May 18, 2025 • 27 mins
Clay and Buck on the incredible historic stories that are not being told. The fascinating Bud Light Backstory.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Sunday Hang is brought to you by Chalk Natural
Supplements for guys, gals, and nothing in between. Fuel your
day at Chalk dot Com, Bold Reverence, and occasionally randomed
The Sunday Hang with playing podcast starts now. I do
think Clay were at the point where we need to
start having a conversation and pulling this together with the
(00:22):
contacts that we have, and I would just want to work,
you know, work on this. You're I think your idea
about Undaunted Courage. I mean, you'd have to get the
rights to use the name in that book, but the story,
the historical story of Lewis and Clark would be an incredible,
incredible series. And I just see, I see, I see
(00:43):
what Taylor Sheridan is doing and what he's tapping into
and I respect that. You know, he's he's going, He's
earned what he's gotten in terms of he is running
with stuff that is more you know, about entertainment and
about America and stuff that I think some of it
could be. I think he's a little overwhelmed with making
too many things at once, and some of the stuff's
(01:05):
been a little slap dash, but overall, he's incredibly and
guy's worth tons of money now because of this. But
I think that getting a series done on Lois and
Clark Expedition would be something to consider.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
You know, there's there's ways to get this stuff done
out there now and to and to raise the money
and to bring people into do it appropriately. And I
just think it would be fantastic and people really appreciate.
Look at the the podcast, like the Bible in the year,
I mean, look at the things that are it's always
a shock, a shock success when you go with traditional
(01:38):
great stories, and especially if you go with either traditional
Biblical you know, Judeo Christian, or you go with traditional Americana. Yeah,
the American market tends to like that stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Also, the stories are incredible, right, I mean the American
history stories that haven't been told Lewis and Clark is
a no brainer. I mean, if you read Undawned Courage,
but you gave me, was it the the Ernest Shackleton stories?
I mean, the Great Explorer stories? How have there not been?
(02:14):
And I know it's because they're worried about, oh, colonialism.
Let me just say this clip it, share it, have
it echo throughout the entire world. Western civilization is a
good thing, and almost every country that was ever colonized
is in a better position today than it would have
been if if the colonization had never happened. I don't
(02:35):
know why people aren't willing to say this, but Western
civilization is the reason why we are not all living,
to a large extent still in caves. Right. You find
the best things that are created in the world, and
you bring them to as many people as possible. I
love reading about the explorers because of the risks that
(02:56):
they took buck, but some of the stuff that they
were risking for still blow my fine spices. You know,
we don't even think about the value both for most
of us. I know some of your probably spice stars.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Salt was a tremendously valuable re. Salt like what we
just sort of assume is going to be on every
table at every restaurant, and we buy by the pound
for like a dollar. The word salary comes from the
Roman for salt, because they would pay the army in
pouches of salt sometimes instead of in coin.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The most spices think about this. The entire to a
large extent, exploring world was developed and explored in the
pursuit of spices. And these magical spice islands. I mean,
I encourage you if you are interested at all in
the world of exploration. That era, that fourteen hundreds, fifteen hundred,
(03:51):
sixteen hundreds Magellan, certainly Columbus discovering the New World, all
of that era is unbelievable. I mean, and there would
be a credit about it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
People have talked about and I've thought this too. Cortez
would be an amazing TV series. Uh, probably the most
unbelievable military conquest against the odds and all history when
you when you actually look at it and think about
what happened here to take over for five hundred men,
give or take a few hundred men, to take over
an empire with millions, literally millions of people. By the way,
(04:24):
it's a salary. It's actually that they would give them
some coin to buy the salt which they needed. But
salary comes from you know, it's from the root word
salt in the anti rom I just want to make sure
I know the you know, Clay, the pronunciation police are rough,
but the word derivation police are even. They don't they
don't play any games in this oh Man, also nerdier
(04:47):
even than the pronunciation police. The word derivation. Police are
even nerdier.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But your point just using history where you don't have
to pay, to a large extent, very much for copyright
or ip because the stories are in the public domain.
It is incredible to me the stories that are not
being told that would actually be very ennobling for larger humanity,
(05:11):
just stories.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I was sitting there with my dad last night trying
to figure out he's visiting down here in South South Florida,
and you know, we're we're sitting there and we're trying
to figure out what we're gonna watch, and we're just
going through Netflix and he's, you know, he's like me,
but with silver hair. It's funny. The people here that
were letting him in the at the front desk, they're like,
they didn't even call up, Like, yeah, I knew it's
(05:33):
your dad. I just look at him. He looks like you,
but with gray hair. I'm like, yeah, so, but we're
looking and he's like trash, trash, trash on Netflix, and
he's right, it's just trash that they're all these like
he's not being a grouch. He's correct, it's just trash
shows one after another that are made and there are
so many stories that are on time. I mean, I
think the Barbary Pirates, if you did that well, would
(05:54):
be awesome people learn about about, you know, Stephen Decatur
and the Ray and all these amazing things. There's so
many great stories and there are things that people would
want to see and that would inspire and that would
teach history. They do all this cool stuff, So I
just have that's part of it. I think everyone you know,
we're in I guess the entertainment business, right. I mean
it's media, it's news, but it's the entertainment business. And
(06:16):
when I see people who have the resources at their
disposal to inspire and entertain millions and millions of Americans,
and they just completely mess the whole thing up, like
what we're seeing with And it's not just one movie, right,
it's over and over again, but it's no why it's
just the most recent example of it's it's it's inexcusable
(06:39):
to me. It's like, who are these people and why
are they.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So bad at this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
And I think part of it is to your point.
I love when you pointed out that there's a black
female Viking in the Viking story. Some parts of history
are not going to be that diverse, because for large
parts of history there were not great diversity in many countries. Right,
like Japan looked like Japan.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
In the United States in the early days of the
United States look like the United States. Certainly England did,
Sweden did. There is a certain look that the countries had, right,
most people were culturally looked very similar. And I think
one of the reasons they won't do the stories is
because they are concerned about who the stars of the
(07:24):
stories are. And so if you do Valley Forge, for instance,
which would be can you imagine that story in the
early inception of the United States, to tell the story
of George Washington holding together the revolution, there's a lot
of white guys who are stars the founding of the country,
a lot of white guys involved. I think it's unfortunate
for Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And here's another example. What's the best show or a
movie about the American Revolution?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
There are a few.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I'm not saying they haven't been done. But when you
think about the richness of that period and how much
people would love you have The Patriot with mel Gibson,
which I think would be a lot of people, which would.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Be twenty years ago at this point, I mean, it's
a generation ago.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Now, well, see this is what I was what I
was gonna say, and you just came to the same conclusion.
Is everything that you're going to name essentially is from
decades ago. So somehow technology and and the money going
into the entertainment industry is more than it has ever been.
And you know, you have places like Amazon and Netflix
that can they can they can make shows that are
(08:27):
ten million dollars an episode, which is what they were
doing with Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones was it
was like a ten million dollar episode series. And they
can do that, and somehow they're still turning out trash now,
trash after trash, and it's just it's, uh, it doesn't
have to be this way, and it's reflective of broader
themes that we talk about in the politics and the
culture day in and day out. This is this is
(08:48):
you know, the America should be the mother load of
great stories and ideas and entertainment for the whole rest
of the world and specifically for America first and foremost,
and we've lost some of that. And I think it's
starting to turn and maybe going to come back.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I don't know if there will be things set up.
Next year is the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of
American declaring independence, and should that should be twenty twenty six,
seventeen seventy six to twenty twenty six, that should be
a time. To your argument, Buck, where there are a
(09:26):
lot of pro America American history stories, are they being
made right now? I don't know, you know, because the
truth of the matter is there's a multi year lag
from hey idea to inception, to the taping, to the
to the evolution to it reaching the audience. I hope
that you are going to see some of those things.
(09:48):
I'm very skeptical and to your point, there's never been
more money being spent on content. And yet if you
think about something that was really well done that has
to do with American history. I mean, here's a good question.
What was the last really good, well made American history story?
You mentioned the Patriot? I think some people would say, okay,
(10:09):
the Patriot that was two thousand and four, two thousand
and five. Probably the HBO John Adams series was good.
But you know, we're thinking about from that period, right
that was good. I don't think Paul Giamati would have
been my first choice. But whatever he's you know, people
are like, oh, but Giamatti, Okay, he's a good actor.
I think it was solid. Yeah, but they just haven't
I mean, there hasn't been anything. They're afraid to make
(10:30):
anything having to do with Civil War, right like, if
it has a Confederate flag in it, you.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Can't think I think you're touching on I think you're
touching on this again. I think that or rather, you're
going to the next part of our conversation right away,
which is I think that they would worry about showing people.
I think that there are a lot of those who
are in the creative side of things and work at
Netflix and work at Amazon, and you know those are
that's really the new movie studio. Just to be clear,
(10:54):
it's it's it's Apple, it's Amazon, it's Netflix, because they
can write any check they want for whatever com scent
they want. I think they're worried about showing George Washington
in too much of a positive light. I agree, because
he was because he was a slave owner. I think
they definitely were with the Confederates in him, with with
with the Confederate Yeah, with the Confederates. If they don't
show them as essentially you know, Nazis in blue and
(11:17):
gray uniforms. I think they worry about that. I mean,
this is getting into the mindset of the people who
think about American history and what they've been taught in school.
I do think this starts to become part of it.
And that's again symptomatic of broader of a broader decline
of love and respect for this country and its history
(11:38):
that has become far too widespread in the culture.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And I will say the HBO World War Two Band
of Brothers, that that that whole universe of movies. I
don't know that they would make those now that that
that show series incredible, right, I mean that.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Was Brothers not not diverse enough, not diverse enough. I
don't make it now.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't know if they would make I don't know
if HBO would make a super pro America story like that,
because to your point, most of the World War Two
soldiers were white guys, and there's too much too much
white guys in that. You know that maybe they would
put make George Patton Asian. I don't know, in order
to try to have a a large but race doesn't matter,
(12:21):
So we're just gonna have World War Two now played
by the diverse characters. I question and if if that
is true, right, if we are correct, what does it
say about our society that we have created that is
afraid to celebrate our history because of who that would
require them to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Look at how far we've come from the statue iconic
clasm spasm that we suffered under the BLM riots era,
remember that? Oh yeah, and it started, It started with
Confederate statues and then all of a sudden it was
like Gandhi and Churchill and.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
People that actually that's Lincoln.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, So this is a real, a real thing. That
is I think we're in a position now to finally
do something. And I think people, the mindset of the
American people, the ethos of American culture has gone to
a point now where this can finally change. And this
is why I brought up for I think this is
the first time, really it feels this way in fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean, they tried to redefine the founding of America.
And you'll probably hear some of this to the sixteen
nineteen project instead of seventeen seventy six. Right, Anybody who
has any sort of historical knowledge at all talked about
how ludicrous that was. Sunday Sizzle with Clay and Busch,
we are joined by Anson, Frearic's former president at Anaheuser
(13:50):
Busch co founder Strive Asset Management, his new book Last
Call for bud Light, The Fall and Future of America's
Favorite Beer, and Anson, I appreciate you joining us here.
I would submit that the failed Dylan mulvany bud Light deal,
the fact that they send her the bud Light cans him.
(14:13):
Whatever you want to say. Right around the March Madness Tournament,
I believe two years ago bud Light sales you can
update me on them. I believe are still down forty percent.
Is this the most destructive ad endorsement product relationship that
has ever existed in modern American capitalism? Can you think
(14:35):
of a worst one? Or is this the worst?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I mean, Clay, I think this is the worst one.
I mean, maybe you could say that when there was
New Coke, and New Coke came out in the nineteen
eighties and then Matt plummeted. Everybody hated New Coke. The
good thing about the Coke executive they should learn their lesson.
They say, hey, we screwed up, we apologize and they
went back to the old formula. And you know, Coke's
doing fine. But that's one of the big problems here
is that this company lost thirty percent of its sales
(14:59):
two years go. It lost another ten percent of its
sales last year with bud Light. It's still declining this year.
And one of the reasons is that no one's taking
accountability for this. I mean, the CEO is still there.
There's been no apology, and that's why customers really haven't
returned to here, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
What would you do. Let's pretend that they came to
you and they said, okay, bud Light is your business.
You have to in some way make it relevant again
for the audience that has abandoned it. Is there anything
they could do that would as you point out, they're
continuing to decline down forty percent. Is the brand dead
no matter what? Or is there a way to bring
it back to life?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
No? I mean I actually think there's a way to
bring this back to life. And I get into this
in my book, Last Call for blud Light, what you
mentioned about. But I just think one of the fundamental
problems is is that this company anhezzard Bush. It's no
longer American owned. It was actually purchased by a European
company called Indev about fifteen years ago, and then lots
of mistakes were made over that time period. The INDEV
company moved the corporate headquarters from kind of Saint Louis
(15:57):
to New York City, brought in a lot of foreign
executives that really they didn't understand the US consumer. They
adopted a lot of device apology of policies of ESG
and DEI. So a lot of those problems happen. I
think a lot of those go away if they actually
sell Anheizard Bush here in the US back to US citizens.
I mean, sell it to Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
sell it to a consortium of firms like a Blackstone
(16:19):
and Steve Schwartzman's group. Sell it to one of those.
I think the first thing they can do, which I
think would be good for this European business that hasn't
been able to really understand the US, and it'd be
good for the business here so they could focus more
here in the US. They could bring in American executives,
they could bring back I don't know a lot of
the commercials that we all love. I think even most
importantly is that they could tell their customers that we
(16:39):
were sorry, we screwed up, and that was this old regime.
We got rid of it, and now we're moving forward
with you know, kind of American regime, American values, focused
on our customer. We're not going to get involved in
any political silliness. So they got involved with over the
last couple of years. I think that's the first step.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Why do you think so many brands have ad buyers
and marketing people who have no idea who actually consumes
their product. Isn't that really kind of the essence of
how you make a mistake like this? As you mentioned,
you moved from Saint Louis to New York City. I
knew that bud Light was in real trouble, and I
said this, and it's remained the case. You go around
the tailgates. Now basically no guy who throws a tailgate
(17:18):
at a football game is buying bud Light anymore because
their buddies are going to make fun of them in
the wake of the destruction of the brand. But isn't
this emblematic of larger issues, whether it's with Target, whether
it's with Disney, whether it's with ESPN, the NBA, there
are just a lot of brands out there that have
no idea who their actual consumer is and as a result,
(17:42):
they're completely alienating them.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, Clay, I mean you're one hundred percent right about that.
This is not just an Anheuser Busch problem. Anheuser Busch
was the one that was holding the pin when this
whole ESG DEI bubble pop two years ago, and they
were the first time that you saw that millions of
consumers ditched a brand that led to billions of dollars
of loss of shareholder value. And this for the first time,
I think actually was a wake up call to a
(18:05):
lot of the broader corporations. I mean, you don't get
the big rollback in ESG and DEI that you're seeing
right now without the whole bud Light example, where you
all of a sudden, this is the least sustainable thing
that a company could do was to pander to a
group that wasn't it wasn't necessarily their customer base, and
that they got a brand involved in them that wasn't
authentically bud Light. You know, bud Like used to be
about sports and music and bringing folks together, never got
(18:27):
involved in controversial political issues. They lost sight of that
because they had marketing people based in New York and
they used marketing based New York for firms based in
New York City. And then that was like one of
the bigger issues that we saw really across corporate America.
A lot of these firms that were based in Saint
Louis or in Arkansas or Texas, all of a sudden,
they were moving a lot of their headquarters in New York,
(18:48):
hiring New York firms, taking in advice from a lot
of New York based asset management companies. Black Rocks a
good example, who is foicing an ESG and DEI agenda
on them? And so this led to a lot of problems.
We saw a lot of companies that lost their way
over the last couple of years. I'm actually pleased to
say that there's companies like Disney, they're at least making
the right steps back in the right direction. They fired
(19:09):
their CEO, Bob Chapik, they brought back Bob Iiger. Bob
Iger said, we're getting out of politics. We're not doing
it anymore. They've rolled back a lot of their DEI
policies in recent weeks. Are they perfect? No, but at
least that they acknowledged that there was a problem. I
hope we're seeing that more across corporate America. I think
Annezard Bushes just a little bit behind the eight ball
on getting there.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
A lot of people said, we're talking to Anson fre
Eric's from bud Light, former president there. He's got a
book out last Call for bud Light. Usually people say, oh,
this is not going to last. Two years later, basically
we're still dealing with the continued fallout for bud Light.
Do you think they've been stunned by how toxic their
brand has become? Do you think they ever expected it
(19:48):
to go on this long? Is that why they didn't apologize.
They just kept hoping, Oh this is going to go away,
Oh this is going to go away, And in the
process their brand just vanished.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, I mean one hundred percent. That's so they thought,
because they're really hadn't been a very successful i'll call
it consumer boycott previous to this. You know, of course
people were upset when in the NFL. People were kneeling
in the NFL, But what are you going to do?
There is no other alternative on Sundays in the NFL.
You have people were upset at Disney when Disney got
involved in front of rights issues in Florida, but you know,
if your kids want to go to Disney World and
(20:18):
not a lot of alternatives. Bud Light was uniquely susceptible
to this massive boycott really for two reasons. As one
is that they have a commoditized brand, where everywhere there's
bud Light, there's also Miller Lite and cores Light at
the exact same price. And then secondarily, people could actually
see the impact of this boycott. Every single week there's
sales data from retailers like Walmart and Kroger in seven
(20:39):
to eleven that gets reported, So every week you were
seeing in real time the bud Light sales were down
ten percent, twenty percent, thirty percent, forty percent. And then
with the effect of social media, you had everybody that
was posting photos and videos online of like the bud
Light line at a baseball game empty and a cores
lightline thirty deep, and so that has just had this
big impact on the business that they they didn't realize
(21:00):
how susceptible they were because for ninety five percent of
the American population, They can't tell the difference between bud Light,
Miller Lite, Course Light. The only thing that differentiates them
is their brand. And bud Light used to be that
fun sports music, backyard barbecuing kind of like Americana brand
that you're talking about. All the guys used to drink
at tailgates as the most acceptable brand of the biggest
(21:20):
beer brand. And then when they lost that identity and
all of a sudden, it became this almost like brand
like Ben and Jerry's. Where are they advocating for certain
social issues and more progressive causes by getting involved with
Dylan Mulvanium and not even being able to articulate to
the customer what the brand stands for moving forward. I
mean you remember that right after this happened, their CEO
had multiple botched attempts of trying to talk about bud Light,
(21:43):
never apologize their loyal customer base that was called Fradday
out of touch, nor talked the more progressive customer base
and said, you know, hey, we're going to be more
like Ben and Jerry's. And I don't know, when you
walk in the middle of a cultural battlefield. They ended
up getting shot at from both sides.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
No, And I think that's a really important part here
about the commoditized brand nature. Chick fil A got ripped
to the high heavens and even people out there that
are super left wing or like, you know, I might
not agree with Chick fil A on whatever LGBTQI issue
there is, but they got a great chicken sandwich, and
so I'm gonna keep showing up. I love their waffle fries.
(22:17):
I'm not trying to give a free advertisement for Chick
fil A, but I love the brand and it's hard
for me to think of something they could do that
would make me change my decision. But to your point,
for a lot of people who go into a grocery
store or go into a gas station and are gonna
grab a twelve or a twenty four pack of a beer,
there isn't a lot of difference between Miller Lite, bud Light,
(22:40):
Course Light. I know I'm gonna get blown up by
guys out there like I can tell a tremendous difference.
I disagree like Guinness, right, you know when you're drinking
a Guinness, You know when you're drinking a certain type
of beer that has a different flavor and taste. I
think for most people, light beer is relatively easily replaceable.
Let me ask you this question, and I think that's
(23:01):
an important part about why the boycott works so well.
It was an easy change for people to make. Target
smart guy. I really like him. James auth Meyer now
the attorney general in the state of Florida. One of
the first things he's done is file a lawsuit against Target,
going after them for burning up a great deal of
shareholder value, he says, by basically going all in with
(23:23):
the tuck bathing suits, everything else. What you do now
I think is important. But in some way, is that
the effective method to get businesses back to just saying, hey,
can you just serve everybody? Democrat, Republican, Independent, You don't
need to go after this woke agenda. Is there a
lawsuit mechanism in your mind that could be pursued and
(23:47):
should be pursued.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I mean, there is a lawsuit mechanism, and you know,
if you go back, really the lawsuits that are coming
out right now goes back to really the Civil Rights
Act of nineteen sixty four, which essentially says that you
cannot discriminate off of a race, sex, gender, national origin, etc.
And a lot of retailers. I mean, Target was one
of these, and in the post George Floyd era that
they came out with a lot of essentially racist policies
(24:11):
against certain people. They said that you're going to hire
a certain quota of people that look this way. Target
was allocating shelf space at their stores based off of race,
sex color. That just doesn't make any sense in the
society we're living in. I mean, we live in a meritocracy.
You should be able to put the products in the
shelf that sell. That's the right thing for the customer,
that's the right thing for your shareholder value as well.
(24:33):
I think that's the bigger issue that Targets facings like
why are you pushing forward with a certain really social
type agenda as opposed to putting what sells. And I
think that the bigger issue with Target was, you know,
when you walk into a Target store, their most valuable
real estate is that first big display area right when
you walk in, and when they're putting tuck friendly bathing
suits across every single Target across America, Well, that's not
(24:54):
what the majority of their customer base wants. And that's
not good for shareholders, not good for shareholder value. Yes,
I think the lawsuits will make sure that they're abiding
by sort of the Civil Rights Act and making sure
that they're not discriminating against people. I think even more importantly,
I think that the American consumer has gone to Walmart's,
has gone to other areas, and Target stock price has
been in the tank over the last year or two
since this controversy. I think what's going to turn around
(25:16):
is again Target recmmitting this fundamental principles of serving their customers,
bringing customers back by giving more of the products of
what they want. I think that's the more effective way
to get this thing turned around, and consumers again just
vote with your wallets. That's the more effective way to
get back to serving all customers.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
The book is last call for bud Light Anson Freeric's
former president, Ann Heuser Busch speaking with us, last question
for you on a positive side, is every major brand
in America now having meetings on a regular basis where
they say, whatever we do, let's make sure we're not
the next bud Light have. Does the American consumer sent
a huge and important message to corporate America by not
(25:55):
buying bud Light.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think they have the most importantly, I think most
brands right now now are having a conversation about just
how do you build trust with the consumer, and you
do it by being authentic. I mean you mentioned Chick
fil A earlier, like, I know on Sunday's Chick fil
A is going to be closed. That's like, you know,
I can trust that it's going to be closed. And
I also know this because the family who owns it.
I mean they're like, you know, Seventh day Adventists. That's
(26:18):
their right. They can be closed, they can do what
they want to do, they can advocate for policies they want.
That's chick fil A. Let Chick fil A be Chick
fil A. That's what makes it unique, interesting and different.
And the same thing with bud Light. Like one of
the things that was just authentic and true about bud
Light is that it was this funny, spratty, you know,
kind of kind of a inside humor type of brand.
Let bud Light be bud Light. It didn't need to
(26:38):
be Ben and Jerry's by getting involved in every single
social issue, and I think that's more the conversation that's
being had. That's what my book talks a lot about,
is about that authenticity. Getting back to trust with brands,
building that back in corporate America, and I think that
we're starting to see the pendulum swing back. I'm optimistic
that it will continue to happen. That'll be good for
I think American businesses, American shareholder capitalism, and I think
it'll be better for democracy as well if we're keeping
(27:00):
businesses out of politics.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Check it out last call for bud light Anson Freeriks.
Appreciate the time, have a good weekend.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Thanks Clay, have a good one.
The Sunday Hang is brought to you by Chalk Natural
Supplements for guys, gals, and nothing in between. Fuel your
day at Chalk dot Com, Bold Reverence, and occasionally randomed
The Sunday Hang with playing podcast starts now. I do
think Clay were at the point where we need to
start having a conversation and pulling this together with the
(00:22):
contacts that we have, and I would just want to work,
you know, work on this. You're I think your idea
about Undaunted Courage. I mean, you'd have to get the
rights to use the name in that book, but the story,
the historical story of Lewis and Clark would be an incredible,
incredible series. And I just see, I see, I see
(00:43):
what Taylor Sheridan is doing and what he's tapping into
and I respect that. You know, he's he's going, He's
earned what he's gotten in terms of he is running
with stuff that is more you know, about entertainment and
about America and stuff that I think some of it
could be. I think he's a little overwhelmed with making
too many things at once, and some of the stuff's
(01:05):
been a little slap dash, but overall, he's incredibly and
guy's worth tons of money now because of this. But
I think that getting a series done on Lois and
Clark Expedition would be something to consider.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
You know, there's there's ways to get this stuff done
out there now and to and to raise the money
and to bring people into do it appropriately. And I
just think it would be fantastic and people really appreciate.
Look at the the podcast, like the Bible in the year,
I mean, look at the things that are it's always
a shock, a shock success when you go with traditional
(01:38):
great stories, and especially if you go with either traditional
Biblical you know, Judeo Christian, or you go with traditional Americana. Yeah,
the American market tends to like that stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Also, the stories are incredible, right, I mean the American
history stories that haven't been told Lewis and Clark is
a no brainer. I mean, if you read Undawned Courage,
but you gave me, was it the the Ernest Shackleton stories?
I mean, the Great Explorer stories? How have there not been?
(02:14):
And I know it's because they're worried about, oh, colonialism.
Let me just say this clip it, share it, have
it echo throughout the entire world. Western civilization is a
good thing, and almost every country that was ever colonized
is in a better position today than it would have
been if if the colonization had never happened. I don't
(02:35):
know why people aren't willing to say this, but Western
civilization is the reason why we are not all living,
to a large extent still in caves. Right. You find
the best things that are created in the world, and
you bring them to as many people as possible. I
love reading about the explorers because of the risks that
(02:56):
they took buck, but some of the stuff that they
were risking for still blow my fine spices. You know,
we don't even think about the value both for most
of us. I know some of your probably spice stars.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Salt was a tremendously valuable re. Salt like what we
just sort of assume is going to be on every
table at every restaurant, and we buy by the pound
for like a dollar. The word salary comes from the
Roman for salt, because they would pay the army in
pouches of salt sometimes instead of in coin.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The most spices think about this. The entire to a
large extent, exploring world was developed and explored in the
pursuit of spices. And these magical spice islands. I mean,
I encourage you if you are interested at all in
the world of exploration. That era, that fourteen hundreds, fifteen hundred,
(03:51):
sixteen hundreds Magellan, certainly Columbus discovering the New World, all
of that era is unbelievable. I mean, and there would
be a credit about it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
People have talked about and I've thought this too. Cortez
would be an amazing TV series. Uh, probably the most
unbelievable military conquest against the odds and all history when
you when you actually look at it and think about
what happened here to take over for five hundred men,
give or take a few hundred men, to take over
an empire with millions, literally millions of people. By the way,
(04:24):
it's a salary. It's actually that they would give them
some coin to buy the salt which they needed. But
salary comes from you know, it's from the root word
salt in the anti rom I just want to make sure
I know the you know, Clay, the pronunciation police are rough,
but the word derivation police are even. They don't they
don't play any games in this oh Man, also nerdier
(04:47):
even than the pronunciation police. The word derivation. Police are
even nerdier.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But your point just using history where you don't have
to pay, to a large extent, very much for copyright
or ip because the stories are in the public domain.
It is incredible to me the stories that are not
being told that would actually be very ennobling for larger humanity,
(05:11):
just stories.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I was sitting there with my dad last night trying
to figure out he's visiting down here in South South Florida,
and you know, we're we're sitting there and we're trying
to figure out what we're gonna watch, and we're just
going through Netflix and he's, you know, he's like me,
but with silver hair. It's funny. The people here that
were letting him in the at the front desk, they're like,
they didn't even call up, Like, yeah, I knew it's
(05:33):
your dad. I just look at him. He looks like you,
but with gray hair. I'm like, yeah, so, but we're
looking and he's like trash, trash, trash on Netflix, and
he's right, it's just trash that they're all these like
he's not being a grouch. He's correct, it's just trash
shows one after another that are made and there are
so many stories that are on time. I mean, I
think the Barbary Pirates, if you did that well, would
(05:54):
be awesome people learn about about, you know, Stephen Decatur
and the Ray and all these amazing things. There's so
many great stories and there are things that people would
want to see and that would inspire and that would
teach history. They do all this cool stuff, So I
just have that's part of it. I think everyone you know,
we're in I guess the entertainment business, right. I mean
it's media, it's news, but it's the entertainment business. And
(06:16):
when I see people who have the resources at their
disposal to inspire and entertain millions and millions of Americans,
and they just completely mess the whole thing up, like
what we're seeing with And it's not just one movie, right,
it's over and over again, but it's no why it's
just the most recent example of it's it's it's inexcusable
(06:39):
to me. It's like, who are these people and why
are they.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So bad at this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
And I think part of it is to your point.
I love when you pointed out that there's a black
female Viking in the Viking story. Some parts of history
are not going to be that diverse, because for large
parts of history there were not great diversity in many countries. Right,
like Japan looked like Japan.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
In the United States in the early days of the
United States look like the United States. Certainly England did,
Sweden did. There is a certain look that the countries had, right,
most people were culturally looked very similar. And I think
one of the reasons they won't do the stories is
because they are concerned about who the stars of the
(07:24):
stories are. And so if you do Valley Forge, for instance,
which would be can you imagine that story in the
early inception of the United States, to tell the story
of George Washington holding together the revolution, there's a lot
of white guys who are stars the founding of the country,
a lot of white guys involved. I think it's unfortunate
for Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And here's another example. What's the best show or a
movie about the American Revolution?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
There are a few.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I'm not saying they haven't been done. But when you
think about the richness of that period and how much
people would love you have The Patriot with mel Gibson,
which I think would be a lot of people, which would.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Be twenty years ago at this point, I mean, it's
a generation ago.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Now, well, see this is what I was what I
was gonna say, and you just came to the same conclusion.
Is everything that you're going to name essentially is from
decades ago. So somehow technology and and the money going
into the entertainment industry is more than it has ever been.
And you know, you have places like Amazon and Netflix
that can they can they can make shows that are
(08:27):
ten million dollars an episode, which is what they were
doing with Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones was it
was like a ten million dollar episode series. And they
can do that, and somehow they're still turning out trash now,
trash after trash, and it's just it's, uh, it doesn't
have to be this way, and it's reflective of broader
themes that we talk about in the politics and the
culture day in and day out. This is this is
(08:48):
you know, the America should be the mother load of
great stories and ideas and entertainment for the whole rest
of the world and specifically for America first and foremost,
and we've lost some of that. And I think it's
starting to turn and maybe going to come back.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I don't know if there will be things set up.
Next year is the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of
American declaring independence, and should that should be twenty twenty six,
seventeen seventy six to twenty twenty six, that should be
a time. To your argument, Buck, where there are a
(09:26):
lot of pro America American history stories, are they being
made right now? I don't know, you know, because the
truth of the matter is there's a multi year lag
from hey idea to inception, to the taping, to the
to the evolution to it reaching the audience. I hope
that you are going to see some of those things.
(09:48):
I'm very skeptical and to your point, there's never been
more money being spent on content. And yet if you
think about something that was really well done that has
to do with American history. I mean, here's a good question.
What was the last really good, well made American history story?
You mentioned the Patriot? I think some people would say, okay,
(10:09):
the Patriot that was two thousand and four, two thousand
and five. Probably the HBO John Adams series was good.
But you know, we're thinking about from that period, right
that was good. I don't think Paul Giamati would have
been my first choice. But whatever he's you know, people
are like, oh, but Giamatti, Okay, he's a good actor.
I think it was solid. Yeah, but they just haven't
I mean, there hasn't been anything. They're afraid to make
(10:30):
anything having to do with Civil War, right like, if
it has a Confederate flag in it, you.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Can't think I think you're touching on I think you're
touching on this again. I think that or rather, you're
going to the next part of our conversation right away,
which is I think that they would worry about showing people.
I think that there are a lot of those who
are in the creative side of things and work at
Netflix and work at Amazon, and you know those are
that's really the new movie studio. Just to be clear,
(10:54):
it's it's it's Apple, it's Amazon, it's Netflix, because they
can write any check they want for whatever com scent
they want. I think they're worried about showing George Washington
in too much of a positive light. I agree, because
he was because he was a slave owner. I think
they definitely were with the Confederates in him, with with
with the Confederate Yeah, with the Confederates. If they don't
show them as essentially you know, Nazis in blue and
(11:17):
gray uniforms. I think they worry about that. I mean,
this is getting into the mindset of the people who
think about American history and what they've been taught in school.
I do think this starts to become part of it.
And that's again symptomatic of broader of a broader decline
of love and respect for this country and its history
(11:38):
that has become far too widespread in the culture.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And I will say the HBO World War Two Band
of Brothers, that that that whole universe of movies. I
don't know that they would make those now that that
that show series incredible, right, I mean that.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Was Brothers not not diverse enough, not diverse enough. I
don't make it now.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't know if they would make I don't know
if HBO would make a super pro America story like that,
because to your point, most of the World War Two
soldiers were white guys, and there's too much too much
white guys in that. You know that maybe they would
put make George Patton Asian. I don't know, in order
to try to have a a large but race doesn't matter,
(12:21):
So we're just gonna have World War Two now played
by the diverse characters. I question and if if that
is true, right, if we are correct, what does it
say about our society that we have created that is
afraid to celebrate our history because of who that would
require them to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Look at how far we've come from the statue iconic
clasm spasm that we suffered under the BLM riots era,
remember that? Oh yeah, and it started, It started with
Confederate statues and then all of a sudden it was
like Gandhi and Churchill and.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
People that actually that's Lincoln.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, So this is a real, a real thing. That
is I think we're in a position now to finally
do something. And I think people, the mindset of the
American people, the ethos of American culture has gone to
a point now where this can finally change. And this
is why I brought up for I think this is
the first time, really it feels this way in fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean, they tried to redefine the founding of America.
And you'll probably hear some of this to the sixteen
nineteen project instead of seventeen seventy six. Right, Anybody who
has any sort of historical knowledge at all talked about
how ludicrous that was. Sunday Sizzle with Clay and Busch,
we are joined by Anson, Frearic's former president at Anaheuser
(13:50):
Busch co founder Strive Asset Management, his new book Last
Call for bud Light, The Fall and Future of America's
Favorite Beer, and Anson, I appreciate you joining us here.
I would submit that the failed Dylan mulvany bud Light deal,
the fact that they send her the bud Light cans him.
(14:13):
Whatever you want to say. Right around the March Madness Tournament,
I believe two years ago bud Light sales you can
update me on them. I believe are still down forty percent.
Is this the most destructive ad endorsement product relationship that
has ever existed in modern American capitalism? Can you think
(14:35):
of a worst one? Or is this the worst?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I mean, Clay, I think this is the worst one.
I mean, maybe you could say that when there was
New Coke, and New Coke came out in the nineteen
eighties and then Matt plummeted. Everybody hated New Coke. The
good thing about the Coke executive they should learn their lesson.
They say, hey, we screwed up, we apologize and they
went back to the old formula. And you know, Coke's
doing fine. But that's one of the big problems here
is that this company lost thirty percent of its sales
(14:59):
two years go. It lost another ten percent of its
sales last year with bud Light. It's still declining this year.
And one of the reasons is that no one's taking
accountability for this. I mean, the CEO is still there.
There's been no apology, and that's why customers really haven't
returned to here, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
What would you do. Let's pretend that they came to
you and they said, okay, bud Light is your business.
You have to in some way make it relevant again
for the audience that has abandoned it. Is there anything
they could do that would as you point out, they're
continuing to decline down forty percent. Is the brand dead
no matter what? Or is there a way to bring
it back to life?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
No? I mean I actually think there's a way to
bring this back to life. And I get into this
in my book, Last Call for blud Light, what you
mentioned about. But I just think one of the fundamental
problems is is that this company anhezzard Bush. It's no
longer American owned. It was actually purchased by a European
company called Indev about fifteen years ago, and then lots
of mistakes were made over that time period. The INDEV
company moved the corporate headquarters from kind of Saint Louis
(15:57):
to New York City, brought in a lot of foreign
executives that really they didn't understand the US consumer. They
adopted a lot of device apology of policies of ESG
and DEI. So a lot of those problems happen. I
think a lot of those go away if they actually
sell Anheizard Bush here in the US back to US citizens.
I mean, sell it to Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
sell it to a consortium of firms like a Blackstone
(16:19):
and Steve Schwartzman's group. Sell it to one of those.
I think the first thing they can do, which I
think would be good for this European business that hasn't
been able to really understand the US, and it'd be
good for the business here so they could focus more
here in the US. They could bring in American executives,
they could bring back I don't know a lot of
the commercials that we all love. I think even most
importantly is that they could tell their customers that we
(16:39):
were sorry, we screwed up, and that was this old regime.
We got rid of it, and now we're moving forward
with you know, kind of American regime, American values, focused
on our customer. We're not going to get involved in
any political silliness. So they got involved with over the
last couple of years. I think that's the first step.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Why do you think so many brands have ad buyers
and marketing people who have no idea who actually consumes
their product. Isn't that really kind of the essence of
how you make a mistake like this? As you mentioned,
you moved from Saint Louis to New York City. I
knew that bud Light was in real trouble, and I
said this, and it's remained the case. You go around
the tailgates. Now basically no guy who throws a tailgate
(17:18):
at a football game is buying bud Light anymore because
their buddies are going to make fun of them in
the wake of the destruction of the brand. But isn't
this emblematic of larger issues, whether it's with Target, whether
it's with Disney, whether it's with ESPN, the NBA, there
are just a lot of brands out there that have
no idea who their actual consumer is and as a result,
(17:42):
they're completely alienating them.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, Clay, I mean you're one hundred percent right about that.
This is not just an Anheuser Busch problem. Anheuser Busch
was the one that was holding the pin when this
whole ESG DEI bubble pop two years ago, and they
were the first time that you saw that millions of
consumers ditched a brand that led to billions of dollars
of loss of shareholder value. And this for the first time,
I think actually was a wake up call to a
(18:05):
lot of the broader corporations. I mean, you don't get
the big rollback in ESG and DEI that you're seeing
right now without the whole bud Light example, where you
all of a sudden, this is the least sustainable thing
that a company could do was to pander to a
group that wasn't it wasn't necessarily their customer base, and
that they got a brand involved in them that wasn't
authentically bud Light. You know, bud Like used to be
about sports and music and bringing folks together, never got
(18:27):
involved in controversial political issues. They lost sight of that
because they had marketing people based in New York and
they used marketing based New York for firms based in
New York City. And then that was like one of
the bigger issues that we saw really across corporate America.
A lot of these firms that were based in Saint
Louis or in Arkansas or Texas, all of a sudden,
they were moving a lot of their headquarters in New York,
(18:48):
hiring New York firms, taking in advice from a lot
of New York based asset management companies. Black Rocks a
good example, who is foicing an ESG and DEI agenda
on them? And so this led to a lot of problems.
We saw a lot of companies that lost their way
over the last couple of years. I'm actually pleased to
say that there's companies like Disney, they're at least making
the right steps back in the right direction. They fired
(19:09):
their CEO, Bob Chapik, they brought back Bob Iiger. Bob
Iger said, we're getting out of politics. We're not doing
it anymore. They've rolled back a lot of their DEI
policies in recent weeks. Are they perfect? No, but at
least that they acknowledged that there was a problem. I
hope we're seeing that more across corporate America. I think
Annezard Bushes just a little bit behind the eight ball
on getting there.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
A lot of people said, we're talking to Anson fre
Eric's from bud Light, former president there. He's got a
book out last Call for bud Light. Usually people say, oh,
this is not going to last. Two years later, basically
we're still dealing with the continued fallout for bud Light.
Do you think they've been stunned by how toxic their
brand has become? Do you think they ever expected it
(19:48):
to go on this long? Is that why they didn't apologize.
They just kept hoping, Oh this is going to go away,
Oh this is going to go away, And in the
process their brand just vanished.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, I mean one hundred percent. That's so they thought,
because they're really hadn't been a very successful i'll call
it consumer boycott previous to this. You know, of course
people were upset when in the NFL. People were kneeling
in the NFL, But what are you going to do?
There is no other alternative on Sundays in the NFL.
You have people were upset at Disney when Disney got
involved in front of rights issues in Florida, but you know,
if your kids want to go to Disney World and
(20:18):
not a lot of alternatives. Bud Light was uniquely susceptible
to this massive boycott really for two reasons. As one
is that they have a commoditized brand, where everywhere there's
bud Light, there's also Miller Lite and cores Light at
the exact same price. And then secondarily, people could actually
see the impact of this boycott. Every single week there's
sales data from retailers like Walmart and Kroger in seven
(20:39):
to eleven that gets reported, So every week you were
seeing in real time the bud Light sales were down
ten percent, twenty percent, thirty percent, forty percent. And then
with the effect of social media, you had everybody that
was posting photos and videos online of like the bud
Light line at a baseball game empty and a cores
lightline thirty deep, and so that has just had this
big impact on the business that they they didn't realize
(21:00):
how susceptible they were because for ninety five percent of
the American population, They can't tell the difference between bud Light,
Miller Lite, Course Light. The only thing that differentiates them
is their brand. And bud Light used to be that
fun sports music, backyard barbecuing kind of like Americana brand
that you're talking about. All the guys used to drink
at tailgates as the most acceptable brand of the biggest
(21:20):
beer brand. And then when they lost that identity and
all of a sudden, it became this almost like brand
like Ben and Jerry's. Where are they advocating for certain
social issues and more progressive causes by getting involved with
Dylan Mulvanium and not even being able to articulate to
the customer what the brand stands for moving forward. I
mean you remember that right after this happened, their CEO
had multiple botched attempts of trying to talk about bud Light,
(21:43):
never apologize their loyal customer base that was called Fradday
out of touch, nor talked the more progressive customer base
and said, you know, hey, we're going to be more
like Ben and Jerry's. And I don't know, when you
walk in the middle of a cultural battlefield. They ended
up getting shot at from both sides.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
No, And I think that's a really important part here
about the commoditized brand nature. Chick fil A got ripped
to the high heavens and even people out there that
are super left wing or like, you know, I might
not agree with Chick fil A on whatever LGBTQI issue
there is, but they got a great chicken sandwich, and
so I'm gonna keep showing up. I love their waffle fries.
(22:17):
I'm not trying to give a free advertisement for Chick
fil A, but I love the brand and it's hard
for me to think of something they could do that
would make me change my decision. But to your point,
for a lot of people who go into a grocery
store or go into a gas station and are gonna
grab a twelve or a twenty four pack of a beer,
there isn't a lot of difference between Miller Lite, bud Light,
(22:40):
Course Light. I know I'm gonna get blown up by
guys out there like I can tell a tremendous difference.
I disagree like Guinness, right, you know when you're drinking
a Guinness, You know when you're drinking a certain type
of beer that has a different flavor and taste. I
think for most people, light beer is relatively easily replaceable.
Let me ask you this question, and I think that's
(23:01):
an important part about why the boycott works so well.
It was an easy change for people to make. Target
smart guy. I really like him. James auth Meyer now
the attorney general in the state of Florida. One of
the first things he's done is file a lawsuit against Target,
going after them for burning up a great deal of
shareholder value, he says, by basically going all in with
(23:23):
the tuck bathing suits, everything else. What you do now
I think is important. But in some way, is that
the effective method to get businesses back to just saying, hey,
can you just serve everybody? Democrat, Republican, Independent, You don't
need to go after this woke agenda. Is there a
lawsuit mechanism in your mind that could be pursued and
(23:47):
should be pursued.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I mean, there is a lawsuit mechanism, and you know,
if you go back, really the lawsuits that are coming
out right now goes back to really the Civil Rights
Act of nineteen sixty four, which essentially says that you
cannot discriminate off of a race, sex, gender, national origin, etc.
And a lot of retailers. I mean, Target was one
of these, and in the post George Floyd era that
they came out with a lot of essentially racist policies
(24:11):
against certain people. They said that you're going to hire
a certain quota of people that look this way. Target
was allocating shelf space at their stores based off of race,
sex color. That just doesn't make any sense in the
society we're living in. I mean, we live in a meritocracy.
You should be able to put the products in the
shelf that sell. That's the right thing for the customer,
that's the right thing for your shareholder value as well.
(24:33):
I think that's the bigger issue that Targets facings like
why are you pushing forward with a certain really social
type agenda as opposed to putting what sells. And I
think that the bigger issue with Target was, you know,
when you walk into a Target store, their most valuable
real estate is that first big display area right when
you walk in, and when they're putting tuck friendly bathing
suits across every single Target across America, Well, that's not
(24:54):
what the majority of their customer base wants. And that's
not good for shareholders, not good for shareholder value. Yes,
I think the lawsuits will make sure that they're abiding
by sort of the Civil Rights Act and making sure
that they're not discriminating against people. I think even more importantly,
I think that the American consumer has gone to Walmart's,
has gone to other areas, and Target stock price has
been in the tank over the last year or two
since this controversy. I think what's going to turn around
(25:16):
is again Target recmmitting this fundamental principles of serving their customers,
bringing customers back by giving more of the products of
what they want. I think that's the more effective way
to get this thing turned around, and consumers again just
vote with your wallets. That's the more effective way to
get back to serving all customers.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
The book is last call for bud Light Anson Freeric's
former president, Ann Heuser Busch speaking with us, last question
for you on a positive side, is every major brand
in America now having meetings on a regular basis where
they say, whatever we do, let's make sure we're not
the next bud Light have. Does the American consumer sent
a huge and important message to corporate America by not
(25:55):
buying bud Light.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think they have the most importantly, I think most
brands right now now are having a conversation about just
how do you build trust with the consumer, and you
do it by being authentic. I mean you mentioned Chick
fil A earlier, like, I know on Sunday's Chick fil
A is going to be closed. That's like, you know,
I can trust that it's going to be closed. And
I also know this because the family who owns it.
I mean they're like, you know, Seventh day Adventists. That's
(26:18):
their right. They can be closed, they can do what
they want to do, they can advocate for policies they want.
That's chick fil A. Let Chick fil A be Chick
fil A. That's what makes it unique, interesting and different.
And the same thing with bud Light. Like one of
the things that was just authentic and true about bud
Light is that it was this funny, spratty, you know,
kind of kind of a inside humor type of brand.
Let bud Light be bud Light. It didn't need to
(26:38):
be Ben and Jerry's by getting involved in every single
social issue, and I think that's more the conversation that's
being had. That's what my book talks a lot about,
is about that authenticity. Getting back to trust with brands,
building that back in corporate America, and I think that
we're starting to see the pendulum swing back. I'm optimistic
that it will continue to happen. That'll be good for
I think American businesses, American shareholder capitalism, and I think
it'll be better for democracy as well if we're keeping
(27:00):
businesses out of politics.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Check it out last call for bud light Anson Freeriks.
Appreciate the time, have a good weekend.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Thanks Clay, have a good one.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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