September 23, 2025 • 37 mins
Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz unpack Charlie Kirk's memorial service, exploring how his life and legacy continue to shape conservative politics. They highlight Erika Kirk’s moving testimony, examine reactions from the left, and assess the challenges now facing Democratic candidates. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey guys, we are back on. Normally, the show with
It takes for when the news gets weird. I am
Mary catherin him.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Carol Marcolitz. How are you doing, Mary?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I'm all right.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
It's it's been quite a news cycle, weird as they come, sad,
hard to spend a lot of time in. And I
spent quite a bit of time yesterday, both on TV
and at home, watching the Charlie Kirk memorial service, which
took place in a giant.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Stadium in Arizona.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Hundreds of thousands of people there, many that had to
go to overflow because they could not get into the
actual arena, and just scores of speakers and beautiful tributes
and videos. And by the way, just as a you've
been a political operative in the past and someone who
has to put events together, a massive, incredible and nearly
(00:59):
flaw as far as I could tell, logistical event on
weeks notice while they were grieving their boss and friend.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
It's amazing. TPUSA deserves so much praise for it, and
just the event itself was really wonderful. I look, I'm Jewish.
I loved the Christian themes all the way through. I
thought that I loved that, just just a general talking
about God so openly and talking about faith so openly
(01:31):
if you just don't get that very often and in
a public setting, and this is what Charlie was all about.
I always, you know, after he passed, I tweeted that
one of my favorite things about him was his open faith.
When you would talk to him, it would be in
everything that he did, and said, I love that they
honored that for the most part. We'll get into the
(01:52):
rest of that.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yeah, I think, you know, I talked to somebody. I
can't remember if I mentioned it here, but I talked
to someone last week who was about my age, maybe older,
has teen or college age kids, and he said, you know,
I thought of Charlie as a political animal, which was
basically my impression of him. Although a fellow Christian, I
knew that, but my kids thought of him.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
As a faith leader.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And I'm just saying, yeah, And I think that was
a shift he had very noticeably made. Again, I wasn't
the demo for all of his content, so I wasn't
always looking at it as much, and I somewhat regret
it now because I think I would have appreciated him
more while he was here. But yeah, I think there
was a shift in what he was doing, and you
(02:38):
saw that reflected in the celebration of his life, which
was a celebration of his faith and the fact that
his influence on people was in large part to make
them think about their own faith, to think about their
own purpose in this life, and to seek the Bible
(02:59):
and truth and Jesus, and that that would have been
the thing that made him most happy. And so I
think that very clearly reflected who he was, and there
were various parts that were beautiful and the I did
note and again the jibes with him being a faith
leader that five, six, seven, ten of the people I
(03:22):
watched speak just told the story of the Gospel. I
think Marco Rubio gave a ninety second explication of the
Gospel that was downright perfect and very passionate. You could
tell that Rubio really believes this. We really picked a winner,
and that guy back in the day, I love that guy.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I love that guy.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Various preachers who said the same thing avoided the thing
often that people do, which is to deify the person
who died instead of God, who you're actually talking about.
So I thought so much of that was beautiful. I
was on TV with Fox and trying not to listen
to the music too much because I knew I would
cry right if I got too involved in it.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
One of the things that I had heard in the
last few days was Dana lash tweeted to all of
the pastors who are not seizing what is a massive
revival and expanding on this in your churches. Why why
are you scared to talk about this? Why are you
not standing in the gap? This is the moment. I
think people really need to look at their churches. And
I'll tell you Dana tweeted that she left her church,
(04:28):
and I said, you know, I'm so sorry because the
Jewish experience is such that I have left many synagogues
in my life over stupid politics. And I think that
churches should seize this opportunity. It is a moment where
people are turning to their faith, and I think this
is such a great time for churches to grow their memberships,
(04:51):
to expand what people think about God. I think it's
a really, really important moment. And Charlie would have loved that.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, there's so much there's, of course, in fighting, as
there is any religion within Christianity, and Catholics versus Protestants,
but about how you live in a secular world as
a person of faith, and we all have different ways
of tackling it. And I grew up in a very
liberal place where I probably took on too much of
(05:22):
a light touch, like, oh, well, I don't want to
be too pushy, I don't want to be to this
or to that. And Charlie didn't really worry about that,
Like Charlie was just like, this is what I believe.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I'm a person who has spoken about my faith in
public life, but it was specifically because I went through
tragedy in public life. I'm not sure I would have
talked about it as much had it not been necessary
for me in that moment. And I've certainly taken from
Charlie that I should just be more bold about it. Bold,
(05:52):
I think is the word for it. And I think
a lot of people are looking for churches that are
bold and serious, not churches.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
That are like, oh yeah, a little bit, just one second,
same a percynagogue'es same same, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
So at the end of this day, not quite the end,
because the president spoke after her, But Charlie Kirk's widow
Erica kirkk spoke and I want to give my strongest
recommendation that you sit down and watch the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I think it was about thirty minutes long, probably from
beginning to end.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
She is stunningly poised and strong, I would say from
someone who has been through something similar, although with fewer
eyes on me than she has. That is her faith
that is allowing her to do that. It is that
in and of.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Itself, is a testimony.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
She spoke to Robert Draper of The New York Times and, uh,
you know, everybody talks about Charlie faith, but her testimony
that this terrible thing happened to me and I don't
understand why, but God understands why, and I'm trusting him.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, that is some very powerful stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
And I don't think I'm prone to this type of
exaggeration or anything like that. So I was like gauging
my reaction to this speech. I think that that speech
belongs in American oratory.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Absolutely mystery.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
She was mesmerizing. She really was.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
To match a moment in that way perfectly and to
be so moving, I mean, you know's what's the last
speech that we talked about being part of the annals
of oratorical history in this country, probably like Barack Obama
bursts onto the scene at that DNC with red America,
Blue America.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Look, he's a good speech giver. Nope, eh, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
No, No, I never found him to be that great.
I can't remember anything he said. Name something he said
other than like, if you like your doctor, you can
keep your doctor.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
That what I can name, Yeah, but what else? You know?
It worth thin?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Certainly like Okay, I'll give you that speech and say
like it was impressive in the room. But I would
wager that there's it's so shallow compared to what she
was doing. It's it And that's partly just because it's politics,
and it is it is less than talking about this
about mortality and faith and life and death. But I
(08:24):
think that one deserves a spot in the in the
history of American speeches in oratory for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And I mean she brought the house down when she
said she forgives Charlie's killer, which was it was like
a gut punch. I felt it so deeply when she
said that, how hard that must have been for her,
How hard it must be to say those words. And
how hard it must be to have that feeling. And I,
(08:53):
I don't know, it's just it's beyond my imagination.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Well, and she said right before or that the kind
and I have wondered if she was going there. She said,
the kind of young man that Charlie wanted to save
from this purposeless life, from anger, from feeling like there's
no path for you. That's exactly the kind of person
(09:17):
he was speaking to, right kind that took his life.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And then she went on to forgive him.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
And let's play that clip and we're gonna let it
breathe because it's like two minutes of her in standing
ovation and it is powerful.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
On the Cross, our Savior said, Father, forgive them, for
they not know what they do.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
That man, that young man, I forgive him.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
I forgive him because it was what Christ did.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And is what Charlie would do.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we
know from the Gospel is love and always love, love
for our enemies, and love for those who persecute us.
The world needs turning Point USA.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It needs a.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Group that will point young people away from the path
of misery and sin.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Wow, it's just breathtaking. The fact that she's taking over TPUSA, like,
I think they're in such good hands.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Well and she I thought she had so many interesting
messages and good, good messages for people who are looking
to have a good relationship or a good marriage. And
in the ways that she and Charlie tried to serve
each other, and you know, an admonition to Christian husbands
where she said, you know, it was a little bit
of a manosphere talk where she said, she's your wife,
is not your slaves, She's not your maid. You know,
(11:53):
this woman is very capable. Yeah, and she is. I
think the left might be end up being a little
dismayed that she she is not the handmaid that they.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Hope all of us are right right, Yeah, but wow,
I did so impressive.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
And despite the fact that Donald Trump spoke after her,
really the headline of the whole event. You know, it's
hard to outdo Trump, especially if he ends the night,
if he's the final card. But she really nailed it.
My kids watched with me, and I was unsure, like,
is that going to be too much? I let them
(12:29):
watch with me, and one of my kids just kept saying, preach.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You know which one.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I feel like, I know which one and then one of.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Them goes, Wow, she's awesome, and I was like, yeah, yeah,
she is, And I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You get to watch her in this moment.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
And for me, obviously it's a little bit of like
communicating my story to them without getting into row, you know,
getting too close to it that.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
By the way, last week.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Was the tenth anniversary of my husband his his passing,
So it's been odd to watch her do this, but
empowering to watch her do it and to be very
sure that she's very sure that God has things under control.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You were my hero before that, but just watching you
after it really showed you in a beautiful new light.
And I think you've been amazing just the way you
have the way you've handled it with your kids, the
way you've handled it in public. You do have a
lot of eyes on you, and I think it's harder
than most people must realize.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I do want to thank you so much, and I
also want to throw in thank you to Usha Vance,
who had great advice for Erica Kirk where she said,
this is like the last fifteen minutes of a flight
with your kids, where you have no idea how you're
going to get through it. And everybody's losing it, but
you're going to get through this fifteen minutes and then
you're going to get through the next fifteen minutes. And
when you said that about me, it reminded me of
those days, those early days, And that is such good
(13:55):
advice for anyone going through a crisis, that yes, you
don't know how you're going to get through the giant thing,
but you will get through the next fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And I loved how she put that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, Busha has been incredible. I thought j D's speech
was amazing. I thought Don Junior's speech was excellent. I
thought President Trump's speech was very, very, very good. Just
all around. I thought it was great.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Can I say they're ragging on Trump a little bit
and I get it because she said I forgive my enemies.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And he's like, definitely, I definitely don't.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But that's what you know, I don't want to be
like That's what I thought, also, like I don't. I
don't forgive my enemies.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
But okay, well, so what she was doing was like
super right, right, right, Oh, she's right.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know, we all go, Oh, I wish I could
do that. I want to be that. Yeah, it's very hard.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
He At first, I was like, look, Trump's going to
be Trump, right, So I knew that his speech was
not going to be Erica's speech. However, the part or
he says, I don't believe that about my enemies Charlie
would have. First of all, he's complimenting Charlie, which is
what you should do. Yeah, he's saying Charlie's a better
man than I, which is the thing you should do
(15:10):
at a memorial. He's complimenting Erica. He's being self deprecating
and saying I'm not this person. And he also says,
notably at the end, he says, but Erica, you can
keep trying right to make me that person, which, actually, yeah,
I saw somebody I think it was a bulwark person
tweeted today these two things can't coexist, and I'm like, actually.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
They need to be literally coexists.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
They co exist, and Erica talking to Trump is probably
the closest.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You get to turning that corner.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Absolutely, that's what our movement is, in some sense, what
any movement is.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. So the one miss of last night was obviously
Tucker Carlson. Look, I used to be a big Tucker fan,
both both personally and professionally back when he was a conservative,
whatever he is now, that's not a conservative. And I
think he's become really a leftist in so many ways.
I mean, look, his top issue is anti Israel, but
(16:10):
what's his second issue? Like, there isn't one. Yeah, it's
just grievance all the way down. I don't even want
to give him kind of the attention that he so
badly craves with this, But we're going to play the
clip just so you could hear the maniacal laughter at
the end and understand what the what kind of insanity
this man is fallen under.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
Ultimately, he was a Christian evangelist, and it actually reminds
me of my favorite story ever. So it's about two
thousand years ago in Jerusalem and Jesus shows up and
he starts talking about the people in power, and he
starts doing the worst thing that you can do, which
is telling the truth about people. And they hate it,
(16:54):
and they just go bonkers. They hate it, and they
become obsessed with making him stop. This guy's got to
stop talking. We've got to shut this guy up. And
I can just sort of picture the scene in a
lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around
eating hummus, thinking about what do we do about this
guy telling the truth about us. We must make him
stop talking. And there's always one guy with the bright idea,
(17:17):
and I can just hear him say I've got an idea.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Why don't we just kill him?
Speaker 6 (17:21):
That'll shut him up, that'll fix the problem. It doesn't
work that way.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
That's weird.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Yeah, And like, look, some people will be like, I
don't know, I didn't this is a dog whistle.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
That I don't hear.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And look, I get that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I'm looking to be fair to people.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, hummus eating Jerusalem residents sunds fairly noticeable to me.
And he's been going down this path. And there is
an open fight over Kirk's legacy, which is a proxy
for the conservative movement on the issue of Israel and
anti Semitism. In Candice Owens notably, I also do not
(18:07):
want to give attention to is trying to hijack Charlie's
story and say that he was coming to different conclusions
and it made him dangerous. And that is something that
Tucker is implying here, right.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Right, He's not just implying that he's implying that it
might have been Jews who killed him too. Look, look,
I'm also you know, I hate the whole dog whistle thing,
but the Nazis are real happy online today I came
across a whole nest of them on Instagram, where like
Tucker said it, he said it, he said it out loud.
He knew what he was doing. He's not sandis Al,
He's not. Oh, he's real smart. He's a smart guy
(18:45):
who knows exactly what he's saying. Look from the doerst perspective,
at least he admits that it was Jews in Jerusalem.
You know, the line now is the Jews have never
been in Jerusalem. This is all you know. We just
got there. So yeah, look, you know, I don't want
to give too much attention, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Well I was gonna say to me that the laugh
is to tell because he's saying, look, I'm doing this
kind of like edgy thing, and he cracks up at
the end.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You don't You don't crack up about Jesus being killed.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
No, you don't, right, But in this context, he realizes
he's saying something that's like he am I going to
get away with it, and that to me was the
moment that you go, oh, okay, I see what's going on.
And look, he said many other sensible things in his eulogy,
but like, this is someone's.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Because he's a smart guy who's not going to just
give you a Jew hating speech at Charlie Kirk's memorial.
He knows exactly what to do. So it's unfortunate. I'm
sad that he's gone down this path. I used to
really like him, and you know, well, now I just
see him for what he.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Is well, And it's tough because you watch somebody who
I used to like as well in respect in many ways.
And once you guys, you see figures who once they
latch on too anti Semitism as their sort of raisondetra.
It is in everything, and you can find it in everything,
and there's you know, of course, a nest of online
(20:13):
Nazis who will tell you that you're right about whatever,
whatever theory you want to bring to the table. And
it is it's hard to watch.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, it's tough, it really is, and you know, it's civilizationally,
it goes the same way I aciety. If a society
grabs onto anti Semitism, that society collapses. It's just part
of a package of decline. And I hope that conservatives
don't follow Tucker down this path. I have to say,
so far, they're not. Even with his massive audience. Conservatives
(20:44):
remain barely saying on Jews, barely saying on Israel. Could
it all change? Of course it could, and obviously conservative
Jews like me are worried about his influence. But for
now he is a periphery. He is the fringe.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah. Well, and I think the rest of that service,
because there were many words said, reflects the fact that
this is such a small part of it.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Nonetheless disappointing to see in that. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I know we're taking up your time with this podcast.
Takes some of your time, and watch the entire Erica kirkspeech.
I think you will see a generational force in our
not just politics, but in our culture emerging on that stage.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
We'll be right back with more on Normally. Welcome back
to Normally. Where the left is taking the Charlie Kirk
assassination in a totally new direction, which is obviously very bizarre.
They've become free speech absolutists with the Jimmy Kimmel firing,
(21:47):
but beyond that. For example, yesterday Destiny, the omni liberal
who was once considered the sane liberal that conservatives should
be having debates with, said this Charlie memorial is indistinguishable
from a Nazi rally, and fuck anyone who wants to
pretend it's not. And Eric Ericksson retweeted that and said,
(22:08):
the rally in which a widow forgave her husband's assassin.
They really, in so many ways have lost the plot
with this. What's been going on with the Jimmy Kimmel firing,
It's bananas to me. He lied about who the shooter was.
His bosses asked him to apologize, he refused, and now
(22:29):
he is suspended. That is an insane chain of events
to defend and to pretend that something about free speech
was going on here.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, he obviously lied.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
This is where I'm going to be easier than you
on the on the free speech the brand News for
free speech brigades, because I do think that Brendan Carr
should have shut his mouth.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Listen, if you.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Had shut his mouth, this man would have been out
of a job within a week and a half. Anyway, Arguably,
he might be ready erected because of Brendan Carr making
these implications and threats on the same day as ABC
had decided to deal with him disciplinarily right, and like
just just don't, just don't don't.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Also just the fact that it seemed like ABC was
using this as an excuse. I mean, he has said
vile things in the past, I mean really truly disgusting.
He blamed Republican politicians for school shootings, and then when
there was an outcry the next day, he was like,
I think that all your Republican voters are mad about
(23:33):
this because you know you're responsible too. He made sure
to draw the distinction between politicians and the voters and saying,
if you vote Republican, you're responsible for school shootings. He's
I never found him funny. I thought he was deeply
divisive and just lacked any humor whatsoever. Give that job
(23:54):
to date, Brigetzi watch the gratings.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Go out, and here's the thing is that, like, first
of all, I think they're full of the news free
speech folks. Obviously I actually agree with them about Carr
and also their enthusiasm for the cause of a millionaire
late night host versus the father of two, who was
shot through the neck for debating on campus, is very noticeable.
(24:20):
And my friend Jessica Tarloff, who I respect and enjoyed
debating with on Fox, said to a New York Times writer,
I believe today that like, it's not fair to say
that they care more about.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Kimmel than they do about Kirk. And I'm like, I
think it is. Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
And I noticed actually in several of the former Republicans
who became democrats' post Trump era, I followed all their
instagrams from like back in the day, and it was
no mention of Charlie.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Several posts about Kimmel.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
So look, I don't want to do the bean counting
all the time, but it was quite noticeable. And this
is the media has been so used to designating who
the correct victim is for so long, and they were
very uncomfortable with the idea of Charlie being a victim,
just as they were uncomfortable with the idea of Congressional
Republicans being victims when they were shot at in twenty seventeen.
(25:13):
And they wanted to move on another reason that like, morally,
I think it's wrong for the government to be job
owning people, but strategically wrong because you've made him into
this thing that he really wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
But I agree with you obviously, I think Carr shouldn't
have said anything and let this all play out. But
they're totally using this as an excuse.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I did not.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Believe them at all. I did not believe them that
they really think that the FCC was going to shut
down Jimmy Kimmel. No, Jimmy Kimmel upset his bosses. Everybody
knows how that goes. You know, when I teach my
kids about free speech, I tell them it doesn't include
telling your boss he's ugly. So like, that's how it goes.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
We can't live in a world where cancel culture is
like there is no point at which anyone is ever fired. Right,
Only lefties can do whatever they want, including wishing death
upon their neighbors broadcast on the internet, and they can
remain nurses and doctors and teachers like that.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
That does end up being a problem.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I would also like to note that while watching this
service and in consuming all of the vigils and all
that stuff that's happened in the twelve days since Charlie
Kirk's murder. I have heard endlessly about the foreboding nature
of the rights reaction to all of this, and yet
I just want to go through the actual facts real quick,
(26:41):
which is that the number of arrests that have happened
that have been ostensibly related to this have been a
vandalism in Arizona that was on a Charlie Kirk memorial
and an assault in Texas that was on a Charlie
Kirk mourner. The attempted bombing of a Fox News truck
(27:02):
by two men in Utah whose names were left out
of the coverage because it was very obvious that they
will of Middle Eastern descent, and so that was left
out of coverage. Now we have an ABC affiliate shot
up in California by a man who, by all accounts
(27:24):
and including his own online accounts, is a very develout
lefty who was mad at ABC about Jimmy Kimmel. Yeah,
and so I keep being told that we're dangerous, but
all the arrestable offenses from the left up on their
side of the ledger.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
And by the way, some people are doing really hard
work going through the actual studies of political violence and
just debunking so many of them.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
The data is just off the charts.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Bat Yeah. And the corresponding data to this is that
only ten percent of Democrats believe that Kirk's murder was
left wing. That's bananas. You live in a bubble that
is feeding you misinformation. And I don't know how to
get through these people. I really don't know. I have
(28:17):
British friends. I had an English friend who posted about Kimmel.
I'm like, do you know what's going on in your country? Like,
you know the stories we get about you guys, Kimmel.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
You know amazing.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
I also want I wanted to read one quick tweet
reflecting on the memorial, and he does it in a
nice way.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But this is a left of center person.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
He says, watching the Charlie Kirk memorial, I'm struck by
how extremely culturally distant I feel from this world. Everything
about it feels alien. The aesthetics, symbolism, music, rituals, mythology, gurus,
ideas and norms. It feels like being exposed to the
cultural and symbolic universe of a distant tribe. If I
reflect on this, it occurs to me that this feeling
must be symmetrical, that they must view the kind of
(28:57):
cultural universe I inhabit as similarly.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Alien in a strange way.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Despite opposing almost everything about this political project, this reflection
makes me feel more empathy for what that project must
feel like from the inside. He's a philosopher University of Sussex,
And no, it's not symmetrical at all.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
We know all about you.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We spend a lot of time with you guys.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, you guys won't shut up about it.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The cultural norms are forced upon us all the time. Hilarious,
he doesn't know that in his head.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Also, I find it so interesting that, yes, this was
a very specifically I think a little bit evangelical, megachurchy
feeling event and the pyrotechnics some people took issue with,
but obviously those were Charlie's kind of signature at these
events and so they wanted to.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
It's also a joyous event.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
It was supposed to be a celebration, which I know
can be jarring for people as well, but that's like
how the thing is done. It's interesting to me that
you would watch that and go this is weird, en off, putting,
in bad and the things these people are saying are ichy.
I really that one I have trouble. Yeah, I can't
(30:11):
put myself in your shoes.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Right, not at all. How are the lefties doing with
all this? I mean their poll numbers must be going up, right.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
More, coming up unnormally.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
But first, it was nearly two years ago that terrorists
murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and took two
hundred and fifty hostages.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Today it seems as if the cries of.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
The dead and dying had been drowned out by shouts
of anti Semitic hatred and the most brutal attack on
Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
It is the world looks away, a light shines in
the darkness.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
It's a movement of love and support for the people
of Israel called Flags of Fellowship, and it's organized by
the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And on October fifth,
just a few weeks away, millions across America will prayerfully
plant an Israeli flag and honor and solidarity with the
victims of October seventh, twenty twenty three and their grieving families.
And now you can be part of this movement too,
(31:02):
And I know you guys will want to get involved,
to get more information about how you can join the
Flags of Fellowship movement, visit the Fellowship online at IFCJ
dot org.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
That's if CJ dot org. We're back. But normally right
after this.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
We've talked a lot about the alleged Normy saviors running
for governorship gubernatorial races in the Democratic Party. So Mikey Cheryl,
a representative, is running up in New Jersey against Jack Chitdarelli.
I believe this is that's how I say this last name.
And then in Virginia we have a former representative Democrat,
(31:39):
Abigail Spamberger versus Winsome Seres, who is the Lieutenant governor
of Virginia. That's been kind of a hot race because
there's a lot of controversies going on in Northern Virginia schools.
But Mikey Cheryl's getting some exposure lately as well. And
she was on the Breakfast Club with Charlemagne, who, although
I disagree with him on a thousand things to me,
(32:02):
is one of the more interesting people who interviews politicians.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, because he does not fit the lines.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
He comes with them with unexpected stuff and he came
at Mikey Cheryl asking her about how she really amped
up her her worth while she was in Comnetre's here's
the question in her response, So.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
When news max claimed that you made seven million dollars
from stock trades, what are you talking about?
Speaker 8 (32:29):
News Max is, first of all a very questionable organization
that is paying multiple fines. I'm not sure what they're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Well, did you make seven million in stock trades at all?
I I haven't. I don't believe I did.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
But I'd have to go see what what that was
alluding to again, what kind of came from?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, you don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
She loved not impressive.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Not impressive.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Chita really also went after her on this on stage
at a debate, and she was similarly sort of caught
off guard and didn't really have an answer for it.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
These are basic things.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, really, New Jersey and Virginia. I just hope that
they do the right thing. These are two states where
I just feel like so many people are trying to
vote themselves to sanity and they just have people holding
them back.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Now, it's going to take work because these are purplish
to blue states.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
They just are.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Virginia in particular, has a lot of federal employees here
ticked off at doge who are energized. Spamberger is a
decent dish candidate, has been in the past one in
a swing district. But here she is finally getting asked
by Nick Monok, the local ABC affiliate reporter in Northern Virginia,
the tough question, the tough question about how she feels
(33:50):
about the gender policies that allowed a fifty something sex
offender to expose themselves multiple times to women in high
school bathrooms in Arlington Public schools. Whether she thinks those
policies are an issue and should be changed.
Speaker 7 (34:03):
Can you tell us directly, do you support biological males
who say they're women using women's locker rooms and bathrooms
and competing the women's sports.
Speaker 9 (34:13):
Well, the circumstance as this legal case plays out is
really one of we've had court cases settled or judged
here in Virginia in the fourth District, the former Gavin
Grim case related to bathroom usage, and in fact, the
argument is the assessment is there needs to be much
clearer guidance in terms of what is an executive orders
(34:35):
binding assessment of Title nind versus what has been a
decision of a court.
Speaker 7 (34:41):
But do you personally support these policies. You personally support them, everybody,
can you support these locker room or bathroom policies? Congresswomen?
Why can't you answer this question directly? Let's go congresswomen.
Congresse women, do you support these bathroom and locker rooms?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Thank you?
Speaker 7 (35:00):
Why can't you answer these questions directly?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
She ran away, Carol Sharan way, how could you be
not prepared for that?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
This is like the number one thing. By the way,
this is.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Again, this is they don't know anything about us.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Like Also, they don't get asked tough questions very often.
She gets asked.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
I think she got asked recently how to make her
banana bread recipe, like it's very light stuffed. Yeah, enocus
somebody who does have tough questions for Democratic candidates, He
asks her several times.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
She refuses to answer.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I ask you once again, how are they supposed to
be the normy saviors If they can't come out on
the eighty percent side of an eighty twenty issue, they.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Can't be and they shouldn't be. So Harry Aton had
some numbers and he sees things going not super great
for the Democrats and the midterms. He says, Republicans lead
by seven on the economy, lead by thirteen on immigration,
and on crime twenty two points. So yeah, look, I
(36:04):
want the Democrats to lose, but I also want a
normal country and I want them to be more normal.
And I don't know how they learned that lesson unless
they lose repeatedly on the issues that normal people care about.
Crime is an issue that it doesn't matter if you're
a Republican or Democrat, you should be against crime. And
(36:25):
the Democrats have found themselves defending criminals and saying crime
is not that bad. So if they can get to
a place of sanity, that would be ideal.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I think one of my concerns is that Virginia is
purple enough that she'll pull this off.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And I yeah, it doesn't have to be the case.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
The Winsome Sears campaign is working really hard, capitalized on
a bunch of stuff. But if they win that way
without her conceding on immigration, crime or gender issues, they're
going to continue to spin out.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
They're just I wouldn't adopting this approach, I think will No.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's not thanks for joining us on normally, I'm actually
going to read a Charlie Kirk tweet that went viral
again this weekend because I think it really sums up
what we all should be doing. Get married, have children,
build a legacy, pass down your values, pursue the eternal,
seek true joy. Eventually we will replace the nihilists. Thanks
(37:26):
for listening.
Hey guys, we are back on. Normally, the show with
It takes for when the news gets weird. I am
Mary catherin him.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Carol Marcolitz. How are you doing, Mary?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I'm all right.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
It's it's been quite a news cycle, weird as they come, sad,
hard to spend a lot of time in. And I
spent quite a bit of time yesterday, both on TV
and at home, watching the Charlie Kirk memorial service, which
took place in a giant.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Stadium in Arizona.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Hundreds of thousands of people there, many that had to
go to overflow because they could not get into the
actual arena, and just scores of speakers and beautiful tributes
and videos. And by the way, just as a you've
been a political operative in the past and someone who
has to put events together, a massive, incredible and nearly
(00:59):
flaw as far as I could tell, logistical event on
weeks notice while they were grieving their boss and friend.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
It's amazing. TPUSA deserves so much praise for it, and
just the event itself was really wonderful. I look, I'm Jewish.
I loved the Christian themes all the way through. I
thought that I loved that, just just a general talking
about God so openly and talking about faith so openly
(01:31):
if you just don't get that very often and in
a public setting, and this is what Charlie was all about.
I always, you know, after he passed, I tweeted that
one of my favorite things about him was his open faith.
When you would talk to him, it would be in
everything that he did, and said, I love that they
honored that for the most part. We'll get into the
(01:52):
rest of that.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yeah, I think, you know, I talked to somebody. I
can't remember if I mentioned it here, but I talked
to someone last week who was about my age, maybe older,
has teen or college age kids, and he said, you know,
I thought of Charlie as a political animal, which was
basically my impression of him. Although a fellow Christian, I
knew that, but my kids thought of him.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
As a faith leader.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
And I'm just saying, yeah, And I think that was
a shift he had very noticeably made. Again, I wasn't
the demo for all of his content, so I wasn't
always looking at it as much, and I somewhat regret
it now because I think I would have appreciated him
more while he was here. But yeah, I think there
was a shift in what he was doing, and you
(02:38):
saw that reflected in the celebration of his life, which
was a celebration of his faith and the fact that
his influence on people was in large part to make
them think about their own faith, to think about their
own purpose in this life, and to seek the Bible
(02:59):
and truth and Jesus, and that that would have been
the thing that made him most happy. And so I
think that very clearly reflected who he was, and there
were various parts that were beautiful and the I did
note and again the jibes with him being a faith
leader that five, six, seven, ten of the people I
(03:22):
watched speak just told the story of the Gospel. I
think Marco Rubio gave a ninety second explication of the
Gospel that was downright perfect and very passionate. You could
tell that Rubio really believes this. We really picked a winner,
and that guy back in the day, I love that guy.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I love that guy.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Various preachers who said the same thing avoided the thing
often that people do, which is to deify the person
who died instead of God, who you're actually talking about.
So I thought so much of that was beautiful. I
was on TV with Fox and trying not to listen
to the music too much because I knew I would
cry right if I got too involved in it.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
One of the things that I had heard in the
last few days was Dana lash tweeted to all of
the pastors who are not seizing what is a massive
revival and expanding on this in your churches. Why why
are you scared to talk about this? Why are you
not standing in the gap? This is the moment. I
think people really need to look at their churches. And
I'll tell you Dana tweeted that she left her church,
(04:28):
and I said, you know, I'm so sorry because the
Jewish experience is such that I have left many synagogues
in my life over stupid politics. And I think that
churches should seize this opportunity. It is a moment where
people are turning to their faith, and I think this
is such a great time for churches to grow their memberships,
(04:51):
to expand what people think about God. I think it's
a really, really important moment. And Charlie would have loved that.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, there's so much there's, of course, in fighting, as
there is any religion within Christianity, and Catholics versus Protestants,
but about how you live in a secular world as
a person of faith, and we all have different ways
of tackling it. And I grew up in a very
liberal place where I probably took on too much of
(05:22):
a light touch, like, oh, well, I don't want to
be too pushy, I don't want to be to this
or to that. And Charlie didn't really worry about that,
Like Charlie was just like, this is what I believe.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Now.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
I'm a person who has spoken about my faith in
public life, but it was specifically because I went through
tragedy in public life. I'm not sure I would have
talked about it as much had it not been necessary
for me in that moment. And I've certainly taken from
Charlie that I should just be more bold about it. Bold,
(05:52):
I think is the word for it. And I think
a lot of people are looking for churches that are
bold and serious, not churches.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
That are like, oh yeah, a little bit, just one second,
same a percynagogue'es same same, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
So at the end of this day, not quite the end,
because the president spoke after her, But Charlie Kirk's widow
Erica kirkk spoke and I want to give my strongest
recommendation that you sit down and watch the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I think it was about thirty minutes long, probably from
beginning to end.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
She is stunningly poised and strong, I would say from
someone who has been through something similar, although with fewer
eyes on me than she has. That is her faith
that is allowing her to do that. It is that
in and of.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Itself, is a testimony.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
She spoke to Robert Draper of The New York Times and, uh,
you know, everybody talks about Charlie faith, but her testimony
that this terrible thing happened to me and I don't
understand why, but God understands why, and I'm trusting him.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, that is some very powerful stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
And I don't think I'm prone to this type of
exaggeration or anything like that. So I was like gauging
my reaction to this speech. I think that that speech
belongs in American oratory.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Absolutely mystery.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
She was mesmerizing. She really was.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
To match a moment in that way perfectly and to
be so moving, I mean, you know's what's the last
speech that we talked about being part of the annals
of oratorical history in this country, probably like Barack Obama
bursts onto the scene at that DNC with red America,
Blue America.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Look, he's a good speech giver. Nope, eh, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
No, No, I never found him to be that great.
I can't remember anything he said. Name something he said
other than like, if you like your doctor, you can
keep your doctor.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
That what I can name, Yeah, but what else? You know?
It worth thin?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Certainly like Okay, I'll give you that speech and say
like it was impressive in the room. But I would
wager that there's it's so shallow compared to what she
was doing. It's it And that's partly just because it's politics,
and it is it is less than talking about this
about mortality and faith and life and death. But I
(08:24):
think that one deserves a spot in the in the
history of American speeches in oratory for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And I mean she brought the house down when she
said she forgives Charlie's killer, which was it was like
a gut punch. I felt it so deeply when she
said that, how hard that must have been for her,
How hard it must be to say those words. And
how hard it must be to have that feeling. And I,
(08:53):
I don't know, it's just it's beyond my imagination.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Well, and she said right before or that the kind
and I have wondered if she was going there. She said,
the kind of young man that Charlie wanted to save
from this purposeless life, from anger, from feeling like there's
no path for you. That's exactly the kind of person
(09:17):
he was speaking to, right kind that took his life.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And then she went on to forgive him.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
And let's play that clip and we're gonna let it
breathe because it's like two minutes of her in standing
ovation and it is powerful.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
On the Cross, our Savior said, Father, forgive them, for
they not know what they do.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
That man, that young man, I forgive him.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
I forgive him because it was what Christ did.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And is what Charlie would do.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we
know from the Gospel is love and always love, love
for our enemies, and love for those who persecute us.
The world needs turning Point USA.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It needs a.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Group that will point young people away from the path
of misery and sin.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Wow, it's just breathtaking. The fact that she's taking over TPUSA, like,
I think they're in such good hands.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Well and she I thought she had so many interesting
messages and good, good messages for people who are looking
to have a good relationship or a good marriage. And
in the ways that she and Charlie tried to serve
each other, and you know, an admonition to Christian husbands
where she said, you know, it was a little bit
of a manosphere talk where she said, she's your wife,
is not your slaves, She's not your maid. You know,
(11:53):
this woman is very capable. Yeah, and she is. I
think the left might be end up being a little
dismayed that she she is not the handmaid that they.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Hope all of us are right right, Yeah, but wow,
I did so impressive.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
And despite the fact that Donald Trump spoke after her,
really the headline of the whole event. You know, it's
hard to outdo Trump, especially if he ends the night,
if he's the final card. But she really nailed it.
My kids watched with me, and I was unsure, like,
is that going to be too much? I let them
(12:29):
watch with me, and one of my kids just kept saying, preach.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You know which one.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I feel like, I know which one and then one of.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Them goes, Wow, she's awesome, and I was like, yeah, yeah,
she is, And I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You get to watch her in this moment.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
And for me, obviously it's a little bit of like
communicating my story to them without getting into row, you know,
getting too close to it that.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
By the way, last week.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Was the tenth anniversary of my husband his his passing,
So it's been odd to watch her do this, but
empowering to watch her do it and to be very
sure that she's very sure that God has things under control.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You were my hero before that, but just watching you
after it really showed you in a beautiful new light.
And I think you've been amazing just the way you
have the way you've handled it with your kids, the
way you've handled it in public. You do have a
lot of eyes on you, and I think it's harder
than most people must realize.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I do want to thank you so much, and I
also want to throw in thank you to Usha Vance,
who had great advice for Erica Kirk where she said,
this is like the last fifteen minutes of a flight
with your kids, where you have no idea how you're
going to get through it. And everybody's losing it, but
you're going to get through this fifteen minutes and then
you're going to get through the next fifteen minutes. And
when you said that about me, it reminded me of
those days, those early days, And that is such good
(13:55):
advice for anyone going through a crisis, that yes, you
don't know how you're going to get through the giant thing,
but you will get through the next fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And I loved how she put that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, Busha has been incredible. I thought j D's speech
was amazing. I thought Don Junior's speech was excellent. I
thought President Trump's speech was very, very, very good. Just
all around. I thought it was great.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Can I say they're ragging on Trump a little bit
and I get it because she said I forgive my enemies.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And he's like, definitely, I definitely don't.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But that's what you know, I don't want to be
like That's what I thought, also, like I don't. I
don't forgive my enemies.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
But okay, well, so what she was doing was like
super right, right, right, Oh, she's right.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know, we all go, Oh, I wish I could
do that. I want to be that. Yeah, it's very hard.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
He At first, I was like, look, Trump's going to
be Trump, right, So I knew that his speech was
not going to be Erica's speech. However, the part or
he says, I don't believe that about my enemies Charlie
would have. First of all, he's complimenting Charlie, which is
what you should do. Yeah, he's saying Charlie's a better
man than I, which is the thing you should do
(15:10):
at a memorial. He's complimenting Erica. He's being self deprecating
and saying I'm not this person. And he also says,
notably at the end, he says, but Erica, you can
keep trying right to make me that person, which, actually, yeah,
I saw somebody I think it was a bulwark person
tweeted today these two things can't coexist, and I'm like, actually.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
They need to be literally coexists.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
They co exist, and Erica talking to Trump is probably
the closest.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
You get to turning that corner.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Absolutely, that's what our movement is, in some sense, what
any movement is.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. So the one miss of last night was obviously
Tucker Carlson. Look, I used to be a big Tucker fan,
both both personally and professionally back when he was a conservative,
whatever he is now, that's not a conservative. And I
think he's become really a leftist in so many ways.
I mean, look, his top issue is anti Israel, but
(16:10):
what's his second issue? Like, there isn't one. Yeah, it's
just grievance all the way down. I don't even want
to give him kind of the attention that he so
badly craves with this, But we're going to play the
clip just so you could hear the maniacal laughter at
the end and understand what the what kind of insanity
this man is fallen under.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
Ultimately, he was a Christian evangelist, and it actually reminds
me of my favorite story ever. So it's about two
thousand years ago in Jerusalem and Jesus shows up and
he starts talking about the people in power, and he
starts doing the worst thing that you can do, which
is telling the truth about people. And they hate it,
(16:54):
and they just go bonkers. They hate it, and they
become obsessed with making him stop. This guy's got to
stop talking. We've got to shut this guy up. And
I can just sort of picture the scene in a
lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around
eating hummus, thinking about what do we do about this
guy telling the truth about us. We must make him
stop talking. And there's always one guy with the bright idea,
(17:17):
and I can just hear him say I've got an idea.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Why don't we just kill him?
Speaker 6 (17:21):
That'll shut him up, that'll fix the problem. It doesn't
work that way.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
That's weird.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Yeah, And like, look, some people will be like, I
don't know, I didn't this is a dog whistle.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
That I don't hear.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And look, I get that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I'm looking to be fair to people.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, hummus eating Jerusalem residents sunds fairly noticeable to me.
And he's been going down this path. And there is
an open fight over Kirk's legacy, which is a proxy
for the conservative movement on the issue of Israel and
anti Semitism. In Candice Owens notably, I also do not
(18:07):
want to give attention to is trying to hijack Charlie's
story and say that he was coming to different conclusions
and it made him dangerous. And that is something that
Tucker is implying here, right.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Right, He's not just implying that he's implying that it
might have been Jews who killed him too. Look, look,
I'm also you know, I hate the whole dog whistle thing,
but the Nazis are real happy online today I came
across a whole nest of them on Instagram, where like
Tucker said it, he said it, he said it out loud.
He knew what he was doing. He's not sandis Al,
He's not. Oh, he's real smart. He's a smart guy
(18:45):
who knows exactly what he's saying. Look from the doerst perspective,
at least he admits that it was Jews in Jerusalem.
You know, the line now is the Jews have never
been in Jerusalem. This is all you know. We just
got there. So yeah, look, you know, I don't want
to give too much attention, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Well I was gonna say to me that the laugh
is to tell because he's saying, look, I'm doing this
kind of like edgy thing, and he cracks up at
the end.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You don't You don't crack up about Jesus being killed.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
No, you don't, right, But in this context, he realizes
he's saying something that's like he am I going to
get away with it, and that to me was the
moment that you go, oh, okay, I see what's going on.
And look, he said many other sensible things in his eulogy,
but like, this is someone's.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Because he's a smart guy who's not going to just
give you a Jew hating speech at Charlie Kirk's memorial.
He knows exactly what to do. So it's unfortunate. I'm
sad that he's gone down this path. I used to
really like him, and you know, well, now I just
see him for what he.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Is well, And it's tough because you watch somebody who
I used to like as well in respect in many ways.
And once you guys, you see figures who once they
latch on too anti Semitism as their sort of raisondetra.
It is in everything, and you can find it in everything,
and there's you know, of course, a nest of online
(20:13):
Nazis who will tell you that you're right about whatever,
whatever theory you want to bring to the table. And
it is it's hard to watch.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, it's tough, it really is, and you know, it's civilizationally,
it goes the same way I aciety. If a society
grabs onto anti Semitism, that society collapses. It's just part
of a package of decline. And I hope that conservatives
don't follow Tucker down this path. I have to say,
so far, they're not. Even with his massive audience. Conservatives
(20:44):
remain barely saying on Jews, barely saying on Israel. Could
it all change? Of course it could, and obviously conservative
Jews like me are worried about his influence. But for
now he is a periphery. He is the fringe.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah. Well, and I think the rest of that service,
because there were many words said, reflects the fact that
this is such a small part of it.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Nonetheless disappointing to see in that. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I know we're taking up your time with this podcast.
Takes some of your time, and watch the entire Erica kirkspeech.
I think you will see a generational force in our
not just politics, but in our culture emerging on that stage.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
We'll be right back with more on Normally. Welcome back
to Normally. Where the left is taking the Charlie Kirk
assassination in a totally new direction, which is obviously very bizarre.
They've become free speech absolutists with the Jimmy Kimmel firing,
(21:47):
but beyond that. For example, yesterday Destiny, the omni liberal
who was once considered the sane liberal that conservatives should
be having debates with, said this Charlie memorial is indistinguishable
from a Nazi rally, and fuck anyone who wants to
pretend it's not. And Eric Ericksson retweeted that and said,
(22:08):
the rally in which a widow forgave her husband's assassin.
They really, in so many ways have lost the plot
with this. What's been going on with the Jimmy Kimmel firing,
It's bananas to me. He lied about who the shooter was.
His bosses asked him to apologize, he refused, and now
(22:29):
he is suspended. That is an insane chain of events
to defend and to pretend that something about free speech
was going on here.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, he obviously lied.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
This is where I'm going to be easier than you
on the on the free speech the brand News for
free speech brigades, because I do think that Brendan Carr
should have shut his mouth.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Listen, if you.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Had shut his mouth, this man would have been out
of a job within a week and a half. Anyway, Arguably,
he might be ready erected because of Brendan Carr making
these implications and threats on the same day as ABC
had decided to deal with him disciplinarily right, and like
just just don't, just don't don't.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Also just the fact that it seemed like ABC was
using this as an excuse. I mean, he has said
vile things in the past, I mean really truly disgusting.
He blamed Republican politicians for school shootings, and then when
there was an outcry the next day, he was like,
I think that all your Republican voters are mad about
(23:33):
this because you know you're responsible too. He made sure
to draw the distinction between politicians and the voters and saying,
if you vote Republican, you're responsible for school shootings. He's
I never found him funny. I thought he was deeply
divisive and just lacked any humor whatsoever. Give that job
(23:54):
to date, Brigetzi watch the gratings.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Go out, and here's the thing is that, like, first
of all, I think they're full of the news free
speech folks. Obviously I actually agree with them about Carr
and also their enthusiasm for the cause of a millionaire
late night host versus the father of two, who was
shot through the neck for debating on campus, is very noticeable.
(24:20):
And my friend Jessica Tarloff, who I respect and enjoyed
debating with on Fox, said to a New York Times writer,
I believe today that like, it's not fair to say
that they care more about.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Kimmel than they do about Kirk. And I'm like, I
think it is. Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
And I noticed actually in several of the former Republicans
who became democrats' post Trump era, I followed all their
instagrams from like back in the day, and it was
no mention of Charlie.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Several posts about Kimmel.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
So look, I don't want to do the bean counting
all the time, but it was quite noticeable. And this
is the media has been so used to designating who
the correct victim is for so long, and they were
very uncomfortable with the idea of Charlie being a victim,
just as they were uncomfortable with the idea of Congressional
Republicans being victims when they were shot at in twenty seventeen.
(25:13):
And they wanted to move on another reason that like, morally,
I think it's wrong for the government to be job
owning people, but strategically wrong because you've made him into
this thing that he really wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
But I agree with you obviously, I think Carr shouldn't
have said anything and let this all play out. But
they're totally using this as an excuse.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I did not.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Believe them at all. I did not believe them that
they really think that the FCC was going to shut
down Jimmy Kimmel. No, Jimmy Kimmel upset his bosses. Everybody
knows how that goes. You know, when I teach my
kids about free speech, I tell them it doesn't include
telling your boss he's ugly. So like, that's how it goes.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
We can't live in a world where cancel culture is
like there is no point at which anyone is ever fired. Right,
Only lefties can do whatever they want, including wishing death
upon their neighbors broadcast on the internet, and they can
remain nurses and doctors and teachers like that.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
That does end up being a problem.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
I would also like to note that while watching this
service and in consuming all of the vigils and all
that stuff that's happened in the twelve days since Charlie
Kirk's murder. I have heard endlessly about the foreboding nature
of the rights reaction to all of this, and yet
I just want to go through the actual facts real quick,
(26:41):
which is that the number of arrests that have happened
that have been ostensibly related to this have been a
vandalism in Arizona that was on a Charlie Kirk memorial
and an assault in Texas that was on a Charlie
Kirk mourner. The attempted bombing of a Fox News truck
(27:02):
by two men in Utah whose names were left out
of the coverage because it was very obvious that they
will of Middle Eastern descent, and so that was left
out of coverage. Now we have an ABC affiliate shot
up in California by a man who, by all accounts
(27:24):
and including his own online accounts, is a very develout
lefty who was mad at ABC about Jimmy Kimmel. Yeah,
and so I keep being told that we're dangerous, but
all the arrestable offenses from the left up on their
side of the ledger.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
And by the way, some people are doing really hard
work going through the actual studies of political violence and
just debunking so many of them.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
The data is just off the charts.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Bat Yeah. And the corresponding data to this is that
only ten percent of Democrats believe that Kirk's murder was
left wing. That's bananas. You live in a bubble that
is feeding you misinformation. And I don't know how to
get through these people. I really don't know. I have
(28:17):
British friends. I had an English friend who posted about Kimmel.
I'm like, do you know what's going on in your country? Like,
you know the stories we get about you guys, Kimmel.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
You know amazing.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
I also want I wanted to read one quick tweet
reflecting on the memorial, and he does it in a
nice way.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
But this is a left of center person.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
He says, watching the Charlie Kirk memorial, I'm struck by
how extremely culturally distant I feel from this world. Everything
about it feels alien. The aesthetics, symbolism, music, rituals, mythology, gurus,
ideas and norms. It feels like being exposed to the
cultural and symbolic universe of a distant tribe. If I
reflect on this, it occurs to me that this feeling
must be symmetrical, that they must view the kind of
(28:57):
cultural universe I inhabit as similarly.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Alien in a strange way.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Despite opposing almost everything about this political project, this reflection
makes me feel more empathy for what that project must
feel like from the inside. He's a philosopher University of Sussex,
And no, it's not symmetrical at all.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
We know all about you.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We spend a lot of time with you guys.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, you guys won't shut up about it.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The cultural norms are forced upon us all the time. Hilarious,
he doesn't know that in his head.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Also, I find it so interesting that, yes, this was
a very specifically I think a little bit evangelical, megachurchy
feeling event and the pyrotechnics some people took issue with,
but obviously those were Charlie's kind of signature at these
events and so they wanted to.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
It's also a joyous event.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
It was supposed to be a celebration, which I know
can be jarring for people as well, but that's like
how the thing is done. It's interesting to me that
you would watch that and go this is weird, en off, putting,
in bad and the things these people are saying are ichy.
I really that one I have trouble. Yeah, I can't
(30:11):
put myself in your shoes.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Right, not at all. How are the lefties doing with
all this? I mean their poll numbers must be going up, right.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
More, coming up unnormally.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
But first, it was nearly two years ago that terrorists
murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and took two
hundred and fifty hostages.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Today it seems as if the cries of.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
The dead and dying had been drowned out by shouts
of anti Semitic hatred and the most brutal attack on
Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
It is the world looks away, a light shines in
the darkness.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
It's a movement of love and support for the people
of Israel called Flags of Fellowship, and it's organized by
the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And on October fifth,
just a few weeks away, millions across America will prayerfully
plant an Israeli flag and honor and solidarity with the
victims of October seventh, twenty twenty three and their grieving families.
And now you can be part of this movement too,
(31:02):
And I know you guys will want to get involved,
to get more information about how you can join the
Flags of Fellowship movement, visit the Fellowship online at IFCJ
dot org.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
That's if CJ dot org. We're back. But normally right
after this.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
We've talked a lot about the alleged Normy saviors running
for governorship gubernatorial races in the Democratic Party. So Mikey Cheryl,
a representative, is running up in New Jersey against Jack Chitdarelli.
I believe this is that's how I say this last name.
And then in Virginia we have a former representative Democrat,
(31:39):
Abigail Spamberger versus Winsome Seres, who is the Lieutenant governor
of Virginia. That's been kind of a hot race because
there's a lot of controversies going on in Northern Virginia schools.
But Mikey Cheryl's getting some exposure lately as well. And
she was on the Breakfast Club with Charlemagne, who, although
I disagree with him on a thousand things to me,
(32:02):
is one of the more interesting people who interviews politicians.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, because he does not fit the lines.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
He comes with them with unexpected stuff and he came
at Mikey Cheryl asking her about how she really amped
up her her worth while she was in Comnetre's here's
the question in her response, So.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
When news max claimed that you made seven million dollars
from stock trades, what are you talking about?
Speaker 8 (32:29):
News Max is, first of all a very questionable organization
that is paying multiple fines. I'm not sure what they're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Well, did you make seven million in stock trades at all?
I I haven't. I don't believe I did.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
But I'd have to go see what what that was
alluding to again, what kind of came from?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, you don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
She loved not impressive.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Not impressive.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Chita really also went after her on this on stage
at a debate, and she was similarly sort of caught
off guard and didn't really have an answer for it.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
These are basic things.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, really, New Jersey and Virginia. I just hope that
they do the right thing. These are two states where
I just feel like so many people are trying to
vote themselves to sanity and they just have people holding
them back.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Now, it's going to take work because these are purplish
to blue states.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
They just are.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Virginia in particular, has a lot of federal employees here
ticked off at doge who are energized. Spamberger is a
decent dish candidate, has been in the past one in
a swing district. But here she is finally getting asked
by Nick Monok, the local ABC affiliate reporter in Northern Virginia,
the tough question, the tough question about how she feels
(33:50):
about the gender policies that allowed a fifty something sex
offender to expose themselves multiple times to women in high
school bathrooms in Arlington Public schools. Whether she thinks those
policies are an issue and should be changed.
Speaker 7 (34:03):
Can you tell us directly, do you support biological males
who say they're women using women's locker rooms and bathrooms
and competing the women's sports.
Speaker 9 (34:13):
Well, the circumstance as this legal case plays out is
really one of we've had court cases settled or judged
here in Virginia in the fourth District, the former Gavin
Grim case related to bathroom usage, and in fact, the
argument is the assessment is there needs to be much
clearer guidance in terms of what is an executive orders
(34:35):
binding assessment of Title nind versus what has been a
decision of a court.
Speaker 7 (34:41):
But do you personally support these policies. You personally support them, everybody,
can you support these locker room or bathroom policies? Congresswomen?
Why can't you answer this question directly? Let's go congresswomen.
Congresse women, do you support these bathroom and locker rooms?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Thank you?
Speaker 7 (35:00):
Why can't you answer these questions directly?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
She ran away, Carol Sharan way, how could you be
not prepared for that?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
This is like the number one thing. By the way,
this is.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Again, this is they don't know anything about us.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Like Also, they don't get asked tough questions very often.
She gets asked.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
I think she got asked recently how to make her
banana bread recipe, like it's very light stuffed. Yeah, enocus
somebody who does have tough questions for Democratic candidates, He
asks her several times.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
She refuses to answer.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I ask you once again, how are they supposed to
be the normy saviors If they can't come out on
the eighty percent side of an eighty twenty issue, they.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Can't be and they shouldn't be. So Harry Aton had
some numbers and he sees things going not super great
for the Democrats and the midterms. He says, Republicans lead
by seven on the economy, lead by thirteen on immigration,
and on crime twenty two points. So yeah, look, I
(36:04):
want the Democrats to lose, but I also want a
normal country and I want them to be more normal.
And I don't know how they learned that lesson unless
they lose repeatedly on the issues that normal people care about.
Crime is an issue that it doesn't matter if you're
a Republican or Democrat, you should be against crime. And
(36:25):
the Democrats have found themselves defending criminals and saying crime
is not that bad. So if they can get to
a place of sanity, that would be ideal.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I think one of my concerns is that Virginia is
purple enough that she'll pull this off.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And I yeah, it doesn't have to be the case.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
The Winsome Sears campaign is working really hard, capitalized on
a bunch of stuff. But if they win that way
without her conceding on immigration, crime or gender issues, they're
going to continue to spin out.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
They're just I wouldn't adopting this approach, I think will No.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's not thanks for joining us on normally, I'm actually
going to read a Charlie Kirk tweet that went viral
again this weekend because I think it really sums up
what we all should be doing. Get married, have children,
build a legacy, pass down your values, pursue the eternal,
seek true joy. Eventually we will replace the nihilists. Thanks
(37:26):
for listening.
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