March 26, 2024 • 35 mins
When a naked and bloody victim of gang violence ran into his Sunday service, Pastor Corey Brooks committed to staying on the rooftop of the motel that was the headquarters of this nonsense until he had enough money to buy it. 94 days later he succeeded and today his $38 million community center is being built there. The Pastor, along with his nonprofit Project Hood, has improved their neighborhood of Woodlawn from Chicago's 3rd most violent one to the 15th. And they're just getting started.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
So yeah, one Sunday, the gang somebody beat this guy
up so bad and he ran into our congregate. Our
church was jam packed. He ran in the lobby but
naked bleeding. He had got me on Sunday morning, Sunday
restrict him and we were like, okay, we gotta do something.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney,
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in
inner City of Memphis. And the last part it unintentionally
led to an oscar for the film about our team.
It's called Undefeated. Y'all. I believe our country's problems will
(00:46):
never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in
nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on seeing
in a box, but rather an army of normal folks USh,
just you and me deciding, Hey, I can help. That's
what Pastor Corey Brooks the voice we just heard is done.
Corey started a church in the third most violent neighborhood
(01:10):
of Chicago, and the work of his church in nonprofit
project Hood has helped improve the neighborhoods so that it's
now the fifteenth most violent one and they're just getting started.
I can't wait for you to meet Corey. Right after
these brief messages from our Jenner sponsors, Pastor Corey Brooks
(01:43):
all the way from Chicago. Welcome to Memphis, brother, Thank
you appreciate it. I'm glad to be here. I was
flight down it was great. You know.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I love Tennessee, so coming to Memphis is a lessons
so I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It's almost a homecoming of sorts. Almost.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'm about sixty miles from Memphis. I was born in
a little town called Union City, Tennessee, but we actually
lived in Kenton, Tennessee, population then of about fifteen hundred.
That's up around Obuying and mckibyan County, that's right, and
an Oby County kid. Yeah, so home of the white squirrel.
It's one of the only places in America that I
know of that has white squirrels. I tell everybody all
(02:17):
the time that I didn't even know squirrels were different colors.
And I can remember when we moved to Indiana, my
first little fight on the playground was about a squirrel.
You know, I was arguing with this kid. Hey, this squirrel,
that's not a squirrel. He was as a brown little thing.
I didn't know what it was. I thought it was
a rat or something.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah. Up there, they've got this albino gene in the square. Yes,
how long you grew up there? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So? Yeah, I was born in Union City, Tennessee, and
we moved to Mounsey, Indiana, when I was about ten
or eleven. And so I grew up in Munsey, Indiana,
And that's where I went to high school. That's where
I went to college fall ball State. Right about the Cardinals, Yes, sir, I.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Believe it or not. I have a friend played football
for Boss. So yeah, so years ago. I don't think
he was any good. So no count talk about. But
that's how I know Ball State's up there.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And David Letterman, David Letterman, Yeah, he's the most famous
graduate of ball State University.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Dad, and he grew up somewhere around there. I think Indianapolis.
Oh that's right. I think you're right. Yeah, that's right.
All right, So mom, dad tell me about it. My dad.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I didn't really know my dad too well. I tell
people I probably saw my dad about five times. He
was from Union City and even though I lived sixteen
miles in Kenton, I didn't have a relationship with him
and didn't know him very well. My mom just recently
died about a year and a half ago of cancer.
But she was a great woman and worked really hard.
(03:45):
Made sure I went to church every Sunday. And you know,
even when I didn't want to go, she made me go.
And that was part of the deal. If you stay
in her house, you got to get up and go
to church on Sunday morning. So and I'm glad she did,
even though I didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I'm glad she did. How many of you were there?
Three of us, all three of you.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
All three of us, Yeah, all three of us gonna
be in a few There's a about a twelve year
gap between me and my younger my younger brothers, So
I was kind of like the babysitter as well. Bet
so did your mom remarry My mom remarried to my stepfather,
who got addicted to drugs. Really wasn't doing very good
when I was a teenager growing up. He wasn't a
(04:24):
good wasn't a good man, but thankfully got saved and
got a relationship with the Lord changed his life. And
he's been drug free now, probably for about thirty years.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But your experience growing up with him was he was
a drug addict.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, experience drawing up with him was horrible. Uh, he
was a drug addict. Always a bunch of drama in
our house, so I remember it very well. And dysfunction, drama, heartache, hardship,
all that goes along with all that stuff. So you
know that on a personal basis, I know it on
a personal base. I think that's I don't think I
(04:58):
know that's one of the reasons why my heart is
so sensitive toward individuals, especially in Chicago, who are in
those kinds of situations. If you come to our church,
you'll find me always around the kids or people who
come from similar background. So I guess my heart is
just kind of turned that way.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I understand. My dad left when I'm a home when
I was four, Mom was married and divorced five times,
and you know, the vast majority of the things I've
done and work in the community has been with kids
who primarily come from that situation. I think we're it's odd,
but I think we're drawn to our own trauma. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think there's a passive scripture in Roma's eight twenty eight.
It's my favorite. It talks about how we know that
all things work together for good to then the Lord,
who are called according to his purpose. And even I
believe now, even all the trauma, heartache, hardship, even though
it hurt, and even though it was a tough experience,
God used it to my advantage. You know, I think
(06:00):
calling is very sensitive toward all the people that I
deal with.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Because of my upbringing, I think that only makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Your upbringing. You may have been in church every Sunday,
but you were an acchoir boy. Oh no through Saturday.
No sense. So tell me about kind of who you
were as a as a teen and kind of coming.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So you know, as a teenager, I knew I was
called to preach at like fourteen.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now I read that you have a heck, you know,
a fourteen years old your quote called to preach? Well,
you know you ain't calling yourself nothing but a street hit.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, when you go to church all the time, you
know you have some idea of at least I believe
you have some idea of a sense of purpose in calling.
That's nudging you, that's pushing you. As you know, some
people will call it conscious. I was very aware of
my spiritual conscious and so at fourteen I kind of
(06:58):
fell lad like, think I'm supposed to be a preacher.
But the problem I despise preachers. I did not want
to be a preacher. I hated you know what, why'd
you just have driving? Chicken eating? That's what that was.
That was my concept, my mindset. These preachers had these
big cats. They just said, who's Brian. Oh, Brian is
(07:20):
my assistant, our chief of staff. He grew up in
our church. He's since he was about thirteen five.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, if y'all hear a background laugh, Brian, Brian, So
what's up? Welcome to show. Yeah, usually I got to
put up with Alex do in the background. So I
got two of you now, so I actually I got
Alex right right right, So if you'll hear a background laugh, right,
So now you talk two of them, Yeah, both underpaid
(07:47):
and both irritating having good interview so much. All right,
So you didn't like preachers because of chicken eating?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
That's all I got out of what you bro You
know I was about that was my mind said. I thought,
you know, these preachers, they just want to have you
know these advents with food and drive Cadillacs. It was
a bad perception of what I thought a preacher was.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, but let's be look, they weren't doing much in
the community. And so I here and we are very candid. Yeah,
I mean, I gotta be careful because I'm a white dude,
and if I don't say this properly, people are going
to color me the wrong way. But it's not just
(08:32):
a perception in urban areas. Yeah, there are some situations
where pastoring a church is more of a profession than
a calling. Yeah, and that's what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Absolutely, absolutely, And I just did not want to be
a preacher, and so I did everything I could to
rebel against that whole mindset, that whole concept. So fourteen
to nineteen, I was partying, drinking, sex and anything I
could do to like not be in tune with church.
(09:08):
Still in Muni Yeah, still in Munsey, Indiana, smoking weed,
smoking weed, Although I tell my son, I didn't do
that much weed smoking. I did a lot of beer drinking.
Thought it, especially when I found out my junior year,
I think it was my junior or somephomore year, I
was a real skinny kid and They told me I
needed to gain some weight. And I remember seeing a
(09:28):
minute bowl in the Jet magazine on a beer diet
and they was using it to game.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Wait, that's all the excuses I need. But the chicken
eating would have helped too. So the chicken eating would
have helped tremendously. Chicken and beer. So in Memphis, the
man who I would say was maybe the most influential
pastor in my life. It's man named Tim Russell. He's
from the Northeast. He's passed now. He died in COVID
(09:56):
and I loved him, still love him. I still will
have his text messages on my phone that I refused
to erase, and sometimes when I'm in a bad spot,
I will pull up his text and just read them
as encouragement. I love that man. Anyway. He was president
(10:16):
at Geneva College at one time, and he came to Memphis.
He became an associate pastor of our church. But he
came to Memphis specifically originally to be the chair of
the Memphis Center for Urban Theological seminary called Imcuts. And
what it was was a bunch of folks got together
(10:39):
and said, you know what, there's a lot of really
well intentioned churches and pastors in their cities, but a
lot of those guys had in those churches hadn't been
afforded a true seminary education, and so there's a lot
of preaching from the Old Testament, there's a lot of
firm brimstone, but there's a little bit of theology you
(11:00):
missing in some of it. And we don't want to
doubt them, you know, we want to help them. So
they started this Memphis Center for Urban Theological Seminary where
they offered opportunity for urban preachers to come in and
get true theological seminary training to then go back with
their churches to hopefully grow a Christian narrative beyond what
(11:24):
their limitations had been. And in large part it was
pretty successful. But when I hear you talk about what
you were put off by, it sounds something like some
of that. Yeah, Yeah, it was something like that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
The whole idea and concept that here you had these
guys who were in the community, but they weren't really
at least the ones I saw at that time, they
weren't really helping the community. Until I came across a
pastor that I love to this day, very Dealey has
demensia now, but he's my pastor, and I still treated
me like a son.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
His name is Willie J.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Jackson, who also drove a Cadillac. But he was man
reverent and loved the Lord and loved people.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And when I saw that, I was like, Okay, that's
who I wanted to be when I was thinking fourteen
years old. Yeah, and now a few messages from our
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(12:38):
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for listening today, we'll be right back. We now returned
(13:04):
to Pastor Brooks graduating from Ball State with a degree
in political science. He thought that he also wanted to
be a lawyer, but in his first year of law school,
he realized that he really needed to be in seminary.
And after graduating from Dallas Theological Pastor Brooks was off
to the races with his new calling.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
So I started passing a little bit small church in Richmond, Indiana.
I was there for an internship and over the summer
when the pastor died. So while I was there, the
pastor died, and you know, I had every intention on
going back to Dallas, and they came to me and
was like, hey, would you be our pastor? You know,
(13:48):
and I was like, oh wow. So I thought about
it and I made the commitment. So I was like,
I might as well. So at twenty two years old,
twenty three, get me returned. Twenty three, I started pastoring
the Mount Mariah Baptist Church in Richmond, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Not enough experience, not enough wisdom, but it's funny. At
twenty three years old, they let me practice on them.
At twenty three years old, I got my first head
football coach. Well you and I showed it. I showed
up as just a football coach. In two weeks before
the first game, the head coach said I'm out, deuces,
I got a better job out and they look at
me and said you're yeah yeah. So when I say
(14:27):
not enough experience of wisdom to run a church, absolutely
I didn't have the experience of wisdom runner football team either.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
So yeah, you fake it. You fake it till you
make it. And that's exactly what I was doing, you know,
But you grew up quick. You grew up quick. And
whenever I get a chance to go back there, I
always tell them how much I appreciate them letting me
grew up in front of them and let me make
all kinds of mistakes and let me be arrogant, and
you know, teaching me and loving me through all of
(14:55):
that was It was a great experience. And then when
I got married, it was even a greater experience because
they loved me and my wife dearly.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It wasn't an all black church.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
It was an all black church. We had a few
white members, but it's predominantly it's predominantly black church.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I asked that because I said to you before we
got on, I think it's reprehensible that we call ourselves
Christians and are called to be christ Like, and we
allow Sunday to be the most segregated day in our country.
I don't mean that as a cut to you being
at an all black church, no more than I grew
up in an all white church. I just it's so
(15:31):
infrequent that we actually talk about really diverse churches, and
it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It's very unfortunate, And you know, even though I pass
on the South side of Chicago.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
One of the things that it pains me dearly is
that we don't have more experiences where we come together
as people of different races. I really, you know, I
would love to pastor multi racial church. And to this point,
now we're considering trying to have We got all these
Venezuela migrants who are right in our neighborhood, and they
(16:07):
come to us every day for help, and so we're
helping as many as we can. So we are we're contemplating, Hey,
maybe we should have a Spanish speaking worship service because
they're now starting to come to our church and now
they're listening to me, but they don't even speak English
some of the most parts. So you know, it pains
me that that there's so much segregation in church and
(16:29):
that I wish there were more experiences where all of
us come together, because I think that's the height of
what Christianity is really supposed to be about.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So you leave there and you go to.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I leave Richmond, Indiana, and I go to the most
traditional Baptist church in all of the world, West Point Baptists.
The West Point Baptist Church, the bastion of the I'm
about twenty six, So.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
You're twenty six up in Chicago and you go to
this real traditional Baptist church called West Point Baptist. Tell
me about it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So you know West Point Baptist Church. They it was
made up of a lot of teachers, lawyers, more of
a in the words of my grandfather from Tennessee, he
would call it a high cotton church.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
One of them high cotton churches. He didn't know what
it is. I didn't know where's she? Where are you from?
I'm from Chicago, but my family is from his mother good. Well,
you know it's all about yeah, okay, go ahead. So
so you know when I'm at this high cotton church
(17:35):
in Chicago and uh, and I'm not fit too good.
I'm not fitting in too good. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
They loved me at first, but I really had a
heart toward reaching people who were unchurched. The church ironically
was on the edge of the projects a lot of
I found out later that a lot of people who
probably had grown up in the projects when if the
college become professional, but they still came to this church.
(18:04):
And so it was made up of an older congregation.
I really started going after the young people in the neighborhood,
and the church was growing by leaps and bounds. But
even though it was growing, it was it was such
an internal fight going on that I tried to shield
people who were new to church. I tried to shield
(18:25):
them away from it, but it was obvious they felt
like we were taking over their church.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
They didn't want you tearing up the neighborhood. Yeah, they
didn't want me to tearing up the neighborhood. They didn't
want me tearing up the neighborhood, and they didn't want
to mean in their church. Ironically, I mean, in all candor,
that's prejudiced, yeah, without doubt. But it's economic prejudice. It's
(18:52):
economic prejudice because we're not talking about prejudice educational economic
prejudice exactly, which I'm so glad you used that phrase,
because that exists and that ain't got nothing to do
with white and black folks. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
You know, I tell people all the time that I
really think the biggest prejudices that we face today.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Is not color, but economics and education. Culture. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Culture, We're so divided because of those things, more so
than color, And I think we find, you know, you'll
find poor blacks and poor whites saying and poor people
period saying the same things.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So we know after hearing this that you leave and
we'll go to where you leave, but we're going to
take a detour real quick, sent sure political science, Okay,
all right. One of my big beliefs is that Fox, CNN,
CNBC News Mix, all of those folks are incented by
(19:55):
an enormous amount of wealth and power to craft narratives
that divide us. And I think DC is full of
a lot of lobbies politicians. I mean New York and
DC is the cradle of finance and power. Throw in Chicago,
(20:16):
in LA. But New York and d C are the
leaders of the pack. That's where we get our media,
that's where we get our news from, that's where we
get our policy from. And it's also piled with an
enormous amount of influence, power and wealth. But narratives that
(20:37):
come out of there are also crafted to divide us,
scare us, to convince us that if you don't side
with me on Fox or CNN, and you don't side
with me on Republican or Democrats, this is what the
big bag ugly people on the other side are going
to do to ruin your right. That happens in the
(20:58):
church too, oh doubt, without a doubt, it happens all
the time, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I think people are afraid of differences, and we magnify
those differences so that people become even more afraid so
they can stay the way they are and people don't
have to grow and they don't have to build relationships.
But I think the more meaningful way is to have dialogue,
to have discussion. And I think when we even when
(21:24):
we're on the left or the right, where the republic
or a Democrat, if we have meaningful dialogue, meaningful discussion,
regardless of we're Baptists or Presbyterian, if we sit down
and talk, we're going to find out we have way
more things in common than we do not in common.
And I think sometimes we need to just let's focus
(21:44):
on the things that we have in common. We don't
have to fight about every single thing. And just because
we disagree on a couple of things, that doesn't mean
we can't come together and unify and solve some of
the issues of the world that we all want to solve.
And I think I think somehow, some way, we got
to continue to try to fight to bring people together, regardless.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Of what's your time at West Point Baptist Church is
a microcosm of that narrative that was rejected.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yes, it was rejected totally. You know, the fact that
you could be on the South Side of Chicago and
not be welcome to reach out to people who are
disenfranchised and disadvantaged and impoverished by black and by black.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
People making you feel that way.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I had never witnessed that or experienced that, and to
see it, I was dumbfounded. I was amazed that you
could be in a black community and have elites not
want to deal with certain individuals.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But that's exactly what it was.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And I think that experience has helped to craft some
of the way I think about certain elites.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Black elites. That is really, really profound. We'll be right back.
I gotta tell a story. Yes, go ahead, I'm gonna
do the reader's digest. At Leasta like shrimp, I was
(23:17):
on the coast on a business trip. She told me
to go get some shrimp, put it on ice, and
bring it home because we're gonna have a shrimp bolk
coast to Memphis five hours so I went to Target,
got a thing, and I went got some ice, put
it on there, and I went down to the docks
to wait on the shrimp boats. You ever been on
the docks and a wharf? Yes? You ever been there, Brian?
You ever been on docks of the wharf? Yes? It stinks, yes,
(23:39):
dish guts yeah, stagnant water. It's future. It makes you
want to vomit. It smell so bad. Well, I found
something distincts worse than the wharf. The fishermen. The boats
show up and I'm waiting on my shrimp, and here
they are. They've been out since sun up. Yeah, sundown
coming up. They've been hit with sulfur everything, sweat, toothpaste
(24:01):
and toothbrushers are more of a suggestion of environment, and
don't smoke tupacs of marble red right, And they're repulsive.
And so I'm at the suppulsive place around these repulsive people.
But my wife told me, get shrimp. I'll do it, shrimp.
So I'm headed home. I bot Jack's, Mississippi, which about
halfway between the docks and Memphis, and the dawns on me.
(24:22):
That's exactly who Christ surrounded himself. Wow, yeah, now what
are we doing sitting in hogh cotton when there's people
around us starving?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, and that's that's that's kind of how I felt
in that church. You know, all of these people are around,
they're hurting, they're living in the projects. There's so much
there's so much violence and so much chaos. But here
we were in this church and everybody was happy just
staying like they were and not reaching out to individuals.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I couldn't. I couldn't stand it. And yeah, and your
heart was there because that was your reality of your
up brain. Absolutely. Yeah, So I moved.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And you know, you don't see you don't see it
at first, but as you get older, like I am now,
you look back over the trauma as your childhood and
you look back to where your heart is bent toward.
You're like, man, thank you Lord, And I'm glad that
God placed me in Chicago, because I tell people all
the time, you know, I could have easily gone when
(25:29):
you come around of Dallas and Graciologically, you could go
anywhere in the country. You can go to the suburb
church and have a nice picket fence and grow your
family and have a nice place. But I thank God
every day that he placed me on the South side
of Chicago, and people they think I grew up there.
They think it's so such a perfect fit. And I
(25:50):
thank God because those are the individuals that I love
the minister to. Those are the individuals that I love
to be around. I can remember my wife used to
get so angry. She's like, why are you around all
these guys in gangs all the time. It's just a
bunch of gangsters around. But that's who I felt led
the minister to, and that's who God put me in
front of, and I'm thankful for it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
So West Point Baptist he went to.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
So I left West I said, you know what, I'm
not going to fight them any longer. Let me let
them have their church. I'm going to plan a church
at Dallas. One of the first things I remembered they
had a missions week. I didn't even know what missions was,
and so they had a missions week. And during missions week,
I went by this table and it was about church planning.
(26:41):
And I had never heard of church planning. I heard
the church splits, church fights, not church planning, and so
so I would read about church planning, study about church planning.
I was like, this is what I'm going to do.
I'm going to plan a church. But when I got
called the Mount Mariah and I got called the West Point,
I thought, you know, that's what I'm supposed to do.
Because at that time I never heard I didn't know
(27:04):
any black pastors who were planning churches. But then when
I had that experience at West Point, I was like,
you know what, I'm going to do what I learned
at Dallas. I'm going to plan a church and I'm
going to try it. So I followed the little steps.
I got me a little group together, called some of
my buddies who were in Chicago, said Hey, I'm going
(27:24):
to start a church. I talked about five people who
were at the church with me and secretly told them
what I was going to do. We started meeting as
a little small group, and before you knew it, the
little small group, we turned it into a church called
New Beginning's Church of Chicago. We started meeting in a school,
and I was able to go after those same people
(27:45):
that they didn't want in their church, and it instantly
started growing like crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I've always wondered how does a pastor feed his family
when he's planning a church, Because there's not a whole
lot of people given offerings, ties and everything else. Do
you starve when you're doing it?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Well, no, you starve a little bit. You don't have
as much money. So I did work. You know, I've
worked at the Athletic Athletes foot for like a year.
My wife was a teacher.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Was my question. So you're actually working, yeah, a job
while you're also building a church. So I mean it's
a taxing, it's hard work. It's an entrepreneurial endeavor. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And plus I've always been a good store, even when
I was passing the little bit church. I've always always
always saved money and I've been good financially. God blessed
me to to so you were able to at the
weather I budget it. Let me just say that I
know how to budget, and we knew how to sustain
(28:46):
ourselves and survive off a little. We didn't have a lot,
and we thank God for what we had, but we
didn't we didn't need a lot at that time.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Got it and so New Beginnings Church November two thousand
and the heart of one of the most dangerous neighborhoods
called Woodlawn. Yeah, tell me about Woodlawn.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So Chicago is made up early history of the mobs,
the mafia. You got all the mafia people, but not
only mafia in Chicago. That's where a lot of gangs originated.
So the Woodline area on the south side of Chicago
is where all the gangs in Chicago started, specifically in
(29:32):
like six yeah, the sixties. In the sixties, the Woodline
area is where black gang started.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
So okay, and I was thinking, wise guys, you're saying
the black gangs.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, but before that, al Capone's home was in the
Woodlawn area.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So as those Italian brothers moved out and blacks moved
in in the sixties, Blacks in the late sixties, that
where gangs. A lot of gangs started right in Woodland.
The Black Pea Stones they started there, the Gangster Disciples,
the Black Disciples, all of those top gangs on the.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
South side of Chicago started in Woodlawn. And you blop
a church down.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, we said, okay, where's the roughest area in Chicago
on the south side, And everybody was like.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Woodlawn, Woodlawn, Woodline.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And at that time I hadn't I wasn't real familiar
with Woodland, even though because I was in the Bronxbury area.
I knew a little bit about it, and we started
going visiting it, and I started telling people I wanted
to plan a church. I went and talked to the
aldermen in that area who's now a member of our
present church, and I told her I wanted to put
a church in her neighborhood. And she was really receptive,
and she showed me some buildings and none of them
(30:47):
really appealed. And then I met this gentleman. His name
was Herman Roberts. He was one of the first black
hotel owners in Chicago, and he had this place called
the Roberts Show Club and Lounge, and had this old
skating rink.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And the skating rink was horrible.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I mean by this time, by this time, this skating
rink was a dump, emptied. It had been empty for
like five years, and they were having I don't know
if you're familiar with it, but they were having what
they call rave parties. And so the white kids from
the suburbs would come with the black kids in Woodland
and they would have these rave parties at this abandoned building.
(31:23):
That's what this skating ron does. That work out wonder
it was. It was from what I hear, it was
a very crazy scene.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
So mister Robert would taking these buildings without people knowing
and just have like.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, they they just have a weekend parties. They do
them now they have, you know, warehouses in Chicago where
they have big parties and things like that, raves, pop
up raves, pop up parties. I don't know what they
call them now. But so that's what was going on.
That's what was going this place. Yes, and you buy.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
We bought it.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So everybody was like, didn't even have wire left in
it was.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
There was no plumbing, it was no wires. It was
it was.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
It was horrible, I mean horrible, but chee well, it
really wasn't real cheap. Mister Roberts was a uh you know,
he was he was different. So he made us pay
five hundred thousand dollars for the building and and the
and the property and uh but we had our church.
We had saved up that amount of money, so we
were able to acquire it and purchase it.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
But if it was a skating rink and bowling al
a type thing, it was probably a rather large.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Oh yeah, it was large. It was a large it's
for Chicago. It was a very large footprint, it had parking,
it had space. It's you know, fifty thousand square feet
in Chicago is a lot. And then they have some
some parking. That's even remarkable. So we were able to
get that building. And it was a mess, and we
(32:50):
we we we gutted the whole building. We volunteered, our
church volunteered, everybody volunteered. It took us months and many
many dumpsters to empty that whole building out. Then we started,
you know, trying to raise money to fix it up,
and we finally were able to convince even how we
convinced the bank to give us a loan was amazing,
(33:10):
But we finally convinced the bank to give us a loan,
and we fixed it up and now we thankfully we
paid that loan off and we're Jebt free.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
What was do you remember the date of the first
real live church service?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
So the first live worship service would have been two
thousand and seven. Wow, so yeah, two thousand, so we
started that's not that long. Oh no, So we started
our church in two thousand. Two thousand and seven, we
were in the skating ring. Yeah, we were, Yeah, we
were we were we were having a church in the
(33:43):
former skating ring Jesus.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It was called a Route six.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
The skating ring was called Route sixty six, and so
everybody was familiar with the skating rink and everybody was
amazed that we were able to turn it into a church.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Did people from the neighborhood start showing up?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
That's what happened, people, because everybody knew the building. People
really started coming just to see, you know, what did
they do with the skating rink? You know, out of curiosity.
And then once they came out of curiosity or invitation,
they really liked what we were doing. And we were
really focusing on trying to reach unchurched people, people who
had normally either been rejected by church, or turned off
(34:21):
by church, or just totally left church.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
That's the group that we were like you as a
kid didn't like Astris absolutely. And that concludes part one
of my conversation with Pastor Corey Brooks, and you do
not want to miss part two that's now available to
listen to. Its Corey's transformative work and Woodlawn is just
(34:44):
getting started. Together. Guys, we can change the country, and
it starts with you. I'll see in Part two,
So yeah, one Sunday, the gang somebody beat this guy
up so bad and he ran into our congregate. Our
church was jam packed. He ran in the lobby but
naked bleeding. He had got me on Sunday morning, Sunday
restrict him and we were like, okay, we gotta do something.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney,
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in
inner City of Memphis. And the last part it unintentionally
led to an oscar for the film about our team.
It's called Undefeated. Y'all. I believe our country's problems will
(00:46):
never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in
nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on seeing
in a box, but rather an army of normal folks USh,
just you and me deciding, Hey, I can help. That's
what Pastor Corey Brooks the voice we just heard is done.
Corey started a church in the third most violent neighborhood
(01:10):
of Chicago, and the work of his church in nonprofit
project Hood has helped improve the neighborhoods so that it's
now the fifteenth most violent one and they're just getting started.
I can't wait for you to meet Corey. Right after
these brief messages from our Jenner sponsors, Pastor Corey Brooks
(01:43):
all the way from Chicago. Welcome to Memphis, brother, Thank
you appreciate it. I'm glad to be here. I was
flight down it was great. You know.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I love Tennessee, so coming to Memphis is a lessons
so I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It's almost a homecoming of sorts. Almost.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'm about sixty miles from Memphis. I was born in
a little town called Union City, Tennessee, but we actually
lived in Kenton, Tennessee, population then of about fifteen hundred.
That's up around Obuying and mckibyan County, that's right, and
an Oby County kid. Yeah, so home of the white squirrel.
It's one of the only places in America that I
know of that has white squirrels. I tell everybody all
(02:17):
the time that I didn't even know squirrels were different colors.
And I can remember when we moved to Indiana, my
first little fight on the playground was about a squirrel.
You know, I was arguing with this kid. Hey, this squirrel,
that's not a squirrel. He was as a brown little thing.
I didn't know what it was. I thought it was
a rat or something.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah. Up there, they've got this albino gene in the square. Yes,
how long you grew up there? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So? Yeah, I was born in Union City, Tennessee, and
we moved to Mounsey, Indiana, when I was about ten
or eleven. And so I grew up in Munsey, Indiana,
And that's where I went to high school. That's where
I went to college fall ball State. Right about the Cardinals, Yes, sir, I.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Believe it or not. I have a friend played football
for Boss. So yeah, so years ago. I don't think
he was any good. So no count talk about. But
that's how I know Ball State's up there.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And David Letterman, David Letterman, Yeah, he's the most famous
graduate of ball State University.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Dad, and he grew up somewhere around there. I think Indianapolis.
Oh that's right. I think you're right. Yeah, that's right.
All right, So mom, dad tell me about it. My dad.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I didn't really know my dad too well. I tell
people I probably saw my dad about five times. He
was from Union City and even though I lived sixteen
miles in Kenton, I didn't have a relationship with him
and didn't know him very well. My mom just recently
died about a year and a half ago of cancer.
But she was a great woman and worked really hard.
(03:45):
Made sure I went to church every Sunday. And you know,
even when I didn't want to go, she made me go.
And that was part of the deal. If you stay
in her house, you got to get up and go
to church on Sunday morning. So and I'm glad she did,
even though I didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I'm glad she did. How many of you were there?
Three of us, all three of you.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
All three of us, Yeah, all three of us gonna
be in a few There's a about a twelve year
gap between me and my younger my younger brothers, So
I was kind of like the babysitter as well. Bet
so did your mom remarry My mom remarried to my stepfather,
who got addicted to drugs. Really wasn't doing very good
when I was a teenager growing up. He wasn't a
(04:24):
good wasn't a good man, but thankfully got saved and
got a relationship with the Lord changed his life. And
he's been drug free now, probably for about thirty years.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But your experience growing up with him was he was
a drug addict.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, experience drawing up with him was horrible. Uh, he
was a drug addict. Always a bunch of drama in
our house, so I remember it very well. And dysfunction, drama, heartache, hardship,
all that goes along with all that stuff. So you
know that on a personal basis, I know it on
a personal base. I think that's I don't think I
(04:58):
know that's one of the reasons why my heart is
so sensitive toward individuals, especially in Chicago, who are in
those kinds of situations. If you come to our church,
you'll find me always around the kids or people who
come from similar background. So I guess my heart is
just kind of turned that way.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I understand. My dad left when I'm a home when
I was four, Mom was married and divorced five times,
and you know, the vast majority of the things I've
done and work in the community has been with kids
who primarily come from that situation. I think we're it's odd,
but I think we're drawn to our own trauma. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think there's a passive scripture in Roma's eight twenty eight.
It's my favorite. It talks about how we know that
all things work together for good to then the Lord,
who are called according to his purpose. And even I
believe now, even all the trauma, heartache, hardship, even though
it hurt, and even though it was a tough experience,
God used it to my advantage. You know, I think
(06:00):
calling is very sensitive toward all the people that I
deal with.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Because of my upbringing, I think that only makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Your upbringing. You may have been in church every Sunday,
but you were an acchoir boy. Oh no through Saturday.
No sense. So tell me about kind of who you
were as a as a teen and kind of coming.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So you know, as a teenager, I knew I was
called to preach at like fourteen.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now I read that you have a heck, you know,
a fourteen years old your quote called to preach? Well,
you know you ain't calling yourself nothing but a street hit.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, when you go to church all the time, you
know you have some idea of at least I believe
you have some idea of a sense of purpose in calling.
That's nudging you, that's pushing you. As you know, some
people will call it conscious. I was very aware of
my spiritual conscious and so at fourteen I kind of
(06:58):
fell lad like, think I'm supposed to be a preacher.
But the problem I despise preachers. I did not want
to be a preacher. I hated you know what, why'd
you just have driving? Chicken eating? That's what that was.
That was my concept, my mindset. These preachers had these
big cats. They just said, who's Brian. Oh, Brian is
(07:20):
my assistant, our chief of staff. He grew up in
our church. He's since he was about thirteen five.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, if y'all hear a background laugh, Brian, Brian, So
what's up? Welcome to show. Yeah, usually I got to
put up with Alex do in the background. So I
got two of you now, so I actually I got
Alex right right right, So if you'll hear a background laugh, right,
So now you talk two of them, Yeah, both underpaid
(07:47):
and both irritating having good interview so much. All right,
So you didn't like preachers because of chicken eating?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
That's all I got out of what you bro You
know I was about that was my mind said. I thought,
you know, these preachers, they just want to have you
know these advents with food and drive Cadillacs. It was
a bad perception of what I thought a preacher was.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, but let's be look, they weren't doing much in
the community. And so I here and we are very candid. Yeah,
I mean, I gotta be careful because I'm a white dude,
and if I don't say this properly, people are going
to color me the wrong way. But it's not just
(08:32):
a perception in urban areas. Yeah, there are some situations
where pastoring a church is more of a profession than
a calling. Yeah, and that's what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Absolutely, absolutely, And I just did not want to be
a preacher, and so I did everything I could to
rebel against that whole mindset, that whole concept. So fourteen
to nineteen, I was partying, drinking, sex and anything I
could do to like not be in tune with church.
(09:08):
Still in Muni Yeah, still in Munsey, Indiana, smoking weed,
smoking weed, Although I tell my son, I didn't do
that much weed smoking. I did a lot of beer drinking.
Thought it, especially when I found out my junior year,
I think it was my junior or somephomore year, I
was a real skinny kid and They told me I
needed to gain some weight. And I remember seeing a
(09:28):
minute bowl in the Jet magazine on a beer diet
and they was using it to game.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Wait, that's all the excuses I need. But the chicken
eating would have helped too. So the chicken eating would
have helped tremendously. Chicken and beer. So in Memphis, the
man who I would say was maybe the most influential
pastor in my life. It's man named Tim Russell. He's
from the Northeast. He's passed now. He died in COVID
(09:56):
and I loved him, still love him. I still will
have his text messages on my phone that I refused
to erase, and sometimes when I'm in a bad spot,
I will pull up his text and just read them
as encouragement. I love that man. Anyway. He was president
(10:16):
at Geneva College at one time, and he came to Memphis.
He became an associate pastor of our church. But he
came to Memphis specifically originally to be the chair of
the Memphis Center for Urban Theological seminary called Imcuts. And
what it was was a bunch of folks got together
(10:39):
and said, you know what, there's a lot of really
well intentioned churches and pastors in their cities, but a
lot of those guys had in those churches hadn't been
afforded a true seminary education, and so there's a lot
of preaching from the Old Testament, there's a lot of
firm brimstone, but there's a little bit of theology you
(11:00):
missing in some of it. And we don't want to
doubt them, you know, we want to help them. So
they started this Memphis Center for Urban Theological Seminary where
they offered opportunity for urban preachers to come in and
get true theological seminary training to then go back with
their churches to hopefully grow a Christian narrative beyond what
(11:24):
their limitations had been. And in large part it was
pretty successful. But when I hear you talk about what
you were put off by, it sounds something like some
of that. Yeah, Yeah, it was something like that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
The whole idea and concept that here you had these
guys who were in the community, but they weren't really
at least the ones I saw at that time, they
weren't really helping the community. Until I came across a
pastor that I love to this day, very Dealey has
demensia now, but he's my pastor, and I still treated
me like a son.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
His name is Willie J.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Jackson, who also drove a Cadillac. But he was man
reverent and loved the Lord and loved people.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And when I saw that, I was like, Okay, that's
who I wanted to be when I was thinking fourteen
years old. Yeah, and now a few messages from our
general sponsors. But first, I hope you'll subscribe to an
army of normal folks wherever you listen to podcasts, so
(12:38):
that every episode shows up in your library each week.
And if you haven't already, please rate and review us
so that more normal folks can discover their army. Thanks
for listening today, we'll be right back. We now returned
(13:04):
to Pastor Brooks graduating from Ball State with a degree
in political science. He thought that he also wanted to
be a lawyer, but in his first year of law school,
he realized that he really needed to be in seminary.
And after graduating from Dallas Theological Pastor Brooks was off
to the races with his new calling.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
So I started passing a little bit small church in Richmond, Indiana.
I was there for an internship and over the summer
when the pastor died. So while I was there, the
pastor died, and you know, I had every intention on
going back to Dallas, and they came to me and
was like, hey, would you be our pastor? You know,
(13:48):
and I was like, oh wow. So I thought about
it and I made the commitment. So I was like,
I might as well. So at twenty two years old,
twenty three, get me returned. Twenty three, I started pastoring
the Mount Mariah Baptist Church in Richmond, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Not enough experience, not enough wisdom, but it's funny. At
twenty three years old, they let me practice on them.
At twenty three years old, I got my first head
football coach. Well you and I showed it. I showed
up as just a football coach. In two weeks before
the first game, the head coach said I'm out, deuces,
I got a better job out and they look at
me and said you're yeah yeah. So when I say
(14:27):
not enough experience of wisdom to run a church, absolutely
I didn't have the experience of wisdom runner football team either.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
So yeah, you fake it. You fake it till you
make it. And that's exactly what I was doing, you know,
But you grew up quick. You grew up quick. And
whenever I get a chance to go back there, I
always tell them how much I appreciate them letting me
grew up in front of them and let me make
all kinds of mistakes and let me be arrogant, and
you know, teaching me and loving me through all of
(14:55):
that was It was a great experience. And then when
I got married, it was even a greater experience because
they loved me and my wife dearly.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It wasn't an all black church.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
It was an all black church. We had a few
white members, but it's predominantly it's predominantly black church.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I asked that because I said to you before we
got on, I think it's reprehensible that we call ourselves
Christians and are called to be christ Like, and we
allow Sunday to be the most segregated day in our country.
I don't mean that as a cut to you being
at an all black church, no more than I grew
up in an all white church. I just it's so
(15:31):
infrequent that we actually talk about really diverse churches, and
it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It's very unfortunate, And you know, even though I pass
on the South side of Chicago.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
One of the things that it pains me dearly is
that we don't have more experiences where we come together
as people of different races. I really, you know, I
would love to pastor multi racial church. And to this point,
now we're considering trying to have We got all these
Venezuela migrants who are right in our neighborhood, and they
(16:07):
come to us every day for help, and so we're
helping as many as we can. So we are we're contemplating, Hey,
maybe we should have a Spanish speaking worship service because
they're now starting to come to our church and now
they're listening to me, but they don't even speak English
some of the most parts. So you know, it pains
me that that there's so much segregation in church and
(16:29):
that I wish there were more experiences where all of
us come together, because I think that's the height of
what Christianity is really supposed to be about.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So you leave there and you go to.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I leave Richmond, Indiana, and I go to the most
traditional Baptist church in all of the world, West Point Baptists.
The West Point Baptist Church, the bastion of the I'm
about twenty six, So.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
You're twenty six up in Chicago and you go to
this real traditional Baptist church called West Point Baptist. Tell
me about it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So you know West Point Baptist Church. They it was
made up of a lot of teachers, lawyers, more of
a in the words of my grandfather from Tennessee, he
would call it a high cotton church.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
One of them high cotton churches. He didn't know what
it is. I didn't know where's she? Where are you from?
I'm from Chicago, but my family is from his mother good. Well,
you know it's all about yeah, okay, go ahead. So
so you know when I'm at this high cotton church
(17:35):
in Chicago and uh, and I'm not fit too good.
I'm not fitting in too good. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
They loved me at first, but I really had a
heart toward reaching people who were unchurched. The church ironically
was on the edge of the projects a lot of
I found out later that a lot of people who
probably had grown up in the projects when if the
college become professional, but they still came to this church.
(18:04):
And so it was made up of an older congregation.
I really started going after the young people in the neighborhood,
and the church was growing by leaps and bounds. But
even though it was growing, it was it was such
an internal fight going on that I tried to shield
people who were new to church. I tried to shield
(18:25):
them away from it, but it was obvious they felt
like we were taking over their church.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
They didn't want you tearing up the neighborhood. Yeah, they
didn't want me to tearing up the neighborhood. They didn't
want me tearing up the neighborhood, and they didn't want
to mean in their church. Ironically, I mean, in all candor,
that's prejudiced, yeah, without doubt. But it's economic prejudice. It's
(18:52):
economic prejudice because we're not talking about prejudice educational economic
prejudice exactly, which I'm so glad you used that phrase,
because that exists and that ain't got nothing to do
with white and black folks. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
You know, I tell people all the time that I
really think the biggest prejudices that we face today.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Is not color, but economics and education. Culture. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Culture, We're so divided because of those things, more so
than color, And I think we find, you know, you'll
find poor blacks and poor whites saying and poor people
period saying the same things.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So we know after hearing this that you leave and
we'll go to where you leave, but we're going to
take a detour real quick, sent sure political science, Okay,
all right. One of my big beliefs is that Fox, CNN,
CNBC News Mix, all of those folks are incented by
(19:55):
an enormous amount of wealth and power to craft narratives
that divide us. And I think DC is full of
a lot of lobbies politicians. I mean New York and
DC is the cradle of finance and power. Throw in Chicago,
(20:16):
in LA. But New York and d C are the
leaders of the pack. That's where we get our media,
that's where we get our news from, that's where we
get our policy from. And it's also piled with an
enormous amount of influence, power and wealth. But narratives that
(20:37):
come out of there are also crafted to divide us,
scare us, to convince us that if you don't side
with me on Fox or CNN, and you don't side
with me on Republican or Democrats, this is what the
big bag ugly people on the other side are going
to do to ruin your right. That happens in the
(20:58):
church too, oh doubt, without a doubt, it happens all
the time, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I think people are afraid of differences, and we magnify
those differences so that people become even more afraid so
they can stay the way they are and people don't
have to grow and they don't have to build relationships.
But I think the more meaningful way is to have dialogue,
to have discussion. And I think when we even when
(21:24):
we're on the left or the right, where the republic
or a Democrat, if we have meaningful dialogue, meaningful discussion,
regardless of we're Baptists or Presbyterian, if we sit down
and talk, we're going to find out we have way
more things in common than we do not in common.
And I think sometimes we need to just let's focus
(21:44):
on the things that we have in common. We don't
have to fight about every single thing. And just because
we disagree on a couple of things, that doesn't mean
we can't come together and unify and solve some of
the issues of the world that we all want to solve.
And I think I think somehow, some way, we got
to continue to try to fight to bring people together, regardless.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Of what's your time at West Point Baptist Church is
a microcosm of that narrative that was rejected.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yes, it was rejected totally. You know, the fact that
you could be on the South Side of Chicago and
not be welcome to reach out to people who are
disenfranchised and disadvantaged and impoverished by black and by black.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
People making you feel that way.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I had never witnessed that or experienced that, and to
see it, I was dumbfounded. I was amazed that you
could be in a black community and have elites not
want to deal with certain individuals.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But that's exactly what it was.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And I think that experience has helped to craft some
of the way I think about certain elites.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Black elites. That is really, really profound. We'll be right back.
I gotta tell a story. Yes, go ahead, I'm gonna
do the reader's digest. At Leasta like shrimp, I was
(23:17):
on the coast on a business trip. She told me
to go get some shrimp, put it on ice, and
bring it home because we're gonna have a shrimp bolk
coast to Memphis five hours so I went to Target,
got a thing, and I went got some ice, put
it on there, and I went down to the docks
to wait on the shrimp boats. You ever been on
the docks and a wharf? Yes? You ever been there, Brian?
You ever been on docks of the wharf? Yes? It stinks, yes,
(23:39):
dish guts yeah, stagnant water. It's future. It makes you
want to vomit. It smell so bad. Well, I found
something distincts worse than the wharf. The fishermen. The boats
show up and I'm waiting on my shrimp, and here
they are. They've been out since sun up. Yeah, sundown
coming up. They've been hit with sulfur everything, sweat, toothpaste
(24:01):
and toothbrushers are more of a suggestion of environment, and
don't smoke tupacs of marble red right, And they're repulsive.
And so I'm at the suppulsive place around these repulsive people.
But my wife told me, get shrimp. I'll do it, shrimp.
So I'm headed home. I bot Jack's, Mississippi, which about
halfway between the docks and Memphis, and the dawns on me.
(24:22):
That's exactly who Christ surrounded himself. Wow, yeah, now what
are we doing sitting in hogh cotton when there's people
around us starving?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, and that's that's that's kind of how I felt
in that church. You know, all of these people are around,
they're hurting, they're living in the projects. There's so much
there's so much violence and so much chaos. But here
we were in this church and everybody was happy just
staying like they were and not reaching out to individuals.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I couldn't. I couldn't stand it. And yeah, and your
heart was there because that was your reality of your
up brain. Absolutely. Yeah, So I moved.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And you know, you don't see you don't see it
at first, but as you get older, like I am now,
you look back over the trauma as your childhood and
you look back to where your heart is bent toward.
You're like, man, thank you Lord, And I'm glad that
God placed me in Chicago, because I tell people all
the time, you know, I could have easily gone when
(25:29):
you come around of Dallas and Graciologically, you could go
anywhere in the country. You can go to the suburb
church and have a nice picket fence and grow your
family and have a nice place. But I thank God
every day that he placed me on the South side
of Chicago, and people they think I grew up there.
They think it's so such a perfect fit. And I
(25:50):
thank God because those are the individuals that I love
the minister to. Those are the individuals that I love
to be around. I can remember my wife used to
get so angry. She's like, why are you around all
these guys in gangs all the time. It's just a
bunch of gangsters around. But that's who I felt led
the minister to, and that's who God put me in
front of, and I'm thankful for it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
So West Point Baptist he went to.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
So I left West I said, you know what, I'm
not going to fight them any longer. Let me let
them have their church. I'm going to plan a church
at Dallas. One of the first things I remembered they
had a missions week. I didn't even know what missions was,
and so they had a missions week. And during missions week,
I went by this table and it was about church planning.
(26:41):
And I had never heard of church planning. I heard
the church splits, church fights, not church planning, and so
so I would read about church planning, study about church planning.
I was like, this is what I'm going to do.
I'm going to plan a church. But when I got
called the Mount Mariah and I got called the West Point,
I thought, you know, that's what I'm supposed to do.
Because at that time I never heard I didn't know
(27:04):
any black pastors who were planning churches. But then when
I had that experience at West Point, I was like,
you know what, I'm going to do what I learned
at Dallas. I'm going to plan a church and I'm
going to try it. So I followed the little steps.
I got me a little group together, called some of
my buddies who were in Chicago, said Hey, I'm going
(27:24):
to start a church. I talked about five people who
were at the church with me and secretly told them
what I was going to do. We started meeting as
a little small group, and before you knew it, the
little small group, we turned it into a church called
New Beginning's Church of Chicago. We started meeting in a school,
and I was able to go after those same people
(27:45):
that they didn't want in their church, and it instantly
started growing like crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I've always wondered how does a pastor feed his family
when he's planning a church, Because there's not a whole
lot of people given offerings, ties and everything else. Do
you starve when you're doing it?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Well, no, you starve a little bit. You don't have
as much money. So I did work. You know, I've
worked at the Athletic Athletes foot for like a year.
My wife was a teacher.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Was my question. So you're actually working, yeah, a job
while you're also building a church. So I mean it's
a taxing, it's hard work. It's an entrepreneurial endeavor. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And plus I've always been a good store, even when
I was passing the little bit church. I've always always
always saved money and I've been good financially. God blessed
me to to so you were able to at the
weather I budget it. Let me just say that I
know how to budget, and we knew how to sustain
(28:46):
ourselves and survive off a little. We didn't have a lot,
and we thank God for what we had, but we
didn't we didn't need a lot at that time.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Got it and so New Beginnings Church November two thousand
and the heart of one of the most dangerous neighborhoods
called Woodlawn. Yeah, tell me about Woodlawn.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
So Chicago is made up early history of the mobs,
the mafia. You got all the mafia people, but not
only mafia in Chicago. That's where a lot of gangs originated.
So the Woodline area on the south side of Chicago
is where all the gangs in Chicago started, specifically in
(29:32):
like six yeah, the sixties. In the sixties, the Woodline
area is where black gang started.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
So okay, and I was thinking, wise guys, you're saying
the black gangs.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, but before that, al Capone's home was in the
Woodlawn area.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So as those Italian brothers moved out and blacks moved
in in the sixties, Blacks in the late sixties, that
where gangs. A lot of gangs started right in Woodland.
The Black Pea Stones they started there, the Gangster Disciples,
the Black Disciples, all of those top gangs on the.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
South side of Chicago started in Woodlawn. And you blop
a church down.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, we said, okay, where's the roughest area in Chicago
on the south side, And everybody was like.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Woodlawn, Woodlawn, Woodline.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
And at that time I hadn't I wasn't real familiar
with Woodland, even though because I was in the Bronxbury area.
I knew a little bit about it, and we started
going visiting it, and I started telling people I wanted
to plan a church. I went and talked to the
aldermen in that area who's now a member of our
present church, and I told her I wanted to put
a church in her neighborhood. And she was really receptive,
and she showed me some buildings and none of them
(30:47):
really appealed. And then I met this gentleman. His name
was Herman Roberts. He was one of the first black
hotel owners in Chicago, and he had this place called
the Roberts Show Club and Lounge, and had this old
skating rink.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And the skating rink was horrible.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I mean by this time, by this time, this skating
rink was a dump, emptied. It had been empty for
like five years, and they were having I don't know
if you're familiar with it, but they were having what
they call rave parties. And so the white kids from
the suburbs would come with the black kids in Woodland
and they would have these rave parties at this abandoned building.
(31:23):
That's what this skating ron does. That work out wonder
it was. It was from what I hear, it was
a very crazy scene.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
So mister Robert would taking these buildings without people knowing
and just have like.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, they they just have a weekend parties. They do
them now they have, you know, warehouses in Chicago where
they have big parties and things like that, raves, pop
up raves, pop up parties. I don't know what they
call them now. But so that's what was going on.
That's what was going this place. Yes, and you buy.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
We bought it.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So everybody was like, didn't even have wire left in
it was.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
There was no plumbing, it was no wires. It was
it was.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
It was horrible, I mean horrible, but chee well, it
really wasn't real cheap. Mister Roberts was a uh you know,
he was he was different. So he made us pay
five hundred thousand dollars for the building and and the
and the property and uh but we had our church.
We had saved up that amount of money, so we
were able to acquire it and purchase it.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
But if it was a skating rink and bowling al
a type thing, it was probably a rather large.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Oh yeah, it was large. It was a large it's
for Chicago. It was a very large footprint, it had parking,
it had space. It's you know, fifty thousand square feet
in Chicago is a lot. And then they have some
some parking. That's even remarkable. So we were able to
get that building. And it was a mess, and we
(32:50):
we we we gutted the whole building. We volunteered, our
church volunteered, everybody volunteered. It took us months and many
many dumpsters to empty that whole building out. Then we started,
you know, trying to raise money to fix it up,
and we finally were able to convince even how we
convinced the bank to give us a loan was amazing,
(33:10):
But we finally convinced the bank to give us a loan,
and we fixed it up and now we thankfully we
paid that loan off and we're Jebt free.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
What was do you remember the date of the first
real live church service?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
So the first live worship service would have been two
thousand and seven. Wow, so yeah, two thousand, so we
started that's not that long. Oh no, So we started
our church in two thousand. Two thousand and seven, we
were in the skating ring. Yeah, we were, Yeah, we
were we were we were having a church in the
(33:43):
former skating ring Jesus.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It was called a Route six.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
The skating ring was called Route sixty six, and so
everybody was familiar with the skating rink and everybody was
amazed that we were able to turn it into a church.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Did people from the neighborhood start showing up?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
That's what happened, people, because everybody knew the building. People
really started coming just to see, you know, what did
they do with the skating rink? You know, out of curiosity.
And then once they came out of curiosity or invitation,
they really liked what we were doing. And we were
really focusing on trying to reach unchurched people, people who
had normally either been rejected by church, or turned off
(34:21):
by church, or just totally left church.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
That's the group that we were like you as a
kid didn't like Astris absolutely. And that concludes part one
of my conversation with Pastor Corey Brooks, and you do
not want to miss part two that's now available to
listen to. Its Corey's transformative work and Woodlawn is just
(34:44):
getting started. Together. Guys, we can change the country, and
it starts with you. I'll see in Part two,
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