July 16, 2025 • 49 mins
📍Rut is joined by Dan Hollaway from the Citizen and Drinking Bros podcasts to dissect the growing divide within the MAGA movement. They tackle audience capture, foreign influence campaigns, Trump’s recent controversies, the failure of political leadership, and the desperate need for principled action in America. If you care about liberty, truth, and reclaiming the mission — this is a must-listen.
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - The MAGA Divide
20:19 - The Epstein Coverup Fallout
32:09 - Audience Capture of Conservative Pundits
40:29 - Can Trump Come Back From This?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are you a citizen of the United States who cares
about what's going on, especially the division that's taking place
in the MAGA movement. Well, don't miss it, because I've
got the host of the Citizen Podcast, Dan Holloway, on
the David Rutherford Show. All Right, everybody, thank you so
much for joining me. You know, after a Monday show
(00:23):
called the MAGA Split, I wanted to bring on somebody
that I believe really is tracking this at the most granual,
lever level, but also as bringing forth a really well
thought out application to all of the things that are
driving the split. For whether it's the you know, the
(00:45):
anti war movement, or whether it's the Epstein files, or
whether it's the land sale, whatever it might be. The
one individual that I really truly believe that has just
a profound insight on all these things is mister Dan
Holloway with the Citizen Podcast, who's also on one of
my favorites, the Drinking Brothers Podcast. So, ladies and gentlemen,
(01:07):
mister Dan Holloway, how are you doing, Dan, I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
How are you well?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I'll tell you what, after three months of finally getting
a show back up and running, I think I finally
am starting to find a little bit of a tempo
and a little bit of.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Understanding of what this thing's gonna look like.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
But certainly when you had me on about four months ago,
that really got me got me thinking about what I
needed to do because of how well you do it.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, it's it takes a little
while to get into a rhythm, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It does? You know.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I took you know, probably two and a half years
off and I was like, oh, I got this, It's easy.
And then like my first month, I was trying to
figure out, all right, that doesn't work. That doesn't work.
So yeah, finally, well listen, let's let's get into it.
I know you're busy man, As I was saying in
the intro, you know, I did show released it Monday
(02:03):
on the MAGA split, and I've been watching. You've been
all over a lot of the people on both sides.
Whether you know, I'm still trying to really define what
woke right is right from James, Lindsay and Peterson and
all that. But there's a definite division amongst the different people.
(02:23):
So as you see this, how are you looking at this?
Where do you see the splits taking place, and what
are kind of the tributaries of division that are kind
of breaking out within the MAGA movement.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Sure, yeah, I mean, I guess it helps to start
at the granular level, right, the United States is the
simple idea that individual liberty and personal entrepreneurship are the
ultimate inoculation to tyranny. That's what we believe here, right.
We believe that when the state is large, the individual
is small. Now, with that, and this is kind of
(02:59):
the purpose of my show, citizen, with that comes a
litany of responsibilities, right, Like I believe the phrase from
one of our founders was a republic if you can
keep it right, And the presumption there is that it
requires your constant maintenance and vigilance.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Now, it is true that we are.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Aimed towards liberty above all else, and that decentralization is
probably the best way, so far as we could tell,
to handle that sort of stuff. And that means the
diffusion of power amongst a lower and a greater number
of people, and at a lower level. Certainly, that's what
federalism is meant to do. Right in tend to meend
to the constitution. Now, certain the thing that I will
(03:43):
also say is that most people aren't leaders. That's just
how life is, right, and there are quite a few
pew I think, people that take the time to come
and there's degrees of it, right, like not everybody is
a top level leader, but a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Are middle management.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I mean, if you're a if you're a parent, then
you're you're the manager of your household. I think I
don't remember who's originally said it, but the lowest form
of government is your house, right, your family. And as such,
I really think that people need to be led. And
that isn't and and and and it when we talk
about stuff like this, it kind of betrays, uh the
(04:25):
one of the fundamental flaws of our decentralized system, and
every system has one. Ours are just happens to be
this and it's, in my opinion, manageable, which is that
you know, people are lazy and they don't want to
put in the effort required of them to get the
outcome they desire.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And that you.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Know that when you when you talk about you know,
from our perspective is as gunfighter types, how can I
exploit my enemy's weakness? That's the number one weakness in
the United States. Uh, and it is that there are
all these gaps in our defense where effort could solve them,
but it won't because they don't it's not going to
(05:07):
be present.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So and we had talked about that before. That's intellectual weakness. Yes,
that's actionable weakness, that's resilience weakness. It's the whole gambit, right.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, and then you know, so to solve that
kind of thing, there's this So Marcus Aurelius once said,
stop talking about what a good man is in B one, right,
and I think let's stop talking about what a leader
is in B one.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
This is the thing that we need desperately, and we don't.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Have it because we have a lot of people who
are benefiting from the system in a lot of ways, right,
people that are let's say, people that are on welfare,
the politicians that are selling them that welfare on both
sides of the aisle.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
This is not a democratic situation. It happens from both sides.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
And then, of course, in the ecosphere, the people that
are meant to be I guess the middle management leaders,
the communicators, A lot of them, whether they know it
or not, have been captured either by their audience, or
by some foreign adversary, or even by you know, propaganda
within our own government. Now you'll hear people talk about
(06:12):
how Katar does this. I mean, forget about all that crap.
That's not even necessary to bring up what actually like,
foreign governments for the most part, are not paying specific
individuals to do anything. To your point, for before about
these bot forms, that's not at all how it works.
What actually happens is the foreign government primarily China, Russia
(06:35):
to some degree, North Korea to some degree a RAN,
but a RAN is mostly a cutout of China in
that regard. And then you know, Israel does it as well,
The United States does it overseas, and probably here as well.
I think USAID probably funded some of this stuff. But
they'll take an extremist position like some dipshit.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Can I swear on the show.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I don't know which kind of shit were absolutely some
dipshit like Nick Fuintes will say something crazy and he'll
couch it. He'll say some accurate stuff, and then they'll
say something fucking stupid, right, and thousands of these bot
farm accounts will come in and say oh yeah, this that,
and people you know, fall into these traps. One of
them is called bandwagon fallacy, which is where if enough
(07:15):
people believe it, that means I should believe it too.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, that's not true.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
It's literally a logical fallacy, right, So you should inspect
the information on its merit.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That should be the first thing.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Now, there are a lot of indicators about how this
stuff happens on It's quite a bit easier on Instagram
because you could see who likes what. So here's something
I would recommend you do. If you see somebody post
something that's a long reel or a meme or something
that's you know, clearly meant to inflame people. If you
see something like that, look at the comments section. Don't
(07:48):
worry about what the content of it is moving forward,
Just look at the comment section and find people, you know,
just hover over accounts that are responding to it and
find people that have that a lot of people in
very low follower accounts, and just find like two of them,
and then go look at other people making extreme comments
(08:08):
to boost that post, and then look and see if
that original two people like those posts. Then you've identified
a little BOTFM. That's how it works, right, So you
know this isn't new or clever. Nielsen has been caught
doing this with the cable black boxes a bunch of times,
including in India as late as like twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I think they got so in India for it.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So you know, this kind of manipulation has happened a
lot before. What I would say is, you know, we
have some really deep misunderstandings about what these foreign adversaries
are trying to do, like the Russia collusion hoax, right,
which is complete nonsense made a lot of people on
the left think that the whole purpose of Russian influence
(08:48):
was to get Donald Trump elected. That is not the case.
Their purpose is always chaos, right. They want they want
two things. They want Americans not to trust or talk
to each other, right, and they want to infiltrate our
systems with Marxism, our communications, our education, all of our
systems with Marxism.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
That is their goal, right.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
So if you think about it from that standpoint, you
and this now I'm speaking to the individual creators as well.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
If you see these.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Bot farms engaging and promoting your posts, you should ask
yourself why, even if the information is true, right, you
should still ask yourself, well, why is my enemy coming
to my defense. Right now, what does that say about
my position or what does it say about what they're
trying to do. I'm not telling you to act any
certain way. I just want people to observe what's happening,
because I don't think that people like being tricked. I
think it really pisses me off when somebody tries to
(09:38):
influence me like that. And I think the average person,
even though they need to be led like, not everyone's
going to not everyone's going to be a political science
scholar or an economic scholar, right, That's just not how
life works. You've got a job to do, so we
need to be able to depend on people in the
public sphere to some degree and the expert class, which
we've completely lost in this country, to do their fucking job.
(09:58):
Like that is your and you need to take it
seriously and do it in a good way. And if
you're being influenced and infiltrated by these foreign averse series,
this is not going to happen, right. So I think
it's all part of this ecosystem where there are people
that I like out there in the public that are
being influenced in this way, and I try to tell
them about it.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Like, hey, I like you, but look at what's happening
right here. This is not good.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Because it is all of our job leader or not
to hold each other accountable.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
That's what this community is supposed to be about.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I agree. I think that's a great way to evaluate it.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That The challenge though is, you know, and this goes
back which I remember, you know, when the whole fiasco
of Douglas Murray and Dave Smith on Rogan and that
whole thing, and well you weren't there, And it's the
classification of expertise, right, And like you said, I think
(10:54):
really as a result of COVID, we had a collapse
in confidence in the experts for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And so now moving forward.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
It's it's you have, uh, comedians like Dave Smith, who
is an impassioned anti war libertarian. I guess, you know,
then you have you know, you have other people, uh
like James Lindsay, who is obviously smart guy, understands communism
at an ultimate level. But then as projecting along with
(11:25):
Jordan Peterson that if you post a certain way, you
fit the you know, the psychotic triad. And so it's
like I see both people becoming more extreme in order
to refine their stance. And what you said, which was
I thought really interesting, was that component about audience capture
(11:48):
and and so you get these bot farms that will
come in and reinforce your point, and you are like, oh,
well I'm more and reinforced, I'm more that I'm right,
I'm over the target. This is what my audience wants
to see. Explain a little bit more about how you
(12:08):
how you try and assess these things with people online
and then often in private too, because I'm sure you
reach out to people that you know personally and say I.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
So I think the most important thing that you can
do as a thinker is to reduce things down to
their fundamental level, what we would call first principles.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Right, I think that's the most important thing.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
And I've given this example a number of times recently,
but for your audience, I'll give it again. One of
the longest running and most vicious debates in America politically speaking,
has been over healthcare. And as someone who leans towards
the conservative side, somebody from the left will say, I
think we should have free health care. In my mind,
(12:53):
like alarm bells are going off in my head, obviously, right, like, well, one,
nothing's free, and to the group that you think that's
is administering this.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Is not going to do a very good job. Blah
blah blah ah that stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Okay, Well I can say all that, and I can
start an argument with this person and then we will
converse about our argument, will both state our points, and
then we'll walk away.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
That's how that goes.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Or you know, and I'm not telling you to capitulate,
I'm telling you to understand. Or you could do this,
You could say what you could take this person at
their best possible first principle meeting, which is that and
the richest country in the history of the world. It
is almost assuredly unethical to tell people they could be
as healthy as they can afford to be when they're
getting a shit text taxed out of them and there
(13:35):
are all these predatory systems out there. That is something
that I fundamentally agree with. Actually, right, So now we're
talking about the solution to that problem rather than ignoring
the problem.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Entirely, because this is what happens if you man if it.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Just because you don't agree with somebody's solution to a
problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if you pretend
that problem doesn't exist, then people you don't like and
you don't agree with will come in and solve that
problem on your behalf, and it is going to be
in a way that you don't like, and it probably
disadvantages you to some degree. Your participation in this is required,
and the only way to participate fully is to do
(14:10):
that to fully understand that person's position. So you know,
to the first principal thing on what people like James
would call the woke, right, Okay, so he doesn't mean
they're woke in the way that their protrands or any
of this stuff, the way that we kind of casually
define it. What he's saying is that they want These
(14:31):
people want power. There's this old saying.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It's kind of a.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
It's not old, actually, it's kind of it's a newer saying.
But there's this like refrain about Marxism. Call everything oppressive
until you own it, right, That's that's their baseline strategy,
and it's about power. It has nothing to do with
principles or anything like that. And you can see it.
These people that are that are that are Marxist folks
(14:58):
who were perfectly happy be locking you down and trying
to force vaccinate you. They were still going out to
the French laundry, you know, with no mask on. You
know for a fact they didn't believe it. This uh
what's his name, Mark Kelly from Arizona. When Elon was
getting cozy with the administration, he traded in his Tesla,
not for another electric vehicle, by the way, but for
(15:21):
a V eight GMC, the same one I drive as
a matter of fact, Right, so you know that these
people have no root and principle. They're full of shit,
every single one of them. So people that are trying
to gain power, right, and as such, they are using
the tools to gain power in lieu of the tools
to decentralize or empowered people. That is woke, right, that
(15:43):
those are the tool belt. I'm sorry, that is the
tool belt of the woke actor. So don't confuse it
with and I don't use the phrase woke right because
I think it's just it requires too much time like
this to explain what it means. Right, I just call
him assholes to be honest. But James is a j
is a nerd, right, so he's going to do that.
But they're using the same power or the same tools
(16:07):
to gain power. Right, And you can see it all
the time. When's the last time a Republican decentralized anything?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Right? And when you see these people who are what
I consider to be cultists for their political parties on
either side, whenever they get into power, it's never about
returning things to normal.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
It's about I've got power, Now, what am I going
to do with it? Nope, I'm sorry, that's not the
right answer, my friend.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I hope you're enjoying the show. I just wanted to
step in real quick and just let you know that
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(17:42):
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(18:04):
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Speaker 3 (18:18):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Right detracting actually going back or living up to promises
in the cycle of you know, getting people to believe
in what you believe. Now, I think you know this
cycle was one of the most unique cycles I've ever
been paying attention.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And you know, mild Man, was you know, always very.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
In tune with what was going on politically, and and
you know, he grew up in the late sixties, went
to University of Michigan when Abby Hoffman was there, and
you know, just so as an attorney and so always
that's right, that's right, and always had this And I
remember vividly as a young boy, you know, watching sixty
Minutes with him and him being like, well, this is
(19:03):
this and this is this, and I was like, oh,
this is cool, you know. And for me, my big
transition was, uh when we invaded Iraq the first time,
and you know, I think I was eighteen years old.
I was up in Connecticut at boarding school, and it
was like, oh shit, there's something bigger at play. Well,
I think now what's taking place in particularly over that
(19:26):
last cycle, like everything has become it's the end of
the world. And you pointed a little bit of this out.
I think with the whole Iran Israel bombing, you're like,
all right, everybody that's talking about World War three and
if we go and there's going to be you know,
seventy million Americans dead in the first five you know,
you're like, everybody, just shut up.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
And I love the example that you gave and.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
About the first Trump term where you know, we went
in and we took out the guy who was the
head of the ig R what is it, the IRG,
I RGC, thank you, and nothing was done as a result.
And so what I what I what I'm asking you
is is you're obviously saying, all right, figure out what
(20:12):
that defining principle is and then move into the argument.
But is there a place where where is there a
legitimate argument right now? Let's take the hottest issue on
a thing I just saw today fifty posts Dan Bongino's
leaving the FBI, he had to take a day off,
right cash Betel and hear Fuman Pambani's on the chopping
(20:35):
board because of the collapse and Trumps whatever the Epstein thing.
Why is this such a divisive concept within the MAGA
movement right now? And why do you think like this
is one of those core principal ideas to really flush
out in order to get everybody. I don't know what,
(20:57):
I don't know what the outcome is, Like, how do
you assemble everybody in a concise manner to get some
final not even finality, but just some exposure. Right What
would be your suggestion in this or in your explanation
of it. Sorry that was long winded.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Positive, No, No, I've got some notes.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
People think that we all learned our lesson from all
the lockdown and Biden's stuff because we re elected Trump,
but clearly that's not the case. Clearly, anybody that's arguing
against publishing whatever we have on Epstein is full of shit. Right,
That's certainly not what they were saying six months ago
when it was like on day one, on day one,
(21:38):
on day one, So that person has either abandoned or
never had principles.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
That's just how it is.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
What I would refer to as an intellectual club, right,
they don't belong in the conversation. They need to be
told what to think, frankly, and I did. That's a
sad reality, but that is what it is. And there's
another example of it. We were all against omnibus bills
twelve months ago. We were fighting hard to make sure
that never happened again, and we were promised it would
not at least in this term. And now it's awesome
(22:07):
because Trump renamed it. I'm sorry, that doesn't that doesn't
that Losa doesn't track for me. You were either principled
or you are not principled. That is it, right, There's
no there's no time sensitivity to principles. It's either a
true thing or it's not a true thing. And the
ultimate version of audience capture is politics.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
These people try to persuade you in certain ways, but
they also run opinion polls, right, and if the broader
public takes a stand against something, then they will back
off of it. And I'll tell you there's been a
pretty recent example of it happening. A lot of people
in a lot of big cities let their businesses get
(22:49):
shut down, to let them sell, their kids get kicked
out of schools for you know, months at a time,
all this stuff, and they just took it. They complained
on social media, but they took it. But then when
the Biden administration under DHS tried to stand up this
Governance Disinformation Board that was basically like an online censorship
program inside of our federal government, everybody from the left
(23:11):
to the right said nope, we're not doing that, and
it went away. That woman got fired by the way,
she works with the British government doing the exact same thing.
So you can see that the power of in the
first season the Game of Thrones, the king is like,
what's stronger, five or one?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And she's like five, and he goes five one.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Right, So a fist is quite a bit stronger than
open hand, and that is what the resounding no from
Americans sounds like. So the solution to this stuff, this
maga split, is that you need to understand logic and reason.
Probably go read some of the things that Aristotle had
(23:52):
to say or Marcus Aurelius had to say. Those are
two very important figures in Seneca as well, and that
specific those three people are very good to look into,
and then maybe study some civics so you actually understand
how our government works, because right now you're having a
conversation about stuff that you just don't understand. Frankly, I
(24:13):
think that's a big problem, and it's you can see
it in this You mentioned Dave Smith and some of
these other guys, But it's just the anti war side,
and I don't think it's one.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Nobody is truly anti war.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I don't believe that, right, because if I brought war
to your house, you would be pro war in an instant, right.
So it's just a matter of defining terms and just
war theory and stuff like that, which they also have
no concept of. But it does show I'll say this,
it shows the damage that George W. Bush's administration did
to this country. They so misuse the trust of the
(24:51):
American public that we can't look at a country like
a Ran who has been for years threatening to destroy
our civilization and has bombed our Marine cor barracks and
has been the number one state sponsor of terrorism globally
and say, well, we can't let them get nukes. That
that seems like a pretty reasonable thing. The entire world
(25:13):
agrees on this. By the way, I don't even think
China and Russia want them to get nukes. They're just
using it to keep us wrapped up over there, right,
that would be that would be not great. So it's
like you have your personal opinions on stuff, and your
you know, your educational life. It's all going to inform
these opinions. So, which is why you need to get
(25:34):
more of those things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
The more data you get, the better off you're going
to be when you're making these decisions. It is completely
unreasonable to think that, you know, Iran should be allowed
to have nuclear weapons.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's crazy. I don't like.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I honestly don't think anybody actually believes that. I think
some people are just being contrarian for its own sake.
But the other point you made was about Casimi Sola money.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
It wasn't just.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
It wasn't just the fact that Iran didn't retaliate. It's
that they called us and said, here's what we're going
to do. They did it in twenty twenty as well,
by the way, like it was it was broadcast that
they called Qatar to let them know where they were
going to hit before, but they did it in twenty
twenty as well, reported on it at the time, same
exact scenario happened. And the reason is because they don't
(26:21):
in fact have escalatory dominance in the region, which is
what Smith and all these other people said.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Tucker Carlson said it.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
All these people were like on and on and on
about this, all the tragic stuff that was going to happen,
and it was a complete and utter failure of understanding
that situation. And now it's like the way that they
responded to that was not humility, which is something that
really bothered me. The way they responded to it was like,
oh no, us belly aching on Twitter is what stopped
Trump from launching a ground invasion, Like, are you out
(26:50):
of your fucking mind? You really like, you can't possibly
believe that, So to you know, I guess, reunify this
this group of people that came together to stop Kamala
Harris from really setting us on the wrong course. This
same group of people agreed on a lot of different stuff.
(27:12):
They agreed on getting all these illegals out of the country, right,
They agreed to not add to the debt, which we're
doing now.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
But maybe short term we'll see.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I mean, anybody that's running business knows that sometimes you
got to dig a little deeper to get out. That's
just the way it is with the Fabian strategy, if
you want to call it that from war, but sometimes
you got to go a little deeper to get out.
We'll see how that works. I'll reserve judgment on that.
I don't like how it's gone so far, but I'll
reserve my final judgment on that. And the other thing
was exposing the corruption. Not one person who is involved
(27:47):
in any of this corruption has been brought to heal,
not one, not one person except for this woman who
trafficked a bunch of people to nobody apparently, right, So like,
if you want me to trust you as a as
a as a leader, somebody who's going to tell me
the truth, you sure shit can't lie to my face.
We know for a fact, and Mike Ben's, by the way,
(28:07):
has done great work articulated by this stuff. But we
know for a fact that Epstein's relationship with the CIA
began back during the Iran contra scandal, where he was
providing financial services to at Nakushogi. We have decades of
files on this dude, and the State Department literally leased
the largest rest second largest residence in all of New
(28:28):
York City for him. Don't lie to that face, tell
me anything, say, because you remember how the story has
changed over time. The files are like that, we can't
put it out because we're prosecuting people. We don't want
that to get out. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Story change, story change, story change.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
If this were a court of law, this person would
be completely disgraced by now all of those right, So
you know, I understand Bongino. I think he's a good
dude actually, and I think Cash is a good dude
as well. I think they're being strong armed, right, now,
and they're being pushed out into the limeline to take
the hit.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I hope Bonjina resigns. I hope he does.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
I hope Cash does as well, because that's the only
thing that's ever going to save their reputation.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And Bondy's done.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
In my opinion, I bitched about Bondi getting nominated in
the first place, because she's the architect of red flag
laws at Florida.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
What the fuck was you thinking? Right? That was never
that was never a good choice.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
But these other two guys had some street cred, and
the administration so far has used their street cred not
to not to actually give credibility, but as cover right, yes,
which is a big problem, man.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
And if I were either one of those dudes, I
would be pissed.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Pissed.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I mean, your reputation shot, Like how do you even
rebuild it now? I mean, I mean I remember I
first really got immersed in following Bongino in like seventeen
because he was doing the best reporting on Russia Gate.
He had written the book Follow the Money, right, I mean,
he had gone down these rabbit holes on all these
(30:00):
different types of illegal corruption, and and then it emerged
and then it just then it just got to a
place where like he was dead on on all of
these things, and then to go in and be like
I'm day one, I'm getting it. I'm it's over, and
I think you're you're spot on. It's like all right, you.
It's interesting the way trust develops online, right, and for
(30:24):
you see it for some people it's it's it's much
different than for others. For some, like you said, those followers,
it's you put out a couple of pieces and then
you know, you've got your your marching orders, and they
kind of you know that uh, mass formation psychosis that
doctor Robert Malone talks so exquisitely about. And but then
(30:47):
you have people that have been there or done that.
They're like no, no, no, no, no way. And in
my mind it's kind of the some of the leaders
of that that group of people who are calling out
all of these things is really the g WoT guys, right,
it's all of us who fell for a lot of
this stuff. Went in on the pretense that we were
(31:09):
save in America and you know under you know, yeah
we thought this. I think it was a lot more
the personal desires to do something bigger than yourself, which
led us into the spot where you take orders and
I don't care where you send me. I'm going to
do my job and be a part of the team,
so to speak. But now it's it's so much different.
It's evolved. It's evolved into a much more complex information
(31:35):
environment and information campaigns, and so being able to decipher
those and get back to a stated, maybe centralized, accepted
opinion for a mass group is I don't. I don't
think it's possible. I think that the crack is permanent.
(31:56):
Just like most political right environments, you know, they come together,
they ascend, they reach power, and then you know, they
either get the shaft or they go about their own
corrupt business dealings themselves. What in your mind does the
next six months of the landscape look for look like
for a lot of these pundits that are out there,
(32:20):
you know, and I guess we're loosely affiliated with that.
I think we call more strikes than balls, for sure,
But what do you see this emerging like?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That's a good question.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I mean, I work with an organization who identifies the
bought farm stuff specifically, actually had a call about it
this morning, and we're going to put out some specific
examples about individual posts made by creators that were influenced
in a way that made them blow up so people
can see it. Because I think sunlight's the best disinfectant,
(32:55):
you know. I think when people see that stuff, I
get DMS every single day. Like it's like, once you
pointed it out, I can't stop seeing it everywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I'm like, yeah, I think.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Like, to be honest, I think sixty sixty five percent
of the Internet is fake, especially that's a good number
and metal, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I think I think it's pretty fake. What I don't
think is that.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I don't think any of these people are getting paid
by Russia or China or Israel or the US government
to say things. I think that they're benefiting from audience.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I think they're benefiting from ad revenue for sure, But
audience capture happens absent payment all the time.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I mean, look at reality television. Most of the people
the Kardashians, the Kardashians make money, but the vast majority
of people in reality TV, they don't make shit. It's like,
at all, five to fifteen thousand dollars an episode, maybe, right,
Look Island two.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Point eight billion viewers of that show around the world
and it's literally like watching I just can't even wrap
my but it's it's overwhelming, and these people are like
three thousand dollars an episode or something crazy, and it's
all just exposure for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So you can see that.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
It's like, it doesn't require all of these extra steps
that we're adding to it to be an actual conspiracy.
The conspiracy is far more clever than that, right, because
there is no paper trail, there is no money to follow.
You have to follow the capture, which is quite a
bit more difficult, right because sometimes things legitimately blow up
for one reason or another, so it's a lot more
(34:28):
difficult to identify that.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And people also have men.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Just the memory span these days is so low, and
it's become the fact that we operate in such short
circuits now.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And here's a little here's a great example of this.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Go find your favorite movie or TV show for when
you were growing up, when you're like ten, eleven, twelve,
the first movie you watch with your dad or something
like that, and watch the opening credits and the opening scene.
It's going to be somewhere between like twelve and twenty
minutes that for those two things combined. Watch it now,
it's four minutes right. Any movie you see, it's the
(35:12):
credits are short, the opening scene is somewhere between ninety
minutes and or ninety seconds and three minutes, every single
one of them. That's where we are now, and it's
made us way more susceptible to this thing called the
Gellman amnesia effect and the gal Maan amnesia effect. The
best example that I was given to explain it is,
imagine you are somebody who dabbles in day trading.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Right, so you're on the stock.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Market and you go to the New York Times Financial section.
You flip the page six for their stock tips, and
they're wrong every single day. But you keep going back,
you keep going back, and this I'll bring this back
to these people who are alarmists all the time about everything.
It's only for attention they have. There's no substance there.
(35:56):
And the reason that it continues is because they never
have to pay a price, never pay a price for
being abjectly wrong about everything they say. They couch it
in a little bit of truth, and you know, well,
maybe it'll happen down the road, like maybe Iran's gonna
hit it, like Okay, so how long from now? In
the next ten years? If rand hits his ten years
(36:16):
from now, is that count?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Now? That there wasn't
some retalent chef that fucked up? Man? You know what
I mean? It's like that.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
But that's how it is. So for these pundits, I
think they're going to keep cruising along. To be honest,
I'm definitely gonna try and look, I'm not out to
get anybody. I think Dave is a really smart guy, actually,
and I think on his domestic like he and I,
if you compared our domestic ideas, you would be hard
pressed to find any difference at all, to be frank,
and even for most foreign policy stuff, I think he
(36:44):
and I would be pretty close on it. But for
this stuff, that's all alarm us right now? Is it is?
It is a symptom of something right, It's not real.
None of that stuff is real. And I like Tucker too.
I think Tucker is a good guy. I think he's
captured by some of this stuff for one reason or another.
I don't think any of these are getting paid by somebody.
I don't think it's necessary. And I also think they're
good people like I know Tucker. I think he's a
(37:06):
good man. He's not doing this shit to hurt anybody,
and he's not getting paid by some foreign government to
sell out his own country.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
That shit is not happening, right. You have a disagreement
with him.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
His methodology is probably flawed based on what I understand
about this situation, but that doesn't make him a bad person.
And treating him as such, or treating Dave or any
these other guys as such, who what favor are you
doing to whom? By doing that, all you're doing is
further entrenching the people that listen to him in their
position instead of giving them the opportunity to examine what
he's saying right from with understanding. Otherwise, we're just all
(37:39):
getting farther apart, and that's not helping anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
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want you to understand just how awesome the one of
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(38:09):
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They grow the peppers that go into the salt. They
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(38:31):
they put it in the salt shakers, they package it,
they ship it out right. It's them, man, this is
their business, and they really care about what they do.
One of the unique things about Alex is he's one
of the most intellectually.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Stimulating human beings I've ever met.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
We get on the phone and we talk for hours
about everything you could possibly fathom, from our faith in Jesus,
to what it means to market properly, the intent behind video,
and just overall life in general. And so when I
tell you like this, this product comes from his heart
and from his families.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
That's the genuine truth. So please do yourself a favor.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
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(39:37):
family owned business and I promise you your your taste
buds will thank me later. Yeah, at all at all.
But that seems to be the case throughout all history.
I think now it's we're in this, you know it.
It's exacerbated and accelerated because everything is happening and you know,
(40:00):
instantaneous capacity, right, So people don't even have the time
to formulate enough opinions on what took place yesterday for
the argument that's coming tomorrow. And that's why, you know,
I think context is so critical. That's why I think
you do a really good job when you lean into
these subjects and really really, you know, deconstruct them down to,
(40:22):
like you said, those core principles and that that really
benefits people measurably.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
All Right, So, is there a way.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
In the next you know, four to six months for
the president and his team uh to do the appropriate
damage control and and to uh regain some confidence in
your opinion?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
What does that look like specifically.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
To me?
Speaker 4 (40:56):
When there's something like this, the only way to really
restore confidence is to put it out in public, don't
I don't think that like there's a lot of conspiracies
about this or that about Trump and the Epstein files.
I can tell you firsthand that he's not criminally involved
in anything. I've heard from people in the intelligence community
(41:17):
that have poured over the stuff there are. There is
some weird stuff, not weird like in a sexual way
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Stuff about how he and like allegedly he and Millennia.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Were introduced by Epstein, right, and that's embarrassing for him.
I don't care about that that that has Trump is
another person I think is a good man, right. He's
different than me. He grew up a billionaire in New York.
We have some different values for sure. And he's also
on a ticking clock because he's only got this one
term to do his stuff. So I understand why he
rushes through certain things. I understand he's he's moderated quite
(41:52):
a bit. When I say moderated, he's not calling everybody
assholes now only now and then, right, So he's I
think he's a good man too.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
He's doing a lot of cool stuff.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
My sincere opinion about that is that he is he
doesn't want to be the president in charge when this
all collapses, and that's probably what would happen if he
told everybody everything. I think he should still do it, don't.
I don't give a fuck. If a system is built
on this evil, then it needs to collapse. But as
far as what they could do to rebuild this stuff,
(42:21):
I don't know that anything can be done, because what
they're going to try to do is message their way
out of it, and I don't think that's going to work,
especially when you know, if you're a typical Trump voter
from twenty sixteen, a rural person who is probably middle
to lower middle class, and you just saw the big
(42:42):
beautiful bill add a bunch of debt right that we're
going to have to pay for it at some point, and
you saw it raised the salt deduction from ten percent
to forty percent if anybody's even tracking on this, So
now New York City and Los Angeles and San Francisco,
anybody that lives there can write off forty percent or
I'm sorry, up to forty thousand dollars in their state
local taxes, right, which means you're going to now pay
(43:04):
a higher effective federal tax rate than this person that
lives in the shithole that voted the wrong You did
the right thing. You did the right thing, and now
you're going to get penalized for it. Anyways, I think
that's kind of stuff is really hard to come back from,
to be honest. And I really think that in September,
if this recision bill that they're talking about during the
reconciliation process doesn't hammer federal spending in a meaningful way,
(43:28):
then they're going to be fucked in twenty six.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
There's no doubt I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think
the only messaging that's going to distract the American public
right now is continue the tariffs, continue walloping these other
countries getting paid back. I think that's a great diversion
from it. And then for me, I think you relaunch
(43:50):
this whole thing with the FED. I think you really
dig in, you start to confront. I think you start
talking about an audit of the FED. I think you
talk about out the Fort Knox stuff. You know, because
the one thing I think that the two biggest things
that people will not tolerate is is children getting hurt, right,
(44:11):
children being objectified, children being attacked, children.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Being wronged, And the other is money.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
And you know, at thirty eight trillion dollars, you know,
and just printing money in ways we can't even fathom.
You better give the American people some type of hope that, yeah,
there is a way to rain this in, Like, all right,
we're gonna tear if we're gonna do this, But the
next one, like you said in the fall, we're gonna
(44:39):
start slashing the budget.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I agree with you. I think those are the only
two ways.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, and by the way, another.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
I don't want to just hammer on people on my
own side, although I do feel like it's our responsibility
to keep our own part.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Of the field clean, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
And not like there are bad actors, but we got
to hold each other. They accountable when things are right wrong.
But the left is stupid too, and quite a bit
more stupid than the right is. Let's be clear about that.
Like this whole idea from the left and neocons that
tariffs are going to cause inflation. I think inflation was
one point eight three percent last month, Like fuck off, dude,
We're just like it's we know this not to be true.
(45:19):
And Jerome Palin needs to get fired out of a
cannon into the sun or something like that.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Guy's completely useless.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
But yeah, to your point about you know, giving people
wins is what it's about. They tried, by the way,
with the Brennan Comey stuff, Like they tried to put
that out the day after this, and like nobody is
talking about that. Nobody on the right gives two fucks.
And to be clear, they're both assholes. They both tried
to steal an election and get Trump thrown in prison. Right,
(45:49):
there's no question about that. It's not treason because it
doesn't involve a foreign adversary, but it's definitely something it's
definitely a crime.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
So but that is that might be one of the
biggest conspiracies in the history of this country. And it
just happened, and nobody's talking about it because they're so
pissed off about this, Right, so you're gonna have to
do something big, really, I mean, I like the terrorists.
I think they're doing it. I think Trump. Trump's foreign
policy so far has been great. Like, certainly he can't
(46:18):
control Zelenski or putin people give a little bit of
shit for the Rush of Ukraine thing, But literally everything
else he's done, from dealing with Mody and India to
dealing with net and Yahoo and keeping that lunatic from
going completely full retard, you know what I mean, because
you know that he's he's managing a lot foreign policy wise,
and I think he's mostly made the right decisions there,
(46:39):
so I have no complaints about that. But you know,
wins have to be big and they have to be
personal right for people to care. If it's the country
winning a war, that means something people. His approval ratings
went up after that Iranian bombing, not down right, but
since June, since the end of June, they've gone down
ten points because of the beautiful Bill and because of
(47:01):
this Epstein shit. So he's not stupid, He's a smart man.
I think he'll probably figure something out here in the meantime.
But I think he also knows that they got to
cut a lot of spending sometime soon, right probably in September,
because I don't think you'll have another chance to do
it after that, and you have to give people individual
wins somehow.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I don't know what his plan is on that.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yeah, neither do I.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
It'll be it'll be certainly fascinating to see the next
couple of weeks. Uh Dan, Again, just truly appreciate your
insight and your thoughts and your wisdom.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
And I love the idea that we have to.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Hold each other accountable in our sphere of influence and
and and do so in a way that's that's not
damning or calling people out or acting like assholes.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
Right, sure, I mean, like we're dudes, so we're going
to call each other assholes.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
But then, God, then you have to do step two.
You have to go drink the beer afterwards. Right, you
got to do both things. It's not what We're not
here to make enemies obviously, right, that's not the point.
The point is to get the right answer.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
And if you know you're gonna be I just warned
people you're gonna be wrong at some point.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I've done the math for myself. I do a lot
of shows.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
If one percent of the stuff I say is wrong
or stupid, that's three and a half minutes per week
since twenty eighteen. Right, so there's plenty of stupid shit
that I've said, misspoken things, didn't know the right answer,
said something dumb.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
And you know I've I've enjoyed. Well, I don't give
a fuck if somebody comes at me, and go come
at me if I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I don't give
a shit, right, I'll just correct it.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
But you know I have been given uh you know
I I think I've to some degree earned a little
bit of grace here and there. And the way you
earn it is by giving it. That's how grace works. Right,
So I'll actually to people the purpose is to get
the right answer, not to dance on each other's graves.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
You, that serves no purpose whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I agree, oh heartily, Dan, fellow penn Stater buddy, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
God bless you.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Keep doing what you're doing, and maybe in a month
or two we'll get you back on and that'd be awesome.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
God bless you, brother,
Are you a citizen of the United States who cares
about what's going on, especially the division that's taking place
in the MAGA movement. Well, don't miss it, because I've
got the host of the Citizen Podcast, Dan Holloway, on
the David Rutherford Show. All Right, everybody, thank you so
much for joining me. You know, after a Monday show
(00:23):
called the MAGA Split, I wanted to bring on somebody
that I believe really is tracking this at the most granual,
lever level, but also as bringing forth a really well
thought out application to all of the things that are
driving the split. For whether it's the you know, the
(00:45):
anti war movement, or whether it's the Epstein files, or
whether it's the land sale, whatever it might be. The
one individual that I really truly believe that has just
a profound insight on all these things is mister Dan
Holloway with the Citizen Podcast, who's also on one of
my favorites, the Drinking Brothers Podcast. So, ladies and gentlemen,
(01:07):
mister Dan Holloway, how are you doing, Dan, I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
How are you well?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I'll tell you what, after three months of finally getting
a show back up and running, I think I finally
am starting to find a little bit of a tempo
and a little bit of.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Understanding of what this thing's gonna look like.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
But certainly when you had me on about four months ago,
that really got me got me thinking about what I
needed to do because of how well you do it.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, it's it takes a little
while to get into a rhythm, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It does? You know.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I took you know, probably two and a half years
off and I was like, oh, I got this, It's easy.
And then like my first month, I was trying to
figure out, all right, that doesn't work. That doesn't work.
So yeah, finally, well listen, let's let's get into it.
I know you're busy man, As I was saying in
the intro, you know, I did show released it Monday
(02:03):
on the MAGA split, and I've been watching. You've been
all over a lot of the people on both sides.
Whether you know, I'm still trying to really define what
woke right is right from James, Lindsay and Peterson and
all that. But there's a definite division amongst the different people.
(02:23):
So as you see this, how are you looking at this?
Where do you see the splits taking place, and what
are kind of the tributaries of division that are kind
of breaking out within the MAGA movement.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Sure, yeah, I mean, I guess it helps to start
at the granular level, right, the United States is the
simple idea that individual liberty and personal entrepreneurship are the
ultimate inoculation to tyranny. That's what we believe here, right.
We believe that when the state is large, the individual
is small. Now, with that, and this is kind of
(02:59):
the purpose of my show, citizen, with that comes a
litany of responsibilities, right, Like I believe the phrase from
one of our founders was a republic if you can
keep it right, And the presumption there is that it
requires your constant maintenance and vigilance.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Now, it is true that we are.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Aimed towards liberty above all else, and that decentralization is
probably the best way, so far as we could tell,
to handle that sort of stuff. And that means the
diffusion of power amongst a lower and a greater number
of people, and at a lower level. Certainly, that's what
federalism is meant to do. Right in tend to meend
to the constitution. Now, certain the thing that I will
(03:43):
also say is that most people aren't leaders. That's just
how life is, right, and there are quite a few
pew I think, people that take the time to come
and there's degrees of it, right, like not everybody is
a top level leader, but a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Are middle management.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I mean, if you're a if you're a parent, then
you're you're the manager of your household. I think I
don't remember who's originally said it, but the lowest form
of government is your house, right, your family. And as such,
I really think that people need to be led. And
that isn't and and and and it when we talk
about stuff like this, it kind of betrays, uh the
(04:25):
one of the fundamental flaws of our decentralized system, and
every system has one. Ours are just happens to be
this and it's, in my opinion, manageable, which is that
you know, people are lazy and they don't want to
put in the effort required of them to get the
outcome they desire.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And that you.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Know that when you when you talk about you know,
from our perspective is as gunfighter types, how can I
exploit my enemy's weakness? That's the number one weakness in
the United States. Uh, and it is that there are
all these gaps in our defense where effort could solve them,
but it won't because they don't it's not going to
(05:07):
be present.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So and we had talked about that before. That's intellectual weakness. Yes,
that's actionable weakness, that's resilience weakness. It's the whole gambit, right.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, and then you know, so to solve that
kind of thing, there's this So Marcus Aurelius once said,
stop talking about what a good man is in B one, right,
and I think let's stop talking about what a leader
is in B one.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
This is the thing that we need desperately, and we don't.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Have it because we have a lot of people who
are benefiting from the system in a lot of ways, right,
people that are let's say, people that are on welfare,
the politicians that are selling them that welfare on both
sides of the aisle.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
This is not a democratic situation. It happens from both sides.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
And then, of course, in the ecosphere, the people that
are meant to be I guess the middle management leaders,
the communicators, A lot of them, whether they know it
or not, have been captured either by their audience, or
by some foreign adversary, or even by you know, propaganda
within our own government. Now you'll hear people talk about
(06:12):
how Katar does this. I mean, forget about all that crap.
That's not even necessary to bring up what actually like,
foreign governments for the most part, are not paying specific
individuals to do anything. To your point, for before about
these bot forms, that's not at all how it works.
What actually happens is the foreign government primarily China, Russia
(06:35):
to some degree, North Korea to some degree a RAN,
but a RAN is mostly a cutout of China in
that regard. And then you know, Israel does it as well,
The United States does it overseas, and probably here as well.
I think USAID probably funded some of this stuff. But
they'll take an extremist position like some dipshit.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Can I swear on the show.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I don't know which kind of shit were absolutely some
dipshit like Nick Fuintes will say something crazy and he'll
couch it. He'll say some accurate stuff, and then they'll
say something fucking stupid, right, and thousands of these bot
farm accounts will come in and say oh yeah, this that,
and people you know, fall into these traps. One of
them is called bandwagon fallacy, which is where if enough
(07:15):
people believe it, that means I should believe it too.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, that's not true.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
It's literally a logical fallacy, right, So you should inspect
the information on its merit.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That should be the first thing.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Now, there are a lot of indicators about how this
stuff happens on It's quite a bit easier on Instagram
because you could see who likes what. So here's something
I would recommend you do. If you see somebody post
something that's a long reel or a meme or something
that's you know, clearly meant to inflame people. If you
see something like that, look at the comments section. Don't
(07:48):
worry about what the content of it is moving forward,
Just look at the comment section and find people, you know,
just hover over accounts that are responding to it and
find people that have that a lot of people in
very low follower accounts, and just find like two of them,
and then go look at other people making extreme comments
(08:08):
to boost that post, and then look and see if
that original two people like those posts. Then you've identified
a little BOTFM. That's how it works, right, So you
know this isn't new or clever. Nielsen has been caught
doing this with the cable black boxes a bunch of times,
including in India as late as like twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I think they got so in India for it.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So you know, this kind of manipulation has happened a
lot before. What I would say is, you know, we
have some really deep misunderstandings about what these foreign adversaries
are trying to do, like the Russia collusion hoax, right,
which is complete nonsense made a lot of people on
the left think that the whole purpose of Russian influence
(08:48):
was to get Donald Trump elected. That is not the case.
Their purpose is always chaos, right. They want they want
two things. They want Americans not to trust or talk
to each other, right, and they want to infiltrate our
systems with Marxism, our communications, our education, all of our
systems with Marxism.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
That is their goal, right.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
So if you think about it from that standpoint, you
and this now I'm speaking to the individual creators as well.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
If you see these.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Bot farms engaging and promoting your posts, you should ask
yourself why, even if the information is true, right, you
should still ask yourself, well, why is my enemy coming
to my defense. Right now, what does that say about
my position or what does it say about what they're
trying to do. I'm not telling you to act any
certain way. I just want people to observe what's happening,
because I don't think that people like being tricked. I
think it really pisses me off when somebody tries to
(09:38):
influence me like that. And I think the average person,
even though they need to be led like, not everyone's
going to not everyone's going to be a political science
scholar or an economic scholar, right, That's just not how
life works. You've got a job to do, so we
need to be able to depend on people in the
public sphere to some degree and the expert class, which
we've completely lost in this country, to do their fucking job.
(09:58):
Like that is your and you need to take it
seriously and do it in a good way. And if
you're being influenced and infiltrated by these foreign averse series,
this is not going to happen, right. So I think
it's all part of this ecosystem where there are people
that I like out there in the public that are
being influenced in this way, and I try to tell
them about it.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Like, hey, I like you, but look at what's happening
right here. This is not good.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Because it is all of our job leader or not
to hold each other accountable.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
That's what this community is supposed to be about.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I agree. I think that's a great way to evaluate it.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That The challenge though is, you know, and this goes
back which I remember, you know, when the whole fiasco
of Douglas Murray and Dave Smith on Rogan and that
whole thing, and well you weren't there, And it's the
classification of expertise, right, And like you said, I think
(10:54):
really as a result of COVID, we had a collapse
in confidence in the experts for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And so now moving forward.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
It's it's you have, uh, comedians like Dave Smith, who
is an impassioned anti war libertarian. I guess, you know,
then you have you know, you have other people, uh
like James Lindsay, who is obviously smart guy, understands communism
at an ultimate level. But then as projecting along with
(11:25):
Jordan Peterson that if you post a certain way, you
fit the you know, the psychotic triad. And so it's
like I see both people becoming more extreme in order
to refine their stance. And what you said, which was
I thought really interesting, was that component about audience capture
(11:48):
and and so you get these bot farms that will
come in and reinforce your point, and you are like, oh,
well I'm more and reinforced, I'm more that I'm right,
I'm over the target. This is what my audience wants
to see. Explain a little bit more about how you
(12:08):
how you try and assess these things with people online
and then often in private too, because I'm sure you
reach out to people that you know personally and say I.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
So I think the most important thing that you can
do as a thinker is to reduce things down to
their fundamental level, what we would call first principles.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Right, I think that's the most important thing.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
And I've given this example a number of times recently,
but for your audience, I'll give it again. One of
the longest running and most vicious debates in America politically speaking,
has been over healthcare. And as someone who leans towards
the conservative side, somebody from the left will say, I
think we should have free health care. In my mind,
(12:53):
like alarm bells are going off in my head, obviously, right, like, well, one,
nothing's free, and to the group that you think that's
is administering this.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Is not going to do a very good job. Blah
blah blah ah that stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Okay, Well I can say all that, and I can
start an argument with this person and then we will
converse about our argument, will both state our points, and
then we'll walk away.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
That's how that goes.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Or you know, and I'm not telling you to capitulate,
I'm telling you to understand. Or you could do this,
You could say what you could take this person at
their best possible first principle meeting, which is that and
the richest country in the history of the world. It
is almost assuredly unethical to tell people they could be
as healthy as they can afford to be when they're
getting a shit text taxed out of them and there
(13:35):
are all these predatory systems out there. That is something
that I fundamentally agree with. Actually, right, So now we're
talking about the solution to that problem rather than ignoring
the problem.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Entirely, because this is what happens if you man if it.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Just because you don't agree with somebody's solution to a
problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if you pretend
that problem doesn't exist, then people you don't like and
you don't agree with will come in and solve that
problem on your behalf, and it is going to be
in a way that you don't like, and it probably
disadvantages you to some degree. Your participation in this is required,
and the only way to participate fully is to do
(14:10):
that to fully understand that person's position. So you know,
to the first principal thing on what people like James
would call the woke, right, Okay, so he doesn't mean
they're woke in the way that their protrands or any
of this stuff, the way that we kind of casually
define it. What he's saying is that they want These
(14:31):
people want power. There's this old saying.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It's kind of a.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
It's not old, actually, it's kind of it's a newer saying.
But there's this like refrain about Marxism. Call everything oppressive
until you own it, right, That's that's their baseline strategy,
and it's about power. It has nothing to do with
principles or anything like that. And you can see it.
These people that are that are that are Marxist folks
(14:58):
who were perfectly happy be locking you down and trying
to force vaccinate you. They were still going out to
the French laundry, you know, with no mask on. You
know for a fact they didn't believe it. This uh
what's his name, Mark Kelly from Arizona. When Elon was
getting cozy with the administration, he traded in his Tesla,
not for another electric vehicle, by the way, but for
(15:21):
a V eight GMC, the same one I drive as
a matter of fact, Right, so you know that these
people have no root and principle. They're full of shit,
every single one of them. So people that are trying
to gain power, right, and as such, they are using
the tools to gain power in lieu of the tools
to decentralize or empowered people. That is woke, right, that
(15:43):
those are the tool belt. I'm sorry, that is the
tool belt of the woke actor. So don't confuse it
with and I don't use the phrase woke right because
I think it's just it requires too much time like
this to explain what it means. Right, I just call
him assholes to be honest. But James is a j
is a nerd, right, so he's going to do that.
But they're using the same power or the same tools
(16:07):
to gain power. Right, And you can see it all
the time. When's the last time a Republican decentralized anything?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Right? And when you see these people who are what
I consider to be cultists for their political parties on
either side, whenever they get into power, it's never about
returning things to normal.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
It's about I've got power, Now, what am I going
to do with it? Nope, I'm sorry, that's not the
right answer, my friend.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I hope you're enjoying the show. I just wanted to
step in real quick and just let you know that
if you visit David Rutherford dot com, you can get
access to one of our most important pieces of curriculum
that I've ever written or ever put out. It's called
the Embrace Fear Training Course. This course I spent two
(16:58):
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(17:21):
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(17:42):
your dreams and your ultimate purpose and meaning in life
by taking that fear, flipping around and using it as
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(18:04):
overcome that, well, then go visit David Rutherford dot com
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Speaker 3 (18:18):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Right detracting actually going back or living up to promises
in the cycle of you know, getting people to believe
in what you believe. Now, I think you know this
cycle was one of the most unique cycles I've ever
been paying attention.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And you know, mild Man, was you know, always very.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
In tune with what was going on politically, and and
you know, he grew up in the late sixties, went
to University of Michigan when Abby Hoffman was there, and
you know, just so as an attorney and so always
that's right, that's right, and always had this And I
remember vividly as a young boy, you know, watching sixty
Minutes with him and him being like, well, this is
(19:03):
this and this is this, and I was like, oh,
this is cool, you know. And for me, my big
transition was, uh when we invaded Iraq the first time,
and you know, I think I was eighteen years old.
I was up in Connecticut at boarding school, and it
was like, oh shit, there's something bigger at play. Well,
I think now what's taking place in particularly over that
(19:26):
last cycle, like everything has become it's the end of
the world. And you pointed a little bit of this out.
I think with the whole Iran Israel bombing, you're like,
all right, everybody that's talking about World War three and
if we go and there's going to be you know,
seventy million Americans dead in the first five you know,
you're like, everybody, just shut up.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
And I love the example that you gave and.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
About the first Trump term where you know, we went
in and we took out the guy who was the
head of the ig R what is it, the IRG,
I RGC, thank you, and nothing was done as a result.
And so what I what I what I'm asking you
is is you're obviously saying, all right, figure out what
(20:12):
that defining principle is and then move into the argument.
But is there a place where where is there a
legitimate argument right now? Let's take the hottest issue on
a thing I just saw today fifty posts Dan Bongino's
leaving the FBI, he had to take a day off,
right cash Betel and hear Fuman Pambani's on the chopping
(20:35):
board because of the collapse and Trumps whatever the Epstein thing.
Why is this such a divisive concept within the MAGA
movement right now? And why do you think like this
is one of those core principal ideas to really flush
out in order to get everybody. I don't know what,
(20:57):
I don't know what the outcome is, Like, how do
you assemble everybody in a concise manner to get some
final not even finality, but just some exposure. Right What
would be your suggestion in this or in your explanation
of it. Sorry that was long winded.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Positive, No, No, I've got some notes.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
People think that we all learned our lesson from all
the lockdown and Biden's stuff because we re elected Trump,
but clearly that's not the case. Clearly, anybody that's arguing
against publishing whatever we have on Epstein is full of shit. Right,
That's certainly not what they were saying six months ago
when it was like on day one, on day one,
(21:38):
on day one, So that person has either abandoned or
never had principles.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
That's just how it is.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
What I would refer to as an intellectual club, right,
they don't belong in the conversation. They need to be
told what to think, frankly, and I did. That's a
sad reality, but that is what it is. And there's
another example of it. We were all against omnibus bills
twelve months ago. We were fighting hard to make sure
that never happened again, and we were promised it would
not at least in this term. And now it's awesome
(22:07):
because Trump renamed it. I'm sorry, that doesn't that doesn't
that Losa doesn't track for me. You were either principled
or you are not principled. That is it, right, There's
no there's no time sensitivity to principles. It's either a
true thing or it's not a true thing. And the
ultimate version of audience capture is politics.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
These people try to persuade you in certain ways, but
they also run opinion polls, right, and if the broader
public takes a stand against something, then they will back
off of it. And I'll tell you there's been a
pretty recent example of it happening. A lot of people
in a lot of big cities let their businesses get
(22:49):
shut down, to let them sell, their kids get kicked
out of schools for you know, months at a time,
all this stuff, and they just took it. They complained
on social media, but they took it. But then when
the Biden administration under DHS tried to stand up this
Governance Disinformation Board that was basically like an online censorship
program inside of our federal government, everybody from the left
(23:11):
to the right said nope, we're not doing that, and
it went away. That woman got fired by the way,
she works with the British government doing the exact same thing.
So you can see that the power of in the
first season the Game of Thrones, the king is like,
what's stronger, five or one?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And she's like five, and he goes five one.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Right, So a fist is quite a bit stronger than
open hand, and that is what the resounding no from
Americans sounds like. So the solution to this stuff, this
maga split, is that you need to understand logic and reason.
Probably go read some of the things that Aristotle had
(23:52):
to say or Marcus Aurelius had to say. Those are
two very important figures in Seneca as well, and that
specific those three people are very good to look into,
and then maybe study some civics so you actually understand
how our government works, because right now you're having a
conversation about stuff that you just don't understand. Frankly, I
(24:13):
think that's a big problem, and it's you can see
it in this You mentioned Dave Smith and some of
these other guys, But it's just the anti war side,
and I don't think it's one.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Nobody is truly anti war.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I don't believe that, right, because if I brought war
to your house, you would be pro war in an instant, right.
So it's just a matter of defining terms and just
war theory and stuff like that, which they also have
no concept of. But it does show I'll say this,
it shows the damage that George W. Bush's administration did
to this country. They so misuse the trust of the
(24:51):
American public that we can't look at a country like
a Ran who has been for years threatening to destroy
our civilization and has bombed our Marine cor barracks and
has been the number one state sponsor of terrorism globally
and say, well, we can't let them get nukes. That
that seems like a pretty reasonable thing. The entire world
(25:13):
agrees on this. By the way, I don't even think
China and Russia want them to get nukes. They're just
using it to keep us wrapped up over there, right,
that would be that would be not great. So it's
like you have your personal opinions on stuff, and your
you know, your educational life. It's all going to inform
these opinions. So, which is why you need to get
(25:34):
more of those things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
The more data you get, the better off you're going
to be when you're making these decisions. It is completely
unreasonable to think that, you know, Iran should be allowed
to have nuclear weapons.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's crazy. I don't like.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I honestly don't think anybody actually believes that. I think
some people are just being contrarian for its own sake.
But the other point you made was about Casimi Sola money.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
It wasn't just.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
It wasn't just the fact that Iran didn't retaliate. It's
that they called us and said, here's what we're going
to do. They did it in twenty twenty as well,
by the way, like it was it was broadcast that
they called Qatar to let them know where they were
going to hit before, but they did it in twenty
twenty as well, reported on it at the time, same
exact scenario happened. And the reason is because they don't
(26:21):
in fact have escalatory dominance in the region, which is
what Smith and all these other people said.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Tucker Carlson said it.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
All these people were like on and on and on
about this, all the tragic stuff that was going to happen,
and it was a complete and utter failure of understanding
that situation. And now it's like the way that they
responded to that was not humility, which is something that
really bothered me. The way they responded to it was like,
oh no, us belly aching on Twitter is what stopped
Trump from launching a ground invasion, Like, are you out
(26:50):
of your fucking mind? You really like, you can't possibly
believe that, So to you know, I guess, reunify this
this group of people that came together to stop Kamala
Harris from really setting us on the wrong course. This
same group of people agreed on a lot of different stuff.
(27:12):
They agreed on getting all these illegals out of the country, right,
They agreed to not add to the debt, which we're
doing now.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
But maybe short term we'll see.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I mean, anybody that's running business knows that sometimes you
got to dig a little deeper to get out. That's
just the way it is with the Fabian strategy, if
you want to call it that from war, but sometimes
you got to go a little deeper to get out.
We'll see how that works. I'll reserve judgment on that.
I don't like how it's gone so far, but I'll
reserve my final judgment on that. And the other thing
was exposing the corruption. Not one person who is involved
(27:47):
in any of this corruption has been brought to heal,
not one, not one person except for this woman who
trafficked a bunch of people to nobody apparently, right, So like,
if you want me to trust you as a as
a as a leader, somebody who's going to tell me
the truth, you sure shit can't lie to my face.
We know for a fact, and Mike Ben's, by the way,
(28:07):
has done great work articulated by this stuff. But we
know for a fact that Epstein's relationship with the CIA
began back during the Iran contra scandal, where he was
providing financial services to at Nakushogi. We have decades of
files on this dude, and the State Department literally leased
the largest rest second largest residence in all of New
(28:28):
York City for him. Don't lie to that face, tell
me anything, say, because you remember how the story has
changed over time. The files are like that, we can't
put it out because we're prosecuting people. We don't want
that to get out. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Story change, story change, story change.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
If this were a court of law, this person would
be completely disgraced by now all of those right, So
you know, I understand Bongino. I think he's a good
dude actually, and I think Cash is a good dude
as well. I think they're being strong armed, right, now,
and they're being pushed out into the limeline to take
the hit.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I hope Bonjina resigns. I hope he does.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
I hope Cash does as well, because that's the only
thing that's ever going to save their reputation.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
And Bondy's done.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
In my opinion, I bitched about Bondi getting nominated in
the first place, because she's the architect of red flag
laws at Florida.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
What the fuck was you thinking? Right? That was never
that was never a good choice.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
But these other two guys had some street cred, and
the administration so far has used their street cred not
to not to actually give credibility, but as cover right, yes,
which is a big problem, man.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
And if I were either one of those dudes, I
would be pissed.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Pissed.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I mean, your reputation shot, Like how do you even
rebuild it now? I mean, I mean I remember I
first really got immersed in following Bongino in like seventeen
because he was doing the best reporting on Russia Gate.
He had written the book Follow the Money, right, I mean,
he had gone down these rabbit holes on all these
(30:00):
different types of illegal corruption, and and then it emerged
and then it just then it just got to a
place where like he was dead on on all of
these things, and then to go in and be like
I'm day one, I'm getting it. I'm it's over, and
I think you're you're spot on. It's like all right, you.
It's interesting the way trust develops online, right, and for
(30:24):
you see it for some people it's it's it's much
different than for others. For some, like you said, those followers,
it's you put out a couple of pieces and then
you know, you've got your your marching orders, and they
kind of you know that uh, mass formation psychosis that
doctor Robert Malone talks so exquisitely about. And but then
(30:47):
you have people that have been there or done that.
They're like no, no, no, no, no way. And in
my mind it's kind of the some of the leaders
of that that group of people who are calling out
all of these things is really the g WoT guys, right,
it's all of us who fell for a lot of
this stuff. Went in on the pretense that we were
(31:09):
save in America and you know under you know, yeah
we thought this. I think it was a lot more
the personal desires to do something bigger than yourself, which
led us into the spot where you take orders and
I don't care where you send me. I'm going to
do my job and be a part of the team,
so to speak. But now it's it's so much different.
It's evolved. It's evolved into a much more complex information
(31:35):
environment and information campaigns, and so being able to decipher
those and get back to a stated, maybe centralized, accepted
opinion for a mass group is I don't. I don't
think it's possible. I think that the crack is permanent.
(31:56):
Just like most political right environments, you know, they come together,
they ascend, they reach power, and then you know, they
either get the shaft or they go about their own
corrupt business dealings themselves. What in your mind does the
next six months of the landscape look for look like
for a lot of these pundits that are out there,
(32:20):
you know, and I guess we're loosely affiliated with that.
I think we call more strikes than balls, for sure,
But what do you see this emerging like?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That's a good question.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I mean, I work with an organization who identifies the
bought farm stuff specifically, actually had a call about it
this morning, and we're going to put out some specific
examples about individual posts made by creators that were influenced
in a way that made them blow up so people
can see it. Because I think sunlight's the best disinfectant,
(32:55):
you know. I think when people see that stuff, I
get DMS every single day. Like it's like, once you
pointed it out, I can't stop seeing it everywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I'm like, yeah, I think.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Like, to be honest, I think sixty sixty five percent
of the Internet is fake, especially that's a good number
and metal, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I think I think it's pretty fake. What I don't
think is that.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I don't think any of these people are getting paid
by Russia or China or Israel or the US government
to say things. I think that they're benefiting from audience.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I think they're benefiting from ad revenue for sure, But
audience capture happens absent payment all the time.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I mean, look at reality television. Most of the people
the Kardashians, the Kardashians make money, but the vast majority
of people in reality TV, they don't make shit. It's like,
at all, five to fifteen thousand dollars an episode, maybe, right,
Look Island two.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Point eight billion viewers of that show around the world
and it's literally like watching I just can't even wrap
my but it's it's overwhelming, and these people are like
three thousand dollars an episode or something crazy, and it's
all just exposure for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So you can see that.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
It's like, it doesn't require all of these extra steps
that we're adding to it to be an actual conspiracy.
The conspiracy is far more clever than that, right, because
there is no paper trail, there is no money to follow.
You have to follow the capture, which is quite a
bit more difficult, right because sometimes things legitimately blow up
for one reason or another, so it's a lot more
(34:28):
difficult to identify that.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And people also have men.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Just the memory span these days is so low, and
it's become the fact that we operate in such short
circuits now.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And here's a little here's a great example of this.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Go find your favorite movie or TV show for when
you were growing up, when you're like ten, eleven, twelve,
the first movie you watch with your dad or something
like that, and watch the opening credits and the opening scene.
It's going to be somewhere between like twelve and twenty
minutes that for those two things combined. Watch it now,
it's four minutes right. Any movie you see, it's the
(35:12):
credits are short, the opening scene is somewhere between ninety
minutes and or ninety seconds and three minutes, every single
one of them. That's where we are now, and it's
made us way more susceptible to this thing called the
Gellman amnesia effect and the gal Maan amnesia effect. The
best example that I was given to explain it is,
imagine you are somebody who dabbles in day trading.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Right, so you're on the stock.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Market and you go to the New York Times Financial section.
You flip the page six for their stock tips, and
they're wrong every single day. But you keep going back,
you keep going back, and this I'll bring this back
to these people who are alarmists all the time about everything.
It's only for attention they have. There's no substance there.
(35:56):
And the reason that it continues is because they never
have to pay a price, never pay a price for
being abjectly wrong about everything they say. They couch it
in a little bit of truth, and you know, well,
maybe it'll happen down the road, like maybe Iran's gonna
hit it, like Okay, so how long from now? In
the next ten years? If rand hits his ten years
(36:16):
from now, is that count?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Now? That there wasn't
some retalent chef that fucked up? Man? You know what
I mean? It's like that.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
But that's how it is. So for these pundits, I
think they're going to keep cruising along. To be honest,
I'm definitely gonna try and look, I'm not out to
get anybody. I think Dave is a really smart guy, actually,
and I think on his domestic like he and I,
if you compared our domestic ideas, you would be hard
pressed to find any difference at all, to be frank,
and even for most foreign policy stuff, I think he
(36:44):
and I would be pretty close on it. But for
this stuff, that's all alarm us right now? Is it is?
It is a symptom of something right, It's not real.
None of that stuff is real. And I like Tucker too.
I think Tucker is a good guy. I think he's
captured by some of this stuff for one reason or another.
I don't think any of these are getting paid by somebody.
I don't think it's necessary. And I also think they're
good people like I know Tucker. I think he's a
(37:06):
good man. He's not doing this shit to hurt anybody,
and he's not getting paid by some foreign government to
sell out his own country.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
That shit is not happening, right. You have a disagreement
with him.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
His methodology is probably flawed based on what I understand
about this situation, but that doesn't make him a bad person.
And treating him as such, or treating Dave or any
these other guys as such, who what favor are you
doing to whom? By doing that, all you're doing is
further entrenching the people that listen to him in their
position instead of giving them the opportunity to examine what
he's saying right from with understanding. Otherwise, we're just all
(37:39):
getting farther apart, and that's not helping anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Okay, pardon for the interruption, but I just again just
want you to understand just how awesome the one of
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and I know you hear everybody always say this, trust
(38:09):
May you know I genuinely use this product every single
morning on my eggs man you know. Firecracker Farms is
a family run business. My friend Alex and his family.
They grow the peppers that go into the salt. They
package all, they fuse the peppers into the salt itself,
(38:31):
they put it in the salt shakers, they package it,
they ship it out right. It's them, man, this is
their business, and they really care about what they do.
One of the unique things about Alex is he's one
of the most intellectually.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Stimulating human beings I've ever met.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
We get on the phone and we talk for hours
about everything you could possibly fathom, from our faith in Jesus,
to what it means to market properly, the intent behind video,
and just overall life in general. And so when I
tell you like this, this product comes from his heart
and from his families.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
That's the genuine truth. So please do yourself a favor.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
If you want to spice up your few food with
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dot Farm and punch in. If you want a promo code.
You want a little discount punching promo code RUT one
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(39:37):
family owned business and I promise you your your taste
buds will thank me later. Yeah, at all at all.
But that seems to be the case throughout all history.
I think now it's we're in this, you know it.
It's exacerbated and accelerated because everything is happening and you know,
(40:00):
instantaneous capacity, right, So people don't even have the time
to formulate enough opinions on what took place yesterday for
the argument that's coming tomorrow. And that's why, you know,
I think context is so critical. That's why I think
you do a really good job when you lean into
these subjects and really really, you know, deconstruct them down to,
(40:22):
like you said, those core principles and that that really
benefits people measurably.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
All Right, So, is there a way.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
In the next you know, four to six months for
the president and his team uh to do the appropriate
damage control and and to uh regain some confidence in
your opinion?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
What does that look like specifically.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
To me?
Speaker 4 (40:56):
When there's something like this, the only way to really
restore confidence is to put it out in public, don't
I don't think that like there's a lot of conspiracies
about this or that about Trump and the Epstein files.
I can tell you firsthand that he's not criminally involved
in anything. I've heard from people in the intelligence community
(41:17):
that have poured over the stuff there are. There is
some weird stuff, not weird like in a sexual way
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Stuff about how he and like allegedly he and Millennia.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Were introduced by Epstein, right, and that's embarrassing for him.
I don't care about that that that has Trump is
another person I think is a good man, right. He's
different than me. He grew up a billionaire in New York.
We have some different values for sure. And he's also
on a ticking clock because he's only got this one
term to do his stuff. So I understand why he
rushes through certain things. I understand he's he's moderated quite
(41:52):
a bit. When I say moderated, he's not calling everybody
assholes now only now and then, right, So he's I
think he's a good man too.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
He's doing a lot of cool stuff.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
My sincere opinion about that is that he is he
doesn't want to be the president in charge when this
all collapses, and that's probably what would happen if he
told everybody everything. I think he should still do it, don't.
I don't give a fuck. If a system is built
on this evil, then it needs to collapse. But as
far as what they could do to rebuild this stuff,
(42:21):
I don't know that anything can be done, because what
they're going to try to do is message their way
out of it, and I don't think that's going to work,
especially when you know, if you're a typical Trump voter
from twenty sixteen, a rural person who is probably middle
to lower middle class, and you just saw the big
(42:42):
beautiful bill add a bunch of debt right that we're
going to have to pay for it at some point, and
you saw it raised the salt deduction from ten percent
to forty percent if anybody's even tracking on this, So
now New York City and Los Angeles and San Francisco,
anybody that lives there can write off forty percent or
I'm sorry, up to forty thousand dollars in their state
local taxes, right, which means you're going to now pay
(43:04):
a higher effective federal tax rate than this person that
lives in the shithole that voted the wrong You did
the right thing. You did the right thing, and now
you're going to get penalized for it. Anyways, I think
that's kind of stuff is really hard to come back from,
to be honest. And I really think that in September,
if this recision bill that they're talking about during the
reconciliation process doesn't hammer federal spending in a meaningful way,
(43:28):
then they're going to be fucked in twenty six.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
There's no doubt I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think
the only messaging that's going to distract the American public
right now is continue the tariffs, continue walloping these other
countries getting paid back. I think that's a great diversion
from it. And then for me, I think you relaunch
(43:50):
this whole thing with the FED. I think you really
dig in, you start to confront. I think you start
talking about an audit of the FED. I think you
talk about out the Fort Knox stuff. You know, because
the one thing I think that the two biggest things
that people will not tolerate is is children getting hurt, right,
(44:11):
children being objectified, children being attacked, children.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Being wronged, And the other is money.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
And you know, at thirty eight trillion dollars, you know,
and just printing money in ways we can't even fathom.
You better give the American people some type of hope that, yeah,
there is a way to rain this in, Like, all right,
we're gonna tear if we're gonna do this, But the
next one, like you said in the fall, we're gonna
(44:39):
start slashing the budget.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I agree with you. I think those are the only
two ways.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, and by the way, another.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
I don't want to just hammer on people on my
own side, although I do feel like it's our responsibility
to keep our own part.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Of the field clean, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
And not like there are bad actors, but we got
to hold each other. They accountable when things are right wrong.
But the left is stupid too, and quite a bit
more stupid than the right is. Let's be clear about that.
Like this whole idea from the left and neocons that
tariffs are going to cause inflation. I think inflation was
one point eight three percent last month, Like fuck off, dude,
We're just like it's we know this not to be true.
(45:19):
And Jerome Palin needs to get fired out of a
cannon into the sun or something like that.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Guy's completely useless.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
But yeah, to your point about you know, giving people
wins is what it's about. They tried, by the way,
with the Brennan Comey stuff, Like they tried to put
that out the day after this, and like nobody is
talking about that. Nobody on the right gives two fucks.
And to be clear, they're both assholes. They both tried
to steal an election and get Trump thrown in prison. Right,
(45:49):
there's no question about that. It's not treason because it
doesn't involve a foreign adversary, but it's definitely something it's
definitely a crime.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
So but that is that might be one of the
biggest conspiracies in the history of this country. And it
just happened, and nobody's talking about it because they're so
pissed off about this, Right, so you're gonna have to
do something big, really, I mean, I like the terrorists.
I think they're doing it. I think Trump. Trump's foreign
policy so far has been great. Like, certainly he can't
(46:18):
control Zelenski or putin people give a little bit of
shit for the Rush of Ukraine thing, But literally everything
else he's done, from dealing with Mody and India to
dealing with net and Yahoo and keeping that lunatic from
going completely full retard, you know what I mean, because
you know that he's he's managing a lot foreign policy wise,
and I think he's mostly made the right decisions there,
(46:39):
so I have no complaints about that. But you know,
wins have to be big and they have to be
personal right for people to care. If it's the country
winning a war, that means something people. His approval ratings
went up after that Iranian bombing, not down right, but
since June, since the end of June, they've gone down
ten points because of the beautiful Bill and because of
(47:01):
this Epstein shit. So he's not stupid, He's a smart man.
I think he'll probably figure something out here in the meantime.
But I think he also knows that they got to
cut a lot of spending sometime soon, right probably in September,
because I don't think you'll have another chance to do
it after that, and you have to give people individual
wins somehow.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I don't know what his plan is on that.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yeah, neither do I.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
It'll be it'll be certainly fascinating to see the next
couple of weeks. Uh Dan, Again, just truly appreciate your
insight and your thoughts and your wisdom.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
And I love the idea that we have to.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Hold each other accountable in our sphere of influence and
and and do so in a way that's that's not
damning or calling people out or acting like assholes.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
Right, sure, I mean, like we're dudes, so we're going
to call each other assholes.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
But then, God, then you have to do step two.
You have to go drink the beer afterwards. Right, you
got to do both things. It's not what We're not
here to make enemies obviously, right, that's not the point.
The point is to get the right answer.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
And if you know you're gonna be I just warned
people you're gonna be wrong at some point.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I've done the math for myself. I do a lot
of shows.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
If one percent of the stuff I say is wrong
or stupid, that's three and a half minutes per week
since twenty eighteen. Right, so there's plenty of stupid shit
that I've said, misspoken things, didn't know the right answer,
said something dumb.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
And you know I've I've enjoyed. Well, I don't give
a fuck if somebody comes at me, and go come
at me if I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I don't give
a shit, right, I'll just correct it.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
But you know I have been given uh you know
I I think I've to some degree earned a little
bit of grace here and there. And the way you
earn it is by giving it. That's how grace works. Right,
So I'll actually to people the purpose is to get
the right answer, not to dance on each other's graves.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
You, that serves no purpose whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I agree, oh heartily, Dan, fellow penn Stater buddy, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
God bless you.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Keep doing what you're doing, and maybe in a month
or two we'll get you back on and that'd be awesome.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
God bless you, brother,
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