December 26, 2023 • 43 mins
Jessica is a survivor of child molestation and human trafficking, who found her calling helping other survivors transform painful reminders of their past into symbols of hope. Her nonprofit Atlanta Redemption Ink, and their network of 80 tattoo shops across the country, have helped 673 people get tattoos removed and covered up that were from their sex traffickers, gangs, addiction, or self-harm.
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
We actually do more than just tattoos from exploitation in trafficking.
We cover and remove gang tattoos from former gang members.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We also cover up self harm scars. We all show
people that have been using IVY drugs that are left
with scarring and bruising from IVY drug use.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
We help cover those of us regardless of the trauma
of the depths of desperation. These people in you are
trying to cover up the things that they have to
look at on themselves so they can change the ugliest
time of their life into something pretty, so that they
can get past the daily reminder on their own bodies
of their own trauma. Yes, it is phenomenal. Just welcome
(00:46):
to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm
a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur,
and I've been a football coach Inner City, Memphis And
the last part unintentionally led to an oscar for the
film about our team. It's called Undefeated. I believe our
country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of
(01:07):
fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody
understands on CNN and Fox, but rather an army of
normal folks us just you and me deciding Hey, I
can help. That's what Jessica Lamb, the voice we just heard,
has done. Jessica is a survivor of child molestation and
(01:29):
human trafficking, and she's transformed all of that pain into purpose.
Her nonprofit, Atlanta Redemption Ink and their network of eighty
tattoo shops across the country have helped six hundred and
seventy three people get tattoos removed and covered up that
were from get this, their sex traffickers, gangs, they were
(01:53):
in during times of addiction or even self harm. This
and they're beyond the services are changing lives. I cannot
wait for you to meet Jessica right after these brief
messages from ours and our sponsors, Jessica Lamb, Welcome to Memphis.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I can't wait to talk about the work you do.
But there's a lot to unpack to for our listeners
to understand the work that you do. But before we
even get into it, fair warning, this one's gonna maybe
make you cry. This one's going to probably have you
(02:49):
question all kinds of things about the reality of our society.
And you know, buckle up and brace because as far
and deep as Jessica goes with me today, I don't
want to pull any punches on this because as you
(03:11):
today sit in your car listening or jogging around the
track with your headphones in, or on an airplane or
wherever you're listening to me now, it is likely that
you are in a safe environment and have at least
enough income and enough you're blessed with enough that you
(03:37):
can afford whatever device you're listening to us on. And
we are not often reminded about the situations that exist
ten fifteen, twelve miles from us, where people are living
in not only abject poverty, but circumstances that we don't
(03:58):
really even want to imagine. And Jessica serves people from
those very realities and was once herself part of that,
and we're going to unpack it all. So buckle up
and hopefully you'll learn something from Jessica's story and her
heart and what she does. Now, so let's start off.
(04:24):
Tell me how you grew up.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So I'm one of four kids, and I grew up
in a two parent home. My dad served in ministry.
He is also I grew up messianic Jewish. So my
father is Jewish in my mother.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Messianic Jewish is not what many people get because Messianic
Jewish is like kind of it's jew Ish and christian
Ish and jumbled up and combined into a faith. Right. Yeah,
so I don't know what I'm talking about, but unpack
(04:58):
that for a minute for just give us the elevator
pitch on Messianic Judaism.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Well, I grew up in a Pentecostal church or Assembly
a God church, but my father grew up Jewish, and
so I had an interfaith type of home environment. So
we celebrated Christmas and Hanukkah Passover Rashashana. So we celebrated
both holidays in one home. But I grew up in
an evangelical or Pentecostal church.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Got it interesting? Okay? So are you one of four?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
One of four young?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Where do you fall in backing order? There?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
So I have an older brother, and then I'm the second,
and then I have a younger sister and then a
little brother.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Got it all right? And so you grow up in
this home of four and connected mom and dad and
church going. What's dad do for a living?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Well, my dad's in sales, but he was also a pastor,
so he so.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
He wasn't a lay person, he was actually clergy.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Both of them worked in both my parents worked in
ministry and also did missionary work. We did a lot
of stuff on the streets of Atlanta throughout my whole life,
even at a young age, I grew up doing outreach.
My parents instilled that in us when I was very small.
I actually was sharing the story earlier with somebody on
(06:10):
my way to the airport that when I was seven
years old, my parents gave me a brand new bike
for Christmas and it was the bike that I'd always wanted,
but there was nothing wrong with my bike that I
had before, and so I knew that we were going
to be going downtown and doing outreach that week, and
I was like, Dad, I want to give my bike,
my brand new bike to one of these kids. And
(06:32):
he was like, are you sure, And I was like absolutely.
So I ended up giving my brand new bike that
I had gotten for Christmas to a kid on the streets,
and my parents went back and got me another, you know,
brand new. And I know that sounds a little visu
but I just I just thought it, like it's something
that its always stuck with me. And even when I
(06:54):
was on the streets, I've always had a heart to
help people, Like even when I was in my own mess,
I always tried to find ways to help somebody. And
so it's just been instilled in me at a young age.
And my parents instilled that in me.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean, if they were missionaries and working on
the streets, it's just becomes part of your nature and
who you are. Yeah, and you know, spoiler alert, you
ended up on the streets. But right now we're seven
years old, living in this organic family that seems like
it's perfect from the outside.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, but it wasn't. I experienced some I mean, I'm
just going to jump right in. So at fourteen, we
were always opening our homes up to people in need.
So if there was like a family that was in crisis,
or a family that was homeless or in need of
(07:46):
some help, my parents had a big enough house to
be able to you know, to be able to take
them in, and we would my dad would help them
as much as possible. And there was one man that
they brought in when I was a teenager and my
older brother had gone off to Bible College, and the
guy began sexually abusing me. And he would sneak in
in my room at night and sexually abuse me. I
(08:08):
was fourteen and he was probably in his late twenties,
but he was going through a divorce from domestic violence,
and so he would come in my room. At first,
it started out with I can go buy you a
pack of cigarettes, you know, like it was almost it
was grooming, like, I'll buy you a pack of cigarettes,
you know, I'll help you do this, I'll help you
do that. I'll give you a ride, you know. And
(08:29):
it was just different things that he would do to
get me to be quiet about what he was doing
at night. And so I started sneaking out at my house.
I started self harming.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well when you were all right, First of all, let
me just say this. I think there's a special place
in hell for adults who abuse children. Just want to
say that. It's I just don't. I think it's a
(09:03):
certain level of evil and probably mental sickness as well.
So you're fourteen and you're used to your family reaching
out to people in need, right.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So we actually trusted this man. He actually worked, he
worked in our church.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
He worked in the church.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
He worked in our church, and he was a family
friend and they were trying to help him out.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And so initially, your fourteen year old kid, and your
parents have always done this work and this is just
another person in need and you're trusting.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, I was like, oh, this is a family friend,
and it was. He just felt like he could pray
on me, and he did, and it started just I
started spiraling. And when I began spiraling, like my grade
started going down. I ended up getting kicked out of
school for stealing exact oblates from the heart room so
(09:53):
I could self harm. So I got had got sent
to alternative school. And so when I I went to
alternative school, actually found kids that were like me. But
the person that was driving me to my alternative school
when I wasn't on the bus to go there was
the man that was also sexually abusing me.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So, you know, and a lot of I've heard far
too many sexual abuse stories, but no two or just alike.
And you know, you're fourteen, You've been raised by a
(10:37):
loving mother and father, you know right from wrong, and
this guy starts grooming you. But people got to remember
at fourteen, I remember what I was like at fourteen.
My parents were goobs. They were nerves, they were embarrassing.
I was trying to break out and become my own person.
And so it's really this, it's really this really risky
(10:59):
time for a teen really fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, you're trying
to figure out who you are, but you have no
wisdom to compensate for lots of dangers that come your way.
And so I'm envisioning you at fourteen, this kid in
this house, and you know, I guess my question is
(11:22):
over what period of time from when he showed up
until the abuse started, and then what period of time
did it start having an effect on your behavior? You
see what I'm saying. I'm trying to unpack the timing
of that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well, I want to go back a little bit because
like I was pretty good in school, even though I
was I was in special ed classes because I didn't
really get along really well with the kids in my classes,
and I didn't want to really do the school work.
I kind of wanted to focus on art and drawling
all the time, and they wanted me to focus on
the academics. And I went to a very one of
(11:59):
the best high school or one of the best schools
in Georgia. I was in a great school district, and
I just didn't really fit in with the type of
kids that were there. But where I found my place
was in music. And so I used to compete through
like the Find the Georgia Fine Arts festivals, and I
would sing and I would compete in the yeah vocally yeah,
(12:22):
And I loved it. I wanted to be a singer.
I wanted to work for Pixar Animation. Like these were
my These were like my dreams. And I remember right
before I went to this this competition, I ended up
losing my place because I got so nervous because of
what was going on at home, and I was pacing
(12:44):
the stage, and so I lost points because I was
like dealing with a lot of anxiety and I was
like harboring this secret and so I was pacing the
stage during the competition, and so the judges knocked off
points for that. And I ended up losing out on
nationals because the Gentleman was actually there in the audience
and I was very very nervous because he was there,
(13:06):
and I ended up losing out on my opportunity to
compete nationally. But singing was like my thing. I loved it,
and so yeah, that one. That one was painful, But.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
How long did you keep it a secret?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I kept it a secret for a few months, and
then I got in school suspension for smoking cigarettes because
the guy was giving me cigarettes and razors to self
harm and just to keep me to be quiet. And
so I got caught with cigarettes and went in school suspension.
Passed a note to a kid in the class, and
I was like, Hey, this is what's going on at home.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You told a kid in the class. You didn't tell
your parents first?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, I told a kid in I don't know. I
just I passed a note. Especially how old I am,
I passed a note to I passed a note to him,
and I was like, this is what's going on home?
And the teacher saw me. An iss teacher saw me
pass that note and picked it up, read it and said,
(14:06):
take this home to your parents. I want them to
know what's going on. Have them sign it, and bring
it back tomorrow. So I tried to forge my mom's signature.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Of course, that's what we all did.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Tried to forge my mom's signature. It was very obvious,
because of course your parents signed stuff at school all
the time. It clearly wasn't her signature, and so they.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, why were you so reluctant to tell your parents?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Because it was a family friend and the guy was
telling me. He was like, if you say anything, you're
never going to sing again. Because I used to sing
in church all the time. You're never going to sing again.
No one's going to believe you. Your dad's one of
my friends. You're already getting in trouble at school, you know,
like I was. I was considered like the bad kid
(14:51):
in my family, Like I started getting this reputation of
being the bad girl.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
So he was manipulating everything.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it was coercion, it was grooming, manipulation, all of
those things, trying to get me to do what he wanted.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You've said self harm a couple of times. Did the
self harm start after all this?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Explain self harm? And why because most people listening to
us have heard of people And when you say self
harm and you've said resumes, I assume you were cutting yourself. Yes,
why does someone start? I would this is a complete
gas But are you disgusted with yourself and so you're
(15:34):
harming yourself or.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I remember it just feeling like a release. I actually
had watched a TV show one day and I saw
they highlighted it on this TV show and they were
trying to bring awareness to it. I watched this girl
and she did it, and I was like, hey, that'll
make me feel better. And so I remember trying it,
and then it just became like something that it felt
(16:00):
like it was a way for me to just to
get out whatever I was feeling inside. I know that
doesn't it might not make sense, but to me at
the time, it made sense, and it was something that
made me. It was like smoking a cigarette or or
like just getting some type of relief.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And this guy was providing you not only with cigarettes,
it's not only grooming and manipulate you, but he was
actually providing you with razor blades to hurt yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yes, because when my parents started noticing I had some cuts,
things started like started hiding things that, you know, when
I could hurt myself with. And so the guy would
I used to have this little zeber print makeup bag
that would sit on my dresser and he'd be like,
it's in the zebra bag and so I'd open it
(16:42):
up and there would be cigarettes and razor blades.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And was he sneak in your room at night, and
he was.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, he would sneak in my room at night. He
slept in the room across from me, which was my
brother's room. So when he was away at college, he
was renting that room from my parents, and so he
would sneak in and sexually abuse me. So I started
sneaking out my window because I knew when he was
coming in, so then I would be getting caught sneaking out.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So you were getting away from him. But now you're
getting in trouble for being this bad kid, yep. So like,
so you've got no way to win.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, I was. Basically I was like jale I was.
I was just stuck. I was like, I am. I
was scared to say something to my parents and and.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You were probably at fourteen manipulated enough to actually believe
what you're saying was true. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I was like, oh, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You were already the You're already kind of the black
sheep because you're artsy and all that, right, No, for real,
And you said, well, I was kind of considered the
bad kid, So you're already up against that. Now you're
getting abused, Now you're getting manipulated. A fourteen year old
kid getting manipulated by a thirty year old guy. That's
you know, you can certainly see that. And then you
(17:50):
have nowhere. You feel like, you feel like you have
nowhere to go, so you get out of your room
to get away from this abuse. And by getting out
of the room to get away from the abuse, now
you run away from home, sneak out at night, which
makes you even a worse kid.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, And so then I started hanging out with kids
that were smoking pot and so like, I was like,
oh now I got self harm and I got smoke pot,
smoked cigarettes, and I was and so like I was
just building this bad girl persona. Like I just began
like I stopped, you know, doing good in school. I
stopped singing, my art declined. I started writing really really
(18:24):
dark poetry I love to write. And my parents were like,
what is wrong with our kid? You know, like and
but when I brought that note home, when they actually
called my parents and they said they told them like, hey,
this is what Jessa is saying. And my dad set
(18:45):
me down in our living room, and I remember I
was sitting on the fireplace, hearth on the seat at
the fireplace, and he looked at this man, and he goes,
are you touching my daughter? And he goes, no, you
know she's lying, you know she's doing all this stuff.
And so he completely like was like absolutely not. And
(19:05):
my dad looked at me and he's like, why would
you Why would you say that? And then something clicked
in my brain. I was like, wait, I don't want
this guy to be homeless, like like, that's the first
thing that pops in my brain is not me, and
advocating for myself not dad, helped me. It was I
don't want this guy to be homeless. So I looked
at my dad and out of my mouth, I said,
I made it all up. I'm sorry, it's not true.
(19:25):
It's not true, Dad, I'm sorry. I made it all up.
And so, of course that continued to build up the
bad reputation of me being the bad kid.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Did it embolden this man to continue with the behavior?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, he continued the behavior, and he was like, don't
try to pull that again. I'll take away your cigarettes.
You know, like he just he was just constantly doing this.
He was doing this for about a year.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You lived in that house with that going on for
one year NonStop. Yeah. Meanwhile, you're perpetually falling down a
spiral of just dark, dark dark. I'm so sorry that
(20:17):
the uh, the depth of that, the reality is although
at that time I know you felt like you were
all alone in the world. The truth is which we'll
get to. Unfortunately, this is not that uncommon a story
and our society is it. I'm sorry, it's okay. I'm
(20:39):
so sorry that you're crying. I just it's very brave
of you to share this. People need to hear it,
people need to understand that there's people like this all
over the all over the country, kids dealing with this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It's fine, and I promise is good, dude. I'm good.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, you sure.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah. I can't share my story without crying. It's impossible.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I can't. I can't. I get it. It's hard for
me to hear without crying. And now a few messages
from our general sponsors. But first, I hope you'll subscribe
to the podcast so that you can get the newest
episodes in your library every week. And also please consider
(21:28):
signing up to join the Army at Normalfolks dot us
because together we can improve this country. And you'll also
receive weekly email updates about the Army that you can
even read. Guys, We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
But yeah, I live like that for about a year.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And so now you're sixteen. Yep.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So no, I'm sixteen. And I ended up dropping out
of high school. And when I dropped out of high school,
my parents were like, well, you don't have to get
your GED. And because I had just completely threw my
academics out the window, like I had like the education
of a sixth grader like I or a ninth grader
(22:18):
or whatever, I just you know, I just didn't I
couldn't even pass the GED. And I took it multiple times.
I tried to get a job busting tables as a waitress,
and like just everything was just dead end. And they
were like, if you've got to get a job, well,
I can't get a job with out of high school diploma.
(22:39):
I can't pass the GED. So I'm like, dang, dude,
like I'm stuck. And I ended up getting in a
really bad fight with my dad and he found cigarettes
in my room and money had gone missing in the
house and he thought that I had taken it, and
and like I swear to this damn thirty eight years old,
I never took that money. And he was like, you
(23:02):
gotta get out. He's like, I'm tired of all this craziness.
I'm tired of this, this and this. Get out. And
so I was like fine, and so I left and
I actually moved in with my memal, who is still
alive today.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Grandmother.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yes, my Memal is my grandma. She's my freaking hero.
But I'll get to that today too. But I moved
in with my Memal for a few months, and my
dad was like, I think you might be a little
too much for your grandma to live in her house,
so why don't you come back. We'll try this again.
(23:39):
So at sixteen, I came back, and then I just
kept getting in fights. I tried to get that ged again.
I couldn't get any kind of stable job, and I
started flipping through these papers called The Creative Loafing in Atlanta.
It's an art magazine and I'm into art and music,
so I'm looking for jobs and there was a want
(24:01):
ad in there and it said, uh, there was a
customer service representative job open with free room and board.
And I was like, I'm going to show the world
that I can get a job. I'll have my own
place before my high school class, even graduates, and so
I called this phone number and a lady answers and
(24:22):
I tell her. I was like, man, I'm not getting
I'm not getting along with my folks here. I was like,
I know, I'm young. I was like, but you know,
I'm out of school. I'm trying to get my high
school diploma. And I was like, I just need a job,
and she's like, oh, we always have openings, and I
was like cool. I was like, I can work a telephone,
you know, I can do that and I'll have my
own apartment. Like cool, this works. And I was like, well,
(24:46):
let me let me think about it. And so it
took me a couple of months, gotten another really bad
fight with my dad. He finally had had enough of
me and he was like get out. He's like I'm done.
So I was like fine, and I left. I stayed
with a friend from my church one night, and I
thought I hadn't made because like, he worked at this
(25:07):
studio in Atlanta music studio and I hung out with
him and the next day he's like he throws twenty
dollars on the coffee table and he's like, here's some
gas money. You can't live here, and I was like, what,
you know, where am I going to go? Because I
didn't want to be a burden on my grandmother, I
(25:27):
couldn't go home.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So this dude still at home, the abuser.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, he was still in the house.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Oh forgot's sake.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
He ended up leaving, but he was still in the
house when I was going through this. So I I
called the ad. I called that in the paper and
I was like, hey, I got twenty dollars to my name.
And I remember driving to the Chick fil A off
of Druid Hills in Atlanta and I got myself a
chicken biscuit, put the rest of it in my gas tank,
(25:59):
bought a packast cigarettes. I had someone go in and
buy me a pack of cigarettes, and then I drove
out to Griffin, Georgia, where I met this man at
a gas station and he was like he's standing out
there and I was like, where's your car. It's in
the shop, and He's like, the house is just right
down the road. And I was like, okay, Like I
am night. Can I cuss on here? I'm naives all right,
(26:22):
I'm a teenager, you know, And I'm like, I don't
know what's going on, and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Like, and you're traumaized.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, And I got trauma and I don't know where
to go, and I just felt completely helpless. So I
go to this house and I walk in and it's
pretty empty except for there was two other young ladies
in the house and I hear the door shut behind me,
and I'm like, this doesn't feel right. I was like,
something's not right here, and I remember just feeling completely cold.
(26:52):
And I turned around and he looked at me, and
he was very direct with his intentions and.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Which were what.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
He was like, you're gonna do this, this and this?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
What is this? This and this?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You're basically sex work. He was like, you're going to
go on these calls with this girl and her name,
we'll just call her for radio sake, we'll call her Tiffany.
You're going to go on these calls with Tiffany, and
you're going to service and you're going to do this,
this and this. Yeah. I just I don't want to, Okay,
(27:29):
I'm sure. Yeah, I'm like I don't think.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So. And I was like, you're going to go on
calls and you're going to see.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
John's Yeah, I'm going to see John's.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
What you're asked to sexually.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, and and the sexual abuse from the man that
was living in our house. There was never intercourse. It
was just you know, touching, a molestation and things like that.
And so when I met my trafficer, I was a virgin.
So my first call, I remember walking down the hall
the hotel and I remember going in there with Tiffany
(28:06):
and I was like, I don't know what to do,
and I was I was shaking. I was like, I
don't what's on the other side of that door, you know.
I like, I had no idea. And she's like, if
you tell Cy, which was what my trafficker called himself,
you tell him that I did this, we're both gonna
be in a lot of trouble. And so she took
my first call for me. She's like, I will not
(28:28):
do this again. You have to do this or you
know this and this will happen. And so I was
like terrified. And so she took my call for me
made three hundred bucks within like an hour, and I
was like, I actually thought that I got to keep
that money, Like I actually thought that money would in
my pockets. She handed me the money and I was
(28:49):
supposed to hand it over to Cy and I actually
call him Ka on the internet. But I handed or
I had the money in my pocket and he's like,
where's the money and I was like, I have it.
I was like I did it, you know, and I
was like, it's my job. It was my call. And
he's like, no, honey, that's not how this works. And
so I ended up having to I took the money
(29:11):
out of my pocket and I tried to give him
half of it and he's like, no, I get all
of that and he's like, I'll hold on to it
and I'll give you money at the end of the week.
And I was like, oh, okay. And so like it
was call after call after call until like, how old
are you at this point, I'm seventeen, Okay, So all
of this is ripe. Yeah, yeah, because I I didn't
(29:34):
want to be there. I didn't want to do any
of this, and so.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It was just you know, people would say, well, you're
seventeen years old, you know what you're doing. You want
to answer that, by the way, before you reach across
the table and slap the crap out of me. I'm
playing Devil's Advocate and teeing this up for you to
answer that, because some people will say, seventeen years old,
(29:58):
eighteen years old, trouble girl, You've had a car, you
could have got driven away, And they don't understand the
mental manipulation and the and the and the power that
these girls give into and the fear. Can you speak
to that?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
So people ask me this question, They say this a
lot to me. They were like, well, sixteen is age
consent or seventeen is the age of consent. And I
was like, I didn't consent to any of it. And
I did have a car and I could have left,
but I didn't have anywhere to go. And there was
so much mind God, this is such a bad word,
(30:41):
but there's so much mind furey and manipulation. And like
basically he was like, your family's not going to take
you back. That's why you're here. You know you can't.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
So you went from one manipulation and grooming in your
home to another level of manipulation and grooming yeah by
a professional rat.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah. So he's like, you have nowhere to go. I
know where your parents work, I know where you live.
He's like, you're going to work for me, You're going
to do this and so like three months in, I mean, yeah,
I could have gotten in my car and left, but like,
where was I going to go? Like I didn't have
any friends to go to. I couldn't have stayed with
any of my friends I didn't have. I didn't want
(31:24):
to be a burden on my grandmother because that's always
what was sticking in my mind, is like she's older
and she was a widow, and I was like, I
don't want to keep having to go back to her
and put more on her. And I knew I couldn't
go home because I knew I was just going to
get kicked out again. So I was like, where am
I going to go? So I stayed not because I
(31:45):
wanted to, it's because I didn't have any options.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
They're about three months in. He was like, you know,
you're not giving me any trouble. So he's like, I
want you to show me that you're loyal to me.
He's like, I'm gonna take you to this tattoo shop
down the road and we're going to tattoo you with
the same thing that Tiffany had. So I go into
this tattoo shop and I was like, I'm not even
(32:30):
old enough to get a tattoo in say of Georgia,
you have to be eighteen to get to get a
tattoo in a professional tattoo shop. And he's like the
guy the artist had a fetish or a fantasy of
getting oral sex while tattooing someone. So Tiffany gives him
(32:53):
oral sex in exchange for my tattoo. And I was
tattooed on my wrist and on my backside.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
One time, yes, at the same.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Time, at the same time. So I had this tattoo
on me, on my wrist and all my backside, and
I felt disgusting.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
And I also branded. Yeah, I mean yeah, he became property.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, people refer to it ave branding, tagging tattoos, but
usually sometimes when people hear branding, they think of burns, like.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
No, But what I'm saying is we're not going to
discuss what the tattoos are but or were. But the
point is this was more and more depth of drawing
you into a place you could get out of. And
this tattoo was, when I say, branding, marking, whatever, it
(33:50):
was further connecting you to your to trafficker. Yeah, and
the trafficker is a pimp basically, right.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, he was basically my my Well I don't I
didn't call him my pimp, but he was my trafficker.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, by me. What's the difference in a traffic growing
up pimp?
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I don't see a difference neither.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Okay, So tattoos.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I get tattooed, and I felt gross with this on
my body and immediately yeah, well, I mean of course
I felt immediately. I I'm in a situation that I
don't want to be in. I'm with a group of
people that I don't want to be around. I'm doing
things that I don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Is the drug involved?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
No, I did not use any drugs when I was
I mean, I said from No. He was pretty particular
about us not using any type of drugs. Now, there
were times that like we would have like uppers, not
like like illegal drug, but like something to yeah, like
no dose or whatever. And then we had things like
then we were allowed to smoke pot and but that
(35:01):
was it, and then he was very particular about what
kind of clients that we saw. It was just it
was literally a nightmare. And I remember how.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Many girls I know you, and there was Tiffany.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
There was me, Tiffany and another girl that were in
this house together.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Did he quote recruit them the same way that you
got recruited?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Tiffany was a bottom. A bottom, A bottom is his
main girl, and so she's the one that recruited me,
and then I'm assuming the other girl was recruited by
her as well.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
So when you called up this ad, she's the one
that answered, thinking you're going to get a job. You
were talking to Tiffany, yes, and they're completely lying to you,
and then they show you show up and it's everybody's
in on it, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, everybody was in on it. There was a bunch
of people in this house, or all three of us
were in this house. And then the trafficker's nephew was
living upstairs in the apartment taking college classes, which was
really weird because he was not on any of it.
He was just separate from everything, which I really don't
talk about my story because it's irrelevant to my story, but.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
It's still it was just a function.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, it was very odd.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah did you ever were you ever there when they
tried to recruit another girl.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I never saw them trying to recruit another girl. I
was only with with with Cipher six months. The last
night that I was with him, I was on a
call and I was in a hotel room and it
was across the street from a strip club, and I
was staying in this hotel and I remember looking out
the window and thinking, I bet I would be so
(36:43):
much safer in there than I am in here in
the strip club. Yeah. Which there's kind of a funny
story that ties into one of my best friends that
I now work with anti trafficking with because she was
actually leaving that exact club at the same time that
I was trying to get out of my tell room.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So but I remember that night. I looked at Si
and I was like, I don't want to do this
anymore and I'm not going to And he was like,
come again, and I was like, I'm not doing this
anymore and I'm not going to. I was like, I
want to go home. I was like, I'm seventeen. I
don't want to be here. I want to go home.
No one's going to take you back, no one's gonna
(37:23):
no one's ever gonna want to be with you. You're damaged goods.
No one's going to love you, No one's gonna want
to No one's gonna want to be with your ass,
you know, like all kinds of things like that, just
completely stripping away every every bit of dignity, every bit
of my self esteem, the things that would come out
of his mouth, like he thought it was always funny,
and it wasn't. It was very damaging.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
And I just remember, the farther he breaks you down,
and the less self esteem and dignity you have, the
more you become this puppet, yeah, and the more dependent
upon him you are in a weird sense.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
And he was like, the guys that we know, the
guys that are calling they like you because you're younger.
The guys that we call it, they like you because
you know, you're petite. They like you because of all
this other stuff. And I was like, He's like, you're
making me good money. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm
making you good money, but why are we going to Applebee's?
You know, Like, if I'm making you good money, why
are we you know, why why are you making me
(38:21):
like do this that? You know, Like it's just it
made no sense. And I never saw a dime of
any of them.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I was gonna did he ever pay you at the
end of the week.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
No, I never got paid for one dollar. No, I
never got I never had any money.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
So you were working for a roof and some food.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yep, not even good food. No offense to Applebee's, but
it wasn't even good food.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Like, I know this is not commonal but.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I know, I'm sure it's It's the way I'm dealing.
That's the way I deal with trauma sometimes is I'm
I crack a joke and I know it's not a
funny matter, but I'm trying. I'm trying to get it
pushed through this.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I completely get it. So this night you say you're out,
and he.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, he got very angry with me.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
And did you ever feel physically threatened?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
He was never physically violent with us until the night
I told him I wanted to leave. And the night
that I told say that I wanted to leave, I
was like, I want to get my things and leave.
And I was like, I'm seventeen, I want to go home.
And that's what he was telling me, that no one
(39:32):
ever will love me and I was worthless, no good
and all this kind of stuff, and he was like,
you know what, go in the house. And get your
shit out. And I was like, WHOA, that was easy,
you know, Like I was like whow. I felt like
this big relief. So I remember walking onto the steps
to go get my things, and all I had was
(39:54):
like a book bag, a couple pieces of jewelry, and
my keys to my car that he used, and it
was actually the car that my grandmother gave me. And
I hear footsteps come behind me, and he came really fast,
and I remember turning around and he was coming after me,
(40:15):
and I remember I froze and I fell to the floor,
and then he took me by my hair and dragged
me up exactly twelve flights of step or twelve stairs.
I remember because I counted them. So I would always
say that I was I'm batite in my height, but
he would saying I was overweight, and so he would
make me walk up and down those steps every day
(40:36):
for exercise because he said that he didn't want any
fat girls working for him. So he grabbed me by
my hair, and I remember trying to stay present, and
I counted each step up to twelve and then so
I tried to take my life that night, and I
what he tried to end my life, how he pulled
(41:00):
a knife on me, pulled out a trash bag, said
he was gonna cut my tongue so I wouldn't so
I could never speak or say anything about him. But
I remember him pulling open this big trash bag saying
that he was gonna stuff my body in it. And
I remember staring at the door to his bedroom that
(41:25):
I was in with him, and I was screaming, and
he was like, if you don't shut up, I'm gonna
cut your tongue out. And I remember like this is
gonna sound so stupid to some people, but to me,
I will never forget it. I remember like picturing my
dad coming in there in a superhero cape. You're getting
me out of there, and nobody came and I nobody
(41:51):
came and got me, and I just thought I fought
like hell. And I started telling him. I was like,
I'll do anything, don't kill me.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
And he.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
So he made me give him oral sex, and he
was like, they're gonna learn not with me, and I
was like, I promise, I'll behave I'll be good. I'm sorry,
I love you, I I'll be loyal, I won't fight
you anymore. Just don't kill me, and he was like,
(42:27):
everything kind of calmed down after a couple hours, and uh,
and he.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Was like.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I ended up falling asleep and he was sleeping. He
slept and he had his arm over me, and I remember,
like I did. I couldn't sleep that well, but I
was trying to go to sleep, and I remember the
next morning, I tried to move and I felt him
bear down on me, and he goes, where do you
think you're going? And I was like, I just need
(42:57):
to go to the bathroom, and he goes, if he
think about leaving, I'm going to put two in the
back of your head. And I was like, I'm not
going to leave. I love you, I'm loyal. I promised
you last night that I won't leave. And I said,
I'm just gonna go pee and I'll be right back.
And I was like, might smoak a cigarette, that's it.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And he was like, all right, wow, y'all, that's just
a situation. I don't think many of us can ever
imagine even being in. And we'll hear what happened next
in Part two. So that concludes Part one of my
conversation with Jessica Lamb, and Part two is now available,
(43:40):
which I promise you do not want to miss and
the Redemption part of this story is coming soon. Guys,
I promise I'll see you in part two.
We actually do more than just tattoos from exploitation in trafficking.
We cover and remove gang tattoos from former gang members.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We also cover up self harm scars. We all show
people that have been using IVY drugs that are left
with scarring and bruising from IVY drug use.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
We help cover those of us regardless of the trauma
of the depths of desperation. These people in you are
trying to cover up the things that they have to
look at on themselves so they can change the ugliest
time of their life into something pretty, so that they
can get past the daily reminder on their own bodies
of their own trauma. Yes, it is phenomenal. Just welcome
(00:46):
to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm
a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur,
and I've been a football coach Inner City, Memphis And
the last part unintentionally led to an oscar for the
film about our team. It's called Undefeated. I believe our
country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of
(01:07):
fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody
understands on CNN and Fox, but rather an army of
normal folks us just you and me deciding Hey, I
can help. That's what Jessica Lamb, the voice we just heard,
has done. Jessica is a survivor of child molestation and
(01:29):
human trafficking, and she's transformed all of that pain into purpose.
Her nonprofit, Atlanta Redemption Ink and their network of eighty
tattoo shops across the country have helped six hundred and
seventy three people get tattoos removed and covered up that
were from get this, their sex traffickers, gangs, they were
(01:53):
in during times of addiction or even self harm. This
and they're beyond the services are changing lives. I cannot
wait for you to meet Jessica right after these brief
messages from ours and our sponsors, Jessica Lamb, Welcome to Memphis.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I can't wait to talk about the work you do.
But there's a lot to unpack to for our listeners
to understand the work that you do. But before we
even get into it, fair warning, this one's gonna maybe
make you cry. This one's going to probably have you
(02:49):
question all kinds of things about the reality of our society.
And you know, buckle up and brace because as far
and deep as Jessica goes with me today, I don't
want to pull any punches on this because as you
(03:11):
today sit in your car listening or jogging around the
track with your headphones in, or on an airplane or
wherever you're listening to me now, it is likely that
you are in a safe environment and have at least
enough income and enough you're blessed with enough that you
(03:37):
can afford whatever device you're listening to us on. And
we are not often reminded about the situations that exist
ten fifteen, twelve miles from us, where people are living
in not only abject poverty, but circumstances that we don't
(03:58):
really even want to imagine. And Jessica serves people from
those very realities and was once herself part of that,
and we're going to unpack it all. So buckle up
and hopefully you'll learn something from Jessica's story and her
heart and what she does. Now, so let's start off.
(04:24):
Tell me how you grew up.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So I'm one of four kids, and I grew up
in a two parent home. My dad served in ministry.
He is also I grew up messianic Jewish. So my
father is Jewish in my mother.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Messianic Jewish is not what many people get because Messianic
Jewish is like kind of it's jew Ish and christian
Ish and jumbled up and combined into a faith. Right. Yeah,
so I don't know what I'm talking about, but unpack
(04:58):
that for a minute for just give us the elevator
pitch on Messianic Judaism.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Well, I grew up in a Pentecostal church or Assembly
a God church, but my father grew up Jewish, and
so I had an interfaith type of home environment. So
we celebrated Christmas and Hanukkah Passover Rashashana. So we celebrated
both holidays in one home. But I grew up in
an evangelical or Pentecostal church.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Got it interesting? Okay? So are you one of four?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
One of four young?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Where do you fall in backing order? There?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
So I have an older brother, and then I'm the second,
and then I have a younger sister and then a
little brother.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Got it all right? And so you grow up in
this home of four and connected mom and dad and
church going. What's dad do for a living?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Well, my dad's in sales, but he was also a pastor,
so he so.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
He wasn't a lay person, he was actually clergy.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Both of them worked in both my parents worked in
ministry and also did missionary work. We did a lot
of stuff on the streets of Atlanta throughout my whole life,
even at a young age, I grew up doing outreach.
My parents instilled that in us when I was very small.
I actually was sharing the story earlier with somebody on
(06:10):
my way to the airport that when I was seven
years old, my parents gave me a brand new bike
for Christmas and it was the bike that I'd always wanted,
but there was nothing wrong with my bike that I
had before, and so I knew that we were going
to be going downtown and doing outreach that week, and
I was like, Dad, I want to give my bike,
my brand new bike to one of these kids. And
(06:32):
he was like, are you sure, And I was like absolutely.
So I ended up giving my brand new bike that
I had gotten for Christmas to a kid on the streets,
and my parents went back and got me another, you know,
brand new. And I know that sounds a little visu
but I just I just thought it, like it's something
that its always stuck with me. And even when I
(06:54):
was on the streets, I've always had a heart to
help people, Like even when I was in my own mess,
I always tried to find ways to help somebody. And
so it's just been instilled in me at a young age.
And my parents instilled that in me.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean, if they were missionaries and working on
the streets, it's just becomes part of your nature and
who you are. Yeah, and you know, spoiler alert, you
ended up on the streets. But right now we're seven
years old, living in this organic family that seems like
it's perfect from the outside.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, but it wasn't. I experienced some I mean, I'm
just going to jump right in. So at fourteen, we
were always opening our homes up to people in need.
So if there was like a family that was in crisis,
or a family that was homeless or in need of
(07:46):
some help, my parents had a big enough house to
be able to you know, to be able to take
them in, and we would my dad would help them
as much as possible. And there was one man that
they brought in when I was a teenager and my
older brother had gone off to Bible College, and the
guy began sexually abusing me. And he would sneak in
in my room at night and sexually abuse me. I
(08:08):
was fourteen and he was probably in his late twenties,
but he was going through a divorce from domestic violence,
and so he would come in my room. At first,
it started out with I can go buy you a
pack of cigarettes, you know, like it was almost it
was grooming, like, I'll buy you a pack of cigarettes,
you know, I'll help you do this, I'll help you
do that. I'll give you a ride, you know. And
(08:29):
it was just different things that he would do to
get me to be quiet about what he was doing
at night. And so I started sneaking out at my house.
I started self harming.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well when you were all right, First of all, let
me just say this. I think there's a special place
in hell for adults who abuse children. Just want to
say that. It's I just don't. I think it's a
(09:03):
certain level of evil and probably mental sickness as well.
So you're fourteen and you're used to your family reaching
out to people in need, right.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So we actually trusted this man. He actually worked, he
worked in our church.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
He worked in the church.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
He worked in our church, and he was a family
friend and they were trying to help him out.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And so initially, your fourteen year old kid, and your
parents have always done this work and this is just
another person in need and you're trusting.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, I was like, oh, this is a family friend,
and it was. He just felt like he could pray
on me, and he did, and it started just I
started spiraling. And when I began spiraling, like my grade
started going down. I ended up getting kicked out of
school for stealing exact oblates from the heart room so
(09:53):
I could self harm. So I got had got sent
to alternative school. And so when I I went to
alternative school, actually found kids that were like me. But
the person that was driving me to my alternative school
when I wasn't on the bus to go there was
the man that was also sexually abusing me.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So, you know, and a lot of I've heard far
too many sexual abuse stories, but no two or just alike.
And you know, you're fourteen, You've been raised by a
(10:37):
loving mother and father, you know right from wrong, and
this guy starts grooming you. But people got to remember
at fourteen, I remember what I was like at fourteen.
My parents were goobs. They were nerves, they were embarrassing.
I was trying to break out and become my own person.
And so it's really this, it's really this really risky
(10:59):
time for a teen really fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, you're trying
to figure out who you are, but you have no
wisdom to compensate for lots of dangers that come your way.
And so I'm envisioning you at fourteen, this kid in
this house, and you know, I guess my question is
(11:22):
over what period of time from when he showed up
until the abuse started, and then what period of time
did it start having an effect on your behavior? You
see what I'm saying. I'm trying to unpack the timing
of that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well, I want to go back a little bit because
like I was pretty good in school, even though I
was I was in special ed classes because I didn't
really get along really well with the kids in my classes,
and I didn't want to really do the school work.
I kind of wanted to focus on art and drawling
all the time, and they wanted me to focus on
the academics. And I went to a very one of
(11:59):
the best high school or one of the best schools
in Georgia. I was in a great school district, and
I just didn't really fit in with the type of
kids that were there. But where I found my place
was in music. And so I used to compete through
like the Find the Georgia Fine Arts festivals, and I
would sing and I would compete in the yeah vocally yeah,
(12:22):
And I loved it. I wanted to be a singer.
I wanted to work for Pixar Animation. Like these were
my These were like my dreams. And I remember right
before I went to this this competition, I ended up
losing my place because I got so nervous because of
what was going on at home, and I was pacing
(12:44):
the stage, and so I lost points because I was
like dealing with a lot of anxiety and I was
like harboring this secret and so I was pacing the
stage during the competition, and so the judges knocked off
points for that. And I ended up losing out on
nationals because the Gentleman was actually there in the audience
and I was very very nervous because he was there,
(13:06):
and I ended up losing out on my opportunity to
compete nationally. But singing was like my thing. I loved it,
and so yeah, that one. That one was painful, But.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
How long did you keep it a secret?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I kept it a secret for a few months, and
then I got in school suspension for smoking cigarettes because
the guy was giving me cigarettes and razors to self
harm and just to keep me to be quiet. And
so I got caught with cigarettes and went in school suspension.
Passed a note to a kid in the class, and
I was like, Hey, this is what's going on at home.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
You told a kid in the class. You didn't tell
your parents first?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, I told a kid in I don't know. I
just I passed a note. Especially how old I am,
I passed a note to I passed a note to him,
and I was like, this is what's going on home?
And the teacher saw me. An iss teacher saw me
pass that note and picked it up, read it and said,
(14:06):
take this home to your parents. I want them to
know what's going on. Have them sign it, and bring
it back tomorrow. So I tried to forge my mom's signature.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Of course, that's what we all did.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Tried to forge my mom's signature. It was very obvious,
because of course your parents signed stuff at school all
the time. It clearly wasn't her signature, and so they.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, why were you so reluctant to tell your parents?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Because it was a family friend and the guy was
telling me. He was like, if you say anything, you're
never going to sing again. Because I used to sing
in church all the time. You're never going to sing again.
No one's going to believe you. Your dad's one of
my friends. You're already getting in trouble at school, you know,
like I was. I was considered like the bad kid
(14:51):
in my family, Like I started getting this reputation of
being the bad girl.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
So he was manipulating everything.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it was coercion, it was grooming, manipulation, all of
those things, trying to get me to do what he wanted.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You've said self harm a couple of times. Did the
self harm start after all this?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Explain self harm? And why because most people listening to
us have heard of people And when you say self
harm and you've said resumes, I assume you were cutting yourself. Yes,
why does someone start? I would this is a complete
gas But are you disgusted with yourself and so you're
(15:34):
harming yourself or.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I remember it just feeling like a release. I actually
had watched a TV show one day and I saw
they highlighted it on this TV show and they were
trying to bring awareness to it. I watched this girl
and she did it, and I was like, hey, that'll
make me feel better. And so I remember trying it,
and then it just became like something that it felt
(16:00):
like it was a way for me to just to
get out whatever I was feeling inside. I know that
doesn't it might not make sense, but to me at
the time, it made sense, and it was something that
made me. It was like smoking a cigarette or or
like just getting some type of relief.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And this guy was providing you not only with cigarettes,
it's not only grooming and manipulate you, but he was
actually providing you with razor blades to hurt yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yes, because when my parents started noticing I had some cuts,
things started like started hiding things that, you know, when
I could hurt myself with. And so the guy would
I used to have this little zeber print makeup bag
that would sit on my dresser and he'd be like,
it's in the zebra bag and so I'd open it
(16:42):
up and there would be cigarettes and razor blades.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And was he sneak in your room at night, and
he was.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, he would sneak in my room at night. He
slept in the room across from me, which was my
brother's room. So when he was away at college, he
was renting that room from my parents, and so he
would sneak in and sexually abuse me. So I started
sneaking out my window because I knew when he was
coming in, so then I would be getting caught sneaking out.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So you were getting away from him. But now you're
getting in trouble for being this bad kid, yep. So like,
so you've got no way to win.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, I was. Basically I was like jale I was.
I was just stuck. I was like, I am. I
was scared to say something to my parents and and.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You were probably at fourteen manipulated enough to actually believe
what you're saying was true. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I was like, oh, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You were already the You're already kind of the black
sheep because you're artsy and all that, right, No, for real,
And you said, well, I was kind of considered the
bad kid, So you're already up against that. Now you're
getting abused, Now you're getting manipulated. A fourteen year old
kid getting manipulated by a thirty year old guy. That's
you know, you can certainly see that. And then you
(17:50):
have nowhere. You feel like, you feel like you have
nowhere to go, so you get out of your room
to get away from this abuse. And by getting out
of the room to get away from the abuse, now
you run away from home, sneak out at night, which
makes you even a worse kid.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, And so then I started hanging out with kids
that were smoking pot and so like, I was like,
oh now I got self harm and I got smoke pot,
smoked cigarettes, and I was and so like I was
just building this bad girl persona. Like I just began
like I stopped, you know, doing good in school. I
stopped singing, my art declined. I started writing really really
(18:24):
dark poetry I love to write. And my parents were like,
what is wrong with our kid? You know, like and
but when I brought that note home, when they actually
called my parents and they said they told them like, hey,
this is what Jessa is saying. And my dad set
(18:45):
me down in our living room, and I remember I
was sitting on the fireplace, hearth on the seat at
the fireplace, and he looked at this man, and he goes,
are you touching my daughter? And he goes, no, you
know she's lying, you know she's doing all this stuff.
And so he completely like was like absolutely not. And
(19:05):
my dad looked at me and he's like, why would
you Why would you say that? And then something clicked
in my brain. I was like, wait, I don't want
this guy to be homeless, like like, that's the first
thing that pops in my brain is not me, and
advocating for myself not dad, helped me. It was I
don't want this guy to be homeless. So I looked
at my dad and out of my mouth, I said,
I made it all up. I'm sorry, it's not true.
(19:25):
It's not true, Dad, I'm sorry. I made it all up.
And so, of course that continued to build up the
bad reputation of me being the bad kid.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Did it embolden this man to continue with the behavior?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, he continued the behavior, and he was like, don't
try to pull that again. I'll take away your cigarettes.
You know, like he just he was just constantly doing this.
He was doing this for about a year.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You lived in that house with that going on for
one year NonStop. Yeah. Meanwhile, you're perpetually falling down a
spiral of just dark, dark dark. I'm so sorry that
(20:17):
the uh, the depth of that, the reality is although
at that time I know you felt like you were
all alone in the world. The truth is which we'll
get to. Unfortunately, this is not that uncommon a story
and our society is it. I'm sorry, it's okay. I'm
(20:39):
so sorry that you're crying. I just it's very brave
of you to share this. People need to hear it,
people need to understand that there's people like this all
over the all over the country, kids dealing with this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It's fine, and I promise is good, dude. I'm good.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, you sure.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah. I can't share my story without crying. It's impossible.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I can't. I can't. I get it. It's hard for
me to hear without crying. And now a few messages
from our general sponsors. But first, I hope you'll subscribe
to the podcast so that you can get the newest
episodes in your library every week. And also please consider
(21:28):
signing up to join the Army at Normalfolks dot us
because together we can improve this country. And you'll also
receive weekly email updates about the Army that you can
even read. Guys, We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
But yeah, I live like that for about a year.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And so now you're sixteen. Yep.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So no, I'm sixteen. And I ended up dropping out
of high school. And when I dropped out of high school,
my parents were like, well, you don't have to get
your GED. And because I had just completely threw my
academics out the window, like I had like the education
of a sixth grader like I or a ninth grader
(22:18):
or whatever, I just you know, I just didn't I
couldn't even pass the GED. And I took it multiple times.
I tried to get a job busting tables as a waitress,
and like just everything was just dead end. And they
were like, if you've got to get a job, well,
I can't get a job with out of high school diploma.
(22:39):
I can't pass the GED. So I'm like, dang, dude,
like I'm stuck. And I ended up getting in a
really bad fight with my dad and he found cigarettes
in my room and money had gone missing in the
house and he thought that I had taken it, and
and like I swear to this damn thirty eight years old,
I never took that money. And he was like, you
(23:02):
gotta get out. He's like, I'm tired of all this craziness.
I'm tired of this, this and this. Get out. And
so I was like fine, and so I left and
I actually moved in with my memal, who is still
alive today.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Grandmother.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yes, my Memal is my grandma. She's my freaking hero.
But I'll get to that today too. But I moved
in with my Memal for a few months, and my
dad was like, I think you might be a little
too much for your grandma to live in her house,
so why don't you come back. We'll try this again.
(23:39):
So at sixteen, I came back, and then I just
kept getting in fights. I tried to get that ged again.
I couldn't get any kind of stable job, and I
started flipping through these papers called The Creative Loafing in Atlanta.
It's an art magazine and I'm into art and music,
so I'm looking for jobs and there was a want
(24:01):
ad in there and it said, uh, there was a
customer service representative job open with free room and board.
And I was like, I'm going to show the world
that I can get a job. I'll have my own
place before my high school class, even graduates, and so
I called this phone number and a lady answers and
(24:22):
I tell her. I was like, man, I'm not getting
I'm not getting along with my folks here. I was like,
I know, I'm young. I was like, but you know,
I'm out of school. I'm trying to get my high
school diploma. And I was like, I just need a job,
and she's like, oh, we always have openings, and I
was like cool. I was like, I can work a telephone,
you know, I can do that and I'll have my
own apartment. Like cool, this works. And I was like, well,
(24:46):
let me let me think about it. And so it
took me a couple of months, gotten another really bad
fight with my dad. He finally had had enough of
me and he was like get out. He's like I'm done.
So I was like fine, and I left. I stayed
with a friend from my church one night, and I
thought I hadn't made because like, he worked at this
(25:07):
studio in Atlanta music studio and I hung out with
him and the next day he's like he throws twenty
dollars on the coffee table and he's like, here's some
gas money. You can't live here, and I was like, what,
you know, where am I going to go? Because I
didn't want to be a burden on my grandmother, I
(25:27):
couldn't go home.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So this dude still at home, the abuser.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, he was still in the house.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Oh forgot's sake.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
He ended up leaving, but he was still in the
house when I was going through this. So I I
called the ad. I called that in the paper and
I was like, hey, I got twenty dollars to my name.
And I remember driving to the Chick fil A off
of Druid Hills in Atlanta and I got myself a
chicken biscuit, put the rest of it in my gas tank,
(25:59):
bought a packast cigarettes. I had someone go in and
buy me a pack of cigarettes, and then I drove
out to Griffin, Georgia, where I met this man at
a gas station and he was like he's standing out
there and I was like, where's your car. It's in
the shop, and He's like, the house is just right
down the road. And I was like, okay, Like I
am night. Can I cuss on here? I'm naives all right,
(26:22):
I'm a teenager, you know, And I'm like, I don't
know what's going on, and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Like, and you're traumaized.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, And I got trauma and I don't know where
to go, and I just felt completely helpless. So I
go to this house and I walk in and it's
pretty empty except for there was two other young ladies
in the house and I hear the door shut behind me,
and I'm like, this doesn't feel right. I was like,
something's not right here, and I remember just feeling completely cold.
(26:52):
And I turned around and he looked at me, and
he was very direct with his intentions and.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Which were what.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
He was like, you're gonna do this, this and this?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
What is this? This and this?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You're basically sex work. He was like, you're going to
go on these calls with this girl and her name,
we'll just call her for radio sake, we'll call her Tiffany.
You're going to go on these calls with Tiffany, and
you're going to service and you're going to do this,
this and this. Yeah. I just I don't want to, Okay,
(27:29):
I'm sure. Yeah, I'm like I don't think.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So. And I was like, you're going to go on
calls and you're going to see.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
John's Yeah, I'm going to see John's.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
What you're asked to sexually.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, and and the sexual abuse from the man that
was living in our house. There was never intercourse. It
was just you know, touching, a molestation and things like that.
And so when I met my trafficer, I was a virgin.
So my first call, I remember walking down the hall
the hotel and I remember going in there with Tiffany
(28:06):
and I was like, I don't know what to do,
and I was I was shaking. I was like, I
don't what's on the other side of that door, you know.
I like, I had no idea. And she's like, if
you tell Cy, which was what my trafficker called himself,
you tell him that I did this, we're both gonna
be in a lot of trouble. And so she took
my first call for me. She's like, I will not
(28:28):
do this again. You have to do this or you
know this and this will happen. And so I was
like terrified. And so she took my call for me
made three hundred bucks within like an hour, and I
was like, I actually thought that I got to keep
that money, Like I actually thought that money would in
my pockets. She handed me the money and I was
(28:49):
supposed to hand it over to Cy and I actually
call him Ka on the internet. But I handed or
I had the money in my pocket and he's like,
where's the money and I was like, I have it.
I was like I did it, you know, and I
was like, it's my job. It was my call. And
he's like, no, honey, that's not how this works. And
so I ended up having to I took the money
(29:11):
out of my pocket and I tried to give him
half of it and he's like, no, I get all
of that and he's like, I'll hold on to it
and I'll give you money at the end of the week.
And I was like, oh, okay. And so like it
was call after call after call until like, how old
are you at this point, I'm seventeen, Okay, So all
of this is ripe. Yeah, yeah, because I I didn't
(29:34):
want to be there. I didn't want to do any
of this, and so.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It was just you know, people would say, well, you're
seventeen years old, you know what you're doing. You want
to answer that, by the way, before you reach across
the table and slap the crap out of me. I'm
playing Devil's Advocate and teeing this up for you to
answer that, because some people will say, seventeen years old,
(29:58):
eighteen years old, trouble girl, You've had a car, you
could have got driven away, And they don't understand the
mental manipulation and the and the and the power that
these girls give into and the fear. Can you speak
to that?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
So people ask me this question, They say this a
lot to me. They were like, well, sixteen is age
consent or seventeen is the age of consent. And I
was like, I didn't consent to any of it. And
I did have a car and I could have left,
but I didn't have anywhere to go. And there was
so much mind God, this is such a bad word,
(30:41):
but there's so much mind furey and manipulation. And like
basically he was like, your family's not going to take
you back. That's why you're here. You know you can't.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
So you went from one manipulation and grooming in your
home to another level of manipulation and grooming yeah by
a professional rat.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah. So he's like, you have nowhere to go. I
know where your parents work, I know where you live.
He's like, you're going to work for me, You're going
to do this and so like three months in, I mean, yeah,
I could have gotten in my car and left, but like,
where was I going to go? Like I didn't have
any friends to go to. I couldn't have stayed with
any of my friends I didn't have. I didn't want
(31:24):
to be a burden on my grandmother because that's always
what was sticking in my mind, is like she's older
and she was a widow, and I was like, I
don't want to keep having to go back to her
and put more on her. And I knew I couldn't
go home because I knew I was just going to
get kicked out again. So I was like, where am
I going to go? So I stayed not because I
(31:45):
wanted to, it's because I didn't have any options.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
They're about three months in. He was like, you know,
you're not giving me any trouble. So he's like, I
want you to show me that you're loyal to me.
He's like, I'm gonna take you to this tattoo shop
down the road and we're going to tattoo you with
the same thing that Tiffany had. So I go into
this tattoo shop and I was like, I'm not even
(32:30):
old enough to get a tattoo in say of Georgia,
you have to be eighteen to get to get a
tattoo in a professional tattoo shop. And he's like the
guy the artist had a fetish or a fantasy of
getting oral sex while tattooing someone. So Tiffany gives him
(32:53):
oral sex in exchange for my tattoo. And I was
tattooed on my wrist and on my backside.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
One time, yes, at the same.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Time, at the same time. So I had this tattoo
on me, on my wrist and all my backside, and
I felt disgusting.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
And I also branded. Yeah, I mean yeah, he became property.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, people refer to it ave branding, tagging tattoos, but
usually sometimes when people hear branding, they think of burns, like.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
No, But what I'm saying is we're not going to
discuss what the tattoos are but or were. But the
point is this was more and more depth of drawing
you into a place you could get out of. And
this tattoo was, when I say, branding, marking, whatever, it
(33:50):
was further connecting you to your to trafficker. Yeah, and
the trafficker is a pimp basically, right.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, he was basically my my Well I don't I
didn't call him my pimp, but he was my trafficker.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, by me. What's the difference in a traffic growing
up pimp?
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I don't see a difference neither.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Okay, So tattoos.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I get tattooed, and I felt gross with this on
my body and immediately yeah, well, I mean of course
I felt immediately. I I'm in a situation that I
don't want to be in. I'm with a group of
people that I don't want to be around. I'm doing
things that I don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Is the drug involved?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
No, I did not use any drugs when I was
I mean, I said from No. He was pretty particular
about us not using any type of drugs. Now, there
were times that like we would have like uppers, not
like like illegal drug, but like something to yeah, like
no dose or whatever. And then we had things like
then we were allowed to smoke pot and but that
(35:01):
was it, and then he was very particular about what
kind of clients that we saw. It was just it
was literally a nightmare. And I remember how.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Many girls I know you, and there was Tiffany.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
There was me, Tiffany and another girl that were in
this house together.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Did he quote recruit them the same way that you
got recruited?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Tiffany was a bottom. A bottom, A bottom is his
main girl, and so she's the one that recruited me,
and then I'm assuming the other girl was recruited by
her as well.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
So when you called up this ad, she's the one
that answered, thinking you're going to get a job. You
were talking to Tiffany, yes, and they're completely lying to you,
and then they show you show up and it's everybody's
in on it, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, everybody was in on it. There was a bunch
of people in this house, or all three of us
were in this house. And then the trafficker's nephew was
living upstairs in the apartment taking college classes, which was
really weird because he was not on any of it.
He was just separate from everything, which I really don't
talk about my story because it's irrelevant to my story, but.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
It's still it was just a function.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, it was very odd.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah did you ever were you ever there when they
tried to recruit another girl.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I never saw them trying to recruit another girl. I
was only with with with Cipher six months. The last
night that I was with him, I was on a
call and I was in a hotel room and it
was across the street from a strip club, and I
was staying in this hotel and I remember looking out
the window and thinking, I bet I would be so
(36:43):
much safer in there than I am in here in
the strip club. Yeah. Which there's kind of a funny
story that ties into one of my best friends that
I now work with anti trafficking with because she was
actually leaving that exact club at the same time that
I was trying to get out of my tell room.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So but I remember that night. I looked at Si
and I was like, I don't want to do this
anymore and I'm not going to And he was like,
come again, and I was like, I'm not doing this
anymore and I'm not going to. I was like, I
want to go home. I was like, I'm seventeen. I
don't want to be here. I want to go home.
No one's going to take you back, no one's gonna
(37:23):
no one's ever gonna want to be with you. You're damaged goods.
No one's going to love you, No one's gonna want
to No one's gonna want to be with your ass,
you know, like all kinds of things like that, just
completely stripping away every every bit of dignity, every bit
of my self esteem, the things that would come out
of his mouth, like he thought it was always funny,
and it wasn't. It was very damaging.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
And I just remember, the farther he breaks you down,
and the less self esteem and dignity you have, the
more you become this puppet, yeah, and the more dependent
upon him you are in a weird sense.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
And he was like, the guys that we know, the
guys that are calling they like you because you're younger.
The guys that we call it, they like you because
you know, you're petite. They like you because of all
this other stuff. And I was like, He's like, you're
making me good money. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm
making you good money, but why are we going to Applebee's?
You know, Like, if I'm making you good money, why
are we you know, why why are you making me
(38:21):
like do this that? You know, Like it's just it
made no sense. And I never saw a dime of
any of them.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I was gonna did he ever pay you at the
end of the week.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
No, I never got paid for one dollar. No, I
never got I never had any money.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
So you were working for a roof and some food.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yep, not even good food. No offense to Applebee's, but
it wasn't even good food.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Like, I know this is not commonal but.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I know, I'm sure it's It's the way I'm dealing.
That's the way I deal with trauma sometimes is I'm
I crack a joke and I know it's not a
funny matter, but I'm trying. I'm trying to get it
pushed through this.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I completely get it. So this night you say you're out,
and he.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, he got very angry with me.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
And did you ever feel physically threatened?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
He was never physically violent with us until the night
I told him I wanted to leave. And the night
that I told say that I wanted to leave, I
was like, I want to get my things and leave.
And I was like, I'm seventeen, I want to go home.
And that's what he was telling me, that no one
(39:32):
ever will love me and I was worthless, no good
and all this kind of stuff, and he was like,
you know what, go in the house. And get your
shit out. And I was like, WHOA, that was easy,
you know, Like I was like whow. I felt like
this big relief. So I remember walking onto the steps
to go get my things, and all I had was
(39:54):
like a book bag, a couple pieces of jewelry, and
my keys to my car that he used, and it
was actually the car that my grandmother gave me. And
I hear footsteps come behind me, and he came really fast,
and I remember turning around and he was coming after me,
(40:15):
and I remember I froze and I fell to the floor,
and then he took me by my hair and dragged
me up exactly twelve flights of step or twelve stairs.
I remember because I counted them. So I would always
say that I was I'm batite in my height, but
he would saying I was overweight, and so he would
make me walk up and down those steps every day
(40:36):
for exercise because he said that he didn't want any
fat girls working for him. So he grabbed me by
my hair, and I remember trying to stay present, and
I counted each step up to twelve and then so
I tried to take my life that night, and I
what he tried to end my life, how he pulled
(41:00):
a knife on me, pulled out a trash bag, said
he was gonna cut my tongue so I wouldn't so
I could never speak or say anything about him. But
I remember him pulling open this big trash bag saying
that he was gonna stuff my body in it. And
I remember staring at the door to his bedroom that
(41:25):
I was in with him, and I was screaming, and
he was like, if you don't shut up, I'm gonna
cut your tongue out. And I remember like this is
gonna sound so stupid to some people, but to me,
I will never forget it. I remember like picturing my
dad coming in there in a superhero cape. You're getting
me out of there, and nobody came and I nobody
(41:51):
came and got me, and I just thought I fought
like hell. And I started telling him. I was like,
I'll do anything, don't kill me.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
And he.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
So he made me give him oral sex, and he
was like, they're gonna learn not with me, and I
was like, I promise, I'll behave I'll be good. I'm sorry,
I love you, I I'll be loyal, I won't fight
you anymore. Just don't kill me, and he was like,
(42:27):
everything kind of calmed down after a couple hours, and uh,
and he.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Was like.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I ended up falling asleep and he was sleeping. He
slept and he had his arm over me, and I remember,
like I did. I couldn't sleep that well, but I
was trying to go to sleep, and I remember the
next morning, I tried to move and I felt him
bear down on me, and he goes, where do you
think you're going? And I was like, I just need
(42:57):
to go to the bathroom, and he goes, if he
think about leaving, I'm going to put two in the
back of your head. And I was like, I'm not
going to leave. I love you, I'm loyal. I promised
you last night that I won't leave. And I said,
I'm just gonna go pee and I'll be right back.
And I was like, might smoak a cigarette, that's it.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And he was like, all right, wow, y'all, that's just
a situation. I don't think many of us can ever
imagine even being in. And we'll hear what happened next
in Part two. So that concludes Part one of my
conversation with Jessica Lamb, and Part two is now available,
(43:40):
which I promise you do not want to miss and
the Redemption part of this story is coming soon. Guys,
I promise I'll see you in part two.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.