May 6, 2025 • 20 mins
Buck Sexton is joined by Dovid Efune, publisher of The New York Sun, to break down the latest developments in Israel’s war against Hamas. With reports that Israel may fully occupy Gaza if no ceasefire or hostage deal is reached, Dovid explains the historical context, Israel’s strategic goals, and what a post-Hamas Gaza could look like. They also turn to Iran’s nuclear ambitions—what the U.S. and Israel’s diverging red lines really mean, and what the Trump administration should do next.
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
All right, what's next for Israel's war against Hamas. We
have people over at Axios, for example, sharing this that
Israel plans do the quote occupy and flatten all of
Gaza if no hostage and ceasefire deal is reached by
the end of President Trump's trip to the Middle East.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
That is from a fellow named Barack Ravid.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
David Ifoon joins us now and he is the publisher
of the New York Sun, and we're going to dive
into all this now, David, always good to.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
See you likewise, but.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Well, what do you make of this? I mean, this
is from Axios.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
They're saying that the next phase is to quote flatten
all of Gaza and occupy it if there are if
there's not a full release of all remaining hostages. What
can you tell us about the state of this war
and what happens next.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
It's interesting that you bring this up, Buck. You know,
I was in Israel back in two thousand and five
when Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip and I
hate to take you all the way back, but it
is relevant that was at the time Israel governed the
whole of the Gaza Strip. There was a lot of
international pressure regarding peacemaking. If you listeners will recall, Ariel
(01:35):
Sharon was the one who spearheaded this. He actually had
to form a new government in order to be able
to pull it off. He was encouraged at the time
by George W. Bush and Condoleeza Rice, but ultimately ended
up pulling all Israelis out of the Gaza Strip in
two thousand and five. I was there for all the protests.
I saw the chaos on the ground. I saw, you know,
some of you might remember the orange shirts. That was
(01:56):
kind of the banners, and the theme of the protests was
color orange. But you know, people were really screaming and
shouting about the disaster that they felt would unfold at
the time, and it so happens. You know, since Hamas
took over Gaza in two thousand and seven, which is
just two years after that pullout, I've now been in
the position where I've basically overseen coverage of five different
(02:20):
wars in Gaza, five different wars in Gaza, and what
has become quite apparent even throughout this latest round, is
that if you really do want a scenario where there
are no more wars in Gaza, which obviously is good
for the people of Israel, but more than the people
of Israel, even it's good for the people in Gaza,
(02:42):
you need to get rid of Hamas, and you need
to get rid of them completely. You know, to get
rid of eighty percent of Hamas or ninety percent of
Mamas is like getting rid of eighty or ninety percent
of a buyer. As some Israeli officials have put it,
it will sprout again and will take over again if
it's not if it is not completely excised, they have
Harmas has taken over every single element of society and
(03:05):
living in the Gaza strip. And you know, I think
at the beginning of this process, it seems he's really
sort of tried to see if they could figure out
how to get Hamas out of the picture using more
conventional methods. But it seems that they've arrived at the
conclusion that the only way to really do that is
to just sweep the slate entirely clean and stuff from
scratch again.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So does it seem like then it is true that
is there going to be some uh taking occupy, occupying
occupation of this area that is essentially like a DMZ.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Do you think that's is that going to be the plan?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I mean, it certainly looks like they're lining that up.
Is an option. You know, it would be easy for
everybody if Hamas just demilitarized, give up, the hostages, stepped
out of the picture. But it seems apparent they're not
going to do that. And if they aren't going to
do that, Israel is basically faced with two choices, right.
One choice is to kind of continue with the status
(04:04):
quote where Hamas is still placing a stranglehold on how
the flow of goods and aid circulate. They're still controlling
the lives of a lot of the people in Gaza.
They still have the capacity to wage water to some degree,
and obviously if they're left alone, they will continue to
be able to do that to a larger degree. So
that's option one. Option two is to just, you know what,
(04:28):
could completely take over and remove Hamas from power and
everything that relates to it and start again from scratch.
And you know, obviously that's not going to be easy.
It's not easy for Israel. They've got to put their
soldiers into hum'swey again. There's a huge mobilization effort now
in the south of Israel. I mean, people down there
tell me all the tanks are going down, all of
the reservists are being called up. I mean, they are
(04:50):
mobilizing right now for full scale war. So it's not
easy for Israel. It's not easy for gardens either, in
the sense that you know, a lot of garzens have
been displaced for a very long time. We're seeing now
what I think we believe for a long time that
a lot of gardens don't support Hamas. I mean, plenty
of gardens do support Hamas, but there are also gardens
(05:12):
that don't their effectivity living under a totalitarian regime where
every single aspect of their lives is owned by Hamas.
Their food, the medicine, their kids' lives is owned by Hamas.
So you know, it would certainly be a tough period.
But if at the end of it, there's a scenario
where there's no Hamas and you know, they can start
(05:33):
the process of rebuilding with new power structures. At least
certainly there's a real opportunity for Israelis to be free
and at peace, and also an opportunity for Garzen people
to finally live in a scenario where where they can
have direct relations with the world at large or why
the community, whether kids aren't being recruited for terror all
(05:53):
day and all night. They can have access, open access
to information and maybe create the embers of living in
a better world and a better future for themselves and
their families.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So is it then accurate you think to say that
the goal here, the strategy for the IDF, these really
defense forces, is the destruction of Hamas as an entity.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
That that is accurate? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
If this, if this war goes the way that it
seems to be, it's not beat back Hamas until they
are at a fraction of their normal or you know,
general strength. It is Hamas is effectively an issue no more.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Is that accurate? I mean, that's exactly accurate. And that's
why you know, when when officials are talking about flattening Gaza,
this is not kind of like a salt the Earth strategy.
It's it's it's actually quite pragmatic in the sense that
throughout the years that you know, Gaza has been built
up in the way that it's been built Hamas infrastructure
(06:51):
has been integrated into absolutely everything and everywhere. I mean,
there are you know, super high end apartment buildings in
Gaza that have you know, Hamas tunnels and Hamas infrastructure
built into them. A lot of them were funded by Katar,
by the way, and you know, it's hard to see
a scenario where Katar wasn't complicit in that. But I mean,
the only way to sort of know with certainty that
(07:13):
Hamas is gone is really to take an inch by
inch approach, and that involves, you know, looking under every
stone and every rock and every tunnel and every building,
and that's you know, what would be necessary in order
to achieve that result. I think that's it seems to
me that that is what the Israelis have determined. After
going at this for for nearly two years.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's been it's been a long fight already. How much
longer do you think it will take before they would
achieve that objective?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Well, I think you know when it has gone for
a long time. But just keep in mind that they've
been in different phases, right, There'll be phases where it's
paused for negotiations as phases, and then the various you know,
short term deals that have been enacted. But the other
thing to keep in mind is that Israeli society and
the Israeli Army is very much a citizen army, and
(08:06):
there are certain requirements that Israeli government has to keep
in mind. So for example, they can't keep reservists signed
up for more than three months. Right. Some of them,
you know, they have businesses, they have families. You know,
you have folks like you and me who have day jobs.
Suddenly they're called off to go and fight in Kaza,
and you know, some of them are startup entrepreneurs or
this or that. You know, it's they they got to
be able to come back to that. And then I
(08:28):
think also frankly, part of it is, you know, many
of the soldiers are students, they're in university, they're finishing
the semester. So on a practical basis, the summer is
a better time to mobilize the IDF, which is probably
why you're seeing this sort of timeline emerging. But yeah,
I mean, if they're at full scale and they're you know,
(08:48):
focused on getting the job done, I think it's weeks,
especially being as Hamas is so depleted as it is now,
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
We'll come back and talk about Iran here in a
second with Dovid Ifoon of the New York Sun. Our
sponsor is Birch Gold Group. Terriffs, as you know, cause
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Gold and silver bullion are excluded from the tariffs and
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Speaker 3 (09:17):
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free info KD today. Now Iran, you've started to hear
some talk, David that even in the US and the
Pentagon there's a disagreement about how Iran and its nuclear
(10:14):
program should be should be handled. What are we to
think about this because for so many years now I
can't even begin to countertrack it. We've been told Iran
is getting closer, Iran is so close, Iran is closer
than it's ever been right, and we say, okay, well,
what are we doing or what does that mean? What
(10:34):
do you think the posture of Israel is right now
with the Iranian nuclear program? And what should the Trump
administration be doing?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well? Look, first of all, just to put a line
under sort of the contrasting visions for how to deal
with Iran, the view of the if I'm administration, for example,
And frankly, you know, at certain times and from certain
people in the Trump administration, you hear the same thing
the Europeans. You hear Iran cannot be allowed to get
(11:08):
a nuclear weapon, right. The position of the Israelis is
Iran cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons capability, which
are two completely different ideas. One is that Iran might
have the tools in its kitchen to create a nuclear weapon,
but we're not gonna allow them to push the button,
and the Israelis always maintained, well, that's very risky. You
(11:30):
kind of have to trust the Iranians if you're going
to allow them to have the whole setup. We want
a scenario where they're not just pulling out the plug
from the machines, but they are dismantling the machines entirely,
and the and the weapons production capability. So that's been
kind of a source of a big disagreement for a
long time. And you know, I think in the early days,
(11:52):
you know, with Witgoff and others sort of talking about
engaging with Iran, they were using similar language to the
above administration, which certainly had the Israelis alarmed. But more recently,
you know, the language has been more precise in the
sense that they're saying, we don't want to allow nuclear
weapons capability. I mean, look, at the end of the day,
the best way to deal with this is for the
(12:14):
Iranians to understand that they have a really serious amount
at stake if they continue to pursue it and to
undo the progress that they've done on their own, which
is obviously really difficult, but there is I would say
a window now, an opportunity. Now Iran is incredibly weak
(12:34):
and incredibly isolated. The Trump administration has shown this ability
to be super tough on Iran in terms of sanctions,
and I think if they really ratchet up the pressure
and they it seems like they've at least opened up
a willingness to do so, there is the possibility of
achieving that outcome without the need for any military intervention. Obviously,
(12:57):
having a credible threat for military intervention is part of
what it takes to get the Iranians to take this seriously.
The other factor, which of course is significant and should
not be underestimate, tool is the degree of internal opposition
that you have in Iran, and the weakening of the
regime by the Trump administration of buying the international community
(13:20):
by definition strengthens the internal opposition within the country. So
the two peaceful ways are, you know, pressure that is
absolutely ascruciating on the Iranian regime, that that you know,
convinces it that it's worth getting rid of the nuclear
program or and possibly simultaneously, the strengthening of the internal
(13:42):
opposition to the point where regime changes is a real threat.
But in the end of the day, you know, the
military option, you know, needs to be on the table,
either as a as a practical last resort or as
you know, a very firm alternative pathway that is presented
to the any regime to the extent that they're looking
(14:03):
at these conversations and taking them really seriously.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Talk about the campus anti semitism stuff here a second.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
At first up.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
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c K. I don't know if you saw, but Bill
Ackman talking about that there needs to be some change
at Harvard at the very at the very top level.
I think in the Board of Overseers or that you know,
the whatever it is, you know, you giving me a face,
what you don't you don't like your you want the
(15:21):
Harvard board to stay the same.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
What do you think about this?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I don't know. I think it's it's insane what's going
on there. And I don't want to compare campus to
Gaza and Hamas, But you know, these kind of ideas
are just so deeply integrated into every level of some
of these elite liberal institutions in this country that it's
(15:45):
hot to see that any of these changes, superficial changes
are really going to make a difference. I mean, the
truth is, you want to change Harbor, you've got to
fire half the professors and bring in people with alternative views. Now,
what are the chances of that happening? You know, you're
going to change the overseers. Are they going to do that?
Is anybody going to do that? Like, if you really
want to have an open minded institution where you have
(16:06):
free debate, free discussion, free ideas, you can't have ninety
eight percent of all of the personnel being sort of
apparatics for the Soviets or you know, whatever the liberal
the work zeitgeist is at that particular time. So the
truth is, I think the more realistic pathway is not
(16:27):
that Harvard's going to change or Yale it's going to change.
Is that alternative institutions are going to displace them. And
you know, you're already seeing sort of what they call
the Ivyes of the South. I know, in the Jewish community,
it used to be a huge badge of honor to
go to Harvard or Yale or this or that. Now
a lot of parents are telling their kids, you know,
what you pick something else, you know, it's just not
(16:48):
worth it. And the truth is, if you have to
think about it big picture, you know, those are very
powerful brands, but they should not take for granted just
how quickly big brands can become devalued. I mean, you
saw what happened with bud Light or this or that.
You know, if that Zeit guy sort of takes hold,
(17:08):
you know, the brand of Harvard and the brand of
Yale will just not have carry the same weight or
the same value that they've carried in the past. You know,
in the end of the day, frankly, you know, Harvard Yale,
if we're talking about anti Semitism, they need their Jews
more than the Jews need need Harvard. That's the truth,
(17:29):
because you know, if there is a boycott, if people
aren't sending their kids there, if Jewish or as ready,
professors don't want to teach there, if if they don't
want to engage in you know, shared research programs, you
know you'll end up with just this rabbel, you know
echo chamber of kind of like radicals, and they'll just
you know, feed off each other and eat each other alive.
(17:51):
And you know it'll be the end of these great institutions,
and certainly what Trump's doing on the on the money
is gonna certainly accelerate that significant.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Do you agree with with that position from Trump that
if these places don't clean up their rack, they should
stop getting the federal dollars they're getting.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think so in the sense that you know, there
federal dollars always have strings attached, right, It's not like
a given, it's not a right to get to get
money from the government. And like in a lot of
these institutions, there's real like reverse discrimination, right, and it's
you know, it's not just Jewish students, but like I
(18:31):
don't know, Christian white men probably feel isolated in a
very similar way and other kind of groups. But you know,
you really have a scenario where it's no longer a
merits based system, and it's you know, it's class based,
or it's race based, or it's this or that. And
for to have an expectation then that the US government,
(18:51):
namely the taxpayer you and me, should have to pay
for that, it's completely reasonable to say, well, you know what,
this is not what the American people, how the American
people want us to spend their money.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
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the latest you're doing.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Come enway son, don't come.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I'm sorry, that's I think. And why in New York? Yes?
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We want to make it easy. We're don't have to
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Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know it's fantastic.
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And how are you doing by you know, I'm a
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veteran of daddom, what is your fatherhood? What is your
best advice for year one?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Dad?
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Best advice? You know? Academics are overrated. Try and put
all your focus on values.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
All right? Wow, there we go. Dominic food everybody, I'll
give you. That's all right. Hey, we'll take it. Thank you,
my friend. Good to see you.
You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
All right, what's next for Israel's war against Hamas. We
have people over at Axios, for example, sharing this that
Israel plans do the quote occupy and flatten all of
Gaza if no hostage and ceasefire deal is reached by
the end of President Trump's trip to the Middle East.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
That is from a fellow named Barack Ravid.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
David Ifoon joins us now and he is the publisher
of the New York Sun, and we're going to dive
into all this now, David, always good to.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
See you likewise, but.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Well, what do you make of this? I mean, this
is from Axios.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
They're saying that the next phase is to quote flatten
all of Gaza and occupy it if there are if
there's not a full release of all remaining hostages. What
can you tell us about the state of this war
and what happens next.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
It's interesting that you bring this up, Buck. You know,
I was in Israel back in two thousand and five
when Israel pulled out of the Gaza strip and I
hate to take you all the way back, but it
is relevant that was at the time Israel governed the
whole of the Gaza Strip. There was a lot of
international pressure regarding peacemaking. If you listeners will recall, Ariel
(01:35):
Sharon was the one who spearheaded this. He actually had
to form a new government in order to be able
to pull it off. He was encouraged at the time
by George W. Bush and Condoleeza Rice, but ultimately ended
up pulling all Israelis out of the Gaza Strip in
two thousand and five. I was there for all the protests.
I saw the chaos on the ground. I saw, you know,
some of you might remember the orange shirts. That was
(01:56):
kind of the banners, and the theme of the protests was
color orange. But you know, people were really screaming and
shouting about the disaster that they felt would unfold at
the time, and it so happens. You know, since Hamas
took over Gaza in two thousand and seven, which is
just two years after that pullout, I've now been in
the position where I've basically overseen coverage of five different
(02:20):
wars in Gaza, five different wars in Gaza, and what
has become quite apparent even throughout this latest round, is
that if you really do want a scenario where there
are no more wars in Gaza, which obviously is good
for the people of Israel, but more than the people
of Israel, even it's good for the people in Gaza,
(02:42):
you need to get rid of Hamas, and you need
to get rid of them completely. You know, to get
rid of eighty percent of Hamas or ninety percent of
Mamas is like getting rid of eighty or ninety percent
of a buyer. As some Israeli officials have put it,
it will sprout again and will take over again if
it's not if it is not completely excised, they have
Harmas has taken over every single element of society and
(03:05):
living in the Gaza strip. And you know, I think
at the beginning of this process, it seems he's really
sort of tried to see if they could figure out
how to get Hamas out of the picture using more
conventional methods. But it seems that they've arrived at the
conclusion that the only way to really do that is
to just sweep the slate entirely clean and stuff from
scratch again.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So does it seem like then it is true that
is there going to be some uh taking occupy, occupying
occupation of this area that is essentially like a DMZ.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Do you think that's is that going to be the plan?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I mean, it certainly looks like they're lining that up.
Is an option. You know, it would be easy for
everybody if Hamas just demilitarized, give up, the hostages, stepped
out of the picture. But it seems apparent they're not
going to do that. And if they aren't going to
do that, Israel is basically faced with two choices, right.
One choice is to kind of continue with the status
(04:04):
quote where Hamas is still placing a stranglehold on how
the flow of goods and aid circulate. They're still controlling
the lives of a lot of the people in Gaza.
They still have the capacity to wage water to some degree,
and obviously if they're left alone, they will continue to
be able to do that to a larger degree. So
that's option one. Option two is to just, you know what,
(04:28):
could completely take over and remove Hamas from power and
everything that relates to it and start again from scratch.
And you know, obviously that's not going to be easy.
It's not easy for Israel. They've got to put their
soldiers into hum'swey again. There's a huge mobilization effort now
in the south of Israel. I mean, people down there
tell me all the tanks are going down, all of
the reservists are being called up. I mean, they are
(04:50):
mobilizing right now for full scale war. So it's not
easy for Israel. It's not easy for gardens either, in
the sense that you know, a lot of garzens have
been displaced for a very long time. We're seeing now
what I think we believe for a long time that
a lot of gardens don't support Hamas. I mean, plenty
of gardens do support Hamas, but there are also gardens
(05:12):
that don't their effectivity living under a totalitarian regime where
every single aspect of their lives is owned by Hamas.
Their food, the medicine, their kids' lives is owned by Hamas.
So you know, it would certainly be a tough period.
But if at the end of it, there's a scenario
where there's no Hamas and you know, they can start
(05:33):
the process of rebuilding with new power structures. At least
certainly there's a real opportunity for Israelis to be free
and at peace, and also an opportunity for Garzen people
to finally live in a scenario where where they can
have direct relations with the world at large or why
the community, whether kids aren't being recruited for terror all
(05:53):
day and all night. They can have access, open access
to information and maybe create the embers of living in
a better world and a better future for themselves and
their families.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So is it then accurate you think to say that
the goal here, the strategy for the IDF, these really
defense forces, is the destruction of Hamas as an entity.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
That that is accurate? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
If this, if this war goes the way that it
seems to be, it's not beat back Hamas until they
are at a fraction of their normal or you know,
general strength. It is Hamas is effectively an issue no more.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Is that accurate? I mean, that's exactly accurate. And that's
why you know, when when officials are talking about flattening Gaza,
this is not kind of like a salt the Earth strategy.
It's it's it's actually quite pragmatic in the sense that
throughout the years that you know, Gaza has been built
up in the way that it's been built Hamas infrastructure
(06:51):
has been integrated into absolutely everything and everywhere. I mean,
there are you know, super high end apartment buildings in
Gaza that have you know, Hamas tunnels and Hamas infrastructure
built into them. A lot of them were funded by Katar,
by the way, and you know, it's hard to see
a scenario where Katar wasn't complicit in that. But I mean,
the only way to sort of know with certainty that
(07:13):
Hamas is gone is really to take an inch by
inch approach, and that involves, you know, looking under every
stone and every rock and every tunnel and every building,
and that's you know, what would be necessary in order
to achieve that result. I think that's it seems to
me that that is what the Israelis have determined. After
going at this for for nearly two years.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's been it's been a long fight already. How much
longer do you think it will take before they would
achieve that objective?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Well, I think you know when it has gone for
a long time. But just keep in mind that they've
been in different phases, right, There'll be phases where it's
paused for negotiations as phases, and then the various you know,
short term deals that have been enacted. But the other
thing to keep in mind is that Israeli society and
the Israeli Army is very much a citizen army, and
(08:06):
there are certain requirements that Israeli government has to keep
in mind. So for example, they can't keep reservists signed
up for more than three months. Right. Some of them,
you know, they have businesses, they have families. You know,
you have folks like you and me who have day jobs.
Suddenly they're called off to go and fight in Kaza,
and you know, some of them are startup entrepreneurs or
this or that. You know, it's they they got to
be able to come back to that. And then I
(08:28):
think also frankly, part of it is, you know, many
of the soldiers are students, they're in university, they're finishing
the semester. So on a practical basis, the summer is
a better time to mobilize the IDF, which is probably
why you're seeing this sort of timeline emerging. But yeah,
I mean, if they're at full scale and they're you know,
(08:48):
focused on getting the job done, I think it's weeks,
especially being as Hamas is so depleted as it is now,
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
We'll come back and talk about Iran here in a
second with Dovid Ifoon of the New York Sun. Our
sponsor is Birch Gold Group. Terriffs, as you know, cause
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Gold and silver bullion are excluded from the tariffs and
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Speaker 3 (09:17):
Some issues in the markets.
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free info KD today. Now Iran, you've started to hear
some talk, David that even in the US and the
Pentagon there's a disagreement about how Iran and its nuclear
(10:14):
program should be should be handled. What are we to
think about this because for so many years now I
can't even begin to countertrack it. We've been told Iran
is getting closer, Iran is so close, Iran is closer
than it's ever been right, and we say, okay, well,
what are we doing or what does that mean? What
(10:34):
do you think the posture of Israel is right now
with the Iranian nuclear program? And what should the Trump
administration be doing?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well? Look, first of all, just to put a line
under sort of the contrasting visions for how to deal
with Iran, the view of the if I'm administration, for example,
And frankly, you know, at certain times and from certain
people in the Trump administration, you hear the same thing
the Europeans. You hear Iran cannot be allowed to get
(11:08):
a nuclear weapon, right. The position of the Israelis is
Iran cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons capability, which
are two completely different ideas. One is that Iran might
have the tools in its kitchen to create a nuclear weapon,
but we're not gonna allow them to push the button,
and the Israelis always maintained, well, that's very risky. You
(11:30):
kind of have to trust the Iranians if you're going
to allow them to have the whole setup. We want
a scenario where they're not just pulling out the plug
from the machines, but they are dismantling the machines entirely,
and the and the weapons production capability. So that's been
kind of a source of a big disagreement for a
long time. And you know, I think in the early days,
(11:52):
you know, with Witgoff and others sort of talking about
engaging with Iran, they were using similar language to the
above administration, which certainly had the Israelis alarmed. But more recently,
you know, the language has been more precise in the
sense that they're saying, we don't want to allow nuclear
weapons capability. I mean, look, at the end of the day,
the best way to deal with this is for the
(12:14):
Iranians to understand that they have a really serious amount
at stake if they continue to pursue it and to
undo the progress that they've done on their own, which
is obviously really difficult, but there is I would say
a window now, an opportunity. Now Iran is incredibly weak
(12:34):
and incredibly isolated. The Trump administration has shown this ability
to be super tough on Iran in terms of sanctions,
and I think if they really ratchet up the pressure
and they it seems like they've at least opened up
a willingness to do so, there is the possibility of
achieving that outcome without the need for any military intervention. Obviously,
(12:57):
having a credible threat for military intervention is part of
what it takes to get the Iranians to take this seriously.
The other factor, which of course is significant and should
not be underestimate, tool is the degree of internal opposition
that you have in Iran, and the weakening of the
regime by the Trump administration of buying the international community
(13:20):
by definition strengthens the internal opposition within the country. So
the two peaceful ways are, you know, pressure that is
absolutely ascruciating on the Iranian regime, that that you know,
convinces it that it's worth getting rid of the nuclear
program or and possibly simultaneously, the strengthening of the internal
(13:42):
opposition to the point where regime changes is a real threat.
But in the end of the day, you know, the
military option, you know, needs to be on the table,
either as a as a practical last resort or as
you know, a very firm alternative pathway that is presented
to the any regime to the extent that they're looking
(14:03):
at these conversations and taking them really seriously.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Talk about the campus anti semitism stuff here a second.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
At first up.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
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c K. I don't know if you saw, but Bill
Ackman talking about that there needs to be some change
at Harvard at the very at the very top level.
I think in the Board of Overseers or that you know,
the whatever it is, you know, you giving me a face,
what you don't you don't like your you want the
(15:21):
Harvard board to stay the same.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
What do you think about this?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I don't know. I think it's it's insane what's going
on there. And I don't want to compare campus to
Gaza and Hamas, But you know, these kind of ideas
are just so deeply integrated into every level of some
of these elite liberal institutions in this country that it's
(15:45):
hot to see that any of these changes, superficial changes
are really going to make a difference. I mean, the
truth is, you want to change Harbor, you've got to
fire half the professors and bring in people with alternative views. Now,
what are the chances of that happening? You know, you're
going to change the overseers. Are they going to do that?
Is anybody going to do that? Like, if you really
want to have an open minded institution where you have
(16:06):
free debate, free discussion, free ideas, you can't have ninety
eight percent of all of the personnel being sort of
apparatics for the Soviets or you know, whatever the liberal
the work zeitgeist is at that particular time. So the
truth is, I think the more realistic pathway is not
(16:27):
that Harvard's going to change or Yale it's going to change.
Is that alternative institutions are going to displace them. And
you know, you're already seeing sort of what they call
the Ivyes of the South. I know, in the Jewish community,
it used to be a huge badge of honor to
go to Harvard or Yale or this or that. Now
a lot of parents are telling their kids, you know,
what you pick something else, you know, it's just not
(16:48):
worth it. And the truth is, if you have to
think about it big picture, you know, those are very
powerful brands, but they should not take for granted just
how quickly big brands can become devalued. I mean, you
saw what happened with bud Light or this or that.
You know, if that Zeit guy sort of takes hold,
(17:08):
you know, the brand of Harvard and the brand of
Yale will just not have carry the same weight or
the same value that they've carried in the past. You know,
in the end of the day, frankly, you know, Harvard Yale,
if we're talking about anti Semitism, they need their Jews
more than the Jews need need Harvard. That's the truth,
(17:29):
because you know, if there is a boycott, if people
aren't sending their kids there, if Jewish or as ready,
professors don't want to teach there, if if they don't
want to engage in you know, shared research programs, you
know you'll end up with just this rabbel, you know
echo chamber of kind of like radicals, and they'll just
you know, feed off each other and eat each other alive.
(17:51):
And you know it'll be the end of these great institutions,
and certainly what Trump's doing on the on the money
is gonna certainly accelerate that significant.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Do you agree with with that position from Trump that
if these places don't clean up their rack, they should
stop getting the federal dollars they're getting.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think so in the sense that you know, there
federal dollars always have strings attached, right, It's not like
a given, it's not a right to get to get
money from the government. And like in a lot of
these institutions, there's real like reverse discrimination, right, and it's
you know, it's not just Jewish students, but like I
(18:31):
don't know, Christian white men probably feel isolated in a
very similar way and other kind of groups. But you know,
you really have a scenario where it's no longer a
merits based system, and it's you know, it's class based,
or it's race based, or it's this or that. And
for to have an expectation then that the US government,
(18:51):
namely the taxpayer you and me, should have to pay
for that, it's completely reasonable to say, well, you know what,
this is not what the American people, how the American
people want us to spend their money.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, absolutely our sponsors IFCJ International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
You know that just like here in the US, Israel
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gift at eight to eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's
eight A eight four eight eight four three two five,
or go online at IFCJ dot org. Dovid thanks so
much for being here is always where folks just go
to assume New York Sun dot com right check out
the latest you're doing.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Come enway son, don't come.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I'm sorry, that's I think. And why in New York? Yes?
N why son? And why new York? Sun At.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
We want to make it easy. We're don't have to
ask people to spell out new York.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
And how are you doing by you know, I'm a
dad now and your dad or your dad four to
four times over before we let you go? What is
your your your year one best bit of as a
veteran of daddom, what is your fatherhood? What is your
best advice for year one?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Dad?
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Best advice? You know? Academics are overrated. Try and put
all your focus on values.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
All right? Wow, there we go. Dominic food everybody, I'll
give you. That's all right. Hey, we'll take it. Thank you,
my friend. Good to see you.
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