April 4, 2024 • 36 mins
Blinken: Biden calls for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. No Labels won't run a presidential candidate. Mike Rowe, TV host, author, podcaster and CEO of mikeroweWORKS Foundation, joined Clay and Buck to discuss the Gen-Z trend of forsaking college for trades, making six figures without a college degree.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. We've got a lot
to dive into. I want to update you on a
story that we started off the show with a couple
of different stories. One Biden has called. We were just
talking about this at the top of the last hour.
Biden has, according to reports, called for an immediate ceasefire
(00:29):
in Gaza during a phone conversation with Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin net Yahoo. That is according to the Wall Street Journal.
And here's the opening paragraph. President Biden called Thursday for
an immediate ceasefire. The White House said, so they have
officially demanded a ceasefire in Gaza. Buck and we can
(00:52):
talk about the complexities that this continues to create for
Biden because a huge part of the coalition that voted
for him to be president was both Jewish and Arab
voters in particular. And I've been hammering on this because
I know the state pretty well because my wife is
from Michigan. I've spent a decent amount of time there.
Huge huge southeastern Michigan. Arab support for Biden in the Dearborn,
(01:19):
Michigan area ham Trammick. That area also a large Jewish population, Detroit,
Oakland County, that whole area of Michigan. There's a large
Jewish population in southeast Michigan, also a large Arab voting population.
It's going to be hard for Biden to finesse this issue,
(01:39):
and I would imagine there are a lot of Jewish
people out there who when they hear that Biden is
now demanding a ceasefire in Gaza, are not going to
be happy about that. So that is a big story.
I think there's going to be major fallout. What is
your reaction. I think this is the first time that
he's officially demanded publicly that there be a ceasefire He
said that he's in favor of it before. I don't
(02:01):
know that he's demanded it publicly before a ceasefire until
when and for what purpose? Gaza still I mean Hamas
in Gaza still has hostages one hundred I believe. Yeah,
they still have fighters who were involved in or directed,
which is should be treated as the same thing. If
you were involved in the plotting of October seventh, you
(02:21):
should be every bit as considered a combatant, and the
use of lethal force is just as appropriate as anybody
who is actually there. Uh So, it's just politics, it's posturing,
and I would hope that the Jewish American community is
really paying attention to this.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Beyond.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
We have a lot of Jews who are listening to
us right now who already see this for what it is,
and who are conservative or who are right of center.
But I'm talking about the more left and liberal leading
component of the Jewish American vote, our voters. I hope
they're seeing this and understanding that when push comes to shove,
the Biden administration will the knee to the most radical,
(03:02):
anti Semitic and insane components of their multicultural leftist coalition.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Here's Tony Blinken cut thirty demanding an easy, immediate ceasefire.
Tony blinkn of course Secretary of State, who claimed that
the Hunter Biden laptop had all the hallmarks of Russian
disinformation and has been a water carrier for Biden in
his lives for a long time. But here is what
Blincoln said about that immediate ceasefire.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
He underscored as well that an immediate ceasefire is essential
to stabilize and improve the Mandataryan situation and protectedness and
civilians and herge. Prime Minister Denao to empower his negotiators
to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages
home and Jeer leaders also discussed public Iranian threats against
Israel and the Israeli people. President Biden reaffirmed the United
(03:51):
States strong support for Israel in the face of these
feats and our commitment to Israel's security Right now, it
is no higher priority in Gaza and protecting civilians, surging
Umaniterran assistance, and ensuring the security of those who provide it.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
Israel must meet this moment.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
This is I don't know how this ends well for Biden.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I really don't buck because as soon as you pull
back in Gaza, Hamas is set up to do some
sort of additional terror attack, and then the United States
is in some way bought onto the culpability because if
they listen to us and stop pursuing the murderers of
October seventh, then we're giving them the opportunity to basically
(04:44):
rehabilitate their infrastructure when they know that they're not going
to be attacked and try to create an opportunity for
another attack. We know they're not going to stop, and
so this is I don't know. I don't think this
is going to go away, and I just look at
it and say it it's scary. But if Hamas attacked
again in October, right before our election, I know we
(05:05):
talk about October surprises as it relates to United States occurrences,
this has the potential to.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Throw everything into an uproar, even in our election.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Also, there are some things that I think are left
out of this discussion, like has anyone in Hamas or
just Palestinian leadership more broadly condemned what happened on October
seventh as monstrous, immoral and outside the bounds of even
war itself. No, no, they don't. If you saw and
(05:39):
this is you know, I would love we should reach
out to our friend Doug Murray, who was over there
and was doing such good work at the beginning of
the conflict. I haven't texted a little while. I'll text him,
but he would I'm sure I shouldn't speak for but
I'm sure he would agree with this. If people only
knew how much support there is in Gaza for what
happened to the Israeli on October seventh. I think that
(06:01):
would feel very differently about this conflict because the answer
is that there's overwhelming support for it. Just look at
all the polling data you can see about their feelings
about the state of Israel and suicide bombing against Israel.
And you know, I'm not saying all of them support it, obviously,
but it'd be a big number. It'd be an appallingly
high number of people. And you know, that's that's where
(06:24):
I think people need to understand. I mean, these these
societies that are operating in the West Bank and the
Gaza Strip, are particularly at Gaza.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
West Bank is a somewhat different situation in some ways.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
But Hamas runs it as a totalitarian jie hottiest fiefdom,
and this this filters through all of all of society there.
I mean, I've been to the West Bank. I haven't
been to Gaza for obvious reasons. And if people think
that this is just oh, both sides do bad things,
(06:57):
sometimes they don't understand the Israelis actually have some accountability,
some morality, some decency even in the conduct of warfare,
and Israelis are held to account by their own people.
By their own government for it. In with Hamas, anything goes,
anything goes. There's nothing that is too brutal, there is
nothing that is too vicious. It is impossible to think
(07:19):
of anything that would be beyond the scope. As long
as it is harming and killing and mutilating Jews, Hamas
is for it, and people need to understand that that
is true. And Hamas is the elected government of Gaza.
The people of Gaza are suffering, yes, but some of
that suffering is brought on by having Hamas as you
are elected representatives. You know, we bombed a lot of
(07:42):
cities in Nazi Germany, a lot of people died. We
bombed a lot of cities in Japan. The fire bombing
of Tokyo was a pretty horrific business. This is war,
this is what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And again, I think the analogy that's easy for a
lot of you to comprehend. And I would suggest you
share with people, because maybe share it with your kids
and your grandkids, because a lot of them are saying, oh,
it's so sad, what's happening to the people in Gaza.
Do you think the United States would stop until we
had eradicated anyone that traveled across our borders and murdered
(08:17):
twelve hundred of our citizens. Do you think we would say, oh,
we got most of those cartel guys, but man, we
accidentally hit a Red Cross truck and now we've got
to have an immediate cease fire to allow the cartel
members to hide and get back.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I just it wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And if you're not willing to apply the same standard
for Israel being able to defend itself that you would
apply for the United States to be able to defend itself,
I would just ask you why that is. I think
that's an analogy that is particularly apropos and I don't
think there's a very good argument for why that shouldn't
be the case. So we wanted to update you with
(08:57):
the absolute latest there, and we will see how Israel responds.
I can't imagine that Benjamin met Yahoo is going to say, Okay,
you know what, I'm sorry, you're upset. United States. We're
now going to agree to a ceasefire because, as you mentioned,
they're still one hundred and thirty terrorists, five of them
are Americans.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I believe nobody talks about it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, sorry, one hundred and thirty hostages, five of them
are Americans, and almost no one even mentions that in
the media anymore. And we now know that some of
those hostages have begun to talk about how they were
treated while they were hostages, leaving aside what happened on
October seventh. The women are saying they were raped and
they were sexually assaulted, and.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I mean, it's worse we can't describe on the air.
I mean to say they're sexually assaulted, I mean, that's true,
but it's far more severe than that. I mean, the
things that they did, and this is all on that
there are records of this, They took video of it,
so we know very well what some of the Hamas
fighters did. The most depraved and most evil stuff possible,
(10:00):
stuff that you know, the stuff that we wouldn't even
do to Nazis that we captured in the Second World War, right,
I mean, you know, you know that like stuff that
you would never even consider doing, even to the most
evil people you could find. You wouldn't do this, and
they did it to innocent women and children.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So we can't say it on the radio.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
That's a pretty good example of how awful it is.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
We can't even say it on him, And it's honestly
traumatizing even to just know. That's why I haven't really
gotten into it, and I haven't you know, described it.
I've read the accounts of it, though, Yeah, and that's
that is what we were up against. And and I
just all these people are calling for cease fire until
when yeah, right, So does that mean they get away?
Does that mean the ones who are left get away
with it?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Why?
Speaker 4 (10:39):
How is that just? Why would we ever say that
that's fair? I'm sorry, but there is not a not
a small bit of jew hatred that is unfortunately behind
a lot of particularly the early ceasefire declarations that we
were hearing from people, including in this country. And that's
a very dark underbelly of what we face. But that
is absolutely a part of this. And we're coming up
(11:01):
on the six month anniversary of those hostages being taken
six months on April the seventh. I believe I'm doing
the math correctly. So I don't think this thing is
going to resolve anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
But if anything, Biden demanding an immediate cease fire is
not certainly about what's best for Israel. It's about the
panic that Joe Biden is facing politically over how in
the world to reconcile two identity politics. Bastions of his
electorate Jewish voters and air voters, and I hope Jewish
voters in Pennsylvania are attention. I hope Jewish Jewish voters
(11:33):
in all Ranger states are watching what's going on here
and understanding because it's not like Biden's doing this on
some principle. Biden is turning on them.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Because the multi cultural left that he needs as part
of his Democrat coalition is full of people who hate Jews.
We've seen that on the protest. There's a lot of that,
a lot of anti Semitism, and he wants to placate them,
and that is what is going on here. So ends
a man of no principle finds a man of no backupbone.
(12:03):
He's going to do exactly what he thinks is beneficial
to him in the moment, and right now he thinks
it's politically beneficial to stab Israel and then Yahoo right
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Speaker 1 (13:38):
Twenty four on you podcast from Clay and Buck covering
all things election, episodes drama Sundays at noon Eastern. Find
it on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
All right, welcome back to Clay and Buck. We got
mic ro you alm micro God's got an amazing point.
Great for radio, great voice for radio. As you can say,
he is going.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
To be joining us in just a few minutes to
talk about really interesting peace in the Wall Street Journal
looking at how you know, Conservatives often talk about, you know,
we should really encourage trade school people can make you know,
skilled plumbers, skilled electricians. You can make six figures pretty
quickly actually and not be six figures in debt from
(14:22):
your degree in you know, lgbt Q I A plus
literature of the seventeenth century Caribbean or something. I mean,
you know, you actually can do something that makes you
money and you build a skill set, and that doesn't
mean you can't do more education later on. It doesn't
mean you can't get involved in other businesses and become
a real estate investor or become a you know, get
(14:44):
involved in funding companies or whatever you want to do.
But in your twenties, you know it's a good way
to Anyway, we'll talk to Micro about it. I get
excited about it because I think it's finally starting to happen,
that people are realizing that, you know, and like I'll say,
I mean I went to Clay and I both went
to expensive four year colleges, and I think I was
shocked at how little it did to actually accelerate my
(15:07):
career when I got It's no one cared, like there
was no like, oh, come right in, sir, you went
to that school, Like it's just not a thing. So anyway,
we'll dive into that with Mike Rowe. But we have
a breaking news piece here that I wanted to get
to before real quick. Clay shot this went over to
me in the break. No labels will abandon twenty twenty
four presidential campaign efforts, So Clay No.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Labels is out.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
They reached out to thirty people for their community ticket
to win the White House and everybody was like, yeah,
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That is according to the Wall Street Journal Breaking News.
And the reason why this is important is we still
don't know how all the third party candidates are going
to impact the overall election marketplace it in general. But
this No Labels group had raised seventy million dollars and
they said they had ballot access in nineteen states guaranteed,
(16:00):
and they approached a lot of people, Chris Christy, Nicki
Haley among them, Larry Hogan, who's running for Senate from Maryland.
I was afraid somebody like Mett Romney would say yes
just to try to blow up Trump's chances. They're not
going to have a candidate. So you got RFK Junior.
Whatever the Libertarians decide to do, Jill Stein, the Green
(16:20):
Party is going to be on the ballot in many
states and Cornell West in general, Buck, you and I
believe that RFK Junior hurts Trump helps Biden. That's our
read right now. But certainly Jill Stein and Carnell West.
As much as they're able to get ballot access, that
definitely hurts Biden. So really this can be a state
(16:42):
by state basis how many candidates are going to be
on the ballot, and the impact in Michigan can be
quite different than Georgia or Arizona or Nevada, depending on
how those ballots all look. But no labels, not putting
someone forward is a pretty significant news story. I would say,
given how much attention they got, it at least is
(17:03):
going to limit one more in terms of the number
of people that are out there.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Yeah, I have wondered all along where some of these
things are going.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Did you see?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Also remember Bolton, he's actually Trump's national security advisor for
a little bit. He of the Walrus style mustache fame.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
He is putting out.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
That he is, Uh, let me see, I'll actually pull
this up real quick. Put this out on on X
just a little while ago. I mean, I've exhausted all
other options, he tweets, and now I'm turning to the
American people. If I don't complete my fundraising goal, I'll
have to sit twenty twenty four out John Bolton. I
know I had that kind of irrational confidence.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I had no idea he was running well, I mean, basically,
that's waving the white flag for anybody who hates Trump
to give him a lot of money. The Lincoln Project
and all that crew that amazingly raised tens of millions
of dollars and are still going to exist, Stephen after
Trump's gone. Now, Civil War name of a new movie
coming to theaters next Friday. That's April twelfth, compelling on
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(18:10):
For those of you out there that watched The Last
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what would happen if there was a civil war. It's
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(18:31):
and Texas are on the same side. But what it
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(18:53):
I love watching movies on Imax. This one will be
out April twelfth. The movie is Civil War. Look it up,
make plans to check it out. Welcome back in play
Travis buck Sexton Show. Join now by the host of
Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe. He has done a phenomenal job, writer, narrator, producer,
Emmy Award winning best selling author.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
And that's a lot of that's a lot of aspects
out here. Mike. We appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And we were talking about it a little bit earlier,
and I was even reading, i think at the Wall
Street Journal recently, a story about people who are younger
in their twenties starting to embrace plumbing and here it playaway.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
It's how gen z is becoming the tool belt generation.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Are you optimistic, Mike, that a lot of people are
maybe stepping into jobs that they didn't foresee twenty years ago,
people being interested in.
Speaker 6 (19:49):
Well, it's a little early for a victory lap, although
I'd love to take one. We've been at this for
sixteen years now, you know, trying to challenge the idea
that the best path for the most people is the
most expensive path educationally, and also trying to shine a
light on about ten million open positions right now, very
few of which require a four year degree. These jobs
(20:10):
require training, vocational education, trade schools, and so forth. So
it's a bit like pushing a boulder up a hill,
or maybe turning around a tanker, you know, in the
middle of the ocean. Pick your metaphor. But it takes
a long time to challenge those kinds of stigmas and
stereotypes that surround the trades. This article got my attention,
(20:31):
and everybody on my social pages all tapped me on
the shoulder and said, look, this is really encouraging. You know,
it's not what a lot of people expect gen Z
to do, right. This is the generation that is most
often targeted, is lazy and entitled and spoiled and all
this other stuff. But it's like they got the memo,
(20:54):
and they've looked around and they've seen a lot of
diplomas hanging on a lot of walls and concluded quite
rightly that it's not necessarily an indication of what you've learned,
it's an indication of what you paid it's a receipt,
right and one point seven trillion dollars in student loans
is no joke. And gen Z doesn't want any part
of it. They want to learn a skill that's in demand,
(21:16):
and I think that's good news.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Hey, Mike, where do people who are thinking about this's like,
how you know, if you're somebody who's let's say you're eighteen,
you're senior in high school and you're considering it, what
are the some of the pathways? I mean there is
it just applying to trade school. There are apprenticeship programs,
and how do people learn more about, for example, what
would be a particularly in demand trade in their area
(21:39):
or particularly high paying trade in their area?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
What are the resources?
Speaker 6 (21:44):
Well, you can't possibly screw up by learning how to weld.
Welding is like the gateway into the skilled trades. My
foundation has trained hundreds of welders. We've helped a couple
thousand people get the training they need to start whatever
trade they're into. So, to answer your question, microworks dot
(22:05):
org shameless plug all kinds of information on my site,
along with a million dollars right now we're giving away
next month in scholarships.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
For trade schools.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
But there's so many ways to go, Buck, I mean,
they're certainly community colleges, and they're obvious trade schools all
over the place. A lot of big companies today have
their own internal programs. You know, when we took shop
class out of high school forty years ago, we really
kind of unleash the kraken. You know, that decision removed
(22:36):
from view so many vocations, and so we went through
a period where a lot of millennials didn't even get
a look at what work looked like on that side
of the workforce anyway. So it's been a long road back.
But the resources are all over the place. Companies are
falling over themselves to hire, the opportunities to get training
(22:59):
are everywhere. I'm I can't overstate it. It's been one
of the great unreported stories in my lifetime, the skills gap,
ten million open jobs, all that opportunity sitting around. At
the same time we've been told you're screwed if you
don't get a four year degree. It's literally the opposite.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I think that's so important, Mike, because you mentioned the
one point seven trillion dollars in student loan debt. Let's
say there's an eighteen year old who's listening to us
right now, and his options are I can take out
tens of thousands of dollars in debt to get an
English major, nothing wrong with that degree, which is not
necessarily going to lead me towards being better at any
(23:41):
particular profession. Or I can go start being a plumber
at eighteen or nineteen years old. You're stacking tens of
thousands of dollars in assets, and you're starting off when
the college kids coming out at twenty two or twenty three,
in tens of thousands of dollars in debt, you could
have tens of thousands of dollars in savings. How much
do you think people are now recognizing that? And are
(24:05):
people still not aware of how much money there is
out there in plumbing or doing electrical work or all
these other things you mentioned welding. What else would you
tell people that there is abundant opportunity in if they'll
just go grab it.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
Electricians. Electricians are in super short supply. Plumbers, steam fitters,
pipe fitters, heating and air conditioning guys. I mean, I
can't even tell you if you're not making six figures
and you're in that space, you're either just getting started
or you're unwilling to go to where the work is.
But even then, I mean the work is pretty much
(24:39):
everywhere the track clay in your question is really the
reason that I'm not in politics, I can't. I'm sure
there are some eighteen year olds listening right now, but
I don't know who they are. I don't know what
their skills are, I don't know what their attitude is. Right,
and so much of what our elected officials do, and unfortunately,
(25:02):
what guidance counselors do is they paint with a really
broad brush, and you wind up hearing from a lot
of people who have a certain amount of influence that
this is what your kid should do, or this is
what you should do. And I think it's that tendency
to talk in platitudes and paint with a broad brush
that's brought us to the place where we are right now.
(25:22):
We're still a country of individuals, and your kid, your
eighteen year old kid, might very likely be wired in
a profoundly different way than mine. So I'm kind of
stingy with advice in terms of telling groups of people
what to do. But you can't ignore the big trends.
You can't ignore ten million open positions right now. You
(25:43):
can't ignore you want to hear some really horrible math.
The number that scares me more than one point seven
trillion in student loans is five every year for every
five tradesmen who retire to replace them. That's been gone
on for over a decade. And when you start to
just extrapolate that out, what you realize real fast is
(26:07):
this is not just a conversation about companies who are
struggling to recruit talent or kids who are struggling to
find a path to prosperity. This is a conversation about
how long Clay Travis and bucksex and want to wait
for a plumber when they need one, or an electrician.
Every single person listening to this has skin in the game,
(26:27):
because every one of your audience members shares my addiction
to smooth roads and affordable electricity and indoor plumbing and
a long list of other stuff that we've been taking
for granted long before Dirty Jobs went on the air.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
You know, my uncle is a tradesman and a locksmith,
like a skilled locksmith with the specialty stuff for you know, corporations,
and my brother in law is actually a welder. Carrie's
brothers a welder, and one thing I hear from both
of them is they just don't have the time to
do all the jobs that people want them to do,
which is not a thing you often hear from that
many folily. There's so many offers to do different work
(27:04):
in different places that they can't get to it all. So, Mike,
I mean, I'm experiencing that for my own, you know,
extended family, what they're seeing out there, I'm just wondering
to what degree. Also, when you're you know, you're the
CEO of Mike Roworks Foundation, you're encouraging young people to
go into this, but you know, entrepreneurship, small business ownership.
I mean, it's been my experience from people I know,
some of whom have become very successful business owners, that
(27:27):
a lot of them start by working for a business
in the trades.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
And this is this is part of the sort of
the disaster scenario. When we took shop Class out, we
also impacted not just the skilled workforce, but the the
entrepreneurial gene. The path to a small business so often
begins with the mastery of a trade. I mentioned welding before,
(27:56):
because you know. I know people who are underwater weld today.
They make three hundred thousand dollars a year. I know
others who are tig welders, you know, who are making
one hundred grand. And I know some who are making
less than that and are basically punching a clock. But
the most interesting cohort are the welders who hired another welder,
(28:18):
or more likely hired an electrician and some HVAC guys
and then bought a couple of vans and started a
mechanical contracting company. Those guys are everywhere, and they are
the engine of our economy, and their success stories aren't
told nearly enough because they start by doing something that
so many parents have come to believe as a vocational
(28:40):
consolation prize. I don't want my kid to be a welder.
The hell you don't, man, I can give you example
after example, and Buck, just a quick sidebar. I don't
know if you'll remember this, but I saw you ten
years ago. I think you were filling in for Beck
and you did a story on one of them my
favorite stories of all time. Nobody talks about it today,
(29:03):
but it was a message to Garcia. It was a
story about initiative, and it's a story about work ethic,
and it's a story about the willingness to cheerfully take
hold of a thing and lift. That's part of this
conversation too. And my foundation, you know, we award work
ethics scholarships because we're not just looking to fill an
(29:25):
existing hole. We're looking to find people who are willing
to show up early, stay late, take a bite of
the crap sandwich, cheerfully, volunteer for whatever task is at
hand that's still for sale, that still works. And if
gen Z is the cohort that steps up to do
that with the tool belt and a new understanding of
(29:46):
what a good job is, God bless them, Mike.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Last question for you. You mentioned parents are grandparents. How
much encouragement do you see from them? And I know
there's a lot of people out there that are worried
their kids are not working hard enough, maybe they're not
making great grades in school, but they do have that
work ethic and they're trying to find a way. I
think most people have no idea that you can make
six figures doing a lot of these jobs. Do you
(30:09):
think parents and grandparents are making their kids aware enough
of that opportunity as well, or do you think they've
been sold the idea that only success comes from the
pathway of college. You can't do anything else.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Again, I hate to paint with a broad brush, but
the short answer is yeah, by and large, we have
an idea in our head about what a good job
looks like. And look, most parents also want something better
for their kids than whatever they had. The problem is
what is better? Right? I mean, we get to decide
(30:43):
how much debt is good. We get to decide if work,
for instance, is the proximate cause of our unhappiness. There's
a very popular narrative in this country right now that
says that it is. That's why you'll see support for
Bernie Sanders thirty two hour work week crazy. But if
you believe in your heart that the reason you're unhappy
(31:06):
is because you're working too much, or if you believe,
like genuinely believe in your heart that you're going to
be happy when you retire, then you've bought into an
existing narrative that is in fact persuasive. And it's persuasive
because it's mirrored constantly in sitcoms and movies and advertisements.
We are surrounded by this idea that work is the enemy,
(31:30):
and that you're a failure if you're a parent, if
you don't get your kid into a proper school. So yeah,
I would say to parents who believe that you might
be right. Maybe your kid is exactly wired to do
all of those things, but you might be wrong. Put
all the options on the table, have an honest conversation
(31:50):
about the realities of debt and the advantage of learning
a skill that's in demand. My final thought is, you
know this. I'm holding myself in my hand right now,
and I'm looking at it because that is a liberal
arts education, and it's free. All the information I learned
when I was in school in nineteen eighty four is
(32:11):
right there. Man. If you're curious and you really want
to learn whatever whatever floats your boat, you can watch
a lecture on it right now for free at MIT
or Brown or Yale.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's all there.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
Learn a skill first, master a trade, go to work,
get rich.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Mike, what's the website? One more time for anyone listening case.
I think some people listening are really interested in following
up and learning more.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Mike ro Dire, Okay, I believe is the website micro
dot org? He was fantastic. You gave him the last
line there, but man, I know people love that. We'll
take some of your reactions as we close up. Shop Buck,
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Speaker 1 (33:41):
Sometimes all you can do is laugh, and they do
a lot of it with the Sunday Hang join Clay
and Buck as they laugh it up in the Klay
and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Welcome back in Clay and Buck your closing up shop today.
And I just want to say we had such a
really good conversation there with Microw of micro Works, and
you know, when you start saying things, I think I'm
glad he throws the numbers in there. We're talking about
trade school. I know we have a lot of trade
school listener, or rather people who went to trade school
who are listeners when you're trying to make the two
(34:17):
or three hundred grand and being in a field where
you're not just making that money, but you can make
that money in a lot of different places all over
the country, and you can find a job doing that
pretty much wherever you want. You know, I mean skilled electricians,
skilled welder, HVAC systems.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Things like that.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
That's compelling, you know, or you know, there's there's some
other jobs I could tell you you don't want to
do where you need a four year college degree or
a lot of those out there.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Well, not only that, I love the one.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
The salaries matter because I think it gets a lot
of sixteen seventeen, eighteen year old in particular, like their
their ears kind of perk up because they're starting to
recognize what things cost. I think a lot of people
in their early twenties as well. But I love the
idea of you learn the business yourself while working for someone,
and then you're able to build your own business. And
(35:05):
and they're these jobs. You know this, they're great. You
get out of an office. One of the worst things
about a lot of jobs, you're sitting at a desk.
You don't have the ability to have a normal wife.
Getting out and about during the day is is pretty healthy.
I think getting people.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
My dad has a longtime friend who is older.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
You know, he's got a French guy and probably his
late seventies now, who started out in the restaurant industry
as a busboy in a French restaurant in Paris, came
to New York, came to New York City, had nothing.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And he still tells stories.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
He's like, I was working sixteen hour a day, I
was making pennies. I was struggling's a hot, sweaty kitchen.
And now he's got like five restaurants that are franchised
that he owns a piece of he's making seven figures.
You know, It's like sometimes working anything is the best
way to learn how to do it at a bigger
level down the line, whatever that industry, whatever that field
(35:57):
may be. So we have some great v emails. We'll
get to these tomorrow. Team, let's hold some of these
over because I meant to get to it now. We
went a little along with Mike. I think you all
understand and appreciate why we went along with Mike. That
was an important conversation. He's such a compelling storyteller, makes me,
makes me want to get out there and you know,
learn learn how to do some cool stuff, learn how
to do blowing glass or welding or something.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
What was amazing is that that story in the Wall
Street Journal that he referenced.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
There are a lot of.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
People coming to the conclusion that what he's been selling
makes a great deal of sense. And I think a
lot of you out there listening have kids, grandkids, maybe
you yourself. You're thinking to yourself, i'd make six figures
doing a job like that.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
What am I doing with my life? Maybe explore it
Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck
Sexton Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us. We've got a lot
to dive into. I want to update you on a
story that we started off the show with a couple
of different stories. One Biden has called. We were just
talking about this at the top of the last hour.
Biden has, according to reports, called for an immediate ceasefire
(00:29):
in Gaza during a phone conversation with Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin net Yahoo. That is according to the Wall Street Journal.
And here's the opening paragraph. President Biden called Thursday for
an immediate ceasefire. The White House said, so they have
officially demanded a ceasefire in Gaza. Buck and we can
(00:52):
talk about the complexities that this continues to create for
Biden because a huge part of the coalition that voted
for him to be president was both Jewish and Arab
voters in particular. And I've been hammering on this because
I know the state pretty well because my wife is
from Michigan. I've spent a decent amount of time there.
Huge huge southeastern Michigan. Arab support for Biden in the Dearborn,
(01:19):
Michigan area ham Trammick. That area also a large Jewish population, Detroit,
Oakland County, that whole area of Michigan. There's a large
Jewish population in southeast Michigan, also a large Arab voting population.
It's going to be hard for Biden to finesse this issue,
(01:39):
and I would imagine there are a lot of Jewish
people out there who when they hear that Biden is
now demanding a ceasefire in Gaza, are not going to
be happy about that. So that is a big story.
I think there's going to be major fallout. What is
your reaction. I think this is the first time that
he's officially demanded publicly that there be a ceasefire He
said that he's in favor of it before. I don't
(02:01):
know that he's demanded it publicly before a ceasefire until
when and for what purpose? Gaza still I mean Hamas
in Gaza still has hostages one hundred I believe. Yeah,
they still have fighters who were involved in or directed,
which is should be treated as the same thing. If
you were involved in the plotting of October seventh, you
(02:21):
should be every bit as considered a combatant, and the
use of lethal force is just as appropriate as anybody
who is actually there. Uh So, it's just politics, it's posturing,
and I would hope that the Jewish American community is
really paying attention to this.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Beyond.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
We have a lot of Jews who are listening to
us right now who already see this for what it is,
and who are conservative or who are right of center.
But I'm talking about the more left and liberal leading
component of the Jewish American vote, our voters. I hope
they're seeing this and understanding that when push comes to shove,
the Biden administration will the knee to the most radical,
(03:02):
anti Semitic and insane components of their multicultural leftist coalition.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Here's Tony Blinken cut thirty demanding an easy, immediate ceasefire.
Tony blinkn of course Secretary of State, who claimed that
the Hunter Biden laptop had all the hallmarks of Russian
disinformation and has been a water carrier for Biden in
his lives for a long time. But here is what
Blincoln said about that immediate ceasefire.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
He underscored as well that an immediate ceasefire is essential
to stabilize and improve the Mandataryan situation and protectedness and
civilians and herge. Prime Minister Denao to empower his negotiators
to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages
home and Jeer leaders also discussed public Iranian threats against
Israel and the Israeli people. President Biden reaffirmed the United
(03:51):
States strong support for Israel in the face of these
feats and our commitment to Israel's security Right now, it
is no higher priority in Gaza and protecting civilians, surging
Umaniterran assistance, and ensuring the security of those who provide it.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
Israel must meet this moment.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
This is I don't know how this ends well for Biden.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I really don't buck because as soon as you pull
back in Gaza, Hamas is set up to do some
sort of additional terror attack, and then the United States
is in some way bought onto the culpability because if
they listen to us and stop pursuing the murderers of
October seventh, then we're giving them the opportunity to basically
(04:44):
rehabilitate their infrastructure when they know that they're not going
to be attacked and try to create an opportunity for
another attack. We know they're not going to stop, and
so this is I don't know. I don't think this
is going to go away, and I just look at
it and say it it's scary. But if Hamas attacked
again in October, right before our election, I know we
(05:05):
talk about October surprises as it relates to United States occurrences,
this has the potential to.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Throw everything into an uproar, even in our election.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Also, there are some things that I think are left
out of this discussion, like has anyone in Hamas or
just Palestinian leadership more broadly condemned what happened on October
seventh as monstrous, immoral and outside the bounds of even
war itself. No, no, they don't. If you saw and
(05:39):
this is you know, I would love we should reach
out to our friend Doug Murray, who was over there
and was doing such good work at the beginning of
the conflict. I haven't texted a little while. I'll text him,
but he would I'm sure I shouldn't speak for but
I'm sure he would agree with this. If people only
knew how much support there is in Gaza for what
happened to the Israeli on October seventh. I think that
(06:01):
would feel very differently about this conflict because the answer
is that there's overwhelming support for it. Just look at
all the polling data you can see about their feelings
about the state of Israel and suicide bombing against Israel.
And you know, I'm not saying all of them support it, obviously,
but it'd be a big number. It'd be an appallingly
high number of people. And you know, that's that's where
(06:24):
I think people need to understand. I mean, these these
societies that are operating in the West Bank and the
Gaza Strip, are particularly at Gaza.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
West Bank is a somewhat different situation in some ways.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
But Hamas runs it as a totalitarian jie hottiest fiefdom,
and this this filters through all of all of society there.
I mean, I've been to the West Bank. I haven't
been to Gaza for obvious reasons. And if people think
that this is just oh, both sides do bad things,
(06:57):
sometimes they don't understand the Israelis actually have some accountability,
some morality, some decency even in the conduct of warfare,
and Israelis are held to account by their own people.
By their own government for it. In with Hamas, anything goes,
anything goes. There's nothing that is too brutal, there is
nothing that is too vicious. It is impossible to think
(07:19):
of anything that would be beyond the scope. As long
as it is harming and killing and mutilating Jews, Hamas
is for it, and people need to understand that that
is true. And Hamas is the elected government of Gaza.
The people of Gaza are suffering, yes, but some of
that suffering is brought on by having Hamas as you
are elected representatives. You know, we bombed a lot of
(07:42):
cities in Nazi Germany, a lot of people died. We
bombed a lot of cities in Japan. The fire bombing
of Tokyo was a pretty horrific business. This is war,
this is what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And again, I think the analogy that's easy for a
lot of you to comprehend. And I would suggest you
share with people, because maybe share it with your kids
and your grandkids, because a lot of them are saying, oh,
it's so sad, what's happening to the people in Gaza.
Do you think the United States would stop until we
had eradicated anyone that traveled across our borders and murdered
(08:17):
twelve hundred of our citizens. Do you think we would say, oh,
we got most of those cartel guys, but man, we
accidentally hit a Red Cross truck and now we've got
to have an immediate cease fire to allow the cartel
members to hide and get back.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I just it wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And if you're not willing to apply the same standard
for Israel being able to defend itself that you would
apply for the United States to be able to defend itself,
I would just ask you why that is. I think
that's an analogy that is particularly apropos and I don't
think there's a very good argument for why that shouldn't
be the case. So we wanted to update you with
(08:57):
the absolute latest there, and we will see how Israel responds.
I can't imagine that Benjamin met Yahoo is going to say, Okay,
you know what, I'm sorry, you're upset. United States. We're
now going to agree to a ceasefire because, as you mentioned,
they're still one hundred and thirty terrorists, five of them
are Americans.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I believe nobody talks about it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, sorry, one hundred and thirty hostages, five of them
are Americans, and almost no one even mentions that in
the media anymore. And we now know that some of
those hostages have begun to talk about how they were
treated while they were hostages, leaving aside what happened on
October seventh. The women are saying they were raped and
they were sexually assaulted, and.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I mean, it's worse we can't describe on the air.
I mean to say they're sexually assaulted, I mean, that's true,
but it's far more severe than that. I mean, the
things that they did, and this is all on that
there are records of this, They took video of it,
so we know very well what some of the Hamas
fighters did. The most depraved and most evil stuff possible,
(10:00):
stuff that you know, the stuff that we wouldn't even
do to Nazis that we captured in the Second World War, right,
I mean, you know, you know that like stuff that
you would never even consider doing, even to the most
evil people you could find. You wouldn't do this, and
they did it to innocent women and children.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
So we can't say it on the radio.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
That's a pretty good example of how awful it is.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
We can't even say it on him, And it's honestly
traumatizing even to just know. That's why I haven't really
gotten into it, and I haven't you know, described it.
I've read the accounts of it, though, Yeah, and that's
that is what we were up against. And and I
just all these people are calling for cease fire until
when yeah, right, So does that mean they get away?
Does that mean the ones who are left get away
with it?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Why?
Speaker 4 (10:39):
How is that just? Why would we ever say that
that's fair? I'm sorry, but there is not a not
a small bit of jew hatred that is unfortunately behind
a lot of particularly the early ceasefire declarations that we
were hearing from people, including in this country. And that's
a very dark underbelly of what we face. But that
is absolutely a part of this. And we're coming up
(11:01):
on the six month anniversary of those hostages being taken
six months on April the seventh. I believe I'm doing
the math correctly. So I don't think this thing is
going to resolve anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
But if anything, Biden demanding an immediate cease fire is
not certainly about what's best for Israel. It's about the
panic that Joe Biden is facing politically over how in
the world to reconcile two identity politics. Bastions of his
electorate Jewish voters and air voters, and I hope Jewish
voters in Pennsylvania are attention. I hope Jewish Jewish voters
(11:33):
in all Ranger states are watching what's going on here
and understanding because it's not like Biden's doing this on
some principle. Biden is turning on them.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Because the multi cultural left that he needs as part
of his Democrat coalition is full of people who hate Jews.
We've seen that on the protest. There's a lot of that,
a lot of anti Semitism, and he wants to placate them,
and that is what is going on here. So ends
a man of no principle finds a man of no backupbone.
(12:03):
He's going to do exactly what he thinks is beneficial
to him in the moment, and right now he thinks
it's politically beneficial to stab Israel and then Yahoo right
in the back. We'll take your calls on this. Eight
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Speaker 1 (13:38):
Twenty four on you podcast from Clay and Buck covering
all things election, episodes drama Sundays at noon Eastern. Find
it on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
All right, welcome back to Clay and Buck. We got
mic ro you alm micro God's got an amazing point.
Great for radio, great voice for radio. As you can say,
he is going.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
To be joining us in just a few minutes to
talk about really interesting peace in the Wall Street Journal
looking at how you know, Conservatives often talk about, you know,
we should really encourage trade school people can make you know,
skilled plumbers, skilled electricians. You can make six figures pretty
quickly actually and not be six figures in debt from
(14:22):
your degree in you know, lgbt Q I A plus
literature of the seventeenth century Caribbean or something. I mean,
you know, you actually can do something that makes you
money and you build a skill set, and that doesn't
mean you can't do more education later on. It doesn't
mean you can't get involved in other businesses and become
a real estate investor or become a you know, get
(14:44):
involved in funding companies or whatever you want to do.
But in your twenties, you know it's a good way
to Anyway, we'll talk to Micro about it. I get
excited about it because I think it's finally starting to happen,
that people are realizing that, you know, and like I'll say,
I mean I went to Clay and I both went
to expensive four year colleges, and I think I was
shocked at how little it did to actually accelerate my
(15:07):
career when I got It's no one cared, like there
was no like, oh, come right in, sir, you went
to that school, Like it's just not a thing. So anyway,
we'll dive into that with Mike Rowe. But we have
a breaking news piece here that I wanted to get
to before real quick. Clay shot this went over to
me in the break. No labels will abandon twenty twenty
four presidential campaign efforts, So Clay No.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Labels is out.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
They reached out to thirty people for their community ticket
to win the White House and everybody was like, yeah,
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That is according to the Wall Street Journal Breaking News.
And the reason why this is important is we still
don't know how all the third party candidates are going
to impact the overall election marketplace it in general. But
this No Labels group had raised seventy million dollars and
they said they had ballot access in nineteen states guaranteed,
(16:00):
and they approached a lot of people, Chris Christy, Nicki
Haley among them, Larry Hogan, who's running for Senate from Maryland.
I was afraid somebody like Mett Romney would say yes
just to try to blow up Trump's chances. They're not
going to have a candidate. So you got RFK Junior.
Whatever the Libertarians decide to do, Jill Stein, the Green
(16:20):
Party is going to be on the ballot in many
states and Cornell West in general, Buck, you and I
believe that RFK Junior hurts Trump helps Biden. That's our
read right now. But certainly Jill Stein and Carnell West.
As much as they're able to get ballot access, that
definitely hurts Biden. So really this can be a state
(16:42):
by state basis how many candidates are going to be
on the ballot, and the impact in Michigan can be
quite different than Georgia or Arizona or Nevada, depending on
how those ballots all look. But no labels, not putting
someone forward is a pretty significant news story. I would say,
given how much attention they got, it at least is
(17:03):
going to limit one more in terms of the number
of people that are out there.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Yeah, I have wondered all along where some of these
things are going.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Did you see?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Also remember Bolton, he's actually Trump's national security advisor for
a little bit. He of the Walrus style mustache fame.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
He is putting out.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
That he is, Uh, let me see, I'll actually pull
this up real quick. Put this out on on X
just a little while ago. I mean, I've exhausted all
other options, he tweets, and now I'm turning to the
American people. If I don't complete my fundraising goal, I'll
have to sit twenty twenty four out John Bolton. I
know I had that kind of irrational confidence.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I had no idea he was running well, I mean, basically,
that's waving the white flag for anybody who hates Trump
to give him a lot of money. The Lincoln Project
and all that crew that amazingly raised tens of millions
of dollars and are still going to exist, Stephen after
Trump's gone. Now, Civil War name of a new movie
coming to theaters next Friday. That's April twelfth, compelling on
the edge of your seat, epic thriller from filmmaker Alex Garland.
(18:10):
For those of you out there that watched The Last
of Us or even back in the day, we're fans
of Apocalypse Now. This is that style of movie. You're
gonna want to see it on the big screen. It's
about a race against time in a modern day US,
what would happen if there was a civil war. It's
a crazy, somewhat farcical story in the sense that California
(18:31):
and Texas are on the same side. But what it
attempts to do is examine the underlying tensions in the
nation today to give you a picture of what a
true civil war might look like today. Rotten Tomatoes ninety
two percent positive score cast. Kirsten Duntz, Jesse Plemons. It's
going to be entertaining. You can check it out on Imax.
(18:53):
I love watching movies on Imax. This one will be
out April twelfth. The movie is Civil War. Look it up,
make plans to check it out. Welcome back in play
Travis buck Sexton Show. Join now by the host of
Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe. He has done a phenomenal job, writer, narrator, producer,
Emmy Award winning best selling author.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
And that's a lot of that's a lot of aspects
out here. Mike. We appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And we were talking about it a little bit earlier,
and I was even reading, i think at the Wall
Street Journal recently, a story about people who are younger
in their twenties starting to embrace plumbing and here it playaway.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
It's how gen z is becoming the tool belt generation.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Are you optimistic, Mike, that a lot of people are
maybe stepping into jobs that they didn't foresee twenty years ago,
people being interested in.
Speaker 6 (19:49):
Well, it's a little early for a victory lap, although
I'd love to take one. We've been at this for
sixteen years now, you know, trying to challenge the idea
that the best path for the most people is the
most expensive path educationally, and also trying to shine a
light on about ten million open positions right now, very
few of which require a four year degree. These jobs
(20:10):
require training, vocational education, trade schools, and so forth. So
it's a bit like pushing a boulder up a hill,
or maybe turning around a tanker, you know, in the
middle of the ocean. Pick your metaphor. But it takes
a long time to challenge those kinds of stigmas and
stereotypes that surround the trades. This article got my attention,
(20:31):
and everybody on my social pages all tapped me on
the shoulder and said, look, this is really encouraging. You know,
it's not what a lot of people expect gen Z
to do, right. This is the generation that is most
often targeted, is lazy and entitled and spoiled and all
this other stuff. But it's like they got the memo,
(20:54):
and they've looked around and they've seen a lot of
diplomas hanging on a lot of walls and concluded quite
rightly that it's not necessarily an indication of what you've learned,
it's an indication of what you paid it's a receipt,
right and one point seven trillion dollars in student loans
is no joke. And gen Z doesn't want any part
of it. They want to learn a skill that's in demand,
(21:16):
and I think that's good news.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Hey, Mike, where do people who are thinking about this's like,
how you know, if you're somebody who's let's say you're eighteen,
you're senior in high school and you're considering it, what
are the some of the pathways? I mean there is
it just applying to trade school. There are apprenticeship programs,
and how do people learn more about, for example, what
would be a particularly in demand trade in their area
(21:39):
or particularly high paying trade in their area?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
What are the resources?
Speaker 6 (21:44):
Well, you can't possibly screw up by learning how to weld.
Welding is like the gateway into the skilled trades. My
foundation has trained hundreds of welders. We've helped a couple
thousand people get the training they need to start whatever
trade they're into. So, to answer your question, microworks dot
(22:05):
org shameless plug all kinds of information on my site,
along with a million dollars right now we're giving away
next month in scholarships.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
For trade schools.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
But there's so many ways to go, Buck, I mean,
they're certainly community colleges, and they're obvious trade schools all
over the place. A lot of big companies today have
their own internal programs. You know, when we took shop
class out of high school forty years ago, we really
kind of unleash the kraken. You know, that decision removed
(22:36):
from view so many vocations, and so we went through
a period where a lot of millennials didn't even get
a look at what work looked like on that side
of the workforce anyway. So it's been a long road back.
But the resources are all over the place. Companies are
falling over themselves to hire, the opportunities to get training
(22:59):
are everywhere. I'm I can't overstate it. It's been one
of the great unreported stories in my lifetime, the skills gap,
ten million open jobs, all that opportunity sitting around. At
the same time we've been told you're screwed if you
don't get a four year degree. It's literally the opposite.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I think that's so important, Mike, because you mentioned the
one point seven trillion dollars in student loan debt. Let's
say there's an eighteen year old who's listening to us
right now, and his options are I can take out
tens of thousands of dollars in debt to get an
English major, nothing wrong with that degree, which is not
necessarily going to lead me towards being better at any
(23:41):
particular profession. Or I can go start being a plumber
at eighteen or nineteen years old. You're stacking tens of
thousands of dollars in assets, and you're starting off when
the college kids coming out at twenty two or twenty three,
in tens of thousands of dollars in debt, you could
have tens of thousands of dollars in savings. How much
do you think people are now recognizing that? And are
(24:05):
people still not aware of how much money there is
out there in plumbing or doing electrical work or all
these other things you mentioned welding. What else would you
tell people that there is abundant opportunity in if they'll
just go grab it.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
Electricians. Electricians are in super short supply. Plumbers, steam fitters,
pipe fitters, heating and air conditioning guys. I mean, I
can't even tell you if you're not making six figures
and you're in that space, you're either just getting started
or you're unwilling to go to where the work is.
But even then, I mean the work is pretty much
(24:39):
everywhere the track clay in your question is really the
reason that I'm not in politics, I can't. I'm sure
there are some eighteen year olds listening right now, but
I don't know who they are. I don't know what
their skills are, I don't know what their attitude is. Right,
and so much of what our elected officials do, and unfortunately,
(25:02):
what guidance counselors do is they paint with a really
broad brush, and you wind up hearing from a lot
of people who have a certain amount of influence that
this is what your kid should do, or this is
what you should do. And I think it's that tendency
to talk in platitudes and paint with a broad brush
that's brought us to the place where we are right now.
(25:22):
We're still a country of individuals, and your kid, your
eighteen year old kid, might very likely be wired in
a profoundly different way than mine. So I'm kind of
stingy with advice in terms of telling groups of people
what to do. But you can't ignore the big trends.
You can't ignore ten million open positions right now. You
(25:43):
can't ignore you want to hear some really horrible math.
The number that scares me more than one point seven
trillion in student loans is five every year for every
five tradesmen who retire to replace them. That's been gone
on for over a decade. And when you start to
just extrapolate that out, what you realize real fast is
(26:07):
this is not just a conversation about companies who are
struggling to recruit talent or kids who are struggling to
find a path to prosperity. This is a conversation about
how long Clay Travis and bucksex and want to wait
for a plumber when they need one, or an electrician.
Every single person listening to this has skin in the game,
(26:27):
because every one of your audience members shares my addiction
to smooth roads and affordable electricity and indoor plumbing and
a long list of other stuff that we've been taking
for granted long before Dirty Jobs went on the air.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
You know, my uncle is a tradesman and a locksmith,
like a skilled locksmith with the specialty stuff for you know, corporations,
and my brother in law is actually a welder. Carrie's
brothers a welder, and one thing I hear from both
of them is they just don't have the time to
do all the jobs that people want them to do,
which is not a thing you often hear from that
many folily. There's so many offers to do different work
(27:04):
in different places that they can't get to it all. So, Mike,
I mean, I'm experiencing that for my own, you know,
extended family, what they're seeing out there, I'm just wondering
to what degree. Also, when you're you know, you're the
CEO of Mike Roworks Foundation, you're encouraging young people to
go into this, but you know, entrepreneurship, small business ownership.
I mean, it's been my experience from people I know,
some of whom have become very successful business owners, that
(27:27):
a lot of them start by working for a business
in the trades.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
And this is this is part of the sort of
the disaster scenario. When we took shop Class out, we
also impacted not just the skilled workforce, but the the
entrepreneurial gene. The path to a small business so often
begins with the mastery of a trade. I mentioned welding before,
(27:56):
because you know. I know people who are underwater weld today.
They make three hundred thousand dollars a year. I know
others who are tig welders, you know, who are making
one hundred grand. And I know some who are making
less than that and are basically punching a clock. But
the most interesting cohort are the welders who hired another welder,
(28:18):
or more likely hired an electrician and some HVAC guys
and then bought a couple of vans and started a
mechanical contracting company. Those guys are everywhere, and they are
the engine of our economy, and their success stories aren't
told nearly enough because they start by doing something that
so many parents have come to believe as a vocational
(28:40):
consolation prize. I don't want my kid to be a welder.
The hell you don't, man, I can give you example
after example, and Buck, just a quick sidebar. I don't
know if you'll remember this, but I saw you ten
years ago. I think you were filling in for Beck
and you did a story on one of them my
favorite stories of all time. Nobody talks about it today,
(29:03):
but it was a message to Garcia. It was a
story about initiative, and it's a story about work ethic,
and it's a story about the willingness to cheerfully take
hold of a thing and lift. That's part of this
conversation too. And my foundation, you know, we award work
ethics scholarships because we're not just looking to fill an
(29:25):
existing hole. We're looking to find people who are willing
to show up early, stay late, take a bite of
the crap sandwich, cheerfully, volunteer for whatever task is at
hand that's still for sale, that still works. And if
gen Z is the cohort that steps up to do
that with the tool belt and a new understanding of
(29:46):
what a good job is, God bless them, Mike.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Last question for you. You mentioned parents are grandparents. How
much encouragement do you see from them? And I know
there's a lot of people out there that are worried
their kids are not working hard enough, maybe they're not
making great grades in school, but they do have that
work ethic and they're trying to find a way. I
think most people have no idea that you can make
six figures doing a lot of these jobs. Do you
(30:09):
think parents and grandparents are making their kids aware enough
of that opportunity as well, or do you think they've
been sold the idea that only success comes from the
pathway of college. You can't do anything else.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Again, I hate to paint with a broad brush, but
the short answer is yeah, by and large, we have
an idea in our head about what a good job
looks like. And look, most parents also want something better
for their kids than whatever they had. The problem is
what is better? Right? I mean, we get to decide
(30:43):
how much debt is good. We get to decide if work,
for instance, is the proximate cause of our unhappiness. There's
a very popular narrative in this country right now that
says that it is. That's why you'll see support for
Bernie Sanders thirty two hour work week crazy. But if
you believe in your heart that the reason you're unhappy
(31:06):
is because you're working too much, or if you believe,
like genuinely believe in your heart that you're going to
be happy when you retire, then you've bought into an
existing narrative that is in fact persuasive. And it's persuasive
because it's mirrored constantly in sitcoms and movies and advertisements.
We are surrounded by this idea that work is the enemy,
(31:30):
and that you're a failure if you're a parent, if
you don't get your kid into a proper school. So yeah,
I would say to parents who believe that you might
be right. Maybe your kid is exactly wired to do
all of those things, but you might be wrong. Put
all the options on the table, have an honest conversation
(31:50):
about the realities of debt and the advantage of learning
a skill that's in demand. My final thought is, you
know this. I'm holding myself in my hand right now,
and I'm looking at it because that is a liberal
arts education, and it's free. All the information I learned
when I was in school in nineteen eighty four is
(32:11):
right there. Man. If you're curious and you really want
to learn whatever whatever floats your boat, you can watch
a lecture on it right now for free at MIT
or Brown or Yale.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's all there.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
Learn a skill first, master a trade, go to work,
get rich.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Mike, what's the website? One more time for anyone listening case.
I think some people listening are really interested in following
up and learning more.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Mike ro Dire, Okay, I believe is the website micro
dot org? He was fantastic. You gave him the last
line there, but man, I know people love that. We'll
take some of your reactions as we close up. Shop Buck,
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Speaker 1 (33:41):
Sometimes all you can do is laugh, and they do
a lot of it with the Sunday Hang join Clay
and Buck as they laugh it up in the Klay
and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Welcome back in Clay and Buck your closing up shop today.
And I just want to say we had such a
really good conversation there with Microw of micro Works, and
you know, when you start saying things, I think I'm
glad he throws the numbers in there. We're talking about
trade school. I know we have a lot of trade
school listener, or rather people who went to trade school
who are listeners when you're trying to make the two
(34:17):
or three hundred grand and being in a field where
you're not just making that money, but you can make
that money in a lot of different places all over
the country, and you can find a job doing that
pretty much wherever you want. You know, I mean skilled electricians,
skilled welder, HVAC systems.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Things like that.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
That's compelling, you know, or you know, there's there's some
other jobs I could tell you you don't want to
do where you need a four year college degree or
a lot of those out there.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Well, not only that, I love the one.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
The salaries matter because I think it gets a lot
of sixteen seventeen, eighteen year old in particular, like their
their ears kind of perk up because they're starting to
recognize what things cost. I think a lot of people
in their early twenties as well. But I love the
idea of you learn the business yourself while working for someone,
and then you're able to build your own business. And
(35:05):
and they're these jobs. You know this, they're great. You
get out of an office. One of the worst things
about a lot of jobs, you're sitting at a desk.
You don't have the ability to have a normal wife.
Getting out and about during the day is is pretty healthy.
I think getting people.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
My dad has a longtime friend who is older.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
You know, he's got a French guy and probably his
late seventies now, who started out in the restaurant industry
as a busboy in a French restaurant in Paris, came
to New York, came to New York City, had nothing.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And he still tells stories.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
He's like, I was working sixteen hour a day, I
was making pennies. I was struggling's a hot, sweaty kitchen.
And now he's got like five restaurants that are franchised
that he owns a piece of he's making seven figures.
You know, It's like sometimes working anything is the best
way to learn how to do it at a bigger
level down the line, whatever that industry, whatever that field
(35:57):
may be. So we have some great v emails. We'll
get to these tomorrow. Team, let's hold some of these
over because I meant to get to it now. We
went a little along with Mike. I think you all
understand and appreciate why we went along with Mike. That
was an important conversation. He's such a compelling storyteller, makes me,
makes me want to get out there and you know,
learn learn how to do some cool stuff, learn how
to do blowing glass or welding or something.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
What was amazing is that that story in the Wall
Street Journal that he referenced.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
There are a lot of.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
People coming to the conclusion that what he's been selling
makes a great deal of sense. And I think a
lot of you out there listening have kids, grandkids, maybe
you yourself. You're thinking to yourself, i'd make six figures
doing a job like that.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
What am I doing with my life? Maybe explore it
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