June 19, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine and Karol discuss the Supreme Court ruling that upheld Tennessee's ban on gender-affirming care for minors. They explore the implications of this ruling, public opinion on the issue, and the political ramifications for the Democratic Party. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes NORMALLY debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
As far back on.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Normally, the show with normalis takes from when the news
gets weird.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I am Mark.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Havin Ham and I'm Carol Markowitz, and I'm not sure
is this the special episode? It was a special episode yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We're just doing a lot of special episodes. Is what's happening?
Because we cannot rest. There's no rest allowed.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
But yeah, this is our first time having three episodes
in one week. It's been a big news week and
we felt like we couldn't just miss out on commenting
on all of it. So here we are again. The
US Supreme Court today upheld the Tennessee van on youth.
They call it Gender firm and Care. We know it
(00:43):
as access to puberty blockers, hormone treatments, sometimes surgery. It's
called the Scrimmetti ruling, and it came down today, so
we felt like we had to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, and this is based on a twenty twenty three
law in Tennessee. It's called sp BE one that banned
this kind of treatment for transgender children and teens in
the state of Tennessee. It stipulates that you can still
use hormone therapy for people who have precocious puberty, who
(01:15):
people who have stalled out and have other.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Forms of issues.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The question before the court was basically like does this
violate the equal Protection Clause? And with a vote of
six to three, the Justice has decided that it does not.
They said that it did not discriminate based on sex.
They said that transgender was not a suspect or a
semi suspect class that would be those two things would
(01:45):
make it this laws subject to higher levels of scrutinary scrutiny.
And so the interesting thing. Part of the interesting thing
to me too is that Roberts is writing for the
court and to have Roberts just bat down each of
these arguments, so I think that's fairly like more powerful
and more unexpected than coming from someone who you assumed
(02:07):
would be on this side of it. So an interesting,
an interesting win for normalcy. Frankly, Yeah, normal.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Wins today that you know, it doesn't win every day,
but it won today, and it's it's nice to see
it because well, like we talk about on the show
a lot, it's it's tough to find. And I think
that this ruling really puts the Democrats into, uh backs
them into a corner that they are having trouble getting
(02:37):
out of which is their two main issues are extremely
unpopular with the American public. The Washington Post tried to
call this this ruling on a polarizing issue that the
Trump administration has seized on, and Matt Whitlock notes on
X it's actually not polarizing. The Washington Post's own polling
found that overwhelming majority of American support banning sex change
(03:00):
treatments and surgeries for children. The Supreme Court upheld Tennessee's
right to take that popular action.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Wait, and do you know who actually seized upon it?
The Biden administration worked with the transgender teens to bring
this to the Supreme Court. The whole reason it's at
the Supreme Court is because the Biden administration was like, nah,
y'all can't do this. They actually seized upon it. The
Trump administration ended up in this position with it going
(03:27):
to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Absolutely, And so also Matt Woodlock points out that the
Post's own polling and he said, he points out, you know,
waypo is obviously not a conservative. Pollster found sixty eight
percent support for banning access to puberty blockers for kids
ten to fourteen and fifty eight percent for banning hormone
treatments for kids fifteen to seventeen. And this was in
(03:49):
twenty twenty two, before this really blew up as an issue,
and those numbers have only gone up since.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
A couple of mainstream media headlines, just to add to
your collection breaking this is ap the the Supreme Court
upholds a Tennessee ban on gender affirming care for transgender miners.
In a quote that's not it's actually it's not in quotes.
This is just them in a huge setback for transgender rights.
That's not a fair news headline at all. Another organization
(04:18):
said it authorizes harm for many transgender people in the US.
It's like authorized is harm. They're just dealing with They're
dealing with the question of whether a Tennessee law violates
federal law of the Constitution, and they found that it
doesn't either. That's it right, right anyway? Can you imagine
(04:40):
going back to yourself in twenty twelve and telling yourself
in twenty twelve that in twenty twenty five it would
be a question put before the court whether a state
has the power to say no, under eighteen, you're not
allowed to have sex change surgery and hormones can you imagine.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I just think the world has lost their mind, and
actually not the world, just us, really just us. Most
European countries completely ban again what people call gender firming
care for minors, and it's just it's not acceptable in
so many different places. Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands all have
policies about not allowing this kind of thing, like puberty
(05:27):
blockers and hormone treatments. I believe Denmark recently joined that list.
There's like it is just it's really only America. And
I know I saw you get into it with the
American Academy of Pediatrics today.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Their statement is, the American Academy of Pediatric stance firmly
with pediatricians and families making healthcare decisions together and free
from political interference. We remain committed to advancing care that
protects the health, safety, and dignity of all children. And then,
in their tweet, gender affirming care remains evidence based, medically
necessary care that improves the health and well being of
(06:07):
transgender use. That's the part where they're tripping up on. Okay,
American Academy of Pediatrics is determined to be untrustworthy in
anything thorny, or they refuse to be smart, they refuse
to be nuanced, they refuse to look at changing evidence
or evidence at all because they're interested in signaling first.
And what Europe has done is followed the evidence and
(06:28):
they have found this is either not convincing or there's
countervailing evidence that this is actually quite damaging to children,
and so they have cut it out. The American Academy
of Pediatrics is like, nah, this is evidence based, and
the truth is that the data is not there. And
when the data is there, it's either not convincing or
it's the opposite. I mean, it's like goes the opposite direction.
(06:49):
So if they were following the evidence, and if they
were an evidence based organization, which we know from COVID
that they decided not to be, they would come to
and conclusions. And it is I know, I'm not surprised,
but it is discouraging to watch all of these institutions
fail to be smart.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
This is your job, yeah, And the fact that they
are such an outlier, like a lot of what we
heard during for example, COVID or in other times when
conservatives are not the majority position, you hear this like, well,
we all agree on this, so you must be wrong
in this case. They do not all agree on it.
(07:32):
They are pushing ahead with this anyway. One interesting note
is that Justice Thomas had a footnote in the ruling
where he points out that Chase Strangio, who is the
co director of the American Civil Liberties Union, and he
was the lawyer who brought this case to the Supreme
Court on the side of wanting Tennessee to overturn their
(07:56):
ban on hormone and other therapies. Thomas points out that
Strangio had conceded that medical treatment actually did nothing to
minimize the risk of suicide and kids who were having
issues with their gender. So it's you know, parents are
(08:20):
lied to that if you don't enforce this, if you
don't support this, your kid could kill themselves. Right. The
whole thing was, you know, would you rather have a
dead girl or a live boy? And it's wrong. And
it's also just wrong on the facts because getting them
(08:40):
hormone blockers and putting them on any kind of treatment
as a child does not actually minimize the risk of suicide.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And just the idea that that kind of advice from
a medical professional is just a wholly emotional Blackmaile, has
nothing to do with the condition of your child, has
nothing to do with the evidence.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
We now know.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's horribly abusive for a provider to talk to parents
that way. It's coercive, it's nasty. It's just like which
doctor stuff. And you should you should not be doing.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That with your patients.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You should be having rational conversations with them about cost
benefit analyses.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
But again, as we learned during COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
A lot of people capable of doing that. I do
think one of the downsides for the ACLU and transgender
activists and those who align with them about this case
is that it brought forward exactly that it's Strangio and
the ACLU's arguments and.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
The data are weak.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
There's real week and that was brought to the four
because the Biden administration and Strangio and the ACLU and
all their fellow travelers decided we got to go to
Supreme Court on this. And what they may have ended
up doing is putting down a lot of precedent that
they didn't intend to put down, and they may have
put out a lot of info that gets a lot
(10:06):
more attention that they want it to be getting.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, this is again going back to the political political
ramifications of it. It's baffling to me that this is
what the Democrats have decided is their key issue and
it's so unpopular with the American people. Look, we've said
it on the show before. Do we think Democrats are
never going to win again? Of course not, of course,
not that you know, there's two political parties in America.
(10:32):
One of them wins some of the time, the other
one wins the other some of the time. And it's
i you know, there's no part of me that thinks
all the Democrats are out of the out of the ballgame.
But the fact is that it's June twenty twenty five,
and their two top issues are making sure that boys
can play in girls' sports and that kids and teens
(10:54):
get you know, hormone blockers and potentially surgery. And their
second issue is protecting the rights of the llegal immigrants
who are in the country without having gotten permission to
be here. And that is the two things that they
seem to care about the most. And it is just again,
I'm sure they'll win again someday, but very very hard
(11:15):
to see that right now.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I don't get it. Again.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
This is why I just think they're unable to make
a turn, they're unable to pivot. I think they were
unable to see that Strangio's arguments weren't great. I listened
to the oral arguments and was unimpressed. The briefs had
all sorts of bad information in them for that side
of the case. And Justine Thomas noted in his concurrence
(11:43):
today he said states are never required to substitute expert
opinion for their legislative judgment, and when the experts appear
to have compromised their credibility, it makes good sense to
chart a different course. Courts should not assume that self
described experts are correct, and can we sit to.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Those in the back as we learned during COVID.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Like we should write a book called as we Learned
during COVID, like the AAP.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
The people telling you this stuff, even your own provider,
sometimes they are incorrect. Their data is not there. They're
not They're sometimes not familiar with the data and pretend
to be. And it's so this is like a real
blow for sanity, and it's it's funny. I was actually
at a I think I remember vaguely.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
It was a children's.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Birthday party in about twenty twelve, and like my friends
and I had just started having kids.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
This is like a one year old's birthday party.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And I was standing around with a couple of a
couple of fellow politicos, and the transgender thing had sort
of just started to become part of the conversation and
we can decide whether to bleep this or not.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
But I said, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I gotta say, if Democrats decide that penis and are
just not a thing anymore and they mean nothing, I
don't think that.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Will go well for them.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Good call.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And it took many years for that prophecy to come true,
but that was the discussion to day.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
But we were far away from the children when I
said this, right, it occurs sometimes they were one.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
They were like clear of my influence. At this point,
I have to.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Say that I used to be Again I may have
mentioned this before, but I used to consider myself somebody
that would be considered pro trands. I used all the
pronouns that people would want to use. It really was
them coming for the children that shook me out of it.
And I know, like the path that I took to
get here, I know that like things got crazier and
(13:48):
crazier and crazier. I wrote about it this at one
point that I was banned from a liberal site I
used to comment on because I said that trans people
have to disclose it and that became something unaccepted to stay.
And as they kept pushing the envelope, they lost people
like me who would generally be on the side of
let people do whatever they want and let them live
(14:10):
how they want. But coming for the kids that was
the dividing line for me. For many Americans, we could
look back to a few years ago and this was
not an issue at all until it started coming for
the kids.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, my two breaking points with it because like at
that particular time, it wasn't really like at.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
The forefront of political issues. It had just.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Become something that lefty activists were discussing and so politicos
were interested in that, and I was like, I just
don't think this is going to turn out.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Well, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Sure the media and voter is there with them on this,
but yeah, I think I would have been of a
more libertarian bent until the policing of language and the
kid stuff, right, And I believe in our in guys.
In my book, in a discussion is twenty fifteen, shortly after.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
This has become a national issue.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yes, it's still applicable, unfortunately, but an end of discussion.
We noted that when it comes to trans issues, which
is a particularly speech policed area with a lot of
people willing to get you fired for saying the wrong things,
at one point some coalition of trans allies and groups posted,
(15:23):
I believe a monthly if not weekly, update of language
that was okay to use, and we used that to say, hey,
this just seems.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Like a no win situation.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
If we're going to go down this path, we can't
do monthly updates to everybody's acceptable language on these issues.
And so those two things combined certainly gave me pause,
and I think have given many, many many people pause.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, that's definitely a big part of it. Also, teachers
getting in trouble for not using the pronoun that the
teenager made up this week is clearly a huge issue.
Things like that just drove people away from you know
what would have been a non issue not that long ago.
I also like to say, you know, I love that
(16:08):
movie The Crying Game. And when that Crying Game came out,
that movie was seen as a very, very pro trans movie,
a guy falls in love with a trans woman and
tries to overlook it, but it's really hard. But he
ultimately is in love with this woman who was once
a man, and that was seen as very very pro trans.
That movie would be anti trans today. Oh yes, he
(16:30):
refers to her as a man. He says, you know,
she says, I'm just a girl, and he says, but
you're not a girl. And you know, things like that
would be completely not allowed now. And they you know,
they drove people away, and that's just the reality of it.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
We'll be right back on normally.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
We do have one more bit of news just to
light in the mood here, which is that Trump has
installed at least one I don't know if he's done
both of them, but a one hundred foot flagpole, yeah,
I think with a giant a giant American flag on
it on the White House lawn is huge.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
It's like, you know, Texas sise huge.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I mean, it's it is both.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's it's like car dealership on a Texas highway level.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's what it should be.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
You know, when I get to Texas and I see
those car dealerships with their American flag, I'm like this
is what living is all about, Like this is what
it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Like, yeah, it's uh, it looks like that, and I look.
Uh the guy's into construction, which is good because this
is a very tall in my flagpole. So he's he's
assured us of all the specs on this thing. I
do enjoy that, like the next Democratic president is going
to have to be like I can't. I can't even
(17:54):
if I have aesthetic issues with the take picture of that.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
You can't do anything about it. Like it's just it's there.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
For right, forever and ever. So I can't wait to
go see it. I didn't realize that the flag was
Texas size.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean it's it looks very large in the anyone
this coming right, there's maybe two.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Now they have like a two.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Don't they have a part two hole out there on
the do as well. Yeah, the professional golfer was like
golfing out on the White House lawn.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Incredible.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Trump is yolowing with the designs of the old White
House this.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Time I have you know, we have our ups and downs,
Donald Trump and I. This has been a very upweek
for our relationship. I have been super into Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
This week.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I think you know on Iran he is one of
the clearest voices ever. I just it's it's unbelievable to
watch him in action. Sees everything so clearly in a
way that I just even other Republicans I don't think
see it quite like he does. And I've just been
I'm in a good place with with with the Donald,
T and I besties right now.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
A good A good week for the Donald, so yeah,
and a good week for us here at normal We're
a lot of stuff episodes.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I mean, you know, I don't know. We can't promise
three episodes always, but well we'll do our best, right.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
We felt like this one was important.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, it was important, so well. Thanks for joining us
on Normally Normally allegedly airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and subscribe
anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us
at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and
when things get weird, act normally
As far back on.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Normally, the show with normalis takes from when the news
gets weird.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I am Mark.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Havin Ham and I'm Carol Markowitz, and I'm not sure
is this the special episode? It was a special episode yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We're just doing a lot of special episodes. Is what's happening?
Because we cannot rest. There's no rest allowed.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
But yeah, this is our first time having three episodes
in one week. It's been a big news week and
we felt like we couldn't just miss out on commenting
on all of it. So here we are again. The
US Supreme Court today upheld the Tennessee van on youth.
They call it Gender firm and Care. We know it
(00:43):
as access to puberty blockers, hormone treatments, sometimes surgery. It's
called the Scrimmetti ruling, and it came down today, so
we felt like we had to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, and this is based on a twenty twenty three
law in Tennessee. It's called sp BE one that banned
this kind of treatment for transgender children and teens in
the state of Tennessee. It stipulates that you can still
use hormone therapy for people who have precocious puberty, who
(01:15):
people who have stalled out and have other.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Forms of issues.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The question before the court was basically like does this
violate the equal Protection Clause? And with a vote of
six to three, the Justice has decided that it does not.
They said that it did not discriminate based on sex.
They said that transgender was not a suspect or a
semi suspect class that would be those two things would
(01:45):
make it this laws subject to higher levels of scrutinary scrutiny.
And so the interesting thing. Part of the interesting thing
to me too is that Roberts is writing for the
court and to have Roberts just bat down each of
these arguments, so I think that's fairly like more powerful
and more unexpected than coming from someone who you assumed
(02:07):
would be on this side of it. So an interesting,
an interesting win for normalcy. Frankly, Yeah, normal.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Wins today that you know, it doesn't win every day,
but it won today, and it's it's nice to see
it because well, like we talk about on the show
a lot, it's it's tough to find. And I think
that this ruling really puts the Democrats into, uh backs
them into a corner that they are having trouble getting
(02:37):
out of which is their two main issues are extremely
unpopular with the American public. The Washington Post tried to
call this this ruling on a polarizing issue that the
Trump administration has seized on, and Matt Whitlock notes on
X it's actually not polarizing. The Washington Post's own polling
found that overwhelming majority of American support banning sex change
(03:00):
treatments and surgeries for children. The Supreme Court upheld Tennessee's
right to take that popular action.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Wait, and do you know who actually seized upon it?
The Biden administration worked with the transgender teens to bring
this to the Supreme Court. The whole reason it's at
the Supreme Court is because the Biden administration was like, nah,
y'all can't do this. They actually seized upon it. The
Trump administration ended up in this position with it going
(03:27):
to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Absolutely, And so also Matt Woodlock points out that the
Post's own polling and he said, he points out, you know,
waypo is obviously not a conservative. Pollster found sixty eight
percent support for banning access to puberty blockers for kids
ten to fourteen and fifty eight percent for banning hormone
treatments for kids fifteen to seventeen. And this was in
(03:49):
twenty twenty two, before this really blew up as an issue,
and those numbers have only gone up since.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
A couple of mainstream media headlines, just to add to
your collection breaking this is ap the the Supreme Court
upholds a Tennessee ban on gender affirming care for transgender miners.
In a quote that's not it's actually it's not in quotes.
This is just them in a huge setback for transgender rights.
That's not a fair news headline at all. Another organization
(04:18):
said it authorizes harm for many transgender people in the US.
It's like authorized is harm. They're just dealing with They're
dealing with the question of whether a Tennessee law violates
federal law of the Constitution, and they found that it
doesn't either. That's it right, right anyway? Can you imagine
(04:40):
going back to yourself in twenty twelve and telling yourself
in twenty twelve that in twenty twenty five it would
be a question put before the court whether a state
has the power to say no, under eighteen, you're not
allowed to have sex change surgery and hormones can you imagine.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I just think the world has lost their mind, and
actually not the world, just us, really just us. Most
European countries completely ban again what people call gender firming
care for minors, and it's just it's not acceptable in
so many different places. Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands all have
policies about not allowing this kind of thing, like puberty
(05:27):
blockers and hormone treatments. I believe Denmark recently joined that list.
There's like it is just it's really only America. And
I know I saw you get into it with the
American Academy of Pediatrics today.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Their statement is, the American Academy of Pediatric stance firmly
with pediatricians and families making healthcare decisions together and free
from political interference. We remain committed to advancing care that
protects the health, safety, and dignity of all children. And then,
in their tweet, gender affirming care remains evidence based, medically
necessary care that improves the health and well being of
(06:07):
transgender use. That's the part where they're tripping up on. Okay,
American Academy of Pediatrics is determined to be untrustworthy in
anything thorny, or they refuse to be smart, they refuse
to be nuanced, they refuse to look at changing evidence
or evidence at all because they're interested in signaling first.
And what Europe has done is followed the evidence and
(06:28):
they have found this is either not convincing or there's
countervailing evidence that this is actually quite damaging to children,
and so they have cut it out. The American Academy
of Pediatrics is like, nah, this is evidence based, and
the truth is that the data is not there. And
when the data is there, it's either not convincing or
it's the opposite. I mean, it's like goes the opposite direction.
(06:49):
So if they were following the evidence, and if they
were an evidence based organization, which we know from COVID
that they decided not to be, they would come to
and conclusions. And it is I know, I'm not surprised,
but it is discouraging to watch all of these institutions
fail to be smart.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
This is your job, yeah, And the fact that they
are such an outlier, like a lot of what we
heard during for example, COVID or in other times when
conservatives are not the majority position, you hear this like, well,
we all agree on this, so you must be wrong
in this case. They do not all agree on it.
(07:32):
They are pushing ahead with this anyway. One interesting note
is that Justice Thomas had a footnote in the ruling
where he points out that Chase Strangio, who is the
co director of the American Civil Liberties Union, and he
was the lawyer who brought this case to the Supreme
Court on the side of wanting Tennessee to overturn their
(07:56):
ban on hormone and other therapies. Thomas points out that
Strangio had conceded that medical treatment actually did nothing to
minimize the risk of suicide and kids who were having
issues with their gender. So it's you know, parents are
(08:20):
lied to that if you don't enforce this, if you
don't support this, your kid could kill themselves. Right. The
whole thing was, you know, would you rather have a
dead girl or a live boy? And it's wrong. And
it's also just wrong on the facts because getting them
(08:40):
hormone blockers and putting them on any kind of treatment
as a child does not actually minimize the risk of suicide.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And just the idea that that kind of advice from
a medical professional is just a wholly emotional Blackmaile, has
nothing to do with the condition of your child, has
nothing to do with the evidence.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
We now know.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's horribly abusive for a provider to talk to parents
that way. It's coercive, it's nasty. It's just like which
doctor stuff. And you should you should not be doing.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That with your patients.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
You should be having rational conversations with them about cost
benefit analyses.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
But again, as we learned during COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
A lot of people capable of doing that. I do
think one of the downsides for the ACLU and transgender
activists and those who align with them about this case
is that it brought forward exactly that it's Strangio and
the ACLU's arguments and.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
The data are weak.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
There's real week and that was brought to the four
because the Biden administration and Strangio and the ACLU and
all their fellow travelers decided we got to go to
Supreme Court on this. And what they may have ended
up doing is putting down a lot of precedent that
they didn't intend to put down, and they may have
put out a lot of info that gets a lot
(10:06):
more attention that they want it to be getting.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, this is again going back to the political political
ramifications of it. It's baffling to me that this is
what the Democrats have decided is their key issue and
it's so unpopular with the American people. Look, we've said
it on the show before. Do we think Democrats are
never going to win again? Of course not, of course,
not that you know, there's two political parties in America.
(10:32):
One of them wins some of the time, the other
one wins the other some of the time. And it's
i you know, there's no part of me that thinks
all the Democrats are out of the out of the ballgame.
But the fact is that it's June twenty twenty five,
and their two top issues are making sure that boys
can play in girls' sports and that kids and teens
(10:54):
get you know, hormone blockers and potentially surgery. And their
second issue is protecting the rights of the llegal immigrants
who are in the country without having gotten permission to
be here. And that is the two things that they
seem to care about the most. And it is just again,
I'm sure they'll win again someday, but very very hard
(11:15):
to see that right now.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I don't get it. Again.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
This is why I just think they're unable to make
a turn, they're unable to pivot. I think they were
unable to see that Strangio's arguments weren't great. I listened
to the oral arguments and was unimpressed. The briefs had
all sorts of bad information in them for that side
of the case. And Justine Thomas noted in his concurrence
(11:43):
today he said states are never required to substitute expert
opinion for their legislative judgment, and when the experts appear
to have compromised their credibility, it makes good sense to
chart a different course. Courts should not assume that self
described experts are correct, and can we sit to.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Those in the back as we learned during COVID.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Like we should write a book called as we Learned
during COVID, like the AAP.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
The people telling you this stuff, even your own provider,
sometimes they are incorrect. Their data is not there. They're
not They're sometimes not familiar with the data and pretend
to be. And it's so this is like a real
blow for sanity, and it's it's funny. I was actually
at a I think I remember vaguely.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
It was a children's.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Birthday party in about twenty twelve, and like my friends
and I had just started having kids.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
This is like a one year old's birthday party.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And I was standing around with a couple of a
couple of fellow politicos, and the transgender thing had sort
of just started to become part of the conversation and
we can decide whether to bleep this or not.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
But I said, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I gotta say, if Democrats decide that penis and are
just not a thing anymore and they mean nothing, I
don't think that.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Will go well for them.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Good call.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And it took many years for that prophecy to come true,
but that was the discussion to day.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
But we were far away from the children when I
said this, right, it occurs sometimes they were one.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
They were like clear of my influence. At this point,
I have to.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Say that I used to be Again I may have
mentioned this before, but I used to consider myself somebody
that would be considered pro trands. I used all the
pronouns that people would want to use. It really was
them coming for the children that shook me out of it.
And I know, like the path that I took to
get here, I know that like things got crazier and
(13:48):
crazier and crazier. I wrote about it this at one
point that I was banned from a liberal site I
used to comment on because I said that trans people
have to disclose it and that became something unaccepted to stay.
And as they kept pushing the envelope, they lost people
like me who would generally be on the side of
let people do whatever they want and let them live
(14:10):
how they want. But coming for the kids that was
the dividing line for me. For many Americans, we could
look back to a few years ago and this was
not an issue at all until it started coming for
the kids.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, my two breaking points with it because like at
that particular time, it wasn't really like at.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
The forefront of political issues. It had just.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Become something that lefty activists were discussing and so politicos
were interested in that, and I was like, I just
don't think this is going to turn out.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Well, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Sure the media and voter is there with them on this,
but yeah, I think I would have been of a
more libertarian bent until the policing of language and the
kid stuff, right, And I believe in our in guys.
In my book, in a discussion is twenty fifteen, shortly after.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
This has become a national issue.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yes, it's still applicable, unfortunately, but an end of discussion.
We noted that when it comes to trans issues, which
is a particularly speech policed area with a lot of
people willing to get you fired for saying the wrong things,
at one point some coalition of trans allies and groups posted,
(15:23):
I believe a monthly if not weekly, update of language
that was okay to use, and we used that to say, hey,
this just seems.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Like a no win situation.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
If we're going to go down this path, we can't
do monthly updates to everybody's acceptable language on these issues.
And so those two things combined certainly gave me pause,
and I think have given many, many many people pause.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, that's definitely a big part of it. Also, teachers
getting in trouble for not using the pronoun that the
teenager made up this week is clearly a huge issue.
Things like that just drove people away from you know
what would have been a non issue not that long ago.
I also like to say, you know, I love that
(16:08):
movie The Crying Game. And when that Crying Game came out,
that movie was seen as a very, very pro trans movie,
a guy falls in love with a trans woman and
tries to overlook it, but it's really hard. But he
ultimately is in love with this woman who was once
a man, and that was seen as very very pro trans.
That movie would be anti trans today. Oh yes, he
(16:30):
refers to her as a man. He says, you know,
she says, I'm just a girl, and he says, but
you're not a girl. And you know, things like that
would be completely not allowed now. And they you know,
they drove people away, and that's just the reality of it.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
We'll be right back on normally.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
We do have one more bit of news just to
light in the mood here, which is that Trump has
installed at least one I don't know if he's done
both of them, but a one hundred foot flagpole, yeah,
I think with a giant a giant American flag on
it on the White House lawn is huge.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
It's like, you know, Texas sise huge.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I mean, it's it is both.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's it's like car dealership on a Texas highway level.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's what it should be.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
You know, when I get to Texas and I see
those car dealerships with their American flag, I'm like this
is what living is all about, Like this is what
it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Like, yeah, it's uh, it looks like that, and I look.
Uh the guy's into construction, which is good because this
is a very tall in my flagpole. So he's he's
assured us of all the specs on this thing. I
do enjoy that, like the next Democratic president is going
to have to be like I can't. I can't even
(17:54):
if I have aesthetic issues with the take picture of that.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
You can't do anything about it. Like it's just it's there.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
For right, forever and ever. So I can't wait to
go see it. I didn't realize that the flag was
Texas size.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean it's it looks very large in the anyone
this coming right, there's maybe two.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Now they have like a two.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Don't they have a part two hole out there on
the do as well. Yeah, the professional golfer was like
golfing out on the White House lawn.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Incredible.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Trump is yolowing with the designs of the old White
House this.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Time I have you know, we have our ups and downs,
Donald Trump and I. This has been a very upweek
for our relationship. I have been super into Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
This week.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I think you know on Iran he is one of
the clearest voices ever. I just it's it's unbelievable to
watch him in action. Sees everything so clearly in a
way that I just even other Republicans I don't think
see it quite like he does. And I've just been
I'm in a good place with with with the Donald,
T and I besties right now.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
A good A good week for the Donald, so yeah,
and a good week for us here at normal We're
a lot of stuff episodes.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I mean, you know, I don't know. We can't promise
three episodes always, but well we'll do our best, right.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
We felt like this one was important.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, it was important, so well. Thanks for joining us
on Normally Normally allegedly airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and subscribe
anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us
at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and
when things get weird, act normally
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