January 10, 2025 • 36 mins
SCOTUS decision on TikTok – should Elon buy it? How Buck discovered TikTok during Covid. Could TikTok become propaganda? How do you define “media” in today’s era? Reasons YouTube and Google might want TikTok gone.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The second hour, Clay and Buck kicks off. Now, as
we know, Donald Trump was sentenced this morning for the
non crime of a business records ledger issue. The whole
thing we talked about insane. He was sentenced to the
stiff punishment of nothing, no punishment other than they can
(00:23):
still say he is technically a convicted felon, although no
serious person thinks that Donald Trump committed a felony, or
any crime for that matter. I don't know what it
is going to take for Democrats to finally give it
up on this, but in the meantime we'll continue to
follow that, and I think we'll talk to Andy McCarthy
(00:44):
in the third hour about the whole law fair mess.
We've also got our friend Ryan Gerdusky whose podcast is
doing great, a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Of you really enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's putting on his full data nerd hat and going
into everything in the world of politics and sort of
general interest news too. He does a great job with
It's a numbers game. But Clay, I remember the first
time then I came across or heard about TikTok. It
was during the pandemic, actually, so I was at home
(01:15):
and I looked something like a wooly mammoth. Did you
have the full like no haircut thing for a long time?
I think I went four or five. I actually cut
my own hair for a while, which was at what ages? Well,
during the pandemic, Clay, not as like a child.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh, I thought you were like talking about like in college,
like you were living and you know, like I'm saying, what,
everything was shut down? You could nothing shut down here,
shut down for like a month. I went and just
went to get my haircut like a normal person.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So unfair. I should probably share. I have a photo
where I look like, I don't know, I looked like
I grew up in a cave or something or was living.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You couldn't get a haircut in New York.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Absolutely, not for months, like I mean from whatever it
was February, you know, end of February, early March, shutdown
day to June, maybe July. So I mean, think, what
would what would you look like, Clay Travis always very
well quaffed, mister Clay, what would you look like with
no haircut for six months?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Dude? Think about it. I probably looked like I did
in high school. That's why I thought I was going
to get ridiculed for my You know, my kids have
my high school yearbook photo as their backdrop to make
fun of me on their phones, like and Laura does
my wife like if you like their screensaver is my
senior class yearbook photo.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You you and my brother are the same year in
My older brother the same year in school.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And I remember this. There was a time everybody was listening.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
To Dave Matthews playing their Hackey sack, wearing their birken
stocks and uh, and they would they put their hair
behind their ears.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That's right. Super styles guy, that was That was a superstyle.
That was the like I'm preppy, I play soccer and
listen to Dave Matthews and yeah, you know, like that
was the look for a while that we had to
tuck your hair behind the ear. And so I think
it would look something like that. But I still for
people who lived in Red States, what you guys dealt
(03:13):
with in New York and California is like finding out
that someone was in a foreign country because I we
shut my gym buck. My gym was back open, like
by the first week of May, Like they shut down
at Gym's for like six weeks, which was stupid, But
by May one, ish in Tennessee. If you lived in
(03:34):
a normal place, your life was basically back to normal
May one, twenty twenty. Schools opened back up in August
full go. Now. People still had to wear masks. It
was stupid, but it was. There was very little we
COVID existed for like six weeks and then people were like, yeah,
this is stupid, like let's kind of go back to normal.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And New York City, my friend in New York City,
they had metrics for reopening gyms and other things. And
when we hit the metrics after all the waiting, de Blasio,
because he is a vile communist and a little dictator
at heart, just said, yeah, I don't care, We're not
opening them anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So he set and he said, you guys had to
work out in masks, which is still crazy to me
to think about, Like in the gym that you had
to have a mask on. People would come up to
you and yell at you. On the treadmill.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
If you are on a treadmill without a map, think
about that you had to run with your mask on.
It was the dumbest thing in the world. And along
with this and danger, so stupid, bad for you by
the way you're all these fibers and stuff you're in here.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's horrible. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I bring it up because that was when I learned
about TikTok, and I remember the first TikTok video. I'm
getting little nostalgic about TikTok because it might be rip
TikTok here pretty soon thanks to the Supreme Court. Uh well,
actually not the Supreme Court. It's a law that's been
passed and now the Supreme.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Court's weighing in on it.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
But uh it was a shuffle dance which I tried
a little bit during COVID. I did not do very
well with that, so, uh, you know, you know, even
do you know what I'm talking about. That was of
the big things TikTok went viral for in the early days,
teaching people during COVID how to do these little dance
steps at home.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And I did not go through this universe. We were
just not that at home that much. I'm sorry. I'm sorry,
mister German cinephile over here. Hold on you in your
apartment by yourself, were learning how to do dances. This
is what you were doing in your free time.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I was, you know, like I was trying to pick
up a new hobby. Don't worry about whether it was
dancing or not. The point is that was when I
first saw TikTok.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I can't imagine you. First of all, I told you
this when we first started doing the show in June
of twenty one. Sometime that summer. I was up in
New York and you were like, oh, you can come
see my apartment. And I walked in, and I was like,
I would have gone absolutely insane if I lived in
a city and they walked down and I had to
stay in an apartment like you're in a high rise
(05:56):
apartment building. The only reason to live in New York City,
in my opinion, is to experience outside of your apartment
the life of New York City.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, this is why, this is why people decided. Some
people decided to move because they were so upset. I mean,
New York City absent the use of the city is
it feels like a prison, you know, because you have
no you have no land, you have no outdoor space,
you have no freedom. So yeah, no, it was particularly brutal.
I think it was worse in the I think the
lockdown was worse in New York City than it was
(06:26):
honestly anywhere else in the entire I think that's probably
true because at least in La Buying large people had
land like there were a lot of crazy towns.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
But to your point, you're basically in a high rise
prison if you can't leave your apartment and a lot
of people you don't even have You did not have
outdoor air, like you didn't have like a balcony where
you could even go outside and like get fresh air.
Like it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yes, and uh and I couldn't even get a haircut
for months, so I managed to buy myself a pair
of like Crayola scissors off of Amazon and then just
sit there and try to cut my hair so it
wouldn't be so long as in my eyes anyway, Ah, memories,
memory is TikTok. That's how I learned about it. And
then all of a sudden you get there's some there's
some cool content on there. I'll tell you there's this
guy who takes a lot of you. You've probably if
(07:09):
you haven't seen this. I think his name is Donnie
Dust and he takes like tools and someone will say,
can you make a tomahawk with you know, a stick
in a rock? And he just does it right in
front of you. It's amazing. There's some cool stuff on there.
Problem is it's owned by China and it's a Chinese
spying app or whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Right, that's the problem. That's why everyone's also freaked out
about this.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So Supreme Court looks like they're going to uphold the
law after oral arguments this morning, after both Republicans and
Democrats had decided that there was a national security risk
from TikTok, and so they passed this law that said
it has to be sold or will be basically shut
down in the United States. So really it seems like
(07:51):
they got to find a buyer for it. Here, Clay, So,
do you know anybody we got to keep this thing alive.
There is so much great cooking content and actually a
lot of good fitness content on TikTok as well.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'll tell you. I know, everyone just thinks that they're
trying to steal all your data for China. But at
least you can get abs in the process. I So
here's a Ali just texted us producer Ali that Elon
should buy it. So here is the challenge as I
see it. And we had an actual discussion about this yesterday,
because I don't think this is an easy answer. You
(08:25):
believe that it should basically exist as is, right, is
a rough way of describing your position. My position is,
I actually do not believe that China should be able
to own this company, which I believe is more powerful
as a media entity than the New York Times is,
than the Washington Post is, than Fox News is, than
(08:47):
the Wall Street Journal is, whatever media outlet you enjoy consuming.
And we would never allow the four things that I
just ticked through to be owned by a foreigner because
of the impact that it could have. So I think,
and you were just kind of hitting at this, I
think that TikTok should be forced to divest itself of
Chinese ownership of its US based assets. And then the
(09:09):
question beyond that becomes, Okay, who would buy it? And
I want an Elon Musk like figure to buy TikTok
because all I want them to do is do the
same thing that now Facebook says it's doing and that
Twitter does, which is just have a content neutral policy
in place where the algorithm doesn't favor anything in particular
(09:30):
of a political bent, and everybody gets a fair playing field.
That's my ideal world for where we could go with TikTok.
Now here's the challenge. The value of TikTok I would
think buck as it inches closer to this banning date,
which is what like January nineteenth, what's the day when
it would And for people who are like, what does
(09:51):
a band look like? My understanding and correct me if
I'm wrong on this is basically the app would no
longer be able to update, and therefore eventually becomes unusable
on iPhones or androids or whatever else because without being
able to update, bugs takeover, it becomes less efficient all
those things.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yes, and I mean TikTok It's January nineteenth is the date,
and it's a big platform. I mean, it claims to
have a billion monthly active users globally and claims to
have one hundred and fifty million monthly active users in
the United States. That seems I mean, I don't see
how that's possible, considering that would mean that half the
(10:33):
country is basically on using TikTok at least once a month.
That number strikes me as not really possible. But this
is the number that they This is the number that
they put out there officially. I mean, go Google it,
you'll find you'll find that that's what they say. I
think it's interesting because, for one thing, it's because China
owns this. If this was owned by Sweden or the
(10:56):
UK or you know, France or something, I don't think
that they're be this issue. So we clearly put China
in a different category of national security concern. And I've
always thought that the spying components of this, or the
ability to spy with this, is a little bit overblown,
considering that TikTok is actually to the TikTok that we
(11:18):
use is based in the US and the servers are
based in the US.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And people say, well, they could route it all back
to China.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, the Chinese can hack into a lot of things,
and they have hacked into a lot of things anyway.
But here we have a major social media platform that
seems ripe for the taking from somebody with very deep pockets,
and I would just love for it to be this
is kind of my.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Takeaway on a clay.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I would love for this to be an opportunity to
once again push the Internet more toward freedom insanity, which
is what we've seen with X and now some up
with Facebook. I would say this too. On the Facebook
part of this, which is huge as you all know
that Facebook is moving away from Clay said no more
DEI programs.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Now they're going to be far more friendly to conservatives
into politics and the free speech stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But is it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Opportunistic by Zuckerberg, Yeah, of course, But is it still
the direction I want Zuckerberg going in?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yes? So do you think Zuckerberg go Trump if you
had to bet? That's so interesting? Yes? I think.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
But I don't think he thinks of himself as a Republican.
I just think I think he recognizes Kamalo as a
moron and that the whole Democrat campaign was a lie,
that Diden the whole thing was a lie, and that
Kamala's competent was a lie. And I think a lot
of the tech bros are in that category. They're not
ideologically we'd even get into some of this on some
of the immigration stuff. There's some disputes on the right.
(12:44):
Maybe we'll talk more about that another time. A lot
of the tech bros are not ideologically right wing, but
they are ideologically results in common sense aligned, and that
meant a rejection of the Democrats in this election.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I agree with you. I think Bezos and Zuckerberg in
their own private voting actually both voted Trump. I really do.
And by the way, on TikTok, what percentage of our
audience that is listening to us right now? You talked
about the sheer number that they claim. What percentage of
this audience has a TikTok account? I would actually love
to hear from people if you are active on TikTok
(13:21):
and listening to us, what do you think should happen?
And I'm not sure we will get a single call,
by the way, from many of you're listening to us,
is I'm not sure we'll get a single call from
that when he uses TikTok frequently. I could be completely wrong,
but I would love to hear from people if TikTok
is your preferred social media site because eight hundred and
two A two two eight A two what do you
(13:41):
think as a user should happen here? And also do
you use it? Because one of the things we think
about a lot on this show is how do we
reach audiences in so many different places? Because it we're
in such a unique world now old school. When Rush
started this show, he build built a radio universe. There
(14:01):
was no podcasting. There was no video on demand that
you could watch on YouTube of sit down interviews. It
was a very different media environment. So we're trying to
be everywhere, and I'm just curious how many people that
are listening to us right now TikTok is your preferred
social media platform, and what do you think should happen
Because the politics on this book are actually pretty fascinating.
(14:24):
Trump is against a band so and Biden is trying
to ban it. So I do think this doesn't line
itself up naturally with Republicans believe X and Democrats believe
why as it pertains to what should happen for TikTok,
which is why I think it's one of the most
interesting stories out there right now.
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Speaker 4 (15:32):
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Speaker 2 (15:46):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We have
got a lot of reaction actually from you guys out
there on TikTok and Tyrell in New Mexico. You are
a big time TikTok user. What do you think should happen?
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Well, here's the thing. I get the whole like being
afraid that China is you know, spine on and stuff,
But like you said, they do that all the time anyways.
I mean they've even messed with our waste water plants
and we were able to stop that. That was actually
in an Albuquerque that that happened so and so, by
(16:26):
the way, don't don't set your waste water plants stuff
up to the internet. But uh so they're able to
do that, so it doesn't matter. It's TikTok. Iok. I
look at like you said, dance videos and stuff. But
me so, I'm a machinist by trade, and I've actually
learned a lot of tricks machinist tricks on TikTok because
I deal with a lot older SEE and C machines
(16:47):
and they're no longer in the States, most of them.
But I can find overseas videos on TikTok about these machines.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm with you, Jar, I mean, I have learned my
reverse seer tech and my ability to perfectly season a
steak thanks to TikTok is I'm like Emerald Lagasi level
at this point. I'm not trying to be immodest, but
I mean, I make a really mean steak thanks to TikTok.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Not to mention you're incredible dancer now thanks to TikTok. Wow,
you know you know just I can't stop thinking about
you in that apartment by yourself dancing TikTok dance moves
like I would give anything the feet I get my
heart rate? Are their videos of you doing dance moves
(17:33):
to TikTok? Does this exist anywhere? Is there any evidence?
I can't believe you admitted to this, Like I can't
stop laughing about you just doing step. There's like step aerobics.
You might as well have a thigh baster getting loose
on your couch. You would choose and summers. I just
I can't. I can't stop laughing about this.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
All right, No one wants to go through the hassle
of changing their cell phone service provider.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
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bunch of callers want to weigh in on the TikTok situation.
(18:55):
It is Ray, I were just talking about this. It's
a big deal for a massive social media platform to
be told you got to be sold or you're shutting
down because we don't like the.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Parent company that has, you know, ownership of this entity.
It's because it's in China.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
It's interesting. This is kind of new territory in a
lot of ways. Let's take some of these calls. We
get to Jacob in Nebraska, old forty four year old Republican,
what have you got for us?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Jacob, Hey, hap'pter be and gentlemen, So I did just
happen calling in on this. I got rid of all
social media during the pandemic. It was just it was
just too much, so completely took myself off all of it.
I jump ahead a few years. I have an eleven
year old daughter now. She wanted to get onto TikTok, Facebook, Snapchat,
(19:50):
all of those. My only stipulation was, I have to
be honest, right, I have to be able to monitor.
So it was able to well. As I'm getting more
and more into TikTok, you could actually learn quite a
bit based off kind of what you're where, You're following,
what you're doing, what you're liking. So far, I am really,
(20:11):
really really into home setting and I'm learning how to
build a new greenhouse. And I've also learned quite a
bit about ducks versus chickens. Ducks are hardier, their eggs
are healthier, they're cleaner. As far as the whole China thing,
(20:32):
you know, if they want to find out information, they're
going to find it out, whether or not they own
an half or not.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, I guess you know.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
First of all, Jacob, I appreciate that you know you
you've had these interesting experiences with TikTok. I have the
same thing. I've actually learned a lot from it. I
don't really post on it It's funny. It's the only
social media platform Clay that I consume not for work. Yeah, Like,
I don't use it for work. I just kind of
use it to if you want to kill time. If
you're stuck in like an airport, you know, waiting area
(21:01):
for an hour, you sit there, you scrow through TikTok.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Your brain just goes on autopilot. You won't even realize
what's going on.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
But I also think that the the risks of the
Chinese exploitation of TikTok have never been explained to me
in a way where I find it compelling. That's that's
my Uh, they're gonna know what you like and don't like.
I think what people get into Clay a little bit
more here is are And this goes to the media
angle that you've brought up, which is okay. But a
foreign country can shift perception in a sense, or can
(21:32):
can begin to have influence at a mass level over
how people view issues and things. So, but that's more
of a propaganda component than a spying component. So let
me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Then. My take is I'm less concerned about, uh, the
Chinese ownership than the fact that China restricts American companies
from being able to compete in its markets, but we
aren't restricted China from being able to compete in our markets.
And the example I would use is YouTube doesn't have
(22:05):
access to China. Google doesn't have access to China. Twitter
doesn't have access to China. Facebook doesn't have access to China.
All of those companies effectively have clones that exist in China,
and those are Chinese owned companies that then create business
create opportunities there. My big thing is if we don't
(22:26):
have mutuality of competition in the same way that we
have similar in theory tariffs going back and forth, try
to create free trade, we don't have free big tech trade,
and so I don't want China building huge businesses in
the United States and not allowing the United States to
do the same in the media space.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
See.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I find that argument compelling and I agree.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
With that that as far as I know, though, it
has nothing to do with why they're forcing the sale, right,
this isn't about unfair Chinese trade practice.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Well, what policy has been that they would be able
to stay open if they had United States ownership, So
the company would still exist as it is if they sold,
and they don't have to sell the whole company. They
just have to sell the US assets.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I mean, but they have said TikTok is based in
I think California, and they have said that that TikTok
that you operate, you deal with in America is run
by people who live in America, by US citizens on
US servers, on you know, it's about just foreign ownership, right,
It's you know, it's like the Byte Dance, Right, it's
(23:33):
byt dances.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
The majority stake of TikTok.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And you sit there, you say, okay, So they could
certainly try to influence the US based company, but also
how much are they really going to do that? What
kind of problems would that cause for them if that
came out? Like I just I don't see what is it?
Me and Jamal Bowman, right, were the only.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Job I Actually, I think your argument is strong in this.
You now, maybe it's gonna change because Trump won. Certainly
we're seeing a change at Facebook and we've seen a
change at Twitter. YouTube is horribly bal biased in favor
of the left right, and that's why Rumble came to
exist because you and I remember they took down our
(24:15):
interview with Rand Paul. They took down our interview with
Donald Trump. They wouldn't allow us to share the interview
that we did with both elected officials on YouTube in
the last couple Thank you for reminding me of what
has been my most compelling argument. I haven't brought this yet,
but it's absolutely true, which is that Google is a
much bigger threat to all of you listening to this
right now. Google is a much bigger threat to your freedoms,
(24:37):
your constitutional rights than anything TikTok has been up to.
I can assure you of that.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Okay, the enemy within is far more concerning to me
than what Beijing can do working through a proxy that
has a lot of people, you know, posting content that's
pretty No, it's Americans posting the content too. This Like
I know, I've actually and that a couple of TikTok influencers,
Like I know some of these people, and you know
(25:04):
they're not getting their marching instructions from China.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
You know, this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It's it's not like a edity full of Chinese nationals
is trying to explain American politics to us. It's like
kids who grew up in Cincinnati who are doing dance
and and you know, teaching.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Buck how to dance in his in his apartment by himself.
I will say that my solution here, which seems like
a very reasonable one. In addition to Buck having to
go on TikTok and post the dance himself that he
was learning, which is hysterical to me, I think the
easy solution is that there is American ownership of TikTok
based company. And if I just think about this rationally,
(25:41):
if I owned substantial assets in TikTok America and those
assets are worth let's say, I don't think it's crazy
one hundred billion dollars, right. I don't think that's a
crazy dollar figure to think that TikTok based on its
penetration market size, the things that we've been talking about,
and even in this audience, so we're going to take
some more your calls. A lot of you were on TikTok,
(26:03):
I don't think it's crazy to think that's one hundred
billion dollar company. Typically, if your company faces a choice
between hey, that one hundred billion dollar valuation can vanish,
or you can get your money and sell it to
someone else, the rational outcome here is that they would
sell this asset to someone else in America, and it
(26:25):
would continue to run just a few things.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I mean, now, to be fair, this was put out
by by TikTok, but I don't think, you know, putting
out lies that would be disprovable would not serve their
interest in this in this matter. But TikTok's parent company,
byte Dance, was founded by Chinese entrepreneurs, but roughly sixty
percent of the company is owned by global institutional investors
(26:48):
like the Carlisle Group, General Atlantic, Susquehanna International. An additional
twenty percent of the company is owned by Bytdance employees
around the world, including nearly seven thousand Americans. Remaining twenty
percent is owned by the company's founder, who is a
private individual not part of any state or government entergy.
Now I think you can push back. I mean, if
if the twenty percent is owned by a guy in China,
(27:10):
the Chinese government gets to call the shots with that
twenty percent. To be clear, there's no such thing as
a separation of public and private in China. So that's
where the TikTok fact sheet here, you know, leaves a
little bit out, but you know, just to show some
of what you know, some of what's on here seems
to be to me at least indicating that it has more.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Diverse ownership than people really people realize.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Look, I just I always think of the clay of
the precedent that these kinds of things set, and to say,
I don't like the ownership of this company, so it
has to be you know, because it's partially foreign, and
so it has to be sold. You know, this is
a This is a government intrusion on the marketplace. This
is not a marketplace first mechanism. And to meybe just
(27:55):
remember what the other side likes to do when they
can just call the shots on things.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, let me also point this out because I think
it's a Again, this is why I don't think this
lines up in a typical left right dynamic. In fact,
I think you're likely to see some form of left
and right agreement as to whether or not the government
can can ban TikTok. I think there'll be different different resolutions,
(28:19):
different opinions that are drafted from a variety of perspectives.
Let me just ask you this, because this is this
is ultimately what I find to be the crux of
the case. How do you define media in today's day
and age? And that's a big, big picture question. And
let's analogize here. If the New York Times, which you
(28:40):
and I agree is a super left wing biased company,
put itself on the market and instead of the Sulzberger family,
which I think owns it in the New York City area,
instead of that, a Chinese based company bought The New
York Times, I think everybody would say, that's unacceptable. We're
not going to allow that, right, So that would be
(29:01):
And by the way, it could be a Wall Street Journal,
it could be Fox News, it could be choose your defined,
definite media outlet. Where does TikTok fall in the media universe,
because I think most of you out there would say, yeah,
the Wall Street Journal can't be owned by a foreigner.
This is why, to a large extent, Ruper Murdoch became
an American citizen is because American media ownership rules require
(29:26):
that American citizens own our media companies, because otherwise the
fear is that you get George Soros and you have
some guy come in and you start to diabolically pull streams.
So I think that's the question, where does TikTok rank
on the media flowchart? Because that also factors in here.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Well, what you're also seeing though, is in the digital era,
perhaps more so than ever, information is a national security issue.
And I don't mean classified information. I mean the distribution
of information. I mean mass media. Shaping perception at scale
is now a national security concern because if you can
(30:04):
influence people, especially let's say, if you're China, you want
to influence US population.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Do we really care about Taiwan? Is Taiwan really are?
You know?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Is that really something we need to be so concerned about?
Now you could say that that will take time, and yeah, well,
China thinks in long term, and there's a lot of
ways that you can manipulate public opinion. You can kind
of manufacture a consensus of sorts. So that's that's you.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Know, you see what I mean?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yes, No, I think it's it's we can all understand, Okay,
you can't have a company selling missiles like advanced missile
technology to Iran.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
We understand that, right, clear national security implication.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Now it's we can't have a company that does a
lot of US generated content that's too popular because their
algorithm that they use may shift perception broadly on political
issues in a way that is not advantageous.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
To the US. Do you see this. I mean, I
think it kind of gets crystallized. I think you've talked
about this before on the show. You can be watching CNN,
which is allowed to broadcast in China, and when they
discuss anything China related that they don't like, the television
just goes black. Like you know, CNN International Watch.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, yeah, you also like all you have to know
about seeing an international is that the play it in
countries where they absolutely hate America.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Tells you a lot about CNN.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
You turn it on, you go, oh, America is the
bad guy according to CNN International.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
A lot of that, but it is interesting right to
think about they basically individual segments have Chinese censors who
will just block it out. You can't get you know,
the site that I sold to Fox, you can't get
out kick in China. We're banned that you cannot pull Now.
I know people have VPNs and they get smart and
they figure out a way to pull it up. But
I mean, it's a sports focused website, but we've been
(31:49):
critical of China to such an extent associated with sports,
you can't even pull it up.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I also just think, you know, people, people have become
very distrustful of big pharma, for example, and in the
post COVID shot era. I think there's more reason than
ever for that, although Big Farmer actually does do a
lot of important things which I like to remind everybody of.
Like everyone people like their stating drugs. I mean, there's
really important stuff that's being done. People like their cancer
drugs when they really need them. You know, there's it's
(32:16):
not just a downside with with big pharma, big media,
I mean, or big social media you can't trust you
look at like Google and YouTube and all this.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think they want TikTok on. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I think that's certainly true because they like thet off
members of Congress. Yeah, I think they've bought off members
of Congress. Google look at the Google money, and I
think on both sides, man, Google is the most powerful
company in the world right now, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I think that's true. We'll come back, We'll take some
more of your calls. I'm actually impressed at how many
of you are committed to using TikTok even from a
variety of perspectives. Eight hundred and two A two two
eight A two. Maybe one of you has seen buck
dancing imagine living in a country under constant assault from
all sides, having to endure thousands of missile attacks, evacuating
the bomb shelters on a regular basis, overall thread of
terror always hovering everywhere you go. That's what it's like
(33:07):
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Speaker 4 (34:09):
Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that you unite.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Us all each day. Spend time with Clay and find
them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show, closing up
the shop here. We've got a couple of guests coming
your way in the third hour, Andy McCarthy on the
end of Trump lawfair, the unconditional discharge that occurred in
the New York City courtroom. Just Judge merchand what does
he make of all of this. He will join us
(34:45):
top of the next hour, and then our buddy Ryan Kurdusky,
who is now a part of the Clay and Buck
podcast network, which is just doing gangbuster numbers. By the way,
you guys are really diving into so many of the
different different shows out there, and that is fabulous to see.
We'll break down and discuss all of that. We're gonna
continue deluged with emails from you guys who are on TikTok,
(35:09):
and the responses are super interesting. And for the most part,
what's interesting to me, Buck is most people aren't on
there for current events, at least reaching out to us
and politics. It's whatever particular niche you are interested in,
you are getting served videos from that niche. So for Buck,
it might be new dance moves. For some of you
(35:31):
out there, it might be you know, how do you
build or frame a new home?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Or it might be firearms tips and room clearing play
or edge weapons tactics in close corners. Okay, don't don't
pigeonhole me into the shuffle dance only I think.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's just does Carrie know about your dance moves? Is this?
I know she was just talking to a soft air here.
Is she aware before Carrie was in the picture? Okay,
you know, has she seen the moves? Has she seen
the moves? That's the question. You're gonna have to break
these out at the inaugural parties. Are there gonna be
like you gonna be leading a slide show and out.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Some shuffle dance at the Trump Ball? Maybe now, maybe,
if the people demand it, it could happen.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
You never know.
Speaker 6 (36:12):
Well.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
By the way, go subscribe Crocket Coffee Buck. We'll send
you a private dance tutorial. You can go to Crocketcoffee
dot com right now. Sign up's coffee that loves America,
loves America as much as Buck loves line dancing. Uh,
you go to Crocket Coffee dot com. I'll sign books
a lot of snow here. We're gonna end up with
like six or eight inches of snow. I'm gonna be
sitting around watching football signing books. They'll be going out
(36:34):
to you on Monday for everybody who uses code book
Crocketcoffee dot Com. We come back Trump. Waffair will also
ask Andy what he thinks about the TikTok Supreme Court
case that's next
The second hour, Clay and Buck kicks off. Now, as
we know, Donald Trump was sentenced this morning for the
non crime of a business records ledger issue. The whole
thing we talked about insane. He was sentenced to the
stiff punishment of nothing, no punishment other than they can
(00:23):
still say he is technically a convicted felon, although no
serious person thinks that Donald Trump committed a felony, or
any crime for that matter. I don't know what it
is going to take for Democrats to finally give it
up on this, but in the meantime we'll continue to
follow that, and I think we'll talk to Andy McCarthy
(00:44):
in the third hour about the whole law fair mess.
We've also got our friend Ryan Gerdusky whose podcast is
doing great, a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Of you really enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's putting on his full data nerd hat and going
into everything in the world of politics and sort of
general interest news too. He does a great job with
It's a numbers game. But Clay, I remember the first
time then I came across or heard about TikTok. It
was during the pandemic, actually, so I was at home
(01:15):
and I looked something like a wooly mammoth. Did you
have the full like no haircut thing for a long time?
I think I went four or five. I actually cut
my own hair for a while, which was at what ages? Well,
during the pandemic, Clay, not as like a child.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh, I thought you were like talking about like in college,
like you were living and you know, like I'm saying, what,
everything was shut down? You could nothing shut down here,
shut down for like a month. I went and just
went to get my haircut like a normal person.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So unfair. I should probably share. I have a photo
where I look like, I don't know, I looked like
I grew up in a cave or something or was living.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You couldn't get a haircut in New York.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Absolutely, not for months, like I mean from whatever it
was February, you know, end of February, early March, shutdown
day to June, maybe July. So I mean, think, what
would what would you look like, Clay Travis always very
well quaffed, mister Clay, what would you look like with
no haircut for six months?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Dude? Think about it. I probably looked like I did
in high school. That's why I thought I was going
to get ridiculed for my You know, my kids have
my high school yearbook photo as their backdrop to make
fun of me on their phones, like and Laura does
my wife like if you like their screensaver is my
senior class yearbook photo.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You you and my brother are the same year in
My older brother the same year in school.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And I remember this. There was a time everybody was listening.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
To Dave Matthews playing their Hackey sack, wearing their birken
stocks and uh, and they would they put their hair
behind their ears.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That's right. Super styles guy, that was That was a superstyle.
That was the like I'm preppy, I play soccer and
listen to Dave Matthews and yeah, you know, like that
was the look for a while that we had to
tuck your hair behind the ear. And so I think
it would look something like that. But I still for
people who lived in Red States, what you guys dealt
(03:13):
with in New York and California is like finding out
that someone was in a foreign country because I we
shut my gym buck. My gym was back open, like
by the first week of May, Like they shut down
at Gym's for like six weeks, which was stupid, But
by May one, ish in Tennessee. If you lived in
(03:34):
a normal place, your life was basically back to normal
May one, twenty twenty. Schools opened back up in August
full go. Now. People still had to wear masks. It
was stupid, but it was. There was very little we
COVID existed for like six weeks and then people were like, yeah,
this is stupid, like let's kind of go back to normal.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And New York City, my friend in New York City,
they had metrics for reopening gyms and other things. And
when we hit the metrics after all the waiting, de Blasio,
because he is a vile communist and a little dictator
at heart, just said, yeah, I don't care, We're not
opening them anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So he set and he said, you guys had to
work out in masks, which is still crazy to me
to think about, Like in the gym that you had
to have a mask on. People would come up to
you and yell at you. On the treadmill.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
If you are on a treadmill without a map, think
about that you had to run with your mask on.
It was the dumbest thing in the world. And along
with this and danger, so stupid, bad for you by
the way you're all these fibers and stuff you're in here.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's horrible. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I bring it up because that was when I learned
about TikTok, and I remember the first TikTok video. I'm
getting little nostalgic about TikTok because it might be rip
TikTok here pretty soon thanks to the Supreme Court. Uh well,
actually not the Supreme Court. It's a law that's been
passed and now the Supreme.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Court's weighing in on it.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
But uh it was a shuffle dance which I tried
a little bit during COVID. I did not do very
well with that, so, uh, you know, you know, even
do you know what I'm talking about. That was of
the big things TikTok went viral for in the early days,
teaching people during COVID how to do these little dance
steps at home.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And I did not go through this universe. We were
just not that at home that much. I'm sorry. I'm sorry,
mister German cinephile over here. Hold on you in your
apartment by yourself, were learning how to do dances. This
is what you were doing in your free time.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I was, you know, like I was trying to pick
up a new hobby. Don't worry about whether it was
dancing or not. The point is that was when I
first saw TikTok.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I can't imagine you. First of all, I told you
this when we first started doing the show in June
of twenty one. Sometime that summer. I was up in
New York and you were like, oh, you can come
see my apartment. And I walked in, and I was like,
I would have gone absolutely insane if I lived in
a city and they walked down and I had to
stay in an apartment like you're in a high rise
(05:56):
apartment building. The only reason to live in New York City,
in my opinion, is to experience outside of your apartment
the life of New York City.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well, this is why, this is why people decided. Some
people decided to move because they were so upset. I mean,
New York City absent the use of the city is
it feels like a prison, you know, because you have
no you have no land, you have no outdoor space,
you have no freedom. So yeah, no, it was particularly brutal.
I think it was worse in the I think the
lockdown was worse in New York City than it was
(06:26):
honestly anywhere else in the entire I think that's probably
true because at least in La Buying large people had
land like there were a lot of crazy towns.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
But to your point, you're basically in a high rise
prison if you can't leave your apartment and a lot
of people you don't even have You did not have
outdoor air, like you didn't have like a balcony where
you could even go outside and like get fresh air.
Like it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yes, and uh and I couldn't even get a haircut
for months, so I managed to buy myself a pair
of like Crayola scissors off of Amazon and then just
sit there and try to cut my hair so it
wouldn't be so long as in my eyes anyway, Ah, memories,
memory is TikTok. That's how I learned about it. And
then all of a sudden you get there's some there's
some cool content on there. I'll tell you there's this
guy who takes a lot of you. You've probably if
(07:09):
you haven't seen this. I think his name is Donnie
Dust and he takes like tools and someone will say,
can you make a tomahawk with you know, a stick
in a rock? And he just does it right in
front of you. It's amazing. There's some cool stuff on there.
Problem is it's owned by China and it's a Chinese
spying app or whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Right, that's the problem. That's why everyone's also freaked out
about this.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So Supreme Court looks like they're going to uphold the
law after oral arguments this morning, after both Republicans and
Democrats had decided that there was a national security risk
from TikTok, and so they passed this law that said
it has to be sold or will be basically shut
down in the United States. So really it seems like
(07:51):
they got to find a buyer for it. Here, Clay, So,
do you know anybody we got to keep this thing alive.
There is so much great cooking content and actually a
lot of good fitness content on TikTok as well.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'll tell you. I know, everyone just thinks that they're
trying to steal all your data for China. But at
least you can get abs in the process. I So
here's a Ali just texted us producer Ali that Elon
should buy it. So here is the challenge as I
see it. And we had an actual discussion about this yesterday,
because I don't think this is an easy answer. You
(08:25):
believe that it should basically exist as is, right, is
a rough way of describing your position. My position is,
I actually do not believe that China should be able
to own this company, which I believe is more powerful
as a media entity than the New York Times is,
than the Washington Post is, than Fox News is, than
(08:47):
the Wall Street Journal is, whatever media outlet you enjoy consuming.
And we would never allow the four things that I
just ticked through to be owned by a foreigner because
of the impact that it could have. So I think,
and you were just kind of hitting at this, I
think that TikTok should be forced to divest itself of
Chinese ownership of its US based assets. And then the
(09:09):
question beyond that becomes, Okay, who would buy it? And
I want an Elon Musk like figure to buy TikTok
because all I want them to do is do the
same thing that now Facebook says it's doing and that
Twitter does, which is just have a content neutral policy
in place where the algorithm doesn't favor anything in particular
(09:30):
of a political bent, and everybody gets a fair playing field.
That's my ideal world for where we could go with TikTok.
Now here's the challenge. The value of TikTok I would
think buck as it inches closer to this banning date,
which is what like January nineteenth, what's the day when
it would And for people who are like, what does
(09:51):
a band look like? My understanding and correct me if
I'm wrong on this is basically the app would no
longer be able to update, and therefore eventually becomes unusable
on iPhones or androids or whatever else because without being
able to update, bugs takeover, it becomes less efficient all
those things.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yes, and I mean TikTok It's January nineteenth is the date,
and it's a big platform. I mean, it claims to
have a billion monthly active users globally and claims to
have one hundred and fifty million monthly active users in
the United States. That seems I mean, I don't see
how that's possible, considering that would mean that half the
(10:33):
country is basically on using TikTok at least once a month.
That number strikes me as not really possible. But this
is the number that they This is the number that
they put out there officially. I mean, go Google it,
you'll find you'll find that that's what they say. I
think it's interesting because, for one thing, it's because China
owns this. If this was owned by Sweden or the
(10:56):
UK or you know, France or something, I don't think
that they're be this issue. So we clearly put China
in a different category of national security concern. And I've
always thought that the spying components of this, or the
ability to spy with this, is a little bit overblown,
considering that TikTok is actually to the TikTok that we
(11:18):
use is based in the US and the servers are
based in the US.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And people say, well, they could route it all back
to China.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, the Chinese can hack into a lot of things,
and they have hacked into a lot of things anyway.
But here we have a major social media platform that
seems ripe for the taking from somebody with very deep pockets,
and I would just love for it to be this
is kind of my.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Takeaway on a clay.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I would love for this to be an opportunity to
once again push the Internet more toward freedom insanity, which
is what we've seen with X and now some up
with Facebook. I would say this too. On the Facebook
part of this, which is huge as you all know
that Facebook is moving away from Clay said no more
DEI programs.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Now they're going to be far more friendly to conservatives
into politics and the free speech stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But is it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Opportunistic by Zuckerberg, Yeah, of course, But is it still
the direction I want Zuckerberg going in?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yes? So do you think Zuckerberg go Trump if you
had to bet? That's so interesting? Yes? I think.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
But I don't think he thinks of himself as a Republican.
I just think I think he recognizes Kamalo as a
moron and that the whole Democrat campaign was a lie,
that Diden the whole thing was a lie, and that
Kamala's competent was a lie. And I think a lot
of the tech bros are in that category. They're not
ideologically we'd even get into some of this on some
of the immigration stuff. There's some disputes on the right.
(12:44):
Maybe we'll talk more about that another time. A lot
of the tech bros are not ideologically right wing, but
they are ideologically results in common sense aligned, and that
meant a rejection of the Democrats in this election.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I agree with you. I think Bezos and Zuckerberg in
their own private voting actually both voted Trump. I really do.
And by the way, on TikTok, what percentage of our
audience that is listening to us right now? You talked
about the sheer number that they claim. What percentage of
this audience has a TikTok account? I would actually love
to hear from people if you are active on TikTok
(13:21):
and listening to us, what do you think should happen?
And I'm not sure we will get a single call,
by the way, from many of you're listening to us,
is I'm not sure we'll get a single call from
that when he uses TikTok frequently. I could be completely wrong,
but I would love to hear from people if TikTok
is your preferred social media site because eight hundred and
two A two two eight A two what do you
(13:41):
think as a user should happen here? And also do
you use it? Because one of the things we think
about a lot on this show is how do we
reach audiences in so many different places? Because it we're
in such a unique world now old school. When Rush
started this show, he build built a radio universe. There
(14:01):
was no podcasting. There was no video on demand that
you could watch on YouTube of sit down interviews. It
was a very different media environment. So we're trying to
be everywhere, and I'm just curious how many people that
are listening to us right now TikTok is your preferred
social media platform, and what do you think should happen
Because the politics on this book are actually pretty fascinating.
(14:24):
Trump is against a band so and Biden is trying
to ban it. So I do think this doesn't line
itself up naturally with Republicans believe X and Democrats believe
why as it pertains to what should happen for TikTok,
which is why I think it's one of the most
interesting stories out there right now.
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Speaker 4 (15:32):
Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that you unite.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Us all each day. Spend time with Clay and Boy.
Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. We have
got a lot of reaction actually from you guys out
there on TikTok and Tyrell in New Mexico. You are
a big time TikTok user. What do you think should happen?
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Well, here's the thing. I get the whole like being
afraid that China is you know, spine on and stuff,
But like you said, they do that all the time anyways.
I mean they've even messed with our waste water plants
and we were able to stop that. That was actually
in an Albuquerque that that happened so and so, by
(16:26):
the way, don't don't set your waste water plants stuff
up to the internet. But uh so they're able to
do that, so it doesn't matter. It's TikTok. Iok. I
look at like you said, dance videos and stuff. But
me so, I'm a machinist by trade, and I've actually
learned a lot of tricks machinist tricks on TikTok because
I deal with a lot older SEE and C machines
(16:47):
and they're no longer in the States, most of them.
But I can find overseas videos on TikTok about these machines.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm with you, Jar, I mean, I have learned my
reverse seer tech and my ability to perfectly season a
steak thanks to TikTok is I'm like Emerald Lagasi level
at this point. I'm not trying to be immodest, but
I mean, I make a really mean steak thanks to TikTok.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Not to mention you're incredible dancer now thanks to TikTok. Wow,
you know you know just I can't stop thinking about
you in that apartment by yourself dancing TikTok dance moves
like I would give anything the feet I get my
heart rate? Are their videos of you doing dance moves
(17:33):
to TikTok? Does this exist anywhere? Is there any evidence?
I can't believe you admitted to this, Like I can't
stop laughing about you just doing step. There's like step aerobics.
You might as well have a thigh baster getting loose
on your couch. You would choose and summers. I just
I can't. I can't stop laughing about this.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
All right, No one wants to go through the hassle
of changing their cell phone service provider.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
But where were you going to do that? What's the
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bunch of callers want to weigh in on the TikTok situation.
(18:55):
It is Ray, I were just talking about this. It's
a big deal for a massive social media platform to
be told you got to be sold or you're shutting
down because we don't like the.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Parent company that has, you know, ownership of this entity.
It's because it's in China.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
It's interesting. This is kind of new territory in a
lot of ways. Let's take some of these calls. We
get to Jacob in Nebraska, old forty four year old Republican,
what have you got for us?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Jacob, Hey, hap'pter be and gentlemen, So I did just
happen calling in on this. I got rid of all
social media during the pandemic. It was just it was
just too much, so completely took myself off all of it.
I jump ahead a few years. I have an eleven
year old daughter now. She wanted to get onto TikTok, Facebook, Snapchat,
(19:50):
all of those. My only stipulation was, I have to
be honest, right, I have to be able to monitor.
So it was able to well. As I'm getting more
and more into TikTok, you could actually learn quite a
bit based off kind of what you're where, You're following,
what you're doing, what you're liking. So far, I am really,
(20:11):
really really into home setting and I'm learning how to
build a new greenhouse. And I've also learned quite a
bit about ducks versus chickens. Ducks are hardier, their eggs
are healthier, they're cleaner. As far as the whole China thing,
(20:32):
you know, if they want to find out information, they're
going to find it out, whether or not they own
an half or not.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, I guess you know.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
First of all, Jacob, I appreciate that you know you
you've had these interesting experiences with TikTok. I have the
same thing. I've actually learned a lot from it. I
don't really post on it It's funny. It's the only
social media platform Clay that I consume not for work. Yeah, Like,
I don't use it for work. I just kind of
use it to if you want to kill time. If
you're stuck in like an airport, you know, waiting area
(21:01):
for an hour, you sit there, you scrow through TikTok.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Your brain just goes on autopilot. You won't even realize
what's going on.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
But I also think that the the risks of the
Chinese exploitation of TikTok have never been explained to me
in a way where I find it compelling. That's that's
my Uh, they're gonna know what you like and don't like.
I think what people get into Clay a little bit
more here is are And this goes to the media
angle that you've brought up, which is okay. But a
foreign country can shift perception in a sense, or can
(21:32):
can begin to have influence at a mass level over
how people view issues and things. So, but that's more
of a propaganda component than a spying component. So let
me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Then. My take is I'm less concerned about, uh, the
Chinese ownership than the fact that China restricts American companies
from being able to compete in its markets, but we
aren't restricted China from being able to compete in our markets.
And the example I would use is YouTube doesn't have
(22:05):
access to China. Google doesn't have access to China. Twitter
doesn't have access to China. Facebook doesn't have access to China.
All of those companies effectively have clones that exist in China,
and those are Chinese owned companies that then create business
create opportunities there. My big thing is if we don't
(22:26):
have mutuality of competition in the same way that we
have similar in theory tariffs going back and forth, try
to create free trade, we don't have free big tech trade,
and so I don't want China building huge businesses in
the United States and not allowing the United States to
do the same in the media space.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
See.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I find that argument compelling and I agree.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
With that that as far as I know, though, it
has nothing to do with why they're forcing the sale, right,
this isn't about unfair Chinese trade practice.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Well, what policy has been that they would be able
to stay open if they had United States ownership, So
the company would still exist as it is if they sold,
and they don't have to sell the whole company. They
just have to sell the US assets.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I mean, but they have said TikTok is based in
I think California, and they have said that that TikTok
that you operate, you deal with in America is run
by people who live in America, by US citizens on
US servers, on you know, it's about just foreign ownership, right,
It's you know, it's like the Byte Dance, Right, it's
(23:33):
byt dances.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
The majority stake of TikTok.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And you sit there, you say, okay, So they could
certainly try to influence the US based company, but also
how much are they really going to do that? What
kind of problems would that cause for them if that
came out? Like I just I don't see what is it?
Me and Jamal Bowman, right, were the only.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Job I Actually, I think your argument is strong in this.
You now, maybe it's gonna change because Trump won. Certainly
we're seeing a change at Facebook and we've seen a
change at Twitter. YouTube is horribly bal biased in favor
of the left right, and that's why Rumble came to
exist because you and I remember they took down our
(24:15):
interview with Rand Paul. They took down our interview with
Donald Trump. They wouldn't allow us to share the interview
that we did with both elected officials on YouTube in
the last couple Thank you for reminding me of what
has been my most compelling argument. I haven't brought this yet,
but it's absolutely true, which is that Google is a
much bigger threat to all of you listening to this
right now. Google is a much bigger threat to your freedoms,
(24:37):
your constitutional rights than anything TikTok has been up to.
I can assure you of that.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Okay, the enemy within is far more concerning to me
than what Beijing can do working through a proxy that
has a lot of people, you know, posting content that's
pretty No, it's Americans posting the content too. This Like
I know, I've actually and that a couple of TikTok influencers,
Like I know some of these people, and you know
(25:04):
they're not getting their marching instructions from China.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
You know, this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It's it's not like a edity full of Chinese nationals
is trying to explain American politics to us. It's like
kids who grew up in Cincinnati who are doing dance
and and you know, teaching.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Buck how to dance in his in his apartment by himself.
I will say that my solution here, which seems like
a very reasonable one. In addition to Buck having to
go on TikTok and post the dance himself that he
was learning, which is hysterical to me, I think the
easy solution is that there is American ownership of TikTok
based company. And if I just think about this rationally,
(25:41):
if I owned substantial assets in TikTok America and those
assets are worth let's say, I don't think it's crazy
one hundred billion dollars, right. I don't think that's a
crazy dollar figure to think that TikTok based on its
penetration market size, the things that we've been talking about,
and even in this audience, so we're going to take
some more your calls. A lot of you were on TikTok,
(26:03):
I don't think it's crazy to think that's one hundred
billion dollar company. Typically, if your company faces a choice
between hey, that one hundred billion dollar valuation can vanish,
or you can get your money and sell it to
someone else, the rational outcome here is that they would
sell this asset to someone else in America, and it
(26:25):
would continue to run just a few things.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I mean, now, to be fair, this was put out
by by TikTok, but I don't think, you know, putting
out lies that would be disprovable would not serve their
interest in this in this matter. But TikTok's parent company,
byte Dance, was founded by Chinese entrepreneurs, but roughly sixty
percent of the company is owned by global institutional investors
(26:48):
like the Carlisle Group, General Atlantic, Susquehanna International. An additional
twenty percent of the company is owned by Bytdance employees
around the world, including nearly seven thousand Americans. Remaining twenty
percent is owned by the company's founder, who is a
private individual not part of any state or government entergy.
Now I think you can push back. I mean, if
if the twenty percent is owned by a guy in China,
(27:10):
the Chinese government gets to call the shots with that
twenty percent. To be clear, there's no such thing as
a separation of public and private in China. So that's
where the TikTok fact sheet here, you know, leaves a
little bit out, but you know, just to show some
of what you know, some of what's on here seems
to be to me at least indicating that it has more.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Diverse ownership than people really people realize.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Look, I just I always think of the clay of
the precedent that these kinds of things set, and to say,
I don't like the ownership of this company, so it
has to be you know, because it's partially foreign, and
so it has to be sold. You know, this is
a This is a government intrusion on the marketplace. This
is not a marketplace first mechanism. And to meybe just
(27:55):
remember what the other side likes to do when they
can just call the shots on things.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well, let me also point this out because I think
it's a Again, this is why I don't think this
lines up in a typical left right dynamic. In fact,
I think you're likely to see some form of left
and right agreement as to whether or not the government
can can ban TikTok. I think there'll be different different resolutions,
(28:19):
different opinions that are drafted from a variety of perspectives.
Let me just ask you this, because this is this
is ultimately what I find to be the crux of
the case. How do you define media in today's day
and age? And that's a big, big picture question. And
let's analogize here. If the New York Times, which you
(28:40):
and I agree is a super left wing biased company,
put itself on the market and instead of the Sulzberger family,
which I think owns it in the New York City area,
instead of that, a Chinese based company bought The New
York Times, I think everybody would say, that's unacceptable. We're
not going to allow that, right, So that would be
(29:01):
And by the way, it could be a Wall Street Journal,
it could be Fox News, it could be choose your defined,
definite media outlet. Where does TikTok fall in the media universe,
because I think most of you out there would say, yeah,
the Wall Street Journal can't be owned by a foreigner.
This is why, to a large extent, Ruper Murdoch became
an American citizen is because American media ownership rules require
(29:26):
that American citizens own our media companies, because otherwise the
fear is that you get George Soros and you have
some guy come in and you start to diabolically pull streams.
So I think that's the question, where does TikTok rank
on the media flowchart? Because that also factors in here.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Well, what you're also seeing though, is in the digital era,
perhaps more so than ever, information is a national security issue.
And I don't mean classified information. I mean the distribution
of information. I mean mass media. Shaping perception at scale
is now a national security concern because if you can
(30:04):
influence people, especially let's say, if you're China, you want
to influence US population.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Do we really care about Taiwan? Is Taiwan really are?
You know?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Is that really something we need to be so concerned about?
Now you could say that that will take time, and yeah, well,
China thinks in long term, and there's a lot of
ways that you can manipulate public opinion. You can kind
of manufacture a consensus of sorts. So that's that's you.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Know, you see what I mean?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yes, No, I think it's it's we can all understand, Okay,
you can't have a company selling missiles like advanced missile
technology to Iran.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
We understand that, right, clear national security implication.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Now it's we can't have a company that does a
lot of US generated content that's too popular because their
algorithm that they use may shift perception broadly on political
issues in a way that is not advantageous.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
To the US. Do you see this. I mean, I
think it kind of gets crystallized. I think you've talked
about this before on the show. You can be watching CNN,
which is allowed to broadcast in China, and when they
discuss anything China related that they don't like, the television
just goes black. Like you know, CNN International Watch.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, yeah, you also like all you have to know
about seeing an international is that the play it in
countries where they absolutely hate America.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Tells you a lot about CNN.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
You turn it on, you go, oh, America is the
bad guy according to CNN International.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
A lot of that, but it is interesting right to
think about they basically individual segments have Chinese censors who
will just block it out. You can't get you know,
the site that I sold to Fox, you can't get
out kick in China. We're banned that you cannot pull Now.
I know people have VPNs and they get smart and
they figure out a way to pull it up. But
I mean, it's a sports focused website, but we've been
(31:49):
critical of China to such an extent associated with sports,
you can't even pull it up.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I also just think, you know, people, people have become
very distrustful of big pharma, for example, and in the
post COVID shot era. I think there's more reason than
ever for that, although Big Farmer actually does do a
lot of important things which I like to remind everybody of.
Like everyone people like their stating drugs. I mean, there's
really important stuff that's being done. People like their cancer
drugs when they really need them. You know, there's it's
(32:16):
not just a downside with with big pharma, big media,
I mean, or big social media you can't trust you
look at like Google and YouTube and all this.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think they want TikTok on. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I think that's certainly true because they like thet off
members of Congress. Yeah, I think they've bought off members
of Congress. Google look at the Google money, and I
think on both sides, man, Google is the most powerful
company in the world right now, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I think that's true. We'll come back, We'll take some
more of your calls. I'm actually impressed at how many
of you are committed to using TikTok even from a
variety of perspectives. Eight hundred and two A two two
eight A two. Maybe one of you has seen buck
dancing imagine living in a country under constant assault from
all sides, having to endure thousands of missile attacks, evacuating
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(33:07):
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Speaker 4 (34:09):
Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that you unite.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Us all each day. Spend time with Clay and find
them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show, closing up
the shop here. We've got a couple of guests coming
your way in the third hour, Andy McCarthy on the
end of Trump lawfair, the unconditional discharge that occurred in
the New York City courtroom. Just Judge merchand what does
he make of all of this. He will join us
(34:45):
top of the next hour, and then our buddy Ryan Kurdusky,
who is now a part of the Clay and Buck
podcast network, which is just doing gangbuster numbers. By the way,
you guys are really diving into so many of the
different different shows out there, and that is fabulous to see.
We'll break down and discuss all of that. We're gonna
continue deluged with emails from you guys who are on TikTok,
(35:09):
and the responses are super interesting. And for the most part,
what's interesting to me, Buck is most people aren't on
there for current events, at least reaching out to us
and politics. It's whatever particular niche you are interested in,
you are getting served videos from that niche. So for Buck,
it might be new dance moves. For some of you
(35:31):
out there, it might be you know, how do you
build or frame a new home?
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Or it might be firearms tips and room clearing play
or edge weapons tactics in close corners. Okay, don't don't
pigeonhole me into the shuffle dance only I think.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's just does Carrie know about your dance moves? Is this?
I know she was just talking to a soft air here.
Is she aware before Carrie was in the picture? Okay,
you know, has she seen the moves? Has she seen
the moves? That's the question. You're gonna have to break
these out at the inaugural parties. Are there gonna be
like you gonna be leading a slide show and out.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Some shuffle dance at the Trump Ball? Maybe now, maybe,
if the people demand it, it could happen.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
You never know.
Speaker 6 (36:12):
Well.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
By the way, go subscribe Crocket Coffee Buck. We'll send
you a private dance tutorial. You can go to Crocketcoffee
dot com right now. Sign up's coffee that loves America,
loves America as much as Buck loves line dancing. Uh,
you go to Crocket Coffee dot com. I'll sign books
a lot of snow here. We're gonna end up with
like six or eight inches of snow. I'm gonna be
sitting around watching football signing books. They'll be going out
(36:34):
to you on Monday for everybody who uses code book
Crocketcoffee dot Com. We come back Trump. Waffair will also
ask Andy what he thinks about the TikTok Supreme Court
case that's next
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