December 29, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, Ryan welcomes Claire Potter and Tom Rogan to break down the past year in politics—calling out the biggest winners and losers, the defining moments that shaped the national conversation, and the leaders who captured (or lost) public attention. They dig into the power of political charisma, which tactics actually worked, and which media stories were blown out of proportion. The trio also spotlights topics that went under the radar but will matter in the long run. The episode wraps with forward-looking predictions on the future of politics, including the rising push for AI regulation, new social media legislation, and how these changes could reshape campaigns, public opinion, and elections in 2026 and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to a Numbers Game with Brian Grodowski. Thank
you guys for being here. It is the end of
the year. It kind of snuck up on me way
faster than I thought it was. I thought I had
it like one more episode, so I will do a
special episode and then beginning of next year, I promise
you guys want Tory to bring a political consultant like
myself on to answer any questions about running for office
that will have to go back to the following week
(00:23):
into next year. I will get that episode done though.
For you guys, I look forward to it. If you
have questions about question about running for office or what
that's like, or about the inside track of working in politics,
email me Ryan at Numbers Game podcast dot com and
Ryan at numbers Plour Numbers Game podcast dot com and
I'll get to that. Put in the headline campaign episode.
I love to answer that when we get to it.
(00:45):
So for this episode, I thought we'd have a little fun.
I was a guest on a show called The McLaughlin
Group twelve times now for the kids in the audience
who don't know, Sundays used to have Big Talk day
on political news. Right there'd be the whole morning would
basically be political talk shows. Have you Political TALKSHS? And
it used to be matter a lot what they were
saying on Sunday News Sunday talk shows about politics, and
(01:06):
one of those was in the McLaughlin Group. It had
been around for decades by the time that I had joined.
John McLaughlin was a you know, kind of icon in
the media circle up at that point that time. And
there was four different chairs and one was Pat Buchanans,
one was Eleanor Cliffs, one was Clarence Page, and the
fourth was you know, moving around different people. And I
was one of the people and I was there twelve
(01:27):
times and it was actually so great because in most
network studios like CNN or Fox or MSNBC, you know,
there's one hundred different makeup artists and they're all you know,
they get you in the chair, they get you out
of the chair, and they get you, you know, moving
as quickly as possible. At McLaughlin Group, it was a
little bit more on the on the smaller budget, so
they only one makeup artist, which was actually great because
(01:48):
it was one makeup artist for five people, and you
had to show up two hours early because you have
to sit there and get makeup, but allowed for a
lot of downtime to talk to Clarence, Eleanor and Pat,
and like Pat was like an icon to me, So
I got to sit there and kind of chew his
ear off for an hour plus twelve different times. And
Eleanor was also fascinating because, like she was not the
(02:10):
friendliest person in the world, but every once in a
while she would say something in my ears would just
kind of perk up. So one day, Eleanor casually mentions
to me that her son had made a documentary about her,
her brother in law, and I said, Oh, who was
your brother in law? She goes, oh, Montgomery Cliff. I
was like the actor. Like that's like I was raised
by my grandparents, I know, old Hollywood, So I was like,
that's pretty wild. Did you ever meet like Elizabeth Taylor?
(02:32):
She's like no, but I had dinner with marily Monroe
one time, and like that was like fascinating. And they
were just, you know, people of a particular age who
have lived so much and have such interesting stories. It
was like heaven for me because I would just ask
them questions about their life, you know. For the last
couple decades and Pat's life was like no one else's,
so I loved it. The McLauchlan Group had a year
(02:53):
end episode where they would give like the best of,
like the best, like politician, the worst one, all these
questions and I always desire to be on that episode,
and I never was. So this episode's kind of special
because I have on with me two of my friends.
My friend Claire Potter, who is a historian and professor.
She's a wonderful friend of mine. She's politically progressive, she's
very very smart. I'm having her on kind of fill
(03:15):
up the Eleanor Cliff role. And Tom Rogan, who was
the replacement for John McLaughlin and kept that show going
for a couple more years. Tom is my other guest
in the show. He was with me every time I
was on McLoughlin Group, obviously, and he was He's wonderful
and he's super smart. So this will be a very
fun episode looking back, a retrospective of twenty twenty five.
Who was the best, who was the worst? What do
(03:36):
we learn from it all? That's coming up next. So
for today's episode, I have two wonderful guests, my good
friend Claire Potter, who's a historian, former professor and a writer.
And my friend Tom Rogan, who was the host of The
McLaughlin Group when I was on it. He is a
writer at The Washington Examiner. Tom, oh, I'm so excited
(03:56):
to do this because I always wanted to do this
episode when you were the host, and it just never happened.
But it was always fun being on that show. So
first category that I want to ask is who was
the biggest winner of the year? Tom, Who would you
say you're a biggest winner was?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So I'm going to go with the President of Syria,
Ahmed al Shara because of his ability to really, in
the space of less than twelve months, translate himself from
a Jori hartist into someone fetted over by President Trump,
by the Europeans, by a lot of different world leaders.
And as much as Syria has some really significant sectarian
(04:30):
issues issues still with ISIS attacks as we just saw,
has moved that country into a direction that I think
a lot of people thought would be impossible for him.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So he's my big winner of the year. Wow, Okay, Claire,
who's your a big winner of the year?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So Ryan, I'm going to go with Lachlan Murdock after
a multi year Succession drama that actually created a television
series called Succession. Lachlan Murdoch did what he should have
done at the very beginning, what his father told him
to do, which was buy out all of his siblings
and take control of the Fox broadcast a network.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
It was a really good move.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
It means it won't be sold for parts by some
kind of interloper. And much as I kind of a
bore a lot of stuff that comes out on Fox,
it does actually create a conservative center for media against
which everyone else can test themselves.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, and actually is basically almost almost everyone in conservative
media came out of big conservative media, big personality, it
came out of Fox. My biggest winner actually this year
was Gavin Newsom. You know, he left ended twenty twenty
four being kind of embarrassed. He was holding the bag
for Joe Biden until the absolute very end. Kamala Harris
was a longtime political rival who kind of looked like
(05:39):
she had finally edged him out after almost a decade
of the two of them kind of going at it,
and at the end of it he at the beginning
of the year he was trying to figure himself out
he was a podcast host. He was having on Charlie
Kirk and tell him how much his kids liked him.
And then at the end of the year he kind
of found his identity as the biggest national fighter against Trump.
He has a lot of unifying support among the Democrats
(05:59):
in the largest date the country, certainly keeping an eye
on for twenty twenty eight. So for me, he is
the biggest winner of the year. Biggest loser town.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Ali Harmani, the leader of Iran, aging has been rumored
to be dying for coming on a decade now, hanging
on in there, but I think he is sort of
losing steam. The loss I think of exactly exactly the
loss of deterrent's power that Iran has suffered in the
last year under him because of the US and Israeli strikes. Really,
(06:30):
I think taking a hammerbload to the strategic credibility of Iran,
to the significant benefit obviously of the years is Rali's
but also the Sinney Arab monarchy's led by Saudi Arabia,
So a big loss there. Iran I think has never
looked weaker under his premiership. How about you, Claire, is
your biggest loser?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Well, I'm going to say Mike Johnson, the Speaker of
the House.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I think Johnson came into the job as sort of
the person nobody wanted but everybody thought could hold the
coalition together. The only way he's been able to do
that is by basically having the House out of session
over and over and over again and preventing his members
from bringing legislation to the floor. And there's some things
I want to talk about a little later in the broadcast,
(07:13):
but I think Johnson has really shown that he didn't
have the political chops for this job, and that he's
not ambitious for it, and he's not ambitious for himself
in the conventional ways that the speaker's job requires.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Biggest loser for me is Elis Staphonic. She went from
being a possible leader of the Republicans of the House,
a potential presidential candidate, a massive juggernaut fundraiser, a candidate
for governor, and now she's going to be retired before
forty five from politics. A series of bad mistakes from
Elise Daphonic, but a huge rising star for over a decade,
and it is over with a whimper, not a bang tom.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Best politician of the year, Malki Rubio from being someone
who MAGA didn't trust or it was an outsider, clearly
part of the the President's most in a circle, now trusted, liked,
it seems by the MAGA movement, still liked by you know,
the non MAGA Republicans. Has played a very careful game
(08:12):
there by choosing when to come out and make sort
of pointed statements, but ultimately by I think consolidating the
notion that he is a loyalist to the president.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
How about you, Claire best politician?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Well, how can I help the Sazor and Mom Donnie.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
He came from nowhere, four year veteran and I use
the word veteran loosely in the New York State legislature.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
He organized young people.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I think he really took a lot of leaves out
of the MAGA playbook by saying, you know, if you
can get young people and you can hold them together
and put them to work for you, you can win. And
he beat Andrew Cuomo, who is one of the most
horrible people on the planet.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Nobody liked him.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Lots of Democrats voted for him because they were afraid
of Mom Donnie and Mom donnie slight skated through. It'll
be interesting to see how he governs. But definitely he's
the best politician of the year.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, my best politician. We did not coordinate this by that.
My best politician was also Zora Mandani. Don't love his politics,
but it is undeniable that it's upstar assemblymen with really
no real legislative accomplishments to his name, becomes the mayor
of the largest city in the country, started a national
conversation on affordability, and he not only defeated Andrew Cuoma,
(09:26):
which is important, but a lot of other elected officials
in New York, including the speaker of the New York
State Senate sorry, New York City City Council, rather very
very very prominent politicians. He defeated them all and kind
of blowouts that no one saw coming. So I think
Zora Mandani was the best politician. Who was the worst politician?
Tom for me, Kiss.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Starmer, the leader of the UK Prime Minister leader of
the Labor Party, has a very significant majority in the
UK Parliament, but because of a few significant backtrack decisions
that I think showed, you know, weakness over leadership, he
is now pret resigning over really catastrophic opinion polls. Nigel
far surging likely to be the next prime minister a
(10:06):
mittally not until twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
UK economy suffering.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So came in with a lot of potential power, but
because of some poor decisions is really jeopardized that and
now the talk in the UK is a leadership challenge.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Sometime in twenty twenty six Claire worst politician?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Well, okay, Ryan, I was going to say Curtis Sliwell,
but I've decided I like the man too much. And
the really I realized in I thought he was the
worst politician is because he's such a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Fair.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I'm going to choose as a Democrat Jack Schlosberg, who
I find humiliating. I don't know what he thinks he's doing.
I don't know why he's running for Congress. He has
no experience doing anything, and he also seems to be nuts.
And he's another one of those Kennedy people that shows
up and says, vote for me.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
And the question, of course is why why would we
vote for you? Why?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Because I am Jack Kennedy's grandson. No, I don't think
so he's a terrible politician. You should get out of
the race.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Well, My worst politician was Prime Minister Keir Starmer of
the UK. After having his huge majority from the Labor Party,
he has an approval rating that is around the same
as Prince Andrew in just eighteen months, right, I'm not joking.
I actually looked that up. Him and Prince Andrew have
closed the same approval rating, worst of any politicians in
nineteen seventy seven in the UK, and some of his
(11:25):
polls have the Labor Party coming in fourth place in
the next election, which I don't think he's going to
last to the next election unless he just calls one,
because I think that he's in serious trouble. Most defining
political moment of the year.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Tom, I think the Trump tariff announcements with that big
board out on the Rose Garden, the shock that that
caused around the world, the continuing impact that has had
in the United States, for good or ill. It was
a profound moment, just I think, you know, really in
that sense of shock and sweeping the rug out from
(12:01):
under the kind of you know, post Cold war free
trade consensus.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
How about you, Claire. Most of finding I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Say, the refusal of the Indiana legislature to run a
redistricting referendum in early December. I think it was a
real turning point for Trump. You know, every second term
president has to stave off that moment in which he
becomes a lame duck. And I think the amount of
energy that both Trump and jd. Vance put into Indiana
into trying to pressure them to do that, and the
(12:34):
fact that the Republicans said no. I mean, like more
Republicans voted against it than voted for it.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
They didn't even need the Democrats to vote.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And so I think that's a signal to everybody that
says I think Trump's losing control of the party. I
think he's losing his hold on the party, and I
think Indiana was a pivot point.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
My most of finding political moment was Liberation Day. Trump
announced with the terriffs, the yo yos of teriffing not
tariffing people better or worse. It has become the larger
political conversation around the economy, around trade. It has kind
of changed the neoliberal census since the nineteen eighties certainly,
and the media has had a field day with it.
It's become the defining economic conversation around everything, whether it
(13:20):
has nothing to do with terrorifts or not kind of
found their way in the conversation, and it also became
a huge albatross for pulling around Donald Trump's neck. There's
really no going around it. Most charismatic, tom.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I say this as someone who is I think the
only American journalists actually listed under a terrorist to restaurant
as well as sanctions.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So bear that in mind. But Vladimir Putin is my
answer to this. Wow, you look.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
At the conduct of the war in Ukraine, acts have
honor syndrome, which I've done some investment of journalists and
still doing which were I think we will find is
the Russian intelligence services doing some very bad things against
the United States, obviously against Ukrainian civilians. And yet whether
it be President Macron at the moment or President Trump,
still an ability to woo with those KGB red Banner
(14:08):
Institute skills a lot of different people and maintain relevance.
Lorndra Modi, she's saying, you know, Putin is certainly not
down and now and to think, you know, just a
couple of years ago that there was that who attempts
and people were saying Putin is done or he's dying
of an illness. I don't think so Putin is there,
and we have to say whether it is from his
(14:28):
intelligence training or something else. Part of that is the
charisma he's able to apply.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, Claire, most charismatic.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So I'm going to go with Graham Platner, who is
challenging Susan Collins in Maine. Susan Collins has been impossible
to dislodge Maner's love her. Graham Plattner is an oysterman.
The party came to him and said we'd like you
to run. He's part of a new breed of Democratic
candidates which is get white working class people. And let's
(14:55):
just say Graham does in fact own his own oyster business.
Janet Mills came into the race, the very popular governor
went after him.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Immediately.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
This whole thing about the tattoos that he got in
Croatia came out. I thought he handled it splendidly. He
came out, he owned it. He said, you know, when
you are a soldier, you actually sometimes do some really
screwed up things and it's over. So I think he's
got a lot of savvy I think people like him.
You should see his meetings are full of enthusiastic people,
(15:24):
and he's running from the center right.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I think he's going to be the youngest person in
me and I think he's under seventy five and the
whole wait exactly. My most charismatic is Italian Prime Minister
Georgia Maloney. She has managed to become the most powerful
leader in Europe in a country and the most stable
leader in Western Europe, which in Italy, I mean that
(15:47):
was a joke within itself. Italy has never had a
stable government. She's been in for about three years and
she's already the fifteenth longest serving prime minister ever. If
she's survived to the next election, she'll make the top
ten in Italian history. She's become a lion in the
EU and the entire West. Best comeback, Tom, I'm going
(16:08):
to play off what you said earlier, Ryan and Gavin Newsom.
I think the ability to translate this sort of make
sure what he's doing into a really successful social media
profile clearly generating buzz in the Democratic Party. You know,
the guy has reshaped his political narrative and looks, you know,
potentially strong going into twenty twenty eight. How about you
(16:30):
best comeback Layer.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I'm going with Mikey Cheryl. How can I not go
with Mikey Cheryl. You know, she was at a neck
and neck with a two time candidate who looked to
have a lot of juice behind him. We had rising
Republican registrations in New Jersey, as you've been documenting. Ryan
and Mikey Cheryl just nailed it thirteen points, and you know,
God voters back from Trump and made the Democratic Party
(16:53):
sit up and say, wait a second, maybe our old
ways of looking at things aren't going to work anymore.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yay, Mikey Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Her polster was an assana with one of my friends
and he told her she's running for president twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Just no, women, please, please just know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
My first comeback is not a politician. It is Lye
Liam and Noel Gallagher of the band Oasis. After fifteen
years of absolutely hating each other, the brothers came back
for a massive tour around the world. I mean, how
could you not root for that comeback? Most original thinker, Tom.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I think it has to be Donald Trump again.
You know, whatever you think of his policies, the consistent
ability to invent in one day, you know, we don't know.
Write a great example of this in the from Policy says,
what is she going to do tomorrow when Ukraine? Is
he going to blame Zeletski's he going to get blame putin?
You know what what mighty do? And you know, whether
that's the Chinese thinking about Taiwan or Kim jong'an or
(17:47):
obviously domestically, you know, his ability to invent in any
one moment, and you know, as much as it might
seem to be now depleting his ability to corral the
MAGA base around him, I think is fascinating in the
test Matte's original thinker, most original thinker Claire Well.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I'm going to go with two people who work together,
Thomas Massey of Kentucky and Rocanna of California, for reviving
the use of the discharge petition in the Epstein case.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Out of five.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Hundred and sixty three discharge petitions that have been filed
since nineteen thirty one, only twenty six of them have
gotten a floor vote, and only two of them have
become law as and one of them is this Epstein
discharge petition. And they really managed to point it out
that what is standing in the way of bipartisanship in
Congress is the leadership. And they did it in a
(18:36):
way that did not attack their own leadership. They just
didn't end around it. But I think we're going to
see more discharge petitions in the next year. I think
there are a lot of Republicans who want to start
writing legislation, and I think there are a lot of
Democrats who might work with them on that rather than
seeing all the lawmaking coming out of the White House.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
My original thinker is big balls on the other nineteen
and twenty year olds who are a doje and they
just listen sometimes of thinking constantly in the federal government
as you can't do things, and they prove sometimes you
just can. They decrease the federal workforce by ten percent
in under one year, which is pretty unbelievable. Concerning since Reagan,
(19:15):
you've heard that it doesn't happen. Most stagnant thinker tom.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Bernie Sanders, in the sense that the political theater that
was attached to Bernie Sanders that Bernie bros. Obviously is
clearly giving way now to AOC to ma'm darni, there
is a new political narrative that I think Bernie Sanders
has been unable to become part of. Beyond the census,
the sort of godfather for that sort of democratic socialist movement.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
But again, I think clearly a changing with the god there,
and it's something that perhaps he might not be enjoyed.
That's an interesting take.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
How about you, Claire, Chuck Schumer, Chuck Schumer, Chuck Schumer.
He's done, he's cooked. Stick a fork in him, you know.
I think the again, the old democratic thinking that you
you need people who know the system to just sit
there putting their fingers in the dike so that the
flood doesn't come through.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I think that's over. And I think he can't think
his way out of a paper bag. I think Maga.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Moves too fast for him, which is of course what
Donald Trump counts on, and he doesn't.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
He doesn't know how to get away from it.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Most stagnant thinker for me is Tim Woltz, the governor
of Minnesota, who has blamed the crisis of Somali refugees
abusing taxpayer dollars on white supremacy. He's using white supremacy
like a lot of people have for decades. He actually
handed an award Alt Cahol Refugee of the Year Award
to one of these people who had scammed the system,
and he is just kind of floundering third in his
(20:40):
attempt for our third term. Who knows if he can win,
because if it's a good year, but he's not going.
I don't see a Tim Wolls for President sign coming
up on anyone's house over anytime soon. Capitalists the Year,
Tom Navidia's and videos, Johnson Wing, you know whether you
think of that in a good way. And I think
there are certainly questions to be asked that his desire
(21:01):
for profit is overwhelming his patriotic duty in terms of
pushing to sell the most high end or some of
the most high end chips to China. Clearly has has
been able to get President Trump on side and steamroll
the video train forwards. So I would say that, yeah,
I should do a clarification. I do have some stocks
in video, but I think it's a profound mistake that
(21:22):
he is. If you should have invested a couple of
years ago, I mean, if we all could have, we
would have been oh you did, I did.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
But he should not be selling those chips to China
because American sailors, if we go to war with China,
will die because of that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
So yeah, this film Nvidia, I do not make that
as a monk. Yeah, absolutely, Claire Capitalist of the Year.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
All right, I'm going with Barry Weiss.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
We're talking about somebody who set herself up as a
contrarian when she was in college. She goes to The
New York Times as the sort of conservative affirmative action higher.
She leaves the New York Times with everybody hating her,
she starts a sub stack. She is now sitting on
one hundred and fifty million dollars payout and is in
charge of the CBS newsroom. Granted, she's having some problems,
(22:09):
but I have never seen a young person move up
the ladder so fast, make money so fast, and position
herself as a leader in the industry.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And wants to host every television episode on CBS. Apparently.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yes, And we'll give you Stephen Miller's telephone number if
you want it.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
My Capitalist of the Year is Todd Graves, the founder
of Raising Canes. They surpassed KFC as the third largest
chicken fried chicken food chain in the country, and he's
going to be one of the top one hundred richest
Americans next year likely. So I mean I from Louisiana,
born and bred American. I'm pretty it's pretty astounding where
you can go. Anole mentioned Tom.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I think the continuing cursion of drones across Europe.
We saw it obviously in New Jersey in December last year,
but now it seems to be a lot in Europe,
and some of these, you know, seem to be very strange,
hard to bring down even with the most advanced technology.
Sort of plays into this UFO subject a little bit,
which I've always been quite interested in. You know, there's
a lot of brain, there's a lot of a lot
(23:10):
of a lot of craziness in that subject. But look,
whether it's drones or something else, clearly we have a
inability to defend their space. And as the Ukraine War
has shown, this technological technological evolution is going to create
some seismic effects I think across the political military dimension.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Claire arnoill mention, my honorable mention goes to measles. We've
had these measles outbreaks. We've got more people with diagnosed
with measles this year than we have in any previous year.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Measles has become the fulcrum around.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Which the MAHA movement is turning, and the reason I
would like to see it covered more. Is I think
the majority of people who are very, very anxious about
the effects of vaccines and reluctant to give the children
vaccines are really unaware of the kind of damage it does.
And people talk about measles killing you, but in fact
it also makes you deafit it makes you blind, erects
(24:05):
your heart. I mean, they're just a range of things
that can happen to children who get measles, and I
would like to see more coverage of the disease itself
and treat anti vaxxers as though they were thinking breathing
human beings who really want the best for their children.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
That's great. Under my honorable mention is the utter collapse
of the birth rate in South America and Latin America
as a whole. No nation in the whole of Latin
America has a birth rate at fertility level. A bunch
of countries are already seeing population shrinkage. Puerto Rico is
the fastest declining place in the entire Western hemisphere, Cubis
following and other countries will follow there soon after. There's
(24:41):
also a big push in most parts of Europe to
bring the descendants of European immigrants back from Argentina and
Brazil to Europe to deal with their at youth crisis.
So Honoble mentioned my here best political theater the reaction
to the death of Charlie Cook.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
As much as that was motivation on some clearly to
try and present themselves into the public domain and use
it to their own advantage, there was a pretty bipartisan
sense of revulsion, you know, again, whether the motive was
perhaps not as morally pure with some as with others.
I think it was a positive moment for the country
that everyone could I mean, it should have been right,
(25:19):
and it shows how bad I think things have become
that we I would even say this, but but it
was a moment of unity, and I think that's that's positive.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Best local theater, Claire, I'm going to go with something
a lot lighter, the unraveling of George Santos.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
You know, it was.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
It was very helpful for we Democrats who were just
like devastated after the last election, and all of a sudden,
all this Santos stuff starts coming out and it's just bonkers.
It is like the most bonkers reality show, and more
and more weird stuff kept coming out about the dogs.
He had that whole thing about nine to eleven, and
I was like, wait a second, didn't that happen to
Ryan's mother?
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Did it happen to your mother too?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And you know, it was so much fun and it
was so much fun to watch it play out. And
I'm not even sorry that Trump pardoned him and got
him out of jail. I'm sorry that the people to
whom he owes hundreds of thousands of dollars aren't going
to get their money.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
But on a certain level, it was totally worth it
the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
George told people that we were childhood friends, and I
met him when I was like thirty four years old,
Like told many people me and him grew up.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
He's a sociopath, but he's some kind sociopag.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yes, that's one hundred percent true. People stopped talking to
me afterwards, like, how could you not tell me you
grew up with him? I said, that's another lie. Best
political theater for me was Zoramandani's debate for the New
York City Debate, when they asked him what country would
you visit first, as if the mayor of des Moines
has asked what country they're going to visit first, and
he said, I want to stay in New York City.
Was a great political theater moment. Everyone else was saying
(26:45):
different countries. It was very very smart at when viral
and mayoral debates very rarely ever go viral. Tom Worres's
political theater.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
The Trump Sinetski meeting in February, I thought, you know it,
pay Selatski made a huge strategic hora and turning up
in a say and not playing to Trump's ego, and
a good leader has to do what a good leader
has to do in the moment. But I thought it
was very unseemly and unsightly for a country, a democratic
country that's under attack to be hected in that way,
and I think played to a lot of discomfort among
(27:17):
American allies and supporter of the best American values around
the world.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Worst political theater, Claire.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Well everything that Christy nom does, and I would say
the high point was appearing in front of SEACUT wearing
a fake military uniform as a dollar gold rolex.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
I mean, the.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Woman has absolutely no sense of what it means to
be added public and her.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Wig probably costs more than that. Oh my god, my
worst political in the theater theater was Trump meeting with
Mandani and at the end of it, Trump's talking over
the media, not letting Mandani answer. And when he says
there and says, you know, is is he a socialist
or in Islamist or whatever the question was, and he
said no, which ended at least a find his campaign.
(28:01):
And then when n evens asks a question but trumping
a fascists, he said, don't answer that. You can call
me that horrible political theater on Behalving. For other Republicans,
it was definitely a head scratcher where I couldn't understand
where it was going. Most underreported story, Tom, you think
the Chinese encirclement of Taiwan and increasing pressure against the
Philippines in the South China see in the Philippines Exclusive
(28:24):
Economic Zone ramming ships are doing a lot of things
and that matters.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And why is it underreported Because the US is a
treaty defense ally of the Philippines. We are obliged under
treaty law to come to their aid and the Chinese
are very aggressively pushing the line. Their one miscalculation, one
choice could spark a conflict that frankly a lot of
people would not have seen coming.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Well, I didn't see that. I didn't actually know that
at all, Claire. Most unreported story.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
I was going to say, I have to stick close to Tom.
He clearly knows a lot of things that I don't,
and I feel like such a lightweight next to him.
But the most underreported story for me is what happened
to the QAnon networks dropped out of the news completely
q and On when it formed us. Q Andon had
come from a bunch of other conspiracist tendencies in United
(29:09):
States history that had been around for decades, some of
them over a century. And now all of a sudden,
nobody's interested in QAnon anymore.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
And I actually want.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
To know what they're thinking, what they're doing, how they're
handling the dithering about the Epstein files. And I think
that's reporting somebody needs to be doing.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Wow. Most under reports for me is the ongoing fight
in the Republican Party over AI. Republican governors in deep
red states like Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Tennessee, and Texts are
pushing for more AI regulations. Every poll shows a majority
of voters are want more AI regulation, and President Trump's
second most amount of executive orders after tariffs are on
deregulating AI. He is the AI acceleration. As president, he
(29:51):
wants as much AI possible business as possible, and it
is causing a real conversation over the issues of federalism
and the future of technology in our country. Most over
reported storytime slightly weird one here, I think, but the
continuing obsession on Jamal Kashogi anytime we talk about US
Saudi relations it's a media fixation for obvious reasons. He
(30:13):
was brutally murdered by Bence OLMBN Salmon's orders. But look,
international politics is the sum of more than one man.
That there is a lot more to the US Saudi
relationship than that, for good or real. And I think
it's a good example of media of a challenge in
the media that an obviously emotional point is being translated
into too much coverage. Is it relevant? Yes? Is it
(30:34):
the biggest issue? Not by a long shot. Most over
reported story for you, Claire.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Well, once again, I come in as the Phil donaghue
to Tom's.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
William at Buckley. But I'm going to go with Olivia
Nutsi and Ryan Lizza.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
The most absurd breakup of the year, journalists all over
the place wetting their pants over Olivia having sex of
some car with RFK Junior, who did not win the presidency,
and Ryan Lizza insisting that there would be no RFK
Junior if Olivia had just played it straight and exposed
(31:10):
him and so on, when actually he's.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Just mad that she left him. Ridiculous, stupid story.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
And children, if you ever break up with anybody, do
not put it on your substack.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Never, never, never.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's so crazy. My most over poor story is the
ice raids, the ice rates and how they've been characterized
as this lawless kidnapping of individuals is a lot of
it's overblown, a lot of it is anxiety inducing for
no reason. And and it has been though highly effective
for President Trump to promote self deportations. He will have
(31:42):
the largest decrease of illegal population since Dwight Eisenhower boldest
political tactic.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Nice to be the Trump tariffs again, you know, the
sense of just sweeping that carpet out from under people,
the rug, and you know sticking with it.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I mean, look, you know there have been and deals.
That was expectation the truck that the President would significantly backtrack.
He hasn't done, so he's tinkering around the edges. I mean,
you know, again, a pretty seismic political decision that has
defined the first year of his presipency. How about you
clear boldest political tactic.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I'm going to say Democrats deciding to contest every single
congressional district in Texas. They've never done this, and it
is not only showing a fighting spirit, but it is
the kind of thing Howard Dean was talking about when
he was chair of the Democratic Party back in two
thousand and six, which is, if you don't fight everywhere,
you are in fact going to lose. And I hope
(32:36):
what this is showing is that Democrats are starting to
abandon this business of like, you know, trying to game
out winning the House by three seats or four seats
or five seats, go big or go home?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Guys. Right, Well that's and you also see which trends
how districts are moving when why don't you contest everywhere?
My best, my boldest political tactic was when President Trump's
decision to bomby Ron but not entering prolonged war working
in a broker piece in Israel and Palestine, his entire
Middle East policy President Trump has been very bold, very active,
and probably one of the most effective presence of Middle
(33:11):
East strategy in history. Worst pocal tactic, Tom the Coommanuel
mccron is still the ramifications of his decision to call
that election. Last year.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
We see the utter dysfunction of France in terms of
the government's inability to manage the parliament to pass laws,
and France has a big problem. The trajectory of the
aging population is very generous entitlements. I don't know how
they get out of it. And mcarn is, you know,
reaping the whirlwind if that decision last year worst for about.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I'm going to say Mike Johnson keeping the House out
of session for the entirety of the shutdown that was
almost eight weeks that he sent his members home. He's
losing control of his caucus in my point of view.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
And I also.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Think it is a bit of a template for how
MAGA might actually just fall apart, because those people did
not get elected to just sit in their offices until
Mike Johnson calls them and tells them to come and
vote yes. And so I think there is significant distress
in the Republican Party among certainly representatives, but I think
(34:15):
it's spreading to the Senate that they are simply not
allowed to solve problems that they see in front of them,
and that their constituents are complaining about.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
My worst local tactic was in Europe. It was by
Gets Wilders, the head of the Freedom Party, of the
National Polics Party. This man has spent twenty years trying
to get political power. He finally got it and he
dissolved the coalition in one year. What happened was was
that the other nationalist parties all gained more seats from him,
splintering the vote, and he's out of power again. Twenty
(34:44):
years of literally nothing for one year. People do not
like it when you're politically unstable. And gears Fielders watched
everything that I couldn't believe that he was spending decades
to build. It was over. Sorry to see you go, Tom.
I think I'm maybe sealing for people.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But Rob Reiner, obviously, the specifically the way he responded
to Charlie Kirk's death a lot of conciliation, and you know,
I thought as attendant as a lot of people did,
including in Maga. Interestingly, the President's reaction to Robryna's death
I thought was pathetic.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
How about you, Claire, Sorry to see you go.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Well, I'm going to say my friend Susan Brown Miller,
who I'm writing a book about a biography of her.
She was a radical feminist in the nineteen seventies and
I has wrote a landmark book about rape against our
will men women in rape, which really transformed the landscape
when it came to attending to sexual violence. Susan died
in May at the end of a very long and
(35:38):
useful life, and I think we and I are going
to miss her a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, mine is Charlie Kirk. I mean, I know that
it's kind of redundant because it was obviously the most
high profile pol political one. But I knew Charlie a
little bit. I got to know him since he was
eighteen years old, a little by little, and he always
got better over time and very fore people who in
politics do, and he was a pleasure so and it
was nicer to me than I was to him, and
I did not always deserve Person of the Year.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Tom likes Friedrich Martz, the German chancellor, replacing the most
overrated Western leader in terms of Angela Merkel and then
obviously Olive Schultz. A kind of you know, wet rag
leader in Germany, bolstering Germany stunts in Europe's defense, increasing
defense spending, doing all the things that President Trump has
(36:23):
been insisting Europe should do for years. Still seems slightly
on the outside of the administration. But if you were
judging him by what Trump wanted, you would think he
would be getting a state visit.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So Frederick Mrs Personally Year Claire, I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Say Susie Wiles, first female chief of staff in the
White House. She took a Trump campaign that was, as usual,
totally incoherent, made.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
It run, helped him win.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
She got to shive run to Santas on the way
to Washington, which is always fun to watch. And I
think Susie Wiles has probably created more coherence in the
West Wing than we will see without her, and I
would predict that she's going to be gone before the midterms.
I think that Vanity Fair story was her way of
(37:06):
paving her way out of the White House. But she's
definitely Person of the Year for me. I admire her
a great deal despite our many differences, and she is
a really boss chick.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Well, my Person the Year is Marco Rubio a man
with seven hundred jobs who managed to sit there and
become probably the most not only popular member of the cabinet,
but also believed to be the most competent member of
the cabinet and has done a lot and may end
up remaking foreign policy decisions, helping me make form politicisions
throughout Latin America and the Middle East and Europe. So
(37:39):
not many people could say the same. Macro prediction Tom
last question, Yeah, no end to.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The war in Ukraine. Anything the Ukrainians will agree to
with President Trump, which I think was sort of nearly there.
The Russians will not agree to that decides it too
far apart in terms of what they will accept, So
I think that will continues. How Trump with that obviously
uns Claire Macro prediction.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
I'm going to say that.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
The number of states that agegate or require parental consent
for social media will at least double in twenty twenty six.
They're ten or twelve.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Now.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I think we'll probably get to twenty four or twenty five,
and we're going to see a move for federal legislation
on age gating. I think Australia's move has been really
big Australia has shown that it can be done and
that there is the technology.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
To make it happen. And I think it's one of
the few issues that you see.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Real bipartisanship on and that that bipartisanship will start in
the state houses, but that it will trickle upward into Congress.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
My macro prediction is with the rise of AI and
the increasing need for our grid to produce more energy
and to hold more energy, there is going to be
a big push for nuclear energy in the next year
coming from the White House. It is going to be
one of the few ways that we could sit there
and meet the demand which is going to grow exponentially
over the next three years. Thank you guys so much
for doing that. Was so much fun. This was definitely
(39:01):
a dream of mind us sit there and be able
to do part of those kinds of conversations. And for
the record, Tom I was Pappychanan's favorite guest, was I not?
You really were? And you know, I think as well.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I was trying to think of one of the areas
there where we could get Pat in, but no, Ryan,
you absolutely were. And Pat would say, you know, I'm
not going to do Jim antil a colleague does a
great pat impression. But I like that guy. You know
that ride. He's good. Let's bring him back. So yeah,
you really were. Thank you so much. Thank you guys
(39:32):
both for doing Where We'll go get to read more
of your stuff. Tom, I mean, just google Tom Rogan,
Washington Examiner. Go there and you can enjoy navigating the
minefield that is our website. Probably shouldn't say that, but
you know, you know, I definitely shouldn't say that. But yeah, anyway,
Tom Rogan and Washington Examiner and Claire Well go, we
can read more of your stuff.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
So listeners can buy my book Political Junkies, which is
a history of political media from the Cold War through
the Trump administration. And then I have a sub that
is of the same name, Political Junkies, that is podcast
attached to it. And then you find me all over
the place at the New York Times, at the Yel
Review and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Where's your Twitter? To real This Tenured.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Radical is my Twitter handle, and I'm at Clairepotter dot
com is my website.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Great, thank you guys both for being here, Thanks for
having me. Thanks Roan. Now it's time for asking me Anything.
If you want to be part of the Ask Me
Anything segment, email me Ryan at Numbers Game podcast dot com.
That's Ryan at Numbers gamepodcast dot com. Plural numbers. Email
me any questions. I'll answer anything. This comes from Forrest.
Forrest is Hey, Ryan, love the podcast. I have two
(40:40):
questions for you. It feel free to ignore if they've
already been covered. I highly doubt they have. Forest. My
first question is on Ellen Greenberg's murder in Pennsylvania and
the alleged quote unquote cover up by Governor Josh Shapiro.
Not to get into the weeds, but there's a popular
narrative on social media that Ellen couldn't have stepped herself
ten times in the back of the neck. But if
you look at the autopsy pictures, those stab wounds are
(41:02):
very largely shallow, which in my opinion, is consistent of
self inflicted wounds. Do you have a take on this.
I did not know about this, and I am very
embarrassed I didn't because you know, I love a true
crime and I love the possibility of an interesting take
on true crime. I'm going to look this one up,
Forest and really get to the bottom of it. In
(41:23):
my own personal investigations. I you know, yeah, if it's
a shallow wound, although it would hurt so much, would
you keep doing I guess if you're intent on killing yourself,
you'll do anything. But also do you know if you've
done it enough times to actually I guess bleed out.
It very very interesting. I'm going to look up the
Ellen Greenberg murder and look this up more thoroughly. I
(41:45):
it's also very odd for women to stab themselves. It's
weird for anyone to stab themselves in the back of
the neck, but women, especially women, usually die. Suicide involves
for women most likely to be a pills and stuff.
It's not usually a stab wound. It's not really a stabboe.
For many people, it's mostly either guns or pills. So
I will look that up though. Second question is my
(42:05):
thoughts on Michael Tracy's reporting on the Epstein case, and
specifically the lack of credibility surrounding the accusers. I personally
views reporting as being pole surprised worthy, but curious of
your thoughts. So I know Michael Tracy a little bit.
We did a debate in the city about the Trump administration.
I think that he's very smart and very thorough. I
think that he's I don't know if he's completely right,
but I think that he's onto something. There are several
(42:28):
of the accusers of the Epstein in the Epstein case,
not all of them, but several whose allegations you can
kind of poke holes at. Some have sat there and
said that they were mistaken by who they actually saw
when they actually saw them. It's it's listen, it happened
a very long time ago from any of these women.
(42:49):
Some of them were under influences like drugs and alcohol,
whether that was force them or not. Some of them
were very very young. There's also things with trauma, being
so young that they kind of don't maybe remember clearly.
And also they're meeting men. Who knows if these men
are using the actual names. You know, you wouldn't know
who a wealthy person is when you're fifteen years old,
(43:09):
just because that they're wealthy. And this is also pre internet.
You're not looking this up on your phone in real time.
So I could see how a type of social contagion
for lack of a better term, by some victims to
want to accuse how high profile people could be there.
(43:30):
I'm not saying that they all are but I'm saying
I could see how you've been th this horrible thing,
and you could point that it was you're part of
the you know, the most horrific thing by the most
high profile person. I could see that Michael Tracy's done
a decent job at saying, you know, these victims, some
of them are not being completely honest. So I don't
(43:50):
know if he's I don't. I don't wouldn't go as
far as what Michael's been saying though about it, but
I do think that he is. I think he's very smart,
and I think that he's very thorough in his investigative reporting.
I like him a lot. It's from New Jersey. He's
a good person. His parents, his mom came to the debate,
so she was very lovely. Anyway, that's this episode, guys.
I will see you guys. There's the beginning next week.
We start three episodes a week, so that'll be very exciting.
(44:13):
Please like and subscribe to this podcast. You don't miss
any of them, like on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or on youtubecause now we do videos. Thank you guys
so much. I'll see you guys on Thursday,
Welcome back to a Numbers Game with Brian Grodowski. Thank
you guys for being here. It is the end of
the year. It kind of snuck up on me way
faster than I thought it was. I thought I had
it like one more episode, so I will do a
special episode and then beginning of next year, I promise
you guys want Tory to bring a political consultant like
myself on to answer any questions about running for office
that will have to go back to the following week
(00:23):
into next year. I will get that episode done though.
For you guys, I look forward to it. If you
have questions about question about running for office or what
that's like, or about the inside track of working in politics,
email me Ryan at Numbers Game podcast dot com and
Ryan at numbers Plour Numbers Game podcast dot com and
I'll get to that. Put in the headline campaign episode.
I love to answer that when we get to it.
(00:45):
So for this episode, I thought we'd have a little fun.
I was a guest on a show called The McLaughlin
Group twelve times now for the kids in the audience
who don't know, Sundays used to have Big Talk day
on political news. Right there'd be the whole morning would
basically be political talk shows. Have you Political TALKSHS? And
it used to be matter a lot what they were
saying on Sunday News Sunday talk shows about politics, and
(01:06):
one of those was in the McLaughlin Group. It had
been around for decades by the time that I had joined.
John McLaughlin was a you know, kind of icon in
the media circle up at that point that time. And
there was four different chairs and one was Pat Buchanans,
one was Eleanor Cliffs, one was Clarence Page, and the
fourth was you know, moving around different people. And I
was one of the people and I was there twelve
(01:27):
times and it was actually so great because in most
network studios like CNN or Fox or MSNBC, you know,
there's one hundred different makeup artists and they're all you know,
they get you in the chair, they get you out
of the chair, and they get you, you know, moving
as quickly as possible. At McLaughlin Group, it was a
little bit more on the on the smaller budget, so
they only one makeup artist, which was actually great because
(01:48):
it was one makeup artist for five people, and you
had to show up two hours early because you have
to sit there and get makeup, but allowed for a
lot of downtime to talk to Clarence, Eleanor and Pat,
and like Pat was like an icon to me, So
I got to sit there and kind of chew his
ear off for an hour plus twelve different times. And
Eleanor was also fascinating because, like she was not the
(02:10):
friendliest person in the world, but every once in a
while she would say something in my ears would just
kind of perk up. So one day, Eleanor casually mentions
to me that her son had made a documentary about her,
her brother in law, and I said, Oh, who was
your brother in law? She goes, oh, Montgomery Cliff. I
was like the actor. Like that's like I was raised
by my grandparents, I know, old Hollywood, So I was like,
that's pretty wild. Did you ever meet like Elizabeth Taylor?
(02:32):
She's like no, but I had dinner with marily Monroe
one time, and like that was like fascinating. And they
were just, you know, people of a particular age who
have lived so much and have such interesting stories. It
was like heaven for me because I would just ask
them questions about their life, you know. For the last
couple decades and Pat's life was like no one else's,
so I loved it. The McLauchlan Group had a year
(02:53):
end episode where they would give like the best of,
like the best, like politician, the worst one, all these
questions and I always desire to be on that episode,
and I never was. So this episode's kind of special
because I have on with me two of my friends.
My friend Claire Potter, who is a historian and professor.
She's a wonderful friend of mine. She's politically progressive, she's
very very smart. I'm having her on kind of fill
(03:15):
up the Eleanor Cliff role. And Tom Rogan, who was
the replacement for John McLaughlin and kept that show going
for a couple more years. Tom is my other guest
in the show. He was with me every time I
was on McLoughlin Group, obviously, and he was He's wonderful
and he's super smart. So this will be a very
fun episode looking back, a retrospective of twenty twenty five.
Who was the best, who was the worst? What do
(03:36):
we learn from it all? That's coming up next. So
for today's episode, I have two wonderful guests, my good
friend Claire Potter, who's a historian, former professor and a writer.
And my friend Tom Rogan, who was the host of The
McLaughlin Group when I was on it. He is a
writer at The Washington Examiner. Tom, oh, I'm so excited
(03:56):
to do this because I always wanted to do this
episode when you were the host, and it just never happened.
But it was always fun being on that show. So
first category that I want to ask is who was
the biggest winner of the year? Tom, Who would you
say you're a biggest winner was?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So I'm going to go with the President of Syria,
Ahmed al Shara because of his ability to really, in
the space of less than twelve months, translate himself from
a Jori hartist into someone fetted over by President Trump,
by the Europeans, by a lot of different world leaders.
And as much as Syria has some really significant sectarian
(04:30):
issues issues still with ISIS attacks as we just saw,
has moved that country into a direction that I think
a lot of people thought would be impossible for him.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So he's my big winner of the year. Wow, Okay, Claire,
who's your a big winner of the year?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So Ryan, I'm going to go with Lachlan Murdock after
a multi year Succession drama that actually created a television
series called Succession. Lachlan Murdoch did what he should have
done at the very beginning, what his father told him
to do, which was buy out all of his siblings
and take control of the Fox broadcast a network.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
It was a really good move.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
It means it won't be sold for parts by some
kind of interloper. And much as I kind of a
bore a lot of stuff that comes out on Fox,
it does actually create a conservative center for media against
which everyone else can test themselves.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, and actually is basically almost almost everyone in conservative
media came out of big conservative media, big personality, it
came out of Fox. My biggest winner actually this year
was Gavin Newsom. You know, he left ended twenty twenty
four being kind of embarrassed. He was holding the bag
for Joe Biden until the absolute very end. Kamala Harris
was a longtime political rival who kind of looked like
(05:39):
she had finally edged him out after almost a decade
of the two of them kind of going at it,
and at the end of it he at the beginning
of the year he was trying to figure himself out
he was a podcast host. He was having on Charlie
Kirk and tell him how much his kids liked him.
And then at the end of the year he kind
of found his identity as the biggest national fighter against Trump.
He has a lot of unifying support among the Democrats
(05:59):
in the largest date the country, certainly keeping an eye
on for twenty twenty eight. So for me, he is
the biggest winner of the year. Biggest loser town.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Ali Harmani, the leader of Iran, aging has been rumored
to be dying for coming on a decade now, hanging
on in there, but I think he is sort of
losing steam. The loss I think of exactly exactly the
loss of deterrent's power that Iran has suffered in the
last year under him because of the US and Israeli strikes. Really,
(06:30):
I think taking a hammerbload to the strategic credibility of Iran,
to the significant benefit obviously of the years is Rali's
but also the Sinney Arab monarchy's led by Saudi Arabia,
So a big loss there. Iran I think has never
looked weaker under his premiership. How about you, Claire, is
your biggest loser?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Well, I'm going to say Mike Johnson, the Speaker of
the House.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I think Johnson came into the job as sort of
the person nobody wanted but everybody thought could hold the
coalition together. The only way he's been able to do
that is by basically having the House out of session
over and over and over again and preventing his members
from bringing legislation to the floor. And there's some things
I want to talk about a little later in the broadcast,
(07:13):
but I think Johnson has really shown that he didn't
have the political chops for this job, and that he's
not ambitious for it, and he's not ambitious for himself
in the conventional ways that the speaker's job requires.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Biggest loser for me is Elis Staphonic. She went from
being a possible leader of the Republicans of the House,
a potential presidential candidate, a massive juggernaut fundraiser, a candidate
for governor, and now she's going to be retired before
forty five from politics. A series of bad mistakes from
Elise Daphonic, but a huge rising star for over a decade,
and it is over with a whimper, not a bang tom.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Best politician of the year, Malki Rubio from being someone
who MAGA didn't trust or it was an outsider, clearly
part of the the President's most in a circle, now trusted, liked,
it seems by the MAGA movement, still liked by you know,
the non MAGA Republicans. Has played a very careful game
(08:12):
there by choosing when to come out and make sort
of pointed statements, but ultimately by I think consolidating the
notion that he is a loyalist to the president.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
How about you, Claire best politician?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Well, how can I help the Sazor and Mom Donnie.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
He came from nowhere, four year veteran and I use
the word veteran loosely in the New York State legislature.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
He organized young people.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I think he really took a lot of leaves out
of the MAGA playbook by saying, you know, if you
can get young people and you can hold them together
and put them to work for you, you can win. And
he beat Andrew Cuomo, who is one of the most
horrible people on the planet.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Nobody liked him.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Lots of Democrats voted for him because they were afraid
of Mom Donnie and Mom donnie slight skated through. It'll
be interesting to see how he governs. But definitely he's
the best politician of the year.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, my best politician. We did not coordinate this by that.
My best politician was also Zora Mandani. Don't love his politics,
but it is undeniable that it's upstar assemblymen with really
no real legislative accomplishments to his name, becomes the mayor
of the largest city in the country, started a national
conversation on affordability, and he not only defeated Andrew Cuoma,
(09:26):
which is important, but a lot of other elected officials
in New York, including the speaker of the New York
State Senate sorry, New York City City Council, rather very
very very prominent politicians. He defeated them all and kind
of blowouts that no one saw coming. So I think
Zora Mandani was the best politician. Who was the worst politician?
Tom for me, Kiss.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Starmer, the leader of the UK Prime Minister leader of
the Labor Party, has a very significant majority in the
UK Parliament, but because of a few significant backtrack decisions
that I think showed, you know, weakness over leadership, he
is now pret resigning over really catastrophic opinion polls. Nigel
far surging likely to be the next prime minister a
(10:06):
mittally not until twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
UK economy suffering.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So came in with a lot of potential power, but
because of some poor decisions is really jeopardized that and
now the talk in the UK is a leadership challenge.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Sometime in twenty twenty six Claire worst politician?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Well, okay, Ryan, I was going to say Curtis Sliwell,
but I've decided I like the man too much. And
the really I realized in I thought he was the
worst politician is because he's such a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Fair.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I'm going to choose as a Democrat Jack Schlosberg, who
I find humiliating. I don't know what he thinks he's doing.
I don't know why he's running for Congress. He has
no experience doing anything, and he also seems to be nuts.
And he's another one of those Kennedy people that shows
up and says, vote for me.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
And the question, of course is why why would we
vote for you? Why?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Because I am Jack Kennedy's grandson. No, I don't think
so he's a terrible politician. You should get out of
the race.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Well, My worst politician was Prime Minister Keir Starmer of
the UK. After having his huge majority from the Labor Party,
he has an approval rating that is around the same
as Prince Andrew in just eighteen months, right, I'm not joking.
I actually looked that up. Him and Prince Andrew have
closed the same approval rating, worst of any politicians in
nineteen seventy seven in the UK, and some of his
(11:25):
polls have the Labor Party coming in fourth place in
the next election, which I don't think he's going to
last to the next election unless he just calls one,
because I think that he's in serious trouble. Most defining
political moment of the year.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Tom, I think the Trump tariff announcements with that big
board out on the Rose Garden, the shock that that
caused around the world, the continuing impact that has had
in the United States, for good or ill. It was
a profound moment, just I think, you know, really in
that sense of shock and sweeping the rug out from
(12:01):
under the kind of you know, post Cold war free
trade consensus.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
How about you, Claire. Most of finding I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Say, the refusal of the Indiana legislature to run a
redistricting referendum in early December. I think it was a
real turning point for Trump. You know, every second term
president has to stave off that moment in which he
becomes a lame duck. And I think the amount of
energy that both Trump and jd. Vance put into Indiana
into trying to pressure them to do that, and the
(12:34):
fact that the Republicans said no. I mean, like more
Republicans voted against it than voted for it.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
They didn't even need the Democrats to vote.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And so I think that's a signal to everybody that
says I think Trump's losing control of the party. I
think he's losing his hold on the party, and I
think Indiana was a pivot point.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
My most of finding political moment was Liberation Day. Trump
announced with the terriffs, the yo yos of teriffing not
tariffing people better or worse. It has become the larger
political conversation around the economy, around trade. It has kind
of changed the neoliberal census since the nineteen eighties certainly,
and the media has had a field day with it.
It's become the defining economic conversation around everything, whether it
(13:20):
has nothing to do with terrorifts or not kind of
found their way in the conversation, and it also became
a huge albatross for pulling around Donald Trump's neck. There's
really no going around it. Most charismatic, tom.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I say this as someone who is I think the
only American journalists actually listed under a terrorist to restaurant
as well as sanctions.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So bear that in mind. But Vladimir Putin is my
answer to this. Wow, you look.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
At the conduct of the war in Ukraine, acts have
honor syndrome, which I've done some investment of journalists and
still doing which were I think we will find is
the Russian intelligence services doing some very bad things against
the United States, obviously against Ukrainian civilians. And yet whether
it be President Macron at the moment or President Trump,
still an ability to woo with those KGB red Banner
(14:08):
Institute skills a lot of different people and maintain relevance.
Lorndra Modi, she's saying, you know, Putin is certainly not
down and now and to think, you know, just a
couple of years ago that there was that who attempts
and people were saying Putin is done or he's dying
of an illness. I don't think so Putin is there,
and we have to say whether it is from his
(14:28):
intelligence training or something else. Part of that is the
charisma he's able to apply.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, Claire, most charismatic.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So I'm going to go with Graham Platner, who is
challenging Susan Collins in Maine. Susan Collins has been impossible
to dislodge Maner's love her. Graham Plattner is an oysterman.
The party came to him and said we'd like you
to run. He's part of a new breed of Democratic
candidates which is get white working class people. And let's
(14:55):
just say Graham does in fact own his own oyster business.
Janet Mills came into the race, the very popular governor
went after him.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Immediately.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
This whole thing about the tattoos that he got in
Croatia came out. I thought he handled it splendidly. He
came out, he owned it. He said, you know, when
you are a soldier, you actually sometimes do some really
screwed up things and it's over. So I think he's
got a lot of savvy I think people like him.
You should see his meetings are full of enthusiastic people,
(15:24):
and he's running from the center right.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I think he's going to be the youngest person in
me and I think he's under seventy five and the
whole wait exactly. My most charismatic is Italian Prime Minister
Georgia Maloney. She has managed to become the most powerful
leader in Europe in a country and the most stable
leader in Western Europe, which in Italy, I mean that
(15:47):
was a joke within itself. Italy has never had a
stable government. She's been in for about three years and
she's already the fifteenth longest serving prime minister ever. If
she's survived to the next election, she'll make the top
ten in Italian history. She's become a lion in the
EU and the entire West. Best comeback, Tom, I'm going
(16:08):
to play off what you said earlier, Ryan and Gavin Newsom.
I think the ability to translate this sort of make
sure what he's doing into a really successful social media
profile clearly generating buzz in the Democratic Party. You know,
the guy has reshaped his political narrative and looks, you know,
potentially strong going into twenty twenty eight. How about you
(16:30):
best comeback Layer.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I'm going with Mikey Cheryl. How can I not go
with Mikey Cheryl. You know, she was at a neck
and neck with a two time candidate who looked to
have a lot of juice behind him. We had rising
Republican registrations in New Jersey, as you've been documenting. Ryan
and Mikey Cheryl just nailed it thirteen points, and you know,
God voters back from Trump and made the Democratic Party
(16:53):
sit up and say, wait a second, maybe our old
ways of looking at things aren't going to work anymore.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yay, Mikey Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Her polster was an assana with one of my friends
and he told her she's running for president twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Just no, women, please, please just know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
My first comeback is not a politician. It is Lye
Liam and Noel Gallagher of the band Oasis. After fifteen
years of absolutely hating each other, the brothers came back
for a massive tour around the world. I mean, how
could you not root for that comeback? Most original thinker, Tom.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I think it has to be Donald Trump again.
You know, whatever you think of his policies, the consistent
ability to invent in one day, you know, we don't know.
Write a great example of this in the from Policy says,
what is she going to do tomorrow when Ukraine? Is
he going to blame Zeletski's he going to get blame putin?
You know what what mighty do? And you know, whether
that's the Chinese thinking about Taiwan or Kim jong'an or
(17:47):
obviously domestically, you know, his ability to invent in any
one moment, and you know, as much as it might
seem to be now depleting his ability to corral the
MAGA base around him, I think is fascinating in the
test Matte's original thinker, most original thinker Claire Well.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I'm going to go with two people who work together,
Thomas Massey of Kentucky and Rocanna of California, for reviving
the use of the discharge petition in the Epstein case.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Out of five.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Hundred and sixty three discharge petitions that have been filed
since nineteen thirty one, only twenty six of them have
gotten a floor vote, and only two of them have
become law as and one of them is this Epstein
discharge petition. And they really managed to point it out
that what is standing in the way of bipartisanship in
Congress is the leadership. And they did it in a
(18:36):
way that did not attack their own leadership. They just
didn't end around it. But I think we're going to
see more discharge petitions in the next year. I think
there are a lot of Republicans who want to start
writing legislation, and I think there are a lot of
Democrats who might work with them on that rather than
seeing all the lawmaking coming out of the White House.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
My original thinker is big balls on the other nineteen
and twenty year olds who are a doje and they
just listen sometimes of thinking constantly in the federal government
as you can't do things, and they prove sometimes you
just can. They decrease the federal workforce by ten percent
in under one year, which is pretty unbelievable. Concerning since Reagan,
(19:15):
you've heard that it doesn't happen. Most stagnant thinker tom.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Bernie Sanders, in the sense that the political theater that
was attached to Bernie Sanders that Bernie bros. Obviously is
clearly giving way now to AOC to ma'm darni, there
is a new political narrative that I think Bernie Sanders
has been unable to become part of. Beyond the census,
the sort of godfather for that sort of democratic socialist movement.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
But again, I think clearly a changing with the god there,
and it's something that perhaps he might not be enjoyed.
That's an interesting take.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
How about you, Claire, Chuck Schumer, Chuck Schumer, Chuck Schumer.
He's done, he's cooked. Stick a fork in him, you know.
I think the again, the old democratic thinking that you
you need people who know the system to just sit
there putting their fingers in the dike so that the
flood doesn't come through.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I think that's over. And I think he can't think
his way out of a paper bag. I think Maga.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Moves too fast for him, which is of course what
Donald Trump counts on, and he doesn't.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
He doesn't know how to get away from it.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Most stagnant thinker for me is Tim Woltz, the governor
of Minnesota, who has blamed the crisis of Somali refugees
abusing taxpayer dollars on white supremacy. He's using white supremacy
like a lot of people have for decades. He actually
handed an award Alt Cahol Refugee of the Year Award
to one of these people who had scammed the system,
and he is just kind of floundering third in his
(20:40):
attempt for our third term. Who knows if he can win,
because if it's a good year, but he's not going.
I don't see a Tim Wolls for President sign coming
up on anyone's house over anytime soon. Capitalists the Year,
Tom Navidia's and videos, Johnson Wing, you know whether you
think of that in a good way. And I think
there are certainly questions to be asked that his desire
(21:01):
for profit is overwhelming his patriotic duty in terms of
pushing to sell the most high end or some of
the most high end chips to China. Clearly has has
been able to get President Trump on side and steamroll
the video train forwards. So I would say that, yeah,
I should do a clarification. I do have some stocks
in video, but I think it's a profound mistake that
(21:22):
he is. If you should have invested a couple of
years ago, I mean, if we all could have, we
would have been oh you did, I did.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
But he should not be selling those chips to China
because American sailors, if we go to war with China,
will die because of that.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
So yeah, this film Nvidia, I do not make that
as a monk. Yeah, absolutely, Claire Capitalist of the Year.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
All right, I'm going with Barry Weiss.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
We're talking about somebody who set herself up as a
contrarian when she was in college. She goes to The
New York Times as the sort of conservative affirmative action higher.
She leaves the New York Times with everybody hating her,
she starts a sub stack. She is now sitting on
one hundred and fifty million dollars payout and is in
charge of the CBS newsroom. Granted, she's having some problems,
(22:09):
but I have never seen a young person move up
the ladder so fast, make money so fast, and position
herself as a leader in the industry.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And wants to host every television episode on CBS. Apparently.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yes, And we'll give you Stephen Miller's telephone number if
you want it.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
My Capitalist of the Year is Todd Graves, the founder
of Raising Canes. They surpassed KFC as the third largest
chicken fried chicken food chain in the country, and he's
going to be one of the top one hundred richest
Americans next year likely. So I mean I from Louisiana,
born and bred American. I'm pretty it's pretty astounding where
you can go. Anole mentioned Tom.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I think the continuing cursion of drones across Europe.
We saw it obviously in New Jersey in December last year,
but now it seems to be a lot in Europe,
and some of these, you know, seem to be very strange,
hard to bring down even with the most advanced technology.
Sort of plays into this UFO subject a little bit,
which I've always been quite interested in. You know, there's
a lot of brain, there's a lot of a lot
(23:10):
of a lot of craziness in that subject. But look,
whether it's drones or something else, clearly we have a
inability to defend their space. And as the Ukraine War
has shown, this technological technological evolution is going to create
some seismic effects I think across the political military dimension.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Claire arnoill mention, my honorable mention goes to measles. We've
had these measles outbreaks. We've got more people with diagnosed
with measles this year than we have in any previous year.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Measles has become the fulcrum around.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Which the MAHA movement is turning, and the reason I
would like to see it covered more. Is I think
the majority of people who are very, very anxious about
the effects of vaccines and reluctant to give the children
vaccines are really unaware of the kind of damage it does.
And people talk about measles killing you, but in fact
it also makes you deafit it makes you blind, erects
(24:05):
your heart. I mean, they're just a range of things
that can happen to children who get measles, and I
would like to see more coverage of the disease itself
and treat anti vaxxers as though they were thinking breathing
human beings who really want the best for their children.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
That's great. Under my honorable mention is the utter collapse
of the birth rate in South America and Latin America
as a whole. No nation in the whole of Latin
America has a birth rate at fertility level. A bunch
of countries are already seeing population shrinkage. Puerto Rico is
the fastest declining place in the entire Western hemisphere, Cubis
following and other countries will follow there soon after. There's
(24:41):
also a big push in most parts of Europe to
bring the descendants of European immigrants back from Argentina and
Brazil to Europe to deal with their at youth crisis.
So Honoble mentioned my here best political theater the reaction
to the death of Charlie Cook.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
As much as that was motivation on some clearly to
try and present themselves into the public domain and use
it to their own advantage, there was a pretty bipartisan
sense of revulsion, you know, again, whether the motive was
perhaps not as morally pure with some as with others.
I think it was a positive moment for the country
that everyone could I mean, it should have been right,
(25:19):
and it shows how bad I think things have become
that we I would even say this, but but it
was a moment of unity, and I think that's that's positive.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Best local theater, Claire, I'm going to go with something
a lot lighter, the unraveling of George Santos.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
You know, it was.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
It was very helpful for we Democrats who were just
like devastated after the last election, and all of a sudden,
all this Santos stuff starts coming out and it's just bonkers.
It is like the most bonkers reality show, and more
and more weird stuff kept coming out about the dogs.
He had that whole thing about nine to eleven, and
I was like, wait a second, didn't that happen to
Ryan's mother?
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Did it happen to your mother too?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And you know, it was so much fun and it
was so much fun to watch it play out. And
I'm not even sorry that Trump pardoned him and got
him out of jail. I'm sorry that the people to
whom he owes hundreds of thousands of dollars aren't going
to get their money.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
But on a certain level, it was totally worth it
the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
George told people that we were childhood friends, and I
met him when I was like thirty four years old,
Like told many people me and him grew up.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
He's a sociopath, but he's some kind sociopag.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yes, that's one hundred percent true. People stopped talking to
me afterwards, like, how could you not tell me you
grew up with him? I said, that's another lie. Best
political theater for me was Zoramandani's debate for the New
York City Debate, when they asked him what country would
you visit first, as if the mayor of des Moines
has asked what country they're going to visit first, and
he said, I want to stay in New York City.
Was a great political theater moment. Everyone else was saying
(26:45):
different countries. It was very very smart at when viral
and mayoral debates very rarely ever go viral. Tom Worres's
political theater.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
The Trump Sinetski meeting in February, I thought, you know it,
pay Selatski made a huge strategic hora and turning up
in a say and not playing to Trump's ego, and
a good leader has to do what a good leader
has to do in the moment. But I thought it
was very unseemly and unsightly for a country, a democratic
country that's under attack to be hected in that way,
and I think played to a lot of discomfort among
(27:17):
American allies and supporter of the best American values around
the world.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Worst political theater, Claire.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Well everything that Christy nom does, and I would say
the high point was appearing in front of SEACUT wearing
a fake military uniform as a dollar gold rolex.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
I mean, the.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Woman has absolutely no sense of what it means to
be added public and her.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Wig probably costs more than that. Oh my god, my
worst political in the theater theater was Trump meeting with
Mandani and at the end of it, Trump's talking over
the media, not letting Mandani answer. And when he says
there and says, you know, is is he a socialist
or in Islamist or whatever the question was, and he
said no, which ended at least a find his campaign.
(28:01):
And then when n evens asks a question but trumping
a fascists, he said, don't answer that. You can call
me that horrible political theater on Behalving. For other Republicans,
it was definitely a head scratcher where I couldn't understand
where it was going. Most underreported story, Tom, you think
the Chinese encirclement of Taiwan and increasing pressure against the
Philippines in the South China see in the Philippines Exclusive
(28:24):
Economic Zone ramming ships are doing a lot of things
and that matters.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And why is it underreported Because the US is a
treaty defense ally of the Philippines. We are obliged under
treaty law to come to their aid and the Chinese
are very aggressively pushing the line. Their one miscalculation, one
choice could spark a conflict that frankly a lot of
people would not have seen coming.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Well, I didn't see that. I didn't actually know that
at all, Claire. Most unreported story.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
I was going to say, I have to stick close to Tom.
He clearly knows a lot of things that I don't,
and I feel like such a lightweight next to him.
But the most underreported story for me is what happened
to the QAnon networks dropped out of the news completely
q and On when it formed us. Q Andon had
come from a bunch of other conspiracist tendencies in United
(29:09):
States history that had been around for decades, some of
them over a century. And now all of a sudden,
nobody's interested in QAnon anymore.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
And I actually want.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
To know what they're thinking, what they're doing, how they're
handling the dithering about the Epstein files. And I think
that's reporting somebody needs to be doing.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Wow. Most under reports for me is the ongoing fight
in the Republican Party over AI. Republican governors in deep
red states like Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Tennessee, and Texts are
pushing for more AI regulations. Every poll shows a majority
of voters are want more AI regulation, and President Trump's
second most amount of executive orders after tariffs are on
deregulating AI. He is the AI acceleration. As president, he
(29:51):
wants as much AI possible business as possible, and it
is causing a real conversation over the issues of federalism
and the future of technology in our country. Most over
reported storytime slightly weird one here, I think, but the
continuing obsession on Jamal Kashogi anytime we talk about US
Saudi relations it's a media fixation for obvious reasons. He
(30:13):
was brutally murdered by Bence OLMBN Salmon's orders. But look,
international politics is the sum of more than one man.
That there is a lot more to the US Saudi
relationship than that, for good or real. And I think
it's a good example of media of a challenge in
the media that an obviously emotional point is being translated
into too much coverage. Is it relevant? Yes? Is it
(30:34):
the biggest issue? Not by a long shot. Most over
reported story for you, Claire.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Well, once again, I come in as the Phil donaghue
to Tom's.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
William at Buckley. But I'm going to go with Olivia
Nutsi and Ryan Lizza.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
The most absurd breakup of the year, journalists all over
the place wetting their pants over Olivia having sex of
some car with RFK Junior, who did not win the presidency,
and Ryan Lizza insisting that there would be no RFK
Junior if Olivia had just played it straight and exposed
(31:10):
him and so on, when actually he's.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Just mad that she left him. Ridiculous, stupid story.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
And children, if you ever break up with anybody, do
not put it on your substack.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Never, never, never.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's so crazy. My most over poor story is the
ice raids, the ice rates and how they've been characterized
as this lawless kidnapping of individuals is a lot of
it's overblown, a lot of it is anxiety inducing for
no reason. And and it has been though highly effective
for President Trump to promote self deportations. He will have
(31:42):
the largest decrease of illegal population since Dwight Eisenhower boldest
political tactic.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Nice to be the Trump tariffs again, you know, the
sense of just sweeping that carpet out from under people,
the rug, and you know sticking with it.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I mean, look, you know there have been and deals.
That was expectation the truck that the President would significantly backtrack.
He hasn't done, so he's tinkering around the edges. I mean,
you know, again, a pretty seismic political decision that has
defined the first year of his presipency. How about you
clear boldest political tactic.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I'm going to say Democrats deciding to contest every single
congressional district in Texas. They've never done this, and it
is not only showing a fighting spirit, but it is
the kind of thing Howard Dean was talking about when
he was chair of the Democratic Party back in two
thousand and six, which is, if you don't fight everywhere,
you are in fact going to lose. And I hope
(32:36):
what this is showing is that Democrats are starting to
abandon this business of like, you know, trying to game
out winning the House by three seats or four seats
or five seats, go big or go home?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Guys. Right, Well that's and you also see which trends
how districts are moving when why don't you contest everywhere?
My best, my boldest political tactic was when President Trump's
decision to bomby Ron but not entering prolonged war working
in a broker piece in Israel and Palestine, his entire
Middle East policy President Trump has been very bold, very active,
and probably one of the most effective presence of Middle
(33:11):
East strategy in history. Worst pocal tactic, Tom the Coommanuel
mccron is still the ramifications of his decision to call
that election. Last year.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
We see the utter dysfunction of France in terms of
the government's inability to manage the parliament to pass laws,
and France has a big problem. The trajectory of the
aging population is very generous entitlements. I don't know how
they get out of it. And mcarn is, you know,
reaping the whirlwind if that decision last year worst for about.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I'm going to say Mike Johnson keeping the House out
of session for the entirety of the shutdown that was
almost eight weeks that he sent his members home. He's
losing control of his caucus in my point of view.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
And I also.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Think it is a bit of a template for how
MAGA might actually just fall apart, because those people did
not get elected to just sit in their offices until
Mike Johnson calls them and tells them to come and
vote yes. And so I think there is significant distress
in the Republican Party among certainly representatives, but I think
(34:15):
it's spreading to the Senate that they are simply not
allowed to solve problems that they see in front of them,
and that their constituents are complaining about.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
My worst local tactic was in Europe. It was by
Gets Wilders, the head of the Freedom Party, of the
National Polics Party. This man has spent twenty years trying
to get political power. He finally got it and he
dissolved the coalition in one year. What happened was was
that the other nationalist parties all gained more seats from him,
splintering the vote, and he's out of power again. Twenty
(34:44):
years of literally nothing for one year. People do not
like it when you're politically unstable. And gears Fielders watched
everything that I couldn't believe that he was spending decades
to build. It was over. Sorry to see you go, Tom.
I think I'm maybe sealing for people.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But Rob Reiner, obviously, the specifically the way he responded
to Charlie Kirk's death a lot of conciliation, and you know,
I thought as attendant as a lot of people did,
including in Maga. Interestingly, the President's reaction to Robryna's death
I thought was pathetic.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
How about you, Claire, Sorry to see you go.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Well, I'm going to say my friend Susan Brown Miller,
who I'm writing a book about a biography of her.
She was a radical feminist in the nineteen seventies and
I has wrote a landmark book about rape against our
will men women in rape, which really transformed the landscape
when it came to attending to sexual violence. Susan died
in May at the end of a very long and
(35:38):
useful life, and I think we and I are going
to miss her a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, mine is Charlie Kirk. I mean, I know that
it's kind of redundant because it was obviously the most
high profile pol political one. But I knew Charlie a
little bit. I got to know him since he was
eighteen years old, a little by little, and he always
got better over time and very fore people who in
politics do, and he was a pleasure so and it
was nicer to me than I was to him, and
I did not always deserve Person of the Year.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Tom likes Friedrich Martz, the German chancellor, replacing the most
overrated Western leader in terms of Angela Merkel and then
obviously Olive Schultz. A kind of you know, wet rag
leader in Germany, bolstering Germany stunts in Europe's defense, increasing
defense spending, doing all the things that President Trump has
(36:23):
been insisting Europe should do for years. Still seems slightly
on the outside of the administration. But if you were
judging him by what Trump wanted, you would think he
would be getting a state visit.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So Frederick Mrs Personally Year Claire, I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Say Susie Wiles, first female chief of staff in the
White House. She took a Trump campaign that was, as usual,
totally incoherent, made.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
It run, helped him win.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
She got to shive run to Santas on the way
to Washington, which is always fun to watch. And I
think Susie Wiles has probably created more coherence in the
West Wing than we will see without her, and I
would predict that she's going to be gone before the midterms.
I think that Vanity Fair story was her way of
(37:06):
paving her way out of the White House. But she's
definitely Person of the Year for me. I admire her
a great deal despite our many differences, and she is
a really boss chick.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Well, my Person the Year is Marco Rubio a man
with seven hundred jobs who managed to sit there and
become probably the most not only popular member of the cabinet,
but also believed to be the most competent member of
the cabinet and has done a lot and may end
up remaking foreign policy decisions, helping me make form politicisions
throughout Latin America and the Middle East and Europe. So
(37:39):
not many people could say the same. Macro prediction Tom
last question, Yeah, no end to.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The war in Ukraine. Anything the Ukrainians will agree to
with President Trump, which I think was sort of nearly there.
The Russians will not agree to that decides it too
far apart in terms of what they will accept, So
I think that will continues. How Trump with that obviously
uns Claire Macro prediction.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
I'm going to say that.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
The number of states that agegate or require parental consent
for social media will at least double in twenty twenty six.
They're ten or twelve.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Now.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I think we'll probably get to twenty four or twenty five,
and we're going to see a move for federal legislation
on age gating. I think Australia's move has been really
big Australia has shown that it can be done and
that there is the technology.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
To make it happen. And I think it's one of
the few issues that you see.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Real bipartisanship on and that that bipartisanship will start in
the state houses, but that it will trickle upward into Congress.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
My macro prediction is with the rise of AI and
the increasing need for our grid to produce more energy
and to hold more energy, there is going to be
a big push for nuclear energy in the next year
coming from the White House. It is going to be
one of the few ways that we could sit there
and meet the demand which is going to grow exponentially
over the next three years. Thank you guys so much
for doing that. Was so much fun. This was definitely
(39:01):
a dream of mind us sit there and be able
to do part of those kinds of conversations. And for
the record, Tom I was Pappychanan's favorite guest, was I not?
You really were? And you know, I think as well.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I was trying to think of one of the areas
there where we could get Pat in, but no, Ryan,
you absolutely were. And Pat would say, you know, I'm
not going to do Jim antil a colleague does a
great pat impression. But I like that guy. You know
that ride. He's good. Let's bring him back. So yeah,
you really were. Thank you so much. Thank you guys
(39:32):
both for doing Where We'll go get to read more
of your stuff. Tom, I mean, just google Tom Rogan,
Washington Examiner. Go there and you can enjoy navigating the
minefield that is our website. Probably shouldn't say that, but
you know, you know, I definitely shouldn't say that. But yeah, anyway,
Tom Rogan and Washington Examiner and Claire Well go, we
can read more of your stuff.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
So listeners can buy my book Political Junkies, which is
a history of political media from the Cold War through
the Trump administration. And then I have a sub that
is of the same name, Political Junkies, that is podcast
attached to it. And then you find me all over
the place at the New York Times, at the Yel
Review and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Where's your Twitter? To real This Tenured.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Radical is my Twitter handle, and I'm at Clairepotter dot
com is my website.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Great, thank you guys both for being here, Thanks for
having me. Thanks Roan. Now it's time for asking me Anything.
If you want to be part of the Ask Me
Anything segment, email me Ryan at Numbers Game podcast dot com.
That's Ryan at Numbers gamepodcast dot com. Plural numbers. Email
me any questions. I'll answer anything. This comes from Forrest.
Forrest is Hey, Ryan, love the podcast. I have two
(40:40):
questions for you. It feel free to ignore if they've
already been covered. I highly doubt they have. Forest. My
first question is on Ellen Greenberg's murder in Pennsylvania and
the alleged quote unquote cover up by Governor Josh Shapiro.
Not to get into the weeds, but there's a popular
narrative on social media that Ellen couldn't have stepped herself
ten times in the back of the neck. But if
you look at the autopsy pictures, those stab wounds are
(41:02):
very largely shallow, which in my opinion, is consistent of
self inflicted wounds. Do you have a take on this.
I did not know about this, and I am very
embarrassed I didn't because you know, I love a true
crime and I love the possibility of an interesting take
on true crime. I'm going to look this one up,
Forest and really get to the bottom of it. In
(41:23):
my own personal investigations. I you know, yeah, if it's
a shallow wound, although it would hurt so much, would
you keep doing I guess if you're intent on killing yourself,
you'll do anything. But also do you know if you've
done it enough times to actually I guess bleed out.
It very very interesting. I'm going to look up the
Ellen Greenberg murder and look this up more thoroughly. I
(41:45):
it's also very odd for women to stab themselves. It's
weird for anyone to stab themselves in the back of
the neck, but women, especially women, usually die. Suicide involves
for women most likely to be a pills and stuff.
It's not usually a stab wound. It's not really a stabboe.
For many people, it's mostly either guns or pills. So
I will look that up though. Second question is my
(42:05):
thoughts on Michael Tracy's reporting on the Epstein case, and
specifically the lack of credibility surrounding the accusers. I personally
views reporting as being pole surprised worthy, but curious of
your thoughts. So I know Michael Tracy a little bit.
We did a debate in the city about the Trump administration.
I think that he's very smart and very thorough. I
think that he's I don't know if he's completely right,
but I think that he's onto something. There are several
(42:28):
of the accusers of the Epstein in the Epstein case,
not all of them, but several whose allegations you can
kind of poke holes at. Some have sat there and
said that they were mistaken by who they actually saw
when they actually saw them. It's it's listen, it happened
a very long time ago from any of these women.
(42:49):
Some of them were under influences like drugs and alcohol,
whether that was force them or not. Some of them
were very very young. There's also things with trauma, being
so young that they kind of don't maybe remember clearly.
And also they're meeting men. Who knows if these men
are using the actual names. You know, you wouldn't know
who a wealthy person is when you're fifteen years old,
(43:09):
just because that they're wealthy. And this is also pre internet.
You're not looking this up on your phone in real time.
So I could see how a type of social contagion
for lack of a better term, by some victims to
want to accuse how high profile people could be there.
(43:30):
I'm not saying that they all are but I'm saying
I could see how you've been th this horrible thing,
and you could point that it was you're part of
the you know, the most horrific thing by the most
high profile person. I could see that Michael Tracy's done
a decent job at saying, you know, these victims, some
of them are not being completely honest. So I don't
(43:50):
know if he's I don't. I don't wouldn't go as
far as what Michael's been saying though about it, but
I do think that he is. I think he's very smart,
and I think that he's very thorough in his investigative reporting.
I like him a lot. It's from New Jersey. He's
a good person. His parents, his mom came to the debate,
so she was very lovely. Anyway, that's this episode, guys.
I will see you guys. There's the beginning next week.
We start three episodes a week, so that'll be very exciting.
(44:13):
Please like and subscribe to this podcast. You don't miss
any of them, like on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or on youtubecause now we do videos. Thank you guys
so much. I'll see you guys on Thursday,
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