May 14, 2025 • 21 mins
Why is the media suddenly skeptical of refugees—when they're white? Buck Sexton is joined by Jeremy Carl, author of The Unprotected Class: How Anti-White Racism is Tearing America Apart, to expose the double standards in mainstream media coverage of South African refugees. They break down the facts behind the persecution of Afrikaner farmers, the shocking decision by the Episcopal Church to walk away from refugee resettlement, and what it all reveals about the modern left. Plus, they dig into how the Trump administration is fighting back against racial bias in federal policy, including action on affirmative action, DEI, and border security.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I thought that the Democrat media loved refugees, even if
they're not refugees from.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
All over the world.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Turns out they've got some questions now about fifty of
them so far, not the ten million it came in
under Biden. Let's talk to our friend Jeremy Carl about this.
He's the author of The Unprotected Class, which is a
fantastic book. I've got my copy of it here in
my library. How anti white racism is tearing America apart? Jeremy,
let's just start with your your overview of Hold on
(00:48):
a second. Why is it that now the media like
ABC News, Associated Press, you know, you name it, when
they report on the Trump administration taking in South African refugees,
they use a lot of words, words like, you know,
alleged refugees or purportedly or according to the administration. You know,
(01:09):
they're really parsing these fifty guys and gals.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, no, absolutely, And it's a real mask off moment,
as I put it on my ex account, and that
they're really sort of revealing their underlying kind of biases.
I mean, and there's really no question that, given some
of the things going on in South Africa, that these
people are under legitimate political persecution, they have legitimate fear
(01:34):
for their safety. And if there were every group of
refugees that you might think would do well here, I
think it will.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Be these folks.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
But yet the media is interested in kind of really really,
as you said, parsing very very closely, just exactly every
single detail of these folks.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, why, let's get to the why, right.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I mean, I think it's pretty clearly that they
have the wrong skin color for the refugee community and
particularly the.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Refugee industrial complex.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And we just saw this today in an announcement from
the Episcopal Church that they are not going to resettle
these refugees. They're not going to be involved in it
any way, even though it would just be a couple
in their case probably, and so they're withdrawing from the
entire refugee resettlement program that they've been part of for decades.
And they sort of gave this very farcical explanation about
(02:27):
how well this isn't really you know, they mentioned they're
involvement in anti Aparte eate things historically, and they said,
you know, these people are not real refugees, and you
know this is just not what the information says.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean, this is not accurate.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So but it's revealing in terms of the preferences of
the far left mainline denominations.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I have to say I was not surprised at all.
I knew the media would the media would take the
reaction that they have, or they would react in this
way to South Africa white. So you have to specify, right,
if they were black South African refugees for whatever reason,
and just to be clear, if there were just black
people from South Africa who showed up at our star
(03:10):
and border and said I have a fear of violence
in my country, there'd be no they'd be talking about all.
They deserve their day in court, they need to go
in front of the immigration system, and they need to
have this all and now we find but because it's
white South Africans, who are a small percentage of the
overall South African population at this point, they have all
these questions. The media didn't surprise me at all, Jeremy.
(03:33):
But the Episcopal Church thing, maybe it's my Dad's episcopalion.
So I hold out some hope that it's not just
some left wing social justice institution that happens to have
some nice cathedrals. But I guess I'm wrong, because I mean,
this seems nuts, like the Episcopal Church, as you've pointed out,
decoupling from a forty year long relationship with refugee resettlement
(03:57):
in America over fifty South African refugees. Like, what point
are they trying to make?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, it is crazy, and they're just these are far
woke churches nominationally, and I want to be a little
bit fair here.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I actually I have a friend.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Who's a Congregational church, which is probably even to the
left of the Episcopal Church. He's a Congregational pastor, and
when I sort of put something out on X recently,
he reached out and said, well, not all of us
are woke. So at an individual congregation level, if you're
in a mainline congregation, you may not see kind of
the far left what's going on here, the anti white racism.
But as I document in the book and have talked
(04:34):
about elsewhere, when you go up to the denominational level,
and a lot of these things that people in individual
churches are not paying attention to you see a lot
of the really radical rhetoric on race that gets us
into a place like what we saw with the Episcopal
Church today.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And yet the Trump administration not backing off this one
bit and saying that there is plenty of cause for
taking these individuals in as refugees. I believe there could
be a lot more. Also, who come, I mean, Jeremy,
are you pretty familiar with the explanations as to why
is it that they are under threat and why they
(05:13):
because I just think people should hear this is a
pretty straightforward case.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, absolutely so. I mean, I think this is important
to say. It's not just white South Africans that are
being impacted here. It's a very specific, large subset of them,
the Afrikaners, who are the sort of Dutch largely Dutch
descended South Africans. They've been in South Africa in many
cases for four hundred years almost, but they tend to
(05:39):
be heavily in agriculture, so they've been targeted in farm
murders at sort of horrific rates. But I think so
that's one piece of it. But the other really key
piece of it is a bill has gone through the
South African legislature, that is targeting their land potentially for
expropriation without compensation, which is the same thing that happened
(06:03):
in Zimbabwe, which was formerly Rhodesia at one point and
under Mugabe, who now everybody agrees was a really bad guy.
And what that did is it both wiped out every
white farmer in Zimbabwe. The overwhelming majority of whites were
forced to flee Zimbabwe, and then also partially as a
result of the collapse of their agricultural sector, many many
(06:24):
millions of black Zimbabweans were put in starvation conditions.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So it was really a disaster for everybody.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And I think the Trump administration is kind of firing
a shot across the bow saying we don't want to
see anything like a repeat of that type of situation
in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We'll come back here and talk more about some of
the policies you and I discussed from your book the
unprotected class and how they're coming to fruition some of them,
and there are more that should we'll discuss that a second.
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Speaker 1 (07:44):
Today.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
All right, Jeremy, let's let's talk about some of the
biggest things that the administration has tackled in terms of
I think we should call it racial justice and the
unprotected class. Your book lays out some of this as well.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think this is really an
area where I would have to give the administration an
A plus and then I laid out a number of
things in the book that I thought we should be doing,
and we've done so many of them to within reason
that we've still got a huge problem, and there's still
a lot more to go. But in doing things like
getting rid of affirmative action at the federal level, in
(08:21):
getting rid of so called disparate impact, which they just
did by an executive order that's absolutely huge, rooting out
DEI and other sort of racist policies from throughout the
federal government. It's you know, some of the things that
they're doing on immigration, obviously to secure the border or
tangentially related to this. So it's really been an outstanding
effort by the administration. And as you point out, I mean,
(08:43):
we shouldn't apologize or run away from from it is
a racial justice effort to say that we are going
to treat everyone equally in the United States, regardless of race,
which is not how we've been doing it for quite
some time.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
How much of the the work is really being done
to uh get away from but let me let me
rephrase this. The Supreme Court looked at the affirmative I
looked at the affirmative action reality in elite Universe cities
and finally came down and just said, look, you can't
do this right like this, this is clearly you know,
(09:15):
the era of and just by way of letting the
audience know where I come from on this, people ask
me when I knew I was a conservative, and I
mean I've always kind of just leaned, I guess with
a I don't know, like a traditional American view of
things since I for as long as I can remember anything,
but I do remember being in high school, at a
scholarship high school where everybody for the most part was
(09:37):
from pretty families of limited financial means, and the black
and Hispanic kids in my class, even if they were
at the bottom of the class, were picking like which
Ivy League or equivalent school they went to. And the
Asian kids and the kids with first generation Hungarian immigrant
parents whatever, they were being told like, oh, you know,
you got a fifteen hundred the SAT but like, let's
(09:58):
hope that you know, Sunny whatever is going to give
you enough money. I mean, it was really a stark difference,
and I just remember as a kid being like, well,
this just that's just not right. You know, It's not
even a questions, just this is not right. People can
try to tell me it's right, but they're lying to me. Finally,
with the Supreme Court, you know, did what is right
on this. But has it actually changed the way that
(10:20):
these universities the acceptance rates of different groups and all that,
or is it just a Supreme Court decision that's being
largely ignored.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, because not only can
you read the book and I get into a little
bit of this, but this was, you know, the Supreme
Court had decided, but the results of that had not
come in.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
If you look on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I gave a long talk at Hillsdale a few months
ago where I really get into the details of what happened,
and it is actually just what you were suggesting. So
the Supreme Court basically ruled you can't discriminate, and effectively,
what the universities have done is they've just thumbed their
nose at the Supreme Court and said, I mean, this
is very ironic because the Left claims to be very
(11:02):
concerned about who's obeying court orders right now, they said, yeah,
we're going to discriminate anyway. I mean, they're not saying
they are, but if you look at the numbers, You've
had roughly a ten percent drop on average, but it's
been all over the map, from increases to somewhat larger
drops in African American and Hispanic student populations in these areas,
(11:23):
whereas on a merit basis, if it was being done
on a racially blind basis, you would have expected fifty
to seventy five percent drops and can combinate increases in
Asian American and white applicants getting into these schools. So
it's really clear that these universities are just ignoring the
Supreme Court and they're going to dare this Trump administration
to really do anything about it.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And I think this will be a big.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Next frontier for the administration to pursue that aggressively.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
What should they do? How should they pursue this?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, I'm not an attorney, so I want to be
a little bit cautious, but I will just say HARMEI Dillon,
who is the Assistant Attorney General for Civil rights, she
is really great. She gets it, she is tough, she
is focused, and I expect that there'll be people with
obviously cause for private action about the fact that they're
(12:15):
not getting in, whereas lesser qualified candidates are.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
But I think that some.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Of the things you're seeing right now where the Trump administration,
albeit on slightly different grounds, is threatening to or withholding
funds from these universities. That's really the only way that
you're going to get changing is that you're going to
have to take away a lot of money and a
lot of these All these universities get a lot of
federal funding, whether they're public or private, and then ultimately
you need to change some of their personnel because personnel
(12:43):
is policy. So some of the people who are really
the ring leaders in bad behavior here are going to
have to come out that they're going to have to
leave these universities or you're not going to get real change.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
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(13:14):
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by Paradigm Press. What are some of the other things
(13:58):
that you see this administration doing, or that you are
hopeful they will be doing in the realm of racial
justice here going forward.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, well, I think there are certain things that they
could be doing. I mean everything from how we deal
with things in the census in terms of how we
count folks. We sort of did it in the last
census in a way to maximally balkanize people into every
single different group that we could get them in and
use that as a basis for giving groups and subgroups
(14:32):
kind of advantages. I would love to go see that
go away with. I mean a lot of people don't
even realize Hispanic didn't even exist as a census category
until nineteen eighty, right, So these are not These were
not categories that were handed down with the Ten Commandments.
These are more recent things. So I think there's things
we can do in terms of categorization. I think there's
(14:54):
more we can do in terms of deportation in the border.
But I think a lot of it now is just
going to come down to execution. I mean the folks
in the administration again, a number of the decision makers there,
without taking too much credit for anything, certainly, I mean
they've read my book, They've read other books that are
talking about things that we need to do. It's just
(15:15):
going to be about execution and following through. And again
I think we have with folks like Stephen Miller and
folks like Harmie Dillon, we've got the right staff in
there to make these moves. And it's just going to be,
but it's going to be trench warfare for a while
because this is this type of racial cast system is
the way that the left keeps its power, and they're
(15:35):
not going to surrender it without a fight.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I do think it's finally this administration is finally one
that is willing to look at what the left has
and what it does to keep power even when they
lose elections, which has been one of the great challenges
for conservatives from all lot of time. And the racial
entitlement state is a huge part of that, and it's
(15:59):
one of the reasons why people always say, well, how
come Republicans have such a hard time making inroads with minorities. Well,
because the regime, the permanent regime as that has existed
for decades now, is such that the Democrats are clearly
the party of There is a racial spoil system for
certain groups to stay with us based on their skin color,
(16:22):
and the Republicans are the ones who, yeah, haven't necessarily
agreed with it, but have kind of gone along with
it too, which was to their own detriment.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
No, you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
And if you look at the funding of the NGO
industrial complex, which kind of gets to this idea of
these permanent groups that you're talking about, that's so much
of it right there, and just defunding some of these
groups removes some of the incentives for bad behavior that
we've seen, and I think it's again really encouraging. As
you correctly said, this administration does understand the long game
(16:57):
in the way that Republican administrations haven't, and just even
having that understanding gives us a chance to.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Win in a way that I think we haven't had
in decades.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So we're making some gains here, some wins. What is
the thing that if you could put one thing on
the Trump administration's radar that you would like to see
them tackle that they haven't necessarily gotten on that much yet,
What would that be?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Gosh, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I mean, I think they really I don't know there's
any one category that jumps to mind immediately. I guess
I would say really encapsulating more than kind of doing
new things, because I think they understand the things, but
it's encapsulating the current things that are maybe in executive
orders and making them in law. So for example, disparate impact,
(17:47):
which I've just sort of referred to. But is this
thing that nobody really knows about, but is one of
the things that enables huge amounts of discrimination in the
United States. So that's actually currently for various stupid reasons,
is actually in federal law in the nineteen ninety one
Civil Rights Act. So you can do certain things with
an executive order, but you've really got to address the
(18:08):
underlying law. And that means that Congress has got to
get busy. And for Congress, which has been moving a
lot slower than the administration, they're going to really need
to have the whip hand out to kind of get
Congress going and really make sure that these things are
not just things that can be at least partially undone
by the next pressent.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I mean disparate impact. For anybody's who's not familiar with
the concept, it's very important. It's very pernicious and undermines
our legal system, I think in really troubling ways, has
for a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But it is.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You can have a not for you, but for people
watching and listening. You can have a law that is
on its face race neutral, but if the results of
that law disproportionately affect a certain group, so you know, well,
even something like a credit scores will be another example
of this, right, Well, reliance on credit scores. Ah, well,
it's disproportionately too many people who are are black, black
(19:04):
or Hispanic are being you know, it goes against them
and credit because their credit report. Therefore credit reports must
be a problem. Like that's just disperate impact in a principle.
But as I like to point out to people, Jeremy,
you could just do this with any law about assault
or about violence, about murder with men and women. I
(19:26):
mean that you could say there's a hugely disparate impact
from murder laws on the male population. Somehow, we're just
getting hit with all the murder charges, Like five percent
of murders are committed by women, and we got these
murder laws. So I think we got to look at
these murder laws more closely.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Absolutely, And you hit right on it. And it's not
just laws, its corporate policies. But you have seen with
some of this disparate impact stuff. I talk about it
in the book credit scores. Even things that looked like
they were racially neutral that the Biden administration pursued on
its face were effectively racial wealth transfers.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
And the Biden administration.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Knew exactly what it was doing when it put these
sorts of policies in, as did the Obama administration. But
what an independent member of the US Commission on Civil
Rights wrote a law paper that I cite that was entitled,
I believe disparate impact policy makes everything presumptively illegal, and
that's basically correct. I mean, effectively, you're always having this
(20:27):
sort of damicles hanging over your head ready to fall
down and cut it off at any time because of
disparate impact policy. And that's the real importance of getting
rid of it at the legislative level. So I think
that's kind of going to be the next frontier.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It's a great book. If you haven't already gotten your copy,
go get the Unprotected Class. How anti white racism is
tearing America apart? Very much something to keep in mind
during a lot of the Trump battles ahead here. Jeremy Carl,
great to have you on, sir. Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Thanks Buck, It's a pleasure to be on.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
I thought that the Democrat media loved refugees, even if
they're not refugees from.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
All over the world.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Turns out they've got some questions now about fifty of
them so far, not the ten million it came in
under Biden. Let's talk to our friend Jeremy Carl about this.
He's the author of The Unprotected Class, which is a
fantastic book. I've got my copy of it here in
my library. How anti white racism is tearing America apart? Jeremy,
let's just start with your your overview of Hold on
(00:48):
a second. Why is it that now the media like
ABC News, Associated Press, you know, you name it, when
they report on the Trump administration taking in South African refugees,
they use a lot of words, words like, you know,
alleged refugees or purportedly or according to the administration. You know,
(01:09):
they're really parsing these fifty guys and gals.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, no, absolutely, And it's a real mask off moment,
as I put it on my ex account, and that
they're really sort of revealing their underlying kind of biases.
I mean, and there's really no question that, given some
of the things going on in South Africa, that these
people are under legitimate political persecution, they have legitimate fear
(01:34):
for their safety. And if there were every group of
refugees that you might think would do well here, I
think it will.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Be these folks.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
But yet the media is interested in kind of really really,
as you said, parsing very very closely, just exactly every
single detail of these folks.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, why, let's get to the why, right.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I mean, I think it's pretty clearly that they
have the wrong skin color for the refugee community and
particularly the.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Refugee industrial complex.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And we just saw this today in an announcement from
the Episcopal Church that they are not going to resettle
these refugees. They're not going to be involved in it
any way, even though it would just be a couple
in their case probably, and so they're withdrawing from the
entire refugee resettlement program that they've been part of for decades.
And they sort of gave this very farcical explanation about
(02:27):
how well this isn't really you know, they mentioned they're
involvement in anti Aparte eate things historically, and they said,
you know, these people are not real refugees, and you
know this is just not what the information says.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean, this is not accurate.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So but it's revealing in terms of the preferences of
the far left mainline denominations.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I have to say I was not surprised at all.
I knew the media would the media would take the
reaction that they have, or they would react in this
way to South Africa white. So you have to specify, right,
if they were black South African refugees for whatever reason,
and just to be clear, if there were just black
people from South Africa who showed up at our star
(03:10):
and border and said I have a fear of violence
in my country, there'd be no they'd be talking about all.
They deserve their day in court, they need to go
in front of the immigration system, and they need to
have this all and now we find but because it's
white South Africans, who are a small percentage of the
overall South African population at this point, they have all
these questions. The media didn't surprise me at all, Jeremy.
(03:33):
But the Episcopal Church thing, maybe it's my Dad's episcopalion.
So I hold out some hope that it's not just
some left wing social justice institution that happens to have
some nice cathedrals. But I guess I'm wrong, because I mean,
this seems nuts, like the Episcopal Church, as you've pointed out,
decoupling from a forty year long relationship with refugee resettlement
(03:57):
in America over fifty South African refugees. Like, what point
are they trying to make?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, it is crazy, and they're just these are far
woke churches nominationally, and I want to be a little
bit fair here.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I actually I have a friend.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Who's a Congregational church, which is probably even to the
left of the Episcopal Church. He's a Congregational pastor, and
when I sort of put something out on X recently,
he reached out and said, well, not all of us
are woke. So at an individual congregation level, if you're
in a mainline congregation, you may not see kind of
the far left what's going on here, the anti white racism.
But as I document in the book and have talked
(04:34):
about elsewhere, when you go up to the denominational level,
and a lot of these things that people in individual
churches are not paying attention to you see a lot
of the really radical rhetoric on race that gets us
into a place like what we saw with the Episcopal
Church today.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And yet the Trump administration not backing off this one
bit and saying that there is plenty of cause for
taking these individuals in as refugees. I believe there could
be a lot more. Also, who come, I mean, Jeremy,
are you pretty familiar with the explanations as to why
is it that they are under threat and why they
(05:13):
because I just think people should hear this is a
pretty straightforward case.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, absolutely so. I mean, I think this is important
to say. It's not just white South Africans that are
being impacted here. It's a very specific, large subset of them,
the Afrikaners, who are the sort of Dutch largely Dutch
descended South Africans. They've been in South Africa in many
cases for four hundred years almost, but they tend to
(05:39):
be heavily in agriculture, so they've been targeted in farm
murders at sort of horrific rates. But I think so
that's one piece of it. But the other really key
piece of it is a bill has gone through the
South African legislature, that is targeting their land potentially for
expropriation without compensation, which is the same thing that happened
(06:03):
in Zimbabwe, which was formerly Rhodesia at one point and
under Mugabe, who now everybody agrees was a really bad guy.
And what that did is it both wiped out every
white farmer in Zimbabwe. The overwhelming majority of whites were
forced to flee Zimbabwe, and then also partially as a
result of the collapse of their agricultural sector, many many
(06:24):
millions of black Zimbabweans were put in starvation conditions.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So it was really a disaster for everybody.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And I think the Trump administration is kind of firing
a shot across the bow saying we don't want to
see anything like a repeat of that type of situation
in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We'll come back here and talk more about some of
the policies you and I discussed from your book the
unprotected class and how they're coming to fruition some of them,
and there are more that should we'll discuss that a second.
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Speaker 1 (07:44):
Today.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
All right, Jeremy, let's let's talk about some of the
biggest things that the administration has tackled in terms of
I think we should call it racial justice and the
unprotected class. Your book lays out some of this as well.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think this is really an
area where I would have to give the administration an
A plus and then I laid out a number of
things in the book that I thought we should be doing,
and we've done so many of them to within reason
that we've still got a huge problem, and there's still
a lot more to go. But in doing things like
getting rid of affirmative action at the federal level, in
(08:21):
getting rid of so called disparate impact, which they just
did by an executive order that's absolutely huge, rooting out
DEI and other sort of racist policies from throughout the
federal government. It's you know, some of the things that
they're doing on immigration, obviously to secure the border or
tangentially related to this. So it's really been an outstanding
effort by the administration. And as you point out, I mean,
(08:43):
we shouldn't apologize or run away from from it is
a racial justice effort to say that we are going
to treat everyone equally in the United States, regardless of race,
which is not how we've been doing it for quite
some time.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
How much of the the work is really being done
to uh get away from but let me let me
rephrase this. The Supreme Court looked at the affirmative I
looked at the affirmative action reality in elite Universe cities
and finally came down and just said, look, you can't
do this right like this, this is clearly you know,
(09:15):
the era of and just by way of letting the
audience know where I come from on this, people ask
me when I knew I was a conservative, and I
mean I've always kind of just leaned, I guess with
a I don't know, like a traditional American view of
things since I for as long as I can remember anything,
but I do remember being in high school, at a
scholarship high school where everybody for the most part was
(09:37):
from pretty families of limited financial means, and the black
and Hispanic kids in my class, even if they were
at the bottom of the class, were picking like which
Ivy League or equivalent school they went to. And the
Asian kids and the kids with first generation Hungarian immigrant
parents whatever, they were being told like, oh, you know,
you got a fifteen hundred the SAT but like, let's
(09:58):
hope that you know, Sunny whatever is going to give
you enough money. I mean, it was really a stark difference,
and I just remember as a kid being like, well,
this just that's just not right. You know, It's not
even a questions, just this is not right. People can
try to tell me it's right, but they're lying to me. Finally,
with the Supreme Court, you know, did what is right
on this. But has it actually changed the way that
(10:20):
these universities the acceptance rates of different groups and all that,
or is it just a Supreme Court decision that's being
largely ignored.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, because not only can
you read the book and I get into a little
bit of this, but this was, you know, the Supreme
Court had decided, but the results of that had not
come in.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
If you look on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I gave a long talk at Hillsdale a few months
ago where I really get into the details of what happened,
and it is actually just what you were suggesting. So
the Supreme Court basically ruled you can't discriminate, and effectively,
what the universities have done is they've just thumbed their
nose at the Supreme Court and said, I mean, this
is very ironic because the Left claims to be very
(11:02):
concerned about who's obeying court orders right now, they said, yeah,
we're going to discriminate anyway. I mean, they're not saying
they are, but if you look at the numbers, You've
had roughly a ten percent drop on average, but it's
been all over the map, from increases to somewhat larger
drops in African American and Hispanic student populations in these areas,
(11:23):
whereas on a merit basis, if it was being done
on a racially blind basis, you would have expected fifty
to seventy five percent drops and can combinate increases in
Asian American and white applicants getting into these schools. So
it's really clear that these universities are just ignoring the
Supreme Court and they're going to dare this Trump administration
to really do anything about it.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And I think this will be a big.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Next frontier for the administration to pursue that aggressively.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
What should they do? How should they pursue this?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, I'm not an attorney, so I want to be
a little bit cautious, but I will just say HARMEI Dillon,
who is the Assistant Attorney General for Civil rights, she
is really great. She gets it, she is tough, she
is focused, and I expect that there'll be people with
obviously cause for private action about the fact that they're
(12:15):
not getting in, whereas lesser qualified candidates are.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
But I think that some.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Of the things you're seeing right now where the Trump administration,
albeit on slightly different grounds, is threatening to or withholding
funds from these universities. That's really the only way that
you're going to get changing is that you're going to
have to take away a lot of money and a
lot of these All these universities get a lot of
federal funding, whether they're public or private, and then ultimately
you need to change some of their personnel because personnel
(12:43):
is policy. So some of the people who are really
the ring leaders in bad behavior here are going to
have to come out that they're going to have to
leave these universities or you're not going to get real change.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
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(13:14):
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by Paradigm Press. What are some of the other things
(13:58):
that you see this administration doing, or that you are
hopeful they will be doing in the realm of racial
justice here going forward.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, well, I think there are certain things that they
could be doing. I mean everything from how we deal
with things in the census in terms of how we
count folks. We sort of did it in the last
census in a way to maximally balkanize people into every
single different group that we could get them in and
use that as a basis for giving groups and subgroups
(14:32):
kind of advantages. I would love to go see that
go away with. I mean a lot of people don't
even realize Hispanic didn't even exist as a census category
until nineteen eighty, right, So these are not These were
not categories that were handed down with the Ten Commandments.
These are more recent things. So I think there's things
we can do in terms of categorization. I think there's
(14:54):
more we can do in terms of deportation in the border.
But I think a lot of it now is just
going to come down to execution. I mean the folks
in the administration again, a number of the decision makers there,
without taking too much credit for anything, certainly, I mean
they've read my book, They've read other books that are
talking about things that we need to do. It's just
(15:15):
going to be about execution and following through. And again
I think we have with folks like Stephen Miller and
folks like Harmie Dillon, we've got the right staff in
there to make these moves. And it's just going to be,
but it's going to be trench warfare for a while
because this is this type of racial cast system is
the way that the left keeps its power, and they're
(15:35):
not going to surrender it without a fight.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I do think it's finally this administration is finally one
that is willing to look at what the left has
and what it does to keep power even when they
lose elections, which has been one of the great challenges
for conservatives from all lot of time. And the racial
entitlement state is a huge part of that, and it's
(15:59):
one of the reasons why people always say, well, how
come Republicans have such a hard time making inroads with minorities. Well,
because the regime, the permanent regime as that has existed
for decades now, is such that the Democrats are clearly
the party of There is a racial spoil system for
certain groups to stay with us based on their skin color,
(16:22):
and the Republicans are the ones who, yeah, haven't necessarily
agreed with it, but have kind of gone along with
it too, which was to their own detriment.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
No, you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
And if you look at the funding of the NGO
industrial complex, which kind of gets to this idea of
these permanent groups that you're talking about, that's so much
of it right there, and just defunding some of these
groups removes some of the incentives for bad behavior that
we've seen, and I think it's again really encouraging. As
you correctly said, this administration does understand the long game
(16:57):
in the way that Republican administrations haven't, and just even
having that understanding gives us a chance to.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Win in a way that I think we haven't had
in decades.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So we're making some gains here, some wins. What is
the thing that if you could put one thing on
the Trump administration's radar that you would like to see
them tackle that they haven't necessarily gotten on that much yet,
What would that be?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Gosh, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I mean, I think they really I don't know there's
any one category that jumps to mind immediately. I guess
I would say really encapsulating more than kind of doing
new things, because I think they understand the things, but
it's encapsulating the current things that are maybe in executive
orders and making them in law. So for example, disparate impact,
(17:47):
which I've just sort of referred to. But is this
thing that nobody really knows about, but is one of
the things that enables huge amounts of discrimination in the
United States. So that's actually currently for various stupid reasons,
is actually in federal law in the nineteen ninety one
Civil Rights Act. So you can do certain things with
an executive order, but you've really got to address the
(18:08):
underlying law. And that means that Congress has got to
get busy. And for Congress, which has been moving a
lot slower than the administration, they're going to really need
to have the whip hand out to kind of get
Congress going and really make sure that these things are
not just things that can be at least partially undone
by the next pressent.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I mean disparate impact. For anybody's who's not familiar with
the concept, it's very important. It's very pernicious and undermines
our legal system, I think in really troubling ways, has
for a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But it is.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You can have a not for you, but for people
watching and listening. You can have a law that is
on its face race neutral, but if the results of
that law disproportionately affect a certain group, so you know, well,
even something like a credit scores will be another example
of this, right, Well, reliance on credit scores. Ah, well,
it's disproportionately too many people who are are black, black
(19:04):
or Hispanic are being you know, it goes against them
and credit because their credit report. Therefore credit reports must
be a problem. Like that's just disperate impact in a principle.
But as I like to point out to people, Jeremy,
you could just do this with any law about assault
or about violence, about murder with men and women. I
(19:26):
mean that you could say there's a hugely disparate impact
from murder laws on the male population. Somehow, we're just
getting hit with all the murder charges, Like five percent
of murders are committed by women, and we got these
murder laws. So I think we got to look at
these murder laws more closely.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Absolutely, And you hit right on it. And it's not
just laws, its corporate policies. But you have seen with
some of this disparate impact stuff. I talk about it
in the book credit scores. Even things that looked like
they were racially neutral that the Biden administration pursued on
its face were effectively racial wealth transfers.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
And the Biden administration.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Knew exactly what it was doing when it put these
sorts of policies in, as did the Obama administration. But
what an independent member of the US Commission on Civil
Rights wrote a law paper that I cite that was entitled,
I believe disparate impact policy makes everything presumptively illegal, and
that's basically correct. I mean, effectively, you're always having this
(20:27):
sort of damicles hanging over your head ready to fall
down and cut it off at any time because of
disparate impact policy. And that's the real importance of getting
rid of it at the legislative level. So I think
that's kind of going to be the next frontier.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It's a great book. If you haven't already gotten your copy,
go get the Unprotected Class. How anti white racism is
tearing America apart? Very much something to keep in mind
during a lot of the Trump battles ahead here. Jeremy Carl,
great to have you on, sir. Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Thanks Buck, It's a pleasure to be on.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Israel is still under attack. There's been missile fire, and
there's been all kinds of threat from the terrorists in
the region against the Jewish state. The reality in Israel
is that parents are still having to worry about taking
their children to school. They still have to worry about
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any moment. This is why we have partnered with the
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