Daily Review with Clay and Buck - Jun 15 2023

DeSantis is ready to rumble. The View disagrees with us. Daniel Penny indictment will create more chaos. Fifteen days to stop the spread was the wrong call.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Thursday edition of Clay and Buck kicks off right now
all across the country.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
Appreciate you being with us and got a lot to
talk about here. We are going to dive into the.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
Latest on the FBI investigation or was there even investigation
into the Biden criminal bribery scheme.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I think that's something that deserves a whole lot more
attention with godd and will also be talking to you
about where things stand in the primary race. You may
have heard Clay had a little interview yesterday with a
former vice president that is now all over I don't know,
CBS News, Fox News, Politico, all over the place. Clay

(00:49):
basically asking if he ordered the code red or in
this case, will you order a pardon? The answer was
no answer. Clay was not accepting that as anzer and
a lot of people still listening to that one and
seeing what some of the big dynamics are. We will, Clay,
We'll go back to it. Some folks can hear it
if you missed it yesterday. We have that all queued

(01:12):
up for later on in the program to discuss. Also
look at the latest arguments around the Trump indictment. Obviously, Clay,
did you see you know Bill Barr was on the
what is the six Brent Behar six pm show on
Fox News and laid out his laid out his rationale.

(01:33):
Here we'll get into some of this. Basically, what we've
been saying I think is accurate, which is that the
case here that the primary defense is one actually of
politics and not of law, even though this is a
criminal indictment. Because if you if you accept that everything
is legitimate from the DOJ side and that this isn't

(01:56):
a targeted political hit, instruction starts to become challenging. We'll
get we'll get into this a little bit later, but effectively,
other presidents were Democrats. They get the political pass on
process crimes, which is all we're talking about earlier process crimes.
We'll discuss some of that analysis later. Obviously, Trump not
getting a pass at all. And one thing to keep

(02:18):
in mind here is I can we just do a
check it on this one, Claid, I do check itads
all the time. Are they going to bring January sixth
related charge against him?

Speaker 5 (02:30):
I think they will. And the reason why I think
they will, Buck is I think they're gonna get nervous
really quickly. Given the judge that they have in Miami
and the jury pool, which let's just say is fifty
to fifty ish, they can now bring charges for January
sixth with a ninety five percent Democrat jury in DC.

(02:52):
And it almost feels like the safety net to me
for being able to get federal charges. I remember.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
So this reminds me a little bit of because you
have all these different criminal think about this, how many
criminal charges are they going to bring? How many different
trials are they going to have Trump going through in
an election year. I think it makes the case for
this being political not only stronger, but it is obvious.
The case that this is politicized is ironclad.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
It reminds me.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
I had a friend who worked in college admissions many
years ago, and he said, one of the things I
always look for is if you have to have a
super thick file of five additional letters of recommendation that
nobody wants, and you know, ten videos of yourself doing
things that you think, it's just if the goods are there.
The goods are there, you don't need to inundate. You
don't need to anyway, and that's what they're doing. This

(03:45):
is the count of countless counts against Trump. But put
that aside for a secon We'll come back to this
all a little bit later. I thought this was really interesting.
I would love to see more. And that's why a
total credit for Sean getting Gavin Newsom to sit down
with him.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
We need more of this.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
We need more people who disagree, who have platforms and audience.
So you and I are not going to put someone
with you know, fifty Twitter followers who hates us on
the air to say crazy things, but people that have
roughly equivalent audience and and sway for their side or
or you know, some degree of gravitas for their side

(04:24):
of the political equation to have the exchange and we
can see what do they really think about this? I mean,
I think that Gavin Newsom, well, you liked, you liked
Gavin personally, you think he's slick, which, okay.

Speaker 5 (04:37):
All right, appointed me how much I liked him. Buck.
I wanted to be like, I hate this guy, but
I was like, I wouldn't mind having a beer with
Gavin Newsom, and that that upsets me. I mean honestly,
but I thought he came off really well, and then
handed the interview I did.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
I mean, he just reminds me of like the guy
that you didn't want to trust your girlfriend around and
at the college partner.

Speaker 5 (04:54):
I'm not saying I'd want to bring my wife for
beers with him.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Uh, you know, he's just something real with them, really
smiley and underhanded about Gavin Newsom. But anyway, but he
basically took the perspective that some of this stuff that's
gone on in his state is indefensible. He kept saying
I own that, I own that, which is interesting because
what does that really mean, although it does work as
a deflection, But he was taking shots at Florida Governor

(05:21):
Rob de Santis of Florida.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
There's there are really two things about.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
DeSantis right now that are simultaneously happening. There's the twenty
twenty four presidential nomination contest, and he's in the very
clearly the number two slot right now in all the polls.
There really only are two candidates currently who have serious numbers.
Trump way out front DeSantis number two.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
We all know that.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Okay, that's a part of what's going on, and we'll
talk more about that in the months ahead. But there's
also the red state blue state dynamic, which plays into.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
The twenty twenty four election and is also for.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
A lot of people, I think where they see policy
and result.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
What did we decide? What has happened?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
How has California acted during COVID and during BLM and
all the rest, and how died Florida Governor DeSantis calling out, Yeah,
I havin Newsom here after the interview that Sean did
with Newsom.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
I want you to hear what he says.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
I mean, he's ready for it, He's ready to rumble,
play the clip.

Speaker 6 (06:20):
He's got huge problems in his state. I mean, like
huge problems in his state. We all know that. I mean,
you see it in San Francisco, you see it in
La you see it in the people fleeing California from
its inception, gain population every single year until he became governor.
And yet with all those problems, he has a real

(06:41):
serious fixation on the state of Florida. I mean, I
think it's just bizarre that.

Speaker 5 (06:45):
He does that.

Speaker 6 (06:46):
What I would tell him is, you know what, stop
pussy footing around. Are you gonna Are you gonna throw
your hat in the ring and challenge Joe? Are you
gonna get in and do it, or are you just
gonna sit on the sidelines and chirp Clay.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
I mean, he's first of all, he's basically saying that
Gavin Newsom has Florida envy.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, and that's a part of it.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
And he's also saying, if you're such a big man,
mister man of California, why don't you actually just say
I'm the guy, old man Biden. We all know what
has to step aside, I think we need to.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
Hear more of this props for use of the word
pussy footing, which we all know. You know, we all
know what the implication of the use of the word
pussy footing is. It ain't the second word that people
are going to focus on, all right, So that is
a phenomenal word to use to call out Gavin Newsom.
But buck this, to me, raises the question. I think

(07:40):
DeSantis raised it because he's talking about the Democrat Party.
We had Robert F. Kennedy on this show. I saw
where I believe Sean had Mary Anne Williamson on who
is the other Democrat that's running against Joe Biden.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
This is a story.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
I believe it was in Politico this morning that I
was reading, you know, getting ready for the show. They
are now saying that Biden, because of his commitment to
South Carolina being the first primary, may skip Iowa and
New Hampshire may not even campaign there. If you hear that,
that feels to me like a very big error strategically.

(08:18):
Why wouldn't Gavin Newsom step into this race? I feel
like Democrats collectively, now, maybe not the DNC and maybe
not the grand poobas of the party, but I feel
like Democrats as a collective group are begging for someone
to challenge Joe Biden. I think DeSantis. I mean sorry,
I think Newsom really, if he won Iowa and he

(08:41):
won New Hampshire, Fuck, I think he could get the
momentum to potentially beat I know you think this is crazy.
I think he could potentially beat Biden in the primary.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
I don't think you could be Biden the primary, but.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
I think anything, you know, by the same tone, gonna
feel like anything is possible.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
So you know, who really knows?

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Because but here's what I think the plan is for
the Democrats. We keep seeing all the polls and what's
the latest on you know, Biden's tool for the job
isn't like forty percent of Democrats want someone else or
something and seventy I think.

Speaker 5 (09:13):
It's over half of Democrats want somebody else to want
somebody on when they poll. That's Democrats, that's not the
Independence or Republicans.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
And as a reminder, Trump support when he was president
within the rope we're talking about now, within the party,
within the faithful, I mean it was you know, it
was Kim Jong ill level.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
It was like.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Me which obviously, yeah, that support is fake because he's
a dictator. But you guys got what I'm saying. I mean,
it's like the numbers were through the roof. It was
like ninety eight ninety nine percent level support within the party.
And and Joe Biden obviously doesn't have that here. Here's
what I think is going on. I think that the
plan here and it's maybe it's even implicit, but everybody

(09:51):
knows it. If you and I is this kind of
fun if you and I were Democrats strategist, just think
about that. Yeah, the way, just take a moment, Clay.
We get like book deals that are way beyond we're
ever going to sell, just because you know, people people
like us, because the machine we get invited, we get
invited on all these like you know, the like CBS
morning shows, and everyone's like, hey, man.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Like you're so great, You're so smart.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
You know, oh man, Hollywood, Hollywood people would be talking
to it.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Anyway. I'm just kidding. I would never want to do
such a thing.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
But if we were sitting there and we were Democrats,
we were strategizing this. I think the way that they
can they can rationalize Biden two point zero or the
second Biden term, is it's just about pushing him across
the finish line as the incumbent against let's say Trump,
because it looks like that's what's going to happen. And
then you have Kamala Harris. I think she takes over
summer of twenty twenty what is it, summer of twenty

(10:40):
twenty five.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
I don't think Joe Biden leed. You don't even think
that he's Joe Biden last year.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
I think he's so I think really he's just now
considered by Democrats the political vessel to bring about look
at narrative, first black female president in American history, and
that is what this is really all about for Democrats
that's okay. So if you believe that, and I don't
think that's a crazy idea at all. Right, if Biden

(11:07):
wins reelection, I think Nicky Haley said in our show
this week, and we've said it, I think he's a.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Very good chance.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
He's Nicky Haley, and I see this exactly the same
that it's really about Kamala Harris.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
It's really not about Joe Biden. Okay.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
So if you are hearing that and you are Gavin Newsom,
let's play the Democrat strategist game here, because I think
this is what's partly motivating Gavin Newsom to sit down
with Hannity. And by the way, have we reached out
Ali and production crew? Have we invited Gavin Newsom on
this program? I don't know that he would come on,

(11:39):
but let's it. Have we officially invited him? Not yet,
but we will, we will, we should, right But okay,
so if he comes on this program, I think that
would tell us a lot too. But the fact that
he's done Hannity already is a big deal. When we
come back, Buck come out and back in the next break.
I just want everybody to think about this. If you
are Gavin Newsom, and you see what may well happen,

(12:01):
which is basically, the baton gets passed to Kamala Harris
if she is running as the incumbent, you have no
chance to be the nominee in twenty eight, right, and
if somehow she won, you would have no chance to
be the nominee in thirty two, and then by thirty six,
like you're seventy some odd years old. The window if

(12:22):
Gavin Newsom wants to be president, in my opinion, is
right now before the baton can get passed to Kamala Harris.
I'll explain that a little bit more when we come back,
but I just want all of you thinking about this.
If you buy into the idea, and I think a
lot of us do, that Kamala would get elevated to
president during Joe Biden's term if you were to win

(12:44):
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Speaker 1 (14:06):
They're here to shed lights on the truth every day.
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
Welcome in our number two. Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.
I hope all of you are having fantastic Thursdays wherever
you may be. Encourage you to go subscribe to the
podcast search out Clay, Travis, starch Out Buck Sexton. Also
go download the iHeartRadio app. And you want to keep
up with all the goings ons associated with the show,

(14:32):
you can go to Clay Andbuck dot com and see
everything there. All right, So I want to open up
phone lines here in this hour eight hundred and two
eight two two eight eight two, And I think probably
for some of you out there who did not hear
all of the Mike Pence fireworks yesterday, we probably should

(14:53):
Buck at some point play that because our friends at
the View are even reacting to our show. Yeah, yesterday, I.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Think I think t it up. I think I think
play it now.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
A little reminder, I'm sitting here, I'm trying to I'm
trying to throw in the towel.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
I'm trying to invoke the mercy rules mercy we.

Speaker 5 (15:10):
Played before we play this. What was your head headspace
as the Mike Pence conversation got increasingly more and more contentious.
Did you feel like you needed to throw in it?
Like at what point did you start thinking, Oh, this
is a lot more tension than I expected.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Third, third round of the of the question, I was like,
oh boy, you know, follow up totally normal, got to
follow up, gotta press when you went to the third time,
and yeah, really, just for me, it felt like it's
that point in the mm A match where one guy
kind of goes a little limp and you know it's over,
and I'm uh, I'm that guy who has to throw
his body in the middle for a second there because

(15:48):
you know we're trying to trying to keep it are.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
For people out there, like again, I really was so
in disbelief that my Pence tried to go in this direction.
So let's play the audio so you guys can't hear it. Well,
play let's maybe the short version.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, the short version.

Speaker 5 (16:10):
And by the way, if you want to go here
the longer version, you can always go to clayanbuck dot com.
You can certainly go grab the podcast. But here is
the fireworks yesterday with former Vice President Mike Pence on
the show that has blown up and everybody's reacting to
all over the media landscape today. Here's what you missed
if you weren't listening yesterday, with all due respect, when
you aren't telling us what your decision would be, I

(16:31):
think you're dodging the question and frankly not stepping up
on the on the front of leadership, which in the
past you've been willing to do so to me, not
answering as a no.

Speaker 7 (16:42):
Well, look, number one, I don't think you know what
the president's defense is, do you? I mean, what are
the facts? I mean, look, we either believe in our
judicial process in this country or we don't. We either
stand by the rule of law we don't. I just
thought what I would tell you is, I think as someone.

Speaker 5 (17:01):
But what I'm hearing is you're find with Donald Trump
being put in prison, sir, and that to me, since
you were his vice president, feels pretty disrespectful.

Speaker 7 (17:09):
I had a standard rule. I don't talk about hypotheticals. Look,
we don't know what the president's defense here is. I
think he's entitled to make his defense, entitled to have
his day in court, and uh, look, let's you know,
let's take it one step at a time. But I
would just tell you that I I.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
But if you know that these are political charges and
you do, this is not a This is not a
difficult decision. I think we've made.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I think we've gotten I think we've gotten what we're
going to get here in terms of an answer to
this one.

Speaker 7 (17:37):
Yeah, I just think any I think any conclusion by anyone, right, right,
we can we.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
Can cut we can cut it off there, because he
keeps kind of dancing around the question. Well that was
the third Just to be clear, that was the third
time that that you pressed him on that on that question,
and I you know, I did ask.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Look, I think that here's here's something that that is.
I think that's what Pennce really believes because I think
he feels like Donald Trump betrayed him. I think that
he feels like Donald Trump left him high in and
can I just once I know you're fired up about this,
but just say that then that's the part of it.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Be like this guy left me.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I'm his VP, he left me high and dry, Because again, folks,
I'm I'm telling you what I believe the former Vice
president really thinks.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Here.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, you know, when he's talking about process or we
have to wait to see, you know, we know we
know what happened here. We also know I think that
on the pure if you're taking a legal is formalism.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
The right way to describe this, maybe.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
You know they actually is Yeah, I think that's accurate. Ye,
no law school necessary for this guy. He just googles
this stuff. But if you have a legal formalist approach
to this, I think everyone needs to understand. The obstruction
defense for Trump is he's in a lot of trouble
on that. On that if you're going to argue about
whether you know, if a court says you have to

(18:58):
return the following thing, there are actions you can take.
Not returning it is bad. Our point or the point
that I think everybody is trying to make about this
is yeah, but they're doing this to Trump. And even
Bill Barr when he was making the case about this
on Brett Bear Show, he was saying that there is
a double standard here, and for a lot of us,

(19:20):
we're just like, no, we're not gonna there is a
double standard.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Isn't enough.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
If a double standard means our guy goes down while
there guys and gal so to speak, go free, that
is unilateral political disarmament on process crimes here, which Bill
Clinton should have gone to prison for. If we're letter
of the law, Hillary Clinton should have gone to prison
for Joe Biden still should probably based on the latest

(19:46):
allegations and evidence that we're waiting to see here from
the FBI, certainly his son should go like, so, how
many of these times can we see one side gets
away with everything and our side gets jammed up on
the process crime? But even the Mueller pro what was
the mutherprobe really all about nailing people for process crimes?
Because there was no substance to it. I mean they

(20:07):
sent like, didn Papadopoulos get like two weeks in prison
for lying about what he had for breakfast?

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Effectively, it was garbage.

Speaker 5 (20:14):
If Mike Penns had said, I believe Donald Trump is
not worthy of being re elected as president, and I
think he should have to take his medicine if a
court convicts him. And I don't think it's my job
or any other Republican candidate's job to pardon him if
he's convicted. I would disagree, But that's at least an

(20:37):
answer when you're trying to kind of float here on
what his answer was. In particular, because his brand buck
is I'm the guy who's willing to make hard decisions
even if they're unpopular, because I'm willing to stand on
my beliefs and then you to me disrespect infect this

(21:00):
audience by not telling us what your position on this
actually is. Like, I just think I couldn't. I couldn't
let him not answer, and and that's why I just kept,
you know, going after him over the I think.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
A lot of people listening would feel like if if
they were my honestly, think about this, if you were
Mike Pence and you had gone through what he went
through from his perspective, put aside your politics or anything else,
I think you'd be really upset at Donald Trump, get
it and so and so. That's fine, I mean, you

(21:35):
know you could feel you certainly feel that way. But
if you're if you want to be the commander in
chief of the United States for four years, I think
you have to be willing to come out and say
what everyone knows you think. But you're not really willing
to do it because you want to sort of have
a little bit of both sides in the process.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
And what I would point to Buck here is remember
Ted Cruz. Nobody got savaged more by by Donald Trump
than Ted Cruz in the twenty sixteen primary. Not only
did Donald Trump go after him, he went after his dad,
he went after his wife. I mean, it was nasty.
And what did Ted Cruz do when Donald Trump got elected?
Ted Cruz could have been a whiny little brat who

(22:16):
was upset about how nasty the twenty sixteen campaign was. Instead,
to his credit, Ted Cruz manned up and he said,
this guy's the president. I'm going to bust my ass
to be the most effective Senator I can for the
state of Texas and my constituents, even if maybe my
feelings are hurt, and even maybe if I feel like

(22:36):
Donald Trump didn't treat me fairly to me. That's what
I wanted to hear from Mike Pince, like, look, I'm
mad at Trump. Be mad at him because of what
happened on January sixth and the way you think he
was treated. But being mad at someone and not standing
on principle is the opposite of what I want whoever
is in that behind that resolute desk to do.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
People can disagree with Bill Barr, for example, he's telling
you where he really stands on this stuff, like he's not.
He's saying, look, yeah, I work for the guy. I quit.
I disagreed with some of the stuff at the end
about the election. I defended him and he did and
I remember it very strenuously against the Mueller probe, which
is really why I think, you know, he was willing
to take the job in the first place.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
And he's like, this is where I am on this.
He's like Trump.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Bill Barr's point on this is he broke the law
and he brought it on himself. Now you can disagree
with that, but Bill Barr's coming out and saying it.
You can say that you think that that's you know,
terrible wrong, whatever, but he's saying, and I feel like
you're your problem. Yesterday with or the part that brought
out the ferociousness of Clay Travis for a moment, which
is not a very common sight, by the way, was

(23:43):
that he wasn't willing to tell us what he really
that Pence wasn't willing to say it. You know, that's
why we'll have Chris Christy and some of you. I
know we're going to get mad at us for even
having Chris Christy on the show. He's running for president.
He says what he thinks. He's willing to make the case.
Now we'll ask him questions if he says things we
disagree with it or think are unfair. We'll push back
on it. There'll probably be some fireworks and they'll probably

(24:04):
first of we're not well here. We're not going to
hide from this stuff because I actually don't. I don't
think it's good. I don't think it's good for Trump
or any of us, anyone who really believes in him
in the media, to just hide from all of the
arguments that are out there and create some some echo chamber.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
All of that said, the View, the ladies of have.

Speaker 5 (24:26):
You heard this? I have no idea what we're about
to play. This happened just in the last hour on
the View right. Have you heard this audio.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
At all time? I have not. I have not heard
the audio, but they did.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
They were speaking about us, talking about how wise and
handsome we are.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing that. They clear.

Speaker 8 (24:43):
Here.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Here is one of the co hosts of the View
play it.

Speaker 9 (24:47):
You can't miss in this that that's one of the
most listened to right right wing radio shows in the country.
And they're essentially making the argument in twenty twenty three,
the Year of Our Lord, that because you think DOJ
might be a little political, you throw out all the
crimes that are listed in this indictment, like, that's the
first side of the absurdity here, and that there's a
lot of people who actually believe that.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Can I just say every single Democrat nodding at that table,
every single Democrat in that audience and watching at home,
the live audience and watching at home went along with
the Oh, come on, Hillary's running for president. Let's forget
about the Espionagac statute in this case. It doesn't make
it's not big enough. We need to let the election

(25:27):
play out without exception. They all made that case, and
now they're gonna sit there.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Like, oh, but look, the law's the law, and they're
making this absurd case about the politicization of it. It's
not absurd.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
This goes to the very center of do we have
a justice system or not? If only one side bears
the consequences of the letter of the law, then we
do not have a justice system.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
We have a political persecution system.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
Amen. I agree with all of that. And the other
thing I would say, so did they play our audio?
I guess they played the audio, and then she I
appreciate whoever I think that's Alyssa Fara Griffin. If I'm
not mistaken. I think I recognize her voice. She's the
conservative on the view quotation marks there. I appreciate the fact.
I don't think she says she's in a conservative right.

(26:13):
I think she's, like, you know, a little of the
left of Paul Ryan. Would she describe herself as a conservative,
It's a great question. I don't know. But I appreciate
the fact that she told the view audience what is
the truth, which is this show has a massive audience. True,
A big part of that the legacy of Rush and
the honesty that he shared with you every single day.
But I like to think, as we come up on

(26:35):
the two year anniversary of us being in these chairs,
sitting behind these microphones, that a lot of you have
come to agree like you may not agree with us
on a day to day basis, but we're going to
tell the truth to you in a way that doesn't
exist very frequently in much of the rest of the media.
But I think that's the essence of this right. Pence
seems to believe that the Republican contingent out there is

(26:59):
of the opinion in that the justice system is fair.
He said, we either have rule of law or we
don't that's the problem. I don't think and I'm saying
this is a lawyer, I don't think we have a fair,
impartial justice system. And if we do not, then I
do not believe you can sit on the sideline and
just say, well, we got to just wait and see

(27:19):
how all this plays out. No, we have to take
up arms against metaphorically speaking, the absurdity of what is
going on right now with the weaponization of the justice
system against one particular political party, and to a large
extent one right now head of that party. But it's

(27:39):
not going to be just Trump. This is coming for everybody.
We've said the santusart bat trying to arrest him for kidnapping.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Which is completely insane. I would just note, and I think,
and I've heard this from people, and it's it's a
worthwhile point to make the same voices right now, the
same Democrat voices that are saying the law.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Is the law, we need the rule of law. And
Trump used to go to prison for one hundred years.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Are people who have you said to them, Okay, fine, fine,
you know what, We'll go along with this. You're right,
laws of law. Let's lock up a former president for
decades because he had some documents in a shower that
nobody saw that he thought were his because of his
interpretation of whatever, right, let's go along with that. I'm
glad we've established the law as the law. What are
we going to do with all the illegal immigrants in
this country in violation of federal law who are supposed

(28:23):
to be deported?

Speaker 3 (28:25):
And you know what they'll all do?

Speaker 10 (28:26):
All but more, a nation of immigrants and people with
ties to the commit federal law says they are subject
to deportation, all of them in the country illegally.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
What are we going to do about them? And all
of a sudden you'll get all these arguments.

Speaker 10 (28:40):
Human rights, basic decency, nation of immigrants, the statue of liberty.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
But hold on a second clay. I thought the law
was the law.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
It's a great point. The law has always been subject
to a great deal of discretion, and the discretion that
is being exercised right now is, in my opinion, indefensible.
And look, buck people are focusing on Vivek Ramaswami saying this.
I was before Vivek a month ago. People listened to

(29:11):
our interview with DeSantis. I asked this question, but I
came on and I said, I think every Republican running,
But long before this became a story, I said on
the show, every Republican running, as a matter of principle,
needs to say they will not let Donald Trump go
to prison. And I'm sticking to it. And I think
that is to me a lit must test issue for
me in terms of who I would vote for in

(29:33):
the primary. And I think a lot of our listeners
as well.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
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Speaker 1 (30:56):
The Torch of Truth past and still lit every day,
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
A Welcome on It everybody.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Third hour of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
kicks off right now, and we're gonna make sure we
give you any updates if there are already updates to
the legal arguments that have been discussed here on the
show around the Trump indictment, any new clips, new ideas,
because that's clearly dominating.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
A lot of what you're seeing online.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
But there's another legal story out there that I thought
we should spend some time on today, and it has
to do with Daniel Penny. So we know that Daniel Penny,
just just by way of review, he is the marine
who stepped in when Jordan Neely was threatening to kill

(31:46):
people on a subway train and he put him in
a choke hold. He was not the only person who
tried to restrain Jordan Neely because of what he was
threatening people on the subway with, but he put him
in a choke hold. They went for police as soon
as they could at the next station, and Neely subsequently died.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
And we're being.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Told that this is a case of vigilanteism and there's
a very clear political narratives that play here. Okay, well,
let's look at what actually we know at this point.
He has been indicted on manslaughter charges. He faces a
maximum of fifteen years in prison for that manslaughter charge

(32:30):
and also another charge for criminally negligent homicide, which carries
four years behind bars. Now just so everyone is up
with what the Democrats Clay here are claiming, because this
has become very part because, as you've said, he's a
white guy and the guy he killed is black. So
this is why this becomes a big national news story

(32:53):
because it fits into a false narrative if there's a
lot of white on black murder that occurs regularly in
this country because of all the white supremacisty, white supremacy
and racism and all the rest. CNN refers to and
runs full like big photos of Jordan Neely dressed as
Michael Jackson and refers to him as a street artist

(33:16):
who died from a chokehold on a subway, refers to
the morning at the funeral they'd present the most sympathetic
picture of this guy they possibly can. Meanwhile, Neely had
recently punched a woman in an elderly woman in the face,
shattered her nose in her eye socket, no reason, just
because Also it's believed that he threatened to push a

(33:40):
woman in front of a train, which is every New
York City subway rider's worst fear these days, because it
does occasionally happen, and it's horrific. It happened recently as
a woman on the Upper East Side of Manhattan thrown
in front of a subway train. She's now paralyzed. No
one talks about this, but they should because of what's
going on here, I mean Clay at a time when

(34:00):
cities are so violent and there's so much of a
rise in crime in the last few years that people
are leaving those cities because Democrats make the case that
you shouldn't really be too hard on criminals. For them
to go after this guy and have him face almost
twenty years in prison for this just seems to be

(34:21):
the worst kind of ideological Soros inspired rot when it
comes to criminal justice.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
I think of this also ties in really well, Buck
with what you talked about. As a longtime resident of
New York City, and I know we have a monster
audience in New York City, but also people who live
in all different sorts of cities all over America, and
when you're seeing your city's descend into lawlessness, there's this

(34:49):
question of what you should do. Right if you happen
to be like Neely is here, a relatively young and
healthy former marine, right, a guy who is able to
take care of himself, shouldn't you put yourself out there
in any way and try to protect people who are

(35:09):
not as able to take care of themselves as you are.
I think this is something in the back of every
guy who's out there listening to us right now, in
the back of your mind, especially if you're a guy
in your twenties, in your thirties, maybe in your forties,
you're still really in good physical condition. You're in better shape,
better able to take care of yourself than most people are.

(35:31):
And when you hear him, talk Buck and explain, as
we played on this program earlier this week, there were women, children,
people of all different races that he felt like this
guy was threatening and he felt obligated to try to
do something to protect people who were not able to
protect themselves. And I wonder to what extent when you

(35:53):
see the story to your point, Buck, they are right
now reducing charges on virtually everyone out out there who
commits actual, intentional acts of violence. How do you not
think to yourself, I'm not going to do anything. Remember
we played Buck, the dad and the mom and the kid,

(36:14):
and the guy on the subway is just threatening and
screaming at that family as they sit on the subway,
and you said to me, you're a dad, Clay, what
would you want to do in that situation? Well, in
that situation, I would want to protect my family, But
I would also think to myself, I'm a white guy.
This guy is black screaming at the family. He may

(36:37):
be armed, right, I might accelerate this situation by even
trying to protect my family in any way? And do
I feel comfortable that if a thirty second video was
taken of our interaction, then it would in any way
reflect positively on me because I'm a white guy, he's
a black guy, even though he would have started this
violence and be threatening wife and kid who are clearly

(36:59):
on a to protect themselves. I think a lot of
people just put their head down. I think there's people
all over the country right now who when they see
people that they think are engaging in threats of violence
or violent behavior in general. I think there's a lot
of men out there who are afraid of putting themselves
into the equation and they just drop their eyes and
hope they don't have eye contact made. When Alvin Brad

(37:22):
that we're here right now.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
When Alvin Brad came into office in January of twenty
twenty two. And look, it's a shame that New York
State residents weren't able to get it together enough and
put LESE. Helden in the governor's mansion. Instead, they have
Kathy Hochel, who is honestly a low IQ unethical disaster.

(37:46):
And no one even no one ever would have dreamed
that somebody so inact would become the governor of a
major state. I think, well, maybe not, there's a lot
of stupid governors these days. But nonetheless, here we are
looking at Bragg, and I would remind everybody that with
the Daniel Penny situation, he's going.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
For he's basically going for the juggular.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
I mean, fifteen years on one count, four on another,
twenty years, your life is basically over. I mean you're not,
you're you know, his most productive years are going to
be spent in a prison cell if he gets convicted
on this. Meanwhile, when Bragg came into office, Bragg, who
just you know, is he's a true social justice warrior
in that he also went to a sixty five thousand

(38:30):
dollars a year private school in Manhattan, so you know
he knows the struggle. But he said that fourth degree
stalking resisting arrest, obstructing government, prostitution, not paying for a
public transportation no le, you can have up to three
ounces of marijuana. None of that will be prosecuted, so

(38:51):
you can oh trespassing. So there's stalking charges, trespassing charges,
resisting arrest charges, obstructing government, which often is involved with
police trying to do their jobs, prostitution, lots and lots
of weed, which is still a federal crime.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
By the way, people forget that play.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
All of that not going to be prosecuted under brag administration.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Now, how are these things related.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
On the one hand, you have the Democrat mindset that
going soft on crime is inherently just, which is completely
insane because you just create a lot more victims. But
also these more minor things lead to an environment where
you have more Jordan Neelys, You have more people going
around terrorizing their fellow New Yorkers getting away with it.

(39:34):
The cops are demoralized, the prosecutor's hands are tied, and
everybody sick of it. And you know this is if
I could, I would if I could go and like
pick a place I would love to go on a
set of Mourning Joe or someone like Joe Scarborough who
lives in a mansion in Florida, you know, with his
second wife. If you were to do that, I would
want to be able to sit down and say to them,

(39:55):
you guys have private drivers, what do you think it's
like for people who ride the subway normally all the time?
And why do you think they should have to live
in constant fear of maniacs? Will all vote for Joe
Biden if they vote for anyone like I would really
want to push them on this, Yeah, because there's no defense.
There's no argument, honest argument of how Democrats approach this

(40:15):
stuff anymore. And it's really it's shameful that the Republicans
haven't been able to capitalize on this and take more
control on a in a whole range of places and
a whole range of offices.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
You want to play we come back on this next
break here in a second, let's play the Daniel Penny
because we have him right now. I think we've got
Daniel Penny right now, right the forty second clip of
him explaining what he was doing to do.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Okay, yeah, yeah, Daniel Penny, people, Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 11 (40:43):
You can see in the video there's a clear rise
and fall of his chest, indicating that he's breathing. I'm
trying to restrain him from him being able to carry
out the threats. And then some people say that this
was about race, which is absolutely ridiculous. I didn't see
a black man threatening passengers. I saw him man threatening passengers.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
A lot of whom were people of color.

Speaker 11 (41:05):
A man who helped restrain mister Neelie was a person
of color. A few days after the incident, I read
in the papers that a woman of color came out
and called me a hero.

Speaker 9 (41:15):
What.

Speaker 11 (41:16):
I don't believe that I'm a hero, but she was
one of those people that I was trying to protect.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
So this is something that people hear and they go,
I want Daniel Penny on my subway. Yep, like normal
people of all races, religions, colors, you name it, normal people,
everyday people. They all want Daniel Penny on their subway,
all of them. They might not all feel comfortable saying
that out loud, because you know they'll get made fun
of on MSNBC.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
For being racist. And they want someone like Daniel Penny.
They don't care if it's a white guy, a black guy,
Hispanic guy, an Asian guy.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
They want some male to be there to step in
or perhaps you know for some people listening there like, well,
I'd be that guy myself. But you know, when we
talked to even our friends off air about this, Clay
and you know, we talked to producer Ally Rise a
subway a lot on the show. She's a you know,
she's a woman, she's probably five six or so and

(42:11):
has to think about what do I do if a
maniac comes up and threatens me on the subway?

Speaker 3 (42:16):
How do I handle that? Because I'm on my own
now right, I don't know. I can't.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I can't think that a Daniel Penny's going to step
forward because people aren't going to risk fifteen or twenty
years in prison because Alvin Bragg is a racial Marxist, like,
they're not going to do that.

Speaker 5 (42:31):
I'm going to have two kids in New York City
with me next week, Buck, I'm going up to Cooperstown,
New York. People know this Little League tournament that I'm
driving over to New York City. You know, my wife
said to me last night, she said, whatever you do,
don't take the kids on the subway. We've been in
New York City before. We've taken the kids on the subway.

(42:51):
My wife said to me last night, do not take
the boys on the subway with you. Don't take the
kids on I never said it before. I bet there
are a ton of people New York City taking their
kids in. Maybe you're traveling up there during the summer,
taking a family vacation. Whatever, legitimately said to me, Promise
to me that you will not take them on the subway.
Take ubers, walk wherever you want to go. Don't get

(43:13):
on the subway with them.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
I mean, it's a very straightforward pathway to how we
got here, and it's taken a long time, but we
really reached this moment of with BLM two point zero.
It just got ratcheted up to a whole new level.
And because of George Floyd, you know that whole situation.
But they decided to empty out the asylums and then

(43:37):
empty out the prisons, and then stop enforcing the law.
And now they enforce laws against people who want to
defend themselves. When you see it on this continuum, put
the most extremely mentally, you know, compromise people possible out
in society. Tell them they can live on the streets,
Tell them they can do drugs out in the open.
Tell them they can urinate, defecate, throw things at people,

(43:59):
steal stores. Tell them this is normal. Now make this
a normal. See for all of major American cities in
Democrat controlled the enclaves, and then wonder why is it
that all these stores are closing? Why is it that
there are hundreds and hundreds of nine to one one
calls to single whole Foods in San Francisco. And you know,

(44:21):
part of the problem here is I think Clay, that
that the propaganda the Democrats are constantly subjected to around
criminal justice is so powerful that they don't think they
can embrace the reality of better policing, more serious criminal
justice system because they've been told that that's racist, so

(44:43):
that they can that's not an option, right. I think
this is part of what goes on. The Democrats claim
that the old way of doing policing, I mean the
way from you know, four or five years ago, racist
and you sit here and you say, well, they're not
going to accept being racist, So what do we have?

Speaker 3 (44:59):
More and more fai and that's what we see.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
I think that's underd percent right, and I would like
to be we talked earlier about Buck about the idea
of jury nullification. If you're on that Trump jury down
in South Florida, I hope that when this case involving
Daniel Penny eventually goes in front of a New York
City jury, I hope that there are some of our
listeners that are in that mix that could find themselves

(45:24):
there to be able to defend this guy who clearly
clearly is being wildly overcharged and should have never been
charged at all, and keep him out of prison.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
I think that why they're including that four year you know,
reckless homicide or involuntary manslaughter rather in voluntary manslaughter charge,
They're gonna they're gonna try to push on that.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
They include the big charge, which is outrageous of murder. Basically,
this guy went out and just murdered somebody, But they
include the lesser charge, right, so they can actually get
so second degree manslaughter is the big one. Criminally negligent
homicide is the four year charge. The idea here being,
oh well, we went for the we went for the

(46:10):
big charge. If we can't get that, we'll take the
four years for negligent homicide, right, And.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
The idea that the jury basically compromises.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
Oh, we're not going to hit him with the big one,
but we'll hit him with this mid tier one, and
that that way they'll still be able to trumpet this conviction.
And I think that at a very basic level, we're
talking about the broader political and criminal justice narratives. But
you know, and I remember my last year in New
York City a few different times, maniac's just yelling. I
didn't no interaction. Them just came up to me yelling

(46:40):
crazy stuff on the street. Yeah, it's stuff that I
could never repeat on the radio. And it just happens.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
But if someone comes up to you and says and
threatens to kill you, you are on the subway, I remember,
you can't go anywhere, you can't escape. Yeah, if someone
comes up to you and they're menacing other people and
you can see what's going on with that, and then
they say I'm going to kill you, I'm willing to
go to jail for it, you are obligated to sit there,
do nothing and hope they don't stab you with something,

(47:08):
because if you do anything.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Oh, he's a Michael Jackson impersonator.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
What do you mean, why would you ever you know,
I mean, this is not the society that any sane
person wants to live in. You're not allowed to threaten
to kill people. You're not allowed to do that. So
all right, it's a crazy, crazy situation where you continue
to follow it closely.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
You know.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
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And Buck twenty four to seven and subscribe today.

Speaker 5 (48:26):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Uh, did
you guys see Like I know that some people say, oh,
you know, COVID's over, It's ridiculous to even talk about
anything relating to COVID, But I wanted to make sure
that we talked about this and the fact that it
still isn't going away. Buck. There was a dispute lately.

(48:51):
I think we talked about this a little bit on
the on the air that basically the Biden administration refuses
to acknowledge that to you, year olds should never have
been wearing masks, right, that it was totally absurd that
they were ever required to wear masks like this is basic.
The most the most bare bones analysis would say, Buck,

(49:15):
that any two year old ever required to wear a
mask was a failure of American public policy.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
It was child abuse.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yes, And I think we popularized that phrase in response
to it on this show more than anyone else. We
said it here first. I stand by it one hundred percent.
And people who were you know, pushing for that and
actively almost enjoying the masking of their small children should
do a lot of soul searching for why they're incapable
of independent thought and reason and rational, rational approaches to things.

(49:47):
But it's kind of funny, is that we city we're
talking about shoul. Two year olds have been masked. Nobody
should have been masked. Correct Ever, they were wrong about
all of it. That's why they don't talk about it anymore. Everybody,
it was all stupid. Every person who.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Was like, mask up save lives is not as smart
as they thought.

Speaker 5 (50:07):
No doubt. However, Gerald Nadler, Congressman from New York, actually
went on the House floor.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Yesterday, Buck and Twinkie enthusiast. Yes, he was on the House.

Speaker 5 (50:19):
Yes, he went on the House floor yesterday, and he
said that it was child abuse if parents didn't insist
that their two year olds wore a mask. This is
not from July of twenty twenty. This is yesterday. These
people were wrong, and they need to be held responsible
for the biggest public policy failure of our life. And

(50:40):
they're still claiming they were right yesterday on the House floor.
Representative Gerald Nadler, Democrat from New York, Listen, it.

Speaker 8 (50:47):
Protects against transmission of the disease to the next person,
and the healthcare worker certainly ought to be required to
be vaccinated. And when we have a pandemic like COVID
nineteen that we had, two year olds should have been
required to wear a mask. It would be child abuse
for Paris not to do that because there was no

(51:08):
vaccination available for two year olds.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Do you think Buck that he is this dumb? How
is it possible three years later?

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I mean, I think Nadler is capable of both maximum
dishonesty and maximum stupidity. So it's really hard to separate
the two. You know which one is it more? Look,
everything he said there is so obviously wrong that it's
it's it's kind of hard to even wrap your head
around how somebody could be saying that at this point

(51:38):
in time. This is a member of you know, the
Democrats in Congress. And this is why I think this
matter is still. I know a lot of people are like,
move on from COVID. Why do you still I'm still
I am still angry about it. I'm not even just
and I know you are too. I am now you
suffered less from the madness than I had to, so

(51:58):
I I have more scars from the COVID lunacy. But
you and I both see it this way that what
they did was unforgivable, it was wrong, and they're gonna
do it again if they can everybody. I don't think
people have really processed that quite the way that they should.
There are already some efforts to put in place to

(52:18):
adjust pandemic planning to because one way they're going to
try to pretend like they got this right is to
change the old pandemic playbook to reflect what we did
this last time.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
So then going forward it's, oh, we know what to do.
We do what we did during COVID nineteen.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Which is the opposite, of course, of what it should
have been done. It should have Basically the people in
the beginning were like, we can't do anything about this.
You should just you know, do your best and try
to try to stay away from people if you're really,
you know, in bad health, otherwise let it rip.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
That was actually the truth, which people.

Speaker 5 (52:51):
Just weren't willing to hear at the time, and we
would have gotten through this way faster. Right. All we
did was prolong the uh disco for the nation while
changing virtually none of the outcome, And the fact that
This has still not been that. There still hasn't been
a reckoning. And look, Mike pens and Donald Trump got

(53:12):
everything wrong with COVID right March April May twenty twenty.
Fifteen days to stop the spread. Fifteen days to stop
the spread was one of the worst decisions that any
president has made in our lives. Now, I think Trump
got to the better place right. He then started to

(53:32):
fight to open the country back up. I think he
recognized that fifteen days to stop the spread didn't work.
But I still remember Buck, as I'm sure you do,
Mike Pence standing up there with that binder saying, Hey,
here's the story of what we're going to try to do.
I'm going to head the White House Task Force on
the Coronavirus, and this is going to require fifteen days

(53:52):
to stop the spread. Fifteen days to stop the spread
did nothing other than set in place the premise that
the country should shot down without any real opposition from anyone.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Remember what they did. They got compliance, and then they
changed the rationale. They did this over and over again,
fifteen days to slow the spread. They sold to people
like me who kept saying, okay, so in fifteen days
we all just get COVID, Like, what's the difference. He said, no, no, no,
it's about getting our hospitals ready. And then once they
got close to the end of the fifteen days, it
was we're not quite ready yet, Let's do another fifteen

(54:25):
and let's do another fifteen, and then it turned into essentially,
let's do a quasi lockdown. It was never even a
true lockdown until we have vaccines, and that then became
the unofficial but real policy of the federal government. And
I think this is also this is as things get
tighter here, this is going to be litigated more in

(54:46):
the Republican primary because there were mistakes made. There were
mistakes made by various candidates that they're going to point
out are pointed at, and we need to be very
clear on this. There are going to be people who
put Trump, particularly on the vaccine issue. I have to
go and see. There have been a lot of times
where Trump has said the vaccine saved everybody.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
That is not true, correct, So I think he's I
think he's changed on that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
You know, you just said recently, I think I was
on another radio show he said, you know, some of
the people I hired were really bad when he was president,
and I said, here I go. Whenever I said he
had some bad hires, I get people that email me
right away and say, why are you saying that Trump
only hires the best people? And I think I don't
know if they're serious or if they're just trolling me.
I'm like, Trump says he hired bad people, like not

(55:34):
all of them, but some of them. And I think
Trump has started to say on the vaccines that they weren't.
I have to go back and see what the latest
is from, but I think he's I think he has
moved his position a little bit on the vaccines because
I think he sees RFK Junior getting a lot of
traction from a lot of Trump voters on the vaccine component.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
I think this is also the advantage of being on
the road, because I think Trump's best political gift is
he can intuit the mood of a nation and he
can into it the mood of a nation by to
a large extent being out on the road and seeing
what people respond to, almost like a great comic would, right,
why does the stand up comic refine and get his

(56:18):
performance art down to a science? Because he recognizes if
he tweaks the punchline just a little bit. The laughs
are way better, and a politician, ultimately, you're in the
business of building the biggest possible audience to support the
things that you support. And I think Trump has been
a little bit surprised when he's out on the road

(56:38):
because of the reaction and how vociferously negative it is
associated with the COVID shots in general. Remember it wasn't
very long ago he was bringing up the CEO of
Johnson and Johnson, if I remember correctly, onto the stage
to brag about the success of the COVID shot and
then everybody booed. And I think he's kind of started

(56:59):
to recognize his credit. He was never in favor of mandates,
but I think he's starting to focus now more on
I never mandated them, as opposed to they're the greatest
human creation of all time.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
It was Trump base that bood that time you're talking about, Yes,
it was too soon to be three time Trump voters.
I think he listens to them. I think he understands
when they're speaking to him. You know, this is like
family talk at the dinner table. You gotta hear them out.
So on the vaccines, we're going to see a shit.

(57:31):
He's already started to shift. As you said, he's focused
on no mandates from him. But I think you'll see
with some of the other candidates. Will be interesting how
COVID plays out, because, as I COVID was the ultimate
test of a leader in America, for in any state,
at any place, at the federal level, COVID was you know,
it was like hell week and buds or whatever. It

(57:52):
was like can you make it through this? And what
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Speaker 1 (59:06):
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