October 6, 2023 • 36 mins
Incentives and outcomes in immigration and sexual harassment. Texts reveal fired Michigan State football coach Mel Tucker was extorted by phone sex accuser. Clay's wife Lara passes the bar. Clay reads text messages between Mel Tucker and accuser. Sexual assault is real, but "Believe All Women" makes no sense. Clay takes a call from a rape survivor on how phony sexual assault allegations hurt real victims.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in Friday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Buck has the day off, which.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Means you'll be rolling with me headed into the weekend
over the next three hours. Right now, we are scheduled
to be joined by my friend from the Great State
of Texas, Representative Chip Roy, to talk about the house
speaker debate and the ensuing fallout at one we will
probably also talk a little bit about his longhorns and
(00:35):
his wives Texas A and m Aggie's as that is
a big rivalry for those of you in the Lone
Star State. That's soon what we'll return next year when
both are going to be in the SEC. But I'm
headed down to the Great State of Texas tomorrow for
the Alabama against Texas A and M game. There'll also
be a big game going on up in Dallas between
(00:55):
Texas and Oklahoma. As many of you get ready for
what should be a fun fall weekend, We've got a
lot to hit you with During the course of the program,
will continue to update you on the fight for who
should be the house speaker. As we predicted on this show,
I think two days ago, certainly yesterday, Donald Trump has
(01:16):
endorsed Representative Jim Jordan from Ohio. You have heard Jim
Jordan on this show for years now. He's a friend
to both Buck and myself. I think he would do
a fabulous job as Speaker of the House. I said
that I think he's the right choice because I think
he can bring together the MAGA element and the more
moderate elements of this Republican Party and help to fight
(01:40):
for the things that matter against the Biden administration.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And so we may even hear from Jim today. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
He's been obviously busy, as you can imagine, trying to
corral votes, but I was texting with him earlier his staff.
We may hear from him today. If we don't, I'm
confident we'll hear from.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Him next week.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
But we'll talk with Chip Roy about the latest in
the battle there in the primary. Ron DeSantis has finally
taken off the gloves and he is throwing haymaker punches
at Donald Trump right now.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Are they going to land? Will they matter?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
We will discuss that in a conjunction with what I
think is a really fascinating motion that was filed by
Trump in Washington, d c. That I think has some
legitimate basis in the law to potentially knock out the
criminal charges against him related to what he did while
(02:34):
he was president of the United States based on past precedent.
We will discuss that as well, but I want to
start with a story that I believe goes to the
heart of incentives and how when you make bad incentives,
you create bad outcomes. And you've heard Bucket me both
talk about the issue at the United States Southern border
(02:57):
and the reason why so many people are crossing the
southern and border ultimately boils down to two incentives that
exist that, so long as they exist, are going to
continue to drive people to leave their.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Countries and try to come here. One.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You can make twenty thirty forty times as much money
if you leave the country that you are in right
now and make it to the United States. There are
a lot of you listening to me right now that
like your jobs. If you could make twenty five percent
more money doing a similar job, many of you would say, yeah,
(03:36):
I'm leaving. An extra ten thousand dollars a year would
make a tremendous difference for you and your family. You
would go to a new job. The reason you would
go is the incentive of more money. Almost every single
person listening to me right now, if I told you
that you could make twenty times as much money as
you make now if you would go to Canada, almost
(04:01):
all of you would go. I think there are very
few of you that would say, you know what, I'm
so happy where I am right now in my job
that I will turn down twenty times as much money
to go to Canada and do a similar potential job.
So jobs is one incentive. The other, as we have
talked about, is birthright citizenship. If you lived in a
(04:24):
country without basic human rights and you wanted to have
a family, and you knew that if you had a
son or daughter in the United States, that son or
daughter would immediately become an American, you would be very
incentivized also to try to come to the United States.
Both of those incentives create the seven million plus illegals
(04:46):
that have then continued across our southern border, and certainly
failure to stop anyone from coming into the country. Removing barriers,
not building walls, all of that provides even more of
an incentive for people to come because the risk of
not getting in is comparatively low.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Okay, we know that goes on at the border.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I want to talk about this other story that I
have been discussing that I bet a lot of you
have not paid much attention to. There's a head football
coach was a head football coach at Michigan State University.
It's a guy by the name of mel Tucker, and
I think his story is emblematic of the incentive structure
(05:27):
that was created in the wake of the Brett Kavanaugh
hearings and the me too movement.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
And it is the hashtag Believe All Women.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I didn't really hear much about that hashtag until Brett
Kavanaugh was framed as he attempted to rise to become
a Supreme Court justice. All of the allegations, and I
say this as a lawyer who has done criminal law,
I dove into I analyzed. I know Buck felt the
same way. They were all complete and total crap, and
(05:59):
they wore a political hit job on Brett Cavanaugh. You
can say even that was a natural outgrowth of the
political hit job that was put in place that they
went after Clarence Thomas on. But it really went to
the next level because I don't remember during the Anita
Hill hearings, anybody trying to argue hashtag believe all women.
In fact, Joe Biden, who was then the chairman of
(06:22):
the Senate Judiciary Committee, to my best recollection, actually gave
a somewhat supportive as Democrats go version of that hearing
for Clarence Thomas. That was in a different time. Now,
Joe Biden, of course, would say that Clarence Thomas.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Was guilty the moment he was accused.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Despite the fact that Joe Biden himself is credibly accused
of sexual assault to a far greater degree than almost
anyone in the world of politics, and certainly anyone who's
sitting on the Supreme Court today. Yes, I'm talking about
Tara Reid. But what happened when you say believe all women?
The argument is, well, there's lots of women out there
(07:03):
who are sexually assaulted and they don't come forward. And
certainly I believe if you've been a victim of violent
crime you should always come forward. But when you say
believe all women, you are by default saying don't believe men,
and you are therefore telling larger segments of the American public,
many of whom are honest, but also many of whom
(07:23):
are dishonest, that if you tell a story, the media
is going to be predisposed to believe you and disbelieve
the other person solely based on your gender. And that's
I believe what's happened at Michigan State University yesterday. You
might have heard me mention this on this show, but
(07:43):
let me give you a rough synopsis of what happened.
Michigan State then head football coach Mel Tucker, who has
a massive nine and a half million dollar contract, got
a ninety five million dollar I believe it was ten
year contract to coach football at Michigan State Universe, one
of the elite Big ten football institutions and the country.
(08:04):
Football is a big deal there. If you're not a
football fan, understand that. So Mel Tucker hires a woman
named Brenda Tracy to come talk to his football team
about the importance of not committing sexual assault and not
putting yourself in positions where you could be accused of
(08:27):
committing sexual assault. Basically, he teaches his team wants to
teach his team how young men should conduct themselves to
make sure that they are avoiding of trouble with women
while they are members of the Michigan State football team.
This woman, Brenda Tracy, comes and speaks. I believe once
(08:49):
spring game at Michigan State, then they develop a relationship.
Mel Tucker, by his own descriptions, has is man married
but is basically staying with his wife until the kids
are old enough to graduate from high school.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
That's public, that's out there.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I don't like to dive into anybody's own marriage, but
it's known that he and his wife are basically partners
in raising their kids until they become graduate from high school,
and then they're going to go in their own own way.
My understanding is they sleep in different bedrooms, they have
limited interaction, but they want to raise their kids to
go to adulthood and then potentially they're going to go
(09:31):
in different directions. Again, I don't like to get into marriages,
but everybody wants to dive into this marriage because of
the situation that is ensued. Both he and Brenda Tracy
seem to be interested in each other. They had, according
to established record, twenty seven phone calls that lasted more
than thirty minutes, twenty seven of them. I don't know
(09:54):
how many of you out there have engaged in twenty
seven phone calls of over thirty minutes with anyone in
the country. I would submit that that's fairly rare. The
younger you are, the less likely it is. I actually
think I have not had twenty seven to thirty minute
plus phone calls with anyone in the last year. Certainly
(10:14):
not my wife, certainly not my mom, not even the
people who are closest to me. I communicate primarily by text,
uh and you know, short phone calls. They were interested
in each other. One particular phone call lasted thirty six minutes,
(10:35):
Brenda Tracy. Brenda Tracy came out and said, after that
thirty six well, let me tell you what happened on
the thirty six minute phone call. Both parties acknowledge that
phone sex occurred. Thirty six minute phone call. Phone sex
occurs After that phone call. At some point in time,
mel Tucker decided, you know what, this relationship has gone
(10:58):
too far.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
It's gotten personal.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm going to cut this relationship off, and he decided
not to have this woman come talk to his team again.
He canceled the speaking engagement. When that happened, Brenda Tracy
decided that the phone sex months after it happened had
(11:23):
actually been non consensual. This thirty six minute phone call
that happened. She said she froze and she couldn't hang up,
and she turned mel Tucker in to Michigan State University,
and Michigan State University fired him, and they said, we're
not going to pay you the eighty million dollars remaining
(11:45):
on your contract. Now, I said, you might have heard
me talk about it on the show because I thought
it was so emblematic. I said, this is this, This
story on its face doesn't make sense. You can't have
a thirty six minute phone call, claim that you frozen
couldn't hang up, and then retroactively months later say you
(12:07):
didn't consent to phone sex and demand that the head
football coach get fired. What really happened, I think is
she was I told you all this. I think she
wanted a serious relationship with him, he decided to cut
it off. She went fatal attraction, turned him in and
tried to make him pay.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Michigan State fired him.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
When we come back, the text messages came out yesterday.
There is now one hundred percent evidence that Brenda Tracy
made up this entire story because she wanted to get
paid her own text messages. Make this case, Mel Tucker
(12:53):
has still lost his job. We've also got the Trevor
Bauer situation. I think this is all directly connected to
Brett Kavanaugh and the incentives that we build when we
say believe all women men are liars. I'm going to
open up phone lines because I would like to hear
from people. Eight hundred two eight two two eight eight two.
I think this is a big story because it's your nephews.
(13:16):
They are being accused of sexual assault and they're having
kangaroo courts on college campuses everywhere. They get no opportunity
to defend themselves, and they are being roundly condemned, oftentimes
when they are, as is the case with mel Tucker
one hundred percent innocent. What happens when incentives are broken?
(13:41):
What can we learn from our failures? And why are
so few people willing to speak out and tell the truth.
This is a big story I want to dive into
here right off the top of the show today, Buck.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
We'll be back on Monday.
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Speaker 1 (14:43):
Clay Travis at buck Sexton Making Sense in an Insane World.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. I'm going
to read these text messages now for all of you.
A lot of you are gonna want a way in.
But during the commercial break, got good news. I want
to congratulate my wife Laura, who passed the bar exam.
So we're talking about legal related issues. We met in
(15:10):
two thousand and one at Vanderbilt Law School. She left
finished the first year, left had three kids, decided she
wanted to go back and finish the bar exam, and
so she finished law school this past May and now
has passed the Tennessee Bar. So I think, again, I
(15:31):
don't have any problem bragging on myself, but she doesn't
like when I brag on her. I think, I don't
think there's any moms out there. I know, certainly not
at the history of Vanderbilt Law School that have ever
started law school had three kids and then gone back
and finished the final two years of law school and
become a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So I would say, just in general.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Whatever Hope's dreams aspirations you have, whether your dad or
a mom, it's never too late to go back and
be able to get them done. She had to do
all sorts of work to even get in. Vanderbilt had
never had a student request to do this before, and
so I'm super proud of her. I didn't even want
to talk about it much on the air because I
(16:15):
didn't want her to be targeted because she happens to
be my wife. But now she's passed the bar. She's
good to go, and I am super proud of her.
So again, twenty was the math. I'm doing the math here.
Twenty two years after she first entered law school, she
is now a graduate of vanderbil Law School and a
(16:35):
licensed attorney in the state of Tennessee. And I'm going
to lose even more arguments in the Travis household than
I have been losing before because now she is a
bonafide JD. I said that I was going to read
these text messages. I am, but I want to give
them time to breathe, so I will read them when
I come back. We're talking about the importance of incentives
(16:56):
and how hashtag Believe All Women is now leaving one
hundred percent innocent men who have done nothing illegal, nothing improper. Again,
melt Tucker is not accused of any crime at all.
All he did was engage in one instance of phone sex.
He lost an eighty million dollar job because this woman
decided it was the best way for her to get
(17:17):
paid by claiming that it was non consensual, and almost
nobody in the media is even willing to talk about it,
which is another part of this story because they're afraid
they're going to end up the target. The truth matters,
Honesty matters. I'm going to read you these text messages.
Your jaw is going to drop, and you're going to
ask yourself, how isn't this the biggest story in America
right now? Why are so few people willing to actually
(17:40):
cover this story? And what in the world is Michigan
State doing? They should immediately reinstate Mel Tucker and they
should apologize to him. It's an embarrassment for a university
to be behaving in this manner. I'll lay it all
out for you when we come back, but in the meantime,
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Speaker 1 (18:48):
Lay Travis and buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton show A lot
of you want to weigh In.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Eight hundred two two eight A two.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
We're talking about mel Tucker being railroaded by Michigan State
University believing a woman who is I'm about to read
you the text messages I think quite clearly lying about
their relationship. I said on this show some time ago
because I find it so patently absurd. How do you
have non consensual phone sex? How is it possible that
(19:28):
you aren't able to hang up if someone is saying
something to you on the phone that you don't like.
From the moment this story started, I felt like I
was taking crazy pills because I look at all the evidence.
I look at the undisputed facts, and I analyze them.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I say, are you is this real? I'm not saying
mel Tucker's a saint.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Certainly it doesn't sound like he has a perfect marriage,
or an ideal marriage, or a marriage necessarily that you
would want to be involved in yourself. But it's a
huge percentage of you out there listening right now who
have been in difficult marriages, who may be divorced.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Again. He got fired.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
This is how far the expansive the idea of consent
has now moved to. There's no argument that he touched her,
that he behaved inappropriately, that there's any criminal allegation at all.
He got fired for what was claimed to be non
consensual phone sex, and I just said, I don't believe
that's possible, right, Like, does your phone not have a
(20:30):
hangout button? We know that that phone call in question
lasted thirty six minutes. I don't think I've been on
a thirty six minute phone call this year. So here
are the text messages that I want to read to you,
and this was put out in the hearing yesterday. She
tried them to lead all of her text messages. Brinda
(20:52):
Tracy did. Her assistant died in a car accident and
she tried to rush at the hospital. She was asking
whether she could get access to her assistants text messages,
and the family thought it was super weird and now
we know why she lobbied for She said, First of all,
(21:13):
she talked all about how much money Meltucker had. Talk
about how he got ninety five million dollar contract. That's
seven hundred thousand dollars a month. Can you imagine what
it would be like to have that kind of wealth.
She then texted, I'm filing a formal complaint with Michigan State.
My lawyer said after that, we can let him know
we want to come to an agreement that it doesn't
(21:34):
have to go to a hearing or anything unless he
wants it to.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
So she's looking for money literally.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
In her own text message to her assistant and assistant's
text message, she claimed she deleted all of her text message.
The only reason we have access to this is because
her assistant who died. They weren't cleansed off of her devices. Evidently,
she told her assistant her attorney was reaching out to
Michigan State regarding a settlement, and that money is my
(22:04):
only recourse to make him feel like there is a
punishment when they do the money. I should make him
pay me ten grand directly. She's been tweeting, sorry, texting
her assistant. Tucker signed his contract. I can't even.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Wrap my brain around ninety five.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Million, she's Can you imagine around seven hundred thousand going
into your bank account every month? Every month. We're gonna
make it happen. I'm gonna ask him to finance the
doc she was evidently making a movie.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
He'll do it.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
One week before she filed her complaint against Tucker, demanding money,
she admitted she was down to the final five dollars
in her checking account. After having filed the complaint, she
texted again. These are her text messages. Imagine the victim
is taking on a ninety five million dollar coach. She
(23:00):
often referred to herself and the third person as the
victim as well as a good victim in many of
her text messages. In connection, I'm reading from the Meltucker letter.
In connection with realizing that quote, she was supposed to
be paying down twenty eighteen taxes. She was owed money
(23:21):
to the irs not caught up in other years. She
said to her assistant, quote having the irs after me
in a way that it's known publicly, surely won't help
my lawsuit. She admitted in writing that she engages in
quote professional crying when I share my story. She claims
(23:44):
to be a victim of sexual assault. That is her business.
She goes and talks about her life as the sexual
assault victim. She then said that she was in dire
straits financially and said that her priority is a facelift
and filming myself so we can make this money. These
(24:05):
are again from a letter that mel Tucker put forward
to Michigan State. I'm reading some more details from the
text messages. She also again according to according to this
statement as detailed in a witnesses sworn statement, while this
(24:28):
woman's friend lay dying in a hospital, this is her assistant,
and even after her death, missus Tracy sought to sleep
over at this woman's house and repeatedly asked family for
access to her assistant's phone and computers. According to a
sworn statement, it really struck me odd that she would
(24:50):
want her things and would be asking for them as
her assistant lay dying in her hospital bed. After the
doctor told us that that the woman was not her
assistant was not going to make it. Brenda Tracy stated,
according to this affidavit, I need to call my therapist
because I don't feel supported right now. Can you imagine
(25:15):
being in the hospital with someone dying. Your assistant is
dying and you say in front of her family, I
need to call my therapist because I don't feel supported
right now. You know who probably doesn't feel very supported,
the dead lady. This chick is crazy, and yet her
(25:37):
story was accepted as one hundred percent truth. She said
that she never engaged in personal relationships with anybody that
she worked with, because mel Tucker's defense is we were
engaged in a personal relationship. They've uncovered that she was
sleeping with at least one other married head coach in
(26:02):
college that she was working with. I'm not gonna name
him because I'm sure he's having a rough day right now.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
But this is wild.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
She also, in text messages reached claims she claims she
was a victim because her name came out. Professional victim
claims she's a professional victim. Her own text messages show
that she was regularly texting reporters at USA Today and ESPN,
(26:38):
tipping them off and asking them to write favorable stories
about her being a victim of non consensual phone sex.
I mean, I can't believe this story is real. Again,
these are her own text messages. I am reading from
the filing of mel Tucker's attorneys. Mel Tucker, the fire
(27:00):
coach at Michigan State.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
What is going on here? How is this not a
story that is everywhere?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Sometimes I feel fortunate to run out kick and to
have this platform, to be able to talk to all
of you every single day, because very often, and I'm
sure a lot of you feel like this too. I
feel like I'm taking crazy pills because I see stories
and I'm like, how is this not the number one
story in America? Mel Tucker got railroaded by what appears
(27:36):
to be a lying woman who was seeking his money.
By her own words, from her own text messages, how
does this happen? It's the incentive structure we have created.
And some of you might be saying, well, I don't
care about Michigan State, I don't care about mel Tucker.
(27:57):
Do you care about Brett Kavanaugh. Do you care about
Trevor Bauer? Do you care about who knows Russell Brand?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Maybe? Now, I want to be clear, sexual assault is real.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Just because some women are lying doesn't mean all women
are lying.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
But women should be furious about this.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
And sexual assault survivors should be the most angry, because
when a woman lies for money, as has happened this
week with Trevor Bauer, former star pitcher of the Cincinnati
Reds and the Dodgers, and Mel Tucker just this week alone,
two different sexual assault accusers have been proven to be
(28:43):
one hundred percent liars. If you believe that sexual assault
is a serious problem, and I do, you should be
furious at these women because they actually make it harder
for true victims to come forward. And So, if you
don't care about Trevor Bauer, and you don't care about
Mel Tucker, and you don't care about Kavanaugh, do you
(29:05):
care about your sons? Do you care about your fathers,
your grandfathers, your uncles, your cousins, your nephews. When you
say believe all women by default, you say all men lie.
And when you say that, you create an incentive for
(29:29):
dishonest women to have cash registers going off in their
head as it's clear Brenda Tracy did. And what's crazy
here is no one's even talking about this. A lot
of you are listening to me in Michigan right now.
(29:51):
We got a monster new affiliate in the Detroit area,
a lot of Michigan State fans up there. Is this
the number one story in Michigan? I bet it's not.
How could it not be objectively? How could this not
be the number one story by itself in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I think it should be the number one story to America.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I think you should go on Foxnews dot com right now.
It should be the top of the page. I think
you should go on CNN dot com. I think it
should be at the top of the page. I think
you should be the top of the page of New York Times.
I think it should be the top of the page
of Washington Post. Mel Tucker is getting fired by a
woman who is lying about their relationship and was doing
all of this to try to get him fired solely
(30:36):
for money. Why is this not the number one story
in America? Because there's a lot of cowards out there,
This is my answer. I think there's a lot of
people who when the narrative doesn't fit what they want
the narrative to be. They want the man to be
the powerful, rich man. They want him to be the villain.
White man, black man, Asian man, hispananman, doesn't matter. They
(30:58):
want the man to be the villain here and the
woman to be the victim. That's the narrative arc, and
they're afraid to one upset the narrative arc.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Two. There's a lot of men in media.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
They're afraid that they'll be a target if they speak
out on this story and point out how dishonest it is.
I sometimes again feel like I take crazy pills because
I look around and I think to myself, how is
nobody else covering this? And the answer is because the
truth doesn't matter very much.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
In media today.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
It's a sad reality. And if you ever find yourself
in a media story, you'll understand this. I was driving
in the car with my kids yesterday. I picked them
up at school, my two oldest. They're old enough now
to understand it, fifteen and thirteen. Every now and then
they'll say, Dad, I saw you on YouTube, or they
watch YouTube. They don't watch television other than sports with me,
(31:55):
and they'll say, Dad, I saw you on television or
I saw you they said I saw you on YouTube,
And I always have the same conversation with him. I say,
you know what, guys, that's fun. That's all great that
people might have opinions of me. It can be positive
or negative. Don't pay attention to what anybody says about
your dad outside of the house.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Like do you think they know me as well as you?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Guys, do judge people based on what you know, not
based on what others say about them who know them
a lot worse than you do. It's a good lesson
for all of life. But my goodness, open phone lines
will take some of your calls.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Here. Chip Roy going to join its top of the
next hour.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
By the way, I bet he has a take on
this too, because he is pretty plugged in on stories
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Speaker 1 (33:22):
Download and used then you Clay and Bucks. Listen to
the program live. Catch up on any part of the
show you might have missed.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
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Speaker 1 (33:32):
Fine the Clay and Buck app in your app store
and make it part of your day.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton show. A lot
of you want to weigh in, but Danielle reached out.
She's a listener of the show. Danielle, let you describe
you are a rape survivor. You have helped to bring
awareness to these issues. Tell us where you work, what
you do and your reaction to this story.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Yes, sir, thank you for having me on the program.
I really appreciate that. I actually am a rape survivor,
activist and advocate and have been for the last fifteen years.
I stepped forward as a named victim of Richard Gilmour,
who was the Jogger rapist, and since then, that was
two thousand and eight, and since then I pretty much
(34:19):
have dedicated my life to working on issues surrounded around
sexual assault. So in various states, I've changed over a
dozen different laws and have worked on the rape kit backlog,
have worked nationally with the Joyful Heart Foundation and with
RAIN so got quite a resume, and I currently in
(34:43):
Oklahoma belonged to the Governor's Sexual Assault Kit Task Force
and am still changing laws between Oregon and Oklahoma on
different related issues, you know, surrounding sexual assault and the
sex offender Registry and and things like that that actually
affect me directly.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Well, thank you for all the work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And certainly the rape kit backlog that exists all over
this country is indefensible and should be rectified. So I
appreciate all the work you're doing there and the bravery
for speaking. Now do you know Brenda Tracy, what do
you think of this story based on the text messages
and all of the details that have come out.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
You know, I do know Brenda Tracy. I actually worked
with her in Oregon and we both actually served on
the Governor's Sexual Assault Kit Task Force in Oregon as well,
and we both worked on that legislation. So I don't
have a close relationship with Brenda, but I definitely have
(35:45):
been following the story very closely just because I do
know Brenda. I guess my first question, you know, when
it first broke about what was happening, the text mesthod
I think was to me was the red flag with
the deleted text messages on both sides. The first thing
(36:08):
that came to my mind is that we really do
need to know what was in those text messages to
be able to prove one side or the other. And
I think with the release of those I think we're
getting a little bit more of a clear picture as
to the relationship and possible other relationships with others as well.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And in general, your position would be women who lie
are the enemy of true victims, right, women, regardless, this
is the worst thing that you could do. You want
everybody to speak forward, but people have to be.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Honest, right, And this case I think is by far
still not over and done.
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome in Friday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Buck has the day off, which.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Means you'll be rolling with me headed into the weekend
over the next three hours. Right now, we are scheduled
to be joined by my friend from the Great State
of Texas, Representative Chip Roy, to talk about the house
speaker debate and the ensuing fallout at one we will
probably also talk a little bit about his longhorns and
(00:35):
his wives Texas A and m Aggie's as that is
a big rivalry for those of you in the Lone
Star State. That's soon what we'll return next year when
both are going to be in the SEC. But I'm
headed down to the Great State of Texas tomorrow for
the Alabama against Texas A and M game. There'll also
be a big game going on up in Dallas between
(00:55):
Texas and Oklahoma. As many of you get ready for
what should be a fun fall weekend, We've got a
lot to hit you with During the course of the program,
will continue to update you on the fight for who
should be the house speaker. As we predicted on this show,
I think two days ago, certainly yesterday, Donald Trump has
(01:16):
endorsed Representative Jim Jordan from Ohio. You have heard Jim
Jordan on this show for years now. He's a friend
to both Buck and myself. I think he would do
a fabulous job as Speaker of the House. I said
that I think he's the right choice because I think
he can bring together the MAGA element and the more
moderate elements of this Republican Party and help to fight
(01:40):
for the things that matter against the Biden administration.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And so we may even hear from Jim today. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
He's been obviously busy, as you can imagine, trying to
corral votes, but I was texting with him earlier his staff.
We may hear from him today. If we don't, I'm
confident we'll hear from.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Him next week.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
But we'll talk with Chip Roy about the latest in
the battle there in the primary. Ron DeSantis has finally
taken off the gloves and he is throwing haymaker punches
at Donald Trump right now.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Are they going to land? Will they matter?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
We will discuss that in a conjunction with what I
think is a really fascinating motion that was filed by
Trump in Washington, d c. That I think has some
legitimate basis in the law to potentially knock out the
criminal charges against him related to what he did while
(02:34):
he was president of the United States based on past precedent.
We will discuss that as well, but I want to
start with a story that I believe goes to the
heart of incentives and how when you make bad incentives,
you create bad outcomes. And you've heard Bucket me both
talk about the issue at the United States Southern border
(02:57):
and the reason why so many people are crossing the
southern and border ultimately boils down to two incentives that
exist that, so long as they exist, are going to
continue to drive people to leave their.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Countries and try to come here. One.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You can make twenty thirty forty times as much money
if you leave the country that you are in right
now and make it to the United States. There are
a lot of you listening to me right now that
like your jobs. If you could make twenty five percent
more money doing a similar job, many of you would say, yeah,
(03:36):
I'm leaving. An extra ten thousand dollars a year would
make a tremendous difference for you and your family. You
would go to a new job. The reason you would
go is the incentive of more money. Almost every single
person listening to me right now, if I told you
that you could make twenty times as much money as
you make now if you would go to Canada, almost
(04:01):
all of you would go. I think there are very
few of you that would say, you know what, I'm
so happy where I am right now in my job
that I will turn down twenty times as much money
to go to Canada and do a similar potential job.
So jobs is one incentive. The other, as we have
talked about, is birthright citizenship. If you lived in a
(04:24):
country without basic human rights and you wanted to have
a family, and you knew that if you had a
son or daughter in the United States, that son or
daughter would immediately become an American, you would be very
incentivized also to try to come to the United States.
Both of those incentives create the seven million plus illegals
(04:46):
that have then continued across our southern border, and certainly
failure to stop anyone from coming into the country. Removing barriers,
not building walls, all of that provides even more of
an incentive for people to come because the risk of
not getting in is comparatively low.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Okay, we know that goes on at the border.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I want to talk about this other story that I
have been discussing that I bet a lot of you
have not paid much attention to. There's a head football
coach was a head football coach at Michigan State University.
It's a guy by the name of mel Tucker, and
I think his story is emblematic of the incentive structure
(05:27):
that was created in the wake of the Brett Kavanaugh
hearings and the me too movement.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
And it is the hashtag Believe All Women.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I didn't really hear much about that hashtag until Brett
Kavanaugh was framed as he attempted to rise to become
a Supreme Court justice. All of the allegations, and I
say this as a lawyer who has done criminal law,
I dove into I analyzed. I know Buck felt the
same way. They were all complete and total crap, and
(05:59):
they wore a political hit job on Brett Cavanaugh. You
can say even that was a natural outgrowth of the
political hit job that was put in place that they
went after Clarence Thomas on. But it really went to
the next level because I don't remember during the Anita
Hill hearings, anybody trying to argue hashtag believe all women.
In fact, Joe Biden, who was then the chairman of
(06:22):
the Senate Judiciary Committee, to my best recollection, actually gave
a somewhat supportive as Democrats go version of that hearing
for Clarence Thomas. That was in a different time. Now,
Joe Biden, of course, would say that Clarence Thomas.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Was guilty the moment he was accused.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Despite the fact that Joe Biden himself is credibly accused
of sexual assault to a far greater degree than almost
anyone in the world of politics, and certainly anyone who's
sitting on the Supreme Court today. Yes, I'm talking about
Tara Reid. But what happened when you say believe all women?
The argument is, well, there's lots of women out there
(07:03):
who are sexually assaulted and they don't come forward. And
certainly I believe if you've been a victim of violent
crime you should always come forward. But when you say
believe all women, you are by default saying don't believe men,
and you are therefore telling larger segments of the American public,
many of whom are honest, but also many of whom
(07:23):
are dishonest, that if you tell a story, the media
is going to be predisposed to believe you and disbelieve
the other person solely based on your gender. And that's
I believe what's happened at Michigan State University yesterday. You
might have heard me mention this on this show, but
(07:43):
let me give you a rough synopsis of what happened.
Michigan State then head football coach Mel Tucker, who has
a massive nine and a half million dollar contract, got
a ninety five million dollar I believe it was ten
year contract to coach football at Michigan State Universe, one
of the elite Big ten football institutions and the country.
(08:04):
Football is a big deal there. If you're not a
football fan, understand that. So Mel Tucker hires a woman
named Brenda Tracy to come talk to his football team
about the importance of not committing sexual assault and not
putting yourself in positions where you could be accused of
(08:27):
committing sexual assault. Basically, he teaches his team wants to
teach his team how young men should conduct themselves to
make sure that they are avoiding of trouble with women
while they are members of the Michigan State football team.
This woman, Brenda Tracy, comes and speaks. I believe once
(08:49):
spring game at Michigan State, then they develop a relationship.
Mel Tucker, by his own descriptions, has is man married
but is basically staying with his wife until the kids
are old enough to graduate from high school.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
That's public, that's out there.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I don't like to dive into anybody's own marriage, but
it's known that he and his wife are basically partners
in raising their kids until they become graduate from high school,
and then they're going to go in their own own way.
My understanding is they sleep in different bedrooms, they have
limited interaction, but they want to raise their kids to
go to adulthood and then potentially they're going to go
(09:31):
in different directions. Again, I don't like to get into marriages,
but everybody wants to dive into this marriage because of
the situation that is ensued. Both he and Brenda Tracy
seem to be interested in each other. They had, according
to established record, twenty seven phone calls that lasted more
than thirty minutes, twenty seven of them. I don't know
(09:54):
how many of you out there have engaged in twenty
seven phone calls of over thirty minutes with anyone in
the country. I would submit that that's fairly rare. The
younger you are, the less likely it is. I actually
think I have not had twenty seven to thirty minute
plus phone calls with anyone in the last year. Certainly
(10:14):
not my wife, certainly not my mom, not even the
people who are closest to me. I communicate primarily by text,
uh and you know, short phone calls. They were interested
in each other. One particular phone call lasted thirty six minutes,
(10:35):
Brenda Tracy. Brenda Tracy came out and said, after that
thirty six well, let me tell you what happened on
the thirty six minute phone call. Both parties acknowledge that
phone sex occurred. Thirty six minute phone call. Phone sex
occurs After that phone call. At some point in time,
mel Tucker decided, you know what, this relationship has gone
(10:58):
too far.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
It's gotten personal.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm going to cut this relationship off, and he decided
not to have this woman come talk to his team again.
He canceled the speaking engagement. When that happened, Brenda Tracy
decided that the phone sex months after it happened had
(11:23):
actually been non consensual. This thirty six minute phone call
that happened. She said she froze and she couldn't hang up,
and she turned mel Tucker in to Michigan State University,
and Michigan State University fired him, and they said, we're
not going to pay you the eighty million dollars remaining
(11:45):
on your contract. Now, I said, you might have heard
me talk about it on the show because I thought
it was so emblematic. I said, this is this, This
story on its face doesn't make sense. You can't have
a thirty six minute phone call, claim that you frozen
couldn't hang up, and then retroactively months later say you
(12:07):
didn't consent to phone sex and demand that the head
football coach get fired. What really happened, I think is
she was I told you all this. I think she
wanted a serious relationship with him, he decided to cut
it off. She went fatal attraction, turned him in and
tried to make him pay.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Michigan State fired him.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
When we come back, the text messages came out yesterday.
There is now one hundred percent evidence that Brenda Tracy
made up this entire story because she wanted to get
paid her own text messages. Make this case, Mel Tucker
(12:53):
has still lost his job. We've also got the Trevor
Bauer situation. I think this is all directly connected to
Brett Kavanaugh and the incentives that we build when we
say believe all women men are liars. I'm going to
open up phone lines because I would like to hear
from people. Eight hundred two eight two two eight eight two.
I think this is a big story because it's your nephews.
(13:16):
They are being accused of sexual assault and they're having
kangaroo courts on college campuses everywhere. They get no opportunity
to defend themselves, and they are being roundly condemned, oftentimes
when they are, as is the case with mel Tucker
one hundred percent innocent. What happens when incentives are broken?
(13:41):
What can we learn from our failures? And why are
so few people willing to speak out and tell the truth.
This is a big story I want to dive into
here right off the top of the show today, Buck.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
We'll be back on Monday.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
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(14:38):
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Speaker 1 (14:43):
Clay Travis at buck Sexton Making Sense in an Insane World.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. I'm going
to read these text messages now for all of you.
A lot of you are gonna want a way in.
But during the commercial break, got good news. I want
to congratulate my wife Laura, who passed the bar exam.
So we're talking about legal related issues. We met in
(15:10):
two thousand and one at Vanderbilt Law School. She left
finished the first year, left had three kids, decided she
wanted to go back and finish the bar exam, and
so she finished law school this past May and now
has passed the Tennessee Bar. So I think, again, I
(15:31):
don't have any problem bragging on myself, but she doesn't
like when I brag on her. I think, I don't
think there's any moms out there. I know, certainly not
at the history of Vanderbilt Law School that have ever
started law school had three kids and then gone back
and finished the final two years of law school and
become a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So I would say, just in general.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Whatever Hope's dreams aspirations you have, whether your dad or
a mom, it's never too late to go back and
be able to get them done. She had to do
all sorts of work to even get in. Vanderbilt had
never had a student request to do this before, and
so I'm super proud of her. I didn't even want
to talk about it much on the air because I
(16:15):
didn't want her to be targeted because she happens to
be my wife. But now she's passed the bar. She's
good to go, and I am super proud of her.
So again, twenty was the math. I'm doing the math here.
Twenty two years after she first entered law school, she
is now a graduate of vanderbil Law School and a
(16:35):
licensed attorney in the state of Tennessee. And I'm going
to lose even more arguments in the Travis household than
I have been losing before because now she is a
bonafide JD. I said that I was going to read
these text messages. I am, but I want to give
them time to breathe, so I will read them when
I come back. We're talking about the importance of incentives
(16:56):
and how hashtag Believe All Women is now leaving one
hundred percent innocent men who have done nothing illegal, nothing improper. Again,
melt Tucker is not accused of any crime at all.
All he did was engage in one instance of phone sex.
He lost an eighty million dollar job because this woman
decided it was the best way for her to get
(17:17):
paid by claiming that it was non consensual, and almost
nobody in the media is even willing to talk about it,
which is another part of this story because they're afraid
they're going to end up the target. The truth matters,
Honesty matters. I'm going to read you these text messages.
Your jaw is going to drop, and you're going to
ask yourself, how isn't this the biggest story in America
right now? Why are so few people willing to actually
(17:40):
cover this story? And what in the world is Michigan
State doing? They should immediately reinstate Mel Tucker and they
should apologize to him. It's an embarrassment for a university
to be behaving in this manner. I'll lay it all
out for you when we come back, but in the meantime,
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Speaker 1 (18:48):
Lay Travis and buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton show A lot
of you want to weigh In.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Eight hundred two two eight A two.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
We're talking about mel Tucker being railroaded by Michigan State
University believing a woman who is I'm about to read
you the text messages I think quite clearly lying about
their relationship. I said on this show some time ago
because I find it so patently absurd. How do you
have non consensual phone sex? How is it possible that
(19:28):
you aren't able to hang up if someone is saying
something to you on the phone that you don't like.
From the moment this story started, I felt like I
was taking crazy pills because I look at all the evidence.
I look at the undisputed facts, and I analyze them.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I say, are you is this real? I'm not saying
mel Tucker's a saint.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Certainly it doesn't sound like he has a perfect marriage,
or an ideal marriage, or a marriage necessarily that you
would want to be involved in yourself. But it's a
huge percentage of you out there listening right now who
have been in difficult marriages, who may be divorced.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Again. He got fired.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
This is how far the expansive the idea of consent
has now moved to. There's no argument that he touched her,
that he behaved inappropriately, that there's any criminal allegation at all.
He got fired for what was claimed to be non
consensual phone sex, and I just said, I don't believe
that's possible, right, Like, does your phone not have a
(20:30):
hangout button? We know that that phone call in question
lasted thirty six minutes. I don't think I've been on
a thirty six minute phone call this year. So here
are the text messages that I want to read to you,
and this was put out in the hearing yesterday. She
tried them to lead all of her text messages. Brinda
(20:52):
Tracy did. Her assistant died in a car accident and
she tried to rush at the hospital. She was asking
whether she could get access to her assistants text messages,
and the family thought it was super weird and now
we know why she lobbied for She said, First of all,
(21:13):
she talked all about how much money Meltucker had. Talk
about how he got ninety five million dollar contract. That's
seven hundred thousand dollars a month. Can you imagine what
it would be like to have that kind of wealth.
She then texted, I'm filing a formal complaint with Michigan State.
My lawyer said after that, we can let him know
we want to come to an agreement that it doesn't
(21:34):
have to go to a hearing or anything unless he
wants it to.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
So she's looking for money literally.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
In her own text message to her assistant and assistant's
text message, she claimed she deleted all of her text message.
The only reason we have access to this is because
her assistant who died. They weren't cleansed off of her devices. Evidently,
she told her assistant her attorney was reaching out to
Michigan State regarding a settlement, and that money is my
(22:04):
only recourse to make him feel like there is a
punishment when they do the money. I should make him
pay me ten grand directly. She's been tweeting, sorry, texting
her assistant. Tucker signed his contract. I can't even.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Wrap my brain around ninety five.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Million, she's Can you imagine around seven hundred thousand going
into your bank account every month? Every month. We're gonna
make it happen. I'm gonna ask him to finance the
doc she was evidently making a movie.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
He'll do it.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
One week before she filed her complaint against Tucker, demanding money,
she admitted she was down to the final five dollars
in her checking account. After having filed the complaint, she
texted again. These are her text messages. Imagine the victim
is taking on a ninety five million dollar coach. She
(23:00):
often referred to herself and the third person as the
victim as well as a good victim in many of
her text messages. In connection, I'm reading from the Meltucker letter.
In connection with realizing that quote, she was supposed to
be paying down twenty eighteen taxes. She was owed money
(23:21):
to the irs not caught up in other years. She
said to her assistant, quote having the irs after me
in a way that it's known publicly, surely won't help
my lawsuit. She admitted in writing that she engages in
quote professional crying when I share my story. She claims
(23:44):
to be a victim of sexual assault. That is her business.
She goes and talks about her life as the sexual
assault victim. She then said that she was in dire
straits financially and said that her priority is a facelift
and filming myself so we can make this money. These
(24:05):
are again from a letter that mel Tucker put forward
to Michigan State. I'm reading some more details from the
text messages. She also again according to according to this
statement as detailed in a witnesses sworn statement, while this
(24:28):
woman's friend lay dying in a hospital, this is her assistant,
and even after her death, missus Tracy sought to sleep
over at this woman's house and repeatedly asked family for
access to her assistant's phone and computers. According to a
sworn statement, it really struck me odd that she would
(24:50):
want her things and would be asking for them as
her assistant lay dying in her hospital bed. After the
doctor told us that that the woman was not her
assistant was not going to make it. Brenda Tracy stated,
according to this affidavit, I need to call my therapist
because I don't feel supported right now. Can you imagine
(25:15):
being in the hospital with someone dying. Your assistant is
dying and you say in front of her family, I
need to call my therapist because I don't feel supported
right now. You know who probably doesn't feel very supported,
the dead lady. This chick is crazy, and yet her
(25:37):
story was accepted as one hundred percent truth. She said
that she never engaged in personal relationships with anybody that
she worked with, because mel Tucker's defense is we were
engaged in a personal relationship. They've uncovered that she was
sleeping with at least one other married head coach in
(26:02):
college that she was working with. I'm not gonna name
him because I'm sure he's having a rough day right now.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
But this is wild.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
She also, in text messages reached claims she claims she
was a victim because her name came out. Professional victim
claims she's a professional victim. Her own text messages show
that she was regularly texting reporters at USA Today and ESPN,
(26:38):
tipping them off and asking them to write favorable stories
about her being a victim of non consensual phone sex.
I mean, I can't believe this story is real. Again,
these are her own text messages. I am reading from
the filing of mel Tucker's attorneys. Mel Tucker, the fire
(27:00):
coach at Michigan State.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
What is going on here? How is this not a
story that is everywhere?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Sometimes I feel fortunate to run out kick and to
have this platform, to be able to talk to all
of you every single day, because very often, and I'm
sure a lot of you feel like this too. I
feel like I'm taking crazy pills because I see stories
and I'm like, how is this not the number one
story in America? Mel Tucker got railroaded by what appears
(27:36):
to be a lying woman who was seeking his money.
By her own words, from her own text messages, how
does this happen? It's the incentive structure we have created.
And some of you might be saying, well, I don't
care about Michigan State, I don't care about mel Tucker.
(27:57):
Do you care about Brett Kavanaugh. Do you care about
Trevor Bauer? Do you care about who knows Russell Brand?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Maybe? Now, I want to be clear, sexual assault is real.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Just because some women are lying doesn't mean all women
are lying.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
But women should be furious about this.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
And sexual assault survivors should be the most angry, because
when a woman lies for money, as has happened this
week with Trevor Bauer, former star pitcher of the Cincinnati
Reds and the Dodgers, and Mel Tucker just this week alone,
two different sexual assault accusers have been proven to be
(28:43):
one hundred percent liars. If you believe that sexual assault
is a serious problem, and I do, you should be
furious at these women because they actually make it harder
for true victims to come forward. And So, if you
don't care about Trevor Bauer, and you don't care about
Mel Tucker, and you don't care about Kavanaugh, do you
(29:05):
care about your sons? Do you care about your fathers,
your grandfathers, your uncles, your cousins, your nephews. When you
say believe all women by default, you say all men lie.
And when you say that, you create an incentive for
(29:29):
dishonest women to have cash registers going off in their
head as it's clear Brenda Tracy did. And what's crazy
here is no one's even talking about this. A lot
of you are listening to me in Michigan right now.
(29:51):
We got a monster new affiliate in the Detroit area,
a lot of Michigan State fans up there. Is this
the number one story in Michigan? I bet it's not.
How could it not be objectively? How could this not
be the number one story by itself in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I think it should be the number one story to America.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I think you should go on Foxnews dot com right now.
It should be the top of the page. I think
you should go on CNN dot com. I think it
should be at the top of the page. I think
you should be the top of the page of New York Times.
I think it should be the top of the page
of Washington Post. Mel Tucker is getting fired by a
woman who is lying about their relationship and was doing
all of this to try to get him fired solely
(30:36):
for money. Why is this not the number one story
in America? Because there's a lot of cowards out there,
This is my answer. I think there's a lot of
people who when the narrative doesn't fit what they want
the narrative to be. They want the man to be
the powerful, rich man. They want him to be the villain.
White man, black man, Asian man, hispananman, doesn't matter. They
(30:58):
want the man to be the villain here and the
woman to be the victim. That's the narrative arc, and
they're afraid to one upset the narrative arc.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Two. There's a lot of men in media.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
They're afraid that they'll be a target if they speak
out on this story and point out how dishonest it is.
I sometimes again feel like I take crazy pills because
I look around and I think to myself, how is
nobody else covering this? And the answer is because the
truth doesn't matter very much.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
In media today.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
It's a sad reality. And if you ever find yourself
in a media story, you'll understand this. I was driving
in the car with my kids yesterday. I picked them
up at school, my two oldest. They're old enough now
to understand it, fifteen and thirteen. Every now and then
they'll say, Dad, I saw you on YouTube, or they
watch YouTube. They don't watch television other than sports with me,
(31:55):
and they'll say, Dad, I saw you on television or
I saw you they said I saw you on YouTube,
And I always have the same conversation with him. I say,
you know what, guys, that's fun. That's all great that
people might have opinions of me. It can be positive
or negative. Don't pay attention to what anybody says about
your dad outside of the house.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Like do you think they know me as well as you?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Guys, do judge people based on what you know, not
based on what others say about them who know them
a lot worse than you do. It's a good lesson
for all of life. But my goodness, open phone lines
will take some of your calls.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Here. Chip Roy going to join its top of the
next hour.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
By the way, I bet he has a take on
this too, because he is pretty plugged in on stories
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(32:50):
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Speaker 1 (33:22):
Download and used then you Clay and Bucks. Listen to
the program live. Catch up on any part of the
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Speaker 3 (33:29):
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Speaker 1 (33:32):
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and make it part of your day.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton show. A lot
of you want to weigh in, but Danielle reached out.
She's a listener of the show. Danielle, let you describe
you are a rape survivor. You have helped to bring
awareness to these issues. Tell us where you work, what
you do and your reaction to this story.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Yes, sir, thank you for having me on the program.
I really appreciate that. I actually am a rape survivor,
activist and advocate and have been for the last fifteen years.
I stepped forward as a named victim of Richard Gilmour,
who was the Jogger rapist, and since then, that was
two thousand and eight, and since then I pretty much
(34:19):
have dedicated my life to working on issues surrounded around
sexual assault. So in various states, I've changed over a
dozen different laws and have worked on the rape kit backlog,
have worked nationally with the Joyful Heart Foundation and with
RAIN so got quite a resume, and I currently in
(34:43):
Oklahoma belonged to the Governor's Sexual Assault Kit Task Force
and am still changing laws between Oregon and Oklahoma on
different related issues, you know, surrounding sexual assault and the
sex offender Registry and and things like that that actually
affect me directly.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Well, thank you for all the work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And certainly the rape kit backlog that exists all over
this country is indefensible and should be rectified. So I
appreciate all the work you're doing there and the bravery
for speaking. Now do you know Brenda Tracy, what do
you think of this story based on the text messages
and all of the details that have come out.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
You know, I do know Brenda Tracy. I actually worked
with her in Oregon and we both actually served on
the Governor's Sexual Assault Kit Task Force in Oregon as well,
and we both worked on that legislation. So I don't
have a close relationship with Brenda, but I definitely have
(35:45):
been following the story very closely just because I do
know Brenda. I guess my first question, you know, when
it first broke about what was happening, the text mesthod
I think was to me was the red flag with
the deleted text messages on both sides. The first thing
(36:08):
that came to my mind is that we really do
need to know what was in those text messages to
be able to prove one side or the other. And
I think with the release of those I think we're
getting a little bit more of a clear picture as
to the relationship and possible other relationships with others as well.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And in general, your position would be women who lie
are the enemy of true victims, right, women, regardless, this
is the worst thing that you could do. You want
everybody to speak forward, but people have to be.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Honest, right, And this case I think is by far
still not over and done.
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