David Rutherford Show: “22 Minutes Without Air” – World Record Holder Stig Severinsen on the True Limits of Human Performance | Ep. 86 - The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
How long can you hold your breath? How far can
you run? How long can you push yourself until your
body fails? Today on the David Rutherford Show, I have
multiple Guinness Book World record Holder, multiple World Champion free diver,
longest breathold, mister Stig Severnson, Sir, thank you so.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Much for joining me today on the David Rutherfordgs. Thank
you for having me on the show. I'm excited. Well,
it's funny.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I was trying to think back to win Morton and
Rebecca first introduced you to me, just like told me
about you, and I think it was probably around I
want to say, two thousand and fifteen or sixteen, and
I looked you up and I was like, oh my god,
I know who that guy is, right, because I know

(01:02):
you had worked with the Seal Teams before and you've
done a lot of work with other elite competitors. And
but it wasn't until I really like went into the
World Championships and your records where I was like, oh
my god, this guy's had a whole nother And then
for me, obviously a twenty two minute breath hold, the
first human being to ever do that. It you for

(01:27):
me because I've pushed my body to is you know,
the limits are close to my limits in hell week
in combat, like the appreciation I have for what that
means and what it takes to get there, Like it
I remember, just like in AWE, like mouth open, you know,

(01:47):
catch and flies with it. Tell me what I think
a lot of people and what I've always tried to
do with my show is to really help the audience
figure out the sequence that gets a human being to
a place where the idea or the ambition it's not

(02:10):
too far out of reach, where it becomes, oh, I
this is attainable and I'm going to go for it.
So introduce everybody to how that process transpired for you.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Okay, hello everyone, Thank you for taking the time listening
or watching the show. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean,
and it's always it should be, I guess, a fun
endeavor and of course a tough journey at times, but
it really has just been a natural evolution for me.

(02:43):
That sounds easy, of course to say, but I've always
been very fond of water. I did competitive swimming, So that's.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
You're a four time national champion at nine?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, I was very young. I got into swimming I
was picked for something called the talent team when I
was five. Wow, And from then on it was just competitions.
You can say, I grew up in Denmark. I'm Danish
with a Swedish mom, but you know, Scandinavian. And I
would say, so everybody, that means he's a Viking. Yes,
so you know he's Viking, so like, yeah, Viking bod Also,

(03:19):
I would say, a quite normal upbringing. That's kind of
my point, you know, you know, growing up with my parents,
and I was fortunate. We had a nice swimming pool
in my backyard. We also had a boat we could
kind of live on and stay on. So very privileged
in that sense. But but but that's why my parents
wanted me to be a good swimmer, because we had
the pool and we had the boat, you know, and
it's quite cold and Denmark even though, you know, so

(03:41):
they were like, if this kid falls over bored, you know,
we had our safety gear and stuff. But they wanted
me to be able to take care of myself. And
I have a brother who's two years younger than I am,
and so and we were nice little boys and pretty adventurous,
I guess, but you know, they had a great level
of trust in us, but they thought it was good
we could take care of Yeah, So that's how that

(04:01):
safety element came in. So my mother took me baby swimming,
and she had been a swim teacher herself in her
younger years, and everything around water just made sense to me.
I'm a piscis for those of your looking sticks up
on Wikipedia or CHATTVT or whatever. So I'm a Pissi's
you know. I'm born eighties of March uh and nineteen
seventy three. So I just always loved water and the

(04:26):
freedom and water and and and I'm a biologist. So
my background is that that I studied biology. And we
can get more into my studies my PhD in medicine
and so forth, but I was always a biologist, if
that makes sense. One hundred people listening can late right,
You're always something like you're or many people maybe not everyone,
but but many or most people feel there is something

(04:48):
like that's me. I love cars, Yeah, I can't get
enough for me. Cars.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
For me, I've always felt connected to art. Yeah, for me,
it's not cars.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
So that's my brother and my father. Interestingly enough, but
I was nature. There is not like the amount of time.
I was just in Dominica. We can get back to
that as well for some interesting training, but I was
just down there in the Caribbean and I can just
sit and watch. Also here in Florida, you have these
little lizards. They're called false chameleons, and all these Carolynensis

(05:20):
is the Latin name, so like from Carolina the anol,
and you have them in every tree. Maybe you don't
even know so much about lizards or herpetology, but that
is like my big I was almost going to say fetish,
that's my big passion. And I'm so fascinated by these
living dinosaurs, right, crocodiles, turtles like that, they haven't changed
for millions of years, millions of millions of years literally,

(05:41):
And the little one, you know, the females, he's smaller
and tiny and cute, and and they're kind of brown
when they were cold, and then when they get excited
or heat up, they turn green. That that's the name
the false chameleon. And they have this kind of brown
gray kind of kind of like long right along the back,
but it can turn really bright and white. And then

(06:03):
the males are bigger and they do kind of push
ups when they want to impress the females like we
all do. Right, look how strong I am? And then
they can they have this red sack under kind of
like a frog, but this is a lizard and they
dilated with air kind of like a breathing acts interesting
and it turns red. So it's like, look how strong
I am? And I can, you know, present myself in

(06:25):
this elegant manner. And down in the Caribbean. Now I
could just sit during breakfast and watch and watch and
there's not and there's no end to how much I
could sit and watch these skies. So that's just to
tell you how nerdy and geeky I am. Right. I
don't know if it's nerdy and geeky. I think it's
well in that specific field.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, But for me, it's like there's a point in
your childhood where you get connected to something, yeah, and
you don't you don't lose your you're not distracted.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Right.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
A lot of children their attention span is much smaller than.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Everybody changing from any recent social media and all this,
I guess for sure. But for me, it was this
instant connection with nature before I could even put words
on it. And I loved everything about everything with animals,
their behavior, the way they developed. I would, you know,
find dead animals or catch them, have them in aquariums.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Here the kid who comes home and you've got you know,
I I was like, you know, the Natural Museum in
London History Museum was like go home.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
You know. I really had the big museum at home.
I didn't have so many toys, not that I didn't have,
and I had good childhood, but I had no interest
in those technical things, and like Lego, even though it's
from Denmark. You know. I had some Lego, but not much.
I really had a lot of animals everywhere, so I
was interested in finding out how many bones are in them.
You know, when the owls throw up the mice because

(07:49):
they can't digest every part of the mice, especially you
a guy in the forest, and you know, we know
this stuff, but maybe people in the city they're not aware.
But the owls will puke this stuff almost like a
fur ball, like the cat is doing. And I would
go and find all this and I would dissect it
and find all the different bones from the mouse. Wow.
And then I would kind of put the skeleton and

(08:11):
have them in little boxes and I have them still Anyways,
enough about that, But I was always connected to nature.
So my point is that I was a biologist before
it became one. Now I have a master's degree in
marine biology, neurophysiology, YadA, YadA, YadA. I was teaching at
university for many years. But neurophysiology, yeah, that was my
sociology and marine marine biology. Anything else, no, that was

(08:35):
kind of that was it in biology. But then I
went into into health science. That's why I finished my
PhD in medicine. But it's just it was just who
I was and I've always stuck with that. So I
think what I was saying that it was a natural
progression was just I loved animals and nature. I could
never get enough of it. I loved to study dinosaurs
and shocks and read books and all the cats, everything

(08:58):
understanding how they react. And also that's why behavior is interesting,
like the psychology behind it and the different survival mechanisms
of changing color, hiding, mid try, looking dangerous, looking poisonous,
you know, the colors and eyes. So anyways, I was
fascinated by that. And then my other fascination as a
child was was sports, so movement, so kind of maybe

(09:22):
looking at all these mice and looking at all these
bones and jaws like, okay, so how's the body working?
And so I was fascinated by you can say, anatomy
and in physiology. And then of course when I grew
older and studied more. Also i lived in Spain, I
studied human anatomy and got more and more into kind
of what does it take to grow stronger and perform

(09:46):
at your highest level. And then the last layer, of
course is psychology. So behavior habits, good and bad habits.
You can talk much more about that. We can talk
about it all day. But you know, how do how
do you identify bad or maybe not always bad habits,
but things you do every day, things that people do

(10:08):
because of society or just because they're not so aware
of it. But it turns into it's like stacking on
the good things. It also adds up to being not good.
It's maybe not a bad habit in itself, but the
outcome is not productive. Yeah, it makes sense. It makes
a lot of sense, right, So if you change identify
those that's one of my all the nerdy hobbies, whether
I work with navy seals or athletes or sea level executives,

(10:30):
you know, identifying those things that are easy to change.
So you're still doing something like brushing your teeth for example.
You know, so a dentist would tell you you're brushing it
way too hard or your gums are bleeding. Right, just
a silly example. So why don't you just turn the
tooth brought forty five degree angle genderly, massauce it and
spend half a minute more and don't push so hard.

(10:52):
So that is a habit that's good. You're cleaning your teeth,
but you're doing it in the wrong way, but you're
not aware of it, so the conscious level is not there.
And then an expert tea do it this way to
do it that way. So then you do it that way.
It doesn't take longer. You still have to do it,
but it becomes what I call it good habit, and
that stacks up to a lot of positivity for dental hygiene.
You're breathing the air that comes in your lungs, the

(11:15):
microfloor in your mouth, and so forth, and so forth
and so forth.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Okay, so there's a point where the natural environment the
need to move they kind of synergize together. You start
then swimming and so as as you begin to get
because it sounds like you got good fast Yeah. Right,

(11:39):
you had a natural predisposition, you were naturally strong, good
fast twitched fibers, you had, you understood training, you were focused,
you could pay attention to technique, and that's remarkable for
young kids.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
That's the hardest thing when you train kids is the
focus on technique, patterning right, making sure the execution of
the angle with with your hand goes in right, all
of those things.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
But you somehow had that. Yeah, well, I had good trainers.
I'm still connected with my trainer. He's of course an
older gentleman docs doormag, and I write wonderful things on
his Facebook, like I'm so thank Like when I said
a world record or something like, and people write, oh,
you're great, this is incredible. I'm like, oh, I would
post like thank you so much for being an inspiration

(12:23):
and for really handling us kids, you know, in a
in a in a really kind way and tough way,
but you know kind of uh you know, stern, but
but but loving, and so I always remember to pay
respect to to those people. Also, when I played underwater rugby,
a game that's not so well known here in the States,
but it's like a kind of psycho game.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's one of the best sports in the world by
the way it's holding your breath.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
I mean for Navy seals and stuff, they should do
it more. We did throw it to Peter or something
we did well, which we call it underwater hockey. No,
underwater hockey is something else. That's what the pock and
the stick, right, but with that as well, yeah, you
call it hockey.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
We we started with we'd have some kind of like
like it was almost like a shuffle board, so we'd
use that, put the poles on the bottom, and then
it just became the torpedo.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Just jelly, guys. What underwater rugby is is like that.
But it's a ball and it's filled with a saltwater,
a sugar so just dense water. It sinks one meter
a second, which translates to three feet, so it has
this density and you can kind of throw it like
hurl it like that, and then it's kind of like
in a room like this, you know, but it's in

(13:30):
fifteen feet of water in the deep end of the pool,
and you have a basic schnarkle equipment on, so flippers,
a mask with a lot of belcro like military stuff
stripped fast because it's like a UFC fight, right, and
you have your protector and your mouthguard and then there
are basically no rules and of course this is done
on breathold and you're just going but cirque. So I

(13:52):
guess that's why we love it in Scandinavia. If iking
crazy stuff, you know. So I played that for eleven
years in the lead series and then foious in the
national team, and I played also in Spain when I
lived there underwater hockey. So but that is excellent training
for CO two resistance and for elactic acid tolerance high
lactic acid, and for clearance, like to really.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Get I want to get into that when we talk
about the theology.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, we didn't get back to that. But anyways, those
were things that just happened naturally, right, So I six
sacked a little bit here and there, but it was
always driven by passion and interest, right. So so for
me it has been when I look back, a natural
path and then I did martial arts also in my youth,
so that layered that psychology slash, the connection of the
bridge to the Eastern philosophy that I then didn't come

(14:37):
much much more back to that with breathing and everything,
but that kind of fostered that foundational understanding of you
can say, the Eastern philosophy of connectedness between the body
and the mind and the spirit. That Decat kind of
chopped off the head literally a few hundred years ago,
when it was like the divine and the church and

(14:57):
then the body and the mind to differ two separate
entities like not connected. And that is why modern medicine
is still kind of not working really well. My brother's
a doctor, I have a PhD In medicine, my sister's
and nurse. It's not that I don't know. I have
greatest respect for surgeons and advanced technologies, but the way
it's looking at, for example, veterans or treatment or or

(15:18):
just perform or prevention is really flawed because of this
two hundred year old paradigm where the mind and the
body are separate. So if you have something wrong in
your arm or your knee is like maybe it stems
from something else, or maybe you're not eating right or
maybe so it's not the root cause they're looking at,
and it's I think modern science without being too cruel,

(15:40):
you know, it's very myopic for sure, very myopic, thank God,
or thankfully. It's it's it's becoming broader. There is an
open interest and I think also after COVID and all
this kind of weird nonsense craziness happening, people are and
with the AI and and online in search of information,

(16:01):
you can be like your own doctor. It can be
your own fitness coach, and you can ask critical questions
and find answers that maybe maybe the government or somebody
else pharmaceuticals companies would not maybe give you those answers
for very good reasons. Right now, it's a big thing
in the world right now, So all of these things
now are opening up, so doctors and scientists, the military

(16:25):
as well. I can feel you know, in those last
ten to fifteen years that I focused more on C
level executives, business coaching and like the Navy, Seals, the Danish,
the Royal Navy, the Air Force as well. Royal Air
Force also trained the fighter pilots here, the F thirty
five pilot fighter pilots because we're shifting from the sixteen

(16:48):
fighting Falcon to the F thirty five, so and getting
all that to Scandinavian Europe for the new alliance. So
I was training them out in it's very cool in
the base here, So there's an openness even in the
military to take in new information and look at the
old historic ways of doing things.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Do you think that you're the connection to nature, the
connection to water. For me, I've always had a connection
to water too, growing up here in Boca on the beach,
since I was a baby, right in the water, growing up, surfing, diving, snorkeling, Like,
there's just there's there's some there's an emotion, there's a fluidity,

(17:29):
a fluidity, there's a power that extends, there's a connectivity
the currents, and then as soon as you go under
the water, it's like, oh wow, this is a whole world.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
It's a different world, a different universe almost. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
And those things mixed with this competitive spirit, right is
do you think that was obviously a great foundation for
you to move on to higher education, higher competitiveness, But
what was the catalyst to where you're like, oh, my
competitive spirit is not just going to maintain at this point.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, I want to be the best. I get it.
I know exactly what you what you're fishing for. No,
but so let's just say it was an actual path
for me and I picked you know, things by passion, yep.
And I was good at what I did. And when
you're good at something, it's fun, and when it's fun,
you become good at it. It's like a positive cycle. Right. Yeah.

(18:27):
And ever since a kid, besides of nature, I loved
holding my breath, and I just found out when I
was very young in our pool that I could hold
my breath quite long. And we would have this game
where I threw in little plastic animals because I loved animals.
So I had like a million different things in plastic
and these rubber animals, right, I had like hundreds of them,

(18:48):
loved them.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Dinosaurs shot everything. It was my my g I Joe Man.
You know we do quarters or pennies.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, same thing. So we would have like baskets and
we would like collect two as we baskets on one breathold,
and I would do it with my brother who's two
years younger, like I mentioned, and then we would do
it with our neighbor, who interestingly enough, totally out of context,
but went on to become a Special Forces wow operator, Yeah,
special special Forces. So yeah, I worked with the Danish

(19:18):
random right, So we little three boys, little children had
this little club free diving club. And we use something
that people watching to they probably don't know what is.
Some of the older generation will know, but it was
called a typewriter and and and the kids are like,
what the hell is this? But with your fingers you
would type on kind of a machine with some little
little dials and then a little steel thing would spring

(19:41):
up and there would be a letter on a paper.
And it sounds like I'm joking, but I'm actually not,
because many people don't know what a typewriter is, but
that is how you're typing on your phone. You would
have little arms coming up and everything would be a letter.
And if you type wrong, you had to put some
white paper and click again and then make it kind
of wide and then hit the right key and the
ink would be in the paper. So we did little
cars because my dad was a businessman. He had this machine.

(20:01):
So we did like little James Bond card. We laminated them.
We were like super proud, we have a little club.
Oh wow, we're in the business cards just for ourselves,
you know about like FX agent something. Because it was
the time of James Bond Ian Flemings, you know, great
in the in the mid seventies or early eighties, Roger

(20:21):
Moore and all that stuff. It was like some of
the first movies. So anyways, back to your question, your
very good question. So I loved holding my breath and
I found out it was very natural and that stillness
when you're good in the ocean. And then because I
loved to hold my breath, I found out I could
explore even more. So every summer there was another lucky

(20:42):
piece of the puzzle. That was my parents always went
to the Mediterranean. Yeah, because Denmark, even though it's beautiful
and cool in the summer, it's nice, but we don't
have so much sun because we have winter and spring
and autumn long and dark and rainy and cold. So
most or many Europeans, not than Scandinavian people go to
the Mediterranean, Spain, Italy, Yugoslavia as it was called beautiful

(21:05):
area that time, still is, of course, but we would
go there for two three weeks, so my brother and
I would just venture out and go and we got
spear guns and little knives and we felt so proud.
So the more I could hold my breath, the more
I could explore. So that was driving me. And you
know today I'm a member of the Explorers Club, and
it led to a lot of other things. So it
was always a natural process. But then to your question,

(21:27):
how do you go from that to that? It happened,
I would say from the childhood. But then two things happened,
two or three things like milestone. So one was that
I moved to Spain. I studied that university to there,
I studied human physiology, but that was just kind of whatever.
And I learned Spanish, which has been a great gift

(21:47):
ever since a Latin language. Right, you can speak Portuguese, Italian, French, whatever,
it's all kind of the same core. But besides of that,
I got into spearfishing more and then we started free
diving because I lived in Barcelona on the coast, and
maybe on the side of that, I should say I
actually grew up in Florida Pensacola Beach, so I had
the kind of the same issue with graduating high school surfing.

(22:10):
Living on the beach in Pensacola beats on that beautiful
snow white beach, and I would surf every day, dolphins, stingrays, everything, so,
you know, just beautiful and having that connection and getting strong.
And we had a lappool as well, so I would swim, swim,
swim there, so I was in pretty good shape at
that time, and having physical education area as well, which

(22:30):
I think is great in the American system that you
actually moved the body and had had training every day.
So when I moved to Spain, I picked up a
magazine to learn Spanish. So this is how random it is.
I'd been there for a few weeks. I was at
something called American British College. I paid myself to learn.
Sorry for kicking you, yes, I learned. You know. I

(22:52):
wanted to learn a little bit Spanish. So I saw
this colorful magazine called apnea, which in Spanish means breath
holding in English as well, but it's a Greek word,
not breathing or no air, so like sleep, apnea it
means without air, without breathing. So I picked up this magazine, colorful, beautiful,
right next to that kind of college where I paid
and went myself to learn some Spanish before I got

(23:13):
admitted to the university to study for a year. I
didn't even know Spanish. Because I'm a little bit silly.
I'm like, oh, I'm going to go to Spain. Well
I don't and I don't eve mean I'm even so dumb.
But this is before chat GBT and we had these typewriter, remember,
and so I didn't know that in Barcelona they spoke Catalan.
Catalan is not Spanish, no, it's different, and so you know,

(23:36):
so I had to learn two languages. And then there
were the because of all the things that had happened
in the seventies and all the kind of dictatorship and
all those things, it was not allowed to speak their language.
So the older generation, which were the smart people and
the educated people, were teachers now again and because of
Franco and all that with the dictatorship, they were so

(23:57):
upset that they had had this long period where they
could not have, you know, the freedom to speak their
own language and live their culture and historical you know, heritage.
So they were very I wouldn't say snobbish, but very
adamant about only speaking Cattalan at the university when they
were teaching. Okay, so I had to just learn. I
was like back paddling and writing out of that. I
didn't know if it was Spanish or cattle, and I

(24:19):
just wrote it down. But I anyways, I picked up
this magazine and now maybe it begins to get a
little bit interesting. And I saw this like World Championship
in Sardinia, and this is in nineteen ninety eight, ninety nine,
exactly nineteen ninety eight. I picked up this magazine and
I stayed there for one year. So it had been
the summer championship in nineteen ninety eight in Sardinia, small

(24:42):
island and near Italy or part of Italy. And I
looked at the times and the depth and I was like,
I could be in the mix. That was my first
I think I've never told anyone. They just are like
I could do that. Yeah. But I was like, so
maybe that is the.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
First lifetime a lifetime and it's not arrogance, right, It's
like in reach ye, so I get your question.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
So we have to explain to people like how it happens.
So I was like, okay, So I got curious. So
then I started training more and more on land. By
the way, never hold your breath alone underwater, because you
can use consciousness and black out and drown. Not dangerous
if somebody's there to fish you out, but if you alone,
then you know. We unfortunately lose a lot of people
every year, especially training for the military, because they push themselves. Well,

(25:32):
I mean I can't even tell you. Yeah, it's sad.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's fifty meter underwater swims. Yeah, we would do, you know,
not tying even combat swimmer.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Some of the drills. I mean it was almost.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Every every evolution, which could be three to four hours,
somebody's getting yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
And nothing happens. You're not getting brain damage, nothing happens.
But if there's not anyone to pull you out and
you do it alone or in the evening after swim
drills or you know, the coach is gone, and especially
young men, they are like invincible, I'm superman, you know,
and they pushed themselves. They really want to get into
the you know, military or maybe the Navy, Seals or
special forces. So please don't do that. It's very important.

(26:12):
I lost my best friend the you know, twenty twelve,
and I'm still like very moved by it. But I'm
also using it as a good fuel for safety. And
I did the safety for the World World Championships many
years ago, and I really got into that world and
I'm kind of adopted into the family. Alex had two brothers,

(26:35):
so they're like my brother. They called me super Brother, Superstick,
super Brother, and super Little brother because they're older than
me a few years. And then his mother, I'm like,
that's also like an extra mother to me. And I'm
like a part of Alex as we were like spiritual brothers.
So so we lost him in twenty twelve, August sixth
so so, and he was very cautious and apologist and

(26:58):
smart and marine bologists the teachers, so it can happen
to even the best, bast of the best. Yeah, he
actually went to retrieve a finn a lady had lost.
He was also a scuba diver instructure, and he was like, yeah,
just go out and get it. And that's the number
one rule, never dive alone. And whether it was the
current or too many repetitive dives, or he was exhausted
from a long day, we don't know. They didn't find

(27:18):
him until the next day that they did recover the body.
So we had a memorial here in twenty twenty two
and threw pellets in the water and went down and
scuba divories and freed iris down and let these pellets
go from roset pellets and they were floating in the
cataline collars so yellow and red and white and discovering

(27:42):
the water. And yeah, I can get all emotional, but
it was like a kind of Gray's day in Spain,
northern Spain. And for that hour and a half when
the water he drowned near a rock and the sky
just opened. Yeah, crazy, all gray and dark and like
kind of like like like a little bit uneasy energy

(28:04):
in that hole just opened and we had light in
the sun just for an hour and a half. When
we sailed back and it started raining. Beautiful, crazy somebody crazy,
somebody was and he was really spiritual and like angelic
energy already on, you know, when he lived this life.
So so he went to the next. So I have
him with him in my heart and a lot of
stuff I do. So we trained and then what.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Happened met him when you started?

Speaker 2 (28:28):
No, we became good best friends. So you so we
trained together in Spain. How did you find where? No? Really? Yeah,
because they had a great diving club. So I played
underwater hockey, and that's how I got into the national team,
and we played in ninety nine in the Europe and Germany.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Already on the on the edge of this whole world.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Well, I had already played on the water rugby in
the national team for many years, so it was an
easy fit to go into underwater hockey. And then so
so I picked up this magazine. That's step number one.
I grew up in Florida maybe and all the swimming,
but then the set second thing was that I played
on the water rugby and I was getting better and better.
I went to the national championship. So I was on
the what we call the elite series for many, many years.

(29:09):
I think eleven eleven years or so, but four or
five years I played on the national team. But I
was not so big, and I was fast and strong
and explosive, and I could hold my breath. But you know,
you're still there's a limit to it because you have
so high levels of co two Oh my god, and
that's what's driving your breathing reflex. So you know, even
though you think you're superman, you got to get up
and breathe. So but I was not like the body.

(29:31):
I was not so big. There were like some huge guys,
and so I had a trainer who was not a
brilliant trainer, but he was okay. He was a nice guy. So,
but he was not like a super talented train He
was a national coach. It's also often in these small sports.
It's just kind of the guy who picks it. He
does it like he's the He is yeah, yeah, like
I love this. Let's build the way with Tony. Nice guy.

(29:52):
But he told me in two thousand and three, because
we had the in two thousand and two we had
the World Championship. We had the Nordic Championship two thousand
and two and I went to norwayen. It was really
interesting representing Denmark. Wow, all these big guys. And then
in two thousand and three we had the World Championship
in Denmark and underwater rugby near my hometown. Wow. I

(30:13):
was like, wow, imagine if I could represent Denmark and
this could be and maybe I could select it. Maybe
not I played on the national team, but we also
have reserved. Maybe I was not picked as the first draft. Right.
And he said to me, stee because I had already
started training them in yoga, breathing, underwater swimming, the national
team swimmers that were much bigger and stronger than me.
But they started listening already then, and he said, you know, see,

(30:36):
you had this special gift. You're a You're an okay player.
You know you're a good player, but you're not great,
and you don't have the body for it. You're not
big enough, you're not explosive enough, and you know these
are like two hundred and fifty pounds, like like just
true vikings, true true, You're like just the next a
notch below.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, that's the way I feel about the guys that
sealed Team six, Like I'm just a knock below.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Right, you know. And he's said, you know you have
this special gifts to you should give it your best everything,
give it all your attention, because you're kind of riding
two horses. And I was because I started free diving
in ninety eight ninety nine in like the breath Old
training in Spain. And what also happened in Spain was
at that time, since I was at the at the study,
you know, I was studying biology and human physiology and anatomy.

(31:22):
We also started doing a lot of tests. So I
had my heart scan, I did a seven minute breath
hold in an MR scan. It would draw b loot
samples at the same time, because it wasn't so strict
at that time. Yeah, we were like just little guinea pigs.
And I continued then when I came back home to
Denmark and finished my PhD in medicine, so at that time,
it wasn't like a big deal with waivers and all

(31:43):
that stuff. You just went into the lab called the
professor or your friends, and you started measuring stuff, right, yes,
kind of like biohacking today. The way the way science
should be, the original way of being the guinea pigs.
So so you know, then I trained, and I got
selected for the day national team in a few years before.

(32:03):
I had been selected for the national team in two
thousand for the first World Cup in free diving in Nice,
and I got selected and I was great, and then
I started setting Danish records and then some naughtic records
fifty six meters I remember in a lakeland in a quarry,
dog and cold and all.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
But that is actually that was your question. The first
like record you went for was in that quarry.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, well it was. It was different records, and not
to make it too complex and stuff, but I did
Danish records. So now you ask me, so how does
it become natural? You know, I saw this magazine in
the year of ninety eight. Then I trained ninety nine,
Then in two thousand I got selected. Then two thousand
and one and two I was still playing underwater rugby,
so I was in superb shape, you know, and I

(32:48):
was thirty years old. Yeah right, I'm born in seventy three,
so peak peak, you know, aged, peak body, everything, really
well trained in great cadio and very interested. Then point
in breath work and and yoga, and I went to
India and I found a teacher, or rather a master
found me in Spain from Argentina, like an Argentinian breath

(33:09):
master yoga master, and he initiated me and I got
my my mantra and I got my special secret like initiation.
So by random chances, I connected all this. And then
in two thousand and three, I kind of gave up
on the dream of joining the national team. And based

(33:31):
on what your off you, so I went all in
on the free diving because it's difficult to do both
three diving and underwater rugby, because underwater rugby is the
best training. It's it's it's it's been chosen like the
most crazy mad sport several times in a row, like
the most extreme of all extream sports. And it's fun
and it's wild, but of course it's so high. It's

(33:53):
so high energy and adrenaline and high tempo that it
does not fit very well into the stillness and the
it's a free diving, so it's a great trainer and
it's a great precursor, but to do it simultaneously it's
not work.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
It's not it's a different consciousness that you're opposite.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
And so for the training and preparation perfect. So I
stopped that, I skipped the team, and the next year,
within six months, I beat three world records. Whoaoa, whoa whoa.
So in less than a year. Well, I had prepared
from two thousand and two thousand and one and two okay,
and I had an attempt that equal the world record

(34:33):
that was then not recognized, and that pissed me off.
It should have been. I took blood samples and urine
samples and everything because I know doctors and stuff, but
it wasn't recognized, and it pissed me off. So then
you know, you go to work. And then I trained
even harder for that one year from two thousand and
two to three, and it's that specific record. Well for well,
for there were three records. One was swimming in a pool.

(34:55):
That was my first world record. So it's always like
your first love, right, I'm a swimmer naturally, so breast,
oak and medley, which is the four disciplines, mixed and butterfly.
Those were my disciplines. But I was strongest in breaststroke.
That's like my body.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Type or your breaststroke, like watching your videos, it's like
it's it's absolute poetry.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
I don't know those things.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Your your just your body cemetery, your hydrodynamic.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Like the way you stretch out. Thank you. I mean
it's so like I was a tank and water. You're
very kind, you're very beautiful. But I love it, you know,
and for me it has to be like a ballet.
You have to present, you have to you know, show
the grace and and and that you truly love it,
and you know, it was just a natural discipline for me.
So I chose the record for longest swimm in a

(35:42):
pool because in Denmark were also we are surrounded by water,
but it's cold and quite shallow, so we do a
lot of pool training. So I went for the discipline
of the longest swim and I beat the world record
by yeah, by like a length, it doesn't matter how much.
And then a few months after I was the first
to pass two hundred feet in in depth. I did
that in Venezuela in in National Park there in fins Caribbeans,

(36:07):
no fins, So instead of swimming in a pool, I
went deep, no fins. So it was the first to
break the two hundred feet barrier sixty one in the
metric system. And what did you have a suit on?
I had a wetsuit, but I didn't have to. I
could have gone without and I trained also without it sometimes,
so okay, yeah, but just like you sit there, I'm

(36:27):
so like the wet.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Suit isn't a piece of the component, Like there isn't
a no.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
It depends on the temperature. And if it's in a
salt or freshwater lake or cold or whatever, you're you're
you're you prefer There are also people that put the
wet suit on the pool because then they can put
more weight on because they have boining suits, right, and
they can and when they have more weight on, they
have more momentum in the glide. But now we're really
down geeking and nerding. But the Navy seals that train

(36:55):
them so they can optimize their movement and their glide
and stealth and all that. So but anyway, ways, it's
it's too many.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Details, and what people love to hear are the details.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
But then I said, those three records, and I was
also the first the same year to break two hundred meters,
which is another like we like these numbers, right, yeah,
for so in whole.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Metrics, right, in all performance, it's magic, yes, album so,
but it's it. But that's the component I think of
that competitive spirit. It's not necessarily I'm competing against this
other person, although that's in there. And if you can,
I love if you could, we could end with the

(37:33):
story of what you do.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
You did this past week with your.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Friend, and but like that spirit, right, you're competing, You're
competing against that depth, you're competing against the water, You're
competing and then mostly competing against yourself.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
But to wrap up on your great question that it's
like twenty minutes gone, like, so, what were the pieces
of the puzzle? You know, natural background, growing up finding
this magazine, thinking I might be able to be in
the mix. You know, that's the first thing, you know,
seeing you can do it visualizes an imagery believing in yourself,
not being cocky but kind of relating to it. Yes,

(38:13):
And and it was like, ah, that's made made you
know for me that discipline, that's that's great. And and
uh and the breastrope, you know, you have to adapt it.
When you dive deep, it's not the same as on
the surface because the air and pressure, and but you
adapt it. It's you know, nerdy fun excuse me. And
then then I did some national records and then the

(38:37):
Nordic record, and then comes the point then you are like, well,
maybe I should go for a world record, right, And
that is where you start to segregate or take the
next step, both mentally the way you train, the way
you approach things, and the way you stack things in
your training and get more and more in but maybe
in a smarter way you often will I did, and

(39:00):
what most people with success to you reach out for
the best people in the field, right. So I reached
out for a guy that I knew from the underwater
rugby team who was the goalkeeper and he's like a
phenomenal athlete. We're still great friends this day, Bo Jacobs,
and he's been like the best trainer of Denmark. Like
I don't even know ten times swimming, but he was
a four times world champion in finn swimming. Like this

(39:21):
dolphin swimming, extremely fit, you know, like six page four
you know, and just strong legs and just a machine.
His sister who was born same year as I was,
and I swam with her competitively when we were younger.
She's still to this day the most winning swimmer of
all times of Denmark Meta Jacobs, and so people in

(39:41):
swimming will know he's kind of an icon in swimming.
She's been in four Olympics or maybe five, one of
the few athletes to be in more than I think
Torahs are the only ones that ever did five. R Yeah,
well she did four or five or maybe she was
going to the fifth. But anyways, it's quite remarkable. One
is incredible. So yeah, it's career is a long career.
So anyways, I trained with Bo and I trained with

(40:04):
another guy called Alex Denmark. Uh. Funnily enough, his name
is the same as Denmark. It's not like a joke
or some name he took. Hey, that is his real surname.
So he was a junior world champion as well in
his finn swimming. So I look for the best people
to help me and train me and and and teach
me the styles and techniques. Where do you get these

(40:26):
mono fins from Russia, from you know, Novo Si Beer's
glag in the middle of nowhere. I guess it's like
you guys like sourcing material and everywhere the weapons, and
is like you got to get the best from this, this,
that that, So you really go nerdy and all that,
and then I think this this next evolution in your mind,
You're like, okay, I'll go for the world record. And
then at that point it is not a competition against

(40:48):
the other athletes, and that is the fun part. It
is really well, it's it's it's like you said, it's
it's it's a it's a dance with nature or with
your physiology or mind. But it's a competition again and yourself.
It's like your shadow, right, and you always want to
become better, and you always, you know, find out how
it can adjust things and fine tune things. And that

(41:11):
is the kind of the same nerdy passion I have
for those reptiles. You know, you look at them, what
do they do? What is the outcome? How do they
change strategy or color or like what about the you know,
temperature around the eggs and what does that mean for
the the young ones and the survival and the like.
It's like there's no end to how fun it is

(41:33):
in these things. And when it's psychology and big goals
or your personal dreams and maybe team dreams if you're
you know, having people around you, and then technique and
understanding physiology, biology, neurophysiology, anatomy, and then working with the
best scientists as well. So I would do different breathing

(41:53):
exercises and different drills, and then we would measure the
outcome on the blood, on the brain, on the lungs
on this. I love it took all that stuff injected.
Let's just say one thing, just because you're in this world,
and I guess people are quite interested in extreme things.
You know here as well, scientists injected radioactive isotopes into

(42:15):
my bloodstream right to follow it and trace it into
my brain when I was doing seven minute plus breath
holes in a scanner and they would have all these
measurements at the same time and see how the oxygen
was consumed and where and where at which rate in
the brain. Oh my god, that's cool. So now you
just totally really Frankenstein, talk the physiology of what you did.

(42:40):
Let's talk about what makes the body capable Your your
deepest you ever went was two hundred meters two hundred feet. Wait,
deeper than that, but that was the honestest that. There
are many different disciplines, so I can explain it quickly.
You either hold your breath for a long time. It's
called static because you're a static you're not moving. And

(43:01):
we can also go back to that. But that's where
I was in the two Yeah, but I was the
first person on this planet to pass the twenty minute mode.
And again we have these and I think you know,
whether it's feed or a metrics system. As humans, we're
kind of done more. We're kind of I don't know.
It's like with money, you want to make a million dollars,
why not nine hundred and fifty eight thousand. Isn't that enough?
Like I buy a car, No, it has to be

(43:23):
a million. And we have the same you know numbers
for whatever reason, Well don't they represent I.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Mean it's just like, well I go through, I go
through you know, three years, four years of training, and
I've done all the training to be a seal, but
I'm not a seal until I get my tried in
right or you do all this training, you do the dogs,
but You're not a world champion until you're a world champion, right,

(43:51):
and so these are these benchmarks are required I think
as a as a core motivator.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, you're right. I'm like a little bit like flippant
about it, are joking about it. But it is kind
of silly that we have these kods completely so we
see this and it can be good a good driver,
but also dangerous, you know, for reasons. It's like. But
but anyways, so so it changed a little bit from
doing normal records, I would say, so static is the

(44:17):
breath holding. When I say the twenty minutes I did
twenty minutes ten second as the first human on this
planet and in an official attempt that was a world
record and recognized by Guinness. And everything I did in
a shark tank. You can see this video is available
on YouTube on YouTube everything on the pathology channel there.
But but I did it in a shark tank because

(44:39):
as you can tell, you know, despite being fifty plus,
I'm very childish still, and I don't mind. I'm very
curious and very you know, open minded, and I knew
that it's damn boring to watch someone hold their breath
for twenty minutes, like there's no cut it sharks. Yeah,
that's the entertainer. Are they gonna get him? Because they

(45:02):
were down in this tank like they have like tubes
and you can go under like in these aquariums and like,
and I was like, great, these kids can watch me,
you know. And it was a phenomenal success for that
aquarium and they love this event. So I did twenty
minutes ten seconds in twenty ten to make it memorable
and again numbers and to make it geeky, but also
to make it like my oddwork. So it was not

(45:23):
twenty minutes and eleven seconds. It was not twenty minutes
at nine I programmed myself and I was at the
edge there it was like the end of it.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Well, you saw your body kind of reacting.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
So I did it as twenty ten, like the number,
to make it easy for the journalists to remember, and
it was April first, to make it like unbelievable, like yeah,
of course a guy held his breath for twenty minutes
and a shock tank. Sure, But then I did yeah,
and that's that's like, dude, I love that ass.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
So have a playfulness in it as well too.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Well that's when I started. Before it was more World records,
and so static is the breath holding. But it's important
to explain to people this is a Guinness World record
where you pre oxygen eate. Okay, so you are allowed
to breathe oxygen, pure oxygen. Everybody has seen them at
the swimming pool. You have this orange tank and like
a plastic thing and if people need it, they can

(46:13):
put pure oxygen. Or you see it at hospitals with
older people or patients. Right, if you really need to breathe,
get a lot of area and some oxygen, especially then
you put on this mask and flush, you know, extra oxygen.
We have only twenty one percent oxygen in the air
around US twenty point nine to be exact.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
So what is the breathing of the oxygen?

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, so saturates your lungs, It saturates your blood, your
insistitial fluids to be even more nerdy, which just means
the water in your body and between your cells. So
you have this liquid in your body. People know we're
mostly made of water, right, like almost seventy So we

(46:53):
have all this fluid and you can have more oxygen
in that because oxygen dissolves in liquid. So it's just
it's not the same as people at home trying to
hold the breath of two three minutes. That's different. But
then the static, then you have dynamic, which is moving
and in the swimming pool. And then you have the
depth disciplines, and that various disciplines like pulling down the
lines called free immersion, or going on the slit called

(47:17):
no limits. And you have a variable weight where you
go in the slit, but you have to swim up.
That's why it's called variable. So it's varied. You go down,
but you come up yourself. And then I think the
disciplines that I started on when I beat the vim
Huffrek back in twenty ten. And by the way, I got.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
An opportunity to interview whim back when I did a
podcast with Marcus Sotrell called The Team Never Quit and
what a character first and off. But he has the
same vibrancy about nature that you do. And I really
think and hopefully we'll move in as we talk about
breathology is the beauty that breathing gives us, the power

(47:56):
of it and the strength. And he was the first
person I had ever met like we had talked about breathing.
We had a free diving champion come in and work
with us. When I was first on the teams, and
so it was like but it was more like a
functional thing. But he was the first one to really encapsulate, Hey,
this is a therapy, this is this is something, this

(48:17):
is the essence of our existence. And I was like,
he's talking like you know, and he's kind of a
wild guy.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Made it very like accessible and with the type and
people started taking cold showers. And but again being a
swimmer and breaststroke I speaking of again random things, you know,
I saw on YouTube. Vim Huff was absolutely not known
in two thousand at all. Big Bear looks like a troll,
big shorts like this a wild man, you know. And

(48:44):
I just saw that clip on YouTube, and mind you,
this is twenty ten. I don't even know when YouTube came.
It was just a few years before. And so I
saw this random clip and I'm like, again, ah, I
can probably beat that, very coud love it because I'm
a breaststroke swimmer. It's my discipline. I love holding my breath.
Like I mentioned, I didn't get too much into it.
But as a child, we had all these games, right,

(49:06):
and then we had the same in swimming where we
have shago and goldfish, so there's one goldfish and the
others of sharks, and then you have to swim from
one end to the other and the sharks have to
catch you. And I was often the little goldfish, so
everybody else got caught. But the last guy standing or
woman standing is a goldfish, so I was often the
last one and everybody, you know, goldfish turns to a
shock when they catch you. That was my favorite game.

(49:29):
We played it once a year at Christmas because it
was pretty serious training right at the at the lead series,
like the competitive you know, when I did swimming, it
was not just like fun and games. But at Christmas
we could play this, so all that stuck with me.
And underwater rugby was just an extension of this game,
right just with the ball and ball and balls. I

(49:50):
would say, you know, like a lot of muscle. But
it was the same game chasing, holding your breath, being tactical, sneaky, fun,
kind of theatrical. It was just the same. So I
just had this snack of holding my breath and I
had an ability to relax, and that is what I
today called relax on demand. I kind of coined this concept,
but so I saw this record in twenty ten, so

(50:12):
maybe even more interestingly to talk about the mental skills.
On sixth of March, two days before my birthday, I
did the Guineas World record of the longest dive under eyes. Randomly,
we had an ice winter in Denmark. We don't have
that always. Finland and Sweden have more ice. It's colder
closer to Siberia North Pole. Right, Denmark is more like Germany, Holland.

(50:33):
It's not so cold. It's wet and it's dark, but
it's not like super cold. It's more like New York. Right,
It's not snowy, snowy, snowy, it's more wet and cold.
So but in this ice winter twenty ten, we had
three months of sub zero so I was like, this
is brilliant. I can train and I'd seen this video
on YouTube, and I can train under ice and have

(50:53):
the security and divers and train, and I did. In Scandinavia,
we do a lot of like skinny dipping or going
the eyes and make a hole and jump in and
then we go in the sauna. It's very famous from
Finland Finish sauna. So Russia while jumping in the river
is going in the sauna, rolling in the snow, so
blood vessels dilate in the warm sauna. Then you go
in the cold water. So it's a phenomenal cardiovascular training.

(51:16):
That's why people are never sick. The immune system gets boosted.
And that was all this bim Huff talked about, this
immune system and the eyes, and that's why also a
lot of older people, like senior citizens, it's it's a
super cure for them or at least to stay fit
to go in the water, because the cardiovascular system is
what declines with age like many others bone density and muscle,

(51:37):
muscle strength and so forth, it declines and use it
or lose it. Right, So water and cold water especially
give you this kind of extra superpower. And that's what
bim Huff was so good at getting out to the world.
But then I beat that record and it was six
of March, and I used that record, and I'm serious
about this. I used it as a mental tool to

(51:59):
see how tough I could get in the cold water,
swimming longer and longer distances with stand the pain when
the muscle fatigue sets in the diaphragm's pumping and punishing
you and like screaming for air like breathe. You're dying.
You need to breathe now and overrule that and stay
calm under pressure. And you know, lactic acid going through

(52:20):
the roofs, dropping through the floor, and just why do
go lackic acid explode and why does your pH bounce collapse? Well,
because you can't breathe. You're not breathing, but you're working.
So the mitochondria, your metabolism is just an overdrive. But
you can't breathe out and you can exchange the air
so you don't get the CO two out on fresh
oxygen in. And when you don't have oxygen, you go

(52:42):
past VO two max and you start creating lactic acid
as a last reserve of energy. It doesn't last long,
but it gives you a little extra push. So you
have to be very tolerant of lactic acid. And the
more you train it, the more you can clear it.
So the clearance rate becomes better, your organs become uptimized,
and then we move in yoga and all this and that,
and well, on April first, I did that that twenty

(53:08):
minute ten guineess world record, but six of March, which
was like you know, a month before or three weeks
before I did that ice record, and it really was
a training to become mentally strong enough to not breathe
for twenty minutes. So I used that cold water and
that type of training and that unpleasantness to I don't

(53:29):
care about sharks. That was like a gimmick. They were big,
but yeah, they don't need humans. They eat fish, that's right.
But so that wasn't like to be a superman of
being like, oh I'm cool, not at all. It was
more for the kids, you know, for the show and
for that aquarum to promote their aquarium and stuff like that.
But it was a great training for me mentally to be,

(53:49):
you know, strengthening my mind and becoming tough you can say,
flexible and kind to yourself, but still during tough not
to breathe for twenty minutes, because it is a provocation,
you know, to kind of explain to yourself. I think
I can be the first out of seven billion people
on this planet not to breathe for more than twenty minutes.
It is a long time not to have movement in

(54:11):
your body.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Well, and that's the other thing, like, I mean, what
I love is when you really discuss that parasympathetic and
sympathetic nervous system. So in that circumstance, you're literally almost
putting yourself into paralysis, correct, right, And then your body
you're slowing your heart rate down as slow as you
can get, so the transfer of oxygen into hemoglobin is

(54:35):
at the lowest rate it could be, and you're almost
in a catatonic state.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
I would imagine that's what I could meditation underwater. I
caught that many years ago, and it is. You can
say catatonic. You're like, you're shutting everything down. Yeah, your digestion.
Of course, you don't eat before you have fasting before.
You don't want blood in your guts. You don't want
to digest food when you're trying to use that oxygen
to keep your brain alive and stay you know, conscious.

(55:01):
How long did you have fast for? Well, it's up
to you, but I guess fasted from the day before.
But you change your diet if you go more, and
you know, it's a long story to diet. That's a
whole nother podcast. But then we can learn about that.
I love you know when I help coach athletes and stuff.
But there are lots of things you can do, like
spinach or greens or broccoli, and things that naturally have

(55:23):
a lot of nitrogen on precursors for nitrogen oxide on nitrigoxide,
as you say in the US n O. That is
that is produced in your mucous member and your nose,
and your nose breathing you inhale it naturally into your lungs,
and they are vasodilators. It's not even like fifteen years
ago the Nobel Price was given to three researchers Nobel

(55:45):
Price of the discovery of the first time they found
that a gas molecule could act as a signaling, you know,
between different things in your body. So you produce it somewhere,
but it has a signaling effect and and it's a vasodilator,
so it relaxes the smooth muscle, so it opens the
blood vessels in the alvio line the lungs and you

(56:06):
take up more oxygen. Wow. And on top of that
it's anti viral, anti fungal, and antibacterial. The nitrogen the
nitrogen oxide. It like a poison. But of course you
produce it because nature is magical, uh and divine. It
produces it at the right level of toxicity or the

(56:27):
right level of concentration that can kill these germs and
things but doesn't harm you. So mouth breathing is absolutely
a NOGO for for many other reasons. Also now when
we talk about prevention and staying healthy and performing at
the highest level, all right, so you need foods that
help you with those things as well.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Okay, So as you are moving forward your you're you're
just like knocking these things down. Oh, I'm going to
try that. That looks I'm gonna try. It's a it's
an intuitive, intuitive, direct motivation to pursue these things, getting
better and better at training.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
And everything becomes a project, right, you go on a mission, right,
it's always a new project, like who can I find,
Who can I reach out to, can help me with that?
Which diet should I shift? What should I try? And
the great thing about free diving is it's so like
the payoff is so it's so direct, like you just
measure two things distance or seconds, nothing else. And that

(57:26):
is maybe one of the biggest breakthroughs or biggest insights
I've had of doing this training. And then my great
interest in yoga and timeless wisdom you can say meditation
or you know, oriental wisdom is that you have this
connection with breathing, and breathing is life, you know. It
takes in the air and then the oxygen produces energy
in the mitochondria and the red blood cells or the

(57:47):
hemoglobin carries those four little oxygen molecules like a car,
you know, like a little vehicle. There are four points
of connection with the oxygen molecules and it's distributed to
every single cell. Thirty trillion cells. Everyone of them needs
oxygen to produce energy. In the mitochondria, they're just little
energy factories like batteries. They're called mitochondria mitochondria on in singular,

(58:12):
but mitochondria a little energy machine, and the same you
see in plants. In the green plants, it's just a
photosynthesis is the same. It's just running a little bit differently.
But the sunshines and they have water. But then they
use our oxygen, but they use our CO two compond
oxide and they produce oxygen. Yeah, so it's called a
symbiotic relationship. Why we need plants and feel good in

(58:34):
nature and especially in the forest.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
So, but anyways, then you you kind of nerd into
all that and then what I found, which is is.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
It's interesting that you talk about the problem set like
it's a it's a problem, it's a mission that you
come together and find the solutions.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
By H. Colt, Well, I just challenge. I just challenge,
not a problem. I don't think I said the problem
a challenge. Yeah, problems.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
I just interviewed this guy that set the new record
for the Appalachian Trail unassisted one direction. He did it
in forty five days, eight hours, in like twelve minutes,
beat the one by few hours, right, and he it
was that's the way he described it, like each section
was a new problem, each training part was a problem,

(59:25):
his diet, what he was going to do, you know.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
And I just really like I hear that you break
it down then it becomes doable. But anyways, with all
these insights, I was like, okay, with the free diving
and with the with the relaxation techniques and slowing down
the hard and yeah, I called meditation underwater. But it's
really just like fine tuning. It's like a radio station

(59:48):
in our brain. We have different brain frequencies. We have
our thoughts, but they're called like alp adults and Gama beta.
There are different frequencies exactly like same as radio it's
a frequency, it's a vibration. A frequency is just a hurts.
And then you can learn to tune into these different
radio stations. And I call meditation underwater because I go

(01:00:10):
into this flow state and we can talk much more
about I mean highly to send me highlight. Was so
honored to get to know him, the father of modern psychology,
who also founded positive psychology with Martin Seligman and a
few others. But he coined the term flow, and he
looked at athletes and artists that go into this nerdy
sona flow and don't eat for days and don't know

(01:00:30):
if it's nither or day because they're so and trends
and just absorbed into that. So you become the you
merge with the action. So what you do, you become
what you do. And that's a beautiful place to be
because it's perfect and there is no time. So one
of the greatest indicators of flow is there's no notion
of time. Right, like a great conversation that can be flow,

(01:00:52):
or you're doing some sport, or you're very focused on
painting something or getting the right tone or the right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Shade, or the way I always describe it to is
that seems like most people who aren't in this level
of performances when you're driving and you're just kind of
and you feel good and then you just like forget
how far you've gone, you pass you get yeah, yeah,
that's that seems to be the most common state for people,
right yeah, but for athletes and for performers or whatever

(01:01:18):
it is that I think it's I like to coin
a phrase called a focused obsession right where, because that
it unlocks the the ultimate attention to the smallest detail
that you're creating.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Yeah, And at the same time, that's where you can
have slow motion like pass and everything passes by and
like rock climbate, grip and you're just so focused on
that so there's no yesterday tomorrow. And that is one
of the greatest things I found with breathing and breath work,
that it is here and now it's your life force.
And the way you breathe is the way you feel.
So it is really the emotional state. And maybe the

(01:01:58):
greatest breakthrough I had or like that came from me,
is like, Okay, with breathing, we have the greatest tools
to control our mind. Because if the mind was easy
to control, we had no people with depression. We had
no suicides, we had no anger, no fear, no war.
Would just say everything's okay, I'm doing great. But the
brain or the mind is not a very good thing

(01:02:18):
to use or a smart strategy to control your mind.
Obviously we just look around, right, But that is kind
of the secret they found in yoga and meditation and
mindfulness that when you use a special breathing ratio or
breathing pattern, then that becomes the focus point, the attention point.
Maybe not at the level we're talking about, yeah, but

(01:02:40):
it can be, but it can be right of some
of the higher levels of meditation, you have one focus
point but with that same frequency.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I remember there was that I don't know if you
ever saw that had a beautiful study Northwestern did. It's
like one hundred and fifty some monks from Tibet who
would get into this altered stage day just in meditation right,
put them in temperatures they just about it. It's one
of the best studies I've ever read about flow state,

(01:03:10):
and and that for me it was like, oh wow,
there is another level, right, there's of how far you
can drive your mind because and the thing that like
I listened to a couple other your great podcasts you've
done in the past. One one of the interviewers talked
about fear with you, and fear obviously once you produce
those stress hormones and sometimes you don't even choose, it's

(01:03:32):
just gonna happen naturally, that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Disrupts all this other stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
So I love how you're you've integrated Eastern philosophical meditation
into these very intense driven, uh ambitious, uh feats of
of not an intellectual focus, physical focus, and certainly spiritual focus.

(01:03:58):
So can you describe how all those come together?

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Yeah? I think just by the background of biology and
being curious and looking at nature, it was kind of
just a natural next step to try to put them
together with the psychology and the performance. And because I
was also in the medical field, we could actually get feedback. So,
like I said before, with free diving, that was one
of my greatest revelations, Like it's just time or distance.

(01:04:23):
So if you screw up something then you'll see in
the result. You don't hold your breath as long like
people can try it home on dry land, right, Yeah,
and if you do something right, you breathe right or
do the stretching rid your mind is right, like you
have positive thinking or you're going to a flow state.
And anyone can do that. Anyone listening to this podcast
can learn what we're talking about. It's not unattainable, but
it takes work. But once you get there, it's so

(01:04:45):
satisfying and it's so beautiful and it's a wonderful place
to be, kind of this absorbed place of playfulness. Right,
and yeah, to send me how the man I was
lucky to meet and he loved the breath holding stuff
I did. I had him do breath holding with these
PhD students at gleam On Graduate University in California before
he passed. But he has a whole interesting store in himself.

(01:05:07):
So people can just look up flow and me highly
to extend me how a long story for the war.
He came from Hungary, then went to Italy, then escaped
to America and became a professor and just was brilliant.
But he studied flow and happiness. Yes, so it's very
interesting to you know, appreciate and understand that he also
looked at happiness and how do you have a happy

(01:05:27):
good life? And that came from flow state, from being
absorbed in your activities. So that was the connection he
was studying. But anyways, back to your question here, it's
fun to break down all these things in our lives
that are like passion or you know, hobby driven. And
I found out quite early that well, with free diving

(01:05:49):
and breath work, it can take you so far in
your health and your performance you can measure it. And
so one of the greatest revelations was that. And I
was lucky enough also to meet John kabat Sin, who
is like the father of modern mindfulness and mindfulness based
stress reduction msbr up in New York and his son
randomly knew me, and he's my age or more or

(01:06:10):
less my aide. So I was teaching up in New
York at the Omega Center and randomly, Sir John Kabatzin,
I almost guess we could call him. He's a great,
you know, famous figure within modern psychology and especially with
veterans and using mindfulness for you know, stress release, one
of the first to describe that like a psychologist. And

(01:06:30):
he was randomly hosting a seminar there and I was
going to teach him the same you know location an
hour after. So I went in and I gave him
my book Mythology, and I signed it and and his
son then knew me. He said, well, I've seen you
on Discovery Channel and National Geographic and you were the
first holder breath monitoring minutes and you went on and
aline the best pits ever. And I'm with his dad.
He's like this superman, this super psychologist, and oh, I'd

(01:06:55):
written about it in my book. And I'd say, yeah,
I have you here, and you know, never met him.
I'd Metgic send me how because I reached out to
him during the process of writing the book, but I
didn't reach out to that other guys Kabat Sin. Then
I meet him and his son knows all this stuff
about me. I was so flattered and surprised. But anyways,
then he said something. He said, because I have a

(01:07:16):
business partner in Denmark who's very much with you know,
connection and teams and like how you improve businesses, and
I don't know much about that. I'm more with athletes
and people. So he's a great partner of a great friend.
Beyond is his name. But he's very good with words,
so he would do like mindfulness in meters, like you

(01:07:36):
could measure mindfulness. So that's not very easy to translate.
So I told Kebot John kebat Sin that you know,
we use meditation because he uses mindfulness. So I called
it meditation underwater. But my business partner called it meditation
mindfulness by measure, Oh wow, because he's like the father

(01:07:58):
of mindfulness, right, So he was like, I've never thought
about that in my life. That's brilliant. So you can
measure the level of mindfulness just by seconds you hold
your breath, all the depth or the distance you go,
which is true. Right. It's a very crude, it's a
very rough measurement stick, but it's very easy and it

(01:08:22):
never fails. It's always the same time. Like seconds are
seconds and meters are feed our feet. And if you
do something right in your strategy, in your mental preparation,
in your diet, in your anything, physical training, stretching, flexibility,
body work, breath work, everything you do, if you do
that right, you will improve the seconds you hold your

(01:08:42):
breath with less effort, and the meters you will go
deeper longer. So I think free diving or breath holding.
You know, I did a Ted talk many years ago
called breath holding is the New Black. We're actually talked
about veterans and all the statistics and that we have
done a lot of research because we have supported many
veterans over the years, more than ten years now. But
that's a different story. We can I'm happy to come

(01:09:04):
back to that because that needs more attention always. But
it was just interesting to kind of be with this,
you know, phenomenal guy who was this expert in psychology
and mindfulness and then he had never thought about it
from the perspective of holding your breath, and I think
to me that was like like just showing me the

(01:09:26):
essence of what free diving can be or breath holding.
So when I did this Ted talk, breath holding is
the new Black. What I mean is that if you
hold your breath. First of all, this is incredibly interesting.
You know it's just a pause five seconds, ten seconds,
and you could see already and feel now with the

(01:09:47):
listeners out there are the viewers, there is this incredible
stillness and this calmness. You can even hear my voice
is calmer, right, just for five seconds breath hold because
you stop whatever's going on, whatever in your head. We
called it the monkey mind and yoga, like, oh what
am I doing tomorrow? Am I going? Am I good enough?
Can I do it? What happened yesterday? Why didn't you

(01:10:08):
give me that I got cheated? Why this? This is
that a lot of stuff that doesn't propel you forward,
and it's noise, and it makes you not go into
that focused place or that flow state because you have
too much like going on in the yoga they called
it the monkey mind, like a little cheeky monkey, like
running up and down the trees doing naughty things.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Yeah, So with breath holding, so if we say free diving,
that's just what I call it in general, But breath
holding can also be on land. That's not free diving, right,
but it's kind of training. Free diving is going deep
in the water, basically on a pool. But I call
all breath holding free diving kind of But if we
just say breath holding, then people know what I mean.
And with breath holding, there is so much untapped potential.

(01:10:49):
Breath work is becoming very fashionable. Now. We had mindfulness,
we had meditation, paved the road and I saw this.
That's why I wrote the book Mythology fifteen years ago more.
But it was and fashionable. Then Viim Huff came along
and it got more attention. Cold water exposure. But vim
huff is more like hyperventilation, more active. It's not maybe
so much too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
When I started looking at your stuff, I found it
really different than Yeah. It was much more of a
his Like you said, there, there's a there's an intensity about.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
The it's more like a prianiam. It's more like the intense. Also,
if you're cold and in eyes, you want to breathe
fast to get the temperature up on the blood circulating side.
It's a natural way for doing this tumo. It's called
tumo where you sit in the eyes. And I trained
in India several times and have two gurus there that
taught me two masses as well. But I just because
of my nerdy background and science, I like to dig

(01:11:42):
in with scientific backed explanations and what happened. So, you know,
like you explained before, the parasympathetic and sympathetic in case
people don't know that, the sympathetic is also what we
call fight and flight. So that's the activating thing. That's
what's activated during hyperventilation and screaming and running. And that's
a good thing in the sense that it pumps adrenaline
out and you get you know, readier, you get blood

(01:12:05):
to your muscles and you can run or fight. That's
why it's called fight and flight. But it's not a
healthy and good place to be for months and months,
and that's why people die from stroke or you know,
veteran struggle, well, just a lot of things. You know,
it's on overdrive. So with breath holding, you have a beautiful, free,
always available source of going into the pair sympathetic part

(01:12:27):
of course, with normal breathing. Also slow breathing, slow exhale.
So if you want the number one tip or the
first tip of the podcast today, then the best tip
I have is the key to relaxation is in the exhalation. Again,

(01:12:50):
the noses of breathing. The mouth is for eating, So
always use the nose to get that naturenoxide filled the air.
Get it up high to the brain. Connect with the brain,
tell your body, tell your mind that you're in control,
you're breathing, you're alive, it's beautiful, you're grateful, everything is wonderful.
And your brain listens and your body knows it. Do
you have that conversation with yourself but also with my heart.

(01:13:11):
When I hold my breath for twenty minutes, I have
a deep, intimate conversation about my heart, and I don't
command it, but I ask it kindly to beat softer.
It's not just the hot rate like the pulse pert
or the electricity. It is a contract almost like if
I should explain it to people, it's almost like a jellyfish.

(01:13:31):
Everybody a jellyfish, either in the ocean or or on television. Right,
this kind of soft alien movement that is so like
almost like a ballerina dancing, you know, floating. You're reelly
in space like without gravity, right, So I have my
heart chambers go into kind of this soft feeling, and

(01:13:53):
I know when I connect with my heart and feel
the softness that my breath hope will be long. So
it's also a positive affirmation. Oh now it is soft,
so it will be longer. Then it becomes longer than
the hot learns. It's called conditioned response. Conditioned response. Olive
was the first Russian scientists who studied dogs. And he
would ring a bell and he would give them food

(01:14:14):
and they would drool, and then he would just not
give them food, but still ring the bell, and they
would still drool, and he would collect how much saliva
came out, and so that it's called a conditioned response
or a response to something that you associate, in this
case with food. But then the bell was the sound
that associated. Now we're going to get food, so I
need to produce aliva, and just talking about it, I

(01:14:35):
produce aliva just talking about food. Can you talk about
how humans can condition a response that?

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Yeah, because like you just were talking about it, like
the act of the conscious engagement with the natural processes
and getting to that what is it that the natural
symbiotic state where your brain and your heart and your lungs.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
You're just connecting what's there, and you revisit and you
you kind of introduce, you know, this interconnected with yourself
just at a deeper level or maybe a new a
new experience. And and again that's why I think breath
work and especially breath holding, but I'm biased, you know,
I'm really a fan of this breath holding, but also

(01:15:21):
the safety measurement. So again, never hold your breath alone underwater,
but on dry land, it's fine. Even if you pass out,
nothing's going to happen. You're gonna wake up. The body
takes over. If you're in the couch or you know,
at home in the morning before breakfast, you want to
push it. Three or four breath holds in a row.
I have something called the seven Day breath Hold Challenge,
so people can go and find it's completely free. Yeah.
Please spend many years and we talk about breathology and

(01:15:45):
then yeah, well the breath hold Challenge. I didn't want
to pitch anything. Yeah, no, please please if the hey listen,
if you it is it inspires you at all.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Yeah, like, go to his channel, consume his material and
start doing the work. It's like other than buying your book,
Like it's all free, right, Yeah, we have.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Freedom paid program. Of course, we also have an instructive
program where people from all around the world becoming breath
work or pathology instructors, but we only do it once
a year to kind of keep that cohort for sure
my energy and focus and other things I do. But anyways,
the seven Day Breathold Challenges is kind of the ultimate
way that we have designed a program where you, in

(01:16:28):
seven days, we hope can double your breathles And I
think it's phenomenal if you can do anything, whether you
double your revenue or your push ups or your bench
press or speed of running or there are many things
we cannot physically double in a week, right, but mentally
we can double or triple or gadrouple. We can take
tiger leap, you know, we can take the quantum leap.

(01:16:48):
And so for me, besides of getting to know your
body and your heart and connecting with your heart and
having this in a dialogue and getting to know how
to tune those treaquencies in the radio, so go into
adults Gama beta, into those meditation frequencies where you're just
there's no time restrained and you're just kind of floating
and doing what you love. To that element as well

(01:17:12):
is knowing your body better, so you can go into
this parasympathetic part, which is the rest and digest. So
that is where you literally digest food, experiences, thoughts, impressions
throughout the day. That will give you a better night's sleep.
It will give you a deeper rem sleep. It will
talking about conditioning and good habits. It will really take
something you do every day anyways, but maybe have bad

(01:17:34):
habits before bed time or too much on the you know,
blue light and devices and just keeping your brain busy,
eating too close to going to bed and being too
active or agitator or reading bad news that's not going
to help you for the night sleep. You can wait
till the next day to open that email. Little things
like that you can change and like again, stacking and

(01:17:55):
doing many little things will have a great outcome. So
with breath holding, I think it's beautiful because it gives
you a pause. You can do it anywhere. You can
do it on the train, you can do it, you know,
five ten seconds, and it gives you time to reflect,
and it teaches you about your body and how amazing
your body is. And that is one of the greatest
things I love in my teaching. I call myself a teacher,

(01:18:16):
people call me a coach, but whatever, you know, a trainer,
a teacher to show this, you know, unlimited basically potential
that we all have. And I really don't want people
to think that I'm this superhuman or Discovery crown with
the superhuman when I then moved it to twenty two minutes,
as your correctly said, I moved the record to twenty
one minutes and twenty two minutes breath old twenty two

(01:18:38):
zero zero, and I was crowned the ultimate superhuman on
Discovery Bye by that. But I don't want to have
a gap between what people think I do and they
cannot do it. I'm not saying everyone can hold the
breath for twenty two minutes, but they can do much more.
You can do much more than you think, yeah or believe, right,
And it's all about the process that I call it

(01:18:59):
baby steps, this process, breaking it down in doable steps,
and then you get to that level. Then it's almost
like a computer game. I don't play computer games, but
it's almost like these levels, right, I really don't, and
I was never interested in sitting down and playing computers,
so I'm horrible at it if I should try. But
like pac Man or whatever, all these levels you unlock
new levels, and once you reach the level of anything

(01:19:22):
in life, a skill, a skill development, then you cannot
unlearn it. It's kind of like we're say in Denmark,
like riding the bike, because we all have bikes, right,
I think you're saying in the US the saying like, yeah,
you learn to ride the bike. You don't forget it.
It's a nervous system, muscular balanced, brain coordination thing. It's
a skill. So I love to show people the fascinating body.

(01:19:46):
They have this amazing machinery that you can, you know,
learn to drive, but sadly, in school, we don't learn
to drive. Like I said, I also grew up in Florida.
I was so blessed to have p physical education and
we learned a little bit about muscles and you know,
triceps and blah blah blah, and that's fine, but you
don't learn how to manage the body. And nobody teaches

(01:20:08):
you how to breathe. And that is the source of life.
And we don't have to discuss this, and you don't
need to be a genius or you know, professor to
figure out that without breathing, you don't go very far.
It's like a few minutes, it's over. And that's food, water, okay.
You know, love relationships, intimate moments, you can go for

(01:20:28):
a longer time, but breathing, few miniature kind of got
out of it. So so breathing is so important and
that's what we need to bring back into this hectic
modern life. And it's really free for everyone. So, like
I said, with the breath Al Challenge, it's seven days
where people have access to everything online videos, you know,
a new video every day unlocked, and new exercises. But

(01:20:49):
it's actually a seven day condensed breathing program where they
learn all the best exercises from nose breathing or gy breathing.
I talk about the inner dolphin. So that is something
when I come back maybe another time we have a
pot two. We can talk much more about how you
unlock love to do in.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
Part two, and we include going to a pool, right,
and we.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Can talk about the unmakingholding specific right, and then we
can maybe go out to the ocean and we can
explore a little bit because then it's more tangible there. Yes, yeah,
and that would be wonderful because to unlock that. So
it's a cliffhanger, Thank you rainbow, thank you sly. So
you know, unlocking that inner dolphin, that beautiful mammalian dive

(01:21:33):
response that we all have. That's kind of the point
I wanted to make everyone listening or seeing this show,
this great David Brutherford show, have the same nervous system,
the same twelve cranial nerves. They have the tenth cranial nerve,
the vegas nerve that runs from the bark of your
of your brain near the cerebellum where you have your
equilibrium and your your kind of motor skills, and it

(01:21:56):
sends roots through your next to your corona gattery in
the vegas nerve. It's like the high way of the
rest and digest. So this paras empathetic, this kind of
long name paris empathetic nervous system, the rest and digest
and with breath work and slow exhale. Like I said,
the key to relaxation is in the exhalation. Slow exhale
through the mouth, that's fine, But inhale with the nose,

(01:22:18):
you trigger the vegus nerve. You turn it on, you
stimulate it, and that will lower your heart rate, You
soften your voice. Imagine what it does for a team
when you have to give an important message or an
a crucial mission, or you know, business wise, getting your
message across to all the people that need to understand
the assignment and be part of the team or the

(01:22:39):
project or the mission. But also the fact that you
can slow down your monkey mind, which is not very
easy with the mind, like we just discussed, but with breathing,
it's automatic and it gives the stillness to the body
and it gives so you'd ask me about conditioning. This
is conditioning your body to tap into that nervous system
that is not so well known because we live in

(01:23:01):
a very hectic, overdry world, in the sympathetic world, in
the stress world. So the beautiful thing about it is
that it's like a forked system, so a bi force system,
so you cannot be in both systems at the same time.
Of course, some areas of the systems i'd work in
different areas of your body, right, But if you go
into rest and digest, you shut down the adrenaline, the

(01:23:24):
cordisol what we would call the stress hormones that give
you bad poor night or poor sleep at night. You
gain weight. A lot of people gain weight when they're
stressed because the adrenaline and cordisol give them them bad
food choices, and it's often fat or burgers or sugar
or cravings, and then you eat too much and before bed,
and then you don't go out and work out. You
want it to, but then you don't, but then you

(01:23:44):
feel bad that it didn't work out, and then you
eat some Moart chocolate. It's just a vicious circle, very
easy to understand, very complex to break habits right, but
psychologically easy to understand. But with breath holding, I've seen
so many people lose weight as well and improve the
night's sleep, improve sleep apnea, falling asleep faster, staying longer
in the rem sleep. So the recovery uh sleep pattern

(01:24:06):
that really makes the body strong for the next day,
heal you if you're sick and and and breath holding
is just such an unknown, untapped activity and it's right there,
and it is actually part of the yoga. It's just
not so known, you know. In the Pranayama they talk
about the the different ways of holding your breath with

(01:24:28):
full lungs, empty lungs. I don't want to nerd too
much on it. People can read it in the book.
I go into great detail in the pathology book. It's
it's on Amazon, so it can be found easily. But
but really, you know, you can learn to navigate your
body better. And if we taught kids at school how
to navigate the breathing and the breath holding and the
pause and not react at a you know and five

(01:24:50):
for example for boys, and not react to as stimulus,
but but kind of be more you know, passive and
look at it and it's not what's happening to me,
it's happen around me or you know, but I'm the
one responsible for how I react so that is really
really healing. And also for like veterans and people I've
worked with with trauma and high levels of stress, when

(01:25:12):
you see that power implanted or instilled in you that
you can make the decision Wow, I can shut off
the monkey mind. I can shut off the chitter chatter
from the past, that kind of vinyl record that just
goes in the same room it blew up, or it
was my fault or this happened, or my family or whatever.
You can kind of you can break that pattern, and

(01:25:34):
with breath holding you just have a beautiful invitation to
go into new passages of your nervous system and especially
that parasympathetic area that you might have not been visiting
for many years, not consciously at least right. Right, So
we don't train relaxation, we train stress in everyday city life. Right,
Busy life is mostly doing and being active, and you're

(01:25:56):
always late for something and you need to rush up
and hurry to do more. But it's actually often you
know less as more so I think with an interesting
crossroad now with everything with social media AI, you know
all the things going on around the world where people
start to both questioning authorities and how can I stay

(01:26:20):
as healthy as possible, but also like finding answers and
also with you know, potential wars or survival or you know,
having a shelter or learning survival skills, Like people are
more open minded to taking responsibility for their own lives. Yes,
and with safety, with with you know, protection, And I

(01:26:40):
see this clearly also now that that people actually younger
people often very successful entrepreneurs. And when I say younger,
I mean people in the twenties or thirties that have
either made a lot of money or they're building companies
incredible feeds, but they're so stressed out. And the difference

(01:27:01):
between those that new generation and people twenty years ago
and my generation or my parents' generation, where you never
complained and there was not even a word called stress,
You didn't call in for work like I'm stressed, I'm
having a headache, I need a me day. You just
went to work, right, And so this younger generation is
actually interested in investing in themselves and learning we could say,

(01:27:25):
more holistic approaches to health and performance. And they see
the parallel between the performance and their health and being
a better leader in their company and in their own
family or their own life, and the productivity and the
outcome of the company, so the bottom line and the
financial success. Right. So there is an interesting time now

(01:27:46):
where more and more people are taking the responsibility and
control back, and I think breath work is one of
the easiest and most formidable ways of doing just that
because you could do it anywhere. People don't know how
you know, where you do it, or why you do it,
or you know, you can even sit on the car
or on the plane and do your breath work. You

(01:28:10):
don't even have to close your eyes. You can do
it subtly or connecting with your heart, make it soft.
Nobody knows that you're sitting and doing that. Sure, you're
not like a yoga freak or having sense or anything,
you know, candles around all this, you're just or incense.
You know, you're just you, But you do some magic
stuff inside and that is conditioning. So you're conditioning your
body for good habits. And that's why I like to identify,

(01:28:32):
as I mentioned in the beginning, these bad habits are
poor habits in people, and then changing them into good
habits so they do the same like breathing. We all breathe.
So I'll give people a chance to guess how many
times do you think you breathe every day?

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Great question. This is what everybody should know. This is
the most important thing in our lives. Breathing, for sure,
hands down, there's nothing more important, right, Not your parents,
not your bru dog, not your car, you No, not
your bank account, no your crypto account. Nothing breathing. Yet
we're not taught how to breathe right as kids. And

(01:29:08):
imagine if you could go to the exam or the
test without stress, or when you're bullied, how do you react?
And you know? So I'm a big proponent of all that.
I support a school in Cambodia and our common friend,
the Organs, and also support these two hundred and fifty kids.
And we teach them breathing, and we teach them how
to clean up plastic, and they're having a garden now
and growing vegetables, so connected with earth and nature, and

(01:29:31):
we teach them about the body. So it's never too late.
The answer is twenty thirty thousand times a day we breathe,
So why not breathe optimally? Why not learn? Like I said,
drive the car, why not learn how to drive your body?
And it's really not difficult. It just starts with simple
breathing exercises, and then there is a whole new universe

(01:29:51):
going into the mindset, going into your diet, going into
high performance like the world you come from, military sports business,
and then go going into altered states of mind, going
into maybe more psychedelic experiences or more full universal experiences.
You can call them many things, but it unlocks so
many new doors and then you can go through those

(01:30:13):
doors and new world's unfold. And like I said, it's
totally free and it's safe breath work, so there's no
it's no wonder that it's becoming popular, but it just
needs to be done in a structured way. Find someone
that you trust or that sound trustworthy, not too dramatic
or like to like like like it's a theater show

(01:30:36):
or like it's breath work. Unfortunately it is. Also it
has become like overpopularized, if that's even a word. Everybody's
an expert now and everybody's a breath master. Apparently when
I click on Facebook there's like twelve programs, Like it's
just kind of flooded with experts everywhere. So you know,
find a person or a school or direction that you like,

(01:30:58):
try that out and then of course, what we we
doing brithologies. We tried to bring all the elements from
high performance, cutting at science, and timeless wisdom. Those are
the three pillars of prithology. And that is again based
just in my natural curiosity and what I was interested
in because I also did judo, I did martial arts.
I was the Danish champion twice in martial arts in
my younger years as well. So it's just been things

(01:31:20):
I've picked up and I've seen these are solid pillars.
And if we have three pillars, it's not rocking the boat.
It's stable, it stands firm. And on top of those
three areas of knowledge and experiential doing, like you have
to feel it in your body, I build the prithology platform.
So so we also explained the signs behind why you

(01:31:41):
should breathe with your nose. As we talked about the
noble winning people, that explained, oh, the LVO I open,
the smooth muscle tissue relaxes, and the blood vessels dilate.
The mammalian dart response. When you hold your breath, slow
your heart rate, you know, you change the way the
blood is circulating in your body. You change the patterns
of your brain, you shift into different stages, which I

(01:32:02):
call meditation underwater. Right, this radio channel. All these things
are doable by everyone listening here. And the beautiful thing
about breathwork and when your train breathing is that it
also helps you at night because you create good habits.
Right again, you condition your nervous system, you rewire it
to work more optimally, and when you sleep at night

(01:32:23):
it still works better, which is why you get more
rest and you wake up you know, like a baby.
Same with running, kind of right, when I have to
give an example, kind of a silly example, I just
always give this example. When you run, you know, then
you stop after half an hour, after five miles, but
it's not like the running is not still in you.
It still helps you with you know, digesting food, breaking

(01:32:45):
down a fat, keeping you energetic during the day and
at night because your heart gets stronger, you have more solid,
deep sleep. So just because you stop running doesn't mean
you don't have a post on the follow of the fact, right,
And this is the same with breathwork. The effect on
your nervous system, on your brain, on your hormones which
are produced or not produced, or at least released or

(01:33:07):
not released, like Adrenaline is a hormone, stress hormone. All
that is something you can influence and that is probably
the most overlooked aspect of modern medicine. That we can
tap into these what you call the autonomous nervous system,
meaning the self running or self ruling system. And that
is maybe you know, one of the biggest secrets of yoga,

(01:33:30):
that you can tap into those nervous threads and go
into your heart and go into your digestion. And that
is also why you can influence weight loss from breath
work and from priming yourself and from making better decisions
on the foods you eat the nutrients you get. But
that follows the condition you do with breathing. When you

(01:33:51):
become more in touch with yourself, then you also know
what is right for you or not, what you need,
what you don't need, and when you learn to hold
your breath. Mission with breath holding is not that everybody
should go diving underrise or do crazy stuff, especially to
never dive alone, but it is to teach people very simply.
You know, I'm a not very smart guy, so I
like the simple stuff, make it very simple. So I

(01:34:14):
want to tell people that they can learn to become
comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. That is the takeaway message.
That is why people should do breath holding. Then there's
a multitude of benefits of the strength and blood, more
hemoglobein EPO production from the bone marrow, short term benefits,

(01:34:35):
from the spleen contracting, from the mamalandar response. Long term
effects because you have a higher globin loads, so you
have more binding capacity, which some people also cheat when
they take epos in sports. Right, but you can do
it naturally, I call it natural doping from breath work
and especially breath holding. You can do it, and you
can simulate high altitude training. You do it with intermitted

(01:34:57):
hypoxic training and breathles and you can do CO two
tables oxygen tables. But basically what you do is you
get everything the mitochondria and everything in your body and
your cells on their tippy toes, whether you eat, don't eat,
So fasting for three days five days, like the body goes,
what's going on? Ketogenesis? Burn something else, break down the fat. Okay,

(01:35:19):
we're still alive. Oh I get clarity down on my brain.
Oh I could do it. You unlock a new level.
Oh I could go five days without eating. Yep, I
didn't die. I thought I would because I live in
a society where we twelve times a day and that's normal,
and that's what you're taught as a baby. But you
can go for a month without food. I just had
a buddy. Yeah, a month, but a week is as normal.

(01:35:39):
I go usually a week from weekend to weekend, one
hundred and thirty hours, and I just drink water and
a little drop of lime juice or lemon juice. But
so fasting or a cold water exposure or holding your breath,
those are all the main extremes for the body, yep,
and the mind. So with breath holding, you don't need

(01:36:00):
to go and jump and cold water, you know, find
a lake or something and you can do it anywhere,
and it's it's provoking your body and it's it's it's
creating fear. Back to that, I don't know if we
caught up on the fear, but I don't really feel fear.
I never run, no, no, that's fine, But I'm not
really a fearful person. I'm not really afraid of anything.

(01:36:21):
And either I'm very dumb or I'm just naive or
very blissed or blessed or I don't know. I had
a lucky life. It's all the breathing. Yeah, But I'm
really not afraid of many things. You know. The only
thing I'm afraid of is losing a loved one. You know,
that's my biggest fear. Of course, I guess it is
for most people. But I've never been afraid of like
hurting my leg or in free diving. You know, we

(01:36:42):
take all we're very cautious about the safety. And so
another thing, maybe when people see this superhuman stuff and
underrice diving, you know, don't go and do it without training.
But I train all these baby steps and years and
years and years and drill and drill and drill just
like you do us right now. So I feel safe
when I do it, and I don't feel it's risky.
But people seeing it thinks it's extreme or stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
Maybe, well it's outside of their comfort zone, right, and
that's generation or what they can understand, that's what they
can't appreciate. So tell us, tell us just recently, because
you know, a lot of times when people move into
these extreme endeavors, there's a there's a stage in their
life and then they move beyond it and they become teachers,

(01:37:24):
and you've done, but you're still very connected to the community.
And would you just let's close on that that recent
experience you just had, that story you told me before
and that relationship was is one of the coolest things.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
That I've heard. Yeah, well, I love to teach. I
would say I'm a born teacher. I love to create
results in other people, and I love to be this
kind of childish guy, like showing your body is just
absolutely phenomenal. Look at what you can do, whether it's
lifting the diaphragm or lowering the pulse and all this stuff.
So I just came back also for the Come on
Your Fine podcast Here, just back two days ago from Dominica,

(01:38:01):
which is a small island down in the Caribbean between
Guadalupe and Martinique, and we were having two weeks of
competition back to back in free diving, so in deep diving.
This was deep diving, not breath holding, not swimming in
the surface, deep diving into the blue you know, abyss.
Yeah alongside. I was lucky to go the last day
with sperm whales and pilot whales. Oh wow, I was blessed.

(01:38:24):
I have such a privileged life. I know, I'm so spoiled.
And the week before I flew from Miami to Tuloum,
which is down in Mexico, and I joined forces with
Alexei Molchinov. Hands down the best free diver in the world.
There's no discussion. People can just look me up. Besides
being a phenomenal athlete, he's just a really, really all
round great guy. I competed with alex the first time

(01:38:47):
in two thousand and five. He just turned eighteen so
he could enter the World Championship. I got lucky. I won.
I was a bit older and more experienced, But that's
the time I talked about before two thousand and three,
four or five, when I was at my prime around
thirty and I trained very hard for a long time.
And Alexi's mom was the greatest free diver of all time.

(01:39:09):
Her name was Natalia Molchanov Molchanova, and never before after
as anyone come close. There are a few female divers
now that are contenders, but nobody has unlocked that level.
She died unfortunately, just a few years ago in Spain
during a training sessions. She disappeared. Maybe the current we
don't know. They never recovered the body, which is probably
Alexis told me he's glad they never found the body.

(01:39:31):
By the way, he just released a movie on Amazon
on Prime I think called Free Diver Easy to Remember.
It's a beautiful free Diver and you will see the
relationship with his mom. It was his greatest coach, his love,
his mentor, and they had this beautiful connection and this relationship.
It is a beautiful movie. And so I was part
of that because when I started setting my world records,

(01:39:53):
Natalia did, so we kind of had this in common.
And I always liked alex And then in two thousand
and six we competed on the national level for the
teams and Denmark won for the first time ever. I
was like a flying coach. I was on the team
and I was a coach. Yeah, but you know in
little sports, like we talked about, you don't have money
for coaches or like national this and that, you're just
your own coach with the national team. You know, I

(01:40:14):
think we paid our own towels to and you know,
like at that level, right, he's a hobby. I've never
got rich from freedom because so people don't misunderstand anything.
And then in two thousand and seven, we competed side
by side, and again I got lucky. I won, he
got the silver. So actually both in all these years

(01:40:35):
were in the same you know, when we had the
medals and stuff, and we were competitors, but we it
was also very friendly. And I've always liked a leg
say and today, you know, he's developed into a man.
He's thirty eight, young man, very child is still like
I am, I guess, but this playfulness. He has a
son now, Max was five, so you know he's passing
on this great heritage stuff of sport. But he was

(01:40:56):
super active. We have a very similar background. He started
swimming at the age of five, got into other sports
as well, and just so I had the world record
in the deepest dive is two hundred feet dive, and
alexis basically all records in the world. He has forty
two world records now, but he never had it in
the unassisted the one where you just swim down in breastroke.

(01:41:18):
And I thought I could help him on that because
I had the record before and that's kind of my specialty.
So we reconnected last year. He's a member of the
Explorers Club in New York, a recent member. I've been
a member for many years because we've kind of moved
the limits from mankind. So before exploration was more the
Explorers Club is Phenomenal Club, which one of the greatest

(01:41:38):
clubs ever it is in the world, and it's you know,
it's exploration of land and space and ocean, and it's
also protection of animals and learning about cultures and respecting
nature and uncovering historic events and like really just understanding
mankind and protecting what we have to a best ability
Phenomenal Club and Alexa at him there and I took

(01:42:01):
him to some firewalking at one of the crazy members
of the club's private house of wild party and just
something really really extraordinary people and everyone just with crazy stories.
So it's like like like just it's just a wild place.
Everybody is like but everybody's calm because it's like everybody
has so anyway, So we reconnected and then the last

(01:42:22):
year we started connecting more, and the last three months
I started like we connected more. And then on WhatsApp
I started coaching a little bit. He sent videos. I
would give pointers and I think it is so wonderful
to see an athlete at the top of his game,
the best in the world. By far. You can just
see any video one video you will know without knowing
about freedom, I mean that he is the cream Della
creating style. It's impeccable. The strength, the flexibility, everything has

(01:42:46):
developed over yeah, since he was a young young kid, right,
but still to be open minded to an old dinosaur
like me, you know, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
That moves in And I'm talking and one it's the respect,
the mutual respect too. It's it's the recognition that you
always need help, even if you're the best of the best,
to be open to.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
And we all know also Ale saying you, I guess
without knowing you so much personally and myself, it's hot
for us women and men, but maybe especially any men
to ask for help. Yeah, I think that's a common
thing for sure. So to be able to do that
and then nerd on those things, you know. And and
and he broke or we broke the world record on
Monday is Monday, so he had a blackout two days

(01:43:32):
before that was with the no fens. So we changed
styles talking about again, uh, talking about victories or or
you know, success or failure. He still didn't manage the record.
He was too tied and fatigue from a full year
of training and traveling and being in so many places.
He runs also multional free diving, so develop an equipment

(01:43:52):
high level and he just has a lot on his plate,
but he manages, he manages all this brilliantly. His energies
men mental focus, not negative energy, just cuts it out.
But he then we changed tactics and he did the
deepest dive in the world four hundred and sixteen feet,
so one hundred and twenty seven meters with bifins. So
people in Florida are people spurarfishing noses, little flip flops,

(01:44:14):
little fins, a bit longer his fins. But there were
five on fiberglass, not cabon fibero, so really really impressive.
And it's the height of the Statue of Liberty, so
people just have an understanding. The dive almost took five minutes.
It's insane, swimming NonStop, sinking down and then swimming up.
Four point forty three was the time to insane. People

(01:44:36):
can find it online and you were there, right there,
and I was coaching him in the water and what
to say, and so again you have this incredible responsibility
of not screwing it up. Yeah, because if I say
something wrong or touched him, he's disqualified. So there are
so many it's like, really, you know split seconds that
you really need to be very focused and know what
to do and have the experience. So he recognized I

(01:44:58):
also have this, and we just had people riding in.
It's so great to see you guys together again, and wow,
this is awesome, this is inspirational. And I was surprised,
being this old geezer, you know that a lot of
the younger generation or free divers had either read my
book or had it with them on Kindle. Yeah, one
had showed me a picture that I signed for them
ten years ago school a Dima, which is like a
dive show, the biggest dive show in the world. And

(01:45:20):
he said, yeah, you showed us this, and now we
have a dive shop in Florida. We take people spearfishing
and we show them free diving, and and yeah, it's
just fun to be appreciated and it's it's great to
see that there's still development and then to be with
the free diving community. So but maybe just to end
on that with a leg, say, how do you see
if an athlete is great or the highest level. So

(01:45:44):
we would train more than anybody else there. We would
train three or four times a day, flexibility, strength, looking
very much at the diet, cutting things out because you
got like some bad infection. That's one of the reasons
you had the blackout as well, So cut it out.
Chains the diet went to only bottle water or so
dialing everything. Then some more muscle training again to wake

(01:46:05):
up the muscle for the glycogen process and for like
awakening the muscles. He kind of bulked, so he needed that,
and just listening to his strong intuition like I need
some more bulk training, I need some more fitness training. Okay,
we do that. Do some squads do some weight training.
And then we worked a lot on his knees and
opening the flex you know, the hips, and so some

(01:46:26):
challenges he has had with that change his style. And
then every day we would also go at sunset and
swim in the ocean when nobody else was there, into
the darkness just to drill, drill, and he would like
drills exercises. And then when he had the competition dives,
he would swim out to the platforms as the only
diver of all fifty or sixty divers, and he would

(01:46:47):
even swim back after the blackout. I just told you, right,
no other diver would do that. It's not that they
couldn't do it, but they wouldn't have the mental capacity.
They wouldn't think. But there's a boat that takes the
athletes in, but he's just like no, no, And that
is also like reinforcing that strength that Okay, at a blackout,
I failed, it went bad, but I'll get back, you know,
at it, and I'll swim in and I'll stretch to

(01:47:10):
night and tomorrow I'll change my dot and I'll look
at the dive and I'll analyze it with stick and
we'll change something and you know. So it's it's just
always finding that extra level of unlocking a potential and
just I like to call it stacking, right, So you so,
for example, one day I came to Alex's room and
he was very sore because we had played table ten.

(01:47:32):
He's like crazy, like an hour and a half the
night before. He was sore in his lower back and
he hardly couldn't bend OUs, so he was brussing his
teeth and at the same time, of course, it did stretching.
So again, stacking, like you do things but you can
be very productive if you do things in a smart
way that you have to do anyways, but you stack
them together and again, then the outcome is faster, right
and better. So it was just, you know, extraordinary to

(01:47:55):
be so close to him again and with him and
see why he's at the top of his game, what
distinguishes him from There were many other great free divers,
Continental records, American records, really great and another girl, uh
Kate Kattererina did two world records in the no fins.
He got that record wow in the female category. And

(01:48:18):
and to watch her and to get to talk with
her a nerd about technique and style, so fulfilling and fun. Yeah, sting. Obviously,
I could sit here and listen to you for days.
I mean, you're I think the people will fall asleep.
But don't take them in the water next time. That's
maybe more interesting. I take them under the surface.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
I mean, I think everybody's interested in in what drives people. Sure,
everybody I think has a curiosity for you know, how'd
you do it? Obviously, and then I think when you
can articulate it in a way that's genuine and and
really comes from that, that at that place of dedication

(01:48:59):
and calm and sincerity, like people can feel that, and
I think you certainly have. That's been such a pleasure
getting to know you. It's such an honor to have show.
Where can people follow you? Where can they buy the book?
And what do you have coming up next?

Speaker 2 (01:49:18):
Well, Breathology is a brand, it's a method, so it's
it's easy whether you spell it the other one way
or the other. I have all the domains, so don't
worry about it. But there's a knee in the middle.
Breath theology like breathology like biology. That's the idea. I
think people get it. So I got that domain, I
got the registered trademark, I got everything, so they can
just kind of write breathologists. Stick Stig like the driver

(01:49:41):
like in this crazy cas sho a top gear. It's
very popular in Europe and his name is Stick. So
sometimes I say I am the stick over the helmet.
But they can find it online. We have social media,
but breathology, breathology, spell it whatever way you want and
people can find me sick Severance and I'm the only
one you know, bald Tracy Danny's Viking and stick stick

(01:50:05):
free diving. You know, they'll fine for me, it's easy.
And then for the seven day breath Hold Challenge, they
can just write seven day breath hold Challenge a breath
hold challenge. It comes up as number one on Google.
And that is actually a full blown weak breathwork program,
completely free, with thousands and thousands of people joining. And
like I said during the interview, here we aim to
double people's breathold in a week, maybe triple it well,

(01:50:27):
but just doing that and learning to become comfortable in
an uncomfortable situation. So just to explain the whole idea
why I want this when we wrap it up now,
is that I want people to use that in the
everyday life. Yes, it has to be extrapolated into people's
stay and implemented in their life, whether they're having an
argument with the wife, screaming kids, angry with the boss,
going for a job interview, having that exam. If you're

(01:50:49):
a kid, you're nervous getting bullied, military, no, high high
performance sport athletes, business people, whatever level, you always have
breathing with your your best friends at this ninja skill,
and you can learn to train different breathing ratios and
different styles. Like I said, just follow some people online
that you trust. There are many different schools, many great ways.

(01:51:11):
There's Patrick McEwan called the Oxygen Advantage. I never met him,
but that's also a very science based approach. Bim Huff
I think, is a little bit more like woo woo,
or more like do some push ups and breathe fast
and then going cold shower. But he's very simplistic, so
it's eased to start there. But if you want to
go deeper into the rabbit hole and understand the anatomy
and physiology and psychology and how it all wraps together,

(01:51:32):
then maybe you want to go in another direction. There's
also holotropic breath work by Stanley Gruff. He was very
much into all the altered states of mind and an LSD.
He's a psychologist. I trained with him. Wow. It's called rebirthing,
So that's also more of this trauma release and it's
very intense and hypoventilation. But it's not really for everyday practice.
It's more like a process and you draw a mandola

(01:51:54):
like colors of what you saw and and things like that.
So there are many styles and many directions and breath work.
It's kind of like yoga. There's your shtanga, yoga, power yoga,
yana yoga, there's yin yoga. There's all these styles. But
people just have to find their own way. And I
think if you go to Prithology, we have you know,
free programs, free training, and the Breath Whole Challenge is

(01:52:15):
a good way to start because it's seven days, so
it's doable for anyone. And the other thing besides explaining
that you can implement this in your everyday life, these techniques,
these conditioning responses, these habits, these good habits, is also
that I'm not special. You know, I've trained, I've dedicated,
like you have done incredible things, but that comes with

(01:52:35):
a lot of hot work and blood, sweat and tears.
But I don't want to distance myself. So people think
that bridge is uncrossable, right, superhuman this and unattainable. Yeah,
like you can attain it and you can obtain great things,
but you have to start with babysips and it starts
with curiosity and an open mind and doing breath work,
you know, breathing in through the nose, slight pause, having

(01:52:58):
four faces in a breathing side, you know, breathing in
slight pauster in the breath letting go, you know, like
a sigh, and then slide pause again. That's the third phase,
and then you inhale right, So it's like the whole
process of breathing becomes a natural thing that you train

(01:53:18):
with your awareness. So you sit down for two minutes
and do it in the car or before you go
to a meeting, and you have a completely different outlook
at what's in front of you and the world maybe
even right, and that in a journey of connecting with
your mind and kind of fighting that urge to breathe
when you go into breath holding is fun and interesting
and it's great for your long capacity. So people with
post COVID lung cancer, asthma, allergies, it's just a great

(01:53:43):
way to reinforce and strengthen your lungs and your vital capacity,
becoming more flexible, getting a stronger diaphragm, And there are
tons of exercises in brethology. There's a book you also asked,
So breathology is explaining in great detail, with diagrams and
paintings and like strations and medical proof and referencing scientific papers,

(01:54:05):
how you train your diaphragm and what it does and
what muscles are involved, and it's like a little cookbook.
It's like step by step process breathing book and a
lot of examples of how people have used it. And
people can just find it on Amazon. There's probably some
pirate companies out there of the online pdf, and I
don't mind. You know, whatever you find write Breathology and

(01:54:26):
maybe there's a digital copy as well. Uh and I
don't care how people find it as long as it
just start. Amen, yes, Stig pleasure. Thank you everyone for
joining us. Thank you

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David Rutherford Show: “22 Minutes Without Air” – World Record Holder Stig Severinsen on the True Limits of Human Performance | Ep. 86

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}David Rutherford Show: “22 Minutes Without Air” – World Record Holder Stig Severinsen on the True Limits of Human Performance | Ep. 86