July 17, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 2 of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show features a high-impact conversation with Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, offering deep insights into the latest conservative legislative victories and political developments. The hour opens with Blackburn discussing the Senate’s advancement of a major rescission package, which includes efforts to defund NPR and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting—an initiative dating back to the Reagan era. She highlights the elimination of wasteful federal spending, such as funding for vegan food in Zambia and electric buses in Rwanda, projecting a potential $90 billion in savings over a decade.
The conversation shifts to President Trump’s early-term accomplishments, with Blackburn praising his swift action on the economy, border security, and crime. She emphasizes his commitment to promises made, including securing the southern border, reducing inflation, and rebuilding the military. The hosts and Blackburn also discuss the “No Tax on Tips” bill and a proposed $6,000 annual Social Security tax deduction for seniors, framing these as key components of the GOP’s 2024 platform.
Judicial appointments take center stage as Blackburn details the contentious confirmation of Emil Bove to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. Despite Democratic opposition due to Bove’s past legal defense of Trump, Republicans pushed the nomination through committee. Blackburn criticizes Democrats for obstructing judicial and law enforcement appointments, urging the GOP to push confirmations forward without delay.
The hour also explores Tennessee’s economic success, with Blackburn crediting the state’s constitutional ban on income tax and fiscally conservative governance for attracting businesses and residents. She contrasts this with the rise of far-left politics in cities like New York, referencing the candidacy of Zohran Mamdani and warning of the dangers of socialist policies.
In the second half of the hour, Alan Dershowitz joins the show to discuss the Jeffrey Epstein case, recent developments in the DOJ, and media misinformation. Dershowitz defends Trump against claims of involvement in Epstein’s crimes, asserting there is no credible evidence linking Trump to any wrongdoing. He also debunks conspiracy theories about Epstein’s ties to Israeli intelligence, calling them baseless and antisemitic. Dershowitz advocates for full transparency in the Epstein files, including both accusations and exculpatory evidence, to ensure fairness in public judgment.
The hour concludes with commentary on the firing of Maureen Comey, daughter of former FBI Director James Comey, following her role in the failed prosecution of Sean “Diddy” Combs. Clay and Buck argue the case was overcharged and mishandled, suggesting political motivations and prosecutorial incompetence.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome in second hour of play and Buck kicks off now,
Senator Marsha Blackburn of the Great State of Tennessee joins us.
Senator Blackburn, always good to chat with you.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well, it is so good to chat with you. And
of course we've been a little bit busy here in DC.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, and some good things happening. I think so often
in the world of commentary and talk radio, we have
to not only point out the serial failings of the Democrats,
but try to prod the Republicans to move a little
faster or a little further on something. But in this case,
I think a little bit of a golf clap may
be necessary, a little bit of a high five. The
(00:39):
Senate has pushed forward this recision package. Tell us a
bit about what's contained and how does it feel to
be able to be a part of the Senate Senator
as they do something that Republicans have wanted to do
for pretty much my entire adult life.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, you're right about that, and I was looking at
something week Ronald Reagan started to push to try to
defund NPR and the Corporation for Public Broadcasts, And of
course we know that many times they have a very
biased view. They are anti conservative, and you can see
(01:19):
it when you go through and look at how they
covered the Democrat Convention and the Republican Convention. The Democrat
Convention was nearly all positive coverage and the Republican nearly
all negative. Taxpayers do not want their funds to be
used for the Corporation for public broadcasts, addressing that, addressing
(01:41):
some of this wasteful spending that has taken place through
USAID and the State Department. When you look at vegan
food for Zambia, our electric buses in Rwanda, our voter
ID programs in Haiti, then and the list goes on
and on. We could talk for hours of things that
(02:04):
we were able to uncover that these agencies were taking
their appropriated funds for and spending the months, and taxpayers
don't want their hard earned dollars going for that. So
nine billion out of this year's by budget, drawing a
red line through those discretionary spending items, which is what
(02:26):
recisions are for. And then if you say out of
a ten year budget window all of that is gone,
that's about ninety billion dollars in shavings.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
We're talking to Center Marshall Blackburn about all of the
successes that are taking place. Trump basically ran on economy,
border crime. It seems like he is delivering on all
three of those fronts, and I know sometimes they overlap. So,
for instance, the border and crime, we certainly know they're illegal,
violent perpetrators of crimes that should be moved from this country.
(03:01):
Can you remember, you've been in politics for a little
while now, can you remember a more consequential in terms
of delivering results on what someone ran on first six
months for a president than what we have seen so
far from Trump?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Because I can't.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I cannot the way he has has really buckled down.
And you know, Clay, we've talked about this a lot
in the last week, as we remembered a year ago
on Sunday that assassination attempt. He has been very intentional,
very purposeful. He made promises, he has kept those promises.
(03:39):
He's dealing with inflation, he is dealing with Paris, he's
dealing with our standing in the world. He has secured
that southern border. It is the lowest illegal entry into
this country we have ever seen. And we know that
he is making certain that things get done and we're
(04:00):
rebuilding the military, we are addressing waste, fraud, and abuse
in government programs. That is what people voted for. He
is delivering and it is a joy to work with him,
and when you see every single day how he is
sending power and authority and money back to the states,
(04:23):
getting it out of DC, draining the swamp, which he
said he would do, and sending power back to the people,
whether it's education or energy, or regulations or healthcare or benefits,
and saying, here, let's get it out of DC. Let's
get this money back where it belongs.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I think, I know I did. When you put out
I think it was a twenty point plan for President
Trump is basically the Republican platform for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It was super succinct, It was very understandable. If you
go back and look at that, I think it's very
worthwhile maybe to bring that back around to circulate so
people can see it. It is one of the most
remarkably Hey, I'm going to do this, and then he's
delivered on it, and I get sometimes while he's a
little bit frustrated, because I don't know that we've ever
(05:17):
seen anything like that. Lots of politicians say they're going
to do things and then they don't deliver. That's a
very transactional document. And he's delivered on virtually every point
on that document that you guys put out.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
You're right about that, and it was a joy to
chair that platform committee for him, and he was very
much engaged with that and is delivering. And as we
did the big beautiful bill, no tax on tips or overtime,
and the provision I have worked on for years, no
tax on Social Security, And of course we do that
(05:51):
by a six thousand dollars bonus deduction per senior per year.
So a couple marriage filing jointly that are sixty five
and over, that's twelve thousand dollars in bonus income tax
deductions for that couple, and that allows them to utilize
(06:11):
those funds basically tax free. But President Trump made these promises,
he said this is what we're going to do, and
he is delivering on every point, and the American people
are responding. You see, his polling numbers are better than
they have ever been. The Democrats, our friends on the left,
(06:35):
have gone so far off the cliff on the left
that many of my friends who are independents and Democrats
are going, oh my goodness, I can't go there with
them because of how radical they have become and some
of the socialist ideas that they have truly embraced and
(06:58):
are promoting.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Senator Blackburn, I know you're on the Judiciary Committee, and
a very interesting and certainly very qualified nominee just got
put through the Senate panel, right, Emil Bove, who had
defended President Trump in the past, a former federal prosecutor.
I was wondering if you could speak to the level
of opposition to somebody who seems to be so eminently
(07:23):
qualified for the US Court of Appeals for the third
Circuit from Democrats is well, why are they so opposed
to this one? And then also just give us a
sense as to how the judge confirmation machinery in the
Senate is working under Trump's term. So far, are you
getting through the nominees you want to? You need to?
(07:45):
How's that all going?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Well?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
We are working on some more today and earlier this
week we did the first circuit point Court appointee, and
that is Whitney Hermann Dauffer out of Tennessee. She'll be
on the sixth Circuit. And you're referencing Emil Bovi and
Emo had represented President Trump at one point and had
(08:11):
worked with Todd blanche and we got him out of committee. Today.
The Democrats were so upset about this, they did not
want to approve him because they felt like he had
done this, that or the other wrong. But but what
they're going to do is nitpick. They're going to try
to find something and something's wrong with everybody and everything
(08:33):
that's related to President Donald Trump because they have Trump
Derangement syndrome. It is alive, it is out there, they
are living it. And what we did, as the Democrats
got up and walked out after the vote had started,
(08:53):
we continued the vote and he was approved and he has.
Now he will move to the floor for his confirmation vote,
and I hope we vote him very swiftly. Now, the
Democrats are trying to hold up every US Attorney, every
US marshal, every judicial appointment that we have because they
(09:16):
want to impair the ability of President Trump's administration to
carry out their agenda. So we are encouraging Senator Grassley
to find to force the issue of moving forward with
these nominees. Don't hold them over. Let's just as we
(09:40):
do the hearings. Let's move them to the floor. So
we can get them up for the vote vote, because
the Democrats are calling cloture on every single nominee, which
for your circuit judges is thirty hours on the clock
and for the others and for your US attorney it's
(10:00):
two hours. So if they're not going to work with us,
we should be working all night, every night, and every
weekend until we get people confirmed.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
We're talking to Marsha Blackburn. I want to finish, Senator
from Tennessee. I want to finish with this and I'm
going to be hammering at home because I think there's
a lot of New Yorkers listening right now, and I
know there's a lot of Californians. Senator Blackburn is the
primary reason why there is no state income tax in
the state of Tennessee. And for people out there who
are looking at Kami, Mom, Damie that's coming into New
(10:30):
York City, We've got a pretty good economic environment in
the state of Tennessee, wouldn't you suggest.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I think we have a great economic environment. And you know, Clay,
we talk a lot about how the leaving that fight
against the state income tax in Tennessee and killing that
thing that required our state to go through a reset
and look at the programs where we were spending money
and to actually reduce what we were spending because we
(11:00):
didn't have the funds. And we have a balanced budget
amendment for our states. And I think that the reason
you see Tennessee regularly as the number one are two
or three or four state for business and relocations and
business growth and GDP growth, it is because we are
(11:24):
a well managed state and we have made certain that
we will never have a state income tax. We actually
now have it as a part of our state constitution.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Amen, we'll talk to you again soon, Center Blackburn, appreciate
the work and we'll talk and we look forward to
chatting again soon, maybe about a big announcement.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
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(12:07):
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(12:28):
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Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh hey, welcome back into Clay and Buck. We've got
Alan Derschwitz joining us a couple of minutes. We want
to bring up to speed on some of the stories
we're going to be diving into with Professor Dershowitz himself,
so he'll you with this. He had that article on
the Wall Street Journal laid out some of a clear
insider perspective on the on the Epstein case, and so
(13:50):
we'll ask him about some of that. And we've also
got interesting news from yesterday that just we'll we'll bring
to Professor Dershowitz is at which is that Pam Bondi
ag Bondi of the DOJ has fired Maureen Comy. That
name is familiar to all of you because Maureen Comy
(14:13):
is the daughter of James Comy, also known as Sanktacomy
to those of you who have been rolling along with
us for a long time. The most sanctumonious and smarmy
federal prosecutor and former FBI chief of perhaps all time
and marine Comy has been fired from the US Attorney's
(14:33):
office in Manhattan. She had previously worked on the prosecutions
of Gielen, Maxwell Jeffrey Epstein and most recently, and what
I think is was a clear failure of the prosecution
to do a good job the Sean Diddy Combe's case,
the Shawn Combs sex trafficking case in New York, where
(14:55):
they went with a rico charge, which Clay and I knew,
I'm not even a lawyer, and I was like, that's
a bad idea, and lawyer Clay agreed. So when the
two of us see it that way, guess what we were, right, Clay,
Maureen Comy getting fired by Bondie. I don't know if
we have more on this other than can't the ag five?
(15:16):
Are you you're serving at the pleasure of the president
when you at some level, right, you're appointed by the
president to be the US Attorney for so I assume
you're at the pleasure of the president. Therefore the age
on behalf of the president can just fire you because
they want to fire you, right? Is that? Is that not?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
How?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think that is an accurate read on it. I
would also point out that she just failed on the
Diddy prosecution.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well yeah, so I just.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, I mean, but I mean, I think if you
are just want to say, hey, this is a Entitan.
It's not based on who your dad is. It's not
based on his relationship with Trump. It's just you aren't
getting the job done. What is the conviction rate for
federal prosecutions, basically.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Ninety eight or it's some. It's if they bring the charge,
you're probably doing a plea deal. Because if you're going
you're going to prison for a very long time.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
That is a tremendous uh swing and a miss by
federal prosecutors. So I actually think you could justify leave
aside whatever her last name is. I actually think that
case was such a mess and they so aggressively overcharged it.
As we said on this program, we were not surprised
by the not guilty verdict, but also they passed over
(16:30):
very routine convictions. They could have gotten them on gun charges,
they could have gotten them on drug charges, things that
were not complicated and didn't need to get into trafficking
or consent or coercion and all this complicated things. For
a jury, all they had to do was say, hey,
he had didn't he have guns with serial numbers filed off.
I mean this is easy case stuff. I mean drugs
(16:53):
put in your possession, These are routine cases now they don't.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
In fact, they're co located illegal drugs and fire arms.
That alone is that now you're talking federal, that's a
charge on its own. If you've got like a kilo
of cocaine in the safe next to next to your
AR fifteen, big problem, big problem.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So it's not as if they had a massive challenge.
All they had to do was just basic blocking and tackling,
and they would have gotten convictions on those cases. So
the fact that they screwed all of that up, to
me is I think an indictment of her that would
justify moving on. Now, does she not get the benefit
of the doubt because her last name is Comy. Probably
we'll talk about this a little bit with Dershowitz. Yeah,
(17:34):
I think it's fair to say we'll talk about that
a little bit with Dershowitz when we come back again.
He had the big interesting Wall Street Journal editorial, and
he was the defense attorney for Jeffrey Epstein during all
of these investigations that began back in two thousand and
five ish, So we will talk with him and get
the absolute latest there. But maybe you're dragging a little bit.
(17:57):
Maybe you don't have the energy that you. Maybe you
just want to be able to put up a little
bit more weight at the gym.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Have you thought about chalk?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Have you thought about adding a little bit of extra
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Speaker 1 (18:18):
You don't want to be in that camp. You don't
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Clay and Buck. We'll be with the hopefully pressor Gerschwick
(18:55):
here in a second.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It's busy man. We'll be calling him in the meantime,
But we had President Trump just now, I don't let's
not play the audio. Apparently the audio is so low
quality that for all of you listening all across this
country of ours, you'd be tough to make it out
to tell you. He was asked about by a reporter,
would you consider appointing a special council to investigate the
(19:20):
Epstein investigation that just happened? And President Trump responded, I
have nothing to do with it. So I think it
is very, very unlikely that that will happen. I've heard
some people saying that that's what they would like to happen.
Here some commentators out there, Clay. As far as I
can see it, there would have to be some reason
(19:44):
for a special council, and the reason is generally that
there's a conflict of interest. And so now now you're
you would be appointing a special counsel because you'd be saying,
I can't be trusted my administration, can't be trust the
DOJ to handle this internally, and to me that you're
(20:04):
just creating more problems. I don't see why that would
be helpful at all, and I think Trump is there's
almost no chance. In my mind, he's going to go
through with something like that.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well, I think you can just go to the precedent
of the first Trump administration. I think a lot of
people would say they got knocked off their feet by
his frustration with his first Attorney General Sessions. I think
I'm remembering that correctly, right, the former Alabama senator who
was Trump's first attorney general not being willing to just say, hey,
(20:36):
there's nothing to this Russia collusion allegation. Instead you had
the step back, Hey, I've got a conflict. I can't
look at this. Here's the other challenge that I would say,
so I tweet about this a little bit. To me,
the solution is pretty simple. You need to have a
g Pambondi and Cash Pttel have a joint press conference,
(20:56):
answer every question that you possibly can on it. And
by the way, we're waiting on Alan Dershowitz. But I thought,
and so then you kind of draw the line there.
I think the challenge is how many people out there
are going to say, hey, I now trust the decision
(21:19):
that was rendered by the Independent Counsel if it endorses
the decisions made before by Pam Bondi and Cash Ptel
and by the way, I do think the political aspect
of this. Okay, We've got Alan Dershowitz with us now,
and Professor Dershowitz, we appreciate you joining us. We read
some of your editorial yesterday in the Wall Street Journal,
(21:42):
and I just want to start with this question, because
probably the number one question that this audience has before
we dive into a few others.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You wrote about it in the editorial.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Evon Musk said Trump is in the Epstein files, this
larger Epstein universe of investigation. You say that is not
true based on what you know as the defense attorney
for Jeffrey Epstein for many years. What is Trump's role
or involvement in any way in this larger context?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
There's no evidence that Trump is accused of having done
anything improper wrong sexual Donald Trump knew Jeffrey Epstein in
Palm Beach. They hung out together, he said some nice
things about him in an article for Vanity Fair, and
then they got into a fight either over a real
(22:33):
estate matter or about an impropriety of Epstein in relation
to the du order of one of the guests at
marl Lago, and their relationship terminated. Of course, he's in
the files. Half the people in Palm Beacher in the files.
I'm in the files. Of course, I flew on his airplane.
I was his lawyer. All of his lawyers flew on
the airplane, but we never I never flew with anybody
(22:56):
who was young or underage or anything like that. So
there's a big confusion about the file. The file contains,
you know, so many people, thousands and thousands and thousands
of innocent people, and then there's the accusation. So there
are two issues as to the accusation. There is no
client list. Let's be very clear. Jeffrey Epstein never compiled
(23:20):
the list of people to whom he allegedly trafficked any
young woman. It just doesn't exist. It never existed, and
I've never said it existed, and nobody I know has
ever said it existed. Nobody has ever seen it. What
there is is this. The FBI interviewed some of the
alleged victims, and the alleged victims named some people, and
(23:43):
those names have been redacted. I know who those people are.
There's nobody in the current government. There's no Donald Trump,
there's no Bill Clinton, there's nobody. Give you an example,
A woman named Sarah Ransom wrote a series of emails
to The New York Post to Marine Callahan of The
New York Post. In it, she accused Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton,
(24:07):
and Richard Branson of having underage sex with minors and
said she had videos of them. This was in the
run up to the election of twenty sixteen. Wow wow, wow,
big news. So they did an investigation and this woman,
Sarah Ransom, admitted to The New Yorker that she made
up the whole story. Come to whole cloth. She didn't
(24:27):
know anybody. She just made up the story because she
wanted to have something on Jeffrey Epstein. So that's the
kind of thing you get, these kinds of fake accusations,
And of course the courts don't reveal the fake accusations
because they want to protect the so called victims. Now,
Sarah Ransom was not a victim. She's a perpetrator. She
(24:48):
falsely accused people and admitted. But she is being protected
and the people that she accused are not being protected.
So that's what is going on on here, and that's
why some of the courts have been so concerned about
revealing half truth accusations without going and looking at who
(25:10):
the accusers are.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Professor Dershowitz on the issue of the allegations conspiracy, however
one wants to frame it of foreign intelligence contacts specifically,
the allegation has been leveled by some pretty big voices
out there. You mentioned I think in your editorial that
(25:32):
this has happened, that they're saying it's Israel, that there's
Masad connection here, and you address that. Could you lay
out your case here as a former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein,
why you say the foreign intel thing just doesn't hold water?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Well, First of it, was also a former lawyer for
the Mosade. I represented the Masad back in the day
when five of their agents were arrested in Cyprus, and
the Mosade retained me pro bono to represent these five people,
and I got them out. I have good sources in
Israeli intelligence and I can tell you with one hundred
(26:10):
percent assurance there's never been any contact between Israeli intelligence
or Israel in general and Jeffrey Epstein, he became friendly
after all this happened with it had Brock, the former
prime minister. They did business dealings together, but there's never
been any contact with intelligence and the former Prime Minister
(26:32):
of Israel Bennett looked into it again and stated on
behalf of Israel basically that there's no truth to it
at all. And this is logical. It would be impossible.
What if he had worked for any intelligence agency? Mosads
ed the agency. Who's the first person who would have
told his lawyers, me and the other lawyers when we
(26:53):
were trying to get a good deal for him. The
best thing we could have had going for us is,
oh my god, the guy worked for an intelligence agency.
Even alone. He never told us that, And quite the opposite,
he denied any information that would be helpful to him
along those lines. So it's a completely made up story.
Now I know the reason for the made up story.
Made up story had the following basis. His former girlfriend,
(27:16):
Gallainne Maxwell, is now in prisons. Father, Robert Maxwell, who's
a publisher in England, may well have had some connections
to the Mosad, And so Tucker Carlson probably said, oh
my god, his girlfriend, his father had connections. He probably
did too. But then Tucker Carlson goes further and says,
everybody in Washington knows. Everybody in Washington knows that he
(27:40):
works for the Masade. That's just blatant bigotry, and it's
just wrong and it's just not credible, and he ought
to take that back. Nobody in Washington knows that. The
CIA doesn't know it, The White House doesn't know it.
I don't know anybody credible who believes that Jeffrey Epstein
would have been hired by the Mosad or by the CIA.
(28:03):
It's absurd.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
A lot of people point to the initial prosecution. You
were the defense attorney for Jeffrey Epstein, that was called
a quote sweetheart deal. You say Epstein was actually upset
with the deal that he got. How does that deal
compare to you to other criminal defendants. Was it a
sweetheart deal that he got initially?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
No, in fact, it was a worse deal. What we
did is we did a complete analysis of every single
case that was comparable. And remember, the only thing he
was charged with, the only thing he was charged with
was having sexual contact, not sexual intercourse, sexual contact massages
with two women, one way above the age of consent
(28:46):
and the other but for money, so it was a.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Crime, and the other.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
I think three or four months below the aging consent,
seventeen and a half years old. That's we did a
thorough analysis. I did that analysis personally of every case
in Broward County, in Palm Beach County and Miami and
Dade County, of people who were charged with that kind
of thing, not a single one of them got any
prison time. So we went to the the people in
(29:15):
charge and we said, you know, fair is fair. Let's
give him a sentence that corresponds to prepass sentences. Ultimately,
we worked at it where he sentenced to eighteen months
in jail and he'd have to register as a sex offender.
Epstein was furious at that. He fired me, wouldn't pay
my legal fee. Thought I was a terrible lawyer because
(29:38):
I got him such a bad deal. You know, I
thought it was a pretty good deal. And as a
result of that deal. By the way, that's how the
FEDS got involved, because the police officials in Palm Beach
County thought they could do better. So they went to
the well.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
They thought Professor drshwuids they thought there was a lot
of others. I mean, there were a lot of other
allegations of more serious stuff that were out there that
certainly came to light later.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
He was that's right, but he was not charged with
any of that right, So he pleaded guilty. The only
things he's ever pleaded guilty to or these two charges
involving a seventeen year old and I don't remember twenty
one or twenty two year old something like that, but
those are the only heatings have ever charged with until later,
and then years later, I was not his lawyer after that.
(30:23):
I stopped being his lawyer once this was over. The
first case was over, he was charged with a lot more.
By the way, the reason that he was charged with
the state case not a federal case back in two
thousand and six because they had no proof that he
had ever taken women across state lines. All the young
people that he had any contact with were from Palm Beach.
(30:44):
These were mostly teenagers who worked in what were called
I had never heard this term before, but I learned
that when I was doing the investigation whack shacks. They
were places in the West Palm Beach where you'd go
and pay one hundred dollars and you'd get a happy
(31:04):
ending massage. And so Epstein would go and as people
would go, and they'd go to these young girls will
may get a hundred bucks, and said, you know, we
know a guy who'll give you two hundred dollars if
you do the same thing, and that's how it started.
So it was all local and they couldn't get him
on federal charge because it's not a crime to pay
(31:26):
for sex locally. It's not a federal crime, it's a
state crime. So we pleaded to that state crime.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We're talking to Professor Alan Dershowitz. I put up a poll.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Seventy percent of people who respond to that poll said
they believe that cash matel Pam BONDI Donald Trump are
lying about what's in the Epstein case in front of
them right now. I imagine that those same seventy percent are
going to say, well, of course Alan Dershowitz is going
to lie now too.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What should happen?
Speaker 4 (31:59):
What interest would I have in lying? I have no
interest in the case at this point. I've been completely
cleared and vindicated of anything improper or wrong. I'm just
there to try to straighten out the record. I know
the facts. I looked at the investigation. What should happen
is what I said should have happened from day one.
Everything should be revealed. But by everything, I mean not
(32:21):
only the accusations, some of which are false. We know
that the Sarah ansom accusations were false. Everything should be revealed,
including the negative information about the accusers, and there's lots
of negative information about the accusers. Some of the accusers
ultimately helped Epstein recruit young women, and so everything should
(32:42):
come out. But what shouldn't happen is selective release, that is,
just the accusations without the negative information about the accusers.
That would be unfair with fairst to reproduce everything so
that the public court of public opinion people can make
fair judgment as to who's guilty and who's not. Look,
we know the names of people who have been accused.
(33:03):
They are that some of the most distinguished people. These
are public records. George Mitchell, the man who brought about
peace in Ireland, peace in in the former Yugoslavia. He
was accused of having unprotected sex on a half a
dozen occasions. Another person was Bill Richardson that's been made public.
(33:25):
He was the former ambassador to the u N. Another
person was a who Barack. And so we don't know
whether there's any truth to any of these accusations. We
know they're out there, and you know they've been covered
widely in the press. The Miami Herald wrote article after
article after article by a totally one sided and biased
(33:48):
a journalist who was trying to get the pull of
surprise and didn't because her her reporting was not was.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Not accuratest question about this or were you here? And
we have shade the time?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Has President Trump asked your advice about what he should do?
And just to reiterate, he is not named, accused anything
like that based on everything you've seen.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
No, no, not at all. I'm not. I can tell
you categorically he's not accused. And no, he's not sort
my advice. I have written my op ed in the
Wall Street Journal, I've talked about it and shows like
you words. I'm you know, right now on a book
tour promoting my book, The Preventive State, and so I'm
anxious to have television and radio interviews. And while i
(34:31):
was on my book tour for the Preventive State, this
story broke. And so I've been talking about the story
one than i've been talking about my book.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Thank you with time, sir, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Sure we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I've got a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Yeah, you ain't imagining it. The world has gone insane.
Reclaim your sanity with Clay and fun. Find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your pipe.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
All right, welcome back into Clay Anne Buck. We'll dive
into some stuff on the interview we just did with Jeffrey,
I mean with on Jeffrey Epstein with Professor Jershchwitz, and
we will also dive into some immigration talk and Shane
gillis lighting up the SPI's big fort Hour coming your way.
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Welcome in second hour of play and Buck kicks off now,
Senator Marsha Blackburn of the Great State of Tennessee joins us.
Senator Blackburn, always good to chat with you.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well, it is so good to chat with you. And
of course we've been a little bit busy here in DC.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, and some good things happening. I think so often
in the world of commentary and talk radio, we have
to not only point out the serial failings of the Democrats,
but try to prod the Republicans to move a little
faster or a little further on something. But in this case,
I think a little bit of a golf clap may
be necessary, a little bit of a high five. The
(00:39):
Senate has pushed forward this recision package. Tell us a
bit about what's contained and how does it feel to
be able to be a part of the Senate Senator
as they do something that Republicans have wanted to do
for pretty much my entire adult life.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, you're right about that, and I was looking at
something week Ronald Reagan started to push to try to
defund NPR and the Corporation for Public Broadcasts, And of
course we know that many times they have a very
biased view. They are anti conservative, and you can see
(01:19):
it when you go through and look at how they
covered the Democrat Convention and the Republican Convention. The Democrat
Convention was nearly all positive coverage and the Republican nearly
all negative. Taxpayers do not want their funds to be
used for the Corporation for public broadcasts, addressing that, addressing
(01:41):
some of this wasteful spending that has taken place through
USAID and the State Department. When you look at vegan
food for Zambia, our electric buses in Rwanda, our voter
ID programs in Haiti, then and the list goes on
and on. We could talk for hours of things that
(02:04):
we were able to uncover that these agencies were taking
their appropriated funds for and spending the months, and taxpayers
don't want their hard earned dollars going for that. So
nine billion out of this year's by budget, drawing a
red line through those discretionary spending items, which is what
(02:26):
recisions are for. And then if you say out of
a ten year budget window all of that is gone,
that's about ninety billion dollars in shavings.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
We're talking to Center Marshall Blackburn about all of the
successes that are taking place. Trump basically ran on economy,
border crime. It seems like he is delivering on all
three of those fronts, and I know sometimes they overlap. So,
for instance, the border and crime, we certainly know they're illegal,
violent perpetrators of crimes that should be moved from this country.
(03:01):
Can you remember, you've been in politics for a little
while now, can you remember a more consequential in terms
of delivering results on what someone ran on first six
months for a president than what we have seen so
far from Trump?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Because I can't.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I cannot the way he has has really buckled down.
And you know, Clay, we've talked about this a lot
in the last week, as we remembered a year ago
on Sunday that assassination attempt. He has been very intentional,
very purposeful. He made promises, he has kept those promises.
(03:39):
He's dealing with inflation, he is dealing with Paris, he's
dealing with our standing in the world. He has secured
that southern border. It is the lowest illegal entry into
this country we have ever seen. And we know that
he is making certain that things get done and we're
(04:00):
rebuilding the military, we are addressing waste, fraud, and abuse
in government programs. That is what people voted for. He
is delivering and it is a joy to work with him,
and when you see every single day how he is
sending power and authority and money back to the states,
(04:23):
getting it out of DC, draining the swamp, which he
said he would do, and sending power back to the people,
whether it's education or energy, or regulations or healthcare or benefits,
and saying, here, let's get it out of DC. Let's
get this money back where it belongs.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I think, I know I did. When you put out
I think it was a twenty point plan for President
Trump is basically the Republican platform for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It was super succinct, It was very understandable. If you
go back and look at that, I think it's very
worthwhile maybe to bring that back around to circulate so
people can see it. It is one of the most
remarkably Hey, I'm going to do this, and then he's
delivered on it, and I get sometimes while he's a
little bit frustrated, because I don't know that we've ever
(05:17):
seen anything like that. Lots of politicians say they're going
to do things and then they don't deliver. That's a
very transactional document. And he's delivered on virtually every point
on that document that you guys put out.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
You're right about that, and it was a joy to
chair that platform committee for him, and he was very
much engaged with that and is delivering. And as we
did the big beautiful bill, no tax on tips or overtime,
and the provision I have worked on for years, no
tax on Social Security, And of course we do that
(05:51):
by a six thousand dollars bonus deduction per senior per year.
So a couple marriage filing jointly that are sixty five
and over, that's twelve thousand dollars in bonus income tax
deductions for that couple, and that allows them to utilize
(06:11):
those funds basically tax free. But President Trump made these promises,
he said this is what we're going to do, and
he is delivering on every point, and the American people
are responding. You see, his polling numbers are better than
they have ever been. The Democrats, our friends on the left,
(06:35):
have gone so far off the cliff on the left
that many of my friends who are independents and Democrats
are going, oh my goodness, I can't go there with
them because of how radical they have become and some
of the socialist ideas that they have truly embraced and
(06:58):
are promoting.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Senator Blackburn, I know you're on the Judiciary Committee, and
a very interesting and certainly very qualified nominee just got
put through the Senate panel, right, Emil Bove, who had
defended President Trump in the past, a former federal prosecutor.
I was wondering if you could speak to the level
of opposition to somebody who seems to be so eminently
(07:23):
qualified for the US Court of Appeals for the third
Circuit from Democrats is well, why are they so opposed
to this one? And then also just give us a
sense as to how the judge confirmation machinery in the
Senate is working under Trump's term. So far, are you
getting through the nominees you want to? You need to?
(07:45):
How's that all going?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Well?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
We are working on some more today and earlier this
week we did the first circuit point Court appointee, and
that is Whitney Hermann Dauffer out of Tennessee. She'll be
on the sixth Circuit. And you're referencing Emil Bovi and
Emo had represented President Trump at one point and had
(08:11):
worked with Todd blanche and we got him out of committee. Today.
The Democrats were so upset about this, they did not
want to approve him because they felt like he had
done this, that or the other wrong. But but what
they're going to do is nitpick. They're going to try
to find something and something's wrong with everybody and everything
(08:33):
that's related to President Donald Trump because they have Trump
Derangement syndrome. It is alive, it is out there, they
are living it. And what we did, as the Democrats
got up and walked out after the vote had started,
(08:53):
we continued the vote and he was approved and he has.
Now he will move to the floor for his confirmation vote,
and I hope we vote him very swiftly. Now, the
Democrats are trying to hold up every US Attorney, every
US marshal, every judicial appointment that we have because they
(09:16):
want to impair the ability of President Trump's administration to
carry out their agenda. So we are encouraging Senator Grassley
to find to force the issue of moving forward with
these nominees. Don't hold them over. Let's just as we
(09:40):
do the hearings. Let's move them to the floor. So
we can get them up for the vote vote, because
the Democrats are calling cloture on every single nominee, which
for your circuit judges is thirty hours on the clock
and for the others and for your US attorney it's
(10:00):
two hours. So if they're not going to work with us,
we should be working all night, every night, and every
weekend until we get people confirmed.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
We're talking to Marsha Blackburn. I want to finish, Senator
from Tennessee. I want to finish with this and I'm
going to be hammering at home because I think there's
a lot of New Yorkers listening right now, and I
know there's a lot of Californians. Senator Blackburn is the
primary reason why there is no state income tax in
the state of Tennessee. And for people out there who
are looking at Kami, Mom, Damie that's coming into New
(10:30):
York City, We've got a pretty good economic environment in
the state of Tennessee, wouldn't you suggest.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I think we have a great economic environment. And you know, Clay,
we talk a lot about how the leaving that fight
against the state income tax in Tennessee and killing that
thing that required our state to go through a reset
and look at the programs where we were spending money
and to actually reduce what we were spending because we
(11:00):
didn't have the funds. And we have a balanced budget
amendment for our states. And I think that the reason
you see Tennessee regularly as the number one are two
or three or four state for business and relocations and
business growth and GDP growth, it is because we are
(11:24):
a well managed state and we have made certain that
we will never have a state income tax. We actually
now have it as a part of our state constitution.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Amen, we'll talk to you again soon, Center Blackburn, appreciate
the work and we'll talk and we look forward to
chatting again soon, maybe about a big announcement.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
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(12:07):
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(12:28):
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Speaker 5 (13:12):
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Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh hey, welcome back into Clay and Buck. We've got
Alan Derschwitz joining us a couple of minutes. We want
to bring up to speed on some of the stories
we're going to be diving into with Professor Dershowitz himself,
so he'll you with this. He had that article on
the Wall Street Journal laid out some of a clear
insider perspective on the on the Epstein case, and so
(13:50):
we'll ask him about some of that. And we've also
got interesting news from yesterday that just we'll we'll bring
to Professor Dershowitz is at which is that Pam Bondi
ag Bondi of the DOJ has fired Maureen Comy. That
name is familiar to all of you because Maureen Comy
(14:13):
is the daughter of James Comy, also known as Sanktacomy
to those of you who have been rolling along with
us for a long time. The most sanctumonious and smarmy
federal prosecutor and former FBI chief of perhaps all time
and marine Comy has been fired from the US Attorney's
(14:33):
office in Manhattan. She had previously worked on the prosecutions
of Gielen, Maxwell Jeffrey Epstein and most recently, and what
I think is was a clear failure of the prosecution
to do a good job the Sean Diddy Combe's case,
the Shawn Combs sex trafficking case in New York, where
(14:55):
they went with a rico charge, which Clay and I knew,
I'm not even a lawyer, and I was like, that's
a bad idea, and lawyer Clay agreed. So when the
two of us see it that way, guess what we were, right, Clay,
Maureen Comy getting fired by Bondie. I don't know if
we have more on this other than can't the ag five?
(15:16):
Are you you're serving at the pleasure of the president
when you at some level, right, you're appointed by the
president to be the US Attorney for so I assume
you're at the pleasure of the president. Therefore the age
on behalf of the president can just fire you because
they want to fire you, right? Is that? Is that not?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
How?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think that is an accurate read on it. I
would also point out that she just failed on the
Diddy prosecution.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well yeah, so I just.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, I mean, but I mean, I think if you
are just want to say, hey, this is a Entitan.
It's not based on who your dad is. It's not
based on his relationship with Trump. It's just you aren't
getting the job done. What is the conviction rate for
federal prosecutions, basically.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Ninety eight or it's some. It's if they bring the charge,
you're probably doing a plea deal. Because if you're going
you're going to prison for a very long time.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
That is a tremendous uh swing and a miss by
federal prosecutors. So I actually think you could justify leave
aside whatever her last name is. I actually think that
case was such a mess and they so aggressively overcharged it.
As we said on this program, we were not surprised
by the not guilty verdict, but also they passed over
(16:30):
very routine convictions. They could have gotten them on gun charges,
they could have gotten them on drug charges, things that
were not complicated and didn't need to get into trafficking
or consent or coercion and all this complicated things. For
a jury, all they had to do was say, hey,
he had didn't he have guns with serial numbers filed off.
I mean this is easy case stuff. I mean drugs
(16:53):
put in your possession, These are routine cases now they don't.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
In fact, they're co located illegal drugs and fire arms.
That alone is that now you're talking federal, that's a
charge on its own. If you've got like a kilo
of cocaine in the safe next to next to your
AR fifteen, big problem, big problem.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So it's not as if they had a massive challenge.
All they had to do was just basic blocking and tackling,
and they would have gotten convictions on those cases. So
the fact that they screwed all of that up, to
me is I think an indictment of her that would
justify moving on. Now, does she not get the benefit
of the doubt because her last name is Comy. Probably
we'll talk about this a little bit with Dershowitz. Yeah,
(17:34):
I think it's fair to say we'll talk about that
a little bit with Dershowitz when we come back again.
He had the big interesting Wall Street Journal editorial, and
he was the defense attorney for Jeffrey Epstein during all
of these investigations that began back in two thousand and
five ish, So we will talk with him and get
the absolute latest there. But maybe you're dragging a little bit.
(17:57):
Maybe you don't have the energy that you. Maybe you
just want to be able to put up a little
bit more weight at the gym.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Have you thought about chalk?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Have you thought about adding a little bit of extra
energy to your life so you don't sound like one
of the Democrats were gonna play you who had to
go to pun Sorry, got post traumatic stress because you
watch Trump get shot.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You don't want to be in that camp. You don't
want to be in that camp at all. I sent
chalk last week to my in laws so they they
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If you haven't already, go to chalk dot com. That's
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Clay and Buck. We'll be with the hopefully pressor Gerschwick
(18:55):
here in a second.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It's busy man. We'll be calling him in the meantime,
But we had President Trump just now, I don't let's
not play the audio. Apparently the audio is so low
quality that for all of you listening all across this
country of ours, you'd be tough to make it out
to tell you. He was asked about by a reporter,
would you consider appointing a special council to investigate the
(19:20):
Epstein investigation that just happened? And President Trump responded, I
have nothing to do with it. So I think it
is very, very unlikely that that will happen. I've heard
some people saying that that's what they would like to happen.
Here some commentators out there, Clay. As far as I
can see it, there would have to be some reason
(19:44):
for a special council, and the reason is generally that
there's a conflict of interest. And so now now you're
you would be appointing a special counsel because you'd be saying,
I can't be trusted my administration, can't be trust the
DOJ to handle this internally, and to me that you're
(20:04):
just creating more problems. I don't see why that would
be helpful at all, and I think Trump is there's
almost no chance. In my mind, he's going to go
through with something like that.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well, I think you can just go to the precedent
of the first Trump administration. I think a lot of
people would say they got knocked off their feet by
his frustration with his first Attorney General Sessions. I think
I'm remembering that correctly, right, the former Alabama senator who
was Trump's first attorney general not being willing to just say, hey,
(20:36):
there's nothing to this Russia collusion allegation. Instead you had
the step back, Hey, I've got a conflict. I can't
look at this. Here's the other challenge that I would say,
so I tweet about this a little bit. To me,
the solution is pretty simple. You need to have a
g Pambondi and Cash Pttel have a joint press conference,
(20:56):
answer every question that you possibly can on it. And
by the way, we're waiting on Alan Dershowitz. But I thought,
and so then you kind of draw the line there.
I think the challenge is how many people out there
are going to say, hey, I now trust the decision
(21:19):
that was rendered by the Independent Counsel if it endorses
the decisions made before by Pam Bondi and Cash Ptel
and by the way, I do think the political aspect
of this. Okay, We've got Alan Dershowitz with us now,
and Professor Dershowitz, we appreciate you joining us. We read
some of your editorial yesterday in the Wall Street Journal,
(21:42):
and I just want to start with this question, because
probably the number one question that this audience has before
we dive into a few others.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You wrote about it in the editorial.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Evon Musk said Trump is in the Epstein files, this
larger Epstein universe of investigation. You say that is not
true based on what you know as the defense attorney
for Jeffrey Epstein for many years. What is Trump's role
or involvement in any way in this larger context?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
There's no evidence that Trump is accused of having done
anything improper wrong sexual Donald Trump knew Jeffrey Epstein in
Palm Beach. They hung out together, he said some nice
things about him in an article for Vanity Fair, and
then they got into a fight either over a real
(22:33):
estate matter or about an impropriety of Epstein in relation
to the du order of one of the guests at
marl Lago, and their relationship terminated. Of course, he's in
the files. Half the people in Palm Beacher in the files.
I'm in the files. Of course, I flew on his airplane.
I was his lawyer. All of his lawyers flew on
the airplane, but we never I never flew with anybody
(22:56):
who was young or underage or anything like that. So
there's a big confusion about the file. The file contains,
you know, so many people, thousands and thousands and thousands
of innocent people, and then there's the accusation. So there
are two issues as to the accusation. There is no
client list. Let's be very clear. Jeffrey Epstein never compiled
(23:20):
the list of people to whom he allegedly trafficked any
young woman. It just doesn't exist. It never existed, and
I've never said it existed, and nobody I know has
ever said it existed. Nobody has ever seen it. What
there is is this. The FBI interviewed some of the
alleged victims, and the alleged victims named some people, and
(23:43):
those names have been redacted. I know who those people are.
There's nobody in the current government. There's no Donald Trump,
there's no Bill Clinton, there's nobody. Give you an example,
A woman named Sarah Ransom wrote a series of emails
to The New York Post to Marine Callahan of The
New York Post. In it, she accused Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton,
(24:07):
and Richard Branson of having underage sex with minors and
said she had videos of them. This was in the
run up to the election of twenty sixteen. Wow wow, wow,
big news. So they did an investigation and this woman,
Sarah Ransom, admitted to The New Yorker that she made
up the whole story. Come to whole cloth. She didn't
(24:27):
know anybody. She just made up the story because she
wanted to have something on Jeffrey Epstein. So that's the
kind of thing you get, these kinds of fake accusations,
And of course the courts don't reveal the fake accusations
because they want to protect the so called victims. Now,
Sarah Ransom was not a victim. She's a perpetrator. She
(24:48):
falsely accused people and admitted. But she is being protected
and the people that she accused are not being protected.
So that's what is going on on here, and that's
why some of the courts have been so concerned about
revealing half truth accusations without going and looking at who
(25:10):
the accusers are.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Professor Dershowitz on the issue of the allegations conspiracy, however
one wants to frame it of foreign intelligence contacts specifically,
the allegation has been leveled by some pretty big voices
out there. You mentioned I think in your editorial that
(25:32):
this has happened, that they're saying it's Israel, that there's
Masad connection here, and you address that. Could you lay
out your case here as a former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein,
why you say the foreign intel thing just doesn't hold water?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Well, First of it, was also a former lawyer for
the Mosade. I represented the Masad back in the day
when five of their agents were arrested in Cyprus, and
the Mosade retained me pro bono to represent these five people,
and I got them out. I have good sources in
Israeli intelligence and I can tell you with one hundred
(26:10):
percent assurance there's never been any contact between Israeli intelligence
or Israel in general and Jeffrey Epstein, he became friendly
after all this happened with it had Brock, the former
prime minister. They did business dealings together, but there's never
been any contact with intelligence and the former Prime Minister
(26:32):
of Israel Bennett looked into it again and stated on
behalf of Israel basically that there's no truth to it
at all. And this is logical. It would be impossible.
What if he had worked for any intelligence agency? Mosads
ed the agency. Who's the first person who would have
told his lawyers, me and the other lawyers when we
(26:53):
were trying to get a good deal for him. The
best thing we could have had going for us is,
oh my god, the guy worked for an intelligence agency.
Even alone. He never told us that, And quite the opposite,
he denied any information that would be helpful to him
along those lines. So it's a completely made up story.
Now I know the reason for the made up story.
Made up story had the following basis. His former girlfriend,
(27:16):
Gallainne Maxwell, is now in prisons. Father, Robert Maxwell, who's
a publisher in England, may well have had some connections
to the Mosad, And so Tucker Carlson probably said, oh
my god, his girlfriend, his father had connections. He probably
did too. But then Tucker Carlson goes further and says,
everybody in Washington knows. Everybody in Washington knows that he
(27:40):
works for the Masade. That's just blatant bigotry, and it's
just wrong and it's just not credible, and he ought
to take that back. Nobody in Washington knows that. The
CIA doesn't know it, The White House doesn't know it.
I don't know anybody credible who believes that Jeffrey Epstein
would have been hired by the Mosad or by the CIA.
(28:03):
It's absurd.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
A lot of people point to the initial prosecution. You
were the defense attorney for Jeffrey Epstein, that was called
a quote sweetheart deal. You say Epstein was actually upset
with the deal that he got. How does that deal
compare to you to other criminal defendants. Was it a
sweetheart deal that he got initially?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
No, in fact, it was a worse deal. What we
did is we did a complete analysis of every single
case that was comparable. And remember, the only thing he
was charged with, the only thing he was charged with
was having sexual contact, not sexual intercourse, sexual contact massages
with two women, one way above the age of consent
(28:46):
and the other but for money, so it was a.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Crime, and the other.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
I think three or four months below the aging consent,
seventeen and a half years old. That's we did a
thorough analysis. I did that analysis personally of every case
in Broward County, in Palm Beach County and Miami and
Dade County, of people who were charged with that kind
of thing, not a single one of them got any
prison time. So we went to the the people in
(29:15):
charge and we said, you know, fair is fair. Let's
give him a sentence that corresponds to prepass sentences. Ultimately,
we worked at it where he sentenced to eighteen months
in jail and he'd have to register as a sex offender.
Epstein was furious at that. He fired me, wouldn't pay
my legal fee. Thought I was a terrible lawyer because
(29:38):
I got him such a bad deal. You know, I
thought it was a pretty good deal. And as a
result of that deal. By the way, that's how the
FEDS got involved, because the police officials in Palm Beach
County thought they could do better. So they went to
the well.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
They thought Professor drshwuids they thought there was a lot
of others. I mean, there were a lot of other
allegations of more serious stuff that were out there that
certainly came to light later.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
He was that's right, but he was not charged with
any of that right, So he pleaded guilty. The only
things he's ever pleaded guilty to or these two charges
involving a seventeen year old and I don't remember twenty
one or twenty two year old something like that, but
those are the only heatings have ever charged with until later,
and then years later, I was not his lawyer after that.
(30:23):
I stopped being his lawyer once this was over. The
first case was over, he was charged with a lot more.
By the way, the reason that he was charged with
the state case not a federal case back in two
thousand and six because they had no proof that he
had ever taken women across state lines. All the young
people that he had any contact with were from Palm Beach.
(30:44):
These were mostly teenagers who worked in what were called
I had never heard this term before, but I learned
that when I was doing the investigation whack shacks. They
were places in the West Palm Beach where you'd go
and pay one hundred dollars and you'd get a happy
(31:04):
ending massage. And so Epstein would go and as people
would go, and they'd go to these young girls will
may get a hundred bucks, and said, you know, we
know a guy who'll give you two hundred dollars if
you do the same thing, and that's how it started.
So it was all local and they couldn't get him
on federal charge because it's not a crime to pay
(31:26):
for sex locally. It's not a federal crime, it's a
state crime. So we pleaded to that state crime.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We're talking to Professor Alan Dershowitz. I put up a poll.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Seventy percent of people who respond to that poll said
they believe that cash matel Pam BONDI Donald Trump are
lying about what's in the Epstein case in front of
them right now. I imagine that those same seventy percent are
going to say, well, of course Alan Dershowitz is going
to lie now too.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What should happen?
Speaker 4 (31:59):
What interest would I have in lying? I have no
interest in the case at this point. I've been completely
cleared and vindicated of anything improper or wrong. I'm just
there to try to straighten out the record. I know
the facts. I looked at the investigation. What should happen
is what I said should have happened from day one.
Everything should be revealed. But by everything, I mean not
(32:21):
only the accusations, some of which are false. We know
that the Sarah ansom accusations were false. Everything should be revealed,
including the negative information about the accusers, and there's lots
of negative information about the accusers. Some of the accusers
ultimately helped Epstein recruit young women, and so everything should
(32:42):
come out. But what shouldn't happen is selective release, that is,
just the accusations without the negative information about the accusers.
That would be unfair with fairst to reproduce everything so
that the public court of public opinion people can make
fair judgment as to who's guilty and who's not. Look,
we know the names of people who have been accused.
(33:03):
They are that some of the most distinguished people. These
are public records. George Mitchell, the man who brought about
peace in Ireland, peace in in the former Yugoslavia. He
was accused of having unprotected sex on a half a
dozen occasions. Another person was Bill Richardson that's been made public.
(33:25):
He was the former ambassador to the u N. Another
person was a who Barack. And so we don't know
whether there's any truth to any of these accusations. We
know they're out there, and you know they've been covered
widely in the press. The Miami Herald wrote article after
article after article by a totally one sided and biased
(33:48):
a journalist who was trying to get the pull of
surprise and didn't because her her reporting was not was.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Not accuratest question about this or were you here? And
we have shade the time?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Has President Trump asked your advice about what he should do?
And just to reiterate, he is not named, accused anything
like that based on everything you've seen.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
No, no, not at all. I'm not. I can tell
you categorically he's not accused. And no, he's not sort
my advice. I have written my op ed in the
Wall Street Journal, I've talked about it and shows like
you words. I'm you know, right now on a book
tour promoting my book, The Preventive State, and so I'm
anxious to have television and radio interviews. And while i
(34:31):
was on my book tour for the Preventive State, this
story broke. And so I've been talking about the story
one than i've been talking about my book.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Thank you with time, sir, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Sure we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I've got a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Yeah, you ain't imagining it. The world has gone insane.
Reclaim your sanity with Clay and fun. Find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your pipe.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
All right, welcome back into Clay Anne Buck. We'll dive
into some stuff on the interview we just did with Jeffrey,
I mean with on Jeffrey Epstein with Professor Jershchwitz, and
we will also dive into some immigration talk and Shane
gillis lighting up the SPI's big fort Hour coming your way.
But first up here, Preborn incredibly important work day in
(35:22):
and day out. The lives of sixty seven thousand babies
were saved last year by the efforts of the Preborn staff.
You know the name Preborn. It's a nonprofit that focuses
on saving the lives of unborn children. If last year's
activities are any indication, they're doing an incredible job of this,
and they're doing this day in and day out right now.
They need your donations. They need support from the pro
(35:43):
life community. They don't get any government funding. Preborn brings
in moms who are making that key decision but whether
to give life or choose abortion for their baby, and
they offer them a free ultrasound so they can meet
the child growing in their womb and then it's so
much easier and so much more likely that mom is
going to choose life, and Preborn is there to offer
love and support. Twenty eight dollars is the cost of
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that free ultrasound. So if you have the means, please
consider donation. And someone out there right now who is
truly blessed and wants to spread their grace and has
been very lucky in life, is willing to donate a
new ultrasound machine. I know it it's fifteen thousand dollars,
but a fifteen thousand dollars donation from one person listening
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right now would say thousands and thousands of tiny babies.
It's one hundred percent tax deductible. So please, someone out
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