December 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 2 of The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show dives into the political, cultural, and economic issues shaping America as we head toward the 2026 midterms. Clay opens with breaking news updates on the Brown University shooting investigation, the Bondi Beach tragedy in Australia, and a deadly private plane crash in North Carolina possibly linked to NASCAR circles. While authorities release new surveillance footage in the Brown case, Clay notes the lack of progress and growing public frustration.
The hour’s central theme focuses on President Trump’s economic strategy and messaging challenge. Clay emphasizes that the 2026 election will hinge on three core issues: economy, border, and crime. With border security restored and violent crime rates plummeting to near 60-year lows in major cities, Trump’s biggest hurdle is convincing voters that the economy is improving without sounding out of touch. Clay cites CNN’s Harry Enten, who reports Democrats in Congress have hit their lowest approval rating ever—55 points underwater overall and 61 points among independents, reflecting widespread voter dissatisfaction.
Trump’s Warrior Dividend announcement—a $1,776 tax-free bonus for 1.45 million active-duty service members funded by tariff revenue—should have been universally praised, but Clay highlights how The View criticized the move as a political ploy. He calls this reaction “Trump Derangement Syndrome,” arguing that rewarding soldiers during America’s 250th anniversary is common sense and patriotic. Trump also previewed America 250 celebrations, including hosting the World Cup and Olympics, framing these events as opportunities to restore national pride and optimism.
Clay then pivots to cultural battles with guest Brianna Lyman of The Federalist, who delivers a powerful defense of historical literacy amid efforts to erase America’s past. The discussion centers on Virginia’s removal of a Robert E. Lee statue, the legacy of reconciliation after the Civil War, and the dangers of applying modern moral standards to historical figures. Lyman warns that the left’s obsession with tearing down monuments—from Lee to Jefferson and even Washington—aims to delegitimize America’s founding principles and pave the way for radical ideological shifts. Clay and Lyman explore how this “floor vs. ceiling” approach to history—focusing on flaws instead of achievements—threatens national unity, especially as the country prepares for its 250th anniversary in 2026.
The segment closes with calls from listeners debating economic optimism, historical context, and Trump’s first-year performance in his second term. Clay underscores that Trump 2.0 earns an A+ for decision-making, but effective communication will determine whether voters feel the progress by November. He draws parallels to Ronald Reagan’s slow climb from Carter-era malaise to a 49-state landslide in 1984, predicting that sustained conservative leadership is essential to reverse decades of policy failures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, welcome in Hour number two Thursday edition, Clay Travis
buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us,
continuing to track unfortunately the reality that we seem to
have no idea who the butler, butler, who the shooter
was at Brown University in Rhode Island, just absolutely nothing
(00:24):
that seems to connect anyone to that shooting at all.
They have more and more videos coming out, but none
of them are particularly helpful, so we are continuing to
monitor that.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Also.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Unfortunately, the Bondai shooting, the fallout associated with that. In Australia,
there is a plane that has crashed a small plane
with about six passengers in North Carolina may be connected
to a NASCAR universe there, according to the headline that
(00:57):
is up on CNN. We will update you with the
latest there when we know more. Again, deadly plane crash
in Statesville, North Carolina has occurred reports that there were
six people on that private jet, but that is the
lead story right now, along with the continued pursuit of
(01:19):
who this person at Brown University might have been. With
better photos now and better video analysis potentially coming out
of people of interest in that story, so we will
continue to track it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
A lot of great feedback.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You can go talk to us at the talkback there,
But I wanted to hit you with a couple of.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Different stories that are out there right now.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You're talking kind of of how twenty twenty six is
going to go, and a big part of how twenty
twenty six is going to go is it's the economy.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
We told you on this program it's as easy as EBC. Economy,
border crime. It's very hard to argue now that things
with the border and things with crime aren't better across
the United States right now than they were when Joe
Biden was in office. Vast majorities of Americans they see
(02:13):
what's happened at the border, it's shut down. The vast
majority agrees with what President Trump has done there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And then on.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Crime, basically even Democrats are having to acknowledge. Yeah, Trump's
had some impact in Washington, d C. He's having impact
in Memphis. In my hometown of Nashville, the number of
murders have collapsed. We're headed for I believe, a sixty
year low. Things are moving better there. It's all going
(02:41):
to come down to the economy. And you're thinking, Okay,
well did Democrats have a better message on the economy.
This was on CNN a little bit earlier in the day,
Harry Entton saying that, based on current numbers, Democrats are
the least popular they have ever been. Again CNN, Listen.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Democrats, in the minds of the American public are lower
than the dead sea. What are we talking about here, Well,
let's take a look the net approval rating for Democrats
in Congress.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
You said of Kate Balwin, the lowest ever.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Look at this.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Overall, they are fifty five points underwater. They're approval rating
is south of twenty percent. It's even worse when you
look at Independence. Look at this negative sixty one points.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
That means that they're approval rating is sixty one points
lower than.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Their disapproval rating.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Quinnipiac has been pulling this question for the better part
of the twenty first century. They have never found Democrats,
at least those in Congress, and worse shape than they
are right now.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Okay, so it would be one thing if you said, well,
Republicans are struggling on the economy, and as a result,
there's going to be a massive beatdown that happens in
twenty twenty six, people don't really like Democrats either, So
there is just a general disdain, discord, and tip that
is out there among voters, frankly for both political parties.
(04:04):
And again, I think this is a legacy of Biden inflation,
which has made everybody angry because all goods just cost
more than they feel like they than we feel like
they should. And also the Trump derangement syndrome means even
when Trump does something that should be one hundred percent approval, okay,
(04:27):
Trump said, I'm going to give every member of the
military seven hundred and seventy six dollars in honor of
our nation's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary and the fact
that tariff's revenue is coming in better. We're going to
give everyone that is in our military a Christmas bonus.
(04:49):
One point four five million people, those out there that
are putting their lives on the line.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
To protect us. I don't I'm being honest with you all.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I don't understand how anyone in America could have an
issue with that. But I think it's fair to say
that a lot of our soldiers are underpaid, they haven't
gotten raises, They're doing their best to raise their families
on wages that are often challenging. And President Trump sees
that and he says, hey, you know what, let's just
(05:21):
give an end of the year bonus to all the
soldiers out there, and let's do it in a way
that celebrates the founding of our American republic. Let's give
them seventeen hundred and seventy six dollars.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It seems like something that nobody.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Could disagree with. Well, unless you happen to listen to
the view woo Be Goldberg. She ain't happy with it. Listen,
the one thing I'll give him credit on is this
bonus is to troops.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
He's giving him basically seventeen hundred dollars if they get well,
I want to see the money, he says, tariff revenue.
That's what I'm most intrigued to see if that's actually
the case. Listen, coming off of the government, check that,
because I don't believe that. Well, in the delay that
they all had, if not, they got back pay. But
I mean, people need help, but all Americans need help
(06:08):
right now, and just a handout isn't the answer. Smart
policies are well, he's what he's doing is he's thinking,
if I make sure that the.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Soldiers have what they need, they'll back me and what
I want.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
See, Okay, what does that even mean? They'll back me
and what I want. I mean the soldiers are responsible
for executing the vision of the commander in chief. That
is actually the job of the President of the United
States to direct our military, and then the soldiers act
at the behest of the commander in chief. You think
(06:42):
that they were going to reject orders from the commander
in chief, and then suddenly at the end of the
year you get seventeen seventy six dollars additional and you say, oh,
you know what, in retrospect, now I'll do whatever the
president wants. This is this is crazy talk. Okay, this
is absolutely bonkers. Is an example of Trump derangement syndrome.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That something that should be I think.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Honestly one hundred percent one hundred percent approval. Hey, we've
had better revenue than we expected with tariffs. Who deserves
to get some of that better revenue from tariffs? How
about our soldiers hardworking in honor of America to fifty
And I will say, we had that caller talking about
the vibe. Sometimes it's hard to get a vibe on
(07:28):
a country of three hundred and fifty million ish people, right,
what is the overall vibe check? It's constantly going to
be up and down. Some states people are happier, some
states people are not happier. I do think that this
is significant. Trump gets the importance of big events in
helping to drive the overall vibe of a nation, the
(07:50):
overall net positivity. And he talked about this last night,
and some of you said, a couple weeks ago, I
was up for the World Cup and you say the draw,
and he said, I hate the World Cup. I don't
care any thing at all about soccer. Soccer stinks. I
do think that there is going to be a lot
of positivity coming out of hosting the World Cup this
(08:13):
coming summer. It's going to be a positive experience, I
believe for our nation, not dissimilar to how it was
when we hosted in nineteen ninety four the Men's World Cup,
and then I believe we hosted in nineteen ninety nine
the Women's World Cup. A lot of young women out
there remember that event. I believe that it was when
(08:35):
Brandy Chastain won and ripped off her ripped off her
shirt and slid in the sports bra, that iconic celebratory
moment that everybody remembers, particularly young women who were fans
of that American women's soccer team before they lost their
mind and started listening to Megan. Rapinos of the world say, hey,
(08:55):
you know what we need more of in women's sports.
Dudes pretending to be chicks, we need more of. Here
is cut seven Trump pointing this out. And I do
think the UFC fight at the White House. I think
the World Cup two fifty. I think everything about the
two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of our nation's founding has
(09:16):
the opportunity to uplift us in national consciousness.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Cut seven.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
Soon we will host the World Cup and the Olympics,
both of which I got. But most importantly, we will
celebrate the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration
of Independence. There could be no more fitting tribute to
this epic milestone than to complete the comeback of America
that began just one year ago.
Speaker 7 (09:43):
When the world.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Looks at us next year, let them see a nation
that is loyal to its citizens, faithful to its worker,
is confident to its identity, certain to its destiny, and
the envy of the entire globe. We are respected again
like we have never been respected before.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Okay, so that is President Trump last night. All right,
let's grab some more of your calls. A lot of
people want to weigh in. Weane out in your Belinda, California,
that's Richard Nixon territory. If I'm not mistaken, you think
the economy's pretty good compared to what you've lived through
in the past.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
Yeah, this economy right now is not near as bad
as what it was back with Jimmy Carter. I bought
my second home in nineteen seventy eight, and I was
paying fourteen and a quarter percent interest on my second home,
and we were.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Not only dealing with.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
That, but we were dealing with a gasoline bargo and we
couldn't even buy gasoline except for every odd or even day.
I spent many days at my work because I couldn't
even get home to my wife and kids. And these
people that are whining right now, they don't know how
bad it can actually get, and you know, it just
(10:57):
upsets me the hell. I'm not this economy is not
near as bad as what they think, because it could
be a lot worse.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Thank you for the call. Robert in Alabama. You're getting
at the issue that I think is a challenge. Here's
the biggest challenge that I would say the Trump White
House has, and Robert's gonna address this. You have to
simultaneously tell people things are getting better without appearing to
be out of touch. So when you say, and every
time I say it, it's true, the economy is getting better,
(11:26):
somebody hops in my mentions and they say, you're out
of touch. You have no idea what's going on in
my world. The economy sucks. There's always somebody who says
that on social media. That reality echoes throughout the country.
So the challenge is, how do you tell people things
are getting better, which they are, while simultaneously acknowledging that
(11:47):
you can seem out of touch if people don't feel
yet that things are getting better. And that's what you're
calling about, Robert in Alabama.
Speaker 8 (11:57):
Yes, and they're under this misconception that you know, soon
as soon as the president gets into office the next day,
everything that he promised is going to take place that day.
And you know, and that's the sad reality that that
that most people think of because they don't understand the
mechanism here. You know, and how all this works. Like
(12:19):
you were alluding to earlier about you know, the mess
that Reagan took over from Jimmy Carter. We had, you know,
a much worse economy then, and it took him nearly
four years of the eight years that he was in
office to to actually turn it around. Because it just
doesn't happen overnight. I mean, and how And I think
(12:43):
that you know, people like me and I'm nobody, but
you know, I get it. I understand how this works.
But I don't think there's there's a plethora of individuals
out there that just don't understand this. And I think
that that language needs to be spoken to these people
and get to those people, because I'll tell you, the
(13:04):
one thing that we got to worry about now is
that the midterms right now, as far as I'm concerned,
because if you know all this that Trump has done
in just this eleven months, and if we lose in
the midterms and then lose and then it gets back
to the Democrats, we're you know, we're back to be
beyond square one again.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, I agree, and thank you for the call, Robert.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
That is the challenge, right any one individual president has
got so much to do. We need to string together
about twenty years of good presidents to help to make
up for the disastrous choices that have been made so far.
And that's why I said, look, Trump two point zero.
To me, he gets an A plus for the first
(13:49):
year of Trump two point zero. I can't imagine it
being much better. But what Robert is hitting on, and
what many of you understand, is really the presidency comes
down to two things. Decision making. Are you making the
best decisions? That is zero point one? Are you making
the right decisions? Are you steering the ship in the
(14:09):
direction in which the country needs to go. Decision making
is the most important That's basically what we elect you
to do. Second part is communicating why the decisions that
you have made are helping to make the average Americans
life better. I think that Trump in his first year
has made the right decisions. He has made by and large,
(14:30):
nobody's perfect, but by and large he has made the
right decisions. Now he's got to communicate how those decisions
are making the life of the average American better. And
are the average Americans going to accept that argument by
the time we get to November, Because again, remember a
lot of times it takes four years for the economy's
(14:53):
change and for the trajectory to be felt. Two years
can be very tough, particularly when you look at what
Trump was taking over look. Gold and silver topped the
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On the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back in Clay, Travis bock Sexton Show. Good news
out there. We're going to talk with Breonna Lyman. I'll
ask her about this. She's a writer at the Federalist.
We're going to talk to her at the bottom of
the hour. But HHS under Robert F. Kennedy Junior, announced
earlier today that they are putting into place rules that
(17:09):
will stop any medical treatments for trans surgeries for children
under the age of eighteen years old. Now again, This
is another basically common sense decision. You can't get a
tattoo in most cities and states across America. There are
regulations that would stop me. I've got a fifteen year old.
(17:30):
I wouldn't be able to take my fifteen year old
into a tattoo parlor and have him get tatted up.
How in the world, if we're saying, hey, young people
shouldn't be able to do that to their bodies, how
in the world are we allowing this so called gender
transition surgery to be occurring. I think this is another
win for common sense. We'll talk about that and more.
(17:50):
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(18:54):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We appreciate
all of you hanging out with us. First guest of
the day joining us now. I've been impressed at how
outspoken she has been on social media of late. You
certainly are seeing her a ton all over the airwaves,
(19:14):
whether it's Fox News, whether it's Fox Business, CNN as well.
Brianna Lyman joins us now, and she also writes at
The Federalist. My friend Sean Davis got a great company
that he helps to drive there. Brianna, I've been seeing
you way in a lot on this I would say
maybe echo or continuing lasting legacy associated with this era
(19:39):
of taking down historic statues and trying to condemn people
based on modern day standards for decisions that they made
in the past. And in particular, you've been tweeting a
lot about the state of Virginia pulling a Roberty Lee
statue out of the capital, where every state has the
ability to have two different statues. Strikes you about that
(20:01):
decision and what does it say about the culture of
America that we are still dealing with these continued reverberations
from the crazy era of twenty twenty.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Yeah, the point of these statutes are you're supposed to
honor people and who you cannot tell the story of
your state without mentioning. Robert E. Lee is one of
those people that you cannot tell a story about Virginia
without talking about Robert E.
Speaker 8 (20:28):
Lee.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
And he's not idolized because he was fighting for the Confederacy,
which wanted to preserve slavery. He's more so idolized for
what he did after the war. This man became the
face of reconciliation, and it's very easy for people in
twenty twenty five to sit back and say he should
have been executed, He should have been exiled. This man
was a trader. But unless you're in eighteen sixty and
(20:51):
you understand that it is not country first, it is
state first. That roberty Lee literally said, he doesn't believe
the Confederacy had to read to the Seed that he
thought it was a bad idea. But he said, if
my home state of Virginia seceeds, I will not take
up arms against my home state.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
Right.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
So that's the valor that we're talking about. And then
after the war ended, he convinced Confederates who wanted to
go into the bushes and cite guerrilla warfare. They were
ready to die to the very end, and he said, no,
go home, rebuild your families. It's okay to ask for
a pardon. He did it himself. It's okay to want
to be friends with your northern neighbors.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Again.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
We need peace and reconciliation. And it wasn't very easy
to do that. Nation was holding on by a thread,
and Roberty Lee helped convince a very disgruntled self that
it's time to make peace and that deserves remembrance.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
All of that is one hundred percent try. And this
is my Civil War history. Nerd, just geeking out here.
Everything that you said, is one hundred percent true. I've
made these arguments out there.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
One of the biggest threats that we face in this country,
a profound lack of historical literacy such that would you
just lay out, I would add, and you and I
were sending messages about this. Actually, there was a huge
radical Republican group that wanted to execute as many different
former Southerners as that fought against the North, as many
(22:14):
as they could, including Jefferson Davis, everybody else, and they
actually ended up not winning that battle, and as a
result the reconciliation of the nation which went far better
because leaders on the North and the South side said
let's lay down arms and let's actually come back together
as a nation. Very few people know that. Why do
(22:35):
you think that is?
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Yeah, I'm so happy you brought that up. So Thaddeus
Stevens was a radical Republican who kind of led that
charge to execute and exile these Confederates. But if you
go back even to eighteen sixty Lincoln's first inaugural dress,
he spoke of mystic cords of memory. What he was
trying to do is he was trying to remind both
those in the South and in the North that at
the end of the day, they were people whose ancestors
(22:58):
fought together in the Revolution, they were connected by blood
and memory, and they were all still Americans at the
end of the day and throughout the entire war, Lincoln's
entire goal was keep the Union together. He did not
want to exile or kill all of the Confederates because
he understood they are part of the Union. They just
need to kind of be coaxed back into it.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It's the same reason why Grant work to get such
generous surrender terms for Lee, because they understood that if
you want a union to actually be united, you can't
have half of them, and we're talking a massive half
be executed or exiled. It didn't work that way. And
again it's very easy for us in twenty twenty five
to say, oh, well, they should have been executed, they
(23:39):
should have been exiled, But you try holding a country together.
And the reason that this story right now is so important,
it's not just Roberty Lee, You and I said this.
They tore down statues of Jefferson. And if we are
making the standard that if you're not morally perfect, your
statue has to come down, then so does Jefferson's, so
does Washingtons because they own slaves. And that's the entire
(23:59):
part point of this entire woke movement. We don't get
to have heroes like Washington or Jefferson because they were
stained by slavery.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
It doesn't matter what else they did. And that's why
we have to make sure that we're being honest about
historical realities and about living in those times and what
those people did. Besides, you know, the moral stains of slavery.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's also important to apply it. I think you mentioned Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln.
Certainly the monuments those guys have been attacked for a
variety of reasons. Martin Luther King Junior used to do
an advice column, believe it or not, you may have
read this and said that anybody who was gay was
victim of a mental illness and that they should be
basically committed, essentially, And that was in the nineteen fifties. Well,
(24:44):
now that would be considered reprehensible by many parts of
the nation. Do we tear down his statue as well?
All of us, even the ones like you and me
who think we're pretty good at things, and everybody out
there listening, We're all going to be judged as lacking
by history because no one lives up to whatever the
standard is in the future in a perfect way.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
You actually, and I think Robert E.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Lee is such an interesting example of this because, as
you mentioned in Arlington, he was offered and spent all
night pacing trying to decide do I want to take
over command of the entire Union forces or do I
want to stay loyal to my state. A lot of
people don't understand this in today's day and age, but
your state used to be the equivalent of a country
(25:28):
for many people because in the eighteen sixties a lot
of people never traveled outside of their state borders because
it was so difficult comparatively to be able to travel.
And so we think of state residents now as being
something that is easy to change. And maybe your national
character matters more than the state from which you live.
But back in the day, your state was more important
(25:49):
to a large extent than your country was, because most
people never left their states.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Yeah, and it's you know part of that, you know,
Ordo Amorus, right, you rank things priority and to your point,
people one didn't travel more than fifteen miles outside of
their community in most cases. And two, you have to
remember that up until eighteen sixty five, thinks we're operating
pretty independent of the federal government.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Right.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
It wasn't until after the Civil War that we saw
the federal government's role kind of expand. And it's been expanding,
you know, it's expanding today as we speak. So states
really did function as that country ideology right there. And
Roberty Lee is someone who loved the Union, but he
loved his state war. And it's hard for people today,
(26:32):
you know, the same people who would go publicly bash
RFK Junior, their cousin, their brother, whoever, it is to
understand that back then people had hierarchies of priorities and
it was God, family, state, country, and it came in
that order. And that's what Lee did. So you have
to remember Lee in the times he was in versus
the time we are and now. And you brought up
(26:52):
a great point when Martin Luther King Junior. Look, this
is a man who fought for good things. He also
apparently was beating his wife, right, And at some point
there's going to be someone, a big group of people
who say wife beating is bad, which it is, and
they're going to say, well, we got to tear down
I'm okay, of course that would be ridiculous, but that's
what is going to happen with this slippery slope. And
I'm pretty aggrieved that the same people who are sitting
(27:14):
today convincing us that baby should be murdered in the womb,
that we should be transing young kids are suddenly the
arbiters of what is good and what's bad, and we're
going to listen to them.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Martin Luther King also look was assassinated in nineteen sixty
eight on that balcony of the Lorraine Hotel in Memphis.
As many people have seen in the hotel room when
he was assassinated, was a mistress.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Martin Luther King, as Robert F. Kennedy and John F.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Kennedy and a lot of people of that era in particular,
was not an upstanding family man in the way that
many would want men to be today and in the past.
And so again, if you go and look at the
past of many of our historic figures who are heroes
and change the course of the nation, they all have
had some form of sordid past or aspect of their
(28:04):
personality that would be found lacking, And I just think
it's interesting where we draw the line and where we don't.
How old are you, Brianna, I'm twenty seven, all right,
so you're twenty seven. I and Buck, if you were here,
we're both huge history people. I was a history major.
I read everything I can about history. When you are
(28:25):
around people your own age, how much historical illiteracy do
you see? And second part of that, how much of
that feels almost intentional? Because if you can tear down
the heroes of American history, what you really allow is
for everything to be wiped clean. Because when you're saying, hey,
if we can point to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson
(28:46):
and say they own slaves, therefore their moral legitimacy is questioned,
then it starts to allow you to question the Declaration
of Independence and the Constitution and argue that America was
founded on a huge hill of lies. And so we
can just wipe clean of everything that the country has
been founded on. That feels historically like the goal.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Yeah, the goal is to delegitimize the work of the founders.
In my generation in particular, you know, we've been indoctrinated
in public education and even higher education to a degree
where we're ashamed of our heritage and our ancestors. And
it's not always been like that. You know, you go
back to, you know, the seventies when Roberty Lee was
given his citizenship back and full that passed. I think
(29:29):
it was like four ten to three. It was some
massive margin because everybody Republican and Democrat understood that Roberty
Lee was significant for a few reasons, and it wasn't
so polarizing. You go to what was in nineteen ninety three,
the movie Gettysburg came out. They portray Lee as an
unrepentant racist. At the end scene, he's being cheered on
(29:51):
by his soldiers as he goes to surrender. Right, And
so there was a consensus really up until the past
twenty years that there are some figures who have a
definitely complex path where some things were bad, and we
don't condone that. But nonetheless it doesn't take away from
the reason that we look up to them or at
least recognize their impact on America.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I want to write another book, and my last book
just came out, But I think what you're getting at
I've been kind of grappling with in my own head.
It's do we define people by their ceilings or their floors?
You know, do and a lot of times. And I
just came from a funeral of my uncle this week,
and he didn't have much of a floor. He had
(30:36):
a great ceiling. But if you go and watch a eulogy,
it almost always is this is what he or she achieved.
Let's talk about the positives. We don't marinate in the
awfulness of the failures that we have in our life.
At the end of the life. We like to define
people based on their ceilings. It seems to me that
the Democrat Party in general focuses on the floor of
(30:58):
American history the things that that they want to say
are the worst parts of our historic figures. And it
seems in general like Republicans tend to focus on the ceiling.
Is that metaphor out of line or do you think
there's some truth to it?
Speaker 5 (31:12):
No, I think it's accurate. And let's think why does
the left focus on the worst of the worst. Because
the things that they care about, right, socialism, communism, that
it's fundamentally incompatible with small R republicanism. And if you
actually want to implement communism and socialism on a large scale.
You have to fundamentally reshape America. You have to get
rid of the Declaration, you have to get rid of
(31:33):
the Bill of Rights, you have to get rid of
the institutions and what underpins those institutions, which is Christianity,
to start fresh. So they have to focus on trying
to sour the sentiment of the American people by bashing
our heroes Jefferson Washington. Those are heroes, they should be revered,
and they are going to do this. I'm actually really
(31:54):
upset that we're coming into two fifty and I'm not
feeling as patriotic as I should be because there's so
many people that are trying to tear down the legacy
of our founders because they want to delegitimize that they
can replace.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Are you so you're talking about two fifty and I
think it is incredibly important because I wasn't around in
America two hundred. But for those of you out there
that remember nineteen seventy six, it seems like there was
a profound national spirit of optimism that came out of
that two hundredth Birthday celebration. Are you optimistic that next
year we can have something similar on America? To fifty
(32:28):
or do you think the Nicole Hannah Joneses of the
World and the sixteen nineteen project have been so successful
in tearing down American history that it's impossible to bring
everybody together.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I think the Overton window is shifting, and I'm glad
that President Trump is in office. I would like to
see some changes to be a board running the two
hundred and fifty celebrations because this is a time to
honor the founders. And I say this as someone who's
you know, I'm related too, Declaration of Independence definers. My
two sixth great grand uncles were militia met in the
battles of Lexington and Concord. My family thought this. They
(33:00):
live this, and honoring their legacy and everyone else's legacy
is so important to me because without their sacrifices, you
and I wouldn't be speaking today.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Uh, Brianna, how can people find you if they want
to see your content? And or maybe they got kids
and grandkids out there that are in your age bracket,
and maybe they're more likely to respond in a positive
way to somebody their own age than people their age.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Well, I'm trying to be a patriot maxing, So if
You could find me on Twitter at Brian alignment too
or Instagram Brianna dot Lineman.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Awesome, Hey, we appreciate the time. Have a good Christmas,
and thanks for fighting the good fight. I mean, I
saw you fighting history battles on social media, which I
almost never see anybody else doing, and I wanted to
make sure you've got a chance to talk with you.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
Thank you, Marry Christmas. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
That's Brianna Lyman. That's fantastic. I mean history nerding out.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I mean again, when I see somebody just defending he's
twenty seven, the historic legacy of Robert E. Lee, I'm like, Wow,
maybe there are some people out there are in their
twenties that actually do have knowledge about American history. Makes
me a little bit more optimistic. I've got a winner
for you tonight, Thursday Night football. Matthew Stafford, Sam Darnold,
the Rams going up against the Seahawks. Each of these
(34:13):
guys to throw one and a half more than one
and a half touchdown passes. If you go to pricepicks
dot com, you go to the price picks app, use
my name Clay Clay. You can get hooked up. Three
point five X is what that pays off. You're just
watching Thursday night football tonight as many of us, myself included,
(34:34):
will be great matchup in the NFC West, the Rams
going up against the Seahawks. If each of these quarterbacks
throws they got to throw it, one and a half
touchdowns are more than you will get three point five x.
You can play five dollars right now and you will
get fifty dollars. You play five dollars, you get fifty
dollars deposited in your account. That is pricepicks dot Com
(34:55):
Code Clay, price Picks app. You can play in California, Texas, Georgia.
If you're we only left out thirteen million people playing
forty states prize Picks code c Lay, you ain't imagining it.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
The world has gone insane.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
We claim your sanity with Clay and find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton Show. We got
a lot of people who want a way in. I'll
take some of your calls. A lot of positivity coming
in from Brionna Lineman. I think Buck and I are
(35:31):
going to try to do in twenty twenty six as
a part of America. Two fifty more guests where we
can have sort of a history conversation with people out there,
so that you can share with your kids and your grandkids,
hopefully a little bit more historic knowledge. Because as a
college history major and a guy who thought about going
(35:53):
to get a PhD in history as one of my
favorite things to do. When they can control the way
we talk about history, I don't think a lot of
people have recognized how deletarious.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
That impact is and how.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Destructive the goal is to try to undermine the entire
history of this country. Because again, if you can redefine,
as Nicole Hanna Jones did and the New York Times did,
the founding of this country in sixteen nineteen, when the
first slaves got here, as opposed to in seventeen seventy
six when we declared independence from England, then you can
(36:31):
argue that the entire country is a pit of despair
and awfulness and rotten at its core.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And so therefore all of.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
American history deserves to be torn down, burned down and
replaced with something else. That is their goal. And two
point fifty in America gives us a great chance to
tell them no,
Oh, welcome in Hour number two Thursday edition, Clay Travis
buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us,
continuing to track unfortunately the reality that we seem to
have no idea who the butler, butler, who the shooter
was at Brown University in Rhode Island, just absolutely nothing
(00:24):
that seems to connect anyone to that shooting at all.
They have more and more videos coming out, but none
of them are particularly helpful, so we are continuing to
monitor that.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Also.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Unfortunately, the Bondai shooting, the fallout associated with that. In Australia,
there is a plane that has crashed a small plane
with about six passengers in North Carolina may be connected
to a NASCAR universe there, according to the headline that
(00:57):
is up on CNN. We will update you with the
latest there when we know more. Again, deadly plane crash
in Statesville, North Carolina has occurred reports that there were
six people on that private jet, but that is the
lead story right now, along with the continued pursuit of
(01:19):
who this person at Brown University might have been. With
better photos now and better video analysis potentially coming out
of people of interest in that story, so we will
continue to track it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
A lot of great feedback.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You can go talk to us at the talkback there,
But I wanted to hit you with a couple of.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Different stories that are out there right now.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You're talking kind of of how twenty twenty six is
going to go, and a big part of how twenty
twenty six is going to go is it's the economy.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
We told you on this program it's as easy as EBC. Economy,
border crime. It's very hard to argue now that things
with the border and things with crime aren't better across
the United States right now than they were when Joe
Biden was in office. Vast majorities of Americans they see
(02:13):
what's happened at the border, it's shut down. The vast
majority agrees with what President Trump has done there.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And then on.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Crime, basically even Democrats are having to acknowledge. Yeah, Trump's
had some impact in Washington, d C. He's having impact
in Memphis. In my hometown of Nashville, the number of
murders have collapsed. We're headed for I believe, a sixty
year low. Things are moving better there. It's all going
(02:41):
to come down to the economy. And you're thinking, Okay,
well did Democrats have a better message on the economy.
This was on CNN a little bit earlier in the day,
Harry Entton saying that, based on current numbers, Democrats are
the least popular they have ever been. Again CNN, Listen.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Democrats, in the minds of the American public are lower
than the dead sea. What are we talking about here, Well,
let's take a look the net approval rating for Democrats
in Congress.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
You said of Kate Balwin, the lowest ever.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Look at this.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Overall, they are fifty five points underwater. They're approval rating
is south of twenty percent. It's even worse when you
look at Independence. Look at this negative sixty one points.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
That means that they're approval rating is sixty one points
lower than.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Their disapproval rating.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Quinnipiac has been pulling this question for the better part
of the twenty first century. They have never found Democrats,
at least those in Congress, and worse shape than they
are right now.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Okay, so it would be one thing if you said, well,
Republicans are struggling on the economy, and as a result,
there's going to be a massive beatdown that happens in
twenty twenty six, people don't really like Democrats either, So
there is just a general disdain, discord, and tip that
is out there among voters, frankly for both political parties.
(04:04):
And again, I think this is a legacy of Biden inflation,
which has made everybody angry because all goods just cost
more than they feel like they than we feel like
they should. And also the Trump derangement syndrome means even
when Trump does something that should be one hundred percent approval, okay,
(04:27):
Trump said, I'm going to give every member of the
military seven hundred and seventy six dollars in honor of
our nation's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary and the fact
that tariff's revenue is coming in better. We're going to
give everyone that is in our military a Christmas bonus.
(04:49):
One point four five million people, those out there that
are putting their lives on the line.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
To protect us. I don't I'm being honest with you all.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I don't understand how anyone in America could have an
issue with that. But I think it's fair to say
that a lot of our soldiers are underpaid, they haven't
gotten raises, They're doing their best to raise their families
on wages that are often challenging. And President Trump sees
that and he says, hey, you know what, let's just
(05:21):
give an end of the year bonus to all the
soldiers out there, and let's do it in a way
that celebrates the founding of our American republic. Let's give
them seventeen hundred and seventy six dollars.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It seems like something that nobody.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Could disagree with. Well, unless you happen to listen to
the view woo Be Goldberg. She ain't happy with it. Listen,
the one thing I'll give him credit on is this
bonus is to troops.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
He's giving him basically seventeen hundred dollars if they get well,
I want to see the money, he says, tariff revenue.
That's what I'm most intrigued to see if that's actually
the case. Listen, coming off of the government, check that,
because I don't believe that. Well, in the delay that
they all had, if not, they got back pay. But
I mean, people need help, but all Americans need help
(06:08):
right now, and just a handout isn't the answer. Smart
policies are well, he's what he's doing is he's thinking,
if I make sure that the.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Soldiers have what they need, they'll back me and what
I want.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
See, Okay, what does that even mean? They'll back me
and what I want. I mean the soldiers are responsible
for executing the vision of the commander in chief. That
is actually the job of the President of the United
States to direct our military, and then the soldiers act
at the behest of the commander in chief. You think
(06:42):
that they were going to reject orders from the commander
in chief, and then suddenly at the end of the
year you get seventeen seventy six dollars additional and you say, oh,
you know what, in retrospect, now I'll do whatever the
president wants. This is this is crazy talk. Okay, this
is absolutely bonkers. Is an example of Trump derangement syndrome.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That something that should be I think.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Honestly one hundred percent one hundred percent approval. Hey, we've
had better revenue than we expected with tariffs. Who deserves
to get some of that better revenue from tariffs? How
about our soldiers hardworking in honor of America to fifty
And I will say, we had that caller talking about
the vibe. Sometimes it's hard to get a vibe on
(07:28):
a country of three hundred and fifty million ish people, right,
what is the overall vibe check? It's constantly going to
be up and down. Some states people are happier, some
states people are not happier. I do think that this
is significant. Trump gets the importance of big events in
helping to drive the overall vibe of a nation, the
(07:50):
overall net positivity. And he talked about this last night,
and some of you said, a couple weeks ago, I
was up for the World Cup and you say the draw,
and he said, I hate the World Cup. I don't
care any thing at all about soccer. Soccer stinks. I
do think that there is going to be a lot
of positivity coming out of hosting the World Cup this
(08:13):
coming summer. It's going to be a positive experience, I
believe for our nation, not dissimilar to how it was
when we hosted in nineteen ninety four the Men's World Cup,
and then I believe we hosted in nineteen ninety nine
the Women's World Cup. A lot of young women out
there remember that event. I believe that it was when
(08:35):
Brandy Chastain won and ripped off her ripped off her
shirt and slid in the sports bra, that iconic celebratory
moment that everybody remembers, particularly young women who were fans
of that American women's soccer team before they lost their
mind and started listening to Megan. Rapinos of the world say, hey,
(08:55):
you know what we need more of in women's sports.
Dudes pretending to be chicks, we need more of. Here
is cut seven Trump pointing this out. And I do
think the UFC fight at the White House. I think
the World Cup two fifty. I think everything about the
two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of our nation's founding has
(09:16):
the opportunity to uplift us in national consciousness.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Cut seven.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
Soon we will host the World Cup and the Olympics,
both of which I got. But most importantly, we will
celebrate the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration
of Independence. There could be no more fitting tribute to
this epic milestone than to complete the comeback of America
that began just one year ago.
Speaker 7 (09:43):
When the world.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Looks at us next year, let them see a nation
that is loyal to its citizens, faithful to its worker,
is confident to its identity, certain to its destiny, and
the envy of the entire globe. We are respected again
like we have never been respected before.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Okay, so that is President Trump last night. All right,
let's grab some more of your calls. A lot of
people want to weigh in. Weane out in your Belinda, California,
that's Richard Nixon territory. If I'm not mistaken, you think
the economy's pretty good compared to what you've lived through
in the past.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
Yeah, this economy right now is not near as bad
as what it was back with Jimmy Carter. I bought
my second home in nineteen seventy eight, and I was
paying fourteen and a quarter percent interest on my second home,
and we were.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Not only dealing with.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
That, but we were dealing with a gasoline bargo and we
couldn't even buy gasoline except for every odd or even day.
I spent many days at my work because I couldn't
even get home to my wife and kids. And these
people that are whining right now, they don't know how
bad it can actually get, and you know, it just
(10:57):
upsets me the hell. I'm not this economy is not
near as bad as what they think, because it could
be a lot worse.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Thank you for the call. Robert in Alabama. You're getting
at the issue that I think is a challenge. Here's
the biggest challenge that I would say the Trump White
House has, and Robert's gonna address this. You have to
simultaneously tell people things are getting better without appearing to
be out of touch. So when you say, and every
time I say it, it's true, the economy is getting better,
(11:26):
somebody hops in my mentions and they say, you're out
of touch. You have no idea what's going on in
my world. The economy sucks. There's always somebody who says
that on social media. That reality echoes throughout the country.
So the challenge is, how do you tell people things
are getting better, which they are, while simultaneously acknowledging that
(11:47):
you can seem out of touch if people don't feel
yet that things are getting better. And that's what you're
calling about, Robert in Alabama.
Speaker 8 (11:57):
Yes, and they're under this misconception that you know, soon
as soon as the president gets into office the next day,
everything that he promised is going to take place that day.
And you know, and that's the sad reality that that
that most people think of because they don't understand the
mechanism here. You know, and how all this works. Like
(12:19):
you were alluding to earlier about you know, the mess
that Reagan took over from Jimmy Carter. We had, you know,
a much worse economy then, and it took him nearly
four years of the eight years that he was in
office to to actually turn it around. Because it just
doesn't happen overnight. I mean, and how And I think
(12:43):
that you know, people like me and I'm nobody, but
you know, I get it. I understand how this works.
But I don't think there's there's a plethora of individuals
out there that just don't understand this. And I think
that that language needs to be spoken to these people
and get to those people, because I'll tell you, the
(13:04):
one thing that we got to worry about now is
that the midterms right now, as far as I'm concerned,
because if you know all this that Trump has done
in just this eleven months, and if we lose in
the midterms and then lose and then it gets back
to the Democrats, we're you know, we're back to be
beyond square one again.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, I agree, and thank you for the call, Robert.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
That is the challenge, right any one individual president has
got so much to do. We need to string together
about twenty years of good presidents to help to make
up for the disastrous choices that have been made so far.
And that's why I said, look, Trump two point zero.
To me, he gets an A plus for the first
(13:49):
year of Trump two point zero. I can't imagine it
being much better. But what Robert is hitting on, and
what many of you understand, is really the presidency comes
down to two things. Decision making. Are you making the
best decisions? That is zero point one? Are you making
the right decisions? Are you steering the ship in the
(14:09):
direction in which the country needs to go. Decision making
is the most important That's basically what we elect you
to do. Second part is communicating why the decisions that
you have made are helping to make the average Americans
life better. I think that Trump in his first year
has made the right decisions. He has made by and large,
(14:30):
nobody's perfect, but by and large he has made the
right decisions. Now he's got to communicate how those decisions
are making the life of the average American better. And
are the average Americans going to accept that argument by
the time we get to November, Because again, remember a
lot of times it takes four years for the economy's
(14:53):
change and for the trajectory to be felt. Two years
can be very tough, particularly when you look at what
Trump was taking over look. Gold and silver topped the
list of investments in twenty twenty five, each of them
up over sixty percent in value. If you made a
purchase earlier this year, putting gold into your IRA or
your four oh one K, you're extraordinarily happy with your results.
(15:17):
Even if you bought physical gold and are holding it
at home, you're smiling. Experts believe the values of gold
and silver are only going to continue to rise in
the new year. You know the reasons for the increases
in these values. Inflation one reason central banks around the
globe purchasing large quantities of precious metals is another. Birch
Gold Group wants you to own silver as much as
(15:39):
you might own gold.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
They know the.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
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grow in the future. That's why for every five thousand
dollars you purchase in gold between now and Monday the
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And before Christmas you will get a special benefit that's
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Speaker 4 (16:35):
Stories of Freedom, Stories of America, inspirational stories that you
unite us all each day.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Spend time with Clay and by find them.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
On the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back in Clay, Travis bock Sexton Show. Good news
out there. We're going to talk with Breonna Lyman. I'll
ask her about this. She's a writer at the Federalist.
We're going to talk to her at the bottom of
the hour. But HHS under Robert F. Kennedy Junior, announced
earlier today that they are putting into place rules that
(17:09):
will stop any medical treatments for trans surgeries for children
under the age of eighteen years old. Now again, This
is another basically common sense decision. You can't get a
tattoo in most cities and states across America. There are
regulations that would stop me. I've got a fifteen year old.
(17:30):
I wouldn't be able to take my fifteen year old
into a tattoo parlor and have him get tatted up.
How in the world, if we're saying, hey, young people
shouldn't be able to do that to their bodies, how
in the world are we allowing this so called gender
transition surgery to be occurring. I think this is another
win for common sense. We'll talk about that and more.
(17:50):
Also have loaded lines. We're going to keep taking your calls.
Appreciate all of you out there listening with us. But
I want to tell you, if you want to ensure
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(18:54):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We appreciate
all of you hanging out with us. First guest of
the day joining us now. I've been impressed at how
outspoken she has been on social media of late. You
certainly are seeing her a ton all over the airwaves,
(19:14):
whether it's Fox News, whether it's Fox Business, CNN as well.
Brianna Lyman joins us now, and she also writes at
The Federalist. My friend Sean Davis got a great company
that he helps to drive there. Brianna, I've been seeing
you way in a lot on this I would say
maybe echo or continuing lasting legacy associated with this era
(19:39):
of taking down historic statues and trying to condemn people
based on modern day standards for decisions that they made
in the past. And in particular, you've been tweeting a
lot about the state of Virginia pulling a Roberty Lee
statue out of the capital, where every state has the
ability to have two different statues. Strikes you about that
(20:01):
decision and what does it say about the culture of
America that we are still dealing with these continued reverberations
from the crazy era of twenty twenty.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Yeah, the point of these statutes are you're supposed to
honor people and who you cannot tell the story of
your state without mentioning. Robert E. Lee is one of
those people that you cannot tell a story about Virginia
without talking about Robert E.
Speaker 8 (20:28):
Lee.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
And he's not idolized because he was fighting for the Confederacy,
which wanted to preserve slavery. He's more so idolized for
what he did after the war. This man became the
face of reconciliation, and it's very easy for people in
twenty twenty five to sit back and say he should
have been executed, He should have been exiled. This man
was a trader. But unless you're in eighteen sixty and
(20:51):
you understand that it is not country first, it is
state first. That roberty Lee literally said, he doesn't believe
the Confederacy had to read to the Seed that he
thought it was a bad idea. But he said, if
my home state of Virginia seceeds, I will not take
up arms against my home state.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
Right.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
So that's the valor that we're talking about. And then
after the war ended, he convinced Confederates who wanted to
go into the bushes and cite guerrilla warfare. They were
ready to die to the very end, and he said, no,
go home, rebuild your families. It's okay to ask for
a pardon. He did it himself. It's okay to want
to be friends with your northern neighbors.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Again.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
We need peace and reconciliation. And it wasn't very easy
to do that. Nation was holding on by a thread,
and Roberty Lee helped convince a very disgruntled self that
it's time to make peace and that deserves remembrance.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
All of that is one hundred percent try. And this
is my Civil War history. Nerd, just geeking out here.
Everything that you said, is one hundred percent true. I've
made these arguments out there.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
One of the biggest threats that we face in this country,
a profound lack of historical literacy such that would you
just lay out, I would add, and you and I
were sending messages about this. Actually, there was a huge
radical Republican group that wanted to execute as many different
former Southerners as that fought against the North, as many
(22:14):
as they could, including Jefferson Davis, everybody else, and they
actually ended up not winning that battle, and as a
result the reconciliation of the nation which went far better
because leaders on the North and the South side said
let's lay down arms and let's actually come back together
as a nation. Very few people know that. Why do
(22:35):
you think that is?
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Yeah, I'm so happy you brought that up. So Thaddeus
Stevens was a radical Republican who kind of led that
charge to execute and exile these Confederates. But if you
go back even to eighteen sixty Lincoln's first inaugural dress,
he spoke of mystic cords of memory. What he was
trying to do is he was trying to remind both
those in the South and in the North that at
the end of the day, they were people whose ancestors
(22:58):
fought together in the Revolution, they were connected by blood
and memory, and they were all still Americans at the
end of the day and throughout the entire war, Lincoln's
entire goal was keep the Union together. He did not
want to exile or kill all of the Confederates because
he understood they are part of the Union. They just
need to kind of be coaxed back into it.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It's the same reason why Grant work to get such
generous surrender terms for Lee, because they understood that if
you want a union to actually be united, you can't
have half of them, and we're talking a massive half
be executed or exiled. It didn't work that way. And
again it's very easy for us in twenty twenty five
to say, oh, well, they should have been executed, they
(23:39):
should have been exiled, But you try holding a country together.
And the reason that this story right now is so important,
it's not just Roberty Lee, You and I said this.
They tore down statues of Jefferson. And if we are
making the standard that if you're not morally perfect, your
statue has to come down, then so does Jefferson's, so
does Washingtons because they own slaves. And that's the entire
(23:59):
part point of this entire woke movement. We don't get
to have heroes like Washington or Jefferson because they were
stained by slavery.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
It doesn't matter what else they did. And that's why
we have to make sure that we're being honest about
historical realities and about living in those times and what
those people did. Besides, you know, the moral stains of slavery.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's also important to apply it. I think you mentioned Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln.
Certainly the monuments those guys have been attacked for a
variety of reasons. Martin Luther King Junior used to do
an advice column, believe it or not, you may have
read this and said that anybody who was gay was
victim of a mental illness and that they should be
basically committed, essentially, And that was in the nineteen fifties. Well,
(24:44):
now that would be considered reprehensible by many parts of
the nation. Do we tear down his statue as well?
All of us, even the ones like you and me
who think we're pretty good at things, and everybody out
there listening, We're all going to be judged as lacking
by history because no one lives up to whatever the
standard is in the future in a perfect way.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
You actually, and I think Robert E.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Lee is such an interesting example of this because, as
you mentioned in Arlington, he was offered and spent all
night pacing trying to decide do I want to take
over command of the entire Union forces or do I
want to stay loyal to my state. A lot of
people don't understand this in today's day and age, but
your state used to be the equivalent of a country
(25:28):
for many people because in the eighteen sixties a lot
of people never traveled outside of their state borders because
it was so difficult comparatively to be able to travel.
And so we think of state residents now as being
something that is easy to change. And maybe your national
character matters more than the state from which you live.
But back in the day, your state was more important
(25:49):
to a large extent than your country was, because most
people never left their states.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Yeah, and it's you know part of that, you know,
Ordo Amorus, right, you rank things priority and to your point,
people one didn't travel more than fifteen miles outside of
their community in most cases. And two, you have to
remember that up until eighteen sixty five, thinks we're operating
pretty independent of the federal government.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Right.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
It wasn't until after the Civil War that we saw
the federal government's role kind of expand. And it's been expanding,
you know, it's expanding today as we speak. So states
really did function as that country ideology right there. And
Roberty Lee is someone who loved the Union, but he
loved his state war. And it's hard for people today,
(26:32):
you know, the same people who would go publicly bash
RFK Junior, their cousin, their brother, whoever, it is to
understand that back then people had hierarchies of priorities and
it was God, family, state, country, and it came in
that order. And that's what Lee did. So you have
to remember Lee in the times he was in versus
the time we are and now. And you brought up
(26:52):
a great point when Martin Luther King Junior. Look, this
is a man who fought for good things. He also
apparently was beating his wife, right, And at some point
there's going to be someone, a big group of people
who say wife beating is bad, which it is, and
they're going to say, well, we got to tear down
I'm okay, of course that would be ridiculous, but that's
what is going to happen with this slippery slope. And
I'm pretty aggrieved that the same people who are sitting
(27:14):
today convincing us that baby should be murdered in the womb,
that we should be transing young kids are suddenly the
arbiters of what is good and what's bad, and we're
going to listen to them.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Martin Luther King also look was assassinated in nineteen sixty
eight on that balcony of the Lorraine Hotel in Memphis.
As many people have seen in the hotel room when
he was assassinated, was a mistress.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Martin Luther King, as Robert F. Kennedy and John F.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Kennedy and a lot of people of that era in particular,
was not an upstanding family man in the way that
many would want men to be today and in the past.
And so again, if you go and look at the
past of many of our historic figures who are heroes
and change the course of the nation, they all have
had some form of sordid past or aspect of their
(28:04):
personality that would be found lacking, And I just think
it's interesting where we draw the line and where we don't.
How old are you, Brianna, I'm twenty seven, all right,
so you're twenty seven. I and Buck, if you were here,
we're both huge history people. I was a history major.
I read everything I can about history. When you are
(28:25):
around people your own age, how much historical illiteracy do
you see? And second part of that, how much of
that feels almost intentional? Because if you can tear down
the heroes of American history, what you really allow is
for everything to be wiped clean. Because when you're saying, hey,
if we can point to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson
(28:46):
and say they own slaves, therefore their moral legitimacy is questioned,
then it starts to allow you to question the Declaration
of Independence and the Constitution and argue that America was
founded on a huge hill of lies. And so we
can just wipe clean of everything that the country has
been founded on. That feels historically like the goal.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Yeah, the goal is to delegitimize the work of the founders.
In my generation in particular, you know, we've been indoctrinated
in public education and even higher education to a degree
where we're ashamed of our heritage and our ancestors. And
it's not always been like that. You know, you go
back to, you know, the seventies when Roberty Lee was
given his citizenship back and full that passed. I think
(29:29):
it was like four ten to three. It was some
massive margin because everybody Republican and Democrat understood that Roberty
Lee was significant for a few reasons, and it wasn't
so polarizing. You go to what was in nineteen ninety three,
the movie Gettysburg came out. They portray Lee as an
unrepentant racist. At the end scene, he's being cheered on
(29:51):
by his soldiers as he goes to surrender. Right, And
so there was a consensus really up until the past
twenty years that there are some figures who have a
definitely complex path where some things were bad, and we
don't condone that. But nonetheless it doesn't take away from
the reason that we look up to them or at
least recognize their impact on America.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I want to write another book, and my last book
just came out, But I think what you're getting at
I've been kind of grappling with in my own head.
It's do we define people by their ceilings or their floors?
You know, do and a lot of times. And I
just came from a funeral of my uncle this week,
and he didn't have much of a floor. He had
(30:36):
a great ceiling. But if you go and watch a eulogy,
it almost always is this is what he or she achieved.
Let's talk about the positives. We don't marinate in the
awfulness of the failures that we have in our life.
At the end of the life. We like to define
people based on their ceilings. It seems to me that
the Democrat Party in general focuses on the floor of
(30:58):
American history the things that that they want to say
are the worst parts of our historic figures. And it
seems in general like Republicans tend to focus on the ceiling.
Is that metaphor out of line or do you think
there's some truth to it?
Speaker 5 (31:12):
No, I think it's accurate. And let's think why does
the left focus on the worst of the worst. Because
the things that they care about, right, socialism, communism, that
it's fundamentally incompatible with small R republicanism. And if you
actually want to implement communism and socialism on a large scale.
You have to fundamentally reshape America. You have to get
rid of the Declaration, you have to get rid of
(31:33):
the Bill of Rights, you have to get rid of
the institutions and what underpins those institutions, which is Christianity,
to start fresh. So they have to focus on trying
to sour the sentiment of the American people by bashing
our heroes Jefferson Washington. Those are heroes, they should be revered,
and they are going to do this. I'm actually really
(31:54):
upset that we're coming into two fifty and I'm not
feeling as patriotic as I should be because there's so
many people that are trying to tear down the legacy
of our founders because they want to delegitimize that they
can replace.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Are you so you're talking about two fifty and I
think it is incredibly important because I wasn't around in
America two hundred. But for those of you out there
that remember nineteen seventy six, it seems like there was
a profound national spirit of optimism that came out of
that two hundredth Birthday celebration. Are you optimistic that next
year we can have something similar on America? To fifty
(32:28):
or do you think the Nicole Hannah Joneses of the
World and the sixteen nineteen project have been so successful
in tearing down American history that it's impossible to bring
everybody together.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I think the Overton window is shifting, and I'm glad
that President Trump is in office. I would like to
see some changes to be a board running the two
hundred and fifty celebrations because this is a time to
honor the founders. And I say this as someone who's
you know, I'm related too, Declaration of Independence definers. My
two sixth great grand uncles were militia met in the
battles of Lexington and Concord. My family thought this. They
(33:00):
live this, and honoring their legacy and everyone else's legacy
is so important to me because without their sacrifices, you
and I wouldn't be speaking today.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Uh, Brianna, how can people find you if they want
to see your content? And or maybe they got kids
and grandkids out there that are in your age bracket,
and maybe they're more likely to respond in a positive
way to somebody their own age than people their age.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Well, I'm trying to be a patriot maxing, So if
You could find me on Twitter at Brian alignment too
or Instagram Brianna dot Lineman.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Awesome, Hey, we appreciate the time. Have a good Christmas,
and thanks for fighting the good fight. I mean, I
saw you fighting history battles on social media, which I
almost never see anybody else doing, and I wanted to
make sure you've got a chance to talk with you.
Speaker 5 (33:44):
Thank you, Marry Christmas. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
That's Brianna Lyman. That's fantastic. I mean history nerding out.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I mean again, when I see somebody just defending he's
twenty seven, the historic legacy of Robert E. Lee, I'm like, Wow,
maybe there are some people out there are in their
twenties that actually do have knowledge about American history. Makes
me a little bit more optimistic. I've got a winner
for you tonight, Thursday Night football. Matthew Stafford, Sam Darnold,
the Rams going up against the Seahawks. Each of these
(34:13):
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(34:55):
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Speaker 2 (35:08):
The world has gone insane.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
We claim your sanity with Clay and find them on
the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton Show. We got
a lot of people who want a way in. I'll
take some of your calls. A lot of positivity coming
in from Brionna Lineman. I think Buck and I are
(35:31):
going to try to do in twenty twenty six as
a part of America. Two fifty more guests where we
can have sort of a history conversation with people out there,
so that you can share with your kids and your grandkids,
hopefully a little bit more historic knowledge. Because as a
college history major and a guy who thought about going
(35:53):
to get a PhD in history as one of my
favorite things to do. When they can control the way
we talk about history, I don't think a lot of
people have recognized how deletarious.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
That impact is and how.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Destructive the goal is to try to undermine the entire
history of this country. Because again, if you can redefine,
as Nicole Hanna Jones did and the New York Times did,
the founding of this country in sixteen nineteen, when the
first slaves got here, as opposed to in seventeen seventy
six when we declared independence from England, then you can
(36:31):
argue that the entire country is a pit of despair
and awfulness and rotten at its core.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And so therefore all of.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
American history deserves to be torn down, burned down and
replaced with something else. That is their goal. And two
point fifty in America gives us a great chance to
tell them no,
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