July 15, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine and Karol discuss Joe Biden's controversial 'auto-pen' pardons and the implications of his administration's decision-making process. They also explore the troubling trends in education, particularly the disconnect between rising graduation rates and declining SAT scores, and reflect on the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, emphasizing the media's handling of the event and its significance in American politics. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Yeah, we are back on normally the show with normalish
takes or when the news gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am Mary Catherine Camp and.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I'm Carol Markowitz. Another relaxing weekend. Mary Catherine.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I was saying, like, I can't, I can't engage with this,
like when the whole cooj is fighting with each other
on Friday night. I'm like, nah, yeah, I'm checking out.
And I went and got my kids. They were with
the grandparents for a week, and I went on a
road trip with all four kids to pick them up
and bring them back. And it was one of those
days I'm sure you've had them where everything went haywire,
(00:36):
like we ate an epic storm where people are driving
with their flashers on just so they can be seen.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, I get the big kids.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Every single thing I had planned to do with the
four of them was either.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Happen right out. There was no power.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
At the places we wanted to go because of the galleon,
and we ended up eating at waffle house and like
waiting in a creek.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So if you haven't wonder.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
That sounds perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Actually, like just just revert to redneck when disaster strikes.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
That okay, Yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Know, I have three kids, you have four kids.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I saw a mom on a plane yesterday with four kids,
and I always am like I wish I had a fourth,
Like I wish we had, you know, gotten for it.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
That fourth kid. It's it really does add a lot
of kid.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Just the counting of heads, like when you're in a
public space becomes larger.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
But we did have a wonderful time. It was a disastrous,
wonderful day.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So yeah, amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
All right, Well, we're not going to get into the
Epstein stuff today. We are going to see how it
shakes out in the next day or two. I know,
we get accused of like not covering some topics because
we are you know, we wait and see, but we've
not been wrong on the waiting and seeing yet.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
It's a really good skill to have for a normous Yeah. Yeah, like,
is anyone going to quit? I would like to see
and then we'll discuss, Right.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
We will watch it play out and then we'll talk
about it. But we probably will.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Get into it for Wednesday's episode, depending on how the
next day or two shake out. But we'll start today
with our last president, Joe Biden and his cooky administration.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Wow, what have they been up to. Well, here's the
first thing that's good. So the news story is that
the New York Times gets an interview with Joe Biden
in which he says, yeah, in these giant categories of
pardons that you've all been wondering about where people were
controversially let off the hook, and these giant tranches of pardons, yeah,
(02:39):
I theoretically said yes to those, but no, not I
did not sign all of them. The autopen was used
to a great degree in those large groupings.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Let me read you the quote.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Mister Biden did not individually approve each name for the
categorical pardons that applied to large numbers of people.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He and the AIDS confirmed.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Rather, after extensive discussion of different possible criteria, he signed
off on the standards he wanted to be used to
determine which convicts would qualify for a reduction in sentence.
Now people are comparing this to January sixth pardons by
Donald Trump. Whatever you think of those pardons, Donald Trump
(03:21):
signed those pardons on camera.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
They were not signed by who knows who with an autopen.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Donald Trump might not be able to name every January
six six er. But that's irrelevant because we saw him
sign the pardons, and this is an entirely different story.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, and I just think all of it goes back
to the question is not whether it's okay for an
autopin to do things we have all agreed to some extent,
sure that that happens in a presidency.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The question is whether the person in charge.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Of saying that the autopen could sign things was of
a state of mind where he could actually agree to
those things. Yeah, exactly in Biden's case, especially with some
of these more controversial things, it's real unclear that's exactly
where he was, and it makes me uncomfortable. Although I
do think the pardon power is so clear and extensive
(04:18):
that there's probably not a lot to be done except
for to expose what happened, which is I sure there's consequences.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Which is a step forward, and again finding out who
was running the country during that time. I love this
part of the New York Times article. Mister Trump, asked
by a reporter last month whether he had uncovered evidence
that anything had been illegally signed without mister Biden's knowledge,
said no, but he cited his rival's debate performance in
June twenty twenty four, when mister Biden eighty one at
(04:46):
the time, delivered halting and meandering answers. Mister Biden withdrew
soon after his reelection bid quote, I've uncovered, you know,
the human mind. Mister Trump said, I was in the
debate with the human mind, and I didn't think he
knew what the hell he was doing.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
End quote. Fair.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Fair. The other part of this reporting says, so he's
given the strictures or the he's talked, he signs off
on the guidelines for what a group of pardons should reflect.
But then it goes on to say even after mister
Biden made that decision, One former AID said, the Bureau
of Prisons kept providing additional information about specific inmates, resulting
(05:22):
in small changes to the list.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Rather than ask.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Mister Biden, who this is my parentthetical was probably napping or.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Comotos or what have you. Are given times right on
the beach.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Rather than asking mister Biden to keep signing revised versions,
his staff waited and then ran the final version through
the auto pen, which they saw as a routine procedure.
The AID said, that's an interesting sentence because it does
not include a check back, either over a phone or
in person yep or anything. No, there's no conferencing with
(05:56):
the president on Oh, we made a few changes.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right, we added people.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
I mean it has to be through the president, and
that goes unmentioned. I also liked that the New York
Times headline was, of course, a variation on the Republicans
pounced theme right right?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Donald Dr.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Trump and his allies had begun investigations to support their
claims that Joseph bar Biden Junior was incapacitated and his
staff conspired to take presidential actions in his name.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, he was incapacitated, but his staff was empowered.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
To take actions in his name. Like that's the problem.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Why are you pouncing, Mary Catherine?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Like, pouncing on the truth is pretty is a pretty
decent thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Do you think we find out who was running the
White House?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Probably not really.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I don't think kjp's book is an independent tells us anything.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
No. No, I mean, look, I think that's.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
The only way her book sells though.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So that's true.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But I think she's going to critique him from the left,
and she is not interested in exposing what actually went down,
like that would be interesting. I mean, she certainly had
a front row seat right, although like she's not a
person of discernment, so who knows what you would get.
But I just think this is one of those things
where because largely the presses to the left, they're all
(07:20):
going to be like, see, it's one of those things
where you can't talk about it while it's happening because
that's rude and conspiracy theorizing, and then you can't talk
about it after it happened because that's old news and
why would we talk about that? And I'm like, that's amazing,
it's very recent, and I feel like we should talk
about it. So I appreciate Republicans investigating it, and I
think that such that we get answers, that'll be the
(07:43):
only place because unless there's a follow up to all
these tellaws about the campaign that include what the hell
happened for four years, I don't think we're getting it right.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And I don't know that Senate and House Republicans can
get to the bottom of this either, although I would
like to see them continue to try.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
This is important.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It's not nothing story imp This is like we elect
someone to run the country and that someone was really
unable to do that for those last four years and
somebody else was taking his place. Maybe it was multiple people,
maybe it was many people, But I'd like to know that.
And I want to know who covered it up and
how it all went down. And these kinds of asides
(08:26):
about him not really participating in the autopen signing of
these pardons. It's a step in the right direction of
telling that story.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Also, can we just note why is he giving interviews?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Why is he giving interviews? I don't know, Like.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Everyone who had a part in said scandal that we
have just explicated is like, please please stop talking, praise please?
Why are you talking to the New York Times? Yeah,
because I think someone made this point on Twitter. I
forget who it was. But Trump has not had a
great price, even though he should because of the big,
(09:02):
beautiful bill.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And the NonStop wins.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, however, because of the Epstein stuff, which we're talking
about later in the week, he has had not a
great day and a half several days of coverage and
what does this do? This just you knights, all the
people of the right again to be like, look at
what we were enduring.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Yep and he you know, so many times during the
campaign Biden kept inserting himself into the conversations and making
himself the story even you know, even while he was
still running in a negative way.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And so this is just a continuation of that.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
One of the other things they mentioned in the story
that we didn't actually get to last week, but Biden's
former doctor testified in front of lawmakers or answered questions
from lawmakers last week, and he pled the fifth when
he was asked whether the President Biden was.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Fit to serve.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
That's a huge story in and of itself that his
doctor is pleading the fifth and not wanting to answer
questions about what he knew about his condition at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, he just like kind of walked out of the
part of that gathering, which was I think closed press.
It was like a you know, under oath, but in
a in a closed setting situation.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I do think we're in a we're in a pickle
about how we deal with these issues in the future
because the press will only want to use a new
rubric with Donald Trump, like, oh, well, we really got
burned by that Biden guy, but we're going to use
this very strict standard now to Donald Trump, and Republicans
will not accept that. So it's kind of like looking forward,
I think the big hack might be just like someone
(10:44):
under seventy.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Yeah, well, good luck, that's my that's my governing hack everyone.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
That would be nice.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I'm not sure we're going to be counting on that,
although I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
The future field.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Does look more youthful, but I think they're going to
sneak in some eighty year olds, right and.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Next president, eighty five year old Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Love it, love it. We're heading there.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Ah, well, we're going to take a short break and
come right back with more normally.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
We are back with normally. Thank you for sticking around.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Graduation rates are up, but SAT scores are down.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, that's a little thing called social promotion.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Right, So apparently kids are doing worse than.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Ever on the SAT, but graduation rates continue to climb.
And Americans for School Oversight on x posted that teachers
are being told to give fifty percent even when students
skip tests or turn in nothing failure rate to suppress
to protect the system, not student learning.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
This does not seem like a good idea.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
This seems like letting a bunch of people who are
unprepared for a lot of things, for higher learning, for
life out into the world without the proper preparation.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, it's a recipe for disaster. Lowering the bar is
not wise. One of the things that they discovered in
this literacy surge in places like Louisiana, Alabama, tennesse that
are doing better than in all demographics versus other states,
is it. One of the things they implemented in those
(12:34):
states was to say, if you have not learned the
basics of literacy, if you are not reading by third grade,
we have to hold you back. We will not be
letting you forward even though you have if you haven't.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Hit it's the way to go.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And in all.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Those states, everyone freaked out and was like, no, we'll
have to hold back so many students. And what happened
in reality was that it lit a fire under adults
because there wasn't actual consequences consequence. They were like, oh crap,
we have to spend these years actually teaching them to read,
all right, And students no doubt responded to the higher
(13:10):
bar as well, And you end up with not that
many holdbacks because people were accomplishing the skill. So if
you take away that part of the system, yeah, there's
no skills.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I really do think that people need like I mean,
I for sure need like deadlines or you know, accountability.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I need stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
In order to work, Like like I have a substack
and I write on it in frequently. I'm trying to
do better for people who follow and pay for my subjects.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Sorry about that, I feel you.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
But if I don't have a deadline, if I don't
have a marker, it's very hard to do. And you know,
on the flip side of this, I have a friend
who has a son with special needs, and she wanted
him to repeat a grade because she felt he wasn't
prepared enough and they just wanted to keep promoting him,
and she wanted him to, you know, stay in the
(14:04):
same class, get a real handle on the information, be
able to proceed to the next grade really with confidence.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And she had to fight her school system in order
to make that happen. And he was clearly not prepared
for the next grade.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So you know, I'm sure there are parents who worry
about their kids not being promoted to the next grade.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
But there's also the parents.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Who think, my kid could use another year of this
and they're not allowed to do that.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Well, and standardized test scores get a bad rap standardized
tests in general get a bad rap. I understand the concerns,
and some of them are very real. They also mean
something as a gauge they actually do, and all these
colleges that have tried to toss them out have come
up with pretty bad results as a result of that decision.
(14:51):
I want a note from There's a New York Times
up ed on standardized testing, which of course was only
written from a leftist perspective, to say, Linda McMahon is
going to ruin standardized testing, which they were never big
fans of before, but it makes this important point. Standardized
testing isn't perfect, and I'm sympathetic to the argument that
it can hamper teacher autonomy in the classroom, but there
(15:11):
is evidence that without standardized testing, parents have little awareness
of their children's deficits.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
In part because of great inflation.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Over the past few decades, test scores have gone down
while grades have gone up. The issue, which predated the
pandemic is known as the honesty gap. I will add
that the honesty gap got larger after the pandemic. So
my district, because they shut down school for so long,
dispensed with their apples to Apple's stats comparison in a
lot of areas because they were like, ooh, that's going
(15:39):
to look bad for us. And so in a lot
of cases, the less standardized testing, the more they're trying
to cover up, and covering it up isn't helping anyone.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah. Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I actually wrote against the Gifted and Talented Test in
New York City when my kids were little, because I
thought it was ridiculous to give a five year old
a standardized test. And even though my daughter like aced it,
I still thought it was ridiculous, and so I wrote
about it.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
And I have completely changed my mind about it, in
part because they got rid of the test and they.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Started going by like teacher recommendations and that kind of thing,
which is so easily played. And the Gifted and Talented
schools are like in steep decline because they got rid
of that test. It just standardization makes it fairer. Everything
else can be gamed, can be played. You can, you know,
ask the teacher to give your kid the recommendation that
(16:36):
they need.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
An interesting point.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
About the results and the failure rates. Ex teacher Frank McCormick,
who tweets at cb heresy on X, posted the results
that we talk about, and noted that when he was
a teacher, despite being rated excellent, my principal told me
that my failure rate was too high and to fix
it if I wanted to come back next year. He
(17:00):
was reprimanded for holding students accountable and rewarded for fabricating grades.
He writes, I have never been more depressed and demoralized.
That's the other side of this is that teachers don't
want to be socially promoting these kids. They want them
to actually learn, and we're putting everybody in a tough
situation with this kind of behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Can I note one quick stat also that as sort
of encouraging that was bouncing around the educational X of
areas this week, which is that, oh lo and behold
another one that makes levels a little uncomfortable. Family structure
matters to student achievements.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
This is a University of Virginia study called Godfather's Flourishing Kids,
which came out just recently, and I'm glad it got
quite a bit of attention in those circles on X
and not just from right leading, right leading people for
this reason. This is in the seventy four the research
led by my AEI colleague Brad Wilcox, and co authored
by a diverse team that includes another AI colleague, finds
(18:01):
that children in Virginia with actively involved fathers are more
likely to earn good grades, less likely to have behavior
problems in school, and dramatically less likely to suffer from depression. Specifically,
children with disengaged fathers are sixty eight percent less likely
to get mostly good grades and nearly four times is
likely to be diagnosed with depression. These are not trivial effects,
and importantly, basically the entire achievement gap on race basis
(18:27):
is erased if you put black, white Hispanic students with
two engaged parents together in a co If you compare those,
the stability of the family overcomes a race issue every time.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Right, Yeah, there was a popular story, maybe like a
year and a half ago, two years ago. I covered
it a lot on the Carol Marko Wood Show, but
economist Melissa Kearney, who was.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
A left leaning economist, found that, you.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Know, basically, children raised by married parents have better outcomes
across the board.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
And it wasn't something that.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
She wanted to find, and that's what she discovered in
her work and all of her the people she worked
with were like, you cannot say this, and once you
get to even if this helps children, you cannot admit
the truth.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
It's a very dangerous place to be.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And that's where a lot of lefty academics get. Just
to make my somewhat muddled version of that clearer, this
writer writes, if a black or Hispanic student is raised
in a religious home with two biological parents, the achievement
gap totally disappears, even when adjusting for socioeconomic status. I mean,
this is powerful stuff because presumably we would all like
(19:39):
children to achieve and read and learn as that teacher does.
There are a lot of unions who might think different,
who are trying to cover all this up. Up next,
we have some reflections on July thirteenth, twenty twenty four
in the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, which weird the
media is not covering a ton.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I know we'll be back on normally, all.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Right, Carol, Well, it has been one year since a
seismic event in American politics. In American history, the one
year commemorations are not that common, but it is the
assassination attempt on one Donald J. Trump when he was
at a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, July thirteenth, twenty twenty four.
(20:23):
And I just wanted to talk about it a little
bit because.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
It's being undercovered, right.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
It was like a giant story that barely gets any
kind of mention at all.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Where were you when you heard that?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Oh, I have a very interesting story about that. I
was on a plane full of journals, oh, on our
way to the RNC, and the plane did not have
Wi Fi. We happened to all be on a plane
without wife. So and it's like everyone's on this plane BBC, CNN,
like Tappers up there, Chuck Todd's over here, right.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'm way in the back, probably have bought my ticket late,
like I do. I'm way in the back of the
plane and I did.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Sorry, TSA or whoever's in charge of this FA I
turned on my phone early to try to catch a
signal and see what it was. I didn't The plane
was fine, so I don't think it's a safety issue.
I turned it on, caught a signal, and I start
getting these texts from people I trust. So it wasn't
like a you know, like this is a made up
(21:27):
rumor thing. It was from like guy Benson, who was
following up from my husband, who's following up with very
specific things. And what happened is I think I was
the first person on the plane.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
To know that this had happened.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Did you stand up and were like?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I actually thought about doing that, But much like the
fear you have when you're breaking something, I was like,
what if this turns out to be not what I
think it is? And I had no way to back
up my information aside from like the two and a
half texts I had received.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But yes, I was on that plane.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And then once we landed, of course everybody turns on
their phones and it goes like wildfire.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I knew.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I didn't tell the BBC gall next to me. I
was like, hey, you media. She's like yeah, and I
was like, I think President Trump was shot. She's like,
so it goes like wild through fire through the plane.
And I will say this for the journals. When we
exited that plane, it was silent because everyone was in
the throes of this is actually potentially extremely tragic.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And all very interesting. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I was a little bit proud of them, and in
that moment, obviously very quickly it turns into nonsense.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Again.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Yeah, they didn't really cover themselves in Glory where all
some of the headlines were like Donald Trump falls on stage.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
In that moment, though, on that plane it was treated
as very solemn and grave and very very very serious.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I was.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
I had just woken up in Singapore and I had
gotten a text from our best friends and saying, hey,
I know you're away, but someone just took a shot
at Donald Trump, and I like sat up in bed
just like, oh my god, you know, is he okay?
Like just I feared the worst, obviously, like I guess
a lot of people would.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And the fact.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
That it missed the bullet missed him by such a
tiny amount, by such a tiny, you know, measure, is
really miraculous. And I, you know, he seems like he
has leaned on his faith a little bit since then,
and I totally get why he talks about God in
(23:37):
a way that he did.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Not before that.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And I really do feel like I understand it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I had Selena Zito on the Carol Marco wid show
a few months ago talking about her new book Butler.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I'm gonna play a little clip. She was there that day.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
She was right in front of Donald Trump, and this
is her describing what happened.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
And you know, if you've never been to a rally,
you don't understand. But the relationship between him and the
people that are attending it is very transactional. He feeds
off of them, they feed off of him. And this
isn't a positive way. This is a very sort of
aspirational way. People believe they are part of something bigger
(24:19):
than themselves, and Chump intuitively understands that he is as well.
He's part of it, He's part of them. It's not
just about him, it's about everybody there. So because of that,
he never looks away from the crop. He'll move his
he'll move his body and look at different size, like
(24:39):
turn around and look at the crowds around.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Rights has notes or anything.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Yeah, so two things happen simultaneously that never happened. He
brings a chart down.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I'm like, what is he?
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Ross Perot like, he never has a chart?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Amazing.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
And then he turns away from the crop and he
never does that. And at that moment, I hear pop
pop pop pop. The bullets fly right over. I watch
him go down, but he takes himself down. I note that,
like it's really weird. You know how they always say
things happen in slow motion. They absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Really, I can see him.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Go down, I can see him hold his ear. I
see the Secret Service go around him. You remember, I'm
like four feet away from him at this point.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And is your daughter snapping pictures my dog?
Speaker 5 (25:31):
Yeah, we're We don't stop working until the second four
bullets go by and Michelle takes us step the campaign
press guy, he's amazing. He's my hero. He Michelle Licard.
I will love him forever. He was so protective of
all of us. And I can I can hear the
(25:54):
whole conversation he is having with the Secret Service, and
you know, like about when to go up, and you
know that the shooter is dead, and you can hear
them talking. You can hear the rain, I can hear
the radios just because of how close you a and.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I can.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
It was a little bit funny. It's funnier now. It
was a little bit funny.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
In the moment.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
And hear him like they want him to get up
and want me to be up, but he's like basically saying,
I need to put my damn shoes on right like
his someone had knocked his shoes off and and I
hear one agent sigh like okay, all right, like okay,
put your shoes on right.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
And they get his shoes off.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That's so weird.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
And then he comes off the stage. He goes right
past me. There is an agent that holds a gun
right in our heads as he's going past, because they
still don't know what. And so I did not go
to Bedminster that day, no, obviously. But he calls me
the next morning, right nerling and before I could say hello, like,
(27:08):
I didn't even get my hello out.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So are you okay? Is Shenon like okay?
Speaker 5 (27:13):
I'm like and I felt like saying, are you freaking
kidding me?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You do? You've just been shot?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, maybe focus on yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I know that clip was a little long, but I
felt like it was important to get the kind of
story of that day.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I just got the book and see how close they
were because this is her daughter's photo of before this happened. Yeah,
just incredible stuff. And I think, you know, his reaction
to that was just so genuinely brave and impressive.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It really was kind of astounding.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I think I had I had new different respect for
him after this happened. I also would like to add
that the comforatory family should stay in our prayers. You know,
his widow lost her husband a year ago this week,
and he had daughters, and you know, very sad that
that happened on that day. I think we were spared right,
(28:12):
a tremendous tragedy, although not all of it tragedy the
way the way this country would have spun out had
something they actually succeeded, had he had the shooter actually succeeded,
I just can't even comprehend.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I don't know if we would have gotten over it,
I really don't. I have to say that. You know,
the right loves their conspiracies, but the left continues to
push the idea that this somehow was faked. Adam Parkomenko,
who was a dnc Field director in twenty sixteen, tweeted,
(28:48):
if they could lie about the Epstein list, they would
lie about Butler too. Somebody, Telvin Griffin, who is in
Hollywood apparently got Academy Award nominated film whatever, has a
following on X. We're getting closer and closer to the
truth that the Butler assassination attempt was fake and stage
(29:10):
here's the worst part of it all and innocent man died.
They did this because the momentum of the election was
strongly in Kamala Harris's favor and they had no game
plan for her. Kamala Harris wasn't running yet, so and
I don't remember the momentum ever being strongly in her favor.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
No, it wasn't, That's just that true.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Yeah, yeah, And they wanted to shift the momentum, so
they thought they'd take a shot at their own candidate, Like,
how does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Who would be who would be barely missed in a
headshot by hitting his ear?
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I was gonna say, now, now that I.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Shoot guns, I can tell you with some certainty that
trying to shoot someone in the ear is not a thing.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And that Trump would be like, sure, I'll sign up
for that, Yeah, no problem.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
The shooter, of course, killed on the scene, was Thomas
Matthew Crooks, a twenty year old, and I would I
would like to know more about him and more about
how we're preventing said things for the future. I appreciated
the brief moment when everybody was left and right, we're
together asking questions about the Secret Service and going.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Like what happened year? What happened.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
AOC actually had a couple of very good moments asking
those questions, and in general I would just like to
see more reflection.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
On this, more normal after more normal behavior.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, after the congressional baseball shooting too, where very few
people know the date of that shooting. It was June fourteenth,
twenty seventeen, and the next first of all, it got
like forty eight hours of coverage maybe maybe not even that,
like wall to wall coverage an attempted mass murder of
congressional members. A year later, there was almost nothing in commemoration.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Crazy. Yeah, unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
These moments are important.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
We should do better on that, We really should.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Well. Thanks for joining us on normally Normally airs Tuesdays
and Thursdays, and.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
You could subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally
Yeah, we are back on normally the show with normalish
takes or when the news gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am Mary Catherine Camp and.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I'm Carol Markowitz. Another relaxing weekend. Mary Catherine.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I was saying, like, I can't, I can't engage with this,
like when the whole cooj is fighting with each other
on Friday night. I'm like, nah, yeah, I'm checking out.
And I went and got my kids. They were with
the grandparents for a week, and I went on a
road trip with all four kids to pick them up
and bring them back. And it was one of those
days I'm sure you've had them where everything went haywire,
(00:36):
like we ate an epic storm where people are driving
with their flashers on just so they can be seen.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, I get the big kids.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Every single thing I had planned to do with the
four of them was either.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Happen right out. There was no power.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
At the places we wanted to go because of the galleon,
and we ended up eating at waffle house and like
waiting in a creek.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So if you haven't wonder.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
That sounds perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Actually, like just just revert to redneck when disaster strikes.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
That okay, Yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Know, I have three kids, you have four kids.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I saw a mom on a plane yesterday with four kids,
and I always am like I wish I had a fourth,
Like I wish we had, you know, gotten for it.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
That fourth kid. It's it really does add a lot
of kid.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Just the counting of heads, like when you're in a
public space becomes larger.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
But we did have a wonderful time. It was a disastrous,
wonderful day.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So yeah, amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
All right, Well, we're not going to get into the
Epstein stuff today. We are going to see how it
shakes out in the next day or two. I know,
we get accused of like not covering some topics because
we are you know, we wait and see, but we've
not been wrong on the waiting and seeing yet.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
It's a really good skill to have for a normous Yeah. Yeah, like,
is anyone going to quit? I would like to see
and then we'll discuss, Right.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
We will watch it play out and then we'll talk
about it. But we probably will.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Get into it for Wednesday's episode, depending on how the
next day or two shake out. But we'll start today
with our last president, Joe Biden and his cooky administration.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Wow, what have they been up to. Well, here's the
first thing that's good. So the news story is that
the New York Times gets an interview with Joe Biden
in which he says, yeah, in these giant categories of
pardons that you've all been wondering about where people were
controversially let off the hook, and these giant tranches of pardons, yeah,
(02:39):
I theoretically said yes to those, but no, not I
did not sign all of them. The autopen was used
to a great degree in those large groupings.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Let me read you the quote.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Mister Biden did not individually approve each name for the
categorical pardons that applied to large numbers of people.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He and the AIDS confirmed.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Rather, after extensive discussion of different possible criteria, he signed
off on the standards he wanted to be used to
determine which convicts would qualify for a reduction in sentence.
Now people are comparing this to January sixth pardons by
Donald Trump. Whatever you think of those pardons, Donald Trump
(03:21):
signed those pardons on camera.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
They were not signed by who knows who with an autopen.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Donald Trump might not be able to name every January
six six er. But that's irrelevant because we saw him
sign the pardons, and this is an entirely different story.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, and I just think all of it goes back
to the question is not whether it's okay for an
autopin to do things we have all agreed to some extent,
sure that that happens in a presidency.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The question is whether the person in charge.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Of saying that the autopen could sign things was of
a state of mind where he could actually agree to
those things. Yeah, exactly in Biden's case, especially with some
of these more controversial things, it's real unclear that's exactly
where he was, and it makes me uncomfortable. Although I
do think the pardon power is so clear and extensive
(04:18):
that there's probably not a lot to be done except
for to expose what happened, which is I sure there's consequences.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Which is a step forward, and again finding out who
was running the country during that time. I love this
part of the New York Times article. Mister Trump, asked
by a reporter last month whether he had uncovered evidence
that anything had been illegally signed without mister Biden's knowledge,
said no, but he cited his rival's debate performance in
June twenty twenty four, when mister Biden eighty one at
(04:46):
the time, delivered halting and meandering answers. Mister Biden withdrew
soon after his reelection bid quote, I've uncovered, you know,
the human mind. Mister Trump said, I was in the
debate with the human mind, and I didn't think he
knew what the hell he was doing.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
End quote. Fair.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Fair. The other part of this reporting says, so he's
given the strictures or the he's talked, he signs off
on the guidelines for what a group of pardons should reflect.
But then it goes on to say even after mister
Biden made that decision, One former AID said, the Bureau
of Prisons kept providing additional information about specific inmates, resulting
(05:22):
in small changes to the list.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Rather than ask.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Mister Biden, who this is my parentthetical was probably napping or.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Comotos or what have you. Are given times right on
the beach.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Rather than asking mister Biden to keep signing revised versions,
his staff waited and then ran the final version through
the auto pen, which they saw as a routine procedure.
The AID said, that's an interesting sentence because it does
not include a check back, either over a phone or
in person yep or anything. No, there's no conferencing with
(05:56):
the president on Oh, we made a few changes.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right, we added people.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
I mean it has to be through the president, and
that goes unmentioned. I also liked that the New York
Times headline was, of course, a variation on the Republicans
pounced theme right right?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Donald Dr.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Trump and his allies had begun investigations to support their
claims that Joseph bar Biden Junior was incapacitated and his
staff conspired to take presidential actions in his name.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, he was incapacitated, but his staff was empowered.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
To take actions in his name. Like that's the problem.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Why are you pouncing, Mary Catherine?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Like, pouncing on the truth is pretty is a pretty
decent thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Do you think we find out who was running the
White House?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Probably not really.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I don't think kjp's book is an independent tells us anything.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
No. No, I mean, look, I think that's.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
The only way her book sells though.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So that's true.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But I think she's going to critique him from the left,
and she is not interested in exposing what actually went down,
like that would be interesting. I mean, she certainly had
a front row seat right, although like she's not a
person of discernment, so who knows what you would get.
But I just think this is one of those things
where because largely the presses to the left, they're all
(07:20):
going to be like, see, it's one of those things
where you can't talk about it while it's happening because
that's rude and conspiracy theorizing, and then you can't talk
about it after it happened because that's old news and
why would we talk about that? And I'm like, that's amazing,
it's very recent, and I feel like we should talk
about it. So I appreciate Republicans investigating it, and I
think that such that we get answers, that'll be the
(07:43):
only place because unless there's a follow up to all
these tellaws about the campaign that include what the hell
happened for four years, I don't think we're getting it right.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And I don't know that Senate and House Republicans can
get to the bottom of this either, although I would
like to see them continue to try.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
This is important.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It's not nothing story imp This is like we elect
someone to run the country and that someone was really
unable to do that for those last four years and
somebody else was taking his place. Maybe it was multiple people,
maybe it was many people, But I'd like to know that.
And I want to know who covered it up and
how it all went down. And these kinds of asides
(08:26):
about him not really participating in the autopen signing of
these pardons. It's a step in the right direction of
telling that story.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Also, can we just note why is he giving interviews?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Why is he giving interviews? I don't know, Like.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Everyone who had a part in said scandal that we
have just explicated is like, please please stop talking, praise please?
Why are you talking to the New York Times? Yeah,
because I think someone made this point on Twitter. I
forget who it was. But Trump has not had a
great price, even though he should because of the big,
(09:02):
beautiful bill.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And the NonStop wins.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, however, because of the Epstein stuff, which we're talking
about later in the week, he has had not a
great day and a half several days of coverage and
what does this do? This just you knights, all the
people of the right again to be like, look at
what we were enduring.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Yep and he you know, so many times during the
campaign Biden kept inserting himself into the conversations and making
himself the story even you know, even while he was
still running in a negative way.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And so this is just a continuation of that.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
One of the other things they mentioned in the story
that we didn't actually get to last week, but Biden's
former doctor testified in front of lawmakers or answered questions
from lawmakers last week, and he pled the fifth when
he was asked whether the President Biden was.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Fit to serve.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
That's a huge story in and of itself that his
doctor is pleading the fifth and not wanting to answer
questions about what he knew about his condition at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, he just like kind of walked out of the
part of that gathering, which was I think closed press.
It was like a you know, under oath, but in
a in a closed setting situation.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I do think we're in a we're in a pickle
about how we deal with these issues in the future
because the press will only want to use a new
rubric with Donald Trump, like, oh, well, we really got
burned by that Biden guy, but we're going to use
this very strict standard now to Donald Trump, and Republicans
will not accept that. So it's kind of like looking forward,
I think the big hack might be just like someone
(10:44):
under seventy.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Yeah, well, good luck, that's my that's my governing hack everyone.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
That would be nice.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I'm not sure we're going to be counting on that,
although I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
The future field.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Does look more youthful, but I think they're going to
sneak in some eighty year olds, right and.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Next president, eighty five year old Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Love it, love it. We're heading there.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Ah, well, we're going to take a short break and
come right back with more normally.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
We are back with normally. Thank you for sticking around.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Graduation rates are up, but SAT scores are down.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, that's a little thing called social promotion.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Right, So apparently kids are doing worse than.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Ever on the SAT, but graduation rates continue to climb.
And Americans for School Oversight on x posted that teachers
are being told to give fifty percent even when students
skip tests or turn in nothing failure rate to suppress
to protect the system, not student learning.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
This does not seem like a good idea.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
This seems like letting a bunch of people who are
unprepared for a lot of things, for higher learning, for
life out into the world without the proper preparation.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, it's a recipe for disaster. Lowering the bar is
not wise. One of the things that they discovered in
this literacy surge in places like Louisiana, Alabama, tennesse that
are doing better than in all demographics versus other states,
is it. One of the things they implemented in those
(12:34):
states was to say, if you have not learned the
basics of literacy, if you are not reading by third grade,
we have to hold you back. We will not be
letting you forward even though you have if you haven't.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Hit it's the way to go.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And in all.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Those states, everyone freaked out and was like, no, we'll
have to hold back so many students. And what happened
in reality was that it lit a fire under adults
because there wasn't actual consequences consequence. They were like, oh crap,
we have to spend these years actually teaching them to read,
all right, And students no doubt responded to the higher
(13:10):
bar as well, And you end up with not that
many holdbacks because people were accomplishing the skill. So if
you take away that part of the system, yeah, there's
no skills.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I really do think that people need like I mean,
I for sure need like deadlines or you know, accountability.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I need stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
In order to work, Like like I have a substack
and I write on it in frequently. I'm trying to
do better for people who follow and pay for my subjects.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Sorry about that, I feel you.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
But if I don't have a deadline, if I don't
have a marker, it's very hard to do. And you know,
on the flip side of this, I have a friend
who has a son with special needs, and she wanted
him to repeat a grade because she felt he wasn't
prepared enough and they just wanted to keep promoting him,
and she wanted him to, you know, stay in the
(14:04):
same class, get a real handle on the information, be
able to proceed to the next grade really with confidence.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And she had to fight her school system in order
to make that happen. And he was clearly not prepared
for the next grade.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So you know, I'm sure there are parents who worry
about their kids not being promoted to the next grade.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
But there's also the parents.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Who think, my kid could use another year of this
and they're not allowed to do that.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Well, and standardized test scores get a bad rap standardized
tests in general get a bad rap. I understand the concerns,
and some of them are very real. They also mean
something as a gauge they actually do, and all these
colleges that have tried to toss them out have come
up with pretty bad results as a result of that decision.
(14:51):
I want a note from There's a New York Times
up ed on standardized testing, which of course was only
written from a leftist perspective, to say, Linda McMahon is
going to ruin standardized testing, which they were never big
fans of before, but it makes this important point. Standardized
testing isn't perfect, and I'm sympathetic to the argument that
it can hamper teacher autonomy in the classroom, but there
(15:11):
is evidence that without standardized testing, parents have little awareness
of their children's deficits.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
In part because of great inflation.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Over the past few decades, test scores have gone down
while grades have gone up. The issue, which predated the
pandemic is known as the honesty gap. I will add
that the honesty gap got larger after the pandemic. So
my district, because they shut down school for so long,
dispensed with their apples to Apple's stats comparison in a
lot of areas because they were like, ooh, that's going
(15:39):
to look bad for us. And so in a lot
of cases, the less standardized testing, the more they're trying
to cover up, and covering it up isn't helping anyone.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah. Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I actually wrote against the Gifted and Talented Test in
New York City when my kids were little, because I
thought it was ridiculous to give a five year old
a standardized test. And even though my daughter like aced it,
I still thought it was ridiculous, and so I wrote
about it.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
And I have completely changed my mind about it, in
part because they got rid of the test and they.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Started going by like teacher recommendations and that kind of thing,
which is so easily played. And the Gifted and Talented
schools are like in steep decline because they got rid
of that test. It just standardization makes it fairer. Everything
else can be gamed, can be played. You can, you know,
ask the teacher to give your kid the recommendation that
(16:36):
they need.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
An interesting point.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
About the results and the failure rates. Ex teacher Frank McCormick,
who tweets at cb heresy on X, posted the results
that we talk about, and noted that when he was
a teacher, despite being rated excellent, my principal told me
that my failure rate was too high and to fix
it if I wanted to come back next year. He
(17:00):
was reprimanded for holding students accountable and rewarded for fabricating grades.
He writes, I have never been more depressed and demoralized.
That's the other side of this is that teachers don't
want to be socially promoting these kids. They want them
to actually learn, and we're putting everybody in a tough
situation with this kind of behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Can I note one quick stat also that as sort
of encouraging that was bouncing around the educational X of
areas this week, which is that, oh lo and behold
another one that makes levels a little uncomfortable. Family structure
matters to student achievements.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
This is a University of Virginia study called Godfather's Flourishing Kids,
which came out just recently, and I'm glad it got
quite a bit of attention in those circles on X
and not just from right leading, right leading people for
this reason. This is in the seventy four the research
led by my AEI colleague Brad Wilcox, and co authored
by a diverse team that includes another AI colleague, finds
(18:01):
that children in Virginia with actively involved fathers are more
likely to earn good grades, less likely to have behavior
problems in school, and dramatically less likely to suffer from depression. Specifically,
children with disengaged fathers are sixty eight percent less likely
to get mostly good grades and nearly four times is
likely to be diagnosed with depression. These are not trivial effects,
and importantly, basically the entire achievement gap on race basis
(18:27):
is erased if you put black, white Hispanic students with
two engaged parents together in a co If you compare those,
the stability of the family overcomes a race issue every time.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Right, Yeah, there was a popular story, maybe like a
year and a half ago, two years ago. I covered
it a lot on the Carol Marko Wood Show, but
economist Melissa Kearney, who was.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
A left leaning economist, found that, you.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Know, basically, children raised by married parents have better outcomes
across the board.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
And it wasn't something that.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
She wanted to find, and that's what she discovered in
her work and all of her the people she worked
with were like, you cannot say this, and once you
get to even if this helps children, you cannot admit
the truth.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
It's a very dangerous place to be.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And that's where a lot of lefty academics get. Just
to make my somewhat muddled version of that clearer, this
writer writes, if a black or Hispanic student is raised
in a religious home with two biological parents, the achievement
gap totally disappears, even when adjusting for socioeconomic status. I mean,
this is powerful stuff because presumably we would all like
(19:39):
children to achieve and read and learn as that teacher does.
There are a lot of unions who might think different,
who are trying to cover all this up. Up next,
we have some reflections on July thirteenth, twenty twenty four
in the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, which weird the
media is not covering a ton.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I know we'll be back on normally, all.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Right, Carol, Well, it has been one year since a
seismic event in American politics. In American history, the one
year commemorations are not that common, but it is the
assassination attempt on one Donald J. Trump when he was
at a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, July thirteenth, twenty twenty four.
(20:23):
And I just wanted to talk about it a little
bit because.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
It's being undercovered, right.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
It was like a giant story that barely gets any
kind of mention at all.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Where were you when you heard that?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Oh, I have a very interesting story about that. I
was on a plane full of journals, oh, on our
way to the RNC, and the plane did not have
Wi Fi. We happened to all be on a plane
without wife. So and it's like everyone's on this plane BBC, CNN,
like Tappers up there, Chuck Todd's over here, right.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'm way in the back, probably have bought my ticket late,
like I do. I'm way in the back of the
plane and I did.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Sorry, TSA or whoever's in charge of this FA I
turned on my phone early to try to catch a
signal and see what it was. I didn't The plane
was fine, so I don't think it's a safety issue.
I turned it on, caught a signal, and I start
getting these texts from people I trust. So it wasn't
like a you know, like this is a made up
(21:27):
rumor thing. It was from like guy Benson, who was
following up from my husband, who's following up with very
specific things. And what happened is I think I was
the first person on the plane.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
To know that this had happened.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Did you stand up and were like?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I actually thought about doing that, But much like the
fear you have when you're breaking something, I was like,
what if this turns out to be not what I
think it is? And I had no way to back
up my information aside from like the two and a
half texts I had received.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But yes, I was on that plane.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And then once we landed, of course everybody turns on
their phones and it goes like wildfire.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I knew.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I didn't tell the BBC gall next to me. I
was like, hey, you media. She's like yeah, and I
was like, I think President Trump was shot. She's like,
so it goes like wild through fire through the plane.
And I will say this for the journals. When we
exited that plane, it was silent because everyone was in
the throes of this is actually potentially extremely tragic.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And all very interesting. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I was a little bit proud of them, and in
that moment, obviously very quickly it turns into nonsense.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Again.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Yeah, they didn't really cover themselves in Glory where all
some of the headlines were like Donald Trump falls on stage.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
In that moment, though, on that plane it was treated
as very solemn and grave and very very very serious.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I was.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
I had just woken up in Singapore and I had
gotten a text from our best friends and saying, hey,
I know you're away, but someone just took a shot
at Donald Trump, and I like sat up in bed
just like, oh my god, you know, is he okay?
Like just I feared the worst, obviously, like I guess
a lot of people would.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And the fact.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
That it missed the bullet missed him by such a
tiny amount, by such a tiny, you know, measure, is
really miraculous. And I, you know, he seems like he
has leaned on his faith a little bit since then,
and I totally get why he talks about God in
(23:37):
a way that he did.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Not before that.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And I really do feel like I understand it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I had Selena Zito on the Carol Marco wid show
a few months ago talking about her new book Butler.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I'm gonna play a little clip. She was there that day.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
She was right in front of Donald Trump, and this
is her describing what happened.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
And you know, if you've never been to a rally,
you don't understand. But the relationship between him and the
people that are attending it is very transactional. He feeds
off of them, they feed off of him. And this
isn't a positive way. This is a very sort of
aspirational way. People believe they are part of something bigger
(24:19):
than themselves, and Chump intuitively understands that he is as well.
He's part of it, He's part of them. It's not
just about him, it's about everybody there. So because of that,
he never looks away from the crop. He'll move his
he'll move his body and look at different size, like
(24:39):
turn around and look at the crowds around.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Rights has notes or anything.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Yeah, so two things happen simultaneously that never happened. He
brings a chart down.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I'm like, what is he?
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Ross Perot like, he never has a chart?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Amazing.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
And then he turns away from the crop and he
never does that. And at that moment, I hear pop
pop pop pop. The bullets fly right over. I watch
him go down, but he takes himself down. I note that,
like it's really weird. You know how they always say
things happen in slow motion. They absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Really, I can see him.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Go down, I can see him hold his ear. I
see the Secret Service go around him. You remember, I'm
like four feet away from him at this point.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And is your daughter snapping pictures my dog?
Speaker 5 (25:31):
Yeah, we're We don't stop working until the second four
bullets go by and Michelle takes us step the campaign
press guy, he's amazing. He's my hero. He Michelle Licard.
I will love him forever. He was so protective of
all of us. And I can I can hear the
(25:54):
whole conversation he is having with the Secret Service, and
you know, like about when to go up, and you
know that the shooter is dead, and you can hear
them talking. You can hear the rain, I can hear
the radios just because of how close you a and.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
I can.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
It was a little bit funny. It's funnier now. It
was a little bit funny.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
In the moment.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
And hear him like they want him to get up
and want me to be up, but he's like basically saying,
I need to put my damn shoes on right like
his someone had knocked his shoes off and and I
hear one agent sigh like okay, all right, like okay,
put your shoes on right.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
And they get his shoes off.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That's so weird.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
And then he comes off the stage. He goes right
past me. There is an agent that holds a gun
right in our heads as he's going past, because they
still don't know what. And so I did not go
to Bedminster that day, no, obviously. But he calls me
the next morning, right nerling and before I could say hello, like,
(27:08):
I didn't even get my hello out.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So are you okay? Is Shenon like okay?
Speaker 5 (27:13):
I'm like and I felt like saying, are you freaking
kidding me?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You do? You've just been shot?
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, maybe focus on yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I know that clip was a little long, but I
felt like it was important to get the kind of
story of that day.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I just got the book and see how close they
were because this is her daughter's photo of before this happened. Yeah,
just incredible stuff. And I think, you know, his reaction
to that was just so genuinely brave and impressive.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It really was kind of astounding.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I think I had I had new different respect for
him after this happened. I also would like to add
that the comforatory family should stay in our prayers. You know,
his widow lost her husband a year ago this week,
and he had daughters, and you know, very sad that
that happened on that day. I think we were spared right,
(28:12):
a tremendous tragedy, although not all of it tragedy the
way the way this country would have spun out had
something they actually succeeded, had he had the shooter actually succeeded,
I just can't even comprehend.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I don't know if we would have gotten over it,
I really don't. I have to say that. You know,
the right loves their conspiracies, but the left continues to
push the idea that this somehow was faked. Adam Parkomenko,
who was a dnc Field director in twenty sixteen, tweeted,
(28:48):
if they could lie about the Epstein list, they would
lie about Butler too. Somebody, Telvin Griffin, who is in
Hollywood apparently got Academy Award nominated film whatever, has a
following on X. We're getting closer and closer to the
truth that the Butler assassination attempt was fake and stage
(29:10):
here's the worst part of it all and innocent man died.
They did this because the momentum of the election was
strongly in Kamala Harris's favor and they had no game
plan for her. Kamala Harris wasn't running yet, so and
I don't remember the momentum ever being strongly in her favor.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
No, it wasn't, That's just that true.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Yeah, yeah, And they wanted to shift the momentum, so
they thought they'd take a shot at their own candidate, Like,
how does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Who would be who would be barely missed in a
headshot by hitting his ear?
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I was gonna say, now, now that I.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Shoot guns, I can tell you with some certainty that
trying to shoot someone in the ear is not a thing.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And that Trump would be like, sure, I'll sign up
for that, Yeah, no problem.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
The shooter, of course, killed on the scene, was Thomas
Matthew Crooks, a twenty year old, and I would I
would like to know more about him and more about
how we're preventing said things for the future. I appreciated
the brief moment when everybody was left and right, we're
together asking questions about the Secret Service and going.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Like what happened year? What happened.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
AOC actually had a couple of very good moments asking
those questions, and in general I would just like to
see more reflection.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
On this, more normal after more normal behavior.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, after the congressional baseball shooting too, where very few
people know the date of that shooting. It was June fourteenth,
twenty seventeen, and the next first of all, it got
like forty eight hours of coverage maybe maybe not even that,
like wall to wall coverage an attempted mass murder of
congressional members. A year later, there was almost nothing in commemoration.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Crazy. Yeah, unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
These moments are important.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
We should do better on that, We really should.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Well. Thanks for joining us on normally Normally airs Tuesdays
and Thursdays, and.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
You could subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally
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