November 25, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz share their Thanksgiving prep and weekend stories while breaking down the news from Donald Trump’s Oval Office meeting with Zorhan Mamdani. They examine how the meeting may reshape political alliances, energize populist movements, and influence online political conversations. They also dive into the role of transparency in digital discourse and reflect on how gambling, family dynamics, and holiday traditions collide this time of year. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, we are back. Normally, they shouldn't normal.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It takes for Wendy and gets weird. I'm Mary Katherine
and I'm Carol Marko. It's how are you married, Catherine?
How was your weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Pretty good? I went to the beach for the weekend.
I a little get away in Nice.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Which beach?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes, back to where you got married.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
That's right. And so got a little, I mean very
little son. I'm me, but I pretended like I was
getting sun and had a cocktail and then came back
ready for to do it all again. Yeah, tan, rested
and ready for my next vacation.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I love it. Thanksgiving my favorite holiday. I really love it.
I love the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I love the food, I love the thankfulness, I love
the family. I'm all about it. My brother and his
family are visiting. They're here for their year. You know,
I hate the whole switching off years.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
But I mean, you gotta do it right, you got to.
You gotta share him.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm excited. We're going to North Carolina, so we'll be
out of here in a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Love it all right.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, before we get to the turkey and the stuffing
and the side dishes Donald Trump and z or Mom
Donnie had a much too warm situation happened at the
Old Office on Friday, and I wasn't sure if we
would still be talking about this for Tuesday's episode, but
it remains kind of the biggest story around.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I don't think anything else is beating it today. Well
let's talk about it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Let's talk about those two crazy kids and the fun
they had at the Oval Office together.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
They had so much fun. So Mom Donnie comes down
to the Oval Office a couple things from his perspective.
From Mom Donnie's, I do think there's a risk of
losing a bunch of cred with his very liberal folks.
But the problem for him is he needs someone to
fund his socialism.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
The funding of the socialism is always the hardest part
of the socialism, and like.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Hookl might not do it, So I guess he's coming
down here. She's definitely not. I think mostly the two
of them like the camera more than almost anything else
that was happening that day, and so the both of
them were like, this is great. Everybody's got all eyes
on us. But it occurred to me that Mamdani is
doing what twenty seventeen Democrats should have done hich.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh my god. Yeah, just roll up in that Oval office.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Tell him how many votes he got in your district.
How there's so many people who agree with him on stuff,
How you agree with him on stuff? Here's the things
we should do together, And he's like, maybe we should Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I wrote about this at the time, how Democrats were
missing a huge opportunity. Trump is not in doctrinaire Republican.
They could have gotten so much from him, with him
all around, they chose to fight him instead. Actually I
called this the Kim Kardashian rule. She was like, come
to the Oval office, take a bunch of pictures together.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Get what I want. Policy wise, she got, you.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Know, a party for an yes and policy change about
non violent drug non violent offenders in general.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So yeah, it's the first step back, That's what it
was called.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, very effective work on her part, right, something people
should have learned from and perhaps Mom Danny is the
guy who did.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I have to admit to a bit of an emotional
rollercoaster ride about this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I don't know I first saw it.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
I was like, oh no, like really didn't like it,
felt that betrayed by Trump, because listen, if we didn't
we didn't talk about it in advance, but had we
talked about it, I would have said Trump is going
to kill him with kindness.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
He's going to be super nice. All of that. I
knew that was going to happen.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I had no illusions that they were going to have
some major clash in the Oval Office.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
But I felt, I don't know, like I didn't like.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
The line that particularly I didn't like was Donald Trump
saying conservatives are going to be happy about some of
his policies, and I was like, no, we're not very much.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But I have been on a little bit of an
emotional rollercoaster about this, and I have ultimately come out
on There was some really wise.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Things that Trump did.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
The joke that he made, well we'll play a clip
in a minute, but I'll just tell you the joke
that everybody was sharing where a reporter asked, Mom, Donnie,
do you still think Trump is a fascist? And Trump
is like, go ahead, say yes, who cares, Like you
know it's fine, and m Donnie's like, yes, he's a fascist.
But then he said it again on the Sunday shows.
I think it was Meet the Press at that point,
(04:31):
it sounded completely defangd he he doesn't think he's a fascist.
He can't even say it anymore because you stood next
to a fascist and told him how people in your
district voted for him and share work them together. Come on,
if you think he's a fascist, you're not doing that.
So Trump really did get him in that way. And
I think he doesn't have the kind of nails that
(04:53):
he had going into that meeting.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And that's that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Again, like I said, I think both of their prayer,
he was perhaps being on camera and enjoying themselves. That's
number one. Number two, I do think because Trump doesn't
Trump loves New York City. He is not joking around
when he says I want him to succeed.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
He's also not an ideologue, nor is he that interested
in like economic policy outside of terrorists. So he's not
I don't think he's spent a ton of time thinking
about what those policies will look like. And he's agreeing
that the buses are very slow. It's like, great, but
they're not going to be free and fast. That's not
gonna happens, sir. If they're free, sure, you know, but
I think like both of these people understand the appeal
(05:37):
a they're good on camera, be they're good at appealing
to populism. Trump a right version, Mamdannie a left version.
So he's they're kind of right that they have things
to agree on and yours. And my complaint about Trump
has always been that he's creeping too far left for
us right, and so I think that's a lot of
what you saw. What I did not like is that
(05:57):
Trump defanged arguments against Mam Donnie by plenty of other
people who could correctly, morally and usefully politically run against
this force in New York City at least. Yeah, but Trump,
That's not Trump's number one priority. Phou show. I think
the thing about Trump is if he likes you, he
(06:19):
likes you. Yeah, And I think this guy came in
and he liked him, and he emphasized the right things.
You could tell mom Donnie had thought about, like what
are the things he likes to hear? Because he kept
emphasizing people who had voted for him and Trump, the
things that Trump and he both want to give to people.
And I did I especially did not love Trump's credulousness
(06:40):
on well he said he doesn't want any crime. It's like, okay, great, same,
how how's that gonna work?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Right? Yeah, So I'm sure they have crossover voters.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
But if you look at the New York City voting map,
the ange Cuomo areas, the Angeclomo one were the areas
that went for Donald Trump. So while there is some
crossover in general, there isn't.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Also, I don't want to. I don't want to right
populism and left populism. A while that sounds terrible to me,
This is awful, awful, bad economics for everyone.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Totally. Let's play this clip and then get into that.
He's got views and out there, but who knows he's
going to change.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Also, we all change.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I change a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I think he is going to surprise some conservative people. Actually,
President trumpa's desk, and I've.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Been called much worse than a desk bud.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So it's it's not that insulting.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I expect to be helping him, not hurting him. A
big help because I want New York City to be great.
Do you think you're sitting next to a johnstraight now
in the overwhelper?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I know you say things sometimes in a campaign.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I met with a man who's a very rational person.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Are you affirming that you think Trump's a fascist?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I've spoken about that's okay, you can just say, okay,
it's easier.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
It's easier than explaining a pedal. But the pat that
part was very funny.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, it was. It was funny. I mean, look, Donald
Trump has a very good sense of humor. Our concerns
remain that he drifts leftboard when left his own devices.
But you're right, he loves New York. He wants New
York to succeed.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I don't think he cares very much about it succeeding
in a conservative policy way, which you know, you and
I would care more about. But yeah, the left and
right populism thing is a real big issue for people
who are not into that sort of thing. We'll talk
about in the next segment about Twitter x now putting
(08:43):
people's location on their bios and what we found in
the last few days again, we'll get into the next segment.
But the groeper class that pushes the left and right
populism together. I've seen so many tweets in the last
few days since the moum Donnie thing, like we need
we need to.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Have social conservativism and liberal economics, and it's like, no,
we don't. We definitely don't.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, and I think he also probably appealed it sounded
like behind closed doors that Mom Donnie was talking a
lot about building stuff. Again, exactly what Trump wants to hear,
but not what you heard from Mom Donnie on the
campaign trail, and Trump pointed that out. He's like, I
didn't really hear much of that when he was running,
but you know, it's a campaign. But now he's telling
(09:28):
me he wants to build stuff. Okay, I'll believe that
when I see it. But that was part of the
message that appealed to Donald Trump, which then makes him
friendly to you in the room, which means when you're
asked about genocide and you affirm that you believe the
Israeli government is committing it, you know, to push back
on you.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, I would really like to see because he knows
better than that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah right, yes, taking me back to Friday where I
was like all angry and then had the weekend to
like digest. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Trump loves to be loved.
He loves and people say no thanks to him. It
is an achilles heel. I always worried about this, and
we saw it in action here.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
We'll see where at least Stephonic takes it from here,
because she again is running against Kathy Hochel for governor
of New York and the idea is to use him
as a foil. But if Donald Trump is saying I'd
have no problem living in New York under Mom Donny,
that's gonna be a little bit of an issue.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
But he totally will you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Even as a billionaire, even as you know, among the
richest people living in New York, you still as soon
as you leave your golden palace, you have homelessness on
the street, you have disarray in the city. Donald Trump's
not going back to that. I'll put my five bucks
on it right now. I'm getting too gambling. In the
last segment five bucks, Donald Trump does not go back
(10:44):
to New York after his presidency.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Also, Trump reserves the right to change his mind about
everything he said a beating tomorrow. Yeah, and he probably
will in like a several days.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah. I think at least Devonic should still run against
creeping socialism and Kathy Hockel's embrace of that, and I
wish her the best we'll be right back with more
on normally and where is your favorite X account from Malaysia, Tunisia, Turkey,
we'll find out. We are back on normally where X
(11:18):
introduced a very popular new feature where you can click
on somebody's profile and see where they signed up for
X and where they are based. Basically where what app
store they use to log on. So maybe you were
on vacation and decided to join Twitter in like you know,
twenty fifteen, and you joined from Aruba, but then your
(11:41):
app store still is US. So a lot of people
have been exposed because of this, and there's a lot
of hoopla around it. I think it's an amazing policy.
I actually think you should not have to click through.
I think it should be right on the profile so
you see where the people are from and what their
bias is.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I think it's very important.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And a lot of a lot of accounts have been
exposed in the last few days, including one of my
personal favorites, because it does hit the real world, not
just in our ex world. Palestinian journalist allegedly that was
writing for the BBC turns out doesn't live in Gaza
at all, lives in Turkey, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, this is an interesting thing because it is by
its very nature extremely online, right, But there was the
background is that was there was always this suspicion that
we were being messed with by a lot of accounts
that pose as true patriotic America First accounts or tint
dwelling Gaza residents who are happily regurgitated by the BBC
(12:44):
and others that weren't misrepresenting themselves. And we've found that
out on a case by case basis at times. But
I believe and I don't think I'm incorrect about this,
but somebody, Katie Pavlich, suggested this change on Twitter and
Elon Musk took it up and then show these things,
so well done her. And there is a fun sort
(13:04):
of flattening of the earth that happens on next where
you can just say like, hey, elin you should try this.
So transparency is very helpful because I don't mind if
you're from another country, and America is a superpower. We
have a lot of influence. You have thoughts, Fine, I'm
not gonna take your thoughts with the same weight that
I would other people's, but don't lie to me about
(13:25):
where you are and what you're in and so I
think the transparency is very helpful. And like we always
talk about, these very online things become part of the discourse,
which then is broadcast on media and then sort of
trickles down to become this idea of what our country is.
And if our country is not actually as populated or
(13:45):
animated by groidbers, I would like to know that. I
want to know if they're real.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, that's it, That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
It's like, is what we're seeing online something that's actually
happening or is it manufactured outrage? And I think that
a lot of what we've seen in the last few
days turns out that many of these accounts are in
other countries and they're not actually the farm girl in
Iowa baking pies for her husband and being a good
(14:13):
trad wife and commenting on how the Jews are taking
everything over. It turns out that's just a dude living
in like Morocco and he has some thoughts.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Like the thing is, if you're honest, it doesn't matter right,
put it right in your bio Moroccan man interested in
American politics, and then put whatever you want and tweet
whatever you want and.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
See if it becomes popular.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
It still may, but this lie that you're American and
that you have as much of a stake in it
as the rest of us do. It's really appalling, and
I'm so glad it's being exposed well.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And there's the larger issue of the attention economy and
the fact that monetization of X, although I think admirable
in some ways, incentivizes both rage baiting people sure crazy
things that you don't actually believe, and incentivizes people in
countries that are not as prosperous as ours to log
(15:08):
on and pretend to be Annie in Iowa and put
some rage bait out there and make a couple hundred
bucks a month, which is quite good money and it's
not a chicken scratch anywhere, but it's much better money
in smaller countries with smaller economies, and so you sort
of incentivize that situation. That being said, there are plenty
of Americans who have these detestable views in many places.
(15:32):
In many cases, I do think perhaps that these points
of view are being favored and amplified in a way
that distorts how many of these people there actually are.
And then that leads people to think you and I
don't do it, but like to think that to talk
to your audience, you must adopt these views because your
(15:53):
audience is animated by these views. But how animated actually
are they? Is it real? Is it not? And I
think that's what we're getting a little closer to understanding, right.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Other you know, changes that i'd love to see on
X is just I guess to keep up with that.
Does the person still you know, check in from wherever
people are?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
They do move they you know, all of that does happen.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
But if you're an American and who moved to Russia
because you like their system better, I kind of want
that information in your bio.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, that's important information.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Many other changes you want to see X make. The
edit button needs improvement, by the way, Elon, if you're listening,
I can never edit my tweets.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, so my edit button mostly works. I would say
that I know you're a blocker. I'm a muter and
the mute doesn't work properly.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Blocking also doesn't work properly. Yeah, I saw blocking this weekend. Actually,
I had I unblocked somebody because I wanted to follow
along with their drama.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
But when you block someone, you can't see their tweets?
Like why not?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Like, if they block me, I can't see their tweets,
that's fine. But if I block them, I can't see
their tweets. But what if I want to see what
they're what their little fight is about, which I did.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, well, the drama shall continue, but I do think
we have a better handle on parsing who the Americans
are in the drama now?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Which is nice America first? You know?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, I mean we got to run our elections here,
so I'd like to know which ones are real.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
We'll be right back with more on normally and gambling
on Thanksgiving? Should you do it?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
All? Right? We are back on normally with some festive
ad making for Thanksgiving, some ideas for things you could
do with your family. This is FanDuel. Let's just play
the ad and then we'll talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Okay, what passion leg?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
What's past the leg? It's a party you built with
your friends. Leg passed it on, not him one bad.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Wait, why don't you passed the leg yet?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You can't rush the leg? Dad working on it. Everybody
in the leg has been passed off. Thanksgiving? Bet together
like never before, get a profit booth, build a group parlay.
I hate it. I hate it so much. And you
(18:20):
know I'm I'm very squishy on gambling. I'm a poker player.
It is a game of skill, but.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
It has a gambling component that is necessary to the game.
I hate this so much. It's like just infuriated me.
If you if you didn't see the ad at the end,
the family sitting around on their phones at Thanksgiving dinner
placing bets. It's awful. If you don't know what a
parlay is. It's basically the probability of hitting some random
thing in a game. And if a bunch of people
(18:47):
are placing parlays which are already extremely unlikely to ever hit,
it's it's just the lowest odds of anything. So there's
not only saying go gamble, encourage your family to do it, but.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Place the worst possible bets that you can.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And do it while sitting at your Thanksgiving table, and
do it with all of your family.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I feel like I'm a bit of a squish on
the gambling thing as well, because I don't really have
a dog in this fight. I don't gamble. It's just
never been interesting to me, But it is a thing
that I'm willing to listen to both sides on because
my libertarian side is like, okay, well let me listen.
If you're an adult, you're not hurting anybody else. But
I can see well enough to know that like this
(19:30):
probably has some real downstream bad effects. And the part
that's changed over the years since you and I have
been paying attention to this is that you can just
do it from your phone for everything, anytime, anywhere. And
there used to just be a lot more effort involved
in going to a place to do the thing that's
like maybe not the best use of your time and money,
(19:52):
and now you're just like, let me do it here
with my family at Thanksgiving dinner.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
That seems bad, awful, and PoCA remains illegal online in
most places, so it just it makes no sense to me.
I will say that my brother and his family are
visiting for Thanksgiving, and I had told my brother that
Florida recently got open carry. You're now allowed to open
carry your guns. So he's like, so let me get
(20:17):
this straight. He lands yesterday, He's like, you can go
to like a seven eleven in sweatpants with two guns
in your whole store exposed. But I can't place a
bed online because you actually can't Florida.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So yeah, no gambling for Thanksgiving, a little brother.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
We are governed by our community standards, you know. That's
that's the way it works. And he's in Florida.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I do think that there are dark stories underneath a
lot of this online betting and sort of the real
mainstreaming of it over the past five years. And this one,
like you said, seems un wise, not a great use
of your time on Thanksgiving, And it's like, do we
want to treat that like wordle like exactly right. It's
sort of treated as if like, oh, we're just doing
(20:57):
a game together as fam and I don't know, just
sit down and play par cheesy or something.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Totally. Do you have a wordle chat.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I don't have a world chat, but I know other people.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I'm not I'm not in touch with the people on
these things, but they.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Do have a wordal chat.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
It's very, very, very active every single day.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So that's good. You're learning new things. Yeah, it's doing
the vocabulary.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, vocabulary is better than betting on people you don't
know playing a sport, and that you have no, you
have no possibility of affecting.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Like where I always say like poker is different, and
it is different than even table games and casinos. You're
playing against the house, and poker you're playing against other
people and you're playing with your own skills.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So if poker is illegal.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I don't understand how betting on sports is legal. I'll
just you know, I'll be the bummer and say that
it shouldn't be quick.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Exit question before we go? What dish are you most
looking forward to?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Nobody agrees with me on this. It's the green beans.
It's the green beans.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
They're so good. I make one with a cornflake topping.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And it is delicious and it's next to me because
nobody else eats it, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I love We're the same, but I love a green
bean carast. Well, I am going to shout out a
different cast role that I only have on Thanksgiving. Well,
my dad makes a corn bread stuffing that is very
special for Thanksgiving too. It's very arduous and we only
do it once a year. But there is a potato
cast role in the South that's just like potatoes, cheese,
sour cream, male like all the things that are fat,
(22:31):
and then you put cheese on top and make that crispy,
and then you put the corn flakes on top with
the with the butter on top, and it is so
decadent and ridiculous, and I only eat it once a.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Year, and I love all Right, ship me that recipe.
Let's do it so we can. We can.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
We can trade off our our green beans and our
potato casroles. Care we go.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Well, I hope you're having a very happy Thanksgiving with
your families this week.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
We will be back with more normally on Tuesday. We're
gonna have a rerun on Thursday. We wish you all
the best. Have a happy and safe and healthy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
M
Hey, we are back. Normally, they shouldn't normal.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It takes for Wendy and gets weird. I'm Mary Katherine
and I'm Carol Marko. It's how are you married, Catherine?
How was your weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Pretty good? I went to the beach for the weekend.
I a little get away in Nice.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Which beach?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes, back to where you got married.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
That's right. And so got a little, I mean very
little son. I'm me, but I pretended like I was
getting sun and had a cocktail and then came back
ready for to do it all again. Yeah, tan, rested
and ready for my next vacation.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I love it. Thanksgiving my favorite holiday. I really love it.
I love the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I love the food, I love the thankfulness, I love
the family. I'm all about it. My brother and his
family are visiting. They're here for their year. You know,
I hate the whole switching off years.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
But I mean, you gotta do it right, you got to.
You gotta share him.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm excited. We're going to North Carolina, so we'll be
out of here in a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Love it all right.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, before we get to the turkey and the stuffing
and the side dishes Donald Trump and z or Mom
Donnie had a much too warm situation happened at the
Old Office on Friday, and I wasn't sure if we
would still be talking about this for Tuesday's episode, but
it remains kind of the biggest story around.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I don't think anything else is beating it today. Well
let's talk about it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Let's talk about those two crazy kids and the fun
they had at the Oval Office together.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
They had so much fun. So Mom Donnie comes down
to the Oval Office a couple things from his perspective.
From Mom Donnie's, I do think there's a risk of
losing a bunch of cred with his very liberal folks.
But the problem for him is he needs someone to
fund his socialism.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
The funding of the socialism is always the hardest part
of the socialism, and like.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Hookl might not do it, So I guess he's coming
down here. She's definitely not. I think mostly the two
of them like the camera more than almost anything else
that was happening that day, and so the both of
them were like, this is great. Everybody's got all eyes
on us. But it occurred to me that Mamdani is
doing what twenty seventeen Democrats should have done hich.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh my god. Yeah, just roll up in that Oval office.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Tell him how many votes he got in your district.
How there's so many people who agree with him on stuff,
How you agree with him on stuff? Here's the things
we should do together, And he's like, maybe we should Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I wrote about this at the time, how Democrats were
missing a huge opportunity. Trump is not in doctrinaire Republican.
They could have gotten so much from him, with him
all around, they chose to fight him instead. Actually I
called this the Kim Kardashian rule. She was like, come
to the Oval office, take a bunch of pictures together.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Get what I want. Policy wise, she got, you.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Know, a party for an yes and policy change about
non violent drug non violent offenders in general.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So yeah, it's the first step back, That's what it
was called.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, very effective work on her part, right, something people
should have learned from and perhaps Mom Danny is the
guy who did.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I have to admit to a bit of an emotional
rollercoaster ride about this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I don't know I first saw it.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
I was like, oh no, like really didn't like it,
felt that betrayed by Trump, because listen, if we didn't
we didn't talk about it in advance, but had we
talked about it, I would have said Trump is going
to kill him with kindness.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
He's going to be super nice. All of that. I
knew that was going to happen.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I had no illusions that they were going to have
some major clash in the Oval Office.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
But I felt, I don't know, like I didn't like.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
The line that particularly I didn't like was Donald Trump
saying conservatives are going to be happy about some of
his policies, and I was like, no, we're not very much.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But I have been on a little bit of an
emotional rollercoaster about this, and I have ultimately come out
on There was some really wise.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Things that Trump did.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
The joke that he made, well we'll play a clip
in a minute, but I'll just tell you the joke
that everybody was sharing where a reporter asked, Mom, Donnie,
do you still think Trump is a fascist? And Trump
is like, go ahead, say yes, who cares, Like you
know it's fine, and m Donnie's like, yes, he's a fascist.
But then he said it again on the Sunday shows.
I think it was Meet the Press at that point,
(04:31):
it sounded completely defangd he he doesn't think he's a fascist.
He can't even say it anymore because you stood next
to a fascist and told him how people in your
district voted for him and share work them together. Come on,
if you think he's a fascist, you're not doing that.
So Trump really did get him in that way. And
I think he doesn't have the kind of nails that
(04:53):
he had going into that meeting.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And that's that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Again, like I said, I think both of their prayer,
he was perhaps being on camera and enjoying themselves. That's
number one. Number two, I do think because Trump doesn't
Trump loves New York City. He is not joking around
when he says I want him to succeed.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
He's also not an ideologue, nor is he that interested
in like economic policy outside of terrorists. So he's not
I don't think he's spent a ton of time thinking
about what those policies will look like. And he's agreeing
that the buses are very slow. It's like, great, but
they're not going to be free and fast. That's not
gonna happens, sir. If they're free, sure, you know, but
I think like both of these people understand the appeal
(05:37):
a they're good on camera, be they're good at appealing
to populism. Trump a right version, Mamdannie a left version.
So he's they're kind of right that they have things
to agree on and yours. And my complaint about Trump
has always been that he's creeping too far left for
us right, and so I think that's a lot of
what you saw. What I did not like is that
(05:57):
Trump defanged arguments against Mam Donnie by plenty of other
people who could correctly, morally and usefully politically run against
this force in New York City at least. Yeah, but Trump,
That's not Trump's number one priority. Phou show. I think
the thing about Trump is if he likes you, he
(06:19):
likes you. Yeah, And I think this guy came in
and he liked him, and he emphasized the right things.
You could tell mom Donnie had thought about, like what
are the things he likes to hear? Because he kept
emphasizing people who had voted for him and Trump, the
things that Trump and he both want to give to people.
And I did I especially did not love Trump's credulousness
(06:40):
on well he said he doesn't want any crime. It's like, okay, great, same,
how how's that gonna work?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Right? Yeah, So I'm sure they have crossover voters.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
But if you look at the New York City voting map,
the ange Cuomo areas, the Angeclomo one were the areas
that went for Donald Trump. So while there is some
crossover in general, there isn't.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Also, I don't want to. I don't want to right
populism and left populism. A while that sounds terrible to me,
This is awful, awful, bad economics for everyone.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Totally. Let's play this clip and then get into that.
He's got views and out there, but who knows he's
going to change.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Also, we all change.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I change a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I think he is going to surprise some conservative people. Actually,
President trumpa's desk, and I've.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Been called much worse than a desk bud.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So it's it's not that insulting.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I expect to be helping him, not hurting him. A
big help because I want New York City to be great.
Do you think you're sitting next to a johnstraight now
in the overwhelper?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I know you say things sometimes in a campaign.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I met with a man who's a very rational person.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Are you affirming that you think Trump's a fascist?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I've spoken about that's okay, you can just say, okay,
it's easier.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
It's easier than explaining a pedal. But the pat that
part was very funny.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, it was. It was funny. I mean, look, Donald
Trump has a very good sense of humor. Our concerns
remain that he drifts leftboard when left his own devices.
But you're right, he loves New York. He wants New
York to succeed.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I don't think he cares very much about it succeeding
in a conservative policy way, which you know, you and
I would care more about. But yeah, the left and
right populism thing is a real big issue for people
who are not into that sort of thing. We'll talk
about in the next segment about Twitter x now putting
(08:43):
people's location on their bios and what we found in
the last few days again, we'll get into the next segment.
But the groeper class that pushes the left and right
populism together. I've seen so many tweets in the last
few days since the moum Donnie thing, like we need
we need to.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Have social conservativism and liberal economics, and it's like, no,
we don't. We definitely don't.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, and I think he also probably appealed it sounded
like behind closed doors that Mom Donnie was talking a
lot about building stuff. Again, exactly what Trump wants to hear,
but not what you heard from Mom Donnie on the
campaign trail, and Trump pointed that out. He's like, I
didn't really hear much of that when he was running,
but you know, it's a campaign. But now he's telling
(09:28):
me he wants to build stuff. Okay, I'll believe that
when I see it. But that was part of the
message that appealed to Donald Trump, which then makes him
friendly to you in the room, which means when you're
asked about genocide and you affirm that you believe the
Israeli government is committing it, you know, to push back
on you.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, I would really like to see because he knows
better than that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah right, yes, taking me back to Friday where I
was like all angry and then had the weekend to
like digest. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Trump loves to be loved.
He loves and people say no thanks to him. It
is an achilles heel. I always worried about this, and
we saw it in action here.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
We'll see where at least Stephonic takes it from here,
because she again is running against Kathy Hochel for governor
of New York and the idea is to use him
as a foil. But if Donald Trump is saying I'd
have no problem living in New York under Mom Donny,
that's gonna be a little bit of an issue.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
But he totally will you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Even as a billionaire, even as you know, among the
richest people living in New York, you still as soon
as you leave your golden palace, you have homelessness on
the street, you have disarray in the city. Donald Trump's
not going back to that. I'll put my five bucks
on it right now. I'm getting too gambling. In the
last segment five bucks, Donald Trump does not go back
(10:44):
to New York after his presidency.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Also, Trump reserves the right to change his mind about
everything he said a beating tomorrow. Yeah, and he probably
will in like a several days.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah. I think at least Devonic should still run against
creeping socialism and Kathy Hockel's embrace of that, and I
wish her the best we'll be right back with more
on normally and where is your favorite X account from Malaysia, Tunisia, Turkey,
we'll find out. We are back on normally where X
(11:18):
introduced a very popular new feature where you can click
on somebody's profile and see where they signed up for
X and where they are based. Basically where what app
store they use to log on. So maybe you were
on vacation and decided to join Twitter in like you know,
twenty fifteen, and you joined from Aruba, but then your
(11:41):
app store still is US. So a lot of people
have been exposed because of this, and there's a lot
of hoopla around it. I think it's an amazing policy.
I actually think you should not have to click through.
I think it should be right on the profile so
you see where the people are from and what their
bias is.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I think it's very important.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And a lot of a lot of accounts have been
exposed in the last few days, including one of my
personal favorites, because it does hit the real world, not
just in our ex world. Palestinian journalist allegedly that was
writing for the BBC turns out doesn't live in Gaza
at all, lives in Turkey, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, this is an interesting thing because it is by
its very nature extremely online, right, But there was the
background is that was there was always this suspicion that
we were being messed with by a lot of accounts
that pose as true patriotic America First accounts or tint
dwelling Gaza residents who are happily regurgitated by the BBC
(12:44):
and others that weren't misrepresenting themselves. And we've found that
out on a case by case basis at times. But
I believe and I don't think I'm incorrect about this,
but somebody, Katie Pavlich, suggested this change on Twitter and
Elon Musk took it up and then show these things,
so well done her. And there is a fun sort
(13:04):
of flattening of the earth that happens on next where
you can just say like, hey, elin you should try this.
So transparency is very helpful because I don't mind if
you're from another country, and America is a superpower. We
have a lot of influence. You have thoughts, Fine, I'm
not gonna take your thoughts with the same weight that
I would other people's, but don't lie to me about
(13:25):
where you are and what you're in and so I
think the transparency is very helpful. And like we always
talk about, these very online things become part of the discourse,
which then is broadcast on media and then sort of
trickles down to become this idea of what our country is.
And if our country is not actually as populated or
(13:45):
animated by groidbers, I would like to know that. I
want to know if they're real.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, that's it, That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
It's like, is what we're seeing online something that's actually
happening or is it manufactured outrage? And I think that
a lot of what we've seen in the last few
days turns out that many of these accounts are in
other countries and they're not actually the farm girl in
Iowa baking pies for her husband and being a good
(14:13):
trad wife and commenting on how the Jews are taking
everything over. It turns out that's just a dude living
in like Morocco and he has some thoughts.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Like the thing is, if you're honest, it doesn't matter right,
put it right in your bio Moroccan man interested in
American politics, and then put whatever you want and tweet
whatever you want and.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
See if it becomes popular.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
It still may, but this lie that you're American and
that you have as much of a stake in it
as the rest of us do. It's really appalling, and
I'm so glad it's being exposed well.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And there's the larger issue of the attention economy and
the fact that monetization of X, although I think admirable
in some ways, incentivizes both rage baiting people sure crazy
things that you don't actually believe, and incentivizes people in
countries that are not as prosperous as ours to log
(15:08):
on and pretend to be Annie in Iowa and put
some rage bait out there and make a couple hundred
bucks a month, which is quite good money and it's
not a chicken scratch anywhere, but it's much better money
in smaller countries with smaller economies, and so you sort
of incentivize that situation. That being said, there are plenty
of Americans who have these detestable views in many places.
(15:32):
In many cases, I do think perhaps that these points
of view are being favored and amplified in a way
that distorts how many of these people there actually are.
And then that leads people to think you and I
don't do it, but like to think that to talk
to your audience, you must adopt these views because your
(15:53):
audience is animated by these views. But how animated actually
are they? Is it real? Is it not? And I
think that's what we're getting a little closer to understanding, right.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Other you know, changes that i'd love to see on
X is just I guess to keep up with that.
Does the person still you know, check in from wherever
people are?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
They do move they you know, all of that does happen.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
But if you're an American and who moved to Russia
because you like their system better, I kind of want
that information in your bio.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, that's important information.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Many other changes you want to see X make. The
edit button needs improvement, by the way, Elon, if you're listening,
I can never edit my tweets.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, so my edit button mostly works. I would say
that I know you're a blocker. I'm a muter and
the mute doesn't work properly.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Blocking also doesn't work properly. Yeah, I saw blocking this weekend. Actually,
I had I unblocked somebody because I wanted to follow
along with their drama.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
But when you block someone, you can't see their tweets?
Like why not?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Like, if they block me, I can't see their tweets,
that's fine. But if I block them, I can't see
their tweets. But what if I want to see what
they're what their little fight is about, which I did.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, well, the drama shall continue, but I do think
we have a better handle on parsing who the Americans
are in the drama now?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Which is nice America first? You know?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, I mean we got to run our elections here,
so I'd like to know which ones are real.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
We'll be right back with more on normally and gambling
on Thanksgiving? Should you do it?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
All? Right? We are back on normally with some festive
ad making for Thanksgiving, some ideas for things you could
do with your family. This is FanDuel. Let's just play
the ad and then we'll talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Okay, what passion leg?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
What's past the leg? It's a party you built with
your friends. Leg passed it on, not him one bad.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Wait, why don't you passed the leg yet?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You can't rush the leg? Dad working on it. Everybody
in the leg has been passed off. Thanksgiving? Bet together
like never before, get a profit booth, build a group parlay.
I hate it. I hate it so much. And you
(18:20):
know I'm I'm very squishy on gambling. I'm a poker player.
It is a game of skill, but.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
It has a gambling component that is necessary to the game.
I hate this so much. It's like just infuriated me.
If you if you didn't see the ad at the end,
the family sitting around on their phones at Thanksgiving dinner
placing bets. It's awful. If you don't know what a
parlay is. It's basically the probability of hitting some random
thing in a game. And if a bunch of people
(18:47):
are placing parlays which are already extremely unlikely to ever hit,
it's it's just the lowest odds of anything. So there's
not only saying go gamble, encourage your family to do it, but.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Place the worst possible bets that you can.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And do it while sitting at your Thanksgiving table, and
do it with all of your family.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I feel like I'm a bit of a squish on
the gambling thing as well, because I don't really have
a dog in this fight. I don't gamble. It's just
never been interesting to me, But it is a thing
that I'm willing to listen to both sides on because
my libertarian side is like, okay, well let me listen.
If you're an adult, you're not hurting anybody else. But
I can see well enough to know that like this
(19:30):
probably has some real downstream bad effects. And the part
that's changed over the years since you and I have
been paying attention to this is that you can just
do it from your phone for everything, anytime, anywhere. And
there used to just be a lot more effort involved
in going to a place to do the thing that's
like maybe not the best use of your time and money,
(19:52):
and now you're just like, let me do it here
with my family at Thanksgiving dinner.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
That seems bad, awful, and PoCA remains illegal online in
most places, so it just it makes no sense to me.
I will say that my brother and his family are
visiting for Thanksgiving, and I had told my brother that
Florida recently got open carry. You're now allowed to open
carry your guns. So he's like, so let me get
(20:17):
this straight. He lands yesterday, He's like, you can go
to like a seven eleven in sweatpants with two guns
in your whole store exposed. But I can't place a
bed online because you actually can't Florida.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So yeah, no gambling for Thanksgiving, a little brother.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
We are governed by our community standards, you know. That's
that's the way it works. And he's in Florida.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I do think that there are dark stories underneath a
lot of this online betting and sort of the real
mainstreaming of it over the past five years. And this one,
like you said, seems un wise, not a great use
of your time on Thanksgiving, And it's like, do we
want to treat that like wordle like exactly right. It's
sort of treated as if like, oh, we're just doing
(20:57):
a game together as fam and I don't know, just
sit down and play par cheesy or something.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Totally. Do you have a wordle chat.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I don't have a world chat, but I know other people.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I'm not I'm not in touch with the people on
these things, but they.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Do have a wordal chat.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
It's very, very, very active every single day.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So that's good. You're learning new things. Yeah, it's doing
the vocabulary.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, vocabulary is better than betting on people you don't
know playing a sport, and that you have no, you
have no possibility of affecting.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
That's the thing.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Like where I always say like poker is different, and
it is different than even table games and casinos. You're
playing against the house, and poker you're playing against other
people and you're playing with your own skills.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So if poker is illegal.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I don't understand how betting on sports is legal. I'll
just you know, I'll be the bummer and say that
it shouldn't be quick.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Exit question before we go? What dish are you most
looking forward to?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Nobody agrees with me on this. It's the green beans.
It's the green beans.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
They're so good. I make one with a cornflake topping.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And it is delicious and it's next to me because
nobody else eats it, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I love We're the same, but I love a green
bean carast. Well, I am going to shout out a
different cast role that I only have on Thanksgiving. Well,
my dad makes a corn bread stuffing that is very
special for Thanksgiving too. It's very arduous and we only
do it once a year. But there is a potato
cast role in the South that's just like potatoes, cheese,
sour cream, male like all the things that are fat,
(22:31):
and then you put cheese on top and make that crispy,
and then you put the corn flakes on top with
the with the butter on top, and it is so
decadent and ridiculous, and I only eat it once a.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Year, and I love all Right, ship me that recipe.
Let's do it so we can. We can.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
We can trade off our our green beans and our
potato casroles. Care we go.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Well, I hope you're having a very happy Thanksgiving with
your families this week.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
We will be back with more normally on Tuesday. We're
gonna have a rerun on Thursday. We wish you all
the best. Have a happy and safe and healthy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
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