April 28, 2025 • 57 mins
Join Navy SEAL David Rutherford and Black Rifle Coffee CEO Evan Hafer in a riveting podcast episode as they dive into inspiring courage in young men, defeating Mexican cartels, and stopping a potential war with Iran. This explosive conversation unpacks Trump’s first 100 days, the fight against fentanyl and human trafficking, and the risks of global conflict, offering raw insights on rebuilding trust, empowering the next generation, and securing the nation. Packed with patriotic passion and hard-hitting truths, this episode is a must-watch for anyone invested in America’s resurgence. #NavySEAL #BlackRifleCoffee #Trump100Days #Cartels #IranWar #Courage
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
02:39 - Trump's First 100 Days
16:55 - What Evan Would Like Trump To Do Next
20:41 - How To Defeat The Cartels
27:41 - Why We Need Courageous Leaders
34:48 - Will We Go To War With Iran?
41:17 - Tariffs & The Economy
54:57 - How To Develop Courage
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What would you do when you weren't running a publicly
traded company or flying around and MiG jets for fun.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'll tell you what you do.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You'd come on my show and talk about the first
hundred days small business young men, encourage and really just
give a huge, fired up pep talk for all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Join me with Evan Hayfer, CEO of Black Rifle Coffee Company,
this week on the David Rutherford Show. All right, everybody,
I got to tell you there's probably five people in
this world that when I get an opportunity to sit
down with them, you know, they start giving me the
(00:44):
motivation that I need, the motivation that I seek, the
things that enable me to kind of reevaluate my life,
reevaluate what I'm doing, reevaluate you know, what my mission
is every day. And I'm just beyond blessed to have
one of those those people, one of those men that
(01:06):
I love more than you know much many of my
own family members myself, you know, is mister Evan Hayfirst.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So, Evan brother, is so good to see your face. Man.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
How you doing, man? I'm doing great. Your Your introductions
are like always quite a bit humbling, and like, you know,
Dave and I like just to explain to people we
have like these very deep philosophical conversations that at times,
you know, we'll go into forty different rabbit holes, but
(01:41):
they're they're some of the best conversations that like I
have in my life right period. So and I always
know when when like what things are in the grind,
when things are really hard, like ping Gave, Hey, man,
things are hard, He's like, hey, dude, hanging there, like
let's go, you know, kind of like fires you up.
(02:02):
So I'm super happy. One. I'm super happy, and I
think it's great that everybody gets Dave back, right, So, like, man,
I'll do whatever because like you being out there in
the world having a voice, like talking to men, women,
families around the United States, around the world, Like it's
a really really important mission and whatever I can do
(02:22):
to help. It's the least I can do is spend
a couple of times, a couple hours of my life
talking to my friend Dave. Like that's prett easy. I think.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I think the last one we clocked in Austin when
we saw each other was probably it was like three
and a half hours.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Man, it was shit, yeah that was that was awesome.
All right.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So you know, I think the thing that's really kind
of getting to me lately is is, obviously, you know,
everybody was super pumped and super fired up, and yeah,
Trump's back in office, and then when everything's gonna change
and the Epstein list is coming around, and and and
(02:59):
we're gonna drive bombs on Cartel's heads, and we're gonna
you know, we're gonna clean up, you know, the corruption,
and we're gonna put we're gonna put the Bidening's in
fauci and jail, and you know, and everybody's all riding
this freaking high of like like, oh yeah, this is
Oh that's not just campaign promises, man, that's that's not
(03:21):
you know this that's really gonna happen, you know, dude.
And and I'll tell you what, man, I don't know
about you. You you're a little bit better at your
reluctance to get you know, sucked into the madness of
X or any of the other places.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But because you are running a publicly traded company.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But but you know, for last month or so, man,
the vultures are out going at these people. If to
just start, how would you rate the first hundred days, man,
I mean, what do you what are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, it's I think I like to rewind a little
bit from that and just say, you know, the budget
was already approved in past right, so that's it. That's
his first year. So you know, there's a lot of
people that had this high degree of optimism that we'd
be able to kind of reset government spending on an
accelerated level. But that's just not going to happen because
(04:14):
the budget was already passed and essentially we're already in it.
So there's things that you have to do through executive
order in order to really get like how do we
build next year's budget? How do we cut out the excess? Now?
How do we like And I'm always prolet's let's like
eliminate fraud, recent abuse, let's stop government spending in a
(04:36):
way that's like directly affecting the freedom and the individual
rights of Americans. Like you got to like like take
it all out, right, So, but there does have to
be like a bit of realism in the context of
there's only so much you can do in the big machine.
And I think that the first ninety days is probably
the most active and what I would say is the
(05:00):
accelerated movement of dismantling inappropriate government, fraud, waste, and abuse.
Like in modern history, I can't think of a time
when it's ever been done like this. So it gives
me a ton of hope, like it really does. It
gives me a ton of hope that, like we'll actually
be able to put a dent in the thirty five
thirty six trillion dollar deficit that we're in, you know,
(05:23):
take away the the tax and economic burden of the
American citizen and give give our freedoms back. And I
know that from you know, an individual that's looking at
it just I'm like, I'm participating in politics in a
way of just like information is it as a consumer, right.
(05:45):
So I always know that there's a lot of things
going on under the water line, right, It's like what
we see in what's actually happening underneath the waterline, Like
there's a lot of activity and a lot of things
are taking place. But I find a lot of hope
in the right people surrounding the president. I think he
(06:06):
has he has the right people in place now. I
think he learned a lot from you know, the first administration.
I think he placed a lot of the right people
around him. And the second one, so I would say,
I'm I'm really actually extremely impressed with the amount of
work that's already been done, hopeful that we'll be able
to take out a lot of the fraud, waste, and abuse. Uh.
(06:27):
And I'm really hopeful that we'll be able to see
some of our freedom's return to the American citizens. Like
we have to we have to get we have to
get our liberty back, ye know.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh God, that's the thing for me, man like and
and and it's like it's such a complicated thing, right,
It's like we think about liberty as as oh I
get to wake up, I get to go to my job,
I get to do this. But but nobody takes a
deep dive.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Well maybe not, you know. I just we released a.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Show last week about the judicial system and what we're
seeing there.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And so it's like, wait, wait a minute, you're.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Telling me now that that a guy that's part of
a designated terrorist organization international gang who beat his girlfriend
or wife, who was rightfully deported because he had already
been identified by multiple law enforcement agencies. That guy is
(07:28):
who the other party is going to go and defend
and start having you know, all these crazy rallies about
and AOC's up in front of some massive crowd the
other day, just completely gaslighting the crowd. And that's what
they're getting behind. And so that's the thing that's so
shocking to me is that even with the exposures from
(07:50):
from you know, the what was his name, Big Balls
and Doge, Yeah, Harry Balls.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
There was so even when all that that's happening, like,
you can't deny it.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You can't look at the fact that US A I
D was funding nine out of ten of the news
agencies in Ukraine right to show favorable support of Zelensky.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Even in the midst of all that, people.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Are still kind of asleep as to what what is
taking place. And uh, you know, under the veneer of
what we see on onscreen, do you think that uh
like Pete or Tulsi, do you think or even Robert
you know r F K Junior, do you think they're
running into some challenges.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
On you know, the bureaucrats that had you know, they
their job is to upward their their their jobs typically
when I look at them, right, they're there to uh
seize power in control. Right, So and It's interesting because
(09:02):
Mike Lee is a Utah Senator. I live in Utah,
and Mike had a great, great podcast with Tucker last
year where he talked about the legislative body and their
ability to essentially offload their authorities and responsibilities to these
government agencies. They've given them more power and more authority.
(09:23):
And Mike's much more articulate. I mean, he's a congressional scholar,
he's an attorney. So I can't summarize and do it
any any justice whatsoever, but understanding that, you know, these
federal entities have way more power than they should, and
when you forfeit your responsibilities, what that does is it says, well,
(09:47):
as a politician, you can come back and say, re
elect me and I'll fix the problem.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But then they can go back and blame it on
another federal agency or a federal entity, and it can
go but this time, this time, baby, I'm going to
do it, you know, But this time I'm not. You know,
I'm gonna do it right this time. So it just
kind of perpetuates the cycle of non accountability. And then
as its kind of bureaucrats grow within their power structure,
(10:11):
they've been able to what I would say is like
they'll they'll fortify their positions from different political administrations and entities,
and so I see this is really like putting power
back where it belongs, which is with the people. I
guarantee we don't see it, but I guarantee they are
hitting roadblock after a roadblock. Oh, passive resistance is a
(10:36):
real thing, right, So.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
My thing is like I'm watching, you know, they have it.
It seems like with the two of them in particular,
they're on this like they're on this media camp, not
media camp, but like public relations campaign. Right just yesterday
or today it was, you know, they were doing a
workout together with the Marines and then you see Pizte's
(11:01):
over here working out with team Guys or an ODA team,
and and man, I love that. I think, you know,
that's what you want to feel, like, you want to
feel like, oh yeah, that dude would get into the fight,
she'd get into the fight. I mean my favorite videos
are you know, Tulsi doing the three gun competitions and
just you know, killing it. And so it's like, yeah,
I love that, But what's going on in the Pentagon,
(11:23):
Like what you know, are are you know what, because
there's there's I mean, what is it. We have more
flag officers now than we did during World War Two,
and I'm willing to bet a lot of those guys
are all primed and ready, you know, to to get
out and and and go get their jobs at Lockheed
or or wherever, right and and and so the only
(11:45):
way they do that is to make sure those government
contracts are secured right as you move on. Well, we've
already seen Trump evisceerate usaid we have fifty billion there
they I remember about a couple weeks ago, Pete was
on and he was like, we're really happy to bring
dog in to look.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
At what we're spending money on.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And then it went dark. Man.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So it's like, you know, that push back has got
to be when you walk the halls of that building, man,
Like you're talking about that entrenched bureaucracy, but that entrenched
you know, those entrenched dollars signs that's got.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
To be difficult.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Do you think power power equals you know, budget's equal power, right,
So like like when you're trying to strip budgets, you're
actually stripping power and people aren't going to just roll
over in in acquiesce to that like easily, right. So
this is like a I would say, it's probably like
(12:48):
a baseline psychological condition to most bureaucrats is like, hey,
they believe, and a lot of them are true believers
in whatever program they're running, and they're so insulated from
quite possibly apply to the taxpayer because you know, if
they've grown up professionally in the government. I'm defending anyone.
I'm saying, like I think understanding, and you know, you
(13:10):
and I both come from like that background where you know,
we saw fraud, recent abuse, like firsthand, you know, every day.
Sometimes I tend to think that a lot of people
if they were just exposed to looking at what people
really are hungry for, meaning they if you think about,
(13:32):
you know, a third of our tax or a third
of our salaries and compensation in our lives or are
essentially given to you know, state, local, and federal taxes,
that means one third of our life is been working
for the government, I mean, for a lack of a
better term. So I start to think about that, like, man,
we should be going to work on this budget, going
(13:52):
to work on all of our budgets to try to
reclaim our time. So we're now working for inappropriate, fraudulent
programs that ultimately we don't agree with maybe ethically, morally,
spiritually there we're just not aligned. But we're just forced
to kind of bully up to the bar and pay
(14:13):
the tab for people that believe in a certain program.
And it's insignificant as far as the overall strategic interests
in the United States. So having people kind of one team,
one fight, you know, that are in line, like seeing
them working out with you know, the soldiers and sailors
and airmen, you know, being empathetic to the guys that
(14:35):
are on the front lines doing the job. That to
me says, okay, one, you do feel like you're in
a team, Like we're part of the team. We're making
a difference. It's not disconnected between us and them. It's
like we're in it with you. Let's go to work
not only trying to save lives through strong national national security,
but let's make sure we're not wasting taxpayer dollars. Right.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Oh yeah again, Well, it's also it's paid off.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
It's paid off tremendously too, because look at the recruiting numbers. Yeah,
I mean, the recruiting numbers are skyrockets. So it's like,
you know, I'm like, yes, yes, In fact, I keep
hammering because dude, I don't know what it is, man,
it's got to be you Army motherfuckers. But he was
just after like workout after workout after workout with with Army,
(15:23):
you know, different units, and every time I'd be like,
when are you gonna be with that sw I just
kept sniping the second death because I was like, hey man,
I want a little bit of that who y'ah going too,
Like I want you to like I want like we
need to bring dudes into our thing too.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And so that's like really positive for me.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I feel a profound sense of resurgence and that pride
and that stuff that you all you and I talk
about that stuff that drives us in.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
But I also know, you know from some friends like
all right, what's happening? Like what is what are the
next steps? You know, what what is going to take place?
In particular the one for me and this.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Is you know, you and I had a talk about
this before. And then you know, I think you know
your last time you were on with with Joe rogan
Man and that that piece you did about you know,
if the cartels get labeled or designated as terrorists?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
What does this look like? How does this change?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And and and you know, this is the thing that
I think one of the most significant thing that as
Americans want wanted. It's tangible, right, and so they just
designated what was it that ten mile between the border.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Recently they've militarized it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So you know, are because I think my favorite line
was yeah, once a Tier one unit.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Is coming after you that that's a bad day.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Right, So are you waiting for something like that or
are you you know, are you like a lot more? Well,
how what's your mindset as you as a citizen, Like
what do you want to see first as a citizen
and then you know from your background as an operator,
what what what do you hope is taking place?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Well, I think primarily number one is I want them
to do their job, which is like keep America safe,
and that that means like what we have to do
I think from like a national security position, strategic national
security position is if we have people that are you know,
importing illegally importing drugs, you know, trafficking people and this
(17:30):
is not only illegal activity, this is immoral, unjustified wrong
behavior that we can't just turn a blind eye and
say that it's not going on. We have to do
something about it. We have to identify first and foremost
is like identifying you have a problem, right, Is that
like step one? And like this the steps of recovery
is like, hey, let's identify we have a problem. Right,
(17:52):
It's like you know, it's like the steps of recovery.
So for me, the way I look at it is
like step one, we have a problem, to identify the
problems and then you have to look at them from
like macro to micro elements as far as impact, and
then go to work on the big macro elements and
then work your way down to the micro elements. But
you have to have measurable impact. So what I'm actually
(18:12):
waiting for is the results. I want to see numbers.
I don't want to see lip service. I don't want
to see anymore like you.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Don't want to see Christy no holden, yeah, christ yeah yeah.
And what are the metrics you're looking for? What do
you want to see? How many terrorists, how much money
they've lost? The I mean, obviously the inflow of illegals
in the human trafficking ring.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's pummeled.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I just saw something this morning that this time last
year was like three hundred and seventy thousand for April
and now it's like seven thousand or March.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It was March numbers.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And so I mean, that's a that's a huge tangible number, right,
that's a tangible So we see that taking place. But
we we also know and and there's a there's a
few people out there that are really doing great coverage.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Oscar Blue, Uh what's I forget his last name?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Movie he's out there with Ben Burke, whom on top
he used to yeah that, and he's doing his The
stuff he's covering now, which is unbelievable, is that that
we've shut off, right, the human smuggling operation. And then
you know, now we just saw that monster half a
billion busts down in Florida. That cash yeah, was out
(19:31):
there promoting in Pambonai. We now they're they're tampering off
the inflow of fentanyl and drugs. What's gonna take place
in Mexico in these cities and it's gonna be mass chaos,
It's violence for you know. So are we gonna are
we looking for? I mean, is there is there a
bout account number that we we need to see as Americans.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I think that. I think it's part of it.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
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(20:41):
I mean, is there about account number that we need
to see as Americans?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I think it's part of it. I think it's you know,
dollars are just the measuring point as far as like
the economic success. So I think you actually have to
measure the microeconomy that's associated with any black market economy,
which is basically what we have. Right, So if we
look at illegal activity as a whole, and then you
have to look at it as Okay, this is a
(21:07):
black market illegal activity economy. Okay, now let's take a
look at the economic impact. We have to say if
the black market economy I'm using like general terms here,
but the gross domestic product of you know, the Mexican
cartel is X, and we put a dent in it
of y like that means something like it's substantive because
we've taken away their ability to economically incentive people that
(21:31):
are conducting illegal activity inside our borders regardless of it. So,
but we have to go to work, I think is
triage and priority against what are you to be the
biggest impacts into affecting their economy, because that is the
crippling point to any of these industries. You start crippling
their economy now you're taking away jobs. When you're taking
(21:52):
away jobs and opportunity inside a black market activity, that
means people don't have economic mobility. They can't move up
if there isn't any jobs, so they're going to go
seek jobs employment in other places. Because it's a human condition.
You have to have money in order to exchange that
money for goods and services to live. So will they
flood out and Ultimately, will they conform into what I
(22:15):
would say is a civilian population standard economy basis in
like Mexico, Guatemala, l Salvador, like we'll just call it
South America. The answer is yes, that's going to take
a while, right, So that's where I think import export,
and then understanding within not only our borders but this
hemisphere providing the right economic incentives. I'm not talking about like,
(22:38):
you know, giving them money. I'm talking about how do we.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Building factories creating jobs? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, So and then I'm really like, I mean, who
am I right to talk about this other than like
I'm looking at it from economic impact, direct results as
far as shrinking the overall economy that's directly impacting our
society and negation way going to work on the big
pieces and then targeting the small pieces as we continue
(23:06):
to go. But right now, in the first four years,
I think it's really important to have substantive economic damage
to illegal activity that's coming in from all around all
around the world. So if we're talking about targeting very
specific gang activity like INS thirteen or whatever it is,
what is their mean economic engine, Like is it drugs?
(23:27):
Like I would imagine it is right. So that's where
I think we have to focus our intent. Big organizations,
big economic impact. What are their drivers? How do we
be very precise? And that's not necessarily about body count,
that's about keeping drugs out of our country, right, keeping
them out because that provides real substantive economic impact because
(23:50):
where are they going to take it? Where are they
going to sell it? I might be oversimplifying, I'm sure,
I am no.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I remember.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I think a lot of people that when they do
face this issue, they they hear the things on you know, TV,
and we're designating them terrorists, and you know, just like
everybody because I don't know, last twenty five years at
a GIWA, they're going to imagine like a bunch of uh,
you know, unit guys showing up with their you know,
(24:18):
their their headcams and just smoking three hundred cartel members
of you know, with their you know, doing their dances
with all their you know, tricked out stuff on, and
like that's what people are imagining, that this is what
this is about. When they when they don't even stop
for a minute and say, well, how much influence does
(24:38):
the cartels have in the Mexican government, how much and
you know, influence do they have? How many cartel leaders
actually own predominant legitimate.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Businesses in Mexico? And you know, I don't.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I mean, it's just and then you know the collapse
and what that looks like. I mean, obviously there's still
a market, maybe the market moves and goes in a
different direction you're or Southeast Asia. But but now it's
it's the market's cut in half. Now there's going to
be these civil wars that emerge, which we're that we
already saw what five six years ago. I remember Lara
Logan being down on the border and being on the
(25:14):
top of a roof and the I forget the Homeland
guy she was with, is there's a full firefight going on,
you know in the town right, Oh, you know, And
I think it's I think it's good for people to hear,
you know, that kind of distilling down to hey, you
got to focus on the on the bigger things first.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Well, and I think that's part of it, right, But
there's also kind of what I would say is a
physics truth, which is energy begets energy, So violent energy
begets violent energy. And so the more we plug in
with violent energy, quite possibly, the more violent energy we're
gonna have to face here. So what my biggest concern
(25:58):
is is that violent energy conducted across or in you know,
South America, Mexico, wherever where we're at, we'll end up
here in affecting civilians and that would be the wrong
equation for us to not play out from a second
and third order effect. So protect the protect the borders,
protect people. What I would say is bad actors from
(26:19):
entering the country itself, go to work on their economy
to collapse. They're essentially the pillars of the cornerstone of
the legal activity or the black market. And then of
course there's going to have to be I think a
kinetic environment in there too. But we do have to
protect the homeland and make sure that we don't start
that too early because we don't want the What I
(26:40):
would say is the violence spillover to affect innocent American
lives here.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That would be I think that that's genius.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I mean, that's that's a legitimate, well thought out evaluation
is and that hopefully gives people a little bit of
pause to say, oh, yeah, we're going to go to
the war with the cartels, but it's all going to
be in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I mean, that's a brilliant way to.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Kind of put people back in a position where they
can think a little bit more critically about it. For me,
you know, the thing is is, yeah, we've had what
roughly one hundred thousand plus deaths from fatanyl every year
since COVID, right, more deaths than World War two. Right,
that's the craziest number number one thing killing young people
(27:23):
eighteen to you know what twenty six or twenty nine
or something like that, and just reacin have it well.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And this is.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Something that I think you and I are always focused on, man,
every time that I'm around you or with you, we
always kind of go towards this idea.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Is that young men.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Right now, right, they're with kind of the the lack
of courage, I think, or and that's not all on themselves.
It's I think a lot of it's been driven out
of them for a whole different types of social issues.
But like you know, we stop that those draws uggs, right,
we get those young men you know, out of drugs,
(28:03):
out or access to drugs, and then then it's like okay,
now it's cool to go back into military again, and
all right, or go to law enforcement. Let's like law
enforcements looking good again too. Let's let's, you know, take
the handcuffs off them, let them do those jobs.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We still have the challenges with a lot of.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
DA's, but you know, this, this gap, I think for us,
provides this wonderful opportunity, in particular for young men to
start to say, all right, man, now I can I
can get my mojo back. Now I can, I can start,
I can start going. So in your mind, you know what,
(28:40):
where does that courage begin to re emerge in young
men right now?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Well, I think it kind of starts with It starts
with the country. It starts with our leaders. They have
to earn trust back that they're not going to put
guys like you and I and endless war for Darthur
Brum and Raytheon and Haliburton number one. Uh, you got
to earn back trust that we're just going to flippidly
(29:07):
send are our children now right? Our children off to
wars for profit? Because I kind of I distill different
things now down to like simple truths, which is, there
are wars of choice, and there are wars of maintaining sovereignty,
which is that in those you don't have a choice.
(29:28):
You have to maintain the sovereignty of the country. So
when you have a war of choice, which is one
of the issues that we've seen over the last several decades,
because these these are wars that we have fought based
on we've decided or somebody the decider decided right, right,
they We're going to send young men and women off
(29:49):
to die in foreign countries with no success criteria. There's
quite literally a negative strategic gain in the long term
effects of it. So it starts with a clear understanding
and really you have to have leaders that are not
(30:10):
willing to what I would say is squander courage because
it's the It is the most precious thing that I
think men can encompass embody and ultimately utilize in their life.
Like being a courageous man is I think one of
the finest virtues. Quite possibly. I don't know if you
(30:30):
can be wise without being courageous, To be honest with you,
I think it's kind of a foundational element. But service
to our country should never be squandered by our leaders.
And what I've consistently had a hard time with over
and over is that did our leaders actually have us
(30:56):
the best our interests and did they did they sacrifice
our courage and our time and our lives because of
a personal interest or belief. So I definitely had this
issue with a lot of the neocons that got us
into Iraq because I've spent a huge percentage of my
time in Iraq. You know, I don't think guys like
(31:19):
Paul Wolfowitz, w Cheney, Rumsfeld Runny, I don't like first
and foremost, I think you have to be a man
of courage in order to send men off to die.
Like so, I think there's a distinct tunes. I think
there's a distinct difference between you know, people like to
(31:40):
pull back in history and look at different men and
women both actually that have made decisions to send people
off to die for our country or a cause. And
like there's very distinct differences between Vietnam and World War Two, Iraq,
Afghanistan and World War Two. I mean, we can't continue
to rest America's image on the sacrifice of the men
(32:04):
in World War Two. That was a choice. We didn't
have a choice. That was a war of national sovereignty.
We had to maintain our national sovereignty, and the men
that were leading us through those times I mean even
if you look at you know, Truman for the back half.
I mean, Truman was a decorated World War One veteran,
(32:25):
you know, post that in the Cold War, I mean
Eisenhower obviously led the Allied invasion. Winston Churchill, like, I
don't know if there was a there was a time
in his life leading into World War Two that that
guy wasn't giving a speech that was directly at a
front to the Nazi encroachment on civil liberties and the
Western world. Right. So he was a man of courage,
(32:47):
not only physically he had personified courage as a soldier,
but then he did it every day through his speeches,
through his acts of virtue. And I'm not lyingizing anyone.
Everybody has their faults. We're all human, right, So you're
not saying they're perfect. Everyone is flawed. But I don't
(33:08):
necessarily know if the man that sent us to these
wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were men of courage and
women of courage. I think from a theoretical academic thought process,
they like wolf of Witz is an extremely intelligent guy,
(33:29):
but I don't think they actually they don't understand the
real sacrifice, nor did they they didn't understand the Middle East.
They didn't understand Iraq, and they didn't they don't have
the tangible experience of the blood and sacrifice of men
in the sands of a foreign country to really understand
what they were doing. They didn't truly understand it. So
(33:52):
I think you have to real back trust gave. Like
number one, You're not going to send people off to
die in a dumb, fucking war.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And that's what scares the hell out of me.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I mean, I know you're paying attention to it like
I do, but you know, now all of a sudden,
it's like you start to see those old school mentalities
start to you know, move that radical and where is
it going. It's right back on Iran, And you know,
I wanted to get your thoughts. So let's you know,
if if some I mean I don't think it's a stretch,
(34:25):
but if if something begins to turn the tides of
you know, the the administrative focus towards recognizing that Iran
as a threat or whatever, and we get into a
kinetic war with them, it's not going to be like
any of the other ones. I mean, this one's going
to be could be devastating and has grander implications globally
(34:47):
as well too. But what I see in my head
as I see another, you know, three million American kids,
at least in their minds, are going to Roger up
and go fight over and and the deserts of of
southern Iran and Iraq, and you know over in Afghanistan.
I mean, it's just it's madness to me. But there's
(35:08):
a sensation that I think is building that that's a possibility.
Do you do you think that that might be true?
But there's a sensation that I think is building that
that's a possibility. Do you do you think that that
might be true?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I've learned over you know, the last couple of decades,
and never question the arrogance, their stupidity of our political leadership, which, like,
to be quite honest with you, I mean I I
I want to anytime now I hear the drum beats
of war, I am highly skeptical. And the first question
(35:50):
I have to ask is is this a war of necessity? Will? Will?
Does Iran have the capacity to eliminate our national sovereignty?
The answer is no, absolutely not no. So that's the
number one principle of having what I would what I
(36:10):
what I would define as a virtuous war, because you
don't have a choice. When you have a choice, and
I'm not saying that every Like, there's a difference between
having a position and a strategic interest in eliminating threats
to the United States. That's not necessarily a hot war
against another nation state, Right, that's pursuing people that have
(36:33):
a a that are affecting your national security and ultimately
your economic interest internationally. That's not like getting yourself into
a hot war with what is it, the third largest
army in the in the world. We have we I
think there are a lot of different options out there
(36:53):
that we could exhaust before this went into some type
of hot war exchange. I think it would be extremely detrimental. One.
I don't know if the American public can handle another war, right,
I mean, we've been at war, but we just ended
the Afghan War after twenty plus years, Like to go
(37:14):
to Iran would be I think it would be a
really big mistake.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I really, I just I mean for me on a
personal level, it's like every every outcome is the antithesis
of what the outcome that I was.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Led to believe was going to be.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The outcome, right, all of them, and you can go
I mean, you can go back, you know, I mean
Vietnam even before that, I mean probably, I mean, and
it's like.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Now you're trying to pitch us another one.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And I because you know, as I've shared with you deeply,
like one of my greatest concerns is that we have
squandered that eternal flame of courage in young men and
and this could break the will completely.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You know. It's it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I've left watching the like Johnny on the Street interviews
and all that, and I recently watched one of of
of somebody over in England, right, and they were it's
when Starmer was you know, projecting, you know, America's leaving
Ukraine behind and WEENI as Englishmen need to get behind this,
(38:24):
and you know, they were saying we're out a little bit,
like we're gonna put boots on the ground and that
type of thing. And this guy was on the street
and he's like, well, do you believe in what Starmer's position? Oh?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, his position Ukraine is great?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
All right? Would you would you sign up as soon
as they declared war and go, well, you know what
I mean, Well, you know that's not technically happening. So
but but so, you know, I still think America, you know,
American men are the greatest fighters on a planet.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I think they always will be.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
However, if you trick them again and you put these
young lads, you know, in one more time, I mean,
you know, there are catastrophic consequences that inevitably will come
when the when the crux of the majority of the
people you're counting on to project that power no longer
(39:23):
feel uh uh, what is it feel that sense of
imbued patriotism to go fight, wage whatever war they ask
us to do again.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, love for country
is wine trust, Right, It's like love and trust. I think,
really they're they're where they're they're honestly built on each other. Right,
So the foundation of our love for our families and
our wives and is built on the fact that especially
I think when we're talking about our wives, right, it's
(39:56):
like trust, right, respect trust. To have a profound amount
of patriotism, you also have to have a profound amount
of trust in your political officials, your elected officials. And
if we go to war again, I just I see
that as it's completely eroding the trust in our elected officials,
(40:19):
because whether or not you can thoroughly intellectualize something doesn't
mean you can't feel it. Because I don't know about you,
but after a few years in Iraq, I could feel it.
I can't like articulate. I was still trying to like
really provide myself the the what I would say is
the intellectual effort to try to like keep keeping the
(40:40):
fight right where I think that there's a significant amount
of there's been a significant amount of trust lost, and
you know, I don't. I just don't see a world
where we can do this again without sacrifice. Seeing the
trust within our fellow countrymen, especially the new generational war fighters,
(41:06):
like this might to your point, this might be the
death nail of being able to recruit people into the
military because there will be a complete deterioration of trust
within the American political system.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Aymn, wow, unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
All right, last question for you before and then we
will I do have one more patriot question for everybody
after that, but that's a fun one, so I'll get
fun and serious.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
But this is the last question.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
All right.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Obviously, you know you run a public company.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
The whole tariffs thing, we had a really brilliant young economist.
On the other day, guy was really smart, talked about
on shoring up seven percent year over year, talked about
how actually the economy is doing really good, you know,
and that tariffs was just you know, one more thing
what the old guard media is trying to light up
(42:01):
to destroy any semblance of success within the Trump administration.
As a person that is highly engaged in in in
the American economy, you know, are you are you pleased
with where we're going right now in the economy and
(42:22):
you know, where do you see uh the economy going
and you know the next six months to a year?
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Well, I think you know, I am. I am pleased
that we're having some type of what I would say
is a balancing conditions between other countries and import export,
and specifically in tariffs, like we have to make it.
What I would say is we have to have the
appropriate economic incentives to encourage businesses and small businesses to
keep manufacturing and hire people within it Like the United States,
(42:55):
we have to and you know, we've had such a
long run of outshore or offshoring a lot of the
industries too, specifically to one of our greatest strategic threats,
I mean China, which doesn't make any sense by the way,
like there's no there's a reality I think that we
(43:15):
could all live in where we're The only reality I
can figure out is like, okay, there's a codependency economically
from the two main military superpowers in the world. Well okay,
well now if we decouple those, then we'll both collapse
our economies, which nobody would want to do, right, but
(43:36):
just based on the fact that like humans mostly like
they do want economic security on both sides. So to
be a political zealot, whether you're a communist or a democrat,
it would also mean a forfeiture of some type of
your political ideology that in that regard. So it's not
only economic, but it's also political, and they're tiede The
(43:56):
thing that I see is there does have to be
a balance. And one of the greatest things that I
think we've been able to do over the last three
months is now we have a really complex conversation around
what do these mean? What is it reciprocity as far
as like tariffs from China to terifs in the United States,
tariffs internationally, how do we need to look at them?
(44:19):
But really I think the macro conversation is how do
we directly support in economically encourage Americans to be in
these manufacturing jobs and or these jobs that we've traditionally
in the last several decades outsourced to other countries, because
(44:40):
it not only protects the country economically if we maintain
our logistics in our supply chain within the borders, because
as we saw during COVID, when the borders shut down
and we don't actually have a stable supply chain, it
directly affects our economy. And if we think back to
the four five trillion dollars that we had to that
(45:01):
we reinjected or rejected back into the American economy to
artificially prop it up over the course of COVID, we
should have learned a few things over that, which is,
there are a few things that we really have to
just make bomb proof from a supply chain, logistics and
manufacturing capacity. We have to maintain for national security some
form of assemblance of our supply chain and tech technology
(45:26):
manufacturing we do like we just have to do from
a strategic interest perspective. Economically, it makes us more powerful
because now we can start to export more and we
were more competitive in the international workforce or international workplace economy.
But from an individual level, I'm highly encouraged by it. Yes,
(45:46):
I understand that coffee prices are going to go up
based on the impact got it. Okay, coffee has been
underpriced for fifty years. Wow, it was at its lowest
point like like last year in modern history. And we're
consuming more coffee than we ever have, and yet the
(46:09):
coffee prices are low. And a lot of that is
built on the type of farming that is being conducted
in Brazil for mass manufacturing of agriculture products, specific with
coffee is driving down artificially driving down the price. So
if we have to pay a little bit more for coffee,
I mean people walk into coffee shops around the United
(46:29):
States and pay four dollars every day for drip coffee.
Typically Okay, well you get a lot more than you know,
for a ten to twelve dollars back of coffee, you
can have eighteen to twenty cups of coffee, right, So
that just means that you have to shift your purchasing
behavior because if you're going to four to five dollars
(46:50):
drip coffee and you've got to pay an extra dollar
in the grocery store to stabilize and reinforce what I
would say is an appropriate strategically a lined supply chain
that maintains our sovereignty. Like, that's important. So I think
it's economically of interest in the United States. I also
(47:10):
think it dovetails directly into maintaining your national sovereignty. So
I am highly encouraged that this tariff conversation will one
at least start the multi country debate and we're going
to land in a much better spot in this negotiation.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Awesome, man, I love to hear you talk about it. Man.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
You know, it's funny, man, when you start to think
about commodities and you start to think about how integrated
they are into the purchasing mindset of everyday life. Right,
Coffees at the pinnacle of them, right, And I mean,
you know, and I just to see the way you're
able to summarize it and expand on it on a
(47:55):
for a grander economic stability, it's really cool and sate
your thoughts on that, buddy.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
To add one more thing to that, I think we
should always be thinking about our national security and our
strategic interest as well as our economic interests. Right, So
it's just kind of always been a head scratcher of
the last twenty years. Why we have been so We've
capitulated so much of our economics to China, and we've
(48:26):
ultimately directly contributed to the build of their economy, which
then lends itself to them having a larger military and
a much bigger military scope and more strategic authority that
is directly misaligned with our long term strategic goals. So
why are we outsourcing big economic pieces of our big
(48:49):
pieces of our our economic condition in America to our
stratetrategic foe. That to me, even if we just look
at like, let's just cut the world in half and
at this hemisphere for like two minutes, Okay, if we
just look at like Mexico, if we were actively encouraging
(49:10):
industry in Mexico, would we have such a border crisis?
If there was more economic mobility and advancement, if people
had opportunities to go to work and high paying manufacturing
jobs just in Mexico, would there be such a border crisis?
I think not. Listen, I'm not an economist. I'm just
kind of a guy that, like, you know, roast coffee
(49:30):
and hire a few people like I can pontificate about
this all day long. But if you have more economic mobility,
more jobs within our own hemisphere, now we don't have
to ship those jobs and our supply chain of manufacturing
out to our most strategic fuff like that to me,
seems it's easier to get goods in and out. We're
(49:50):
aligned with the people that we're sharing our borders with.
From a national security perspective, they're not our enemies. Okay,
there's more to gain from building even what I would
say is is is not only internal economics, but also
making economically advantageous for our friends to do business with us,
(50:13):
not any that.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
I think that's the the key to a global success
as it is, right, I think the real, the real
thing is what I'm a big supporter of, is Hey,
let's just make it more more fair. Right, Let's let's
enable it's enable our goods and services to have a
much more competitive edge around the world and instead of
(50:38):
just being the overall consumer of all things. And I
thank you for sharing that, man, I think that really
helps people because I know when I'm on the road obviously,
you know, I just spent a couple of days up
in New Jersey. I talked to probably I don't know,
maybe like four hundred people in two days and had
(50:59):
some really amazing conversations with these these advisors who are
you know, talking about the conversations they're having with their people,
with the people that you know are have invested in
they are, they're they're managing their portfolios. And it's like
last week or whenever, you know, when the tariff thing
hit and the market dumped, like people were losing their
(51:20):
fricking minds because they aren't thinking about it in the
in the scope that you just described it as. So
I think it's incredibly valuable. I think, you know, even
though you are, you know, just kind of an old
knuckle dragon coffee guy, I think your your wisdom does
have an impact for people.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
So thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Buddy of mine, he always gives me this advice. He's like,
take a deep breath. Things are never as good or
as bad as you think they are. And it's like
this whole conversation last week that like the economy went
up and down, you're on a roller coaster ride, and
it's like, okay, take a deep breath, Like, okay, what's
in the long term? And I think that was the
(52:05):
uh you know part of the narrative, which is, yeah,
there's some short term pain for some long term benefit
and what what do you say? You think you got
to take your medicine a little bit and like, hey,
he didn't get us here, by the way, Like this
was a series of different presidents starting at Nixon that
ultimately landed us here. So like, you know, don't kill
(52:29):
the messenger when that's kay, listen, this is this is
for the long term good.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
For for your children or for your grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Man.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
That's that's the way.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
That's the way I'm constantly framing this whole thing is like, man,
is the pain right now going to benefit for the
positives of my children when they're out there starting businesses,
joining the military, working for a corporation, you know, uh,
poorn coffee, whatever it is. Man, how do we set
(53:00):
it up for them? That's that's our you know, we're
the stewards of the future, right and it's I think
it's just critical that that everybody understands and takes that
on their backs.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Man, you can't. You can't saddle the future with thirty
five trillion dollars a deck, like you just can't do
it like that's it's it's immoral for us not to
do something about it, and ultimately that could be our
greatest act of courage, is like going to work making
sure that we don't saddle our the next generations with
(53:33):
so much debt that they're going to spend half their
lives working for the federal government. That's because we chose
to loan money at the tune of trillions of dollars,
because we can balance a budget and we can stop
fraudulent spending. Right, like these are just like you know,
I calculated it a while back. There's we'll call it
fifteen trillion dollars just between the Global War on Terror
(53:55):
and COVID. Right, So we started the g WATT at
just about five trillion dollars in debt, and then we
exited Afghanistan with the thirty four trillion dollars in debt.
So like all of those trillions of dollars and none
of which was was spent on building American infrastructure, you know,
(54:19):
rebuilding our education or high speed railways or I could
think of like a thousand different initiatives. Quite we would
have been more of an economic advantage than like synking
it into the soil in Central Asia or the Middle East.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I agree, brother, I agree, dude. Love seeing your face. Man,
thank you so much for coming on. I can't wait
till the next time. I promise you.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Next time it's going to be with you out there,
all right, Buddies.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
Yeah, come out anytime. Dave.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
You know I love you, Boddy, love you too, Man,
God bless you, brother. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
The following is a preview for additional content only available
on Patreon. One of the things that we're hoping on
Patreon that we can do for everybody, especially the young
people that are coming, is just give them some little
bit of wisdom.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
And so there's two main things that I want.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
I would love it if you could just kind of.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Just pontificate a little bit more on is is one,
where can people find courage in themselves? Like, what are
the activities, what are the things, what can they read?
What are the the basics right that that invoke a
grander sense of being courageous? Right.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
That's the first half.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
And then the second half is once they discover it,
once they start to feel it, how can then they
invest that courage into something tangible that that that validates
the effort itself, that that that continue, that allows the
courage to continue.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
It's a great question. You know, you and I have
talked about this a lot, so a lot of things
come to mind, which is there's a falsehood that's kind
of built on Hollywood that you know, people just average
joke and like roll out of bed, their feet hit
the floor, and then there all of a sudden going
to become courage they're courageous, and that just doesn't exist.
(56:21):
It's a practiced art, it's a lifetime endeavor and it
never ends. Actually, so you have to kind of sign
yourself up for the individual work that is going to
last for the rest of your life. Because I used
to talk about this, you know, twenty years ago. You
have to seek out challenges that intentionally drive fear back
into your heart, and then you have to pursue those
(56:43):
things with practice, discipline, organized effort, and you have to
work through the problem in a very methodical crawl, quall, lock,
run phase. And then you have to practice being scared, which.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Is to hear the rest of this incredible interview with
my great friend Evan Hayfer, go over to our Patreon
site where you can hear us talk a lot about
some ideas that will enhance courage and really propel you
to find your purpose in life.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Also, we really want.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
To announce on May thirty first, We're going to have
a live motivational event, an hour of discussing the whole
core concepts behind.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
What I've learned over the last thirty years.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Then we'll open it up to an hour long Q
and A where you can ask me anything you want
about motivation, performance, and all of the other topics that
I've been working on for a.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Long, long time.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Join us for two dollars a month on our Patreon
at David Rutherford Show.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
Thank you.
What would you do when you weren't running a publicly
traded company or flying around and MiG jets for fun.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'll tell you what you do.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You'd come on my show and talk about the first
hundred days small business young men, encourage and really just
give a huge, fired up pep talk for all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Join me with Evan Hayfer, CEO of Black Rifle Coffee Company,
this week on the David Rutherford Show. All right, everybody,
I got to tell you there's probably five people in
this world that when I get an opportunity to sit
down with them, you know, they start giving me the
(00:44):
motivation that I need, the motivation that I seek, the
things that enable me to kind of reevaluate my life,
reevaluate what I'm doing, reevaluate you know, what my mission
is every day. And I'm just beyond blessed to have
one of those those people, one of those men that
(01:06):
I love more than you know much many of my
own family members myself, you know, is mister Evan Hayfirst.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So, Evan brother, is so good to see your face. Man.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
How you doing, man? I'm doing great. Your Your introductions
are like always quite a bit humbling, and like, you know,
Dave and I like just to explain to people we
have like these very deep philosophical conversations that at times,
you know, we'll go into forty different rabbit holes, but
(01:41):
they're they're some of the best conversations that like I
have in my life right period. So and I always
know when when like what things are in the grind,
when things are really hard, like ping Gave, Hey, man,
things are hard, He's like, hey, dude, hanging there, like
let's go, you know, kind of like fires you up.
(02:02):
So I'm super happy. One. I'm super happy, and I
think it's great that everybody gets Dave back, right, So, like, man,
I'll do whatever because like you being out there in
the world having a voice, like talking to men, women,
families around the United States, around the world, Like it's
a really really important mission and whatever I can do
(02:22):
to help. It's the least I can do is spend
a couple of times, a couple hours of my life
talking to my friend Dave. Like that's prett easy. I think.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I think the last one we clocked in Austin when
we saw each other was probably it was like three
and a half hours.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Man, it was shit, yeah that was that was awesome.
All right.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So you know, I think the thing that's really kind
of getting to me lately is is, obviously, you know,
everybody was super pumped and super fired up, and yeah,
Trump's back in office, and then when everything's gonna change
and the Epstein list is coming around, and and and
(02:59):
we're gonna drive bombs on Cartel's heads, and we're gonna
you know, we're gonna clean up, you know, the corruption,
and we're gonna put we're gonna put the Bidening's in
fauci and jail, and you know, and everybody's all riding
this freaking high of like like, oh yeah, this is
Oh that's not just campaign promises, man, that's that's not
(03:21):
you know this that's really gonna happen, you know, dude.
And and I'll tell you what, man, I don't know
about you. You you're a little bit better at your
reluctance to get you know, sucked into the madness of
X or any of the other places.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
But because you are running a publicly traded company.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But but you know, for last month or so, man,
the vultures are out going at these people. If to
just start, how would you rate the first hundred days, man,
I mean, what do you what are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, it's I think I like to rewind a little
bit from that and just say, you know, the budget
was already approved in past right, so that's it. That's
his first year. So you know, there's a lot of
people that had this high degree of optimism that we'd
be able to kind of reset government spending on an
accelerated level. But that's just not going to happen because
(04:14):
the budget was already passed and essentially we're already in it.
So there's things that you have to do through executive
order in order to really get like how do we
build next year's budget? How do we cut out the excess? Now?
How do we like And I'm always prolet's let's like
eliminate fraud, recent abuse, let's stop government spending in a
(04:36):
way that's like directly affecting the freedom and the individual
rights of Americans. Like you got to like like take
it all out, right, So, but there does have to
be like a bit of realism in the context of
there's only so much you can do in the big machine.
And I think that the first ninety days is probably
the most active and what I would say is the
(05:00):
accelerated movement of dismantling inappropriate government, fraud, waste, and abuse.
Like in modern history, I can't think of a time
when it's ever been done like this. So it gives
me a ton of hope, like it really does. It
gives me a ton of hope that, like we'll actually
be able to put a dent in the thirty five
thirty six trillion dollar deficit that we're in, you know,
(05:23):
take away the the tax and economic burden of the
American citizen and give give our freedoms back. And I
know that from you know, an individual that's looking at
it just I'm like, I'm participating in politics in a
way of just like information is it as a consumer, right.
(05:45):
So I always know that there's a lot of things
going on under the water line, right, It's like what
we see in what's actually happening underneath the waterline, Like
there's a lot of activity and a lot of things
are taking place. But I find a lot of hope
in the right people surrounding the president. I think he
(06:06):
has he has the right people in place now. I
think he learned a lot from you know, the first administration.
I think he placed a lot of the right people
around him. And the second one, so I would say,
I'm I'm really actually extremely impressed with the amount of
work that's already been done, hopeful that we'll be able
to take out a lot of the fraud, waste, and abuse. Uh.
(06:27):
And I'm really hopeful that we'll be able to see
some of our freedom's return to the American citizens. Like
we have to we have to get we have to
get our liberty back, ye know.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh God, that's the thing for me, man like and
and and it's like it's such a complicated thing, right,
It's like we think about liberty as as oh I
get to wake up, I get to go to my job,
I get to do this. But but nobody takes a
deep dive.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Well maybe not, you know. I just we released a.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Show last week about the judicial system and what we're
seeing there.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And so it's like, wait, wait a minute, you're.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Telling me now that that a guy that's part of
a designated terrorist organization international gang who beat his girlfriend
or wife, who was rightfully deported because he had already
been identified by multiple law enforcement agencies. That guy is
(07:28):
who the other party is going to go and defend
and start having you know, all these crazy rallies about
and AOC's up in front of some massive crowd the
other day, just completely gaslighting the crowd. And that's what
they're getting behind. And so that's the thing that's so
shocking to me is that even with the exposures from
(07:50):
from you know, the what was his name, Big Balls
and Doge, Yeah, Harry Balls.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
There was so even when all that that's happening, like,
you can't deny it.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You can't look at the fact that US A I
D was funding nine out of ten of the news
agencies in Ukraine right to show favorable support of Zelensky.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Even in the midst of all that, people.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Are still kind of asleep as to what what is
taking place. And uh, you know, under the veneer of
what we see on onscreen, do you think that uh
like Pete or Tulsi, do you think or even Robert
you know r F K Junior, do you think they're
running into some challenges.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
On you know, the bureaucrats that had you know, they
their job is to upward their their their jobs typically
when I look at them, right, they're there to uh
seize power in control. Right, So and It's interesting because
(09:02):
Mike Lee is a Utah Senator. I live in Utah,
and Mike had a great, great podcast with Tucker last
year where he talked about the legislative body and their
ability to essentially offload their authorities and responsibilities to these
government agencies. They've given them more power and more authority.
(09:23):
And Mike's much more articulate. I mean, he's a congressional scholar,
he's an attorney. So I can't summarize and do it
any any justice whatsoever, but understanding that, you know, these
federal entities have way more power than they should, and
when you forfeit your responsibilities, what that does is it says, well,
(09:47):
as a politician, you can come back and say, re
elect me and I'll fix the problem.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But then they can go back and blame it on
another federal agency or a federal entity, and it can
go but this time, this time, baby, I'm going to
do it, you know, But this time I'm not. You know,
I'm gonna do it right this time. So it just
kind of perpetuates the cycle of non accountability. And then
as its kind of bureaucrats grow within their power structure,
(10:11):
they've been able to what I would say is like
they'll they'll fortify their positions from different political administrations and entities,
and so I see this is really like putting power
back where it belongs, which is with the people. I
guarantee we don't see it, but I guarantee they are
hitting roadblock after a roadblock. Oh, passive resistance is a
(10:36):
real thing, right, So.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
My thing is like I'm watching, you know, they have it.
It seems like with the two of them in particular,
they're on this like they're on this media camp, not
media camp, but like public relations campaign. Right just yesterday
or today it was, you know, they were doing a
workout together with the Marines and then you see Pizte's
(11:01):
over here working out with team Guys or an ODA team,
and and man, I love that. I think, you know,
that's what you want to feel, like, you want to
feel like, oh yeah, that dude would get into the fight,
she'd get into the fight. I mean my favorite videos
are you know, Tulsi doing the three gun competitions and
just you know, killing it. And so it's like, yeah,
I love that, But what's going on in the Pentagon,
(11:23):
Like what you know, are are you know what, because
there's there's I mean, what is it. We have more
flag officers now than we did during World War Two,
and I'm willing to bet a lot of those guys
are all primed and ready, you know, to to get
out and and and go get their jobs at Lockheed
or or wherever, right and and and so the only
(11:45):
way they do that is to make sure those government
contracts are secured right as you move on. Well, we've
already seen Trump evisceerate usaid we have fifty billion there
they I remember about a couple weeks ago, Pete was
on and he was like, we're really happy to bring
dog in to look.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
At what we're spending money on.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And then it went dark. Man.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
So it's like, you know, that push back has got
to be when you walk the halls of that building, man,
Like you're talking about that entrenched bureaucracy, but that entrenched
you know, those entrenched dollars signs that's got.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
To be difficult.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Do you think power power equals you know, budget's equal power, right,
So like like when you're trying to strip budgets, you're
actually stripping power and people aren't going to just roll
over in in acquiesce to that like easily, right. So
this is like a I would say, it's probably like
(12:48):
a baseline psychological condition to most bureaucrats is like, hey,
they believe, and a lot of them are true believers
in whatever program they're running, and they're so insulated from
quite possibly apply to the taxpayer because you know, if
they've grown up professionally in the government. I'm defending anyone.
I'm saying, like I think understanding, and you know, you
(13:10):
and I both come from like that background where you know,
we saw fraud, recent abuse, like firsthand, you know, every day.
Sometimes I tend to think that a lot of people
if they were just exposed to looking at what people
really are hungry for, meaning they if you think about,
(13:32):
you know, a third of our tax or a third
of our salaries and compensation in our lives or are
essentially given to you know, state, local, and federal taxes,
that means one third of our life is been working
for the government, I mean, for a lack of a
better term. So I start to think about that, like, man,
we should be going to work on this budget, going
(13:52):
to work on all of our budgets to try to
reclaim our time. So we're now working for inappropriate, fraudulent
programs that ultimately we don't agree with maybe ethically, morally,
spiritually there we're just not aligned. But we're just forced
to kind of bully up to the bar and pay
(14:13):
the tab for people that believe in a certain program.
And it's insignificant as far as the overall strategic interests
in the United States. So having people kind of one team,
one fight, you know, that are in line, like seeing
them working out with you know, the soldiers and sailors
and airmen, you know, being empathetic to the guys that
(14:35):
are on the front lines doing the job. That to
me says, okay, one, you do feel like you're in
a team, Like we're part of the team. We're making
a difference. It's not disconnected between us and them. It's
like we're in it with you. Let's go to work
not only trying to save lives through strong national national security,
but let's make sure we're not wasting taxpayer dollars. Right.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Oh yeah again, Well, it's also it's paid off.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
It's paid off tremendously too, because look at the recruiting numbers. Yeah,
I mean, the recruiting numbers are skyrockets. So it's like,
you know, I'm like, yes, yes, In fact, I keep
hammering because dude, I don't know what it is, man,
it's got to be you Army motherfuckers. But he was
just after like workout after workout after workout with with Army,
(15:23):
you know, different units, and every time I'd be like,
when are you gonna be with that sw I just
kept sniping the second death because I was like, hey man,
I want a little bit of that who y'ah going too,
Like I want you to like I want like we
need to bring dudes into our thing too.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And so that's like really positive for me.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I feel a profound sense of resurgence and that pride
and that stuff that you all you and I talk
about that stuff that drives us in.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
But I also know, you know from some friends like
all right, what's happening? Like what is what are the
next steps? You know, what what is going to take place?
In particular the one for me and this.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Is you know, you and I had a talk about
this before. And then you know, I think you know
your last time you were on with with Joe rogan
Man and that that piece you did about you know,
if the cartels get labeled or designated as terrorists?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
What does this look like? How does this change?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And and and you know, this is the thing that
I think one of the most significant thing that as
Americans want wanted. It's tangible, right, and so they just
designated what was it that ten mile between the border.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Recently they've militarized it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So you know, are because I think my favorite line
was yeah, once a Tier one unit.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Is coming after you that that's a bad day.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Right, So are you waiting for something like that or
are you you know, are you like a lot more? Well,
how what's your mindset as you as a citizen, Like
what do you want to see first as a citizen
and then you know from your background as an operator,
what what what do you hope is taking place?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Well, I think primarily number one is I want them
to do their job, which is like keep America safe,
and that that means like what we have to do
I think from like a national security position, strategic national
security position is if we have people that are you know,
importing illegally importing drugs, you know, trafficking people and this
(17:30):
is not only illegal activity, this is immoral, unjustified wrong
behavior that we can't just turn a blind eye and
say that it's not going on. We have to do
something about it. We have to identify first and foremost
is like identifying you have a problem, right, Is that
like step one? And like this the steps of recovery
is like, hey, let's identify we have a problem. Right,
(17:52):
It's like you know, it's like the steps of recovery.
So for me, the way I look at it is
like step one, we have a problem, to identify the
problems and then you have to look at them from
like macro to micro elements as far as impact, and
then go to work on the big macro elements and
then work your way down to the micro elements. But
you have to have measurable impact. So what I'm actually
(18:12):
waiting for is the results. I want to see numbers.
I don't want to see lip service. I don't want
to see anymore like you.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Don't want to see Christy no holden, yeah, christ yeah yeah.
And what are the metrics you're looking for? What do
you want to see? How many terrorists, how much money
they've lost? The I mean, obviously the inflow of illegals
in the human trafficking ring.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's pummeled.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I just saw something this morning that this time last
year was like three hundred and seventy thousand for April
and now it's like seven thousand or March.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It was March numbers.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And so I mean, that's a that's a huge tangible number, right,
that's a tangible So we see that taking place. But
we we also know and and there's a there's a
few people out there that are really doing great coverage.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Oscar Blue, Uh what's I forget his last name?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Movie he's out there with Ben Burke, whom on top
he used to yeah that, and he's doing his The
stuff he's covering now, which is unbelievable, is that that
we've shut off, right, the human smuggling operation. And then
you know, now we just saw that monster half a
billion busts down in Florida. That cash yeah, was out
(19:31):
there promoting in Pambonai. We now they're they're tampering off
the inflow of fentanyl and drugs. What's gonna take place
in Mexico in these cities and it's gonna be mass chaos,
It's violence for you know. So are we gonna are
we looking for? I mean, is there is there a
bout account number that we we need to see as Americans.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I think that. I think it's part of it.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
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(20:41):
I mean, is there about account number that we need
to see as Americans?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I think it's part of it. I think it's you know,
dollars are just the measuring point as far as like
the economic success. So I think you actually have to
measure the microeconomy that's associated with any black market economy,
which is basically what we have. Right, So if we
look at illegal activity as a whole, and then you
have to look at it as Okay, this is a
(21:07):
black market illegal activity economy. Okay, now let's take a
look at the economic impact. We have to say if
the black market economy I'm using like general terms here,
but the gross domestic product of you know, the Mexican
cartel is X, and we put a dent in it
of y like that means something like it's substantive because
we've taken away their ability to economically incentive people that
(21:31):
are conducting illegal activity inside our borders regardless of it. So,
but we have to go to work, I think is
triage and priority against what are you to be the
biggest impacts into affecting their economy, because that is the
crippling point to any of these industries. You start crippling
their economy now you're taking away jobs. When you're taking
(21:52):
away jobs and opportunity inside a black market activity, that
means people don't have economic mobility. They can't move up
if there isn't any jobs, so they're going to go
seek jobs employment in other places. Because it's a human condition.
You have to have money in order to exchange that
money for goods and services to live. So will they
flood out and Ultimately, will they conform into what I
(22:15):
would say is a civilian population standard economy basis in
like Mexico, Guatemala, l Salvador, like we'll just call it
South America. The answer is yes, that's going to take
a while, right, So that's where I think import export,
and then understanding within not only our borders but this
hemisphere providing the right economic incentives. I'm not talking about like,
(22:38):
you know, giving them money. I'm talking about how do we.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Building factories creating jobs? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, So and then I'm really like, I mean, who
am I right to talk about this other than like
I'm looking at it from economic impact, direct results as
far as shrinking the overall economy that's directly impacting our
society and negation way going to work on the big
pieces and then targeting the small pieces as we continue
(23:06):
to go. But right now, in the first four years,
I think it's really important to have substantive economic damage
to illegal activity that's coming in from all around all
around the world. So if we're talking about targeting very
specific gang activity like INS thirteen or whatever it is,
what is their mean economic engine, Like is it drugs?
(23:27):
Like I would imagine it is right. So that's where
I think we have to focus our intent. Big organizations,
big economic impact. What are their drivers? How do we
be very precise? And that's not necessarily about body count,
that's about keeping drugs out of our country, right, keeping
them out because that provides real substantive economic impact because
(23:50):
where are they going to take it? Where are they
going to sell it? I might be oversimplifying, I'm sure,
I am no.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I remember.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I think a lot of people that when they do
face this issue, they they hear the things on you know, TV,
and we're designating them terrorists, and you know, just like
everybody because I don't know, last twenty five years at
a GIWA, they're going to imagine like a bunch of uh,
you know, unit guys showing up with their you know,
(24:18):
their their headcams and just smoking three hundred cartel members
of you know, with their you know, doing their dances
with all their you know, tricked out stuff on, and
like that's what people are imagining, that this is what
this is about. When they when they don't even stop
for a minute and say, well, how much influence does
(24:38):
the cartels have in the Mexican government, how much and
you know, influence do they have? How many cartel leaders
actually own predominant legitimate.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Businesses in Mexico? And you know, I don't.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I mean, it's just and then you know the collapse
and what that looks like. I mean, obviously there's still
a market, maybe the market moves and goes in a
different direction you're or Southeast Asia. But but now it's
it's the market's cut in half. Now there's going to
be these civil wars that emerge, which we're that we
already saw what five six years ago. I remember Lara
Logan being down on the border and being on the
(25:14):
top of a roof and the I forget the Homeland
guy she was with, is there's a full firefight going on,
you know in the town right, Oh, you know, And
I think it's I think it's good for people to hear,
you know, that kind of distilling down to hey, you
got to focus on the on the bigger things first.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Well, and I think that's part of it, right, But
there's also kind of what I would say is a
physics truth, which is energy begets energy, So violent energy
begets violent energy. And so the more we plug in
with violent energy, quite possibly, the more violent energy we're
gonna have to face here. So what my biggest concern
(25:58):
is is that violent energy conducted across or in you know,
South America, Mexico, wherever where we're at, we'll end up
here in affecting civilians and that would be the wrong
equation for us to not play out from a second
and third order effect. So protect the protect the borders,
protect people. What I would say is bad actors from
(26:19):
entering the country itself, go to work on their economy
to collapse. They're essentially the pillars of the cornerstone of
the legal activity or the black market. And then of
course there's going to have to be I think a
kinetic environment in there too. But we do have to
protect the homeland and make sure that we don't start
that too early because we don't want the What I
(26:40):
would say is the violence spillover to affect innocent American
lives here.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That would be I think that that's genius.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I mean, that's that's a legitimate, well thought out evaluation
is and that hopefully gives people a little bit of
pause to say, oh, yeah, we're going to go to
the war with the cartels, but it's all going to
be in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I mean, that's a brilliant way to.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Kind of put people back in a position where they
can think a little bit more critically about it. For me,
you know, the thing is is, yeah, we've had what
roughly one hundred thousand plus deaths from fatanyl every year
since COVID, right, more deaths than World War two. Right,
that's the craziest number number one thing killing young people
(27:23):
eighteen to you know what twenty six or twenty nine
or something like that, and just reacin have it well.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And this is.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Something that I think you and I are always focused on, man,
every time that I'm around you or with you, we
always kind of go towards this idea.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Is that young men.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Right now, right, they're with kind of the the lack
of courage, I think, or and that's not all on themselves.
It's I think a lot of it's been driven out
of them for a whole different types of social issues.
But like you know, we stop that those draws uggs, right,
we get those young men you know, out of drugs,
(28:03):
out or access to drugs, and then then it's like okay,
now it's cool to go back into military again, and
all right, or go to law enforcement. Let's like law
enforcements looking good again too. Let's let's, you know, take
the handcuffs off them, let them do those jobs.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We still have the challenges with a lot of.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
DA's, but you know, this, this gap, I think for us,
provides this wonderful opportunity, in particular for young men to
start to say, all right, man, now I can I
can get my mojo back. Now I can, I can start,
I can start going. So in your mind, you know what,
(28:40):
where does that courage begin to re emerge in young
men right now?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Well, I think it kind of starts with It starts
with the country. It starts with our leaders. They have
to earn trust back that they're not going to put
guys like you and I and endless war for Darthur
Brum and Raytheon and Haliburton number one. Uh, you got
to earn back trust that we're just going to flippidly
(29:07):
send are our children now right? Our children off to
wars for profit? Because I kind of I distill different
things now down to like simple truths, which is, there
are wars of choice, and there are wars of maintaining sovereignty,
which is that in those you don't have a choice.
(29:28):
You have to maintain the sovereignty of the country. So
when you have a war of choice, which is one
of the issues that we've seen over the last several decades,
because these these are wars that we have fought based
on we've decided or somebody the decider decided right, right,
they We're going to send young men and women off
(29:49):
to die in foreign countries with no success criteria. There's
quite literally a negative strategic gain in the long term
effects of it. So it starts with a clear understanding
and really you have to have leaders that are not
(30:10):
willing to what I would say is squander courage because
it's the It is the most precious thing that I
think men can encompass embody and ultimately utilize in their life.
Like being a courageous man is I think one of
the finest virtues. Quite possibly. I don't know if you
(30:30):
can be wise without being courageous, To be honest with you,
I think it's kind of a foundational element. But service
to our country should never be squandered by our leaders.
And what I've consistently had a hard time with over
and over is that did our leaders actually have us
(30:56):
the best our interests and did they did they sacrifice
our courage and our time and our lives because of
a personal interest or belief. So I definitely had this
issue with a lot of the neocons that got us
into Iraq because I've spent a huge percentage of my
time in Iraq. You know, I don't think guys like
(31:19):
Paul Wolfowitz, w Cheney, Rumsfeld Runny, I don't like first
and foremost, I think you have to be a man
of courage in order to send men off to die.
Like so, I think there's a distinct tunes. I think
there's a distinct difference between you know, people like to
(31:40):
pull back in history and look at different men and
women both actually that have made decisions to send people
off to die for our country or a cause. And
like there's very distinct differences between Vietnam and World War Two, Iraq,
Afghanistan and World War Two. I mean, we can't continue
to rest America's image on the sacrifice of the men
(32:04):
in World War Two. That was a choice. We didn't
have a choice. That was a war of national sovereignty.
We had to maintain our national sovereignty, and the men
that were leading us through those times I mean even
if you look at you know, Truman for the back half.
I mean, Truman was a decorated World War One veteran,
(32:25):
you know, post that in the Cold War, I mean
Eisenhower obviously led the Allied invasion. Winston Churchill, like, I
don't know if there was a there was a time
in his life leading into World War Two that that
guy wasn't giving a speech that was directly at a
front to the Nazi encroachment on civil liberties and the
Western world. Right. So he was a man of courage,
(32:47):
not only physically he had personified courage as a soldier,
but then he did it every day through his speeches,
through his acts of virtue. And I'm not lyingizing anyone.
Everybody has their faults. We're all human, right, So you're
not saying they're perfect. Everyone is flawed. But I don't
(33:08):
necessarily know if the man that sent us to these
wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were men of courage and
women of courage. I think from a theoretical academic thought process,
they like wolf of Witz is an extremely intelligent guy,
(33:29):
but I don't think they actually they don't understand the
real sacrifice, nor did they they didn't understand the Middle East.
They didn't understand Iraq, and they didn't they don't have
the tangible experience of the blood and sacrifice of men
in the sands of a foreign country to really understand
what they were doing. They didn't truly understand it. So
(33:52):
I think you have to real back trust gave. Like
number one, You're not going to send people off to
die in a dumb, fucking war.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And that's what scares the hell out of me.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I mean, I know you're paying attention to it like
I do, but you know, now all of a sudden,
it's like you start to see those old school mentalities
start to you know, move that radical and where is
it going. It's right back on Iran, And you know,
I wanted to get your thoughts. So let's you know,
if if some I mean I don't think it's a stretch,
(34:25):
but if if something begins to turn the tides of
you know, the the administrative focus towards recognizing that Iran
as a threat or whatever, and we get into a
kinetic war with them, it's not going to be like
any of the other ones. I mean, this one's going
to be could be devastating and has grander implications globally
(34:47):
as well too. But what I see in my head
as I see another, you know, three million American kids,
at least in their minds, are going to Roger up
and go fight over and and the deserts of of
southern Iran and Iraq, and you know over in Afghanistan.
I mean, it's just it's madness to me. But there's
(35:08):
a sensation that I think is building that that's a possibility.
Do you do you think that that might be true?
But there's a sensation that I think is building that
that's a possibility. Do you do you think that that
might be true?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I've learned over you know, the last couple of decades,
and never question the arrogance, their stupidity of our political leadership, which, like,
to be quite honest with you, I mean I I
I want to anytime now I hear the drum beats
of war, I am highly skeptical. And the first question
(35:50):
I have to ask is is this a war of necessity? Will? Will?
Does Iran have the capacity to eliminate our national sovereignty?
The answer is no, absolutely not no. So that's the
number one principle of having what I would what I
(36:10):
what I would define as a virtuous war, because you
don't have a choice. When you have a choice, and
I'm not saying that every Like, there's a difference between
having a position and a strategic interest in eliminating threats
to the United States. That's not necessarily a hot war
against another nation state, Right, that's pursuing people that have
(36:33):
a a that are affecting your national security and ultimately
your economic interest internationally. That's not like getting yourself into
a hot war with what is it, the third largest
army in the in the world. We have we I
think there are a lot of different options out there
(36:53):
that we could exhaust before this went into some type
of hot war exchange. I think it would be extremely detrimental. One.
I don't know if the American public can handle another war, right,
I mean, we've been at war, but we just ended
the Afghan War after twenty plus years, Like to go
(37:14):
to Iran would be I think it would be a
really big mistake.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I really, I just I mean for me on a
personal level, it's like every every outcome is the antithesis
of what the outcome that I was.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Led to believe was going to be.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The outcome, right, all of them, and you can go
I mean, you can go back, you know, I mean
Vietnam even before that, I mean probably, I mean, and
it's like.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Now you're trying to pitch us another one.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And I because you know, as I've shared with you deeply,
like one of my greatest concerns is that we have
squandered that eternal flame of courage in young men and
and this could break the will completely.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You know. It's it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I've left watching the like Johnny on the Street interviews
and all that, and I recently watched one of of
of somebody over in England, right, and they were it's
when Starmer was you know, projecting, you know, America's leaving
Ukraine behind and WEENI as Englishmen need to get behind this,
(38:24):
and you know, they were saying we're out a little bit,
like we're gonna put boots on the ground and that
type of thing. And this guy was on the street
and he's like, well, do you believe in what Starmer's position? Oh?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, his position Ukraine is great?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
All right? Would you would you sign up as soon
as they declared war and go, well, you know what
I mean, Well, you know that's not technically happening. So
but but so, you know, I still think America, you know,
American men are the greatest fighters on a planet.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I think they always will be.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
However, if you trick them again and you put these
young lads, you know, in one more time, I mean,
you know, there are catastrophic consequences that inevitably will come
when the when the crux of the majority of the
people you're counting on to project that power no longer
(39:23):
feel uh uh, what is it feel that sense of
imbued patriotism to go fight, wage whatever war they ask
us to do again.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah, I mean I think you know, love for country
is wine trust, Right, It's like love and trust. I think,
really they're they're where they're they're honestly built on each other. Right,
So the foundation of our love for our families and
our wives and is built on the fact that especially
I think when we're talking about our wives, right, it's
(39:56):
like trust, right, respect trust. To have a profound amount
of patriotism, you also have to have a profound amount
of trust in your political officials, your elected officials. And
if we go to war again, I just I see
that as it's completely eroding the trust in our elected officials,
(40:19):
because whether or not you can thoroughly intellectualize something doesn't
mean you can't feel it. Because I don't know about you,
but after a few years in Iraq, I could feel it.
I can't like articulate. I was still trying to like
really provide myself the the what I would say is
the intellectual effort to try to like keep keeping the
(40:40):
fight right where I think that there's a significant amount
of there's been a significant amount of trust lost, and
you know, I don't. I just don't see a world
where we can do this again without sacrifice. Seeing the
trust within our fellow countrymen, especially the new generational war fighters,
(41:06):
like this might to your point, this might be the
death nail of being able to recruit people into the
military because there will be a complete deterioration of trust
within the American political system.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Aymn, wow, unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
All right, last question for you before and then we
will I do have one more patriot question for everybody
after that, but that's a fun one, so I'll get
fun and serious.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
But this is the last question.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
All right.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Obviously, you know you run a public company.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
The whole tariffs thing, we had a really brilliant young economist.
On the other day, guy was really smart, talked about
on shoring up seven percent year over year, talked about
how actually the economy is doing really good, you know,
and that tariffs was just you know, one more thing
what the old guard media is trying to light up
(42:01):
to destroy any semblance of success within the Trump administration.
As a person that is highly engaged in in in
the American economy, you know, are you are you pleased
with where we're going right now in the economy and
(42:22):
you know, where do you see uh the economy going
and you know the next six months to a year?
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Well, I think you know, I am. I am pleased
that we're having some type of what I would say
is a balancing conditions between other countries and import export,
and specifically in tariffs, like we have to make it.
What I would say is we have to have the
appropriate economic incentives to encourage businesses and small businesses to
keep manufacturing and hire people within it Like the United States,
(42:55):
we have to and you know, we've had such a
long run of outshore or offshoring a lot of the
industries too, specifically to one of our greatest strategic threats,
I mean China, which doesn't make any sense by the way,
like there's no there's a reality I think that we
(43:15):
could all live in where we're The only reality I
can figure out is like, okay, there's a codependency economically
from the two main military superpowers in the world. Well okay,
well now if we decouple those, then we'll both collapse
our economies, which nobody would want to do, right, but
(43:36):
just based on the fact that like humans mostly like
they do want economic security on both sides. So to
be a political zealot, whether you're a communist or a democrat,
it would also mean a forfeiture of some type of
your political ideology that in that regard. So it's not
only economic, but it's also political, and they're tiede The
(43:56):
thing that I see is there does have to be
a balance. And one of the greatest things that I
think we've been able to do over the last three
months is now we have a really complex conversation around
what do these mean? What is it reciprocity as far
as like tariffs from China to terifs in the United States,
tariffs internationally, how do we need to look at them?
(44:19):
But really I think the macro conversation is how do
we directly support in economically encourage Americans to be in
these manufacturing jobs and or these jobs that we've traditionally
in the last several decades outsourced to other countries, because
(44:40):
it not only protects the country economically if we maintain
our logistics in our supply chain within the borders, because
as we saw during COVID, when the borders shut down
and we don't actually have a stable supply chain, it
directly affects our economy. And if we think back to
the four five trillion dollars that we had to that
(45:01):
we reinjected or rejected back into the American economy to
artificially prop it up over the course of COVID, we
should have learned a few things over that, which is,
there are a few things that we really have to
just make bomb proof from a supply chain, logistics and
manufacturing capacity. We have to maintain for national security some
form of assemblance of our supply chain and tech technology
(45:26):
manufacturing we do like we just have to do from
a strategic interest perspective. Economically, it makes us more powerful
because now we can start to export more and we
were more competitive in the international workforce or international workplace economy.
But from an individual level, I'm highly encouraged by it. Yes,
(45:46):
I understand that coffee prices are going to go up
based on the impact got it. Okay, coffee has been
underpriced for fifty years. Wow, it was at its lowest
point like like last year in modern history. And we're
consuming more coffee than we ever have, and yet the
(46:09):
coffee prices are low. And a lot of that is
built on the type of farming that is being conducted
in Brazil for mass manufacturing of agriculture products, specific with
coffee is driving down artificially driving down the price. So
if we have to pay a little bit more for coffee,
I mean people walk into coffee shops around the United
(46:29):
States and pay four dollars every day for drip coffee.
Typically Okay, well you get a lot more than you know,
for a ten to twelve dollars back of coffee, you
can have eighteen to twenty cups of coffee, right, So
that just means that you have to shift your purchasing
behavior because if you're going to four to five dollars
(46:50):
drip coffee and you've got to pay an extra dollar
in the grocery store to stabilize and reinforce what I
would say is an appropriate strategically a lined supply chain
that maintains our sovereignty. Like, that's important. So I think
it's economically of interest in the United States. I also
(47:10):
think it dovetails directly into maintaining your national sovereignty. So
I am highly encouraged that this tariff conversation will one
at least start the multi country debate and we're going
to land in a much better spot in this negotiation.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Awesome, man, I love to hear you talk about it. Man.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
You know, it's funny, man, when you start to think
about commodities and you start to think about how integrated
they are into the purchasing mindset of everyday life. Right,
Coffees at the pinnacle of them, right, And I mean,
you know, and I just to see the way you're
able to summarize it and expand on it on a
(47:55):
for a grander economic stability, it's really cool and sate
your thoughts on that, buddy.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
To add one more thing to that, I think we
should always be thinking about our national security and our
strategic interest as well as our economic interests. Right, So
it's just kind of always been a head scratcher of
the last twenty years. Why we have been so We've
capitulated so much of our economics to China, and we've
(48:26):
ultimately directly contributed to the build of their economy, which
then lends itself to them having a larger military and
a much bigger military scope and more strategic authority that
is directly misaligned with our long term strategic goals. So
why are we outsourcing big economic pieces of our big
(48:49):
pieces of our our economic condition in America to our
stratetrategic foe. That to me, even if we just look
at like, let's just cut the world in half and
at this hemisphere for like two minutes, Okay, if we
just look at like Mexico, if we were actively encouraging
(49:10):
industry in Mexico, would we have such a border crisis?
If there was more economic mobility and advancement, if people
had opportunities to go to work and high paying manufacturing
jobs just in Mexico, would there be such a border crisis?
I think not. Listen, I'm not an economist. I'm just
kind of a guy that, like, you know, roast coffee
(49:30):
and hire a few people like I can pontificate about
this all day long. But if you have more economic mobility,
more jobs within our own hemisphere, now we don't have
to ship those jobs and our supply chain of manufacturing
out to our most strategic fuff like that to me,
seems it's easier to get goods in and out. We're
(49:50):
aligned with the people that we're sharing our borders with.
From a national security perspective, they're not our enemies. Okay,
there's more to gain from building even what I would
say is is is not only internal economics, but also
making economically advantageous for our friends to do business with us,
(50:13):
not any that.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
I think that's the the key to a global success
as it is, right, I think the real, the real
thing is what I'm a big supporter of, is Hey,
let's just make it more more fair. Right, Let's let's
enable it's enable our goods and services to have a
much more competitive edge around the world and instead of
(50:38):
just being the overall consumer of all things. And I
thank you for sharing that, man, I think that really
helps people because I know when I'm on the road obviously,
you know, I just spent a couple of days up
in New Jersey. I talked to probably I don't know,
maybe like four hundred people in two days and had
(50:59):
some really amazing conversations with these these advisors who are
you know, talking about the conversations they're having with their people,
with the people that you know are have invested in
they are, they're they're managing their portfolios. And it's like
last week or whenever, you know, when the tariff thing
hit and the market dumped, like people were losing their
(51:20):
fricking minds because they aren't thinking about it in the
in the scope that you just described it as. So
I think it's incredibly valuable. I think, you know, even
though you are, you know, just kind of an old
knuckle dragon coffee guy, I think your your wisdom does
have an impact for people.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
So thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Buddy of mine, he always gives me this advice. He's like,
take a deep breath. Things are never as good or
as bad as you think they are. And it's like
this whole conversation last week that like the economy went
up and down, you're on a roller coaster ride, and
it's like, okay, take a deep breath, Like, okay, what's
in the long term? And I think that was the
(52:05):
uh you know part of the narrative, which is, yeah,
there's some short term pain for some long term benefit
and what what do you say? You think you got
to take your medicine a little bit and like, hey,
he didn't get us here, by the way, Like this
was a series of different presidents starting at Nixon that
ultimately landed us here. So like, you know, don't kill
(52:29):
the messenger when that's kay, listen, this is this is
for the long term good.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
For for your children or for your grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Man.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
That's that's the way.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
That's the way I'm constantly framing this whole thing is like, man,
is the pain right now going to benefit for the
positives of my children when they're out there starting businesses,
joining the military, working for a corporation, you know, uh,
poorn coffee, whatever it is. Man, how do we set
(53:00):
it up for them? That's that's our you know, we're
the stewards of the future, right and it's I think
it's just critical that that everybody understands and takes that
on their backs.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Man, you can't. You can't saddle the future with thirty
five trillion dollars a deck, like you just can't do
it like that's it's it's immoral for us not to
do something about it, and ultimately that could be our
greatest act of courage, is like going to work making
sure that we don't saddle our the next generations with
(53:33):
so much debt that they're going to spend half their
lives working for the federal government. That's because we chose
to loan money at the tune of trillions of dollars,
because we can balance a budget and we can stop
fraudulent spending. Right, like these are just like you know,
I calculated it a while back. There's we'll call it
fifteen trillion dollars just between the Global War on Terror
(53:55):
and COVID. Right, So we started the g WATT at
just about five trillion dollars in debt, and then we
exited Afghanistan with the thirty four trillion dollars in debt.
So like all of those trillions of dollars and none
of which was was spent on building American infrastructure, you know,
(54:19):
rebuilding our education or high speed railways or I could
think of like a thousand different initiatives. Quite we would
have been more of an economic advantage than like synking
it into the soil in Central Asia or the Middle East.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I agree, brother, I agree, dude. Love seeing your face. Man,
thank you so much for coming on. I can't wait
till the next time. I promise you.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Next time it's going to be with you out there,
all right, Buddies.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
Yeah, come out anytime. Dave.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
You know I love you, Boddy, love you too, Man,
God bless you, brother. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
The following is a preview for additional content only available
on Patreon. One of the things that we're hoping on
Patreon that we can do for everybody, especially the young
people that are coming, is just give them some little
bit of wisdom.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
And so there's two main things that I want.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
I would love it if you could just kind of.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Just pontificate a little bit more on is is one,
where can people find courage in themselves? Like, what are
the activities, what are the things, what can they read?
What are the the basics right that that invoke a
grander sense of being courageous? Right.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
That's the first half.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
And then the second half is once they discover it,
once they start to feel it, how can then they
invest that courage into something tangible that that that validates
the effort itself, that that that continue, that allows the
courage to continue.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
It's a great question. You know, you and I have
talked about this a lot, so a lot of things
come to mind, which is there's a falsehood that's kind
of built on Hollywood that you know, people just average
joke and like roll out of bed, their feet hit
the floor, and then there all of a sudden going
to become courage they're courageous, and that just doesn't exist.
(56:21):
It's a practiced art, it's a lifetime endeavor and it
never ends. Actually, so you have to kind of sign
yourself up for the individual work that is going to
last for the rest of your life. Because I used
to talk about this, you know, twenty years ago. You
have to seek out challenges that intentionally drive fear back
into your heart, and then you have to pursue those
(56:43):
things with practice, discipline, organized effort, and you have to
work through the problem in a very methodical crawl, quall, lock,
run phase. And then you have to practice being scared, which.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Is to hear the rest of this incredible interview with
my great friend Evan Hayfer, go over to our Patreon
site where you can hear us talk a lot about
some ideas that will enhance courage and really propel you
to find your purpose in life.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Also, we really want.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
To announce on May thirty first, We're going to have
a live motivational event, an hour of discussing the whole
core concepts behind.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
What I've learned over the last thirty years.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Then we'll open it up to an hour long Q
and A where you can ask me anything you want
about motivation, performance, and all of the other topics that
I've been working on for a.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Long, long time.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Join us for two dollars a month on our Patreon
at David Rutherford Show.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
Thank you.
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