July 4, 2025 • 32 mins
The best of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Hour 1.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thank you for listening. This is the best of with
Klay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
We are joined now by David Swig, investigative journalist and author.
He's got a brand new book. I think you guys
are going to love it. I've already started to check
it out. We've got it at the home. Buck is
holding it up right now. An Abundance of caution, American schools,
the virus, and a story of bad decisions. David, thanks
for joining us in our New York City studio. I
(00:26):
know we've had you on before, and I think it's
fair to say that a lot of your reporting was
not necessarily well received by people on the left, and
that you are not some far right wing conspiracist conspiracy theorist.
You just did something wild. You looked at the data
and you were willing to write about what the data showed,
(00:49):
and you were as Buck and I have both been
profoundly angered and still angry over the failures of American
public policy as it pertains to COVID. What pushed you
to write this book and what do you hope that
people take from it?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
That's it's a very good assessment. Yeah, in the beginning,
very early on. It seemed reasonable to me. I wasn't
knowledgeable about what was happening. I live right outside New
York City. Okay, the schools are closed, everything shut down.
But very quickly after that, I watched my kids just
wilting away in the kind of the gray light of
(01:26):
their chromebooks, sitting alone in their bedrooms, and I was like,
this isn't going to work for a long period of
time like this, this how can this be? And and
from there I just started kind of researching and digging in.
I was in the middle of writing a book and
a totally different topic at the time, but this was
just so crazy what was happening. I wanted to learn
(01:48):
more about what was going on, and very quickly I
started to speak with experts in Europe and elsewhere, because
you couldn't speak to them in the United States. And
it was very obvious that there was no reason for
the schools to remain closed. And that kind of set
me off on this path. And as you noted, this
very much was you know, what was termed a contrarian
(02:12):
view against the establishment, and it was certainly a challenging
position for me writing for mainstream publications. To get my
reporting in there, but I pulled it off, and I
think people kind of perceived me. I think it's true
as basically the only guy who's really able to do
(02:33):
that to write a number of pieces. They were all
backed by evidence showing why the establishment view was so wrong.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
David, you said something I want to return to if
I can. You said that there was no reason for
the schools to be closed. There was no medical reason
for the schools to be closed. But I am sure
in the course of your research you found a whole
slew of non medical reasons or rationales or horse trading
(03:04):
that led to the continuation of public school closures. While
you know, I grew up in New York City, so
I know that system pretty well. Went to you know,
went to Catholic school there. There's private schools, parochial schools,
public schools. Parochial and private were open for business in
that in that fall after the initial pandemic, and yet
public schools were remote. Why. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I mean, one of the things that's so remarkable, and
it's it's almost astonishing that this actually happened in real time,
and it's kind of one of the mean reasons of
why I wrote this book was to make sure that
what happened isn't just memory hold and the idea. As
you noted, kids were in school, in private schools, They
(03:47):
were in school in red districts and and in you know,
red states, while at the same time a kid could
be down the block in public school and he was
kept home while his best friend you know, in a
different area or went to private school, was in school
every day. So the irony to me is that on
the left, which traditionally perceives itself as being that the
(04:09):
heroes of the underprivileged in our society, they championed the
rules and the guidelines and the policies that actually harmed
underprivileged kids the most. And it's like one of the
most tragic ironies of the pandemic to me that this
was the result that you had people vigorously. It wasn't
(04:30):
just advocating, but as you know, anyone who disagreed was
immediately vilified. You were some right wing crank. You are
a piece of garbage if you disagreed with them.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Well, I mean I am a right wing crank, so
I can imagine what would be like for you being
a turncoat.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, I was ben a dic Darnald here I was.
I was, you know, immediately cast aside. I was called
a murderer. You know, how could you do this? One
of the things that's so important that that that and
this is kind of like the original sin that I
talk about in the book. At the end of April,
in the beginning of May, in twenty twenty, schools began
to open in Europe. And it's not just like some
(05:07):
little school in Tibet somewhere with twelve kids. We're talking
about millions of kids. We're back in school. And the
European Union, the education ministers met in May and at
that meeting they said, we have observed no negative consequences
of opening our schools. They met a second time in June,
(05:28):
they had the same determination. No one reported this. I
ultimately reported it myself in June. But this is kind
of an astonishing thing. This wasn't, you know, a random blog.
This wasn't an obscure medical journal. This is the European
Union and their official announcement regarding opening schools where millions
(05:50):
of kids were in There was there was no negative consequence,
And as far as I am aware, no one in
the US media reported on this. Meeting that sort of
set things on the course, you know, where we were
just kind of never to come back from that.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, So I want that's an important point. I want
you to expound upon something that happened that a lot
of people have forgotten in June of twenty twenty. And
I may get the official name wrong, but it was
like the American Association of Pediatricians or something like that
said schools needed to open back up and we could
do it safely. That was a big story in June.
(06:28):
And then Randy Winegarden and the American Federation of Teachers
somehow kind of got into their universe and they ended
up you probably, I'm sure it's in the book.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
It is.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
They ended up reversing their guidance. What do you think
now when you see Randy Winegarden going around on show saying, oh,
I never said that I wanted schools to be shut down.
What does the evidence show us? And how important was
it from a science perspective for those pediatricians? And I
remember their argument being, David correct me if I'm wrong
that while the virus wasn't going to go away, kids
(07:03):
had far more to gain by being in school than
they did to fear from the virus. That was June
of twenty twenty, and then they completely reversed themselves under
political pressure.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
So what happened was the American Academy of Pediatrics put
out a guidance that was unambiguous. It said, we've got
to get kids in school. Don't even worry about six
feet of distancing. If you can do it, great, but
if you can't, don't worry. Just three feet is fine, whatever,
just get the kids in the building. Shortly thereafter, Donald
Trump tweeted we must open schools in the fall, all
(07:34):
caps with a bunch of exclamation points. Within days, the
American Academy of Pediatrics put out a new statement. Gone
was any mention of don't worry about distancing. Gone was
the idea of get kids in school no matter what.
And instead they mentioned money. It's really important for a
lot of money to flow to schools. And then the
second important thing about that revised statement was who authored it.
(07:57):
And it wasn't just the American Academy of pediac It
was co authored with the two largest teachers unions in
the country. It was so stark what happened that even
NPR reported on this. But I got to tell you,
this is part of a larger thing. And I talk
about this a lot in the book, where I show
this behind the scenes thing that was going on. So
as I started writing these articles challenging the sort of
(08:19):
dogma and the establishment view, people started reaching out to
me from around the country, parents, regular people, but also
a lot of doctors. And these are doctors, not just
some suburban pediatrician, but people who are at elite institutions,
are top university hospitals in the country. And they were saying, Hey,
thank you so much for writing this. I just want
you to know. I think it's terrible what's happening with kids.
(08:42):
I think these policies for keeping schools closed and these
mask mandates, there isn't good evidence behind this. Schools are
open in Europe, all these things. And they said, but
all of this has to be off the record because
they were afraid to be cast out by their peers,
or in many instances they were explicitly told and I
have examples of this in the book. They were explicitly
told by their superiors, by the administrators at their hospitals,
(09:05):
do not say anything about this. So I had this
bizarre experience where I'm observing this narrative that's going on
in the culture, this sort of manufactured consensus that wasn't real.
And I had this very lonely, strange experience where I'm
getting all these text messages and emails and I'm talking
with all these doctors who are disagreeing with this, but
(09:26):
the dissent was silent. I wasn't allowed to talk about it,
and they were too afraid or weren't allowed to speak
about it themselves. So my book gives what I hope
is this deep, behind the scenes account of what actually
happened during the pandemic, not the narrative that we were
all fed. And I'm hoping that when people finish reading
this that they're going to be armed with enough information
(09:49):
so they can actually understand and see how the gears
turn within the legacy media and how they turned where
they were working in conjunction with different institutions of power.
So it's not just for a pandemic, but for when
any other crisis happens that your listeners and they're like, oh,
I read about that in Swike's book. I see exactly
what's happening.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Now you're listening to the best of Clay Travis, and
Buck Sexton.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
We're speaking to David's wag. The book is an abundance
of caution. I have my copy in my hands here.
American Schools, the virus, and a story of bad decisions.
One of the reason we want to have you on, David
is we'd like to reward people who were right when
it mattered and did good work when it mattered on
this issue. So congrats on the book, and we hope
people will we'll pick up a copy because I think
it's very important. Right, it's a lot easier for people
(10:36):
to jump on the bandwagon now, but we know that
you were early on this and you got heat to
that end. Just one. I mean, Clay might have a
question for you in closing. I don't know if you're
a sports fan, you're like the SEC or anything, but
that's always a possibility here at the end too. But
if you were to walk around right now, you know,
sort of tell us what it's like on the other
side of it, because they'll still talk to you. They
(10:57):
won't talk to us that much. Some of them listened
to the show because it is so entertaining, But generally speaking,
we have a center to write audience, if you walked
around Park Slope or you walked around I don't know,
you know, Santa Monica, and just talk to people who
watch I don't know CNN read the New York Times
at the LA Times and said, hey, guys, the next
(11:18):
time around, we're we're all clear that we don't shut
down the schools for this, right? Are they clear on that?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I think there's been a softening, So I think that's
the good news. The bad news is is that there
is this revisionist history. There's this narrative that they've been pushing,
which is in the beginning, it was we have to
close schools, we have to do all this stuff. Eventually,
when it was so obvious that that wasn't beneficial, it
was so obvious this was only causing harm, then they shifted.
Then the narrative was, well, this is regrettable, but it
(11:48):
was an understandable thing. This was a fog of war decision.
It was chaos. We did the best we could. And
what I show in the book over and over is
that information was known in real time, and that example
about the European Union is just one of many. They
knew what was happening. It was ignored or it was dismissed.
So when you asked me that question, my fear is
(12:10):
that when the next crisis happens and it doesn't have
to be a pandemic, that once again that there's this
excuse of we're building the plane as we fly it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
We don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Sorry, we're doing the best we can. Don't accept it.
It's not true. Demand evidence, And that's what my book
is about at its core, is you can't say stuff
without providing evidence and over and over, and I cite
these long examples in the New York Times and all
these other media outlets. They kept quoting all these experts
saying things, but they didn't provide any evidence. They never
(12:40):
challenged them. Journalists shirked their core duty, which was to
actually question the statements by those in power. So I'm
hoping my book will act as a counter as a corrective,
as this is an actual, real history of what happened,
and it works as its own guidebook to help arm
people to understand how the gears turn behind the scenes,
so we can try to prevent something like this from
(13:01):
happening again.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Last question, you came from the left and bucks right.
I'm just curious from your perspective, we hope that the
historic record twenty forty years, sixty years from now is
going to be a worthy lesson. How much less faith
do you personally have in the so called legacy media
than you did before COVID happened. So David Zuig twenty
(13:25):
nineteen compared to David Zwig twenty twenty five, how are
you different?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I would say, if I may not just the legacy media,
but the entire left establishment, if you will, my experience
during the pandemic and what I observed and what I
experienced as a journalist actually chasing down the evidence and
the facts has completely shattered my entire worldview that I had.
(13:51):
I was a smug liberal. I've always been an independent
I was not like a staunch democrat, So I was
an independent minded person, but I tended to believe in
these institutions, and what I observed and experienced was the
absolute failure and these people who were the good guys.
I've recount some stuff in the book about I had
evidence from Arizona, the state itself, which differed from a
(14:13):
study that the CDC put out, and when I contacted
the CDC, I said, Hey, I have evidence that I
have data that's differing from what you have in your study,
and I knew what they had was wrong because I
had the official data, and their response to me was,
we look through it, there are no errors. When you
can't come back from something like that, and like I
(14:33):
remember just like kind of hunched over with like a
migraine that night talking to my wife. So to answer
your question, I just feel entirely differently about how the
world works, and you just can't recover from something like
that when you know, you would think something like the
NSA or Defense Department might pull some type of BS
(14:54):
on that this was a health department, and the CDC
they were lying through their teeth right to me in
email saying there were no errors when I knew they
knew that I knew, and I knew that they knew
that I knew that this was complete BS and they
didn't care. You can't recover from something like that. So
my book is filled with kind of that type of
(15:15):
stuff where I this was this was almost like a
cathartic endeavor where I had to set the record straight
so people and hopefully not just your audience, though I
know they're going to be receptive I think, but I'm
hoping that I can persuade some independent minded people as well.
That's my real goal. It is like to help people
see what's really going on.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
David's wag everybody in abundance of caution. David, thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You're enjoying the Best of program with Clay Travis and
Buck Sexton.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
We're gonna take a few moments to chat with our
friend Dana Perino of Frock Fox News. You all know her.
She's got a book that just came out this week.
I wish someone had told me the best advice for
building a great career and a meaningful life. And perhaps
we'll even get her to weigh in on flutes versus
fifes and other fascinating conversations today on the show. Dana,
(16:05):
thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Hey, I thought you were having me on to talk
about the NFL draft.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Oh no, that's my data, that's my area of expertise.
Maybe you and I can do a whole segment where
we discussed the draft. Because Clay had to tell me
that this was even happening, so I had zero idea,
but nowally I love the idea.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Dana read sports is one of my favorite parts of
Fox News. I love the idea of Dana and Buck
try to figure out sports related issues, like you guys
just with no help, just come together and try to
determine some sports related conclusion.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
I got you a weekend. I really loved the I
love watching the NFL Draft because I liked it watching
all the people, like in the families and like their excitement.
I think that's so fun and why tweeting the draft
is some one of my favorite things to do. So
I'm gonna make sure I'm doing that tonight. Like who
wouldn't want to? Like? Who wouldn't want to live in Arizona?
That sounds fun. I got cute uniforms too.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yes, I'll just tell you I've actually never seen the draft,
so I think we've established that Dana's knowledge Clay of
this exeed mind substantially. I've never watched an NFL draft
in my life, so maybe tonight will be my first time.
Dana tell us about about the book a little bit here.
I mean, you have a You've had a huge career.
You were White House Press secretary under Bush. Now you're
at the five Fox doing all this amazing stuff. What's
(17:26):
the book? Telling everybody out there.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
So it's called I Wish someone had told me the
best advice for building a great career and a meaningful life.
And I've done a book before called everything Will Be Okay.
And actually, I remember you all had just started your
show together, and when that book came out, you had
me on and it was such a fun conversation. I
remember exactly where I was standing and where we did that.
(17:49):
And that book was really targeted to young women going
through their quarter life crisis. This book is post COVID
and it is not geared just to young women. I
made it much more broad based and all also because
I have advanced in years since when I left the
White House, a lot of people that I mentored back
then are still coming to me for advice, and they've
become executives, moms and dads. They are looking for the
(18:13):
next step in their life. They're making big career transitions.
And so I realized I didn't have all the answers myself.
I interviewed over forty people, many the people here at
Fox News and like Guttfeld, Harold Ford, Junior, Jesse Waters,
Sandra Smith, Jimmy Fayala, you name it. They're in here,
but also like my college roommate, my husband, and Dirk
(18:38):
s Bentley, That's where I was thinking of. Of course,
I think of Nashville, and I mean Clay Travis, Nashville,
Dirk Spentley to talk to them everything from how to start,
how to get your foot in the door, how to
get a promotion, how to be intentional with your time
and a work life balance. And I know Buck your
new dad, and sure all of this is I'm sure
(18:58):
you'll be able to write a book of advice for
dads anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Oh would I would love that. But I have to
tell you, Dana, as I'm talking to you. It's always
reassuring when I find out that my wife is actually
listening to the show, and she texted me and says,
make sure you tell Dana that I got a lot
out of her book Everything will Be Okay. So Carrie
Sexton is a fan of book one and now will
be a fan of your most recent book.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
I am sure your your wife is so lovely. Well
you know I love hearing that. And one thing I
did find out, guys, is when Everything will be Okay
came out. It was a big success. Everybody loved it.
But they were younger guys. Especially around here at Fox,
We're like, what about one for us? And there's an
insatiable need of people, young people who they really want
to be successful, and they're just looking for us to
(19:44):
give them the blueprint, and we don't have the answers.
Of course, one of the best things that I've learned
and that I could pass on is that I really
worried away my twenties for no reason. I was so
trying to plan out my life, and everything that happened
great in my life is not because I planned it.
And if you aren't educated American, you already won life's
(20:05):
great lottery. And so all you have to decide is
how hard do you want to work?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I think that's so well said, and thanks for coming on, Dana.
I had a professor at Vanderbilt Law School, Larry Soderquist,
who has since passed, but he was an incredible business
professor and his big thing to us when we were
in law school. And I'm sure there's some kids out
there that are going to grad school or you're going
to take the bar exam soon coming up this summer,
(20:32):
and he said, you are already set. He said, you
guys have done the hard work of getting into law school.
He said. The question you have to decide going forward
with your legal careers is how do you want to
work this law degree? He said, But you're never going
to be homeless, you're never going to be hungry. The
big concerns in life you have taken care of, and
(20:55):
you should think about that more than you do all
of you. I thought that perspective was super important, and
I think it reflects upon what you said, where there
are a lot of kids out there in their twenties.
They get out of school, they get out of grad school,
they have these quarter like crises I had won myself,
and they wonder what else is out there? And I
think this is an important lesson that you're trying to
(21:17):
teach them, is that one you're still going to be
trying to figure out a lot of things when you're
in your thirties, forties, fifties, and sixties. Nobody has all
the answers, but you're probably going to be okay.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Oh absolutely. And one of my favorite mentors was President Bush,
and I remember he would talk about the importance of
not being so risk averse, that America was built on
people willing to take a risk and to be pioneers.
And I think about Elon Musk right, like he takes
risks all the time, like landing rockets on chopsticks. But
(21:51):
because he was able to, he was willing to take
a risk, you can get great reward. And I remember
I was really hesitant to start my own business after
I left the White House because I had a million
reasons that were stupid really looking back. And the President
said to me, ask yourself this, what is the worst
thing that could happen to you if it fails? So
I saw hemden had for a minute and he said,
(22:12):
so you're telling me the worst thing that could happen
to you? An educated American woman who was the White
House Press secretary start throwing this, Say it fails, and
the worst thing you have to do is go back
and work for another PR firm. That's the worst thing.
And he said, I'm not persuaded by that. And that's
really helpful to me. I learned from doctor Samantha Boordman.
When people are dealing with anxiety, and of course of
(22:33):
course we all do, and also we're surrounded by young
people who have a lot of it, you ask yourself,
what's the worst thing that could happen, and what's the
best thing that could happen. And usually what happens is
somewhere in the middle, and it can calm you down
pretty quickly.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Yes, I think there's an old quote from one of
the great Stoics that we suffer more in imagination than reality.
It might have been Seneca, or it's one of them.
So it's a version. You know, Dane is updating it
for the twenty first century. But this is very true.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Jeffie Waters when I interviewed him for this book. Jesse
Waters talks about the Stoics as well in this book.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, Jesse Waters and I are apparently brothers from another mother.
I had no idea fun fact. Jesse doesn't even know this,
but maybe he was in I think it was like
an English one oh one class at Trinity College with
my older brother at one point, to give your sense
to what a small world it was. Then Mason transferred
went to a different school. But yes, Jesse and I
have give the Yeah, Jesse and I have, and ship's passing.
(23:29):
Then Mason assures me he might have popped his collar,
but he was a very nice guy. But yes, we've
got Dana Perino with us right now, and she's got
a new book out which you guys should all check out,
and her books have been huge successes up to this point.
So what's uh, You know, if you're if you're looking
now for the the people out there who are going
(23:49):
to be grabbing this book, if there's one thing that
you want them to really take out of it today,
or rather one thing that they would read and you
hope they could apply to their lives as soon as possible, Dan,
And what would that be?
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Well, I think we've covered a lot of it, and
especially what I'm hoping is that when people read this,
they will realize they don't need to worry as much.
One of the reasons that you seek out a book
like this is because you're trying to get some answers
the things that are bothering you. So I'm hoping that
that is true. But I would also pass on this advice.
Most of the mentees that come to see me, they
are definitely interested in professional guidance, but they also are
(24:22):
looking for meaningful personal lives. They would love to meet somebody,
they want to get married, they want to have families,
and they want to find a work life balance. That
will allow them to have a great, wonderful, meaningful life.
And my experience was unusual. I met my husband on
an airplane twenty eight years ago. There's a million reasons
why we might not have met, or that we could
(24:44):
have talked ourselves out of it, But choosing to be
loved is not a career limiting decision. It actually made
all the difference for me. And I'm hoping that young
people can take that away and realize that investing in
yourself in a commitment is a great way to enhance
your life and your career.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
I got a wait, I got a reverse for a second. Here,
take us into this. This is a this is a
great story of romance. You met your husband on a plane, Like,
what was the first move?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Here?
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Did he spill his his peanuts or his Seltzer and
your lap?
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Like?
Speaker 4 (25:16):
How did he get this going?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Well?
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Okay, so it was nineteen ninety seven, So let's go
on the way way back machine. Nobody had phones, nobody
had air pods. Okay. So I was carrying a book,
I was working for a congressman. I was coming back
from washing from Denver, going Denver, Chicago, Chicago, DC. And
I was on an American Airlines flight. I almost missed
the plane because it was my first time driving out
to the New Denver International Airport, which might as well
(25:40):
be in Kansas.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
It's so far away it's accurate.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
And so the last two people to get on the
plane were myself and this guy. And I sat down
in the window seat and he said, would you like
me to put your bag up above? British accent?
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Strong moves, A strong move, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
The accents. Accents are helpful, no wedding ring handsome. And
he had a book called The Tailor of Panama by
John McCarey. I said, oh, I said, do you like
that book? So we started talking about books and for
two and a half hours. We talked for a long time.
I remember asking him what do people in Europe think
about Bill Clinton? And he said they think he's a clown.
(26:18):
And I was like, oh, wow, we're going to get
along great. But then I remember looking at the window
and saying a prayer to God that I know I
asked you to help me find someone. But he's much
older than me. He lives in England. I had my
career is on the right track. I didn't think I
would meet somebody on an airplane. But I couldn't eat, sleep, drink,
(26:41):
concentrate anything after I met him, and about six weeks
later we had our first date when he was back
in the States in New Orleans. And six months later
I moved to England twenty eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Wow, what was the reaction when you told people, I'm
just kind of curious. Hey, I'm going to move to England.
I met a guy on an airplane.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Okay, so you hit the nail on the head of
one of the reasons I wrote the book because one
of the things I worried about in my twenties was
how am I going to get a job, How will
I succeed? How will I pay my bills? Then? How
am I going to meet somebody? How am I going
to meet? Then? What are people going to think about
me for wanting to be with this man who is
much older than me, lives in England, and that I'm
leaving my job and career to go live in England,
(27:25):
and who knows what's going to happen to me? Yeah,
And I worried myself to death. And this a woman
of a family friend that don't give up on this
chance to be loved and the data.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
One superpower that I've learned is to not care what
people think who don't matter to you.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
But you know what it's so interesting is that we
have to learn this lesson over and over again, because
your parents teach you that when you're young, or maybe
you learn it in Sunday school or from a teacher
or from other friends. And all of these young people
are always thinking about what others are thinking about them
and how they're being judged. And what I remind them
is that actually we all just think about ourselves all
(28:04):
the time. Somebody has time to think about you.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And by the way, especially in a social media age,
people are even more obsessed about how they're being perceived
than they would have been in the past.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Quickly, wait, can I ask her a question, Dana, do
you think that? Do you think that women? I'm putting
you on the hot seat a little bit here? Everybody
loves data, Pirno, everyone's gonna love this book. You're on
the hot seat. Now. Do women in this era care
too much about men's height?
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Gosh, you know, I am barely I'm not even quite
five foot one, so even Gtzald is a little tall
to me. So just kidding. He is not tall to me?
Do women care too much about height? I mean maybe,
I mean I know that it's sort of awkward. It
depends like, don't you don't see a lot of how tall.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Is your husband? Dana? How tall is your husband?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Let's just let's just go through this about I would
say five to ten, okay, like.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
He's like tall but not you know, you didn't date
like you're not a five to one lady who married
a six foot five guy. We've had some conversations on
the show recently about this.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
He's tall for someone from Scotland.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
How about that fair enough?
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I don't even know if that's just a shot at
Scottish men. By the way, that you just I wouldn't
have been tall for someone from Scottish men are short?
Is this true? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
The book, by the way, is fabulous. I have met
her husband. He is fabulous. Dana has taken us out.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
Show.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
He is great, he is fantastic. Well, hey, by the way,
you're listening to a guy who may get canceled at
any moment. No idea what might happen from one second
to the next week. I wish someone one had told
go ahead and Dana Perino, go buy it. You're gonna
like it. Dana. We appreciate the time you do. Fantastic work. Tilba,
we said.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
High thank you. Same to you, Clay. I was struck
by something as we're talking to Dana. Who who? It
is true? Everybody My wife loves Dana. Everybody loves Dana.
Her book is fantastic. I'm sure the last book was fantastic.
I have a book title for you for your next book,
because we know the topic. I have a title for you.
(30:13):
Do you want me to tell you the title now
or when we come back. I want to hear your
title when we come back. We've got a title for
the book and it's probably not going to surprise you,
but I'm curious if your title is somewhat similar to
the title.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
We got an idea.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Now that you're telling me this, I feel like it
could be. But you have Just to be clear, Clay
has not told me the title of his forthcoming book.
I have a title in mind for him, and I
think some of you are really going to like it.
So that's what we call it. Ease in the business. Uh,
if you switch, is it me or you who's supposed
to know? It's me. It's me.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Oh, I blew it.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Sorry, the leaf flowers are throwing you off, buddy, I
need something.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
The leaf blowers just track me everywhere. I hate those guys.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You are listening to the best of Clay Travis and
Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. A little
bit of a quick turn here. By the way, I
want to say, Dana Perino maybe the nicest person on
air at Fox News, but if she had to get
into a royal rumble with the other nicest person in
my experience, Shannon Breem versus Dana Perino for the title
of nicest person on the air at Fox News would
(31:16):
be like the Jordan Lebron debate of the Fox News era.
But they are the two nicest people on the planet,
I would.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I would concur they're two of the nicest people I've
come across in this in this business and just in general.
But Clay, your book is going to be about masculinity
in America today. I think your book title should be
the First Amendment. And dudes, that's good.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You are going to be It's the book title is
going to be buck Balls b A L LS how
Trump one menu, and all it has on the cover
is just two big basketballs. One hundred percent. This is
this is what, this is what. Yes, you're all very welcome.
That is Buck's title is very good, but the title
(32:03):
of my book is legitimately just balls B A L
L s and uh yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Thank you for listening. This is the best of with
Klay Travis and Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
We are joined now by David Swig, investigative journalist and author.
He's got a brand new book. I think you guys
are going to love it. I've already started to check
it out. We've got it at the home. Buck is
holding it up right now. An Abundance of caution, American schools,
the virus, and a story of bad decisions. David, thanks
for joining us in our New York City studio. I
(00:26):
know we've had you on before, and I think it's
fair to say that a lot of your reporting was
not necessarily well received by people on the left, and
that you are not some far right wing conspiracist conspiracy theorist.
You just did something wild. You looked at the data
and you were willing to write about what the data showed,
(00:49):
and you were as Buck and I have both been
profoundly angered and still angry over the failures of American
public policy as it pertains to COVID. What pushed you
to write this book and what do you hope that
people take from it?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
That's it's a very good assessment. Yeah, in the beginning,
very early on. It seemed reasonable to me. I wasn't
knowledgeable about what was happening. I live right outside New
York City. Okay, the schools are closed, everything shut down.
But very quickly after that, I watched my kids just
wilting away in the kind of the gray light of
(01:26):
their chromebooks, sitting alone in their bedrooms, and I was like,
this isn't going to work for a long period of
time like this, this how can this be? And and
from there I just started kind of researching and digging in.
I was in the middle of writing a book and
a totally different topic at the time, but this was
just so crazy what was happening. I wanted to learn
(01:48):
more about what was going on, and very quickly I
started to speak with experts in Europe and elsewhere, because
you couldn't speak to them in the United States. And
it was very obvious that there was no reason for
the schools to remain closed. And that kind of set
me off on this path. And as you noted, this
very much was you know, what was termed a contrarian
(02:12):
view against the establishment, and it was certainly a challenging
position for me writing for mainstream publications. To get my
reporting in there, but I pulled it off, and I
think people kind of perceived me. I think it's true
as basically the only guy who's really able to do
(02:33):
that to write a number of pieces. They were all
backed by evidence showing why the establishment view was so wrong.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
David, you said something I want to return to if
I can. You said that there was no reason for
the schools to be closed. There was no medical reason
for the schools to be closed. But I am sure
in the course of your research you found a whole
slew of non medical reasons or rationales or horse trading
(03:04):
that led to the continuation of public school closures. While
you know, I grew up in New York City, so
I know that system pretty well. Went to you know,
went to Catholic school there. There's private schools, parochial schools,
public schools. Parochial and private were open for business in
that in that fall after the initial pandemic, and yet
public schools were remote. Why. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I mean, one of the things that's so remarkable, and
it's it's almost astonishing that this actually happened in real time,
and it's kind of one of the mean reasons of
why I wrote this book was to make sure that
what happened isn't just memory hold and the idea. As
you noted, kids were in school, in private schools, They
(03:47):
were in school in red districts and and in you know,
red states, while at the same time a kid could
be down the block in public school and he was
kept home while his best friend you know, in a
different area or went to private school, was in school
every day. So the irony to me is that on
the left, which traditionally perceives itself as being that the
(04:09):
heroes of the underprivileged in our society, they championed the
rules and the guidelines and the policies that actually harmed
underprivileged kids the most. And it's like one of the
most tragic ironies of the pandemic to me that this
was the result that you had people vigorously. It wasn't
(04:30):
just advocating, but as you know, anyone who disagreed was
immediately vilified. You were some right wing crank. You are
a piece of garbage if you disagreed with them.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Well, I mean I am a right wing crank, so
I can imagine what would be like for you being
a turncoat.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, I was ben a dic Darnald here I was.
I was, you know, immediately cast aside. I was called
a murderer. You know, how could you do this? One
of the things that's so important that that that and
this is kind of like the original sin that I
talk about in the book. At the end of April,
in the beginning of May, in twenty twenty, schools began
to open in Europe. And it's not just like some
(05:07):
little school in Tibet somewhere with twelve kids. We're talking
about millions of kids. We're back in school. And the
European Union, the education ministers met in May and at
that meeting they said, we have observed no negative consequences
of opening our schools. They met a second time in June,
(05:28):
they had the same determination. No one reported this. I
ultimately reported it myself in June. But this is kind
of an astonishing thing. This wasn't, you know, a random blog.
This wasn't an obscure medical journal. This is the European
Union and their official announcement regarding opening schools where millions
(05:50):
of kids were in There was there was no negative consequence,
And as far as I am aware, no one in
the US media reported on this. Meeting that sort of
set things on the course, you know, where we were
just kind of never to come back from that.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, So I want that's an important point. I want
you to expound upon something that happened that a lot
of people have forgotten in June of twenty twenty. And
I may get the official name wrong, but it was
like the American Association of Pediatricians or something like that
said schools needed to open back up and we could
do it safely. That was a big story in June.
(06:28):
And then Randy Winegarden and the American Federation of Teachers
somehow kind of got into their universe and they ended
up you probably, I'm sure it's in the book.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
It is.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
They ended up reversing their guidance. What do you think
now when you see Randy Winegarden going around on show saying, oh,
I never said that I wanted schools to be shut down.
What does the evidence show us? And how important was
it from a science perspective for those pediatricians? And I
remember their argument being, David correct me if I'm wrong
that while the virus wasn't going to go away, kids
(07:03):
had far more to gain by being in school than
they did to fear from the virus. That was June
of twenty twenty, and then they completely reversed themselves under
political pressure.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
So what happened was the American Academy of Pediatrics put
out a guidance that was unambiguous. It said, we've got
to get kids in school. Don't even worry about six
feet of distancing. If you can do it, great, but
if you can't, don't worry. Just three feet is fine, whatever,
just get the kids in the building. Shortly thereafter, Donald
Trump tweeted we must open schools in the fall, all
(07:34):
caps with a bunch of exclamation points. Within days, the
American Academy of Pediatrics put out a new statement. Gone
was any mention of don't worry about distancing. Gone was
the idea of get kids in school no matter what.
And instead they mentioned money. It's really important for a
lot of money to flow to schools. And then the
second important thing about that revised statement was who authored it.
(07:57):
And it wasn't just the American Academy of pediac It
was co authored with the two largest teachers unions in
the country. It was so stark what happened that even
NPR reported on this. But I got to tell you,
this is part of a larger thing. And I talk
about this a lot in the book, where I show
this behind the scenes thing that was going on. So
as I started writing these articles challenging the sort of
(08:19):
dogma and the establishment view, people started reaching out to
me from around the country, parents, regular people, but also
a lot of doctors. And these are doctors, not just
some suburban pediatrician, but people who are at elite institutions,
are top university hospitals in the country. And they were saying, Hey,
thank you so much for writing this. I just want
you to know. I think it's terrible what's happening with kids.
(08:42):
I think these policies for keeping schools closed and these
mask mandates, there isn't good evidence behind this. Schools are
open in Europe, all these things. And they said, but
all of this has to be off the record because
they were afraid to be cast out by their peers,
or in many instances they were explicitly told and I
have examples of this in the book. They were explicitly
told by their superiors, by the administrators at their hospitals,
(09:05):
do not say anything about this. So I had this
bizarre experience where I'm observing this narrative that's going on
in the culture, this sort of manufactured consensus that wasn't real.
And I had this very lonely, strange experience where I'm
getting all these text messages and emails and I'm talking
with all these doctors who are disagreeing with this, but
(09:26):
the dissent was silent. I wasn't allowed to talk about it,
and they were too afraid or weren't allowed to speak
about it themselves. So my book gives what I hope
is this deep, behind the scenes account of what actually
happened during the pandemic, not the narrative that we were
all fed. And I'm hoping that when people finish reading
this that they're going to be armed with enough information
(09:49):
so they can actually understand and see how the gears
turn within the legacy media and how they turned where
they were working in conjunction with different institutions of power.
So it's not just for a pandemic, but for when
any other crisis happens that your listeners and they're like, oh,
I read about that in Swike's book. I see exactly
what's happening.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Now you're listening to the best of Clay Travis, and
Buck Sexton.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
We're speaking to David's wag. The book is an abundance
of caution. I have my copy in my hands here.
American Schools, the virus, and a story of bad decisions.
One of the reason we want to have you on, David
is we'd like to reward people who were right when
it mattered and did good work when it mattered on
this issue. So congrats on the book, and we hope
people will we'll pick up a copy because I think
it's very important. Right, it's a lot easier for people
(10:36):
to jump on the bandwagon now, but we know that
you were early on this and you got heat to
that end. Just one. I mean, Clay might have a
question for you in closing. I don't know if you're
a sports fan, you're like the SEC or anything, but
that's always a possibility here at the end too. But
if you were to walk around right now, you know,
sort of tell us what it's like on the other
side of it, because they'll still talk to you. They
(10:57):
won't talk to us that much. Some of them listened
to the show because it is so entertaining, But generally speaking,
we have a center to write audience, if you walked
around Park Slope or you walked around I don't know,
you know, Santa Monica, and just talk to people who
watch I don't know CNN read the New York Times
at the LA Times and said, hey, guys, the next
(11:18):
time around, we're we're all clear that we don't shut
down the schools for this, right? Are they clear on that?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I think there's been a softening, So I think that's
the good news. The bad news is is that there
is this revisionist history. There's this narrative that they've been pushing,
which is in the beginning, it was we have to
close schools, we have to do all this stuff. Eventually,
when it was so obvious that that wasn't beneficial, it
was so obvious this was only causing harm, then they shifted.
Then the narrative was, well, this is regrettable, but it
(11:48):
was an understandable thing. This was a fog of war decision.
It was chaos. We did the best we could. And
what I show in the book over and over is
that information was known in real time, and that example
about the European Union is just one of many. They
knew what was happening. It was ignored or it was dismissed.
So when you asked me that question, my fear is
(12:10):
that when the next crisis happens and it doesn't have
to be a pandemic, that once again that there's this
excuse of we're building the plane as we fly it.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
We don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Sorry, we're doing the best we can. Don't accept it.
It's not true. Demand evidence, And that's what my book
is about at its core, is you can't say stuff
without providing evidence and over and over, and I cite
these long examples in the New York Times and all
these other media outlets. They kept quoting all these experts
saying things, but they didn't provide any evidence. They never
(12:40):
challenged them. Journalists shirked their core duty, which was to
actually question the statements by those in power. So I'm
hoping my book will act as a counter as a corrective,
as this is an actual, real history of what happened,
and it works as its own guidebook to help arm
people to understand how the gears turn behind the scenes,
so we can try to prevent something like this from
(13:01):
happening again.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Last question, you came from the left and bucks right.
I'm just curious from your perspective, we hope that the
historic record twenty forty years, sixty years from now is
going to be a worthy lesson. How much less faith
do you personally have in the so called legacy media
than you did before COVID happened. So David Zuig twenty
(13:25):
nineteen compared to David Zwig twenty twenty five, how are
you different?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I would say, if I may not just the legacy media,
but the entire left establishment, if you will, my experience
during the pandemic and what I observed and what I
experienced as a journalist actually chasing down the evidence and
the facts has completely shattered my entire worldview that I had.
(13:51):
I was a smug liberal. I've always been an independent
I was not like a staunch democrat, So I was
an independent minded person, but I tended to believe in
these institutions, and what I observed and experienced was the
absolute failure and these people who were the good guys.
I've recount some stuff in the book about I had
evidence from Arizona, the state itself, which differed from a
(14:13):
study that the CDC put out, and when I contacted
the CDC, I said, Hey, I have evidence that I
have data that's differing from what you have in your study,
and I knew what they had was wrong because I
had the official data, and their response to me was,
we look through it, there are no errors. When you
can't come back from something like that, and like I
(14:33):
remember just like kind of hunched over with like a
migraine that night talking to my wife. So to answer
your question, I just feel entirely differently about how the
world works, and you just can't recover from something like
that when you know, you would think something like the
NSA or Defense Department might pull some type of BS
(14:54):
on that this was a health department, and the CDC
they were lying through their teeth right to me in
email saying there were no errors when I knew they
knew that I knew, and I knew that they knew
that I knew that this was complete BS and they
didn't care. You can't recover from something like that. So
my book is filled with kind of that type of
(15:15):
stuff where I this was this was almost like a
cathartic endeavor where I had to set the record straight
so people and hopefully not just your audience, though I
know they're going to be receptive I think, but I'm
hoping that I can persuade some independent minded people as well.
That's my real goal. It is like to help people
see what's really going on.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
David's wag everybody in abundance of caution. David, thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You're enjoying the Best of program with Clay Travis and
Buck Sexton.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
We're gonna take a few moments to chat with our
friend Dana Perino of Frock Fox News. You all know her.
She's got a book that just came out this week.
I wish someone had told me the best advice for
building a great career and a meaningful life. And perhaps
we'll even get her to weigh in on flutes versus
fifes and other fascinating conversations today on the show. Dana,
(16:05):
thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Hey, I thought you were having me on to talk
about the NFL draft.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Oh no, that's my data, that's my area of expertise.
Maybe you and I can do a whole segment where
we discussed the draft. Because Clay had to tell me
that this was even happening, so I had zero idea,
but nowally I love the idea.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Dana read sports is one of my favorite parts of
Fox News. I love the idea of Dana and Buck
try to figure out sports related issues, like you guys
just with no help, just come together and try to
determine some sports related conclusion.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
I got you a weekend. I really loved the I
love watching the NFL Draft because I liked it watching
all the people, like in the families and like their excitement.
I think that's so fun and why tweeting the draft
is some one of my favorite things to do. So
I'm gonna make sure I'm doing that tonight. Like who
wouldn't want to? Like? Who wouldn't want to live in Arizona?
That sounds fun. I got cute uniforms too.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yes, I'll just tell you I've actually never seen the draft,
so I think we've established that Dana's knowledge Clay of
this exeed mind substantially. I've never watched an NFL draft
in my life, so maybe tonight will be my first time.
Dana tell us about about the book a little bit here.
I mean, you have a You've had a huge career.
You were White House Press secretary under Bush. Now you're
at the five Fox doing all this amazing stuff. What's
(17:26):
the book? Telling everybody out there.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
So it's called I Wish someone had told me the
best advice for building a great career and a meaningful life.
And I've done a book before called everything Will Be Okay.
And actually, I remember you all had just started your
show together, and when that book came out, you had
me on and it was such a fun conversation. I
remember exactly where I was standing and where we did that.
(17:49):
And that book was really targeted to young women going
through their quarter life crisis. This book is post COVID
and it is not geared just to young women. I
made it much more broad based and all also because
I have advanced in years since when I left the
White House, a lot of people that I mentored back
then are still coming to me for advice, and they've
become executives, moms and dads. They are looking for the
(18:13):
next step in their life. They're making big career transitions.
And so I realized I didn't have all the answers myself.
I interviewed over forty people, many the people here at
Fox News and like Guttfeld, Harold Ford, Junior, Jesse Waters,
Sandra Smith, Jimmy Fayala, you name it. They're in here,
but also like my college roommate, my husband, and Dirk
(18:38):
s Bentley, That's where I was thinking of. Of course,
I think of Nashville, and I mean Clay Travis, Nashville,
Dirk Spentley to talk to them everything from how to start,
how to get your foot in the door, how to
get a promotion, how to be intentional with your time
and a work life balance. And I know Buck your
new dad, and sure all of this is I'm sure
(18:58):
you'll be able to write a book of advice for
dads anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Oh would I would love that. But I have to
tell you, Dana, as I'm talking to you. It's always
reassuring when I find out that my wife is actually
listening to the show, and she texted me and says,
make sure you tell Dana that I got a lot
out of her book Everything will Be Okay. So Carrie
Sexton is a fan of book one and now will
be a fan of your most recent book.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
I am sure your your wife is so lovely. Well
you know I love hearing that. And one thing I
did find out, guys, is when Everything will be Okay
came out. It was a big success. Everybody loved it.
But they were younger guys. Especially around here at Fox,
We're like, what about one for us? And there's an
insatiable need of people, young people who they really want
to be successful, and they're just looking for us to
(19:44):
give them the blueprint, and we don't have the answers.
Of course, one of the best things that I've learned
and that I could pass on is that I really
worried away my twenties for no reason. I was so
trying to plan out my life, and everything that happened
great in my life is not because I planned it.
And if you aren't educated American, you already won life's
(20:05):
great lottery. And so all you have to decide is
how hard do you want to work?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I think that's so well said, and thanks for coming on, Dana.
I had a professor at Vanderbilt Law School, Larry Soderquist,
who has since passed, but he was an incredible business
professor and his big thing to us when we were
in law school. And I'm sure there's some kids out
there that are going to grad school or you're going
to take the bar exam soon coming up this summer,
(20:32):
and he said, you are already set. He said, you
guys have done the hard work of getting into law school.
He said. The question you have to decide going forward
with your legal careers is how do you want to
work this law degree? He said, But you're never going
to be homeless, you're never going to be hungry. The
big concerns in life you have taken care of, and
(20:55):
you should think about that more than you do all
of you. I thought that perspective was super important, and
I think it reflects upon what you said, where there
are a lot of kids out there in their twenties.
They get out of school, they get out of grad school,
they have these quarter like crises I had won myself,
and they wonder what else is out there? And I
think this is an important lesson that you're trying to
(21:17):
teach them, is that one you're still going to be
trying to figure out a lot of things when you're
in your thirties, forties, fifties, and sixties. Nobody has all
the answers, but you're probably going to be okay.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Oh absolutely. And one of my favorite mentors was President Bush,
and I remember he would talk about the importance of
not being so risk averse, that America was built on
people willing to take a risk and to be pioneers.
And I think about Elon Musk right, like he takes
risks all the time, like landing rockets on chopsticks. But
(21:51):
because he was able to, he was willing to take
a risk, you can get great reward. And I remember
I was really hesitant to start my own business after
I left the White House because I had a million
reasons that were stupid really looking back. And the President
said to me, ask yourself this, what is the worst
thing that could happen to you if it fails? So
I saw hemden had for a minute and he said,
(22:12):
so you're telling me the worst thing that could happen
to you? An educated American woman who was the White
House Press secretary start throwing this, Say it fails, and
the worst thing you have to do is go back
and work for another PR firm. That's the worst thing.
And he said, I'm not persuaded by that. And that's
really helpful to me. I learned from doctor Samantha Boordman.
When people are dealing with anxiety, and of course of
(22:33):
course we all do, and also we're surrounded by young
people who have a lot of it, you ask yourself,
what's the worst thing that could happen, and what's the
best thing that could happen. And usually what happens is
somewhere in the middle, and it can calm you down
pretty quickly.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Yes, I think there's an old quote from one of
the great Stoics that we suffer more in imagination than reality.
It might have been Seneca, or it's one of them.
So it's a version. You know, Dane is updating it
for the twenty first century. But this is very true.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Jeffie Waters when I interviewed him for this book. Jesse
Waters talks about the Stoics as well in this book.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Well, Jesse Waters and I are apparently brothers from another mother.
I had no idea fun fact. Jesse doesn't even know this,
but maybe he was in I think it was like
an English one oh one class at Trinity College with
my older brother at one point, to give your sense
to what a small world it was. Then Mason transferred
went to a different school. But yes, Jesse and I
have give the Yeah, Jesse and I have, and ship's passing.
(23:29):
Then Mason assures me he might have popped his collar,
but he was a very nice guy. But yes, we've
got Dana Perino with us right now, and she's got
a new book out which you guys should all check out,
and her books have been huge successes up to this point.
So what's uh, You know, if you're if you're looking
now for the the people out there who are going
(23:49):
to be grabbing this book, if there's one thing that
you want them to really take out of it today,
or rather one thing that they would read and you
hope they could apply to their lives as soon as possible, Dan,
And what would that be?
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Well, I think we've covered a lot of it, and
especially what I'm hoping is that when people read this,
they will realize they don't need to worry as much.
One of the reasons that you seek out a book
like this is because you're trying to get some answers
the things that are bothering you. So I'm hoping that
that is true. But I would also pass on this advice.
Most of the mentees that come to see me, they
are definitely interested in professional guidance, but they also are
(24:22):
looking for meaningful personal lives. They would love to meet somebody,
they want to get married, they want to have families,
and they want to find a work life balance. That
will allow them to have a great, wonderful, meaningful life.
And my experience was unusual. I met my husband on
an airplane twenty eight years ago. There's a million reasons
why we might not have met, or that we could
(24:44):
have talked ourselves out of it, But choosing to be
loved is not a career limiting decision. It actually made
all the difference for me. And I'm hoping that young
people can take that away and realize that investing in
yourself in a commitment is a great way to enhance
your life and your career.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
I got a wait, I got a reverse for a second. Here,
take us into this. This is a this is a
great story of romance. You met your husband on a plane, Like,
what was the first move?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Here?
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Did he spill his his peanuts or his Seltzer and
your lap?
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Like?
Speaker 4 (25:16):
How did he get this going?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Well?
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Okay, so it was nineteen ninety seven, So let's go
on the way way back machine. Nobody had phones, nobody
had air pods. Okay. So I was carrying a book,
I was working for a congressman. I was coming back
from washing from Denver, going Denver, Chicago, Chicago, DC. And
I was on an American Airlines flight. I almost missed
the plane because it was my first time driving out
to the New Denver International Airport, which might as well
(25:40):
be in Kansas.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
It's so far away it's accurate.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
And so the last two people to get on the
plane were myself and this guy. And I sat down
in the window seat and he said, would you like
me to put your bag up above? British accent?
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Strong moves, A strong move, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
The accents. Accents are helpful, no wedding ring handsome. And
he had a book called The Tailor of Panama by
John McCarey. I said, oh, I said, do you like
that book? So we started talking about books and for
two and a half hours. We talked for a long time.
I remember asking him what do people in Europe think
about Bill Clinton? And he said they think he's a clown.
(26:18):
And I was like, oh, wow, we're going to get
along great. But then I remember looking at the window
and saying a prayer to God that I know I
asked you to help me find someone. But he's much
older than me. He lives in England. I had my
career is on the right track. I didn't think I
would meet somebody on an airplane. But I couldn't eat, sleep, drink,
(26:41):
concentrate anything after I met him, and about six weeks
later we had our first date when he was back
in the States in New Orleans. And six months later
I moved to England twenty eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Wow, what was the reaction when you told people, I'm
just kind of curious. Hey, I'm going to move to England.
I met a guy on an airplane.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
Okay, so you hit the nail on the head of
one of the reasons I wrote the book because one
of the things I worried about in my twenties was
how am I going to get a job, How will
I succeed? How will I pay my bills? Then? How
am I going to meet somebody? How am I going
to meet? Then? What are people going to think about
me for wanting to be with this man who is
much older than me, lives in England, and that I'm
leaving my job and career to go live in England,
(27:25):
and who knows what's going to happen to me? Yeah,
And I worried myself to death. And this a woman
of a family friend that don't give up on this
chance to be loved and the data.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
One superpower that I've learned is to not care what
people think who don't matter to you.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
But you know what it's so interesting is that we
have to learn this lesson over and over again, because
your parents teach you that when you're young, or maybe
you learn it in Sunday school or from a teacher
or from other friends. And all of these young people
are always thinking about what others are thinking about them
and how they're being judged. And what I remind them
is that actually we all just think about ourselves all
(28:04):
the time. Somebody has time to think about you.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And by the way, especially in a social media age,
people are even more obsessed about how they're being perceived
than they would have been in the past.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Quickly, wait, can I ask her a question, Dana, do
you think that? Do you think that women? I'm putting
you on the hot seat a little bit here? Everybody
loves data, Pirno, everyone's gonna love this book. You're on
the hot seat. Now. Do women in this era care
too much about men's height?
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Gosh, you know, I am barely I'm not even quite
five foot one, so even Gtzald is a little tall
to me. So just kidding. He is not tall to me?
Do women care too much about height? I mean maybe,
I mean I know that it's sort of awkward. It
depends like, don't you don't see a lot of how tall.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Is your husband? Dana? How tall is your husband?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Let's just let's just go through this about I would
say five to ten, okay, like.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
He's like tall but not you know, you didn't date
like you're not a five to one lady who married
a six foot five guy. We've had some conversations on
the show recently about this.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
He's tall for someone from Scotland.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
How about that fair enough?
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I don't even know if that's just a shot at
Scottish men. By the way, that you just I wouldn't
have been tall for someone from Scottish men are short?
Is this true? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
The book, by the way, is fabulous. I have met
her husband. He is fabulous. Dana has taken us out.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
Show.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
He is great, he is fantastic. Well, hey, by the way,
you're listening to a guy who may get canceled at
any moment. No idea what might happen from one second
to the next week. I wish someone one had told
go ahead and Dana Perino, go buy it. You're gonna
like it. Dana. We appreciate the time you do. Fantastic work. Tilba,
we said.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
High thank you. Same to you, Clay. I was struck
by something as we're talking to Dana. Who who? It
is true? Everybody My wife loves Dana. Everybody loves Dana.
Her book is fantastic. I'm sure the last book was fantastic.
I have a book title for you for your next book,
because we know the topic. I have a title for you.
(30:13):
Do you want me to tell you the title now
or when we come back. I want to hear your
title when we come back. We've got a title for
the book and it's probably not going to surprise you,
but I'm curious if your title is somewhat similar to
the title.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
We got an idea.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Now that you're telling me this, I feel like it
could be. But you have Just to be clear, Clay
has not told me the title of his forthcoming book.
I have a title in mind for him, and I
think some of you are really going to like it.
So that's what we call it. Ease in the business. Uh,
if you switch, is it me or you who's supposed
to know? It's me. It's me.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Oh, I blew it.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Sorry, the leaf flowers are throwing you off, buddy, I
need something.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
The leaf blowers just track me everywhere. I hate those guys.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You are listening to the best of Clay Travis and
Buck Sexton.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. A little
bit of a quick turn here. By the way, I
want to say, Dana Perino maybe the nicest person on
air at Fox News, but if she had to get
into a royal rumble with the other nicest person in
my experience, Shannon Breem versus Dana Perino for the title
of nicest person on the air at Fox News would
(31:16):
be like the Jordan Lebron debate of the Fox News era.
But they are the two nicest people on the planet,
I would.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I would concur they're two of the nicest people I've
come across in this in this business and just in general.
But Clay, your book is going to be about masculinity
in America today. I think your book title should be
the First Amendment. And dudes, that's good.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
You are going to be It's the book title is
going to be buck Balls b A L LS how
Trump one menu, and all it has on the cover
is just two big basketballs. One hundred percent. This is
this is what, this is what. Yes, you're all very welcome.
That is Buck's title is very good, but the title
(32:03):
of my book is legitimately just balls B A L
L s and uh yeah, it's gonna be fun.
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