August 13, 2025 • 73 mins
In 1995, Navy SEAL trainee Dusty Turner’s life changed forever. What started as a night out ended in tragedy, a murder charge, and a conviction that many believe is one of the greatest injustices in modern military history.
David Rutherford sits down with Martin Jenns and Erin Lottman, two tireless advocates for Dusty, to uncover the truth behind the crime, the broken legal process, and the decades-long fight for justice.
From SEAL training brotherhood to courtroom battles, this episode exposes the full story—and asks you to join the movement to help free Dusty Turner.
Watch the documentary: Navy SEAL: Murderer? Framed? Target of Opportunity?
on Amazon Prime.
Learn more & sign the petition: https://www.freedusty.com
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
02:32 - Why Erin and Martin are fighting for Dusty's freedom
09:40 - The Story Behind The Case
24:19 - Dusty's Case Breakdown
29:40 - The Obvious Flaws In Dusty's Case
33:03 - Dusty's State Of Mind During Trial
39:27 - Who Is Brown, The Man Who Confessed?
50:58 - Why Is Dusty Still In Jail After Being Found Innocent?
5752 - The Documentary, and Who Dusty Is As A Man
01:07:12 - How You Can Help
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In nineteen ninety five, I entered basic underwater demolition Seal
training and in the midst of going through training, there
was a case that came out of Little Creek, Virginia,
and it was the case of two young seal recruits
that had made it over to the teams who had
gotten arrested for the murder of a young girl, a
(00:24):
young college student vacationing. And I remember the impact that
this had on our experience. I remember sitting in second
phase and having our senior chief came in and began
to give us an ethics class, and it was one
of the most impactful things I had ever heard. And
(00:47):
it was perplexing at the time that how two young
boys who had just gone through the most difficult, arduous
thing that you could go through would have a lapse
of reasoning where they would kill somebody out of a
fit of rage or some sexual desire. And I just
(01:08):
couldn't wrap my mind around it. Well, since that time,
this case has gotten a lot of attention back then,
but it's died off, and as a result, so too
has the hopes of Dusty Turner, a young man that
has been incarcerated for this crime for over twenty plus
(01:32):
years and just the other day, I was on my
Instagram feed and I saw this free Dusty campaign that
came across and after the second time I saw it,
I clicked on it and I began to read the
free Dusty dot com website and the fact that this
(01:54):
young man is still just grown man, is still incarcerated
to this date. So what I wanted to do today
is I wanted to bring the people who are responsible
for this movement to bring awareness to it, to bring
awareness to you so that hopefully, in some way, shape
or form, you can participate in bringing some justice to
(02:16):
a young man that's already served his time. So, without
further ado, I'd like to introduce you to Martin Jens
and Aaron Lottman. So thank you both so much for
coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Thank you, Thank you, Dave.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
It's good to be with you.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Martin, I'll start with you, how did you get involved
with this, what were the circumstances and why now are
you investing so much of your time and trying to
bring justice to Dusty.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Well, like so many of us stay during the COVID
quarantine period that we all went through back in twenty twenty,
I found myself uh uh at home looking for things
to do and looking for stuff to watch as we
were not allowed to get outside. And my wife and
(03:13):
I came across the documentary that uh marially pulled us
into this whole thing, and we we watched it. And
I'm not one to viscerally react to these things, but
I found myself really having a tough time getting my
head around what I see. What I saw and still
(03:35):
see as a grave injustice uh to to Dusty Turner.
So I reached out to Dusty. I I took it,
took it upon myself to write an old fashioned letter
to him, and he responded to me, and I realized
in his response, this was a This was a man
(03:57):
that was intelligent, he was articulate. And then I began
to do more and more research and came to know
him better. And I said, okay, now I'm going to
go visit him. And then I went to visit him.
I took a flight. I live in Florida, took a
flight up to Virginia and got to know him personally.
And I said, okay, I'm all in on this thing.
(04:21):
There's more than one victim here in this case. Jennifer Evans.
There's no question that she and her family suffered not
because of Dusty's actions. And so we spent the last
five years with a small group of US as advocates
for Dusty to bring awareness to his case first and foremost,
(04:46):
which is why we're so thankful to be on with
you today, but as importantly to give the port to
Dusty and his family and obviously in the hopes that
we can get him out of one has been a
TORTUREUS thirty years of incarceration. So that's what brings me,
That's what brought me to it. It's the only thing
(05:07):
I'm thankful for in COVID.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Wow, think about that. I mean, just in that travesty
of that that was, which we still don't have answers to, right,
you know that you can find this incredible documentary that's
on Prime. If anybody wants to go watch this, just
type in Dusty Turner Navy Seal and it'll pop up.
(05:29):
I just watched it last night, and when before we
got on, I was sharing with you just you'd ask
me how I was, and you know, it was unsettling.
And even though you know the documentary filmmaker who's from
the community, you know, and put together a really kind
of non biased delivery of all the information. For me,
(05:51):
it was just it was categorically just shown that he
was innocent. Right. Yes, he didn't behave in the way
he should have immediately afterwards, but I thought he painted
an incredible picture of the pressure that he must have
been under in that circumstance. You know, as well as
this the sensation of swim body mentality, and that's a
(06:15):
real thing, and perhaps in a bit, you know, we
can discuss that after after Aaron delivers kind of the
crux of what this is all about. So thank you
for sharing that, Martin Aaron. It's just a pleasure to
meet you. I really am just thank you for doing
what you're doing. I really appreciate it. Could you share
(06:37):
the same thing, like what got you involved in this?
And and you know, why is it such a personal
thing for you?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So in nineteen ninety five, I was twenty years old.
I am a local to the Virginia Beach area, and
I was across the street at a different bar.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I was under age. I was at a underah bar.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
And then the days following I saw that a young
woman was missing and I I saw myself and her
or she she was very much you know, like my
my friends, and the thoughts of that could have been
me or you know, my family, and then the subsequent
(07:29):
media frenzy that followed. I read the newspapers. I mean,
I didn't go to the trial, but it was very
much in uh, everybody's communication.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
If it was at work.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I worked at a hotel, it was discussed there, it
was discussed within my family and friends. It's everything that
consumed us for a very long time. And so I
come from a place where I was I was not
a supporter of Dusty in the beginning because of how
the media portrayed him.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Until two and fourteen fifteen when I watched the documentary,
and this is before it went on the streaming services.
I went to the website and I read about what
Dusty was doing. At that time, I watched the documentary,
and from that point on I felt compelled. I don't
(08:32):
I can't describe, certainly, could be something from above, but
I felt compelled to get involved. It took me some
time to reach out to him because I never considered
my I never considered reaching out to anybody in prison.
(08:53):
It's just something that I couldn't do, but I did it.
I sent him a an email and I just started
the conversation with you don't belong there, you don't belong
in prison. And if there's anything that I can do
to help, I would like to help you. And and
(09:16):
here here we are. It's been six it's been six
years that I can say that I've been his his advocate.
And and and not too long after that, Martin came
along again because he had watched the documentary, and Dusty
kind of put us all together in a team.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And yeah, yeah, that's that, you know, I mean, before
we go down, kind of the evaluation of that divine
interaction of all of you coming together on behalf of
a young man who is languishing uh probably unjustly uh
(10:02):
definitely unjustly with with his incarceration. Can you give the listeners, uh,
as quick as you can a synopsis of the story,
and again, it doesn't have to be in two minutes
at all. Take your time and and and and really explained,
because I think, you know, one of the interesting things
about what you said is when it first went down,
(10:25):
you know, you were, yeah, he's guilty, he he and
Brown should be in there for life. I felt the
same thing. I mean, we were we were told one thing,
and you know, all the way, even through my entire
eight years, and the teams, you know is always yeah,
those you know, those those those jerks, they they smeared
our community, they smeared he they did. They should rot
(10:47):
in prison forever. So you're not the only one. And
I think, you know a good portion of the everybody
that came across this story felt the same thing. So
could you just give us a kind of an overview
of what took place and then what has taken place since?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Oh gosh, So.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
The nine of June eighteenth, nineteen ninety five, two young
Navy sales who were going through their final the Costal
Tactical Training s TT. Right, they went to a local
nightclub and Dusty met a nice young woman and.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
She liked Dusty. Right, they were having a great evening
together and as I remember, as the documentary said, like
things were going great, but unfortunately Brown, who was a
notorious alcoholic and violent guy, uh, somehow ended up in
the car with them. Is it is that correct?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yes? That eventually so.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
He wanted to be alone with Jennifer Evans and spend
timeline and so he found a ride, another ride to
take Billy home because he had been drinking, because he
knew would be obnoxious, he secured a ride home back
to the barracks.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And because at the.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
End of the night, after he found found a ride,
they realized they didn't have enough time to do what
they had planned, which was the walk on the beach,
So they decided to hang out, wait for the friends
that were supposed to return at two o'clock and and
listen to music because they at that point I think
they only had ten minutes before they were.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
To show up.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And and Billy Brown, who was tired of wanting to
wait for his ride, he decided he was going to
try to find Dusty, and he found his way to
the car and he.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Got in and.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
He said a lot of inappropriate things to Jennifer, which
initially she ignored. That once either she he either touched
her shoulder or touched her hair, she swatted his hand away,
and that is when he erupted in violence and in
a what is described as it very.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Martin's probably the better person.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
That describe I would. Yeah, it's hard to talk about. Yeah,
So he was in the back seat of a of
a two door car and it was a small vehicle.
Jennifer was in the passenger's seat, Dusty was in the
driver's seat. They were waiting for her friends to come
pick her up. They were listening to music. Billy came out,
he was inebriated, got in the back seat of the vehicle,
(13:47):
and as Errand just described, he was pretty obnoxious to uh.
And she did what any self respecting woman would do
if you get touched on their or the shoulder. She
slapped his hand. Good on her for doing it. He
was in the back seat and he immediately threw his
forearm around the headrest, around a neck, and he had
(14:09):
all the leverage. He was two hundred and eighteen pounds,
six foot three, he'd just been through seal training. He
was a strong, strong man and instantaneously ended Jennifer's life.
And that was the first domino that fell in the
(14:29):
horrific events to follow. So that was the, you know,
the seminal event that caused all of this to happen.
And he immediately realized what he had done, even though
he was pretty inebriated, and told Dusty to drive and
(14:51):
just get out of that. So that's when they left.
It was the first really fatal mistake in judgment that
was made.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Mh.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But it was what he had been trying to do.
He was like, Okay, I got to support my team, buddy,
Let's get out of here. And they went and hid
Jennifer's body about forty miles away. And then over the
(15:22):
next eight days, Dusty was consumed with as anybody can
imagine with any empathy or conscience, he was consumed with guilt.
Uh uh, but he was. He was in a dilemma.
He was either going to give up his friend for
what he had done.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
And they had They were in budgs together. They had
been rolled back together. They went through every they were
they were die buddies.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
They were.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
They were together at the same team that like they were.
They were simpatico, right, they were.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
They were very very Yeah and you would know this
better than I do day, but you know it's very
unusual when they go through they they start out together.
They were the same heigh at six foot three, so
they were but on the same boat teams. Yeah, they
were swim buddies. Uh. They got rolled back because of
the because of injuries.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
They I think they lashed out two classes later and
then they were putting. They were assigned Seal Team four
and both went to Seal Team four. Uh so they
it probably is not what you normally see, and you
can opine, but but I don't think that's that's standard procedure.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, I mean I got rolled twice in training. I
mean I must have seen. I was in from class
two zero five to zero six, two zero eight to
zero nine. You know, so just hundreds of guys coming
and going, and even the guys that I went through
Hell Week with and eight, you know, I got rolled
into two oh nine. Some of those guys I never
(16:54):
saw again, right, and in their entire careers. So it
just that is for me, one of the really fascinating
aspects of this whole thing. And then the other aspect
I think that really kind of popped for me. And
this was you know, when you do learn their backgrounds.
And Dusty was twenty at the time, right, and Brown
(17:17):
was a little older than he was, right, because he
he had done some college and he had been in
Coast Guard, gotten kicked out of the Coast Guard, and
you know as college.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I don't think he went to college.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Oh he didn't do any college time. Okay, all right,
I thought in the documentary had said that, but so
he you know, you as a younger team guy, I remember,
you know one making it through like Dusty did it
at eighteen years old. I mean that that the eighteen
year olds are usually at their their dropout rate is
(17:48):
in the high nineties because it's just so overwhelming the
mental impact of that program, the maturity that's required, and
the fact that he was able to do that is
pre remarkable. But one of the things that I would see,
in particular when I became an instructor for what STT
became s QT, was you would see the younger guys
(18:09):
look up to some of the more uh, the stronger guys,
or the guys that were you know, when we'd go
out or they'd go out, the tougher guys or the
guys that you know there you just kind of like,
all right, I'm not sure what I need to be
right now in my life, but this guy kind of
represents the mentality that I was just indoctrinated to for
(18:32):
how you know, the year plus they were in buds
together and and it does create an uncommon bond, and
that bond the you know, is much more intense than
anything il I've ever EXPERI even playing D one D
one sport in college, it's nothing is like that bond.
So you know, as you're listening to this, and you
(18:54):
you think, well, if I had just watched you know, someone,
I know, somebody, I would have just pulled the car over,
got out in the car. It's not like that. It's
I mean, you are so conditioned. I mean, in Budgs
you can't even go to the bathroom by yourself. Everything
is driven upon this swim buddy mentality. And so you know,
(19:16):
that's the one thing that I think is critical to
allow yourself to understand. And this young man who had
just achieved a dream, he's in this predicament and he
just watched this you know this you know guy who
he's seen, you know, get in many many fights prior
to kill this woman. I mean, the fear, the confusion,
(19:36):
all of that I think is important to understands as
you think about this. So I'm sorry, Martin. I just
wanted to just give it a little context for people.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's great context, and I think it gets
lost on the average civilian like myself.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Because one more point, can I add you know, you
know when I was you know, I grew up you know,
in Southeast Florida, and you know, I barely I don't
think I ever got in a real fight my whole life.
And you know, you go into this this community, and
the entire thing is a derivative of violence, right, and
(20:19):
really high level violence. And and so you know, you
when you are around other people that have maybe where
however they grew up, they were, they faced it more,
they were part of it more. There's almost this estimation
that you know, it's like, oh, man, if I'm not
violent enough, or if I don't support my buddy in
the bar or something like that, You're almost like, oh,
(20:43):
they're going to find me out, Like you're you're worried
about that ment. At least I was, like I was.
I was worried that I didn't have the background. I
wasn't a true fighter. I didn't grow up on a street.
I wouldn'tn't, you know, I didn't grow up in a
troubled home or anything like that. And and and from
my understanding, you know, Dusty had that life. You know,
(21:04):
he was you know, played sports and accomplished athlete. He
was a boy scout. He was, you know, a good
looking young man. He everybody liked him. He had this
wonderful personality. And so you know, when I hear this
story and I you know, I think of that pressure,
that pressure to lean into that that world of violence
(21:25):
or as as my my therapist so aptly describes it
as the culture death culture. Right, it's just woven into it.
And so that can be very intense if you're not
used to it. You don't come from something. I'm not
saying death is built into everybody's background, but this that intensity, right,
(21:46):
it's the reflection of violence, of society's violence that kind
of sets into many guys who go through the program. So,
all right, I've talked too much.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I'm sorry, go ahead, No, I think it's it's important
to understand, you know, the mentality. I think even in
the documentary, Dusty points out that he's in he's been,
he was in bar fights that he didn't he didn't
even know what he was fighting about. Uh So I
think that sort of exemplifies what you're saying. And he
(22:18):
is if you know the man today, he's not a
man he you know, he's not a man to be
trifled with. But he's not a man that is prone
to violence. That's not as that's not in his DNA.
I don't think, you know, just having come to know
him over these last few years. But so they, you know,
they they went about their business this following week, Dave
(22:40):
and Uh, Actually Dusty had had an accident during training.
I think a gun misfired on him and he had
he was injured. So this is sort of there's some
compounding trauma here on top of the the anguish that
he was going through with what had just happened. And eventually, Uh,
(23:03):
they he decided, based on the instruction of his warrant officer,
to come clean and tell the story about what happened,
and which he did. And you know, he was led
to believe that if he did that everything would be okay,
(23:24):
but it wasn't. And so he told told the story
to the to the authorities, and Billy Brown realized that
Dusty had violated some of this unwritten code of writing
him out, and he then began to tell his own
(23:47):
version of the story, which we subsequently find out in
early two thousand was a manufactured truth to implicate thus team,
but unfortunately it was too late by then. Uh, and
that really is some of the crux of the injustice,
(24:10):
uh that has occurred these many years later. Aaron, I
don't know if you want to add.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
To a little bit about the the initial case and
and that battle that must be gone must have been
going on because you had a prosecutor that was apparently,
you know, the guy went after the big capital murder cases.
And then you had you had two defense attorneys that
(24:37):
were essentially pitted against each other and the prosecution. Can
you describe that dynamic a little.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Bit, Well, you have, uh, the lead prosecutor. There was
two two prosecutors, and one who was trying to make
a name of himself.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
He was known to get all the high profile cases.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And then you have two defense attorneys who Dusty had,
one who was ending his career, who was close to retirement,
and then the other one who also was trying to
make a name for himself. He's subsequently a judge today
in Virgin Beach. A lot of people, a lot of
(25:22):
the characters in this case moved on to bigger and
better things because of this. Everyone got a notch on
their belt, including the prosecutor, who subsequently went on to
the court of a court of appeals and was in
place when Dusty was going through his worot of actual innocence.
(25:43):
He recused himself. But I should back up a little
bit to the original trial and and you know, you
have a case with no evidence. This was one hundred
percent circumstantial case. And so what they have to do
is convince a jury. What can I what can we do?
(26:05):
What can we say to convince a jury? And so
they use Billy Brown's testimony. They use one of his
stories because he told multiple different stories, and so they
use one of them that kind of would fit into
so they could prosecute two of them. And so they
(26:27):
use one of the stories, and that was that they
both they both were involved.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And I think I need to give some kudos to Jdlate.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
The documentary because he has he he has stated that
it does not make sense that two Navy seals, because
the prosecution's case was that they planned this is a
plan thing. They had sex on their mind and this
was all about raping Jennifer Evans and taking her away
(27:00):
and abducting her. So you have two Navy seals that
plan this. They're going to go to a club that
that others would recognize them. They had one of Billy
Brown's ex girlfriend worked there and actually she's the one
that called crimestoters and then uh, Dusty would show his
(27:21):
ID to multiple to the victim and her friends and
then then try to solidify a ride for Billy Brown
who's supposed to be committing this crime with him. So
you're none of it makes make sense. But they were
able to convince the jury that you know, using as
(27:42):
much salacious in a salacious way, and to demonize him
and and and that's that's what happened. They told a story,
they created a theory, and the jury bought it. And
this happen Unfortunately, happens every day. Dusty is not the
only one that's languishing in prison right now. I mean,
(28:05):
this is why we're here today is to talk about Dusty.
But there's so many people like Dusty.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
That's thousands, yeah, thousands, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
And it's so easy to get a conviction.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
And that's what a lot of people don't realize is
that it is so easy to get a conviction. It's
all about how they present it, how much drama they
bring to the courtroom, and that's how they get a conviction.
It's so easy to convict, it's terribly hard to exonerate.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
And that's it's almost like the whole mentality of innocent
until proven guilty in the modern era has just been
flipped right, because whoever is more performative, whoever can put
on the better show, whoever can wow the audience. I mean,
look at the O. J. Simpson case. I mean that's
one of the most prolific ones there is, or Bill
(29:01):
Cosby or whoever. You know, a lot of these high
profile cases. Once you have this massive public attention and
you know, you get the media involved, who are desperate
in terms of views in selling newspapers, and like you said,
the more salacious it can be, the more eyes you get,
is more paper you sell. So what's going to say, Oh, yeah,
(29:23):
we're gonna run with this thing that's part of the story.
There's no proof and just go broke. What were some
of the things that you that really stand out for
you as just just travesties of that initial trial for Dusty?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
There are a few things the so the the Billy's story, uh,
would require somebody to believe that a six to three
man could and the person he was allegedly raping would
(30:00):
fit between the seats. Was it a geostorm, yeah, geostor, yeah, geostorm. Yeah.
The space between the two front the two front seats
is probably about seven or eight inches wide. You, it defies,
it defies imagination how somebody might be able to do that.
(30:20):
But the jury was never able to see the vehicle.
They asked to see the vehicle, and they were never
able to see the vehicle. They created a mock up
of it as you saw in the documentary that didn't
have the shell of the vehicle wasn't actually in the courtroom.
So zeros were couldn't imagine in their mind's eye what
(30:41):
what the confine, how confined that space would be if
they were able to see it, then it would be
uh implausible or very hard to believe the story that
they had been told about Billy. So that's on. There
(31:01):
was there was.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Uh what about blood, body fluids, hairs all that.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
So the body fluid so one of the things that
did occur. This is probably more graphic, perhaps than some
of you listeners might want to hear. But when when
Billy Brown uh committed the act of killing Santa for
(31:31):
Evans de urinated in the front seat. We know that
to be a fact because of testimony subsequent Uh, but
what we don't know is where those front where the
front seat was, So there's no forensic evidence that was
the forensic evidence that would to prove that to have happened.
(31:57):
It was unavailable. Dusty's legal representation of the time chose
to make the decision to use the state's forensic evidence
and not do their own forensic analysis. Clearly, had they
done that, and had they checked the front seat, it
(32:21):
would have cast a much different picture on what happened
and the timing of what happened. So you know that
those are the two things that I mean, there's a
cascading set of things that go beyond that, but those
are two that stand out as being significant. And then,
of course they chose to put Dusty on the stand.
(32:43):
And I think any lawyer would tell you that putting
somebody that's convicted of murder on the stand is never
a good strategy. So you know, I'm not a lawyer,
but you know, I don't think that's something that is
recommended the time. So there's a few things here that just.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Have have either one to talk to Dusty about that
moment when he went on the stand and and what
his state of mind was what whether you know, have
you had any conversation like that like that about with him?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I have not recently.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I know that a lot of it he doesn't remember, uh,
he remembers, you know, the state of how he felt
and how his family was was, you know, what they
were going through. You know, he left a lot of
the decisions you know, to his lawyer, into his family.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
You know, I I don't have.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
A a really good answer of you know what what
was in his mind at that time. I think a
lot of a lot of it is a blur for him.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I can't imagine. Yeah, I just can't even imagine the
pressure of that. Here your whole life is crumbling. And
the other aspect, too, is like you're trying to do
the right thing, right you finally you go to your warrant,
you go to your chain and command. You you confess
that you participated, and you know and and you know
(34:24):
placing the body out in the woods, but you know,
you know it's wrong. It's weighing on you. You know,
you confess and and no matter what you do, it
just gets worse and worse and worse, and and kind
of that spiral that is that can happen in in
the justice system and once once you know the I
(34:47):
guess it's once the narrative. What's the old saying that
a lie can make make it around the world before
anybody knows it's true, right, And I think you know
that's what happened to this young man, and is you know,
just you know, you're also one of the other components
that you know, you go through this training man, you
(35:08):
are programmed, and if you get into a position where
somebody's of authority, like his defense attorney was, and you know,
just the limited you know, they portray him in the
the documentary, it's here's this old guy who's been accomplished
attorney's been practicing law in the area for for decades
(35:28):
and decades, the stellar reputation, and I got it. It's
all right, trust me, I'm going to take care of it.
And his parents are then, you know, telling Dusty known
his fill he's good and he don't work does the
right you know, he's you just go along with it,
just like he went along with the other component. I
mean it, I think it really embodies the confusion that
(35:53):
that he was, you know, that he was faced with
and not knowing how to advocate for himself, not knowing
how to stand up, you know. And I think about
probably a significant portion of that was imbued in this
profound guilt that he had on his heart from from
the whole circumstance.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah, he definitely that whole time period was extremely overwhelming.
He was just going through the motions. You know, his
mom had sensed it, sinced it in phone conversations, and
when they you know, the FBI came, and then you know,
(36:33):
the interview with Virginia Beach Police, and once his warrant
officer asked him to tell him what happened.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
After he'd told his worn officer what.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Happened, he felt an immense relief that he was able.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
To get it off his chest.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
And and you know, his worn officer reached out to
Jag and and Jag came back and said, well, this
is a civilian problem. And so they really yes, they
never had any interaction.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
With not once. No, they didn't offer to provide him
with an attorney or counsel or nothing.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
No, and so no, so he came back to Dusty
and said, this is a civilian matter. Go ahead and
answer these five questions that the police want to tell you. So,
Dusty kind of took this as an order and he
spoke to the police.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
He told them exactly again.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
He retold the story to the police.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I think I think an important point, just to let
me just interject for just a second. Dusty was shocked
that he thought he would need a lawyer at this point,
because he had been led to believe that he just
needed to come clean and it would be okay. So
(38:07):
he was shocked. He said, do you think I need
a lawyer?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah. It was after he agreed to, you know, show
the police and the Warren officer one as well, to
show where Jennifer, where Jennifer was at, and it was
at the end of the day going back to a
p hill and his warrant officer told him, you probably
should get a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Oh my gosh, Well that's not the first time I've
I've heard that before in in the military. Uh, just
about every unit out there as well too. It's just
such a you just think about this, this young man
and granted and again it if if Jennifer's family is listen,
(38:52):
or if you listen to this, my most sincereous condolences.
I have four daughters I don't know what I would
do if this happened to me. I'm so sorry for
your loss. Even to this day, it never goes away.
And I hope you don't believe that any of us
are trying to be inconsiderate. All we're trying to do
is just bring some light to this other young man
(39:14):
who is caught in this situation with somebody that you know, arguably,
at a minimum has sociopathic tendencies at a maximum, could
be quantified as a psychopath. Speaking of this, you know,
can either one of you just talk a little bit
about Brown and who he was and his demeanor throughout
(39:36):
this trial and investigation the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Well, I can offer my two cents. I've never had
any interaction with Brown, so I don't know the man
on a one to one level. All of my opinions
about Brown a based on anecdotal information. But I would say, uh,
(40:05):
you your description of who he is and his uh,
his behavioral tendencies, it certainly resonates, and I think, uh,
probably a guy appropriately characterizes what the man's about.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
What's interesting is is and I found this out later on,
as I, you know, was trying to really kind of
dissect or or try and understand the programming that's that's
evolved over eighty years, right, and you think about the
quality of soldier or sailor that that the special Operations
(40:45):
training produces, and then they're the best in the world,
you know, And I'm you know, I'm more proud of.
You know, there's probably nothing other than you know, my
wife and my children that I'm more proud to be
a part of than than being a Navy c and
going through that training being exposed to it. But I'm
not naive either, and I understand what the intention is
(41:07):
and and and what they're looking for in young men
in particular, and part of the attributes and traits they're
looking for they fit into that kind of let's call
it a sociopathic tendencies if you know, probably not true
fundamental sociopath, but you know, that's who they're looking for.
(41:30):
They're looking for that type of person that can allow
a level of either moral relativism to take control or
most certainly a level of cognitive dissonance that is kind
of integrated into the core psychology of the individual. Right
you have to have it. I mean, I have some friends,
(41:52):
you know that have eight hundred combat missions and you're
not telling me that there aren't. Some of those tendencies
is to be able to go to war that often,
that much and and still be able to keep going
back and to perform at a high level.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So it's it's built in. It's who they're kind of
looking for, is is that individual who can disassociate themselves,
if you will, from from uh uh some to become
somewhat predictive in their ability to engage it at a
high level in violence. Right, there's a reason why one
(42:29):
of our predominant orders is is violence of action. Right.
And then they're they're training us to be in that capacity.
So if you already have are predisposed for it in
some capacity, and then all of a sudden, now you're
trained into it to a whole nother degree. Man, You're
in many cases, you're like a ticking time bomb. Right,
(42:52):
It's just what is the circumstance that's going to hit you,
what time it is, and then what level of reaction
are you going to get it? And I'll never forget,
uh my my CEO one time we were at when
I was at Team one, wonderful guy unbelieve probably one
of the best leaders I've ever had. We were getting
(43:13):
reamed out by our command master chief because a guy
at another team had gone down to Tijuana and gotten
into a big bar fight down there on the streets,
and you know, very kind of typical behavior for for
that era and time in the teams, and and as
we're being lectured, and finally the CEO stepped up and
(43:34):
he said, well, look, all right, gentlemen, here's the deal.
I do understand you can't feed a tiger milk, uh,
but uh, don't get caught, you know, that kind of mentality.
And it was like, all right, that's kind of a
mixed bag, but all right, I hear what you're saying, Roger,
that you know, and and it is this difficult thing
(43:55):
that you're doing, right. You're you're, you're, you're you're imprinting
a level of intensity into young men who are the
most vulnerable age groups ever in history. For that type
of priming. I mean, why do you think young men
are the men who die in wars throughout history? Right?
It's because they're they're easier to lift up, get fired up,
(44:18):
and send them into combat. And that's just the nature
of us as individuals during that timeframe. So for me,
it's it's almost like, all right, you know, after Dusty
begins to repent in his mind and try and get
through this, for the community not to support him fully
at least by providing him with a JAG attorney. Right,
(44:41):
even if the JAG attorney wasn't even he still is
the only one that could be able to articulate that
that concept absolutely in a court of law, because that
I'm sorry, but a seventy year old attorney, no matter
how brilliant they are, cannot surmise that in front of
(45:04):
a jury and give it the credibility that you would
have a JAG officer. Do you guys know where any
of Dusty's senior leadership brought in to give character assessments
of him or any of hismates.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
No, no, his attorney did not call a lot of
character witnesses in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
That's staggering to me. Yeah, all right, let's fast forward
a little bit now, and when was there there? When
did Brown come out and essentially get on the stand
and admit what he had done? What year was that?
Speaker 4 (45:50):
That was in two thousand and eight. That was in
two thousand and eight, But It was in nineteen ninety nine,
two thousand when he told his attorney and mother that
that he lied and that Dusty had nothing to do
with the crime, and his attorney told no one.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
His attorney didn't say a word.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Billy Brown's attorney told nobody. And it wasn't until two
thousand and two. Dusty was out on the reck yard
and a guy who had just transferred there and said, hey,
did you know Billy Brown is telling everybody that that
he lied and that you're innocent? And he was like what,
(46:33):
He goes, yeah, you didn't hear Billy Brown. He's he's
a Christian and he has come out with the full confession.
And so his mother scrambled to get an attorney in
that area, to go get an Affidavid, and it took
six more years to get in court.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
Six more years, six more years, and to get a
writ of actual innocence, which is in Virginia it's sort
of a one and done, one shot deal.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
To rehear your case in front of a panel of
judges and present new and compelling evidence as to why
you're innocent. And so that's what happened. In two thousand
and eight, he had a writ hearing, and it was
(47:37):
the first first time in Virginia history where he was
found to be actually innocent, where someone was found to
be actually innocent without physical evidence. It was based solely
on the confession of Billy Brown on the stand.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
And who was the judge and what was the outcome
of that? Obviously, Dusty's still in cars trated. So what
happened next?
Speaker 4 (48:06):
So when you apply for a rid of actual innocence,
the Court of Appeals puts it on the the the
lower courts, the ones that convicted, it to the circuit
court to do the fact finding. So it was a
Virginia Beach judge. So the same court that convicted him
was a judge that ruled that Dusty that this case
(48:29):
was solely circumstantial, and that he ruled that Billy Brown
was the perpetrator and that Dusty had no role in
the crime itself. And two days after that ruling is
when the Attorney General that's sorry, no, no, I'll take I
(48:50):
got it back up here. The Court of Appeals then
affirmed that court's that court's decision. And once the Court
of Appeals affirmed that decision, the Attorney General spoke up
two days later so at that point he's essentially exonerated.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
He should be going home. But the Attorney genial.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Night that night he should be out of prison.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
Yes, and if you see, if anybody else is going
through the writ process, they go home. But the Attorney
General stepped in and said, now that's not what we
want here. They appealed that decision and said then it
went to the higher court, which is the appellate you
know the appellate courts they call the Court of Appeals
(49:37):
on bank and there was a judge who put forward
a theory which I you know, it's really hard for
us non legal law people to really understand. But didn't
even think it's possible that you can just come up
with a new theory that was never tested against a
jury that you know, essentially Dusty is in prison today.
(50:01):
They have they acknowledged the fact that he hasn't committed
the murder. But because Virginia has a felony murder doctrine,
if you uh, you can be held liable if there's
another if they can prove that another felony occurred, meaning
the abduction, yeap, and that's what why he's being held here.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
That there there was there was no abduction.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
There was no abduction, got in the car willfully with him.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
So they're saying that it is because of deception, that
Dusty deceived her and to get her to come to
the car.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Who is the attorney general that did this? What's his name?
Speaker 4 (50:48):
I can't think it was for his first name. It's
meant now, I would have to look I would have
to look at it.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Martin something, so Martin. As this goes back to the
Attorney general, attorney general goes to the en banc, the
en banc process, the judge comes back with this new
you know sham argument that that he coerced this this
young lady into the into the vehicle. And and have
(51:23):
you talked to Dusty? What was his reaction in that moment?
I mean was did you have you ever have you
ever had that kind of discussion with him where he
opened up about stuff like that for you with you?
Speaker 3 (51:35):
I haven't. I have not had that conversation with him. David.
I'm sure, I'm sure Aaron has. He's the articles. Yeah, well,
certainly when he celebrated when he was filmed actually innocent, right,
but when it was overturned by the way it was
took three more years for it to get overturned by
the Supreme Court three more years, three more years. So
(51:59):
the over it was overtime in two thy and eleven.
And if do I have that right? Aaron was at
twenty ten or eleven?
Speaker 4 (52:09):
Uh. Eight was the eventure evidentiary hearing of nine is
when Court of Appeals affirmed two thousand and.
Speaker 6 (52:19):
Ten.
Speaker 4 (52:20):
Ten ten is when they on bog made their decision,
and then eleven was when the the Supreme Court affirmed.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
The do you have.
Speaker 4 (52:36):
So William Mems was he had a short term in
Virginia at the time. He was filling in for another
who went out for other reasons. And uh, he is
the one that appealed the decision. And then right before
(52:57):
the the court, the Supreme Court of Virginia made their decision,
he was put in a seat there on the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Okay, so he's a current acting.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Not anymore, not anymore. But around the time, around the
time that Dussy was going through this process, he he
he was he was.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
An Attorney general.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
And then while he was while Dusy was going through
this whole process, he was appointed to the Supreme Court
of Virginia.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Do you have the names of those justices that made
that decision.
Speaker 4 (53:36):
Can you get those I could give you, Yeah, I
could get a list of those.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah, region the one that put forward this theory.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Which is I would like all those names, and then
we'll post those on the notes of the show so
people can go and see where this travesty, who's responsible
for this continuing? So I want to I want to
make sure that that's known, and if these people have
moved up into higher office or wherever they're at, I
(54:06):
want them to be accessible to once this starts to
gain some greater steam out there and people get behind Dusty.
So Martin, you you were going to say something, I
cut you off. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Just well, just a little interesting nuance about you know,
the justification for overturning there was one would in the
in the decision, as it was written, that a reasonable
(54:38):
juror could believe that Dusty was trying to deceive Jennifer Evans,
and therefore the deception in and of itself was a felony.
What's interesting, that's a very high bar, right, So you
you could believe is yeah, maybe I could, Maybe I couldn't, right,
(54:59):
That's it's been changed. In fact, I think it changed
in twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen where a reasonable juror
actually would believe, so the bar was raised to a
point where you'd actually have to believe that he was
trying to deceive it. Well, if you look at the
(55:19):
actions that he took that night, where he was showing
his ID, he was open, he was sharing his phone number,
they weren't trying to hide anything. If they were trying
to deceive people, you don't do it by giving you
providing an open book about who you are.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Especially in public setting like a bar in Bobby around
you has some affiliation with the community in some way,
shape or form. Right, the waitresses have dated team guys.
The bar tenders all know every team guy because every
team guy has a favorite bar they go into every
(56:01):
day at every single place, or a Virginia Beach police
officer that was a team guy and knows everybody at
their right or you know, I mean, it's just it's
just asinine. It's asinine. What it sounds like to me
is it sounds like you had the most one of
(56:22):
the most high profile cases in Virginia Beach history and
they got too you know, capital offence, murder, convictions on
these two Navy seals gone rogue, and they prosecuted it.
This fabricated entire case got what they wanted. They all,
as you said, Aaron, they've all benefited from the success
(56:45):
of the case in some capacity and their their ambition, right,
and what it would behoove the State of Virginia, uh,
the Attorney General, whomever is affiliated with these people, because
you have to know, everybody knows each other, right, everybody
knows the das from each county, everybody knows the judges.
(57:09):
The judges all know each other because they all want
to climb the hill and get to that Supreme Court billet. Right,
they all know each other and so to be able to,
you know, get in there and protect this whole thing.
So nobody's made into a mockery of just the the
just blatant disregard for this young man's civic rights. Really,
(57:31):
I think it's a civil rights violation. I mean, that's
that's what I hope ends up coming out. You guys
have a civil rights suit once he gets out of this,
because this is this is an abomination in my in
my opinion for sure. All right, let's just let's pivot
a little bit obviously all of this when when when
(57:55):
the documentary came out, how much attention and did it
get and and you know, how powerful is this for
you guys right now in terms of of awareness and
the name of the documentary for everybody is Navy Seal
Murder framed Target of Opportunity. And you can find that
(58:19):
on Amazon Prime.
Speaker 4 (58:22):
Uh, you know, initially it they had the filmmaker and
some people that were involved, like he was head of Public.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
H I forgot what the name of his title was.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
We're invited public Safety, We're invited to the the opening
of it at a local theater. You know, he's taken
it to a couple I don't even know what you
call them, production companies the pig Yeah, yeah, you know,
(59:03):
for the most part, you know, a lot this is
the thing. A lot of people haven't heard of it.
It's usually they stumble on the documentary randomly, and and
it's it's it's hard, it's hard to find. Honestly. There
are there's a couple other streaming services now that is
showing it, and and that's also it's on peakle.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
I mean, I'm a team guy. This happened during me
I know the story intimately, I didn't even know the
documentary existed until I found you guys went to the
site and then found it. Well yeah, yeah, I didn't
even know it was out there. It's just I couldn't
believe as I'm watching it last night, going how come
I I didn't know? And I, you know, I like
(59:47):
to think I'm pretty aware of the community and what's
going on. I mean, I've interviewed dozens of seals. You know,
my best friend Sean Ryan has the biggest, you know,
one of the biggest podcast in a world. All he
does is interview operate. So I pay attention to the community.
And I've never even seen it or heard about it.
Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Yeah, it really honestly, you know, I feel bad that
it hasn't. I mean, I think Dougley, he did the
the documentary, is happy it's out there.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
It's proof, it's truth that's out there.
Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
And I think that the more people that here, well,
that's that's our hope, is that more people will here
watch it and get involved and demand justice, because that's
that's what we need. We need a movement of people
and and shining more light on this case. And and
(01:00:43):
I it's it's it's time.
Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
It's before before we get there. Can you, guys, just
on an individual level, can you just describe who Dusty
is in your opinion? Can you describe, through the interaction
that you've had with him, through everything, just who you
believe this man is, and just give us, give the
listeners some context. And Martin, would you go first for me?
Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
Yeah? So I've come to know Dusty in five years,
but I feel like I've known him a lifetime because
that's how he makes you feel when you get to
know him. He's a man who is steadfast in what
he believes. I'd like to say I have a buddy
of mine that has a saying. He says he I
(01:01:32):
don't know if he's hard headed, but he's damn sure
convinced of a thing or two. And he's convinced of
his innocence. And I'm convinced of his innocence. I know
Dusty to be a compassionate, caring individual. He speaks to
his mother every day. There's not many guys his age
(01:01:53):
speak to their moms every day. He cares about the
people that he cares about, and he's a mentor to everybody.
I'm also working with somebody here locally but was a
cell mate of his in Bradenton, Florida. The guy was
in and out of prison for twenty five years. He
became a cellmate to Dusty. He was released and he
(01:02:15):
has not been back in prison, and he attributes it
to what he gained from spending time with Dusty. That's
just one example of the impact that he has when
you get to know the individual that he is. And
so the longer I spend in support of who Dusty
(01:02:39):
is and supportive that his circumstance, the more convinced I'm
doing the right thing, not just for him, but for
anybody that comes into contact with him. He's a great
humor being that made a terrible mistake in judgment one evening,
and god knows, I've might a few myself. I wish
(01:03:02):
i'd been. I'm lucky to not have not been in
those circumstances. So Buck, he's uh, he's a guy worth
fighting for, and so we're going to continue to do that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Thank you, Martin. I appreciate that. Aaron.
Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
You know, Dusty I would consider my best friend. He
we went through uh the pandemic together. UH lots of
the family members. He lost his his his father and
his grandmother and I lost my bestest dog that I had. Yeah,
(01:03:42):
and he he has He always seems to say the
right things. The He always seems to have the right
words to say to make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
He has enriched my life. I am you know, anytime
I make, you know, important decisions, he helps me through it.
I am close to his family because of him.
Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
The people around him on the inside, Uh, the correctional
officers and other inmates all respect him.
Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
I think that's something that's really important for people to understand.
In a place that is full of criminals, Dusty sticks out,
but he's respected by everybody in there. And I think,
you know, partly maybe it's because they know he doesn't belong.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
But he he's not showy.
Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
He cares about people that he shares a cell with,
and he cares about.
Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
The people around him, and.
Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
He diffuses a lot of the angst inside.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Currently.
Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
He is a peer mentor and he I mean I
was talking to on the phone just last week and
and there was something was happening. I could hear it,
and it was a correctional officer that was getting a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Probably was saying too much.
Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
And Dusty actually diffused that situation so that the the
CEO was able to calm down, and so was the
the inmate. He is a I just wish that you
know people who you know maybe a little bit on
uh one one side, I really wish that everybody could
(01:05:51):
get a piece and uh to know who he really is.
Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
It's really really.
Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Hard to put it in words to describe he's a
man of of.
Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Uh uh.
Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
He he is very kind. I get a hand written
or a card every birthday, every Mother's Day, and he
does that for his family.
Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
He cares and I, you know, I wish I could
say more.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
No, I think, in the infamous words of Tim McGraw,
he's the kind of friend a friend would want to have.
Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Yeah, he seems like that. Just the the sentiment in
both of your your voices and the way you describe
it as as nothing short of of impactful to say
the least. But it's almost miraculous how he's who he
is has gotten into both of you enough to wanna
(01:07:01):
to take a significant portion out of your own lives
in order to help him restore his in some context
or capacity. Hopefully is freedom here. So what what can
people do? What? What how can uh my listeners get
out there and what can they do to support Dusty
in this quest?
Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
And you guys well certainly follow follow us on a
social media We're on x We're on Instagram and on TikTok.
We have a petition out there on change dot org.
You can get to it by going to the website
which is free Dusty dot com. And we also have
(01:07:42):
links on all of the social media's social social media
channels as well. And what are the handles for those
it is, uh, Navy Seal left behind or at free Dusty.
Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Turner, Okay, Navy Seal left behind or at free Dusty
Turner or just free Dusty.
Speaker 6 (01:08:01):
At free Dusty Turner Okay, where and then uh if
they and the the petition is on the website free
Dusty dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Correct, yes, correct, Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
It links it links to it's a change dot or
kind of links directly to it.
Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
And I definitely want to put out there. Please do
not get and Dusty is very concerned about this. Please
do not get caught in the trap and donating money
through through them. Uh it does not go to Dusty's
cause at all. And we probably should set something up
(01:08:40):
for for Dusty.
Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
And absolutely, you guys should definitely set up a give
Send Go fund for sure, stay away from whatever. The
other one was that they don't pay out if they
don't believe in your your politics. U. Yeah, yeah, so
give send Go I found for for like, this is
a little bit better, but you know, definitely investigate those. Yeah,
(01:09:04):
get that up as soon as possible and and you know,
probably get that up, you know, before this thing airs
for sure, so we can we can drive people to
support the legal funds because the legal funds are are
are just astronomical. I can't even imagine so far what
is his his poor family has had to spend on
on his legal defenses. I have several friends that you know,
(01:09:28):
it's broken them because of whether it was child custody,
uh stuff which always seems to go the wrong way
for team guys, it seems. But in other you know,
criminal cases too, and you know, uh, And that's why
I'm gonna definitely reach out to Eddie Gallagher and in
his he's got a nonprofit called the Pipe Hitters Foundation,
(01:09:52):
and yeah, so I'm gonna reach I'm gonna call Eddie
as soon as we get off the call. Here we've
been talking already. I'm trying to get him on the show,
but I'll reach out to them and and we'll just
draw more attention to this.
Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
And I think, David, sorry to cut short, just just
just a quick follow up. We just need it. We
need people laser focused on his case. We need people
that care about justice to listen to Dusty's story, and
(01:10:26):
then we need them to help join a movement to
draw attention to it. Uh So it's the petition certainly
is one one avenue, but we need people to be
familiar with it. We want people convicted about how they
feel about his case to come forward and support support
what needs to be done here.
Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Absolutely absolutely, well, thank you both. Obviously you know Dusty
I bet is overwhelmed by your support. I certainly I am.
You know what you what you've done here is uh
(01:11:06):
and what you're doing is remarkable. I commend both of you.
It's it's honorable, and I just hope we can generate
enough of that, like you said, that tipping point of
of support, and we can have some justice filled for
for Dusty here soon. So thank you all so much
(01:11:27):
for coming on uh and and I look forward to
the next opportunity that we can have the next talk.
So God bless you guys, Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:11:37):
One other thing if I can, absolutely, So, currently Dusty
is up for parole and his only out is either
through clemency or parole or getting back into court if
we have new evidence.
Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
And so what about can you get a clemency? Is
his pardon? It's essentially a pardon, and you know that.
Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Can be the President of the United States or the governor.
Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
No, so it's not a federal case like said, it's
only it's a Commonwealth.
Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Of Virginia case. So only the governor can pardon.
Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
So if we have once we have an active petition
for a pardon or clemency, and the key is going
to be the governor of Virginia, which is Glenn Youngkin.
So anybody has connections with Glenn Youngkin?
Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Did you hear that? Everybody? If you know somebody or
you know somebody in Glenn Younkin's atmosphere or somebody that
can get to him, don't hesitate. Immediately get in contact,
drive them to first to free Dusty dot com, or
if you want, send him the documentary. That's always a
(01:12:47):
compelling thing because I think the way JD laid out
all that evidence is really that was the thing for me,
that was just pushed me over the edge for sure.
So all right, is any thing else? Aaron Martin, No,
thank you, We appreciate it. You're welcome. God bless you
guys and your efforts, and God bless Dusty if you
(01:13:09):
talk to him for us. Thank you, to you, thank you.
In nineteen ninety five, I entered basic underwater demolition Seal
training and in the midst of going through training, there
was a case that came out of Little Creek, Virginia,
and it was the case of two young seal recruits
that had made it over to the teams who had
gotten arrested for the murder of a young girl, a
(00:24):
young college student vacationing. And I remember the impact that
this had on our experience. I remember sitting in second
phase and having our senior chief came in and began
to give us an ethics class, and it was one
of the most impactful things I had ever heard. And
(00:47):
it was perplexing at the time that how two young
boys who had just gone through the most difficult, arduous
thing that you could go through would have a lapse
of reasoning where they would kill somebody out of a
fit of rage or some sexual desire. And I just
(01:08):
couldn't wrap my mind around it. Well, since that time,
this case has gotten a lot of attention back then,
but it's died off, and as a result, so too
has the hopes of Dusty Turner, a young man that
has been incarcerated for this crime for over twenty plus
(01:32):
years and just the other day, I was on my
Instagram feed and I saw this free Dusty campaign that
came across and after the second time I saw it,
I clicked on it and I began to read the
free Dusty dot com website and the fact that this
(01:54):
young man is still just grown man, is still incarcerated
to this date. So what I wanted to do today
is I wanted to bring the people who are responsible
for this movement to bring awareness to it, to bring
awareness to you so that hopefully, in some way, shape
or form, you can participate in bringing some justice to
(02:16):
a young man that's already served his time. So, without
further ado, I'd like to introduce you to Martin Jens
and Aaron Lottman. So thank you both so much for
coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Thank you, Thank you, Dave.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
It's good to be with you.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Martin, I'll start with you, how did you get involved
with this, what were the circumstances and why now are
you investing so much of your time and trying to
bring justice to Dusty.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Well, like so many of us stay during the COVID
quarantine period that we all went through back in twenty twenty,
I found myself uh uh at home looking for things
to do and looking for stuff to watch as we
were not allowed to get outside. And my wife and
(03:13):
I came across the documentary that uh marially pulled us
into this whole thing, and we we watched it. And
I'm not one to viscerally react to these things, but
I found myself really having a tough time getting my
head around what I see. What I saw and still
(03:35):
see as a grave injustice uh to to Dusty Turner.
So I reached out to Dusty. I I took it,
took it upon myself to write an old fashioned letter
to him, and he responded to me, and I realized
in his response, this was a This was a man
(03:57):
that was intelligent, he was articulate. And then I began
to do more and more research and came to know
him better. And I said, okay, now I'm going to
go visit him. And then I went to visit him.
I took a flight. I live in Florida, took a
flight up to Virginia and got to know him personally.
And I said, okay, I'm all in on this thing.
(04:21):
There's more than one victim here in this case. Jennifer Evans.
There's no question that she and her family suffered not
because of Dusty's actions. And so we spent the last
five years with a small group of US as advocates
for Dusty to bring awareness to his case first and foremost,
(04:46):
which is why we're so thankful to be on with
you today, but as importantly to give the port to
Dusty and his family and obviously in the hopes that
we can get him out of one has been a
TORTUREUS thirty years of incarceration. So that's what brings me,
That's what brought me to it. It's the only thing
(05:07):
I'm thankful for in COVID.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Wow, think about that. I mean, just in that travesty
of that that was, which we still don't have answers to, right,
you know that you can find this incredible documentary that's
on Prime. If anybody wants to go watch this, just
type in Dusty Turner Navy Seal and it'll pop up.
(05:29):
I just watched it last night, and when before we
got on, I was sharing with you just you'd ask
me how I was, and you know, it was unsettling.
And even though you know the documentary filmmaker who's from
the community, you know, and put together a really kind
of non biased delivery of all the information. For me,
(05:51):
it was just it was categorically just shown that he
was innocent. Right. Yes, he didn't behave in the way
he should have immediately afterwards, but I thought he painted
an incredible picture of the pressure that he must have
been under in that circumstance. You know, as well as
this the sensation of swim body mentality, and that's a
(06:15):
real thing, and perhaps in a bit, you know, we
can discuss that after after Aaron delivers kind of the
crux of what this is all about. So thank you
for sharing that, Martin Aaron. It's just a pleasure to
meet you. I really am just thank you for doing
what you're doing. I really appreciate it. Could you share
(06:37):
the same thing, like what got you involved in this?
And and you know, why is it such a personal
thing for you?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So in nineteen ninety five, I was twenty years old.
I am a local to the Virginia Beach area, and
I was across the street at a different bar.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I was under age. I was at a underah bar.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
And then the days following I saw that a young
woman was missing and I I saw myself and her
or she she was very much you know, like my
my friends, and the thoughts of that could have been
me or you know, my family, and then the subsequent
(07:29):
media frenzy that followed. I read the newspapers. I mean,
I didn't go to the trial, but it was very
much in uh, everybody's communication.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
If it was at work.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I worked at a hotel, it was discussed there, it
was discussed within my family and friends. It's everything that
consumed us for a very long time. And so I
come from a place where I was I was not
a supporter of Dusty in the beginning because of how
the media portrayed him.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Until two and fourteen fifteen when I watched the documentary,
and this is before it went on the streaming services.
I went to the website and I read about what
Dusty was doing. At that time, I watched the documentary,
and from that point on I felt compelled. I don't
(08:32):
I can't describe, certainly, could be something from above, but
I felt compelled to get involved. It took me some
time to reach out to him because I never considered
my I never considered reaching out to anybody in prison.
(08:53):
It's just something that I couldn't do, but I did it.
I sent him a an email and I just started
the conversation with you don't belong there, you don't belong
in prison. And if there's anything that I can do
to help, I would like to help you. And and
(09:16):
here here we are. It's been six it's been six
years that I can say that I've been his his advocate.
And and and not too long after that, Martin came
along again because he had watched the documentary, and Dusty
kind of put us all together in a team.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And yeah, yeah, that's that, you know, I mean, before
we go down, kind of the evaluation of that divine
interaction of all of you coming together on behalf of
a young man who is languishing uh probably unjustly uh
(10:02):
definitely unjustly with with his incarceration. Can you give the listeners, uh,
as quick as you can a synopsis of the story,
and again, it doesn't have to be in two minutes
at all. Take your time and and and and really explained,
because I think, you know, one of the interesting things
about what you said is when it first went down,
(10:25):
you know, you were, yeah, he's guilty, he he and
Brown should be in there for life. I felt the
same thing. I mean, we were we were told one thing,
and you know, all the way, even through my entire
eight years, and the teams, you know is always yeah,
those you know, those those those jerks, they they smeared
our community, they smeared he they did. They should rot
(10:47):
in prison forever. So you're not the only one. And
I think, you know a good portion of the everybody
that came across this story felt the same thing. So
could you just give us a kind of an overview
of what took place and then what has taken place since?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Oh gosh, So.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
The nine of June eighteenth, nineteen ninety five, two young
Navy sales who were going through their final the Costal
Tactical Training s TT. Right, they went to a local
nightclub and Dusty met a nice young woman and.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
She liked Dusty. Right, they were having a great evening
together and as I remember, as the documentary said, like
things were going great, but unfortunately Brown, who was a
notorious alcoholic and violent guy, uh, somehow ended up in
the car with them. Is it is that correct?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yes? That eventually so.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
He wanted to be alone with Jennifer Evans and spend
timeline and so he found a ride, another ride to
take Billy home because he had been drinking, because he
knew would be obnoxious, he secured a ride home back
to the barracks.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And because at the.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
End of the night, after he found found a ride,
they realized they didn't have enough time to do what
they had planned, which was the walk on the beach,
So they decided to hang out, wait for the friends
that were supposed to return at two o'clock and and
listen to music because they at that point I think
they only had ten minutes before they were.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
To show up.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And and Billy Brown, who was tired of wanting to
wait for his ride, he decided he was going to
try to find Dusty, and he found his way to
the car and he.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Got in and.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
He said a lot of inappropriate things to Jennifer, which
initially she ignored. That once either she he either touched
her shoulder or touched her hair, she swatted his hand away,
and that is when he erupted in violence and in
a what is described as it very.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Martin's probably the better person.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
That describe I would. Yeah, it's hard to talk about. Yeah,
So he was in the back seat of a of
a two door car and it was a small vehicle.
Jennifer was in the passenger's seat, Dusty was in the
driver's seat. They were waiting for her friends to come
pick her up. They were listening to music. Billy came out,
he was inebriated, got in the back seat of the vehicle,
(13:47):
and as Errand just described, he was pretty obnoxious to uh.
And she did what any self respecting woman would do
if you get touched on their or the shoulder. She
slapped his hand. Good on her for doing it. He
was in the back seat and he immediately threw his
forearm around the headrest, around a neck, and he had
(14:09):
all the leverage. He was two hundred and eighteen pounds,
six foot three, he'd just been through seal training. He
was a strong, strong man and instantaneously ended Jennifer's life.
And that was the first domino that fell in the
(14:29):
horrific events to follow. So that was the, you know,
the seminal event that caused all of this to happen.
And he immediately realized what he had done, even though
he was pretty inebriated, and told Dusty to drive and
(14:51):
just get out of that. So that's when they left.
It was the first really fatal mistake in judgment that
was made.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Mh.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
But it was what he had been trying to do.
He was like, Okay, I got to support my team, buddy,
Let's get out of here. And they went and hid
Jennifer's body about forty miles away. And then over the
(15:22):
next eight days, Dusty was consumed with as anybody can
imagine with any empathy or conscience, he was consumed with guilt.
Uh uh, but he was. He was in a dilemma.
He was either going to give up his friend for
what he had done.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
And they had They were in budgs together. They had
been rolled back together. They went through every they were
they were die buddies.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
They were.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
They were together at the same team that like they were.
They were simpatico, right, they were.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
They were very very Yeah and you would know this
better than I do day, but you know it's very
unusual when they go through they they start out together.
They were the same heigh at six foot three, so
they were but on the same boat teams. Yeah, they
were swim buddies. Uh. They got rolled back because of
the because of injuries.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
They I think they lashed out two classes later and
then they were putting. They were assigned Seal Team four
and both went to Seal Team four. Uh so they
it probably is not what you normally see, and you
can opine, but but I don't think that's that's standard procedure.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, I mean I got rolled twice in training. I
mean I must have seen. I was in from class
two zero five to zero six, two zero eight to
zero nine. You know, so just hundreds of guys coming
and going, and even the guys that I went through
Hell Week with and eight, you know, I got rolled
into two oh nine. Some of those guys I never
(16:54):
saw again, right, and in their entire careers. So it
just that is for me, one of the really fascinating
aspects of this whole thing. And then the other aspect
I think that really kind of popped for me. And
this was you know, when you do learn their backgrounds.
And Dusty was twenty at the time, right, and Brown
(17:17):
was a little older than he was, right, because he
he had done some college and he had been in
Coast Guard, gotten kicked out of the Coast Guard, and
you know as college.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I don't think he went to college.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Oh he didn't do any college time. Okay, all right,
I thought in the documentary had said that, but so
he you know, you as a younger team guy, I remember,
you know one making it through like Dusty did it
at eighteen years old. I mean that that the eighteen
year olds are usually at their their dropout rate is
(17:48):
in the high nineties because it's just so overwhelming the
mental impact of that program, the maturity that's required, and
the fact that he was able to do that is
pre remarkable. But one of the things that I would see,
in particular when I became an instructor for what STT
became s QT, was you would see the younger guys
(18:09):
look up to some of the more uh, the stronger guys,
or the guys that were you know, when we'd go
out or they'd go out, the tougher guys or the
guys that you know there you just kind of like,
all right, I'm not sure what I need to be
right now in my life, but this guy kind of
represents the mentality that I was just indoctrinated to for
(18:32):
how you know, the year plus they were in buds
together and and it does create an uncommon bond, and
that bond the you know, is much more intense than
anything il I've ever EXPERI even playing D one D
one sport in college, it's nothing is like that bond.
So you know, as you're listening to this, and you
(18:54):
you think, well, if I had just watched you know, someone,
I know, somebody, I would have just pulled the car over,
got out in the car. It's not like that. It's
I mean, you are so conditioned. I mean, in Budgs
you can't even go to the bathroom by yourself. Everything
is driven upon this swim buddy mentality. And so you know,
(19:16):
that's the one thing that I think is critical to
allow yourself to understand. And this young man who had
just achieved a dream, he's in this predicament and he
just watched this you know this you know guy who
he's seen, you know, get in many many fights prior
to kill this woman. I mean, the fear, the confusion,
(19:36):
all of that I think is important to understands as
you think about this. So I'm sorry, Martin. I just
wanted to just give it a little context for people.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's great context, and I think it gets
lost on the average civilian like myself.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Because one more point, can I add you know, you
know when I was you know, I grew up you know,
in Southeast Florida, and you know, I barely I don't
think I ever got in a real fight my whole life.
And you know, you go into this this community, and
the entire thing is a derivative of violence, right, and
(20:19):
really high level violence. And and so you know, you
when you are around other people that have maybe where
however they grew up, they were, they faced it more,
they were part of it more. There's almost this estimation
that you know, it's like, oh, man, if I'm not
violent enough, or if I don't support my buddy in
the bar or something like that, You're almost like, oh,
(20:43):
they're going to find me out, Like you're you're worried
about that ment. At least I was, like I was.
I was worried that I didn't have the background. I
wasn't a true fighter. I didn't grow up on a street.
I wouldn'tn't, you know, I didn't grow up in a
troubled home or anything like that. And and and from
my understanding, you know, Dusty had that life. You know,
(21:04):
he was you know, played sports and accomplished athlete. He
was a boy scout. He was, you know, a good
looking young man. He everybody liked him. He had this
wonderful personality. And so you know, when I hear this
story and I you know, I think of that pressure,
that pressure to lean into that that world of violence
(21:25):
or as as my my therapist so aptly describes it
as the culture death culture. Right, it's just woven into it.
And so that can be very intense if you're not
used to it. You don't come from something. I'm not
saying death is built into everybody's background, but this that intensity, right,
(21:46):
it's the reflection of violence, of society's violence that kind
of sets into many guys who go through the program. So,
all right, I've talked too much.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I'm sorry, go ahead, No, I think it's it's important
to understand, you know, the mentality. I think even in
the documentary, Dusty points out that he's in he's been,
he was in bar fights that he didn't he didn't
even know what he was fighting about. Uh So I
think that sort of exemplifies what you're saying. And he
(22:18):
is if you know the man today, he's not a
man he you know, he's not a man to be
trifled with. But he's not a man that is prone
to violence. That's not as that's not in his DNA.
I don't think, you know, just having come to know
him over these last few years. But so they, you know,
they they went about their business this following week, Dave
(22:40):
and Uh, Actually Dusty had had an accident during training.
I think a gun misfired on him and he had
he was injured. So this is sort of there's some
compounding trauma here on top of the the anguish that
he was going through with what had just happened. And eventually, Uh,
(23:03):
they he decided, based on the instruction of his warrant officer,
to come clean and tell the story about what happened,
and which he did. And you know, he was led
to believe that if he did that everything would be okay,
(23:24):
but it wasn't. And so he told told the story
to the to the authorities, and Billy Brown realized that
Dusty had violated some of this unwritten code of writing
him out, and he then began to tell his own
(23:47):
version of the story, which we subsequently find out in
early two thousand was a manufactured truth to implicate thus team,
but unfortunately it was too late by then. Uh, and
that really is some of the crux of the injustice,
(24:10):
uh that has occurred these many years later. Aaron, I
don't know if you want to add.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
To a little bit about the the initial case and
and that battle that must be gone must have been
going on because you had a prosecutor that was apparently,
you know, the guy went after the big capital murder cases.
And then you had you had two defense attorneys that
(24:37):
were essentially pitted against each other and the prosecution. Can
you describe that dynamic a little.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Bit, Well, you have, uh, the lead prosecutor. There was
two two prosecutors, and one who was trying to make
a name of himself.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
He was known to get all the high profile cases.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And then you have two defense attorneys who Dusty had,
one who was ending his career, who was close to retirement,
and then the other one who also was trying to
make a name for himself. He's subsequently a judge today
in Virgin Beach. A lot of people, a lot of
(25:22):
the characters in this case moved on to bigger and
better things because of this. Everyone got a notch on
their belt, including the prosecutor, who subsequently went on to
the court of a court of appeals and was in
place when Dusty was going through his worot of actual innocence.
(25:43):
He recused himself. But I should back up a little
bit to the original trial and and you know, you
have a case with no evidence. This was one hundred
percent circumstantial case. And so what they have to do
is convince a jury. What can I what can we do?
(26:05):
What can we say to convince a jury? And so
they use Billy Brown's testimony. They use one of his
stories because he told multiple different stories, and so they
use one of them that kind of would fit into
so they could prosecute two of them. And so they
(26:27):
use one of the stories, and that was that they
both they both were involved.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And I think I need to give some kudos to Jdlate.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
The documentary because he has he he has stated that
it does not make sense that two Navy seals, because
the prosecution's case was that they planned this is a
plan thing. They had sex on their mind and this
was all about raping Jennifer Evans and taking her away
(27:00):
and abducting her. So you have two Navy seals that
plan this. They're going to go to a club that
that others would recognize them. They had one of Billy
Brown's ex girlfriend worked there and actually she's the one
that called crimestoters and then uh, Dusty would show his
(27:21):
ID to multiple to the victim and her friends and
then then try to solidify a ride for Billy Brown
who's supposed to be committing this crime with him. So
you're none of it makes make sense. But they were
able to convince the jury that you know, using as
(27:42):
much salacious in a salacious way, and to demonize him
and and and that's that's what happened. They told a story,
they created a theory, and the jury bought it. And
this happen Unfortunately, happens every day. Dusty is not the
only one that's languishing in prison right now. I mean,
(28:05):
this is why we're here today is to talk about Dusty.
But there's so many people like Dusty.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
That's thousands, yeah, thousands, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
And it's so easy to get a conviction.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
And that's what a lot of people don't realize is
that it is so easy to get a conviction. It's
all about how they present it, how much drama they
bring to the courtroom, and that's how they get a conviction.
It's so easy to convict, it's terribly hard to exonerate.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
And that's it's almost like the whole mentality of innocent
until proven guilty in the modern era has just been
flipped right, because whoever is more performative, whoever can put
on the better show, whoever can wow the audience. I mean,
look at the O. J. Simpson case. I mean that's
one of the most prolific ones there is, or Bill
(29:01):
Cosby or whoever. You know, a lot of these high
profile cases. Once you have this massive public attention and
you know, you get the media involved, who are desperate
in terms of views in selling newspapers, and like you said,
the more salacious it can be, the more eyes you get,
is more paper you sell. So what's going to say, Oh, yeah,
(29:23):
we're gonna run with this thing that's part of the story.
There's no proof and just go broke. What were some
of the things that you that really stand out for
you as just just travesties of that initial trial for Dusty?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
There are a few things the so the the Billy's story, uh,
would require somebody to believe that a six to three
man could and the person he was allegedly raping would
(30:00):
fit between the seats. Was it a geostorm, yeah, geostor, yeah, geostorm. Yeah.
The space between the two front the two front seats
is probably about seven or eight inches wide. You, it defies,
it defies imagination how somebody might be able to do that.
(30:20):
But the jury was never able to see the vehicle.
They asked to see the vehicle, and they were never
able to see the vehicle. They created a mock up
of it as you saw in the documentary that didn't
have the shell of the vehicle wasn't actually in the courtroom.
So zeros were couldn't imagine in their mind's eye what
(30:41):
what the confine, how confined that space would be if
they were able to see it, then it would be
uh implausible or very hard to believe the story that
they had been told about Billy. So that's on. There
(31:01):
was there was.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Uh what about blood, body fluids, hairs all that.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
So the body fluid so one of the things that
did occur. This is probably more graphic, perhaps than some
of you listeners might want to hear. But when when
Billy Brown uh committed the act of killing Santa for
(31:31):
Evans de urinated in the front seat. We know that
to be a fact because of testimony subsequent Uh, but
what we don't know is where those front where the
front seat was, So there's no forensic evidence that was
the forensic evidence that would to prove that to have happened.
(31:57):
It was unavailable. Dusty's legal representation of the time chose
to make the decision to use the state's forensic evidence
and not do their own forensic analysis. Clearly, had they
done that, and had they checked the front seat, it
(32:21):
would have cast a much different picture on what happened
and the timing of what happened. So you know that
those are the two things that I mean, there's a
cascading set of things that go beyond that, but those
are two that stand out as being significant. And then,
of course they chose to put Dusty on the stand.
(32:43):
And I think any lawyer would tell you that putting
somebody that's convicted of murder on the stand is never
a good strategy. So you know, I'm not a lawyer,
but you know, I don't think that's something that is
recommended the time. So there's a few things here that just.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Have have either one to talk to Dusty about that
moment when he went on the stand and and what
his state of mind was what whether you know, have
you had any conversation like that like that about with him?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I have not recently.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I know that a lot of it he doesn't remember, uh,
he remembers, you know, the state of how he felt
and how his family was was, you know, what they
were going through. You know, he left a lot of
the decisions you know, to his lawyer, into his family.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
You know, I I don't have.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
A a really good answer of you know what what
was in his mind at that time. I think a
lot of a lot of it is a blur for him.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I can't imagine. Yeah, I just can't even imagine the
pressure of that. Here your whole life is crumbling. And
the other aspect, too, is like you're trying to do
the right thing, right you finally you go to your warrant,
you go to your chain and command. You you confess
that you participated, and you know and and you know
(34:24):
placing the body out in the woods, but you know,
you know it's wrong. It's weighing on you. You know,
you confess and and no matter what you do, it
just gets worse and worse and worse, and and kind
of that spiral that is that can happen in in
the justice system and once once you know the I
(34:47):
guess it's once the narrative. What's the old saying that
a lie can make make it around the world before
anybody knows it's true, right, And I think you know
that's what happened to this young man, and is you know,
just you know, you're also one of the other components
that you know, you go through this training man, you
(35:08):
are programmed, and if you get into a position where
somebody's of authority, like his defense attorney was, and you know,
just the limited you know, they portray him in the
the documentary, it's here's this old guy who's been accomplished
attorney's been practicing law in the area for for decades
(35:28):
and decades, the stellar reputation, and I got it. It's
all right, trust me, I'm going to take care of it.
And his parents are then, you know, telling Dusty known
his fill he's good and he don't work does the
right you know, he's you just go along with it,
just like he went along with the other component. I
mean it, I think it really embodies the confusion that
(35:53):
that he was, you know, that he was faced with
and not knowing how to advocate for himself, not knowing
how to stand up, you know. And I think about
probably a significant portion of that was imbued in this
profound guilt that he had on his heart from from
the whole circumstance.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah, he definitely that whole time period was extremely overwhelming.
He was just going through the motions. You know, his
mom had sensed it, sinced it in phone conversations, and
when they you know, the FBI came, and then you know,
(36:33):
the interview with Virginia Beach Police, and once his warrant
officer asked him to tell him what happened.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
After he'd told his worn officer what.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Happened, he felt an immense relief that he was able.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
To get it off his chest.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
And and you know, his worn officer reached out to
Jag and and Jag came back and said, well, this
is a civilian problem. And so they really yes, they
never had any interaction.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
With not once. No, they didn't offer to provide him
with an attorney or counsel or nothing.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
No, and so no, so he came back to Dusty
and said, this is a civilian matter. Go ahead and
answer these five questions that the police want to tell you. So,
Dusty kind of took this as an order and he
spoke to the police.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
He told them exactly again.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
He retold the story to the police.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I think I think an important point, just to let
me just interject for just a second. Dusty was shocked
that he thought he would need a lawyer at this point,
because he had been led to believe that he just
needed to come clean and it would be okay. So
(38:07):
he was shocked. He said, do you think I need
a lawyer?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah. It was after he agreed to, you know, show
the police and the Warren officer one as well, to
show where Jennifer, where Jennifer was at, and it was
at the end of the day going back to a
p hill and his warrant officer told him, you probably
should get a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Oh my gosh, Well that's not the first time I've
I've heard that before in in the military. Uh, just
about every unit out there as well too. It's just
such a you just think about this, this young man
and granted and again it if if Jennifer's family is listen,
(38:52):
or if you listen to this, my most sincereous condolences.
I have four daughters I don't know what I would
do if this happened to me. I'm so sorry for
your loss. Even to this day, it never goes away.
And I hope you don't believe that any of us
are trying to be inconsiderate. All we're trying to do
is just bring some light to this other young man
(39:14):
who is caught in this situation with somebody that you know, arguably,
at a minimum has sociopathic tendencies at a maximum, could
be quantified as a psychopath. Speaking of this, you know,
can either one of you just talk a little bit
about Brown and who he was and his demeanor throughout
(39:36):
this trial and investigation the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Well, I can offer my two cents. I've never had
any interaction with Brown, so I don't know the man
on a one to one level. All of my opinions
about Brown a based on anecdotal information. But I would say, uh,
(40:05):
you your description of who he is and his uh,
his behavioral tendencies, it certainly resonates, and I think, uh,
probably a guy appropriately characterizes what the man's about.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
What's interesting is is and I found this out later on,
as I, you know, was trying to really kind of
dissect or or try and understand the programming that's that's
evolved over eighty years, right, and you think about the
quality of soldier or sailor that that the special Operations
(40:45):
training produces, and then they're the best in the world,
you know, And I'm you know, I'm more proud of.
You know, there's probably nothing other than you know, my
wife and my children that I'm more proud to be
a part of than than being a Navy c and
going through that training being exposed to it. But I'm
not naive either, and I understand what the intention is
(41:07):
and and and what they're looking for in young men
in particular, and part of the attributes and traits they're
looking for they fit into that kind of let's call
it a sociopathic tendencies if you know, probably not true
fundamental sociopath, but you know, that's who they're looking for.
(41:30):
They're looking for that type of person that can allow
a level of either moral relativism to take control or
most certainly a level of cognitive dissonance that is kind
of integrated into the core psychology of the individual. Right
you have to have it. I mean, I have some friends,
(41:52):
you know that have eight hundred combat missions and you're
not telling me that there aren't. Some of those tendencies
is to be able to go to war that often,
that much and and still be able to keep going
back and to perform at a high level.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So it's it's built in. It's who they're kind of
looking for, is is that individual who can disassociate themselves,
if you will, from from uh uh some to become
somewhat predictive in their ability to engage it at a
high level in violence. Right, there's a reason why one
(42:29):
of our predominant orders is is violence of action. Right.
And then they're they're training us to be in that capacity.
So if you already have are predisposed for it in
some capacity, and then all of a sudden, now you're
trained into it to a whole nother degree. Man, You're
in many cases, you're like a ticking time bomb. Right,
(42:52):
It's just what is the circumstance that's going to hit you,
what time it is, and then what level of reaction
are you going to get it? And I'll never forget,
uh my my CEO one time we were at when
I was at Team one, wonderful guy unbelieve probably one
of the best leaders I've ever had. We were getting
(43:13):
reamed out by our command master chief because a guy
at another team had gone down to Tijuana and gotten
into a big bar fight down there on the streets,
and you know, very kind of typical behavior for for
that era and time in the teams, and and as
we're being lectured, and finally the CEO stepped up and
(43:34):
he said, well, look, all right, gentlemen, here's the deal.
I do understand you can't feed a tiger milk, uh,
but uh, don't get caught, you know, that kind of mentality.
And it was like, all right, that's kind of a
mixed bag, but all right, I hear what you're saying, Roger,
that you know, and and it is this difficult thing
(43:55):
that you're doing, right. You're you're, you're, you're you're imprinting
a level of intensity into young men who are the
most vulnerable age groups ever in history. For that type
of priming. I mean, why do you think young men
are the men who die in wars throughout history? Right?
It's because they're they're easier to lift up, get fired up,
(44:18):
and send them into combat. And that's just the nature
of us as individuals during that timeframe. So for me,
it's it's almost like, all right, you know, after Dusty
begins to repent in his mind and try and get
through this, for the community not to support him fully
at least by providing him with a JAG attorney. Right,
(44:41):
even if the JAG attorney wasn't even he still is
the only one that could be able to articulate that
that concept absolutely in a court of law, because that
I'm sorry, but a seventy year old attorney, no matter
how brilliant they are, cannot surmise that in front of
(45:04):
a jury and give it the credibility that you would
have a JAG officer. Do you guys know where any
of Dusty's senior leadership brought in to give character assessments
of him or any of hismates.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
No, no, his attorney did not call a lot of
character witnesses in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
That's staggering to me. Yeah, all right, let's fast forward
a little bit now, and when was there there? When
did Brown come out and essentially get on the stand
and admit what he had done? What year was that?
Speaker 4 (45:50):
That was in two thousand and eight. That was in
two thousand and eight, But It was in nineteen ninety nine,
two thousand when he told his attorney and mother that
that he lied and that Dusty had nothing to do
with the crime, and his attorney told no one.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
His attorney didn't say a word.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Billy Brown's attorney told nobody. And it wasn't until two
thousand and two. Dusty was out on the reck yard
and a guy who had just transferred there and said, hey,
did you know Billy Brown is telling everybody that that
he lied and that you're innocent? And he was like what,
(46:33):
He goes, yeah, you didn't hear Billy Brown. He's he's
a Christian and he has come out with the full confession.
And so his mother scrambled to get an attorney in
that area, to go get an Affidavid, and it took
six more years to get in court.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
Six more years, six more years, and to get a
writ of actual innocence, which is in Virginia it's sort
of a one and done, one shot deal.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
To rehear your case in front of a panel of
judges and present new and compelling evidence as to why
you're innocent. And so that's what happened. In two thousand
and eight, he had a writ hearing, and it was
(47:37):
the first first time in Virginia history where he was
found to be actually innocent, where someone was found to
be actually innocent without physical evidence. It was based solely
on the confession of Billy Brown on the stand.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
And who was the judge and what was the outcome
of that? Obviously, Dusty's still in cars trated. So what
happened next?
Speaker 4 (48:06):
So when you apply for a rid of actual innocence,
the Court of Appeals puts it on the the the
lower courts, the ones that convicted, it to the circuit
court to do the fact finding. So it was a
Virginia Beach judge. So the same court that convicted him
was a judge that ruled that Dusty that this case
(48:29):
was solely circumstantial, and that he ruled that Billy Brown
was the perpetrator and that Dusty had no role in
the crime itself. And two days after that ruling is
when the Attorney General that's sorry, no, no, I'll take I
(48:50):
got it back up here. The Court of Appeals then
affirmed that court's that court's decision. And once the Court
of Appeals affirmed that decision, the Attorney General spoke up
two days later so at that point he's essentially exonerated.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
He should be going home. But the Attorney genial.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Night that night he should be out of prison.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
Yes, and if you see, if anybody else is going
through the writ process, they go home. But the Attorney
General stepped in and said, now that's not what we
want here. They appealed that decision and said then it
went to the higher court, which is the appellate you
know the appellate courts they call the Court of Appeals
(49:37):
on bank and there was a judge who put forward
a theory which I you know, it's really hard for
us non legal law people to really understand. But didn't
even think it's possible that you can just come up
with a new theory that was never tested against a
jury that you know, essentially Dusty is in prison today.
(50:01):
They have they acknowledged the fact that he hasn't committed
the murder. But because Virginia has a felony murder doctrine,
if you uh, you can be held liable if there's
another if they can prove that another felony occurred, meaning
the abduction, yeap, and that's what why he's being held here.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
That there there was there was no abduction.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
There was no abduction, got in the car willfully with him.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
So they're saying that it is because of deception, that
Dusty deceived her and to get her to come to
the car.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Who is the attorney general that did this? What's his name?
Speaker 4 (50:48):
I can't think it was for his first name. It's
meant now, I would have to look I would have
to look at it.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Martin something, so Martin. As this goes back to the
Attorney general, attorney general goes to the en banc, the
en banc process, the judge comes back with this new
you know sham argument that that he coerced this this
young lady into the into the vehicle. And and have
(51:23):
you talked to Dusty? What was his reaction in that moment?
I mean was did you have you ever have you
ever had that kind of discussion with him where he
opened up about stuff like that for you with you?
Speaker 3 (51:35):
I haven't. I have not had that conversation with him. David.
I'm sure, I'm sure Aaron has. He's the articles. Yeah, well,
certainly when he celebrated when he was filmed actually innocent, right,
but when it was overturned by the way it was
took three more years for it to get overturned by
the Supreme Court three more years, three more years. So
(51:59):
the over it was overtime in two thy and eleven.
And if do I have that right? Aaron was at
twenty ten or eleven?
Speaker 4 (52:09):
Uh. Eight was the eventure evidentiary hearing of nine is
when Court of Appeals affirmed two thousand and.
Speaker 6 (52:19):
Ten.
Speaker 4 (52:20):
Ten ten is when they on bog made their decision,
and then eleven was when the the Supreme Court affirmed.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
The do you have.
Speaker 4 (52:36):
So William Mems was he had a short term in
Virginia at the time. He was filling in for another
who went out for other reasons. And uh, he is
the one that appealed the decision. And then right before
(52:57):
the the court, the Supreme Court of Virginia made their decision,
he was put in a seat there on the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Okay, so he's a current acting.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Not anymore, not anymore. But around the time, around the
time that Dussy was going through this process, he he
he was he was.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
An Attorney general.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
And then while he was while Dusy was going through
this whole process, he was appointed to the Supreme Court
of Virginia.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Do you have the names of those justices that made
that decision.
Speaker 4 (53:36):
Can you get those I could give you, Yeah, I
could get a list of those.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah, region the one that put forward this theory.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Which is I would like all those names, and then
we'll post those on the notes of the show so
people can go and see where this travesty, who's responsible
for this continuing? So I want to I want to
make sure that that's known, and if these people have
moved up into higher office or wherever they're at, I
(54:06):
want them to be accessible to once this starts to
gain some greater steam out there and people get behind Dusty.
So Martin, you you were going to say something, I
cut you off. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Just well, just a little interesting nuance about you know,
the justification for overturning there was one would in the
in the decision, as it was written, that a reasonable
(54:38):
juror could believe that Dusty was trying to deceive Jennifer Evans,
and therefore the deception in and of itself was a felony.
What's interesting, that's a very high bar, right, So you
you could believe is yeah, maybe I could, Maybe I couldn't, right,
(54:59):
That's it's been changed. In fact, I think it changed
in twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen where a reasonable juror
actually would believe, so the bar was raised to a
point where you'd actually have to believe that he was
trying to deceive it. Well, if you look at the
(55:19):
actions that he took that night, where he was showing
his ID, he was open, he was sharing his phone number,
they weren't trying to hide anything. If they were trying
to deceive people, you don't do it by giving you
providing an open book about who you are.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Especially in public setting like a bar in Bobby around
you has some affiliation with the community in some way,
shape or form. Right, the waitresses have dated team guys.
The bar tenders all know every team guy because every
team guy has a favorite bar they go into every
(56:01):
day at every single place, or a Virginia Beach police
officer that was a team guy and knows everybody at
their right or you know, I mean, it's just it's
just asinine. It's asinine. What it sounds like to me
is it sounds like you had the most one of
(56:22):
the most high profile cases in Virginia Beach history and
they got too you know, capital offence, murder, convictions on
these two Navy seals gone rogue, and they prosecuted it.
This fabricated entire case got what they wanted. They all,
as you said, Aaron, they've all benefited from the success
(56:45):
of the case in some capacity and their their ambition, right,
and what it would behoove the State of Virginia, uh,
the Attorney General, whomever is affiliated with these people, because
you have to know, everybody knows each other, right, everybody
knows the das from each county, everybody knows the judges.
(57:09):
The judges all know each other because they all want
to climb the hill and get to that Supreme Court billet. Right,
they all know each other and so to be able to,
you know, get in there and protect this whole thing.
So nobody's made into a mockery of just the the
just blatant disregard for this young man's civic rights. Really,
(57:31):
I think it's a civil rights violation. I mean, that's
that's what I hope ends up coming out. You guys
have a civil rights suit once he gets out of this,
because this is this is an abomination in my in
my opinion for sure. All right, let's just let's pivot
a little bit obviously all of this when when when
(57:55):
the documentary came out, how much attention and did it
get and and you know, how powerful is this for
you guys right now in terms of of awareness and
the name of the documentary for everybody is Navy Seal
Murder framed Target of Opportunity. And you can find that
(58:19):
on Amazon Prime.
Speaker 4 (58:22):
Uh, you know, initially it they had the filmmaker and
some people that were involved, like he was head of Public.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
H I forgot what the name of his title was.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
We're invited public Safety, We're invited to the the opening
of it at a local theater. You know, he's taken
it to a couple I don't even know what you
call them, production companies the pig Yeah, yeah, you know,
(59:03):
for the most part, you know, a lot this is
the thing. A lot of people haven't heard of it.
It's usually they stumble on the documentary randomly, and and
it's it's it's hard, it's hard to find. Honestly. There
are there's a couple other streaming services now that is
showing it, and and that's also it's on peakle.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
I mean, I'm a team guy. This happened during me
I know the story intimately, I didn't even know the
documentary existed until I found you guys went to the
site and then found it. Well yeah, yeah, I didn't
even know it was out there. It's just I couldn't
believe as I'm watching it last night, going how come
I I didn't know? And I, you know, I like
(59:47):
to think I'm pretty aware of the community and what's
going on. I mean, I've interviewed dozens of seals. You know,
my best friend Sean Ryan has the biggest, you know,
one of the biggest podcast in a world. All he
does is interview operate. So I pay attention to the community.
And I've never even seen it or heard about it.
Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Yeah, it really honestly, you know, I feel bad that
it hasn't. I mean, I think Dougley, he did the
the documentary, is happy it's out there.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
It's proof, it's truth that's out there.
Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
And I think that the more people that here, well,
that's that's our hope, is that more people will here
watch it and get involved and demand justice, because that's
that's what we need. We need a movement of people
and and shining more light on this case. And and
(01:00:43):
I it's it's it's time.
Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
It's before before we get there. Can you, guys, just
on an individual level, can you just describe who Dusty
is in your opinion? Can you describe, through the interaction
that you've had with him, through everything, just who you
believe this man is, and just give us, give the
listeners some context. And Martin, would you go first for me?
Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
Yeah? So I've come to know Dusty in five years,
but I feel like I've known him a lifetime because
that's how he makes you feel when you get to
know him. He's a man who is steadfast in what
he believes. I'd like to say I have a buddy
of mine that has a saying. He says he I
(01:01:32):
don't know if he's hard headed, but he's damn sure
convinced of a thing or two. And he's convinced of
his innocence. And I'm convinced of his innocence. I know
Dusty to be a compassionate, caring individual. He speaks to
his mother every day. There's not many guys his age
(01:01:53):
speak to their moms every day. He cares about the
people that he cares about, and he's a mentor to everybody.
I'm also working with somebody here locally but was a
cell mate of his in Bradenton, Florida. The guy was
in and out of prison for twenty five years. He
became a cellmate to Dusty. He was released and he
(01:02:15):
has not been back in prison, and he attributes it
to what he gained from spending time with Dusty. That's
just one example of the impact that he has when
you get to know the individual that he is. And
so the longer I spend in support of who Dusty
(01:02:39):
is and supportive that his circumstance, the more convinced I'm
doing the right thing, not just for him, but for
anybody that comes into contact with him. He's a great
humor being that made a terrible mistake in judgment one evening,
and god knows, I've might a few myself. I wish
(01:03:02):
i'd been. I'm lucky to not have not been in
those circumstances. So Buck, he's uh, he's a guy worth
fighting for, and so we're going to continue to do that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Thank you, Martin. I appreciate that. Aaron.
Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
You know, Dusty I would consider my best friend. He
we went through uh the pandemic together. UH lots of
the family members. He lost his his his father and
his grandmother and I lost my bestest dog that I had. Yeah,
(01:03:42):
and he he has He always seems to say the
right things. The He always seems to have the right
words to say to make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
He has enriched my life. I am you know, anytime
I make, you know, important decisions, he helps me through it.
I am close to his family because of him.
Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
The people around him on the inside, Uh, the correctional
officers and other inmates all respect him.
Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
I think that's something that's really important for people to understand.
In a place that is full of criminals, Dusty sticks out,
but he's respected by everybody in there. And I think,
you know, partly maybe it's because they know he doesn't belong.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
But he he's not showy.
Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
He cares about people that he shares a cell with,
and he cares about.
Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
The people around him, and.
Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
He diffuses a lot of the angst inside.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Currently.
Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
He is a peer mentor and he I mean I
was talking to on the phone just last week and
and there was something was happening. I could hear it,
and it was a correctional officer that was getting a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Probably was saying too much.
Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
And Dusty actually diffused that situation so that the the
CEO was able to calm down, and so was the
the inmate. He is a I just wish that you
know people who you know maybe a little bit on
uh one one side, I really wish that everybody could
(01:05:51):
get a piece and uh to know who he really is.
Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
It's really really.
Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Hard to put it in words to describe he's a
man of of.
Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Uh uh.
Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
He he is very kind. I get a hand written
or a card every birthday, every Mother's Day, and he
does that for his family.
Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
He cares and I, you know, I wish I could
say more.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
No, I think, in the infamous words of Tim McGraw,
he's the kind of friend a friend would want to have.
Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Yeah, he seems like that. Just the the sentiment in
both of your your voices and the way you describe
it as as nothing short of of impactful to say
the least. But it's almost miraculous how he's who he
is has gotten into both of you enough to wanna
(01:07:01):
to take a significant portion out of your own lives
in order to help him restore his in some context
or capacity. Hopefully is freedom here. So what what can
people do? What? What how can uh my listeners get
out there and what can they do to support Dusty
in this quest?
Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
And you guys well certainly follow follow us on a
social media We're on x We're on Instagram and on TikTok.
We have a petition out there on change dot org.
You can get to it by going to the website
which is free Dusty dot com. And we also have
(01:07:42):
links on all of the social media's social social media
channels as well. And what are the handles for those
it is, uh, Navy Seal left behind or at free Dusty.
Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Turner, Okay, Navy Seal left behind or at free Dusty
Turner or just free Dusty.
Speaker 6 (01:08:01):
At free Dusty Turner Okay, where and then uh if
they and the the petition is on the website free
Dusty dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Correct, yes, correct, Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
It links it links to it's a change dot or
kind of links directly to it.
Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
And I definitely want to put out there. Please do
not get and Dusty is very concerned about this. Please
do not get caught in the trap and donating money
through through them. Uh it does not go to Dusty's
cause at all. And we probably should set something up
(01:08:40):
for for Dusty.
Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
And absolutely, you guys should definitely set up a give
Send Go fund for sure, stay away from whatever. The
other one was that they don't pay out if they
don't believe in your your politics. U. Yeah, yeah, so
give send Go I found for for like, this is
a little bit better, but you know, definitely investigate those. Yeah,
(01:09:04):
get that up as soon as possible and and you know,
probably get that up, you know, before this thing airs
for sure, so we can we can drive people to
support the legal funds because the legal funds are are
are just astronomical. I can't even imagine so far what
is his his poor family has had to spend on
on his legal defenses. I have several friends that you know,
(01:09:28):
it's broken them because of whether it was child custody,
uh stuff which always seems to go the wrong way
for team guys, it seems. But in other you know,
criminal cases too, and you know, uh, And that's why
I'm gonna definitely reach out to Eddie Gallagher and in
his he's got a nonprofit called the Pipe Hitters Foundation,
(01:09:52):
and yeah, so I'm gonna reach I'm gonna call Eddie
as soon as we get off the call. Here we've
been talking already. I'm trying to get him on the show,
but I'll reach out to them and and we'll just
draw more attention to this.
Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
And I think, David, sorry to cut short, just just
just a quick follow up. We just need it. We
need people laser focused on his case. We need people
that care about justice to listen to Dusty's story, and
(01:10:26):
then we need them to help join a movement to
draw attention to it. Uh So it's the petition certainly
is one one avenue, but we need people to be
familiar with it. We want people convicted about how they
feel about his case to come forward and support support
what needs to be done here.
Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Absolutely absolutely, well, thank you both. Obviously you know Dusty
I bet is overwhelmed by your support. I certainly I am.
You know what you what you've done here is uh
(01:11:06):
and what you're doing is remarkable. I commend both of you.
It's it's honorable, and I just hope we can generate
enough of that, like you said, that tipping point of
of support, and we can have some justice filled for
for Dusty here soon. So thank you all so much
(01:11:27):
for coming on uh and and I look forward to
the next opportunity that we can have the next talk.
So God bless you guys, Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:11:37):
One other thing if I can, absolutely, So, currently Dusty
is up for parole and his only out is either
through clemency or parole or getting back into court if
we have new evidence.
Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
And so what about can you get a clemency? Is
his pardon? It's essentially a pardon, and you know that.
Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Can be the President of the United States or the governor.
Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
No, so it's not a federal case like said, it's
only it's a Commonwealth.
Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Of Virginia case. So only the governor can pardon.
Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
So if we have once we have an active petition
for a pardon or clemency, and the key is going
to be the governor of Virginia, which is Glenn Youngkin.
So anybody has connections with Glenn Youngkin?
Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Did you hear that? Everybody? If you know somebody or
you know somebody in Glenn Younkin's atmosphere or somebody that
can get to him, don't hesitate. Immediately get in contact,
drive them to first to free Dusty dot com, or
if you want, send him the documentary. That's always a
(01:12:47):
compelling thing because I think the way JD laid out
all that evidence is really that was the thing for me,
that was just pushed me over the edge for sure.
So all right, is any thing else? Aaron Martin, No,
thank you, We appreciate it. You're welcome. God bless you
guys and your efforts, and God bless Dusty if you
(01:13:09):
talk to him for us. Thank you, to you, thank you.
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