April 30, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, Delano Squires discusses his unconventional journey to becoming a research fellow at Heritage, focusing on the importance of marriage and family in the black community. He explores the cultural shifts that have led to a decline in the perception of marriage, the impact of welfare and feminism, and the need for a rebranding of marriage for future generations. Delano emphasizes the importance of investing in personal relationships over political obsessions and offers advice for the younger generation on valuing family and marriage. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Wednesday & Friday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
This week, some guy posted a before and after picture
of himself after a serious regimen of working out. A
different guy than posted a poll asking people if they
thought he looked better before or after. The results were
(00:22):
somewhat surprising. Forty three percent of men thought he looked
better after, while only seven percent of women responders thought
the same. Now, that's not a perfect one hundred because
it wasn't one hundred percent of women or.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Men who responded.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Twenty four percent of men thought he looked better before,
and seven percent of women thought he looked better after.
A third guy then posted saying why do women lie
about this?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Like?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
What is the actual reason?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Of course, the women weren't lying. In the first picture,
the man is mostly fit already. He isn't cut, but
he's not fat or anything like that. In the second picture,
he's in tight little shorts and he's very cut up.
I mean a twelve pack, not a six pack. The
responses from women were that the second picture is nice,
(01:14):
but it's a little much. Some women said he seemed
more feminine in the second picture. Some women said his
little shorts coded as gay to them. Other women said
the second picture looked like a guy who would spend
all his time talking about weightlifting and macros.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'm sure all of that is true, but the real
thing is that we.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Can't help what we find attractive, and it won't always
be what people think. I talk on here a lot
about what is wrong with online dating, the swiping culture,
but I think one of the things is that people
think they're supposed to swipe on the second guy.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
In the picture and not the first.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And while women know that they find the first picture
more attractive, I think they're just more likely to pursue
the second because he's what they're supposed to want.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Of course, this is true for men too.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I know lots of men who have fallen in love
in real life with women they wouldn't have swiped yess
on the apps. The what you're supposed to want is
in effect when you're choosing from an online catalog in
a way that it just isn't when you fall in
love with your coworker or with your neighbor. If you're
having trouble meeting someone, consider whether you're choosing someone that
(02:30):
you think.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You're supposed to choose, or if.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You're choosing someone who actually attracts you. And yes, of course,
get off the apps and try to do all that
in real life. Thanks for listening. Coming up next and
interview with Delano Squires. Join us after the break. Hi,
and welcome back to the Carol Markovich Show on iHeartRadio.
(02:54):
My guest today is Delano Squires. Delano is a research
fellow and Life Religion and Family at Heritage and a
contributor at Blaze.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So nice to have you on, Delano. How are you.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I'm doing well, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So how did you get into this world?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What does somebody need to do in order to end
up a research fellow and Life, Religion and Family.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So my path is non conventional, to say the least.
Prior to coming to Heritage, I actually worked for almost
fifteen years in local government in Washington, d C. So
I was always I did community work, mainly in low
income neighborhoods. The last year was in the Office of
Gun Violence Prevention. But I've been writing about issues related
to marriage and family and culture.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
For well over a decade.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I first started writing for a site called Black and
Married with Kids at a time while I was still single.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I was only single writer. And then I've written for
The Root and The Grio, which are.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Publications geared, you know, targeting an African American audience, as
well as for the Federalists. And now I have a
weekly column that I writed The Blaze. So it was
a combination of that work and then you know, some
of my public commentary that put me on the radar
for the Heritage Foundation. And when I left DC government,
(04:11):
or when I was pushed out of DC government, I
was able to make a smooth transition over here and
continue to write about, you know, some of the issues
that I think are the most important ones in our society.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Why were you pushed out of DC government?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Well, I say pushed out tongue in cheek.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
It was, you know, sort of a I got caught
in a bureaucratic Bermuda triangle. I was in detail to
one agency and then my home agency didn't have funding
for my position, so they let me go, you know,
a little bit earlier than I thought they would.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But I'm thankful, Yeah, because.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
As someone who struggled to find a job coming out
of college, and it took me about two and a
half years to really get on a career track. I
spent one day less than one day unemployed between when
I was let go at DC government and ended up
coming over the heritage so amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So how does a single guy get into writing about marriage?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So? I grew up in New York. Where in New
York and Queens.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I grew up in Queen's a part of Queens.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Okay, I'm from Brooklyn. My husband's from Queens, you know. Ok,
I have to get the details.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah, So I grew up in New York and spent
a ton of time in Brooklyn, mainly East Flatbush, you know,
with my friends and you know where we went to church,
and we would always talk about why our lives look
so much different than some of the kids we went
to school with. And we came to the conclusions, like,
our parents are married, our family's intact, our dads are present,
(05:43):
and not just each of us individually in our homes,
but just the men we went to church with, the
ones who poured into us, the ones who kept us
out of trouble. So as I got older, even though
I wasn't married, I wanted to write about the importance
of marriage, particularly in the black community, because even by
that time, some of the statistics that people here, you know,
(06:03):
seventy percent out of wedlock birth rate and things of
that nature were already a reality. So I wrote about
it because I thought it was important, and not just
from a policy perspective, but also from a cultural perspective, right,
the importance of marriage and family and fathers. And then
from there they'll just open up other opportunities for me.
(06:24):
So this has always been a passion of mine, and
now I get to do research and write about these
issues more generally speaking, because many of the issues that
social scientists have talked about with the black family since
the nineteen sixties are prevalent among all American families today.
So yeah, so that's how I got started. And as
(06:45):
I said, there's been a long and winding path, but
I'm certainly glad to be where I am today.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So how are your pieces received?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
And, like Root or the Grio, at the time, they
were well received. Funny last piece I wrote for the
Route was twenty sixteen, and it was I was somewhat
critical of how the Republican Party did outreach to black voters.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
There was.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
A black she went by GOP Black Chick, a woman
named Crystal Wright who was really big on the scene
prior to sort of Candice Owens ascension on the right.
And she went on Fox and Friends on February first,
It's twenty sixteen, so first day of Black History, and
(07:35):
she said she said that black voters are political dummies
who were basically slaves on the Democrat crap plantation. It
was that type of talk, and I said, this is
not You don't win voters over by insulting their intelligence,
so things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
You're the worst to vote for us, right.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So I think those pieces were well received.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I wrote one for Father's Day one year about the
lessons I learned from my dad.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I think those things were well received.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
But I'll say this, I saw both the Root and
the Grill drift to the left over the years, and
I think part of that may be new management, you know,
just a different cultural landscape, to the point where when
I wrote a piece, for instance, called.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Arguing that we need a Black Lives Matter.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Movement that was published in Newsweek, But I pitched that
to both the Root and the Grillo prior, and neither
of them even responded to the pitch from Heritage. So
it's one of those things where certain issues I don't
think those sites are interested in covering, so I don't
think i'd be able to write on some of the
(08:48):
same things today. And part of that is just a
shift in the cultural landscape.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
What do you think people misunderstand about the marriage problem,
you know, in the black community, but also in other communities.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Now as well.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I think the first thing people misunderstand is that this
is mainly a matter of economics, like, oh, people nowadays
don't have enough money to get married. I don't think
that's it at all.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
You don't think that's it.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, we did to challenge that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I was gonna say, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I hear that point of view a lot, but I
don't think it's an economics issue either.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Go ahead, Yeah, sorry, obviously.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I believe particularly you know, when it comes to men,
like a man has to have a steady job, somewhere
to lay his head, and hopefully a stable mode of transportation.
If you're in New York, you can get away from
you don't need that. You have some money on you
on your metro card, and you can.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Get around the city. But what you see, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I originally wrote an op ed on the sixtieth Anniversity
of the moynhan Report, you know, which touched on issues
of the black family. So at the point where Danian
Patrick moynihan felt, Okay, the state of the Black family is,
it's such that I should write about this. Right, the
out of wedlock birth rate for Black women was about
(10:03):
twenty five percent, so that meant three and four Black
children were still born.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
To married parents.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
That was at a time where the black poverty rate
was about forty percent. And what you've seen is that
the poverty rate has basically been cut in half, but
the out of wedlock birth rate has almost tripled. And
the graph looks the same for all Americans. Right, So
people have more have more material resources, more material wealth
than they did in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But out of wedlock births.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Nationally that the non matter of birth rate nationally is
about forty percent. So I don't think it's an issue
primarily of resources, which is one of the reasons why
you see couples often today who have the baby first
and then decide whether they want to get married later.
I think the biggest issue is that marriage is no
(10:53):
longer seen as valuable, desirable, accessible, or indispensable when it
comes to form a family, and it was seen that
way in previous generations, which is why people got married
earlier and why they tended to stay married longer. Obviously,
you know, with the issues of divorce, there have been
(11:14):
many people obviously we've gotten divorced, particularly no fault divorce
became a thing. But I also know several people, myself included,
who can say, yeah, my parents have been married, you know,
thirty five, forty forty five, fifty years. My concern is
that my generation may be the last one to be
(11:35):
able to say that if we continue on the trajectory
we're on.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So what happened what made marriage undesirable? Was there like
a moment or was it just a slide?
Speaker 4 (11:48):
So I go back to the nineteen sixties, and I
know it's always hard to talk about a period of
time where you weren't around, because you can get certain
things from statistics, but you have to be in a
place to really get mood, right.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I could blame the hippies though I wasn't there, but
I could tell.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
So what I would say is this, and I see
this again. First, I think the Black family was the
canary in the coal mine. In the nineteen sixties, you
have two movements rising. At the same time. You have
the rise of the welfare state, right, so big government liberalism,
where you know, the spending on particularly for low income
(12:27):
moms with children, Yeah, explodes. Between nineteen sixty five and
nineteen eighty five. People talk about the men in the
House rule that said that a woman on welfare could
not receive it if there was a man in the house,
or there's an incentive for men not to be in
the home. So you have big government liberalism rising, that's policy.
At the same time you have second wave feminism rising.
(12:50):
Now I'd argue big government displaces men, and I would
say that second wave feminism deceived women. This was the
deception that femininity is weak, masculinity is toxic, marriage is oppressive,
the home is a prison, and children are burden.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
So what you get when you marry those two things,
no pun attended, is you get, in some respects, a
parallel family structure where husband is displaced and uncle Sam
in the form of the federal government assumes the role
of husband and father to millions of poor women and
their children. And this doesn't mean that every single mom
(13:34):
is on welfare. I'm not making an argument. I'm saying
what we created was a new family structure that made
it possible for a man to abandon his financial responsibilities
to his family and for a woman to feel as
if she was liberated quote unquote from the grip of
the patriarchy while signing herself up to be married.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
To the government.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
And once you put that in motion as a cultural norm, right,
and you see it replicated, and you are in communities
where there are no men in the home raising kids
with their wives. Now what you get is a new
norm that can replicate itself without sort of a continued
external push. And I think that parallel family structure is
(14:25):
what you've seen sort of spread throughout the culture generally speaking.
So now again, even if you are upwardly mobile six
figure women, right, you don't you, but you still have
come around in a culture that says a man in
the home as my husband is not necessary. I can
(14:46):
do it by myself if you're on a higher you know,
sort of economic rung. And then if you're on the
lower one, you can say I can do it with
myself with help from the government. So that's what I
would say has been the dominant culture for the better
part of about sixty years, that men are no longer necessary.
Men in marriage, are no longer necessary when it comes
(15:08):
to forming a family.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So what's interesting about that?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Though? Right, you talk about your parents being married for
forty plus years. I grew up in Flatbush, not far
away from the you know where you were talking about it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Ease Flatbush.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It was always a point of pride when your parents
were married, and it was a point of pride for
the kids, and it was a point of pride for
the parents. How come, even though that's like something that
people have so much, you know, just take so much
pride in, why hasn't that kind of spread to the culture.
(15:42):
Why don't we think of that as something to aspire to,
despite the fact that the people who are in it
are so happy to be in it.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
I think one reason is because over the course of decades,
no one wants to feel as if they're stigmatized someone else.
And one of the things, and I said this sometimes
to people on the right, there's no way to create
and uphold an ideal without policing either the behavior or
(16:14):
the people that transgress that idea on the back end, right.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Like you can't say this is bad. You know, but
you know single mom is a bad thing to do,
but because you know it offends a lot of people.
But but you're also you want to get to the
place where people do it less.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So it's it's a tough dance, right, So.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So you have to choose. You have to choose one.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
You either have to accept new new norms and say, well,
these are equally good, or you can say this is
the ideal and even gently sort of police it on
the on the on on the back end, I think
people don't mind policing. The police function right in terms
of social stigma when it is pointed at men who
(16:58):
fail to fulfill their responsibilities.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So easier, it's much easier, guy's a deadbeat dad.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
But the moment, culturally speaking, we feel as if we
are criticizing in any way, shape or form what women
do in terms of relationships single motherhood, particularly if it's
single motherhood by choice, then people, I think, get a
lot less comfortable. They say, oh, we don't want to stigmatize.
We don't want people to feel bad, We don't want
(17:25):
those children to feel stigmatized. Right, And I guess.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
If you don't, you don't want them to be stigmatized. Right,
you might have them in your family or among your friends.
You don't want them to feel bad, but you also
don't want to see it replicate itself correct along the
larger culture.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Correct correct Now.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I give this example because I think there are ways
to handle this in the culture. And the best example
is in schools.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
You go to any school, particularly in a big school
district New York, Philadelphia, DC, and you're going to see
college pushed from the time kids into kindergarten. You'll see
the little banner of Duke and Harvard and Yale and Stanford,
and you will hear administrators saying, we believe every child
should go to college. And they say that even though
(18:10):
many of the children in these schools have parents who
did not go to college. But nobody feels as if
we're saying, oh, you're a bad person if you don't
even go to college, because we recognize that, generally speaking,
parents want better for the kids than what they've had
for themselves, and people believe that college net net is
a positive good and an ideal that children should strive for.
(18:32):
And my argument is that we can do something similar
with the ideal of putting marriage before carriage. Now, if
some people say I don't want to get married at all,
I don't want kids, that's fine, that's their preference. But
when it comes to forming a family, particularly with children
are involved, I believe that we should prioritize the needs
(18:54):
and rights of children over the desires of adults.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And the right that I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Is every child's right to the affection, protection, correction, and
direction of the man and woman who created them, and
that I believe that right is best exercised in a
loving and low conflict home with a married mom and dad.
So I think there's ways to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
But I think all.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Photology example is a very good one, right, and we
see it.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
And the thing is, I would argue that the difference
between let's say, getting a college degree and not getting one,
particularly if you're in the trades, is vastly It's a smaller,
sort of marginal difference than getting married before you have
kids and sort of choosing to let's say, as a man,
(19:41):
let's say I choose to have five kids by four women,
none of whom I live with. That's a very big difference, right,
Five by one is different than five by five, if
I could put it that way, Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
My nine year old says, you want eighteen kids, and
I say, as long as you're all having them all
with the same woman, I don't care whatever you want,
as long as there's only one baby Mama.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Come Thanksgiving, you know, there we go.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. So what do you
worry about?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
That's a good question.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I'm not particularly prone to worry. But if I am
concerned about the state of the American family, and the
reason why is because I believe that many of the
issues that vex policymakers, whether in the schoolhouse, the courthouse,
or the jail house, all starting home. So I'm concerned
(20:36):
that we are making it more difficult and we've lost
our way in terms of the natural order of things.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Right, you and I we grew up going to school.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
You hear this on the school yard, right, Chris and
Christine are sitting in the tree, KI s S I
n G.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
First comes love, then comes marriage.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
To bring that song back.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Right, that comes baby in the baby carriage.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I'm concerned because the new script is not working, and
that new script is Chris and Christina are staring at
their screens t e XTI G. First comes sex, then
comes baby, then comes marriage. But that's a big maybe.
So I'm worried that that's becoming more and more normal.
(21:23):
And I'm concerned because I don't think as a society
we've really thought long term about what that means, not
just on a family basis, not just on a community basis,
not just on a city on a city level, but
on a national level and really a civilizational level.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
What advice would you give a sixteen year.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Old Dolato.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
M Listen to your parents.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Their wisdom is underrated. And just because you know a
few things doesn't mean you know everything. And you know
the people that God has given you and put around you,
the adults that have wisdom and life experiences tell you
(22:11):
the things that they tell you because they love you,
not because they want to keep you from having fun.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
They're not trying to get in your way.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Do you get back to Queens.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
A lot every once in a while, actually going up
soon for you know, family function. So I try to
see my parents as much as I can, and they
come come down to the DC area and spend time
and actually, you know, we were talking about family, one
of the things that people don't realize. Let's say I
get married at thirty seven, I have my first kid
(22:41):
at forty, and I have a son. He does the
same thing. Married at thirty seven, first kid at forty. Yeah,
I become a first time granddad at eighty years old.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Right, it's tough.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
So the ways in which we've delayed marriage and having
family even have an effect on potential grandparents because mom
and dad they want some they want some grand babies.
So as soon as you get married, they start to
look and they say, look, you know, hey, so yeah,
so I try to see him as often as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
How do you stress that to your you know, to
the next generation. How do you say to them, do
this sooner than I did it?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
It's I had, you.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Know, But I also if I had, if I had
gotten married earlier than I did, I would have married
the wrong person. You know.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It's a tough. It's a tough.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, I got married at thirty one. I had my
kids in my thirties. I'm fine with my kids doing that. Obviously,
if they meet the right person earlier, I hope they
don't wait. But if they don't, you know, what are
you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
It's hard. I'm similar. I got married at thirty, my
wife was twenty nine. But now looking back on it,
I'm one of the younger people I know.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right, Yeah, now we're the babies, babies and babies. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I honestly think that marriage as an institution needs a rebrand,
and I think part of that rebrand is not just
talking about the sequence. So as much as I love
the success sequence, it's also about talking about the timing
and letting young people know you don't have to put
off this major decision until you have every single thing
(24:16):
in your life exactly where you want it, so letting
them know that as possible to do it earlier than
most people think, Like my parents got married, I think
at twenty four and twenty one something like that, which
was normal back then, that was actually right on target.
And right now, the median age and first marriage is
thirty one and twenty nine, and there's no reason to expect,
(24:37):
just giving our current cultural trends, that it won't in
another twenty years be up to I don't know, thirty
seven and thirty five or close to forty at all
if at all? Right, So, I think there are ways
to do it some schools. There's some colleges where that
ring by ring by Spring or mrs degree culture is
(25:00):
still there. But I think it's something that needs to
be discussed and sort of just raising awareness and to say, hey,
this is this is the most important decision you're going
to make with your life, and marriage and family are
going to give you a level of personal fulfillment that
you can't get anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I really think you're the guy to do the rebrand. Honestly,
I think I think you really You're really onto a
lot of things here. And I've had, you know, I've
obviously had the conversation about marriage in a lot of
different ways. I just think you bring up some really
interesting arguments and I appreciate that I nominate you to
do the marriage rebrand across the country.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I appreciate that, so.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And us here with your best tip for my listeners
on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Hmm, that's a good one. I would say this.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I would say to invest your energy and your resources
and the people who are closest to you, the people
who matter the most. I'd say divest from political obsession
and invest in family and friends. Because people who have
strong faith commitments, who have a strong you know, sort
(26:12):
of family ties, and who have personally fulfilling you know,
friendships and relationships. In my experience, and I think the
day to bear this out, those are the people that
tend to be most content and happy with their lives.
So for me, you know, my wife and I we're
part of a really great local church where we do
life together with other couples, my best friends growing up.
(26:35):
You know, we played on the same church team in Brooklyn.
We're still best friends to this day. We talk every
day on WhatsApp. And you know, my family and other
you know, church family are people who I lean on,
you know, when times get difficult.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
So I would say.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
To buck the cultural trend of seeing partisan power as
the end all be all, yeah, and get back to
doing life with real life people.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I love that. Here is Dolano Squires. Thank you so
much for coming on, Delano. It's been an amazing conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
This week, some guy posted a before and after picture
of himself after a serious regimen of working out. A
different guy than posted a poll asking people if they
thought he looked better before or after. The results were
(00:22):
somewhat surprising. Forty three percent of men thought he looked
better after, while only seven percent of women responders thought
the same. Now, that's not a perfect one hundred because
it wasn't one hundred percent of women or.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Men who responded.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Twenty four percent of men thought he looked better before,
and seven percent of women thought he looked better after.
A third guy then posted saying why do women lie
about this?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Like?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
What is the actual reason?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Of course, the women weren't lying. In the first picture,
the man is mostly fit already. He isn't cut, but
he's not fat or anything like that. In the second picture,
he's in tight little shorts and he's very cut up.
I mean a twelve pack, not a six pack. The
responses from women were that the second picture is nice,
(01:14):
but it's a little much. Some women said he seemed
more feminine in the second picture. Some women said his
little shorts coded as gay to them. Other women said
the second picture looked like a guy who would spend
all his time talking about weightlifting and macros.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'm sure all of that is true, but the real
thing is that we.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Can't help what we find attractive, and it won't always
be what people think. I talk on here a lot
about what is wrong with online dating, the swiping culture,
but I think one of the things is that people
think they're supposed to swipe on the second guy.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
In the picture and not the first.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And while women know that they find the first picture
more attractive, I think they're just more likely to pursue
the second because he's what they're supposed to want.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Of course, this is true for men too.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I know lots of men who have fallen in love
in real life with women they wouldn't have swiped yess
on the apps. The what you're supposed to want is
in effect when you're choosing from an online catalog in
a way that it just isn't when you fall in
love with your coworker or with your neighbor. If you're
having trouble meeting someone, consider whether you're choosing someone that
(02:30):
you think.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
You're supposed to choose, or if.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You're choosing someone who actually attracts you. And yes, of course,
get off the apps and try to do all that
in real life. Thanks for listening. Coming up next and
interview with Delano Squires. Join us after the break. Hi,
and welcome back to the Carol Markovich Show on iHeartRadio.
(02:54):
My guest today is Delano Squires. Delano is a research
fellow and Life Religion and Family at Heritage and a
contributor at Blaze.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So nice to have you on, Delano. How are you.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I'm doing well, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So how did you get into this world?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What does somebody need to do in order to end
up a research fellow and Life, Religion and Family.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So my path is non conventional, to say the least.
Prior to coming to Heritage, I actually worked for almost
fifteen years in local government in Washington, d C. So
I was always I did community work, mainly in low
income neighborhoods. The last year was in the Office of
Gun Violence Prevention. But I've been writing about issues related
to marriage and family and culture.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
For well over a decade.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I first started writing for a site called Black and
Married with Kids at a time while I was still single.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I was only single writer. And then I've written for
The Root and The Grio, which are.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Publications geared, you know, targeting an African American audience, as
well as for the Federalists. And now I have a
weekly column that I writed The Blaze. So it was
a combination of that work and then you know, some
of my public commentary that put me on the radar
for the Heritage Foundation. And when I left DC government,
(04:11):
or when I was pushed out of DC government, I
was able to make a smooth transition over here and
continue to write about, you know, some of the issues
that I think are the most important ones in our society.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Why were you pushed out of DC government?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Well, I say pushed out tongue in cheek.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
It was, you know, sort of a I got caught
in a bureaucratic Bermuda triangle. I was in detail to
one agency and then my home agency didn't have funding
for my position, so they let me go, you know,
a little bit earlier than I thought they would.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But I'm thankful, Yeah, because.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
As someone who struggled to find a job coming out
of college, and it took me about two and a
half years to really get on a career track. I
spent one day less than one day unemployed between when
I was let go at DC government and ended up
coming over the heritage so amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So how does a single guy get into writing about marriage?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So? I grew up in New York. Where in New
York and Queens.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I grew up in Queen's a part of Queens.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Okay, I'm from Brooklyn. My husband's from Queens, you know. Ok,
I have to get the details.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah, So I grew up in New York and spent
a ton of time in Brooklyn, mainly East Flatbush, you know,
with my friends and you know where we went to church,
and we would always talk about why our lives look
so much different than some of the kids we went
to school with. And we came to the conclusions, like,
our parents are married, our family's intact, our dads are present,
(05:43):
and not just each of us individually in our homes,
but just the men we went to church with, the
ones who poured into us, the ones who kept us
out of trouble. So as I got older, even though
I wasn't married, I wanted to write about the importance
of marriage, particularly in the black community, because even by
that time, some of the statistics that people here, you know,
(06:03):
seventy percent out of wedlock birth rate and things of
that nature were already a reality. So I wrote about
it because I thought it was important, and not just
from a policy perspective, but also from a cultural perspective, right,
the importance of marriage and family and fathers. And then
from there they'll just open up other opportunities for me.
(06:24):
So this has always been a passion of mine, and
now I get to do research and write about these
issues more generally speaking, because many of the issues that
social scientists have talked about with the black family since
the nineteen sixties are prevalent among all American families today.
So yeah, so that's how I got started. And as
(06:45):
I said, there's been a long and winding path, but
I'm certainly glad to be where I am today.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So how are your pieces received?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
And, like Root or the Grio, at the time, they
were well received. Funny last piece I wrote for the
Route was twenty sixteen, and it was I was somewhat
critical of how the Republican Party did outreach to black voters.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
There was.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
A black she went by GOP Black Chick, a woman
named Crystal Wright who was really big on the scene
prior to sort of Candice Owens ascension on the right.
And she went on Fox and Friends on February first,
It's twenty sixteen, so first day of Black History, and
(07:35):
she said she said that black voters are political dummies
who were basically slaves on the Democrat crap plantation. It
was that type of talk, and I said, this is
not You don't win voters over by insulting their intelligence,
so things like that.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
You're the worst to vote for us, right.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So I think those pieces were well received.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I wrote one for Father's Day one year about the
lessons I learned from my dad.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I think those things were well received.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
But I'll say this, I saw both the Root and
the Grill drift to the left over the years, and
I think part of that may be new management, you know,
just a different cultural landscape, to the point where when
I wrote a piece, for instance, called.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Arguing that we need a Black Lives Matter.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Movement that was published in Newsweek, But I pitched that
to both the Root and the Grillo prior, and neither
of them even responded to the pitch from Heritage. So
it's one of those things where certain issues I don't
think those sites are interested in covering, so I don't
think i'd be able to write on some of the
(08:48):
same things today. And part of that is just a
shift in the cultural landscape.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
What do you think people misunderstand about the marriage problem,
you know, in the black community, but also in other communities.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Now as well.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I think the first thing people misunderstand is that this
is mainly a matter of economics, like, oh, people nowadays
don't have enough money to get married. I don't think
that's it at all.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
You don't think that's it.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, we did to challenge that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I was gonna say, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I hear that point of view a lot, but I
don't think it's an economics issue either.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Go ahead, Yeah, sorry, obviously.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I believe particularly you know, when it comes to men,
like a man has to have a steady job, somewhere
to lay his head, and hopefully a stable mode of transportation.
If you're in New York, you can get away from
you don't need that. You have some money on you
on your metro card, and you can.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Get around the city. But what you see, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I originally wrote an op ed on the sixtieth Anniversity
of the moynhan Report, you know, which touched on issues
of the black family. So at the point where Danian
Patrick moynihan felt, Okay, the state of the Black family is,
it's such that I should write about this. Right, the
out of wedlock birth rate for Black women was about
(10:03):
twenty five percent, so that meant three and four Black
children were still born.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
To married parents.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
That was at a time where the black poverty rate
was about forty percent. And what you've seen is that
the poverty rate has basically been cut in half, but
the out of wedlock birth rate has almost tripled. And
the graph looks the same for all Americans. Right, So
people have more have more material resources, more material wealth
than they did in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But out of wedlock births.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Nationally that the non matter of birth rate nationally is
about forty percent. So I don't think it's an issue
primarily of resources, which is one of the reasons why
you see couples often today who have the baby first
and then decide whether they want to get married later.
I think the biggest issue is that marriage is no
(10:53):
longer seen as valuable, desirable, accessible, or indispensable when it
comes to form a family, and it was seen that
way in previous generations, which is why people got married
earlier and why they tended to stay married longer. Obviously,
you know, with the issues of divorce, there have been
(11:14):
many people obviously we've gotten divorced, particularly no fault divorce
became a thing. But I also know several people, myself included,
who can say, yeah, my parents have been married, you know,
thirty five, forty forty five, fifty years. My concern is
that my generation may be the last one to be
(11:35):
able to say that if we continue on the trajectory
we're on.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So what happened what made marriage undesirable? Was there like
a moment or was it just a slide?
Speaker 4 (11:48):
So I go back to the nineteen sixties, and I
know it's always hard to talk about a period of
time where you weren't around, because you can get certain
things from statistics, but you have to be in a
place to really get mood, right.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I could blame the hippies though I wasn't there, but
I could tell.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
So what I would say is this, and I see
this again. First, I think the Black family was the
canary in the coal mine. In the nineteen sixties, you
have two movements rising. At the same time. You have
the rise of the welfare state, right, so big government liberalism,
where you know, the spending on particularly for low income
(12:27):
moms with children, Yeah, explodes. Between nineteen sixty five and
nineteen eighty five. People talk about the men in the
House rule that said that a woman on welfare could
not receive it if there was a man in the house,
or there's an incentive for men not to be in
the home. So you have big government liberalism rising, that's policy.
At the same time you have second wave feminism rising.
(12:50):
Now I'd argue big government displaces men, and I would
say that second wave feminism deceived women. This was the
deception that femininity is weak, masculinity is toxic, marriage is oppressive,
the home is a prison, and children are burden.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
So what you get when you marry those two things,
no pun attended, is you get, in some respects, a
parallel family structure where husband is displaced and uncle Sam
in the form of the federal government assumes the role
of husband and father to millions of poor women and
their children. And this doesn't mean that every single mom
(13:34):
is on welfare. I'm not making an argument. I'm saying
what we created was a new family structure that made
it possible for a man to abandon his financial responsibilities
to his family and for a woman to feel as
if she was liberated quote unquote from the grip of
the patriarchy while signing herself up to be married.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
To the government.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
And once you put that in motion as a cultural norm, right,
and you see it replicated, and you are in communities
where there are no men in the home raising kids
with their wives. Now what you get is a new
norm that can replicate itself without sort of a continued
external push. And I think that parallel family structure is
(14:25):
what you've seen sort of spread throughout the culture generally speaking.
So now again, even if you are upwardly mobile six
figure women, right, you don't you, but you still have
come around in a culture that says a man in
the home as my husband is not necessary. I can
(14:46):
do it by myself if you're on a higher you know,
sort of economic rung. And then if you're on the
lower one, you can say I can do it with
myself with help from the government. So that's what I
would say has been the dominant culture for the better
part of about sixty years, that men are no longer necessary.
Men in marriage, are no longer necessary when it comes
(15:08):
to forming a family.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So what's interesting about that?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Though? Right, you talk about your parents being married for
forty plus years. I grew up in Flatbush, not far
away from the you know where you were talking about it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Ease Flatbush.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It was always a point of pride when your parents
were married, and it was a point of pride for
the kids, and it was a point of pride for
the parents. How come, even though that's like something that
people have so much, you know, just take so much
pride in, why hasn't that kind of spread to the culture.
(15:42):
Why don't we think of that as something to aspire to,
despite the fact that the people who are in it
are so happy to be in it.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
I think one reason is because over the course of decades,
no one wants to feel as if they're stigmatized someone else.
And one of the things, and I said this sometimes
to people on the right, there's no way to create
and uphold an ideal without policing either the behavior or
(16:14):
the people that transgress that idea on the back end, right.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Like you can't say this is bad. You know, but
you know single mom is a bad thing to do,
but because you know it offends a lot of people.
But but you're also you want to get to the
place where people do it less.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So it's it's a tough dance, right, So.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So you have to choose. You have to choose one.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
You either have to accept new new norms and say, well,
these are equally good, or you can say this is
the ideal and even gently sort of police it on
the on the on on the back end, I think
people don't mind policing. The police function right in terms
of social stigma when it is pointed at men who
(16:58):
fail to fulfill their responsibilities.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
So easier, it's much easier, guy's a deadbeat dad.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
But the moment, culturally speaking, we feel as if we
are criticizing in any way, shape or form what women
do in terms of relationships single motherhood, particularly if it's
single motherhood by choice, then people, I think, get a
lot less comfortable. They say, oh, we don't want to stigmatize.
We don't want people to feel bad, We don't want
(17:25):
those children to feel stigmatized. Right, And I guess.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
If you don't, you don't want them to be stigmatized. Right,
you might have them in your family or among your friends.
You don't want them to feel bad, but you also
don't want to see it replicate itself correct along the
larger culture.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Correct correct Now.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
I give this example because I think there are ways
to handle this in the culture. And the best example
is in schools.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
You go to any school, particularly in a big school
district New York, Philadelphia, DC, and you're going to see
college pushed from the time kids into kindergarten. You'll see
the little banner of Duke and Harvard and Yale and Stanford,
and you will hear administrators saying, we believe every child
should go to college. And they say that even though
(18:10):
many of the children in these schools have parents who
did not go to college. But nobody feels as if
we're saying, oh, you're a bad person if you don't
even go to college, because we recognize that, generally speaking,
parents want better for the kids than what they've had
for themselves, and people believe that college net net is
a positive good and an ideal that children should strive for.
(18:32):
And my argument is that we can do something similar
with the ideal of putting marriage before carriage. Now, if
some people say I don't want to get married at all,
I don't want kids, that's fine, that's their preference. But
when it comes to forming a family, particularly with children
are involved, I believe that we should prioritize the needs
(18:54):
and rights of children over the desires of adults.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And the right that I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Is every child's right to the affection, protection, correction, and
direction of the man and woman who created them, and
that I believe that right is best exercised in a
loving and low conflict home with a married mom and dad.
So I think there's ways to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
But I think all.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Photology example is a very good one, right, and we
see it.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
And the thing is, I would argue that the difference
between let's say, getting a college degree and not getting one,
particularly if you're in the trades, is vastly It's a smaller,
sort of marginal difference than getting married before you have
kids and sort of choosing to let's say, as a man,
(19:41):
let's say I choose to have five kids by four women,
none of whom I live with. That's a very big difference, right,
Five by one is different than five by five, if
I could put it that way, Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
My nine year old says, you want eighteen kids, and
I say, as long as you're all having them all
with the same woman, I don't care whatever you want,
as long as there's only one baby Mama.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Come Thanksgiving, you know, there we go.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. So what do you
worry about?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
That's a good question.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I'm not particularly prone to worry. But if I am
concerned about the state of the American family, and the
reason why is because I believe that many of the
issues that vex policymakers, whether in the schoolhouse, the courthouse,
or the jail house, all starting home. So I'm concerned
(20:36):
that we are making it more difficult and we've lost
our way in terms of the natural order of things.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Right, you and I we grew up going to school.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
You hear this on the school yard, right, Chris and
Christine are sitting in the tree, KI s S I
n G.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
First comes love, then comes marriage.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
To bring that song back.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Right, that comes baby in the baby carriage.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I'm concerned because the new script is not working, and
that new script is Chris and Christina are staring at
their screens t e XTI G. First comes sex, then
comes baby, then comes marriage. But that's a big maybe.
So I'm worried that that's becoming more and more normal.
(21:23):
And I'm concerned because I don't think as a society
we've really thought long term about what that means, not
just on a family basis, not just on a community basis,
not just on a city on a city level, but
on a national level and really a civilizational level.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
What advice would you give a sixteen year.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Old Dolato.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
M Listen to your parents.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Their wisdom is underrated. And just because you know a
few things doesn't mean you know everything. And you know
the people that God has given you and put around you,
the adults that have wisdom and life experiences tell you
(22:11):
the things that they tell you because they love you,
not because they want to keep you from having fun.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
They're not trying to get in your way.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Do you get back to Queens.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
A lot every once in a while, actually going up
soon for you know, family function. So I try to
see my parents as much as I can, and they
come come down to the DC area and spend time
and actually, you know, we were talking about family, one
of the things that people don't realize. Let's say I
get married at thirty seven, I have my first kid
(22:41):
at forty, and I have a son. He does the
same thing. Married at thirty seven, first kid at forty. Yeah,
I become a first time granddad at eighty years old.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Right, it's tough.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
So the ways in which we've delayed marriage and having
family even have an effect on potential grandparents because mom
and dad they want some they want some grand babies.
So as soon as you get married, they start to
look and they say, look, you know, hey, so yeah,
so I try to see him as often as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
How do you stress that to your you know, to
the next generation. How do you say to them, do
this sooner than I did it?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
It's I had, you.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Know, But I also if I had, if I had
gotten married earlier than I did, I would have married
the wrong person. You know.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It's a tough. It's a tough.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, I got married at thirty one. I had my
kids in my thirties. I'm fine with my kids doing that. Obviously,
if they meet the right person earlier, I hope they
don't wait. But if they don't, you know, what are
you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
It's hard. I'm similar. I got married at thirty, my
wife was twenty nine. But now looking back on it,
I'm one of the younger people I know.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Right, Yeah, now we're the babies, babies and babies. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I honestly think that marriage as an institution needs a rebrand,
and I think part of that rebrand is not just
talking about the sequence. So as much as I love
the success sequence, it's also about talking about the timing
and letting young people know you don't have to put
off this major decision until you have every single thing
(24:16):
in your life exactly where you want it, so letting
them know that as possible to do it earlier than
most people think, Like my parents got married, I think
at twenty four and twenty one something like that, which
was normal back then, that was actually right on target.
And right now, the median age and first marriage is
thirty one and twenty nine, and there's no reason to expect,
(24:37):
just giving our current cultural trends, that it won't in
another twenty years be up to I don't know, thirty
seven and thirty five or close to forty at all
if at all? Right, So, I think there are ways
to do it some schools. There's some colleges where that
ring by ring by Spring or mrs degree culture is
(25:00):
still there. But I think it's something that needs to
be discussed and sort of just raising awareness and to say, hey,
this is this is the most important decision you're going
to make with your life, and marriage and family are
going to give you a level of personal fulfillment that
you can't get anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I really think you're the guy to do the rebrand. Honestly,
I think I think you really You're really onto a
lot of things here. And I've had, you know, I've
obviously had the conversation about marriage in a lot of
different ways. I just think you bring up some really
interesting arguments and I appreciate that I nominate you to
do the marriage rebrand across the country.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I appreciate that, so.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And us here with your best tip for my listeners
on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Hmm, that's a good one. I would say this.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I would say to invest your energy and your resources
and the people who are closest to you, the people
who matter the most. I'd say divest from political obsession
and invest in family and friends. Because people who have
strong faith commitments, who have a strong you know, sort
(26:12):
of family ties, and who have personally fulfilling you know,
friendships and relationships. In my experience, and I think the
day to bear this out, those are the people that
tend to be most content and happy with their lives.
So for me, you know, my wife and I we're
part of a really great local church where we do
life together with other couples, my best friends growing up.
(26:35):
You know, we played on the same church team in Brooklyn.
We're still best friends to this day. We talk every
day on WhatsApp. And you know, my family and other
you know, church family are people who I lean on,
you know, when times get difficult.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
So I would say.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
To buck the cultural trend of seeing partisan power as
the end all be all, yeah, and get back to
doing life with real life people.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I love that. Here is Dolano Squires. Thank you so
much for coming on, Delano. It's been an amazing conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
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