October 2, 2024 • 36 mins
Legendary economist Dr. Art Laffer, former Reagan economic adviser and bestselling author, makes the economic case for Trump over Harris and gives a master class in economics – even answering a shrewd question posed through Clay by his son. C&B take calls on the VP debate.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our two Clay end Buck kicks off. Now let's jump
right into it with an economic deep dive. Art Laugher
joins us. Now, doctor Art Lafer, former Reagan economic advisor,
a guy behind a Laugher curve makes sense and author,
brilliant minds, all that good stuff, Doctor Laffer.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Appreciate you being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for habbing me. By
the way, I love your show.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you well.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You have excellent taste in radio as well as being
an economic piece. So tell us this, tell us this, sir,
if you would, if we were to give a you know,
not just the talking points obviously, that's why we have
you on to give us the reality of it, right,
the Biden Kamala economy of the last four years. If
you were prepping, let's say, Trump to go into a
(00:49):
debate and make the case about what it is, what
has actually gone wrong, what has gone right? I mean,
what is your scorecard for the US economy under the
stewardship of Biden the last four years?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, you know, if I were Trump doing this, I
would first place tell the story of what I did
as Trump during my first term. And it's my opinion
and as an economist, and I'm just talking about economics,
and that's it is. It was the single best first
term of any president in US history from the standpoint
of economics. And the energy policy was terrific. As you know,
(01:24):
we were energy independent because of decontrol because of his
policies there, Biden and Harris went the exact opposite direction. Also.
He also did an amazing job with Operation Warp Speed.
I mean he developed a vaccine in ten months, little
less than ten months. That was a phenomenal vaccine. By
spending some money and by getting rid of all the
(01:46):
red tape. People expected it would take six years or so,
and it didn't. He did it in ten months. I
mean amazing right to try, you know, the idea that
if you've got a terminal disease, you can try any
drug you'd like to do and not have to have
FDA approval. I think that was phenomenal as well. One
I think that was done in the debate with Vance
(02:07):
and Waltz was that medical transparency, price transparency. The executive order.
Trump did a phenomenal job on that. The Tax Cuts
and Jobs Act worked perfectly. I mean, it really did
pay for itself in the first two years, and it
brought the rates down me much more competitive, led to
firm economic growth, and there were no delays, no mistakes
(02:29):
made in that bill. The death tax was reduced quite substantially.
All of that was done, the personal income tax drop
from thirty nine six to thirty seven. There were a
couple of pass throughs there. I mean, he did a
superb job. And then you compare that with Biden, who
raised tax rates, who did a lot of spending. You know,
(02:50):
Trump did spending by the way, once the pandemic hit,
which I don't think should have been done, at least
a lot of it shouldn't have been. But Biden did
it the whole time there and just wasted them money.
And I think the operation of the Fed under Biden,
under Powell and Biden's term led to very high inflation
as well. So the way I take it is in
(03:11):
almost every single area of economics, Trump far exceeds Biden,
not only in volume but in direction. I think Trump
did tax cuts, Biden did tax increases of government spending.
Trump did tax spending cuts until the pandemic, and Biden
did the increases right from the get go. I mean,
look at defense again, the same thing there. The one
(03:35):
thing I would really juxtapose where I where I Trump
and Biden, where I Trump and Biden or Harris, is
the role played by you know, by peace through strength,
the sort of the old Reagan doctrine of peace through strength,
where Trump really followed it precisely in Biden and Harris
did just the opposite policy. They did war through war
(03:58):
through weakness. And so that's where that's where I'd come
out on the two teams. And Trump is just amazing
on economics and on international politics.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Okay, I wanted to have you on, doctor Laffer, and
I appreciate it. I've gotten to meet you a couple
of times. You live in Nashville. I think you got
one hundred and sixty three grandkids, which I'm glad to
have your genes, because we need as much intelligence in
economics as we can. But I want to dive in
because you're so good at explaining this. You have advised
or been involved with high level politicians for forty fifty years.
(04:32):
I mean, like you said, going back to Reagan.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
First, I was in nineteen seventy. I was in the
White House at George Schultz's right hand person in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Okay, going all the way back to nineteen seventy, I
look and hear Kamala Harris speak, and I think to myself,
she is functionally it seems to me economically illiterate, at
least with what she is saying publicly. She's talking about
price controls on grocery stores. You know this, Grocery stores
have one of the lowest level profits we've got in
(05:00):
any industry out there.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
She says that price.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Gouging is going on, and seems to be citing things
like what would happen with Hurricane Helene. We have laws
that are in place that you shouldn't be able to
suddenly charge ten dollars a gallon for a milk or
for a gallon of gas or whatever else because there's
a natural disaster. She doesn't seem to understand what those
price cap regulations are associated with. Since nineteen seventy, where
(05:26):
does Kamala Harris rank to you from an economic policy perspective.
Let's say there's just people out there making a decision. Hey,
I just want the best economy out there, because I
think a rising tide lifts all votes. That's what the
president should do. That's what the federal government should do.
Where does Kamala rank in your experience?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, I'm one hundred and six percent with you on
the rising tide the Kennedy model. Is this the perfect
model for this? To be honest with you, I mean,
if you judge her by Biden, that she was complicit
in all of the Biden policies, you know, she's a
big spending liberal Democrat, clear and simple, and buying votes
from other groups and causing the economy to weigh underperform.
(06:03):
I mean, that would be the perfect example. Price controls
is just something she naturally grabs to because she's been
raised in government all of her life, so she thinks,
if there's a problem, always go to government for a solution,
and price controls. I don't think she's aware of all
the problems we had with price controls under Nixon and
they just didn't work. They caused all sorts of dislocations,
(06:26):
and I don't think she understood. She's just trying to
She's just trying to explain or trying to justify or
trying to make excuses for why there was such high
inflation under Biden. Harris, and that you get the Gougers
et cetera, when in fact it was it was her
economic policies and slowed economic growth. It was hers and
Biden's economic monetary policies that increase the monetary base, the
(06:47):
balanceship sheet of the Fed. I mean, what was it
in two thousand and eight? I think the balance sheet
was at eight fifty eight billion something like that, er
fifty eight billion, and at its peak under by Harris
it was at nine point three trillion. I mean, is
it any wonder we had in high inflation under them?
That was exactly what happened. And they also caused the
(07:09):
economy to slow way way down, which further added to
inflationary pressure. So this is what she's trying to do,
and she's just trying to find excuses and see if
something sticks by throwing it against the wall. I'm not
sure how she'll behave once she's in office, though.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
What do you think, doctor Laffer, Let's pretend that COVID
doesn't happen Trump in February of twenty twenty, I think
we had the strongest economy in the history of the
United States, White, Black, Asian, Hispanic wages arising, inflation's one
point four percent or whatever. The heck, it was two
and a half percent mortgage rates. People have more money
(07:44):
in their pocket if COVID doesn't happen. And we're having
this conversation right now, how good do you think a
second term? Because I think Trump would have won without
COVID for sure, How good do you think a second
Trump term would have been for the economy? And where
do you think we'd be sitting right now?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Well, you know, I think everyone agrees with you that
Trump would have won in a landslide and maybe get
forty nine states. I think even Saturday Night Live conceded
that time and time until the COVID hit, and the
COVID became the perfect opportunity, opportunity for the Democrats to
try to knock him down, and they succeeded, and that
if it hadn't have occurred, I think we would have
(08:25):
had the best presidency ever in US history. His first
term was singularly the best in economics of any presidency
in its first term period. And I really went through
a bunch of them there with you. But there was
a lot more in deregulation, ten deregulations for everyone, the
Supreme Court that he appointed, and I'm not talking social
(08:45):
issues now here, I'm talking just economics. They reigned back
all the regulatory agencies to not be able to legislate
through regulations through the regulatory agencies. I mean, how cool
is that? I mean, all of this stuff. I think Trump,
with the super he had with the Congress he would
have had as well, could have done a job even
better than Reagan did on the second term. And Reagan's
(09:07):
second term was spectacular. I mean, Reagan cut the highest
tax rate in his two terms from seventy percent to
twenty eight percent. He raised the lowest rate from twelve
and a half percent to fifteen. He went from eleven
tax brackets to two tax brackets. He cut the corporate
rate from forty six to thirty four. I mean he
got rid of all those deductions, exemptions, exclusions, loopholes. I mean,
(09:31):
we got a vote in the Senate for the bill
for the eighty six Tax Act of ninety seven to three.
We got all the Libs to vote with us because
it was the right thing to do. I think Trump
could have matched that easily and done an even better
job than Reagan did if he had not had the
pandemic and been elected. So I'm really very sad that
he wasn't reelected. Without the pandemic, I mean, it would
(09:55):
have been just a phenomenal period. We would have been
we wouldn't have had any of these wars. Least, we
wouldn't be in the Ukraine. We wouldn't have Houti rebels
firing rockets at our ships or any of that stuff.
It would have been pieced through strength, and the strength
is in the economy as well as defense and strength.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
We spiking an art Laffer and Art I'm sorry. I
just wanted to say, if you could take take us
for a look ahead. Let's say that the American people
do the right thing and Donald Trump does win for
more years. A lot of it will be the reinstituting
of policies that you've been discussing that were so successful.
But what would you add to that, or what would
(10:34):
you say would be top of the economic agenda for
Trump term two to really get things cooking again.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I really think price transparency, health transparency. You know, there
is a huge you know, we've had a huge reduction
in our life expectancy relative to the OECD over the
last fifty plus years, and a huge increase in the
cost of healthcare. Over that same time period again relative
to the OECD. I mean, we have been suffer enormously
(11:01):
because we don't have price transparency. You don't know what
the prices are, you don't know what the qualities are.
It's all hidden in insurance companies, policies, et cetera. And
we need price transparency, which I think Trump should do.
I think Trump will do it, and I think it
will have an enormous impact. Remember, healthcare is something like
twenty percent of GDP, and to have a non market
(11:22):
economy as twenty percent of the GDP is just killing us.
I mean literally and figuratively. That I think is the
single most important thing to do.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
We're talking to doctor Art Laffer. Last question for you
at Actually, my sixteen year old who is a junior
in high school right now, wanted me to ask you
about this.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Uh oh.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He's fired up.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
About the national debt and the concept he does debate
and the concept of modern monetary theory and he wants
to know. And I said, I'm talking to a super
smart economist on the show. He knows who you are,
he studied your work. I think he's going to major
in economics when he gets older. He wants to know
at what rate does our national debt become so crippling
(12:06):
that no matter what political party you are are supporting,
it becomes incredibly difficult to get the economy rolling because
of the weight of that national debt.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I think we're miles and miles and miles away from
that type of crux. If you look at debt, you
should never compare it to GDP. You know, everyone says
it's one hundred and twenty percent of GDP or whatever
the numbers are. You should always compare debt to wealth
or debt service to GDP. If you look at debt
to wealth, you know it's too high, but it's not critical.
(12:39):
Don't jump out the window. If you look at debt
service to GDP, it's still too high, but we have
plenty from to be able to grow our way out
of this debt. And remember always that it's not debt
that's the problem. Debt is a tool. It's the spread.
If you use the spending to pay people not to work,
(13:00):
that's killed your economy. If you use the spending to
create jobs, output employment by cutting taxes and by increasing
defenses we did under Reagan, it's the biggest boon to
economic growth. You can imagine. So I would tell your son,
you know, don't get overly worried about the debt. It's
not a debt problem. We can grow out of this
(13:20):
debt with good policies very easily, and which shouldn't be
people shouldn't be on the edge of their chairs jumping
out the windows. It's not the biggest problem. We need
a low rate, broad based slat tax, spending restraints, sound money,
minimal regulations, and free trade and this economy will take
care of debt in minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
H w for our life, for appreciate you being with us, sir, my.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Pleasure, Thank you very much for having me, and say
hell Lord to that child of yours.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I will for sure, sir, thank you.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I hope the answer was okay for him.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He'll love it. He's in class for now, but we'll
play it for him.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Yeah, it's the deal.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Thank you, my friends.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
There's a lot of instability overseas, and there's still this
chance that you might have for more years of a
Democrat administration. I know, I don't think it's gonna happen,
but it could happen, and then the printing would be
going on, inflation would rise. What can you do now
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(14:23):
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Speaker 5 (15:15):
Two guys walk up to a mic eight. Anything goes
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show Man.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I love Art Laugher.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I wanted someone on who could directly talk about economic
policy and if you are out there, and I think
there are a ton of voters, It's why I think
the economy is the number one issue that most people
care about. I wish we could wave a magic wand
Buck February of twenty twenty. And I think this is
why so many people nostalgically like the Trump era, because
(15:54):
they remember when the economy was rolling and everybody had
more money in their pocket, White, Black, AEE, Asian, Hispanic.
If COVID doesn't happen, I think the economy would have
been absolutely roaring in November of twenty twenty, and there
would not have been the same rig job opportunities with
absentee ballots and all the other things. I think Trump
(16:16):
would have rolled to a victory that would have been
devastating to Democrats. And right now we would have a
non incumbent election. Everything's different. I do think people want
to do over and I think when you heard our laugher,
they are running through all of the economic answers and
policies that Trump put in place that were so incredibly successful.
I think a lot of you believe, and I do
(16:37):
as well, that if Trump gets back in office, he's
basically going to get a do over that COVID took
away from him.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Very likely, and I hope that that comes to pass. Also,
want to take calls because we didn't get a chance
to yet. Yeah, on your reactions to the debate last night,
So we can do that. We don't have a guest
here right, not up next to big no guests. Now
we can take calls. Yes, let's take some calls. Eight
hundred and two, ay, two to two? Light up those lines.
Biggest takeaways from all of you on that debate last night.
(17:06):
I think it's kind of universal that Jade Vance was
very skillful up there and very effective. But if you
think there were some other takeaways, I definitely want to
hear what those were. And I suppose now it's is
it official that Trump? I guess official isn't the right word.
Are we certain that Trump is not going to debate again?
He said he won't. Is that just no longer even
(17:27):
under discussion? Or is it still up in the air.
I think it's still with Trump. You know, he can
change his mind at any point. I think what we're
going to see is the polls are going to continue
to move in Trump's direction, and I think they're going
to say to him, in the same way that he's
not doing this sixty minutes.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Interview, You're going to win. There's no point in doing
any more debates. And the longer it goes, I mean, look,
a lot of you are already gonna voted, So the
impact of a debate, I would argue, at this point
is negligible. I also think buck the reality is everybody's
made up their mind. I don't think there's anything more
people are going to hear that change the things.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
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Speaker 2 (18:58):
Racked in stacked and Paul here on play and Buck.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And as you hear us talk to folks, remember lines
open off after we take each call, so you know
with the number ras plus we'll get some VIP emails.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Want to bring all of you on.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
This and clanbuck dot com sign up, become a VIP
for that VIP in Fox Access. Let's go to Scott
in Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
What's going on? Skuy, listen to us on k e X.
What do you got up there?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Well, thank you for taking Paul. I was just telling
the screener that I thought JD did a fantastic job
last night. I had just two frustrations between when they
bring up the energy independence I never hear the question
asked them, why did you on day one stop the
Keystone pipeline?
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Why did you do that?
Speaker 6 (19:45):
I don't see that rebuttle. And the second point is
when they bring up the twenty twenty five project. I
would love to have JD turn to Tim and say, Sern,
we do not support that. Please quit bringing that up.
That is not anything the President of right support and
we want to make it very clear about that. And
I don't hear that rebuttal from it. And last by
(20:06):
so that's wells are just a few things I wish
I would hear him say more often.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I hear Scott, those are pretty specific. I mean it's fine.
I don't disagree with your assessment of how he could
have responded those, but I wouldn't put those clay, Thank you, Scott.
I wouldn't put those in the like swing in a miscategory.
I mean, he's got's only so much he's going to
be able to do up there. In response, I mean
the Keystone pipeline thing, it's a very solid argument. It's
(20:34):
been a while. I don't think people pay as much
attention to it, not to say that it's not right
and it wouldn't have been good. I'm just saying it's
not like some of the other moments where I'm like,
you know, when here's what we didn't get to. When
one of the anchors like, can you explain to us,
like why millions of migrants affects housing prices? Supply and demand?
(20:55):
Why do millions of people come into the country need
play to live?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
What does this do to price? That was yeah, well
back it was like JD Vance.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I think I tweeted then that it was uncomfortable how
dumb the moderators were compared to him. I mean, because
on the one hand, I to your point, I just
wanted him to say, Okay, are you familiar with the
concept of supply and demand? When there is more demand
than there is supply, the most basic rule of economics
is prices go up when we have And I thought
(21:33):
he said, and he did a good job, twenty five million.
I think he said at one point illegals in the country.
The other thing, and we haven't mentioned this buck, but
I do think it's important we mentioned how they talked
about Hurricane Helene in the context of climate change. They
also talked about illegal immigration in the context of taking
kids away from their parents. The way that they even
(21:55):
asked that question presupposed and I thought jd. Vance did
a job with it, but it presupposed that deporting illegals
was inhumane because they folks, they didn't say, hey, there's
over four hundred thousand illegal criminals that have entered this country.
There are sixteen thousand rapists, thirteen thousand murderers. Jad Vans
(22:16):
actually did a good job and said, well, I think
we should start with the criminals. He did a good
job pivoting there, but it was will you tear apart
families from their children. He then pointed out that they
are somewhere around three hundred thousand children that we don't
even know where they are. Hopefully they're with their families,
but they are lost as a process of coming across
(22:36):
the border. But it's a good example of again a
rigged question that was set up to try to make
him look bad, whereas most of the Tim Walls questions
were like Senator, I mean, I mean, Governor, you've done
an amazing job in Minnesota. Could you please explain why
you're so good on healthcare? You know, also, in many ways.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I very obvious that the CBS anchors they're not worried
about family separation. And it comes to American citizens prosecutor
for non violent crimes for being obstructing a government proceeding
on January sixth and being held in solitary confinement, that's
family separation. Yeah, solitary confinement separates families. Over a thousand
(23:14):
Americans treated like al Qaeda terrorists because in a vast
majority of the cases they walked into a government building
during a riot and left, and you know, those families
are separated and those lives are destroyed, no concern whatsoever
from the CP And in fact, they cheered that on.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
They want more of that.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
They would like you and me, Clay to be separated
from our families by being thrown into prison for wrong think.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Also I would build on what you just said, separation
of families. JD didn't do it, but a good pivot
there as well. I thought he pivoted pretty well and
talked about criminals and how they were going to be
the first to be deported. Also building on what you said.
But it's even worse than that. We're separating families because
illegals are murdering innocent people, or family relationships are being
(24:02):
ended forever or permanent separatory.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yes, and that's what we should be concerned about, is
protecting American citizens, not concerned with non citizens feelings. If
I have to rank in the priority, that's the way
that I would analyze it. But I thought it was
all yblematic of the unfair questioning that that's the angle
they did it through.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
You have to people have to have some there's some
punishment or else a law means nothing right. And so
you can't tell you're not gonna make money from these
individuals were crossing illegally because they generally don't have any
if you don't detain, if you don't put them through
some kind of ilegal process. But what this is what
we have a wide open border because why not.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Just show up? Just show up, you'll get to stay,
and then you go.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
To these sanctuary jurisdictions and they will give you resources
that are taken from Americans with the threat of imprisonment.
By the way, because that's what taxes are. They'll take
your home if you don't pay your taxes. They'll take
your freedom if you don't pay your income taxes, but
that money also then goes into the two of billions
and billions of dollars of people who, under our own
(25:03):
legal statutes are not allowed to be here. And we're
supposed to be okay with the situation. You know, they'll
they'll lock you up for not paying your taxes. But
you better be willing to give free everything to all
these illegals who show up because they say so. You know,
the law is not the law with them. That much
is obvious.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Dan, and Long Island. What's going on?
Speaker 7 (25:23):
Dan? Well, at a touch base, I listened to you
guys all the time, love the show. Thanks you though
that you normally tell us all the time, Clay, that
you read the time so that we don't have to.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Read it every morning.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
Today, Yeah, today, for the first time I actually perused
through it. I was looking for info on the debate
and there was nothing to be found. I know the
debate was late, but it seemed to be in other
papers and the only blurb was in the front, bottom
quarter and he said you could find me on the website.
Speaker 8 (25:57):
And I just took that as a a signal that
they really knew that they got them bucks kicked.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
Last night and they really had nothing good to say,
so they didn't want to say anything.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Well, thanks for calling in, Dan, and yeah, I read
the New York Times and the Washington Post every morning,
so none of you have to unless you want to.
I will say that one thing I have noticed, Buck,
is most newspapers have.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Crept even earlier and earlier.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
They're so called print deadline, so that it used to
be when I was a kid, I was really upset
because the West Coast sports scores would not be in
the morning newspapers. So if you had a favorite team,
and my favorite team as a kid was Cincinnati Reds
and they're playing let's say the Badgers, you wouldn't get
that score because the print paper deadline. Now, it seems
(26:43):
like the New York Times prints at like four o'clock
in the afternoon. I mean, so they have almost nothing
relating unless it happened really early in the day. They're
like a day behind in the print publication. For us
old people out there who still read the print, that's
why you have to go online. So I'm not trying
to defend them, but I do think that's the function
of the paper deadline.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
We do have a lot of communist ground covered for
our audience. Between you reading the New York Times every
day and me watching Morning Joe as I drink my
crock at coffee in the morning, we we know what
they're putting out there, what Pravda is is trying to
force feed the Democratic.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Well, when I got over to your house and we
were in Miami last week, I walked in and there's
Joe Scarborough staring right back at him from your big
screen television.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
In your living room.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I mean, you're you're not you are you are behind
the enemy lines every day, Dave by the way, Springfield, Springfield, Yeah.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
Hey, clam Buck, Hey, I was just calling in. I
just wanted to say that, Uh, you know, I've been
a lifelong Democrat and I voted Democrat every presidential election
pretty much. And I thought that Advance won the debate
last night, and I was pretty annoyed by the media
(27:58):
a media a media media coverage of Walls winning. And
I just want to say I've been I listened to
Rush Limba, I've been listening to you guys, and I've
become a conservative. And I live in Massachusetts, so I
don't think my vote really matters that much.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
But David. So, first of all, let me ask you
this question.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Thank you for listening, and we like to think that
this can happen, right if you listen to arguments that
over time you can start and say, hey, you know what,
I think that argument's better than the other argument. I've
been willing to be persuaded that I voted incorrectly in
the past. I've an open mind. I think I wish
more voters did. And I understand you're in Massachusetts, which
is a Democrat stronghold, but you can still be very
(28:40):
impactful local elections everything else. How did you vote in
twenty twenty, I'm just kind of curious.
Speaker 9 (28:47):
Oh, I voted for Biden. I actually ran for the
Democratic State Committee and was elected. So I was on
the Democratic State Committee.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
And so what is there any one issue that has
pushed you to being willing to vote Republican over the
last four years? Because I do think while you feel
like you're not, you know, represented necessarily or not that common,
I actually think there are tens of thousands, if not
hundreds of thousands of people listening to us right now
(29:14):
across the country that have had a similar political trajectory
to you. So I'm just kind of curious, what if
there was any one or two things that finally pushed
you to a different direction.
Speaker 9 (29:26):
Well, I when I went to the University of Massachusetts,
I just noticed there was so much government waste. I
don't want my taxpayer dollars going to just wasteful bureaucracy
things that aren't helping the average citizens of Massachusetts or
the country. Immigration is a huge issue. I think it's
completely out of control, and I completely agree with Trump
(29:47):
on immigration. But you know, if Vance was the candidate,
I would be voting for Vance one hundred percent. Despite
his inexperience. I thought he was great last night, and
I see a future of respectful debate and a positive
conservatism that is going to be better for this country
than a road to communism.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, well, thank you for I appreciate you appreciate it. Yeah, yeah,
I was just gonna say I appreciate him calling in.
Uh And you know, look, I know what it's like.
Davi is in the middle Massachusetts, which I think is
the most Democrat state in the entire country by by
red political registration, the blue the bluest I think it is.
It is a little bluer than California. Uh, but that
(30:30):
doesn't mean that you don't have a role to play
as well by trying to make the Democrats more sane
around you, and trying to also provide some camaraderie to
the other conservatives there. I mean in New York City,
I was outnumbered something like eight to one. But you
know Fox News is in New York City. iHeart has
(30:51):
you know Russia Studio, Shawn Studio. I mean in New
York City, So, uh, you know there there are conservatives
even in the bluest of places, and they have a
role playing all this as well.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
We have Owen in Surprise, Arizona Surprise.
Speaker 8 (31:09):
Make sure taking my call, guys, I really appreciate it.
First off, I want to say Arizona's going red this year.
They're not sticking with blue. I'm telling you right now.
I work outside. I work in all retirement communities. I
see these polls out there saying that you know, Kamala
is winning with seniors. Trust me, she's not winning with seniors.
(31:33):
Trust nothing but Trumps signs everywhere. She's not winning. Anyways,
the debate last night, I thought it was great. Vance
he I haven't really seen him speak that much, but wow,
he's a smart guy. I think he's going to be
president one day. I really do. Me and him are
about the same age, so it was kind of It's
kind of inspiring to see someone from my generation get
(31:54):
up there and put on a good show. I mean,
I thought he dominated. I thought the moderators were absolutely horrible.
I thought Walts was nervous and bug eyed, And I
will say that I do respect the I want to
say I respect Walt's when it comes to the unity
that was on display. You know, they shook hands, they
(32:16):
agreed to disagree at times. It was kind of nice.
I feel like the country really needs more of that,
Like we need to have discussions without beating the crap
out of each other. We can agree to disagree. We
should get back to that. As far as the bias
in the for the moderators, I have an easy solution.
Have Rachel Mannow host one debate and have Sean Hannity
(32:39):
post another. I think it's pretty simple. The country's aware
of it. Everyone knows that the media is biased, so
I think that would solve everything. But in reality, we
know that's.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Not going to happen. Thanks for the call.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I actually think Buck my solution has been the Republican
gets to pick the questioner of the Democratmocrat gets to
pick the questioner of the Republican.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Right, well, have you could also ratchet it up or
ratchet it down, depending on you know, respect would be
met with respect and ambush would be met with ambush.
I mean last night CBS, no honest person could watch
what was going on there and not say, yeah, these
anchors are trying to help Walls. It's very you know,
we do this for a living. Like I know, within
the first twenty seconds of a host questioning any guest,
(33:26):
does this host like the person? Are they letting them
speak to the Are they gonna let them speak or
is this an ambush?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know right away?
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Yes, you definitely do. We'll come back in a sec.
We appreciate all the calls out there. I do think
we're getting a lot of responses from people who liked
the civility. Even if they disagreed with Walls, they respected
the fact that it was a disagreement. It wasn't like,
oh my goodness, you're hitler, which is what they have
(33:53):
done to Trump for a long time. And in fact,
some on the left were unhappy with Tim Walls because
they said he wasn't aggressive enough in prosecuting the case,
and he was too middle of the road and likable
in some ways for the left. Being a LifeLock member
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Speaker 5 (35:05):
Have fun with the guys on Sundays, the Sunday Hang podcast,
It's Silly, It's goofy, It's good times. Fight it in
the Clay and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts. Clay Travis Buck Sexton
Show will continue to take some of your calls in
the third hour. Also, we are scheduled to be joined
by Trey Yanks, who has a brand new book out
(35:29):
Live from Israel, where certainly they had an unbelievable day
yesterday with the attack from Iran. Biden has come out Buck,
I don't know if you saw it walking across an
airport tarmac and said that he does not believe that
Israel should attack inside of Iran. So we will see
whether or not Israel listens at all to the United
(35:51):
States or decides that it needs to take action inside
of Iran in a major way. That is certainly something
to be decided. We have the Jewish holiday Rashashan. I
believe that starts tonight, so that may factor in in
terms of how they might respond as well.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
We come back. We'll take some more of your calls.
We'll continue to react to Tim Walls versus JD Vance
last night's VP debate. I got an argument for you.
I saw an emailer out there already asking me, how
do you think the optics and the cosmetics. Nothing from
the arguments itself, just how the guys looked is going
(36:31):
to play out going forward with independent voters. That's part one,
Part two. If you are in Michigan, Wisconsin, or Pennsylvania
where it feels like this race is going to be decided,
you had two Midwestern guys, Tim Walls, JD Vans. Who
do you think more reflected what the Midwest is like
(36:52):
and what that appeal might look like.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
We'll discuss coming back to
Our two Clay end Buck kicks off. Now let's jump
right into it with an economic deep dive. Art Laugher
joins us. Now, doctor Art Lafer, former Reagan economic advisor,
a guy behind a Laugher curve makes sense and author,
brilliant minds, all that good stuff, Doctor Laffer.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Appreciate you being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for habbing me. By
the way, I love your show.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you well.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You have excellent taste in radio as well as being
an economic piece. So tell us this, tell us this, sir,
if you would, if we were to give a you know,
not just the talking points obviously, that's why we have
you on to give us the reality of it, right,
the Biden Kamala economy of the last four years. If
you were prepping, let's say, Trump to go into a
(00:49):
debate and make the case about what it is, what
has actually gone wrong, what has gone right? I mean,
what is your scorecard for the US economy under the
stewardship of Biden the last four years?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, you know, if I were Trump doing this, I
would first place tell the story of what I did
as Trump during my first term. And it's my opinion
and as an economist, and I'm just talking about economics,
and that's it is. It was the single best first
term of any president in US history from the standpoint
of economics. And the energy policy was terrific. As you know,
(01:24):
we were energy independent because of decontrol because of his
policies there, Biden and Harris went the exact opposite direction. Also.
He also did an amazing job with Operation Warp Speed.
I mean he developed a vaccine in ten months, little
less than ten months. That was a phenomenal vaccine. By
spending some money and by getting rid of all the
(01:46):
red tape. People expected it would take six years or so,
and it didn't. He did it in ten months. I
mean amazing right to try, you know, the idea that
if you've got a terminal disease, you can try any
drug you'd like to do and not have to have
FDA approval. I think that was phenomenal as well. One
I think that was done in the debate with Vance
(02:07):
and Waltz was that medical transparency, price transparency. The executive order.
Trump did a phenomenal job on that. The Tax Cuts
and Jobs Act worked perfectly. I mean, it really did
pay for itself in the first two years, and it
brought the rates down me much more competitive, led to
firm economic growth, and there were no delays, no mistakes
(02:29):
made in that bill. The death tax was reduced quite substantially.
All of that was done, the personal income tax drop
from thirty nine six to thirty seven. There were a
couple of pass throughs there. I mean, he did a
superb job. And then you compare that with Biden, who
raised tax rates, who did a lot of spending. You know,
(02:50):
Trump did spending by the way, once the pandemic hit,
which I don't think should have been done, at least
a lot of it shouldn't have been. But Biden did
it the whole time there and just wasted them money.
And I think the operation of the Fed under Biden,
under Powell and Biden's term led to very high inflation
as well. So the way I take it is in
(03:11):
almost every single area of economics, Trump far exceeds Biden,
not only in volume but in direction. I think Trump
did tax cuts, Biden did tax increases of government spending.
Trump did tax spending cuts until the pandemic, and Biden
did the increases right from the get go. I mean,
look at defense again, the same thing there. The one
(03:35):
thing I would really juxtapose where I where I Trump
and Biden, where I Trump and Biden or Harris, is
the role played by you know, by peace through strength,
the sort of the old Reagan doctrine of peace through strength,
where Trump really followed it precisely in Biden and Harris
did just the opposite policy. They did war through war
(03:58):
through weakness. And so that's where that's where I'd come
out on the two teams. And Trump is just amazing
on economics and on international politics.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Okay, I wanted to have you on, doctor Laffer, and
I appreciate it. I've gotten to meet you a couple
of times. You live in Nashville. I think you got
one hundred and sixty three grandkids, which I'm glad to
have your genes, because we need as much intelligence in
economics as we can. But I want to dive in
because you're so good at explaining this. You have advised
or been involved with high level politicians for forty fifty years.
(04:32):
I mean, like you said, going back to Reagan.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
First, I was in nineteen seventy. I was in the
White House at George Schultz's right hand person in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Okay, going all the way back to nineteen seventy, I
look and hear Kamala Harris speak, and I think to myself,
she is functionally it seems to me economically illiterate, at
least with what she is saying publicly. She's talking about
price controls on grocery stores. You know this, Grocery stores
have one of the lowest level profits we've got in
(05:00):
any industry out there.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
She says that price.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Gouging is going on, and seems to be citing things
like what would happen with Hurricane Helene. We have laws
that are in place that you shouldn't be able to
suddenly charge ten dollars a gallon for a milk or
for a gallon of gas or whatever else because there's
a natural disaster. She doesn't seem to understand what those
price cap regulations are associated with. Since nineteen seventy, where
(05:26):
does Kamala Harris rank to you from an economic policy perspective.
Let's say there's just people out there making a decision. Hey,
I just want the best economy out there, because I
think a rising tide lifts all votes. That's what the
president should do. That's what the federal government should do.
Where does Kamala rank in your experience?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, I'm one hundred and six percent with you on
the rising tide the Kennedy model. Is this the perfect
model for this? To be honest with you, I mean,
if you judge her by Biden, that she was complicit
in all of the Biden policies, you know, she's a
big spending liberal Democrat, clear and simple, and buying votes
from other groups and causing the economy to weigh underperform.
(06:03):
I mean, that would be the perfect example. Price controls
is just something she naturally grabs to because she's been
raised in government all of her life, so she thinks,
if there's a problem, always go to government for a solution,
and price controls. I don't think she's aware of all
the problems we had with price controls under Nixon and
they just didn't work. They caused all sorts of dislocations,
(06:26):
and I don't think she understood. She's just trying to
She's just trying to explain or trying to justify or
trying to make excuses for why there was such high
inflation under Biden. Harris, and that you get the Gougers
et cetera, when in fact it was it was her
economic policies and slowed economic growth. It was hers and
Biden's economic monetary policies that increase the monetary base, the
(06:47):
balanceship sheet of the Fed. I mean, what was it
in two thousand and eight? I think the balance sheet
was at eight fifty eight billion something like that, er
fifty eight billion, and at its peak under by Harris
it was at nine point three trillion. I mean, is
it any wonder we had in high inflation under them?
That was exactly what happened. And they also caused the
(07:09):
economy to slow way way down, which further added to
inflationary pressure. So this is what she's trying to do,
and she's just trying to find excuses and see if
something sticks by throwing it against the wall. I'm not
sure how she'll behave once she's in office, though.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
What do you think, doctor Laffer, Let's pretend that COVID
doesn't happen Trump in February of twenty twenty, I think
we had the strongest economy in the history of the
United States, White, Black, Asian, Hispanic wages arising, inflation's one
point four percent or whatever. The heck, it was two
and a half percent mortgage rates. People have more money
(07:44):
in their pocket if COVID doesn't happen. And we're having
this conversation right now, how good do you think a
second term? Because I think Trump would have won without
COVID for sure, How good do you think a second
Trump term would have been for the economy? And where
do you think we'd be sitting right now?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Well, you know, I think everyone agrees with you that
Trump would have won in a landslide and maybe get
forty nine states. I think even Saturday Night Live conceded
that time and time until the COVID hit, and the
COVID became the perfect opportunity, opportunity for the Democrats to
try to knock him down, and they succeeded, and that
if it hadn't have occurred, I think we would have
(08:25):
had the best presidency ever in US history. His first
term was singularly the best in economics of any presidency
in its first term period. And I really went through
a bunch of them there with you. But there was
a lot more in deregulation, ten deregulations for everyone, the
Supreme Court that he appointed, and I'm not talking social
(08:45):
issues now here, I'm talking just economics. They reigned back
all the regulatory agencies to not be able to legislate
through regulations through the regulatory agencies. I mean, how cool
is that? I mean, all of this stuff. I think Trump,
with the super he had with the Congress he would
have had as well, could have done a job even
better than Reagan did on the second term. And Reagan's
(09:07):
second term was spectacular. I mean, Reagan cut the highest
tax rate in his two terms from seventy percent to
twenty eight percent. He raised the lowest rate from twelve
and a half percent to fifteen. He went from eleven
tax brackets to two tax brackets. He cut the corporate
rate from forty six to thirty four. I mean he
got rid of all those deductions, exemptions, exclusions, loopholes. I mean,
(09:31):
we got a vote in the Senate for the bill
for the eighty six Tax Act of ninety seven to three.
We got all the Libs to vote with us because
it was the right thing to do. I think Trump
could have matched that easily and done an even better
job than Reagan did if he had not had the
pandemic and been elected. So I'm really very sad that
he wasn't reelected. Without the pandemic, I mean, it would
(09:55):
have been just a phenomenal period. We would have been
we wouldn't have had any of these wars. Least, we
wouldn't be in the Ukraine. We wouldn't have Houti rebels
firing rockets at our ships or any of that stuff.
It would have been pieced through strength, and the strength
is in the economy as well as defense and strength.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
We spiking an art Laffer and Art I'm sorry. I
just wanted to say, if you could take take us
for a look ahead. Let's say that the American people
do the right thing and Donald Trump does win for
more years. A lot of it will be the reinstituting
of policies that you've been discussing that were so successful.
But what would you add to that, or what would
(10:34):
you say would be top of the economic agenda for
Trump term two to really get things cooking again.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I really think price transparency, health transparency. You know, there
is a huge you know, we've had a huge reduction
in our life expectancy relative to the OECD over the
last fifty plus years, and a huge increase in the
cost of healthcare. Over that same time period again relative
to the OECD. I mean, we have been suffer enormously
(11:01):
because we don't have price transparency. You don't know what
the prices are, you don't know what the qualities are.
It's all hidden in insurance companies, policies, et cetera. And
we need price transparency, which I think Trump should do.
I think Trump will do it, and I think it
will have an enormous impact. Remember, healthcare is something like
twenty percent of GDP, and to have a non market
(11:22):
economy as twenty percent of the GDP is just killing us.
I mean literally and figuratively. That I think is the
single most important thing to do.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
We're talking to doctor Art Laffer. Last question for you
at Actually, my sixteen year old who is a junior
in high school right now, wanted me to ask you
about this.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Uh oh.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He's fired up.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
About the national debt and the concept he does debate
and the concept of modern monetary theory and he wants
to know. And I said, I'm talking to a super
smart economist on the show. He knows who you are,
he studied your work. I think he's going to major
in economics when he gets older. He wants to know
at what rate does our national debt become so crippling
(12:06):
that no matter what political party you are are supporting,
it becomes incredibly difficult to get the economy rolling because
of the weight of that national debt.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I think we're miles and miles and miles away from
that type of crux. If you look at debt, you
should never compare it to GDP. You know, everyone says
it's one hundred and twenty percent of GDP or whatever
the numbers are. You should always compare debt to wealth
or debt service to GDP. If you look at debt
to wealth, you know it's too high, but it's not critical.
(12:39):
Don't jump out the window. If you look at debt
service to GDP, it's still too high, but we have
plenty from to be able to grow our way out
of this debt. And remember always that it's not debt
that's the problem. Debt is a tool. It's the spread.
If you use the spending to pay people not to work,
(13:00):
that's killed your economy. If you use the spending to
create jobs, output employment by cutting taxes and by increasing
defenses we did under Reagan, it's the biggest boon to
economic growth. You can imagine. So I would tell your son,
you know, don't get overly worried about the debt. It's
not a debt problem. We can grow out of this
(13:20):
debt with good policies very easily, and which shouldn't be
people shouldn't be on the edge of their chairs jumping
out the windows. It's not the biggest problem. We need
a low rate, broad based slat tax, spending restraints, sound money,
minimal regulations, and free trade and this economy will take
care of debt in minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
H w for our life, for appreciate you being with us, sir, my.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Pleasure, Thank you very much for having me, and say
hell Lord to that child of yours.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I will for sure, sir, thank you.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I hope the answer was okay for him.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He'll love it. He's in class for now, but we'll
play it for him.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Yeah, it's the deal.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Thank you, my friends.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
There's a lot of instability overseas, and there's still this
chance that you might have for more years of a
Democrat administration. I know, I don't think it's gonna happen,
but it could happen, and then the printing would be
going on, inflation would rise. What can you do now
to prepare so that you can protect your savings? Gold,
My friends, gold is a smart investment strategy. Just look historically.
(14:23):
I don't just been the last year or ten years,
look last thousand years. Gold is a store of value
and when you invest a portion of your savings in gold,
you are diversifying against the effects of inflation, crazy out
of control spending all of it. And Birch Gold can
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Speaker 5 (15:15):
Two guys walk up to a mic eight. Anything goes
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show Man.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I love Art Laugher.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I wanted someone on who could directly talk about economic
policy and if you are out there, and I think
there are a ton of voters, It's why I think
the economy is the number one issue that most people
care about. I wish we could wave a magic wand
Buck February of twenty twenty. And I think this is
why so many people nostalgically like the Trump era, because
(15:54):
they remember when the economy was rolling and everybody had
more money in their pocket, White, Black, AEE, Asian, Hispanic.
If COVID doesn't happen, I think the economy would have
been absolutely roaring in November of twenty twenty, and there
would not have been the same rig job opportunities with
absentee ballots and all the other things. I think Trump
(16:16):
would have rolled to a victory that would have been
devastating to Democrats. And right now we would have a
non incumbent election. Everything's different. I do think people want
to do over and I think when you heard our laugher,
they are running through all of the economic answers and
policies that Trump put in place that were so incredibly successful.
I think a lot of you believe, and I do
(16:37):
as well, that if Trump gets back in office, he's
basically going to get a do over that COVID took
away from him.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Very likely, and I hope that that comes to pass. Also,
want to take calls because we didn't get a chance
to yet. Yeah, on your reactions to the debate last night,
So we can do that. We don't have a guest
here right, not up next to big no guests. Now
we can take calls. Yes, let's take some calls. Eight
hundred and two, ay, two to two? Light up those lines.
Biggest takeaways from all of you on that debate last night.
(17:06):
I think it's kind of universal that Jade Vance was
very skillful up there and very effective. But if you
think there were some other takeaways, I definitely want to
hear what those were. And I suppose now it's is
it official that Trump? I guess official isn't the right word.
Are we certain that Trump is not going to debate again?
He said he won't. Is that just no longer even
(17:27):
under discussion? Or is it still up in the air.
I think it's still with Trump. You know, he can
change his mind at any point. I think what we're
going to see is the polls are going to continue
to move in Trump's direction, and I think they're going
to say to him, in the same way that he's
not doing this sixty minutes.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Interview, You're going to win. There's no point in doing
any more debates. And the longer it goes, I mean, look,
a lot of you are already gonna voted, So the
impact of a debate, I would argue, at this point
is negligible. I also think buck the reality is everybody's
made up their mind. I don't think there's anything more
people are going to hear that change the things.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
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(18:21):
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Speaker 2 (18:58):
Racked in stacked and Paul here on play and Buck.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And as you hear us talk to folks, remember lines
open off after we take each call, so you know
with the number ras plus we'll get some VIP emails.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Want to bring all of you on.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
This and clanbuck dot com sign up, become a VIP
for that VIP in Fox Access. Let's go to Scott
in Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
What's going on? Skuy, listen to us on k e X.
What do you got up there?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Well, thank you for taking Paul. I was just telling
the screener that I thought JD did a fantastic job
last night. I had just two frustrations between when they
bring up the energy independence I never hear the question
asked them, why did you on day one stop the
Keystone pipeline?
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Why did you do that?
Speaker 6 (19:45):
I don't see that rebuttle. And the second point is
when they bring up the twenty twenty five project. I
would love to have JD turn to Tim and say, Sern,
we do not support that. Please quit bringing that up.
That is not anything the President of right support and
we want to make it very clear about that. And
I don't hear that rebuttal from it. And last by
(20:06):
so that's wells are just a few things I wish
I would hear him say more often.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I hear Scott, those are pretty specific. I mean it's fine.
I don't disagree with your assessment of how he could
have responded those, but I wouldn't put those clay, Thank you, Scott.
I wouldn't put those in the like swing in a miscategory.
I mean, he's got's only so much he's going to
be able to do up there. In response, I mean
the Keystone pipeline thing, it's a very solid argument. It's
(20:34):
been a while. I don't think people pay as much
attention to it, not to say that it's not right
and it wouldn't have been good. I'm just saying it's
not like some of the other moments where I'm like,
you know, when here's what we didn't get to. When
one of the anchors like, can you explain to us,
like why millions of migrants affects housing prices? Supply and demand?
(20:55):
Why do millions of people come into the country need
play to live?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
What does this do to price? That was yeah, well
back it was like JD Vance.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I think I tweeted then that it was uncomfortable how
dumb the moderators were compared to him. I mean, because
on the one hand, I to your point, I just
wanted him to say, Okay, are you familiar with the
concept of supply and demand? When there is more demand
than there is supply, the most basic rule of economics
is prices go up when we have And I thought
(21:33):
he said, and he did a good job, twenty five million.
I think he said at one point illegals in the country.
The other thing, and we haven't mentioned this buck, but
I do think it's important we mentioned how they talked
about Hurricane Helene in the context of climate change. They
also talked about illegal immigration in the context of taking
kids away from their parents. The way that they even
(21:55):
asked that question presupposed and I thought jd. Vance did
a job with it, but it presupposed that deporting illegals
was inhumane because they folks, they didn't say, hey, there's
over four hundred thousand illegal criminals that have entered this country.
There are sixteen thousand rapists, thirteen thousand murderers. Jad Vans
(22:16):
actually did a good job and said, well, I think
we should start with the criminals. He did a good
job pivoting there, but it was will you tear apart
families from their children. He then pointed out that they
are somewhere around three hundred thousand children that we don't
even know where they are. Hopefully they're with their families,
but they are lost as a process of coming across
(22:36):
the border. But it's a good example of again a
rigged question that was set up to try to make
him look bad, whereas most of the Tim Walls questions
were like Senator, I mean, I mean, Governor, you've done
an amazing job in Minnesota. Could you please explain why
you're so good on healthcare? You know, also, in many ways.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I very obvious that the CBS anchors they're not worried
about family separation. And it comes to American citizens prosecutor
for non violent crimes for being obstructing a government proceeding
on January sixth and being held in solitary confinement, that's
family separation. Yeah, solitary confinement separates families. Over a thousand
(23:14):
Americans treated like al Qaeda terrorists because in a vast
majority of the cases they walked into a government building
during a riot and left, and you know, those families
are separated and those lives are destroyed, no concern whatsoever
from the CP And in fact, they cheered that on.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
They want more of that.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
They would like you and me, Clay to be separated
from our families by being thrown into prison for wrong think.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Also I would build on what you just said, separation
of families. JD didn't do it, but a good pivot
there as well. I thought he pivoted pretty well and
talked about criminals and how they were going to be
the first to be deported. Also building on what you said.
But it's even worse than that. We're separating families because
illegals are murdering innocent people, or family relationships are being
(24:02):
ended forever or permanent separatory.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yes, and that's what we should be concerned about, is
protecting American citizens, not concerned with non citizens feelings. If
I have to rank in the priority, that's the way
that I would analyze it. But I thought it was
all yblematic of the unfair questioning that that's the angle
they did it through.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
You have to people have to have some there's some
punishment or else a law means nothing right. And so
you can't tell you're not gonna make money from these
individuals were crossing illegally because they generally don't have any
if you don't detain, if you don't put them through
some kind of ilegal process. But what this is what
we have a wide open border because why not.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Just show up? Just show up, you'll get to stay,
and then you go.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
To these sanctuary jurisdictions and they will give you resources
that are taken from Americans with the threat of imprisonment.
By the way, because that's what taxes are. They'll take
your home if you don't pay your taxes. They'll take
your freedom if you don't pay your income taxes, but
that money also then goes into the two of billions
and billions of dollars of people who, under our own
(25:03):
legal statutes are not allowed to be here. And we're
supposed to be okay with the situation. You know, they'll
they'll lock you up for not paying your taxes. But
you better be willing to give free everything to all
these illegals who show up because they say so. You know,
the law is not the law with them. That much
is obvious.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Dan, and Long Island. What's going on?
Speaker 7 (25:23):
Dan? Well, at a touch base, I listened to you
guys all the time, love the show. Thanks you though
that you normally tell us all the time, Clay, that
you read the time so that we don't have to.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Read it every morning.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
Today, Yeah, today, for the first time I actually perused
through it. I was looking for info on the debate
and there was nothing to be found. I know the
debate was late, but it seemed to be in other
papers and the only blurb was in the front, bottom
quarter and he said you could find me on the website.
Speaker 8 (25:57):
And I just took that as a a signal that
they really knew that they got them bucks kicked.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
Last night and they really had nothing good to say,
so they didn't want to say anything.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Well, thanks for calling in, Dan, and yeah, I read
the New York Times and the Washington Post every morning,
so none of you have to unless you want to.
I will say that one thing I have noticed, Buck,
is most newspapers have.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Crept even earlier and earlier.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
They're so called print deadline, so that it used to
be when I was a kid, I was really upset
because the West Coast sports scores would not be in
the morning newspapers. So if you had a favorite team,
and my favorite team as a kid was Cincinnati Reds
and they're playing let's say the Badgers, you wouldn't get
that score because the print paper deadline. Now, it seems
(26:43):
like the New York Times prints at like four o'clock
in the afternoon. I mean, so they have almost nothing
relating unless it happened really early in the day. They're
like a day behind in the print publication. For us
old people out there who still read the print, that's
why you have to go online. So I'm not trying
to defend them, but I do think that's the function
of the paper deadline.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
We do have a lot of communist ground covered for
our audience. Between you reading the New York Times every
day and me watching Morning Joe as I drink my
crock at coffee in the morning, we we know what
they're putting out there, what Pravda is is trying to
force feed the Democratic.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Well, when I got over to your house and we
were in Miami last week, I walked in and there's
Joe Scarborough staring right back at him from your big
screen television.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
In your living room.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I mean, you're you're not you are you are behind
the enemy lines every day, Dave by the way, Springfield, Springfield, Yeah.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
Hey, clam Buck, Hey, I was just calling in. I
just wanted to say that, Uh, you know, I've been
a lifelong Democrat and I voted Democrat every presidential election
pretty much. And I thought that Advance won the debate
last night, and I was pretty annoyed by the media
(27:58):
a media a media media coverage of Walls winning. And
I just want to say I've been I listened to
Rush Limba, I've been listening to you guys, and I've
become a conservative. And I live in Massachusetts, so I
don't think my vote really matters that much.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
But David. So, first of all, let me ask you
this question.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Thank you for listening, and we like to think that
this can happen, right if you listen to arguments that
over time you can start and say, hey, you know what,
I think that argument's better than the other argument. I've
been willing to be persuaded that I voted incorrectly in
the past. I've an open mind. I think I wish
more voters did. And I understand you're in Massachusetts, which
is a Democrat stronghold, but you can still be very
(28:40):
impactful local elections everything else. How did you vote in
twenty twenty, I'm just kind of curious.
Speaker 9 (28:47):
Oh, I voted for Biden. I actually ran for the
Democratic State Committee and was elected. So I was on
the Democratic State Committee.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
And so what is there any one issue that has
pushed you to being willing to vote Republican over the
last four years? Because I do think while you feel
like you're not, you know, represented necessarily or not that common,
I actually think there are tens of thousands, if not
hundreds of thousands of people listening to us right now
(29:14):
across the country that have had a similar political trajectory
to you. So I'm just kind of curious, what if
there was any one or two things that finally pushed
you to a different direction.
Speaker 9 (29:26):
Well, I when I went to the University of Massachusetts,
I just noticed there was so much government waste. I
don't want my taxpayer dollars going to just wasteful bureaucracy
things that aren't helping the average citizens of Massachusetts or
the country. Immigration is a huge issue. I think it's
completely out of control, and I completely agree with Trump
(29:47):
on immigration. But you know, if Vance was the candidate,
I would be voting for Vance one hundred percent. Despite
his inexperience. I thought he was great last night, and
I see a future of respectful debate and a positive
conservatism that is going to be better for this country
than a road to communism.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, well, thank you for I appreciate you appreciate it. Yeah, yeah,
I was just gonna say I appreciate him calling in.
Uh And you know, look, I know what it's like.
Davi is in the middle Massachusetts, which I think is
the most Democrat state in the entire country by by
red political registration, the blue the bluest I think it is.
It is a little bluer than California. Uh, but that
(30:30):
doesn't mean that you don't have a role to play
as well by trying to make the Democrats more sane
around you, and trying to also provide some camaraderie to
the other conservatives there. I mean in New York City,
I was outnumbered something like eight to one. But you
know Fox News is in New York City. iHeart has
(30:51):
you know Russia Studio, Shawn Studio. I mean in New
York City, So, uh, you know there there are conservatives
even in the bluest of places, and they have a
role playing all this as well.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
We have Owen in Surprise, Arizona Surprise.
Speaker 8 (31:09):
Make sure taking my call, guys, I really appreciate it.
First off, I want to say Arizona's going red this year.
They're not sticking with blue. I'm telling you right now.
I work outside. I work in all retirement communities. I
see these polls out there saying that you know, Kamala
is winning with seniors. Trust me, she's not winning with seniors.
(31:33):
Trust nothing but Trumps signs everywhere. She's not winning. Anyways,
the debate last night, I thought it was great. Vance
he I haven't really seen him speak that much, but wow,
he's a smart guy. I think he's going to be
president one day. I really do. Me and him are
about the same age, so it was kind of It's
kind of inspiring to see someone from my generation get
(31:54):
up there and put on a good show. I mean,
I thought he dominated. I thought the moderators were absolutely horrible.
I thought Walts was nervous and bug eyed, And I
will say that I do respect the I want to
say I respect Walt's when it comes to the unity
that was on display. You know, they shook hands, they
(32:16):
agreed to disagree at times. It was kind of nice.
I feel like the country really needs more of that,
Like we need to have discussions without beating the crap
out of each other. We can agree to disagree. We
should get back to that. As far as the bias
in the for the moderators, I have an easy solution.
Have Rachel Mannow host one debate and have Sean Hannity
(32:39):
post another. I think it's pretty simple. The country's aware
of it. Everyone knows that the media is biased, so
I think that would solve everything. But in reality, we
know that's.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Not going to happen. Thanks for the call.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I actually think Buck my solution has been the Republican
gets to pick the questioner of the Democratmocrat gets to
pick the questioner of the Republican.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Right, well, have you could also ratchet it up or
ratchet it down, depending on you know, respect would be
met with respect and ambush would be met with ambush.
I mean last night CBS, no honest person could watch
what was going on there and not say, yeah, these
anchors are trying to help Walls. It's very you know,
we do this for a living. Like I know, within
the first twenty seconds of a host questioning any guest,
(33:26):
does this host like the person? Are they letting them
speak to the Are they gonna let them speak or
is this an ambush?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know right away?
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Yes, you definitely do. We'll come back in a sec.
We appreciate all the calls out there. I do think
we're getting a lot of responses from people who liked
the civility. Even if they disagreed with Walls, they respected
the fact that it was a disagreement. It wasn't like,
oh my goodness, you're hitler, which is what they have
(33:53):
done to Trump for a long time. And in fact,
some on the left were unhappy with Tim Walls because
they said he wasn't aggressive enough in prosecuting the case,
and he was too middle of the road and likable
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Speaker 5 (35:05):
Have fun with the guys on Sundays, the Sunday Hang podcast,
It's Silly, It's goofy, It's good times. Fight it in
the Clay and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app
or wherever you get your podcasts. Clay Travis Buck Sexton
Show will continue to take some of your calls in
the third hour. Also, we are scheduled to be joined
by Trey Yanks, who has a brand new book out
(35:29):
Live from Israel, where certainly they had an unbelievable day
yesterday with the attack from Iran. Biden has come out Buck,
I don't know if you saw it walking across an
airport tarmac and said that he does not believe that
Israel should attack inside of Iran. So we will see
whether or not Israel listens at all to the United
(35:51):
States or decides that it needs to take action inside
of Iran in a major way. That is certainly something
to be decided. We have the Jewish holiday Rashashan. I
believe that starts tonight, so that may factor in in
terms of how they might respond as well.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
We come back. We'll take some more of your calls.
We'll continue to react to Tim Walls versus JD Vance
last night's VP debate. I got an argument for you.
I saw an emailer out there already asking me, how
do you think the optics and the cosmetics. Nothing from
the arguments itself, just how the guys looked is going
(36:31):
to play out going forward with independent voters. That's part one,
Part two. If you are in Michigan, Wisconsin, or Pennsylvania
where it feels like this race is going to be decided,
you had two Midwestern guys, Tim Walls, JD Vans. Who
do you think more reflected what the Midwest is like
(36:52):
and what that appeal might look like.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
We'll discuss coming back to
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