October 8, 2024 • 27 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz discuss the anniversary of October 7th, 2023, reflecting on its impact and the reactions it elicited. They analyze Kamala Harris's recent media strategy and her handling of complex political issues, particularly regarding Israel and Palestine. They also touch on the challenges of public speaking for politicians, concerns about the First Amendment, and the shifting stigma around political support. Finally, they explore the difficulties of maintaining personal relationships across political divides, emphasizing the importance of grace and understanding. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, and welcome to normally the show with normalist
takes for when the news gets weird in its selection
year so it always feels weird. I am Mary Katherine
Ham and.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Carol Markuitz.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Well, what do we have going on today? I do
want to note before we start that it is, of
course the anniversary week of October seventh, twenty twenty three,
and I want to commend Carol and I if you're
watching our video clips, both have our is really themed
shirts on yours just better an iron Dome T shirt.
(00:31):
But I just wanted to commend to you guys from
Carol's substack some writing about people's reaction to October seventh
over the past year and people who have been disappointing,
And by the way, thank you for the shout out.
I do feel so well deserved.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I mean you have been incredible. I feel so grateful
for you. I just I love the people that I'm
surrounded with, and I have never felt better about those
people than in the last year.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, I think it's it's been strange because I think
it was the easiest moral test to pass, which then
makes me more disturbed that many did not. And I
think that's what a lot of people dealt with post
October seventh, and Carol and I traveled to Israel together,
and it's just so hard to even comprehend what happened
(01:21):
that day to this day and will be forever probably,
But I wanted to note that so you guys can read.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Carol's thank you Mane before we.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Get to the nitty gritty of the politics news, which
actually Kamala Harris Vice President. Kamala Harris has changed her
tack when it comes to dealing with media. She is
doing a big media blitz by her standards this week,
sixty minutes a podcast call Her Daddy, a very popular
(01:54):
podcast with young women. She's doing the View, she's doing Colbert,
she's doing Howard Stern. So this is like about as
much as it gets for Kamala Harris. And let's just
start with the most serious one, which is a sixty
minutes interview in which she gives this answer about policy
toward Israel Prime Minister Netanya, who is not listening.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, Bill.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
The work that we have done has resulted in a
number of movements in that region by Israel that were
very much prompted by or a result of many things,
including our advocacy for what needs to happen in the region.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I would say that's the only serious one that she's doing.
And it's interesting, you know, there's always this idea that
you can separate a leader that you don't like from
a country that you say that you are an ally with.
But I think that people need to understand that there's
not a single Israeli leader who would be doing anything
(03:00):
differently today than Benjaminette Now who's doing it. There are
leaders who would be probably more brutal. There are leaders
who would probably be doing more, for example, Now, who's
often criticized in Israel from the right for evacuating the
North because how could you give up anything, How could
you let, you know, show any fear, how could you
(03:21):
let any wins happen? So I think people need to
get that. And it's a parsing that Kamala Harris has
to do in order to have Michigan in play, and
it's really kind of gross.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
What I'm struck by is well, a couple things in
this answer one and we'll play another one that reflects
this as well, but the fact that she often doesn't
seem to really even clock the questions she's asked. It's
very clear, and look, a lot of politicians do this.
There's just a deck in her head and she's going
to the deck. But hers is much more rigid than
(03:56):
most people.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Shallow.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, that too, and Israel in particular, she and Walls,
and often the Biden administration seem not in touch with
actual reality on the ground, for instance, when they always
bring up a two state solution. I know when you
and I were there, Carol, were standing in Cafarazzo, which
was hit very hard in the burnt ruins of much
(04:19):
of this community. We're standing with a man who has
moved back in very shortly after October seventh, is perhaps
among the demographic most committed to peace, absolutely gods and neighbors,
because that's why the community was there, right, And he's
telling us this is two generations away at best, even considering.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, they killed all the peacenicks like that. That's what
I think people need to get the kids dancing at
these festivals, those of people most likely to want peace
with a potential Palestinian state. You know, hersh Goldberg, he
had a sign in his bedroom that Jerusalem is for all,
and they killed this mayor who was activist and a
(05:04):
big time peace activist in these kibbutz's murdered him. I mean,
they literally killed the only demographic, not the only, but
the demographic who mostly would have supported this and so.
And the thing is that the Palestinians have not wanted
a state. They have been really, really open and blunt
about this, even you know every day Palestinians that you
(05:25):
hear from the goal is the destruction of Israel. And
if I think if the pro Palestinians in the West
cared about those Palestinians, they would say, that's never going
to happen. How do we move forward from this with
you accepting that Israel exists?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That yes, that would actually deal with reality on the ground, right,
which is what I wish the Vice President could communicate
that she understands a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But I do.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I feel like if they're stuck in this sort of
Georgetown symposium about the two state solutions from like fifteen
years ago, right, and that's not what's actually happening.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I'll just add one more thing that if anybody recalls
AOC when she first became a congresswoman, gave an interview
where She also had a very shallow understanding of anything,
and she ended up giggling and saying I'm not a
midd East expert, which, yeah, we know. But one of
the things that she got in trouble for is that
she said she was for the two state solution. Because
(06:25):
that used to be the liberal point of view. That
is no longer acceptable on the American left. Forget about Palestinians,
forget about Hamas, forget about like, you know, the real
crazies in that region we're talking. American congresswoman had to
basically walk back her support of the two state solution.
Kamala Harris is pushing this idea with nobody to accept it.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, I want to play another clip from Kamala's
sixty minutes. As you say, the only serious interview. Look,
people are welcome to do friendly interview. Hers is a
ratio problem, right, She's going on with the view Colbert
Howard Stern, I think, all of which have literally endorsed
her love. Yeah, I believe. So that's not exactly tough. Fine,
(07:14):
but her ratio is very low of doing tough interviews
to not tough because she doesn't do interviews. So let's
play the sixty minutes question where she's asked about how
her economic plan actually could come to be.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
My plan is about saying that when you invest in
small businesses, you invest in the middle class, and you
strengthen America's economy. Small businesses are part of the backbone
of America's economy.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But pardon me that, Advice President. The question was, how
are you going to pay for it?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Well, one of the things that I'm going to make
sure that the richest among us who can afford it,
pay their fair share in taxes. It is not right
that teachers and nurses and firefighters are paying a higher
tax rate than billionaires and the biggest corporations. And I
plan on making that fair.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
But we're dealing with the real world here.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But the real world includes how are you going to
get this through Congress? You know, when you talk quietly
with a lot of folks in Congress, they know exactly
what I'm talking about because their constituents know exactly what
I'm talking about. Their constituents are those firefighters and teachers
and nurses.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It's funny that she gets this pushback, right, It's like
she wasn't even prepared for this. How do you pay
for it, How do you pass it through Congress? This
is like the basics. She just always seems like the
kid who is really smart and doesn't do their homework
and things. They could talk their way out of it,
but she can't talk her way out of it. So
(08:49):
maybe the kid isn't as smart as they think they are.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, I'm not surprised by her answers at this point. Frankly,
I have trouble watching them, just as a I have
a physiological embarrassment that happens when we watch these clips.
But yes, she's again. I appreciate the follow up. The
follow up is what always sort of nails her because
she has not thought past the deck in her head.
(09:14):
And if we can indulge us for one last clip,
can we play the thirty two days clip from her
stump speech where the teleprompter went off. Apparently it fails,
and this is what we get.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Remember his number thirty two today, we got thirty two
days until the election, So thirty two days, thirty two days, Okay,
we got some business to do.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
We got some business to do, all right, thirty two days,
and we know we will do it. And this is
gonna be a very tight race. Until the very end.
This is gonna be a very tight race until the
(10:09):
very end.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We are the underdog and we know we have some
hard work ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Oh that's so awkward. I find that's so difficult to watch.
I'm so I can't do awkward. And that was tough.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's really tough. It's like an endurance event.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Plus, it's a stump speech. It's not like a great
policy speech that she's only given one time. It's a
stump speech. She should be able to like wing at
least some of it. Look, I'm a when I give
a speech, I have notes, I'm not a. My memory
just isn't what it used to be, and there's no
way I could just wing it. I get it, but
not have anything to say other than repeating thirty two days'
(10:46):
super awkward.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I feel like I understand that I probably put too
much emphasis on public speaking, as that is my thing
that I do, and I am decent at extipporatius speaking. Okay,
so that's stipulated. I find her remarkable because she's been
practicing for like decades. And this is where we are
real quick. Why do you think they're changing strategies? What
(11:10):
are they seeing that's making them switch. Tim Walls was
on Fox News this weekend.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, that was interesting. I was actually impressed that they
were at least doing one interview with Fox because all
these other interviews are so softball. I actually want to say, well,
I'll get to that in a second, but I do
think that they're switching because they think Kamala should be
running away with this and she's very much not. I
think if the election is held tomorrow, donald Trump wins,
and I think that they know that. Yeah, they're tied
(11:37):
in all these states, but they count on Donald Trump
voters not being open about it to pollsters. He's going
to pull you know, one percent two percent above where
he's polling in these states, and that's a Donald Trump win.
So they're trying to reverse momentum. I would say also
that I think they call her daddy interview. She's getting
(11:57):
a lot of flak from the Republicans on it could
have been really good for her, but she didn't do
it right. And here's the thing. I have never watched
call her daddy the whole thing, but I come across
the clips of Alex Cooper and having these conversations, and
she's always like in a hoodie, which she was yesterday,
but a hoodie with heels, and she got her legs crossed,
and it's kind of like just like two girls hitty up. Yeah,
(12:20):
she could have leaned into that and had a real
conversation where Americans got to see her. Instead, they got
mired down in the abortion question again, and they had
to lie about where Donald Trump is on abortion because
he's actually barely moderate to the you know, the dismay
of people on the right who don't like that, and
I get it, but she didn't play it correctly. Had
(12:44):
she kind of gone in there and done a call
her Daddy interview where she was more casual, I think
that really could have done something for her. But she's
so buttoned up and so afraid to let loose that
they just couldn't get her to do it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I think that cuts to the problem she's running into.
Is that again and again, no matter how much they
put her out there, even in a situation like that,
what you find out is that she can't have a conversation, right.
That's what we find out every single time, even a
chatty girl talk conversation, and that's something that makes voters uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
That's exactly right. And it reminded me that Donald Trump
went on THEO vonn and had kind of a long ranging,
wide ranging conversation about all kinds of things that could
have been it for her with women, and she didn't
take that opportunity to do that. So, yeah, Kamala Harris
(13:41):
not that great of the talking.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Or the governing. But you know, we'll see about.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The vote thing at a time, Mary Catherine.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, So that leads.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Us into the fact that Democrats have decided that the
First Amendment is a problem. Maybe this is what their
plan is to get Kamala Harris to stop with all
the talk talking. Let's play the first clip John Kerry
on the First Amendment.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
And I think the dislike of and anguish over social
media is just growing and growing and growing, and it's
part of our problem, particularly in democracies, in terms of
building consensus around any issue. It's really hard to govern today.
You can't you know, you know, there's no the referees
(14:27):
we used to have to determine what's the fact and
what is in the fact that kind of been eviscerated
to a certain degree, and people go and that people
self select where they go for their news. Or for
their information, and then you just get into a vicious cycle.
So it's really really hard, much harder to build consensus
today than at any time in the forty five fifty
(14:50):
years I've been involved in this. And you know, there's
a lot of discussion now about how you curb those
entities in order to guarantee that you're going to have,
you know, some accountability in facts, et cetera. But look,
if people go to only one source and the source
they go to is sick and you know, as an
(15:12):
agenda and they're putting out disinformation, our First Amendment stands
as a major block to the ability to be able
to just you know, hammer it out of existence. So
what you need, what we need is to is to
win the ground, win the right to govern by hopefully
having you know, winning enough votes that you're free to
(15:34):
be able to implement change. Obviously, there are some people
in our country who are prepared to implement change in
other ways, and that's where we're really Democracy can survive
on writing, I think democracies are very challenged right now
(15:55):
and have not proven they can move fast enough or
big enough to deal with the challenges that we are facing.
And to me, that is part of what this race,
this election is all about. Will we break the fever
in the United States?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So the First Amendment is a problem in democracy, is
Mary Catherine? What do we think of that?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I mean, three cheers for the First Amendment. He's at
some international confab as usual, where you know, all the
other those confabs, I know, all the other cool countries
get to arrest people when they tweet mean things, but
not in this country. And unfortunately, many of our liberal
elites find this to be a problem. I find that
to be disturbing, and it's disturbing that not that many
(16:37):
people find it disturbing these days. Yeah, people are very
comfortable with this kind of rhetoric about the First Amendment
because to them, they just go, well, just a bad
info will be gone, right, That's not how it works.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Friends, that we said this during the last episode, you know,
the whole screaming fire in a theater, your your pet peeve.
But Tim Walls was trying to say during the debate
that hate speech does not qualify on your First Amendment.
He was kind of drowned out, but he kept saying,
not hate speech, not hate speech. Yeah, hate speech. Hate
speech is also covered under the First Amendment. We used
(17:13):
to understand that, and now it seems that the Democrats
are trying to will into existence the fact that you
can't say whatever you want and we don't have that
right here, and it's really a problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Well, I think we have another clip of none other
than Hillary Clinton. I believe she's speaking to Michael Smercanish
on CNN, and she has this to say about social
media and if.
Speaker 7 (17:38):
The platforms, whether it's Facebook or Twitter, X or Instagram
or TikTok, whatever they are, if they don't moderate and
monitor the content, we lose total control. And it's not
just the social and psychological effects, it's real harm.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
They lose control, We lose control, Carol.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It does seem like they are afraid of losing control.
And I'm glad that she said that out loud, because
that's what we say to each other. They're afraid of
losing control, and here she comes to say, yeah, yeah,
we're afraid of losing control. I would also say that
this relates to the fact that Elon Musk gets such
attack from the left for being a Trump supporter. They're saying, well,
(18:22):
how could he have X be an impartial platform while
supporting one of the candidates. All of the people who
have ever worked for X owned X supported one of
the candidates. They just maybe weren't quite as open as
he is about it. I think that's another thing that
Democrats kind of don't understand is that we all have opinions.
(18:45):
We know you have opinions. The whole thing is that
you're lying about the fact that you don't have.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
An opinion well, and that the more you favor people
with the opinions you don't agree with having free reign,
the better we were able to actually get to the
bottom of things. That's what. The other thing that I
actually like how the Trump campaign has started framing this
(19:10):
as a threat to democracy to sort of echo, Okay,
you say that we're a threat, we say that you're
a threat in this way, which I actually a lot
of double hater voters are probably evaluating their vote this way,
like which of you guys is a bigger threst. So
Trump fans is saying, Okay, let's talk about the freedom
of speech issue. You guys clearly don't understand it to
(19:30):
the point of probably disliking the First Amendment and wanting
to change it. The Biden administration had a disinformation board.
The Biden administration has actively censored American citizens during COVID
so that we could not get real answers to real questions.
And those things do add up. Oh, they also censored,
(19:51):
like the entire media for the Hunter Biden story, right,
which the media doesn't even care about. Yeah, because they
were happy to do it. So those things are a threat.
And to hear really powerful people talk about how they
can't control Elon Musk makes me go, yeh, go Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That's right. Yeah, I mean, look, call me back. When
Elon Musk doesn't let you send a link to an
article that he doesn't like, which was the case before
Elon Musk took over. You not only couldn't access the
New York Post Twitter account at the time, you also
couldn't text or DM that link to your friend. You
(20:31):
couldn't share it at all. I'm sorry that was such
an overstep that, like anything that they say now about
Elon Musk, Yeah, he supports Donald Trump. And believe me
that the other CEOs you know, of all the other
media companies have supported who they've supported, almost always Democrats,
and they have acted accordingly. And he isn't so I'm
(20:51):
grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah. By the way, do you think some sort of
stigma is falling a bit because the actor Zachary Levi
came out as a Trump supporter last okay, he was
the star of Chuck, which was like a sort of
spy guy comic book type sitcom, and then he actually
went into the Marble universe as one of the lesser characters.
(21:14):
But Shazam in the Marvel universe, he came out as
a Trump supporter. And then I saw a picture of
Dana Kapatrick with a woman for Trump jacket on.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I didn't know Danna Kakpatrick was a Trump supporter, but
she was with Sage Steele wearing this jacket, and I thought,
between Elon and those two, it does feel a bit
like the stigma has at least shifted down a notch.
Maybe it was the too attempted assassination.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Oh who remembers that well, So I would take it
back to the Alex Cooper call her Daddy. In her
intro of why she was interviewing Kamala Harris, she was
visibly nervous. She was like, I don't know, I was
kind of not sure if I should do this, and
ultimately I don't think that it was a bad thing
for her personally to do that interview. Again, I don't
(22:02):
think that it was It went the way that it
should have went. But I think that Alex Cooper understands
that not every woman who listens to her is a Democrat,
and not every woman is voting for Kamala Harris. You know,
they always say, like, oh, Donald Trump's doing so bad
with women, but you know, it's like he's in the
forties with women. He's not like from the twenties. It's
(22:23):
really not that far apart. He's like a few points
behind Kamala Harris with women. That means that women are
listening to call her daddy and they'll be going and
voting for Trump. So she understood that she was alienating
some part of her fan base, and I think it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Showed by the way. Kudos to her for even acknowledging
that her transparency will help earn her trust with her audience.
And I believe there was some talk of her maybe
reaching out to Trump as well, but I think she did. Yeah,
You're right that like call her daddy and THEO Vaughn
are basically analogous in reaching young women and young men.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Absolutely and call her Daddy got her start, of course
with Barstool, and I think that the fact, you know,
we've talked about it on here also, but Dave Portnoy's
endorsement I think of Trump is also kind of a
big deal because he appeals to this young man audience
that Trump really does need to win.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
All right, speaking of stigma falling and all the stress
of election season, can we talk a little bit about
this Yahoo story? Yeah, because we mean to heal Carol,
only do what you and I are all about in
this headlines is twenty eight percent of Americans say it's
stressful to spend time with friends or family with different
political views. This is a Yahoo News you Go poll.
(23:39):
You know both and I both you and I come
from liberal towns, right. I think it sort of made
me who I am?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, like I needed.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
My arguments are so much better than their arguments because
they only ever get to argue with me, and I
get to argue with.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Lots of people, so many people. So what's your take
on spending time, especially during a pitched election season, with
those who disagree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's interesting because I think I lost all the people
that I was going to lose during the Bush administration.
Now I'm just like, if you're still here, we're cool
and we could get along even though even if we disagree. Yeah,
you know I always hear this. You know, how to
argue with your uncle on Thanksgiving? Like, please, don't argue
with your uncle and Thanksgiving like argue whether marshmallows should
(24:22):
go on the sweet potatoes. Don't argue politics with your
family and Thanksgiving. You're really only get the one family.
You should maybe try to preserve it and not have
ridiculous debates over the table. I get why it's stressful
for people. I get that people need to stick their
opinion places, but it would just really disappoint me if
(24:43):
my kids grew up and argued with their aunts and uncles.
I mean, we all happen to be kind of roughly
on the same political side, but should they be on
different sides if they are loved and cherished by their
family members, I leave politics at the door.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, I kind of feel like taking into whatever relationship
you have with somebody who disagrees with you the idea
of some grace about the fact that a lot of
people see this as too mediocre to bad choices, right,
everyone's a hybrid. There's there's very few people. I mean
Harry Sisson, I guess is the super fan who's just
(25:22):
out there, you know, write in tweets for pay Okay,
there is on.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
The debate he said, I just that was the best one.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
There is that type of person out there. But most
of the people you know are some sort of hybrid.
They're upset with certain things, but they're happy with other
things and their candidate. And I think having grace for
that is important. I do understand that people on certain
issues will say like, this is just a moral line
I can't cross, and it makes people want I mean, frankly,
(25:50):
October seventh is one of those things for me where
I look at people and go, wait a second, I
thought we were I thought we'd be on the same
page about this one. This one seems pretty black and white.
But I think even in the really unless it's egregious,
even in the really the places where you have huge disagreements,
you can find something else that you do not have
a disagreement about exactly. Or you could just talk about football.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right or anything. Yeah, makeup I mean, whatever it is
that you talk about. I think it's also important to
have friends who don't talk about politics with I have
those in my life where we literally never talk politics,
both people I agree with and people I disagree with,
which we just we laugh at the same stuff. And
that's really what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You will not be surprised by the way, and this
pops up in every survey like this, that the number
of Democrats and Harris voters who say they've severed a
relationship over this is higher than Republicans in almost every
survey of this kind, Republicans are more willing to have
cross partisan relationships and maintain them. I think that is
(26:57):
interesting given that the left itself on the back for
being very tolerant, and it's maybe something that they should
take to heart and take into their relationships such that
they have them with other people who disagree with them
also disagree with you. He keeps you honest.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and sharp. It keeps you sharp. You end
up hearing the other side's arguments, and I think that's important. Well,
thank you so much for joining us on Normally. If
you have something to tell us, please email us at
Normallythepod at gmail dot com. I'm Carol Markowitz.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And I'm Mary Catherine Ham. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Catch us on Thursday.
Hey, guys, and welcome to normally the show with normalist
takes for when the news gets weird in its selection
year so it always feels weird. I am Mary Katherine
Ham and.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Carol Markuitz.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Well, what do we have going on today? I do
want to note before we start that it is, of
course the anniversary week of October seventh, twenty twenty three,
and I want to commend Carol and I if you're
watching our video clips, both have our is really themed
shirts on yours just better an iron Dome T shirt.
(00:31):
But I just wanted to commend to you guys from
Carol's substack some writing about people's reaction to October seventh
over the past year and people who have been disappointing,
And by the way, thank you for the shout out.
I do feel so well deserved.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I mean you have been incredible. I feel so grateful
for you. I just I love the people that I'm
surrounded with, and I have never felt better about those
people than in the last year.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, I think it's it's been strange because I think
it was the easiest moral test to pass, which then
makes me more disturbed that many did not. And I
think that's what a lot of people dealt with post
October seventh, and Carol and I traveled to Israel together,
and it's just so hard to even comprehend what happened
(01:21):
that day to this day and will be forever probably,
But I wanted to note that so you guys can read.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Carol's thank you Mane before we.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Get to the nitty gritty of the politics news, which
actually Kamala Harris Vice President. Kamala Harris has changed her
tack when it comes to dealing with media. She is
doing a big media blitz by her standards this week,
sixty minutes a podcast call Her Daddy, a very popular
(01:54):
podcast with young women. She's doing the View, she's doing Colbert,
she's doing Howard Stern. So this is like about as
much as it gets for Kamala Harris. And let's just
start with the most serious one, which is a sixty
minutes interview in which she gives this answer about policy
toward Israel Prime Minister Netanya, who is not listening.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, Bill.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
The work that we have done has resulted in a
number of movements in that region by Israel that were
very much prompted by or a result of many things,
including our advocacy for what needs to happen in the region.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I would say that's the only serious one that she's doing.
And it's interesting, you know, there's always this idea that
you can separate a leader that you don't like from
a country that you say that you are an ally with.
But I think that people need to understand that there's
not a single Israeli leader who would be doing anything
(03:00):
differently today than Benjaminette Now who's doing it. There are
leaders who would be probably more brutal. There are leaders
who would probably be doing more, for example, Now, who's
often criticized in Israel from the right for evacuating the
North because how could you give up anything, How could
you let, you know, show any fear, how could you
(03:21):
let any wins happen? So I think people need to
get that. And it's a parsing that Kamala Harris has
to do in order to have Michigan in play, and
it's really kind of gross.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
What I'm struck by is well, a couple things in
this answer one and we'll play another one that reflects
this as well, but the fact that she often doesn't
seem to really even clock the questions she's asked. It's
very clear, and look, a lot of politicians do this.
There's just a deck in her head and she's going
to the deck. But hers is much more rigid than
(03:56):
most people.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Shallow.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, that too, and Israel in particular, she and Walls,
and often the Biden administration seem not in touch with
actual reality on the ground, for instance, when they always
bring up a two state solution. I know when you
and I were there, Carol, were standing in Cafarazzo, which
was hit very hard in the burnt ruins of much
(04:19):
of this community. We're standing with a man who has
moved back in very shortly after October seventh, is perhaps
among the demographic most committed to peace, absolutely gods and neighbors,
because that's why the community was there, right, And he's
telling us this is two generations away at best, even considering.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, they killed all the peacenicks like that. That's what
I think people need to get the kids dancing at
these festivals, those of people most likely to want peace
with a potential Palestinian state. You know, hersh Goldberg, he
had a sign in his bedroom that Jerusalem is for all,
and they killed this mayor who was activist and a
(05:04):
big time peace activist in these kibbutz's murdered him. I mean,
they literally killed the only demographic, not the only, but
the demographic who mostly would have supported this and so.
And the thing is that the Palestinians have not wanted
a state. They have been really, really open and blunt
about this, even you know every day Palestinians that you
(05:25):
hear from the goal is the destruction of Israel. And
if I think if the pro Palestinians in the West
cared about those Palestinians, they would say, that's never going
to happen. How do we move forward from this with
you accepting that Israel exists?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That yes, that would actually deal with reality on the ground, right,
which is what I wish the Vice President could communicate
that she understands a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But I do.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I feel like if they're stuck in this sort of
Georgetown symposium about the two state solutions from like fifteen
years ago, right, and that's not what's actually happening.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I'll just add one more thing that if anybody recalls
AOC when she first became a congresswoman, gave an interview
where She also had a very shallow understanding of anything,
and she ended up giggling and saying I'm not a
midd East expert, which, yeah, we know. But one of
the things that she got in trouble for is that
she said she was for the two state solution. Because
(06:25):
that used to be the liberal point of view. That
is no longer acceptable on the American left. Forget about Palestinians,
forget about Hamas, forget about like, you know, the real
crazies in that region we're talking. American congresswoman had to
basically walk back her support of the two state solution.
Kamala Harris is pushing this idea with nobody to accept it.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, I want to play another clip from Kamala's
sixty minutes. As you say, the only serious interview. Look,
people are welcome to do friendly interview. Hers is a
ratio problem, right, She's going on with the view Colbert
Howard Stern, I think, all of which have literally endorsed
her love. Yeah, I believe. So that's not exactly tough. Fine,
(07:14):
but her ratio is very low of doing tough interviews
to not tough because she doesn't do interviews. So let's
play the sixty minutes question where she's asked about how
her economic plan actually could come to be.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
My plan is about saying that when you invest in
small businesses, you invest in the middle class, and you
strengthen America's economy. Small businesses are part of the backbone
of America's economy.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But pardon me that, Advice President. The question was, how
are you going to pay for it?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Well, one of the things that I'm going to make
sure that the richest among us who can afford it,
pay their fair share in taxes. It is not right
that teachers and nurses and firefighters are paying a higher
tax rate than billionaires and the biggest corporations. And I
plan on making that fair.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
But we're dealing with the real world here.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But the real world includes how are you going to
get this through Congress? You know, when you talk quietly
with a lot of folks in Congress, they know exactly
what I'm talking about because their constituents know exactly what
I'm talking about. Their constituents are those firefighters and teachers
and nurses.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It's funny that she gets this pushback, right, It's like
she wasn't even prepared for this. How do you pay
for it, How do you pass it through Congress? This
is like the basics. She just always seems like the
kid who is really smart and doesn't do their homework
and things. They could talk their way out of it,
but she can't talk her way out of it. So
(08:49):
maybe the kid isn't as smart as they think they are.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, I'm not surprised by her answers at this point. Frankly,
I have trouble watching them, just as a I have
a physiological embarrassment that happens when we watch these clips.
But yes, she's again. I appreciate the follow up. The
follow up is what always sort of nails her because
she has not thought past the deck in her head.
(09:14):
And if we can indulge us for one last clip,
can we play the thirty two days clip from her
stump speech where the teleprompter went off. Apparently it fails,
and this is what we get.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Remember his number thirty two today, we got thirty two
days until the election, So thirty two days, thirty two days, Okay,
we got some business to do.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
We got some business to do, all right, thirty two days,
and we know we will do it. And this is
gonna be a very tight race. Until the very end.
This is gonna be a very tight race until the
(10:09):
very end.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We are the underdog and we know we have some
hard work ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Oh that's so awkward. I find that's so difficult to watch.
I'm so I can't do awkward. And that was tough.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's really tough. It's like an endurance event.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Plus, it's a stump speech. It's not like a great
policy speech that she's only given one time. It's a
stump speech. She should be able to like wing at
least some of it. Look, I'm a when I give
a speech, I have notes, I'm not a. My memory
just isn't what it used to be, and there's no
way I could just wing it. I get it, but
not have anything to say other than repeating thirty two days'
(10:46):
super awkward.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I feel like I understand that I probably put too
much emphasis on public speaking, as that is my thing
that I do, and I am decent at extipporatius speaking. Okay,
so that's stipulated. I find her remarkable because she's been
practicing for like decades. And this is where we are
real quick. Why do you think they're changing strategies? What
(11:10):
are they seeing that's making them switch. Tim Walls was
on Fox News this weekend.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, that was interesting. I was actually impressed that they
were at least doing one interview with Fox because all
these other interviews are so softball. I actually want to say, well,
I'll get to that in a second, but I do
think that they're switching because they think Kamala should be
running away with this and she's very much not. I
think if the election is held tomorrow, donald Trump wins,
and I think that they know that. Yeah, they're tied
(11:37):
in all these states, but they count on Donald Trump
voters not being open about it to pollsters. He's going
to pull you know, one percent two percent above where
he's polling in these states, and that's a Donald Trump win.
So they're trying to reverse momentum. I would say also
that I think they call her daddy interview. She's getting
(11:57):
a lot of flak from the Republicans on it could
have been really good for her, but she didn't do
it right. And here's the thing. I have never watched
call her daddy the whole thing, but I come across
the clips of Alex Cooper and having these conversations, and
she's always like in a hoodie, which she was yesterday,
but a hoodie with heels, and she got her legs crossed,
and it's kind of like just like two girls hitty up. Yeah,
(12:20):
she could have leaned into that and had a real
conversation where Americans got to see her. Instead, they got
mired down in the abortion question again, and they had
to lie about where Donald Trump is on abortion because
he's actually barely moderate to the you know, the dismay
of people on the right who don't like that, and
I get it, but she didn't play it correctly. Had
(12:44):
she kind of gone in there and done a call
her Daddy interview where she was more casual, I think
that really could have done something for her. But she's
so buttoned up and so afraid to let loose that
they just couldn't get her to do it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I think that cuts to the problem she's running into.
Is that again and again, no matter how much they
put her out there, even in a situation like that,
what you find out is that she can't have a conversation, right.
That's what we find out every single time, even a
chatty girl talk conversation, and that's something that makes voters uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
That's exactly right. And it reminded me that Donald Trump
went on THEO vonn and had kind of a long ranging,
wide ranging conversation about all kinds of things that could
have been it for her with women, and she didn't
take that opportunity to do that. So, yeah, Kamala Harris
(13:41):
not that great of the talking.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Or the governing. But you know, we'll see about.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The vote thing at a time, Mary Catherine.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, So that leads.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Us into the fact that Democrats have decided that the
First Amendment is a problem. Maybe this is what their
plan is to get Kamala Harris to stop with all
the talk talking. Let's play the first clip John Kerry
on the First Amendment.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
And I think the dislike of and anguish over social
media is just growing and growing and growing, and it's
part of our problem, particularly in democracies, in terms of
building consensus around any issue. It's really hard to govern today.
You can't you know, you know, there's no the referees
(14:27):
we used to have to determine what's the fact and
what is in the fact that kind of been eviscerated
to a certain degree, and people go and that people
self select where they go for their news. Or for
their information, and then you just get into a vicious cycle.
So it's really really hard, much harder to build consensus
today than at any time in the forty five fifty
(14:50):
years I've been involved in this. And you know, there's
a lot of discussion now about how you curb those
entities in order to guarantee that you're going to have,
you know, some accountability in facts, et cetera. But look,
if people go to only one source and the source
they go to is sick and you know, as an
(15:12):
agenda and they're putting out disinformation, our First Amendment stands
as a major block to the ability to be able
to just you know, hammer it out of existence. So
what you need, what we need is to is to
win the ground, win the right to govern by hopefully
having you know, winning enough votes that you're free to
(15:34):
be able to implement change. Obviously, there are some people
in our country who are prepared to implement change in
other ways, and that's where we're really Democracy can survive
on writing, I think democracies are very challenged right now
(15:55):
and have not proven they can move fast enough or
big enough to deal with the challenges that we are facing.
And to me, that is part of what this race,
this election is all about. Will we break the fever
in the United States?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So the First Amendment is a problem in democracy, is
Mary Catherine? What do we think of that?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I mean, three cheers for the First Amendment. He's at
some international confab as usual, where you know, all the
other those confabs, I know, all the other cool countries
get to arrest people when they tweet mean things, but
not in this country. And unfortunately, many of our liberal
elites find this to be a problem. I find that
to be disturbing, and it's disturbing that not that many
(16:37):
people find it disturbing these days. Yeah, people are very
comfortable with this kind of rhetoric about the First Amendment
because to them, they just go, well, just a bad
info will be gone, right, That's not how it works.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Friends, that we said this during the last episode, you know,
the whole screaming fire in a theater, your your pet peeve.
But Tim Walls was trying to say during the debate
that hate speech does not qualify on your First Amendment.
He was kind of drowned out, but he kept saying,
not hate speech, not hate speech. Yeah, hate speech. Hate
speech is also covered under the First Amendment. We used
(17:13):
to understand that, and now it seems that the Democrats
are trying to will into existence the fact that you
can't say whatever you want and we don't have that
right here, and it's really a problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Well, I think we have another clip of none other
than Hillary Clinton. I believe she's speaking to Michael Smercanish
on CNN, and she has this to say about social
media and if.
Speaker 7 (17:38):
The platforms, whether it's Facebook or Twitter, X or Instagram
or TikTok, whatever they are, if they don't moderate and
monitor the content, we lose total control. And it's not
just the social and psychological effects, it's real harm.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
They lose control, We lose control, Carol.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It does seem like they are afraid of losing control.
And I'm glad that she said that out loud, because
that's what we say to each other. They're afraid of
losing control, and here she comes to say, yeah, yeah,
we're afraid of losing control. I would also say that
this relates to the fact that Elon Musk gets such
attack from the left for being a Trump supporter. They're saying, well,
(18:22):
how could he have X be an impartial platform while
supporting one of the candidates. All of the people who
have ever worked for X owned X supported one of
the candidates. They just maybe weren't quite as open as
he is about it. I think that's another thing that
Democrats kind of don't understand is that we all have opinions.
(18:45):
We know you have opinions. The whole thing is that
you're lying about the fact that you don't have.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
An opinion well, and that the more you favor people
with the opinions you don't agree with having free reign,
the better we were able to actually get to the
bottom of things. That's what. The other thing that I
actually like how the Trump campaign has started framing this
(19:10):
as a threat to democracy to sort of echo, Okay,
you say that we're a threat, we say that you're
a threat in this way, which I actually a lot
of double hater voters are probably evaluating their vote this way,
like which of you guys is a bigger threst. So
Trump fans is saying, Okay, let's talk about the freedom
of speech issue. You guys clearly don't understand it to
(19:30):
the point of probably disliking the First Amendment and wanting
to change it. The Biden administration had a disinformation board.
The Biden administration has actively censored American citizens during COVID
so that we could not get real answers to real questions.
And those things do add up. Oh, they also censored,
(19:51):
like the entire media for the Hunter Biden story, right,
which the media doesn't even care about. Yeah, because they
were happy to do it. So those things are a threat.
And to hear really powerful people talk about how they
can't control Elon Musk makes me go, yeh, go Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That's right. Yeah, I mean, look, call me back. When
Elon Musk doesn't let you send a link to an
article that he doesn't like, which was the case before
Elon Musk took over. You not only couldn't access the
New York Post Twitter account at the time, you also
couldn't text or DM that link to your friend. You
(20:31):
couldn't share it at all. I'm sorry that was such
an overstep that, like anything that they say now about
Elon Musk, Yeah, he supports Donald Trump. And believe me
that the other CEOs you know, of all the other
media companies have supported who they've supported, almost always Democrats,
and they have acted accordingly. And he isn't so I'm
(20:51):
grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah. By the way, do you think some sort of
stigma is falling a bit because the actor Zachary Levi
came out as a Trump supporter last okay, he was
the star of Chuck, which was like a sort of
spy guy comic book type sitcom, and then he actually
went into the Marble universe as one of the lesser characters.
(21:14):
But Shazam in the Marvel universe, he came out as
a Trump supporter. And then I saw a picture of
Dana Kapatrick with a woman for Trump jacket on.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I didn't know Danna Kakpatrick was a Trump supporter, but
she was with Sage Steele wearing this jacket, and I thought,
between Elon and those two, it does feel a bit
like the stigma has at least shifted down a notch.
Maybe it was the too attempted assassination.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Oh who remembers that well, So I would take it
back to the Alex Cooper call her Daddy. In her
intro of why she was interviewing Kamala Harris, she was
visibly nervous. She was like, I don't know, I was
kind of not sure if I should do this, and
ultimately I don't think that it was a bad thing
for her personally to do that interview. Again, I don't
(22:02):
think that it was It went the way that it
should have went. But I think that Alex Cooper understands
that not every woman who listens to her is a Democrat,
and not every woman is voting for Kamala Harris. You know,
they always say, like, oh, Donald Trump's doing so bad
with women, but you know, it's like he's in the
forties with women. He's not like from the twenties. It's
(22:23):
really not that far apart. He's like a few points
behind Kamala Harris with women. That means that women are
listening to call her daddy and they'll be going and
voting for Trump. So she understood that she was alienating
some part of her fan base, and I think it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Showed by the way. Kudos to her for even acknowledging
that her transparency will help earn her trust with her audience.
And I believe there was some talk of her maybe
reaching out to Trump as well, but I think she did. Yeah,
You're right that like call her daddy and THEO Vaughn
are basically analogous in reaching young women and young men.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Absolutely and call her Daddy got her start, of course
with Barstool, and I think that the fact, you know,
we've talked about it on here also, but Dave Portnoy's
endorsement I think of Trump is also kind of a
big deal because he appeals to this young man audience
that Trump really does need to win.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
All right, speaking of stigma falling and all the stress
of election season, can we talk a little bit about
this Yahoo story? Yeah, because we mean to heal Carol,
only do what you and I are all about in
this headlines is twenty eight percent of Americans say it's
stressful to spend time with friends or family with different
political views. This is a Yahoo News you Go poll.
(23:39):
You know both and I both you and I come
from liberal towns, right. I think it sort of made
me who I am?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, like I needed.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
My arguments are so much better than their arguments because
they only ever get to argue with me, and I
get to argue with.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Lots of people, so many people. So what's your take
on spending time, especially during a pitched election season, with
those who disagree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's interesting because I think I lost all the people
that I was going to lose during the Bush administration.
Now I'm just like, if you're still here, we're cool
and we could get along even though even if we disagree. Yeah,
you know I always hear this. You know, how to
argue with your uncle on Thanksgiving? Like, please, don't argue
with your uncle and Thanksgiving like argue whether marshmallows should
(24:22):
go on the sweet potatoes. Don't argue politics with your
family and Thanksgiving. You're really only get the one family.
You should maybe try to preserve it and not have
ridiculous debates over the table. I get why it's stressful
for people. I get that people need to stick their
opinion places, but it would just really disappoint me if
(24:43):
my kids grew up and argued with their aunts and uncles.
I mean, we all happen to be kind of roughly
on the same political side, but should they be on
different sides if they are loved and cherished by their
family members, I leave politics at the door.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, I kind of feel like taking into whatever relationship
you have with somebody who disagrees with you the idea
of some grace about the fact that a lot of
people see this as too mediocre to bad choices, right,
everyone's a hybrid. There's there's very few people. I mean
Harry Sisson, I guess is the super fan who's just
(25:22):
out there, you know, write in tweets for pay Okay,
there is on.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
The debate he said, I just that was the best one.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
There is that type of person out there. But most
of the people you know are some sort of hybrid.
They're upset with certain things, but they're happy with other
things and their candidate. And I think having grace for
that is important. I do understand that people on certain
issues will say like, this is just a moral line
I can't cross, and it makes people want I mean, frankly,
(25:50):
October seventh is one of those things for me where
I look at people and go, wait a second, I
thought we were I thought we'd be on the same
page about this one. This one seems pretty black and white.
But I think even in the really unless it's egregious,
even in the really the places where you have huge disagreements,
you can find something else that you do not have
a disagreement about exactly. Or you could just talk about football.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right or anything. Yeah, makeup I mean, whatever it is
that you talk about. I think it's also important to
have friends who don't talk about politics with I have
those in my life where we literally never talk politics,
both people I agree with and people I disagree with,
which we just we laugh at the same stuff. And
that's really what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You will not be surprised by the way, and this
pops up in every survey like this, that the number
of Democrats and Harris voters who say they've severed a
relationship over this is higher than Republicans in almost every
survey of this kind, Republicans are more willing to have
cross partisan relationships and maintain them. I think that is
(26:57):
interesting given that the left itself on the back for
being very tolerant, and it's maybe something that they should
take to heart and take into their relationships such that
they have them with other people who disagree with them
also disagree with you. He keeps you honest.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and sharp. It keeps you sharp. You end
up hearing the other side's arguments, and I think that's important. Well,
thank you so much for joining us on Normally. If
you have something to tell us, please email us at
Normallythepod at gmail dot com. I'm Carol Markowitz.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And I'm Mary Catherine Ham. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Catch us on Thursday.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com