May 24, 2023 • 36 mins
Target under fire. Are we finally seeing "Get Woke, Go Broke" come to fruition? L.A. Dodgers invite anti-Catholic group the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, gay men mocking nuns, to Pride Night. Marketplace choices aren't the same as cancel culture. Bill Barr, Ty Cobb say Trump's in trouble in Mar-a-Lago documents investigation. Will DeSantis and other GOP candidates pledge to pardon Trump? Dems want to lock up Trump. Trump's legal strategy should be: Delay, delay, delay.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in everybody. This is the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show. I'm Buck, He's Clay. We have much to
discuss with you today. As always, thanks for rolling with us.
The announcement comes in a matter of hours. Governor Ron
Dea Santis of Florida will be officially entering this race,
(00:26):
joining Elon Musk on a Twitter spaces which I think
I know what that is.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I certainly know what Twitter is, But how does this look?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
How's The Trump campaign responded, as you can imagine, not
a particularly warm welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
From the Trump team.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
At the prospect here of a Elon I mean of
a Elon launch for Ron DeSantis, which is imminent.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
We'll talk more about that.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Still hearing some stuff about how a debt ceiling.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh, it's so scary. The debt ceiling.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
We may break through without We might update you on
some of that later on in the program. It seems
like there will be a deal. The brinksmanship has gotten stale,
so some of the people who like to push it
are still hoping that you will be particularly aggravated at
the prospect of some kind of major financial crisis coming
(01:25):
along because of this, but I don't think it's going
to happen. But the budget deal, debt ceiling thing, We've
got some more for you on that.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And also.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Target is feeling the heat right now, and I think, Clay,
that's a good place for us to start, because we've seen,
for the first time, really that I can remember, in
the last I don't know, call it the last twelve
months or so, major corporations that have gone extreme left
and very woke with their products and with the way
(01:58):
they present things. We've seen them start to get meaningful pushback,
not just people saying I don't like this, but financial consequences,
which is the only thing that's going to change that
corporate behavior. Right, unless it hurts the bottom line, nothing changes.
In fact, I had been frustrated for a while because
the right had been saying go woke, go broke.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And it hadn't really been true.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I mean, you look at Colin Kaepernick, for example, somebody
who became much more famous and much wealthier because of
his wokeness. Right, there are other examples you can point to.
We say go woke, go broke, but it hadn't really
hadn't really worked out that way. In fact, I don't
know if it ever really worked out that way po
who went woke and went broke to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
It's a really it's a really good, good point.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
And this is where I think the sports media, being
so far left wing, Buck has refused to acknowledge that
the NBA and the NFL really took it on the
chin over going woke right, and they really have tried
to run in the opposite direction. It took a few
(03:05):
years for it to register. It's unlike bud Light. And
the reason why I think bud Light's so significant, Buck
is you get a direct amount of bud Light sold
every week and people can say, holy crap, they're down
twenty eight percent. We've never seen anything like this. I
think it's harder to see in some brands than others.
(03:26):
But the television ratings of the NBA have collapsed. And
I think one thing is sports media is so far
left wing that no one will even acknowledge it because
they don't want to give credit to the idea that
what we said, hey, you're alienating a huge part of
the sporting public was actually true.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So I do think the NBA is.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
A good example of one that took it on the chin,
and I think, to a certain extent, Disney because Disney Stockbuck.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, but that's what I was gonna say, Disney.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So going back to the timeline, I was gonna say,
Disney is the beginning of what we are seeing now.
Disney was the first one that I can think of
on the NBA, in the NFL. I mean, these guys,
you know, now you get into well, who's going broke clags?
It's not the players. They're demanding more money than ever.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
They don't feel like there's any there's no hit to
their pocketbook that's happened because of this.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
But I do think it's coming.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So that so then see that's the thing if the
if the NBA takes a fifteen or twenty percent haircut
in because of the ratings, that doesn't register in a
way that everyone feels like this is a big victory.
When bud Light is down thirty percent in one quarter,
you see the work that you have. So let's just
let's again back up for a second.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Disney.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
There's this fight with Ron De Santis, and it was
interesting also to see how this plays out among conservatives
because we generally have a especially about economics. A lais
a fair attitude about things. Oh, let the market decide. Well,
that's not so clear when you have advantages being given
to a company that don't go to other companies. That
and that is also taking political action. So Disney was
(04:59):
the beginning of what we saw as pushback. And then
the bud Light phenomenon happened, which has put the fear
of the bottom line, to be sure, if not the
fear of the almighty into some of these companies. And
then we add to that now Target because of the
bathing suits that tuck away the man stuff, people are
(05:21):
showing up and saying this is a problem. And then
that brings me to the latest play. And this is
going back into the sports world. So the Los Angeles Dodgers,
and I will be honest, I have not watched a
professional baseball game, I think in almost twenty years now,
so I'm not up on the latest. But I know
of these LA Dodgers. I know they used to be
(05:41):
the Brooklyn Dodgers. A long time ago. They had they
had invited for pride celebration stuff. They invited this group
Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, And this is for their annual
LGBTQ Plus. I don't know why they're leaving out the IA.
I think that's really not inclusive enough. I'm gonna write
to the New York Times here because the IA the
(06:02):
plus isn't enough. You need the IA and then the plus.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
But they were.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
They invited the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, and then they
disinvited them, and now they've reinvited them for their June
sixteenth Celebration of Pride Night at Dodger Stadium. For anyone
who doesn't know, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence have been
around since I think the eighties. They are cross dressing
gay men who dress as nuns and engage in sexually
(06:33):
provocative public displays. You know, think strip teases, thong dances,
dressed in nuns habits, including video that you may see
circulating right now of these, you know, hairy, thirty five
year old or whatever men dressed as nuns with high
heels and thongs on doing a strip tease around somebody
(06:56):
pretending to be the crucified Jesus Christ, and we all
sit around saying, okay, first of all, why does anyone
in the Pride celebration community think the Sisters of Perpetual
Indulgence or a group that should be supported period. I
want to start with actually that one for everyone out there.
(07:16):
And then what do the LA Dodgers think the audience
that they have a lot of a lot of Catholics
in general, a lot of Christians in general, a lot
of Latino Catholics for example, who are very fond of baseball.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Probably the base of Dodger fans in LA is overwhelmingly Catholic,
Hispanic fan base.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I just have to ask you, Claig, I mean, you're
you're not a Catholic.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I am if they but if they had invited, let's say,
a group that did depictions of the prophet Mohammed and
then sexualized it and mocked the whole thing, would that
be okay? You know, if they did something that was
meant to mock Judaism, If they had a pride group
that had you know, rabbis dressed up and were then
all you know, I can't even describe on radio that
(08:02):
some of the displays that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence do,
but it's meant to absolutely graphically sexually humiliate Catholics that's
the whole point of it.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I was raised Southern Baptist, so that is my religious background.
You are Catholic in particular. But what I would say, Buck,
is what you just said. If the Dodgers, as part
of an outreach, decided that they were going to allow
a group that mocked anyone affiliated with the Jewish faith,
(08:36):
anyone affiliated with the Muslim faith, that would.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Be immediately condemned and disallowed.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
And honestly, if you mocked Mohammed, you might have to
worry about your players being murdered by terrorists and being
put on a fatwah list like we just saw happened
to Salmon Rushdi.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Or cartoons controversy, you absolutely would have to worry about
that one.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Hundred percent because they would say, you are mocking our religion.
We're going to kill you, right, And the fact that
if you mock the Muslim faith you have to worry
about being murdered. You saw what happened with Charlie Hebdo
when they published the cartoons there and they had the
attack on the I mean the satirical French. I mean
(09:24):
they had a teacher beheaded for showing a Muslim representation.
I think of Muhammad. So this to me is just
shouldn't be a bright line rule. And if you're Christian,
if you're you know, Muslim, if you're Hindu, if you're Jewish,
if you're really not really affiliated with any religion, I
(09:45):
don't understand for the Dodger perspective, And this goes for
all sports teams. How is the standard not the same
for all religions. I mean to me, if you are
going to allow the Catholic faith to be mocked, then
you have to allow all faith groups to be mocked.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And honor it, right.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I mean there's a difference between it existing and the
Dodger specifically saying we want these this is representative in
our building.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
This is specifically inviting people to go out and I
guess they gather in the stadium. They probably have something
where they go out into you know, center field or
the you know the dugout or whatever they call it
in baseball. So and just so we all understand, this
isn't like a gentle uh parody or satirizing. It's not
(10:32):
in good fun. This group, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.
I have seen the videos, I have seen the photos,
I have seen what they do, it is meant to
be not only offensive to Catholics, it's just depraved. I mean,
someone doing a striptease over whether you believe in Jesus
or not, it's a man who's being crucified on a cross,
and you have a nun dressed up who's actually a man,
(10:54):
by the way. So this stuff is depraved, it is grotesque,
it is wrong. And yet the Dodgers are more afraid
of the backlash they'll get from the activist community than
the Catholics, in particular because the nuns, obviously is what
they're going after here. And also it's interesting the activist hostility,
(11:16):
the LGBTQIA plus activist hostility toward Catholics is nothing new,
something you're not really supposed to talk about.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
You're just supposed to take it as a Catholic. But
when you see what's.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Going on here, Clay, this is another moment where it's
a gut check moment. You know, you ask yourself, Okay,
you're a Roman Catholic. You go to church, let's say
every Sunday or once a year, I don't even care.
But you're somebody who believes, you believe in the divinity of
Jesus Christ, you believe in the Bible, you believe in
the Holy Trinity.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You're gonna watch a Dodgers game after this.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
You're gonna show up. You're gonna buy tickets to go
to Dodger Stadium. You're gonna support them. You're gonna pay
fifteen dollars for crappy beer and a hot dog. I'm sorry,
thirty dollars for crappy beer and a hot dog. That's
how you want to spend your time, your dollars. You
want to support an organization like this. If you do
not bring the Dodgers to your knees, you are not
serious about standing up for your faith in the public
(12:04):
sphere as a Dodgers fan. At this point, that's just reality. Now,
people they can judge. Oh, I just love to go
with my buddies from work and whatever. You want bud
Light to feel the pain, you want target to feel
the pain. You want entities to stop doing things that corrupt,
corrode and undermine our culture, our freedom, our dignity as
(12:25):
a society, or not so. I think it's a gut
check moment for a lot of Look, I mean, I
can't pretend if I boycott baseball. Nothing happens because I
think that it's the most boring sport on television next
to golf. And I could care less, but I know
there are people listening. We got a lot of people listening,
KiB Los Angeles, people in the Los Angeles area. People
just like to watch baseball at home. I think you
just have to ask yourself, if you're a Catholic, why
(12:47):
would you continue to support this?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And I think that people say, oh, but are we
calling for boycott's. Yeah, damn right, we're calling for boycotts.
Look at what they're doing. I mean, did you see
the other day, Clay, They went viral with some story.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Oh they're banning books again in Florida. Yeah they were
re stocking books. Yeah, I know. They were the opposite
of banning. They were buying more books.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Just you know, I think at some point we come back,
let let's let's talk about this more. And I want
to open up phone lines eight hundred and two eight
two two eight eight two. What I would say is this,
at some point, I think the key here is that
there are so many people who are on the right
and in the middle, and frankly on the left, just
a little bit to the left right who disagree with
a lot of this, but they don't want to create
(13:32):
a stir. And so for so long, the far left
wing in this country has created all the stirs, and
so they have they have won in many of the
cultural battles out there, and there have been no consequences
for going too far left wing.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Zero. We have to stop turning the other cheek.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
At some point, when you get punched in the mouth,
you have to throw a punch back. And I think
that's what bud Light has shown. And I want to
talk about how this interplay exist with cancel culture, because
I see a lot of people saying, Oh, this is
canceled culture.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I'll explain what the difference is. I think there's a
misapprehension in many respects about what exactly canceled culture is.
But hey, how many of you out there wish the
Biden White House had some testosterone? How many of you
wished the LA Dodgers had some testosterone?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
What if they were.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Willing to stand up to all of this left wing
shenanigans going on on a regular basis. Testosterones down fifty
percent in our country. Do you think it's a coincidence
that bad and awful rulers have followed with a decline
and testosterone. I don't think it is weak Men make poor,
(14:42):
poor decisions.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Do you want to be a weak man? Probably not.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
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Speaker 3 (15:48):
Com, Keeping it real, keeping it honest.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexman Show. I want
to talk about something because I see a lot of
people say, how is this nut canceled? Cold?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Sure, I thought you didn't like cancel culture.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
No. Look, Choosing to spend your money or not spend
your money with a brand based on whether they respect
you is the very definition of the marketplace. Right, we
believe in the marketplace of ideas. Here, cancel culture is
I don't like your opinion, and you don't deserve the
(16:22):
right to exist. Right, you should have heard it. You
should lose your jobs, your organization, job disappear. I've not
heard anybody, and I don't think you have either. Buck say, oh,
I don't think bud Light should exist anymore. I don't
think targets should exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Now.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
If they run their business in such a way that
they go bankrupt, that's capitalism. That's how the marketplace works.
But it isn't cancel culture to make decisions on how
to spend you with your family's money with brands that
you like. It's it's really a poor I've seen that argument,
and it's a bad one. It's one of the many
bad arguments that let's make about this stuff. I mean,
is a cancel culture When Marxist lunatics who love AOC
(17:00):
choose not to watch you know, conservative commentators on TV,
on Fox or wherever you know?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Is that cancel culture?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
No making a decision, right, so you know you're making
a decision here. Cancel culture is when people try to
make it seem like someone is so beyond the pale
they're an untouchable. They must be fired, ruined and miserated
and impoverished because they said something that offended the wokeness gods.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
For a second.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's not I'm not going to buy your stuff because
I don't like what you're doing. Right, If a restaurant
is giving you bad service, it is not cancel culture.
If you just say, look, I'm not going to come back.
If you guys continue with this bad service, it's just normal. Yeah,
that's right. And by the way, if you hate this
show and you say I'm never listening to Clay and
Buck again, I hate those guys.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I mean, we hope you don't. My mom and Buck's
mom think you're imbeciles.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
But that's your right, right. We're in the marketplace every day.
We want to talk and be successful just like every other.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
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Speaker 3 (19:00):
All right, so we.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Mentioned this yesterday on the show and wanted to spend
a little more time with you on it right now
as we're talking about the primary season really ramping up
and it's going to be an interesting one, folks. I
mean now we're getting Ron DeSantis officially in as of
well six pm Eastern time today, but also you can
(19:26):
see that there's some others who have thrown in already,
Senator Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswami. I think there's
pretty interesting reporting on a possibility of a young Kin
presidential presidential bid. I think it's possible. Some are even
saying likely right now, so you might have a pretty
(19:47):
interesting primary. I think a primary that hones the different
campaigns and the messages is a good thing. So we'll
have a lot to talk about, a lot to work
through all together here on this.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Program, which is great.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
But in the background of all of this, there's something
else going on, something that the Democrats are hoping to
use to subvert the very process of this election. It's
already underway and there are some updates as you know,
there's a special Council looking at Donald Trump. Now, there
(20:21):
are different things that they are saying about this. There
are different you know, components of it. There's the mar
A Lago documents aspect, and then there's the January sixth
insurrection aspect.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
But it's really just a get.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Trump operation right top to the whole thing is a
get Trump operation. Once again, they have not stopped. There's
also and we're not even going to spend much time
on this one, Clay right now, but there's the Georgia
election interference situation, right and that may also be criminal
charges for Trump. Here's the update from yesterday, Clay. I
(20:58):
want you to react to what former Attorney General Bill
Barr said, because I think he's right. I want to
know if you think he's right. But we'll get to
that in a second. Special Counsel Jack Smith is wrapping
up the investigation. According here to Axios, a bunch of
sites and I'm sure they were, you know, whoever's talking
is talking to all the lib get Trump websites out there,
(21:21):
wrapping up the classified documents issue at mar A Lago. Now,
this doesn't get into specifically the January sixth component, but
there's a belief that, based on what has already gone
on here in the evidence that has been collected, the
obstruction component of the mar A Lago documents Special Council
(21:46):
investigation could be real legal jeopardy for Trump. Bill Barr,
who I know. You know some of you have mixed
opinions on Bill Barr. He's a very smart guy and
a very smart lawyer. You get mad at me for
saying it, but you'll never find a lawyer who's a
serious person in the law who will tell you otherwise.
He knows the law really, really well, he said, and
he slammed Bragg's indictment as a total You know that
(22:09):
that's a circus, that's ridiculous. That whole thing is a joke.
But he says Trump is very legally exposed on the
on the obstruction issue here, and he says, quote yes,
I do think he will go to Sorry no, no, no, no, no,
he didn't say that. He said he's very exposed. Ty Cobb,
who was the Trump former Trump White House lawyer, said quote, yes,
(22:31):
I do think he will go to jail on us.
You've got Bar saying he's exposed. Cobb saying he thinks
he'll actually go to jail.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
What do you think, oh man, I think, I think
charges are going to be brought, and I think charges
are going to be brought. We already know New York City,
and they announced, by the way, that that trial will
take place in late March of election season, right like
right in the middle of the primary.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Don't mistake what's going on there.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Fanny willis down in Georgia, Buck, They basically cleared the
docket for the first three weeks of August. So the
expectation is Georgia, if you were she already said they're
going to do something in the summer. The expectation is,
if you're looking at your calendar, that a Trump indictment
in Georgia could happen in August. I feel like all
(23:18):
these prosecutors are talking.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Maybe they're not. I would be stunned if they aren't.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I feel like there will be an indictment for Trump
on federal issues at some point in June or July.
That would be my prediction that we will get an
indictment from the United States government the Jack Smith investigation
of Trump. If that occurs, then the question becomes, are
(23:44):
you confident that a jury would not convict Donald Trump
in in District of Columbia courts. I think he would
get convicted right now. The question that's interesting to me, Buck,
is the timing on this, because you could have a
situation where Trump is running and there is a choice
(24:09):
made about whether or not to pardon him of federal charges.
Trump could, theoretically, I think, Buck, get elected in November
of twenty four before they were able to try him
on these federal charges and pardon himself as president of
the United States. That's an interesting perspective. I think what
(24:31):
also would happen, And this is something that I would
be curious to see how it would play out. And
I have not heard anybody else analyze this, And certainly
if there are really smart attorneys out there listening and
you want to weigh in on this idea, I would
love to hear what you think. Eight hundred and two
eight two two eight A two Buck. Here's what I
would advise. If I were advising DeSantis or vivik Ramaswami
(24:54):
or Nicki Haley or Tim Scott or any of those people,
I would advise them to say, Hey, if I'm elected
president in twenty twenty four, I will pardon Donald Trump
on all federal charges, and that would effectively wipe it out. Now,
what I'm getting at here, Buck, is the only way
that Trump might ever stand charge on any of these
(25:17):
Department of Justice brought charges would be if Biden wins.
So a big part of the November election, even if
Trump were not the nominee, could end up being do
you think Trump should stand trial there?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Now?
Speaker 4 (25:31):
To be fair, you cannot pardon on state related criminal charges, right,
So Georgia's a problem. Regardless, New York City and Georgia
could still be issues. And we talked about this. We
got a great call. This is where I talk about
the brilliance of some of our callers. Remember they called
ed Buck and said, Georgia is one of like three
states in the nation where the governor of Georgia does
(25:52):
not have the ability to pardon for state related offenses.
So Brian Kemp, even though there's a Republican governor of Georgia,
would not have the ability to pardon Trump even if
he wanted to in Atlanta on.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
This case, if he were convicted.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
So I can see an opportunity, DeSantis is announcing tonight.
I can see an opportunity for DeSantis to cut a
lot of the power of the Trump indictment by saying,
if I'm elected president, I will pardon Donald Trump, and
I will keep him from serving time under what I
(26:30):
think our bogus Department of Justice investigations that are entirely
based on political related issues. Somebody out there can call
what do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Angle?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Because the argument has been if Trump gets indicted, it
strengthens him in the primary process because people rally around him,
and I think that certainly happened with March. But if
other Republican candidates out there running for president come out
and say, if I'm elected president, I will pardon Trump,
(27:00):
I don't see any way, Buck And maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I don't see any way that they could get this
trial scheduled and have a result before November of twenty
twenty four. Maybe they could try to rush it through.
This isn't Andy McCarthy question. He may be smarter on
the timing of this. I haven't heard a lot of
people talk about the timing. But we know Trump's going
to be standing trial in March in a New York
(27:28):
state court. He may have a date also in Georgia
State Court. I don't know if they could rush a case,
given all the appeals that would go on and everything
else that would get Trump in front of a jury
before the twenty twenty four election would take place. And
if you're an expert on the DC circuit and you
(27:49):
know about timing on criminal charges, I would be interested
to here. But remember on the jan sixth defendant's buck,
A lot of them are just now standing trial for
San six related I try to.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Line this up though, as just.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
A series of binaries to get closer to what is
likely here, right, someone you can do like decision tree analysis.
But do we think that Trump is going to face
charges in Georgia?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yes? We agree, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Do we think that Trump is going to face some
form of criminal charges from this special council meaning the DOJ.
Merrick Garland's going to say, you know, he's a former president,
but laws the law. I think we agree, yes, right, yes,
Do we think that either of those jury pools is
overwhelmingly likely to convict?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I think yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Then you get to well, these are serious criminal charges. Now,
this isn't some civil thing in New York that he
can wave his hand at, or some fine for the
Trump organization, especially the stuff in Georgia as I see
it right now, because I think maybe maybe it's possible
(29:04):
that you wouldn't get a prison sentence for the obstruction.
You know, obstruction is a very tough to lock up
a former player.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
It's a conspiracy charge basically, like my old Krim law
professor used to say, we got him for nothing else,
Let's get him on.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Let's get him to see obstructions like that too.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But the Georgia thing, because they might go for some
kind of a racketeering rico influence elections. I mean, they're
getting real creative with what you're seeing in the press.
I just don't understand how you can. If the charges
are brought and he's found guilty, there's gonna have to
be punishment and he'll be a convicted felon at that point, right,
(29:40):
So what's the game plan for the Democrats? I think
it has to be. They're trying to lock him up,
is what I'm getting. I think they're actually trying to.
When I say lock them up, they're not gonna lock
them up for you know, fifteen years. But if they
can even get a thirty day prison sentence for Donald
Trump think about that, which they would say is so lenient.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah. Look, Buck, here's my thing on it.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I think if a Trump's best strategy is to play
this out so it doesn't ever go before any jury
until I mean, the New York City case can't.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Get out of Georgia. It doesn't matter even if he's present.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I guess what I'm getting at is I think the
New York case is going to take months. Let's talk
about it when we come back. I'm just working through
the timing of it, leaving aside the legality of it
right now. And again, if there's somebody out there who's
brilliant on DC circuit scheduling that's listening to us right
now or Atlanta Georgia scheduling, I would love to hear
from you about why I might be wrong. Do you
(30:37):
think they could get these trials all completed by the
time people go to polls in early November of twenty
four I just don't think it's possible. In the market
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Speaker 1 (31:49):
Download and use the new Clay and Buck opp Listen
to the program live.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Catch up on any part of the show you might.
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Have missed it. Stay current with what Clay and Buck
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Speaker 4 (32:05):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. Okay, So the question
that I'm asking is one that I have not.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Seen raised anywhere.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
So I always like to think strategically, and I try
to tell my kids to do this too. Pretend that
you are the person who is in charge of making
a really important decision. I'm not in charge of making
a really important decision as it pertains to any of
Trump's criminal, civil legal related issues, right But as a lawyer,
(32:41):
one way you learn is you look at different circumstances,
try to analyze them, work on your judgment. So if
Donald Trump was like Clay Travis, you graduated from law school,
you know a little bit about media. You and Buck
have got the biggest radio show in the country right now,
how should I handle all these legal proceeds that are
going on right now? My answer, beyond a shadow of
(33:04):
a doubt Buck, is delay. Delay, delay. You want your
lawyers to file as many motions as possible, presume that
you are going to get charged, and we can talk
about what the political ramifications of those charges are. But
if I'm Donald Trump, I do not want to take
(33:28):
my seat in front of a DC jury or an
Atlanta jury until after the twenty twenty four election, right,
that's the number one goal to me.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I honestly believe that you could find a DC jury
that would find Donald Trump guilty of anything. I mean,
I think that, and I don't think it'd be hard
to find them. I think that you could find a
DC jury that would say that Trump assassinated a JFK.
Like they just don't care. They just want to get them.
(33:56):
It's ninety three percent Democrat, and these people are brave.
Remember they live. They're like the bees that are right
in the center of the hive, right, and they're right
up against it all the time, even if they don't
work in politics. DC as a city, there's this constant
osmosis of the narrative that you're subjected to by living there,
which one of the good reasons why you shouldn't stay
(34:16):
in DC for too long. But I think that that's
gonna be a huge challenge because you can't get it.
You can't get a fair jury, and there's really no
such thing as a fair jury for Trump at this
point on these issues. And I remember, this is not
did Donald Trump get drunk one night and run over
to people in the crosswalk, Like that's not political that's
how you did or you didn't ye. All of the
(34:37):
things they're going after Trump on, isn't it amazing when
you think about it, all of it it's either some
campaign finance thing or some election thing, or some conspiracy
in the Capitol. It's all politics.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Really.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
The sole exception you could come up with, and this
is why, would be the classified documents handling. But even that,
that's a government function that only you know, you only
do as the president. That's very specific to your presidential role.
So it all ties into politics in some way, and
they're coming at him from every angle.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Yeah, And the easy way to think about that is
if there was a Republican president in office, would they
have raided mar A Lago with the FBI? The answer
is of course no, right, Like, there's a zero percent
chance that raid happens if there is a Republican in office.
So my advice to Trump is delay, delayed, delay, because
buck they will You're right, they want to convict him
(35:33):
and they want to try to put him in prison,
but there's no way that can happen. I don't think
based on the schedule right now between now and November
of twenty twenty four. So Trump could theoretically either pardon
himself or DeSantis or Nicki Haley or Vivi Gramaswami or
(35:55):
Tim Scott, whoever the nominee were. If it were not,
Trump could also pledge. And I would do that right
now if I were running for office. In fact, I
would do it tonight if I were DeSantis. DeSantis is
talking to Elon musk uh and uh and and in
that conversation on spaces and then I think he's going
on Fox News tonight. By the way, he's gonna be
on with us tomorrow, so you'll be able to hear
(36:16):
DeSantis on this program tomorrow after he's already announced.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I love how you dropped as a question. He's like, yeah,
Rona said it is coming more NBD. You know, Yeah,
it's gonna be great. We're gonna have a really interesting
get I mean now it's ron de Santis candidate will
be joining us. And I just want everyone to know
this Trump phone is open. We have reached out to
the Trump team. We we're gonna you know, the equal
time for Trump. He needs to call in. He needs
to tell us what he sees going on with this primary,
(36:42):
what he sees with this legal fight. You know, let's go,
let's let's roll. We've got a lot to talk to
both of them about, no doubt, and we will break
all this down and more. But that's the I'd go
ahead and make that pledge.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
If I was DeSantis. We'll talk about it next
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in everybody. This is the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show. I'm Buck, He's Clay. We have much to
discuss with you today. As always, thanks for rolling with us.
The announcement comes in a matter of hours. Governor Ron
Dea Santis of Florida will be officially entering this race,
(00:26):
joining Elon Musk on a Twitter spaces which I think
I know what that is.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I certainly know what Twitter is, But how does this look?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
How's The Trump campaign responded, as you can imagine, not
a particularly warm welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
From the Trump team.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
At the prospect here of a Elon I mean of
a Elon launch for Ron DeSantis, which is imminent.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
We'll talk more about that.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Still hearing some stuff about how a debt ceiling.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh, it's so scary. The debt ceiling.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
We may break through without We might update you on
some of that later on in the program. It seems
like there will be a deal. The brinksmanship has gotten stale,
so some of the people who like to push it
are still hoping that you will be particularly aggravated at
the prospect of some kind of major financial crisis coming
(01:25):
along because of this, but I don't think it's going
to happen. But the budget deal, debt ceiling thing, We've
got some more for you on that.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And also.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Target is feeling the heat right now, and I think, Clay,
that's a good place for us to start, because we've seen,
for the first time, really that I can remember, in
the last I don't know, call it the last twelve
months or so, major corporations that have gone extreme left
and very woke with their products and with the way
(01:58):
they present things. We've seen them start to get meaningful pushback,
not just people saying I don't like this, but financial consequences,
which is the only thing that's going to change that
corporate behavior. Right, unless it hurts the bottom line, nothing changes.
In fact, I had been frustrated for a while because
the right had been saying go woke, go broke.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And it hadn't really been true.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I mean, you look at Colin Kaepernick, for example, somebody
who became much more famous and much wealthier because of
his wokeness. Right, there are other examples you can point to.
We say go woke, go broke, but it hadn't really
hadn't really worked out that way. In fact, I don't
know if it ever really worked out that way po
who went woke and went broke to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
It's a really it's a really good, good point.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
And this is where I think the sports media, being
so far left wing, Buck has refused to acknowledge that
the NBA and the NFL really took it on the
chin over going woke right, and they really have tried
to run in the opposite direction. It took a few
(03:05):
years for it to register. It's unlike bud Light. And
the reason why I think bud Light's so significant, Buck
is you get a direct amount of bud Light sold
every week and people can say, holy crap, they're down
twenty eight percent. We've never seen anything like this. I
think it's harder to see in some brands than others.
(03:26):
But the television ratings of the NBA have collapsed. And
I think one thing is sports media is so far
left wing that no one will even acknowledge it because
they don't want to give credit to the idea that
what we said, hey, you're alienating a huge part of
the sporting public was actually true.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
So I do think the NBA is.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
A good example of one that took it on the chin,
and I think, to a certain extent, Disney because Disney Stockbuck.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, but that's what I was gonna say, Disney.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So going back to the timeline, I was gonna say,
Disney is the beginning of what we are seeing now.
Disney was the first one that I can think of
on the NBA, in the NFL. I mean, these guys,
you know, now you get into well, who's going broke clags?
It's not the players. They're demanding more money than ever.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
They don't feel like there's any there's no hit to
their pocketbook that's happened because of this.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
But I do think it's coming.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So that so then see that's the thing if the
if the NBA takes a fifteen or twenty percent haircut
in because of the ratings, that doesn't register in a
way that everyone feels like this is a big victory.
When bud Light is down thirty percent in one quarter,
you see the work that you have. So let's just
let's again back up for a second.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Disney.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
There's this fight with Ron De Santis, and it was
interesting also to see how this plays out among conservatives
because we generally have a especially about economics. A lais
a fair attitude about things. Oh, let the market decide. Well,
that's not so clear when you have advantages being given
to a company that don't go to other companies. That
and that is also taking political action. So Disney was
(04:59):
the beginning of what we saw as pushback. And then
the bud Light phenomenon happened, which has put the fear
of the bottom line, to be sure, if not the
fear of the almighty into some of these companies. And
then we add to that now Target because of the
bathing suits that tuck away the man stuff, people are
(05:21):
showing up and saying this is a problem. And then
that brings me to the latest play. And this is
going back into the sports world. So the Los Angeles Dodgers,
and I will be honest, I have not watched a
professional baseball game, I think in almost twenty years now,
so I'm not up on the latest. But I know
of these LA Dodgers. I know they used to be
(05:41):
the Brooklyn Dodgers. A long time ago. They had they
had invited for pride celebration stuff. They invited this group
Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, And this is for their annual
LGBTQ Plus. I don't know why they're leaving out the IA.
I think that's really not inclusive enough. I'm gonna write
to the New York Times here because the IA the
(06:02):
plus isn't enough. You need the IA and then the plus.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
But they were.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
They invited the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, and then they
disinvited them, and now they've reinvited them for their June
sixteenth Celebration of Pride Night at Dodger Stadium. For anyone
who doesn't know, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence have been
around since I think the eighties. They are cross dressing
gay men who dress as nuns and engage in sexually
(06:33):
provocative public displays. You know, think strip teases, thong dances,
dressed in nuns habits, including video that you may see
circulating right now of these, you know, hairy, thirty five
year old or whatever men dressed as nuns with high
heels and thongs on doing a strip tease around somebody
(06:56):
pretending to be the crucified Jesus Christ, and we all
sit around saying, okay, first of all, why does anyone
in the Pride celebration community think the Sisters of Perpetual
Indulgence or a group that should be supported period. I
want to start with actually that one for everyone out there.
(07:16):
And then what do the LA Dodgers think the audience
that they have a lot of a lot of Catholics
in general, a lot of Christians in general, a lot
of Latino Catholics for example, who are very fond of baseball.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Probably the base of Dodger fans in LA is overwhelmingly Catholic,
Hispanic fan base.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I just have to ask you, Claig, I mean, you're
you're not a Catholic.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I am if they but if they had invited, let's say,
a group that did depictions of the prophet Mohammed and
then sexualized it and mocked the whole thing, would that
be okay? You know, if they did something that was
meant to mock Judaism, If they had a pride group
that had you know, rabbis dressed up and were then
all you know, I can't even describe on radio that
(08:02):
some of the displays that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence do,
but it's meant to absolutely graphically sexually humiliate Catholics that's
the whole point of it.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I was raised Southern Baptist, so that is my religious background.
You are Catholic in particular. But what I would say, Buck,
is what you just said. If the Dodgers, as part
of an outreach, decided that they were going to allow
a group that mocked anyone affiliated with the Jewish faith,
(08:36):
anyone affiliated with the Muslim faith, that would.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Be immediately condemned and disallowed.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
And honestly, if you mocked Mohammed, you might have to
worry about your players being murdered by terrorists and being
put on a fatwah list like we just saw happened
to Salmon Rushdi.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Or cartoons controversy, you absolutely would have to worry about
that one.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Hundred percent because they would say, you are mocking our religion.
We're going to kill you, right, And the fact that
if you mock the Muslim faith you have to worry
about being murdered. You saw what happened with Charlie Hebdo
when they published the cartoons there and they had the
attack on the I mean the satirical French. I mean
(09:24):
they had a teacher beheaded for showing a Muslim representation.
I think of Muhammad. So this to me is just
shouldn't be a bright line rule. And if you're Christian,
if you're you know, Muslim, if you're Hindu, if you're Jewish,
if you're really not really affiliated with any religion, I
(09:45):
don't understand for the Dodger perspective, And this goes for
all sports teams. How is the standard not the same
for all religions. I mean to me, if you are
going to allow the Catholic faith to be mocked, then
you have to allow all faith groups to be mocked.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And honor it, right.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I mean there's a difference between it existing and the
Dodger specifically saying we want these this is representative in
our building.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
This is specifically inviting people to go out and I
guess they gather in the stadium. They probably have something
where they go out into you know, center field or
the you know the dugout or whatever they call it
in baseball. So and just so we all understand, this
isn't like a gentle uh parody or satirizing. It's not
(10:32):
in good fun. This group, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.
I have seen the videos, I have seen the photos,
I have seen what they do, it is meant to
be not only offensive to Catholics, it's just depraved. I mean,
someone doing a striptease over whether you believe in Jesus
or not, it's a man who's being crucified on a cross,
and you have a nun dressed up who's actually a man,
(10:54):
by the way. So this stuff is depraved, it is grotesque,
it is wrong. And yet the Dodgers are more afraid
of the backlash they'll get from the activist community than
the Catholics, in particular because the nuns, obviously is what
they're going after here. And also it's interesting the activist hostility,
(11:16):
the LGBTQIA plus activist hostility toward Catholics is nothing new,
something you're not really supposed to talk about.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
You're just supposed to take it as a Catholic. But
when you see what's.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Going on here, Clay, this is another moment where it's
a gut check moment. You know, you ask yourself, Okay,
you're a Roman Catholic. You go to church, let's say
every Sunday or once a year, I don't even care.
But you're somebody who believes, you believe in the divinity of
Jesus Christ, you believe in the Bible, you believe in
the Holy Trinity.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You're gonna watch a Dodgers game after this.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
You're gonna show up. You're gonna buy tickets to go
to Dodger Stadium. You're gonna support them. You're gonna pay
fifteen dollars for crappy beer and a hot dog. I'm sorry,
thirty dollars for crappy beer and a hot dog. That's
how you want to spend your time, your dollars. You
want to support an organization like this. If you do
not bring the Dodgers to your knees, you are not
serious about standing up for your faith in the public
(12:04):
sphere as a Dodgers fan. At this point, that's just reality. Now,
people they can judge. Oh, I just love to go
with my buddies from work and whatever. You want bud
Light to feel the pain, you want target to feel
the pain. You want entities to stop doing things that corrupt,
corrode and undermine our culture, our freedom, our dignity as
(12:25):
a society, or not so. I think it's a gut
check moment for a lot of Look, I mean, I
can't pretend if I boycott baseball. Nothing happens because I
think that it's the most boring sport on television next
to golf. And I could care less, but I know
there are people listening. We got a lot of people listening,
KiB Los Angeles, people in the Los Angeles area. People
just like to watch baseball at home. I think you
just have to ask yourself, if you're a Catholic, why
(12:47):
would you continue to support this?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And I think that people say, oh, but are we
calling for boycott's. Yeah, damn right, we're calling for boycotts.
Look at what they're doing. I mean, did you see
the other day, Clay, They went viral with some story.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Oh they're banning books again in Florida. Yeah they were
re stocking books. Yeah, I know. They were the opposite
of banning. They were buying more books.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Just you know, I think at some point we come back,
let let's let's talk about this more. And I want
to open up phone lines eight hundred and two eight
two two eight eight two. What I would say is this,
at some point, I think the key here is that
there are so many people who are on the right
and in the middle, and frankly on the left, just
a little bit to the left right who disagree with
a lot of this, but they don't want to create
(13:32):
a stir. And so for so long, the far left
wing in this country has created all the stirs, and
so they have they have won in many of the
cultural battles out there, and there have been no consequences
for going too far left wing.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Zero. We have to stop turning the other cheek.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
At some point, when you get punched in the mouth,
you have to throw a punch back. And I think
that's what bud Light has shown. And I want to
talk about how this interplay exist with cancel culture, because
I see a lot of people saying, Oh, this is
canceled culture.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I'll explain what the difference is. I think there's a
misapprehension in many respects about what exactly canceled culture is.
But hey, how many of you out there wish the
Biden White House had some testosterone? How many of you
wished the LA Dodgers had some testosterone?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
What if they were.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Willing to stand up to all of this left wing
shenanigans going on on a regular basis. Testosterones down fifty
percent in our country. Do you think it's a coincidence
that bad and awful rulers have followed with a decline
and testosterone. I don't think it is weak Men make poor,
(14:42):
poor decisions.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Do you want to be a weak man? Probably not.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
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Speaker 3 (15:48):
Com, Keeping it real, keeping it honest.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexman Show. I want
to talk about something because I see a lot of
people say, how is this nut canceled? Cold?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Sure, I thought you didn't like cancel culture.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
No. Look, Choosing to spend your money or not spend
your money with a brand based on whether they respect
you is the very definition of the marketplace. Right, we
believe in the marketplace of ideas. Here, cancel culture is
I don't like your opinion, and you don't deserve the
(16:22):
right to exist. Right, you should have heard it. You
should lose your jobs, your organization, job disappear. I've not
heard anybody, and I don't think you have either. Buck say, oh,
I don't think bud Light should exist anymore. I don't
think targets should exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Now.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
If they run their business in such a way that
they go bankrupt, that's capitalism. That's how the marketplace works.
But it isn't cancel culture to make decisions on how
to spend you with your family's money with brands that
you like. It's it's really a poor I've seen that argument,
and it's a bad one. It's one of the many
bad arguments that let's make about this stuff. I mean,
is a cancel culture When Marxist lunatics who love AOC
(17:00):
choose not to watch you know, conservative commentators on TV,
on Fox or wherever you know?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Is that cancel culture?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
No making a decision, right, so you know you're making
a decision here. Cancel culture is when people try to
make it seem like someone is so beyond the pale
they're an untouchable. They must be fired, ruined and miserated
and impoverished because they said something that offended the wokeness gods.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
For a second.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's not I'm not going to buy your stuff because
I don't like what you're doing. Right, If a restaurant
is giving you bad service, it is not cancel culture.
If you just say, look, I'm not going to come back.
If you guys continue with this bad service, it's just normal. Yeah,
that's right. And by the way, if you hate this
show and you say I'm never listening to Clay and
Buck again, I hate those guys.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I mean, we hope you don't. My mom and Buck's
mom think you're imbeciles.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
But that's your right, right. We're in the marketplace every day.
We want to talk and be successful just like every other.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Bring just give us like six or seven months of
listening before you decide to make that decision. Okay, But
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Speaker 3 (19:00):
All right, so we.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Mentioned this yesterday on the show and wanted to spend
a little more time with you on it right now
as we're talking about the primary season really ramping up
and it's going to be an interesting one, folks. I
mean now we're getting Ron DeSantis officially in as of
well six pm Eastern time today, but also you can
(19:26):
see that there's some others who have thrown in already,
Senator Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswami. I think there's
pretty interesting reporting on a possibility of a young Kin
presidential presidential bid. I think it's possible. Some are even
saying likely right now, so you might have a pretty
(19:47):
interesting primary. I think a primary that hones the different
campaigns and the messages is a good thing. So we'll
have a lot to talk about, a lot to work
through all together here on this.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Program, which is great.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
But in the background of all of this, there's something
else going on, something that the Democrats are hoping to
use to subvert the very process of this election. It's
already underway and there are some updates as you know,
there's a special Council looking at Donald Trump. Now, there
(20:21):
are different things that they are saying about this. There
are different you know, components of it. There's the mar
A Lago documents aspect, and then there's the January sixth
insurrection aspect.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
But it's really just a get.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Trump operation right top to the whole thing is a
get Trump operation. Once again, they have not stopped. There's
also and we're not even going to spend much time
on this one, Clay right now, but there's the Georgia
election interference situation, right and that may also be criminal
charges for Trump. Here's the update from yesterday, Clay. I
(20:58):
want you to react to what former Attorney General Bill
Barr said, because I think he's right. I want to
know if you think he's right. But we'll get to
that in a second. Special Counsel Jack Smith is wrapping
up the investigation. According here to Axios, a bunch of
sites and I'm sure they were, you know, whoever's talking
is talking to all the lib get Trump websites out there,
(21:21):
wrapping up the classified documents issue at mar A Lago. Now,
this doesn't get into specifically the January sixth component, but
there's a belief that, based on what has already gone
on here in the evidence that has been collected, the
obstruction component of the mar A Lago documents Special Council
(21:46):
investigation could be real legal jeopardy for Trump. Bill Barr,
who I know. You know some of you have mixed
opinions on Bill Barr. He's a very smart guy and
a very smart lawyer. You get mad at me for
saying it, but you'll never find a lawyer who's a
serious person in the law who will tell you otherwise.
He knows the law really, really well, he said, and
he slammed Bragg's indictment as a total You know that
(22:09):
that's a circus, that's ridiculous. That whole thing is a joke.
But he says Trump is very legally exposed on the
on the obstruction issue here, and he says, quote yes,
I do think he will go to Sorry no, no, no, no, no,
he didn't say that. He said he's very exposed. Ty Cobb,
who was the Trump former Trump White House lawyer, said quote, yes,
(22:31):
I do think he will go to jail on us.
You've got Bar saying he's exposed. Cobb saying he thinks
he'll actually go to jail.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
What do you think, oh man, I think, I think
charges are going to be brought, and I think charges
are going to be brought. We already know New York City,
and they announced, by the way, that that trial will
take place in late March of election season, right like
right in the middle of the primary.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Don't mistake what's going on there.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Fanny willis down in Georgia, Buck, They basically cleared the
docket for the first three weeks of August. So the
expectation is Georgia, if you were she already said they're
going to do something in the summer. The expectation is,
if you're looking at your calendar, that a Trump indictment
in Georgia could happen in August. I feel like all
(23:18):
these prosecutors are talking.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Maybe they're not. I would be stunned if they aren't.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I feel like there will be an indictment for Trump
on federal issues at some point in June or July.
That would be my prediction that we will get an
indictment from the United States government the Jack Smith investigation
of Trump. If that occurs, then the question becomes, are
(23:44):
you confident that a jury would not convict Donald Trump
in in District of Columbia courts. I think he would
get convicted right now. The question that's interesting to me, Buck,
is the timing on this, because you could have a
situation where Trump is running and there is a choice
(24:09):
made about whether or not to pardon him of federal charges.
Trump could, theoretically, I think, Buck, get elected in November
of twenty four before they were able to try him
on these federal charges and pardon himself as president of
the United States. That's an interesting perspective. I think what
(24:31):
also would happen, And this is something that I would
be curious to see how it would play out. And
I have not heard anybody else analyze this, And certainly
if there are really smart attorneys out there listening and
you want to weigh in on this idea, I would
love to hear what you think. Eight hundred and two
eight two two eight A two Buck. Here's what I
would advise. If I were advising DeSantis or vivik Ramaswami
(24:54):
or Nicki Haley or Tim Scott or any of those people,
I would advise them to say, Hey, if I'm elected
president in twenty twenty four, I will pardon Donald Trump
on all federal charges, and that would effectively wipe it out. Now,
what I'm getting at here, Buck, is the only way
that Trump might ever stand charge on any of these
(25:17):
Department of Justice brought charges would be if Biden wins.
So a big part of the November election, even if
Trump were not the nominee, could end up being do
you think Trump should stand trial there?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Now?
Speaker 4 (25:31):
To be fair, you cannot pardon on state related criminal charges, right,
So Georgia's a problem. Regardless, New York City and Georgia
could still be issues. And we talked about this. We
got a great call. This is where I talk about
the brilliance of some of our callers. Remember they called
ed Buck and said, Georgia is one of like three
states in the nation where the governor of Georgia does
(25:52):
not have the ability to pardon for state related offenses.
So Brian Kemp, even though there's a Republican governor of Georgia,
would not have the ability to pardon Trump even if
he wanted to in Atlanta on.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
This case, if he were convicted.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
So I can see an opportunity, DeSantis is announcing tonight.
I can see an opportunity for DeSantis to cut a
lot of the power of the Trump indictment by saying,
if I'm elected president, I will pardon Donald Trump, and
I will keep him from serving time under what I
(26:30):
think our bogus Department of Justice investigations that are entirely
based on political related issues. Somebody out there can call
what do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Angle?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Because the argument has been if Trump gets indicted, it
strengthens him in the primary process because people rally around him,
and I think that certainly happened with March. But if
other Republican candidates out there running for president come out
and say, if I'm elected president, I will pardon Trump,
(27:00):
I don't see any way, Buck And maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I don't see any way that they could get this
trial scheduled and have a result before November of twenty
twenty four. Maybe they could try to rush it through.
This isn't Andy McCarthy question. He may be smarter on
the timing of this. I haven't heard a lot of
people talk about the timing. But we know Trump's going
to be standing trial in March in a New York
(27:28):
state court. He may have a date also in Georgia
State Court. I don't know if they could rush a case,
given all the appeals that would go on and everything
else that would get Trump in front of a jury
before the twenty twenty four election would take place. And
if you're an expert on the DC circuit and you
(27:49):
know about timing on criminal charges, I would be interested
to here. But remember on the jan sixth defendant's buck,
A lot of them are just now standing trial for
San six related I try to.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Line this up though, as just.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
A series of binaries to get closer to what is
likely here, right, someone you can do like decision tree analysis.
But do we think that Trump is going to face
charges in Georgia?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yes? We agree, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Do we think that Trump is going to face some
form of criminal charges from this special council meaning the DOJ.
Merrick Garland's going to say, you know, he's a former president,
but laws the law. I think we agree, yes, right, yes,
Do we think that either of those jury pools is
overwhelmingly likely to convict?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I think yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Then you get to well, these are serious criminal charges. Now,
this isn't some civil thing in New York that he
can wave his hand at, or some fine for the
Trump organization, especially the stuff in Georgia as I see
it right now, because I think maybe maybe it's possible
(29:04):
that you wouldn't get a prison sentence for the obstruction.
You know, obstruction is a very tough to lock up
a former player.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
It's a conspiracy charge basically, like my old Krim law
professor used to say, we got him for nothing else,
Let's get him on.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Let's get him to see obstructions like that too.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But the Georgia thing, because they might go for some
kind of a racketeering rico influence elections. I mean, they're
getting real creative with what you're seeing in the press.
I just don't understand how you can. If the charges
are brought and he's found guilty, there's gonna have to
be punishment and he'll be a convicted felon at that point, right,
(29:40):
So what's the game plan for the Democrats? I think
it has to be. They're trying to lock him up,
is what I'm getting. I think they're actually trying to.
When I say lock them up, they're not gonna lock
them up for you know, fifteen years. But if they
can even get a thirty day prison sentence for Donald
Trump think about that, which they would say is so lenient.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah. Look, Buck, here's my thing on it.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I think if a Trump's best strategy is to play
this out so it doesn't ever go before any jury
until I mean, the New York City case can't.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Get out of Georgia. It doesn't matter even if he's present.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I guess what I'm getting at is I think the
New York case is going to take months. Let's talk
about it when we come back. I'm just working through
the timing of it, leaving aside the legality of it
right now. And again, if there's somebody out there who's
brilliant on DC circuit scheduling that's listening to us right
now or Atlanta Georgia scheduling, I would love to hear
from you about why I might be wrong. Do you
(30:37):
think they could get these trials all completed by the
time people go to polls in early November of twenty
four I just don't think it's possible. In the market
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Speaker 1 (31:49):
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Speaker 4 (32:05):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. Okay, So the question
that I'm asking is one that I have not.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Seen raised anywhere.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
So I always like to think strategically, and I try
to tell my kids to do this too. Pretend that
you are the person who is in charge of making
a really important decision. I'm not in charge of making
a really important decision as it pertains to any of
Trump's criminal, civil legal related issues, right But as a lawyer,
(32:41):
one way you learn is you look at different circumstances,
try to analyze them, work on your judgment. So if
Donald Trump was like Clay Travis, you graduated from law school,
you know a little bit about media. You and Buck
have got the biggest radio show in the country right now,
how should I handle all these legal proceeds that are
going on right now? My answer, beyond a shadow of
(33:04):
a doubt Buck, is delay. Delay, delay. You want your
lawyers to file as many motions as possible, presume that
you are going to get charged, and we can talk
about what the political ramifications of those charges are. But
if I'm Donald Trump, I do not want to take
(33:28):
my seat in front of a DC jury or an
Atlanta jury until after the twenty twenty four election, right,
that's the number one goal to me.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I honestly believe that you could find a DC jury
that would find Donald Trump guilty of anything. I mean,
I think that, and I don't think it'd be hard
to find them. I think that you could find a
DC jury that would say that Trump assassinated a JFK.
Like they just don't care. They just want to get them.
(33:56):
It's ninety three percent Democrat, and these people are brave.
Remember they live. They're like the bees that are right
in the center of the hive, right, and they're right
up against it all the time, even if they don't
work in politics. DC as a city, there's this constant
osmosis of the narrative that you're subjected to by living there,
which one of the good reasons why you shouldn't stay
(34:16):
in DC for too long. But I think that that's
gonna be a huge challenge because you can't get it.
You can't get a fair jury, and there's really no
such thing as a fair jury for Trump at this
point on these issues. And I remember, this is not
did Donald Trump get drunk one night and run over
to people in the crosswalk, Like that's not political that's
how you did or you didn't ye. All of the
(34:37):
things they're going after Trump on, isn't it amazing when
you think about it, all of it it's either some
campaign finance thing or some election thing, or some conspiracy
in the Capitol. It's all politics.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Really.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
The sole exception you could come up with, and this
is why, would be the classified documents handling. But even that,
that's a government function that only you know, you only
do as the president. That's very specific to your presidential role.
So it all ties into politics in some way, and
they're coming at him from every angle.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Yeah, And the easy way to think about that is
if there was a Republican president in office, would they
have raided mar A Lago with the FBI? The answer
is of course no, right, Like, there's a zero percent
chance that raid happens if there is a Republican in office.
So my advice to Trump is delay, delayed, delay, because
buck they will You're right, they want to convict him
(35:33):
and they want to try to put him in prison,
but there's no way that can happen. I don't think
based on the schedule right now between now and November
of twenty twenty four. So Trump could theoretically either pardon
himself or DeSantis or Nicki Haley or Vivi Gramaswami or
(35:55):
Tim Scott, whoever the nominee were. If it were not,
Trump could also pledge. And I would do that right
now if I were running for office. In fact, I
would do it tonight if I were DeSantis. DeSantis is
talking to Elon musk uh and uh and and in
that conversation on spaces and then I think he's going
on Fox News tonight. By the way, he's gonna be
on with us tomorrow, so you'll be able to hear
(36:16):
DeSantis on this program tomorrow after he's already announced.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I love how you dropped as a question. He's like, yeah,
Rona said it is coming more NBD. You know, Yeah,
it's gonna be great. We're gonna have a really interesting
get I mean now it's ron de Santis candidate will
be joining us. And I just want everyone to know
this Trump phone is open. We have reached out to
the Trump team. We we're gonna you know, the equal
time for Trump. He needs to call in. He needs
to tell us what he sees going on with this primary,
(36:42):
what he sees with this legal fight. You know, let's go,
let's let's roll. We've got a lot to talk to
both of them about, no doubt, and we will break
all this down and more. But that's the I'd go
ahead and make that pledge.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
If I was DeSantis. We'll talk about it next
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