December 15, 2023 • 37 mins
Dr. Carol Swain, Senior Fellow at the Institute for Faith and Culture and author of the book, "The Adversity of Diversity," joins Clay and Buck to discuss how the president of Harvard University, Claudine Gay, plagiarized her work and how higher education is being destroyed by DEI. Boston Mayor Wu says her racist, segregated party was just an email mistake. Reviewing the Chris Christie interview. Clay's off to Australia -- we think.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back in Everybody, third hour play and Buck kicks
off right now. We are joined by doctor Carol Swain.
She's a senior fellow at the Institute for Faith and Culture,
also the author of the book The Adversity of Diversity,
which was released this past summer. Doctor Swain honored to
have you on the program.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Meetcham, I'm quite excited. Thank you for all the good
work you did.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Let's start with well, why your name has certainly been
in the news cycle for the last week or so.
The president of Harvard still the president as we speak here.
I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, doctor Gay.
There are allegations from a friend of the show, Chris
Ruffo here and others that she plagiarized some of your work.
(00:54):
I wanted to ask you first about that. I mean,
what do you think of those allegations and what do
you think of all the fact that doctor Gay seems
to be held to a different standard than other university presidents,
like University of Pennsylvania's who have already resigned.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
But she is a documented serial pleasurist that that cannot
be denied, and Harvard University can't decide. You know laterally
that they're going to change the definition of pleasurism just
to protect its first ever black president.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
So that is certainly the case.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
And she lifted two passages from my prize winning book
Black Faces, Black Interests the representation of African Americans in Congress,
But her home to me, I contend go quar beyond
that because she did her early research in the area
where I was the noted scholar who produced the path
(01:53):
breaking work. She built on my work, and she did
not give me proper ignowledgment or attribution. As a scholar,
if you were working in an area where there is
a leading professor to acknowledge that work, either to a
permit to refute it or to expand it. She would
(02:14):
have a citation in her bibliography, But anyone reading Claudine
Gay's work would not know that about the work that
I was the lead scholar on that was considered pathbreaking.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
So that's one issue. The other issue is to.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Get early tenure at Princeton. The requirements back in the
nineteen nineties was that you had to have a path
breaking book, not a series of mediocre articles. And my
book won three national prizes, was cited by many law
courts as well as the Supreme Court. I had three
(02:51):
Supreme Court citations. That was the path breaking work that
she should have acknowledged in her career.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
It not really, doctor Swain. I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
This is Clay and I first want to say glad
that you have been at Vanderbilt University in the law
school and the undergrad I went to the law school.
I think you've done fantastic work there. My understanding is
you're a mom, a grandma, and a great grandma. So
I want to look at it from this perspective. When
(03:24):
you see what Harvard is saying to defend their president
right now, Claudine Gay, not only as a scholar, obviously
because you have achieved a tremendous amount in your career,
but as a mom, grandma and great grandma. What do
you think when the NAACP says it's racist to question
(03:46):
doctor Gay in any way about her scholarship.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I've been black all in my life and all of
my life. Whenever a black person was challenged on the left,
the reaction from the elites always racist, and so you
can't challenge one of their fellow elite blacks without hearing
the charge that it has to be racist. It always
(04:12):
has to be racist. If you're white, you have to
be a white supremacist. I would say that the people
are from the NAACP don't really.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Understand the issue.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And one of the nuances of the issue, as it
pertains to me, is that in her published work that
we now know that parts of it was pleasurized, she
in my opinion, cheated me out of citations. Because in academia,
your statue depends on how many citations you get. And
(04:42):
if there's someone working in an area where you did
pathbreaking work and they're not adequately citing your work or
acknowledging it, it hurts you over time.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
And so I'm a person I.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Took early retirement from Vanderbilt in twenty seventeen largely because
of woke environment.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And when I look at.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Her, who is quote a distinguished professor, She won a
prize for her senior thesis, she won a prize for
her dissertation, and now we know she is a seria pleasurist.
I believe that people like her who have had the
most elite education. She went to Phillips Exeter Academy for
(05:26):
her high school, then she went to Harvard University and
was tenured at Stanford Day. She education that America has
to offer, and yet she has not produced any path
breaking work. I would say her work is mediocre at best.
It should not have wanted tenure at.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Stanford, Doctor Swain, You, no doubt have, I'm sure, thought
about what the future holds here in the environment where
the Supreme Court has weighed in most recently on affirmative
ice action in college admissions and deemed it unconstitutional. I
wanted to know if you think that, given all your
(06:07):
time in academia, that we are at a turning point
for both college admissions and also for the hiring of
professors when it comes to relying on diversity as a
primary really a game changing indicator of who they're going
to take or is this just going to be a
long series of lawsuits over many, many years to get
(06:29):
these schools to start changing how they admit students and
how they hire and tenure professors.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Well, well, certainly, I believe at a turning point.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And that's the one reason why this book, The Adversity
of diversity is important because it points out that CRT
and DER programs violate the Constitution and our civil rights
laws in the same way as race based the firm divection.
And I also contend that we can have diversity without discrimination.
(06:59):
All we have to do is go back to the
original intent of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four,
enforced the ego protection clause of the Constitution that does
not prohibit outreach to persons, but that outreach needs to
be done to qualified individuals of all races, and so
it should be the death deal for DEI programs left.
(07:24):
They have already declared that they're going to resist in
the same way as people resisted on the left and
on the right the nineteen fifty four Brown Versus Board
of Education school desegregation ruling.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
It meant for me as a child, I did not.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Attend integrated schools until the late nineteen sixties because of
the massive resistance. Progressives have declared that they're going to
continue doing what they've always done, and I have been
encouraging white Americans, Asian Asian Americans, men, Christians, various groups
(08:06):
who are protected by the civil rights laws to exercise
and defend their rights by filing lawsuits.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
And I know that lawsuits.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Are being one by white Americans and by men who
have been discriminated against because they are male, because you know,
they have a female boss or female bosses that have
accused them of being you know, toxic because they're male,
or they and they openly tell men, they tell white.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
People, we have to promote.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You know, someone asked you cannot take advantage of this
scholarship or this promotion opportunity because of your race. That
is blatantly against the law. More Americans need to know
their rights, and one of the things I've tried to
do with my research is to make them aware. And
so even before the adversity of diversity, I published a book,
(09:03):
A Black Eye for America had critical race theory is
brenning down the house, and critical race theory.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
Both of those theories are.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Deeply rooted in neomoxism, and the end goal of neomoxism
is to bring down America, to usher in globalism, to
get rid of First world countries.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Doctor Swain, do you think if Claudine Gay the president
of Harvard or fired that it would be an improvement?
Do you think it would send an important message or
is all of this toxicity with which I think it's
fair to say she is a standard bearer for, is
it so deeply embedded in these universities now that it
(09:49):
doesn't really change anything because the next person up will
basically be a clone of doctor Gay in many ways
as well, and that they'll bring leave the same things.
What should happen in your mind here?
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Ability?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And if Harvard University wants to be considered a world
class university again, they have to do something about doctor
Gay because doctor Gay is an embarrassment to education in America,
not just in higher education, but also K through twelve.
And my hope is that we are at a turning point.
(10:28):
And at universities, they're losing students because students are not
seeing a college education as a good investment. And I
have met parents and grandparents who are given that children
an option of taking that college money that was saved
up and starting businesses rather than going to a four
year college.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
So they're losing students, they're losing respect.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
They're at a point where they could actually do the
right thing, and all they have to do is to
bring back the original intent of higher education to exposed
students to a marketplace of ideas, to create an environment
where you're exposed to new ideas, where you have to
wrestle with new ideas. That's how critical thinking takes place.
(11:12):
It cannot take place in indoctrination centers. And I would
also contend that it hurts racial and ethnic minorities the most,
and especially those of us of all races, who were
worked out butts off to get where we are. When
they lord the standards and they laud them for someone
who's had an opportunity to have the best education that
(11:34):
America has to offer and they're law on the standard
for that person, I don't think so. And I said
in another interview, I cannot let this go.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
I can't let it.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Go because the future of American education is at stake
and what is happening is harming everyone. And I intend
to stay on Doctor Gaye's not doctor gay because I
don't know about whether she earned her doctor, but President
Gay's case just like quite on.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Rice, I'm just your son, Doctor Swain. You're fantastic. I
appreciate you coming on with us and sharing your story,
and good luck with all those grandkids and great grandkids.
As Christmas gets closer, I'm sure you're super busy, as
many of us are with all of that, and we
appreciate you giving us that time.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
That is doctor Carol Swain. I encourage you guys to
check her out. She's active on social media and she
is a truth teller in a world where often truth
is not told. Very often is all too often so
many of you have experienced. I want to tell you
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Speaker 2 (13:50):
Clay Travis at buck Sexton Making Sense in an Insane world.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show appreciates all
of you hanging out with us. Courage you to go
subscribe to the podcast. You can search out my name,
Clay Travis buck Sexton. You can also search out a
couple of our podcast network names that I think you
guys would enjoy. Tutor Dixon you have heard many times
on this program, as well as Carol Markowitz, who also
(14:21):
does really great work. You can find their shows within
our show podcast network and you will enjoy those as
well as hopefully this one. Our thanks to doctor Carol
Swain who was just hanging out with us there and
directly saying that she believes that Clauding Gay at Harvard
should lose her job for the plagiarism that occurred according
(14:45):
to two reports, and the plagiarism of doctor Carrol Swain's work.
This ties into me buck with sort of this crazy
racial dynamic that has taken over where if you're woke
at JR. Swayne just said, you can basically get away
with anything, and it's tearing down the fabric of our country.
We mentioned this yesterday Boston's mayor Michelle Wu she had
(15:09):
a a party for people of color only. She said, hey,
this was just an honest mistake. Guys, listen to cut Nawe.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
I think we've we've had individual conversations with everyone so
people understand that it was truly just an honest mistake
that went out in typing the email field. And I
look forward to celebrating with everyone at the holiday parties
that we will have besides this one as well. So
it is my intention that we can again be a
(15:38):
city that lives our values and creates space for all
kinds of communities to come together.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Quite a hostage video there, you know, really it actually
she's gonna go with me like it was just an
email mistake.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
It was not an email mistake. We all understand. You know,
why doesn't this happen?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
It's weird. Do you think this happens with like.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
The you know, the governor of Texas, or this happened
and the governor of Tennessee having a only people of
color Christmas party? No, but the mayor of Boston would
be like if the mayor of San Francisco did this
or something, you could say to yourself, Ah, the left
wing wokeness. We're finally seeing exactly what they really think
(16:23):
during this holiday season.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
And also, would anybody believe if somebody had a white's
only Christmas party and the mayor came out and they
were like, hey, you know, this was just an email error.
You know when we said only white people can come,
that was a total with We actually meant everybody could
come when we said only white people can't come.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's kind of pretty intentional.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And it's just so tone death and stupid that only
somebody who is woke could make this mistake, right, I
don't think that anybody else would even try this.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
And somebody said it is good. The Boston Globe is
not even covering this hardly buck.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Well, you think about how they would cover it if
some sort of exclusion area event.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But but this goes to DEI and wokeness political correctness.
I actually like that turn too, because we built over
many years or revulsion to it. And that's wokeness is
just weaponized political correct correctness, meaning it's just the next
level of Instead of just you have to say the
nice things or else we're gonna get mad at you,
it's say the crazy things or will fire you. Right,
it's just an escalation. But it all is self contradictory.
(17:26):
And you see this we mentioned yesterday on college campus
is the notion of having separate housing for racial minorities
on campus. I mean, Clay, that is so racist unless
Democrats and left wingers do it, and then it's somehow
creating safe spaces for those minorities to thrive. We say, wait,
a whole lot of second, which which one is it?
(17:47):
You know, I mean it's a totally broken Yeah, there's
no actual principle. It is just the the capricious wielding
of power.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
And that's really what's at the heart of all this.
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Speaker 4 (18:56):
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines. Welcome back, everybody.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Clay and I we we we talk and strategize and
UH and go back and forth in the breaks and
and we just wanted to say, if anyone's joining us,
UH live right now. And you missed last hour, Governor
Christie came on the show, and you know, I think
it was an interesting exchange.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
You know, we always want to be.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Able to be a place where people who are Republicans
can come on and make their case and we let
them speak. It's tough, you know, on radio, because we
got a lot of you know, uh, govern.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Christie likes to talk. I like to talk.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Clay certainly not shy about talking. So you know, we
we try to give them their say, but we don't uh,
we don't also want to let them filibuster. And I
would just go back to for me, you know, and
I want people to go back and listen to it
if you missed it. But the part where I think
anybody who was open minded, which is less than half
(19:59):
of the GOP electorate, I would say, but open minded
to the possibility of a because if you're a trump
port and it's even less if you're a Trumper of
Aveak person, I think you have no interest in Governor Christie.
If you're a and this is just my opinion, but
you know I'm right. If you are a desantist person,
I think you have pretty much no interest in Governor
(20:21):
Christie as well. I think it's only the only crossover
is whatever his numbers are. It's like eleven percent in
New Hampshire or something right now, right, and Nicky Haley
right now, that's it for him. It's Nicky Haley and
Governor Christie. So he said he's not endorsing her, and
there's not some you know, secret plan or anything. Okay, fine,
but that's the wing of the GOP that they have
to work with. And when he said the thing about parents'
(20:44):
rights when it comes to transgender surgery for minors, I mean, Clay,
I just I wish we had more time, and I
don't wanna, you know, I don't want to do the
thing what you do where you you know, you attack
somebody's argument.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
We're not attacking him. We're attacking his argument.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
But I mean, come on, man, like you know, by
the way, I do think it's interesting because I brought
up the issue of disciplining children. There are lines actually,
and it is child abuse to you know, to strike
your child and create damage and physical pain. Right, I
mean giving someone a tap on the butt or something
as a you know, as a spank is a little
bit different. We draw these lines. You know, if you
(21:22):
tap somebody on the shoulder. That's not punching them in
the face. But you don't get to say, you know,
I burn my child with a hot iron because that's
how I think discipline should be.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, I thought there were two things that stood out
to me from the Chris Christi interview. One is the
trans issue, which I just think he's wrong on. And
I think, you know, you can sum it up really
well by just in almost every state in America, if
you take a child and you get them a tattoo,
you get a permanent etching on their body, and they
(21:52):
are thirteen or fourteen years old. First of all, that's
not permissible in most states. That would be something that
a parent could be charged they crime for. So if
in our reasoned, knowledgeable basis of understanding parenting and parenting rights,
we have said, hey, a thirteen or a fourteen year
old shouldn't be allowed to get a permanent tattoo, and
(22:14):
a parent who takes someone to a tattoo parlor to
get that done can be held criminally responsible for doing so,
how in the world can we simultaneously say the same
parent could take their kid to a doctor and get
and I'm sorry, it's some graphic to some people, but
the breasts of a thirteen or fourteen year old girl
(22:37):
chopped off.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Crime mean some of these love the tattoo comparison.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And I mean, but the people that are arguing for
transgender surgery for miners are arguing that it's a medically
necessary procedure. No one argues that a tattoo is a
medically necessary procedure. It's a physical adornment.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
But the way that I look at it is, we
don't allow bodies to be permanently altered by by minors. Yeah,
but I mean if a kid had an infection in
his foot and you had to amputate his foot, you know, yeah,
we do allow you know, that's medically necessary. No one
getting a flaming dragon on your shoulder is going to
save your life is but it's yes, No one I
don't believe can argue that this is medically necessary.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
And so I think that's a tough position.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But but the left doesn't even advocate for The left
does argue that the transgender surgery for minors is very
it's medically necessary, it is essential to their basic humanity.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
It's a civil rights struggle.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So that's the only place where I think, I mean,
to your point, it's like we have rules about things
that are much lesser in importance, that are that are
enforced for minors.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Parent rights are restricted when it comes to changing the
kid's bodies all the time.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
And the truth is, you know, and look, obviously there's
different levels here.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
But you know, yeah, like technically if a parent is
out with their with their you know, nineteen year old
and orders wine for the table, like, is that legal?
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Though technically that's not legal.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
We don't lock people up for that, and you know,
I think there's some understandable and prosecutorial discretion and you know,
it would be crazy to bother a parent about that,
but it is technically illegal, right, I mean you can't.
You can't serve your nineteen year old kid alcohol at
home or in public, yes, which I mean, I think
it makes sense. I think the drinking age should be eighteen.
(24:16):
I have a whole others. You know, I think the
drinking age being twenty. Why not make it thirty? I mean,
the whole thing is absurd. But you know, I think
that you really run into problems when you're going to
allow a I mean, the real issue here, Clay is
it is actually a mental illness, and it is never
medically necessary to change your biology to suit some psychological need.
(24:39):
That's actually the center of the fight, right. The medical
necessity is everything, because if it is a medical necessity,
then it's in a different category than drinking or tattoos
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
And the other one that stood out to me buck
Associated was he said he would prosecute Donald Trump if
he were a United States attorney, which I don't know
that he said that regular.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I know that to me is crazy. That's great.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Well, I mean I was gonna ask this question, and
we again, we ran out of time, and I encourage
anyone who didn't hear it go back download the iHeartRadio app.
You can listen to the podcast on de Man. We'll
have it up probably by the time you're even listening to.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Us live here.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
But I was gonna ask him, well, would you would
you if you you know, he's obviously not the prosecutor, right,
I was gonna ask him, would you pardon Donald Trump
if you became president, which one is not going to.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Happen, right, He's not going to become president, but whatever.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But I can't even ask that question because clearly, if
he would prosecute Donald Trump. He's not going to pardon
Donald Trump, right, So wow, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And I think the key there is and this is
where I think he's on the bidding of the enemy Clay.
It's very sorry to inter up, but it's very frustrating.
You know, he used to be a Republican, but to
make that decision, regardless of what you think about Trump,
to set the precedent of trying to put the chief
political rival of the sitting president of the United States
(25:58):
in prison for the rest of his life. For anybody
who studies the law, whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or
an independent, I just think it's an incredibly irrational decision
that is going to lead to more instability in our country.
And don't think that Trump is going to be the
last that is used as an example here. They're trying
to set the precedent that they can do this.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I also like to remind people because I feel like
this doesn't get talked about much. Donald Trump, by his
own public admission, in twenty sixteen, decided to leave the
Hillary email situation alone. And because she broke the law,
and I know plenty of federal prosecutors I personally know
(26:41):
federal prosecutors who have told me I would have charged
that case.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
They wouldn't have locked.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Her up for twenty years or whatever, but they would
have made her take a plea deal, admit guilt, you know,
be unable to hold the clearance.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Again, you know, I don't know, maybe thirty days or something.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
And they send people to jail for a lot for
some things with classified information. Point being though, there should
have been some admission of wrongdoing and guilt made because
she definitely was under the recklessness component in that statute,
if there is such a thing as recklessness. And Donald
Trump made the decision for all of the Oh Trump
is hitler, and you know, yeah, and he's kind of
a brass knuckles guy. He said it's best for the
(27:19):
country to leave this alone. He could he could have
sent his attorney general after Hillary. I know that we
were told that never happens. It happens, folks, look at
this administration. He could have done that, nobody would have known.
But he didn't do it because it wasn't in the
interest of the country to prosecute his chief political rival.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Joe Biden is doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, and look, there are people who were upset with
Trump because he was actually too generous. Some people thought
too Hillary, after all the lock her up chance, But
I think he was right on the president of Hey,
let's let the elections decide who the president is. And
you can't try and put your chief political adversary in prison.
I think it is absolutely unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And I guess also just for me, I mean, this
really is what comes across when I see when I
would see Christy on stage. You know, he's making this
case about Donald Trump and how he's not fit and
everything else. And I sit here and I go, you know,
what really determines fitness the electorate and the guys.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
That's the entire purpose of a democratic system.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, so this this argument, oh he's not fit, I
sit here and I say, I mean, he was a
really good president and the country was in much better shape.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
There's no question about that, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And whenever I start to say this too, I'm honestly
really sick of I get some of the DeSantis uh,
you know supporters in the audience. Oh, you're on for Trump,
we said here, and we're just living in reality, folks.
DeSantis is a phenomenal governor. Phenomenal governor of the state
of Florida, a true conservative, a brilliant guy. I think
DeSantis is great. I think Trump is great. I think
Vivek is really interesting in a music and very smart.
(28:56):
Like I mean, I like these people. I'm not going
to try one for the benefit of the other. Obviously
we don't endorse here, but when I see Governor Christy,
I just feel like he's turned into Captain Ahab And
you know, Trump is the white whale for him, and
it's just it's not about the country anymore. For a
lot of these people. They it's like a Trump derangement
(29:17):
syndrome thing. And I would have said this to him,
And we'll have him back at some point, although a
lot of gonna yellow us for having him on at all,
but I will have him back because I think it's
important to fight it out on some of these issues.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
You know, that's for me.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Look, if you just want people to and I would
put the Christy conversation we had in the same category
we did with Mike Pince. If we have disagreements with candidates,
do you want us to just pretend that everything is
hunky dory? I think you actually conflict is good. That's
how you reach a resolution. I think Christy's really wrong
(29:49):
on prosecuting Trump, and I think he's really wrong on
the trans kit issue. And I can't get past both
of those because to me, they are integral questions that ever,
everyone who is voting in the presidential primary, whether you're
a Democrat or Republican, should want the answer on and.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I will, I will give credit, and this will get
me some booze from the from the from the bleachers.
He's willing to come on and fight it out a
little bit. You know, there are other credit we give
credit to anybody.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I mean, you guys should see.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
You know, we try to get Mitch McConnell when he
sells out to come on and you know, crickets, that's
never gonna happen, right, And we try to get some
of these people to come on the show. So at
least credit to people who are willing to come on
and defend their In this case, I mean, the trans
kid thing is just that's just a non starter for
the GOP. I don't know, I don't know why he's
so wrong on that. I know he hates Trump, I
(30:38):
get that, Why is he so wrong on the trans
kid thing. I don't see why he doesn't understand that
issue more clearly, and as a.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Parent of four kids, I don't know if it's sometimes
you're influenced by the community you're in more so than
you are what your own logic would lead you. Again,
if you're over eighteen and you decide that you want
to change your gender, I don't think that's probably gonna
make you a lot happier personally, But I think you
should be able to make as an adult decisions for
your life. The idea that we let any kid do
(31:06):
it to me is just absolutely indefensible, and I think
it's disqualifying. If you're a Republican candidate, won't say that
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Speaker 4 (32:19):
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Speaker 1 (32:20):
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Speaker 4 (32:26):
Listen to the program live, catch up on any part
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Speaker 1 (32:33):
Fine the Clay and Buck app in your app store
and make it part of your days. Welcome back in
closing up shop here Friday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show.
I appreciate all of you hanging out with us as
we are rolling through and encourage you to go subscribe
to the podcast. In Theory Buck, I am soon to
depart for Australia with my three kids and my wife,
(32:56):
but the Travis household has been torn asunder this morning.
Our flight to Australia was canceled this morning, so I
have no earthly idea what the travel situation is actually
going to look like. And this is not an easy
flight to take in the first place. So I think
and am hopeful that we are still going to be
(33:17):
able to get to Australia, and if we do, then
I will be there for Christmas and New Years and
be back with you guys after the first of the year.
But it's also possible we don't go anywhere. So this
is like a whole bit frustrated. You can't abandon We
got a few things here. First of all, I'm sure
we got a few pilots in the audience here who
could probably swoop over. It's a sixteen hour flight. I'm
not asking for a you know, a quick stop over here.
(33:41):
There's a lot of true specific.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
You're not you're not running late for the big game
in Tuscaloosa or something like You're gonna.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Have mentioned this earlier in the show, so evidently Delta
canceled our flight because we had an American flight to
get us to la and somehow some idiot at Delta
canceled our flight to Sydney, Australia, and so now we're scrambling.
Canceled the flight still exist, they just canceled our reservation.
(34:07):
I don't know how this is even possible, but the
house has been a total mess as we're trying to
get all this resolved in time to be able to
get there.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
So I don't I've never even heard of this happening.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
They just said, hey, you don't have a We took
all five of your tickets and sold them to someone else,
and now you don't have a flight to Australia.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Sean might be stuck in.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't know if if Hannity's plane is to be
fair even big enough to get to Australia. This is
like a fifteen or sixteen hour flight, So Delta stop
at a few Pacific islands, it'll be fine. I don't
know how Delta is this incompetent. I don't know how
they have managed to screw this up, but evidently we
don't have flights now, so so I could be in
La and just hanging out. So, you know, maybe we'll
(34:55):
go to UH to go check out the Hollywood Sign
and the Walk of Fame and Grummin Theater and all
that area.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
LA.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You know, there's plenty of places to sleep in LA.
They'll let you sleep anywhere, so so who knows.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, you could theoretically turn this into a family camping trip.
At the Hollywood Sign, we could camp. We could go
to Santa Monica, which is lovely. We could sleep right
on the beach in a tent. I could probably get
my boy Gavin Newsom to swing by. We could have
a nice chardonnay, maybe a nice reestling, and just chill
and watch the waves crash.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
So I don't know if he would get there.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I don't know if he would cuddle you by the sunset.
Gavin Newsom quite the same way after you trashed him
when DeSantis gave him that beatdown.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Hey, it wasn't just me trashing him. His own wife
wouldn't let him continue to debate. If your wife throws
in the towel on your debate, that is not a
good sign for you for how things have been going.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I'll just toss that out.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So have you gotten any good, any any particularly interesting
or noteworthy Australia travel advice that you wish to share
with the broader audience across America.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Here.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, so I've actually gotten tons of good advice because
a lot of the Fox people are off so Murdo
so yeah. Uh and a lot of the top executives
at Box are Australians. So my good friend Ed Hartman,
who is at AUSSI, has married an American girl.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
But I told him, I was like, okay, so if
you were taking your family, you know Australia, well, obviously
you're born and raised there, you've lived there for much
of your life. Where do we need to go and
what do we need to see? And he the one
thing he said was Air's Rock, which I think they've
renamed to like Ularu or whatever the new name of
it is to make sure that they don't offend people.
It's a monster trip into the center part of the country.
(36:35):
And he said, by and large, that's not worth making
that massive trip.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, see how it all goes. But we think Clay's
gonna have a great vacation as it stands right now.
Marie's Christmas to everybody. By the way, I should say
an Happy New Year.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Yeap.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That stands right now. I'll be at the helm here
next week, so things are gonna get wild. I'll be
here solo, but let's hope Clay makes this flight all right.
Talk to you Monday,
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back in Everybody, third hour play and Buck kicks
off right now. We are joined by doctor Carol Swain.
She's a senior fellow at the Institute for Faith and Culture,
also the author of the book The Adversity of Diversity,
which was released this past summer. Doctor Swain honored to
have you on the program.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Meetcham, I'm quite excited. Thank you for all the good
work you did.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Let's start with well, why your name has certainly been
in the news cycle for the last week or so.
The president of Harvard still the president as we speak here.
I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, doctor Gay.
There are allegations from a friend of the show, Chris
Ruffo here and others that she plagiarized some of your work.
(00:54):
I wanted to ask you first about that. I mean,
what do you think of those allegations and what do
you think of all the fact that doctor Gay seems
to be held to a different standard than other university presidents,
like University of Pennsylvania's who have already resigned.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
But she is a documented serial pleasurist that that cannot
be denied, and Harvard University can't decide. You know laterally
that they're going to change the definition of pleasurism just
to protect its first ever black president.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
So that is certainly the case.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
And she lifted two passages from my prize winning book
Black Faces, Black Interests the representation of African Americans in Congress,
But her home to me, I contend go quar beyond
that because she did her early research in the area
where I was the noted scholar who produced the path
(01:53):
breaking work. She built on my work, and she did
not give me proper ignowledgment or attribution. As a scholar,
if you were working in an area where there is
a leading professor to acknowledge that work, either to a
permit to refute it or to expand it. She would
(02:14):
have a citation in her bibliography, But anyone reading Claudine
Gay's work would not know that about the work that
I was the lead scholar on that was considered pathbreaking.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
So that's one issue. The other issue is to.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Get early tenure at Princeton. The requirements back in the
nineteen nineties was that you had to have a path
breaking book, not a series of mediocre articles. And my
book won three national prizes, was cited by many law
courts as well as the Supreme Court. I had three
(02:51):
Supreme Court citations. That was the path breaking work that
she should have acknowledged in her career.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
It not really, doctor Swain. I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
This is Clay and I first want to say glad
that you have been at Vanderbilt University in the law
school and the undergrad I went to the law school.
I think you've done fantastic work there. My understanding is
you're a mom, a grandma, and a great grandma. So
I want to look at it from this perspective. When
(03:24):
you see what Harvard is saying to defend their president
right now, Claudine Gay, not only as a scholar, obviously
because you have achieved a tremendous amount in your career,
but as a mom, grandma and great grandma. What do
you think when the NAACP says it's racist to question
(03:46):
doctor Gay in any way about her scholarship.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I've been black all in my life and all of
my life. Whenever a black person was challenged on the left,
the reaction from the elites always racist, and so you
can't challenge one of their fellow elite blacks without hearing
the charge that it has to be racist. It always
(04:12):
has to be racist. If you're white, you have to
be a white supremacist. I would say that the people
are from the NAACP don't really.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Understand the issue.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And one of the nuances of the issue, as it
pertains to me, is that in her published work that
we now know that parts of it was pleasurized, she
in my opinion, cheated me out of citations. Because in academia,
your statue depends on how many citations you get. And
(04:42):
if there's someone working in an area where you did
pathbreaking work and they're not adequately citing your work or
acknowledging it, it hurts you over time.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
And so I'm a person I.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Took early retirement from Vanderbilt in twenty seventeen largely because
of woke environment.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
And when I look at.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Her, who is quote a distinguished professor, She won a
prize for her senior thesis, she won a prize for
her dissertation, and now we know she is a seria pleasurist.
I believe that people like her who have had the
most elite education. She went to Phillips Exeter Academy for
(05:26):
her high school, then she went to Harvard University and
was tenured at Stanford Day. She education that America has
to offer, and yet she has not produced any path
breaking work. I would say her work is mediocre at best.
It should not have wanted tenure at.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Stanford, Doctor Swain, You, no doubt have, I'm sure, thought
about what the future holds here in the environment where
the Supreme Court has weighed in most recently on affirmative
ice action in college admissions and deemed it unconstitutional. I
wanted to know if you think that, given all your
(06:07):
time in academia, that we are at a turning point
for both college admissions and also for the hiring of
professors when it comes to relying on diversity as a
primary really a game changing indicator of who they're going
to take or is this just going to be a
long series of lawsuits over many, many years to get
(06:29):
these schools to start changing how they admit students and
how they hire and tenure professors.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Well, well, certainly, I believe at a turning point.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And that's the one reason why this book, The Adversity
of diversity is important because it points out that CRT
and DER programs violate the Constitution and our civil rights
laws in the same way as race based the firm divection.
And I also contend that we can have diversity without discrimination.
(06:59):
All we have to do is go back to the
original intent of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four,
enforced the ego protection clause of the Constitution that does
not prohibit outreach to persons, but that outreach needs to
be done to qualified individuals of all races, and so
it should be the death deal for DEI programs left.
(07:24):
They have already declared that they're going to resist in
the same way as people resisted on the left and
on the right the nineteen fifty four Brown Versus Board
of Education school desegregation ruling.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
It meant for me as a child, I did not.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Attend integrated schools until the late nineteen sixties because of
the massive resistance. Progressives have declared that they're going to
continue doing what they've always done, and I have been
encouraging white Americans, Asian Asian Americans, men, Christians, various groups
(08:06):
who are protected by the civil rights laws to exercise
and defend their rights by filing lawsuits.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
And I know that lawsuits.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Are being one by white Americans and by men who
have been discriminated against because they are male, because you know,
they have a female boss or female bosses that have
accused them of being you know, toxic because they're male,
or they and they openly tell men, they tell white.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
People, we have to promote.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You know, someone asked you cannot take advantage of this
scholarship or this promotion opportunity because of your race. That
is blatantly against the law. More Americans need to know
their rights, and one of the things I've tried to
do with my research is to make them aware. And
so even before the adversity of diversity, I published a book,
(09:03):
A Black Eye for America had critical race theory is
brenning down the house, and critical race theory.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
Both of those theories are.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Deeply rooted in neomoxism, and the end goal of neomoxism
is to bring down America, to usher in globalism, to
get rid of First world countries.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Doctor Swain, do you think if Claudine Gay the president
of Harvard or fired that it would be an improvement?
Do you think it would send an important message or
is all of this toxicity with which I think it's
fair to say she is a standard bearer for, is
it so deeply embedded in these universities now that it
(09:49):
doesn't really change anything because the next person up will
basically be a clone of doctor Gay in many ways
as well, and that they'll bring leave the same things.
What should happen in your mind here?
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Ability?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And if Harvard University wants to be considered a world
class university again, they have to do something about doctor
Gay because doctor Gay is an embarrassment to education in America,
not just in higher education, but also K through twelve.
And my hope is that we are at a turning point.
(10:28):
And at universities, they're losing students because students are not
seeing a college education as a good investment. And I
have met parents and grandparents who are given that children
an option of taking that college money that was saved
up and starting businesses rather than going to a four
year college.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
So they're losing students, they're losing respect.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
They're at a point where they could actually do the
right thing, and all they have to do is to
bring back the original intent of higher education to exposed
students to a marketplace of ideas, to create an environment
where you're exposed to new ideas, where you have to
wrestle with new ideas. That's how critical thinking takes place.
(11:12):
It cannot take place in indoctrination centers. And I would
also contend that it hurts racial and ethnic minorities the most,
and especially those of us of all races, who were
worked out butts off to get where we are. When
they lord the standards and they laud them for someone
who's had an opportunity to have the best education that
(11:34):
America has to offer and they're law on the standard
for that person, I don't think so. And I said
in another interview, I cannot let this go.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
I can't let it.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Go because the future of American education is at stake
and what is happening is harming everyone. And I intend
to stay on Doctor Gaye's not doctor gay because I
don't know about whether she earned her doctor, but President
Gay's case just like quite on.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Rice, I'm just your son, Doctor Swain. You're fantastic. I
appreciate you coming on with us and sharing your story,
and good luck with all those grandkids and great grandkids.
As Christmas gets closer, I'm sure you're super busy, as
many of us are with all of that, and we
appreciate you giving us that time.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
That is doctor Carol Swain. I encourage you guys to
check her out. She's active on social media and she
is a truth teller in a world where often truth
is not told. Very often is all too often so
many of you have experienced. I want to tell you
something I just mentioned the holiday season. Tunnel the Towers
is right now trying to deliver on its promise to
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(13:14):
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Speaker 2 (13:50):
Clay Travis at buck Sexton Making Sense in an Insane world.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show appreciates all
of you hanging out with us. Courage you to go
subscribe to the podcast. You can search out my name,
Clay Travis buck Sexton. You can also search out a
couple of our podcast network names that I think you
guys would enjoy. Tutor Dixon you have heard many times
on this program, as well as Carol Markowitz, who also
(14:21):
does really great work. You can find their shows within
our show podcast network and you will enjoy those as
well as hopefully this one. Our thanks to doctor Carol
Swain who was just hanging out with us there and
directly saying that she believes that Clauding Gay at Harvard
should lose her job for the plagiarism that occurred according
(14:45):
to two reports, and the plagiarism of doctor Carrol Swain's work.
This ties into me buck with sort of this crazy
racial dynamic that has taken over where if you're woke
at JR. Swayne just said, you can basically get away
with anything, and it's tearing down the fabric of our country.
We mentioned this yesterday Boston's mayor Michelle Wu she had
(15:09):
a a party for people of color only. She said, hey,
this was just an honest mistake. Guys, listen to cut Nawe.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
I think we've we've had individual conversations with everyone so
people understand that it was truly just an honest mistake
that went out in typing the email field. And I
look forward to celebrating with everyone at the holiday parties
that we will have besides this one as well. So
it is my intention that we can again be a
(15:38):
city that lives our values and creates space for all
kinds of communities to come together.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Quite a hostage video there, you know, really it actually
she's gonna go with me like it was just an
email mistake.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
It was not an email mistake. We all understand. You know,
why doesn't this happen?
Speaker 4 (15:58):
It's weird. Do you think this happens with like.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
The you know, the governor of Texas, or this happened
and the governor of Tennessee having a only people of
color Christmas party? No, but the mayor of Boston would
be like if the mayor of San Francisco did this
or something, you could say to yourself, Ah, the left
wing wokeness. We're finally seeing exactly what they really think
(16:23):
during this holiday season.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
And also, would anybody believe if somebody had a white's
only Christmas party and the mayor came out and they
were like, hey, you know, this was just an email error.
You know when we said only white people can come,
that was a total with We actually meant everybody could
come when we said only white people can't come.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's kind of pretty intentional.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And it's just so tone death and stupid that only
somebody who is woke could make this mistake, right, I
don't think that anybody else would even try this.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
And somebody said it is good. The Boston Globe is
not even covering this hardly buck.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Well, you think about how they would cover it if
some sort of exclusion area event.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But but this goes to DEI and wokeness political correctness.
I actually like that turn too, because we built over
many years or revulsion to it. And that's wokeness is
just weaponized political correct correctness, meaning it's just the next
level of Instead of just you have to say the
nice things or else we're gonna get mad at you,
it's say the crazy things or will fire you. Right,
it's just an escalation. But it all is self contradictory.
(17:26):
And you see this we mentioned yesterday on college campus
is the notion of having separate housing for racial minorities
on campus. I mean, Clay, that is so racist unless
Democrats and left wingers do it, and then it's somehow
creating safe spaces for those minorities to thrive. We say, wait,
a whole lot of second, which which one is it?
(17:47):
You know, I mean it's a totally broken Yeah, there's
no actual principle. It is just the the capricious wielding
of power.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
And that's really what's at the heart of all this.
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Speaker 4 (18:56):
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines. Welcome back, everybody.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Clay and I we we we talk and strategize and
UH and go back and forth in the breaks and
and we just wanted to say, if anyone's joining us,
UH live right now. And you missed last hour, Governor
Christie came on the show, and you know, I think
it was an interesting exchange.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
You know, we always want to be.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Able to be a place where people who are Republicans
can come on and make their case and we let
them speak. It's tough, you know, on radio, because we
got a lot of you know, uh, govern.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Christie likes to talk. I like to talk.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Clay certainly not shy about talking. So you know, we
we try to give them their say, but we don't uh,
we don't also want to let them filibuster. And I
would just go back to for me, you know, and
I want people to go back and listen to it
if you missed it. But the part where I think
anybody who was open minded, which is less than half
(19:59):
of the GOP electorate, I would say, but open minded
to the possibility of a because if you're a trump
port and it's even less if you're a Trumper of
Aveak person, I think you have no interest in Governor Christie.
If you're a and this is just my opinion, but
you know I'm right. If you are a desantist person,
I think you have pretty much no interest in Governor
(20:21):
Christie as well. I think it's only the only crossover
is whatever his numbers are. It's like eleven percent in
New Hampshire or something right now, right, and Nicky Haley
right now, that's it for him. It's Nicky Haley and
Governor Christie. So he said he's not endorsing her, and
there's not some you know, secret plan or anything. Okay, fine,
but that's the wing of the GOP that they have
to work with. And when he said the thing about parents'
(20:44):
rights when it comes to transgender surgery for minors, I mean, Clay,
I just I wish we had more time, and I
don't wanna, you know, I don't want to do the
thing what you do where you you know, you attack
somebody's argument.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
We're not attacking him. We're attacking his argument.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
But I mean, come on, man, like you know, by
the way, I do think it's interesting because I brought
up the issue of disciplining children. There are lines actually,
and it is child abuse to you know, to strike
your child and create damage and physical pain. Right, I
mean giving someone a tap on the butt or something
as a you know, as a spank is a little
bit different. We draw these lines. You know, if you
(21:22):
tap somebody on the shoulder. That's not punching them in
the face. But you don't get to say, you know,
I burn my child with a hot iron because that's
how I think discipline should be.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, I thought there were two things that stood out
to me from the Chris Christi interview. One is the
trans issue, which I just think he's wrong on. And
I think, you know, you can sum it up really
well by just in almost every state in America, if
you take a child and you get them a tattoo,
you get a permanent etching on their body, and they
(21:52):
are thirteen or fourteen years old. First of all, that's
not permissible in most states. That would be something that
a parent could be charged they crime for. So if
in our reasoned, knowledgeable basis of understanding parenting and parenting rights,
we have said, hey, a thirteen or a fourteen year
old shouldn't be allowed to get a permanent tattoo, and
(22:14):
a parent who takes someone to a tattoo parlor to
get that done can be held criminally responsible for doing so,
how in the world can we simultaneously say the same
parent could take their kid to a doctor and get
and I'm sorry, it's some graphic to some people, but
the breasts of a thirteen or fourteen year old girl
(22:37):
chopped off.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Crime mean some of these love the tattoo comparison.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And I mean, but the people that are arguing for
transgender surgery for miners are arguing that it's a medically
necessary procedure. No one argues that a tattoo is a
medically necessary procedure. It's a physical adornment.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
But the way that I look at it is, we
don't allow bodies to be permanently altered by by minors. Yeah,
but I mean if a kid had an infection in
his foot and you had to amputate his foot, you know, yeah,
we do allow you know, that's medically necessary. No one
getting a flaming dragon on your shoulder is going to
save your life is but it's yes, No one I
don't believe can argue that this is medically necessary.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
And so I think that's a tough position.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But but the left doesn't even advocate for The left
does argue that the transgender surgery for minors is very
it's medically necessary, it is essential to their basic humanity.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
It's a civil rights struggle.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So that's the only place where I think, I mean,
to your point, it's like we have rules about things
that are much lesser in importance, that are that are
enforced for minors.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Parent rights are restricted when it comes to changing the
kid's bodies all the time.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
And the truth is, you know, and look, obviously there's
different levels here.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
But you know, yeah, like technically if a parent is
out with their with their you know, nineteen year old
and orders wine for the table, like, is that legal?
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Though technically that's not legal.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
We don't lock people up for that, and you know,
I think there's some understandable and prosecutorial discretion and you know,
it would be crazy to bother a parent about that,
but it is technically illegal, right, I mean you can't.
You can't serve your nineteen year old kid alcohol at
home or in public, yes, which I mean, I think
it makes sense. I think the drinking age should be eighteen.
(24:16):
I have a whole others. You know, I think the
drinking age being twenty. Why not make it thirty? I mean,
the whole thing is absurd. But you know, I think
that you really run into problems when you're going to
allow a I mean, the real issue here, Clay is
it is actually a mental illness, and it is never
medically necessary to change your biology to suit some psychological need.
(24:39):
That's actually the center of the fight, right. The medical
necessity is everything, because if it is a medical necessity,
then it's in a different category than drinking or tattoos
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
And the other one that stood out to me buck
Associated was he said he would prosecute Donald Trump if
he were a United States attorney, which I don't know
that he said that regular.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I know that to me is crazy. That's great.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Well, I mean I was gonna ask this question, and
we again, we ran out of time, and I encourage
anyone who didn't hear it go back download the iHeartRadio app.
You can listen to the podcast on de Man. We'll
have it up probably by the time you're even listening to.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Us live here.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
But I was gonna ask him, well, would you would
you if you you know, he's obviously not the prosecutor, right,
I was gonna ask him, would you pardon Donald Trump
if you became president, which one is not going to.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Happen, right, He's not going to become president, but whatever.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But I can't even ask that question because clearly, if
he would prosecute Donald Trump. He's not going to pardon
Donald Trump, right, So wow, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And I think the key there is and this is
where I think he's on the bidding of the enemy Clay.
It's very sorry to inter up, but it's very frustrating.
You know, he used to be a Republican, but to
make that decision, regardless of what you think about Trump,
to set the precedent of trying to put the chief
political rival of the sitting president of the United States
(25:58):
in prison for the rest of his life. For anybody
who studies the law, whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or
an independent, I just think it's an incredibly irrational decision
that is going to lead to more instability in our country.
And don't think that Trump is going to be the
last that is used as an example here. They're trying
to set the precedent that they can do this.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I also like to remind people because I feel like
this doesn't get talked about much. Donald Trump, by his
own public admission, in twenty sixteen, decided to leave the
Hillary email situation alone. And because she broke the law,
and I know plenty of federal prosecutors I personally know
(26:41):
federal prosecutors who have told me I would have charged
that case.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
They wouldn't have locked.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Her up for twenty years or whatever, but they would
have made her take a plea deal, admit guilt, you know,
be unable to hold the clearance.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Again, you know, I don't know, maybe thirty days or something.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
And they send people to jail for a lot for
some things with classified information. Point being though, there should
have been some admission of wrongdoing and guilt made because
she definitely was under the recklessness component in that statute,
if there is such a thing as recklessness. And Donald
Trump made the decision for all of the Oh Trump
is hitler, and you know, yeah, and he's kind of
a brass knuckles guy. He said it's best for the
(27:19):
country to leave this alone. He could he could have
sent his attorney general after Hillary. I know that we
were told that never happens. It happens, folks, look at
this administration. He could have done that, nobody would have known.
But he didn't do it because it wasn't in the
interest of the country to prosecute his chief political rival.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Joe Biden is doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, and look, there are people who were upset with
Trump because he was actually too generous. Some people thought
too Hillary, after all the lock her up chance, But
I think he was right on the president of Hey,
let's let the elections decide who the president is. And
you can't try and put your chief political adversary in prison.
I think it is absolutely unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And I guess also just for me, I mean, this
really is what comes across when I see when I
would see Christy on stage. You know, he's making this
case about Donald Trump and how he's not fit and
everything else. And I sit here and I go, you know,
what really determines fitness the electorate and the guys.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
That's the entire purpose of a democratic system.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, so this this argument, oh he's not fit, I
sit here and I say, I mean, he was a
really good president and the country was in much better shape.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
There's no question about that, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
And whenever I start to say this too, I'm honestly
really sick of I get some of the DeSantis uh,
you know supporters in the audience. Oh, you're on for Trump,
we said here, and we're just living in reality, folks.
DeSantis is a phenomenal governor. Phenomenal governor of the state
of Florida, a true conservative, a brilliant guy. I think
DeSantis is great. I think Trump is great. I think
Vivek is really interesting in a music and very smart.
(28:56):
Like I mean, I like these people. I'm not going
to try one for the benefit of the other. Obviously
we don't endorse here, but when I see Governor Christy,
I just feel like he's turned into Captain Ahab And
you know, Trump is the white whale for him, and
it's just it's not about the country anymore. For a
lot of these people. They it's like a Trump derangement
(29:17):
syndrome thing. And I would have said this to him,
And we'll have him back at some point, although a
lot of gonna yellow us for having him on at all,
but I will have him back because I think it's
important to fight it out on some of these issues.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
You know, that's for me.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Look, if you just want people to and I would
put the Christy conversation we had in the same category
we did with Mike Pince. If we have disagreements with candidates,
do you want us to just pretend that everything is
hunky dory? I think you actually conflict is good. That's
how you reach a resolution. I think Christy's really wrong
(29:49):
on prosecuting Trump, and I think he's really wrong on
the trans kit issue. And I can't get past both
of those because to me, they are integral questions that ever,
everyone who is voting in the presidential primary, whether you're
a Democrat or Republican, should want the answer on and.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I will, I will give credit, and this will get
me some booze from the from the from the bleachers.
He's willing to come on and fight it out a
little bit. You know, there are other credit we give
credit to anybody.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I mean, you guys should see.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
You know, we try to get Mitch McConnell when he
sells out to come on and you know, crickets, that's
never gonna happen, right, And we try to get some
of these people to come on the show. So at
least credit to people who are willing to come on
and defend their In this case, I mean, the trans
kid thing is just that's just a non starter for
the GOP. I don't know, I don't know why he's
so wrong on that. I know he hates Trump, I
(30:38):
get that, Why is he so wrong on the trans
kid thing. I don't see why he doesn't understand that
issue more clearly, and as a.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Parent of four kids, I don't know if it's sometimes
you're influenced by the community you're in more so than
you are what your own logic would lead you. Again,
if you're over eighteen and you decide that you want
to change your gender, I don't think that's probably gonna
make you a lot happier personally, But I think you
should be able to make as an adult decisions for
your life. The idea that we let any kid do
(31:06):
it to me is just absolutely indefensible, and I think
it's disqualifying. If you're a Republican candidate, won't say that
New Year, great time to reset, get some goals for
the next one. And one of your goals, how about
getting more out of your day. Get yourself hooked up
with a subscription of Chalk, whether it's the Male or
Female Vitality Stack set of supplements, or their newest pro
(31:26):
to product, chad Mode, which buck you have tried out
and the first time you took chad Mode, you look
like you're ready to run through a wall when you
set down to do the show was.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like Hulk Hogan back in the day, ripping my shirt
off all at once. Not quite as jacked as Hulk Hogan,
but I'm working on it. Thanks to Chad Mode.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
No doubt. You can try that out.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You can also get hooked up with all natural testosterone
right from Chalk.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
You'll get hooked up. You'll love it.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Get yourself set up with Chalk this week. Go online
Chalk dot com. That's spelled with a Q. See hoq
dot com. You can use my name Clay to save
thirty five percent off any Chalk subscription you choose for life.
You can cancel at any time that choq dot com
and my name Clay as the promo code thirty five
(32:16):
percent off cchoq dot com.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
My name Clay.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Get hooked up today, download and used then you Clayan
Fuck app.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Listen to the program live, catch up on any part
of the show you might have missed. Find every podcast
as they're released and listen.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Fine the Clay and Buck app in your app store
and make it part of your days. Welcome back in
closing up shop here Friday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show.
I appreciate all of you hanging out with us as
we are rolling through and encourage you to go subscribe
to the podcast. In Theory Buck, I am soon to
depart for Australia with my three kids and my wife,
(32:56):
but the Travis household has been torn asunder this morning.
Our flight to Australia was canceled this morning, so I
have no earthly idea what the travel situation is actually
going to look like. And this is not an easy
flight to take in the first place. So I think
and am hopeful that we are still going to be
(33:17):
able to get to Australia, and if we do, then
I will be there for Christmas and New Years and
be back with you guys after the first of the year.
But it's also possible we don't go anywhere. So this
is like a whole bit frustrated. You can't abandon We
got a few things here. First of all, I'm sure
we got a few pilots in the audience here who
could probably swoop over. It's a sixteen hour flight. I'm
not asking for a you know, a quick stop over here.
(33:41):
There's a lot of true specific.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
You're not you're not running late for the big game
in Tuscaloosa or something like You're gonna.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Have mentioned this earlier in the show, so evidently Delta
canceled our flight because we had an American flight to
get us to la and somehow some idiot at Delta
canceled our flight to Sydney, Australia, and so now we're scrambling.
Canceled the flight still exist, they just canceled our reservation.
(34:07):
I don't know how this is even possible, but the
house has been a total mess as we're trying to
get all this resolved in time to be able to
get there.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
So I don't I've never even heard of this happening.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
They just said, hey, you don't have a We took
all five of your tickets and sold them to someone else,
and now you don't have a flight to Australia.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Sean might be stuck in.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't know if if Hannity's plane is to be
fair even big enough to get to Australia. This is
like a fifteen or sixteen hour flight, So Delta stop
at a few Pacific islands, it'll be fine. I don't
know how Delta is this incompetent. I don't know how
they have managed to screw this up, but evidently we
don't have flights now, so so I could be in
La and just hanging out. So, you know, maybe we'll
(34:55):
go to UH to go check out the Hollywood Sign
and the Walk of Fame and Grummin Theater and all
that area.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
LA.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You know, there's plenty of places to sleep in LA.
They'll let you sleep anywhere, so so who knows.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, you could theoretically turn this into a family camping trip.
At the Hollywood Sign, we could camp. We could go
to Santa Monica, which is lovely. We could sleep right
on the beach in a tent. I could probably get
my boy Gavin Newsom to swing by. We could have
a nice chardonnay, maybe a nice reestling, and just chill
and watch the waves crash.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
So I don't know if he would get there.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I don't know if he would cuddle you by the sunset.
Gavin Newsom quite the same way after you trashed him
when DeSantis gave him that beatdown.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Hey, it wasn't just me trashing him. His own wife
wouldn't let him continue to debate. If your wife throws
in the towel on your debate, that is not a
good sign for you for how things have been going.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I'll just toss that out.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So have you gotten any good, any any particularly interesting
or noteworthy Australia travel advice that you wish to share
with the broader audience across America.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Here.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, so I've actually gotten tons of good advice because
a lot of the Fox people are off so Murdo
so yeah. Uh and a lot of the top executives
at Box are Australians. So my good friend Ed Hartman,
who is at AUSSI, has married an American girl.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
But I told him, I was like, okay, so if
you were taking your family, you know Australia, well, obviously
you're born and raised there, you've lived there for much
of your life. Where do we need to go and
what do we need to see? And he the one
thing he said was Air's Rock, which I think they've
renamed to like Ularu or whatever the new name of
it is to make sure that they don't offend people.
It's a monster trip into the center part of the country.
(36:35):
And he said, by and large, that's not worth making
that massive trip.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, see how it all goes. But we think Clay's
gonna have a great vacation as it stands right now.
Marie's Christmas to everybody. By the way, I should say
an Happy New Year.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Yeap.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That stands right now. I'll be at the helm here
next week, so things are gonna get wild. I'll be
here solo, but let's hope Clay makes this flight all right.
Talk to you Monday,
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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