July 11, 2025 • 36 mins
In Hour 2 of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, the spotlight is on a wide-ranging and high-impact conversation with FDA Commissioner Dr. Marty McCarey, who outlines the bold vision behind the “Make America Healthy Again” (MAHA) initiative. This segment is packed with SEO-rich topics including healthcare reform, FDA transparency, COVID-19 vaccine policy, AI in medicine, and the Epstein investigation fallout.
Dr. McCarey discusses a transformative approach to U.S. healthcare, emphasizing root-cause research at the NIH, banning harmful food additives, and accelerating drug approvals. He highlights the FDA’s renewed focus on curing chronic diseases like type 1 diabetes, Alzheimer’s, and ALS, and the development of a universal flu vaccine. He also champions AI-driven efficiency in drug review processes and public access to FDA decision letters, aiming to eliminate bureaucratic delays and improve transparency.
The conversation revisits the COVID-19 vaccine debate, with McCarey noting that 85% of healthcare workers declined the latest booster, reinforcing the FDA’s stance on requiring clinical trials for young, healthy individuals before recommending further shots. He stresses a return to gold-standard science and common-sense public health policy.
The hour also dives into the internal turmoil surrounding the Epstein investigation, with reports of a rift between Deputy FBI Director Dan Bonino and Attorney General Pam Bondi. The hosts analyze the political implications of this conflict, including potential resignations and how it could derail the broader Trump administration agenda. The segment explores the media fallout, public perception, and the strategic decisions facing President Trump amid growing pressure for accountability.
Make sure you never miss a second of the show by subscribing to the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton show podcast wherever you get your podcasts! ihr.fm/3InlkL8
For the latest updates from Clay & Buck, visit our website https://www.clayandbuck.com/
Connect with Clay Travis and Buck Sexton:
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Second hour of playing Buck kicks off. Now we are
joined by doctor Marty McCarey. He is the Commissioner of
the Food and Drug Administration. Doctor McCarey, we appreciate you, sar.
We remember your truth teller in the dark days of
COVID madness, and now you are at the FDA and
(00:21):
part of the MAHA approach to America make America healthy again.
I saw your op ed in the Washington Post on
getting drugs approved much more quickly and efficiently.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That should be that would be helpful.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But let's just start with this is what is the
top of your agenda for MAHA. How are we going
to make America healthy again? Now that that is your portfolio, well.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Good to be with you guys. You know, we are
changing the entire approach to healthcare in the United States
under Secretary Kennedy. It's not just chemotherapy and insulin and ozepic.
We're now having recent search on root causes at the NIH.
We're investing in the food side of the FDA. People
(01:06):
forget that the fn FDA stands for food, not federal,
and so we are focused on healthy food for kids.
We've got tremendous traction with the petroleum based food die ban,
We're going a step further looking at all the chemicals
and the food supply that are banned in other countries.
We are focused on the drug side and device side,
(01:28):
more cures for the American people. We'd love to see
a cure for certain kinds of cancer, stage four cancer,
drugs that melt away cancer. We want to see a
cure for type one diabetes, for Alzheimer's, we want to
see meaningful treatments for als. And we want to see
a universal flu shot so we don't have to play
(01:50):
a guessing game each year. And one of my personal
missions is to make sure that our veterans have a
rapid decision on treatments for PTSD.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I really appreciate you coming on with us and the
fact doctor McCarey, and I always want to go back
and re emphasize this that you were one of the
truth tellers during COVID and I'm curious now as we
are working through the MAHA movement, you have RFK Junior,
and you have you and doctor Bodicharia, and I'm sure
there's many many more people that we don't even know
(02:21):
the names of. Do you feel in many ways, like
all of the slings and arrows that you took and
that many of your colleagues took have been vindicated in
what you said, and feel as if, hey, this is
an opportunity to rectify a lot of the scientific wrongs
on a big picture that came from somebody like doctor
(02:42):
Fauci lecturing everyone and saying I am the science. Don't
challenge science. It has to feel in some way vindicating
to be in the position that you are in now.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, I think this is a time for us to
demonstrate humility, the same humility we called for. When you
don't know something as a doctor, you just need to
say we don't know, or we think this might be
the case. The absolutism that we saw during COVID, which
was not based on science, but it was under the
guise of listening to the experts and don't question us,
(03:16):
it did a lot of damage. I mean, ignoring natural immunity,
putting masks on toddlers for three years, insisting schools stay
shut for a year and a half. Somehow this became
partisan and it's really an ugly chapter. So we are
trying to demonstrate transparency and humility throughout our health agencies
(03:37):
and as role models. And I think you know, we're
making a lot of progress in that way. We for example,
put out a strong warning on myocarditis with the COVID vaccines.
We're not approving covid vaccines for healthy children without a
clinical trial first. We're getting back to gold standard science
and we're using common sense.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Doctor McCarey.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
What are some of the ways that we can see
improvements in the drug I mean, this is what you
wrote about in the Washington Post editorial right getting faster
approval because one thing I know right now from the
look people think pharma and a lot and and a
lot of people in the right in particular get you
(04:21):
know there they they bristle a little bit, But Farma
does make things like statins which save a lot of lives.
Pharma has incredible drugs that are helping with and create
with with rare types of cancer. We want we want
there to be breakthroughs, We want there to be cures.
What are ways we can get to those cures faster?
And is artificial intelligence something that you see helping just
(04:46):
go through all the data and get to cures faster
for the diseases that we we want to see left
in the past.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Absolutely and look as a doctor at Johns Hopkins for
most of my I saw how drugs would cure people,
and people got terrible diagnoses, and they would ask, is
there anything promising out there? I think we have to
ask a big question that really hasn't been asked before,
and that is why does it take over ten years
(05:15):
for a new drug to come to market? We have
got to cut the red tape and these unnecessary delays,
all of the bureaucratic processes, and just get back to
our job of making a prompt decision on safety and efficacy.
And you know, if there's a drug where there's no
(05:38):
hope or there's a small population affected, I believe in
both the spirit and the letter of right to try
that the President has put out there.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
How much of what you deal with is fixable from
a cultural perspective, And let me build on that a
little bit, make the question a little bit maybe more understandable.
One of the things we worry about. I think if
you're out there and you're a parent like I am
and like Buck is, is so much guidance is constantly shifting.
(06:11):
And if Trump is in office right now, we're very
thankful that you're the FDA commissioner. But let's say that
Kamala Harris god Forbid, had won, or that she wins
in twenty twenty nine, and we get a brand new
team of leadership at many of these agencies. If the
culture underneath is rotten, then it becomes very difficult to fix.
Can you fix the culture of the FDA? How would
(06:33):
you assess, based on your time there so far, the
culture actually is.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I think it is a culture that can be influenced.
You know, I spend essentially every day on campus at
the FDA. It's a beautiful campus. I meet with the
reviewers and the scientists and the inspectors, and the folks
that are working on childhood team vaping reduction, and all
of the people. You know. The FDA right now aged
(07:00):
twenty percent of the US economy. I'm on the ground,
and I think when you're insulated as a leader, you
can become a villain. But when you're on the ground
and people see that, hey, I'm a cancer surgeon from
Johns Hopkins, and I've got scientific credentials. I've published over
three hundred scientific peer review studies. All of a sudden,
(07:22):
now you're a scientific colleague, and you're not some you know, caricature.
And so I've been on the ground. The culture at
the FDA is strong and getting stronger. The trains are
running on time, and so the FDA is going to
continue to be strong.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
What are some of the areas where you're hoping we
could see major breakthroughs? I mean broadly speaking, right, not
not asking about any particular thing that's you know, in
trials or but you know, people are hearing about christper
technology obviously I brought up AI and I do know
there's some people doctor Mcerrey, in the biotechnology space who
(07:58):
think that we could be on the precipice of a
goal of and age of discoveries that will just help
you know, you said that they're changing the approach to
healthcare overall. Right, that's part of the mission. Where are
some of the likely discoveries in the near future, I
mean over the next four years. Do you think that
we could see some pretty amazing things happen that either
(08:19):
extend lives, save lives, improve lives thanks to technology and
research that's going on right now.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I do. I do. And let me tell you why, Clay,
Because we're going to try to do everything possible during
my time at the FDA to cut the unnecessary delays,
the waiting around, the idle time, the time that drug
developers and inventors say where they're just doing guest work
because they can't talk to anyone at the FDA to
(08:48):
find out what they want in the application. We just
announced yesterday that all of our decision letters are going
to be public information, so companies are not going to
have to do guesswork to figure out how the FDA
thinks or what they want in an application. We're increasing
communications so a company can call us and ask a
(09:09):
question instead of doing guest work for a year. And
we have now a powerful AI tool that we just
launched across the FDA all of the centers where reviewers
have incredible computational power now to organize applications and to
summarize these giant, gnarly one hundred thousand page applications. We're
(09:32):
getting away from paper. We're doing a lot to cut
the waste.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What should people know, Doctor McCarey, and he's the head
of the FDA, came on the show for years before
he was the head of the FDA. What is the
absolute latest on the COVID shot. I know there's been
I think you came on right after the decision was
made not to recommend it necessarily for young people that
(09:56):
is very young, where are we now.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Even know what booster people are on.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But for people out there who have kids, I know
there's a lot of concern about the number of shots
that they're getting, a lot of examination of what is necessary,
what is not.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What would you say parents should know about that?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, eighty five percent of healthcare workers said no to
the last COVID booster last fall, and that should tell
you something. You know, maybe there's a high risk group
where it makes sense. We're going to tell folks to
talk to their doctor. The government is not your doctor.
But are we going to just blindly rubber stamp COVID
boosters for young, healthy teenagers every year in perpetuity, such
(10:38):
that a ten year old girl today is going to
get sixty more COVID shots once every year for the
rest of our lifetime. No, we're not going to do
that without some clinical trials supporting that theory. So we're
getting back to gold standard science and I think people
appreciate it. We've outlined our whole framework for COVID vaccines
(10:58):
in the New England Journal of Men Medison. And we're
being very transparent about it. It's not we're not doing
deals with companies. We're being very public and transparent about everything.
And I think if we can do this everything well,
if we can cut the red tape, be transparent, show humility,
we can see cures for type one diabetes and neurodegenerative disorders,
(11:20):
and we can get to a universal flu shot, for example,
which is something in the works in early development, so
we don't have to guess every year what the strain
is going to be.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Dodger McCarey, we appreciate the time, and we appreciate all
the work that you're doing. Have a fantastic weekend and
we'll have you on again soon. Don't hesitate to reach
out anytime. We can help get the message out that
you think is important.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Great. Good to be with you, guys, Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
For sure, he's fantastic. I'm excited that he's in the
position that he is in. We come back. We'll take
some of your calls. More reaction pouring in after the
Axio story relating to the Epstein case, we'll dive into
that and more. I want to tell you's choosing. We're
just talking with the head of the FDA. Choosing the
healthcare coverage and which plan is right for you and
your family one of the most challenging decisions out there,
(12:09):
especially if you're self employed, on something as important as
your healthcare insurance. You want to feel good about the
decision you make. Why settle for a government plan like
the Affordable Care Act when there's better options out there.
That's called Ease for Everyone. It offers affordable healthcare for
as low as two hundred and sixty two bucks a month.
You keep your doctor, never pay a deductible, access over
(12:30):
four hundred prescription drugs for free. Go online to their
website see which plan is right for you and your family.
Ease for Everyone was developed by knowledge and forward thinking
people out there in my hometown of Nashville. Visit Ease
for Everyone dot com slash clay to join today. That's
Ease for Everyone dot Com.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Slash Clay stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories
that you unite us all. Spend time with Clay and
find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton show.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Okay, our thanks to doctor Martin McCarey. Buck.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I'm just gonna tell you this is going to be
a fascinating next hour and a half or so. We've
got Nicole Parker on at the top of our three,
the former FBI agent. I think we are going to
be deluge now. I'm just making the prediction with two different,
completely opposite positions.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
One is going to be all we want to.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Hear is about the Epstein case and the continued fallout
over Pambondi, Dan Bongino Cash till that's all we need
to talk about. You guys are in the tank. They've
gotten to you. You're bought off. If you don't talk
about it, that's gonna be email and talk back one.
Talk back two is gonna be I don't know why
(14:00):
you guys are talking about this at all, and I'm
just telling you that is going to be the duality.
You either think the Epstein story right now is the
biggest story in the entire country and everybody should be
talking about it all the time, or you think that
the Epstein story is the most overplayed, uninteresting, least important
(14:20):
story that exists and there's almost no one in the middle,
So we are going to allow you guys to just
fire away. And if you think that this story doesn't
matter and we are morons for discussing it, fire away
will read some of that. And if you think that
we are owned and that we've been bought off, and
that if we're not talking about it all the time,
(14:42):
and if we're not beating the drum and if we're
not baging a tab, you can send those two. So
I am predicting that there will be no one who's
in the middle, And they're like, I kind of think
this is interesting, but I don't really care that much.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There's not going to be anybody.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
You either hate every aspect of this story being covered
in a significant fashion and think it's totally overl and
there are many other things more significant to talk about,
or you think it's the only story that matters in
America right now. And I don't know what the breakdown
would be percentage wise in this audience, but that is
where we are. So we were just talking with doctor
(15:14):
Marty McCarey. Let me lay this out, buck and then
we'll take some talkbacks and everything else when we come back.
Here is where I think we are, and inevitably everybody's
gonna get furious about that. Are we talking, McCarry, We're
talking more on Epstein stuff. We have a couple of
thoughts on Okay, you want to a couple of well,
I'm just like I'm the Epstein thing all people are
(15:36):
responding to right now.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I don't know if it's a show phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Do you want do you want more Epstein coverage on
the show, or do you want any story? I am
going to go. I am going to put my thumb
on the scale of all Epstein rest of the show.
That's my But I want to hear what you have
to say about doctor Marty McCarey, because I do think
I'm just I'm sounding a little too you know too.
(16:03):
Oh everything is fine over here, not about the Epstein thing,
just to be clear, but just you know, life is okay,
Everything's gonna be all right. I think it's it's fascinating.
We don't talk about AI a lot on the show.
And one of the reasons that I wanted to bring
up doctor McCarey and wanted everyone to hear about this
is that the stuff that's going on right now with
Ai is incredible. And the more that I read about
(16:26):
and use AI just to see what it's capable of,
the more this is a little bit like the Internet
circa nineteen ninety six in terms of the transformation of
technology and with it our lives. That is right on
the precipice of occurring in a whole range of ways. Yes,
autonomous vehicles, yes, you know, being able to research and
(16:50):
find things, and the legal profession is going to be
so affected and all these. But if you can use
hyper intelligence effectively to do things like cure type one diabetes,
to he said, neurodegenitive disorders, things like Alzheimer's. I mean
taking supercomputers now and having them be able to go
(17:11):
through every iteration and permutation of all of the data
ever in all of the trials on the This stuff
is going to be happening, and it is going to
be incredible. I think the results that we're able to see.
Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'm not saying it's gonna
cure everything and we're not all going to live to
be you know, I don't want to live to be
(17:31):
five hundred, but you know, I do think that you're
going to see some pretty amazing stuff soon soon.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Okay, so we're gonna be super optimistic here. I agree.
I sign on to that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I actually think one of the most important things is
going to be figuring out how your body individually responds
to treatment, to.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Health and what you should eat like everybody.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
The idea that everybody has the exact same genotype, I
think is the phrase is just wrong. Everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
One aspect of being an adult is having your affairs
in order, whether you're twenty one or ninety one. Part
of that includes having a will or trust. When that
moment in time comes, and it comes for all of us,
your family can better understand your wishes if you do
this ahead of time, and you do it the right way.
Without a will, probate is opened and it can get
very expensive, time consuming, things can get delayed, and a
(18:21):
big percentage of your network can go to taxes instead
of your family. The good news is creating a will
has been made easier than ever and more affordable than
ever thanks to a website called Trust and Will dot Com.
On that website, you can create your own will or trust.
Trust and Will dot Com makes the whole process simple, affordable,
and the result gives you peace of mind. Just put
this on your to do list and check it off
(18:43):
as soon as you can. You need to get it done.
If you haven't, go to Trustdanwill dot com. They're experts
in creating personalized trust and Wills. Go to Trust and
Will dot com.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Today.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. That's all right, it's
a close enough. We've got much to dive into here.
I want to give you an update on this situation.
I just want to say, just so you know. Today
I wanted to talk MAHA Make America Healthy Again. We
had doctor McCarey on I. We're gonna, well, Nicole Parker's
gonna talk to us about the FBI situation too, former
(19:14):
FBI agent. But we were going to talk about the
ice raid in Camarillo, California and the federal judge A
Woosie Mensa frim good luck with that one. Yeah, who
has said that you basically can't arrest any illegals anymore
because she says so, like there are other stories I
(19:35):
do want to talk about in New York. Do you
guys know in New York you paid one hundred million
dollars for bridge lights that never got used and never
even got taken out of the warehouse. This is the
most classic New York thing ever the State of New
York under Cuomo.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
He wanted pretty of bridges. He wanted lights for the bridges.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
One hundred million dollars clay of light bulbs. They spent
two million dollars housing the light bulbs, were housing them
and never used them. And this is just how New
York uses the you know, the tax money that goes
People wonder why why does New York have over double
(20:15):
the budget of Florida.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
With less people because of crap like this.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So we could get into a lot of people out
there saying that sounds like my household. Well maybe not,
maybe not one hundred million, but there's probably some people
out there looking around saying it seems like we spent
a lot of money on things that never actually end
up being used, and just saying your your dad, your dad,
like that happens quite a lot. I I'm only a
(20:41):
couple of years into this marriage thing, but I do
not question household expenses around here.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I've just saying, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I will say book one of the one of the
healthiest things I've learned is I don't really know what
we spend on the household, and I feel like in
many ways that's that's probably better for me. I alwayso
think it's a bait. When was the last time you
cooked something? He said, I don't cook. I don't, I
mean not using a microwave. Yeah, I've never I don't.
I don't know that I have cooked anything not using
(21:07):
a microwave in.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Twenty years. A good wow. Okay, I cook all the time,
all right.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I'm impressed. I mean I'm impressed at your at your
cooking ability. You know, I was gonna make when Clay's
over here, I was gonna make him eggs. I make
fantastic eggs. But he's like on a smoothie diet. So
I was like, okay, we'll just smoothies these days, you know.
I I gotta try to I gotta try to cut
down the calory as much as I can. But no,
I use the I make myself sandwiches. I use the toaster. Well,
(21:36):
I'm really great with the toaster, and I'm pretty skilled
with our microwave. Kind of, if I can't do it
in one of those two places, then I eat it
out at some sort of restaurant or But you know. Look,
I eat like bananas, like apples, oranges, pre made meals
like I'm not. There's not a lot of bells and
whistles here. Okay, okay, bells wait wait wait yeah, okay.
(21:59):
So now we got the other thing and did the
other thing here with a kind of turn it into
a big story here. Jorian Kelly, our friend who's on
the show regularly, just tweeted. Sources confirm the blow up
meeting between Bongino and Pam Bondi is very real. This
has been brewing for four months, came to a head
at the White House on Wednesday. Bongino hasn't gone back
(22:21):
to the FBI office since that meeting. Most of the
frustration at the FBI, this is Julie Kelly relates to
Bondi's handling of Epstein disclosures and disputes between FBI and
Bondi about how to proceed. And here's the kicker, this
is again Julie Kelly. Bongino appears ready to resign eminently
(22:45):
if Bondi is not removed from office. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
So this is now President Trump's decision. He may have
to decide, do I want to key my deputy FBI
Director Dan Bongino or my Attorney General Pam Bondi, and
(23:07):
one or the other is saying, hey, if this guy
stays or this gal stays, I'm out. One thing that
can turn into a really big story. And this is
a fallout from Epstein and the way this investigation has
been handled. One thing you can't do is give an
ultimatum and then walk it back. So well, you can
pull a Costanza, you can pull the George because Mark,
(23:28):
but if you want to keep your if you want
to keep your credibility right, so in your path it
really is you can't say it's him or you know,
it's her or me, or him or me, and then
it's neither, and you're like, okay, that's that's not let's
not just pretend that ultimatum didn't happen. Some of you
may have had this in your job experiences before. Right,
(23:49):
you may have said, you know, I'm working with him, Uh,
it's gonna be me or him or me and her whatever. Yeah,
I will tell you once in my life at a
job at age, not radio, I will say that, not
a radio job. Once in my life I did have
to have a conversation where I was like, it's either
(24:09):
it's either him or me, and I was told, uh,
it will be him, but not for six months. And
I was like, okay, I'm out. So I actually it's
an ultimatum that I've had to give myself. So I've
been there by the way. Sometimes it's the right I've made.
I don't regret it at all. It's the right move.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And they didn't en up fire. They did end up
firing the guy.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
But they didn't fire him fast enough. So I say
that I'm out. A situation before, which is somewhat similar
where you're interviewing for jobs and you're like, hey, this job,
this is twenty years ago, this job offered me X.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Can you match X.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
They're like okay, we'll think about it, and then they
come back and they're like nope.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Then you're kind of like, okay, well either I can.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
They're kind of calling your bluff right like, so you
got to be careful sometimes you're negotiating, because you can
end up negotiating yourself. But did you have that other
offer or were you just oh yeah, okay totally And
they had offered more money. But it was eye opening
and important because if somebody can't match the offer that
somebody else has made for your services.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It may be that they just don't value you that highly.
Sometimes it's the.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Company's not doing well enough, and maybe you can look
at that and look, but if you are set to
make more money at another job and you come back
and you're like, hey, this is the offer I got,
Can you match it? Can you get close? And they
say no, kind of makes your decision easy. And so
that's not the same scenario if he has to go
or she has to go, or I'm leaving. Uh, but
it is a tough spot. And I have managed and
(25:41):
as a business I've had situations where people have said
to me, Hey, if this guy stays employed, then I'm leaving.
It's got to be one or the other of us.
And that's now it appears where Trump may be. Has
that ever been a tough call for you to make
or have you always known you can go buddy, or
oh no, don't worry, the other guy's going.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
You know what I'm saying. Has it ever been a
close call or has it been a clear call? Every time?
It's happened several times.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Honestly, as a manager, I feel like in media it
happens more for me.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I was gonna say, media people are hissy, you know,
we get.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
There's a lot of like petty fights that happened in
via lots of egos and lots of not gonna stun you, narcissism,
meglomania sometimes like this is not a media universe, is
not necessarily a well conditioned, normal job universe. I mean,
I will say, in that other job, by the way,
it was, it was it was me or my boss
(26:29):
all the time. And that's a that's a bold play
to go like, hey, do you have to yeah, and
and they were like no, no, no, you're right, and
and but it will happen, but it won't happen for
a while. And I said not good enough and I left.
So yeah, that's a that's a thing that you got
to be. By the way, if that goes against you,
you definitely can't stay because if you come for the
boss or your immediate boss, your immediate supervisor, and uh,
(26:51):
and that doesn't go you do not you do not
want that person writing your performance reviews going forward, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, So let's go into this. You are President Trump.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
President Trump is headed to Texas right now, to deal
with real serious stuff, that is the flood and the aftermath.
And the president doesn't get very many light things on
his desk, right, It's like serious things, all, Hey, what
are we gonna do with Russia Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
What are we gonna do with Israel?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Iran?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
What are we gonna do? A dilemmas? What are we
gonna do.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
With the ice agents being shot at potentially in California.
I would imagine that one of the things about being
president is nobody ever comes in and just says, hey,
I only have good news for you, sir. Hey, it's hey,
here's just a I've got a ton of rainbows that
just alighted out. Let's just all have fun. It's always
there's a new issue. How does Trump handle this? Because
(27:46):
he may well feel that the Epstein mess that he
has nothing to do with it, and that this predated him,
and that other people have made messes of the Epstein investigation,
and he is just stepping into essentially a huge minefield.
But if your top FBI people and your top attorney
(28:06):
general and your attorney general are going head to head,
now this's a big deal. The FBI provides the evidence
and the investigations that allow the Department of Justice to
prosecute The Attorney General is the head of the Department
of Justice. If they aren't getting along, then their ability
to execute the agenda that you believe is important for
the American people is not going to work. Well. Leave
(28:28):
aside the Epstein investigation for a second. This is a
major interpersonal conflict. And so if he is truly being
asked to choose one or the other, I don't know
what he does. I don't know what you guys would
do if you are the managers right now. And I
think it comes down to this is how I would
assess it. And I'm curious as a manager who's had
(28:49):
to make a decision like this many times before. Sometimes
you can go purely personal relationships. But to me, what
I would look at and say, Okay, who is better
at their job? Who is more indispensable to me right
now at their job?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
If I have to.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Choose between the two, I'm going to take the person
who is the best at his or her job and
tell the other person they have to go now. I'd
prefer never to have to make that decision. So I
think that's a question for Trump is where does this
rank in the larger universe for him, how does he
(29:25):
assess all of this? And by the way, remember either
way this is going to create a bigger mess around
the Epstein because if you fire your attorney general over it,
a lot of people are going to say, Okay, now
we can finally get all these files.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Pam BONDI was in on the cover up.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
If your FBI guy walks out, a lot of people
are going to say, wow, he's standing on principle there
is a cover up.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And he won't countenance it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
And this threatens I'm just gonna be honest with you,
This threatens to turn into the kind of political in
fighting that all of the media in DC that hates
Trump is going to love because it delegitimizes his ability
to get everything's done. You've talked about this before, and
I think it's well said, Buck. The process is the punishment.
(30:15):
As soon as this was all about Russia collusion, it
wasn't that it was true.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
It was that it was so.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Time consuming that it distracted from Trump's ability to execute
other parts of his agenda. My concern now with the
Epstein mess, Look, do we want pedophiles in prison? Yes,
like just like we want cancer salt like this is
not no one who's arguing on the Epstein cases like,
oh we want people who committed crimes against children not
to be punished. Leave that aside. It's about the larger
(30:43):
context of the Trump agenda. How much does Epstein the
case matter relative to everything else. This is where it
could start to derail other things that are otherwise I
think more important forward thinking as opposed to looking backwards.
We got one of our VIPs here, just it. We're
gonna I mean, we're getting inundated, just so you know,
in real time, with with emails from VIPs, with phone calls,
(31:05):
with talkbacks, and they're pretty much all on this. So
I this is I want to talk immigration policy, and
I'm a parent. I'm getting I'm getting voted down on that.
I mean, here, this is from one of our VIPs.
This has been Epstein. This has been a complete PR nightmare.
Pam Bondy, along with Cash and Dan should have done
a presser laying out explaining everything. By the way, I
said that on the first day, I said that the
(31:27):
memo was complete. That was idiocy, Okay, putting out that
memo on a Sunday from a PR I'm not even
talking cover upper conspiracy. I'm just you don't put out
a memo on a Sunday that is just like yeah,
nothing to see like that was a disaster.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That was dumb.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
But okay, here a VIP says, Unfortunately, now we're at
a point. I believe if Pam is not fired, then
Dan or Cash will resign. A full accounting is required.
Get this behind us. There are more important issues out there,
like full deportation. Uh you know co sign on that.
I you know that's that's about saving the entire country.
Uh for you know, keeping it as America. Clay, Yeah,
(32:04):
I think I think one of them is gonna one
of them is gonna go one way or another. I
think that much is clear. Something's got to give here,
someone's gotta go. I don't know who it's gonna be,
but there's problems. This is a problem. Look, I think
I always look at this from the assessment of who
has created the biggest error, and we don't know obviously
(32:24):
everything to me, Pam BONDI giving those influencers binders and
saying hey, this is a part of the Epstein files,
and then there was nothing in them, and it was
a huge like how do you make that decision right? Ultimately,
all high end jobs are about decision making. There is
(32:45):
no if I were Attorney general, God forbid, there's no
way I'm bringing in a bunch of influencers and giving
them I.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Think you'd be I think you'd be a pretty good AG.
I you know I would.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
I wouldn't sell yourself short there. But look at the
humility from Clay all of a sudden, I think you'd
be pretty good AG. I'm not getting any ideas here,
by the way, we need you hear, but I'm just
saying I think I would just have looked at the
optics on that, and I would have said, this is
insanely dumb. What are we putting in these binders? Why
(33:17):
are we parading around people with Epstein file binders that
have nothing in them? Like this is basic blocking, tackling stuff,
understanding how the media works, how stories work, and that
just is such a mess that to me is the
biggest unforced error. And then speaking inarticulately about what's on
(33:40):
your desk and what is not. To me, it is
a mess, and it is a self inflicted wound that
is I think frankly festering and threatens to overwhelm other
aspects of the forward looking agenda right now in the meantime, Look,
there's an instinct out there you want to protect your family.
(34:01):
That's why we have tons of objects all throughout the
house provided by Saber. Whether it's extra door locks, whether
it is alarms, whether it is the pepper projectile launcher
we legitimately pepper spray we have. I think this is true.
Every object that saberradio dot Com offers, we've got them all,
(34:21):
and it is great. It's the family owned business fifty years.
Products are reliable and trusted to help make you and
your family safe. All non lethal, just designed to be
the right tools to help protect you. Pepper pray, pepper
gel projectile launcher shaped like a pistol or rifle, but
it doesn't have protects you, doesn't have lethal consequences. So
(34:45):
if you've got people running around in your neighborhood, maybe
it's kids, maybe it's friends, people all around your neighborhood
setting off alarms. It's just happened in my house. Fourteen
year old sneaking in and out of the house. Happens
you got teenagers. Go online to saberradio dot com make
good decisions right now. You can say fifteen percent sab
R radio dot com. You can also call eight four
(35:07):
four eight two four Safe again. Just check it out
saberradio dot com. That's saberradio dot com. Eight four four
eight two four.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
Safe Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that
you unite us all each day, spend time with Clay
and buy find them on the free iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis buck Sexton Show, Appreciate all
of you for hanging out with us. Mark in o'calla says,
this is just a distraction.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Listen, epstein Case.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
I think everybody in alve should go to jail. I
think there should be dug to the furthest limits and
they all go down. But I think this is being
used to distracted to the fact that not one politician
who has violated RICO law selling out this country, not
one politician who created a fake Russia collusion hopes other
January sixth thing has been charged and guited, subpoened nothing.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Okay, that's true.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
But when the reports are out there from our friend
Julie Kelly, which I believe to be accurate that the
FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino has said it's either me
or Attorney General Pombondi. That's not a manufactured story. It's
real now. It's a result of all of the chaos
surrounding the Epsteine investigation, but it's significant. We'll talk about
(36:28):
that more. We're joined by Nicole Parker, who is an
FBI agent. She'll be off the top of the next segment.
We'll find out what she thinks about how all this
is playing out, who she would pick if she were
sitting at that desk all that more final hour of
the week.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Next
Second hour of playing Buck kicks off. Now we are
joined by doctor Marty McCarey. He is the Commissioner of
the Food and Drug Administration. Doctor McCarey, we appreciate you, sar.
We remember your truth teller in the dark days of
COVID madness, and now you are at the FDA and
(00:21):
part of the MAHA approach to America make America healthy again.
I saw your op ed in the Washington Post on
getting drugs approved much more quickly and efficiently.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That should be that would be helpful.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But let's just start with this is what is the
top of your agenda for MAHA. How are we going
to make America healthy again? Now that that is your portfolio, well.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Good to be with you guys. You know, we are
changing the entire approach to healthcare in the United States
under Secretary Kennedy. It's not just chemotherapy and insulin and ozepic.
We're now having recent search on root causes at the NIH.
We're investing in the food side of the FDA. People
(01:06):
forget that the fn FDA stands for food, not federal,
and so we are focused on healthy food for kids.
We've got tremendous traction with the petroleum based food die ban,
We're going a step further looking at all the chemicals
and the food supply that are banned in other countries.
We are focused on the drug side and device side,
(01:28):
more cures for the American people. We'd love to see
a cure for certain kinds of cancer, stage four cancer,
drugs that melt away cancer. We want to see a
cure for type one diabetes, for Alzheimer's, we want to
see meaningful treatments for als. And we want to see
a universal flu shot so we don't have to play
(01:50):
a guessing game each year. And one of my personal
missions is to make sure that our veterans have a
rapid decision on treatments for PTSD.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I really appreciate you coming on with us and the
fact doctor McCarey, and I always want to go back
and re emphasize this that you were one of the
truth tellers during COVID and I'm curious now as we
are working through the MAHA movement, you have RFK Junior,
and you have you and doctor Bodicharia, and I'm sure
there's many many more people that we don't even know
(02:21):
the names of. Do you feel in many ways, like
all of the slings and arrows that you took and
that many of your colleagues took have been vindicated in
what you said, and feel as if, hey, this is
an opportunity to rectify a lot of the scientific wrongs
on a big picture that came from somebody like doctor
(02:42):
Fauci lecturing everyone and saying I am the science. Don't
challenge science. It has to feel in some way vindicating
to be in the position that you are in now.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, I think this is a time for us to
demonstrate humility, the same humility we called for. When you
don't know something as a doctor, you just need to
say we don't know, or we think this might be
the case. The absolutism that we saw during COVID, which
was not based on science, but it was under the
guise of listening to the experts and don't question us,
(03:16):
it did a lot of damage. I mean, ignoring natural immunity,
putting masks on toddlers for three years, insisting schools stay
shut for a year and a half. Somehow this became
partisan and it's really an ugly chapter. So we are
trying to demonstrate transparency and humility throughout our health agencies
(03:37):
and as role models. And I think you know, we're
making a lot of progress in that way. We for example,
put out a strong warning on myocarditis with the COVID vaccines.
We're not approving covid vaccines for healthy children without a
clinical trial first. We're getting back to gold standard science
and we're using common sense.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Doctor McCarey.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
What are some of the ways that we can see
improvements in the drug I mean, this is what you
wrote about in the Washington Post editorial right getting faster
approval because one thing I know right now from the
look people think pharma and a lot and and a
lot of people in the right in particular get you
(04:21):
know there they they bristle a little bit, But Farma
does make things like statins which save a lot of lives.
Pharma has incredible drugs that are helping with and create
with with rare types of cancer. We want we want
there to be breakthroughs, We want there to be cures.
What are ways we can get to those cures faster?
And is artificial intelligence something that you see helping just
(04:46):
go through all the data and get to cures faster
for the diseases that we we want to see left
in the past.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Absolutely and look as a doctor at Johns Hopkins for
most of my I saw how drugs would cure people,
and people got terrible diagnoses, and they would ask, is
there anything promising out there? I think we have to
ask a big question that really hasn't been asked before,
and that is why does it take over ten years
(05:15):
for a new drug to come to market? We have
got to cut the red tape and these unnecessary delays,
all of the bureaucratic processes, and just get back to
our job of making a prompt decision on safety and efficacy.
And you know, if there's a drug where there's no
(05:38):
hope or there's a small population affected, I believe in
both the spirit and the letter of right to try
that the President has put out there.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
How much of what you deal with is fixable from
a cultural perspective, And let me build on that a
little bit, make the question a little bit maybe more understandable.
One of the things we worry about. I think if
you're out there and you're a parent like I am
and like Buck is, is so much guidance is constantly shifting.
(06:11):
And if Trump is in office right now, we're very
thankful that you're the FDA commissioner. But let's say that
Kamala Harris god Forbid, had won, or that she wins
in twenty twenty nine, and we get a brand new
team of leadership at many of these agencies. If the
culture underneath is rotten, then it becomes very difficult to fix.
Can you fix the culture of the FDA? How would
(06:33):
you assess, based on your time there so far, the
culture actually is.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I think it is a culture that can be influenced.
You know, I spend essentially every day on campus at
the FDA. It's a beautiful campus. I meet with the
reviewers and the scientists and the inspectors, and the folks
that are working on childhood team vaping reduction, and all
of the people. You know. The FDA right now aged
(07:00):
twenty percent of the US economy. I'm on the ground,
and I think when you're insulated as a leader, you
can become a villain. But when you're on the ground
and people see that, hey, I'm a cancer surgeon from
Johns Hopkins, and I've got scientific credentials. I've published over
three hundred scientific peer review studies. All of a sudden,
(07:22):
now you're a scientific colleague, and you're not some you know, caricature.
And so I've been on the ground. The culture at
the FDA is strong and getting stronger. The trains are
running on time, and so the FDA is going to
continue to be strong.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
What are some of the areas where you're hoping we
could see major breakthroughs? I mean broadly speaking, right, not
not asking about any particular thing that's you know, in
trials or but you know, people are hearing about christper
technology obviously I brought up AI and I do know
there's some people doctor Mcerrey, in the biotechnology space who
(07:58):
think that we could be on the precipice of a
goal of and age of discoveries that will just help
you know, you said that they're changing the approach to
healthcare overall. Right, that's part of the mission. Where are
some of the likely discoveries in the near future, I
mean over the next four years. Do you think that
we could see some pretty amazing things happen that either
(08:19):
extend lives, save lives, improve lives thanks to technology and
research that's going on right now.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I do. I do. And let me tell you why, Clay,
Because we're going to try to do everything possible during
my time at the FDA to cut the unnecessary delays,
the waiting around, the idle time, the time that drug
developers and inventors say where they're just doing guest work
because they can't talk to anyone at the FDA to
(08:48):
find out what they want in the application. We just
announced yesterday that all of our decision letters are going
to be public information, so companies are not going to
have to do guesswork to figure out how the FDA
thinks or what they want in an application. We're increasing
communications so a company can call us and ask a
(09:09):
question instead of doing guest work for a year. And
we have now a powerful AI tool that we just
launched across the FDA all of the centers where reviewers
have incredible computational power now to organize applications and to
summarize these giant, gnarly one hundred thousand page applications. We're
(09:32):
getting away from paper. We're doing a lot to cut
the waste.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What should people know, Doctor McCarey, and he's the head
of the FDA, came on the show for years before
he was the head of the FDA. What is the
absolute latest on the COVID shot. I know there's been
I think you came on right after the decision was
made not to recommend it necessarily for young people that
(09:56):
is very young, where are we now.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Even know what booster people are on.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But for people out there who have kids, I know
there's a lot of concern about the number of shots
that they're getting, a lot of examination of what is necessary,
what is not.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
What would you say parents should know about that?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, eighty five percent of healthcare workers said no to
the last COVID booster last fall, and that should tell
you something. You know, maybe there's a high risk group
where it makes sense. We're going to tell folks to
talk to their doctor. The government is not your doctor.
But are we going to just blindly rubber stamp COVID
boosters for young, healthy teenagers every year in perpetuity, such
(10:38):
that a ten year old girl today is going to
get sixty more COVID shots once every year for the
rest of our lifetime. No, we're not going to do
that without some clinical trials supporting that theory. So we're
getting back to gold standard science and I think people
appreciate it. We've outlined our whole framework for COVID vaccines
(10:58):
in the New England Journal of Men Medison. And we're
being very transparent about it. It's not we're not doing
deals with companies. We're being very public and transparent about everything.
And I think if we can do this everything well,
if we can cut the red tape, be transparent, show humility,
we can see cures for type one diabetes and neurodegenerative disorders,
(11:20):
and we can get to a universal flu shot, for example,
which is something in the works in early development, so
we don't have to guess every year what the strain
is going to be.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Dodger McCarey, we appreciate the time, and we appreciate all
the work that you're doing. Have a fantastic weekend and
we'll have you on again soon. Don't hesitate to reach
out anytime. We can help get the message out that
you think is important.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Great. Good to be with you, guys, Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
For sure, he's fantastic. I'm excited that he's in the
position that he is in. We come back. We'll take
some of your calls. More reaction pouring in after the
Axio story relating to the Epstein case, we'll dive into
that and more. I want to tell you's choosing. We're
just talking with the head of the FDA. Choosing the
healthcare coverage and which plan is right for you and
your family one of the most challenging decisions out there,
(12:09):
especially if you're self employed, on something as important as
your healthcare insurance. You want to feel good about the
decision you make. Why settle for a government plan like
the Affordable Care Act when there's better options out there.
That's called Ease for Everyone. It offers affordable healthcare for
as low as two hundred and sixty two bucks a month.
You keep your doctor, never pay a deductible, access over
(12:30):
four hundred prescription drugs for free. Go online to their
website see which plan is right for you and your family.
Ease for Everyone was developed by knowledge and forward thinking
people out there in my hometown of Nashville. Visit Ease
for Everyone dot com slash clay to join today. That's
Ease for Everyone dot Com.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Slash Clay stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories
that you unite us all. Spend time with Clay and
find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton show.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Okay, our thanks to doctor Martin McCarey. Buck.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I'm just gonna tell you this is going to be
a fascinating next hour and a half or so. We've
got Nicole Parker on at the top of our three,
the former FBI agent. I think we are going to
be deluge now. I'm just making the prediction with two different,
completely opposite positions.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
One is going to be all we want to.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Hear is about the Epstein case and the continued fallout
over Pambondi, Dan Bongino Cash till that's all we need
to talk about. You guys are in the tank. They've
gotten to you. You're bought off. If you don't talk
about it, that's gonna be email and talk back one.
Talk back two is gonna be I don't know why
(14:00):
you guys are talking about this at all, and I'm
just telling you that is going to be the duality.
You either think the Epstein story right now is the
biggest story in the entire country and everybody should be
talking about it all the time, or you think that
the Epstein story is the most overplayed, uninteresting, least important
(14:20):
story that exists and there's almost no one in the middle,
So we are going to allow you guys to just
fire away. And if you think that this story doesn't
matter and we are morons for discussing it, fire away
will read some of that. And if you think that
we are owned and that we've been bought off, and
that if we're not talking about it all the time,
(14:42):
and if we're not beating the drum and if we're
not baging a tab, you can send those two. So
I am predicting that there will be no one who's
in the middle, And they're like, I kind of think
this is interesting, but I don't really care that much.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There's not going to be anybody.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
You either hate every aspect of this story being covered
in a significant fashion and think it's totally overl and
there are many other things more significant to talk about,
or you think it's the only story that matters in
America right now. And I don't know what the breakdown
would be percentage wise in this audience, but that is
where we are. So we were just talking with doctor
(15:14):
Marty McCarey. Let me lay this out, buck and then
we'll take some talkbacks and everything else when we come back.
Here is where I think we are, and inevitably everybody's
gonna get furious about that. Are we talking, McCarry, We're
talking more on Epstein stuff. We have a couple of
thoughts on Okay, you want to a couple of well,
I'm just like I'm the Epstein thing all people are
(15:36):
responding to right now.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I don't know if it's a show phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Do you want do you want more Epstein coverage on
the show, or do you want any story? I am
going to go. I am going to put my thumb
on the scale of all Epstein rest of the show.
That's my But I want to hear what you have
to say about doctor Marty McCarey, because I do think
I'm just I'm sounding a little too you know too.
(16:03):
Oh everything is fine over here, not about the Epstein thing,
just to be clear, but just you know, life is okay,
Everything's gonna be all right. I think it's it's fascinating.
We don't talk about AI a lot on the show.
And one of the reasons that I wanted to bring
up doctor McCarey and wanted everyone to hear about this
is that the stuff that's going on right now with
Ai is incredible. And the more that I read about
(16:26):
and use AI just to see what it's capable of,
the more this is a little bit like the Internet
circa nineteen ninety six in terms of the transformation of
technology and with it our lives. That is right on
the precipice of occurring in a whole range of ways. Yes,
autonomous vehicles, yes, you know, being able to research and
(16:50):
find things, and the legal profession is going to be
so affected and all these. But if you can use
hyper intelligence effectively to do things like cure type one diabetes,
to he said, neurodegenitive disorders, things like Alzheimer's. I mean
taking supercomputers now and having them be able to go
(17:11):
through every iteration and permutation of all of the data
ever in all of the trials on the This stuff
is going to be happening, and it is going to
be incredible. I think the results that we're able to see.
Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'm not saying it's gonna
cure everything and we're not all going to live to
be you know, I don't want to live to be
(17:31):
five hundred, but you know, I do think that you're
going to see some pretty amazing stuff soon soon.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Okay, so we're gonna be super optimistic here. I agree.
I sign on to that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I actually think one of the most important things is
going to be figuring out how your body individually responds
to treatment, to.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Health and what you should eat like everybody.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
The idea that everybody has the exact same genotype, I
think is the phrase is just wrong. Everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
One aspect of being an adult is having your affairs
in order, whether you're twenty one or ninety one. Part
of that includes having a will or trust. When that
moment in time comes, and it comes for all of us,
your family can better understand your wishes if you do
this ahead of time, and you do it the right way.
Without a will, probate is opened and it can get
very expensive, time consuming, things can get delayed, and a
(18:21):
big percentage of your network can go to taxes instead
of your family. The good news is creating a will
has been made easier than ever and more affordable than
ever thanks to a website called Trust and Will dot Com.
On that website, you can create your own will or trust.
Trust and Will dot Com makes the whole process simple, affordable,
and the result gives you peace of mind. Just put
this on your to do list and check it off
(18:43):
as soon as you can. You need to get it done.
If you haven't, go to Trustdanwill dot com. They're experts
in creating personalized trust and Wills. Go to Trust and
Will dot com.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Today.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. That's all right, it's
a close enough. We've got much to dive into here.
I want to give you an update on this situation.
I just want to say, just so you know. Today
I wanted to talk MAHA Make America Healthy Again. We
had doctor McCarey on I. We're gonna, well, Nicole Parker's
gonna talk to us about the FBI situation too, former
(19:14):
FBI agent. But we were going to talk about the
ice raid in Camarillo, California and the federal judge A
Woosie Mensa frim good luck with that one. Yeah, who
has said that you basically can't arrest any illegals anymore
because she says so, like there are other stories I
(19:35):
do want to talk about in New York. Do you
guys know in New York you paid one hundred million
dollars for bridge lights that never got used and never
even got taken out of the warehouse. This is the
most classic New York thing ever the State of New
York under Cuomo.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
He wanted pretty of bridges. He wanted lights for the bridges.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
One hundred million dollars clay of light bulbs. They spent
two million dollars housing the light bulbs, were housing them
and never used them. And this is just how New
York uses the you know, the tax money that goes
People wonder why why does New York have over double
(20:15):
the budget of Florida.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
With less people because of crap like this.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So we could get into a lot of people out
there saying that sounds like my household. Well maybe not,
maybe not one hundred million, but there's probably some people
out there looking around saying it seems like we spent
a lot of money on things that never actually end
up being used, and just saying your your dad, your dad,
like that happens quite a lot. I I'm only a
(20:41):
couple of years into this marriage thing, but I do
not question household expenses around here.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I've just saying, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I will say book one of the one of the
healthiest things I've learned is I don't really know what
we spend on the household, and I feel like in
many ways that's that's probably better for me. I alwayso
think it's a bait. When was the last time you
cooked something? He said, I don't cook. I don't, I
mean not using a microwave. Yeah, I've never I don't.
I don't know that I have cooked anything not using
(21:07):
a microwave in.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Twenty years. A good wow. Okay, I cook all the time,
all right.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I'm impressed. I mean I'm impressed at your at your
cooking ability. You know, I was gonna make when Clay's
over here, I was gonna make him eggs. I make
fantastic eggs. But he's like on a smoothie diet. So
I was like, okay, we'll just smoothies these days, you know.
I I gotta try to I gotta try to cut
down the calory as much as I can. But no,
I use the I make myself sandwiches. I use the toaster. Well,
(21:36):
I'm really great with the toaster, and I'm pretty skilled
with our microwave. Kind of, if I can't do it
in one of those two places, then I eat it
out at some sort of restaurant or But you know. Look,
I eat like bananas, like apples, oranges, pre made meals
like I'm not. There's not a lot of bells and
whistles here. Okay, okay, bells wait wait wait yeah, okay.
(21:59):
So now we got the other thing and did the
other thing here with a kind of turn it into
a big story here. Jorian Kelly, our friend who's on
the show regularly, just tweeted. Sources confirm the blow up
meeting between Bongino and Pam Bondi is very real. This
has been brewing for four months, came to a head
at the White House on Wednesday. Bongino hasn't gone back
(22:21):
to the FBI office since that meeting. Most of the
frustration at the FBI, this is Julie Kelly relates to
Bondi's handling of Epstein disclosures and disputes between FBI and
Bondi about how to proceed. And here's the kicker, this
is again Julie Kelly. Bongino appears ready to resign eminently
(22:45):
if Bondi is not removed from office. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
So this is now President Trump's decision. He may have
to decide, do I want to key my deputy FBI
Director Dan Bongino or my Attorney General Pam Bondi, and
(23:07):
one or the other is saying, hey, if this guy
stays or this gal stays, I'm out. One thing that
can turn into a really big story. And this is
a fallout from Epstein and the way this investigation has
been handled. One thing you can't do is give an
ultimatum and then walk it back. So well, you can
pull a Costanza, you can pull the George because Mark,
(23:28):
but if you want to keep your if you want
to keep your credibility right, so in your path it
really is you can't say it's him or you know,
it's her or me, or him or me, and then
it's neither, and you're like, okay, that's that's not let's
not just pretend that ultimatum didn't happen. Some of you
may have had this in your job experiences before. Right,
(23:49):
you may have said, you know, I'm working with him, Uh,
it's gonna be me or him or me and her whatever. Yeah,
I will tell you once in my life at a
job at age, not radio, I will say that, not
a radio job. Once in my life I did have
to have a conversation where I was like, it's either
(24:09):
it's either him or me, and I was told, uh,
it will be him, but not for six months. And
I was like, okay, I'm out. So I actually it's
an ultimatum that I've had to give myself. So I've
been there by the way. Sometimes it's the right I've made.
I don't regret it at all. It's the right move.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And they didn't en up fire. They did end up
firing the guy.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
But they didn't fire him fast enough. So I say
that I'm out. A situation before, which is somewhat similar
where you're interviewing for jobs and you're like, hey, this job,
this is twenty years ago, this job offered me X.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Can you match X.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
They're like okay, we'll think about it, and then they
come back and they're like nope.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Then you're kind of like, okay, well either I can.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
They're kind of calling your bluff right like, so you
got to be careful sometimes you're negotiating, because you can
end up negotiating yourself. But did you have that other
offer or were you just oh yeah, okay totally And
they had offered more money. But it was eye opening
and important because if somebody can't match the offer that
somebody else has made for your services.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It may be that they just don't value you that highly.
Sometimes it's the.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Company's not doing well enough, and maybe you can look
at that and look, but if you are set to
make more money at another job and you come back
and you're like, hey, this is the offer I got,
Can you match it? Can you get close? And they
say no, kind of makes your decision easy. And so
that's not the same scenario if he has to go
or she has to go, or I'm leaving. Uh, but
it is a tough spot. And I have managed and
(25:41):
as a business I've had situations where people have said
to me, Hey, if this guy stays employed, then I'm leaving.
It's got to be one or the other of us.
And that's now it appears where Trump may be. Has
that ever been a tough call for you to make
or have you always known you can go buddy, or
oh no, don't worry, the other guy's going.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
You know what I'm saying. Has it ever been a
close call or has it been a clear call? Every time?
It's happened several times.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Honestly, as a manager, I feel like in media it
happens more for me.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I was gonna say, media people are hissy, you know,
we get.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
There's a lot of like petty fights that happened in
via lots of egos and lots of not gonna stun you, narcissism,
meglomania sometimes like this is not a media universe, is
not necessarily a well conditioned, normal job universe. I mean,
I will say, in that other job, by the way,
it was, it was it was me or my boss
(26:29):
all the time. And that's a that's a bold play
to go like, hey, do you have to yeah, and
and they were like no, no, no, you're right, and
and but it will happen, but it won't happen for
a while. And I said not good enough and I left.
So yeah, that's a that's a thing that you got
to be. By the way, if that goes against you,
you definitely can't stay because if you come for the
boss or your immediate boss, your immediate supervisor, and uh,
(26:51):
and that doesn't go you do not you do not
want that person writing your performance reviews going forward, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, So let's go into this. You are President Trump.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
President Trump is headed to Texas right now, to deal
with real serious stuff, that is the flood and the aftermath.
And the president doesn't get very many light things on
his desk, right, It's like serious things, all, Hey, what
are we gonna do with Russia Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
What are we gonna do with Israel?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Iran?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
What are we gonna do? A dilemmas? What are we
gonna do.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
With the ice agents being shot at potentially in California.
I would imagine that one of the things about being
president is nobody ever comes in and just says, hey,
I only have good news for you, sir. Hey, it's hey,
here's just a I've got a ton of rainbows that
just alighted out. Let's just all have fun. It's always
there's a new issue. How does Trump handle this? Because
(27:46):
he may well feel that the Epstein mess that he
has nothing to do with it, and that this predated him,
and that other people have made messes of the Epstein investigation,
and he is just stepping into essentially a huge minefield.
But if your top FBI people and your top attorney
(28:06):
general and your attorney general are going head to head,
now this's a big deal. The FBI provides the evidence
and the investigations that allow the Department of Justice to
prosecute The Attorney General is the head of the Department
of Justice. If they aren't getting along, then their ability
to execute the agenda that you believe is important for
the American people is not going to work. Well. Leave
(28:28):
aside the Epstein investigation for a second. This is a
major interpersonal conflict. And so if he is truly being
asked to choose one or the other, I don't know
what he does. I don't know what you guys would
do if you are the managers right now. And I
think it comes down to this is how I would
assess it. And I'm curious as a manager who's had
(28:49):
to make a decision like this many times before. Sometimes
you can go purely personal relationships. But to me, what
I would look at and say, Okay, who is better
at their job? Who is more indispensable to me right
now at their job?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
If I have to.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Choose between the two, I'm going to take the person
who is the best at his or her job and
tell the other person they have to go now. I'd
prefer never to have to make that decision. So I
think that's a question for Trump is where does this
rank in the larger universe for him, how does he
(29:25):
assess all of this? And by the way, remember either
way this is going to create a bigger mess around
the Epstein because if you fire your attorney general over it,
a lot of people are going to say, Okay, now
we can finally get all these files.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Pam BONDI was in on the cover up.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
If your FBI guy walks out, a lot of people
are going to say, wow, he's standing on principle there
is a cover up.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And he won't countenance it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
And this threatens I'm just gonna be honest with you,
This threatens to turn into the kind of political in
fighting that all of the media in DC that hates
Trump is going to love because it delegitimizes his ability
to get everything's done. You've talked about this before, and
I think it's well said, Buck. The process is the punishment.
(30:15):
As soon as this was all about Russia collusion, it
wasn't that it was true.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
It was that it was so.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Time consuming that it distracted from Trump's ability to execute
other parts of his agenda. My concern now with the
Epstein mess, Look, do we want pedophiles in prison? Yes,
like just like we want cancer salt like this is
not no one who's arguing on the Epstein cases like,
oh we want people who committed crimes against children not
to be punished. Leave that aside. It's about the larger
(30:43):
context of the Trump agenda. How much does Epstein the
case matter relative to everything else. This is where it
could start to derail other things that are otherwise I
think more important forward thinking as opposed to looking backwards.
We got one of our VIPs here, just it. We're
gonna I mean, we're getting inundated, just so you know,
in real time, with with emails from VIPs, with phone calls,
(31:05):
with talkbacks, and they're pretty much all on this. So
I this is I want to talk immigration policy, and
I'm a parent. I'm getting I'm getting voted down on that.
I mean, here, this is from one of our VIPs.
This has been Epstein. This has been a complete PR nightmare.
Pam Bondy, along with Cash and Dan should have done
a presser laying out explaining everything. By the way, I
said that on the first day, I said that the
(31:27):
memo was complete. That was idiocy, Okay, putting out that
memo on a Sunday from a PR I'm not even
talking cover upper conspiracy. I'm just you don't put out
a memo on a Sunday that is just like yeah,
nothing to see like that was a disaster.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That was dumb.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
But okay, here a VIP says, Unfortunately, now we're at
a point. I believe if Pam is not fired, then
Dan or Cash will resign. A full accounting is required.
Get this behind us. There are more important issues out there,
like full deportation. Uh you know co sign on that.
I you know that's that's about saving the entire country.
Uh for you know, keeping it as America. Clay, Yeah,
(32:04):
I think I think one of them is gonna one
of them is gonna go one way or another. I
think that much is clear. Something's got to give here,
someone's gotta go. I don't know who it's gonna be,
but there's problems. This is a problem. Look, I think
I always look at this from the assessment of who
has created the biggest error, and we don't know obviously
(32:24):
everything to me, Pam BONDI giving those influencers binders and
saying hey, this is a part of the Epstein files,
and then there was nothing in them, and it was
a huge like how do you make that decision right? Ultimately,
all high end jobs are about decision making. There is
(32:45):
no if I were Attorney general, God forbid, there's no
way I'm bringing in a bunch of influencers and giving
them I.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Think you'd be I think you'd be a pretty good AG.
I you know I would.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
I wouldn't sell yourself short there. But look at the
humility from Clay all of a sudden, I think you'd
be pretty good AG. I'm not getting any ideas here,
by the way, we need you hear, but I'm just
saying I think I would just have looked at the
optics on that, and I would have said, this is
insanely dumb. What are we putting in these binders? Why
(33:17):
are we parading around people with Epstein file binders that
have nothing in them? Like this is basic blocking, tackling stuff,
understanding how the media works, how stories work, and that
just is such a mess that to me is the
biggest unforced error. And then speaking inarticulately about what's on
(33:40):
your desk and what is not. To me, it is
a mess, and it is a self inflicted wound that
is I think frankly festering and threatens to overwhelm other
aspects of the forward looking agenda right now in the meantime, Look,
there's an instinct out there you want to protect your family.
(34:01):
That's why we have tons of objects all throughout the
house provided by Saber. Whether it's extra door locks, whether
it is alarms, whether it is the pepper projectile launcher
we legitimately pepper spray we have. I think this is true.
Every object that saberradio dot Com offers, we've got them all,
(34:21):
and it is great. It's the family owned business fifty years.
Products are reliable and trusted to help make you and
your family safe. All non lethal, just designed to be
the right tools to help protect you. Pepper pray, pepper
gel projectile launcher shaped like a pistol or rifle, but
it doesn't have protects you, doesn't have lethal consequences. So
(34:45):
if you've got people running around in your neighborhood, maybe
it's kids, maybe it's friends, people all around your neighborhood
setting off alarms. It's just happened in my house. Fourteen
year old sneaking in and out of the house. Happens
you got teenagers. Go online to saberradio dot com make
good decisions right now. You can say fifteen percent sab
R radio dot com. You can also call eight four
(35:07):
four eight two four Safe again. Just check it out
saberradio dot com. That's saberradio dot com. Eight four four
eight two four.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
Safe Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that
you unite us all each day, spend time with Clay
and buy find them on the free iHeartRadio app or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis buck Sexton Show, Appreciate all
of you for hanging out with us. Mark in o'calla says,
this is just a distraction.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Listen, epstein Case.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
I think everybody in alve should go to jail. I
think there should be dug to the furthest limits and
they all go down. But I think this is being
used to distracted to the fact that not one politician
who has violated RICO law selling out this country, not
one politician who created a fake Russia collusion hopes other
January sixth thing has been charged and guited, subpoened nothing.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Okay, that's true.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
But when the reports are out there from our friend
Julie Kelly, which I believe to be accurate that the
FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino has said it's either me
or Attorney General Pombondi. That's not a manufactured story. It's
real now. It's a result of all of the chaos
surrounding the Epsteine investigation, but it's significant. We'll talk about
(36:28):
that more. We're joined by Nicole Parker, who is an
FBI agent. She'll be off the top of the next segment.
We'll find out what she thinks about how all this
is playing out, who she would pick if she were
sitting at that desk all that more final hour of
the week.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Next
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.