introduction to all
of this, right, It was an introduction to how the
world works, how media works, how politics works. You know,
you start, you're just producing, like basically arranging stuff on
the screen, But eventually you're people are emailing you asking
(42:11):
to come on the show, and you're assisting with booking,
and you're paying attention to the news trends, and it
really just becomes this whole enterprise that most of us
on Twitter are participating in unknowingly but.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Or knowingly, right or no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
The best thing you can do to I mean, if
you want to be a producer or something, the best
thing you can do to be aware of what's.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Going on is just to have a Twitter account. Really honestly, I.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Mean, I was in front of a really successful group
of out in the Midwest two nights ago, you know,
talking for about three hours, you know, and there was
stuff I was talking about that they had no idea
what was going on.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
And you know, we talked about the land saying.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
We talked about you know, we talked about the fact
that America was funding the taleband forty million dollars a week.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
You know, there's another big show Sean.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Broke and you know, talking about terrorist threats internally, and
you know, these people are looking at me, like what
are you talking about.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
I'm like afterwards, I go to the wholesales with.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I'm like, hey, man, you know, these people are really successful,
but they don't know anything. And and I think for me,
that's a challenge, right, because it almost is if there's
so many things to choose from or to pay attention to,
that it overwhelms people psychologically and then they begin to
(43:41):
push away when actually the most gratifying component is you
lean in, right and you see where it leads you
and like, look at you.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
The next thing.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
You know, man, you're the executive director of this age
Brush Institute.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Sure, yeah, and that's and that's that's exactly how it goes, right,
I mean it starts at Fox. But at Fox, all
we were doing is reading Twitter, and you know, I
got I was booking guests. The Ukraine War kicked off,
and I was that was the army guy for that,
so every military segment had to be me, you know,
I was finding Ukrainian leaders off of Twitter and putting
(44:16):
them on the show.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
That's and it's such a powerful platform. Honestly, I don't
like to gass it up too much just to do it,
but it really is. If you take like a week
off of Twitter, it's like almost having one eye closed.
I don't know what's going on in the world.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
Well, I mean I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
If you saw it just yesterday it hit its number
one app in American app yep.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, and it just I think it should be.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And it's just getting started.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Once they figure out video, once they figure out crock
video production, once they figure out how to fix algorithms,
and then once they get the advertising piecet, you know,
to where content creators can actually make some some some
relatively decent money, you know, there will be no other app,
you know, And I think that was his intention from
the beginning, you know.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
So it was to be the all in one app.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Well, the whole context that I created for myself for
my professional career, going from you know, military to to
basically the military, but contracting to Fox, and then you know,
going down in scope. After Fox, I worked for another
national nonprofit and then after that I was like, well,
maybe I need to get more local, and I went
to state.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I would work the State House in Texas.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Most recently and right now, my day job is I'm
the editor and executive director of a local media outlet
in San Antonio.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
And that's called Thrive, right, Thrive.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
We might be rebranding, Okay, it's it's called Thrive. And
you know, I think the most important thing I think
that people can do who want to make a difference
is to get as local as possible in your MS.
That's where it's easiest, its cheapest, your effort goes the
furthest and that's been my thesis.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I've been I've been doing that. You know, it's very
easy to go. I want to. I'm gonna go work
in DC and I'm gonna have a VP title and
I'm gon to do this.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
But I don't think people should do that. I think
most of our problems in this country could be solved.
All of the people who were moving to DC, New
York and Los Angeles for the.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Prestige stayed in their communities.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
And found a cause that they could tackle at the
local level with all of their effort. And you know
that all of that is inculcated into Sagebrush.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Man.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
That's why we go local with our platform. That's why
we are just trying to engage and activate local people
to do local things. And I think that not enough
people do that, not enough organizations in the space do that,
and they need to.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
I agree wholeheartedly, all right, So where can people find
sage Brush will contribute keep up the speed, newsletters, the
whole thing tell us that.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
So recommend either following our Twitter account or going to
Sagebrush Institute dot org and signing up. You can do both.
I recommend you do both. And yeah, we we try it.
It's a delicate balance between pushing out all the things
that's happening and not spamming people.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I think we're navigating that very well right now.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
And you know it's it's gonna be it's gonna be
a wild ride. So much as we're trying to take
it slow. We really are, but so much opportunity is
out there, and you know, we're trying not to raise
money and people are giving us money, and we're trying
not to grow too fast, and we're growing too fast.
So there are going to be opportunities wherever you are
very soon with us, and we're going to publicize all
(47:28):
of it, and we're going to be directly involved with
them every step of the way. Like Braxton is a
perfect example. You know, he'll talk to you on Twitter,
He'll he'll reply to you, he'll he'll engage with you,
and the whole board is the same way. We want
to be advocates for people in their communities.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Well that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
And listen if you're listening this, if you're in your
car right now, or you're at your dinner table, you're
working out, or wherever you are, and you can hear
my voice or see my face.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I want to tell you something. Just think about that moment.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
You know, my early moment memory my whole life was
being out in Yosemite with my father and going for
a hike and having he just remember him putting me
on his shoulders and it was like I was in
the trees and you're going around, you're seeing those sequoias,
and you're seeing you get to the top of that mountain,
(48:20):
you look over that valley and it's transformational, and you
each one of you has that memory, each one of
you has hopefully kept that going in some capacity. Maybe
it's where you do your run every day, you know,
after work, or maybe you know you get out of
the city and you drive out to some beautiful park,
(48:40):
or you know, that's where you actually medicate, vacation, you
dedicate yourself. And I hope you just you're listening to
what Philip is saying and you recognize the power of
this organization and you say, hey, listen, I think this
is the type of people that I believe in. These
are the type of people I want to be the
(49:01):
custodians for my advocacy. And you know, go visit their site,
start following.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Them on on on.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Ex or Twitter, and then don't be afraid, man, you know,
give them a hundred bucks, give them two hundred bucks.
And every little piece matters in organizations like this, because
before you know it, there's gonna be something near you
you're gonna care deeply about. And this is an organization
that might be able to help assist you. So, Philip Man,
(49:29):
you're just such an impressive guy. I really have just
a tremendous amount of respect for you, and as I've
already stated, you know I'd follow Braxton into any army
of will Windmills any day of the week and twice
on Sundays.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
And so here we are.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Amen. Well, thank you so much, sir. God bless you,
and God bless.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
God, bless you. Thank you, thank you,
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Buck Sexton
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