December 23, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham & Karol Markowicz tackle one of the biggest challenges facing modern families: balancing career ambition with raising children. They push back on the idea that parents must choose between professional success and family life, sharing insights on how supportive relationships and strong community connections make it possible to have both. The episode dives into practical parenting strategies, including sleep training and navigating early childhood routines, while also addressing the realities of raising kids in urban environments.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, guys, you're a back on the show with normal,
which takes full when these gets weird. And during the
holidays we were doing some ask us anything, and you
guys have been kind enough to contribute questions to us.
So let's kick it off with whatever we got under
the hood here.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We have a lot of good ones.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Mary Catherine, We're gonna start with what advice do you
have for young women who want to get married, have kids,
be a pretty involved mom without completely throwing their career
prospects away. I really feel like we get this a lot,
and I do think it's so important to address because
people are worried about this.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
They want both and they don't understand.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
They're told they can't have both by a lot of people,
and they're looking to us to tell them that they
can have both.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I'm here to say you can.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You absolutely can getting married, having kids, being an involved
mom should not mean you don't get to have a career,
and anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
Does it mean that you will, you know, one hundred percent,
be at every single thing that you always.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Want to be at for both your career and your kids.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
No, you may have to miss a thing or two,
but getting most of it in both places is enough.
And I'm here to tell you you will make choices
and you will find the right balance and it's completely doable.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
What do you think, Yeah, I think the good news
is that, particularly post COVID, I always say that I
had a COVID era flexibility pre COVID that I created
yea for myself. But part of that, for both of us,
was being intentional about making choices and taking gigs that
allowed for the flexibility for me to be with my kids.
(01:43):
That was the plan. That was why I chose to
follow this path. It's why I didn't choose, for instance,
to run and gun for my own primetime show or
something right, that was not the object. The object was
to be in my kids' lives and to be around
and available sometimes at odd hours where a nine to
(02:03):
five job wouldn't work for me. And as a result,
there are opportunities I didn't take. There's money I didn't take.
There's flexibility I took instead of money. There's healthcare situations
that had to be a little more patched together because
I was taking gigs that you take that. So that's
my experience in the Bombacare Mountain Market Woo. So there
are sacrifices, yes, but my eye was on the ball,
(02:27):
and the ball was I want to spend time with
my kids, so I think, and I'm not the most
intentional person in the world, you may have noticed, Carol,
But on this front, I think I had in mind
that this is what's important to me, and this is
what's not as important to me. And knowing that and
being able to be confident and what's important to you,
that's half the battle.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, I'll also add I feel like there's a lot
of rigid thinking about being with your kids. Like so
a lot of people will say, you know, when you're
with your kids, don't even look at your phone. Well no,
I pick up my kids from school, you know, at
three o'clock every day, and I'm still so I do
have to look at my phone, and I'm sorry, Like
I don't get to just just log off and be
(03:06):
completely with my kids. I pick them up every single day.
I have the conversations that you can only have on
the drive home from school, that they suddenly are open
up and talk to you about stuff. I'm there, I'm
present as much as I can. I do avoid the phone.
But look, if I have if I'm on a deadline
or if my editors sending me something or whatever, I
am going to be on my phone a little bit,
(03:27):
like give yourself a little grace and space to do
both things sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, I try to model good behavior in that way,
and I'm not always great at it. Yeah, but I
would say I there's rigidity from everyone in the online
conversation about this and in the discourse about this that
I think crowds out how many more choices we have
exactly than we used to. My mother didn't have half
the choices I have available to her, and so or
(03:55):
the resources or just in like like having groceries delivered,
for instance, which is a more expensive way of doing it,
but if you need it, you can do it. Like
there's all these things that she didn't have at her disposal,
And I look back at her and I go, how
is she like running errands every Yeah? How was she
getting anything done?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And didn't have cell phones?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yes, I'm kind of amazed by all that she did
get done back then. And of course my dad was
similarly supportive as our husbands are, so that was.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
A huge That's another thing.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Marry the right person who will support you in your
decisions and be there for you and have you know,
some shared responsibilities in the home. I've talked about this before.
We are fairly heteronormative. If something breaks, so he has
to fix it. Like that, I followed all the laundry.
Like we do kind of fall into the very typical
(04:51):
women in female and male roles. But we do both
have responsibilities and we both participate in parenting for example.
That's something that we do together.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah. The other form of practical advice I would give
is if you do want to get married and have kids,
be clear about that in your own mind and with
potential partners, and don't hang around for six years engaged
or living together or whatever the thing is. If you
want that to be your path, make it clear and
either what do they say, fish or cup bait?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
That's right, pooper, get off the pot Tay said it
the nice way. So that brings us to our next question,
which actually fits very well with the end of that.
Where can we hear mkh uncensored? I want to hear
full potty mouth, but it ain't going to be on
cable or podcasts apparently.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, I mean, I can get pretty bad. I must canes.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I've never heard. You're always like very non cursy.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Not in my house, not in my house. And I
don't think I will do it publicly because it's it's
bad form and I should be a better, more polite
Southern lady, and I shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I see you as that polite Southern lady like our
friend Bethany Mendel, Like she curses, she curses, you know
in her everyday life.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You do not curse, you know her sometimes?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Well, I again, I do, but not on air. And
if you really want to see it, you'll have to
catch me at a sports bar watching a dog's game.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Mm hmmm, but.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The dogs have been winning, so I know you're not
even cursing at the TV screen.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Come on, that's true. But if you were to find
me out of line in public, that's where it would be.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Can you too, please host a party? Women are desperate
for connections with like minded women, and all of your
listeners would become best friends.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I love that. That's so fun.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I used to do that for my blog. I used
to have, like, you know, people who read me. We'd
have like parties and people did become friends and get
married and all kinds.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Of stuff through those meetups.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I'd love to do that. Actually I don't know where
where would we do that. It couldn't be like in DC, right,
I mean, you know, and I don't. I mean, I
pitched South Florida, But.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I also just don't think it would be here either.
Where Where would that be?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Like I like the idea, let's sprainstorm it a little bit.
Also a thing that I think, I think this uh,
this listener is correct that people are longing for connections.
And one of the things that I should probably make
a New Year's resolution is that I'm not great at hosting.
I'm a I'm a nervous hoster when it comes to
dinner parties or even just having people over casually. I
(07:31):
get nervous. I get insecure about what I'm offering and
is my cheese good enough?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I hear you, I hear you.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And so I need to get better about that, because
I feel like I don't go to other people's houses
and get mad about what cheese they offer me, like
like if they're not judging me, they're my friends, Like
they could come in, don't be fine. So I'm going
to try to get better about offering that part of
connection to other people as well.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I like that. I'm look, I'm also a nervous hoster.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Actually not so much in my house, but when I
have to have parties or like when I had book
launch parties or kids barb butt mitzvahs. I'm always like
people having fun. I just can't tell. So that kind
of stuff makes me nervous. But yeah, you're right, there
are friends they're not going to care well.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And the fact is when you get a bunch of
cool people together, they.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Have fun, right, It's so obvious. And our friends are
cool people and our listeners are cool people. So yeah,
I think, you know, we'll have to figure out a way.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Maybe it'll be around some other big event, maybe like
the next you know, GOP convention or something.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
That doesn't sound that fun actually, but something something, some
kind of big something. Maybe we'll have a wet together
normally listener party and you know that'll be the.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That'll be what we do.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I like it all right.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Speaking of your cheese, actually, can you DM me the
pimento cheese recipe from Hurricane ninety three on Twitter?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Why do you leave.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
This poor listener hanging I just don't understand the pimento cheese.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Mkay. The people want should look it's very simple. I
just you know what I need to do. I need
to text my dad right now and be like, is
this public? Can I just make this public?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
And I feel like you said this a year ago.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I know, but this is the problem with my my
brain dysfunction is that once I once those words come
out of my mouth, I will forget they came out
of my mouth and I will not follow up. But listen,
I'm gonna write it down right now.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, mister hammer, can this be public.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
About the pimento cheese?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Okay? All right?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I mean really it's very simple. It's that's the thing
about all the fancy pimento cheeses. You'll need all that.
You just need like you seed the cheese and the
mayonnaise and basically red pepper flakes and that's that's that's
about it, folks. That's it. Yeah. Well, I mean, you
know in the pimento obviously.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Hurricane ninety three. I hope you're listening and there you
have it. But you know, we'll find out if I'm caking.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I'm gonna work on this. I'm gonna work on this,
all right?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Do we do a serious one? Sure?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
No more pimento, here we go. Why do you think
j Evans is incapable of distancing himself from Groiper's or
even taking seriously anti Semitism on the right.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I have been thinking.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
About this a lot, and I really like Jadvance. I
liked him before he became vice president. I still like
him today. But he's whiffing on this, and he's missing
the opportunity to define himself as the kind of man
who won't stand for.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
This kind of thing. And I get it.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I get that there's a lot of difficult angles to this.
He's very close friends with Tucker Crelson. I have admitted
on here that I delayed saying anything about Tucker until
it got really bad because I like Tucker Crelson.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I liked him. I used to go on his show.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
We were friendly, we used to text, and so I
gave him the benefit of the doubt until it was
impossible to give him any more benefit of the doubt.
And that's where J. D Van has to be. The
time for this has long passed. There's no denying what
this is anymore. And I'd love to see J. D
Vance take a stand. I think it would be good
(10:58):
for him. I think he thinks he would lose who's
some number of followers or you know, people who would
vote for him.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I'm not so sure. I think he would gain people.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I think people long for sanity and normalcy, and he
could deliver that to them.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Also, leadership is important. Yeah, you know, even if you
think there's a segment of people who will not come
with you right on these very sane, decent person sentiments, yep,
you can help by leading. Yeah. And He's in particular,
is a very effective communicator who has relationships with people
(11:35):
who are listened to by younger people on the Groper
right or the Internet right, and could actually influence how
people come to their conclusions about this. So that's the
thing that he should do. It's an opportunity I think.
Also on other fronts. You know, I remember when the
(11:55):
Signal Chat was publicized by Jeffrey Goldberg at The Atlantic
because he had been mistakenly added to the Signal chat.
What struck me is just how hesitant JD. Vance was
about American force because even in the case of American
targets being hit and these you know, very obviously places
(12:17):
that we should have control over being hit by Uji's
He was like, should we be up to this? So
there are things that concern me about his ideology that
I just don't agree with, and I don't I think
that Trump is more willing to make those calls and
would be concerned about him. And I think Left and
Right welcome to the horseshoe when it comes to young people.
(12:41):
The establishments of both parties are trying to figure out
how they keep young people in and they see the
polling on young people turning against Israel to some extent
being a little more isolationist and in fact sometimes openly
anti Semitic, and they don't know how to keep that
under the tent without sort of winking at it. And
(13:02):
to your point, Carol, I think that's not only morally wrong,
but probably tactically strategically wrong in the end, because the
Normies outnumber these folks.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
The Normi's out number them.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Concern, of course, is that that fringe wing will keep
growing and the Normies will be out numbered.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
The thing about Israel.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Which is why I think that leadership is important from
someone who's a really good communicator.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
For sure, and The thing about Israel is that it's
not about Israel. It's really not like if you want
to cut you know, all funding to all you know,
all foreign aid to all countries, go ahead, run on that,
discuss that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Don't wink at it.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Don't like pretend you're talking about something else, like I actually,
I again, I don't. I think a lot of people
ascribe motives to JD. Vance that maybe he doesn't have.
And I'm talking about the groypers see him as as
a fellow traveler, like oh, he's going to dump his wife,
his Indian wife and marry you know, Charlie Kirk's widow.
Kind of insanity online.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I know. But the thing is, until I hear it
from him, I don't know what he stands for.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And this whole idea of like, oh, people are just
attacking Tucker because they want they hate JD's foreign policy.
And my comment to that is, is JD's foreign policy
different than Donald Trump's foreign policy?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And if so, does the president know that his vice
president's foreign policy is different than his own? I feel
like this is an important conversation to have.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Why are we having it in like whispers on the
internet instead of out loud, you know, everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I'm going to continue to give JD.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
The benefit of the doubt, and I'm going to see
where this goes. But yeah, I don't love how quiet
he's been and how muted his criticism has been. And
I get that he doesn't want to get caught in
the trap that mainstream media does set for Republicans to
constantly be denouncing things.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, I get that. I get it.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
You don't have to be denouncing everything all the time.
But this is becoming something that you ma, you want
to denounced in the in the near future, cry it
out method for or against if for at what age?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Oh this is this is very controvery last one thought,
I thought.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, I really, I I don't know. All right, let's
hear it.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So I am after four kids, I have always been,
I think modified cry it out so I won't leave
them in perpetuity. Yeah, but I will do a timer
for a few minutes to see if my children starting
it about I want to say, like five ish months. Okay,
(15:39):
can learn a little bit to put themselves to sleep,
to self soothe a little bit. Right now. There are
some people on the other end of the spectrum who
think this is like just monstrous behavior. Really okay, yes,
and that my children like will not we'll have attachment
issues and all it. It's like, okay, I don't know.
I keep them in my room till a four and
(16:00):
a half months old. I feel like we're pretty attached.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
You're attached. I feel like you're attached.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But yeah, I do think I'm on the side that
thinks sleep hygiene, like decent sleep patterns and teaching them
are pretty good for both mom and baby, and particularly
I don't want to go insane during the first year
of my child's life because that doesn't make me a
great parent for anyone, right, So yeah, I do a
(16:26):
little bit of like co sleeping and bassinette in my
room for four or five months, and then I do
a modified version of teaching them to sleep on their own.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So here's my question. Did you read any parenting books?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Not really. I read Expecting Better About Pregnancy because I
really appreciated Emily Ooster's approach to treating pregnant women like
adults who can make decisions based on rational risk analysis.
And then after that I did on my third and
fourth kids have to brush up on sleep stuff, really,
(16:58):
and they were different kinds of kids, and that's what
it is.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
The kid that different throws you off completely. Avands go
out the window, and.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I think my Force was probably my worst sleeper. But
they've all been pretty decent, which is why I have
four kids name right and so on. The last ones
I did taking care of Babies program a little bit
to try to refresh my memory. She is a She's
an Instagram influencer taking care of c A r A babies,
and I find her to be responsible, middle of the
(17:28):
road maternal force who has a lot of experience and
just has practical tips for how you can get your
get your sanity back posts.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I only read Happiest Baby on the Block, and the
only thing I remember about it is start how you
want to go on, which is something that I live
by completely. Like I think a lot of people expect
their kids to change or they oh, Bill garad of
this and I won't have to do this anymore. I think,
you know, as the great philosopher Jay Z said, you
(17:57):
are who you are player, and you could try to change,
but that's just the top layer. You was who you
was when you got here. You was who you was
when you got here, and I think my kids just
stayed that way. I don't think we ever did cry
it out. We the middle child is our only was
our only bad sleeper, and maybe we'd pause before we'd
go into the room. I remember some other French parenting
(18:20):
guide that I maybe skimmed had a le pause thing
where you just wait a second and see if they
calm down on their own. Maybe we do that, I
don't remember ever, just like letting them cry it out.
I guess I just I didn't read enough parenting books
or enough parenting information. There was not you know, was
the era before Instagram, you know, influencing, So I didn't
really have the guidelines of what I was supposed to do,
(18:40):
and we just we did our.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Best, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, I mean I sound like such an old lady.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Wow, Like my god, there's really there really is something
to taking a beat right just just like okay, like not,
because I do think you'll drive yourself pretty crazy if
every single whimper which does happen, Like there have been
times in my parenting journey when I was anxious and
I had the baby right next to me, and every
(19:06):
single thing I was up and like oh, and I
realized that that was not a healthy loop for me
to be in, and it wasn't help for me or
for the kid totally, and so I had to kind
of work myself out of that doing some modified behaviors.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So all right, I mean I like that question.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I think that that's the kind of thing that you
just have to kind of figure out for yourself what
works best for your family. But I love that the
sharing of information, that's what parenting supposed to be, like,
I think.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I saw a funny clip the other day that was
like Sam Altman the chat, Yeah, the open opening. I
was like, I don't know how anyone had a baby
before AI and it's like, well, for a long time,
we've done that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Even before Google people had babies. I heard.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
It's like welcome to natural selections. Sir, Like, yeah, all.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Right, well one friends, Yeah, I talk to your friends
about it for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
We'll do one more question.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Okay, besides moving, what is your advice for normal, sane
families who are trying to raise kids in New York City?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh, my gosh, besides moving.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Besides moving, Look, I get moving as hard and all
of that.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I really do.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I understand that it's not possible for some people but
it has to.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Be considered, is what I would just say.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Maybe you don't you can't move like to Florida or something,
but maybe you move to Long Island. Maybe that's the
solution or the compromise that you make to keep a sane.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Childhood for your kids.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
If not, I would say, find the enclaves in New
York City that are more sane. My part of South Brooklyn,
basically all of the neighborhoods south of, like Park Slope,
are fairly sane and just more normal, more places where
you won't see the kind of insanity that you'll see.
And what I love large to consider the transplant neighborhoods
(21:02):
of Northern Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, I mean I live in kind of a I'm
in the mid Atlantic, I'm near DC, but not in
it sort of medium level of issues with weirdness, certainly
in the school system, the public school system, and that's
what that's one of the things that's so sad about
the public school systems and the teachers' unions and all
the weirdos taking over, is that you've stolen normal from
(21:24):
the Norman We could have had normal, We used to
have normal, And there's been a concerted effort to make
that not the norm anymore. So one of the things
I do is that most of the things we do
have a faith component, because I find that extracurricular activities
that are explicitly religious are what normy was in the.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Nineties, so true accepting Judaism, well, and this is the
problem right in Christianity that works and it does not
work as well.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You guys are others, and I envy you, But yeah,
I put my kids and stuff that feels very old
school because it's explicitly religious, but feels very old school.
Feels kind of like nineteen ninety five to two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Two, so those were the glory days.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So that's one of the ways. And I also we
make sure that not make sure, but we are surrounded
by a lot of military families as well, so that's
a much more normal demographic.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I would say that find your people, find the people
who think like you. Even if you guys are well
out numbered, at least you'll have each other for sanity.
At least you'll be able to look at each other
and say, this is crazy, right, what's going on is crazy?
Like not sweeping up homeless encampments and letting them.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Grow and fester.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
That's crazy, right, Okay, good. I just needed a reality
check that this wasn't a normal thing to do. That's
the want to raise your kids. If you have to
raise your kids somewhere that people largely disagree with you,
find the people that do agree with you and form.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Your own community.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And that's that's really the only thing you can do.
Move to Staten Island. I mean, they're kind of still normal.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, all right, good luck you guys. It's not easy.
You gotta make anyse decisions. It's not easy.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
No, it's not easy. It's not easy. And I really
feel for the people who can't make a different decision.
And I really really understand you, and I.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Think about you.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I root for you.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I want things to improve for you.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Thanks for joining us on this very special Ask Us
Anything episode of Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and
you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in
touch with us at normally theepot at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, you act normally.
Hey, guys, you're a back on the show with normal,
which takes full when these gets weird. And during the
holidays we were doing some ask us anything, and you
guys have been kind enough to contribute questions to us.
So let's kick it off with whatever we got under
the hood here.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We have a lot of good ones.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Mary Catherine, We're gonna start with what advice do you
have for young women who want to get married, have kids,
be a pretty involved mom without completely throwing their career
prospects away. I really feel like we get this a lot,
and I do think it's so important to address because
people are worried about this.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
They want both and they don't understand.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
They're told they can't have both by a lot of people,
and they're looking to us to tell them that they
can have both.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I'm here to say you can.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You absolutely can getting married, having kids, being an involved
mom should not mean you don't get to have a career,
and anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
Does it mean that you will, you know, one hundred percent,
be at every single thing that you always.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Want to be at for both your career and your kids.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
No, you may have to miss a thing or two,
but getting most of it in both places is enough.
And I'm here to tell you you will make choices
and you will find the right balance and it's completely doable.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
What do you think, Yeah, I think the good news
is that, particularly post COVID, I always say that I
had a COVID era flexibility pre COVID that I created
yea for myself. But part of that, for both of us,
was being intentional about making choices and taking gigs that
allowed for the flexibility for me to be with my kids.
(01:43):
That was the plan. That was why I chose to
follow this path. It's why I didn't choose, for instance,
to run and gun for my own primetime show or
something right, that was not the object. The object was
to be in my kids' lives and to be around
and available sometimes at odd hours where a nine to
(02:03):
five job wouldn't work for me. And as a result,
there are opportunities I didn't take. There's money I didn't take.
There's flexibility I took instead of money. There's healthcare situations
that had to be a little more patched together because
I was taking gigs that you take that. So that's
my experience in the Bombacare Mountain Market Woo. So there
are sacrifices, yes, but my eye was on the ball,
(02:27):
and the ball was I want to spend time with
my kids, so I think, and I'm not the most
intentional person in the world, you may have noticed, Carol,
But on this front, I think I had in mind
that this is what's important to me, and this is
what's not as important to me. And knowing that and
being able to be confident and what's important to you,
that's half the battle.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, I'll also add I feel like there's a lot
of rigid thinking about being with your kids. Like so
a lot of people will say, you know, when you're
with your kids, don't even look at your phone. Well no,
I pick up my kids from school, you know, at
three o'clock every day, and I'm still so I do
have to look at my phone, and I'm sorry, Like
I don't get to just just log off and be
(03:06):
completely with my kids. I pick them up every single day.
I have the conversations that you can only have on
the drive home from school, that they suddenly are open
up and talk to you about stuff. I'm there, I'm
present as much as I can. I do avoid the phone.
But look, if I have if I'm on a deadline
or if my editors sending me something or whatever, I
am going to be on my phone a little bit,
(03:27):
like give yourself a little grace and space to do
both things sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, I try to model good behavior in that way,
and I'm not always great at it. Yeah, but I
would say I there's rigidity from everyone in the online
conversation about this and in the discourse about this that
I think crowds out how many more choices we have
exactly than we used to. My mother didn't have half
the choices I have available to her, and so or
(03:55):
the resources or just in like like having groceries delivered,
for instance, which is a more expensive way of doing it,
but if you need it, you can do it. Like
there's all these things that she didn't have at her disposal,
And I look back at her and I go, how
is she like running errands every Yeah? How was she
getting anything done?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And didn't have cell phones?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yes, I'm kind of amazed by all that she did
get done back then. And of course my dad was
similarly supportive as our husbands are, so that was.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
A huge That's another thing.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Marry the right person who will support you in your
decisions and be there for you and have you know,
some shared responsibilities in the home. I've talked about this before.
We are fairly heteronormative. If something breaks, so he has
to fix it. Like that, I followed all the laundry.
Like we do kind of fall into the very typical
(04:51):
women in female and male roles. But we do both
have responsibilities and we both participate in parenting for example.
That's something that we do together.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah. The other form of practical advice I would give
is if you do want to get married and have kids,
be clear about that in your own mind and with
potential partners, and don't hang around for six years engaged
or living together or whatever the thing is. If you
want that to be your path, make it clear and
either what do they say, fish or cup bait?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
That's right, pooper, get off the pot Tay said it
the nice way. So that brings us to our next question,
which actually fits very well with the end of that.
Where can we hear mkh uncensored? I want to hear
full potty mouth, but it ain't going to be on
cable or podcasts apparently.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, I mean, I can get pretty bad. I must canes.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I've never heard. You're always like very non cursy.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Not in my house, not in my house. And I
don't think I will do it publicly because it's it's
bad form and I should be a better, more polite
Southern lady, and I shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I see you as that polite Southern lady like our
friend Bethany Mendel, Like she curses, she curses, you know
in her everyday life.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You do not curse, you know her sometimes?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Well, I again, I do, but not on air. And
if you really want to see it, you'll have to
catch me at a sports bar watching a dog's game.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Mm hmmm, but.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The dogs have been winning, so I know you're not
even cursing at the TV screen.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Come on, that's true. But if you were to find
me out of line in public, that's where it would be.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Can you too, please host a party? Women are desperate
for connections with like minded women, and all of your
listeners would become best friends.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I love that. That's so fun.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I used to do that for my blog. I used
to have, like, you know, people who read me. We'd
have like parties and people did become friends and get
married and all kinds.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Of stuff through those meetups.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I'd love to do that. Actually I don't know where
where would we do that. It couldn't be like in DC, right,
I mean, you know, and I don't. I mean, I
pitched South Florida, But.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I also just don't think it would be here either.
Where Where would that be?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Like I like the idea, let's sprainstorm it a little bit.
Also a thing that I think, I think this uh,
this listener is correct that people are longing for connections.
And one of the things that I should probably make
a New Year's resolution is that I'm not great at hosting.
I'm a I'm a nervous hoster when it comes to
dinner parties or even just having people over casually. I
(07:31):
get nervous. I get insecure about what I'm offering and
is my cheese good enough?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I hear you, I hear you.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And so I need to get better about that, because
I feel like I don't go to other people's houses
and get mad about what cheese they offer me, like
like if they're not judging me, they're my friends, Like
they could come in, don't be fine. So I'm going
to try to get better about offering that part of
connection to other people as well.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I like that. I'm look, I'm also a nervous hoster.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Actually not so much in my house, but when I
have to have parties or like when I had book
launch parties or kids barb butt mitzvahs. I'm always like
people having fun. I just can't tell. So that kind
of stuff makes me nervous. But yeah, you're right, there
are friends they're not going to care well.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And the fact is when you get a bunch of
cool people together, they.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Have fun, right, It's so obvious. And our friends are
cool people and our listeners are cool people. So yeah,
I think, you know, we'll have to figure out a way.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Maybe it'll be around some other big event, maybe like
the next you know, GOP convention or something.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
That doesn't sound that fun actually, but something something, some
kind of big something. Maybe we'll have a wet together
normally listener party and you know that'll be the.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That'll be what we do.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I like it all right.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Speaking of your cheese, actually, can you DM me the
pimento cheese recipe from Hurricane ninety three on Twitter?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Why do you leave.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
This poor listener hanging I just don't understand the pimento cheese.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Mkay. The people want should look it's very simple. I
just you know what I need to do. I need
to text my dad right now and be like, is
this public? Can I just make this public?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
And I feel like you said this a year ago.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I know, but this is the problem with my my
brain dysfunction is that once I once those words come
out of my mouth, I will forget they came out
of my mouth and I will not follow up. But listen,
I'm gonna write it down right now.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, mister hammer, can this be public.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
About the pimento cheese?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Okay? All right?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I mean really it's very simple. It's that's the thing
about all the fancy pimento cheeses. You'll need all that.
You just need like you seed the cheese and the
mayonnaise and basically red pepper flakes and that's that's that's
about it, folks. That's it. Yeah. Well, I mean, you
know in the pimento obviously.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Hurricane ninety three. I hope you're listening and there you
have it. But you know, we'll find out if I'm caking.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I'm gonna work on this. I'm gonna work on this,
all right?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Do we do a serious one? Sure?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
No more pimento, here we go. Why do you think
j Evans is incapable of distancing himself from Groiper's or
even taking seriously anti Semitism on the right.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I have been thinking.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
About this a lot, and I really like Jadvance. I
liked him before he became vice president. I still like
him today. But he's whiffing on this, and he's missing
the opportunity to define himself as the kind of man
who won't stand for.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
This kind of thing. And I get it.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I get that there's a lot of difficult angles to this.
He's very close friends with Tucker Crelson. I have admitted
on here that I delayed saying anything about Tucker until
it got really bad because I like Tucker Crelson.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I liked him. I used to go on his show.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
We were friendly, we used to text, and so I
gave him the benefit of the doubt until it was
impossible to give him any more benefit of the doubt.
And that's where J. D Van has to be. The
time for this has long passed. There's no denying what
this is anymore. And I'd love to see J. D
Vance take a stand. I think it would be good
(10:58):
for him. I think he thinks he would lose who's
some number of followers or you know, people who would
vote for him.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I'm not so sure. I think he would gain people.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I think people long for sanity and normalcy, and he
could deliver that to them.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Also, leadership is important. Yeah, you know, even if you
think there's a segment of people who will not come
with you right on these very sane, decent person sentiments, yep,
you can help by leading. Yeah. And He's in particular,
is a very effective communicator who has relationships with people
(11:35):
who are listened to by younger people on the Groper
right or the Internet right, and could actually influence how
people come to their conclusions about this. So that's the
thing that he should do. It's an opportunity I think.
Also on other fronts. You know, I remember when the
(11:55):
Signal Chat was publicized by Jeffrey Goldberg at The Atlantic
because he had been mistakenly added to the Signal chat.
What struck me is just how hesitant JD. Vance was
about American force because even in the case of American
targets being hit and these you know, very obviously places
(12:17):
that we should have control over being hit by Uji's
He was like, should we be up to this? So
there are things that concern me about his ideology that
I just don't agree with, and I don't I think
that Trump is more willing to make those calls and
would be concerned about him. And I think Left and
Right welcome to the horseshoe when it comes to young people.
(12:41):
The establishments of both parties are trying to figure out
how they keep young people in and they see the
polling on young people turning against Israel to some extent
being a little more isolationist and in fact sometimes openly
anti Semitic, and they don't know how to keep that
under the tent without sort of winking at it. And
(13:02):
to your point, Carol, I think that's not only morally wrong,
but probably tactically strategically wrong in the end, because the
Normies outnumber these folks.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
The Normi's out number them.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Concern, of course, is that that fringe wing will keep
growing and the Normies will be out numbered.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
The thing about Israel.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Which is why I think that leadership is important from
someone who's a really good communicator.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
For sure, and The thing about Israel is that it's
not about Israel. It's really not like if you want
to cut you know, all funding to all you know,
all foreign aid to all countries, go ahead, run on that,
discuss that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Don't wink at it.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Don't like pretend you're talking about something else, like I actually,
I again, I don't. I think a lot of people
ascribe motives to JD. Vance that maybe he doesn't have.
And I'm talking about the groypers see him as as
a fellow traveler, like oh, he's going to dump his wife,
his Indian wife and marry you know, Charlie Kirk's widow.
Kind of insanity online.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I know. But the thing is, until I hear it
from him, I don't know what he stands for.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And this whole idea of like, oh, people are just
attacking Tucker because they want they hate JD's foreign policy.
And my comment to that is, is JD's foreign policy
different than Donald Trump's foreign policy?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And if so, does the president know that his vice
president's foreign policy is different than his own? I feel
like this is an important conversation to have.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Why are we having it in like whispers on the
internet instead of out loud, you know, everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I'm going to continue to give JD.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
The benefit of the doubt, and I'm going to see
where this goes. But yeah, I don't love how quiet
he's been and how muted his criticism has been. And
I get that he doesn't want to get caught in
the trap that mainstream media does set for Republicans to
constantly be denouncing things.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, I get that. I get it.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
You don't have to be denouncing everything all the time.
But this is becoming something that you ma, you want
to denounced in the in the near future, cry it
out method for or against if for at what age?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Oh this is this is very controvery last one thought,
I thought.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, I really, I I don't know. All right, let's
hear it.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So I am after four kids, I have always been,
I think modified cry it out so I won't leave
them in perpetuity. Yeah, but I will do a timer
for a few minutes to see if my children starting
it about I want to say, like five ish months. Okay,
(15:39):
can learn a little bit to put themselves to sleep,
to self soothe a little bit. Right now. There are
some people on the other end of the spectrum who
think this is like just monstrous behavior. Really okay, yes,
and that my children like will not we'll have attachment
issues and all it. It's like, okay, I don't know.
I keep them in my room till a four and
(16:00):
a half months old. I feel like we're pretty attached.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
You're attached. I feel like you're attached.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But yeah, I do think I'm on the side that
thinks sleep hygiene, like decent sleep patterns and teaching them
are pretty good for both mom and baby, and particularly
I don't want to go insane during the first year
of my child's life because that doesn't make me a
great parent for anyone, right, So yeah, I do a
(16:26):
little bit of like co sleeping and bassinette in my
room for four or five months, and then I do
a modified version of teaching them to sleep on their own.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So here's my question. Did you read any parenting books?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Not really. I read Expecting Better About Pregnancy because I
really appreciated Emily Ooster's approach to treating pregnant women like
adults who can make decisions based on rational risk analysis.
And then after that I did on my third and
fourth kids have to brush up on sleep stuff, really,
(16:58):
and they were different kinds of kids, and that's what
it is.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
The kid that different throws you off completely. Avands go
out the window, and.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I think my Force was probably my worst sleeper. But
they've all been pretty decent, which is why I have
four kids name right and so on. The last ones
I did taking care of Babies program a little bit
to try to refresh my memory. She is a She's
an Instagram influencer taking care of c A r A babies,
and I find her to be responsible, middle of the
(17:28):
road maternal force who has a lot of experience and
just has practical tips for how you can get your
get your sanity back posts.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I only read Happiest Baby on the Block, and the
only thing I remember about it is start how you
want to go on, which is something that I live
by completely. Like I think a lot of people expect
their kids to change or they oh, Bill garad of
this and I won't have to do this anymore. I think,
you know, as the great philosopher Jay Z said, you
(17:57):
are who you are player, and you could try to change,
but that's just the top layer. You was who you
was when you got here. You was who you was
when you got here, and I think my kids just
stayed that way. I don't think we ever did cry
it out. We the middle child is our only was
our only bad sleeper, and maybe we'd pause before we'd
go into the room. I remember some other French parenting
(18:20):
guide that I maybe skimmed had a le pause thing
where you just wait a second and see if they
calm down on their own. Maybe we do that, I
don't remember ever, just like letting them cry it out.
I guess I just I didn't read enough parenting books
or enough parenting information. There was not you know, was
the era before Instagram, you know, influencing, So I didn't
really have the guidelines of what I was supposed to do,
(18:40):
and we just we did our.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Best, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, I mean I sound like such an old lady.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Wow, Like my god, there's really there really is something
to taking a beat right just just like okay, like not,
because I do think you'll drive yourself pretty crazy if
every single whimper which does happen, Like there have been
times in my parenting journey when I was anxious and
I had the baby right next to me, and every
(19:06):
single thing I was up and like oh, and I
realized that that was not a healthy loop for me
to be in, and it wasn't help for me or
for the kid totally, and so I had to kind
of work myself out of that doing some modified behaviors.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So all right, I mean I like that question.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I think that that's the kind of thing that you
just have to kind of figure out for yourself what
works best for your family. But I love that the
sharing of information, that's what parenting supposed to be, like,
I think.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I saw a funny clip the other day that was
like Sam Altman the chat, Yeah, the open opening. I
was like, I don't know how anyone had a baby
before AI and it's like, well, for a long time,
we've done that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Even before Google people had babies. I heard.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
It's like welcome to natural selections. Sir, Like, yeah, all.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Right, well one friends, Yeah, I talk to your friends
about it for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
We'll do one more question.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Okay, besides moving, what is your advice for normal, sane
families who are trying to raise kids in New York City?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh, my gosh, besides moving.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Besides moving, Look, I get moving as hard and all
of that.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I really do.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I understand that it's not possible for some people but
it has to.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Be considered, is what I would just say.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Maybe you don't you can't move like to Florida or something,
but maybe you move to Long Island. Maybe that's the
solution or the compromise that you make to keep a sane.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Childhood for your kids.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
If not, I would say, find the enclaves in New
York City that are more sane. My part of South Brooklyn,
basically all of the neighborhoods south of, like Park Slope,
are fairly sane and just more normal, more places where
you won't see the kind of insanity that you'll see.
And what I love large to consider the transplant neighborhoods
(21:02):
of Northern Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, I mean I live in kind of a I'm
in the mid Atlantic, I'm near DC, but not in
it sort of medium level of issues with weirdness, certainly
in the school system, the public school system, and that's
what that's one of the things that's so sad about
the public school systems and the teachers' unions and all
the weirdos taking over, is that you've stolen normal from
(21:24):
the Norman We could have had normal, We used to
have normal, And there's been a concerted effort to make
that not the norm anymore. So one of the things
I do is that most of the things we do
have a faith component, because I find that extracurricular activities
that are explicitly religious are what normy was in the.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Nineties, so true accepting Judaism, well, and this is the
problem right in Christianity that works and it does not
work as well.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You guys are others, and I envy you, But yeah,
I put my kids and stuff that feels very old
school because it's explicitly religious, but feels very old school.
Feels kind of like nineteen ninety five to two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Two, so those were the glory days.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So that's one of the ways. And I also we
make sure that not make sure, but we are surrounded
by a lot of military families as well, so that's
a much more normal demographic.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I would say that find your people, find the people
who think like you. Even if you guys are well
out numbered, at least you'll have each other for sanity.
At least you'll be able to look at each other
and say, this is crazy, right, what's going on is crazy?
Like not sweeping up homeless encampments and letting them.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Grow and fester.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
That's crazy, right, Okay, good. I just needed a reality
check that this wasn't a normal thing to do. That's
the want to raise your kids. If you have to
raise your kids somewhere that people largely disagree with you,
find the people that do agree with you and form.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Your own community.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And that's that's really the only thing you can do.
Move to Staten Island. I mean, they're kind of still normal.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, all right, good luck you guys. It's not easy.
You gotta make anyse decisions. It's not easy.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
No, it's not easy. It's not easy. And I really
feel for the people who can't make a different decision.
And I really really understand you, and I.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Think about you.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I root for you.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I want things to improve for you.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Thanks for joining us on this very special Ask Us
Anything episode of Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and
you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in
touch with us at normally theepot at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, you act normally.
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